The worst form of sportmanship that I experienced was from a guy I was facing during the brand new synchro era. He was losing and was down to his last 100 lifepoints, he played a card facedown attack mode, and said "This is my stardust dragon, just so you know, I don't want anyone to see this ghost rare card. I have had people bugging me for a while to get their hands on this, and just so you know, this is my ghost rare stardust dragon." I had to call over the guy running the tournament and he refused to reveal the card in any form. He was willing to be branded as a cheater just to get the win. The best form of sportsmanship I've seen is when a 9 year old at my locals drew all 5 pieces of exodia first turn and the entire card shop burst into applause. The kid left feeling really proud of himself.
I don't mean to be insulting when I say this but was he autistic by chance? sounds really similar to some of my acquaintances who were diagnosed with it.
@@needahobby6830some kid resolved Time Wizard vs an entire field of monsters when I was playing 60-Card Zombiesworn. Next turn I OTK’d him but still… I let him know it was really cool and it was some anime level play!
One of my fondest memories about suspicious sportsmanship was this time at locals back in 2019. I was on Salamangreat. My opponent was on Marincess. They went first and before they made their opening play, they asked me “Hey, buddy if you had Nibiru you’d tell me right?” I just raised my eyebrow and was like “No…I wouldn’t tell you.” He was like “oh great, I can just go off.” And he proceeded to make a full marincess board. At the end of his main phase, I activated Nib. Dude was so salty, explaining “wtf dude you told me you didn’t have it!…” And proceeded to rage quit and leave the tourney…. It still makes me laugh he thought I was displaying poor sportsmanship 😂….
Their skill issue for not making Toad on 5th summon But jokes aside, i hate it when people do stuff like that. Asking "Do you have Nibiru on hand?", or counting every single summon attempt i make, it's such cringe behavior. If you want to count my summon, just do it in your head without saying it out loud. But if they lose track of my summon it's fine to ask "How many times summon you've done?", that is as long as they actually have Nibiru.
@@floooowandereese Fun Fact, Asking how many summons an opponent has done and not having Nib in hand is not a Rule Violation. Let's be real what if I want to know how many times a deck can Special Summon or just Summon in General and I don't know beforehand. Yes I know it's a Sus Angle Shooting Tactic but are we gonna keep making a big deal out of this ruling?
@@flacosantana7178 I see your point and i think for that purpose it's completely fine. What i don't like is when someone intentionally luring their opponent to think "Oh they have Nibiru on hand", prompting them to make suboptimal play.
It's classified as cheating if your opponent asks you beforehand if you have a certain card in your deck. Never do this, it's plain toxic behavior. An opponents deck must always be unkown. Next time call a judge to disqualify any player pressuring you to reveal a card from ypur deck.
As a very casual player, the meta scene of YGO is pretty interesting to me. I'd prefer to get as much value as I can out of my favourite archetypes (Gravekeepers, Toon, Blue Eyes)
A fellow Gravekeeper, you are exactly right.... That's why I love Yugioh Duel Links I get to have fun with all the archetypes even the not so serious ones like I wanna see if I can have fun with a Goblins Deck ya know just experience it all with some fun ppl
I got a win in a tournament by the weirdest way. I was playing a guy and I lost my first match. He was playing a very unusual deck, but his moves were legal and it was very cool to watch him pop off. I complimented his deck by basically telling him that's one of the coolest turns I'd seen and he started going off on me. Because of it it took two judges to calm him down and he was removed from the match and the venue, I was given the win. I heard from someone later that guy was always omega-level salty, abd did not take compliments or insults well at all, he was super arrogant, and even a slight change in his plans always made him explode.
Regarding sportsmanship, at the first local YuGiOh event I went to, I faced off against a Yata-Lock deck in my first round. I brought my burn/heal Fire Princess deck. This person eventually managed to get Yata on the field and asked if I wanted to surrender right then and there. I said no, because by the time he got it out, I had enough of my stall/heal cards out that unless he had something to destroy my spells & traps, there's no way he could do enough damage to me before running out of cards. I won, and yeah, he was not happy at all. The next person I faced had a similar deck to mine and I lost, but he was much more friendly. Later on, the store owner told me that the person I beat was a judge and had only lost twice all year, including me. It kind of made me realize that I was much more of a casual player than a serious competitor. I just brought that deck for fun because it was my favorite one at the time. But, at the time, a ton of the best players were using Yata until it was banned. I sold the Yata I got in a box to get a lot of other cards I wanted for fun. Anyway, I get why people take it seriously, but I don't think I could ever do so.
One thing that gets me is when the community goes after and kind of throws shade at budget or players who play decks they like I actually stopped going to locals over getting spoken down to by people who are play 1,000$ decks and treat people who don't take it that serious like shit
@@crossdaboss8914my entire locals is like that and it’s awful i just wanna play my heroes and have fun im taking a break till april and i’m putting together spright twins for when i come back
When I was a kid, I used to almost always get real upset if I lost at a game, not just Yu-Gi-Oh! This very quickly drove people to steer clear from interacting with me. I used to embarrass myself and those around so much, cause I couldn't pull my head out my own ass, and just enjoy the fact I had someone to play the game with. So nowadays, I do my best to just take things easy and not take the game too seriously. It feels good to win, and sometimes losing does suck, but at the end of the day, it is just a game, with little to no stakes.
Sadly for some people there are stakes. More rewards at the end of a local shop tournament (and bigger events) is a good enough of a reason for people to discard sportsmanship.
Had this happen myself. I was fighting for 1st at my locals, got game 1 easily, and after I won game 2, they tried to gaslight me saying we only played a single game. They laughed and said it out loud to a bunch of their friends who were also playing, saying i was trying to cheat and take the match after a single duel. I was so confused why someone would do this, and since the shop didn't have a way to keep track of how many games we played, it was him and his group of friends he got to back him up vs my word as his opponent. We ended up playing 2 more games and he ended up getting the win cuz he opened better in those games. I was pissed af.
At least it's a reason to use paper score trackers, I suppose - it's hard to argue you've only played one game when there's papers with the life point tally on them to prove otherwise. But yeah, that's just plain shitty behaviour, definitely a "never play this person again" moment.
The game is already unfriendly enough to new players with the complexity and crappy product designs, then on top you have piss poor communities because of all the cliques and bullying that goes on at LGS. 😢
Going into BP without having Evenly is fine and I wouldnt know any argument against it. Even morally its fine, Idk how people could think thats a bad thing
Worst experience: At a locals recently, I played against someone who spent the majority of my turn essentially mocking me for going through the standard Floo combo line. I would Normal Robina, Search Eglen etc. While I'm making my moves, revealing my search targets, and so on, he is repeating me in a condescending tone. I'm pretty chill and I get that Floo isn't everyone favorite deck to play against, but you don't have to mock me for it. Best experience: At a box tournament, playing Floo again (which I typically play in more competitive prizing scenarios) I come up against someone playing Snake-Eye/R-ACE. He beats my ass and it wasn't close. Afterward, we pulled my deck apart, completely restructured and he even gifted me copies of Talents and Prosperity.
I would've taken a second to stare @ the first person and be like 'are you OK? if you don't like playing with others solitaire is an option' or something bc they sound insufferable. Sucks you had to deal with that
I'd say my best experience with my local YGO community came when I had my collection stolen. This was back when "The Lost Millennium" had been out for about a week, I was young and kept my whole collection in a small plastic case just slightly larger than a Nintendo Gamecube system. Someone from the shop stole it from the table behind me while I was at the counter (they were never seen again after this) but I had really been looking forward to joining in the tournament that day, so a bunch of the players actually went through their stuff and just gave me extras to build a deck with. I was given a set of each original vanilla HERO, 2 Skyscraper, 2 Flame Wingman and Thunder Giants, and a whole common-core of Warrior support cards. I ended up winning that day, not just in the tourney, but feeling a real sense of comradery with the other players. They were also surprised and happy for me, considering what went down just a few hours prior.
@@JustCallMeKart I think what they may be referring to is how in Master Duel if you surrender you don't get any rewards or anything. And seeing how surrendering in Master Duel is common, it can probably be frustrating for some players.
Konami really ransoming what little you get for a loss, just because you don't want to sit through a combo people do even when they know for sure they've won. It's so frustrating
@@Boyzby Also I'm positive most of my losses has come from surrendering. Which definitely makes it worse in my eyes. When your staring down an unbeatable board it's much better to just quit which has happened so many times it's essentially most of my loss record
Competition attracts certain types of people and inevitably either breeds cheating or attracts cheaters. I don't think there is a single competitive scene for anything devoid of cheaters, even in shit with absolutely NO stakes whatsoever, no reward other than the self satisfaction of doing it - speed running is a great example of this. Even in professional athletics and sports, people cheat with things like steroids or finding sneaky and sly ways to break certain rules for advantages over the other team - you even have shit like adderall abusing in professional e-sports like CSGO. Sometimes, a part of that competitive mindset is doing anything you can to win. If it sounds like I'm demonizing competitive people, it's actually just the opposite - this isn't necessarily a bad trait, it's just an ideology that can be taken too far when it reaches the point of undermining competition entirely (aka cheating). That drive and desire to do anything you can to win is ultimately what makes a lot of competitive players as much of a beast as they are.
It's the divide between sportsmanship, gamesmanship and cheating. Sportsmanship is the healthy competition where there's respect and fair play between everyone, and enjoying the game for the sake of the game rather than winning. Gamesmanship is all about winning, even if it means bending the rules or playing dirty without explicitly cheating. And of course, cheating is just straight up breaking the rules simply because you can and you enjoy doing so, especially if you don't get caught and you win because of it.
The best sportsmanship I have seen is from kids. Most are just happy to play, and they usually have a good attitude, assuming anime protagonists had some influence. The adults are alright, but so many hold a grudge.
I'm glad you brought this up. I was at locals recently. I was facing my opp, but the issue was the opp's buddy had a bye for that round and was talking with us during our match. I informed both that I was just back into Yu-Gi-Oh and I needed to learn the new cards. Well the buddy kept interrupting and asking about my hand and talking about my hand in general. This led to my opp figuring out one of my trap cards. It really hindered me and nearly ruined my time. I was already struggling to keep up with Runick.
Yeah from the description that sounds like malicious chatting, given it was their friend talking it's a plausibly deniable version of your opponent asking you about your hand, a hidden zone they shouldn't have knowledge of, and it's generally rude to be disruptive like that regardless.
I dont get thrashralking to strangers, and think it should be reserved for when your with friends and people who know it isnt meant to be taken serious. Imagine playing a game and someone tells you you're shit, i dont think it benefits anyone, and just annoys people and/or makes them upset. I dont think it has a place in any sport or hobby let alone one where there is so much more at play than skills like yugioh.
Trash talk from strangers is like playing against an anime villain, only there's no world-ending stakes on the line or anything - at least with your mates, you can have good fun about it and if it's getting a little too personal you can resolve things without causing a scene, but a stranger just makes it so that you'd never want to play against them again.
I came into Yugioh from the Smash community, and a decades old adage in their competitive scene is "No Johns", which means no excuses. Regardless of some of the more fundamental problems with this game (namely the slanted advantage of going first and the cards that can make that stupidly oppressive like IP Masquerena, floodgates or what have you), its my belief that you should still try to approach each game as a learning opportunity. Its a children's card game, just try to have fun.
One of the "Rules of Kaijudo" from the Duel Masters TCG was "I have no enemies, my opponent is my teacher" - it's a great way to promote the idea that you will always have something new to learn for your next game.
Sportsmanship and respect to ones fellow humans shows maturity and intelligence. I was pretty let down watching the last rounds of the 3v3, so much hubris over a card game. Thanks for making this vid, Paul. Maybe someone will learn a thing or two about whats really important when we duel.
I really don't like when my opponent talks about random shit while we're playing. My peanut brain has a hard enough time figuring out what I'm going to do next and sometimes that distraction is enough to make me misplay or forget the game-winning play I had in mind. Other than that I don't really care what my opponent does. If they pop off after they win or act cocky while we play that's fine with me. Makes it all the better when you get them the next time, to me that's the fun of competition.
And I think it would be great if we can make this a community where we can say "Hey, I would love to chat about this after the duel, but during the duel I would appreciate if I could focus on the game" and all parties would be understanding of this. I hope for this anyway
I didnt go to many tournaments, just a couple drafts, but the moment I became disinterested in the whole thing was in a match where my opponent won pretty fast (about 5 minutes), the next game I was winning then I noticed he started talking about random subjects and playing slower, I didnt follow through his topics as I just wanted to play, by the time I won, the time was up (second duel took 30 minutes or more) then due to tournaments rules I was out and he went to next round, I wasnt angry at that moment but later that day I realized what he did and I felt awful, the moment my opponent felt like he could lose he started being scummy, we never got to the third game in the match, so disappointing I never returned to any similar events
Looking back, one of the main reasons I quit competitive play was because of a LOT of negative experiences with players' behaviors. One of the worst was actually a game I won 2-0. Dude was using Gladiator Beasts and I was running a rogue deck that mostly bounced cards and deflcted attacks. I thwarted almost all of his moves, but he would not quit with the smart comments from me making a brief flub with my Duel calculator ("this is why I write things down!") to whining because I kept bouncing things ("this is why I prefer Magic the Gathering"). That might have been the only time I ever got worked up during a game I was WINNING. Since then, I've always made sure to clearly declare every move I make, give my opponent a chance to respond to any moves I make, and refrain from being chatty unless it's someone I am friends with, in which case we get kind of goofy while we play. On another positive note, I can safely say I did not have a single negative experience playing any of my rounds at the last-ever regional I attended back in the final days of Master Rule 2 (April 2014). Every player was very respectful and sportsman like.
It's never my opponents fault i lost. it's mine. Afterwards, i go home, look through my cards, and work out what tweaks i can make to avoid losing the same way again.
I think my worst experience is pretty easy. There was some guy I played against at locals once who was...unpleasant to go against, in pretty much every way. He had a NSFW mat and field center that made me uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything since I didn't want to start our match off with tension. Even if I give the benefit of the doubt that he just didn't quite know how his cards worked and wasn't intentionally trying to cheat, there were definitely times where it was clear he was trying to twist things in his favor as much as possible. One example is that I activated an effect that sent his traptrix sera to the gy, he responded with a trap, and then on resolution argued that sera could trigger (from the gy) because a trap was activated while she was on the field. He kept arguing it and I eventually just let him do it since I was in a winning position anyway. He didn't outright yell or anything but was acting visibly annoyed when he did lose, too. That's definitely an outlier case though. Most of the people I play against are fun and cause no problems. The people at my locals mostly fall into 2-3 friend groups so games are often full of banter. People smack talk and what not, but I don't see anybody getting genuinely upset over losing or gloating to anybody other than friends who are in on it. Whether people like it or not, yugioh is inherently a social game, you directly interact with another person in a 1-on-1 scenario and have to clearly communicate information to each other in order to progress and maintain the game state. There is nothing you can do to bypass or ignore that, short of having a simulator like master duel that handles all the inputs and rulings for you. Whenever you play in paper, you necessarily have to be able to functionally cooperate with your opponent, or else you won't have a game
I think the Evenly Matched bluff question depends on how aggressively you try to talk your opponent into firing I:P. If you just ask to go to Battle Phase, without explicitly stating you have an intention to use Evenly Matched, then it's your opponent making a read on your play. You haven't misrepresented the gamestate, you've made a legal move, in an attempt to bait out your opponent's interaction. If, however, you make a show of how good your topdeck was, then proceed to Battle smugly, for example, then that might be misconstruing the gamestate. Bluffs are allowed. You can set Normal Spells to look like trap cards! Your opponent could justifiably assume those face-downs do something! Same goes for tactical usage of phase changes, imo.
Not gunna lie if a lose in masterduel I’ll instantly cuss out my opponent (who can’t hear it) and their deck. To me it’s a stress reliever. But in person duels I don’t think I’ve ever disrespected anyone after a duel. Maybe a little less excited or happy about dueling because obviously you want to win. But I focus more on my play and my deck flaws when it comes to in person duel vs masterduel when I complain and just want to full power speedroid
Yeah you're not doing any harm by letting off steam w cussing @ a simulator, it's how you act in settings where you see the other player that matters. So many other people don't understand that balance
The I:P Masquerena thing of going to battle to bait it, I feel is still a viable strategy. It may seem scummy, but it's legal to do, so why not go for all options? The thing about holding to think when nothing can be activated, however, I feel is not legal and is very much scummy. It's making that turn's player take longer than it needs to. The counting specials for Nibiru is different. I don't think it's a bad thing to count it, especially if you have it in the deck. Also, it makes the turn player be reminded of what could stop/halt their plays and wonder if they should do 5 or more summons. Yet it ultimately it doesn't halt the turn completely. They can still make whatever plays they want.
Baiting and bluffing are genuine tactics for play since you never know what your opponent is going to drop on you, but intentionally slow playing or stalling is absolutely scummy behaviour, especially if you're going to win via time-out - it's not illegal, but it's definitely the kind of thing someone who's a poor sport would do. If you're going to wombo-combo and bring out more than five monsters in one turn, you can't exactly be mad when a Nibiru nukes your field since that's exactly what it's meant for, it all really comes down to predicting whether your opponent has it in their hand or not and taking that gamble.
This is one of the big reasons I like masterduel more as a way to play Yu-Gi-Oh. Because the game had a lot of rule ambiguity, so having it done for you clears a lot of the confusion :V
I have 2 stories that came to my mind. 1, at a regionals I was playing against a guy, whenever he would cut my deck he would shuffle it, but he would look down and look at my cards while he was shuffling. I asked him to stop, and he just said "Oh yeah, sorry my bad." And kept doing it. I called a judge over, but the judge knew him personally, so he pretty much just told him to knock it off. I just quit and told another judge but nothing ever came of it. 2, at another regionals, my opponent was way nicer, he won game 1, so we were on game 2, and suddenly I had to pee really bad. I asked him "Hey, I'll just sign the sheet and but can you watch my stuff while I go to the bathroom?" And he was totally ok with it. Absolute bro.
I can relate to the high tension in the YGO sphere. At my locals it seemed like there was maybe one or two people who really wanted to play there for fun and then all the other people were there for full competitive YGO. And while there is nothing wrong with it as it was certainly a competitive scene I was going to on a short weekly basis, the stress was definitely palpable. Maybe when the Snakes-Eyes stuff is over I'll finally come back to locals but for the time being I am not holding my breath to return.
For me I like to joke around a bit and have fun but I also read the room. Sometimes I see my opponent wants to be more serious I respect it and I go along with it but I have had opponents that joke around with me and it is a good time. Win or lose the goal is to have fun even in a competitive setting and usually majority of the time I have had great experiences with my opponents at events and locals.
Worst thing on MD is for me : • People surrendering when they're about to lose to a an old school super respectful (not stall, not anti-meta, not floodgate, not exodia) deck.
Yeah that's my problem, I like casual decks but the only locals near me is very competitive so if I go there it just feels bad cause I don't really get to play the game. That said the players are nice, but I'm not on their level and don't really want to be.
@millermcd Honestly, same here. I've been to maybe 2 locals, but both times I went, while the people there were fine, I just got stomped. It's turned me off from playing competitive.
I get that. I love in Kansas City, and no gaming community has any chill. Yugioh locals are all tier 1 or 0 decks. No room to take a rogue strategy and even win a single round. Even the smash community here is cut throat. It can still be fun, but it can be hard to enjoy the games when 99% of the people that show up are going as hard as they can at all times.
Well, I'm not a judge. But I think this baiting (implying one has an Evenly by going stright into battle phase) should be totally fine, since you are simply taking a gamble here. There is the possibility that the opponent doesn't use their quick-effects, so you can not stay in main phase one. That means you have simiply forced yourself to skip your own battle phase and thus have to do your main combo in main phase two. Also, about Nibiru, I remember, once I told someone that I have heard that you are not allowed to say "If you summon one more time, I will Nibiru you." However you are technically allowed to say "Wait, summon number what was it? Oh, it was just summon number four yet. OK."
It's more the fact that Yu-Gi-Oh should be a card game that involves strategy, not psychological warfare and mind gaming. Legal or not putting an idea in someone's head to affect their gameplay doesn't sit right with me
@@ShadowFlame74 I mean, psychological warfare and mind games are part of strategy? Like baiting out interruptions from your opponent by making think they're disrupting something important before pivoting into a totally different line for example. I'm not saying like counting out loud while you don't have Nibiru in hand, but the game has had those kind of meta games ever since its inception. Same as any other competitive card/board game
I get what you're saying, but the entire point of quick play, traps, and hand traps are that your opponent doesn't know what you have. Don't play a card game if you don't like bluffing. Suggesting that it's not okay to set a spell to make your opponent think you have a trap when you don't has been part of the game since day one. If you have a problem with these kind of things, then card games aren't for you.
Ive been collecting yugioh for about 2 years now and I’ve finally just started attending locals. I’m so ecstatic that I’m just playing with other people who share my hobby, I don’t care if I win or lose. I definitely don’t take the game too seriously and can’t imagine ever getting upset over losing, there’s so many variables that can result in a win or loss that ultimately come down to luck. But I also mirror the the energy of the person I’m playing against, if they’re also very chill and not taking it too seriously then I’ll act myself but if they’re very serious, I’ll tone it down.
Well said! The card shop where I played official YuGiOh tournaments had really respectful players. I learned the way to good sportsmanship from the calm and energetic ambiance (for lack of a better word). This was the first time I played against human players irl as an adult. The good sportsmanship drove me to wanting to participate more, where I may have been turned away if I saw bad sportsmanship
When I played standard format I loved rocking Dinomorphia, the cards are awesome looking and I'm a huge fan of dinosaurs. The floodgates weren't my favorite part of the deck but I did like how the deck functioned overall. However I hated the round time issue that happened almost every single round. People would see that there wasn't much time in the round in game 3, play more slowly than normal, and I'd lose since I'm always at a low LP total with the deck. Honestly kind of turned me away from playing in general, I could never outright call someone out for playing slow.
Yugioh should be a fun game but a lot of people who play it don't view it as fun, but rather a chore. It also seems to attract a strangely toxic crowd, (see the recent YCS).
@@starjadiancloneinvestigato1772there were a few voiceless voice players who cheated by picking up the opponents card, then putting it in a different monster zone (they run a card where columns are very relivent)
@amesarecool9280one even went directly into anima after "reading" and placing the opponents card into the column above where anima is going to be, funny stuff
THIS! My worst experiance that made me go strictly digital with MD. I went to Locals with Dark Magician main gimmick being Dm The Dragon Knight + Eternal's Souls effect and when he read both cards called me a few slurs and threw my deck. I have never felt so embarrassed in my life in a place i considered safe. And it killed lgs's for me as that guy just let loose with various things that make my skin crawl. Its a game not a fight to the death, no one makes 500K+ for winning a LGS tourney. Some duelists just dont need to be in these events if they cant be a manchild about a deck they dont like. And then proceed to throw another players deck is just grounds for banning. Anyways enough of my rambling great vid, and I wish everyone good luck on their duels! Game On!!
What annoys me, as a new player that's unfamiliar with all the cards, is when my opponent doesn't announce what their card is doing while they're doing combos. Like how am I supposed to learn as a player?
I don't know if this counts as bad sportsmanship but right when I got back into yugioh I had a red-eyes deck going up against a sky striker player. I'd never seen a link monster until now and I had no idea the game speed had advanced so much. Once his turn started, he was on full auto pilot mode, speeding through every card without saying more than 1 or 2 words, and every time I would ask what the card did, he would sigh loudly and get aggravated as he explained each card effect.
One of the worst things I ever had I sat down and my opponent first thing he said is don't touch my stuff really mean The player takes 5 minutes to do one thing but gets mad at you when you take 3 seconds to do one thing And when you catch someone shooting in a spaz out Quitting cuz you didn't get your best hand The guy talks about everything but the game they are actually playing
Part of this comes back to the age old problem of card games and tabletop games being a common pursuit for people with poor social skills. Especially as these things became more mainstream, some of the typical behaviours of these communities became less acceptable as more "regular" people joined the hobby. It's not everyone and it doesn't excuse bad behaviour, but it is part of the puzzle, I think. Then there are the people for whom winning the game against them is poor sportsmanship. People are very invested in the game and their decks. Especially for a big event, they may have spent a lot of time, money and effort putting together their decks and getting there. Then you have the audacity to beat them. How dare you!
To be honest, moderation is key. I'd consider myself pretty nerdy and into some niche hobbies, but I also work a job and exercise, talk to family, etc. I feel like when it comes to humans, its always an extreme. This is a generalization but for example: Either people can be super extroverted and do things like play sports or go out to bars and may be "well-adjusted", or they are super nerdy and would be considered "basement dwellers" who don't take showers and have horrible acne. Again, this is generalization but I suppose the stereotypes are there for a reason if people have encountered it enough. We love to categorize and sort people/groups and I don't think this is something that will ever truly be resolved since its encoded into our being, but I think we can definitely bridge the gap a bit. If only it was as easy as "have fun, learn what you can and take care of yourself, regardless of what your lot in life is" but it never is that easy.
@KryselITG Stereotypes do exist for a reason, but most people are not the extremes. Most people do have a good balance. And I have known good-looking, sporty people who are also extremely nerdy and... people on the other extreme, who have no nerdy interests whatsoever. My point was that in the past these hobbies have appealed to all sorts of people, but were often, and to an extent remain, something of a refuge for those who, for a myriad of reasons, find themselves to be social outcasts. Such people often have poor social skills that may be misinterpreted as poor manners or sportsmanship by the wider community, even if no ill-will was intended (for most people. Anyone can be a jerk.)
@fersW I just blame the esports mentality in general. This game doesn't even have cash prices, there's no reason to get this salty when you're only bleeding money to compete in this game. Like, this isn't League of Legends, chill.
The fact that a lot of autistic people (dont mean that as an insult just genuinely referring to the illness) are also attracted to TCG's and they are all in a room together doesn't help either.
What we've got here is the ol' Sportsmanship vs Gamesmanship argument, your attitude and behaviour towards playing a game and what you feel is most important: Sportsmanship is the old adage of "It's not solely about winning, it's about having a good time and playing our best," the attitude of fair play and respect towards your opponents while giving it your all, and ending your games with a handshake and a compliment. Gamesmanship is the mindset of "Winning is all that matters," doing whatever it takes to get that W, including bending the rules and abusing loopholes without explicitly cheating, or just generally being a bad sport like making excuses about how things ended up or talking smack about your opponent's deck or play style and be the most likely to flip the table after a particularly bad match. Basically it's the difference between the person who always says "GG" after a game, and the one who says "GG EZ" when they win and cusses everyone else out when they lose. You can't really be too mad if someone is playing the game the way the cards let them like floodgates or unbreakable boards, but it's very understandable to be upset when that person is purposely slow playing when they know they can win on time-outs or they're trying to mess with your flow by distracting you while you're trying to concentrate on your combos, and especially when they pull petty nonsense like loudly complaining about bad hands or insisting "You can't use different sleeves for your Main and Extra Decks!" even though Konami ruled you absolutely can (only the Side Deck needs to be sleeved the same as the Main Deck.) Of course everyone wants to win, there's always winners and losers in any game, but people will be more eager to play with you again if you treat them how you'd want to be treated rather than only caring about the W and making their play experience simply unbearable in order to get there.
One of my worst memories of bad sportsmanship is where I'm not sure which one of us actually had it and who was to blame, me or my opponent. It was my friend and only duelling partner at the time and I continiously developed my deck recipe until it was kind of unbalanced and we played a lot of duells over the weeks and months of which he lost more than he won. With him occasionally winning by destroying a boss monster of mine with "Ring of Destruction". A card I gave to him to use, it had the original text before the changes and one day when the situation came up for him to use it as the errata says, I mentioned "oh btw, I randomly saw that the card text had been updated and nerfed a while ago. you actually cant do that, but go for it now. Im just saying for the future." He was kind of tense to begin with and reacted very irritated, saying with lots of salt "I dont care what the new text says, Im using it as it is stated right here. this is bs" ...we continued arguing because I was annoyed by his stubborness and thought this kind of attitude was a very bad fundament for playing this game together. he was probably annoyed with me because he felt I tried to have a high win ratio by taking away another win condition, one of the few he had left against my deck. We played less Yugioh after that. so what do you think? imo he should have just accepted the offical ruling and try to improve his deck with better cards like I did and get over it.
I’ve also experienced this in Pokémon and Digimon, but when my opponents gives an almost snappy “ok” or “yup” to my plays just comes off so rude and aggressive.
It sort of depends on whether they've just been following your plays and are agreeing to you continuing since they can't/don't want to interrupt yet, or if they're just hurrying you through your turn so they can get to theirs - nobody likes being made to feel like they're being rushed, especially when they're trying to plan out certain plays. If you feel it's getting bad, you shouldn't be afraid to say "I don't mean to be rude, but you were getting a bit snappy about my plays and I didn't like it," in case they didn't mean to be and they apologise for it - "It's not what you say, it's how you say it," and all that.
I am not going to locals or anything, but I do feel like me proclaiming I have a bad hand is something I need to stop doing. It's not just a potential fake out, but it comes off as a bad sport
Buddy an I where at a shop when the local folks were coming in. The one guy we talked to had a visual negative reaction when we said, "for the most part we play causal so we dont feel the need for ash blossom" Which is true, my friends an i don't need ash blossom. We arent running 1000 dollar decks. We each have several play sets of ash so we can, but to us, its fun to see what the deck avross the table can do. We are going to duel at the locals night next Tuesday hopefully and i plan on taking my exosisters who is my "competitive" strong deck
Misleading your opponent is never cheating or bad sportsmanship. A main rule in competition/war is never trust your opponent. It's your fault if you fall for your opp's bluff.
You're right and wrong at the same time, you're allowed to say whatever you want, but I am free to ask a judge if you keep counting my summons out loud, he will tell you to shut up during my turn if it's not for clarification, you don't need to talk over my plays to count my cards and the angleshooting isn't the point in that case
your comment on 'people having more respect and have more pressure to be *good*' really reminded me of the Analysis that Folding Ideas did called "Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft". I'll try and summarise the best I can. There is a tension between Instrumental play (becoming 'good' or preforming 'well') and free play (mostly everything else like casual collection, liking the art and other media etc), where instrumental play becomes the implied value of the game (aka YGO is FOR getting good at it, instead of it as a whole entire game worth of play) People, especially gamers, have a tendency to optimise the fun out of games as well which then leads to more implied value on being 'good at the game', and more negative reaction towards perceived 'bad play' or play the game in not a strict competitive and optimised 'correct way'. Although there IS fun and fulfillment in getting better at a skill, and that is a good reason to enjoy a game, it isn't the ONLY way to enjoy YGO, even if it is the only way some enjoy it. I personally have a more casual enjoyment of YGO, pulling cards and browsing and learning different cards, but I can still appreciate and have fun with the more competitive side of it. I don't think my enjoyment has inherently more or less value or correctness than someone that is fully invested in competitive or just likes the show, because we all are enjoying the same thing at the end of the day. TLDR: Enjoy games how you like to enjoy them, let people enjoy the game as they like to enjoy them, and try not belittle people for being too 'casual' or 'sweaty', but do call out people being rude and belittling people
I go to play for fun and joke around with my opponent if I can, especially if its someone I've played against often which extends to my personal gripe. My locals tends to do random pulls and the last 5 times I went I always got the same opponents or a free win because someone left early. It got to the point I joked with the judge/shop owner that I didn't want the free win I wanted to lose like a man and he told me back in a silly way "No, you'll take the W and like it."
My only pet peeve is trying to do extra summons and combos when I’m clearly conceding, like bruh I’m not about to watch you do a 5 minute turn, I got 300lp 😂
It’s so infuriating! They’ll have enough damage on board for game, you’ll see your hand is practically dead so you pass turn, and then they enter Main Phase 1… and just start going ham! Into a long ass combo that is already excessive for the 1 hand/trap you might have?? Just fucking kill me, my board is empty, why are you keeping me hostage?! And in Master Duel, I have to either let them keep me there for another 2 minutes or I surrender because it’s pointless and receive absolutely NOTHING for that entire duel. Absolute rubbish.
Magic the Gathering player here. Just figured I'd share my fun sportsmanship story. Was playing commander online with random people. Had my dragon deck. One of the opponents was running a hydra deck. They managed to pull off a Villainous Wealth for 18. Managed to get an Utvara Hellkite, The dragon that makes copies of dragons when they ETB, Scourge of the Throne and a few others. I just laughed and the table had fun with it
Coming from competitive mtg to yugioh the reactions to bluffing are, to my mind, insane. Your point about the I:p is a fantastic example of a great bluff, they either call it and you skip your battle phase that turn or they play into the bluff and get played. Its just another skill that players should have in their repertoire. In mtg one of our all time best players used his on field resources to represent making a token to block but actually had a boardwipe he could activate with those same resources in his hand. He pulled the token from his deck box and messed with it, signaling an intention to make it to block, the opponent played into that signal and got punished. It was at the time widely considered to be a brilliant play. The consepts of sportsmenship in mtg vs yugioh is so wildly different, like in mtg it mostly boils down to "Don't get salty and accept defeat with grace and dont rub victory into an opponents face" so yugiohs version is just such a wildly foreign concept to me.
There's already vids out there talking about how YGO would see that exact form of bluff as bad sportsmanlike conduct and punish you for it. Whilst mind-games and tricking opponents into making bad moves is a great skill to have in games or...life in general...when they essentially threaten you with a game/match loss/booting for doing it, that's kinda shitty...and Yugioh is no stranger to making rules that are shitty for their players. lol, I mean...they even did mind-games like that in the anime, but ya know, "The anime isn't a good representation of the TCG/OCG official card game".
@@SageTigerStar learned bluffing was illegal when in one of my first big tournaments I started off handedly to the side started tracking summons on a d6. Got dq'ed. I was more flabbergasted then angry because the idea of a card game that exists without bluffing was so foreign to me.
So far I've never had a bad experience But the best experience was when me and 2 other guys were teaching a kid to play at a shop. We originally went for a tournament but were abit late. We ended up hanging out during the tournament and i gave abunch of my unused cards to the kid. Dude has potential too
I'm a super talkative person in my matches, even at larger events or in top tables, I'm just an outgoing person and that's just how I am. And even though I'm there to compete and do well the reason I go to the tournament if to have fun at the end of the day. I try to keep most my talk about things outside of the actual context of the match, maybe their sleeves or mat or the rarity of a card. A lot of people are happy to talk about this stuff that they probably put time into deciding on. Or ill mention if they use a cool tech I haven't seen much, if they have a nuts opening Ill make a comment on it, or if they have a really bad one ill give my condolences. And ill do the same for my own plays sometimes, but generally try to keep it until after I have made my plays. For one I don't wanna lie to my opponents and cause issues, but also I don't want them to know I have a good or bad hand or that I messed up a play or got a good read until after so that they might not be able to just be handed the right way to play against it by my words. But I also recognize that a lot of players are not as social and the fact that I don't look like your average YuGiOh! player and I know that I often can come off as intimidating, so I try to get a read on the opponent early and see how much interacting I should be doing with them. Same goes for in game stuff like if they communicate every single phase change even when it's not relevant then I will too, if they always do an intricate cut then I will too, if they ask for a response to every effect even when not necessary then I will too, if they do multiple searches before shuffling or shuffle after each one then I will too. Its about making them feel comfortable so that they will be less combative and generally give you less issues. I've made a few friends at different YCS's and regionals and also played with people I hope I never see again, its just how the game is, but I very often have a good experience in my matches even when I lose and regularly get complements from people I beat saying they still had fun or that they'd like to play with me more. I'll also add that the entering battle phase to maybe force an IP is a super legit play and in my opinion, sportsman like. They can react if they want or not if they don't. If they don't and you enter battle and immediately enter MP2 you're not at a disadvantage on the turn and the other way around they are at the disadvantage but also generally less so than you would be if they called it right, its not really any different then playing in a reckless/suboptimal way on purpose to bate interaction or have them hold it off by feigning that you do or do not have certain cards in hand. This comes down to meta and gameplay knowledge on both sides and if your opponent reads through you or sometimes even just don't notice what you're trying to do then you'll be even worse off because of it. Completely different than the Nib counting summons thing where you're doing this via a non gameplay action and are at no disadvantage if they do call your bluff/not notice it
Won't lie I've come a long way since Mendenhall, had my share of duels, filled with salt and all. I used to get decently tilted when I'd get completely sacked, but over time even I learned sometimes it's just the state of the game. You're right, 100%, no point in getting tilted when a certain deck comes up or just a board of negates, sometimes you can even play past it and even surprise yourself with how far you come in that duel, even when losing. I actually recently got a couple of people in the game recently, and as much as I fear Unchained, one of them started with it and I gave them every possible insight to the decks capabilities, even if It meant my favorite, Blackwings, could get outted massively by them. It helped me learn what plays I have to do to get around it, rather than sit there tense and worried over the opponent's deck. I think the biggest thing is, realising that we aren't the best player, have much to learn even as veterans of the game, supporting one anothers climb to the top, even when we are another rung of the ladder sometimes for each other~
The “evenly matched” bluff has happened to me I had Empen and trap to normal summon set and harpie trap set 3 cards total Opponent attempt to enter battle phase I freak out of evenly flip trap to normal summon and end on avian and Empen with harpie trap set Got super poly and left with trap unable to activate Got otk Never failing for it again 😅
As someone who grew up playing sports and just got into TCGs i treat it the same way. Wish your opponent good luck and after whoever wins shake hands and go on about your business. Of course they will be times were you think you’ve been cheated or wrong but al you can do is control what you can.
I went to my first ever tournament a couple weeks ago and the I got the genuine pleasure of my first ever tournament duel was against a judge who actually worked for the same company as me so we ended up bonding over that before our round. When we dueled he chatted with me and he had seen my deck prior and said that he was familiar with my cards even before seeing my deck so he said I didn't have to explain my effects, which put less pressure on me as a new tourney duelist. He did end up beating me in our first duel but I did actually manage to hit him for around 6K damage before he beat me, and he was very kind and supportive and told me that a few of my plays did actually catch him off guard to where he had no counter. Second round was a complete wipe on my end and it wasn't remotely close, I believe I was OTK'd. But he told me that unfortunately that is a bit common now in the game and how the game isn't the same as it was when I was very into it (I told him before I was very involved during the GX era). But overall it was a nice experience.
I personally enjoy the game whether I win or lose. I like the topic you bring up from bluffs on Main Phase effects like “I:P” against “Evenly Matched”.
I left yugioh during Pepe tier 0 almost a decade back. Just recently went to a local for the first time since and I played this Ice Jade player in R3 that had such a bad attitude the entire match that I was like, I can't do this anymore. I since then have switched to pokemon tcg because at least I don't have to actively communicate with someone that is an asshole just to make it through my turn in the PTCG
Good sports are always great to see online. My favorite game of Magic Arena ended with an opponent who, rather than just concede, targeted himself with a burn spell to end the game. They probably had more fun losing that game than most people do winning. Bluffing seems standard in any card game though. The whole point of having a hand of cards is that you know what you're holding and your opponent doesn't, and you can insinuate whatever you want about it. Anything that depends on the contents of the other player's hand should come with a reveal though, because you shouldn't need a third party to settle those things.
I guess my question is why is bluffing, intimidating, or distracting your opponent bad? As long as you aren't being openly rude or abusive or breaking any kind of rule, psychological tactics are part of any game or battle. I have recently started playing games with others (especially strangers/randoms) less in general because some people are just that toxic, annoying, and arrogant. I understand why people's demeanor can ruin things for someone, but I don't think trying to make your opponent think your hand is bad, or asking them "are you sure you want to do that?" Or stupid things like that are all that dangerous. It's about the same as putting a useless spell face down so the opponent thinks you might at least have something to surprise them with. These mind games have crafted some player's entire strategies around just going for a play anyway even if it's possible their opponent has disruptions or traps.
I've only ever been upset about a time loss with full combo in hand I like to open a pack or 2 with my opponents after decisive wins it helps lighten the mood
Whether I'm playing Yugioh or Magic or whatever, I'm going out to play for the interaction. It's a social thing, it's just an excuse to get out of the house. Having competitive matches and potentially winning is cool. But really, as long as I have chatting, shooting the shit, making jokes, and just keeping the mood up, that's all I care about. To that end, the most fun-ruining thing you can do sitting across from me is just go into full try-hard, ultra-serious mode. No social interaction, no commentary, no feedback, just playing through the mechanics of the game to get to end. Bonus points if you're only your phone or talking to someone not playing the game while its my turn.
I would say a lot of the sportsmanship stuff is context dependent and is really about being a respectful communicator. like the nerves & atmosphere will be different at locals vs big tournaments, and how 2 people interact will be different depending on what they're comfortable with. Like I can imagine people who regularly have 'shoot the shit' games will just default to that playing at other places, and it's more about acknowledging whether your opponent is comfortable with that or not, and if they aren't then respecting their choice to not engage that way. Also dealing with losses can suck depending on how it goes down, especially depending on how your day has gone so far. like I could imagine people being hella frustrated if they lose their 5th match that day to some floodgate stun deck.
Duels can leave me feel like I can't breathe sometimes, so I love it when my opponents are more talkative. It removes the tension for me and reminds me that it's just a game. I agree with your views on sportsmanship, but some plays feel outright dirty or malicious. I had someone make a full board of negates with Darkworld and that was fine, but then they went and handlooped me because they could. I needed a minute to compose myself after that, and just need to distance my feelings with the game overall.
I would say in the case of Evenly, you aren't misrepresenting the game state. Yes the idea is you wouldn't normally enter the battle phase without a reason, but you can freely move to the next phase as you choose. It's almost like baiting out interaction. I think where it crosses the line is when you start threatening illegal plays. I'd say you've crossed the line if you say, "I want to go to the battle phase." then start grabbing at a card in hand that can't be activate during the battle phase. Most forms of legal bluffing in Yugioh is boarderline BM, like asking if your opponent summoned five times without nib in hand, but as long as you don't misrepresent the game state it's techinically legal.
I have to say that stuff like going into battlephase to fake an evenly or faking a nibiru is something that surprised me quite a lot going into yugioh by how badly it is seen. I'm the type of person who see these type of stuff as just outplaying/bluffing and see it as totally fine but I know a lot of players absolutely hate it. And even konami forbidding to fake stuff like "hey I have nibiru" or whatever is something I still find weird. But ig yugioh is complex enough by itself to want to play mind games with ur opponent too 😅
My experience with sportsmanship in YGO is best described with playing against Synchron at locals and getting burned when it was time on the round. That was the last time I played irl.
I think if you approach duels as a Duel Quiz, then it softens the blow of losing. Its like a puzzle. And also, throwing out a “Dang, good game!” with a smile and going for a handshake is best practice for losing in my opinion
Regarding the rules about bluffing, and the spirit of the rule, the rule of thumb I'd give is that if your bluff is something that can be read from just the plays of the duel then it's legal. You can bluff via game mechanics, but not through what would be considered out-of-game actions. In the IP example, declaring that you're entering battle phase is using no out-of-game actions to imply that you have Evenly Matched and thus it is legal. The token example is also one where if you are using tokens explicitly to try and mislead the opponent then it's illegal, but if you're just using a token it's fine. Because you can't prove intent in this situation, as long as you don't TELL someone you're using a token/sleeve/mat/whatever to try and mislead opponents it's fine. It's kind of case by case as well. Suppose you are playing Edison format (and are using the current rules around bluffing) and you're running Lightsworn. You have engaged in multiple battles and not declared "damage step." If you do not have Honest but decide at one point to declare "damage step" to bait an action from your opponent, I think this would be considered an attempt to deliberately misrepresent the game state - because by NOT declaring damage step in your usual battles, the purpose of doing it here is only to imply you have a card you can activate at that point. Basically if you're acting in good faith and making sure that you don't deliberately do something that might misrepresent the game state then you don't have to worry about it.
@eller The issue isn't declaring the steps of battle, it's the action of deliberately doing it when you previously weren't. Technically you're SUPPOSED to declare every part of damage calculation but many people don't simply because it's not relevant for most gameplay. To deliberately choose to declare "damage step" to try and trick the opponent into thinking you have Honest is the type of activity that the rules disallow. Even if you have been declaring phases the action could be to simply put emphasis on "damage step" that would still be illegal because you are DELIBERATELY trying to call attention to "this specific damage step is going to be different." And counting summons is explicitly against the rules. "Duelists may not answer questions or offer information about Game State information that is considered Private Knowledge. Duelists may not make false statements about the game or gameplay, even about information that is considered Private Knowledge. Duelists may not perform actions that would intentionally mislead their opponent or a tournament official about the Game State. " On its face, counting summons in a very noticeable manner to imply you have Nibiru either is doing this (if you don't have it) or is breaking rules on private knowledge (if you do have it). Counting summons isn't illegal, but doing it in a way that you're signaling to the opponent "I'm counting summons" IS. One example given: "Misrepresenting the Game State: A Duelist mentions they are running a certain card which is not currently considered to be Public Knowledge, with the intent to influence their opponent’s actions. " It doesn't have a Nibiru example in the rulebook just yet but Nibiru is the most blatant, most clear example of misrepresenting the game state because counting summons is only important for Nibiru - it's just flatly, unambiguously against this rule.
Story time: About 6 months ago I started playing yugioh at my local shop. And at the time the traptrix structure came out so I decided to bring it to play. It took a couple of times before I got my first win in a match. However it came at a cost. Keep in mind i am black and was def the only one amongst this group. Ik it sounds random but just stick with me here. My first ever win was against this guy who I rarely seen at the shop and he was playing pendulums. Everything was going good in the first match until I ended up resolving floodgate trap hole on his pendulum summon of 4 monsters. He wasn’t upset about it at first until I passed the turn back to him and he tried to flip the monsters face up on the start of his turn. For those who don’t know, you can’t change the positions of the monsters that were flipped with floodgate. But my opponent had a really hard time understanding that even after reading the card. It basically ended up with the guy getting so visibly and audibly frustrated, that EVERYONE stopped what they were doing to see the scene this guy was causing. So much so, that he ALMOST called me a slur in the middle of his rant. If the store owner hadn’t stepped in to calm him down I feared that he would’ve actually done it. Long story short, I got yelled at for activating floodgate trap. Great sportsmanship 😭
Thanks for sharing! That's honestly one of the reasons why I've never had a desire to go to locals, even as a person who really enjoys playing Yugioh. Stuff like that would be my nightmare scenario, and the person sitting across from you at the table can completely change the tone of a given game that you're playing, for better and for worse
@@benjilenett2851 I agree it’s unfair and it’s always unpredictable going into any game but I honestly been enjoying TCG so much. I mean we’re kinda spoiled by master duel and other online simulators to where we don’t have genuine interactions with people when playing the game. Yes the situation was a complete disaster but I look back on it as a good memory. Without that situation happening I wouldn’t have been as close to the other people at the shop as I am now. And I also wouldn’t have a reason to always have floodgate trap hole as my field center.
in regards to the IP, move to battle phase for evenly thing. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that at events, you both have to agree? normally if I was in main phase 1 and wanted to leave to battle, I say "attempt to move to battle phase" or "attempt to move to end phase" ect. If they say yes, that's it your green light to be in it, if they say "oh wait I have a response" then its too late as they verbally agreed to moving phases. I think that ties well into sportsmanship because some people at my locals don't go through the phases they just jump straight to battle or end after the draw phase which can be annoying.
Me when I win: whispers “Wow, I actually won?” Me when I lose:”Well done, that was cool to see you do your thang!” I enjoy watching opponents cook (unless I’ve seen the same combo for 3 hours straight lol)
I think the only time ive ever been unsportsmanlike to an opponent was when i was on Zombie World and they were on Floowandereeze. They proceeded to slow play me into oblivion and activated Advent in time and offered the handshake because he was ahead on life. I have never come so close to wanting to throttle someone in my life.
Just recently had a major discuss with a really good friend. I'm a more competitive player while he's not. He doesn't understand that drawing testhands will help him with playing and he refuses to do it. So he mainly practises on me and it take him sooo long to take actions. Even if I never played a deck after maybe 5 games I could play each of his decks. Not perfect but for sure much faster. So the last game we played I played Lab and he played performerpals. I made the basic Lab combo and passed. Played a total of 18 effects (most of them were chains) until we got into that discussion. The game was running for about 80minutes when I started to argue that he's playing way to slow. So basically I had about 7min playtime in a 80min game. Haven't played since that again though. I know it's harsh but we're playing since 2018 together and it's always been this way.
When someone sets up an unbreakable board on me and then Ash Blossoms my cards on top of that in Masterduel i'd be the most unsportsman like person ever if they heard me on the mic but if the game actually goes long like 10 turns and its nose to nose after the duel even if i lost i'd wanna shake the oppenent's hand for the great game. I get thats not the game anymore but i just wanna have a back and forth duel where im not dead on turn 1.
Some of my favourite duels on Master Duel are in Gold/Low Plat where everyone is just competent enough to play the game but also juuuust casual enough that you’ll find a variety of decks. I’ve been graced with games that last 10-20 turns and every moment is nail-biting just waiting to see who can draw into a combo or removal tool to shake up the game state. Even when I lose those I feel like I have to commend my opponent. Shame there’s no way to do so in game.
@neferacronia6798 seriously I hate ranking up cause everyone just uses the same two OP decks over and over again. Meanwhile I'm playing something like Gravekeepers for the fun of it just praying I can go first at least to have a chance
back in the day I used to play drytron and this one guy would pick up every. single. card. that I put on the field and read it. And the thing with drytron is theres a lot of moving parts coming on and off the field so whenever he stopped to read my cards I would have to stop and let him so I can move it in my next play. That's fine, slow player wants to know what my cards do whatever, the horrible part is him saying "you can keep going while I read" when I can't keep going while my moving parts aren't where they're meant to be, and he put the blame on me when we ran out of time despite the fact my combo lasts less than a minute if I'm not interrupted. Then he had the audacity to get pissy when I wanted to ask the judge a ruling question, even though I didn't stop the duel and just wanted to know something irrelevant. Now on the flip side, some good sportsmanship: some decks I hate playing against like tearlament and runic, but when I'm going up against a funny fella I can crack jokes with and talk shit back and fourth with is so much fun that I don't mind when they play a deck that I don't like. I think sportsmanship is extremely important in this game full of sack and rules and tense situations. I would much rather go against the most annoying deck in the game piloted by a comedian than go against a boring, easily beaten deck piloted by a brick wall
What attracts me to the content from APS so heavily are the classic Yu-Gi-Oh duels: Using structure decks from the 2010's, very little hand traps and playing a much slower paced game. The strategy lies in card management, as well as constantly maintaining a strong offence and defense, wheras what I observe from the current meta is that a great deck and game is determined by how effectively and often you can stop your opponent from making extended and interesting plays. Which in my experience, is stopping players from doing what makes the game fun. I full agree with your statements on sportsmanship, people shouldn't imply they do or don't have certain cards, but I also wish those cards never existed so we would not have this problem. I know there are traditional formats but it would nice to see the largely dominated format encourage both players towering up to decked-out boards and big monsters rather than "if your opponent does anything: they can no longer do that thing" I have been wanting to play at my locals for some time now, but have always been held back by the cost and sticking to this desire to avoid hand traps (this, limiting me to never being able to last more than one turn. This is my first time expressing my thoughts and hesitations. Thank you team APS and Paul for creating an environment that sparks conversation and a community that aims to be understanding.
Idk I always have some kind of interaction during locals that leaves me feeling kind of iffy. The worst one in recent memory was a guy you got visibly upset at the fact I was playing labrynth and said „I feel like I’m getting angry“ and at first I thought he was joking. But then he just kept getting more rude and rude. During the last round he didnt pay attention to anything that I did and just talked to his friends while I was waiting to check if my activations were fine and if he had a response. After his evenly didnt win him the game he just got more upset and said that „the creator of the deck should get sent to a concentration camp“. He probably meant it as a joke and his friends laughed it off but I was left feeling incredibly uncomfortable. Absolute embarrassing behaviour
When I play with my friends, sometimes we just tell the other person some of the cards we have in hand and even what we intend to do with them. Helps us learn how to play around things and figure out if a tech choice works or not. I rather enjoy playing like this and it helps me when I make choices for cards in the deck building process. Not everyone's cup of tea, but its really fun when you and your friend are working on new decks, testing new play lines or trying new tech options.
thats fine when testing, but you really should be getting used to playing without that information (or even just learning how to route in such a way to avoid losing to those cards)
In my first tournament, I told one of the player that is was my first time and I'm not familiar with other decks so I need him to read his effects. He did tell me the effects for 2 turns but then stopped because it was making the game too slow for him. I think about my opponent too so I usually read my effects and he said once with an attitude, "I know what your card does so hurry up." I was shocked he said that to me. It was just rude. Other than that, I had fun and the other opponents were more pleasant and friendly than he was.
_Goddamn._
Ghat dayumn? 😮
Goddaammnnn
Gyatt
I hate that you can’t surrender in Master Duel without getting the finger from Konami
Like that, like that
Paul’s first title for this video was “The Problem with Yugioh and Sportsmanship”, don’t let him fool you
unity + yu-jo friendship (doubt they wash their hands after going to the toilet)@@makingadjustments
The worst form of sportmanship that I experienced was from a guy I was facing during the brand new synchro era. He was losing and was down to his last 100 lifepoints, he played a card facedown attack mode, and said "This is my stardust dragon, just so you know, I don't want anyone to see this ghost rare card. I have had people bugging me for a while to get their hands on this, and just so you know, this is my ghost rare stardust dragon." I had to call over the guy running the tournament and he refused to reveal the card in any form. He was willing to be branded as a cheater just to get the win.
The best form of sportsmanship I've seen is when a 9 year old at my locals drew all 5 pieces of exodia first turn and the entire card shop burst into applause. The kid left feeling really proud of himself.
You can't be mad at the kid, he pulled off what every yugioh player wanted to pull off at least once.
I don't mean to be insulting when I say this but was he autistic by chance? sounds really similar to some of my acquaintances who were diagnosed with it.
@@needahobby6830some kid resolved Time Wizard vs an entire field of monsters when I was playing 60-Card Zombiesworn. Next turn I OTK’d him but still… I let him know it was really cool and it was some anime level play!
That's like 0.4% chance. Daaamn I'd take that loss anyday
The second part of this comment reads like one of those fake tumblr stories "and then the whole school clapped".
One of my fondest memories about suspicious sportsmanship was this time at locals back in 2019.
I was on Salamangreat. My opponent was on Marincess.
They went first and before they made their opening play, they asked me “Hey, buddy if you had Nibiru you’d tell me right?”
I just raised my eyebrow and was like “No…I wouldn’t tell you.”
He was like “oh great, I can just go off.”
And he proceeded to make a full marincess board.
At the end of his main phase, I activated Nib.
Dude was so salty, explaining “wtf dude you told me you didn’t have it!…”
And proceeded to rage quit and leave the tourney….
It still makes me laugh he thought I was displaying poor sportsmanship 😂….
Their skill issue for not making Toad on 5th summon
But jokes aside, i hate it when people do stuff like that. Asking "Do you have Nibiru on hand?", or counting every single summon attempt i make, it's such cringe behavior. If you want to count my summon, just do it in your head without saying it out loud.
But if they lose track of my summon it's fine to ask "How many times summon you've done?", that is as long as they actually have Nibiru.
@@floooowandereese Fun Fact, Asking how many summons an opponent has done and not having Nib in hand is not a Rule Violation. Let's be real what if I want to know how many times a deck can Special Summon or just Summon in General and I don't know beforehand. Yes I know it's a Sus Angle Shooting Tactic but are we gonna keep making a big deal out of this ruling?
@@flacosantana7178 I see your point and i think for that purpose it's completely fine.
What i don't like is when someone intentionally luring their opponent to think "Oh they have Nibiru on hand", prompting them to make suboptimal play.
"Hey, you'd tell me if you had this card that will totally screw over my combo, right?"
Why the hell would anyone tell you that, bro? lol
It's classified as cheating if your opponent asks you beforehand if you have a certain card in your deck.
Never do this, it's plain toxic behavior. An opponents deck must always be unkown. Next time call a judge to disqualify any player pressuring you to reveal a card from ypur deck.
"avenge me" im borrowing this.
As a very casual player, the meta scene of YGO is pretty interesting to me. I'd prefer to get as much value as I can out of my favourite archetypes (Gravekeepers, Toon, Blue Eyes)
A fellow Gravekeeper, you are exactly right.... That's why I love Yugioh Duel Links I get to have fun with all the archetypes even the not so serious ones like I wanna see if I can have fun with a Goblins Deck ya know just experience it all with some fun ppl
Yay, more casual for fun peeps! I want to try meta but its so boring and samey. Love the many archatypes outside of meta.
I got a win in a tournament by the weirdest way. I was playing a guy and I lost my first match. He was playing a very unusual deck, but his moves were legal and it was very cool to watch him pop off. I complimented his deck by basically telling him that's one of the coolest turns I'd seen and he started going off on me.
Because of it it took two judges to calm him down and he was removed from the match and the venue, I was given the win. I heard from someone later that guy was always omega-level salty, abd did not take compliments or insults well at all, he was super arrogant, and even a slight change in his plans always made him explode.
Regarding sportsmanship, at the first local YuGiOh event I went to, I faced off against a Yata-Lock deck in my first round. I brought my burn/heal Fire Princess deck. This person eventually managed to get Yata on the field and asked if I wanted to surrender right then and there. I said no, because by the time he got it out, I had enough of my stall/heal cards out that unless he had something to destroy my spells & traps, there's no way he could do enough damage to me before running out of cards. I won, and yeah, he was not happy at all. The next person I faced had a similar deck to mine and I lost, but he was much more friendly.
Later on, the store owner told me that the person I beat was a judge and had only lost twice all year, including me. It kind of made me realize that I was much more of a casual player than a serious competitor. I just brought that deck for fun because it was my favorite one at the time. But, at the time, a ton of the best players were using Yata until it was banned. I sold the Yata I got in a box to get a lot of other cards I wanted for fun. Anyway, I get why people take it seriously, but I don't think I could ever do so.
One thing that gets me is when the community goes after and kind of throws shade at budget or players who play decks they like I actually stopped going to locals over getting spoken down to by people who are play 1,000$ decks and treat people who don't take it that serious like shit
Awesome story
@@crossdaboss8914my entire locals is like that and it’s awful i just wanna play my heroes and have fun im taking a break till april and i’m putting together spright twins for when i come back
I’ve had my opponent compliment my deck during a tournament once and I’m still super happy about it. That made my day…
Ikr? Those wholesome moments are amazing when they do happen!
When I was a kid, I used to almost always get real upset if I lost at a game, not just Yu-Gi-Oh! This very quickly drove people to steer clear from interacting with me. I used to embarrass myself and those around so much, cause I couldn't pull my head out my own ass, and just enjoy the fact I had someone to play the game with.
So nowadays, I do my best to just take things easy and not take the game too seriously. It feels good to win, and sometimes losing does suck, but at the end of the day, it is just a game, with little to no stakes.
Sadly for some people there are stakes. More rewards at the end of a local shop tournament (and bigger events) is a good enough of a reason for people to discard sportsmanship.
@@AoyagiMeiwell those people need a life
worst was opponent trying to bully me into saying i lost
Had this happen myself. I was fighting for 1st at my locals, got game 1 easily, and after I won game 2, they tried to gaslight me saying we only played a single game. They laughed and said it out loud to a bunch of their friends who were also playing, saying i was trying to cheat and take the match after a single duel. I was so confused why someone would do this, and since the shop didn't have a way to keep track of how many games we played, it was him and his group of friends he got to back him up vs my word as his opponent. We ended up playing 2 more games and he ended up getting the win cuz he opened better in those games. I was pissed af.
At least it's a reason to use paper score trackers, I suppose - it's hard to argue you've only played one game when there's papers with the life point tally on them to prove otherwise.
But yeah, that's just plain shitty behaviour, definitely a "never play this person again" moment.
@@SirFailsalot91very good point!
The game is already unfriendly enough to new players with the complexity and crappy product designs, then on top you have piss poor communities because of all the cliques and bullying that goes on at LGS. 😢
@@SageTigerStar that's another thing ruiling when your at a different locals it just so happens if your card doesn't actually do that
Going into BP without having Evenly is fine and I wouldnt know any argument against it. Even morally its fine, Idk how people could think thats a bad thing
Yeah, I mean you are putting yourself at risk of wasting your battle phase anyway
Worst experience: At a locals recently, I played against someone who spent the majority of my turn essentially mocking me for going through the standard Floo combo line. I would Normal Robina, Search Eglen etc. While I'm making my moves, revealing my search targets, and so on, he is repeating me in a condescending tone. I'm pretty chill and I get that Floo isn't everyone favorite deck to play against, but you don't have to mock me for it.
Best experience: At a box tournament, playing Floo again (which I typically play in more competitive prizing scenarios) I come up against someone playing Snake-Eye/R-ACE. He beats my ass and it wasn't close. Afterward, we pulled my deck apart, completely restructured and he even gifted me copies of Talents and Prosperity.
I would've taken a second to stare @ the first person and be like 'are you OK? if you don't like playing with others solitaire is an option' or something bc they sound insufferable. Sucks you had to deal with that
Second guy sounds real chill. I like people like that
I'd say my best experience with my local YGO community came when I had my collection stolen. This was back when "The Lost Millennium" had been out for about a week, I was young and kept my whole collection in a small plastic case just slightly larger than a Nintendo Gamecube system. Someone from the shop stole it from the table behind me while I was at the counter (they were never seen again after this) but I had really been looking forward to joining in the tournament that day, so a bunch of the players actually went through their stuff and just gave me extras to build a deck with. I was given a set of each original vanilla HERO, 2 Skyscraper, 2 Flame Wingman and Thunder Giants, and a whole common-core of Warrior support cards. I ended up winning that day, not just in the tourney, but feeling a real sense of comradery with the other players. They were also surprised and happy for me, considering what went down just a few hours prior.
“I’m cocky in prediction, I’m confident in preparation, but I am always humble in victory or defeat
I hate that you can’t surrender in Master Duel without getting the finger from Konami
Wdym middle finger from konami?
@@JustCallMeKart I think what they may be referring to is how in Master Duel if you surrender you don't get any rewards or anything. And seeing how surrendering in Master Duel is common, it can probably be frustrating for some players.
Konami really ransoming what little you get for a loss, just because you don't want to sit through a combo people do even when they know for sure they've won. It's so frustrating
@@Boyzby Also I'm positive most of my losses has come from surrendering. Which definitely makes it worse in my eyes. When your staring down an unbeatable board it's much better to just quit which has happened so many times it's essentially most of my loss record
Lol “Thinking” never heard of that one lolzlzlzlz
Competition attracts certain types of people and inevitably either breeds cheating or attracts cheaters. I don't think there is a single competitive scene for anything devoid of cheaters, even in shit with absolutely NO stakes whatsoever, no reward other than the self satisfaction of doing it - speed running is a great example of this. Even in professional athletics and sports, people cheat with things like steroids or finding sneaky and sly ways to break certain rules for advantages over the other team - you even have shit like adderall abusing in professional e-sports like CSGO.
Sometimes, a part of that competitive mindset is doing anything you can to win. If it sounds like I'm demonizing competitive people, it's actually just the opposite - this isn't necessarily a bad trait, it's just an ideology that can be taken too far when it reaches the point of undermining competition entirely (aka cheating). That drive and desire to do anything you can to win is ultimately what makes a lot of competitive players as much of a beast as they are.
It's the divide between sportsmanship, gamesmanship and cheating.
Sportsmanship is the healthy competition where there's respect and fair play between everyone, and enjoying the game for the sake of the game rather than winning.
Gamesmanship is all about winning, even if it means bending the rules or playing dirty without explicitly cheating.
And of course, cheating is just straight up breaking the rules simply because you can and you enjoy doing so, especially if you don't get caught and you win because of it.
The best sportsmanship I have seen is from kids. Most are just happy to play, and they usually have a good attitude, assuming anime protagonists had some influence. The adults are alright, but so many hold a grudge.
Well apparently im 30+ year old kid 😂
The adults described here are the real children
Amazing how the ones that can drive, drink, vote and fight in wars have less self control than small children
I'm glad you brought this up. I was at locals recently. I was facing my opp, but the issue was the opp's buddy had a bye for that round and was talking with us during our match. I informed both that I was just back into Yu-Gi-Oh and I needed to learn the new cards. Well the buddy kept interrupting and asking about my hand and talking about my hand in general. This led to my opp figuring out one of my trap cards. It really hindered me and nearly ruined my time. I was already struggling to keep up with Runick.
His buddy may as well have just had a mirror held up behind you as you played in order to show him your hand. lol
Yeah from the description that sounds like malicious chatting, given it was their friend talking it's a plausibly deniable version of your opponent asking you about your hand, a hidden zone they shouldn't have knowledge of, and it's generally rude to be disruptive like that regardless.
You played Runick, you deserve to have a terrible time.
@@SonicMegaKing You're the problem. Please quit the hobby.
Yu-Gi-Oh is the problem. It should've died years ago but the players cling to nostalgia and are too dumb to quit. So they just stay and whine.
I dont get thrashralking to strangers, and think it should be reserved for when your with friends and people who know it isnt meant to be taken serious. Imagine playing a game and someone tells you you're shit, i dont think it benefits anyone, and just annoys people and/or makes them upset. I dont think it has a place in any sport or hobby let alone one where there is so much more at play than skills like yugioh.
Trash talk from strangers is like playing against an anime villain, only there's no world-ending stakes on the line or anything - at least with your mates, you can have good fun about it and if it's getting a little too personal you can resolve things without causing a scene, but a stranger just makes it so that you'd never want to play against them again.
I came into Yugioh from the Smash community, and a decades old adage in their competitive scene is "No Johns", which means no excuses.
Regardless of some of the more fundamental problems with this game (namely the slanted advantage of going first and the cards that can make that stupidly oppressive like IP Masquerena, floodgates or what have you), its my belief that you should still try to approach each game as a learning opportunity. Its a children's card game, just try to have fun.
One of the "Rules of Kaijudo" from the Duel Masters TCG was "I have no enemies, my opponent is my teacher" - it's a great way to promote the idea that you will always have something new to learn for your next game.
That being said we don’t have a banlist in Smash Ultimate, otherwise Steve and Sonic might get hit.
Sportsmanship and respect to ones fellow humans shows maturity and intelligence. I was pretty let down watching the last rounds of the 3v3, so much hubris over a card game. Thanks for making this vid, Paul. Maybe someone will learn a thing or two about whats really important when we duel.
Agreed!
what do you expect from people that dont shower
@@cibinomin6540so greasy that this burn set them on fire. lol
I really don't like when my opponent talks about random shit while we're playing. My peanut brain has a hard enough time figuring out what I'm going to do next and sometimes that distraction is enough to make me misplay or forget the game-winning play I had in mind. Other than that I don't really care what my opponent does. If they pop off after they win or act cocky while we play that's fine with me. Makes it all the better when you get them the next time, to me that's the fun of competition.
I feel that 💯
Laughed at the 🥜🧠 can relate
i love to chitchat since i can multi task, though if someone ask me to stay silent i'll
And I think it would be great if we can make this a community where we can say "Hey, I would love to chat about this after the duel, but during the duel I would appreciate if I could focus on the game" and all parties would be understanding of this. I hope for this anyway
I didnt go to many tournaments, just a couple drafts, but the moment I became disinterested in the whole thing was in a match where my opponent won pretty fast (about 5 minutes), the next game I was winning then I noticed he started talking about random subjects and playing slower, I didnt follow through his topics as I just wanted to play, by the time I won, the time was up (second duel took 30 minutes or more) then due to tournaments rules I was out and he went to next round, I wasnt angry at that moment but later that day I realized what he did and I felt awful, the moment my opponent felt like he could lose he started being scummy, we never got to the third game in the match, so disappointing I never returned to any similar events
Looking back, one of the main reasons I quit competitive play was because of a LOT of negative experiences with players' behaviors. One of the worst was actually a game I won 2-0. Dude was using Gladiator Beasts and I was running a rogue deck that mostly bounced cards and deflcted attacks. I thwarted almost all of his moves, but he would not quit with the smart comments from me making a brief flub with my Duel calculator ("this is why I write things down!") to whining because I kept bouncing things ("this is why I prefer Magic the Gathering"). That might have been the only time I ever got worked up during a game I was WINNING.
Since then, I've always made sure to clearly declare every move I make, give my opponent a chance to respond to any moves I make, and refrain from being chatty unless it's someone I am friends with, in which case we get kind of goofy while we play. On another positive note, I can safely say I did not have a single negative experience playing any of my rounds at the last-ever regional I attended back in the final days of Master Rule 2 (April 2014). Every player was very respectful and sportsman like.
It's never my opponents fault i lost. it's mine. Afterwards, i go home, look through my cards, and work out what tweaks i can make to avoid losing the same way again.
Response: I use baronne to negate your sportsmanship
Oh yeah, Baronne into my old school deck every day. That's just pure disrespect. I surrender instantaneously.
I think my worst experience is pretty easy. There was some guy I played against at locals once who was...unpleasant to go against, in pretty much every way. He had a NSFW mat and field center that made me uncomfortable, but I didn't say anything since I didn't want to start our match off with tension. Even if I give the benefit of the doubt that he just didn't quite know how his cards worked and wasn't intentionally trying to cheat, there were definitely times where it was clear he was trying to twist things in his favor as much as possible. One example is that I activated an effect that sent his traptrix sera to the gy, he responded with a trap, and then on resolution argued that sera could trigger (from the gy) because a trap was activated while she was on the field. He kept arguing it and I eventually just let him do it since I was in a winning position anyway. He didn't outright yell or anything but was acting visibly annoyed when he did lose, too.
That's definitely an outlier case though. Most of the people I play against are fun and cause no problems. The people at my locals mostly fall into 2-3 friend groups so games are often full of banter. People smack talk and what not, but I don't see anybody getting genuinely upset over losing or gloating to anybody other than friends who are in on it. Whether people like it or not, yugioh is inherently a social game, you directly interact with another person in a 1-on-1 scenario and have to clearly communicate information to each other in order to progress and maintain the game state. There is nothing you can do to bypass or ignore that, short of having a simulator like master duel that handles all the inputs and rulings for you. Whenever you play in paper, you necessarily have to be able to functionally cooperate with your opponent, or else you won't have a game
I think the Evenly Matched bluff question depends on how aggressively you try to talk your opponent into firing I:P. If you just ask to go to Battle Phase, without explicitly stating you have an intention to use Evenly Matched, then it's your opponent making a read on your play. You haven't misrepresented the gamestate, you've made a legal move, in an attempt to bait out your opponent's interaction. If, however, you make a show of how good your topdeck was, then proceed to Battle smugly, for example, then that might be misconstruing the gamestate. Bluffs are allowed. You can set Normal Spells to look like trap cards! Your opponent could justifiably assume those face-downs do something! Same goes for tactical usage of phase changes, imo.
Not gunna lie if a lose in masterduel I’ll instantly cuss out my opponent (who can’t hear it) and their deck. To me it’s a stress reliever. But in person duels I don’t think I’ve ever disrespected anyone after a duel. Maybe a little less excited or happy about dueling because obviously you want to win. But I focus more on my play and my deck flaws when it comes to in person duel vs masterduel when I complain and just want to full power speedroid
Yeah you're not doing any harm by letting off steam w cussing @ a simulator, it's how you act in settings where you see the other player that matters. So many other people don't understand that balance
The I:P Masquerena thing of going to battle to bait it, I feel is still a viable strategy. It may seem scummy, but it's legal to do, so why not go for all options? The thing about holding to think when nothing can be activated, however, I feel is not legal and is very much scummy. It's making that turn's player take longer than it needs to. The counting specials for Nibiru is different. I don't think it's a bad thing to count it, especially if you have it in the deck. Also, it makes the turn player be reminded of what could stop/halt their plays and wonder if they should do 5 or more summons. Yet it ultimately it doesn't halt the turn completely. They can still make whatever plays they want.
Baiting and bluffing are genuine tactics for play since you never know what your opponent is going to drop on you, but intentionally slow playing or stalling is absolutely scummy behaviour, especially if you're going to win via time-out - it's not illegal, but it's definitely the kind of thing someone who's a poor sport would do.
If you're going to wombo-combo and bring out more than five monsters in one turn, you can't exactly be mad when a Nibiru nukes your field since that's exactly what it's meant for, it all really comes down to predicting whether your opponent has it in their hand or not and taking that gamble.
You have the legal right to enter battle phase. As long as you aren't baiting your opponent it's not illegal.
This is one of the big reasons I like masterduel more as a way to play Yu-Gi-Oh. Because the game had a lot of rule ambiguity, so having it done for you clears a lot of the confusion :V
I felt the same way when playing the yugioh 5D's DS games back in the day.
Agree, can't cheat in master duel
I have 2 stories that came to my mind. 1, at a regionals I was playing against a guy, whenever he would cut my deck he would shuffle it, but he would look down and look at my cards while he was shuffling. I asked him to stop, and he just said "Oh yeah, sorry my bad." And kept doing it. I called a judge over, but the judge knew him personally, so he pretty much just told him to knock it off. I just quit and told another judge but nothing ever came of it.
2, at another regionals, my opponent was way nicer, he won game 1, so we were on game 2, and suddenly I had to pee really bad. I asked him "Hey, I'll just sign the sheet and but can you watch my stuff while I go to the bathroom?" And he was totally ok with it. Absolute bro.
I can relate to the high tension in the YGO sphere. At my locals it seemed like there was maybe one or two people who really wanted to play there for fun and then all the other people were there for full competitive YGO. And while there is nothing wrong with it as it was certainly a competitive scene I was going to on a short weekly basis, the stress was definitely palpable. Maybe when the Snakes-Eyes stuff is over I'll finally come back to locals but for the time being I am not holding my breath to return.
For me I like to joke around a bit and have fun but I also read the room. Sometimes I see my opponent wants to be more serious I respect it and I go along with it but I have had opponents that joke around with me and it is a good time. Win or lose the goal is to have fun even in a competitive setting and usually majority of the time I have had great experiences with my opponents at events and locals.
Worst thing on MD is for me :
• People surrendering when they're about to lose to a an old school super respectful (not stall, not anti-meta, not floodgate, not exodia) deck.
Whether I'm playing casual or competitive, the only time I get upset is if I get locked out of playing. Like, what was even the point, then?
Yeah that's my problem, I like casual decks but the only locals near me is very competitive so if I go there it just feels bad cause I don't really get to play the game. That said the players are nice, but I'm not on their level and don't really want to be.
@millermcd Honestly, same here. I've been to maybe 2 locals, but both times I went, while the people there were fine, I just got stomped. It's turned me off from playing competitive.
I get that. I love in Kansas City, and no gaming community has any chill. Yugioh locals are all tier 1 or 0 decks. No room to take a rogue strategy and even win a single round.
Even the smash community here is cut throat. It can still be fun, but it can be hard to enjoy the games when 99% of the people that show up are going as hard as they can at all times.
Well, I'm not a judge. But I think this baiting (implying one has an Evenly by going stright into battle phase) should be totally fine, since you are simply taking a gamble here. There is the possibility that the opponent doesn't use their quick-effects, so you can not stay in main phase one. That means you have simiply forced yourself to skip your own battle phase and thus have to do your main combo in main phase two.
Also, about Nibiru, I remember, once I told someone that I have heard that you are not allowed to say "If you summon one more time, I will Nibiru you." However you are technically allowed to say "Wait, summon number what was it? Oh, it was just summon number four yet. OK."
It's more the fact that Yu-Gi-Oh should be a card game that involves strategy, not psychological warfare and mind gaming. Legal or not putting an idea in someone's head to affect their gameplay doesn't sit right with me
@@ShadowFlame74 I mean, psychological warfare and mind games are part of strategy? Like baiting out interruptions from your opponent by making think they're disrupting something important before pivoting into a totally different line for example. I'm not saying like counting out loud while you don't have Nibiru in hand, but the game has had those kind of meta games ever since its inception. Same as any other competitive card/board game
@@ShadowFlame74 With that logic, hand traps and traps shouldn't exist in the game.
I get what you're saying, but the entire point of quick play, traps, and hand traps are that your opponent doesn't know what you have. Don't play a card game if you don't like bluffing.
Suggesting that it's not okay to set a spell to make your opponent think you have a trap when you don't has been part of the game since day one.
If you have a problem with these kind of things, then card games aren't for you.
Ive been collecting yugioh for about 2 years now and I’ve finally just started attending locals.
I’m so ecstatic that I’m just playing with other people who share my hobby, I don’t care if I win or lose.
I definitely don’t take the game too seriously and can’t imagine ever getting upset over losing, there’s so many variables that can result in a win or loss that ultimately come down to luck.
But I also mirror the the energy of the person I’m playing against, if they’re also very chill and not taking it too seriously then I’ll act myself but if they’re very serious, I’ll tone it down.
Well said! The card shop where I played official YuGiOh tournaments had really respectful players. I learned the way to good sportsmanship from the calm and energetic ambiance (for lack of a better word). This was the first time I played against human players irl as an adult. The good sportsmanship drove me to wanting to participate more, where I may have been turned away if I saw bad sportsmanship
When I played standard format I loved rocking Dinomorphia, the cards are awesome looking and I'm a huge fan of dinosaurs. The floodgates weren't my favorite part of the deck but I did like how the deck functioned overall. However I hated the round time issue that happened almost every single round. People would see that there wasn't much time in the round in game 3, play more slowly than normal, and I'd lose since I'm always at a low LP total with the deck. Honestly kind of turned me away from playing in general, I could never outright call someone out for playing slow.
0:10 😂😂 I see what you did there “no particular reason” and “god damn” 😂😂
Yugioh should be a fun game but a lot of people who play it don't view it as fun, but rather a chore. It also seems to attract a strangely toxic crowd, (see the recent YCS).
what happened at the latest ycs?
@@starjadiancloneinvestigato1772there were a few voiceless voice players who cheated by picking up the opponents card, then putting it in a different monster zone (they run a card where columns are very relivent)
@amesarecool9280one even went directly into anima after "reading" and placing the opponents card into the column above where anima is going to be, funny stuff
THIS! My worst experiance that made me go strictly digital with MD.
I went to Locals with Dark Magician main gimmick being Dm The Dragon Knight + Eternal's Souls effect and when he read both cards called me a few slurs and threw my deck.
I have never felt so embarrassed in my life in a place i considered safe. And it killed lgs's for me as that guy just let loose with various things that make my skin crawl.
Its a game not a fight to the death, no one makes 500K+ for winning a LGS tourney.
Some duelists just dont need to be in these events if they cant be a manchild about a deck they dont like. And then proceed to throw another players deck is just grounds for banning.
Anyways enough of my rambling great vid, and I wish everyone good luck on their duels! Game On!!
What annoys me, as a new player that's unfamiliar with all the cards, is when my opponent doesn't announce what their card is doing while they're doing combos. Like how am I supposed to learn as a player?
I don't know if this counts as bad sportsmanship but right when I got back into yugioh I had a red-eyes deck going up against a sky striker player. I'd never seen a link monster until now and I had no idea the game speed had advanced so much.
Once his turn started, he was on full auto pilot mode, speeding through every card without saying more than 1 or 2 words, and every time I would ask what the card did, he would sigh loudly and get aggravated as he explained each card effect.
One of the worst things I ever had I sat down and my opponent first thing he said is don't touch my stuff really mean
The player takes 5 minutes to do one thing but gets mad at you when you take 3 seconds to do one thing
And when you catch someone shooting in a spaz out
Quitting cuz you didn't get your best hand
The guy talks about everything but the game they are actually playing
Part of this comes back to the age old problem of card games and tabletop games being a common pursuit for people with poor social skills. Especially as these things became more mainstream, some of the typical behaviours of these communities became less acceptable as more "regular" people joined the hobby.
It's not everyone and it doesn't excuse bad behaviour, but it is part of the puzzle, I think.
Then there are the people for whom winning the game against them is poor sportsmanship.
People are very invested in the game and their decks. Especially for a big event, they may have spent a lot of time, money and effort putting together their decks and getting there.
Then you have the audacity to beat them. How dare you!
To be honest, moderation is key. I'd consider myself pretty nerdy and into some niche hobbies, but I also work a job and exercise, talk to family, etc.
I feel like when it comes to humans, its always an extreme. This is a generalization but for example: Either people can be super extroverted and do things like play sports or go out to bars and may be "well-adjusted", or they are super nerdy and would be considered "basement dwellers" who don't take showers and have horrible acne. Again, this is generalization but I suppose the stereotypes are there for a reason if people have encountered it enough.
We love to categorize and sort people/groups and I don't think this is something that will ever truly be resolved since its encoded into our being, but I think we can definitely bridge the gap a bit. If only it was as easy as "have fun, learn what you can and take care of yourself, regardless of what your lot in life is" but it never is that easy.
@KryselITG Stereotypes do exist for a reason, but most people are not the extremes. Most people do have a good balance.
And I have known good-looking, sporty people who are also extremely nerdy and... people on the other extreme, who have no nerdy interests whatsoever.
My point was that in the past these hobbies have appealed to all sorts of people, but were often, and to an extent remain, something of a refuge for those who, for a myriad of reasons, find themselves to be social outcasts. Such people often have poor social skills that may be misinterpreted as poor manners or sportsmanship by the wider community, even if no ill-will was intended (for most people. Anyone can be a jerk.)
@fersW I just blame the esports mentality in general. This game doesn't even have cash prices, there's no reason to get this salty when you're only bleeding money to compete in this game. Like, this isn't League of Legends, chill.
@four-en-tee People were rude and salty at Yugioh before the internet was widespread and mainstream, nevermind e-sports.
The fact that a lot of autistic people (dont mean that as an insult just genuinely referring to the illness) are also attracted to TCG's and they are all in a room together doesn't help either.
What we've got here is the ol' Sportsmanship vs Gamesmanship argument, your attitude and behaviour towards playing a game and what you feel is most important:
Sportsmanship is the old adage of "It's not solely about winning, it's about having a good time and playing our best," the attitude of fair play and respect towards your opponents while giving it your all, and ending your games with a handshake and a compliment.
Gamesmanship is the mindset of "Winning is all that matters," doing whatever it takes to get that W, including bending the rules and abusing loopholes without explicitly cheating, or just generally being a bad sport like making excuses about how things ended up or talking smack about your opponent's deck or play style and be the most likely to flip the table after a particularly bad match.
Basically it's the difference between the person who always says "GG" after a game, and the one who says "GG EZ" when they win and cusses everyone else out when they lose.
You can't really be too mad if someone is playing the game the way the cards let them like floodgates or unbreakable boards, but it's very understandable to be upset when that person is purposely slow playing when they know they can win on time-outs or they're trying to mess with your flow by distracting you while you're trying to concentrate on your combos, and especially when they pull petty nonsense like loudly complaining about bad hands or insisting "You can't use different sleeves for your Main and Extra Decks!" even though Konami ruled you absolutely can (only the Side Deck needs to be sleeved the same as the Main Deck.)
Of course everyone wants to win, there's always winners and losers in any game, but people will be more eager to play with you again if you treat them how you'd want to be treated rather than only caring about the W and making their play experience simply unbearable in order to get there.
One of my worst memories of bad sportsmanship is where I'm not sure which one of us actually had it and who was to blame, me or my opponent. It was my friend and only duelling partner at the time and I continiously developed my deck recipe until it was kind of unbalanced and we played a lot of duells over the weeks and months of which he lost more than he won. With him occasionally winning by destroying a boss monster of mine with "Ring of Destruction". A card I gave to him to use, it had the original text before the changes and one day when the situation came up for him to use it as the errata says, I mentioned "oh btw, I randomly saw that the card text had been updated and nerfed a while ago. you actually cant do that, but go for it now. Im just saying for the future."
He was kind of tense to begin with and reacted very irritated, saying with lots of salt "I dont care what the new text says, Im using it as it is stated right here. this is bs" ...we continued arguing because I was annoyed by his stubborness and thought this kind of attitude was a very bad fundament for playing this game together. he was probably annoyed with me because he felt I tried to have a high win ratio by taking away another win condition, one of the few he had left against my deck.
We played less Yugioh after that. so what do you think?
imo he should have just accepted the offical ruling and try to improve his deck with better cards like I did and get over it.
I’ve also experienced this in Pokémon and Digimon, but when my opponents gives an almost snappy “ok” or “yup” to my plays just comes off so rude and aggressive.
It sort of depends on whether they've just been following your plays and are agreeing to you continuing since they can't/don't want to interrupt yet, or if they're just hurrying you through your turn so they can get to theirs - nobody likes being made to feel like they're being rushed, especially when they're trying to plan out certain plays.
If you feel it's getting bad, you shouldn't be afraid to say "I don't mean to be rude, but you were getting a bit snappy about my plays and I didn't like it," in case they didn't mean to be and they apologise for it - "It's not what you say, it's how you say it," and all that.
One of the reasons I originally quit the game was when one of my opponents looked at me in my face and aggressively told me that I was poor.
I am not going to locals or anything, but I do feel like me proclaiming I have a bad hand is something I need to stop doing. It's not just a potential fake out, but it comes off as a bad sport
Buddy an I where at a shop when the local folks were coming in. The one guy we talked to had a visual negative reaction when we said, "for the most part we play causal so we dont feel the need for ash blossom"
Which is true, my friends an i don't need ash blossom. We arent running 1000 dollar decks. We each have several play sets of ash so we can, but to us, its fun to see what the deck avross the table can do.
We are going to duel at the locals night next Tuesday hopefully and i plan on taking my exosisters who is my "competitive" strong deck
Misleading your opponent is never cheating or bad sportsmanship. A main rule in competition/war is never trust your opponent. It's your fault if you fall for your opp's bluff.
110% I agree.
Unfortunately, it is in the rules.
You're right and wrong at the same time, you're allowed to say whatever you want, but I am free to ask a judge if you keep counting my summons out loud, he will tell you to shut up during my turn if it's not for clarification, you don't need to talk over my plays to count my cards and the angleshooting isn't the point in that case
your comment on 'people having more respect and have more pressure to be *good*' really reminded me of the Analysis that Folding Ideas did called "Why It's Rude to Suck at Warcraft".
I'll try and summarise the best I can. There is a tension between Instrumental play (becoming 'good' or preforming 'well') and free play (mostly everything else like casual collection, liking the art and other media etc), where instrumental play becomes the implied value of the game (aka YGO is FOR getting good at it, instead of it as a whole entire game worth of play)
People, especially gamers, have a tendency to optimise the fun out of games as well which then leads to more implied value on being 'good at the game', and more negative reaction towards perceived 'bad play' or play the game in not a strict competitive and optimised 'correct way'.
Although there IS fun and fulfillment in getting better at a skill, and that is a good reason to enjoy a game, it isn't the ONLY way to enjoy YGO, even if it is the only way some enjoy it.
I personally have a more casual enjoyment of YGO, pulling cards and browsing and learning different cards, but I can still appreciate and have fun with the more competitive side of it. I don't think my enjoyment has inherently more or less value or correctness than someone that is fully invested in competitive or just likes the show, because we all are enjoying the same thing at the end of the day.
TLDR: Enjoy games how you like to enjoy them, let people enjoy the game as they like to enjoy them, and try not belittle people for being too 'casual' or 'sweaty', but do call out people being rude and belittling people
I go to play for fun and joke around with my opponent if I can, especially if its someone I've played against often which extends to my personal gripe.
My locals tends to do random pulls and the last 5 times I went I always got the same opponents or a free win because someone left early. It got to the point I joked with the judge/shop owner that I didn't want the free win I wanted to lose like a man and he told me back in a silly way "No, you'll take the W and like it."
My only pet peeve is trying to do extra summons and combos when I’m clearly conceding, like bruh I’m not about to watch you do a 5 minute turn, I got 300lp 😂
Yeah, it's like, you already have game, just attack, why you flexing?
It’s so infuriating! They’ll have enough damage on board for game, you’ll see your hand is practically dead so you pass turn, and then they enter Main Phase 1… and just start going ham! Into a long ass combo that is already excessive for the 1 hand/trap you might have?? Just fucking kill me, my board is empty, why are you keeping me hostage?! And in Master Duel, I have to either let them keep me there for another 2 minutes or I surrender because it’s pointless and receive absolutely NOTHING for that entire duel. Absolute rubbish.
Just scoop earlier then, you're the one wasting time
@@KFC-Warriorso ure one of those people i see
When you're "clearly gonna concede" because you know you've lost, why don't you just get on with it then@@ghosty9966
Paul is the sasuke of the yugioh universe. He's emotionally invested but doesn't show it in his expressions 😂
Magic the Gathering player here. Just figured I'd share my fun sportsmanship story. Was playing commander online with random people. Had my dragon deck. One of the opponents was running a hydra deck. They managed to pull off a Villainous Wealth for 18. Managed to get an Utvara Hellkite, The dragon that makes copies of dragons when they ETB, Scourge of the Throne and a few others. I just laughed and the table had fun with it
Coming from competitive mtg to yugioh the reactions to bluffing are, to my mind, insane. Your point about the I:p is a fantastic example of a great bluff, they either call it and you skip your battle phase that turn or they play into the bluff and get played. Its just another skill that players should have in their repertoire. In mtg one of our all time best players used his on field resources to represent making a token to block but actually had a boardwipe he could activate with those same resources in his hand. He pulled the token from his deck box and messed with it, signaling an intention to make it to block, the opponent played into that signal and got punished. It was at the time widely considered to be a brilliant play. The consepts of sportsmenship in mtg vs yugioh is so wildly different, like in mtg it mostly boils down to "Don't get salty and accept defeat with grace and dont rub victory into an opponents face" so yugiohs version is just such a wildly foreign concept to me.
There's already vids out there talking about how YGO would see that exact form of bluff as bad sportsmanlike conduct and punish you for it. Whilst mind-games and tricking opponents into making bad moves is a great skill to have in games or...life in general...when they essentially threaten you with a game/match loss/booting for doing it, that's kinda shitty...and Yugioh is no stranger to making rules that are shitty for their players. lol, I mean...they even did mind-games like that in the anime, but ya know, "The anime isn't a good representation of the TCG/OCG official card game".
@@SageTigerStar learned bluffing was illegal when in one of my first big tournaments I started off handedly to the side started tracking summons on a d6. Got dq'ed. I was more flabbergasted then angry because the idea of a card game that exists without bluffing was so foreign to me.
So far I've never had a bad experience
But the best experience was when me and 2 other guys were teaching a kid to play at a shop.
We originally went for a tournament but were abit late. We ended up hanging out during the tournament and i gave abunch of my unused cards to the kid.
Dude has potential too
Oh I like that avenge me remark. It basically acknowledges the person's victory while getting them on your side.
I'm a super talkative person in my matches, even at larger events or in top tables, I'm just an outgoing person and that's just how I am. And even though I'm there to compete and do well the reason I go to the tournament if to have fun at the end of the day. I try to keep most my talk about things outside of the actual context of the match, maybe their sleeves or mat or the rarity of a card. A lot of people are happy to talk about this stuff that they probably put time into deciding on. Or ill mention if they use a cool tech I haven't seen much, if they have a nuts opening Ill make a comment on it, or if they have a really bad one ill give my condolences. And ill do the same for my own plays sometimes, but generally try to keep it until after I have made my plays. For one I don't wanna lie to my opponents and cause issues, but also I don't want them to know I have a good or bad hand or that I messed up a play or got a good read until after so that they might not be able to just be handed the right way to play against it by my words.
But I also recognize that a lot of players are not as social and the fact that I don't look like your average YuGiOh! player and I know that I often can come off as intimidating, so I try to get a read on the opponent early and see how much interacting I should be doing with them. Same goes for in game stuff like if they communicate every single phase change even when it's not relevant then I will too, if they always do an intricate cut then I will too, if they ask for a response to every effect even when not necessary then I will too, if they do multiple searches before shuffling or shuffle after each one then I will too. Its about making them feel comfortable so that they will be less combative and generally give you less issues. I've made a few friends at different YCS's and regionals and also played with people I hope I never see again, its just how the game is, but I very often have a good experience in my matches even when I lose and regularly get complements from people I beat saying they still had fun or that they'd like to play with me more.
I'll also add that the entering battle phase to maybe force an IP is a super legit play and in my opinion, sportsman like. They can react if they want or not if they don't. If they don't and you enter battle and immediately enter MP2 you're not at a disadvantage on the turn and the other way around they are at the disadvantage but also generally less so than you would be if they called it right, its not really any different then playing in a reckless/suboptimal way on purpose to bate interaction or have them hold it off by feigning that you do or do not have certain cards in hand. This comes down to meta and gameplay knowledge on both sides and if your opponent reads through you or sometimes even just don't notice what you're trying to do then you'll be even worse off because of it. Completely different than the Nib counting summons thing where you're doing this via a non gameplay action and are at no disadvantage if they do call your bluff/not notice it
Won't lie I've come a long way since Mendenhall, had my share of duels, filled with salt and all. I used to get decently tilted when I'd get completely sacked, but over time even I learned sometimes it's just the state of the game. You're right, 100%, no point in getting tilted when a certain deck comes up or just a board of negates, sometimes you can even play past it and even surprise yourself with how far you come in that duel, even when losing. I actually recently got a couple of people in the game recently, and as much as I fear Unchained, one of them started with it and I gave them every possible insight to the decks capabilities, even if It meant my favorite, Blackwings, could get outted massively by them. It helped me learn what plays I have to do to get around it, rather than sit there tense and worried over the opponent's deck. I think the biggest thing is, realising that we aren't the best player, have much to learn even as veterans of the game, supporting one anothers climb to the top, even when we are another rung of the ladder sometimes for each other~
The IP example is valid and i just remember in master duel when it asks you: "continue main phase?"
The “evenly matched” bluff has happened to me
I had Empen and trap to normal summon set and harpie trap set 3 cards total
Opponent attempt to enter battle phase
I freak out of evenly flip trap to normal summon and end on avian and Empen with harpie trap set
Got super poly and left with trap unable to activate
Got otk
Never failing for it again 😅
• People with meta decks, who surrender after losing a coin flip to sasuke ninja on turn 2
As someone who grew up playing sports and just got into TCGs i treat it the same way. Wish your opponent good luck and after whoever wins shake hands and go on about your business. Of course they will be times were you think you’ve been cheated or wrong but al you can do is control what you can.
I went to my first ever tournament a couple weeks ago and the I got the genuine pleasure of my first ever tournament duel was against a judge who actually worked for the same company as me so we ended up bonding over that before our round. When we dueled he chatted with me and he had seen my deck prior and said that he was familiar with my cards even before seeing my deck so he said I didn't have to explain my effects, which put less pressure on me as a new tourney duelist. He did end up beating me in our first duel but I did actually manage to hit him for around 6K damage before he beat me, and he was very kind and supportive and told me that a few of my plays did actually catch him off guard to where he had no counter. Second round was a complete wipe on my end and it wasn't remotely close, I believe I was OTK'd. But he told me that unfortunately that is a bit common now in the game and how the game isn't the same as it was when I was very into it (I told him before I was very involved during the GX era). But overall it was a nice experience.
I personally enjoy the game whether I win or lose. I like the topic you bring up from bluffs on Main Phase effects like “I:P” against “Evenly Matched”.
I left yugioh during Pepe tier 0 almost a decade back. Just recently went to a local for the first time since and I played this Ice Jade player in R3 that had such a bad attitude the entire match that I was like, I can't do this anymore. I since then have switched to pokemon tcg because at least I don't have to actively communicate with someone that is an asshole just to make it through my turn in the PTCG
Good sports are always great to see online. My favorite game of Magic Arena ended with an opponent who, rather than just concede, targeted himself with a burn spell to end the game. They probably had more fun losing that game than most people do winning.
Bluffing seems standard in any card game though. The whole point of having a hand of cards is that you know what you're holding and your opponent doesn't, and you can insinuate whatever you want about it. Anything that depends on the contents of the other player's hand should come with a reveal though, because you shouldn't need a third party to settle those things.
Mad respect for Pak in the last round Team YCS finals.
I guess my question is why is bluffing, intimidating, or distracting your opponent bad? As long as you aren't being openly rude or abusive or breaking any kind of rule, psychological tactics are part of any game or battle. I have recently started playing games with others (especially strangers/randoms) less in general because some people are just that toxic, annoying, and arrogant. I understand why people's demeanor can ruin things for someone, but I don't think trying to make your opponent think your hand is bad, or asking them "are you sure you want to do that?" Or stupid things like that are all that dangerous. It's about the same as putting a useless spell face down so the opponent thinks you might at least have something to surprise them with. These mind games have crafted some player's entire strategies around just going for a play anyway even if it's possible their opponent has disruptions or traps.
I've only ever been upset about a time loss with full combo in hand
I like to open a pack or 2 with my opponents after decisive wins it helps lighten the mood
Whether I'm playing Yugioh or Magic or whatever, I'm going out to play for the interaction. It's a social thing, it's just an excuse to get out of the house. Having competitive matches and potentially winning is cool. But really, as long as I have chatting, shooting the shit, making jokes, and just keeping the mood up, that's all I care about. To that end, the most fun-ruining thing you can do sitting across from me is just go into full try-hard, ultra-serious mode. No social interaction, no commentary, no feedback, just playing through the mechanics of the game to get to end. Bonus points if you're only your phone or talking to someone not playing the game while its my turn.
teamsam was just exercising his freedom of speech
I would say a lot of the sportsmanship stuff is context dependent and is really about being a respectful communicator. like the nerves & atmosphere will be different at locals vs big tournaments, and how 2 people interact will be different depending on what they're comfortable with. Like I can imagine people who regularly have 'shoot the shit' games will just default to that playing at other places, and it's more about acknowledging whether your opponent is comfortable with that or not, and if they aren't then respecting their choice to not engage that way. Also dealing with losses can suck depending on how it goes down, especially depending on how your day has gone so far. like I could imagine people being hella frustrated if they lose their 5th match that day to some floodgate stun deck.
Duels can leave me feel like I can't breathe sometimes, so I love it when my opponents are more talkative. It removes the tension for me and reminds me that it's just a game.
I agree with your views on sportsmanship, but some plays feel outright dirty or malicious. I had someone make a full board of negates with Darkworld and that was fine, but then they went and handlooped me because they could. I needed a minute to compose myself after that, and just need to distance my feelings with the game overall.
I would say in the case of Evenly, you aren't misrepresenting the game state. Yes the idea is you wouldn't normally enter the battle phase without a reason, but you can freely move to the next phase as you choose. It's almost like baiting out interaction. I think where it crosses the line is when you start threatening illegal plays. I'd say you've crossed the line if you say, "I want to go to the battle phase." then start grabbing at a card in hand that can't be activate during the battle phase. Most forms of legal bluffing in Yugioh is boarderline BM, like asking if your opponent summoned five times without nib in hand, but as long as you don't misrepresent the game state it's techinically legal.
I like the "Avenge me" line, gonna use that at my digimon regionals when I go 0 - 8
I have to say that stuff like going into battlephase to fake an evenly or faking a nibiru is something that surprised me quite a lot going into yugioh by how badly it is seen.
I'm the type of person who see these type of stuff as just outplaying/bluffing and see it as totally fine but I know a lot of players absolutely hate it.
And even konami forbidding to fake stuff like "hey I have nibiru" or whatever is something I still find weird.
But ig yugioh is complex enough by itself to want to play mind games with ur opponent too 😅
I think the Evenly play is 100% fair play. I did it all the time vs Spright and Floo.
My experience with sportsmanship in YGO is best described with playing against Synchron at locals and getting burned when it was time on the round.
That was the last time I played irl.
I think if you approach duels as a Duel Quiz, then it softens the blow of losing. Its like a puzzle. And also, throwing out a “Dang, good game!” with a smile and going for a handshake is best practice for losing in my opinion
Regarding the rules about bluffing, and the spirit of the rule, the rule of thumb I'd give is that if your bluff is something that can be read from just the plays of the duel then it's legal. You can bluff via game mechanics, but not through what would be considered out-of-game actions. In the IP example, declaring that you're entering battle phase is using no out-of-game actions to imply that you have Evenly Matched and thus it is legal.
The token example is also one where if you are using tokens explicitly to try and mislead the opponent then it's illegal, but if you're just using a token it's fine. Because you can't prove intent in this situation, as long as you don't TELL someone you're using a token/sleeve/mat/whatever to try and mislead opponents it's fine.
It's kind of case by case as well. Suppose you are playing Edison format (and are using the current rules around bluffing) and you're running Lightsworn. You have engaged in multiple battles and not declared "damage step." If you do not have Honest but decide at one point to declare "damage step" to bait an action from your opponent, I think this would be considered an attempt to deliberately misrepresent the game state - because by NOT declaring damage step in your usual battles, the purpose of doing it here is only to imply you have a card you can activate at that point.
Basically if you're acting in good faith and making sure that you don't deliberately do something that might misrepresent the game state then you don't have to worry about it.
But the damage step always happens, so it's fine. It's like counting summons for nibiru which is also fair game
@eller The issue isn't declaring the steps of battle, it's the action of deliberately doing it when you previously weren't. Technically you're SUPPOSED to declare every part of damage calculation but many people don't simply because it's not relevant for most gameplay. To deliberately choose to declare "damage step" to try and trick the opponent into thinking you have Honest is the type of activity that the rules disallow. Even if you have been declaring phases the action could be to simply put emphasis on "damage step" that would still be illegal because you are DELIBERATELY trying to call attention to "this specific damage step is going to be different."
And counting summons is explicitly against the rules. "Duelists may not answer questions or offer information about Game State information that is considered Private Knowledge. Duelists may not make false statements about the game or gameplay, even about information that is considered Private Knowledge. Duelists may not perform actions that would intentionally mislead their opponent or a tournament official about the Game State.
"
On its face, counting summons in a very noticeable manner to imply you have Nibiru either is doing this (if you don't have it) or is breaking rules on private knowledge (if you do have it). Counting summons isn't illegal, but doing it in a way that you're signaling to the opponent "I'm counting summons" IS.
One example given: "Misrepresenting the Game State: A Duelist mentions they are running a certain card which is not currently considered to be Public Knowledge, with the intent to influence their opponent’s actions.
"
It doesn't have a Nibiru example in the rulebook just yet but Nibiru is the most blatant, most clear example of misrepresenting the game state because counting summons is only important for Nibiru - it's just flatly, unambiguously against this rule.
“Good luck in your next round, Avenge Me.” Might just be the coldest thing you can say after an L
I could see how having good "sportsmanship" in a game you can lose before you even play it would be difficult 🤷
yeah its hard to not be toxic if ur opponent does a ftk or some shit like that. 0 respect for that player like literally 0
Story time:
About 6 months ago I started playing yugioh at my local shop. And at the time the traptrix structure came out so I decided to bring it to play. It took a couple of times before I got my first win in a match. However it came at a cost. Keep in mind i am black and was def the only one amongst this group. Ik it sounds random but just stick with me here. My first ever win was against this guy who I rarely seen at the shop and he was playing pendulums. Everything was going good in the first match until I ended up resolving floodgate trap hole on his pendulum summon of 4 monsters. He wasn’t upset about it at first until I passed the turn back to him and he tried to flip the monsters face up on the start of his turn. For those who don’t know, you can’t change the positions of the monsters that were flipped with floodgate. But my opponent had a really hard time understanding that even after reading the card. It basically ended up with the guy getting so visibly and audibly frustrated, that EVERYONE stopped what they were doing to see the scene this guy was causing. So much so, that he ALMOST called me a slur in the middle of his rant. If the store owner hadn’t stepped in to calm him down I feared that he would’ve actually done it.
Long story short, I got yelled at for activating floodgate trap. Great sportsmanship 😭
Thanks for sharing! That's honestly one of the reasons why I've never had a desire to go to locals, even as a person who really enjoys playing Yugioh. Stuff like that would be my nightmare scenario, and the person sitting across from you at the table can completely change the tone of a given game that you're playing, for better and for worse
@@benjilenett2851 I agree it’s unfair and it’s always unpredictable going into any game but I honestly been enjoying TCG so much. I mean we’re kinda spoiled by master duel and other online simulators to where we don’t have genuine interactions with people when playing the game.
Yes the situation was a complete disaster but I look back on it as a good memory. Without that situation happening I wouldn’t have been as close to the other people at the shop as I am now. And I also wouldn’t have a reason to always have floodgate trap hole as my field center.
in regards to the IP, move to battle phase for evenly thing. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that at events, you both have to agree? normally if I was in main phase 1 and wanted to leave to battle, I say "attempt to move to battle phase" or "attempt to move to end phase" ect. If they say yes, that's it your green light to be in it, if they say "oh wait I have a response" then its too late as they verbally agreed to moving phases. I think that ties well into sportsmanship because some people at my locals don't go through the phases they just jump straight to battle or end after the draw phase which can be annoying.
Had to come back to this video…
Me when I win: whispers “Wow, I actually won?”
Me when I lose:”Well done, that was cool to see you do your thang!”
I enjoy watching opponents cook (unless I’ve seen the same combo for 3 hours straight lol)
I think the only time ive ever been unsportsmanlike to an opponent was when i was on Zombie World and they were on Floowandereeze. They proceeded to slow play me into oblivion and activated Advent in time and offered the handshake because he was ahead on life. I have never come so close to wanting to throttle someone in my life.
Just recently had a major discuss with a really good friend. I'm a more competitive player while he's not. He doesn't understand that drawing testhands will help him with playing and he refuses to do it. So he mainly practises on me and it take him sooo long to take actions. Even if I never played a deck after maybe 5 games I could play each of his decks. Not perfect but for sure much faster. So the last game we played I played Lab and he played performerpals. I made the basic Lab combo and passed. Played a total of 18 effects (most of them were chains) until we got into that discussion. The game was running for about 80minutes when I started to argue that he's playing way to slow. So basically I had about 7min playtime in a 80min game. Haven't played since that again though. I know it's harsh but we're playing since 2018 together and it's always been this way.
When someone sets up an unbreakable board on me and then Ash Blossoms my cards on top of that in Masterduel i'd be the most unsportsman like person ever if they heard me on the mic but if the game actually goes long like 10 turns and its nose to nose after the duel even if i lost i'd wanna shake the oppenent's hand for the great game. I get thats not the game anymore but i just wanna have a back and forth duel where im not dead on turn 1.
Some of my favourite duels on Master Duel are in Gold/Low Plat where everyone is just competent enough to play the game but also juuuust casual enough that you’ll find a variety of decks. I’ve been graced with games that last 10-20 turns and every moment is nail-biting just waiting to see who can draw into a combo or removal tool to shake up the game state. Even when I lose those I feel like I have to commend my opponent. Shame there’s no way to do so in game.
@neferacronia6798 seriously I hate ranking up cause everyone just uses the same two OP decks over and over again. Meanwhile I'm playing something like Gravekeepers for the fun of it just praying I can go first at least to have a chance
back in the day I used to play drytron and this one guy would pick up every. single. card. that I put on the field and read it. And the thing with drytron is theres a lot of moving parts coming on and off the field so whenever he stopped to read my cards I would have to stop and let him so I can move it in my next play. That's fine, slow player wants to know what my cards do whatever, the horrible part is him saying "you can keep going while I read" when I can't keep going while my moving parts aren't where they're meant to be, and he put the blame on me when we ran out of time despite the fact my combo lasts less than a minute if I'm not interrupted. Then he had the audacity to get pissy when I wanted to ask the judge a ruling question, even though I didn't stop the duel and just wanted to know something irrelevant.
Now on the flip side, some good sportsmanship: some decks I hate playing against like tearlament and runic, but when I'm going up against a funny fella I can crack jokes with and talk shit back and fourth with is so much fun that I don't mind when they play a deck that I don't like.
I think sportsmanship is extremely important in this game full of sack and rules and tense situations. I would much rather go against the most annoying deck in the game piloted by a comedian than go against a boring, easily beaten deck piloted by a brick wall
What attracts me to the content from APS so heavily are the classic Yu-Gi-Oh duels: Using structure decks from the 2010's, very little hand traps and playing a much slower paced game. The strategy lies in card management, as well as constantly maintaining a strong offence and defense, wheras what I observe from the current meta is that a great deck and game is determined by how effectively and often you can stop your opponent from making extended and interesting plays. Which in my experience, is stopping players from doing what makes the game fun.
I full agree with your statements on sportsmanship, people shouldn't imply they do or don't have certain cards, but I also wish those cards never existed so we would not have this problem. I know there are traditional formats but it would nice to see the largely dominated format encourage both players towering up to decked-out boards and big monsters rather than "if your opponent does anything: they can no longer do that thing"
I have been wanting to play at my locals for some time now, but have always been held back by the cost and sticking to this desire to avoid hand traps (this, limiting me to never being able to last more than one turn. This is my first time expressing my thoughts and hesitations.
Thank you team APS and Paul for creating an environment that sparks conversation and a community that aims to be understanding.
Idk I always have some kind of interaction during locals that leaves me feeling kind of iffy. The worst one in recent memory was a guy you got visibly upset at the fact I was playing labrynth and said „I feel like I’m getting angry“ and at first I thought he was joking. But then he just kept getting more rude and rude. During the last round he didnt pay attention to anything that I did and just talked to his friends while I was waiting to check if my activations were fine and if he had a response. After his evenly didnt win him the game he just got more upset and said that „the creator of the deck should get sent to a concentration camp“. He probably meant it as a joke and his friends laughed it off but I was left feeling incredibly uncomfortable. Absolute embarrassing behaviour
When I play with my friends, sometimes we just tell the other person some of the cards we have in hand and even what we intend to do with them. Helps us learn how to play around things and figure out if a tech choice works or not. I rather enjoy playing like this and it helps me when I make choices for cards in the deck building process. Not everyone's cup of tea, but its really fun when you and your friend are working on new decks, testing new play lines or trying new tech options.
thats fine when testing, but you really should be getting used to playing without that information (or even just learning how to route in such a way to avoid losing to those cards)
@@four-en-tee we're just fine when playing the game against non-friendgroup opponents, I was just sharing something that we do sometimes.
In my first tournament, I told one of the player that is was my first time and I'm not familiar with other decks so I need him to read his effects. He did tell me the effects for 2 turns but then stopped because it was making the game too slow for him. I think about my opponent too so I usually read my effects and he said once with an attitude, "I know what your card does so hurry up." I was shocked he said that to me. It was just rude. Other than that, I had fun and the other opponents were more pleasant and friendly than he was.