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This is similar to other New player experience streams and like those Datto is actually describing what a New to Gaming altogether experience is like. Who plays a new game without testing what each button does. ✌
They finish the tutorial quest and then get a prompt for Salvation’s edge, the end of the last expansion? That’s insane. “I see you just learned to tie your shoes. Next up, we’re going to kill God”
Being a new player in Destiny is like enrolling in a college class you’re really excited for, and then the professor posts all his assignments on discord and his syllabus is outdated and he reads off slides the entire time
If Bungie could stop dropping new players into the newest seasonal content as soon as they make their character I’m sure it would help with a little bit of the confusion.
Trouble is without a campaign theres not much else to do the earliest one we have us shadowkeep and if thats your introduction to destiny youll be confused regardless at least with the newest stuff you're familiar with whats relevant
Should start them in shadow keep and shadow keep should be free with all dlcs now and bring back the 180 dollars worth of dlc they screwed us that's been around since day one of destiny 1 and 2 our money back would go a long way on getting players back
Amanda Holiday being part of the onboarding quest is actually so fucking hilarious because it immediately displays one of the major problems of sunsetting seasonal content. She'll be gone from the tower and the new player isn't going to have any idea why unless they look it up online since the relevant story content that shows her dying isn't there anymore.
You'd figure Bungie would at least update their playable timeline missions for newer major plot points, like Amanda's death. But nope. Something something more drive space, not a priority, etc.
@@Joe_doesnt_know she 'sploded while trying to rescue captured prisoners from the pyramid fleet with Mithrax, there was a bomb trap on her last mission and the whole place went up in flames.
Bro the work I had to do as a new light back in Season Of The Lost was ASTRONOMICAL. Byf is beloved not just because he's a great entertainer, but because he's directly responsible for new lights having ANY idea of what is going on with the story
Bro fr they need to be paying byf he the reason any sort of story getting told it’s great cos we love him but bro it shouldn’t be up to him to hold up the lore
That power weapon drop was the most unceremonious thing I’ve ever seen. When I started playing you got your first power weapon as a reward for beating your first lost sector.
The most bizarre part about this to me is that no new player will ever get to experience all of the story. As someone who stopped playing Destiny like 5 years ago, there are entire chapters and locations I can never touch even if I wanted to
It's disgusting honestly. I understand the technical limitations, but you don't just rip out chapters 1-5 so you can make chapters 10-12... It's infuriating
Some takeaways here: 1. Tutorials might need options for different levels of proficiency, between "new to games", "new to shooters", and "new to Destiny", you have a wide spectrum 2. There just needs to be more explanations, probably done in text. What is glimmer? What are rarities? What does dodge do? What is the radar? What do some of your basic buffs do? What are primary, special, and power weapons? What is XP used for? What is special about exotics? 3. There needs to be a better balance of earning your powers. Gradually earning your grenade, melee, double jump, super, class ability, aspects, fragments. Maybe allow the player to make some choices, like which super they want to unlock first, or which type of double jump they want. We also just need to get them out of the cosmodrome. It is kind of boring to be in the cosmodrome for a long tutorial. In fact, it should be more like, say, a campaign?
Was gonna say, a lot of the issues Spencer was having seem to be extremely basic FPS game mechanics. B for crouch, LT to ADS (on Xbox, which is what he is using) for example.
I don’t get why they brought back Cosmodrome instead of just turning the EDZ Red War segment into your tutorial. It’s a good tutorial segment and ends with you flying off to the rest of the system anyways. Plus EDZ is a massive destination with a bunch to explore and Hawthorne / Devrim would be a great duo for tutorial characters and explain things like Lost sectors, public events, strikes, etc all in a nice beginner friendly area. Idk they had a tutorial spot in the game even post Red War and decided to half bring back Cosmodrome as another one instead
@@broderickfoster2107 Cosmodrome was originally brought back for the first mission when new light was first introduced, then completely re-introduced for nostalgia during the 30 year anniversary of bungie.
Let it be known Spencer spends a lot of his time live-streaming himself playing video games while *distracted* so this makes perfect sense for a video collab.
I stopped playing the game after curse of Osiris. When I returned during season of the splicer I had to watch so many videos to figure out what to do. AS SOMEONE WHO PLAYED THE GAME BEFORE
My husband just got back into D2 after a long time. He played D1 casually with me and then the Red War a long time ago. Even having previous knowledge of the world of destiny and it’s mechanics and gameplay, it was still so confusing to him to see all of the new systems like how your sub class works, and the seasonal artifact. We are going through the light fall campaign right now and the amount of times we get lost or turned around or a bug happens or the objective marker disappears on the map is so insane. I’ve completed the light fall campaign, but even I can’t remember where to go and what to do a lot of the time. He’s playing more to spend time with me than he is to experience destiny. In fact, we just finished It Takes Two - which was a great game by the way- and we just wanted to keep playing something together, and Destiny 2 is one of the only cooperative games we both own. But we’re only having fun while we’re playing it because we’re playing together. The amount of times the game actively destroys our enthusiasm for it causes us to only be able to play in less than an hour-long sessions. When I play for a long period of time, I usually am solo and the crucible is the only thing that I can play for more than an hour. I just finished the Seraph Shield exotic quest by myself and that was fun and a good achievement for me, but usually exotic quests are too hard for me to do alone, so I default to the lowest difficulty nightfall or vanguard ops if I don’t do PVP. All that to say, for a game that is best to play with friends, it takes the goodwill you have when you go in with a buddy and absolutely crushes it under the weight of these complex systems that feel more like homework than a video game. And I say that as a fan of the game for 10 years.
Considering how much my clan is dying after all this has been happening, I commend your husband for sticking around with you through all this. I've been trying to convince myself to become a New Light Guide in LFG, but I'm having a hard time deciding if that will be worth while with the game as it is now. Also, I commend you for PvP, because I'm a 5-year GM PvE pantheon player that's used to most things, who can't fight PvP 1-v-1's to save his life! I'd absolutely love to help people with PvE stuff, but like you said, it can feel crushing when you don't have people/buddies to go with. Respect to both of you!
If both you and your husband enjoy FPS games, may I suggest Darktide as a real co-op game you can play together and have a blast? If either of you aren't into the WH 40k universe (yet), Darktide is a great introduction.
I’m glad to see they changed one Aspect of it at least. I ran the same experiment during Lightfall, and after finishing the New Light content, they immediately dropped me into the first mission of Lightfall. I built a fresh account without the expansions, critically, I didn’t own Lightfall. No prompt, no queuing for a quest, they just dropped me in there. I was given no context as to what was going on, and you’re sent through the entire mission. You likely have no idea who Osiris is, or what that pyramid is, or anything. You fight the Tormentor, and then you’re dropped on the entrance to Neomuna. When you talk to the NPC, you’re then prompted to buy the Expansion to continue playing the game. It was such a wild way to introduce a new player. It sounds like they no longer just dropped me in you in completely, so that’s a good change.
They do on the next time you load in which is the problem. First playthrough you get this experience, second it’s campaign mission and then third I believe it’s season intro mission (or at least it was the last time I took a break) and it’s really not helpful
@Nanoqtran exactly, i have a lot more hot takes ab it too like how streamers want ultra hardcore raid races and things but that only serves .001% of the community 💀 i wonder why casual and new players don't enjoy the game
@@cobho 1% of the community who has nothing to buy. Sure they count as numbers playing the game but they do not bring money. I find most hardcore players (in any game) act like exposure (playtime) pays the bills.
@Nanoqtran i would need to see the numbers to prove anything, but i can tell you in my experience the casuals i know spend just as much if not more sometimes than the better players. Also, being a better player doesn't mean you're in the top standings in raid races and things, im a prime example of that, and i've spent way too much money on this game, and my gripes are a bit different from the streamers/no lifers in d2....
Appreciate you still pushing out YT videos like this despite the horrible ROI/timesink you described YT as the other day. Really hope BungLe sees this one
@@flow89-v6j Good riddance. The talented personnel will find other jobs. Bungie shutting down seems to be the only way to not have the executive suit making decisions on the game...
Somebody made a series "Games for a non-gamer" and I think that should be a mandatory watch for any game developer. If you want to get people into your game(s), you need good accessibility and tutorials. If you don't want to hand-hold everyone, you can 1. make a short tutorial covering the fundamental controls and mechanics 2. have a longer tutorial that's separate from the core game/story and/or 3. Make a very obvious help screen that is easily accessible (literally "select here for help")
The thing that bothers me with the gaming industry and especially with bungie, is that almost every big industry pays millions for consulting. Bungie is getting it for free here, with one of the most listened-to voices in the destiny community analyzing an actual new player joining the game, and 99% chance Bungie is not going to listen to a single suggestion/criticism. Truly mind boggling
They’re getting consulting and they likely realize all of these problems anyways, but the real problem is that they essentially can’t do anything about it because like Datto pointed out almost nobody would be ok with them spending time fixing this instead of adding new content. It’s a lose-lose situation for Bungie. What would likely be in their best interest is for Sony to create a support team to go back and remaster Red War and previous areas (like how Vicarious Visions was in charge of making the PC port and Warmind). The game as a whole needs at least two teams: one working on the future of the game and one working on the present of the game. Currently Apollo is already done and being polished and that’s two releases away, so any criticisms we have of Heresy or the current state can’t be fully addressed until mid-way through Apollo’s cycle because of how far out they’re developing. It also creates a noticeable problem regarding legacy content, most older weapons aren’t even apart of the current weapon system (can’t be enhanced, crafted, nor adept) making their destinations / activities essentially pointless to run outside of novelty. Dares is one of the worst examples of this right now as it holds so much previous seasonal loot that just doesn’t make sense anymore mixed in with loot that’s current and craftable… Nightmare and Empire Hunts are in a similar state, here’s a whole system designed to interact with these planets and their storyline, but the rewards are worse than world drops… D1 got around this by 1, sunsetting and reintroducing enough stuff that nothing over a year (outside the raid weapons) was really left behind (and even then they addressed that with Age of Triumph), 2, by revamping older activities with new releases like Contest of Elders, Taken strike variants, Siva Strikes, Moments of Triumph, etc. and 3, having factions exist so no matter what activity you did be it legacy or modern you were earning progress to a currently powerful weapon. You can’t just let a game’s older content die because it’s not new anymore… the core systems need to keep functioning and expansions need to EXPAND the game not simply be here’s the game for the year…
Well don't forget, Pete Parsons doesn't care if it won't help him with his 23 vintage car addiction. Bungie devs *know* they're literally not allowed to.
I don't know who has played it, but Genshin Impact (for all its problems being a gatcha game), has some of the most hand-holding new player experiences I have ever had in any game, with some many prompts that come over as soon as the player is facing or has to do something new. And yes, the prompts force the game to pause, but allows the player to read the tutorial without worrying about the enemies, which actually helps the players understand the instructions without distractions. Also, Warframe (don't dislike pls) has some small clips of what each warframe ability does when you hover over them, this would be amazing on the subclasses abilities and aspects for new players. If Bungie was able to add something like this to the new player experience, I bet lots of people would enjoy Destiny without having to look for a video to explain everything to them.
@@Sagemel Tbh, the handholding would only happen in the new light quest, after that players would have the option to reread ols tutorials to refresh their memory, but the tutorials will only happen after the new light mission when unlocking mods and loadouts, but nothing else
Yep I remember jumping in to Destiny 2 when The Witch Queen came out and it took about 30 TH-cam tutorials to learn all the different build mechanisms, currencies, collections, and even little things like, Where do I do the campaign, Where do I continue the campaign, How do I unlock the campaign, etc. And then they started switching all the classes to 2.0 and I needed even more tutorials to catch up for Lightfall and Final Shape. There definitely is no way to easily onboard new players to the game in its current state.
I've actually been thinking about the new light experience recently. Imagine if the new light campaign actually was structured like this: - Different starting points based on character races that make sense (humans in cosmodrome OR edz, exos on europa, awoken in DC) - starting mission and intro quest takes you to the different planets where you work along the planet vendor and one of the non-vendor main characters (Osiris/Saint, Mara, Mithrax/Eido/Spider), each planet/mission focuses on a different subclass, mechanic, subclass verbs, and champion type, rewarding all the light supers and two decent starting builds by the end - Aspects and fragments bought from ikora not with glimmer but with basic quests/bounties that involve actually doing things related to the subclass you're trying to unlock aspects/fragments for (100 kills as a dawnblade, 15 kills with gunpowder gamble, create 10 overshields, defeat 50 weakened enemies, etc) - Tower experience guides you from one vendor to the next while teaching you their core vendor principles (Zavala gives you an engram to take to rahool, rahool gives you a low powered weapon but glimmer and enhancement cores to go to banshee, banshee gives enhancement module and a higher power white weapon and teaches you to infuse before giving you a red border to take to ikora, ikora teaches you deepsight) - vendors and playlists are unlocked linearly (learn to do strikes before shaxx reaches out to invite you to the crucible, make a name in the crucible before drifter takes interest in you for gambit) - ritual playlist quests that walk through different modes and teaches the reward/pathfinder system which unlock higher tiers of content (strike quest unlocks nfs, crucible quest unlocks comp, comp unlocks trials, gambit unlocks gambit prime(ranked gambit to revitalize the mode??)) - patrol quest that introduces lost sectors and public events - Ikora introduces the timeline with missions from red war, forsaken, shadowkeep, beyond light (which gives basic stasis), witch queen, lightfall (gives basic strand) - New lore page that contains info on all characters and stories from the game so far similar to the old grimoire cards - Hawthorne introduces clans and guided games at the end - Past campaigns can be started from Ikora so as not to bloat the map immediately with a bunch of quests - Have ONE page at the very end offering the Light and Darkness saga DLC to explore the past, or Frontiers/season content to blaze a path into the future So after a couple hours the player: - has experience with the core playlists and how the reward system works - knows how to infuse weapons and increase power - knows the different roles of everyone in the tower - has a straightforward and narrative-focused path to progress all these things - has met most of the major characters in the game thus far - understands the basic concepts of subclass verbs and champions as well as basic game mechanics (motes, ball throwing) - has aspirational goals (gain power to unlock nightfalls, trials, comp, raids, dungeons) - knows where the reference material is if they want to dive deeper into what stories they have missed - knows what they need to buy based on what they're trying to do in the game rather than the 30 different dlc packs in the store that give no context Or they take the option to join the frontlines which would give them an intro quest at the start of frontiers, skip all of this, give them the basic subclass kits above, and throw you in the deep end to each yourself how to swim or let you quick-join your friends.
Or it could just be New Light > Red War > CoO > Warmind > Forsaken > etc and the game would actually make sense. Mind blowing, I know. If they gave back all the content I bought, I might consider actually playing the game again at some point.
Or or hear me out bro, they could bring back the sunset campaigns and you can download each one separately to save space. No reason why a company of their size can’t do something that simple.
As someone who has convinced friends who have jumped on and then a week later jumped off this game, from their words, the new player experience is fine. What really needs to be refined is giving those players the answer to "why" they are doing these things. Why should I go through campaigns? Why should I do a dungeon? Why should I grind vanguard strikes? Why should I do PvP? And the number one thing I always got asked: What are pinnacles and how do I get to where you are? You don't get directed to raids, dungeons, nightfalls, or trials anymore. People don't understand what these next steps are. Reason why? Because these don't give you prompts when they start to become options. When you reach soft cap, it should show you what to do next. What is a soft cap? What is a hard cap? What is a pinnacle cap? How do you reach those? The finer details of this game need to be given explanations upon reaching them.
PREACH. My friend got me into D2 originally by showing me all the cool Halo stuff they added with 30th Anniversary. It worked, as I was slightly confused but still excited to play until I got forerunner. I kinda just sat there not really knowing what to do and just stopped playing after that. It wasn’t until season of the haunted that I finally understood what the endgame of the game was but that was after months of persuasion from my friend to keep playing and my own research. Even before, I tried the game before Beyond Light came out and still just didn’t get it. I’m glad I did get into Destiny but it took almost 2-3 years to do so thx to how lost you are as a new player
I mean the game does direct you into things like raids....thru the story. Beyond light you see them talk about deep stone Witch queen they talk about the pyramid ship. Etc. There are reasons to do the main raid. As for the pinnacle stuff honestly that flashing on the screen wouldn't do much people would just click off we know this happens that would be a waste. Ya know what would be a waste? Bungie tapping content creators to make videos to explain this stuff and them putting it on the website.
When you were talking about Zero Hour being so wildly early, it reminded me of the time way back when I had started, in Forsaken Era, and stumbled my way blindly into Shattered Throne. I was on discord with other people who were just as blind as me exploring the dreaming city for the first time. That's also how I found your channel. Man, this game's been a journey...
You missed the point where he logs off and then comes back only to be thrown, unwillingly, into the episode's opening mission and then the Final Shape opening mission; creating even more confusion
I'm a ten year veteran of this game and I finally got my girlfriend to try it with me right before Final Shape released and if I was incredibly confused I'm not sure how she felt. I had to explain to her how to use her powered melee because the prompt that tells you in the first mission was on screen for maybe milliseconds because she just so happened to press another button at the same time (not the powered melee button even). After killing the first captain, the game explains where the melee, grenade, and class ability icons are but they don't explain them at all. Especially class ability, since it never teaches you how to cast it nor what it does per class. I went through with her to complete the rest of the New Light campaign (I mostly watched and rezzed her if needed) but throughout it all there was rarely prompts. I remember her casting her nova bomb because the prompt told her to and ended up blowing herself up on thrall. We finished the rest of the "campaign" and went to the tower where she was given like ten different quests which as a veteran I could tell were mostly useless but to a new player it is completely overwhelming. After that there's no more prompts. The new light campaign has no ropes to teach, it simply throws new players on a dilapidated bridge and says "Hope you make it across :3"
I'll be honest... That wont work anymore. We need a RED WAR STYLE campaign but its just difficult to squeeze into the story since every story currently in the game rn is DLC related.
34:55 i think the first mission for each campaign is free? Bungie trying to push people toward a sale instead of pushing them to the timeline to get them invested in the story first, smh.
I thought the exact same thing these guys really don’t give a damn it sucks to hear when you’ve bought the game like 5 times over and never play anymore
Playing Destiny like showing up to a party while it's already wound down. The homeowner is starting to clean up and collect cans, his two best friends are sobering up playing Smash 64, there's someone occupying every sleepable spot - there's a pass out pile in the guest room, a couple of people are passed out on the living room futon, someone's passed out in the tub, someone made it outside but missed their Uber so they're passed out in the backyard. The sun is starting to peak up over the horizon. The cops came to answer a noise complaint hours ago. The vomit on the carpet is cold, the half-drunk drinks are warm, and everyone has already sworn to never drink again, and anyone still awake is looking at your case of beer like they wished it was Advil instead.
Funny as hell the New Player Guide in the timeline is less intrusive than every single other popup in Destiny history. We've been haunted by sublclass unlocks, eververse dogshit, and a myriad of other useless screens but God forbid we actually help the player for once.
I really don’t understand how a new player experience could be neglected like this. Doesn’t more players usually imply more revenue? So why would Bungie put such a roadblock in the way of getting completely new players to start playing and wanting to continue?
I'll never forgot how I didn't use my grenade for days, and my super? I didn't know that you could get it back without dying, so I simply didn't use it for even longer 😅 I must say though, this on-boarding is actually an improvement, except for when I learnt about subclasses, Ikora teaching me to be a void hunter lives in my memory forever, it felt so cool. Despite it all, Years later, I'm somehow still here! This was a pretty interesting video!
This new experience is why I decided to start my gf at D1, she wants to join me in Destiny and to experience the game I've loved for years, so when we get to D2, we're goin through the vaulted content on yt first, and going onto Shadowkeep forward. If Bungie isn't gonna make a well rounded informative introduction to this game, then I'll do it for her.
I love that Datto gives the benefit of the doubt that the new player would probably figure things out if they were "less distracted". But no, they just get off. I'm not being hyperbolic when i say the two people I tried to get into the game wouldn't make progress, or even play, unless I was on directing them.
I started playing during WQ, I spent so much time googling stuff, starting reddit threads, asking questions. I was having fun, but I had no idea how to progress, I didn't know that the green indicator meant my quest was on that planet or what the icons next to a planet's name meant; all games have a learning curve, but D2 has a learning cliff.
@@gen8901i like the q&a chat cus i can kill time answering like where’s nidus or how do i get orokin cells or what the heck is helminth. this community and WFs community are like yin and yang. i don’t think i could trust D2 community as far as i could throw them even if i was superman with the chat. it will be a bad idea if they implement it. the chat mods are at the mercy of chatters, and idk if you remember the rampant nepotism that was going on that Rahetalius pointed out, but man, i BET something like that will rear its ugly head
Ohh the chat can brew up some drama. Warframe is known for this, and the moderator's quite open biases and agendas. They should just do better tutorials in-game and instead of punishment, REWARD vets for carrying new players? After all D2 is all about loot.
I remember when I first started playing D2 after not touching destiny for 5 years. I put on my sunbracers and was beyond frustrated when I wasn’t able to spam nades upon getting a melee kill. It was later when a friend told me that a solar grenade is a specific type of grenade on the solar class and not the general solar grenade lol. It was the many little things like this that made me grateful I had a friend to explain things to me.
Something that confused me for the longest time when I started: The top weapon slot is called 'Kinetic', but there are other weapon types that go there. Similarly, the 2nd weapon type is called 'Energy', but that has no meaning anymore either. They really need to come up with other names for those 2 slots
Top slot is Kinetic, Stasis, and Strand Primary and Special Weapons, Energy slot is Solar, Void, and Arc Primary and Special Weapons, Power is any element Heavy Weapons...doesn't seem that difficult.
@@Sagemel It's less about difficulty in learning the weapon slottings and more about the fact that there never were Stasis and Strand weapons in that slot originally. Before then, only Kinetic weapons existed in the top most slot, hence the "Kinetic" slot. Now that we have Stasis from Beyond Light (the first being Salvation's Grip in the heavy slot), Season 14 (exotic pistol Cryosthesia 77k), then Season 15 with all the Stasis weapons officially - not including all the official Strand weapons during Lightfall - It makes little sense as to why the "Kinetic" slot is still called this. I've been playing since Beyond Light and have ended up calling them "Top Slot" and "Middle Slot" because of the distinction. From a player who's been around long enough, you get used to it, but from an outside perspective, it doesn't feel fitting anymore. Plus, Kinetic being top no longer matches with the other two slots: "Special" and "Power", which are allowed to be vague for energy weapons. Strand and Stasis (despite their placement as "Kinetic") sound just as elemental as the others. To have "Special" weapons be called "Energy" weapons (when the heavy slot has energy weapons) fits to what Jeff points out. Bungie is removing the words "Strength" and "Discipline" from armor stats after Episode:Heresy, and instead is simplifying them to "Melee" and "Grenades". While the weapon descriptions are of least importance on their list, they still should look into it eventually. In fairness, the game automatically sorts the weapons to their respective locations, but it doesn't openly help to explain the naming scheme.
Yeah same, I remember being confused by Kinetic being both a slot and a type of damage, when other non-kinetic guns also went in that slot. Also, even as someone who's played for 2 years, I wish there was a symbol or something on each weapon showing which slot it correlates to. Usually Power weapons are easy to figure out as you just look at the ammo type, Heavy. But there's special ammo weapons in both the Kinetic and Energy slots, and Primary ammo weapons in both too; even overlap in weapon type, like shotguns, bows, breach-loaded GLs, etc that follow no rhyme or reason which of the two slots they go in. It'd be nice to visually see the slot symbol in places that aren't on your character, like in the Postmaster, or in the Vault
I have 140 hours in D2 and when I played I still REGULARLY got stuck mid quest due to no marker or direction. I may not have hundreds of hours but I was NOT brand new to the game and it happened a lot. It was one of my biggest pains with the game honestly. I wasted hours wandering around after having beat all campaigns up to Beyond Light.
This is the most upsetting thing about the game for us, the older players - we need to do like marketing sale campaign to friends to get them to agree to try the game. And as soon as you dont play with them - they just quit. Because there is NO GUIDENCE. People like how it looks, how guns shoot - but they DONT KNOW HOW WHAT TO DO.. And why they do it. And that the next question - "what expantion should i buy to have fun here?" This beautiful game is simply hidden behind the unclear introduction and new player guide. Red War was just perfect to start, this is where it started for me, RIP,, this campaign has won my heart forever. Thanks Datto for raising this important issue.
Being a new Destiny player is like going to buy a car for the first time, but you have no one else that knows anything about cars, APRs, application and administration fees or warranty's. You realize this is really exciting, but you weren't expecting all of this somewhat disappointing extra stuff. Once you actually experience the car long enough, you also realize insurance is hella expensive, you also have to retag the car every year, keep up with maintenance and make sure to consistently check fluid levels. Having a car is 100% worth it, but you were absolutely blindsided by all the dumb shit you had no idea existed because no one was there to help guide you through the process, and now you're struggling to keep up with it. You'll eventually get there, but it'll take time.
just starting the video and can't wait. Me and a friend and fellow D2 player got a small group of friends into the game around Season of the Seraph / Lightfall and our mantra at the time was practically "at least one of us has to be with you at all times so we can explain the game and what you have to do". He even offered to go to one of those friend's houses as he was starting to help him get everything set up and get the ball rolling, so to speak. It was a fun time once we got going but the most endgame content we ever managed to do was running Dungeons with one or two of the new friends, and only ever Shattered Throne, Pit, Grasp, or Spire. Half of the time it just felt like me and the friend were recruiting a third fireteam member with a pulse so we could handle some of those activities haha.
Oof. One of my biggest gripes with Destiny 2 post-BL is the fact that there is no level or ability progression in the game. Recently replayed D1 and forgot how you would gradually unlock base-level abilities like your special jump, grenade, melee, super, etc. and then augment them down the line with their special effects. Very natural progression, whereas it appears from Spencer's experience the game is geared now towards grinding XYZ amount of materials (Glimmer) to unlock all new abilities. Love your suggestion of tutorial videos for aspects and abilities, however brief they may be. As easy as it is to equip something and use it right away, that would be a lot more helpful than some lore junkie tidbit or high-resolution art of the aspect or fragment.
I started my Destiny journey with my son in vanilla d1. He eventually left in shadowkeep & tried to come back 4 yrs later in Lightfall. He quit within a few days. He said it's too confusing. Also mentioned that pvp sucks so bad now so it's not even worth playing. I even tried to help him with direction but he still quit. Destiny 1 was so simple to understand and play.
A simple navigation screen with the free expansions in a "card format" indicating "do this first" with subcards for each dungeon and raid from that expansion era with notifications saying "difficulty expert" or "recommended for a full party of veteran players" would go a long way. Simple and easy to understand progression.
The reason I want Red War back in the game, is that it was DESIGNED to drip feed mechanics and ideas into new players. Every mission was slowly pushing you to new weapons and subclasses.
As a D2 player who's introduction was quite literally: Log in, get to the farm, get dragged through whisper, then straight into levithan before even starting the 2nd mission of the red war, I can attest that starting d2 with an exotic quest with a timer and no markers was absolutely brutal lol. Luckily I liked the game enough and had plenty of friends that I stuck around for a long haul and got into day 1 raiding but damn was that a ROUGH start lmao. Tbf at the time Red war was very much still in the game, I just had crazy friends.
I had 5k hours on my 3 characters. I started a new account and couldn't believe how many exotic quests popped up when starting. I really enjoyed starting a new character. Weapon and good armor stat drops actually excited me where before I had it all so a great roll didn't matter.
I started playing destiny 2 in April on this year, and have around 1500 hours (I've been playing a lot lol) and I STILL had no idea the radar has different opacity/shades of red for enemies that are up or down
Something I feel like Destiny 2 would benefit from for teaching abilities and keywords is to borrow from Path of Exile 2's method that I'm seeing now as I learn that game. Every time I choose an ability, every option that I can pick always comes with a short video and narration to show me what it does and explains it to me. If there's any keyword I don't inherently understand, I can hover over it and it'll provide a definition of it for me. I feel like it'd be really easy to make 6-10 second video tutorials of the grenades, aspects, abilities, even the artifact perks so nobody has to just guess what a thing does or why they should use it. I even know they can do it because they release trailers for every new ability that you can only find by reading online articles.
OOOH this makes me wanna see a completely new Destiny player figure out a raid but I feel like that'd be a monster project. i think when Holtzmann was part of the designing of the original New Light experience he mentioned the "heavy ammo being presented" was part of a Lost Sector, sounds weird that they changed that! i totally get Spencer not feeling invested enough to even read the story timeline, it's like "why should i care right now". excellent video (love the editing detail of adding in in-game prompt that should've been there) and we truly take for granted how used we are to this game and all the info in it. user friendliness getting into a new game is an art by itself, while i appreciate the systems in Destiny this really opens your eyes to how new-user-not-friendly they are. 100% agree that having experience beforehand with the genre helps - just like if you played WoW you could most easily understand roles in FFXIV (I played very little WoW and was completely confused about Healer/Tank roles in FFXIV when I started - that's another wild new player experience lol funnily enough that story start for FFXIV is also a slog to get through and while better than it used to be, it's just as chaotic as what Bungie designed)
There was a team for one of the last couple Raid Races that was basically completely new to Destiny and had only been playing for about a month when said Raid came out, though they had a lot of team synergy and got assistance with some of the Destiny-specific nuances from long time players.
I feel if they put the time together to make a free campaign similar to the pacing of Witch Queen or Lightfall with 5-6 missions would help with the new player experience. It's already something familiar to most people who play games and can be used to spread out the information in an organic way as well as introducing destiny at its best. They can also add some strikes or patrol exploration in between the missions to break up the pace. They don't even have to make a new campaign experience from scratch, they could reuse/repurpose the new light tutorial in the cosmodrome and shadowkeep campaign into one whole with of course some tweaks. As long as the game immersive the new player and shows a way how to progress their character through all the systems. Right now, Guardian ranks, seasonal passes/content, campaigns and power level is all too overwhelming to front load, so every new player feels like their just doing random bs.
I bought D1 on day 1, I played all through that, all raids, bought D2 on release, moved to PC when possible and continued played here. Currently haven't really played actively since the story-part of Final Shape. I would watch the heck out of a "multi-episode new player guide for Destiny". I'm 100% sure there is quite a bit of things I've misunderstood, misinterpreted or otherwise just messed up on my journey. Honestly, aspects might be one of these "things" I've misunderstood. I started out by watching guides on them, and may never "really" have understood them. Also, I may just enjoy Datto's way of explaining things. No-nonsense, direct to the point and not afraid of telling people "you should probably just don't do this, it's for the 1% of the 1%, and it's MAYBE 4% better in this specific situation" Thanks! Then I won't spend 10 hours on that :D
9:39 “Your characters never talks. “Character proceeds to talk. “Didn’t he just talk?” … “it’s him, your character, idk does he” beeeeeeeeeeep 🤣🤣🤣💀🏴☠️🪦⚰️
They could add rooms to the tower that serve as training areas. Like 1 room where you learn what abilities do and 1 that shows you what all the weapons do. Things like that would be nice.
This really highlights how much of a new light experience we have lost with the removal of The Red War. Nearly everything in the game except for literally only the prior narrative context for the Tower getting destroyed was explained clearly to the player. Genuinely the BIGGEST roadblock to getting new players into the game is the TUTORIAL, one that has had very VERY small changes since when it came out in Beyond Light. It is not at all an expansive or explicit enough for new players, especially those unfamiliar to the genre, and unfortunately it doesn't seem like any development regarding this experience is coming ANYTIME soon. The next expansion would be a great opportunity, but that would mean having to either simplify the entire experience which will not be as enjoyable for veterans, creating two different versions of the expansion's campaign which doesn't seem feasible, and/or making the expansion entirely free so that it is easily accessible for new players, which at this point seems impossible for Bungie to even think about. It's a tough situation that I absolutely wouldn't wanna be in charge of solving if I was a game developer, but at the same time it's Bungie's own fault for making a decision as big as removing a very solid onboarding experience 4 years ago without thinking or caring enough about what would be put in its place, and continuing to neglect it and not even mention it as one of the game's major pain points for almost the entirety of those 4 years.
I'm shocked Dares of Eternity wasn't brought up (by the game). It's accessible to everyone and easy with a ton of enemies and simple version of mechanics (like shoot the enemy with the relic or stand in this area). The loot it gives is good and can be a decent segway into the weapon crafting system. The map is consistent across runs and Xur narrates what to do. It also has bounties and it's own vendor to help teach that mechanic as well. All these things make me think it's a good thing to introduce to new players, but it just isn't.
Man, I remember starting back in Arrivals, doing the old Arms Dealer strike, and thinking that the popups in the top right that said Cayde and Hawthorne when dialoge sounded were actually the names of the ghosts of the other two players. The onboarding process has never been great.
So, as someone who was a solo player for years before I ever joined a clan or found people to play with, I can attest to there being a huge learning curve to Destiny - and I joined when there was a better new player experience. I legitimately feel like I didn’t even feel like I understood the gameplay loop until I was like 500 hours into the game, and that’s just insane! As someone with 6k+ hours I can still say that we desperately need better onboarding.
I started Destiny last year, maybe two weeks before TFS launched, and I can barely remember anything I did at the beginning, since my friend was trying to guide me through Riven's Wishes as quickly as possible to craft an Apex Predator. But something I vividly remember was having to look up online how to summon my sparrow, since either the game never bothered to tell me how or there was a popup that I missed or accidentally closed when I didn't mean to. I was halfway to Shaw Han in that section of the Cosmodrome with the ships (can't remember the name), hoofing it the entire way, before realizing that something was wrong and there had to be something I was missing.
This kind of thing seems more common. I’m a relatively new player, started around the middle of Lightfall’s lifetime, and the friends that had me get started jumped me right into content I now know is far too difficult. Frankly, they still do, sometimes. Alongside that, I had numerous instances of hate-filled messages from random teammates while playing through some Strikes, Gambit, and Crucible, when I was just trying to learn things. As a whole, it seems increasingly more common to hear stories about New Lights facing a very unwelcoming community, whether through toxicity, a false assumption of the New Light’s competence, or just the inability for veterans of the game to recognize that a New Light with 50 hours (or even 100 or more) can’t match the veterans that have played for thousands of hours.
@@OogaBooga_ba_bongadongaDon't get me wrong, my friends are fantastic. They did have me run Prophecy long before I was ready to tackle a dungeon, but I'm pretty sure that was to get Apex Predator, which I was eventually able to craft (RIP one of my other friends who got the five red border AP's, but didn't get the pattern due to a mistake). I don't really interact with the community because I have social anxiety, to the point I panic a little whenever I seriously consider LFG-ing (I don't have enough friends for a raid and they're not as active as me either). But the community doesn't come across as super welcoming. Everything I've heard about the Destiny community doesn't help either.
One of the biggest things that I will still see players struggle with is understanding when and how to use their different weapon types, there's already a bit of color coding in place so just having some kind of tutorial that reinforces "Red = Primary" Orange = Special" "Yellow = Heavy" could go a long way in mitigating the frustration of enemies feeling "too tanky" when you see somebody trying to kill a Yellow Bar boss tier enemy with their Primary Auto Rifle. (We could even see a moment of this where Datto was trying to gently guide Spencer towards using his Fusion Rifle on the Boss Wizard when he was struggling to bring the shields down.) I feel like Into The Light was at least sort of an attempt at making some new player friendly content with Onslaught especially with the normal mode version, so I feel like it would be good to direct players into that playlist since there's actually a lot of valuable guns you can still get through that and it's something that lets you get used to some more base level mechanics without getting too complicated. Dreaming City also needs to be highlighted more as a good starting space too since that's all still there, including some campaign missions to try out and a lot of secrets to explore and discover at your own pace, and all the weapons there are still viable since they were refreshed for Season of the Wish. I think Zero Hour could honestly be a good introduction to end game content that rewards a still very good gun, but there should be some clearer labeling surrounding it that basically lets you know that this is gonna be more of a "mysterious high level side quest" that will intentionally have you exploring a lot of unknowns without much direction, and that you will want to be in a team of three for the best experience. (Maybe even set an expectation that you might not necessarily clear it on your first try as you're learning the mission more.) Though I do agree it still shows up way too early, you at least want people to have a semi proper build set up (Which the New Light kits definitely try to help set up) and have people better understand the importance of the different ammo types and when to use abilities, I'd probably recommend most people start trying exotic quests after at least finishing Shadowkeep and Beyond Light.
I created a new account and did this a few months ago. The most shocking for me (aside from the sheer amount of important systems locked behind guardian ranks) was the Final Shape mission that early in the guardian ranks. Even as a veteran player, the new player experience was painful and obtuse.
I somehow persuaded my girlfriend to play the game, as she was feeling left out due to two of our friends also playing it with me. And she enjoyed it but there’s so much to do and so much information (especially when it comes to story) that she just couldn’t keep up with, I even deleted my Hunter so we could play through the new light experience together fully. Just everything was too much, she didn’t last long and my two friends that also played slowly stopped playing as the final shape came along. I wish it was easier for new people to join the game but because of the 12 years of lore and story that exists it’s very difficult to catch you up fully. They’re on the right path but still have a lot to develop when it comes to new light experience
I think it would be a good idea to get to play as one of the vanguard based on what class you picked and somehow warp that back into your regular role as the guardian. So you get a taste of how strong you could be
A few years ago I convinced a friend to play. I told him we could start together. The day before he decided to jump in and give it ago. He was so frustrated... The final straw was going into a strike and having no idea what to do, being left by team mates. He uninstalled before we got to play. Last time I introduced a friend I had him stream to me and I guided him on discord.
"You can't make that assumption about every player," sums up a lot of issues with the New Light experience. I went through it to reminisce prior to TFS and realized that if I was a new player, I would have dropped the game after a few hours because it never felt like catered to my experience. Maybe at this point we just need solo instance tutorial side-quest areas with key characters to teach specific things (i.e. Vanguard - light powers, Drifter/Eris/Elsie - Dark powers, Shaxx/Saladin/Banshee - Weapons/crafting)? Then New Lights actually get taught and get to experience time with characters that they otherwise missed out on.
I remember I onboarded two friends into the game before Into The Light came out and wanted them to get into the game in time. They both play shoooters like apex and Fortnite and we play Roblox together a lot. One of my friends was a titan and he got the grasp of the game pretty well when it came to shooting guns and using abilities. The other was a warlock and he was pretty ass (can’t blame him tho tbh) cuz nothing was explained. The titan friend leveled up generally faster than the warlock friend cuz he just wasn’t rlly having as much fun. The titan friend had fun just using consecration and it was at this time rivens wishes were out, so we got him pyrogale. So I had a titan friend with a decent solar build with pyrogales and sunshot and I set both their builds up for into the light, it’s looking sweet. Into the light comes and the titan friend sees that, our warlock friend is now the same light as him. Because if u remember they jumped everyone up to the power cap. That disheartened my titan friend so bad that he just stopped playing. I explained to him how they do this from time to time and it’s not the first time, but seeing how the warlock friend basically matched his power level by doing half the work because of an update literally made him drift away from the game. I tell him to hop back in but he just says “what’s the point I’ll just get to ur level one day without trying”. It’s shit like that that affects new players and the destiny community as a whole. Just our time feeling worthless.
The killer is that there's a clear path to building onboarding if they wanted to do it. Separate new player missions for each type - Hunters on Nessus, Warlocks on The Moon, Titans in the Cosmodrome. From there, an updated Tower tour. And then either go and play freely, or have a 'meditation chamber', where you can 'commune with the Light' and use Timeline Reflections to experience selected highlight missions and history. Start and end of Red War, killing Xol, meeting Osiris, etc. And you could add in a theater to watch pivotal cutscenes from the Seasons. They COULD do it, but they've actively chosen not to.
Personally, I think a lot of the Bungie devs want to overhaul the new player experience but management won't allocate the resources needed for it, so what's in the game is what the devs slapped together and modify it over time. Pete and the boys wasted too much money and resources on cancelled projects which means less devs to work on the game, so I don't see an overhaul to the on boarding process any time soon, if at all.
See, Datto, silly boy, 34:40 you fail to understand that Bungie wants people to "get hooked" on the first mission and buy the expansion more than they want them to have a coherent story experience.
I struggled an insanely long time with anything melee-related in D2Y1, since it took for ever for it to occur to me that my regular melee was NOT bound to my melee cooldown... The game never told me that the charged and uncharged melees were separate things.
My recommendation for new players (assuming familiarity with FPS games, if you aren't then... well, I just can't recommend this game and Datto already has a good point) is pretty simply find some people to play with (this game is really intended to be social, however much solo players may hate that) and focus on learning a) the gameplay and b) what you enjoy about the game. Be that story, the loot, Strikes, Crucible, Raids/Dungeons, Gambit, WHATEVER, if there is something in this game that you enjoy, have a blast with it. Before getting any expansions, ask about which are worth getting and what they contain, story-spoiler free (loot and gameplay stuff is probably unavoidable at this point). Don't get pretty much any of these except TFS (for now) unless they're on sale, but my personal recommendation for expansion-getting as of writing is: 1) The Final Shape (Overall best campaign, most recent content, great raid, great loot, Prismatic subclasses, so much to love. IMO the only expansion worth it on a full price tag, but that will likely change with Frontiers' release) 2) The Witch Queen (Mainly for the campaign, which is the 2nd best IMO. Raid is also pretty solid with some good loot as well) 3) Lightfall (While the story is nonsensical, Strand cannot be denied as something giving Lightfall some value. Root of Nightmares is also a simple, good raid with solid loot) 4) Forsaken Pack (15 Exotic weapons, most super powerful in their own way, plus the Shattered Throne Dungeon and Last Wish raid. If you want some of the best Destiny endgame content in the franchise's history, this is the pack for you) 5) Beyond Light Pack (STASIS AND THE CAMPAIGN ARE FREE. Loot is a bit outdated, Exotics are really hit-or-miss but this pack is worth it for the Deep Stone Crypt raid alone, IMO) 6) Shadowkeep Pack (Dungeon is lackluster, the Raid is hit-or-miss especially, even with updated loot, and there's really only 2 or 3 exotics here worth getting, and you can live without them. Don't buy unless you have everything above this) 7) 30th Anniversary Pack (Dares is free, the only paid thing you get is cosmetics, Grasp of Avarice and its mostly PvP-oriented somewhat out-of-date loot, and Gjallarhorn, which isn't necessary and IMO more niche than Divinity. Don't buy unless you have everything else, I'm dead serious about Shadowkeep's pack giving you more than this) Note: I also considered the Dungeon passes in this ranking, though they do come separately. Only get them if you enjoy Dungeons and potentially grinding for their random loot, and do your own research into each Dungeon included in each pass before coming to your own conclusion.
I just got back into Destiny for the first time since Witch Queen, so i decided to soft-reset myself by deleting 2 characters and committing to a single fresh Titan. I think the New Light stuff is fine for learning the game, and the basics of an FPS are left to the player to understand. The buildcrafting has changed since i last played (charged with light, elemental wells etc.), and I actually found the new stuff like Armor Charge, Frost Armor, and other stuff to be easier to understand. My one thing i wish the game did better when starting a new character was to give more QUESTS. Its difficult sometimes to understand what gear will level you up, knowing the difference in reward tiers, knowing soft cap vs power cap. Overall, im having fun but you really need a friend to help guide you through it. Maybe offer a bounty to experienced vets to guide a player for a special title or exotic/shader/ship that completes pnce the new player accomplishes a certain amount of stuff.
D1 startup was the same. You have to figure it out. I didn’t figure it out until I discovered people were making videos on TH-cam about Destiny and it really helped. One guy I remember was called Datto. His videos were helpful.
Datto still has some of the best Ad reads on TH-cam. Thankyou for putting effort into them so they don't just feel like they're interrupting the video with something that I'm probably not gonna engage with but will happily listen to the ad instead of skipping till its done. This is especially appreciated since a lot of ads now adays are just low quality garbage with horrible ai voices that barely try to sell you on the product but are more than happy to waste your time or believe LOUD = engagement.
Worth mentioning. Make sure to play the introductory witch queen campaign as early as you can. It unlocks a huge system called weapon crafting. I’ve had friends not be able to collect red border frame weapons because they have not unlocked weapon crafting
Another thing bungie could do to get new players is to work on their reputation of extreme greed. Thanks to Aztecross and massive streamers like Asmongold, some ordinary gamers, and moist critical, the mainstream gaming community and internet know that bungie is greedier than Mr. Krabs. If new players want to get all the content but spend the least amount of money, they’re going to have spend 100$ for the current dlc and seasonal content, 70$ for the legacy edition, and 60$ for all of the dungeons. Not to mention another 80$ if they’re on PlayStation which is insane since this is a F2P game owned by Sony. As you said, there are sales but they are occasional. Then they’re going to have to spend even more money when the 2025 dlc comes out. Aztecross’s video also showed potential customers that bungie consistently invents new scummy ways to nickel and dime their fans year after year. When the 2023 state of the game came out, Charlie showed his massive audience that bungie is lazy when they were whining about having to do the bare minimum and update the armor for the F2P players since they couldn’t lock it behind a paywall.
that "reputation of extreme greed" is quite well deserved and probably near irreparable for a lot of people at this point being frank here, it's been abundantly clear through their behavior and the way they have swindled players, along with how reticent they are to throw players a bone basically ever, and the insistence on keeping as many transactions in the game as possible with as little time investement into their content as possible, yea i'm sorry but for many players, there is just no recovering that reputation
Weh you have to buy the content to play the game. I do agree that legacy stuff should be cheaper but saying 'extreme greed', 'new scummy ways to nickel and dime their fans year after year'. You sound like an idiot. You gotta pay the people who make the game. Eververse doesn't pay for the game. Expansions and DLC pays for the game. If they wanted to nickel and dime us they'd make you pay a monthly fee like FFXVII and WOW do.
@@xazz What you get when you start in FFXIV is substantially more content, and it is not marketed as a hybrid F2P game, its marketed as an MMO, with the base game and first two expansions being a completely free trial, that's hundreds of hours of content. Not to mention, as others have noted, FFXIV doesn't have the baggage of the insane monetization practices nor studio controversy Bungie keeps falling into.
@@xazz dude the whole point of the eververse is to make money for the game lol why do you think everything in there costs silver??? The expansions pay and yet the devs are still being laid off?? almost like the expansion size or quality or release reception DOESNT MATTER when the game that calls itself a f2p feels more like an Ad for the latest expansion instead of a playable experience. playing VOG 300 times isnt going to appeal to someone who doesnt even know how to equip mods on their armor. For someone who plays the game and puts money into it regularly you may have convinced yourself ur "putting food on the table" for the devs but in reality they get paid the same paycheck whether the expansion is free or not...
Was introduced by some friends and tried to figure it out and play with them. Let me tell you. It took me about a year or two to finally ge help from TH-cam to figure out how to do stuff like quests, missions, abilities. Etc. Thank God for TH-cam vids to help.
Loved the video. I’m curious if you watched Jez’s video of Amy playing (I would assume so)? Obviously, a lot of the points made were extremely similar and the new player “mistakes” (things they missed/weren’t explained at all) are also strikingly similar. Hopefully bungie is able to do something to draw in new players and make the experience better. I’ve personally had a very difficult time getting anyone to play the game after I say I spent $120 (when stuff was on sale) to get all the most recent content to play and it’s also around $80 per year (for expansion/season/dungeon key)
Great video Datto, I hope someone at Bungie see this and makes the new light experience better. The game is in a low point, but I still love it and don't want to see it die, we need new blood.
I think the tutorial should include a section where they're locked in a room with some dregs, and then forced to acknowledge blue pop ups about the abilities in order of their grenade, melee, and class ability, by using each ability as far as build crafting, I think that needs to just be something you figure out, aspects and fragments should have a tutorial as far as just "this is what an aspect is, this is what a fragment is" and then that's it, same for the other systems like perks and mods, they should just tell the player what they are, and then players themselves can figure out synergies. I also think hot take, that Destiny should actually start you at Power level 0 and I actually think each destination should contain different level ranges, and the new light quest should be like the vanilla campaign, where you unlock the destinations all the way up to paid content, sort of like warframe's star chart, the progression through the star chart in warframe serves as an elongated form of tutorial through experience, and if destiny had something similar, new players would have guidance, in their "power grind" up to the power ceiling before you have to pay for content
One thing i like about Warframe over D2 is how the weapons, especially mid to late game, practically feel like additional abilities. Exotics and perks that deal in keywords help in D2, but they still almost always feel weaker than a good old fashioned grenade and punch, and inversely to Warframe, this feeling increases in the endgame, when most legendary primaries feel like peashooters. Doesn't help you're HEAVILY incentivized to ration special and heavy ammo.
I started the game about a year and a half ago, currently around 1500 hours(eek, I know,) and I just jumped right in. I had almost zero understanding of how stats affected my abilities, how different subclass aspects influenced gameplay, how to use certain combos to my advantage, if weapon perks were even important, how progression worked, what my goal was. It was miserable, but after grinding through the hard shit it was somewhat okay. The game is so unintuitive that I didn't realize crucible was a game mode until I hit almost 300 hours in the game. Weapon and engram focusing wasn't explained... AT ALL. Build crafting was something i had to learn about exclusively through youtubers. The game is not friendly to new players at all. It's no wonder our player count is so low. Even given the lackluster content that's been happening recently, new players simply can't understand the game and as such, will just stop playing. Not to mention the fact that more than half of the game is locked behind seasonal and expansion paywalls that add up to well over 150 dollars. It's sad how this game has fallen into disrepair. I love the game more than any other but the current state of it is breaking my poor gamer heart💔
The list of mmo shooters with this good of a gun feel is about 1 entry long (Hunt showdown is a completely different genre, so are hero shooters, and fallout 76.. Let's not kid ourselves)
@@azyrael96or just play a different type of game altogether. yakuza, helldivers, i would honestly and truly recommend halo 5 firefight as a better use of time than d2 pve rn
Some new things D2 needs: 1) UI facelift and major pop-up fix 2) New light campaign that ties the players into the definitive d1 - red war experience 3) Free dlc missions
They NEED to make it so that at the release of every new expansion the current oldest paid expansion becomes free forever. It wouldn't completely solve this problem, but it would surely help ease new players in and give them direction if they have some expansions (depending on when they start). This would also help get new players at least a little invested into the game and surely would have to be better than giving them random ad popups for the newest expansion...
Get 50% off your first order of CookUnity by using my link and using code DATTO50: www.cookunity.com/datto50. Thanks to CookUnity for sponsoring the video. (link fixed now, sorry about that)
That link is a 404
This is similar to other New player experience streams and like those Datto is actually describing what a New to Gaming altogether experience is like. Who plays a new game without testing what each button does. ✌
W sponsor bit writing again, keep it up
They finish the tutorial quest and then get a prompt for Salvation’s edge, the end of the last expansion? That’s insane. “I see you just learned to tie your shoes. Next up, we’re going to kill God”
This one sent me lol
irl lol
I'm saving this quote for later, but it really does accurately sum up the unfortunate situation new players get.
Average JRPG plotline
Welcome to Dark Souls all over again lmao
Being a new player in Destiny is like enrolling in a college class you’re really excited for, and then the professor posts all his assignments on discord and his syllabus is outdated and he reads off slides the entire time
Literally my 11'th grade physics teacher
Speak Romanian
Also you're supposed to be in the 1st year of college and there are only 5th year classes available for you to enroll in
People really have just gotten dumber
And the textbook costs 200 dollars. It’s required for the exam so you don’t fail it
If Bungie could stop dropping new players into the newest seasonal content as soon as they make their character I’m sure it would help with a little bit of the confusion.
Trouble is without a campaign theres not much else to do the earliest one we have us shadowkeep and if thats your introduction to destiny youll be confused regardless at least with the newest stuff you're familiar with whats relevant
Instructions unclear, renamed seasons to episodes to compensate.
This^^
Just stop being bad at pvp and I won’t care what you do as a new player.
Should start them in shadow keep and shadow keep should be free with all dlcs now and bring back the 180 dollars worth of dlc they screwed us that's been around since day one of destiny 1 and 2 our money back would go a long way on getting players back
Amanda Holiday being part of the onboarding quest is actually so fucking hilarious because it immediately displays one of the major problems of sunsetting seasonal content. She'll be gone from the tower and the new player isn't going to have any idea why unless they look it up online since the relevant story content that shows her dying isn't there anymore.
You'd figure Bungie would at least update their playable timeline missions for newer major plot points, like Amanda's death. But nope. Something something more drive space, not a priority, etc.
Wait wat happens to her im new.
She died in a season you cant play anymore. So she is gone now and new players wont know why. (She sacrificed so we survive)@@Joe_doesnt_know
@@Joe_doesnt_know She blew up 2 years ago
@@Joe_doesnt_know she 'sploded while trying to rescue captured prisoners from the pyramid fleet with Mithrax, there was a bomb trap on her last mission and the whole place went up in flames.
"In return I have to play Wii Sports Resort with him"
Seems like a win to me
I fail to see the downside
@@johnpaulcross424the downside is making his friend play destiny lmao /s
Bro the work I had to do as a new light back in Season Of The Lost was ASTRONOMICAL. Byf is beloved not just because he's a great entertainer, but because he's directly responsible for new lights having ANY idea of what is going on with the story
appropriate season for a noob to pick up the game
Bro fr they need to be paying byf he the reason any sort of story getting told it’s great cos we love him but bro it shouldn’t be up to him to hold up the lore
Season where I’m lost frfr
Honestly half the fun
I remember watching his 4 hour story so far video multiple times so I had a clue what was happening around me lmao
That power weapon drop was the most unceremonious thing I’ve ever seen. When I started playing you got your first power weapon as a reward for beating your first lost sector.
Back when it was a shotgun
@@Chillantro the good ol Stubborn Oak from year 1 wasn't from a lost sector though. you got it after beating the second mission of the campaign
The most bizarre part about this to me is that no new player will ever get to experience all of the story. As someone who stopped playing Destiny like 5 years ago, there are entire chapters and locations I can never touch even if I wanted to
It's disgusting honestly. I understand the technical limitations, but you don't just rip out chapters 1-5 so you can make chapters 10-12... It's infuriating
Some takeaways here:
1. Tutorials might need options for different levels of proficiency, between "new to games", "new to shooters", and "new to Destiny", you have a wide spectrum
2. There just needs to be more explanations, probably done in text. What is glimmer? What are rarities? What does dodge do? What is the radar? What do some of your basic buffs do? What are primary, special, and power weapons? What is XP used for? What is special about exotics?
3. There needs to be a better balance of earning your powers. Gradually earning your grenade, melee, double jump, super, class ability, aspects, fragments. Maybe allow the player to make some choices, like which super they want to unlock first, or which type of double jump they want.
We also just need to get them out of the cosmodrome. It is kind of boring to be in the cosmodrome for a long tutorial. In fact, it should be more like, say, a campaign?
Was gonna say, a lot of the issues Spencer was having seem to be extremely basic FPS game mechanics. B for crouch, LT to ADS (on Xbox, which is what he is using) for example.
Exactly. There is no explanation for what all those things are and what you can do with them.
I don’t get why they brought back Cosmodrome instead of just turning the EDZ Red War segment into your tutorial. It’s a good tutorial segment and ends with you flying off to the rest of the system anyways. Plus EDZ is a massive destination with a bunch to explore and Hawthorne / Devrim would be a great duo for tutorial characters and explain things like Lost sectors, public events, strikes, etc all in a nice beginner friendly area. Idk they had a tutorial spot in the game even post Red War and decided to half bring back Cosmodrome as another one instead
@@broderickfoster2107 Cosmodrome was originally brought back for the first mission when new light was first introduced, then completely re-introduced for nostalgia during the 30 year anniversary of bungie.
@@Sagemel Thing is not every shooter even has ADS. Overwatch is a well known example of this.
Let it be known Spencer spends a lot of his time live-streaming himself playing video games while *distracted* so this makes perfect sense for a video collab.
Lmaoo
Drop the @
I see the new player onboarding is just as bad as the returning player onboarding.
I stopped playing the game after curse of Osiris. When I returned during season of the splicer I had to watch so many videos to figure out what to do. AS SOMEONE WHO PLAYED THE GAME BEFORE
I saw a new player in the tower yesterday... almost didn't believe it.
If you go to the cosmodrome you’ll spot a lot of them :)
@@Matisyahuwu How many of them are cheater bots for PVP though? 🤔
@@urazz7739alot of times they move slowly and stuff dont seem like cheaters to me
I saw two lvl 2s yesterday at the tower. Based on body language I’d guess they were Smurfs
@@Matisyahuwu Seeing a lot of new players in the noob zone but nowhere else in the game suggests they're quitting almost immediately.
Jez's video about his wife trying Destiny for the first time is one of his best videos. Cant wait for this.
My husband just got back into D2 after a long time. He played D1 casually with me and then the Red War a long time ago. Even having previous knowledge of the world of destiny and it’s mechanics and gameplay, it was still so confusing to him to see all of the new systems like how your sub class works, and the seasonal artifact. We are going through the light fall campaign right now and the amount of times we get lost or turned around or a bug happens or the objective marker disappears on the map is so insane. I’ve completed the light fall campaign, but even I can’t remember where to go and what to do a lot of the time.
He’s playing more to spend time with me than he is to experience destiny. In fact, we just finished It Takes Two - which was a great game by the way- and we just wanted to keep playing something together, and Destiny 2 is one of the only cooperative games we both own. But we’re only having fun while we’re playing it because we’re playing together. The amount of times the game actively destroys our enthusiasm for it causes us to only be able to play in less than an hour-long sessions.
When I play for a long period of time, I usually am solo and the crucible is the only thing that I can play for more than an hour. I just finished the Seraph Shield exotic quest by myself and that was fun and a good achievement for me, but usually exotic quests are too hard for me to do alone, so I default to the lowest difficulty nightfall or vanguard ops if I don’t do PVP. All that to say, for a game that is best to play with friends, it takes the goodwill you have when you go in with a buddy and absolutely crushes it under the weight of these complex systems that feel more like homework than a video game. And I say that as a fan of the game for 10 years.
Considering how much my clan is dying after all this has been happening, I commend your husband for sticking around with you through all this.
I've been trying to convince myself to become a New Light Guide in LFG, but I'm having a hard time deciding if that will be worth while with the game as it is now.
Also, I commend you for PvP, because I'm a 5-year GM PvE pantheon player that's used to most things, who can't fight PvP 1-v-1's to save his life!
I'd absolutely love to help people with PvE stuff, but like you said, it can feel crushing when you don't have people/buddies to go with.
Respect to both of you!
If both you and your husband enjoy FPS games, may I suggest Darktide as a real co-op game you can play together and have a blast? If either of you aren't into the WH 40k universe (yet), Darktide is a great introduction.
@ Oh you know what he just got the new WH game and I’ve been watching him play- he loves it! Thanks for the suggestion I’ll tell him about it 👍👍
I’m glad to see they changed one Aspect of it at least.
I ran the same experiment during Lightfall, and after finishing the New Light content, they immediately dropped me into the first mission of Lightfall. I built a fresh account without the expansions, critically, I didn’t own Lightfall.
No prompt, no queuing for a quest, they just dropped me in there. I was given no context as to what was going on, and you’re sent through the entire mission. You likely have no idea who Osiris is, or what that pyramid is, or anything. You fight the Tormentor, and then you’re dropped on the entrance to Neomuna.
When you talk to the NPC, you’re then prompted to buy the Expansion to continue playing the game. It was such a wild way to introduce a new player.
It sounds like they no longer just dropped me in you in completely, so that’s a good change.
They do on the next time you load in which is the problem. First playthrough you get this experience, second it’s campaign mission and then third I believe it’s season intro mission (or at least it was the last time I took a break) and it’s really not helpful
@@broderickfoster2107I still get the intro mission cinematics when logging in, then the seasonal quest. Very confusing
This is truly why the game has fizzled out, no new players, or at least not as much as we needed
New players bring new wallets. New wallets bring money.
@Nanoqtran exactly, i have a lot more hot takes ab it too like how streamers want ultra hardcore raid races and things but that only serves .001% of the community 💀 i wonder why casual and new players don't enjoy the game
@@cobho 1% of the community who has nothing to buy. Sure they count as numbers playing the game but they do not bring money.
I find most hardcore players (in any game) act like exposure (playtime) pays the bills.
@Nanoqtran i would need to see the numbers to prove anything, but i can tell you in my experience the casuals i know spend just as much if not more sometimes than the better players. Also, being a better player doesn't mean you're in the top standings in raid races and things, im a prime example of that, and i've spent way too much money on this game, and my gripes are a bit different from the streamers/no lifers in d2....
@Nanoqtran but yes you're right, they think that playing the game is what gives them money and it's not true, it's upsetting
Appreciate you still pushing out YT videos like this despite the horrible ROI/timesink you described YT as the other day. Really hope BungLe sees this one
Bungo will be closed in less than 2 years. There is no hope
@@flow89-v6j Good riddance. The talented personnel will find other jobs. Bungie shutting down seems to be the only way to not have the executive suit making decisions on the game...
Somebody made a series "Games for a non-gamer" and I think that should be a mandatory watch for any game developer. If you want to get people into your game(s), you need good accessibility and tutorials. If you don't want to hand-hold everyone, you can 1. make a short tutorial covering the fundamental controls and mechanics 2. have a longer tutorial that's separate from the core game/story and/or 3. Make a very obvious help screen that is easily accessible (literally "select here for help")
Razbuten?
The thing that bothers me with the gaming industry and especially with bungie, is that almost every big industry pays millions for consulting. Bungie is getting it for free here, with one of the most listened-to voices in the destiny community analyzing an actual new player joining the game, and 99% chance Bungie is not going to listen to a single suggestion/criticism. Truly mind boggling
They’re getting consulting and they likely realize all of these problems anyways, but the real problem is that they essentially can’t do anything about it because like Datto pointed out almost nobody would be ok with them spending time fixing this instead of adding new content. It’s a lose-lose situation for Bungie. What would likely be in their best interest is for Sony to create a support team to go back and remaster Red War and previous areas (like how Vicarious Visions was in charge of making the PC port and Warmind).
The game as a whole needs at least two teams: one working on the future of the game and one working on the present of the game. Currently Apollo is already done and being polished and that’s two releases away, so any criticisms we have of Heresy or the current state can’t be fully addressed until mid-way through Apollo’s cycle because of how far out they’re developing. It also creates a noticeable problem regarding legacy content, most older weapons aren’t even apart of the current weapon system (can’t be enhanced, crafted, nor adept) making their destinations / activities essentially pointless to run outside of novelty. Dares is one of the worst examples of this right now as it holds so much previous seasonal loot that just doesn’t make sense anymore mixed in with loot that’s current and craftable… Nightmare and Empire Hunts are in a similar state, here’s a whole system designed to interact with these planets and their storyline, but the rewards are worse than world drops…
D1 got around this by 1, sunsetting and reintroducing enough stuff that nothing over a year (outside the raid weapons) was really left behind (and even then they addressed that with Age of Triumph), 2, by revamping older activities with new releases like Contest of Elders, Taken strike variants, Siva Strikes, Moments of Triumph, etc. and 3, having factions exist so no matter what activity you did be it legacy or modern you were earning progress to a currently powerful weapon. You can’t just let a game’s older content die because it’s not new anymore… the core systems need to keep functioning and expansions need to EXPAND the game not simply be here’s the game for the year…
Tbf a lot of that "consulting" is not as concise as Dattos
Well don't forget, Pete Parsons doesn't care if it won't help him with his 23 vintage car addiction. Bungie devs *know* they're literally not allowed to.
Being there during the making of this thumbnail is surreal, it’s beautiful 🥲
I don't know who has played it, but Genshin Impact (for all its problems being a gatcha game), has some of the most hand-holding new player experiences I have ever had in any game, with some many prompts that come over as soon as the player is facing or has to do something new. And yes, the prompts force the game to pause, but allows the player to read the tutorial without worrying about the enemies, which actually helps the players understand the instructions without distractions. Also, Warframe (don't dislike pls) has some small clips of what each warframe ability does when you hover over them, this would be amazing on the subclasses abilities and aspects for new players. If Bungie was able to add something like this to the new player experience, I bet lots of people would enjoy Destiny without having to look for a video to explain everything to them.
Unskippable hand holding like this has made me completely drop games in the past (Genshin actually being an example of this).
@@Sagemel Tbh, the handholding would only happen in the new light quest, after that players would have the option to reread ols tutorials to refresh their memory, but the tutorials will only happen after the new light mission when unlocking mods and loadouts, but nothing else
@@SagemelYep, that makes two of us. It’s borderline insulting.
Yep I remember jumping in to Destiny 2 when The Witch Queen came out and it took about 30 TH-cam tutorials to learn all the different build mechanisms, currencies, collections, and even little things like, Where do I do the campaign, Where do I continue the campaign, How do I unlock the campaign, etc. And then they started switching all the classes to 2.0 and I needed even more tutorials to catch up for Lightfall and Final Shape. There definitely is no way to easily onboard new players to the game in its current state.
I've actually been thinking about the new light experience recently. Imagine if the new light campaign actually was structured like this:
- Different starting points based on character races that make sense (humans in cosmodrome OR edz, exos on europa, awoken in DC)
- starting mission and intro quest takes you to the different planets where you work along the planet vendor and one of the non-vendor main characters (Osiris/Saint, Mara, Mithrax/Eido/Spider), each planet/mission focuses on a different subclass, mechanic, subclass verbs, and champion type, rewarding all the light supers and two decent starting builds by the end
- Aspects and fragments bought from ikora not with glimmer but with basic quests/bounties that involve actually doing things related to the subclass you're trying to unlock aspects/fragments for (100 kills as a dawnblade, 15 kills with gunpowder gamble, create 10 overshields, defeat 50 weakened enemies, etc)
- Tower experience guides you from one vendor to the next while teaching you their core vendor principles (Zavala gives you an engram to take to rahool, rahool gives you a low powered weapon but glimmer and enhancement cores to go to banshee, banshee gives enhancement module and a higher power white weapon and teaches you to infuse before giving you a red border to take to ikora, ikora teaches you deepsight)
- vendors and playlists are unlocked linearly (learn to do strikes before shaxx reaches out to invite you to the crucible, make a name in the crucible before drifter takes interest in you for gambit)
- ritual playlist quests that walk through different modes and teaches the reward/pathfinder system which unlock higher tiers of content (strike quest unlocks nfs, crucible quest unlocks comp, comp unlocks trials, gambit unlocks gambit prime(ranked gambit to revitalize the mode??))
- patrol quest that introduces lost sectors and public events
- Ikora introduces the timeline with missions from red war, forsaken, shadowkeep, beyond light (which gives basic stasis), witch queen, lightfall (gives basic strand)
- New lore page that contains info on all characters and stories from the game so far similar to the old grimoire cards
- Hawthorne introduces clans and guided games at the end
- Past campaigns can be started from Ikora so as not to bloat the map immediately with a bunch of quests
- Have ONE page at the very end offering the Light and Darkness saga DLC to explore the past, or Frontiers/season content to blaze a path into the future
So after a couple hours the player:
- has experience with the core playlists and how the reward system works
- knows how to infuse weapons and increase power
- knows the different roles of everyone in the tower
- has a straightforward and narrative-focused path to progress all these things
- has met most of the major characters in the game thus far
- understands the basic concepts of subclass verbs and champions as well as basic game mechanics (motes, ball throwing)
- has aspirational goals (gain power to unlock nightfalls, trials, comp, raids, dungeons)
- knows where the reference material is if they want to dive deeper into what stories they have missed
- knows what they need to buy based on what they're trying to do in the game rather than the 30 different dlc packs in the store that give no context
Or they take the option to join the frontlines which would give them an intro quest at the start of frontiers, skip all of this, give them the basic subclass kits above, and throw you in the deep end to each yourself how to swim or let you quick-join your friends.
Or it could just be New Light > Red War > CoO > Warmind > Forsaken > etc and the game would actually make sense. Mind blowing, I know.
If they gave back all the content I bought, I might consider actually playing the game again at some point.
Or or hear me out bro, they could bring back the sunset campaigns and you can download each one separately to save space. No reason why a company of their size can’t do something that simple.
As someone who has convinced friends who have jumped on and then a week later jumped off this game, from their words, the new player experience is fine. What really needs to be refined is giving those players the answer to "why" they are doing these things. Why should I go through campaigns? Why should I do a dungeon? Why should I grind vanguard strikes? Why should I do PvP? And the number one thing I always got asked: What are pinnacles and how do I get to where you are? You don't get directed to raids, dungeons, nightfalls, or trials anymore. People don't understand what these next steps are. Reason why? Because these don't give you prompts when they start to become options. When you reach soft cap, it should show you what to do next. What is a soft cap? What is a hard cap? What is a pinnacle cap? How do you reach those? The finer details of this game need to be given explanations upon reaching them.
PREACH. My friend got me into D2 originally by showing me all the cool Halo stuff they added with 30th Anniversary. It worked, as I was slightly confused but still excited to play until I got forerunner. I kinda just sat there not really knowing what to do and just stopped playing after that. It wasn’t until season of the haunted that I finally understood what the endgame of the game was but that was after months of persuasion from my friend to keep playing and my own research. Even before, I tried the game before Beyond Light came out and still just didn’t get it. I’m glad I did get into Destiny but it took almost 2-3 years to do so thx to how lost you are as a new player
I've been around since D1 abs all that and I got a friend asking me if I could power level them and even I'm like, "bro I don't even know how..."
I mean the game does direct you into things like raids....thru the story.
Beyond light you see them talk about deep stone
Witch queen they talk about the pyramid ship. Etc.
There are reasons to do the main raid.
As for the pinnacle stuff honestly that flashing on the screen wouldn't do much people would just click off we know this happens that would be a waste.
Ya know what would be a waste?
Bungie tapping content creators to make videos to explain this stuff and them putting it on the website.
datto and spencer knowing each other is my favourite coincedence of my online scrolling this year
When you were talking about Zero Hour being so wildly early, it reminded me of the time way back when I had started, in Forsaken Era, and stumbled my way blindly into Shattered Throne. I was on discord with other people who were just as blind as me exploring the dreaming city for the first time. That's also how I found your channel. Man, this game's been a journey...
You missed the point where he logs off and then comes back only to be thrown, unwillingly, into the episode's opening mission and then the Final Shape opening mission; creating even more confusion
I'm a ten year veteran of this game and I finally got my girlfriend to try it with me right before Final Shape released and if I was incredibly confused I'm not sure how she felt. I had to explain to her how to use her powered melee because the prompt that tells you in the first mission was on screen for maybe milliseconds because she just so happened to press another button at the same time (not the powered melee button even). After killing the first captain, the game explains where the melee, grenade, and class ability icons are but they don't explain them at all. Especially class ability, since it never teaches you how to cast it nor what it does per class. I went through with her to complete the rest of the New Light campaign (I mostly watched and rezzed her if needed) but throughout it all there was rarely prompts. I remember her casting her nova bomb because the prompt told her to and ended up blowing herself up on thrall. We finished the rest of the "campaign" and went to the tower where she was given like ten different quests which as a veteran I could tell were mostly useless but to a new player it is completely overwhelming. After that there's no more prompts. The new light campaign has no ropes to teach, it simply throws new players on a dilapidated bridge and says "Hope you make it across :3"
They just need to slap the Red War Campaign back in. Feel like that intro did miles more for tutorial than what we have now
I'll be honest... That wont work anymore. We need a RED WAR STYLE campaign but its just difficult to squeeze into the story since every story currently in the game rn is DLC related.
34:55 i think the first mission for each campaign is free? Bungie trying to push people toward a sale instead of pushing them to the timeline to get them invested in the story first, smh.
I thought the exact same thing these guys really don’t give a damn it sucks to hear when you’ve bought the game like 5 times over and never play anymore
Playing Destiny like showing up to a party while it's already wound down.
The homeowner is starting to clean up and collect cans, his two best friends are sobering up playing Smash 64, there's someone occupying every sleepable spot - there's a pass out pile in the guest room, a couple of people are passed out on the living room futon, someone's passed out in the tub, someone made it outside but missed their Uber so they're passed out in the backyard. The sun is starting to peak up over the horizon. The cops came to answer a noise complaint hours ago. The vomit on the carpet is cold, the half-drunk drinks are warm, and everyone has already sworn to never drink again, and anyone still awake is looking at your case of beer like they wished it was Advil instead.
Funny as hell the New Player Guide in the timeline is less intrusive than every single other popup in Destiny history. We've been haunted by sublclass unlocks, eververse dogshit, and a myriad of other useless screens but God forbid we actually help the player for once.
I really don’t understand how a new player experience could be neglected like this. Doesn’t more players usually imply more revenue? So why would Bungie put such a roadblock in the way of getting completely new players to start playing and wanting to continue?
I'll never forgot how I didn't use my grenade for days, and my super? I didn't know that you could get it back without dying, so I simply didn't use it for even longer 😅
I must say though, this on-boarding is actually an improvement, except for when I learnt about subclasses, Ikora teaching me to be a void hunter lives in my memory forever, it felt so cool.
Despite it all, Years later, I'm somehow still here! This was a pretty interesting video!
I started a new account recently I can clearly see why the players dropping out arent replaced by new ones...
This new experience is why I decided to start my gf at D1, she wants to join me in Destiny and to experience the game I've loved for years, so when we get to D2, we're goin through the vaulted content on yt first, and going onto Shadowkeep forward. If Bungie isn't gonna make a well rounded informative introduction to this game, then I'll do it for her.
They really need to remaster D1 and tell players to begin with that before trying D2.
I love that Datto gives the benefit of the doubt that the new player would probably figure things out if they were "less distracted".
But no, they just get off.
I'm not being hyperbolic when i say the two people I tried to get into the game wouldn't make progress, or even play, unless I was on directing them.
I started playing during WQ, I spent so much time googling stuff, starting reddit threads, asking questions. I was having fun, but I had no idea how to progress, I didn't know that the green indicator meant my quest was on that planet or what the icons next to a planet's name meant; all games have a learning curve, but D2 has a learning cliff.
Not to mention you can track multiple quests at a time, so there could be multiple green indicators
All I’ll say is; Having an in game global chat with a second chat for questions would help a lot. Granted people behave.
This implies that the people will give correct information
@@jacobkern2060 Warframe has a question chat, sometimes they’re right, other times they’re wrong. A lot better than nothing.
It would be hilarious, but it would require constant moderation. The d2 community CANNOT behave itself normally 😂
@@gen8901i like the q&a chat cus i can kill time answering like where’s nidus or how do i get orokin cells or what the heck is helminth. this community and WFs community are like yin and yang. i don’t think i could trust D2 community as far as i could throw them even if i was superman with the chat. it will be a bad idea if they implement it. the chat mods are at the mercy of chatters, and idk if you remember the rampant nepotism that was going on that Rahetalius pointed out, but man, i BET something like that will rear its ugly head
Ohh the chat can brew up some drama. Warframe is known for this, and the moderator's quite open biases and agendas. They should just do better tutorials in-game and instead of punishment, REWARD vets for carrying new players? After all D2 is all about loot.
I remember when I first started playing D2 after not touching destiny for 5 years. I put on my sunbracers and was beyond frustrated when I wasn’t able to spam nades upon getting a melee kill. It was later when a friend told me that a solar grenade is a specific type of grenade on the solar class and not the general solar grenade lol. It was the many little things like this that made me grateful I had a friend to explain things to me.
I think Bungie needs to just make all older content free to all players or charge them like 50 bucks for everything aside from final shape.
Just include all previous expansions for free with the purchase of the latest. WoW has done that for years.
Something that confused me for the longest time when I started: The top weapon slot is called 'Kinetic', but there are other weapon types that go there. Similarly, the 2nd weapon type is called 'Energy', but that has no meaning anymore either. They really need to come up with other names for those 2 slots
Top slot is Kinetic, Stasis, and Strand Primary and Special Weapons, Energy slot is Solar, Void, and Arc Primary and Special Weapons, Power is any element Heavy Weapons...doesn't seem that difficult.
@@Sagemel It's less about difficulty in learning the weapon slottings and more about the fact that there never were Stasis and Strand weapons in that slot originally.
Before then, only Kinetic weapons existed in the top most slot, hence the "Kinetic" slot. Now that we have Stasis from Beyond Light (the first being Salvation's Grip in the heavy slot), Season 14 (exotic pistol Cryosthesia 77k), then Season 15 with all the Stasis weapons officially - not including all the official Strand weapons during Lightfall - It makes little sense as to why the "Kinetic" slot is still called this.
I've been playing since Beyond Light and have ended up calling them "Top Slot" and "Middle Slot" because of the distinction.
From a player who's been around long enough, you get used to it, but from an outside perspective, it doesn't feel fitting anymore.
Plus, Kinetic being top no longer matches with the other two slots: "Special" and "Power", which are allowed to be vague for energy weapons. Strand and Stasis (despite their placement as "Kinetic") sound just as elemental as the others.
To have "Special" weapons be called "Energy" weapons (when the heavy slot has energy weapons) fits to what Jeff points out.
Bungie is removing the words "Strength" and "Discipline" from armor stats after Episode:Heresy, and instead is simplifying them to "Melee" and "Grenades". While the weapon descriptions are of least importance on their list, they still should look into it eventually.
In fairness, the game automatically sorts the weapons to their respective locations, but it doesn't openly help to explain the naming scheme.
Yeah same, I remember being confused by Kinetic being both a slot and a type of damage, when other non-kinetic guns also went in that slot. Also, even as someone who's played for 2 years, I wish there was a symbol or something on each weapon showing which slot it correlates to. Usually Power weapons are easy to figure out as you just look at the ammo type, Heavy. But there's special ammo weapons in both the Kinetic and Energy slots, and Primary ammo weapons in both too; even overlap in weapon type, like shotguns, bows, breach-loaded GLs, etc that follow no rhyme or reason which of the two slots they go in. It'd be nice to visually see the slot symbol in places that aren't on your character, like in the Postmaster, or in the Vault
@ The guns point in opposite directions, to indicate which slot they go in
@@JeffKryger ohh, lol idk how I missed that 😅
when you were there watching Datto making the thumbnail
16:00 the legendary campaign gives you exactly what you proposed when you choose what difficulty to play
I have 140 hours in D2 and when I played I still REGULARLY got stuck mid quest due to no marker or direction. I may not have hundreds of hours but I was NOT brand new to the game and it happened a lot. It was one of my biggest pains with the game honestly. I wasted hours wandering around after having beat all campaigns up to Beyond Light.
This is the most upsetting thing about the game for us, the older players - we need to do like marketing sale campaign to friends to get them to agree to try the game. And as soon as you dont play with them - they just quit. Because there is NO GUIDENCE. People like how it looks, how guns shoot - but they DONT KNOW HOW WHAT TO DO.. And why they do it. And that the next question - "what expantion should i buy to have fun here?" This beautiful game is simply hidden behind the unclear introduction and new player guide.
Red War was just perfect to start, this is where it started for me, RIP,, this campaign has won my heart forever.
Thanks Datto for raising this important issue.
Being a new Destiny player is like going to buy a car for the first time, but you have no one else that knows anything about cars, APRs, application and administration fees or warranty's. You realize this is really exciting, but you weren't expecting all of this somewhat disappointing extra stuff. Once you actually experience the car long enough, you also realize insurance is hella expensive, you also have to retag the car every year, keep up with maintenance and make sure to consistently check fluid levels.
Having a car is 100% worth it, but you were absolutely blindsided by all the dumb shit you had no idea existed because no one was there to help guide you through the process, and now you're struggling to keep up with it. You'll eventually get there, but it'll take time.
just starting the video and can't wait. Me and a friend and fellow D2 player got a small group of friends into the game around Season of the Seraph / Lightfall and our mantra at the time was practically "at least one of us has to be with you at all times so we can explain the game and what you have to do". He even offered to go to one of those friend's houses as he was starting to help him get everything set up and get the ball rolling, so to speak. It was a fun time once we got going but the most endgame content we ever managed to do was running Dungeons with one or two of the new friends, and only ever Shattered Throne, Pit, Grasp, or Spire. Half of the time it just felt like me and the friend were recruiting a third fireteam member with a pulse so we could handle some of those activities haha.
Oof. One of my biggest gripes with Destiny 2 post-BL is the fact that there is no level or ability progression in the game. Recently replayed D1 and forgot how you would gradually unlock base-level abilities like your special jump, grenade, melee, super, etc. and then augment them down the line with their special effects. Very natural progression, whereas it appears from Spencer's experience the game is geared now towards grinding XYZ amount of materials (Glimmer) to unlock all new abilities.
Love your suggestion of tutorial videos for aspects and abilities, however brief they may be. As easy as it is to equip something and use it right away, that would be a lot more helpful than some lore junkie tidbit or high-resolution art of the aspect or fragment.
I started my Destiny journey with my son in vanilla d1. He eventually left in shadowkeep & tried to come back 4 yrs later in Lightfall.
He quit within a few days. He said it's too confusing. Also mentioned that pvp sucks so bad now so it's not even worth playing. I even tried to help him with direction but he still quit. Destiny 1 was so simple to understand and play.
A simple navigation screen with the free expansions in a "card format" indicating "do this first" with subcards for each dungeon and raid from that expansion era with notifications saying "difficulty expert" or "recommended for a full party of veteran players" would go a long way. Simple and easy to understand progression.
Imagine having a map that doesn’t zoom in or out.
And doesn't center on the player when opened...
The reason I want Red War back in the game, is that it was DESIGNED to drip feed mechanics and ideas into new players. Every mission was slowly pushing you to new weapons and subclasses.
As a D2 player who's introduction was quite literally: Log in, get to the farm, get dragged through whisper, then straight into levithan before even starting the 2nd mission of the red war, I can attest that starting d2 with an exotic quest with a timer and no markers was absolutely brutal lol. Luckily I liked the game enough and had plenty of friends that I stuck around for a long haul and got into day 1 raiding but damn was that a ROUGH start lmao. Tbf at the time Red war was very much still in the game, I just had crazy friends.
I had 5k hours on my 3 characters. I started a new account and couldn't believe how many exotic quests popped up when starting. I really enjoyed starting a new character. Weapon and good armor stat drops actually excited me where before I had it all so a great roll didn't matter.
I started playing destiny 2 in April on this year, and have around 1500 hours (I've been playing a lot lol) and I STILL had no idea the radar has different opacity/shades of red for enemies that are up or down
Something I feel like Destiny 2 would benefit from for teaching abilities and keywords is to borrow from Path of Exile 2's method that I'm seeing now as I learn that game. Every time I choose an ability, every option that I can pick always comes with a short video and narration to show me what it does and explains it to me. If there's any keyword I don't inherently understand, I can hover over it and it'll provide a definition of it for me. I feel like it'd be really easy to make 6-10 second video tutorials of the grenades, aspects, abilities, even the artifact perks so nobody has to just guess what a thing does or why they should use it. I even know they can do it because they release trailers for every new ability that you can only find by reading online articles.
OOOH this makes me wanna see a completely new Destiny player figure out a raid but I feel like that'd be a monster project. i think when Holtzmann was part of the designing of the original New Light experience he mentioned the "heavy ammo being presented" was part of a Lost Sector, sounds weird that they changed that! i totally get Spencer not feeling invested enough to even read the story timeline, it's like "why should i care right now". excellent video (love the editing detail of adding in in-game prompt that should've been there) and we truly take for granted how used we are to this game and all the info in it. user friendliness getting into a new game is an art by itself, while i appreciate the systems in Destiny this really opens your eyes to how new-user-not-friendly they are. 100% agree that having experience beforehand with the genre helps - just like if you played WoW you could most easily understand roles in FFXIV (I played very little WoW and was completely confused about Healer/Tank roles in FFXIV when I started - that's another wild new player experience lol funnily enough that story start for FFXIV is also a slog to get through and while better than it used to be, it's just as chaotic as what Bungie designed)
There was a team for one of the last couple Raid Races that was basically completely new to Destiny and had only been playing for about a month when said Raid came out, though they had a lot of team synergy and got assistance with some of the Destiny-specific nuances from long time players.
I feel if they put the time together to make a free campaign similar to the pacing of Witch Queen or Lightfall with 5-6 missions would help with the new player experience.
It's already something familiar to most people who play games and can be used to spread out the information in an organic way as well as introducing destiny at its best. They can also add some strikes or patrol exploration in between the missions to break up the pace. They don't even have to make a new campaign experience from scratch, they could reuse/repurpose the new light tutorial in the cosmodrome and shadowkeep campaign into one whole with of course some tweaks.
As long as the game immersive the new player and shows a way how to progress their character through all the systems. Right now, Guardian ranks, seasonal passes/content, campaigns and power level is all too overwhelming to front load, so every new player feels like their just doing random bs.
I bought D1 on day 1, I played all through that, all raids, bought D2 on release, moved to PC when possible and continued played here. Currently haven't really played actively since the story-part of Final Shape.
I would watch the heck out of a "multi-episode new player guide for Destiny". I'm 100% sure there is quite a bit of things I've misunderstood, misinterpreted or otherwise just messed up on my journey.
Honestly, aspects might be one of these "things" I've misunderstood. I started out by watching guides on them, and may never "really" have understood them.
Also, I may just enjoy Datto's way of explaining things. No-nonsense, direct to the point and not afraid of telling people "you should probably just don't do this, it's for the 1% of the 1%, and it's MAYBE 4% better in this specific situation"
Thanks! Then I won't spend 10 hours on that :D
Spencer! We love seeing him on the channel.
9:39 “Your characters never talks. “Character proceeds to talk. “Didn’t he just talk?” … “it’s him, your character, idk does he” beeeeeeeeeeep 🤣🤣🤣💀🏴☠️🪦⚰️
They could add rooms to the tower that serve as training areas. Like 1 room where you learn what abilities do and 1 that shows you what all the weapons do. Things like that would be nice.
This really highlights how much of a new light experience we have lost with the removal of The Red War. Nearly everything in the game except for literally only the prior narrative context for the Tower getting destroyed was explained clearly to the player. Genuinely the BIGGEST roadblock to getting new players into the game is the TUTORIAL, one that has had very VERY small changes since when it came out in Beyond Light. It is not at all an expansive or explicit enough for new players, especially those unfamiliar to the genre, and unfortunately it doesn't seem like any development regarding this experience is coming ANYTIME soon. The next expansion would be a great opportunity, but that would mean having to either simplify the entire experience which will not be as enjoyable for veterans, creating two different versions of the expansion's campaign which doesn't seem feasible, and/or making the expansion entirely free so that it is easily accessible for new players, which at this point seems impossible for Bungie to even think about.
It's a tough situation that I absolutely wouldn't wanna be in charge of solving if I was a game developer, but at the same time it's Bungie's own fault for making a decision as big as removing a very solid onboarding experience 4 years ago without thinking or caring enough about what would be put in its place, and continuing to neglect it and not even mention it as one of the game's major pain points for almost the entirety of those 4 years.
I'm shocked Dares of Eternity wasn't brought up (by the game). It's accessible to everyone and easy with a ton of enemies and simple version of mechanics (like shoot the enemy with the relic or stand in this area). The loot it gives is good and can be a decent segway into the weapon crafting system. The map is consistent across runs and Xur narrates what to do. It also has bounties and it's own vendor to help teach that mechanic as well. All these things make me think it's a good thing to introduce to new players, but it just isn't.
Man, I remember starting back in Arrivals, doing the old Arms Dealer strike, and thinking that the popups in the top right that said Cayde and Hawthorne when dialoge sounded were actually the names of the ghosts of the other two players.
The onboarding process has never been great.
So, as someone who was a solo player for years before I ever joined a clan or found people to play with, I can attest to there being a huge learning curve to Destiny - and I joined when there was a better new player experience. I legitimately feel like I didn’t even feel like I understood the gameplay loop until I was like 500 hours into the game, and that’s just insane! As someone with 6k+ hours I can still say that we desperately need better onboarding.
I started Destiny last year, maybe two weeks before TFS launched, and I can barely remember anything I did at the beginning, since my friend was trying to guide me through Riven's Wishes as quickly as possible to craft an Apex Predator. But something I vividly remember was having to look up online how to summon my sparrow, since either the game never bothered to tell me how or there was a popup that I missed or accidentally closed when I didn't mean to. I was halfway to Shaw Han in that section of the Cosmodrome with the ships (can't remember the name), hoofing it the entire way, before realizing that something was wrong and there had to be something I was missing.
This kind of thing seems more common. I’m a relatively new player, started around the middle of Lightfall’s lifetime, and the friends that had me get started jumped me right into content I now know is far too difficult. Frankly, they still do, sometimes.
Alongside that, I had numerous instances of hate-filled messages from random teammates while playing through some Strikes, Gambit, and Crucible, when I was just trying to learn things.
As a whole, it seems increasingly more common to hear stories about New Lights facing a very unwelcoming community, whether through toxicity, a false assumption of the New Light’s competence, or just the inability for veterans of the game to recognize that a New Light with 50 hours (or even 100 or more) can’t match the veterans that have played for thousands of hours.
Bungie failed the new player experience and they wonder why they can't get new players.
@@OogaBooga_ba_bongadongaDon't get me wrong, my friends are fantastic. They did have me run Prophecy long before I was ready to tackle a dungeon, but I'm pretty sure that was to get Apex Predator, which I was eventually able to craft (RIP one of my other friends who got the five red border AP's, but didn't get the pattern due to a mistake).
I don't really interact with the community because I have social anxiety, to the point I panic a little whenever I seriously consider LFG-ing (I don't have enough friends for a raid and they're not as active as me either). But the community doesn't come across as super welcoming. Everything I've heard about the Destiny community doesn't help either.
One of the biggest things that I will still see players struggle with is understanding when and how to use their different weapon types, there's already a bit of color coding in place so just having some kind of tutorial that reinforces "Red = Primary" Orange = Special" "Yellow = Heavy" could go a long way in mitigating the frustration of enemies feeling "too tanky" when you see somebody trying to kill a Yellow Bar boss tier enemy with their Primary Auto Rifle. (We could even see a moment of this where Datto was trying to gently guide Spencer towards using his Fusion Rifle on the Boss Wizard when he was struggling to bring the shields down.)
I feel like Into The Light was at least sort of an attempt at making some new player friendly content with Onslaught especially with the normal mode version, so I feel like it would be good to direct players into that playlist since there's actually a lot of valuable guns you can still get through that and it's something that lets you get used to some more base level mechanics without getting too complicated.
Dreaming City also needs to be highlighted more as a good starting space too since that's all still there, including some campaign missions to try out and a lot of secrets to explore and discover at your own pace, and all the weapons there are still viable since they were refreshed for Season of the Wish.
I think Zero Hour could honestly be a good introduction to end game content that rewards a still very good gun, but there should be some clearer labeling surrounding it that basically lets you know that this is gonna be more of a "mysterious high level side quest" that will intentionally have you exploring a lot of unknowns without much direction, and that you will want to be in a team of three for the best experience. (Maybe even set an expectation that you might not necessarily clear it on your first try as you're learning the mission more.)
Though I do agree it still shows up way too early, you at least want people to have a semi proper build set up (Which the New Light kits definitely try to help set up) and have people better understand the importance of the different ammo types and when to use abilities, I'd probably recommend most people start trying exotic quests after at least finishing Shadowkeep and Beyond Light.
I created a new account and did this a few months ago. The most shocking for me (aside from the sheer amount of important systems locked behind guardian ranks) was the Final Shape mission that early in the guardian ranks. Even as a veteran player, the new player experience was painful and obtuse.
I somehow persuaded my girlfriend to play the game, as she was feeling left out due to two of our friends also playing it with me.
And she enjoyed it but there’s so much to do and so much information (especially when it comes to story) that she just couldn’t keep up with, I even deleted my Hunter so we could play through the new light experience together fully. Just everything was too much, she didn’t last long and my two friends that also played slowly stopped playing as the final shape came along. I wish it was easier for new people to join the game but because of the 12 years of lore and story that exists it’s very difficult to catch you up fully.
They’re on the right path but still have a lot to develop when it comes to new light experience
I think it would be a good idea to get to play as one of the vanguard based on what class you picked and somehow warp that back into your regular role as the guardian. So you get a taste of how strong you could be
25:58 this happened to me in 2014 as a child figuring out fusions
the new destiny 2 video meta is putting movie references in your thumbnail
A few years ago I convinced a friend to play. I told him we could start together.
The day before he decided to jump in and give it ago. He was so frustrated... The final straw was going into a strike and having no idea what to do, being left by team mates.
He uninstalled before we got to play.
Last time I introduced a friend I had him stream to me and I guided him on discord.
"You can't make that assumption about every player," sums up a lot of issues with the New Light experience.
I went through it to reminisce prior to TFS and realized that if I was a new player, I would have dropped the game after a few hours because it never felt like catered to my experience.
Maybe at this point we just need solo instance tutorial side-quest areas with key characters to teach specific things (i.e. Vanguard - light powers, Drifter/Eris/Elsie - Dark powers, Shaxx/Saladin/Banshee - Weapons/crafting)? Then New Lights actually get taught and get to experience time with characters that they otherwise missed out on.
I remember I onboarded two friends into the game before Into The Light came out and wanted them to get into the game in time. They both play shoooters like apex and Fortnite and we play Roblox together a lot. One of my friends was a titan and he got the grasp of the game pretty well when it came to shooting guns and using abilities. The other was a warlock and he was pretty ass (can’t blame him tho tbh) cuz nothing was explained. The titan friend leveled up generally faster than the warlock friend cuz he just wasn’t rlly having as much fun. The titan friend had fun just using consecration and it was at this time rivens wishes were out, so we got him pyrogale. So I had a titan friend with a decent solar build with pyrogales and sunshot and I set both their builds up for into the light, it’s looking sweet. Into the light comes and the titan friend sees that, our warlock friend is now the same light as him. Because if u remember they jumped everyone up to the power cap. That disheartened my titan friend so bad that he just stopped playing. I explained to him how they do this from time to time and it’s not the first time, but seeing how the warlock friend basically matched his power level by doing half the work because of an update literally made him drift away from the game. I tell him to hop back in but he just says “what’s the point I’ll just get to ur level one day without trying”. It’s shit like that that affects new players and the destiny community as a whole. Just our time feeling worthless.
The killer is that there's a clear path to building onboarding if they wanted to do it.
Separate new player missions for each type - Hunters on Nessus, Warlocks on The Moon, Titans in the Cosmodrome. From there, an updated Tower tour. And then either go and play freely, or have a 'meditation chamber', where you can 'commune with the Light' and use Timeline Reflections to experience selected highlight missions and history. Start and end of Red War, killing Xol, meeting Osiris, etc. And you could add in a theater to watch pivotal cutscenes from the Seasons.
They COULD do it, but they've actively chosen not to.
Personally, I think a lot of the Bungie devs want to overhaul the new player experience but management won't allocate the resources needed for it, so what's in the game is what the devs slapped together and modify it over time. Pete and the boys wasted too much money and resources on cancelled projects which means less devs to work on the game, so I don't see an overhaul to the on boarding process any time soon, if at all.
See, Datto, silly boy, 34:40 you fail to understand that Bungie wants people to "get hooked" on the first mission and buy the expansion more than they want them to have a coherent story experience.
I struggled an insanely long time with anything melee-related in D2Y1, since it took for ever for it to occur to me that my regular melee was NOT bound to my melee cooldown... The game never told me that the charged and uncharged melees were separate things.
My recommendation for new players (assuming familiarity with FPS games, if you aren't then... well, I just can't recommend this game and Datto already has a good point) is pretty simply find some people to play with (this game is really intended to be social, however much solo players may hate that) and focus on learning a) the gameplay and b) what you enjoy about the game. Be that story, the loot, Strikes, Crucible, Raids/Dungeons, Gambit, WHATEVER, if there is something in this game that you enjoy, have a blast with it. Before getting any expansions, ask about which are worth getting and what they contain, story-spoiler free (loot and gameplay stuff is probably unavoidable at this point).
Don't get pretty much any of these except TFS (for now) unless they're on sale, but my personal recommendation for expansion-getting as of writing is:
1) The Final Shape (Overall best campaign, most recent content, great raid, great loot, Prismatic subclasses, so much to love. IMO the only expansion worth it on a full price tag, but that will likely change with Frontiers' release)
2) The Witch Queen (Mainly for the campaign, which is the 2nd best IMO. Raid is also pretty solid with some good loot as well)
3) Lightfall (While the story is nonsensical, Strand cannot be denied as something giving Lightfall some value. Root of Nightmares is also a simple, good raid with solid loot)
4) Forsaken Pack (15 Exotic weapons, most super powerful in their own way, plus the Shattered Throne Dungeon and Last Wish raid. If you want some of the best Destiny endgame content in the franchise's history, this is the pack for you)
5) Beyond Light Pack (STASIS AND THE CAMPAIGN ARE FREE. Loot is a bit outdated, Exotics are really hit-or-miss but this pack is worth it for the Deep Stone Crypt raid alone, IMO)
6) Shadowkeep Pack (Dungeon is lackluster, the Raid is hit-or-miss especially, even with updated loot, and there's really only 2 or 3 exotics here worth getting, and you can live without them. Don't buy unless you have everything above this)
7) 30th Anniversary Pack (Dares is free, the only paid thing you get is cosmetics, Grasp of Avarice and its mostly PvP-oriented somewhat out-of-date loot, and Gjallarhorn, which isn't necessary and IMO more niche than Divinity. Don't buy unless you have everything else, I'm dead serious about Shadowkeep's pack giving you more than this)
Note: I also considered the Dungeon passes in this ranking, though they do come separately. Only get them if you enjoy Dungeons and potentially grinding for their random loot, and do your own research into each Dungeon included in each pass before coming to your own conclusion.
This is fascinating to watch as a long time player
I just got back into Destiny for the first time since Witch Queen, so i decided to soft-reset myself by deleting 2 characters and committing to a single fresh Titan. I think the New Light stuff is fine for learning the game, and the basics of an FPS are left to the player to understand. The buildcrafting has changed since i last played (charged with light, elemental wells etc.), and I actually found the new stuff like Armor Charge, Frost Armor, and other stuff to be easier to understand. My one thing i wish the game did better when starting a new character was to give more QUESTS. Its difficult sometimes to understand what gear will level you up, knowing the difference in reward tiers, knowing soft cap vs power cap. Overall, im having fun but you really need a friend to help guide you through it. Maybe offer a bounty to experienced vets to guide a player for a special title or exotic/shader/ship that completes pnce the new player accomplishes a certain amount of stuff.
D1 startup was the same. You have to figure it out. I didn’t figure it out until I discovered people were making videos on TH-cam about Destiny and it really helped. One guy I remember was called Datto. His videos were helpful.
Datto still has some of the best Ad reads on TH-cam. Thankyou for putting effort into them so they don't just feel like they're interrupting the video with something that I'm probably not gonna engage with but will happily listen to the ad instead of skipping till its done. This is especially appreciated since a lot of ads now adays are just low quality garbage with horrible ai voices that barely try to sell you on the product but are more than happy to waste your time or believe LOUD = engagement.
Worth mentioning. Make sure to play the introductory witch queen campaign as early as you can. It unlocks a huge system called weapon crafting. I’ve had friends not be able to collect red border frame weapons because they have not unlocked weapon crafting
Another thing bungie could do to get new players is to work on their reputation of extreme greed. Thanks to Aztecross and massive streamers like Asmongold, some ordinary gamers, and moist critical, the mainstream gaming community and internet know that bungie is greedier than Mr. Krabs.
If new players want to get all the content but spend the least amount of money, they’re going to have spend 100$ for the current dlc and seasonal content, 70$ for the legacy edition, and 60$ for all of the dungeons. Not to mention another 80$ if they’re on PlayStation which is insane since this is a F2P game owned by Sony. As you said, there are sales but they are occasional. Then they’re going to have to spend even more money when the 2025 dlc comes out.
Aztecross’s video also showed potential customers that bungie consistently invents new scummy ways to nickel and dime their fans year after year. When the 2023 state of the game came out, Charlie showed his massive audience that bungie is lazy when they were whining about having to do the bare minimum and update the armor for the F2P players since they couldn’t lock it behind a paywall.
that "reputation of extreme greed" is quite well deserved and probably near irreparable for a lot of people at this point being frank here, it's been abundantly clear through their behavior and the way they have swindled players, along with how reticent they are to throw players a bone basically ever, and the insistence on keeping as many transactions in the game as possible with as little time investement into their content as possible, yea i'm sorry but for many players, there is just no recovering that reputation
Weh you have to buy the content to play the game. I do agree that legacy stuff should be cheaper but saying 'extreme greed', 'new scummy ways to nickel and dime their fans year after year'. You sound like an idiot. You gotta pay the people who make the game. Eververse doesn't pay for the game. Expansions and DLC pays for the game. If they wanted to nickel and dime us they'd make you pay a monthly fee like FFXVII and WOW do.
@@xazz What you get when you start in FFXIV is substantially more content, and it is not marketed as a hybrid F2P game, its marketed as an MMO, with the base game and first two expansions being a completely free trial, that's hundreds of hours of content. Not to mention, as others have noted, FFXIV doesn't have the baggage of the insane monetization practices nor studio controversy Bungie keeps falling into.
@@xazz dude the whole point of the eververse is to make money for the game lol why do you think everything in there costs silver??? The expansions pay and yet the devs are still being laid off?? almost like the expansion size or quality or release reception DOESNT MATTER when the game that calls itself a f2p feels more like an Ad for the latest expansion instead of a playable experience. playing VOG 300 times isnt going to appeal to someone who doesnt even know how to equip mods on their armor. For someone who plays the game and puts money into it regularly you may have convinced yourself ur "putting food on the table" for the devs but in reality they get paid the same paycheck whether the expansion is free or not...
requesting more Spencer streams please? first gambit, first dungeon, first raid, wii sports
finally my opinion on the new player experience is here
Was introduced by some friends and tried to figure it out and play with them. Let me tell you. It took me about a year or two to finally ge help from TH-cam to figure out how to do stuff like quests, missions, abilities. Etc. Thank God for TH-cam vids to help.
6:45 it’s almost like bungie stripped most of the classes identity other than super/ exotics…
Loved the video. I’m curious if you watched Jez’s video of Amy playing (I would assume so)? Obviously, a lot of the points made were extremely similar and the new player “mistakes” (things they missed/weren’t explained at all) are also strikingly similar. Hopefully bungie is able to do something to draw in new players and make the experience better. I’ve personally had a very difficult time getting anyone to play the game after I say I spent $120 (when stuff was on sale) to get all the most recent content to play and it’s also around $80 per year (for expansion/season/dungeon key)
Great video Datto, I hope someone at Bungie see this and makes the new light experience better. The game is in a low point, but I still love it and don't want to see it die, we need new blood.
I think the tutorial should include a section where they're locked in a room with some dregs, and then forced to acknowledge blue pop ups about the abilities in order of their grenade, melee, and class ability, by using each ability
as far as build crafting, I think that needs to just be something you figure out, aspects and fragments should have a tutorial as far as just "this is what an aspect is, this is what a fragment is" and then that's it, same for the other systems like perks and mods, they should just tell the player what they are, and then players themselves can figure out synergies.
I also think hot take, that Destiny should actually start you at Power level 0 and I actually think each destination should contain different level ranges, and the new light quest should be like the vanilla campaign, where you unlock the destinations all the way up to paid content, sort of like warframe's star chart, the progression through the star chart in warframe serves as an elongated form of tutorial through experience, and if destiny had something similar, new players would have guidance, in their "power grind" up to the power ceiling before you have to pay for content
One thing i like about Warframe over D2 is how the weapons, especially mid to late game, practically feel like additional abilities. Exotics and perks that deal in keywords help in D2, but they still almost always feel weaker than a good old fashioned grenade and punch, and inversely to Warframe, this feeling increases in the endgame, when most legendary primaries feel like peashooters. Doesn't help you're HEAVILY incentivized to ration special and heavy ammo.
Hey bro stick through the monetization drought of January. We still out here brother.
I started the game about a year and a half ago, currently around 1500 hours(eek, I know,) and I just jumped right in. I had almost zero understanding of how stats affected my abilities, how different subclass aspects influenced gameplay, how to use certain combos to my advantage, if weapon perks were even important, how progression worked, what my goal was. It was miserable, but after grinding through the hard shit it was somewhat okay. The game is so unintuitive that I didn't realize crucible was a game mode until I hit almost 300 hours in the game. Weapon and engram focusing wasn't explained... AT ALL. Build crafting was something i had to learn about exclusively through youtubers. The game is not friendly to new players at all. It's no wonder our player count is so low. Even given the lackluster content that's been happening recently, new players simply can't understand the game and as such, will just stop playing. Not to mention the fact that more than half of the game is locked behind seasonal and expansion paywalls that add up to well over 150 dollars. It's sad how this game has fallen into disrepair. I love the game more than any other but the current state of it is breaking my poor gamer heart💔
To all the new guardians, get away while you can, there’s plenty of better games out there
The list of mmo shooters with this good of a gun feel is about 1 entry long (Hunt showdown is a completely different genre, so are hero shooters, and fallout 76.. Let's not kid ourselves)
@@azyrael96or just play a different type of game altogether. yakuza, helldivers, i would honestly and truly recommend halo 5 firefight as a better use of time than d2 pve rn
Nah, d2 is a good game. Tired of the "d2 is terrible" whining coming from people with hundreds of hours who are gonna log in tomorrow.
@lastwymsi thousands of hours and won’t log in until act 3. it’ll probably be the same type of slog and this’ll be the straw that broke my back.
@@cwj2733 Yakuza and helldivers sure, but I wouldn’t suggest halo 5, that game is garbage. Try modded halo, things like ultimate firefight.
Some new things D2 needs:
1) UI facelift and major pop-up fix
2) New light campaign that ties the players into the definitive d1 - red war experience
3) Free dlc missions
They NEED to make it so that at the release of every new expansion the current oldest paid expansion becomes free forever. It wouldn't completely solve this problem, but it would surely help ease new players in and give them direction if they have some expansions (depending on when they start). This would also help get new players at least a little invested into the game and surely would have to be better than giving them random ad popups for the newest expansion...