Destiny 2: Datto's Thoughts on King's Fall (Normal/Contest/Challenge)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
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King's Fall is back in Destiny and man does it feel really good. Today, I just want to talk about the raid, the day 1 experience as a whole and an issue that I think continues to bother me when it comes to the day 1 raid experience.
The First Descendant - 0:00
Reviewing the Raid - 1:11
The Day 1 Experience - 11:21
The Continued Problem - 17:10
Challenge Modes - 20:19
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My opinion is here
Yeah! Only took like, a week 🙄
W
No need to formulate your own opinion when uncle father Datto comes to the rescue
I disagree
No it’s not
This version of kings fall might be my new favorite raid. Last wish has always been my favorite, but I haven’t had this much fun doing a raid in a long time. All the encounters are great and the weapons are 100% worth chasing. Props to bungie for bringing back this raid better than ever!
I'm happy with literally every change made to this raid in this game. I loved it in D1 and I love it even more in D2. Every encounter is way more engaging and there's not a single one I dread playing like with most other raids in this game. Agreed on the weapons as well, this is the first raid ever where I'm chasing a good roll on all of them. They all have something unique going for them and pretty much all have fantastic perk pools.
Weapons are insane
My team are all getting together this Tuesday to do it for the first time (life unfortunately getting in the way) and I’m stoked. I have put 1000s of hours into D2 but never played D1 and can’t wait to experience such a seminal part of the franchise.
@@ericconrad8854 Good luck today! It’s my favorite raid of all time. It was in D1, and still is in D2. I’m so happy to have it back.
I'm just waiting for a damage and health buff alongside perk changes for Last Wish and it'll be back to goated status again
If Warpriest would stop dodging, it would’ve been less of an issue 😐 even with the optimized DPS positions, challenge mode was just too painful when he would move away
He is dodging lasting grenades and witherhoards.
My man had pre nerfed Radiant Dance Machines with how much fucking moving he was doing.
I jumped on the stage to do damage and it worked pretty well
@@yeru9932 Our team was using neither, his behavior is just completely random depending on where you are.
@@MrTJCM6 If he swapped those out for the Bones of Eao, it'd be over. Ain't nobody catching him lol.
After the original Hard Mode for Kings Fall launched back in D1, you uploaded a video talking about it with slayerage, and one of you mentioned that a potential way to get rid of the 1-orb strat could be to link unused orbs with the tablet of ruin. It was pretty cool to see it implemented in D2.
Woooo nice research. Think I vaguely remember that.
I genuinely love King's Fall. It's my favorite raid in Destiny history and I really love playing it. I haven't raided since VoG came out and I'm now raiding again with LFG teams. VoG felt nice to have back but I thought repeat runs felt boring and not really interesting just mindless really but doing KF keeps me engaged and I look forward to it.
yh vog is way to easy too imo
I just cant muster the excitement to re-earn yet another thing i already had ive just hit my limit i think idk
All the raids in the franchise and KF is your favorite? Interesting
Wrath is my favorite but KF is somehow better than ever
Right around 3000 teams finished challenge mode. My group finished it in position 2897......Slipped RIGHT in there at the end. 23:37:00 was our total time but it was my first day1 clear ever. Loved the whole experience outside of Warpriest (if you know you know). Cant wait to breach the triple digit finish next time!
nice!
Barely dodged a 2402
Lol I finished at 23:15:00. We were stuck at Oryx challenge for 6 hours because everyone had been up since a few hours before the raid launched. First Day 1 clear too :)
Definitely by Oryx we were splintering but we pulled together just in time to finish it off. War Priest was brutal but Oryx definitely took more time than we expected. Based on previous results we had at most one more run before the end of the 24hrs. Until another day1 I'm not taking off this emblem. Too much sweat and sanity into it.
@@DattoDoesDestiny hold this ratio for me real quick
13:20 I had this exact issue with Caretaker back in Vow as well - my team could consistently stay alive and do tons of damage, but the thing that caused us to fall apart was literal ammo rng... which felt really, really awful. Its actually the #1 reason why I didn't even bother to run King's Fall challenge mode.
Cough *aeons*
@@joeyno137 you can say that about warpriest but you couldn't say that about caretaker, the only orange bars I'm aware of were in the symbol room, so you'd die if you seriously attempted to kill them, leaving you entirely at the mercy of ammo rng
@@placidflunky6642 true only in masters u can make ammo
Switching to outbreak perfected when you ran out of Izanagi shots was the play on Caretaker, that’s how my team got it during contest
@@deadbang3r outbreak carried my team as well. We used izi rockets for the first 2 floors, then swapped to outbreak to farm ammo and dps on 3rd floor so we had heavy and some left over special for final stand
Honestly I love how solid the raid is as a whole coming from D1. But the changes they made feel pretty solid as well. For example the changes made to totems really just feel like what the encounter was supposed to be.
Thank God you posted. I was wondering how I should feel about this raid. You showed me how to feel. Thank you
Yeah, the heavy ammo situation is quite interesting. For our team, we needed to force a 4-phase on oryx on challenge mode due to not having enough heavy ammo to clear the final stand. Bosses either need to have less health (not sure about this one) or we need to be able to Aeon finish enemies in every encounter for heavy. Otherwise, it just kind of becomes an RNG fest whether or not you get ammo or not. I actually didn't mind Warpriest too much, but the challenge was a little frustrating. There were times where I would grab the orb at 4 or 3 seconds, and we would still get "challenge failed", and wiped. Otherwise, I really really enjoyed this day one experience.
Yeah ammo rng, especially on oryx is a pain. Not being able to finish the ogres and knights is very annoying and should definitely be fixed.
@@ryderfurpaw4201 easy fix when youre using exotic primaries (like outbreak) with double heavy ammo finder mods.
Don't normally reply but I think you guys misunderstood the warpriest challenge. It wasn't to grab it at 5 seconds remaining on buff, it was to grab the buff within 5 seconds of killing the knight. We had the same issue before we figured it out.
Heavy finisher for half a super would be nice as a general class item mod instead of it being a seasonal thing
I ended up having to double linear fusion ammo finder just to have any ammo come second damage phase
The timing sync of the Crimson shots to what Datto is saying at 18:38 is unintentionally amazing.
Personally, I love the new revamped kings fall compared to it's original D1 version. Can't wait for Touch of Malice to drop hopefully this season so I can use it for nightfalls.
@@ADUSN Lol. Love the analogy. I've never had a raid exotic take more than 41 clears (1k voices) to get. The scourge sparrow took 81 clears oddly enough though lol. Best of luck to your rng bud ❤
Bruh, this week I sherpa'd two guys from my clan and both of them got it on their first run, Im 10 runs in and no luck yet lmao
@@outbreak3607 Yeah that sounds about right lol. Me and my friends ran with some lfgs earlier this week and back to back raids they got Touch of Malice 😭
@@outbreak3607 how are you 10 runs in if you can only do 3 per character per week?
@@nattyisaiahlifts right? we are only in week 2 right now, what a statement
I felt the same about the Warpriest damage check, but didn’t know how to describe it until Datto did. Tried it with LFG and it was just unwinnable because not everyone had a god roll linear w/ font of might. We could do everything else perfectly but having damage be the issue with no way to improve it was so disheartening.
You don't need fom you need a good linear
Bungie literally handed a craftable god roll LFR with the best perks in the game to everyone at season launch, just had to do a short quest lol
@@tyrant7244 they didn't announce it and they didn't give a marker, I didn't know about it until the day before. I don't go to the crafter unless I'm crafting a new gun so yeah they did but they hid it
+ Absurd flinch + Warpriest doing a dance routine = Terrible Contest experience. F you Warpriest
@@BlargTheEnderman so many TH-camrs have made videos about it
I would love to see a podcast style video(s) where you and other top end raiders get together and design a raid from the ground up, bosses, puzzles, etc. Go over the challenges and one off challenges for each encounter.
Gay
designing a raid? you know that being a good pve player and a good pve designer are two completely different things, right?
@@YuriG03042 he just wants to hear what the top pve players would do if they were asked to design a raid almost from 0, he doesn't want to see them create a full fleshed out activity with unique concepts, locations, ecc.
Considering all the problems that Datto bringed up with raiding in general in the video, I think it would be interesting to know how he would design a raid that consider/fixes most of these problems, and it would be cool to hear the reasoning behind his decisions.
As someone who's raided in other mmos I always thought balancing damage in destiny was an interesting problem, people don't have rotations and the ammo system is completely one of a kind for a raid setting. I hope that things don't reach a breaking point with the current set up but if they do it would be interesting to see how a rework might function.
Imagine calling destiny an mmo 💀
@@tomwhite7022 i mean it is
warframe is also an MMO
MMO just means mass multiplayer online
@@marxismleninismkanyeism6440 Ain't nothing massive about it though. And I'd love a mode involving tons of players.
Maybe we should have some sort of rotation. Like more bait and switches or something.
@@bannedmann4469 massive really just means the server count and how many possible players you can be with in a que fashion
encounters that make EVERYONE do stuff will always be my favorite. as someone who enjoyed teaching leviathan, scourge and last wish i can tell you my biggest pet peeve was when someone would be like "yeah forget the explanation just put me on ads"
I think there's a time and a place for it.
Spire was good and I enjoyed the final boss fight, but there is definitely an aspect of "everyone has to be a quarterback" to its design. Everyone needing to be "on-point A-game" can make the encounter not fun when someone is starting to falter because its late or the raid has been going on for too long.
Conversely, its easy for 2-3 people to get fully carried through a lot of VoG because the mechanics don't break down if the other 3-4 people know what they're doing.
I think a lot of the encounters in revamped KF do a really good job at being flexible enough that if one person is having a rough time, they can be given basic things to do and largely focus on either not dying or doing DPS at the proper time.
On note of Heavy ammo; I really wish Bungie would do what Division 2 does with power ammo for the specialist weapons. For the people who didn't play Division 2, you have a meter where it fills when you kill and when you fill it up it guarantees you power ammo. I wish D2 did this so bad. Heavy RNG is ridiculously unfun to play around.
it technically does, you are guaranteed a heavy brick after a certain number of enemies defeated. a progress bar would be nice though
@@lightningstar-ng9tm Do we know what the nubmer of kills is? Is it per person or is the number shared across the team?
There's not an exact number is just a threshold that after a certain number of kills the chances for Heavy to drop are super high, is not like you kill 20 and the 20 is a guarantee drop
@@Ms666slayer yeah but everyone uses basicalyl the same amount of heavy during a dps phase unless they are Div. But not everyone gets the same amount of kills. which si why im wondering if its based on "amount of team kills" or "amount of personal kills"
@@arkura1812 Exactly what I wanted to say. If it is amount of kills per person it is a terrible system.
Solar 3.0 and 10 resil carried HARD. My team definitely wouldn’t have made it on contest as far as we did if not for solar titan. The only times I was dying was due to me being dumb with insta kill debuffs. Phoenix Cradel went STUPIDLY OP. Give all my teammates damage, boosted ability regen, AND healing?
My team was able to do Day 1 normal, but we got stonewalled hard at the Warpriest challenge from the combination of needing to juggle the challenge, dealing enough DPS without failing the challenge, and then sometimes the challenge would just fail even though it felt like we did everything correctly (Stealing the Aura buff within 5 seconds of picking up the brand.) where we'd grab the brand and steal the Aura but then 2 seconds later it'd still pop challenge failed after we already made the swap.
It was further disheartening where we had a couple of attempts that would've succeeded if nothing went wrong, and we knew just looking at the challenges that once we got past Warpriest we would've been able to do the rest of the encounter challenges after a couple of runs each no problem.
It's that annoying in between level where we knew we're capable of completing the Day 1 challenge, but we didn't quite have a strategy figured out within that first 24 hours that gave us consistent results. (Which I get is part of the challenge.)
Literally the same for us.
we also had this bug. it also said revive not available to swap the aura buff. (No one was dead. Bungo being Bungo). We killed him almost twice but died to the bugs at the end. after 6 hours we had enough of the bugs and rng and gave up. Shitty challenge
my team pretty much subverted the requirement for aeons by using double special loadouts. it is insane how much more ammo you get compared to using a primary weapon, ammo was never an issue during bosses.
Maybe having it so that orange and yellow bar enemies have substantially higher chances to spawn heavy, that way the rng doesn’t feel so bad and it also makes aeons optimal for heavy but doesn’t make them feel mandatory for level capped stuff
See when d2 came out they made orange bars for the sole purpose of dropping heavy on kills so everyone would have ammo when needed now they are just a thorn in my ghost
Even then aeons shouldn’t be a requirement
The new and revamped King's Fall is by far my current favorite raid, I love all of the changes to the mechanics and to the loot. All of that felt great. However, the Day One experience needs to be looked at in its totality. The combat felt ridiculously easy and my team isn't a top 5% pve team, it was just easy with solar on all three classes; huge testament to our power creep and why abilities need a tuning. The biggest issue though, was the absolutely obscene damage requirement for Warpriest. My team had the combat and mechanics nailed after 2.5-3hrs; it took another TEN HOURS to get the perfect run where we had enough ammo drop (both randomly and aeons x2) with Warpreist not sprinting or randomly wiping us early, because that's a bug. This fight was way over tuned and fights like it need to be tuned with this in mind in the future. It sucks to repeatedly fail an encounter simply because ammo refused to drop run after run.
I loved watching your day one stream! God it was exciting to see you lead for a while hopes for next time!
Finally was able to do it all in one run. 🙌🏾 it was such an enjoyable time.
I feel like the issue with damage requirements is related to damage being shifted away from being done with specials and supers and towards being done with heavys. I understand the need for power weapons to feel powerful, but damage being done with linears and solely linears for bosses creates an environment where the boss fights need to be balanced around them. The issue doesn't just stem from DPS (a rapid fire sniper with triple tap can hit around 80% as much DPS as a precision linear) but from total damage as well, a cataclysmic with 4th times can deal almost EIGHT times as much total damage as a rapid fire sniper.
I agree. Also pretty much any super that isn’t specifically MEANT for damage feels like a reduction in damage output compared to just using your heavy
@@5wiftNinja387 even the ones that are meant for dps are pretty bad now. Just not worth using over heavy dps
I just think that survivability should be the biggest concern here, not the DPS. Like, I passed nearly 14h on the Warpriest because we couldn't just spite that last bit of damage on him, but we never died because of enemies
Yes! It's so annoying when I have the skill to survive in a day one raid but I don't have enough dps to pass it...
When enemies spawn out of the same doors in the same way at warpriest they're gonna get spawncamped really easily. Part of it is how powerful we are, but also the enemies come into the arena in a way that makes them incredibly easy to kill. If you had enemies spawn towards the end of the damage phase where players aren't all spread out camping the doors and are behind totems on a side, they may be a little more threatening. I think Bungie has to be a bit smarter about the actual placement of enemy spawns to make these combat encounters more difficult. Yknow how the enemies will spawn away from the orbs at Golgoroth and run into the arena to charge the damage team? More stuff like that please, force the players into doing some sort of mechanic involving movement around the arena which means they don't just get to sit at spawn doors and camp with a grenade.
I think in this regard, they might've been limited by D1 and thinking about how pure to keep the mechanics, spawn doors, and add compositions. I do agree that more doors with better splits of the enemies in warpriest and golg would definitely improve the fight. Some add doors or taken teleports on the spawn side of golg, bigger add packs for the doors on right side and left in warpriest when they come in from behind.
@@sauceinmyface9302 we’ll see in master Kings fall
@@Arctis326 No, we probably won't.
The thing that scares me about this "combat experience" conversation is that we've been here before. I'm sure Datto and many others remember Season of the Drifter and Reckoning. Ya know, that combat challenge where Bungie decided that we had become so invincible that the only way they could threaten us was by pushing us off bridges and killing us with wonky physics.
I really don't want to go back to that. I don't want to see us become so powerful that the only way enemies can threaten us is with cheesy instakills.
That was due to the game being built on double primary. Probably still is the problem now. So that the new fun abilities just wipe the old combat challenge. Probably need a new game to be honest
So you mean Duality Solo Flawless challenge? Because that's the only thing that's stopping me. Just dumb deaths to dumb Architect based shoving mostly by incinerators. Oh and the stupid long jump after the first encounter. Loreley just is way, way too strong for survival.
@@jackrountree5232 why do you say these things so it can be nerfed!?
@@thrilla72 because honestly, it needs it. If the choice is a loreley nerf or reckoning 2.0 I'm gonna take the nerf any day
My point on day 1 raids still stands. Having to both do regular and challenge mode in 1 day is just not appetizing. I get that once you complete a raid it should become slightly easier but after 10 hours of of a raid most team members want to just leave. This is from a console players pov btw. We dont have much when it comes to tech. But i do agree having 10 res and solae really does make the under 20 power level feel like 5 under
I actually love going back in a second time for the challenges, my fav part of the whole experience. You've already figured out the puzzle, now you get to master it with an added layer.
seems theyre only doing this with the remastered raids, just due to everyone knowing the basic mechanics, just need to work out the alterations and challenges. doesnt seem like theyre doing it with new raid where noone knows what theyre doing.
What do you mean by tech?
@@omensoffate hot swapping to its most perfected and consistent state, backwards hunter dodging,
Macros, being able to aim with your entire hand and being able to quickly change directions
PC player here. My group got burned by this on VoG Day 1 so we didnt even bother attempting it. We beat DSC Day 1 too. 2 clears is just too much, flat out.
I fully agree, every facet of the game is becoming easier and easier to the point where I don't even have to care much in GRANDMASTERS. People keep getting upset when we get brought down in power or things get harder but how can they not see that it's unhealthy for everything to be so much easier than what it used to be.
That outlaw headstone role is the one I have and it slaps
Hey, I'm proud of you guys too. Was an excellent showing. :D
To add to solar and resistance being kinda broken. In normal mode if someone in my team happens to die next to Golgoroth I have no issue going down and just face-tanking his slam to get the revive, without max resil
Extremely good video. I pretty much agree with everything said, especially regarding combat difficulty and challenges.
👀
just did my first completion right before this and it was really fun. very enjoyable experience
loved the megatoad mention
didn’t get collective obligation after 70 smt runs, and already know it’s gonna be a long journey again
Isn't there a built in solution to the ammo economy be to utilize double special or use exotic primary + ammo finders and some sort of generator of ability regen to supplement trash clearing capabilities? Both would have the same end result of heavy ammo drops to be more plentiful.
For the the double special, that would lean more heavily into ability regen and for the exotic primary + ammo finders, we have legendaries in this game that are just as capable as exotics to push the damage necessary. The built in damage increase to minor mobs from primary exotics helps offset the health of enemies.
That's how members of our team (including myself) approached the encounters and it helped ensure we weren't nearly as dry otherwise. Then that would allow for focus on mechanic execution and consistency.
Thank you for the video!
The double special spawning more heavy was actually confirmed to be a bug and has either already been patched, or confirmed to be patched in an upcoming update.
A fellow exotic primary in pve enjoyer
@@tyrant7244 It was fixed as of August 23rd in update 6.2.0. Thus I do believe this is still an intended mechanic since that helped our team do contest mode. I'd highly recommend trying it (riptide fusion with lead from gold + chill clip is great for mob clear) and see how frequent heavy ammo drops even post 6.2.0 😀
@@kapthas59 Yes, especially after Bungie began introducing legendary heavies that can dish out respectable damage and the exotic primary interaction with ammo finder spawn rates! Bungie may have their faults, but they are deliberate when introducing changes and forsee players capitalizing on those interactions, integrating it into their loadouts.
Finally got my completion last night. This raid is very satisfying to play with a group still figuring out the changes.
My day 1 raid team has done attempted every raid since last wish, but kings fall was our first ever day 1 clear. we didn't even have much lorely as we needed to optimize for damage with aeon but warpriest was still a nightmare. Of the 19.5 hours it took us to do both runs, 10 hours were spent banging out heads against the wall at warpriest. definitely a great day 1 for our team and I'm looking forward to the next. Totems, golgoroth and sisters took us 5 tries max on the first run
Overall I loved this raid, but the only thing that is bothering me in day one raids since Caretaker is the extremely strict damage required, my team used 2 aeons and dedicated our heavies exclusively for damage with specials as backup and it still wasn't enough damage to beat warprieat because we just hadn't enough ammo at the end of the fourth phase
It's terrible, I'm convinced my team could have done it if Warpriest wasn't so absurd
I completely adore KF. Every part of it. KF had the best story in D1 and the raid was the cherry on top. The only bad thing about it was that the OG raid weapons were mostly meh with the auto rifle being practically unusable. It’s nice that they made positive changes to this.
@@ADUSN Unfortunately the auto would've been mid anyway because who the fuck is using Auto rifles in D2 at this point in time
Datto your beard in the intro looks FIRE my guy 😭❤️
Our team started late for a day 1 because we weren't too keen on doing it, and the warpriest fight was also where we stopped, the aeon finishers wouldn't even work on the wizards. We got to 1 hp probably 4 times but didn't have any more ammo.
If they want to reign in solar 3.0 a bit more, I think an interesting way is introducing more Stasis enemies (Stasis slow and freeze turn off restoration right now) or other ways of "Antiheal" through darkness abilities. Would be a cool way to watch out for certain enemies.
I feel like that would also nerf recovery, which isn’t really needed
Babe wake up new Datto's Thoughts dropped
Going back to KF was refreshing, I struggle a bit with VotD's mechanics but KF was a breeze and I can easily execute and explain its mechanics.
Not to mention the quality of the origin perks and the guns from the loot pool!
Feels good to be back
I really hope Bungie does away with ammo check encounters for day 1’s. I’m chill with dps checks, but the amount of health that warpriest has and the little amount of enemies spawning is so annoying. Wish they’d put in more challenging combat pre damage phases or spire of stars level mechanics, although we all know how that would go down with the majority of the community
this has nothing to do with kings fall but i wanted to state my opinon. I dont think solar being the "healing" class works by that i mean that honsetly every class needs healing so things like arc warlock are just not that great since the only healing is form the rift was is not something you can relay on. Idk i think healing is just somethings that has to be a thing now in destiny.
Regarding combat challenge, it's almost as if giving out a free 40% DR at base was an insane and unneeded buff. Go back down to 20 resil and everything instantly becomes harder. I'm all for buffing resilience from what used to be a throwaway stat, but I'm not sure who at Bungie thought 40% was a reasonable number; 20% would have been more than enough.
Imo for the most part this is my favorite d2 raid. I went in with nostalgic glasses on but I truly felt like this was an overall improvement from the original. VOG didn't change enough for it to feel up to the d2 standards. But for most people having the best d1 raid back in our hands and mostly positive improvements makes me happy.
Easily one of the best raids in the game.
I was never able to complete kings fall back on the 360 cause bad compression on comms and always losing people over mechanics. I was actually finally able to kill the tyrant this time around on day 2. it was a beautiful day. I enjoyed the raid with the new mechanics. daughters and oryx seems easier. but I loved it
There’s also the fact of checkpoint sharing that adds to the completion rate. Warpriest skips were rampant
The changes to resilience have a huge factor with how many teams cleared this, 40% DR is so broken
I still think that there should be an emblem for completing just contest mode. Just being able to show off that you completed the contest version would be a nice thing to have. Having to run the raid 2x makes doing day 1 much more harder than with a new raid where you only have to run it once.
Swear to god man. We got all the way to oryx challenge mode with 2 hours left and just couldn’t complete it. Everyone was so tired after being awake for 34+ hours and just couldn’t remember all knights and ogres killed. The 24 hours time strict for D1 raids makes no sense at all, specifically when the raid releases at friday when most people have to work.
Me and my team finished 159th, which is the best finish i've gotten on a day 1 race. KF was the by far the D1 raid that i played the least and it was really cool to be able to form new memories with it. As much as I wanted Wrath to come back I understand why Bungie choose KF. Overall, I think they did a great job with modernizing it, but man some of those challenges are awful.
My favorite raid was Wrath of the Machine. Loved the raid design, puzzle for outbreak prime, and the final boss fight was so cool.
For the Ammo economy my team found success using double special. It seems that heavy Ammo spawns way more frequent than if you used a primary weapon
I think the power problem is specifically Sunbreaker/Lorelei, not Solar 3.0.
Dawnblade can be really good, as well as Gunslinger, they both have great potential, amazing destructive power. But neither of them have the borderline immortality you can have with Sunbreaker. And I say Sunbreaker and not Lorelei because I don't run Lorelei, I run Phoenix Cradle, Sun Warrior for the team, and you can still survive basically anything as long as you have your mini hammer. Lorelei is a problem, but it just makes the problem worse, it isn't the root of it.
Both Arcstrider and Voidwalker also have a good amount of health regen and survivability, those two and Sunbreaker are the best 3.0 subclasses in my opinion because of that. Which reads very nicely because it's one for each class, and they are all different elements.
But the difference is, Arcstrider and Voidwalker...yes, they have the same destructive potential that Sunbreaker has, Arcstrider combos and damage while up close is insane, Volatile rounds and grenade power for Voidwalker are very easy to proc as well.
The difference is, the survivability of those subclasses is reliant on kills. You need to kill with your Combination Blow to keep the health regen and invisibility if you run Assasin's Cowl, you need to get kills with Devour active to get health back.
Sunbreaker doesn't need to kill, you get health regen by hitting your mini hammer, and with Lorelei, you don't even need to do that.
Dawnblade carried this raid day 1 lol. Solar titan is very strong but without Dawnblade it falls apart
@@davidv5584 The only thing I'd say is that strong about Dawnblade is Well, you need a Well for damage phases
Which is a problem imo, but it doesn't trivialize things like Sunbreaker does.
15:01 it feels like the solution is ammo synths tbh. make it a long cooldown, but have it be a guaranteed source of, say, 50% of your ammo pool. there would need to be a better ui for it, natural ammo drop rates would need to be rebalanced around it, and you might need to change some boss health pools, but imo it's worth it. joe blackburn keeps saying he wants destiny to be an mmo, and since strategically popping consumables mid-encounter is a big part of mmo resource management, it seems like a no brainer to reintroduce them
Datto, have you tested prospector since it got enabled again? Wondering if its gonna be worth running even after the fix
Right now I think that both heavy and special ammo drop in waves which I never really understood why. It would make more sense to me for ammo to drop more consistently instead of periods of drought and surplus.
I've done day one raiding for the past 3 raids, and my feedback is pretty simple. Increase the combat challenge of the moment to moment gameplay, and reduce the absurd DPS check requirements for some bosses. Ads are a joke with stasis/solar builds while enrage comes way too fast. It's really dumb that the hang up for most raid groups isn't their technical skill at the game, but their weapon setup and ammo drops. I remember doing templar day 1 and we couldn't do it because we didn't have anarchy. I log on later with a group that had anarchy and we killed him in a few attempts. It's really punishing for players who don't have as much time to get everything or just came back from a break to get screwed out of a day 1 clear because they didn't have a specific gun from a specific season. Even just a 5% health reduction to Warpriest would have given a bit more room. And before ppl tell me to git gud or some shit, my raid team had the damage to kill Warpriest and the only reason we didn't clear him is because our buff holder (which unfortunately was me) got stomped and didn't swing fast enough to get back to him (we were using the Lament strat). We have a clip on gamedvr of the boss being left with a sliver of health after our last few lament combos hit immunes. I'll never live that moment down.
I completely agree with this as it was my fireteam's exact experience. The moment to moment combat felt ridiculously easy while the dps checks have been ludicrously tight. It should be the other way around, especially day one. Reward players for learning and mastering the mechanic, don't punish them for not having 6 people who no-life Destiny with perfectly min-maxed setups. We need a renewed focus on technical skill.
10:20 Yeah, I wanted him to start using various weapons of darkness at his disposal to try to fight back - to no avail. Or just look like he's in pain, like you have suggested.
This was the first day one I’ve completed!
Wish they did the raid on Saturday but I understand why they didn't. Missed out on 7 hours of the day one due to University classes starting that day. Got the DsC, VoG, and VoD day 1 emblems but missed out on this one. Congrats to everyone else that got though :D
really like this raid but day one felt WAY too easy with max resil giving free protective light at all times and solar making it harder to die than live
Power creep, especially with solar 3.0 is really really severe. I due hope they dial it back as it makes some content far easier than I believe it should be. As a titan main, the healing is simply too good and restoration buffs need to be nerfed drastically.
@@ryderfurpaw4201 Either that or tune RAD content and high level nightfalls to compensate, because ever since WQ the combat experience has been continously spat on. The game in general has always been easy but in the past year we've been reaching tremendous levels of braindead easy.
You say too easy on day 1 but a majority of people got absolutely walled by just regular Totems lmao.
@@ryderfurpaw4201 It’s been power crept since stasis in many ways.
The solar (especially Lorely) making you basically invincible just seems like it was a drastic creep.
Before you could freeze everything where it be turrets and a tracking super then shatter every hint… instant double melee and a long lasting tornado… freezing javelins and spamming and smashing pillars of ice.
Then you could spam vortex grenades AND heal… make yourself and your team permanently invisible (which also blinds enemies if you do it close to them)… or mindless spam abilities with HoIL…
Then in solar you have some good CC and a fringe build or two per class but now that Classy Restoration is gone Lorely Titan is the obvious stick out.
Each of those in their own ways have made very end game (contest/master level content) trivial… meaning anything below that is feel like tutorials.
@@slicemup9 Most players can't dunk an orb at a big white diamond objective marker with a button prompt in this game... Not trying to be rude or anything, but that really doesn't say much
I get what you're saying about combat being too easy, as I feel that too. But I definitely know people (who have thousands of hours in the game) who still die to adds post contest mode in Warpriest. Just saying.
Yup, half my crew are why I'll never get a day one emblem. Also; Datto isn't self aware playing on the easiest mode. He'd be middling at best if he came back to console.
I think they should have a heavy ammo drop modifier on finishers.
Once we got all the 3.0s I hoped they would focus in depth of the enemies in general and throughout raids.
Between the 40% Resil and all the 3.0s with healing, overshield, invis, etc makes endgame pretty trivialized at times.
When the biggest issue for encounters tends to be “I’m out of ammo” and not us dying/having to be slow and smart to prevent dying.. it hinders the fun factor.
Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to just say “well don’t try hard and use your OP builds. You’ll have more fun” and it’s just not the solution to balancing our power. :/
It was refreshing not to learn 10000 new symbols to do the raid.
A big part of the % of day one finishes might be due to the raid boss encounter not glitching out and staying crouched and immune or kicking teams to orbit till they quit for the night rather than it being ‘easier’, that also might be a decent % of the decreased day one attempt pool bc that frustration is not worth it
My team was making heavy bricks with aeon’s at warpriest and we had 2 blade barrages with star eaters. We almost 3 phased warpriest on challlenge mode
Oryx was a test of ammo conservation, you had to be smart with how you used your heavy, it wasn’t a dps check it was a recourse management check.
Warpriest threw 4 aeonable enemies at you per round this meant it had to be a damage check.
2 different challenges both of them should be in a raid. There shouldn’t be a strat to cover all encounters
I never had a group to play this in D1 and it looks like i wont have a group still so many years later. Still fun seeing you all do it
edit: yes i know LFG is a thing, i have social anxiety so ive never been able to use it
lfg has existed for years
I dont have a lot of friends to play with but if you can get 3 other people the raid is not bad when it comes to 4 manning it
Just lfg my friend
@@gunkid6368 as has my social anxiety. If if i could I would
@@papapanders488 yea I dont really like talking to anyone outside my friend group idk cause i would lfg every week in d1
I think the higher clears of Kingsfall over Vault or Vow is more about it being a more beloved raid, but also could be a difference in population at different moments.
Until contest mode i had never done golgy legit, always did 1 orb in D1. However, when doing on day 1, I finally realized why you praised 6 orb golgy so much, it is a wonderful fight with beautiful design. Definitely one of my favorite fights now
Bungie just needs to rebalance damage checks like this. Having an encounter require top damage and having a mechanic where 2 people doing damage have to leave to do the mechanic is awful
I actually think having ppl required to leave during dmg is a great way to really check your dmg and see if you can cut it.
In general having the biggest challenge of a raid being a dps check, is a bad thing imo, especially because in Destiny there really isn't much room for skill expression with dps, especially not in a raid like kingsfall where the best options for dps are quite limited.
@Ya Mum I didn’t participate in contest, that might be why we see it differently, but on normal, I like that it makes dps a little more dynamic. I also think that I was designed to not have 6 ppl constantly pumping damage, bc even with two ppl leaving in and out, a two phase on normal is pretty easy for me, that’s just my experience though m.
@@cerulean5032 I also agree with that, but I usually don’t mind one encounter just needing you to fucking P U M P out the damage, I find it pretty fun to just hit massive numbers and chunk a big boss down, but it shouldn’t be every encounter.
@@matthewjobin6665 oh yeah it can be very cathartic to just unload massive numbers, but it's kinda sad when it's the hardest thing about a day one raid race.
I feel like KF is OK now, the fixed the wrongs, kept the goods.
Even if it isn’t the best in D2, it is good now!
(Whenerver they bring Wrath back, it really is going to be best raid in franchise)
not even lol. Vow, last wish and kings fall are all better then wrath. Wrath also has the worst loot design wise outta those 4 raids as well.
@@JungKooksTwin my man is smoking crack if that’s his opinion. Wrath had some of the only weapons in D1 that felt genuinely unique. Not only were they all very good for their time but they also were I believe the only weapons that changed their appearance when they were fully leveled. These weapons also had unique perks that played off of the other perks the weapons could get. These were incredibly well designed weapons. Also, wrath could compete for top three even if it were released unchanged but knowing bungie will make significant changes like they did with KF, it’s almost guaranteed wrath will surpass many raids in the game now.
@@JungKooksTwin man said Vow… and KF. If Wrath is miles ahead of KF in D1, it will still be in D2. KF weapons aside from sniper are mid, all wrath weapons were great. Wrath id deff top 3 raids in history, it gonna be top 2 when it comes back
Do we know if the adept versions of the guns will be craftable?
Deathsinger stacks @ Totems is actually a debuff that forces you to stay on the plate longer. You don’t need to “Deposit” deathsinger stacks, you just need to rotate. This will get figured out soon enough I’m sure.
The power creep and combat challenge is very concerning.
90% of activities you can struggle to get any kills at all if one guy is going ham. Or have a guy get ahead in a strike and you'll literally just never catch them while they solo it.
Totally with you on the combat. Destiny 2 is starting to feel like Warframe in terms of combat - mindlessly slaughtering hordes of enemies without so much as a thought towards self preservation. Warpriest doors, golgoroth doors, ketchcrash servitor room...
Its kinda always been like that though? The only time I've ever really thought about 'self-preservation' was during the first week and a half of this season when arc was bugged to 0 resilience or in GM night falls.
I haven't had the chance to do this raid because I've been working alone lately how difficult is this version?
I never raided in D1, I really like the revamp of vog but it felt old in a way I couldn't place. On the other hand the only thing that feels old about king's fall is it being on the dreadnought, otherwise it feels just as good as Vow
When going into this raid I was hella nervous cause in D1 I really struggled with this raid. In D2, however, it was super duper fun! My new favorite raid.
played since D1 beta, have over 2500 hours in D1 and 1200 in D2. Kingsfall is my favorite, nostalgic raid. wish they would have put lore on the weapons and armour. but it's so great it's back
I love how Arbalest has come out of nowhere for DPS. Sadly we couldn't complete totems on contest but when we went back in, we beat it and used Arbalest for most of our DPS. It does surprisingly well :O
i think one of my minor gripes about the raid that ill keep thinking of is stuff getting stuck in the door. whether they get staggered *cough wizards* or frozen because my agers
Couldn't agree more with Elitist Datto! Had someone with the day 1 emblem getting confused about mechanics in Warpriest. Evidence he was hard carried by his team for Day 1. I don't know how you can have the emblem and have any confusion...lol
I really liked how Oryx freaked out when he got staggered and then damaged by the bombs in D1, they could make him move around every like 25% health to make it maybe somewhat harder to hit him(?)
Warpriest with aeons or playing double special was required for ammo economy. But with it it became a breeze tbh
FYI, instead of just standing on the Totem waiting to steal the brand, you can help the person get kills and it will add onto their Deathsinger total.
My team had this heavy ammo issue on Oryx. We had nothing for final stand, and that costed us the 24h clear
Back in my day we had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to the raid race on day one.
in all seriousness, I get your point. I think our power will be getting snipped in LF
Kings Fall was my first Raid in D1 and easily my favorite
How do you make those op solar builds he keeps talking about?