Here's my take on weapon crafting: when the weapons are good (like those in og onslaught), people don't mind the absence of crafting because grinding those weapons feels rewarding. When the weapons are bad/unremarkable (such as in this episode), crafting at least have something to grind for, i.e. the weapon pattern. This episode, we have both unremarkable weapons AND no crafting, so people have literally nothing to to grind for at all
Genuinely. And newer loot needs to be better than stuff we’ve had for years. Like the bar for HC’s seriously can’t still be Rose, Palindrome, and Austringer (all of which were in Witch Queen…)
@@broderickfoster2107I see you said “new loot should be better than what we’ve had for years” and that’s power creep now I’m not saying that’s bad by any means but with the complaints now about people not being able to use their old loot kinda almost contradicts that
this might be the first smart take i've seen on the issue. personally, i would be fine if crafting was removed from the game, as enhancing and focusing weapons is a great middle ground. but the idea of still having somewhat of a grind even for bad weapons via crafting does make sense.
@@mrsmi1ey for sure. I think if weapon crafting was going to be this big it should’ve stayed for seasonal/ episodic weapons. Once you brought in raid weaponry it made the Loot chase in those basically useless
I mean to a certain extent, we want that, right? By QA, I assume you mean quality assurance, so we do want the community to be the final QA test. We don't want Bungie to ignore what the community is saying, and for us not to be any kind of QA for Bungie, that would have to be true. So we do want that to a certain extent.
For all I know I think they hinted at something involving Lubrae, Rhulk’s planet. But other than that, everyone is just holding out for a new arc to latch onto.
I mean that was always obviously going to happen. People like Datto insisted that ‘No bungie wouldn’t put resources away from Destiny! It’s their cash cow! Their only source of income!’ but they made the fatal mistake of assuming Bungie weren’t a hilariously overly confident company who think everything they touch is gold. Though in their defence, why wouldn’t they? Even when Destiny releases slop people will lap it up 😅
Crazy it's like laying off large chunks of your staff instead of taking responsibility for profit loss at the top down results in a demotivated skeleton crew who must work on a continuously evolving game with nowhere near the manpower leads to a worse player experience.
The people who were laid off weren’t essential workers. Concept artists, community managers, diversity initiatives. All fat and bloat not needed for game development.
@@iponce2and the suits that take responsibility and can take hits for everyone on the ship are remembered and beloved in cases. You already know I’m about to mention Iwata
My issue with the “week over week” vs “everything all at once” is that Bungie promised these episodes to have more content and cutscenes to give you a stronger story. So when I complete the ENTIRE story for what was originally intended for 3 months in the span of 40 minutes (give or take) that doesn’t deliver what we were promised which makes me not trust Bungie with what they say moving forward. Im not expecting a DLC level story, but they promised more than seasons and its the same format just now you have to wait an extra 5 weeks before the next section of story.
I think it exposes how little story content there truly is in these seasons/episodes. The little story content would have been stretched out week to week and padded with "do X waves of onslaught" or "do X laps of tomb of elders" which is just padding/busy work. For me, re: everything all at once, I would have loved it if crafting and the power grind was not added as well. After these last few years/months, I was really looking forward to basically logging in week after week to buy the red border and log out. I know, I know, not ideal for anyone but me there, but still.
either model is flawled when the activities that we have to do between story beats are exactly the same. this change is pointless when nothing that we do feels substantial or makes us attatched to what is being told to us. I don't expect a different activity for every week of a season, but what they have now (actually, for years) is a horrible way to build a narrative in a videogame. How long have we been playing seasonal content where the story reward is just unlocking a cutscene/dialogue that just explains things to us instead of making us feel like the one that made progress towards an objective?
@@chrissturges8952 You're 100% right. During week 1 of Revenant, I loaded into the City hub, was listening to all the NPC dialogue. And then out of nowhere, Eido is like "Thanks for all the hard work you've been doing rescuing these Eliksni!" when I hadn't even loaded into Onslaught yet, I was literally still in the room getting the infodump from Variks and Mithrax. That, right there, told me "They expected us to go do onslaught for a week but then cut that step out."
And to make matters worse when this episode dropped the dialogue for most the missions was missing and bugged so most people missed it and couldn't go back to listen to it again
Its the quality. Not the lack of time gating. People wont mind doing it all in one go if its actually quality stuff. 1 hour of boring lost sector complexity story is not it
In this case it is quality and quantity. Sorry to say this to all our Bungie / Destiny defenders. But 1h content for a new seasonal story is just miserable.
Exactly my problem with Revenant. Echoes had imo a long story but a boring one. Revenant has an interesting concept of a story but its just to short. The story content for Act 1 and 2 felt like they were the 1st week of the story (they felt more like an introduction into the acts). Echoes atleast had some.
I HIGHLY doubt anything in Frontiers will be like a Metroidvania. These are the same people who kept calling Contest/Challenge of the Elders a rogue-like activity.
@@ZachPlum I agree. It's all stuff in the game already. Opening certain chests on Europa needs a "key" which is really just killing an enemy nearby. It's lame and completely uninteresting.
I like they way The Division 2 handles crafting. You can spend mats from dismantled weapons to try and get the roll you want on a specific weapon as long as you have the blueprint AND you can swap out any one perk/attribute as long as you've collected that perk/attribute off a previous weapon.of the same type. It also helps that that game showers you in loot.
Spot on about the weapon crafting. They backed themselves into a corner. They “created patterns” that the community came to expect, so now ripping it away feels doubly bad
Division 2 has a good system. The game showers you in loot, and what you don't use can be broken down into upgrade materials for upgrading the stats of something else. Max stat rolls can be added to a library and put on other pieces in the same slot, talents can be swapped on most things... it's a very flexible system, and it encourages buildcrafting. If I think "Hey, build X is good, but I want to try Y", I can easily farm for the core pieces of the build in an evening, and then make progress fine tuning my gear's stats, and maxing out the rolls.
Having the “Shiny’s” in Into the Light onslaught actually made me play the game and grind. It was the first time in years when i actually got excited (genuinely) for a random weapon, especially if it was a role i wanted. Honestly just bring this mechanic back- allow crafting, but the weapon pursuit be for shinies that can only drop from the activities allows for people to feel excited
With weapon crafting, I’d rather it be in the game then it not. Sure, the explosion of joy when you land that rng 5/5 roll is amazing. But being in the pits of despair and quitting an activity because you’re banging your head against a slot machine (vs chill inhibitor before weightgate being discovered) sucks and is disrespecting player time. It’s not my job to figure out how to make weapon grinding fun, but I’d rather a consistent weapon acquisition experience than the inconsistent peaks and valleys of rng
I ended up quitting IB completely for a long time when i was chasing a Time-worn Spire for the whole year leading up to the release of Witchqueen trying to get a roll with Iron Grip (this was before Piece of Mind came along). Not a single drop with it, I would've taken 1/5 roll. Needless to say it really killed my drive to play IB, and only this last one that happened was when i finally got back into it, but i couldn't even fully commit anymore.
My friend went 407 Luna’s Howl’s in onslaught before getting the god roll. I got it within 10. By the time he got it he was mentally dead. Rng that bad just shouldn’t be a thing in a game that demands 40 hours a week with no overtime pay.
honestly same. the most joy i've ever felt was realizing i hit fabled in comp and suddenly getting luna's howl. that lasted like an hour. any good roll i've "grinded" for has been the relief of "oh thank god i can move on to the next thing"
The lack of weapon crafting is even more frustrating because they decided to remove engram focusing within the same season and the tonic system wasn't anywhere near the ease and effectiveness of the attunement system introduced in ITL. Also, what we we really need is a hybrid system for crafting so there can still be a chase but also allow for a deterministic way to get desired rolls. Crafting needs an updated version that takes into account the random roll chase not exclude it entirely. This way hopefully both camps get what they want out of the weapon chase.
I'd honestly be okay with crafting being treated way more like a long term grind, like if we could only craft combinations we've "found" as drops so there's still a chase for finding the "godroll", but we don't have to fill a vault with 5 other copies of the same weapons just because some of the other perk combos looked neat. Either that or treat it way more like bad luck protection and increase the amount of needed deepsight progress to like 100 (Arbitrary number but you get the idea.) but then have every drop count towards progress so it's more like something you gradually build up as you chase a specific roll. (Got a specific roll after 5 drops? Great you're done. Still don't have it after dozens of drops? Don't worry you'll get it eventually.)
In anime we would call these episodes “filler”. They don’t really build to a bigger thing and are used to give time for the creators to make the next arc in the series
I literally compared saints whole existential crisis a “filler subplot” in a different comment section one time lol. Like literally what’s the difference in him before and after. At least the fanatic and variks stuff is a bit interesting.
How did Bungie think we'd react to opening unpaid community QA positions?? Like "wow that's so cool I'd love to apply! can we get more layoffs before the end of the year??"
@@84m30well i definitely understand them not wanting to jump into it cause Mactics did and was treated terribly by the wf community, definitely set a bad precedent for other d2 creators to try wf even if the game is good.
@ oh from what I gathered he did enjoy the game, but he got a bunch of hate from the wf community that made him burnout and almost quit the game if his twitter is to be believed. very sad to see honestly
I like how they said they couldnt expand vaults because the servers couldnt handle, then theyve expanded it twice, created weapon crafting to avoid expanding it any more, removed deepsight weapons for future content, and now they're back to having to solve the vault problem. Bungie's developer philosophy is to kick the can just far enough down the road that its hard to see, then they just keep creeping closer every day to the can they kicked so they can kick it again. They never actually pick the can up and throw it away so we are done with the trash entirely.
@@beeman4266 Well yeah, I don't think anyone is surprised by that statement anymore, but that shit isn't going away. The are actively de-prioritizing dealing with said debt. I'm not saying it's a simple matter, far from, but it's hard to give them sympathy when it's a corner they painted themselves into.
I think people are mad about having everything for the seasonal quest at once because we realized genuinely how little content there is. If there are 15 quest steps and 8-10 of them are to speak to a vendor, people realize how little is actually in the game. Also if episode 3 isn’t Xivu Arath I may lose my mind.
What's so strange about the episodes is that, especially considering the logic supplied in this article, is that I don't feel like I'm cleaning up stories that feel relevant in a Post-Witness world. These three antagonists (one of them being entirely unknown to most of the playing community until the Episode) were given a magical plot device that lets them magically manipulate things in their favor for seemingly very little reason. It's like the Triforce but instead of being given any reasoning to why and how Link, Zelda and Ganon keep getting their parts of it, these Echos were nothing more than the Traveller sneezing and these three figments of magical snot globs just conveniently landed on the lap of three different figures that like making problems on purpose. I would've been _far_ more satisfied if the narrative was "Hey look, we got the Witness. Universe is saved. Lets do a lap around the System and clean up the few freaks hiding in the crevices so we can move on to bigger things". A victory lap, basically, of riding high on killing the big bad and stomping out/resolving/making peace with the last few antagonists that _we know about clearly in the game_ would've made the rather low stakes and frankly dismissive nature of some of these stories feel more reasonable and fitting. The Echoes plot device just feels weak.
For sure. No MacGuffins were required for a clean up the solar system approach to this year of story. Obviously they're doing MacGuffin-y stuff with the Echoes like addressing Mithrax's Nezarec sickness, etc, but man, I was just hoping those plot lines would evolve a bit more naturally, using things that aren't brand new cure-all magic mumbo jumbo. But I don't know why I expected that. Leading up to TFS, we had our guardian spot four spots on Savathun's wings that we then somehow realized was a Wish (SIGH), leading to us making deals with ghost dragons, rescuing ghost dragon eggs, and learning about her baby daddy for no real reason. The more magicky Destiny gets, the less interest it generates in me. "What magical thing will change the game for all of five minutes THIS time, and we'll then NEVER revisit the potential of the power these things provide ever again? Blinders on, people!" A grounded Destiny in the face of paracausality is, and always has been, the best Destiny, imo.
@@kajus As much as I enjoyed season of the wish's story I do agree with you about how it's a horrific example of bungie's dementia with seasonal stories. We collected like 9-12 ahamkara eggs which we gave to Mara and then we have had no mention of them again. Are we ever going to see them hatch or has bungie just forgotten about them?
Each episode so far has felt like a prologue instead of an epilogue. The Final Shape *was* the conclusion and the post campaign stuff was the epilogue. Each episode is the prologue to the next phase of the game.
I like dropping everything at once, but just walking to one npc then going to talk to the same npc on holophone or whatever straight after felt like shit.
2:38 "What was the vision behind taking the tonic and not getting the weapon?" The vision is...Destiny players want the traditional "looter" feel of "kill enemy, item drops, OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG," forgetting that...that's LITERALLY not how RNG works, and that little scenario I just cited is about .1% of how RNG works, and is NOT worth defending like it's sacred. In order for that to be a viable thing to protect, you need MOUNTAINS of good loot, AND a way to convert loot you don't need/want into loot you DO need/want. And Bungie is trying to make that vision happen, regardless of how they split the playerbase with undercooked systems, which should've been nailed down after half this franchise's lifespan, let alone scrambling to figure out 10 years in. But yes, as you said...until things are actually WORKING PROPERLY...no real conversations can even take place. I guess there needs to be a Bungie Q&A Roadmap: Prologue: Preview first...
Here's an idea: have crafted weapons. Cannot be enhanced. Shinies are introduced with double perks. If the gun is shiny, it can be enhanced This imo solves both problems. If you want the perfect roll, you can craft it. If you want a better perfect roll, you have that chase for the perfect enhanced
Doesn't need to be shiny. Should just be crafted doesn't get enhanced, random drops can, gives a reason to grind. But yes, also have shiny versions too
I just want there to be some reasonable form of backup/progress for the loot chase. As it stands right now, you could farm for a week straight and if you don't get the drop you want then you've made the same progress as someone who didn't play at all. Give us something like weapon focusing xp: Everytime you dismantle a specific weapon, you get a small amount of xp towards that weapon. Once that xp meter is filled, you can select perks and the next drop of that weapon will be guaranteed to have those perks and the xp meter empties to zero. Make the xp cap super high if they're desperate for people to farm/grind, but at least I would feel like I was accomplishing something while I'm endlessly focusing Iron Banner engrams for Tinashe's Mastery
I quit recently without even deciding to. It was a strange feeling when i realized i should uninstall to save storage space simply because when i get the itch to play D2 i QUICKLY remember how broken the game is and how id rather play something that feels like im the customer instead of a frustrated QA intern who has to sacrifice my free time just to participate at a terrible job...
We need crafting for most weapons, BUT have the chase for weapons that drop like the shinies from in to the light. A balance of both systems would be nice
@@timothymoran202Dude what the hell are you smoking Spending 60+ engrams for a archons thunder only to never get rimestealer headstone is not fun or special. That's how you burnout your player base and make them feel like they're wasting their time.
They need to bring back weapon crafting. The activities are ok for a bit, but they're not good enough to grind endlessly with pure rng. Removing Crafting has removed my drive to grind.
The vision for tonics was that they literally hit copy/paste on the attunement system from into the light, since they saw that everyone loved that update, this episode is (or at least started with) as much of a carbon copy of it as they can make. Attunement was never a 100% chance to get the weapon you attuned to (iirc it was around 50%) so they made tonics work the exact same way, just now as an item you had to craft and manage a timer for, figuring that since people enjoyed ItL, they’d love tonics.
10:16 Reset day doesn’t mean anything anymore. All it really means is stuff (weekly raid, dungeon, nightfall) changes and Xur goes away for three days. That’s it. My clan mates and I used to look forward to Tuesday evening to go do the new hotness each week. I was never in favour of the ‘gimme everything day one’ plan. Make weekly reset mean something again.
Because what about when those weapons are really good and only some people happened to accidentally keep them in their vaults. Crafting is so much better because you can re-obtain rolls that you didn’t keep due to their state at launch, which were later removed. The meta is wildly unpredictable in this game so we as players deserve to have a way to keep on top of it. I actually despise the anti-crafting freaks.
How many crafted weapons are meta in PvP? I'm curious, but I also just wanna poke the bear that roared into the void. Even though there was some good that came from it. Now Bungie has to figure out how to dial that back. I never wanted crafted weapons, but here we are.
@ but I do play PVE, and time and time again, players, particularly those who aren’t completely in sync with the META, are forced to pick between choosing certain rolls, or even chasing certain weapons, due to how they are at that given time. Some obvious facts here: 1. The META changes 2. We only have a finite number of weapons we can keep at any time 3. Weapons often become unobtainable after a certain amount of time in this game With all of this into account, crafting is the best way around this. It’s either: 1. Keep crafting how it is and even make more weapons craftable 2. Keep the META the EXACT same for the rest of the game’s lifespan, and NEVER remove sources of obtaining them I think we can both agree the first option is much more feasible, yes?
@@Alex-ug9wx I asked because there was a time I played PvP fairly often. Crafted weapons could fill a slot, for a reasonable roll. And yes, there's no reason to NOT make more. I would think going forward random rolls will become the focus again though. I always just played with my favorites, typically between a dozen or so weapons. My goal was consistency, not playing into what was good at the time. I'd find a way to win. My point - if there aren't any mentionable meta crafted weapons, I'm sure there are, then it's more about filling a weapon slot if you're a sweat.
We're literal Gods, the loot is feeling stale (crafting or no crafting) and the game is broken to hell and back with each patch that's added. I feel bad for the devs because clearly the layoffs have had a severe effect on the health of the game, shifting resources from creating new content to damage control.
This "new" episode model is pretty much the same as the seasonal model they've been running for years. This isn't some new issue that came with the layoffs. You could argue that it's attached to the dumbass executives that remain after all these failures though.
@@thegodhimself5554it does though, abilities and the powercreep that came with prismatic has made guns way less important. You can do full raids without any player firing a single bullet *much* easier than you could a couple years ago. Even for casuals, abilities just do more. That’s okay for some people’s power fantasy, and I enjoy using abilities, but it makes my guns feel less impactful.
@@div3345 personally I feel like our abilities is what we should be using more. We’re immortal champions of the light who also have access to darkness we shouldn’t be relying on guns. Maybe it’s just the Titan in me talking but abilities should be the focal point imo. Not guns. To me guns should j be the cherry on top of the build
4:11 my answer to this is that i like playing the game and gunplay enough to get the patterns, but not enough to deal with rng nonsense for mid weapons. I will bother dealing with rng for actual good weapons.
Crafting is an objective improvement over any previous Destiny loot system simply because Destiny does not give enough good loot. “Any drop matters” in RNG for a microsecond, until the single weapon drop is another piece of shit. They are fundamentally misunderstanding the problem and so are the streamers who play this for a living. 3:09
My guy, crafting made every drop from seasons irrelevant. Its one of the reasons interest in loot died, this is not an opinion its a fact. The numbers speak
@@Danil_JRK”the numbers speak” yeah, we’re back to 17 layers of busted RNG and player counts drove off a cliff. My “here’s how much you played” email from act 1 said I played 4 onslaughts. If I can’t actually hunt the 1 or 2 weapons I want, and I can’t guarantee I would even be able to get a good roll on them, and instead I’m getting 3-5 random pieces of utter garbage every time I complete an activity, why would I care? Iron Banner literally was not dropping loot and all they did was put it in the known issues. Tonics don’t work properly, they’re only realizing it’s a stupid system when we’re in the back half of the season. If the weapons had patterns, I’d have at least played to get them. Who knows, maybe when they decide to do another wild meta swing they would be useful. Now it’s just a mountain of crap that’d take up vault space that they also have no sense of urgency to address. So I’ll catch up on my backlog of other games instead. I fundamentally do not understand people who say that sitting at a slot machine and pulling the lever is the core appeal of Destiny, it’s just such a hollow way to look at a game. I never played this game more than post Witch Queen, where they actually seemed like they were interested in providing tangible goals to work toward.
@@Danil_JRKWhat numbers? Player counts dropping even lower? That must be why i changed from acquiring every weapon pattern in echoes to literally nothing in revenant.
@@Alcatraz760 so do you agree with what i said or what? You proved my point Players base is dropping and interest in the game is dead. Destiny has aleays been a joke in the eyes of the gaming community.
"Why do you need the patterns for weapons you aren't going to craft because they're not that good" Because a couple times a year Bungie revises perks and entire weapon types and it can make bad weapons good and good weapons bad, and since there will never be a meta where every weapon is viable. If you're going to take content away that rewards specific gear then you need a means by which to futureproof. There are a limited number of ways to get weapons from vaulted seasons and even less ways to focus perks on weapons from vaulted seasons (RNG on top of RNG). There's a wide variety of options somewhere in between terrible RNG and crafting. Tonics was one of the options, but tonics are a bad system because of how convoluted it is, especially in comparison to the the focusing system they had already made during Into the Light. If Bungie really wants to make buildcrafting and unique builds a part of this game , having the ability to modify perks of any given weapon at any given time is **required**. Otherwise, we're saying perks don't actually matter and we might as well just go back to the vanilla weapon system, and say weapon rolls aren't actually a big deal - they're just a way of making people feel better about getting nothing for populating activities they'd otherwise prefer not to do. Additionally, chasing weapon patterns during a season of mediocre weapons is still more engaging than just instantly dismantling all weapons and having nothing to work towards.
My issue with the Maya Sundaresh part is that her Echo of Command was part of the Witness (meaning the Witness had this power and even saw the Witness use said power at times) but we were able to stand up against it. Why does hers have an effect on us if we were able to overcome the Witness's Echo use??
What they need to do is every time you dismantle a weapon, those rolls/perks get added to the craftable one. So that way you can craft the one you want, and eventually over time you can get all the perks to craft the GOD roll you want. Makes the chase worth, you don’t waste your time if you didn’t get the best rolls, as you will have unlocked enough to craft it. They also need to add in extra tier of the weapon like the uber version, similar to brave, but when it drops it has all the perks and you can select what you want on the fly, giving you additional chase if you desire or that OMG moments if it drops. This keeps you from dumping a ton of items in your vault to review later, but just adds to the craftable options, and you can reshape the weapon you have with the newly unlocked perks.
4:10 I like to grind for patterns because they allow me to go back and recraft different perk rolls until I find a combination I like. I dont just always follow the "meta" and enjoy theory crafting for myself. Also, weapon archetypes and perks get re-tuned. Being able to go back and re-craft a perk that got buffed onto a weapon is nice. Crafting weapons also gives me something tangible to grind towards, whereas getting rng drops always feels like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I understand that crafting takes away a lot of the excitement for weapon grinding, but I think there's ways to have both. Have special "shiny" seasonal weapons drop that have double perks and triple barrel/magazine options. Allow them to have a masterwork be selected one time on them, and make them have an entirely unique look or shader to them. Give the players something unique and cool, but also worth grinding for. Otherwise, we will just want to go back to grinding activities waiting for weapon patterns to drop.
I think the best way to settle the rng vs. Crafting debate is to just do both. Have the weapons be craftable, but also have shiny ornaments that you can only put on random dropped versions. People who want to guarantee that they get their 5/5 can just craft it, and rng people get to flex their super rare shiny god roll
This is never gonna work because everyone who plays this game, even if it's 1 hour every two weeks, are gonna feel entitled to that shiny god roll just for playing. People only like crafting because it's similar to static rolls back in D2Y1, everyone has the chance to have the same weapon with the same rolls, which just removes fomo. I personally don't care if every weapon is craftable but drops should still mean something. I don't want to go back to a Y1 sandbox where drops truly don't mean anything. I guarantee you that when it's convenient for the community once they get what they want, they'll soon start asking why drops matter if everything is craftable.
We are really at the point with QA where we are feeling those layoffs incredibly hard. I remember forever ago when Destiny used to be lauded for its polish in a sea of problematic releases. Thanks Bungie and Sony, hope your CEOs get those bonuses!
I think the idea for tonics were for them to be a focusing system allowing players to complete whatever activity they wanted to while still looping back into the seasonal activity in some capacity. Focusing in regular onslaught didn't guarantee your weapon during the run so they just copied that while allowing people to do whatever, which people have constantly cried for.
I'm happy to be challenged to overcome extremely difficult content to earn weapons, but I'm too damn old/busy to waste time grinding in Destiny while there are no protections against bad luck in place for random rolls. There needs to be some middle ground between crafting and random rolls, where if you put in the completions you can eventually earn the roll you want when you're not lucky enough to get it to drop naturally.
To repeat myself from Bluesky: It's weird that the company is experiencing so many more bugs than last year, it's almost as if a bunch of important members had to be let go because Pete wouldn't take a paycut... Oh wait
@@MrNoble1997 i have 5k hours on this game hundreds of raids and i can only tell you what like three perks do from memory. i just ask my friends what i should keep. end of story
@izren4415 There is no way. You’d have to have absolutely no puzzle solving or pattern recognition ability. Especially after 5k hours so that is pretty dubious
10:00 in the same way turning off crafting wasn't the answer to making crafting more meaningful, gutting the seasonal content cadence instead of addressing the fact that people just don't want the same old "run the exotic mission this week then tune in next week to do it again, and again, and again" wasn't what people wanted to see in terms of changing seasons Bungie's been trying way too hard to tilt things one way or the other and so of course it's only satisfying those two extreme points of view
Just do this: Weapons 3.0, you can change weapon perks and stuff on any gun, but in order to gain access to the different perks, you need to get them to drop on that gun to unlock. This keeps you playing the activities with low drop rates, and let's you feel like you're building a gun you like over time rather than this current crafting system of "ditch the rng roll you like and use this awful crafted roll until you get enough XP to change it to what you already had with one different perk."
A post i saw on reddit that solves everything is as the user called it, grafting Essentially a gun of the same name can be dismantled to *graft* it to another copy with different perks giving the end result an additional perk from the dismantled version with more grafting giving more option on the weapon. The end goal being you eventually get the right perks on the weapons or all the possible perks if you grind it out. This solves all the issues, people will still value random drops of any kind as it simply means more perks to graft. The player can then either stop if they grafted the target perks or got their desired godroll (hell attach some perks to it for funsies) or grind a step further and graft it until its *perfectly shaped* (has all possible perk options) which feels like an achievement/trophy people will want especially for high difficulty content/raid weapons. People get that rng goodness, a fair safety net so the grind isnt endless for meta combos and vaultspace is saved since realisticly you only need one version of the weapon and simply select your desired perk combo. Not mention qol of never needing to switch or keep track of perk combos for same name weapons again! But this requires bungie to actually be smart and creative and not have a fucked up engine. As stated by the posts top reply. :This is an awesome idea and Bungie will never implement anything even close to it. Have some tonics bro
5:13 I think the idea was for the tonics to act in lieu of attunement to help increase the drops for a specific weapon instead of guaranteeing that specific weapon
That’s objectively a worse system than just focusing engrams though. At least with focusing you were guaranteed the drop you want, instead of jumping through even more RNG hoops
Narratively, this is why there needed to be a D3. A new saga, with a new main bad guy. People don't want to invest in the story if we aren't working toward anything significant
I really don't think many people are complaining about how everything is available at once. People are complaining about the bugs and how weapons aren't craftable. Bungie clearly had made these weapons craftable first and then rolled that back in development as these weapons have 7 perks in each column so getting even a 2/5 roll is a 1/49 chance. There been almost no weapons with double perks and these weapons are sidegrades. This is the main reason why the loot chase feels so bad this season as getting the roll you want. I'm a person that has grinded out every weapon for a 5/5 god roll and I have to say crafting is so much better than what this season ended up being.
My main issue with the state of wrapon crafting is what weapons they are letting us craft. Why are the only craftable weapons weve gotten in Final Shape the ones that arent going to be sunset when Apollo releases? Why did they choose to not make the weapons whos loot sources are going away the craftable ones. Put the finite grind on the weapons that are temporary, not on the ones we will be dismantling drops for 5 years from now.
There is so much Bungie could do with the content that is already in the game. Raids could be broken into like 6 short segments with new enemy encounters and it would be like a whole new set of strikes. Explore mode on one planet at a time could be refreshed with different enemy locations and public events, perhaps even a new ‘legend public event’ to unlock after heroic that turns it into a mini-onslaught of 5 waves. The stupid battlegrounds infecting the vanguard ops could be easily tweaked to make them less annoying, like on mars that whole laser-dodging part could be skipped with a single mancannon that shoots you to the top door and then get rid of the shoot-the-door-locks mechanic entirely. Strikes could be refreshed with NEW enemy encounters, not just reskins of the same encounters (still can’t believe they went to the effort of ‘refreshing’ that Nessus strike but only swapped out enemies. No new encounters, no new paths to take. So lazy.). If Bungie gave a crap, they could slap together a bunch of fun new activities with minimal new assets needed.
They should consider unlocking crafted weapon perks by obtaining a copy of that weapon with that perk instead of simply leveling it up. That way there’s still a loot chase, but crafting still makes up for when you can’t get the two perks you want together.
To take your thought further, my thought on crafting is to keep the deepsight system, but have it on a perk basis instead of a weapon basis. Have a "red border" perk be something that is rare to drop naturally, but make deepsight harmonizers be just as plentiful as ascendant alloys. This way, ALL drops of a weapon are valuable. The crafting chase is long enough that it still takes significant investment to achieve, but you are almost always making progress with every weapon that drops. Because the crafting chase is long enough, it makes more sense to stop if you get your desired roll through a random loot drop, but completionists can still go for the full suite of a weapon. Having the deepsight harmonizers be more plentiful as well will also give some player choice to the whole thing. You really want bait and switch on that GL? first, find 5 copies of the weapon that have bait and switch, then use your harmonizers on them. Don't have harmonizers? I guess you need to go farm some harder content to get them. The correct balance for crafting is to make it arduous enough for rng drops to still be valuable, but not so arduous that it feels like it will take a lifetime to achieve. As for enhanced perks, just keep that how it is for enhanceable weapons.
Idea for weapon crafting that works of the idea that "you can craft the basics, but you are not a master craftsman" (not sure if been mentioned anywhere before): All weapons can be crafted at a basic level (keep or edit the pattern method, not my man focus) However, you can ONLY enhance random rolls, no fully craftable enhanced perks. Similar to how adepts work, you *can* craft the normal version of that weapon, but if you want adept enhanced you have to get a RNG God roll. For those that only want to collect the patterns there a large amount of grinding they can do, FOr those that are happy with a standard *god roll* they can just craft normal AA + BnS, And for those that care about getting that extra couple of % point of damage or what not, they can craft a basic version to use in the meantime while they farm It allows testing of a normal roll before/feel of the weapon before deciding if you want to commit to farming for an RNG version to make adept, gives everyone a *very good* copy of the weapon however they want it, but it will *never* be the *best* it can be as its non enchantable.
The correct solution for crafting is to put crafting behind a separate gameplay experience (maybe reworked gambit) but that requires resources and effort bungie probably doesn't have
We were very happy with the weapon grind during onslaught because that was fun. We also know that crafting makes getting guns less fun. The problem is if you make us grind for weapons and *the grind is not fun* we are gonna complain! It’s not a problem with wanting crafted weapons, it’s not even really that the weapons are mid (it’s a little that). It’s that we want the grind to get them to be fun *because we like playing Destiny*. This entire games’ loot is based on the premise of power creep. It’s not a bad thing, it’s exactly how this game has made getting loot fun for so long. Yes older weapons become less useful, but we get over that really fast when the new weapons are cool and powerful. I don’t know how Bungie can see the success of Onslaught and not fxcking learn from that. We want fresh new activities, and cool powerful new guns. Instead we’re getting the same crap we’ve gotten for the last 8 years with a thin coat of paint slapped on top. The Dawning proves it. They don’t care anymore, and we shouldn’t either.
At this point: let me craft every weapon. They did away with sunsetting, and 90% of my Vault is sunset weapons I've held onto. Being able to craft weapons that I've loved through the years would be awesome
The biggest issue I have with the quality and things being broken is it takes so much time to get anything fixed (if it even gets fixed the first time), but the minute something goes wrong with Eververse (such as a discount or something free), it’s immediately patched. I understand that the store is important, but the contrast between the two is damning. Also, I think we should keep crafting as is, with the exception of removing the ability to enhance the perks. You can get that “god roll”, but it’ll be slightly worse than a dropped roll.
I think the problem with the episodic weapons is their quality, not their source. Onslaught weapons with Into the Light was so well received because of the quality of the weapons (and shinies), it made chasing look exciting. When the weapons suck, at least crafting gives you something to grind towards. When the weapons suck and they’re based on RNG, they aren’t worth the effort in seeking out when there are better weapons already.
Make the seasonal weapons that are time gated craftable through red borders. Put 2 to 3 guns in each ritual activity and make them random rolls. After you get your seasonal guns, you still have to grind for other guns that stay for the year/forever. Actually really good world drops
I realistically only need crafting on seasonal weapons that are moderately decent and enhanced perks are just extra but if you're gonna put out a new guns with random rolls they better be good to grind for. Because even though raids exist you could just wait a season or week for a weapon with similar rolls in the core activities.
I've been saying Destiny 2 needs an ' operation health' like RS6 Siege, a time where bungie can focus on stability and bug fixes on a wide scale. They could even sprinkle some revamped, old or new non-seasonal content like pantheon like ITL era to try to hold people over
At this point, I feel like the destiny community dealing with Bungie is like the Simpsons bit where Lisa needs rescuing from an active volcano when she was supposed to be at a women's conference; Homer: "I'll go save Lisa, your place is here with the women Marge" Crowd boos Homer: "fine, you go save Lisa, I'll stay with the women" Crowd boos Homer: "What do women want?!" No one knows what they want any more, probably including Bungie
I officially quit Destiny a bit ago after 5 years of being in this community. I had a lot of good memories, made a lot of good friends, and I don't regret my time playing the game. However, I can't bring myself to play anymore with the state of the game and even if things do get better I don't see myself returning. Still gonna stick around to support our boy, and hope the best for those who do still play the game.
I wanted the pulse, got the sidearm. Wanted the shottie, got the sidearm. Wanted Chroma, got the sidearm?? Tonics are broken and it should be fixed ASAP!
Two issues with Episodes: 1. The ideas are strong but the execution are weak. 2. These are status-quo changing events, but they'll be vaulted away. So if Apollo and Behemoth are good and bring back people there will be a ton of 'wait why is (Maya actually Lakshmi/we're besties with Eramis?/I didn't realize the Dreadnaught was poly)'
Nah don’t make all weapons craftable…there’s nothing worse than getting a god roll and realizing it’s a craftable weapon so you can’t enhance it. They would need to change how that works.
Craftable weapons should be decent but shouldn't be the best things out there. They should be reliable in nearly all situations, but if you want to melt a boss, it should be with non-craftable weapons from that activity. Gives incentive to re-run the activity to get better rolls to be able to beat the activity faster
It’s so buggy it’s crazy and it just happens to be all the stuff I would care about, a perfect boss to use tether on,disabled, cool fotl weapons,dropping old ones, cool new hunter exotic,not working,the main way I can focus season weapons,not workint
People want weapon crafting back for seasonal/episodic weapons because those weapons are generally not the most exciting (there are exceptions) and come from the most derivative content in the game. So you a have a situation where mid loot comes from mid gameplay situations and that is supposed to be a constant means of engagement for the game. The shiny brave arsenal then ruined regular ass weapon drops even more because those were drops that actually elicited excitement due to their rarity and being some of the best weapons the game had ever seen. People want the weapons because the seasons and episodes have become a series of checklists more than an interesting way to interact with the game.
Bungie dropping all of the act missions at once just showed how much they stretch their „Content“. If it dropped week to week, we wouldve needed to run onslaught or Tomb each week.
Dont forget they desperately need to make a pass at events. Its taking all of my willpower to grind out cookies for the umteenth time just like grinding haunted sectors in halloween. at least improve the events that are around for just a few weeks so they seem original or new instead of copying and pasting last years missions. new haunted sectors from the throne world, pale heart, ect. something other than cookies ffs change stuff up please Bungie I have faith in you to make an amazing game year after year!
I have no issue with crafting being removed....the issue is that the tonic system is so bugged and under developed that its useless. We should get guaranteed drops of weapons. We should have more tonics that are tuned to specific weapons where one tonic makes double drops in either 3rd or 4th column. They just half assed it
I think the issue with weapon crafting is that bungie went to one extreme for a while, and then decided to go to the complete opposite extreme. I think that raid and dungeon weapons shouldn’t be craftable. Typically, most rolls for raid and dungeon gear is good enough to enjoy the game with, with a few rolls being better and then having a god roll. Removing them from crafting creates that joy of doing the dungeon or raid, getting the weapon you want, and feeling good about what you got, or you want better and now have an incentive to do the raid again. Whereas the loot from more basic game modes, like the seasonal event, are not very good, and often have barely a few rolls that are decent at best with nothing particularly reliable. Allowing crafting for these weapons allows players to get that weapon roll that they need, so that they can do that end game content with an actual reliable weapon, or weapon that feels good, and they don’t have to waste their time farming a shit weapon for an okay roll to get a better weapon. In other words, bungie needs to pull their head out of their ass, and find middle ground. If you continue to use extreme solutions, you are going to piss everyone off. Somehow, after doing this for 10 years they still haven’t figured this out yet.
The whole thing with frontiers that I think is most interesting is Bungie is changing a lot of the core features of the game and they're also trying to change the way that they develop a story and allow for player interaction In a lot of ways frontiers is destiny 3 and it's exactly what everyone is being asked for we'll see how that turns out but a lot of ways I think frontiers is destiny 3
Episode 1 was trash. Every act i felt like I could’ve written better. The Vex are my personal favorite race and I was very disappointed in how it was handled
@@kojeb because bungie had a Story for them, that got scrapped Vex came from the Black garden and the Black garden was inside the traveler, it was an actual planned thing during staten cut and the big reveal at the end of the d1 vanilla Story And they kept it vague even during d2, nessus for example was supposed to be a Black garden patrol zone for d2, but got reworked when d2 got rebooted, or when the vex called ghost to come home in one d2 mission, or why the vex Simulated the traveler and the vex being on mercury during the golden age... but it probably got dropped with final shape and the pale heart Just like the pyramid race/darkness story the vex fell victim to bungie scrapping the actual story, and always considering those two as the problem for future bungie.
The week of content vs all at once for seasons has never mattered to me. I was never coming back each week for a trickle of story. All at once is better in my opinion but ultimately I don't think it matters because it still is mostly feeling like seasonal filler. I don't really wanna go drive all the way to nessus hit a button and defeat 15 scorn that fall over when I look at them. I would play seasonal content more if the story was more fulfilling and not full of holes (looking at you echoes). Or if the content was fun and repayable with actual incentives. Revenant has been rough. Here's hoping heresy is better but with the state of bugstiny I have little hope or expectations.
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Reading this, I’m not sure Bungie understood what was the biggest problem with episodes. Or maybe it’s my understanding of that problem is wrong… There are a ton of problems with the delivery of the episodes so far, but even if there were no issues at all, they still would have failed my expectations. My expectations for episodes were that they would be a kind of smaller self-contained story campaigns. I thought they would be short stories with a strong narrative. The stakes would be high but in the end we would resolve the situation. Instead we got new unresolved plots, with stakes that are theoretically high, according to the lore, but feel very low during the gameplay.
Weapon crafting is a good system as a backup plan to not getting weapons you want/ need. That is what the system was designed for, than they added enchanced perks and screwed the balance of it all. So when they removed the backup plan (crafting) obviously we hated it. As far as the story goes, why does the episodes still feel like seasons? Im sick and tired of the same old seasonal stories, they straight up said that episodes would break away from seasons.... than they showed up and what? They feel the same, ugh.
I don't mind not being able to craft everything, I also think everything in the beginning could have worked but this episode didn't really give us anything. I want to see actual things have an affect and I feel they've dangled "near death characters" in our faces.
i still think that if maya tried to force saint to kill osiris but having him break through after wouldve been way better than him being like "im fake woe is me"
I enjoyed TFS but not much after it. Taking a break for now, might check out Episode 3 and catch up on the stories of 1 and 2. I hope crafting is brought back in Frontiers and used to establish a baseline power level. Decent weapons that you can use to start doing harder content. No enhanced perks or stats, just decent perk combos. Combine this with a weekly-capped bad luck protection system in harder content so that you can get desirable weapons eventually, even if you don’t get lucky. Absolute god rolls and/or Exotic chase weapons should remain obtainable only through luck or quests. If the new tier system is what they end up implementing, I’d like to see T1 being crafted weapons, T2 being random drops, T3 being random drops with multiple perk options, T4 being random drops with multiple enhanced perk options, and T5 being random drops with enhanced perk options and increased stats. Make T2 drops quite plentiful and apply long-term bad luck protection systems for T3/4 weapons.
I cant wait to see how GTA6 effects player numbers when that drops, i know its not soon, but considering its the most anticipated game of all time, the day of release your gonna have like 1 guy in the crucible questioning whether his games working or not lol
4:14 Because collecting things is fun and games are meant to be fun, not a job where I spend 4 hours of my day optimizing vault space and loadouts to go kill ads in insight terminus for the 800th time.
I enjoy crafting a lot. However, I wouldn't mind focusing. I just do mind tonics. Also you ask why would I want a pattern, simply due to FOMO. If I have the pattern, a year later when we can't get the weapon to drop, I will be able to craft it if needed. Also yes, the game being broken sucks. I am trying to get my two friends khvostov, and the constant guitar errors make it so our over throw progress is thrown in the trash. That, feels horrible. But makes sense now that apparently there is only one guy working as QA.
The largest challenge for Bungie’s staff is this: balancing the (rapid) cadence of pre-production & production of future content drops, versus the timeliness of responding to community feedback from recent & current seasons. I do not know if there’s a realistic way to practically handle this, from the developer’s (Bungie) perspective. The community demands frequent content updates. But… the community also demands (or expects?) upcoming content to reflect recent community feedback. The big thing that the community (often) fails to realize or recognize is: once feedback is received, THE EARLIEST one should expect future content that adapts to that feedback is SIX MONTHS (approximately) into the future. But, by that time, the community is already providing NEWER feedback on the content that dropped during the time IN-BETWEEN the original feedback and the (6 months later) content that addresses the (now “old”) feedback. Essentially, Bungie is constantly “chasing” previous feedback, and newer feedback is being generated concurrently with implementation of upcoming content that adapts to (previous, but recent) feedback! This impractical juxtaposition of community feedback versus developer response & implementation inevitably leads to predictable frustration from both consumer and developer. The only “real solution” is to revisit a content rollout cadence that allows a few months of “downtime” between content drops. And I’m sure that would go over so well…
Here's my take on weapon crafting: when the weapons are good (like those in og onslaught), people don't mind the absence of crafting because grinding those weapons feels rewarding. When the weapons are bad/unremarkable (such as in this episode), crafting at least have something to grind for, i.e. the weapon pattern. This episode, we have both unremarkable weapons AND no crafting, so people have literally nothing to to grind for at all
Genuinely. And newer loot needs to be better than stuff we’ve had for years. Like the bar for HC’s seriously can’t still be Rose, Palindrome, and Austringer (all of which were in Witch Queen…)
@@broderickfoster2107I see you said “new loot should be better than what we’ve had for years” and that’s power creep now I’m not saying that’s bad by any means but with the complaints now about people not being able to use their old loot kinda almost contradicts that
this might be the first smart take i've seen on the issue. personally, i would be fine if crafting was removed from the game, as enhancing and focusing weapons is a great middle ground. but the idea of still having somewhat of a grind even for bad weapons via crafting does make sense.
@@broderickfoster2107I am thinking you probably play PvP (?) because at least in pve those aren’t the standard anymore (maybe palindrome?)
@@mrsmi1ey for sure. I think if weapon crafting was going to be this big it should’ve stayed for seasonal/ episodic weapons. Once you brought in raid weaponry it made the Loot chase in those basically useless
The meme of the community being QA for Bungie is coming true now.
It has always been true, QA for destiny has a horrible track record.
@@Danil_JRK had* they fired them all anyways now
either they fired them all or they hired people who dont even play the game
It was never a meme.
I mean to a certain extent, we want that, right? By QA, I assume you mean quality assurance, so we do want the community to be the final QA test. We don't want Bungie to ignore what the community is saying, and for us not to be any kind of QA for Bungie, that would have to be true. So we do want that to a certain extent.
So this game is effectively in its "MCU post Endgame" era where nobody has any real idea what to do now or what they want.
it's over
For all I know I think they hinted at something involving Lubrae, Rhulk’s planet.
But other than that, everyone is just holding out for a new arc to latch onto.
@@HLBUNSI’m just interested in going to new planets and I don’t mind if we sort of just became explorers in the lore
@@HLBUNSrhulks planet was destroyed
I mean that was always obviously going to happen. People like Datto insisted that ‘No bungie wouldn’t put resources away from Destiny! It’s their cash cow! Their only source of income!’ but they made the fatal mistake of assuming Bungie weren’t a hilariously overly confident company who think everything they touch is gold. Though in their defence, why wouldn’t they? Even when Destiny releases slop people will lap it up 😅
This is the most Apathetic I’ve heard Datto
Crazy it's like laying off large chunks of your staff instead of taking responsibility for profit loss at the top down results in a demotivated skeleton crew who must work on a continuously evolving game with nowhere near the manpower leads to a worse player experience.
That's why you'll never be a suit. Too smart, too much accountability. Ineptitude is what's rewarded in upper management
The people who were laid off weren’t essential workers. Concept artists, community managers, diversity initiatives. All fat and bloat not needed for game development.
@@matthewkress6161 lol if your gonna troll at leas the believable. If the music team is bloat then you would make a great bungie manager
@@scrunglydunglywhen one person can make music for a game that’s just as good as major developers then yes it’s bloat
@@iponce2and the suits that take responsibility and can take hits for everyone on the ship are remembered and beloved in cases. You already know I’m about to mention Iwata
My issue with the “week over week” vs “everything all at once” is that Bungie promised these episodes to have more content and cutscenes to give you a stronger story. So when I complete the ENTIRE story for what was originally intended for 3 months in the span of 40 minutes (give or take) that doesn’t deliver what we were promised which makes me not trust Bungie with what they say moving forward. Im not expecting a DLC level story, but they promised more than seasons and its the same format just now you have to wait an extra 5 weeks before the next section of story.
I think it exposes how little story content there truly is in these seasons/episodes. The little story content would have been stretched out week to week and padded with "do X waves of onslaught" or "do X laps of tomb of elders" which is just padding/busy work.
For me, re: everything all at once, I would have loved it if crafting and the power grind was not added as well. After these last few years/months, I was really looking forward to basically logging in week after week to buy the red border and log out. I know, I know, not ideal for anyone but me there, but still.
@@chrissturges8952 The stories always have been this lacking and its incredible how few actually expected it to be this plain to see now
either model is flawled when the activities that we have to do between story beats are exactly the same. this change is pointless when nothing that we do feels substantial or makes us attatched to what is being told to us. I don't expect a different activity for every week of a season, but what they have now (actually, for years) is a horrible way to build a narrative in a videogame. How long have we been playing seasonal content where the story reward is just unlocking a cutscene/dialogue that just explains things to us instead of making us feel like the one that made progress towards an objective?
@@chrissturges8952 You're 100% right. During week 1 of Revenant, I loaded into the City hub, was listening to all the NPC dialogue. And then out of nowhere, Eido is like "Thanks for all the hard work you've been doing rescuing these Eliksni!" when I hadn't even loaded into Onslaught yet, I was literally still in the room getting the infodump from Variks and Mithrax. That, right there, told me "They expected us to go do onslaught for a week but then cut that step out."
And to make matters worse when this episode dropped the dialogue for most the missions was missing and bugged so most people missed it and couldn't go back to listen to it again
10:15 The problem isn't the "season" content dropping all at once. The problem is the whole "season" consisting of a couple missions.
I was going to say the same thing. We got Tonics, we didnt' need that. Put that effort into putting actual missions into the game .
Its the quality. Not the lack of time gating. People wont mind doing it all in one go if its actually quality stuff. 1 hour of boring lost sector complexity story is not it
In this case it is quality and quantity. Sorry to say this to all our Bungie / Destiny defenders. But 1h content for a new seasonal story is just miserable.
Exactly my problem with Revenant. Echoes had imo a long story but a boring one. Revenant has an interesting concept of a story but its just to short. The story content for Act 1 and 2 felt like they were the 1st week of the story (they felt more like an introduction into the acts). Echoes atleast had some.
@oxsila and in that 1 hour of content, half of it is bugged, so you can't even experience the story properly (looking at you fieldwork dialog)
I HIGHLY doubt anything in Frontiers will be like a Metroidvania. These are the same people who kept calling Contest/Challenge of the Elders a rogue-like activity.
There are people who think destiny is an mmo, so the buzzwords will work on them
1000%, its gonna be "you need X buff to access Y place" not actual "abilities"
I stopped trusting Bungie’s marketing speak after they compared witch queen’s campaign to god of war😂
@@ZachPlum I agree. It's all stuff in the game already. Opening certain chests on Europa needs a "key" which is really just killing an enemy nearby. It's lame and completely uninteresting.
@@infinitegamer2124I never heard that one but they compared lightfall to infinity war also
When datto calls out just how broken this game is, it makes it sink in just how gone bungie is
Yeah when the Bungie lawyer is commenting on how tough a spot Destiny is in, you know it's bad.
I like they way The Division 2 handles crafting. You can spend mats from dismantled weapons to try and get the roll you want on a specific weapon as long as you have the blueprint AND you can swap out any one perk/attribute as long as you've collected that perk/attribute off a previous weapon.of the same type. It also helps that that game showers you in loot.
Spot on about the weapon crafting. They backed themselves into a corner. They “created patterns” that the community came to expect, so now ripping it away feels doubly bad
Hello sneaky tizzle
Bungie can either have crafting or be generous with loot. What we have right now is no crafting and extremely stingy loot. It sucks.
another W for globalism
Division 2 has a good system. The game showers you in loot, and what you don't use can be broken down into upgrade materials for upgrading the stats of something else. Max stat rolls can be added to a library and put on other pieces in the same slot, talents can be swapped on most things... it's a very flexible system, and it encourages buildcrafting. If I think "Hey, build X is good, but I want to try Y", I can easily farm for the core pieces of the build in an evening, and then make progress fine tuning my gear's stats, and maxing out the rolls.
Having the “Shiny’s” in Into the Light onslaught actually made me play the game and grind. It was the first time in years when i actually got excited (genuinely) for a random weapon, especially if it was a role i wanted.
Honestly just bring this mechanic back- allow crafting, but the weapon pursuit be for shinies that can only drop from the activities allows for people to feel excited
With weapon crafting, I’d rather it be in the game then it not. Sure, the explosion of joy when you land that rng 5/5 roll is amazing. But being in the pits of despair and quitting an activity because you’re banging your head against a slot machine (vs chill inhibitor before weightgate being discovered) sucks and is disrespecting player time. It’s not my job to figure out how to make weapon grinding fun, but I’d rather a consistent weapon acquisition experience than the inconsistent peaks and valleys of rng
I ended up quitting IB completely for a long time when i was chasing a Time-worn Spire for the whole year leading up to the release of Witchqueen trying to get a roll with Iron Grip (this was before Piece of Mind came along). Not a single drop with it, I would've taken 1/5 roll. Needless to say it really killed my drive to play IB, and only this last one that happened was when i finally got back into it, but i couldn't even fully commit anymore.
THIS. I've spent most of my free time grinding a chill inhibitor for me to get the closest because of banshee selling a 3/5.
My friend went 407 Luna’s Howl’s in onslaught before getting the god roll. I got it within 10. By the time he got it he was mentally dead. Rng that bad just shouldn’t be a thing in a game that demands 40 hours a week with no overtime pay.
I have never experienced this supposed "joy" of a random weapon drop. "Relief" at the most, when the weapon doesn't roll with 2 PVP perks.
honestly same. the most joy i've ever felt was realizing i hit fabled in comp and suddenly getting luna's howl. that lasted like an hour. any good roll i've "grinded" for has been the relief of "oh thank god i can move on to the next thing"
The lack of weapon crafting is even more frustrating because they decided to remove engram focusing within the same season and the tonic system wasn't anywhere near the ease and effectiveness of the attunement system introduced in ITL.
Also, what we we really need is a hybrid system for crafting so there can still be a chase but also allow for a deterministic way to get desired rolls. Crafting needs an updated version that takes into account the random roll chase not exclude it entirely. This way hopefully both camps get what they want out of the weapon chase.
I'd honestly be okay with crafting being treated way more like a long term grind, like if we could only craft combinations we've "found" as drops so there's still a chase for finding the "godroll", but we don't have to fill a vault with 5 other copies of the same weapons just because some of the other perk combos looked neat.
Either that or treat it way more like bad luck protection and increase the amount of needed deepsight progress to like 100 (Arbitrary number but you get the idea.) but then have every drop count towards progress so it's more like something you gradually build up as you chase a specific roll. (Got a specific roll after 5 drops? Great you're done. Still don't have it after dozens of drops? Don't worry you'll get it eventually.)
The only way to restore this playerbase is to reset and release a new game, but they dont have the resources for that
In anime we would call these episodes “filler”. They don’t really build to a bigger thing and are used to give time for the creators to make the next arc in the series
I literally compared saints whole existential crisis a “filler subplot” in a different comment section one time lol. Like literally what’s the difference in him before and after. At least the fanatic and variks stuff is a bit interesting.
Too bad there is no ""We will hire an actual QA team" statement.
When I saw "we're hiring" all I could think of was Admiral Akbar saying, "It's a trap." I'm sure Pete is already getting ready to lay them off. XD
How did Bungie think we'd react to opening unpaid community QA positions?? Like "wow that's so cool I'd love to apply! can we get more layoffs before the end of the year??"
@@kat-rau.wait it’s UNPAID? i saw they were hiring gameplay whatever title it said.
I think they are afraid of stuff getting leaked like in the pass…
@@kat-rau. It's not unpaid. It's advertised at $60k a year.
1999 waiting room
Fr. It’s a shame so many of my favorite D2 creators are (1000% justifiably) too burnt out on these type of games to experience how good WF can be.
@@84m30well i definitely understand them not wanting to jump into it cause Mactics did and was treated terribly by the wf community, definitely set a bad precedent for other d2 creators to try wf even if the game is good.
@@KomodoToast really? What happened I thought he has loving it
@ oh from what I gathered he did enjoy the game, but he got a bunch of hate from the wf community that made him burnout and almost quit the game if his twitter is to be believed. very sad to see honestly
@@KomodoToast wow wth that’s awful
I like how they said they couldnt expand vaults because the servers couldnt handle, then theyve expanded it twice, created weapon crafting to avoid expanding it any more, removed deepsight weapons for future content, and now they're back to having to solve the vault problem.
Bungie's developer philosophy is to kick the can just far enough down the road that its hard to see, then they just keep creeping closer every day to the can they kicked so they can kick it again. They never actually pick the can up and throw it away so we are done with the trash entirely.
They have a lot of tech debt. Dealt with it a bit in beyond light, but it's basically been half a decade since then.
if you have good vault management, then you don't need the maximum space at all
How many multi million $ games have you run?
@@beeman4266 Well yeah, I don't think anyone is surprised by that statement anymore, but that shit isn't going away. The are actively de-prioritizing dealing with said debt. I'm not saying it's a simple matter, far from, but it's hard to give them sympathy when it's a corner they painted themselves into.
@@oxsila Are you 12 years old?
Childish insults at genuine criticism only makes you look like a braindead fanboy.
I think people are mad about having everything for the seasonal quest at once because we realized genuinely how little content there is.
If there are 15 quest steps and 8-10 of them are to speak to a vendor, people realize how little is actually in the game.
Also if episode 3 isn’t Xivu Arath I may lose my mind.
What's so strange about the episodes is that, especially considering the logic supplied in this article, is that I don't feel like I'm cleaning up stories that feel relevant in a Post-Witness world. These three antagonists (one of them being entirely unknown to most of the playing community until the Episode) were given a magical plot device that lets them magically manipulate things in their favor for seemingly very little reason. It's like the Triforce but instead of being given any reasoning to why and how Link, Zelda and Ganon keep getting their parts of it, these Echos were nothing more than the Traveller sneezing and these three figments of magical snot globs just conveniently landed on the lap of three different figures that like making problems on purpose. I would've been _far_ more satisfied if the narrative was "Hey look, we got the Witness. Universe is saved. Lets do a lap around the System and clean up the few freaks hiding in the crevices so we can move on to bigger things". A victory lap, basically, of riding high on killing the big bad and stomping out/resolving/making peace with the last few antagonists that _we know about clearly in the game_ would've made the rather low stakes and frankly dismissive nature of some of these stories feel more reasonable and fitting. The Echoes plot device just feels weak.
For sure. No MacGuffins were required for a clean up the solar system approach to this year of story. Obviously they're doing MacGuffin-y stuff with the Echoes like addressing Mithrax's Nezarec sickness, etc, but man, I was just hoping those plot lines would evolve a bit more naturally, using things that aren't brand new cure-all magic mumbo jumbo.
But I don't know why I expected that.
Leading up to TFS, we had our guardian spot four spots on Savathun's wings that we then somehow realized was a Wish (SIGH), leading to us making deals with ghost dragons, rescuing ghost dragon eggs, and learning about her baby daddy for no real reason.
The more magicky Destiny gets, the less interest it generates in me. "What magical thing will change the game for all of five minutes THIS time, and we'll then NEVER revisit the potential of the power these things provide ever again? Blinders on, people!"
A grounded Destiny in the face of paracausality is, and always has been, the best Destiny, imo.
@@kajus As much as I enjoyed season of the wish's story I do agree with you about how it's a horrific example of bungie's dementia with seasonal stories. We collected like 9-12 ahamkara eggs which we gave to Mara and then we have had no mention of them again. Are we ever going to see them hatch or has bungie just forgotten about them?
Each episode so far has felt like a prologue instead of an epilogue. The Final Shape *was* the conclusion and the post campaign stuff was the epilogue. Each episode is the prologue to the next phase of the game.
I like dropping everything at once, but just walking to one npc then going to talk to the same npc on holophone or whatever straight after felt like shit.
2:38 "What was the vision behind taking the tonic and not getting the weapon?" The vision is...Destiny players want the traditional "looter" feel of "kill enemy, item drops, OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG," forgetting that...that's LITERALLY not how RNG works, and that little scenario I just cited is about .1% of how RNG works, and is NOT worth defending like it's sacred. In order for that to be a viable thing to protect, you need MOUNTAINS of good loot, AND a way to convert loot you don't need/want into loot you DO need/want. And Bungie is trying to make that vision happen, regardless of how they split the playerbase with undercooked systems, which should've been nailed down after half this franchise's lifespan, let alone scrambling to figure out 10 years in.
But yes, as you said...until things are actually WORKING PROPERLY...no real conversations can even take place. I guess there needs to be a Bungie Q&A Roadmap: Prologue: Preview first...
Here's an idea: have crafted weapons. Cannot be enhanced. Shinies are introduced with double perks. If the gun is shiny, it can be enhanced
This imo solves both problems. If you want the perfect roll, you can craft it. If you want a better perfect roll, you have that chase for the perfect enhanced
Doesn't need to be shiny. Should just be crafted doesn't get enhanced, random drops can, gives a reason to grind. But yes, also have shiny versions too
I just want there to be some reasonable form of backup/progress for the loot chase. As it stands right now, you could farm for a week straight and if you don't get the drop you want then you've made the same progress as someone who didn't play at all.
Give us something like weapon focusing xp: Everytime you dismantle a specific weapon, you get a small amount of xp towards that weapon. Once that xp meter is filled, you can select perks and the next drop of that weapon will be guaranteed to have those perks and the xp meter empties to zero. Make the xp cap super high if they're desperate for people to farm/grind, but at least I would feel like I was accomplishing something while I'm endlessly focusing Iron Banner engrams for Tinashe's Mastery
I quit recently without even deciding to. It was a strange feeling when i realized i should uninstall to save storage space simply because when i get the itch to play D2 i QUICKLY remember how broken the game is and how id rather play something that feels like im the customer instead of a frustrated QA intern who has to sacrifice my free time just to participate at a terrible job...
Facts
We need crafting for most weapons, BUT have the chase for weapons that drop like the shinies from in to the light. A balance of both systems would be nice
Nope, crafting should be gone completely. RNG was one of the things that made this game special to begin with.
They should let you have the ability to craft 1 or 2 new guns of your choosing and make the rest rng
The previous balance was already good. We still have to grind dungeon, vanguard, iron banner, crucible, gambit, trial weapons.
@@timothymoran202Dude what the hell are you smoking
Spending 60+ engrams for a archons thunder only to never get rimestealer headstone is not fun or special.
That's how you burnout your player base and make them feel like they're wasting their time.
They need to bring back weapon crafting. The activities are ok for a bit, but they're not good enough to grind endlessly with pure rng. Removing Crafting has removed my drive to grind.
Almost like laying off a majority of their QA was a bad idea. Shocker
The vision for tonics was that they literally hit copy/paste on the attunement system from into the light, since they saw that everyone loved that update, this episode is (or at least started with) as much of a carbon copy of it as they can make. Attunement was never a 100% chance to get the weapon you attuned to (iirc it was around 50%) so they made tonics work the exact same way, just now as an item you had to craft and manage a timer for, figuring that since people enjoyed ItL, they’d love tonics.
This was the most TONEDEAF blog post ever.
Let us craft weapons AND let us enhance non-crafted ones. We can have BOTH.
10:16 Reset day doesn’t mean anything anymore. All it really means is stuff (weekly raid, dungeon, nightfall) changes and Xur goes away for three days. That’s it. My clan mates and I used to look forward to Tuesday evening to go do the new hotness each week. I was never in favour of the ‘gimme everything day one’ plan. Make weekly reset mean something again.
Because what about when those weapons are really good and only some people happened to accidentally keep them in their vaults. Crafting is so much better because you can re-obtain rolls that you didn’t keep due to their state at launch, which were later removed.
The meta is wildly unpredictable in this game so we as players deserve to have a way to keep on top of it.
I actually despise the anti-crafting freaks.
How many crafted weapons are meta in PvP? I'm curious, but I also just wanna poke the bear that roared into the void.
Even though there was some good that came from it. Now Bungie has to figure out how to dial that back. I never wanted crafted weapons, but here we are.
@ no idea. Don’t play PVP.
@ but I do play PVE, and time and time again, players, particularly those who aren’t completely in sync with the META, are forced to pick between choosing certain rolls, or even chasing certain weapons, due to how they are at that given time.
Some obvious facts here:
1. The META changes
2. We only have a finite number of weapons we can keep at any time
3. Weapons often become unobtainable after a certain amount of time in this game
With all of this into account, crafting is the best way around this. It’s either:
1. Keep crafting how it is and even make more weapons craftable
2. Keep the META the EXACT same for the rest of the game’s lifespan, and NEVER remove sources of obtaining them
I think we can both agree the first option is much more feasible, yes?
@@Alex-ug9wx I asked because there was a time I played PvP fairly often. Crafted weapons could fill a slot, for a reasonable roll. And yes, there's no reason to NOT make more. I would think going forward random rolls will become the focus again though.
I always just played with my favorites, typically between a dozen or so weapons. My goal was consistency, not playing into what was good at the time. I'd find a way to win. My point - if there aren't any mentionable meta crafted weapons, I'm sure there are, then it's more about filling a weapon slot if you're a sweat.
@@Ranthop Round robin, to start.
We're literal Gods, the loot is feeling stale (crafting or no crafting) and the game is broken to hell and back with each patch that's added.
I feel bad for the devs because clearly the layoffs have had a severe effect on the health of the game, shifting resources from creating new content to damage control.
This "new" episode model is pretty much the same as the seasonal model they've been running for years. This isn't some new issue that came with the layoffs. You could argue that it's attached to the dumbass executives that remain after all these failures though.
Lmfao "we're literal gods" bro 😂 that has nothing to do with the loot
@@thegodhimself5554it does though, abilities and the powercreep that came with prismatic has made guns way less important. You can do full raids without any player firing a single bullet *much* easier than you could a couple years ago. Even for casuals, abilities just do more.
That’s okay for some people’s power fantasy, and I enjoy using abilities, but it makes my guns feel less impactful.
@@div3345 personally I feel like our abilities is what we should be using more. We’re immortal champions of the light who also have access to darkness we shouldn’t be relying on guns. Maybe it’s just the Titan in me talking but abilities should be the focal point imo. Not guns. To me guns should j be the cherry on top of the build
4:11 my answer to this is that i like playing the game and gunplay enough to get the patterns, but not enough to deal with rng nonsense for mid weapons. I will bother dealing with rng for actual good weapons.
Crafting is an objective improvement over any previous Destiny loot system simply because Destiny does not give enough good loot.
“Any drop matters” in RNG for a microsecond, until the single weapon drop is another piece of shit. They are fundamentally misunderstanding the problem and so are the streamers who play this for a living. 3:09
My guy, crafting made every drop from seasons irrelevant.
Its one of the reasons interest in loot died, this is not an opinion its a fact.
The numbers speak
@@Danil_JRK”the numbers speak” yeah, we’re back to 17 layers of busted RNG and player counts drove off a cliff. My “here’s how much you played” email from act 1 said I played 4 onslaughts.
If I can’t actually hunt the 1 or 2 weapons I want, and I can’t guarantee I would even be able to get a good roll on them, and instead I’m getting 3-5 random pieces of utter garbage every time I complete an activity, why would I care?
Iron Banner literally was not dropping loot and all they did was put it in the known issues. Tonics don’t work properly, they’re only realizing it’s a stupid system when we’re in the back half of the season.
If the weapons had patterns, I’d have at least played to get them. Who knows, maybe when they decide to do another wild meta swing they would be useful.
Now it’s just a mountain of crap that’d take up vault space that they also have no sense of urgency to address. So I’ll catch up on my backlog of other games instead.
I fundamentally do not understand people who say that sitting at a slot machine and pulling the lever is the core appeal of Destiny, it’s just such a hollow way to look at a game. I never played this game more than post Witch Queen, where they actually seemed like they were interested in providing tangible goals to work toward.
@@Danil_JRKWhat numbers? Player counts dropping even lower? That must be why i changed from acquiring every weapon pattern in echoes to literally nothing in revenant.
@@Alcatraz760 so do you agree with what i said or what?
You proved my point
Players base is dropping and interest in the game is dead.
Destiny has aleays been a joke in the eyes of the gaming community.
"Why do you need the patterns for weapons you aren't going to craft because they're not that good"
Because a couple times a year Bungie revises perks and entire weapon types and it can make bad weapons good and good weapons bad, and since there will never be a meta where every weapon is viable. If you're going to take content away that rewards specific gear then you need a means by which to futureproof. There are a limited number of ways to get weapons from vaulted seasons and even less ways to focus perks on weapons from vaulted seasons (RNG on top of RNG). There's a wide variety of options somewhere in between terrible RNG and crafting. Tonics was one of the options, but tonics are a bad system because of how convoluted it is, especially in comparison to the the focusing system they had already made during Into the Light.
If Bungie really wants to make buildcrafting and unique builds a part of this game , having the ability to modify perks of any given weapon at any given time is **required**. Otherwise, we're saying perks don't actually matter and we might as well just go back to the vanilla weapon system, and say weapon rolls aren't actually a big deal - they're just a way of making people feel better about getting nothing for populating activities they'd otherwise prefer not to do.
Additionally, chasing weapon patterns during a season of mediocre weapons is still more engaging than just instantly dismantling all weapons and having nothing to work towards.
My issue with the Maya Sundaresh part is that her Echo of Command was part of the Witness (meaning the Witness had this power and even saw the Witness use said power at times) but we were able to stand up against it. Why does hers have an effect on us if we were able to overcome the Witness's Echo use??
What they need to do is every time you dismantle a weapon, those rolls/perks get added to the craftable one. So that way you can craft the one you want, and eventually over time you can get all the perks to craft the GOD roll you want. Makes the chase worth, you don’t waste your time if you didn’t get the best rolls, as you will have unlocked enough to craft it. They also need to add in extra tier of the weapon like the uber version, similar to brave, but when it drops it has all the perks and you can select what you want on the fly, giving you additional chase if you desire or that OMG moments if it drops. This keeps you from dumping a ton of items in your vault to review later, but just adds to the craftable options, and you can reshape the weapon you have with the newly unlocked perks.
4:10 I like to grind for patterns because they allow me to go back and recraft different perk rolls until I find a combination I like. I dont just always follow the "meta" and enjoy theory crafting for myself. Also, weapon archetypes and perks get re-tuned. Being able to go back and re-craft a perk that got buffed onto a weapon is nice. Crafting weapons also gives me something tangible to grind towards, whereas getting rng drops always feels like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
I understand that crafting takes away a lot of the excitement for weapon grinding, but I think there's ways to have both. Have special "shiny" seasonal weapons drop that have double perks and triple barrel/magazine options. Allow them to have a masterwork be selected one time on them, and make them have an entirely unique look or shader to them. Give the players something unique and cool, but also worth grinding for. Otherwise, we will just want to go back to grinding activities waiting for weapon patterns to drop.
I think the best way to settle the rng vs. Crafting debate is to just do both. Have the weapons be craftable, but also have shiny ornaments that you can only put on random dropped versions. People who want to guarantee that they get their 5/5 can just craft it, and rng people get to flex their super rare shiny god roll
Or just have seasonal weapons craftable and everything else be rng
This is never gonna work because everyone who plays this game, even if it's 1 hour every two weeks, are gonna feel entitled to that shiny god roll just for playing. People only like crafting because it's similar to static rolls back in D2Y1, everyone has the chance to have the same weapon with the same rolls, which just removes fomo.
I personally don't care if every weapon is craftable but drops should still mean something. I don't want to go back to a Y1 sandbox where drops truly don't mean anything. I guarantee you that when it's convenient for the community once they get what they want, they'll soon start asking why drops matter if everything is craftable.
We are really at the point with QA where we are feeling those layoffs incredibly hard. I remember forever ago when Destiny used to be lauded for its polish in a sea of problematic releases. Thanks Bungie and Sony, hope your CEOs get those bonuses!
I think the idea for tonics were for them to be a focusing system allowing players to complete whatever activity they wanted to while still looping back into the seasonal activity in some capacity. Focusing in regular onslaught didn't guarantee your weapon during the run so they just copied that while allowing people to do whatever, which people have constantly cried for.
I'm happy to be challenged to overcome extremely difficult content to earn weapons, but I'm too damn old/busy to waste time grinding in Destiny while there are no protections against bad luck in place for random rolls. There needs to be some middle ground between crafting and random rolls, where if you put in the completions you can eventually earn the roll you want when you're not lucky enough to get it to drop naturally.
To repeat myself from Bluesky: It's weird that the company is experiencing so many more bugs than last year, it's almost as if a bunch of important members had to be let go because Pete wouldn't take a paycut... Oh wait
Bro covers this the next day but GOS weapons are covered 2 months later. Always on time Datto keep it up!
Garden is old af. It did not need to be discussed day 1 or 2
If you can't look at the perk pools and identify good rolls from the new Garden weapons, then you're too new to raid. End of story
@@MrNoble1997 i have 5k hours on this game hundreds of raids and i can only tell you what like three perks do from memory. i just ask my friends what i should keep. end of story
@izren4415 There is no way. You’d have to have absolutely no puzzle solving or pattern recognition ability. Especially after 5k hours so that is pretty dubious
@@izren4415 Do you just load into a raid and stare at a wall or something?
10:00 in the same way turning off crafting wasn't the answer to making crafting more meaningful, gutting the seasonal content cadence instead of addressing the fact that people just don't want the same old "run the exotic mission this week then tune in next week to do it again, and again, and again" wasn't what people wanted to see in terms of changing seasons
Bungie's been trying way too hard to tilt things one way or the other and so of course it's only satisfying those two extreme points of view
heres how i see weapon stuff
limited time=craftable
unlimited= enchantable
I just realllllllllly hope that Episode 3's storyline is not just doing the exotic mission week after week after week with minimal changes
I wanted it craftable cos is seasonal its gonna be gone and weapon crafting makes it so i can keep it even they are gone , my money's worth i guess
Yes, exactly. I can craft season of the plunder weapons still, while my friend can't. I can craft Doomed Petitioner. Etc.
"people might throw a fit" nice summary of the destiny community
Just do this: Weapons 3.0, you can change weapon perks and stuff on any gun, but in order to gain access to the different perks, you need to get them to drop on that gun to unlock. This keeps you playing the activities with low drop rates, and let's you feel like you're building a gun you like over time rather than this current crafting system of "ditch the rng roll you like and use this awful crafted roll until you get enough XP to change it to what you already had with one different perk."
Personally I love the new Shotgun, Sniper, and Pulse Rifle. Not like they are amazingly unique, but they do feel great to shoot imho.
A post i saw on reddit that solves everything is as the user called it, grafting
Essentially a gun of the same name can be dismantled to *graft* it to another copy with different perks giving the end result an additional perk from the dismantled version with more grafting giving more option on the weapon. The end goal being you eventually get the right perks on the weapons or all the possible perks if you grind it out.
This solves all the issues, people will still value random drops of any kind as it simply means more perks to graft.
The player can then either stop if they grafted the target perks or got their desired godroll (hell attach some perks to it for funsies) or grind a step further and graft it until its *perfectly shaped* (has all possible perk options) which feels like an achievement/trophy people will want especially for high difficulty content/raid weapons.
People get that rng goodness, a fair safety net so the grind isnt endless for meta combos and vaultspace is saved since realisticly you only need one version of the weapon and simply select your desired perk combo. Not mention qol of never needing to switch or keep track of perk combos for same name weapons again!
But this requires bungie to actually be smart and creative and not have a fucked up engine. As stated by the posts top reply.
:This is an awesome idea and Bungie will never implement anything even close to it. Have some tonics bro
I saw that too and I think its exactly what we need, a hybrid system.
That sounds like it would be even easier to obtain god rolls, and thus people actually playing the content, than crafting.
hardly perfect. would be too quick/easy and reduce player engagement.
5:13 I think the idea was for the tonics to act in lieu of attunement to help increase the drops for a specific weapon instead of guaranteeing that specific weapon
That’s objectively a worse system than just focusing engrams though. At least with focusing you were guaranteed the drop you want, instead of jumping through even more RNG hoops
Narratively, this is why there needed to be a D3. A new saga, with a new main bad guy. People don't want to invest in the story if we aren't working toward anything significant
I really don't think many people are complaining about how everything is available at once. People are complaining about the bugs and how weapons aren't craftable. Bungie clearly had made these weapons craftable first and then rolled that back in development as these weapons have 7 perks in each column so getting even a 2/5 roll is a 1/49 chance. There been almost no weapons with double perks and these weapons are sidegrades. This is the main reason why the loot chase feels so bad this season as getting the roll you want. I'm a person that has grinded out every weapon for a 5/5 god roll and I have to say crafting is so much better than what this season ended up being.
My main issue with the state of wrapon crafting is what weapons they are letting us craft. Why are the only craftable weapons weve gotten in Final Shape the ones that arent going to be sunset when Apollo releases? Why did they choose to not make the weapons whos loot sources are going away the craftable ones. Put the finite grind on the weapons that are temporary, not on the ones we will be dismantling drops for 5 years from now.
There is so much Bungie could do with the content that is already in the game.
Raids could be broken into like 6 short segments with new enemy encounters and it would be like a whole new set of strikes. Explore mode on one planet at a time could be refreshed with different enemy locations and public events, perhaps even a new ‘legend public event’ to unlock after heroic that turns it into a mini-onslaught of 5 waves. The stupid battlegrounds infecting the vanguard ops could be easily tweaked to make them less annoying, like on mars that whole laser-dodging part could be skipped with a single mancannon that shoots you to the top door and then get rid of the shoot-the-door-locks mechanic entirely. Strikes could be refreshed with NEW enemy encounters, not just reskins of the same encounters (still can’t believe they went to the effort of ‘refreshing’ that Nessus strike but only swapped out enemies. No new encounters, no new paths to take. So lazy.).
If Bungie gave a crap, they could slap together a bunch of fun new activities with minimal new assets needed.
They should consider unlocking crafted weapon perks by obtaining a copy of that weapon with that perk instead of simply leveling it up. That way there’s still a loot chase, but crafting still makes up for when you can’t get the two perks you want together.
To take your thought further, my thought on crafting is to keep the deepsight system, but have it on a perk basis instead of a weapon basis. Have a "red border" perk be something that is rare to drop naturally, but make deepsight harmonizers be just as plentiful as ascendant alloys. This way, ALL drops of a weapon are valuable. The crafting chase is long enough that it still takes significant investment to achieve, but you are almost always making progress with every weapon that drops. Because the crafting chase is long enough, it makes more sense to stop if you get your desired roll through a random loot drop, but completionists can still go for the full suite of a weapon. Having the deepsight harmonizers be more plentiful as well will also give some player choice to the whole thing. You really want bait and switch on that GL? first, find 5 copies of the weapon that have bait and switch, then use your harmonizers on them. Don't have harmonizers? I guess you need to go farm some harder content to get them. The correct balance for crafting is to make it arduous enough for rng drops to still be valuable, but not so arduous that it feels like it will take a lifetime to achieve. As for enhanced perks, just keep that how it is for enhanceable weapons.
Idea for weapon crafting that works of the idea that "you can craft the basics, but you are not a master craftsman" (not sure if been mentioned anywhere before): All weapons can be crafted at a basic level (keep or edit the pattern method, not my man focus) However, you can ONLY enhance random rolls, no fully craftable enhanced perks.
Similar to how adepts work, you *can* craft the normal version of that weapon, but if you want adept enhanced you have to get a RNG God roll.
For those that only want to collect the patterns there a large amount of grinding they can do,
FOr those that are happy with a standard *god roll* they can just craft normal AA + BnS,
And for those that care about getting that extra couple of % point of damage or what not, they can craft a basic version to use in the meantime while they farm
It allows testing of a normal roll before/feel of the weapon before deciding if you want to commit to farming for an RNG version to make adept, gives everyone a *very good* copy of the weapon however they want it, but it will *never* be the *best* it can be as its non enchantable.
The correct solution for crafting is to put crafting behind a separate gameplay experience (maybe reworked gambit) but that requires resources and effort bungie probably doesn't have
We were very happy with the weapon grind during onslaught because that was fun. We also know that crafting makes getting guns less fun. The problem is if you make us grind for weapons and *the grind is not fun* we are gonna complain! It’s not a problem with wanting crafted weapons, it’s not even really that the weapons are mid (it’s a little that). It’s that we want the grind to get them to be fun *because we like playing Destiny*.
This entire games’ loot is based on the premise of power creep. It’s not a bad thing, it’s exactly how this game has made getting loot fun for so long. Yes older weapons become less useful, but we get over that really fast when the new weapons are cool and powerful. I don’t know how Bungie can see the success of Onslaught and not fxcking learn from that.
We want fresh new activities, and cool powerful new guns. Instead we’re getting the same crap we’ve gotten for the last 8 years with a thin coat of paint slapped on top.
The Dawning proves it. They don’t care anymore, and we shouldn’t either.
At this point: let me craft every weapon. They did away with sunsetting, and 90% of my Vault is sunset weapons I've held onto. Being able to craft weapons that I've loved through the years would be awesome
The biggest issue I have with the quality and things being broken is it takes so much time to get anything fixed (if it even gets fixed the first time), but the minute something goes wrong with Eververse (such as a discount or something free), it’s immediately patched.
I understand that the store is important, but the contrast between the two is damning.
Also, I think we should keep crafting as is, with the exception of removing the ability to enhance the perks. You can get that “god roll”, but it’ll be slightly worse than a dropped roll.
I think the problem with the episodic weapons is their quality, not their source. Onslaught weapons with Into the Light was so well received because of the quality of the weapons (and shinies), it made chasing look exciting. When the weapons suck, at least crafting gives you something to grind towards. When the weapons suck and they’re based on RNG, they aren’t worth the effort in seeking out when there are better weapons already.
Make the seasonal weapons that are time gated craftable through red borders. Put 2 to 3 guns in each ritual activity and make them random rolls. After you get your seasonal guns, you still have to grind for other guns that stay for the year/forever. Actually really good world drops
I like the everything at once in fact id like all 3 acts at once maybe week 1-3 so i can go ahead and have a more cohesive story experience
I realistically only need crafting on seasonal weapons that are moderately decent and enhanced perks are just extra but if you're gonna put out a new guns with random rolls they better be good to grind for. Because even though raids exist you could just wait a season or week for a weapon with similar rolls in the core activities.
I've been saying Destiny 2 needs an ' operation health' like RS6 Siege, a time where bungie can focus on stability and bug fixes on a wide scale. They could even sprinkle some revamped, old or new non-seasonal content like pantheon like ITL era to try to hold people over
At this point, I feel like the destiny community dealing with Bungie is like the Simpsons bit where Lisa needs rescuing from an active volcano when she was supposed to be at a women's conference;
Homer: "I'll go save Lisa, your place is here with the women Marge"
Crowd boos
Homer: "fine, you go save Lisa, I'll stay with the women"
Crowd boos
Homer: "What do women want?!"
No one knows what they want any more, probably including Bungie
I officially quit Destiny a bit ago after 5 years of being in this community. I had a lot of good memories, made a lot of good friends, and I don't regret my time playing the game. However, I can't bring myself to play anymore with the state of the game and even if things do get better I don't see myself returning. Still gonna stick around to support our boy, and hope the best for those who do still play the game.
“Drink tonic, don’t get weapon”..made me laugh but very true..just sums up the game at the moment.
I wanted the pulse, got the sidearm.
Wanted the shottie, got the sidearm.
Wanted Chroma, got the sidearm??
Tonics are broken and it should be fixed ASAP!
Two issues with Episodes:
1. The ideas are strong but the execution are weak.
2. These are status-quo changing events, but they'll be vaulted away. So if Apollo and Behemoth are good and bring back people there will be a ton of 'wait why is (Maya actually Lakshmi/we're besties with Eramis?/I didn't realize the Dreadnaught was poly)'
Nah don’t make all weapons craftable…there’s nothing worse than getting a god roll and realizing it’s a craftable weapon so you can’t enhance it. They would need to change how that works.
Craftable weapons should be decent but shouldn't be the best things out there. They should be reliable in nearly all situations, but if you want to melt a boss, it should be with non-craftable weapons from that activity. Gives incentive to re-run the activity to get better rolls to be able to beat the activity faster
It’s so buggy it’s crazy and it just happens to be all the stuff I would care about, a perfect boss to use tether on,disabled, cool fotl weapons,dropping old ones, cool new hunter exotic,not working,the main way I can focus season weapons,not workint
People want weapon crafting back for seasonal/episodic weapons because those weapons are generally not the most exciting (there are exceptions) and come from the most derivative content in the game. So you a have a situation where mid loot comes from mid gameplay situations and that is supposed to be a constant means of engagement for the game. The shiny brave arsenal then ruined regular ass weapon drops even more because those were drops that actually elicited excitement due to their rarity and being some of the best weapons the game had ever seen. People want the weapons because the seasons and episodes have become a series of checklists more than an interesting way to interact with the game.
Bungie dropping all of the act missions at once just showed how much they stretch their „Content“. If it dropped week to week, we wouldve needed to run onslaught or Tomb each week.
the brave weapons nailed the perfect balance for loot in my opinion, they should just keep doing that
Dont forget they desperately need to make a pass at events. Its taking all of my willpower to grind out cookies for the umteenth time just like grinding haunted sectors in halloween. at least improve the events that are around for just a few weeks so they seem original or new instead of copying and pasting last years missions. new haunted sectors from the throne world, pale heart, ect. something other than cookies ffs change stuff up please Bungie I have faith in you to make an amazing game year after year!
I have no issue with crafting being removed....the issue is that the tonic system is so bugged and under developed that its useless. We should get guaranteed drops of weapons. We should have more tonics that are tuned to specific weapons where one tonic makes double drops in either 3rd or 4th column. They just half assed it
I think the issue with weapon crafting is that bungie went to one extreme for a while, and then decided to go to the complete opposite extreme. I think that raid and dungeon weapons shouldn’t be craftable. Typically, most rolls for raid and dungeon gear is good enough to enjoy the game with, with a few rolls being better and then having a god roll. Removing them from crafting creates that joy of doing the dungeon or raid, getting the weapon you want, and feeling good about what you got, or you want better and now have an incentive to do the raid again. Whereas the loot from more basic game modes, like the seasonal event, are not very good, and often have barely a few rolls that are decent at best with nothing particularly reliable. Allowing crafting for these weapons allows players to get that weapon roll that they need, so that they can do that end game content with an actual reliable weapon, or weapon that feels good, and they don’t have to waste their time farming a shit weapon for an okay roll to get a better weapon. In other words, bungie needs to pull their head out of their ass, and find middle ground. If you continue to use extreme solutions, you are going to piss everyone off. Somehow, after doing this for 10 years they still haven’t figured this out yet.
xD BUT DATTO! THE CASH SHOP ALWAYS WORKS!(in that it will ALWAYS can take your money)
The whole thing with frontiers that I think is most interesting is Bungie is changing a lot of the core features of the game and they're also trying to change the way that they develop a story and allow for player interaction In a lot of ways frontiers is destiny 3 and it's exactly what everyone is being asked for we'll see how that turns out but a lot of ways I think frontiers is destiny 3
Episode 1 was trash. Every act i felt like I could’ve written better. The Vex are my personal favorite race and I was very disappointed in how it was handled
tbf, the vex have always been trashed on by the writing team
@@kojeb because bungie had a Story for them, that got scrapped
Vex came from the Black garden and the Black garden was inside the traveler, it was an actual planned thing during staten cut and the big reveal at the end of the d1 vanilla Story
And they kept it vague even during d2, nessus for example was supposed to be a Black garden patrol zone for d2, but got reworked when d2 got rebooted, or when the vex called ghost to come home in one d2 mission, or why the vex Simulated the traveler and the vex being on mercury during the golden age... but it probably got dropped with final shape and the pale heart
Just like the pyramid race/darkness story the vex fell victim to bungie scrapping the actual story, and always considering those two as the problem for future bungie.
@ I know 😔 I’m so sad about it. I was just so hopeful that after the Witness was defeated the Vex would finally make their big play🥲
The week of content vs all at once for seasons has never mattered to me. I was never coming back each week for a trickle of story. All at once is better in my opinion but ultimately I don't think it matters because it still is mostly feeling like seasonal filler. I don't really wanna go drive all the way to nessus hit a button and defeat 15 scorn that fall over when I look at them. I would play seasonal content more if the story was more fulfilling and not full of holes (looking at you echoes). Or if the content was fun and repayable with actual incentives. Revenant has been rough. Here's hoping heresy is better but with the state of bugstiny I have little hope or expectations.
Reading this, I’m not sure Bungie understood what was the biggest problem with episodes. Or maybe it’s my understanding of that problem is wrong…
There are a ton of problems with the delivery of the episodes so far, but even if there were no issues at all, they still would have failed my expectations.
My expectations for episodes were that they would be a kind of smaller self-contained story campaigns. I thought they would be short stories with a strong narrative. The stakes would be high but in the end we would resolve the situation. Instead we got new unresolved plots, with stakes that are theoretically high, according to the lore, but feel very low during the gameplay.
Weapon crafting is a good system as a backup plan to not getting weapons you want/ need. That is what the system was designed for, than they added enchanced perks and screwed the balance of it all. So when they removed the backup plan (crafting) obviously we hated it.
As far as the story goes, why does the episodes still feel like seasons? Im sick and tired of the same old seasonal stories, they straight up said that episodes would break away from seasons.... than they showed up and what? They feel the same, ugh.
I don't mind not being able to craft everything, I also think everything in the beginning could have worked but this episode didn't really give us anything. I want to see actual things have an affect and I feel they've dangled "near death characters" in our faces.
i still think that if maya tried to force saint to kill osiris but having him break through after wouldve been way better than him being like "im fake woe is me"
I enjoyed TFS but not much after it. Taking a break for now, might check out Episode 3 and catch up on the stories of 1 and 2.
I hope crafting is brought back in Frontiers and used to establish a baseline power level. Decent weapons that you can use to start doing harder content. No enhanced perks or stats, just decent perk combos. Combine this with a weekly-capped bad luck protection system in harder content so that you can get desirable weapons eventually, even if you don’t get lucky. Absolute god rolls and/or Exotic chase weapons should remain obtainable only through luck or quests.
If the new tier system is what they end up implementing, I’d like to see T1 being crafted weapons, T2 being random drops, T3 being random drops with multiple perk options, T4 being random drops with multiple enhanced perk options, and T5 being random drops with enhanced perk options and increased stats. Make T2 drops quite plentiful and apply long-term bad luck protection systems for T3/4 weapons.
I cant wait to see how GTA6 effects player numbers when that drops, i know its not soon, but considering its the most anticipated game of all time, the day of release your gonna have like 1 guy in the crucible questioning whether his games working or not lol
4:14 Because collecting things is fun and games are meant to be fun, not a job where I spend 4 hours of my day optimizing vault space and loadouts to go kill ads in insight terminus for the 800th time.
I enjoy crafting a lot. However, I wouldn't mind focusing. I just do mind tonics. Also you ask why would I want a pattern, simply due to FOMO. If I have the pattern, a year later when we can't get the weapon to drop, I will be able to craft it if needed. Also yes, the game being broken sucks. I am trying to get my two friends khvostov, and the constant guitar errors make it so our over throw progress is thrown in the trash. That, feels horrible. But makes sense now that apparently there is only one guy working as QA.
The largest challenge for Bungie’s staff is this: balancing the (rapid) cadence of pre-production & production of future content drops, versus the timeliness of responding to community feedback from recent & current seasons.
I do not know if there’s a realistic way to practically handle this, from the developer’s (Bungie) perspective. The community demands frequent content updates. But… the community also demands (or expects?) upcoming content to reflect recent community feedback.
The big thing that the community (often) fails to realize or recognize is: once feedback is received, THE EARLIEST one should expect future content that adapts to that feedback is SIX MONTHS (approximately) into the future. But, by that time, the community is already providing NEWER feedback on the content that dropped during the time IN-BETWEEN the original feedback and the (6 months later) content that addresses the (now “old”) feedback.
Essentially, Bungie is constantly “chasing” previous feedback, and newer feedback is being generated concurrently with implementation of upcoming content that adapts to (previous, but recent) feedback! This impractical juxtaposition of community feedback versus developer response & implementation inevitably leads to predictable frustration from both consumer and developer.
The only “real solution” is to revisit a content rollout cadence that allows a few months of “downtime” between content drops. And I’m sure that would go over so well…