And having 3 copies of tons of cards but still making it a dedicated "Forced shuffle deck". Hehe funny how that would be initially overlooked as the Anime had the horribly obvious trait of having characters play with full 60 card decks yet SOMEHOW only draw the same 15 cards across an entire series over and over. And the rare times they did draw entirely new cards it's always implied they changed their deck anyway. With 60 cards, there's no way. Especially Zane somehow consistently pulling 2 or 3 copies of Cyber dragon and some fusion card (usaully Power bond). So naturally they seemed to assume deck size limits weren't a big deal evidently. It really makes a huge difference too. making it 20-30 cards in Duel Links seems to be just enough of a shift to make some archetypes a lot more powerful cause they're more consistent without needing searchers, compared to the TCG's 40-60 which requires searchers and lots of filler cards to account for the larger size.
One of my favorite examples of this was the “concept of a handshake” ruling. Basically people tried to make a combo to activate Yu-Jo friendship that forced the opponent to accept the handshake or lose and then made their hand disgusting so you didn’t want to shake it. This led to the amazing ruling that your opponent only needs to agree to “the concept of a handshake” not literally have to shake your hand
I was gonna mention this too. The specific combo is having the card unity in your hand. The effect of Yujo Friendship is the handshake is mandatory if you have it. Kinda sad how some degenerates ruined a pretty wholesome card.
In a post pandemic world this strategy would be even more effective. I believe they also made a rule that requires a certain level of hygiene from players, so if you show up to a tournament smelling like a dead cat, they can actually ban you for breaking an official rule lol
The first one lol "My deck has no pathetic cards!" "Your deck has over 2,000 cards and youre telling me you use all of them for your strategy? Yeah, right.."
@@nightmare3642 Now I'm imagining the judge just shouting "POLE POSITION!" on reflex to any question asked, even if it's something like "would you like ketchup on your burger"
When i saw this i thought they added a rule where you cant mind crush your opponents after you beat them in tournaments. Thank god thats still allowed, sending people to the hospital over a cards game is why i started playing this back in 2004
As a note, uncontrolled loops are perfectly allowed if they change the gamestate in a way that eventually leads either to the loop ending on its own or killing the opponent, such as the Beelze & Red Eyes Loop which burns the opponent until they have no lifepoints left due to the mandatory trigger effects of both monsters.
@@heheheiamasupahstarslam5397 it was not described as an infinite loop in the video or in my comment. It specifically referred to loops and made a distinction between uncontrolled and controlled loops. He stated that uncontrolled loops did not work in Yugioh and the offending card would be destroyed by game mechanics. But in the case of Red Eyes + Beelze, it is an uncontrolled loop that is unaffected by this rule and the reason for that is because the thing that determines if a loop is legal is not if it's controlled or uncontrolled, but if it is accompanied by a meaningful change in game state and if it can/will stop. The Six Samurai loop he mentioned is an example of a loop that can stop and the Beelze loop is an example of a loop that will stop. It's just a matter of when.
@@MorePower8679 I mean, it would be if Revival Jam actually worked that way. I don't like introducing anime effects to these discussions because the effects don't match to the game effects.
imagine how op the current time rules would be with no deck size limit and decks that take hours to shuffle, you just shuffle your deck once and activate sparks
Worth of mention is that Pole Position was such a problematic card that most games, including Master Duel do not have it featured because of the difficulties to program it properly, so it's often excluded. Such a legacy that common card left in the game.
@@baileydombroskie3046 Pole Position was, and still is a rulings nightmare. Back when Upper Deck ran the TCG, they had a list of rulings for Pole Position that was absurdly long. Pole position had so many instances of infinite loops that you had no control over.
I can already imagine the chaos that would erupt in MD if pole position was in the game there would probably be a deck dedicated to Pole position on the tier list rn that’s if it wasn’t one of the first cards that were to get banned like VFD and Halqi. goddamn 🤣
Another card that isn’t in most games is Spirit Elimination, though not because it was a rulings nightmare. It’s because it was really difficult to program, so much so that they couldn’t figure out how to do so at all. For those unaware, Spirit Elimination is a Normal Spell Card whose only effect is a lingering effect that lasts until the end of the turn. What it does is it allows you to substitute Monsters on your field for Monsters in your Graveyard whenever a card would banish them. So, if your opponent uses, say, Soul Release to banish one of your Monsters from your GY, you can instead choose a Monster on your side of the field. You could also Summon cards like Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning by banishing 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK Monster from your side of the field instead of your Graveyard. (And yes, the substitutes must fit the conditions for whatever was banishing them in the first place. Battle Tuned must banish a Tuner, Hundred Eyes Dragon must banish a Level 6 or lower DARK Effect Monster, Rainbow Dragon must banish "Crystal Beast" Monsters, Dark Necrofear must banish 3 Fiend-type Monsters, etc.) From what I understand, it doesn’t work for Monsters that trigger effects by banishing _themselves_ from the GY (like Blue-Eyes Abyss Dragon, which can banish itself from the GY to give a 1000-ATK boost to all your Level 8+ Dragon-type Monsters), but it _does_ apply to effects that are Chained to its activation (so if someone Chains Big Burn (which banishes all Monsters from both players’ GYs) to it or a later card in the same Chain, the player who activated Soul Elimination banishes all Monsters from their field instead of their GY (the other player banishes all Monsters from their GY as normal), which is _not_ what you’d expect from that interaction). You can also activate it even if Necrovalley (for any of its 8 errata or its original) is in effect as it 1) doesn’t banish cards from either player’s GY; 2) doesn’t move cards from either GY to either player’s field, deck, or Extra Deck; 3) it doesn’t target any cards in the GY (4th erratum only); 4) doesn’t affect any of the cards in the GY (2nd, 3rd, and 5th errata); 5) doesn’t technically involve the GY (original and 1st errata); and 6) doesn’t change the Types or Attributes in the GY (7th and 8th errata). (Technically, it allows you to bypass Necrovalley for cards that normally banish Monsters from your GY since Necrovalley only negates banishing effects that specifically banish cards from the GY, and Spirit Elimination makes it so that you instead banish from your _field,_ so unless it does something else to the GY that would be negated, the effect would still work, I think.) Now, there are some potential rulings nightmares in there, though since it was almost never played in official games, there aren’t many rulings on it. The problem is programming it. See, although nothing about the card’s text suggests that it’s optional, from what I can tell from the rulings on it, it _may_ usually be optional (I say “usually” because the ruling on Big Burn makes it sound like you _have_ to banish from your field instead, and “may” because the rulings are a bit ambiguous and have since been declared unofficial). You _cannot,_ however, mix and match between banishing Monsters from your field and your GY. More importantly, though, is the fact that conditions for banishing from your GY still apply (as mentioned previously with cards like Battle Tuned, Hundred Eyes Dragon, many "Chaos" or "- Envoy of the" Monsters, Dark Necrofear, or Rainbow Dragon), and there is a ruling in place that, for most cases, you cannot activate a card if there are insufficient “targets” for it to fully resolve (so you can’t activate Rainbow Dragon’s board-clearing effect if you have no "Crystal Beast" monsters in your GY (normally) or on your side of the field (with Spirit Elimination), nor can you activate Hundred Eyes Dragon’s effect if you have no Level-6-or-below DARK Monsters in your GY (normally) or on your field (with Spirit Elimination). That would mean that every card that banishes one or more monsters from the GY(s) (yours, your opponent’s, either, or both) must also check if either or both player’s have Spirit Elimination’s effect active (there are ways to activate a Normal Spell Card’s effect during your opponent’s turn) and, if so, check the field of that player to see if there are valid targets there. Oh, and since it’s a lingering effect that can trigger multiple times in a single Chain, it gets even more complicated. Not to mention other complications. In IRL play, most of these are pretty easy to work around. For a computer, though, it’s a lot messier. In fact, only one official game has had Spirit Elimination in it, and even then, it was on the Forbidden list of that game so that they didn’t have to actually program the darn thing properly.
Funfact about the box: my best friend had this for years in his home. Just because, we both know this two dudes who brought the deck to a tournament. Now it’s back at it’s owner.
I love how Konami went "alright yes we added a draw button, but to be clear we also added a double loss butt for when yall wanna mess around and find out"
Yugioh's one of those games where if you don't know anything about it or haven't played in years, it can seem like a lot is going on, but play Duel Links or watch the anime and you'll be right up to speed. It's surprisingly easy to pick up and learn again as most of the semantics are all spelled out in the cards so long as you literally do what the card says, you'll be fine. Only a few rules and mostly exceptions are in the rule book and there aren't that many that apply to most general games.
@@MarioMastar yeah as someone who fell out of it shortly after XYZ was added but got back into it via Master Duel (main reason of falling out was just not having local players), MD's tutorials were a great way to tell me how exactly Links work. Pendulums... yeah no I still don't get those but thankfully I can count the number of Pendulum users I've faced in MD on one hand.
18:20 how long before someone finds (if there isn't already a known instance) a deck that can create an uncontrolled infinite loop with an effect from the graveyard?
To avoid rulings nightmares the card is sent without activating any effect and most of the loop generators don't have effects in the Graveyard that generates a loop.Most,if someone finds something this will come up
Ultimate strategy: Create an uncontrolled loop that would force a judge to send a specific problem card to the graveyard as a way to send that card to the graveyard faster than you could otherwise
I'm pretty sure the judge would be looking at every card on the field before he sends the problem card to the graveyard. So if one of those cards in the loop had a graveyard effect, the judge wouldn't discard that one, just another card in the loop that wouldn't be a problem in the graveyard. And if you activate a trap card that continues the loop, the judge would discard that too.
@@stardust9470 It specifically said in the rules shown in the video, "Any effects that could activate as a result of the card going to the Graveyard can/will still activate accordingly." 🤨
Ever since I heard about it Mischen: Impossible (the 2222 card deck) has become my favorite piece of Yugioh trivia. ManyKudos made a video about Yugioh and had a segment about that deck and he found a comment from one of the guys saying that their intention wasn’t actually to get the rule changed but rather take advantage of the lack of deck size and just make people laugh. Idk how true it is so take that with a grain of salt Excellent video Coder. Narration is great and the editing is fantastic. I love video essay style videos so can’t wait to see more of these from you.
Given the effort taken to make sure a deck that size was legal and the fact it was only done that one time, it sounded like it had to be deliberate to make a point about the rule change. I could see it being a funny joke given the fedoras and how silly it looked, but they ultimately did resign after a single game when the point was made clear.
They didn't have to get the rules changed as the rules perfectly covered a case like theirs. They were awarded a Warning, a Game Loss, a Match Loss and a DQ due to not being able to randomize their deck in a timely manner.
@@soulwarrior Yes but that still wasted time for everyone involved and ultimately allowed for potentially entire tournaments to be ruined, when the fix is as simple as putting a maximum limit to deck size it's just the sensible thing to do to prevent these situations
"Dude, Trust Me" is soooooooooooooooooooooo dumb. Cheating has to be rampant, because a single hand rearrange after the next draw and "oops, drew the card you just named, lucky me". (oh, and reverse, when this actually happens, it going to look like cheating).
There aren't a lot of cards that cause verification in the first place. Most discard effects are non targeting. And most cards only effect known information. The only cards that would cause verification are terrible. And cards that reveal information written in to the text are balanced around that. The entirety of yugioh is balanced around hidden information The obvious indicator of this is the concept of trap cards and flip effects
That would make sense, but this is Yu-Gi-Oh. You can't even call over a judge. You just have to trust your opponent. (I think calling over a judge would be a good option; if that takes too long, hire more judges.)
wait what you cant call over a judge in yugioh? that sounds like a cheaters paradise or saying "yeah im sure thats how it works" to people that are not as rules inclined is a super big advantage @@alaeriia01
The most known consequences of "no verification" is Infernity players sneaking monsters in their backrow and conceding when said backrow would be destroyed.
With how knowledgeable you are about the rulings and the game, combined with the manner you explain them in this video, it becomes a really nice experience to just listen to the video. I also like how there is a plus to watching the video as cards and such are shown, but it is by no means necessary to do more than just listen to enjoy the video. Excellent work with this, I'll continue to look out for more of these videos as long as you make them!
I feel like having to keep calling a judge to your table every time someone played one of those cards would get annoying fast, especially when they need to solve actual ruling issues.
Or you know, add a "Opponent reveals their hand" clause to Mind Crush (and similar hand-search effects if any), and implement failure to find rules for deck searches. Works for MtG
@@notlark650 When someone is being dishonest about what cards they have in hand or deck is pretty easy to find out and there's barely any playable cards that interact that way, so on the fringe case you really wanna be certain about it you can just call a judge
2:46 I did something similar once as a kid. I realized there was no limit so I went to a tournament with a deck built to force discards. Knowing most people would only have around the 40 minimum I went with 120 (3x) cards and tried this. After sitting down and getting snide comments from players saying I used too many, I ended up doing ok. It wasn’t built to win, it was built to have fun with the rules and stand out.
That first story about the giga deck always makes me laugh. I wish there was a video of them just trying to shuffle the damn thing. I like watching Yu-gi-oh! vids like this, and I'd love to see more. No particular topics come to mind, but I figured you'd give us a nice and fun spin on things.
Why wouldn't the game have started with deck size limits? Did the other card games have an incident like that to make their deck size limits? Like the Pokémon TCG having exactly 60 cards. Has anyone tried to play Pokémon with over 2000 cards to make Nintendo give us a rule that our decks should be 60? No, I've got the Base Set and the rules were 60 cards back then too.
I remember reading the rule book for the first decks they released, and I could have sworn it said decks must be 40 to 60 cards. No idea how this got through the rules. @@SeanWheeler100
As a player of a fellow trading card game (Magic: the Gathering) it always fascinates me learning about the mechanics of other TCG games, and this video was very enlightening for that! Thanks! In MTG I know of one thing that would be considered an "Uncontrolled" loop involving a card called Polyraptor. Basically, any time Polyraptor is damaged it creates a copy of itself. The loop consists of having an effect that damages the Polyraptor that is triggered by a creature entering play. With one of these effects in play, it results in a never-ending loop of Polyraptors being generated as each one is damaged upon being played and thus triggering its duplication ability. I believe in official settings if there is no way to end the loop, the game is simply declared a draw. Honestly I think Yu-Gi-Oh's rules deal with it better in this regard, as Polyraptor could theoretically could be used to force draws.
I strongly disagree. The strength of MTG is that it can be played without any judge. They are there during tournaments only to enforce rules, not make calls that impact how the game plays. If you want a few other examples of unstoppable loops, here are a few of my favourite: 1. You control your opponents Lich's Mirror. Once you get 10 poison counters you enter a loop in which you constantly shuffle. No player can even react in this case. The loop is happening so "fast" that no one gets a chance to cast spells, activate abilities or do anything else 2. If you manage to make your Caged Sun a land (You can for example make it a creature with Karn, the Great Creator's +1 ability while having Ashaya, Soul of the Wild on the filed. Caged Sun is now a Artifact Creature Land) oce you tap it for mana, you enter a loop of Caged Sun's last ability constantly triggering, adding you more and more mana. This loop also can't be responded to, as the Caged Sun's ability doesn't use the stack. It happens instantly
yugioh and mtg are fascinating to compare. They both started out kinda rocky with a wild west setting when it came to card interpretation. Magic went the route of writing an airtight rules compendium over the years that anyone could reference as needed, while yugioh seems to have taken the easy way out at every turn either by disallowing anything that challenges the rules or by leaving it to a judge to figure out arbitrarily. Magic deals with things like this way better, I feel. If a card exists that breaks the rules, the card wins.
@@alexreffandWeeellll... I don't really know anything about MTG, but nowadays rules in Yugioh are quite detailed and quite complex. Plus, cards nowadays have card effects with very precise and codified wording to make sure it is abundantly clear how it interacts with other stuff. Problems still occasionnaly occur with older cards that haven't been reprinted with Problem-Solving Card Text, but... still
Great video, Coder. Would honestly love to see a history on TCG Exclusive Archetypes and their history in competitive play. With the new Ashen stuff coming out, it might just be a matter of timing to get a lot of views for the subject.
I loved this video! I subbed to your channel for all the cool rulings videos you did and wasn’t really into the stream highlight stuff (although maybe it did better for you, and if so, more power to ya). You did a great job for your first foray into the video essay format; it was well-paced, easy to follow, and well-edited. Well done! I hope to see more soon.
Thanks! I got very complacent and the highlights were just easier and did better overall, but I want to actually start making content that I care significantly more about. Glad you liked it!
old mind crush : let me see what those cheeto fingers have up in there ? new mind crush : i activate mind crush. I aint got none. Bro i didnt even call a card yet
This type of video is awesome particularly for someone like me who recently got back into Yu-Gi-Oh after not playing for so damn long, and wondering why there are so many rules now. Thank you Mr Coder it helps a lot. Your understanding of the game and how bite sized you make it is awesome
@@GrindcoreReborn I personally think it depends on the person so someone like me likes informative stuff that sounds interesting, but other people prefer entertainment.
I've learned an interesting amount and this content provides a unique background to plays and conditions that changed over time. It provides an opportunity to talk about and address Yu-Gi-Oh rulings and other concepts. This was awesome
Honestly, so many cards have common abilities that Keywords like MTG uses should become a thing. Like... tons of recent cards have what are basically (or literally) "Indestructible", "Hexproof", or "Trample" (Piercing Damage).
In fairness, MTG keeps adding more and more keywords to the point trying to remember them all is getting annoying. I think they at least rotate old keywords out so as to not bloat the game, but I'm sure there's some card with 15 different keywords on it by now.
To this day I still think the change to the verification rule was the wrong way to go. I understand why it was done (hand knowledge is insanely powerful) and I'm willing to bet there are very few actual cases of players using it to actively cheat. But just the fact the rules make such a scummy play possible and your only recourse is to eithet get a judge involved or catch them outright cheating (playing the card you called without having drawn more cards) doesn't sit right with me.
It's even worse when you realize there was a very easy alternative: *just make it illegal to use "known private information".* In the example provided here, people used a card to see the opponent's hands, and _then_ used Mind Crush. Well, just write a rule that forbids the use of Mind Crush when you got to see the opponent's hand. If someone tries to use a combo like that, you call a judge, it's very easy to see what the player tries since his graveyard is right here. Boom, problem solved. People can't cheat anymore and they can't use that hack either. Personally, as a huge fan but casual (I never played any tournament), I would rather be for full authorization of this hack. Playing a card to see the opponent's hand and then play another card using that information is an awesome combo.
Isn't it that for uncontrolled infinite loops, the primary cause card is only put into the grave if the game state is not advancing? For example, in the anime Yugi v Marik duel, Marik is drawing cards and not putting any cards from anywhere back into his deck each loop, thus the game state _is advancing_ and has an end point of one player losing the duel. But in your Jinzo example, with no other cards or effects active, the game state does not advance in any way (no cards are moved out of or drawn from decks, neither player loses life points, etc), thus in _that_ game state the most responsible card would be put into its owner's grave.
Yes. That Slifer Loop is legal because the game state is changing (Strings draws cards until he can't draw more, causing him to lose). There's a loop with Beelze and something in the Red-Eyes archetype that leads to your opponent getting into a loop of Burn Damage until they hit 0 and lose. Also legal. Jinzo doing flips around the board and Pole Position swapping targets infinitely aren't because nothing about the game state that could lead to the loop ending.
This video was great. I have something to add for the loop story: Some ppl. just went on and created loops that would pop off as soon as the opponent summons a monster. Some judges startet ruling those incidents as if the person summoning the monster is the problem because they are causind the loop to start and received a penalty.
I'm not exactly sure what other topic would be good to go over, but this was really well put together. Definitely would like to see more in this style. Maybe covrring niche interactions that ended up being important in a tournament setting? Basically something like the pole position "combo" but that cropped up in a YCS
A famous “Uncontrolled loop” is Prime Material Dragon vs Bad Reaction To Simochi/Darklord Nurse Rificul. There’s an old ruling that (in the case of this loop) essentially states each card can only respond to another once in a chain (so if you activate Rain of Mercy, Bad Reaction would respond to Rain, Prime responds to Reaction, then Reaction to Prime, but Prime wouldn’t respond to Reaction again, because it already did it once in that chain. On the opposite if you activated Sparks, Prime responds to sparks, Reaction to Prime, then Prime to Reaction, but Reaction wouldn’t respond to Prime, because it already did once in that chain.)
I haven't been to your channel since you stopped posting judge calls as this was what interested me in your content in the first place, but I loved this video was really good, and would gladly watch more of those!
Fun fact about uncontrollable loops: they are allowed if they cause a change in the game state. For instance: Beelze gains attack everytime it's controller takes damage, and Flare Metal Dragon deals damage everytime opponent's effect activates. So Beelze gains atk, Flare Metal burn and so on and so forth. But because one player takes damage, it's allowed to continue.
@@lefthandedscout9923what he said ^ if it makes a change but isnt working towards a win condition the “problem card” in that scenario will be sent to the GY to end the loop
This was a really cool watch! As someone that stopped playing for a good few years it’s cool to see some stories/scenarios that dictated how the game is played now. These kinds of video essays always interest me because I get to learn about the history of the card game I enjoy the most without feeling like I’ve got to go looking through reddit threads from 5+ years ago
Regarding Hoban and the "Gentleman's Agreements", according to what Pat wrote in Road of the King, starting on Page 351 on a section labeled "Agreeing to Side Out" and continuing to Page 354, he details the reasoning behind it. It dated back to agreeing to side out "Return from the Different Dimension" during 2013's Dragon Ruler Format. Hoban would side out the Return bc he realized that he just couldnt win when that card was used. He states on the bottom of Page 351 that "We could present Return as a mutual enemy, and note that we should agree to take it out in the spirit of a 'fair game'. In reality, it had nothing to do with wanting a fair game. We were asking our opponents... bc we thought we were better players and that it being there benefitted them more than it benefitted us... Being able to present it as being in the spirit of 'fairness' got ppl to agree to it... Return was an unfair card. It was just more unfair to the better player. The beauty of offering it only against players we thought were worse was that they werent good enough to realize that it benefitted the better player more... For ARG Circuit Series Fort Lauderdale, I had the idea of side decking a second copy of Djinn... We could ask to side a Djinn out, show them..., and then side in a second copy. The idea got lots of attention, mostly negative, in spite of it being completely legal. I'm not one who believes in adhering to made-up rules that dont exist outside of players minds.... Thinking that the Djinn move was unfair simply goes against the entire idea of asking to side out cards, as it was created to give the better player an advantage. Something is either legal and should be allowed, or illegal and shouldnt be allowed." He then details how he never actually sided the second copy in, but took the heat anyways so his friend Ben Leverett wouldnt. Hoban says "It was my idea..., but i just didnt have a good chance to [execute it]. One round went to time G1, another round my opponent refused to side it out, and one last round, i was playing on camera.... Would i consider doing it again? The only reason against it would be that doing so would cost me FUTURE games. News of my tactic would spread, and ppl would refuse to take out some future Return-like card that they would otherwise agree to take out if i do not employ the strategy.... While i didnt try it again, I find it amazing what a smile and 'Dont worry, I'm not sidding any extra copies' can assure ppl of." Make of these quotes what you will. If it shows anything, it just confirms what most of the community prbly already thinks about him. The point is, he only did the Gentleman's Agreements all because he COULD (at the time), and knew it would benefit him as he was the better player.
Great video. You are the ruling master, so a video about obscure rulings impacting matches or something like that could be fun (if there's such a thing).
Yu-Gi-Oh: Oh, you created a loop? That's alright, we'll just send the resposible card to the graveyard and continue on with the game. Magic: Oh, you created a loop? Fuck it, game's a draw.
@@christophersavignon4191and you gotta read up on the rule. Yes, you CAN interrupt it, but no forced to. (from a Reddit post asking about this) Player A has Lightning Strike, which is an optional action to cast it on Marauding Raptor, terminating the loop. Per rules, Player A is NOT forced to do so, ending in a draw. This why MTG is better. No sneaky or shitty actions like in YGO.
@@fireblade295 It's still up to the player instead of just randomly breaking the game, that's the point. Layers also prevent many random YGO loops from occuring in the first place. No need to play the smartass when you can't even follow the conversation.
These are the best ways to deal with it imo. Sending the problem card is the best solution with external input. Drawing is the best solution without external input.
As a mtg player, so many of these sound totally insane. I think the 2 biggest for me are no hand verifications, and the uncontrolled loops. No hand verification just seems absurd, and makes any hand targeting effects like the one you mentioned unplayable. I can't imagine any card with that type of effect not including a clause which requires the opponent to reveal their hand as proof. Loops is less crazy, but still seems like a weird way to rule it. Both the old and new versions seem really weird. In Magic, an uncontrolled loop like that just draws the game unless the loop results in someone winning, or someone is capable of breaking the loop. The most famous of these types of loops is Polyraptor and Marauding Raptor. Polyraptor has an ability which makes a copy of itself whenever it takes damage, and marauding raptor says that when a creature enters under your control it deals 2 damage to that creature. This causes you to create an infinite number of Polyraptors, and is uncontrollable unless someone has an instant that can break the loop.
How exactly were they playing slow? It is not physically possible to shuffle a deck like that fast. I'm sure they were moving as fast as they physically possibly could.
Knowing konamis mind set, on the pole position part of the video, they would probably ban Phoenix blade and then release a brand new Phoenix blade 2 in the next set. But great video, definitely would be nice to see more like these in the future.
I do not even know of your channel nor do I play Yu-Gi-Oh but from a new fan, I love video essays on topics like this! It’s super informative and I liked the lost kinda format and explanation :)
Watching this made me realize again how much I liked your scripted videos about ruling topics. The stream highlights aren't my thing, but whenever you do other content I generally enjoy it. I hope this video performs well!
Konami : knowing your opponents deck is a violation of private information. Also Konami submit your decklist so your opponent can call you out to a judge if you are playing with anything not in your deck
Oh this is fun! I caused a rule to be created thanks to playing a new deck in a tournament! I believe one of the cards is now actually banned because of this but at the time, the rule that was put into effect was that if the combo happened, it could only happen once and could not infinitely loop. I played a Magician deck that had the three card combo: Magical Marionette, Gearfired the Iron Knight, and Butterfly Dagger - Elma. I could remove as many monsters as I wanted from the field, then if I was sure I was safe, could bump MM's damage up as high as I needed to strike and win. It's probably old and well known now, but it was something brand new when I played it! To give you an idea of how long ago this was, it was before the first banned card ever happened in YGO. XD
Never in my life watched yu-gi-oh or played but for the last 3 days I’ve just been binging your content 😂 great stuff man, super intriguing even for someone with less than zero knowledge
Fun note on the first one: the deck was dubbed ''Mischen Impossible'' as Mischen means Shuffle in German. :)
That's brilliant
Love that especially because I am german haha that joke is so good😂
And they say we don't have humor...
it also look like Mission impossible, lol.
@@RBTGamming Mission and Mischen is also pronounced basically the same, so thats kinda the joke
That deck is like 4-5 feet tall and they sleeved it. That's dedication.
And having 3 copies of tons of cards but still making it a dedicated "Forced shuffle deck". Hehe funny how that would be initially overlooked as the Anime had the horribly obvious trait of having characters play with full 60 card decks yet SOMEHOW only draw the same 15 cards across an entire series over and over. And the rare times they did draw entirely new cards it's always implied they changed their deck anyway. With 60 cards, there's no way. Especially Zane somehow consistently pulling 2 or 3 copies of Cyber dragon and some fusion card (usaully Power bond). So naturally they seemed to assume deck size limits weren't a big deal evidently. It really makes a huge difference too. making it 20-30 cards in Duel Links seems to be just enough of a shift to make some archetypes a lot more powerful cause they're more consistent without needing searchers, compared to the TCG's 40-60 which requires searchers and lots of filler cards to account for the larger size.
It’s fucking dumb 2,222 card deck that’s just dumb as fuck
Holy fuck I didn't notice that and that just makes it even funnier. These guys are legends.
No seriously
Trust me that wasn't allowed and having a 4 ft tall deck would have immediately disqualified from the tournament
One of my favorite examples of this was the “concept of a handshake” ruling. Basically people tried to make a combo to activate Yu-Jo friendship that forced the opponent to accept the handshake or lose and then made their hand disgusting so you didn’t want to shake it. This led to the amazing ruling that your opponent only needs to agree to “the concept of a handshake” not literally have to shake your hand
I was gonna mention this too. The specific combo is having the card unity in your hand. The effect of Yujo Friendship is the handshake is mandatory if you have it. Kinda sad how some degenerates ruined a pretty wholesome card.
I won't shake hands with any yugioh player to begin with
Coming from the community that made the shower policy necessary it's understandable that people wouldn't accept it
In a post pandemic world this strategy would be even more effective. I believe they also made a rule that requires a certain level of hygiene from players, so if you show up to a tournament smelling like a dead cat, they can actually ban you for breaking an official rule lol
Imagine this card being played back then during covid.
The first one lol
"My deck has no pathetic cards!"
"Your deck has over 2,000 cards and youre telling me you use all of them for your strategy? Yeah, right.."
I'm imagining a kid playing the deck against someone older.
"My win condition is living longer than you"
5 deck shuffles shuffles later...
"You wanna find out?" Lets duel but first the shuffling..
“Judge, we got a loo-“
“Get rid of the Pole Position”
“But I didn’t finish my sentence?”
“I see Pole Position, the problem is Pole Position”
"Judge the loo-"
"Who put down another Pole Position? Get rid of it."
@@nightmare3642 Now I'm imagining the judge just shouting "POLE POSITION!" on reflex to any question asked, even if it's something like "would you like ketchup on your burger"
Use 2222 cards deck
Draw 5 pieces of Exodia first turn
Those 2 guy: "DAMN IT"
0:40 Deck limit
2:58 Gentleman’s agreement
5:54 Mind Crush
8:39 Self destruct button
12:36 Loops
Thx
When i saw this i thought they added a rule where you cant mind crush your opponents after you beat them in tournaments. Thank god thats still allowed, sending people to the hospital over a cards game is why i started playing this back in 2004
Thanks
You are the man.
@@StarmenRockYou can’t ban Shadow Game. Shadow Game bans you!
As a note, uncontrolled loops are perfectly allowed if they change the gamestate in a way that eventually leads either to the loop ending on its own or killing the opponent, such as the Beelze & Red Eyes Loop which burns the opponent until they have no lifepoints left due to the mandatory trigger effects of both monsters.
then its not infinite
@@heheheiamasupahstarslam5397 it was not described as an infinite loop in the video or in my comment. It specifically referred to loops and made a distinction between uncontrolled and controlled loops. He stated that uncontrolled loops did not work in Yugioh and the offending card would be destroyed by game mechanics. But in the case of Red Eyes + Beelze, it is an uncontrolled loop that is unaffected by this rule and the reason for that is because the thing that determines if a loop is legal is not if it's controlled or uncontrolled, but if it is accompanied by a meaningful change in game state and if it can/will stop. The Six Samurai loop he mentioned is an example of a loop that can stop and the Beelze loop is an example of a loop that will stop. It's just a matter of when.
Ya you can read that in the rules they show on the video
The Slifer loop in the anime is a perfect example
@@MorePower8679 I mean, it would be if Revival Jam actually worked that way.
I don't like introducing anime effects to these discussions because the effects don't match to the game effects.
imagine how op the current time rules would be with no deck size limit and decks that take hours to shuffle, you just shuffle your deck once and activate sparks
Imagine if grass was legal
@@ipermario2 i mean you will never draw it tho
before 5ds era we also had no size limit to extra deck, imagine that these days
memory crusher, the good old days
@@Skalvern >walk in
>play against dogmatika
>wait for them to resolve alba zoa
>profit
Worth of mention is that Pole Position was such a problematic card that most games, including Master Duel do not have it featured because of the difficulties to program it properly, so it's often excluded. Such a legacy that common card left in the game.
Pole position isn’t in most official online games/simulators? Holy fuck. And bcuz its too complex for a computer to fully understand it? Jesus!
@@baileydombroskie3046 Pole Position was, and still is a rulings nightmare. Back when Upper Deck ran the TCG, they had a list of rulings for Pole Position that was absurdly long. Pole position had so many instances of infinite loops that you had no control over.
@@DevoteeofMamaRaikou mighty god! Wat a legendary card pole position is!
I can already imagine the chaos that would erupt in MD if pole position was in the game there would probably be a deck dedicated to Pole position on the tier list rn that’s if it wasn’t one of the first cards that were to get banned like VFD and Halqi. goddamn 🤣
Another card that isn’t in most games is Spirit Elimination, though not because it was a rulings nightmare. It’s because it was really difficult to program, so much so that they couldn’t figure out how to do so at all.
For those unaware, Spirit Elimination is a Normal Spell Card whose only effect is a lingering effect that lasts until the end of the turn. What it does is it allows you to substitute Monsters on your field for Monsters in your Graveyard whenever a card would banish them. So, if your opponent uses, say, Soul Release to banish one of your Monsters from your GY, you can instead choose a Monster on your side of the field. You could also Summon cards like Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning by banishing 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK Monster from your side of the field instead of your Graveyard. (And yes, the substitutes must fit the conditions for whatever was banishing them in the first place. Battle Tuned must banish a Tuner, Hundred Eyes Dragon must banish a Level 6 or lower DARK Effect Monster, Rainbow Dragon must banish "Crystal Beast" Monsters, Dark Necrofear must banish 3 Fiend-type Monsters, etc.)
From what I understand, it doesn’t work for Monsters that trigger effects by banishing _themselves_ from the GY (like Blue-Eyes Abyss Dragon, which can banish itself from the GY to give a 1000-ATK boost to all your Level 8+ Dragon-type Monsters), but it _does_ apply to effects that are Chained to its activation (so if someone Chains Big Burn (which banishes all Monsters from both players’ GYs) to it or a later card in the same Chain, the player who activated Soul Elimination banishes all Monsters from their field instead of their GY (the other player banishes all Monsters from their GY as normal), which is _not_ what you’d expect from that interaction). You can also activate it even if Necrovalley (for any of its 8 errata or its original) is in effect as it 1) doesn’t banish cards from either player’s GY; 2) doesn’t move cards from either GY to either player’s field, deck, or Extra Deck; 3) it doesn’t target any cards in the GY (4th erratum only); 4) doesn’t affect any of the cards in the GY (2nd, 3rd, and 5th errata); 5) doesn’t technically involve the GY (original and 1st errata); and 6) doesn’t change the Types or Attributes in the GY (7th and 8th errata). (Technically, it allows you to bypass Necrovalley for cards that normally banish Monsters from your GY since Necrovalley only negates banishing effects that specifically banish cards from the GY, and Spirit Elimination makes it so that you instead banish from your _field,_ so unless it does something else to the GY that would be negated, the effect would still work, I think.)
Now, there are some potential rulings nightmares in there, though since it was almost never played in official games, there aren’t many rulings on it. The problem is programming it. See, although nothing about the card’s text suggests that it’s optional, from what I can tell from the rulings on it, it _may_ usually be optional (I say “usually” because the ruling on Big Burn makes it sound like you _have_ to banish from your field instead, and “may” because the rulings are a bit ambiguous and have since been declared unofficial). You _cannot,_ however, mix and match between banishing Monsters from your field and your GY. More importantly, though, is the fact that conditions for banishing from your GY still apply (as mentioned previously with cards like Battle Tuned, Hundred Eyes Dragon, many "Chaos" or "- Envoy of the" Monsters, Dark Necrofear, or Rainbow Dragon), and there is a ruling in place that, for most cases, you cannot activate a card if there are insufficient “targets” for it to fully resolve (so you can’t activate Rainbow Dragon’s board-clearing effect if you have no "Crystal Beast" monsters in your GY (normally) or on your side of the field (with Spirit Elimination), nor can you activate Hundred Eyes Dragon’s effect if you have no Level-6-or-below DARK Monsters in your GY (normally) or on your field (with Spirit Elimination). That would mean that every card that banishes one or more monsters from the GY(s) (yours, your opponent’s, either, or both) must also check if either or both player’s have Spirit Elimination’s effect active (there are ways to activate a Normal Spell Card’s effect during your opponent’s turn) and, if so, check the field of that player to see if there are valid targets there. Oh, and since it’s a lingering effect that can trigger multiple times in a single Chain, it gets even more complicated. Not to mention other complications.
In IRL play, most of these are pretty easy to work around. For a computer, though, it’s a lot messier.
In fact, only one official game has had Spirit Elimination in it, and even then, it was on the Forbidden list of that game so that they didn’t have to actually program the darn thing properly.
I want to be buried in the 2222 deck box and have the same lads be my pallbearers
Shuffle my ashes with the 2222 card deck box
Funfact about the box: my best friend had this for years in his home. Just because, we both know this two dudes who brought the deck to a tournament. Now it’s back at it’s owner.
I initially read "pallbearers" as "ballbreakers" and was wery confused lol
@@flozeitlos8901u personally know those 2 legends? Those 2 legendary duellists. My god! Hallelujah!
Not sure why...but I think it would make that part funnier if they strolled in to the tune of the coffin dance
I love how Konami went "alright yes we added a draw button, but to be clear we also added a double loss butt for when yall wanna mess around and find out"
As someone who knows nothing about the TCG (or OCG) this video explains these concepts very clearly. Great video.
Yugioh's one of those games where if you don't know anything about it or haven't played in years, it can seem like a lot is going on, but play Duel Links or watch the anime and you'll be right up to speed. It's surprisingly easy to pick up and learn again as most of the semantics are all spelled out in the cards so long as you literally do what the card says, you'll be fine. Only a few rules and mostly exceptions are in the rule book and there aren't that many that apply to most general games.
@@MarioMastar yeah as someone who fell out of it shortly after XYZ was added but got back into it via Master Duel (main reason of falling out was just not having local players), MD's tutorials were a great way to tell me how exactly Links work. Pendulums... yeah no I still don't get those but thankfully I can count the number of Pendulum users I've faced in MD on one hand.
18:20 how long before someone finds (if there isn't already a known instance) a deck that can create an uncontrolled infinite loop with an effect from the graveyard?
I think that is why now cards has a “Once per turn” in their description
Imagine if the judge sending the problem card to the gy, activates your second uncrotrolled loop 😂😂
To avoid rulings nightmares the card is sent without activating any effect and most of the loop generators don't have effects in the Graveyard that generates a loop.Most,if someone finds something this will come up
Ultimate strategy: Create an uncontrolled loop that would force a judge to send a specific problem card to the graveyard as a way to send that card to the graveyard faster than you could otherwise
I'm sure Dawnstar could figure something out.
I'm pretty sure the judge would be looking at every card on the field before he sends the problem card to the graveyard. So if one of those cards in the loop had a graveyard effect, the judge wouldn't discard that one, just another card in the loop that wouldn't be a problem in the graveyard. And if you activate a trap card that continues the loop, the judge would discard that too.
@@stardust9470 It specifically said in the rules shown in the video, "Any effects that could activate as a result of the card going to the Graveyard can/will still activate accordingly." 🤨
As a German I love the fact that the Deck limit was caused by 2 Germans who wanted to prove a point 😂
They proved a point during 1945 anyway.
Was gonna say the last time 2 Germans made a point...
@@TinkyWiwinky I am glad you inherit a failing earth
Ever since I heard about it Mischen: Impossible (the 2222 card deck) has become my favorite piece of Yugioh trivia. ManyKudos made a video about Yugioh and had a segment about that deck and he found a comment from one of the guys saying that their intention wasn’t actually to get the rule changed but rather take advantage of the lack of deck size and just make people laugh. Idk how true it is so take that with a grain of salt
Excellent video Coder. Narration is great and the editing is fantastic. I love video essay style videos so can’t wait to see more of these from you.
Deck itself funny
but its hard to laugh if those shuffle mechanics were involved. Like asking a magic player about going against 4 Shaharizads.
Given the effort taken to make sure a deck that size was legal and the fact it was only done that one time, it sounded like it had to be deliberate to make a point about the rule change. I could see it being a funny joke given the fedoras and how silly it looked, but they ultimately did resign after a single game when the point was made clear.
Also to avoid losing from having no more cards in deck, after seeing Marik lose to Yu-Gi this way.
They didn't have to get the rules changed as the rules perfectly covered a case like theirs. They were awarded a Warning, a Game Loss, a Match Loss and a DQ due to not being able to randomize their deck in a timely manner.
@@soulwarrior Yes but that still wasted time for everyone involved and ultimately allowed for potentially entire tournaments to be ruined, when the fix is as simple as putting a maximum limit to deck size it's just the sensible thing to do to prevent these situations
"Dude, Trust Me" is soooooooooooooooooooooo dumb. Cheating has to be rampant, because a single hand rearrange after the next draw and "oops, drew the card you just named, lucky me". (oh, and reverse, when this actually happens, it going to look like cheating).
not really, a lot of card naming cards aren't used very frequently because it's very unreliable.
That's the point, it stopped the card from being over used.
There aren't a lot of cards that cause verification in the first place. Most discard effects are non targeting. And most cards only effect known information.
The only cards that would cause verification are terrible. And cards that reveal information written in to the text are balanced around that.
The entirety of yugioh is balanced around hidden information
The obvious indicator of this is the concept of trap cards and flip effects
I do not get this rule. Like was it so hard to simply have a judge do hand check? And simply saying its not there?
I guess we would have to call a judge to verify. 🤷🏻♂️
PLEASE do more of this, i miss your judge content and this fills that void ever so slightly
As a Magic player the “no verification” rule definitely feels the weirdest.
As in, you need to call a judge every time you need to verify something…?
That would make sense, but this is Yu-Gi-Oh. You can't even call over a judge. You just have to trust your opponent.
(I think calling over a judge would be a good option; if that takes too long, hire more judges.)
wait what you cant call over a judge in yugioh? that sounds like a cheaters paradise or saying "yeah im sure thats how it works" to people that are not as rules inclined is a super big advantage @@alaeriia01
The most known consequences of "no verification" is Infernity players sneaking monsters in their backrow and conceding when said backrow would be destroyed.
I was looking for this comment lol
What do you mean the rule was charged to "just trust me, bro"? Aren't judges there exactly for such things ??
yeah that rule is actually insane
With how knowledgeable you are about the rulings and the game, combined with the manner you explain them in this video, it becomes a really nice experience to just listen to the video. I also like how there is a plus to watching the video as cards and such are shown, but it is by no means necessary to do more than just listen to enjoy the video. Excellent work with this, I'll continue to look out for more of these videos as long as you make them!
8:45 why not let a *JUDGE* check the hand or whatever? he just confirms the honesty and that's that. jesus christ not that hard
I feel like having to keep calling a judge to your table every time someone played one of those cards would get annoying fast, especially when they need to solve actual ruling issues.
Or you know, add a "Opponent reveals their hand" clause to Mind Crush (and similar hand-search effects if any), and implement failure to find rules for deck searches. Works for MtG
For large tournaments, the amount of judges you would need would be problematic and grind play to a halt.
@@theduckcompany then let the players do the verification themselves. "Just trust me bro" being an official ruling in any game is just absurd
@@notlark650 When someone is being dishonest about what cards they have in hand or deck is pretty easy to find out and there's barely any playable cards that interact that way, so on the fringe case you really wanna be certain about it you can just call a judge
I always imagined using That Grass Looks Greener on a deck like that if you managed to see it lol
Chain 576, response?
Tearlaments be like
lightsworns say hi
@JustinNelson-kx7qy i summon Judgment Dragon.
"you sure you have 4 lightsworns in GY?"
@@FrogPrinceMichael61 "You're more than welcome to count them"
2:46 I did something similar once as a kid. I realized there was no limit so I went to a tournament with a deck built to force discards. Knowing most people would only have around the 40 minimum I went with 120 (3x) cards and tried this. After sitting down and getting snide comments from players saying I used too many, I ended up doing ok. It wasn’t built to win, it was built to have fun with the rules and stand out.
It's like that team APS video from 2020-2023. You just gotta have all your fun cards. Lol.
That first story about the giga deck always makes me laugh. I wish there was a video of them just trying to shuffle the damn thing. I like watching Yu-gi-oh! vids like this, and I'd love to see more. No particular topics come to mind, but I figured you'd give us a nice and fun spin on things.
Imagine if they never did that and deck size limits never existed when grass came out 💀
basically @@Angel-Amari I WOULD END MY LIFE OF WHAT GRAVE EFFECTS HAPPEN KEKW
I can just see ishizu tear at cl22
Why wouldn't the game have started with deck size limits? Did the other card games have an incident like that to make their deck size limits? Like the Pokémon TCG having exactly 60 cards. Has anyone tried to play Pokémon with over 2000 cards to make Nintendo give us a rule that our decks should be 60? No, I've got the Base Set and the rules were 60 cards back then too.
I remember reading the rule book for the first decks they released, and I could have sworn it said decks must be 40 to 60 cards. No idea how this got through the rules.
@@SeanWheeler100
As a player of a fellow trading card game (Magic: the Gathering) it always fascinates me learning about the mechanics of other TCG games, and this video was very enlightening for that! Thanks! In MTG I know of one thing that would be considered an "Uncontrolled" loop involving a card called Polyraptor. Basically, any time Polyraptor is damaged it creates a copy of itself. The loop consists of having an effect that damages the Polyraptor that is triggered by a creature entering play. With one of these effects in play, it results in a never-ending loop of Polyraptors being generated as each one is damaged upon being played and thus triggering its duplication ability.
I believe in official settings if there is no way to end the loop, the game is simply declared a draw. Honestly I think Yu-Gi-Oh's rules deal with it better in this regard, as Polyraptor could theoretically could be used to force draws.
I strongly disagree. The strength of MTG is that it can be played without any judge. They are there during tournaments only to enforce rules, not make calls that impact how the game plays. If you want a few other examples of unstoppable loops, here are a few of my favourite:
1.
You control your opponents Lich's Mirror. Once you get 10 poison counters you enter a loop in which you constantly shuffle. No player can even react in this case. The loop is happening so "fast" that no one gets a chance to cast spells, activate abilities or do anything else
2.
If you manage to make your Caged Sun a land (You can for example make it a creature with Karn, the Great Creator's +1 ability while having Ashaya, Soul of the Wild on the filed. Caged Sun is now a Artifact Creature Land) oce you tap it for mana, you enter a loop of Caged Sun's last ability constantly triggering, adding you more and more mana. This loop also can't be responded to, as the Caged Sun's ability doesn't use the stack. It happens instantly
yugioh and mtg are fascinating to compare. They both started out kinda rocky with a wild west setting when it came to card interpretation. Magic went the route of writing an airtight rules compendium over the years that anyone could reference as needed, while yugioh seems to have taken the easy way out at every turn either by disallowing anything that challenges the rules or by leaving it to a judge to figure out arbitrarily. Magic deals with things like this way better, I feel. If a card exists that breaks the rules, the card wins.
@@alexreffandWeeellll...
I don't really know anything about MTG, but nowadays rules in Yugioh are quite detailed and quite complex. Plus, cards nowadays have card effects with very precise and codified wording to make sure it is abundantly clear how it interacts with other stuff. Problems still occasionnaly occur with older cards that haven't been reprinted with Problem-Solving Card Text, but... still
Add an effect where every time a new monster enters play it attacks the opponent and you're looking at a pretty cool win.
Great video, Coder. Would honestly love to see a history on TCG Exclusive Archetypes and their history in competitive play. With the new Ashen stuff coming out, it might just be a matter of timing to get a lot of views for the subject.
Last TCG exclusive archetype that was meta & actually good on release was Danger! in 2018.
@@dandomen3584 punk pride had multiple ycs tops
I loved this video! I subbed to your channel for all the cool rulings videos you did and wasn’t really into the stream highlight stuff (although maybe it did better for you, and if so, more power to ya). You did a great job for your first foray into the video essay format; it was well-paced, easy to follow, and well-edited. Well done! I hope to see more soon.
Thanks! I got very complacent and the highlights were just easier and did better overall, but I want to actually start making content that I care significantly more about. Glad you liked it!
@@DistantCoder I wouldn't say the other stuff was bad content, but I am much more interested in this kind of stuff. Great work Kevin (& team).
My favorite change of rule is the handshake one. Forcing your opponent to shake your hand over and over
Was not expecting this type of video, but please do more of these.
I second the motion!
old mind crush : let me see what those cheeto fingers have up in there ?
new mind crush : i activate mind crush. I aint got none. Bro i didnt even call a card yet
I vote for more Distant Coder video essays ✋😗
This was both informative AND entertaining
Agreed, he's very entertaining when he's not screaming randomly
This type of video is awesome particularly for someone like me who recently got back into Yu-Gi-Oh after not playing for so damn long, and wondering why there are so many rules now. Thank you Mr Coder it helps a lot. Your understanding of the game and how bite sized you make it is awesome
I hope this video does well because these are video types that I at least love.
Honestly man. It sucks that videos like these haven't benefited from the algorithm, since no one does these ruling videos quite like Coder.
@@GrindcoreReborn I personally think it depends on the person so someone like me likes informative stuff that sounds interesting, but other people prefer entertainment.
There’s other content creators who do a better job at this, mega capital g is who he copied this video from for example
@@YeahSureLetsGoSeeYamcha And? That doesn't change anything really.
4:43 "Mister president, a second Djinn has hit the deck"
I've learned an interesting amount and this content provides a unique background to plays and conditions that changed over time. It provides an opportunity to talk about and address Yu-Gi-Oh rulings and other concepts. This was awesome
Honestly, so many cards have common abilities that Keywords like MTG uses should become a thing. Like... tons of recent cards have what are basically (or literally) "Indestructible", "Hexproof", or "Trample" (Piercing Damage).
In fairness, MTG keeps adding more and more keywords to the point trying to remember them all is getting annoying. I think they at least rotate old keywords out so as to not bloat the game, but I'm sure there's some card with 15 different keywords on it by now.
To this day I still think the change to the verification rule was the wrong way to go. I understand why it was done (hand knowledge is insanely powerful) and I'm willing to bet there are very few actual cases of players using it to actively cheat. But just the fact the rules make such a scummy play possible and your only recourse is to eithet get a judge involved or catch them outright cheating (playing the card you called without having drawn more cards) doesn't sit right with me.
it just needs an addition of being able to get an outside of the game person to verify the info, then that solves the issue of info advantage
It's even worse when you realize there was a very easy alternative: *just make it illegal to use "known private information".*
In the example provided here, people used a card to see the opponent's hands, and _then_ used Mind Crush.
Well, just write a rule that forbids the use of Mind Crush when you got to see the opponent's hand.
If someone tries to use a combo like that, you call a judge, it's very easy to see what the player tries since his graveyard is right here.
Boom, problem solved. People can't cheat anymore and they can't use that hack either.
Personally, as a huge fan but casual (I never played any tournament), I would rather be for full authorization of this hack. Playing a card to see the opponent's hand and then play another card using that information is an awesome combo.
Isn't it that for uncontrolled infinite loops, the primary cause card is only put into the grave if the game state is not advancing?
For example, in the anime Yugi v Marik duel, Marik is drawing cards and not putting any cards from anywhere back into his deck each loop, thus the game state _is advancing_ and has an end point of one player losing the duel.
But in your Jinzo example, with no other cards or effects active, the game state does not advance in any way (no cards are moved out of or drawn from decks, neither player loses life points, etc), thus in _that_ game state the most responsible card would be put into its owner's grave.
Yes. That Slifer Loop is legal because the game state is changing (Strings draws cards until he can't draw more, causing him to lose). There's a loop with Beelze and something in the Red-Eyes archetype that leads to your opponent getting into a loop of Burn Damage until they hit 0 and lose. Also legal. Jinzo doing flips around the board and Pole Position swapping targets infinitely aren't because nothing about the game state that could lead to the loop ending.
this is the best video you've made. I loved the vibe and the information was actually hella cool. I would love to see more of this.
This video was great.
I have something to add for the loop story:
Some ppl. just went on and created loops that would pop off as soon as the opponent summons a monster.
Some judges startet ruling those incidents as if the person summoning the monster is the problem because they are causind the loop to start and received a penalty.
I'm not exactly sure what other topic would be good to go over, but this was really well put together. Definitely would like to see more in this style. Maybe covrring niche interactions that ended up being important in a tournament setting? Basically something like the pole position "combo" but that cropped up in a YCS
A famous “Uncontrolled loop” is Prime Material Dragon vs Bad Reaction To Simochi/Darklord Nurse Rificul. There’s an old ruling that (in the case of this loop) essentially states each card can only respond to another once in a chain (so if you activate Rain of Mercy, Bad Reaction would respond to Rain, Prime responds to Reaction, then Reaction to Prime, but Prime wouldn’t respond to Reaction again, because it already did it once in that chain. On the opposite if you activated Sparks, Prime responds to sparks, Reaction to Prime, then Prime to Reaction, but Reaction wouldn’t respond to Prime, because it already did once in that chain.)
I haven't been to your channel since you stopped posting judge calls as this was what interested me in your content in the first place, but I loved this video was really good, and would gladly watch more of those!
Brilliant debut video essay. Very informative and have sent this to a few of my friends who play for them to enjoy. Keep them coming :)
Fun fact about uncontrollable loops: they are allowed if they cause a change in the game state. For instance: Beelze gains attack everytime it's controller takes damage, and Flare Metal Dragon deals damage everytime opponent's effect activates. So Beelze gains atk, Flare Metal burn and so on and so forth. But because one player takes damage, it's allowed to continue.
It has to be a loop with net change that results in a win condition being fulfilled, but yes
@@lefthandedscout9923what he said ^
if it makes a change but isnt working towards a win condition the “problem card” in that scenario will be sent to the GY to end the loop
This was a really cool watch! As someone that stopped playing for a good few years it’s cool to see some stories/scenarios that dictated how the game is played now. These kinds of video essays always interest me because I get to learn about the history of the card game I enjoy the most without feeling like I’ve got to go looking through reddit threads from 5+ years ago
The intro gave me "top 5 youtubers who've sworn" vibes 🤣
Those two German judges committed maybe the biggest good prank in trading card history.
This is leagues ahead of your normal TH-cam output, so awesome! Definitely keep it up
Regarding Hoban and the "Gentleman's Agreements", according to what Pat wrote in Road of the King, starting on Page 351 on a section labeled "Agreeing to Side Out" and continuing to Page 354, he details the reasoning behind it.
It dated back to agreeing to side out "Return from the Different Dimension" during 2013's Dragon Ruler Format. Hoban would side out the Return bc he realized that he just couldnt win when that card was used. He states on the bottom of Page 351 that "We could present Return as a mutual enemy, and note that we should agree to take it out in the spirit of a 'fair game'. In reality, it had nothing to do with wanting a fair game. We were asking our opponents... bc we thought we were better players and that it being there benefitted them more than it benefitted us... Being able to present it as being in the spirit of 'fairness' got ppl to agree to it... Return was an unfair card. It was just more unfair to the better player. The beauty of offering it only against players we thought were worse was that they werent good enough to realize that it benefitted the better player more... For ARG Circuit Series Fort Lauderdale, I had the idea of side decking a second copy of Djinn... We could ask to side a Djinn out, show them..., and then side in a second copy. The idea got lots of attention, mostly negative, in spite of it being completely legal. I'm not one who believes in adhering to made-up rules that dont exist outside of players minds.... Thinking that the Djinn move was unfair simply goes against the entire idea of asking to side out cards, as it was created to give the better player an advantage. Something is either legal and should be allowed, or illegal and shouldnt be allowed."
He then details how he never actually sided the second copy in, but took the heat anyways so his friend Ben Leverett wouldnt. Hoban says "It was my idea..., but i just didnt have a good chance to [execute it]. One round went to time G1, another round my opponent refused to side it out, and one last round, i was playing on camera.... Would i consider doing it again? The only reason against it would be that doing so would cost me FUTURE games. News of my tactic would spread, and ppl would refuse to take out some future Return-like card that they would otherwise agree to take out if i do not employ the strategy.... While i didnt try it again, I find it amazing what a smile and 'Dont worry, I'm not sidding any extra copies' can assure ppl of."
Make of these quotes what you will. If it shows anything, it just confirms what most of the community prbly already thinks about him. The point is, he only did the Gentleman's Agreements all because he COULD (at the time), and knew it would benefit him as he was the better player.
Love this! Someone mentioned a video about the history of TCG exclusive archetypes and their competitive history and that sounds great!
First guy: 2222 Self-mill deck
Other guy: Mill deck
Cards with "Gain x attack for every x in graveyard": Our time has come!
Great video. You are the ruling master, so a video about obscure rulings impacting matches or something like that could be fun (if there's such a thing).
The photo of them styling and profiling casually walking with their deck on their shoulders with fedoras is truly a form of art in itself
Yu-Gi-Oh: Oh, you created a loop? That's alright, we'll just send the resposible card to the graveyard and continue on with the game.
Magic: Oh, you created a loop? Fuck it, game's a draw.
That's not how Magic works. Read up on the Stack and on Layers.
@@christophersavignon4191and you gotta read up on the rule.
Yes, you CAN interrupt it, but no forced to. (from a Reddit post asking about this) Player A has Lightning Strike, which is an optional action to cast it on Marauding Raptor, terminating the loop.
Per rules, Player A is NOT forced to do so, ending in a draw.
This why MTG is better. No sneaky or shitty actions like in YGO.
@@fireblade295
It's still up to the player instead of just randomly breaking the game, that's the point. Layers also prevent many random YGO loops from occuring in the first place. No need to play the smartass when you can't even follow the conversation.
These are the best ways to deal with it imo. Sending the problem card is the best solution with external input. Drawing is the best solution without external input.
**Does something**
1 Year latter, "You can have only 40 to 60 cards."
"I DID THAT"
As a mtg player, so many of these sound totally insane. I think the 2 biggest for me are no hand verifications, and the uncontrolled loops.
No hand verification just seems absurd, and makes any hand targeting effects like the one you mentioned unplayable. I can't imagine any card with that type of effect not including a clause which requires the opponent to reveal their hand as proof.
Loops is less crazy, but still seems like a weird way to rule it. Both the old and new versions seem really weird. In Magic, an uncontrolled loop like that just draws the game unless the loop results in someone winning, or someone is capable of breaking the loop. The most famous of these types of loops is Polyraptor and Marauding Raptor. Polyraptor has an ability which makes a copy of itself whenever it takes damage, and marauding raptor says that when a creature enters under your control it deals 2 damage to that creature. This causes you to create an infinite number of Polyraptors, and is uncontrollable unless someone has an instant that can break the loop.
Maximum deck size died for the sins of not giving obvious slow play violations.
How exactly were they playing slow? It is not physically possible to shuffle a deck like that fast. I'm sure they were moving as fast as they physically possibly could.
@@thatoneguy9309 slow play is about spending a reasonable time to do an action, not if you're doing it as fast as you can.
Those judges have been legends ever since I first saw them. That image of them carrying the deck over their shoulders is so iconic
Knowing konamis mind set, on the pole position part of the video, they would probably ban Phoenix blade and then release a brand new Phoenix blade 2 in the next set.
But great video, definitely would be nice to see more like these in the future.
Phoenix Blade is banned on the ocg. They may very well released an errata of it at some point.
I do not even know of your channel nor do I play Yu-Gi-Oh but from a new fan, I love video essays on topics like this! It’s super informative and I liked the lost kinda format and explanation :)
The the Dexter's laboratory sound effect 😂
Building a deck where the win-con is a judge called is as Chad a strategy as I’ve ever seen 👏
This was great, its like a duellogs video explaining certain things but with a lot more effort
The 2222-card deck really feels like something a one-off villain in the original anime would do. Duelist Kingdom antagonist-lookin dudes
This concept is dope man! I would love some essays on other obscure rulings and why they exist. Totally useful and entertaining!
omg I recognized my life point recreation video at 9:44 10:07 10:37. I am a fan of your content and I'm glad I could help you at least tiny bit. :D
Did you get credited at all?
@@bubbasully15 No, credit would be nice but I don't really need it for a recreation.
2:45 what’s crazy is the deck limit hasn’t changed since
The deck size limit story is always a favorite because my immediate next thought is "Activate Grass to mill 2000, response?"
8:30 Because as we all know, nobody is more trustworthy than a Yugioh Player
Really like this new video format/style from you @DistantCoder . It's well put together too, can't wait to see more like this!
imagine opening grass on a 2222 card deck
The card limit thing was needed back in the beginning their were decks that were made to delay long enough for you to just run out of cards and lose
...
That
Grass
Looks
Greener
Uhmm... For the mind crush thing, just get a judge to check it...? What even is this non existent problem with the easiest fix?
I think a better rule would be if the player is caught lying then they would forfeit the match.
8:36 as a magic player it's absolutely buckwild that all card that involves information about an opponents hand don't make you reveal the entire hand.
Video begins at 0:40
People can’t watch 40 seconds of intro but can tolerate binging 30 seconds shorts for Hours nowdays
@caffecodeina8304 if your comment had any substance, id tell people when it started, too.
@@chuckles819 damn 💀
Erm actually is starts at 0:00
@@caffecodeina8304Except I don’t. I don’t have TikTok and I avoid YT shorts like the plague.
The photo of the two lads has just become so much more iconic
Excellent video, you've explained each card as well which is rare due to yugitubers just assuming everyone watching knows all the pissing cards.
So you could in theory use an infinite loop to get a card you’d otherwise have trouble getting into the graveyard into the graveyard
On that first one, it made me think of the two musician assassins from Kung Fu Hustle. :D
Watching this made me realize again how much I liked your scripted videos about ruling topics. The stream highlights aren't my thing, but whenever you do other content I generally enjoy it. I hope this video performs well!
awesome video, coder! I hadn't known about a bunch of these. That pole position shinanigans be crazy.
Bro! The script, transitions/animations, and the "feel" of the video is top notch adapted to the content, great work!
This video is very interesting and informative, you got a new subscriber!
Konami : knowing your opponents deck is a violation of private information. Also Konami submit your decklist so your opponent can call you out to a judge if you are playing with anything not in your deck
I really love these types of videos. I work on the computer all day, so I can listen to them and still work. Good stuff, Coder.
Oh this is fun! I caused a rule to be created thanks to playing a new deck in a tournament! I believe one of the cards is now actually banned because of this but at the time, the rule that was put into effect was that if the combo happened, it could only happen once and could not infinitely loop. I played a Magician deck that had the three card combo: Magical Marionette, Gearfired the Iron Knight, and Butterfly Dagger - Elma. I could remove as many monsters as I wanted from the field, then if I was sure I was safe, could bump MM's damage up as high as I needed to strike and win.
It's probably old and well known now, but it was something brand new when I played it! To give you an idea of how long ago this was, it was before the first banned card ever happened in YGO. XD
I love it. Weird Yu-Gi-Oh history literally defines this game for me! There's so much obscure stuff and players are always pushing the envelope.
I feel like for mind crush verification it would be a good rule to have a judge verify since it doesn't reveal private knowledge to the other player
That, or a life point or discard cost. (With all discard effects being negated)
Never in my life watched yu-gi-oh or played but for the last 3 days I’ve just been binging your content 😂 great stuff man, super intriguing even for someone with less than zero knowledge
Not gonna lie, chief... This is an absolutely baller of a video. 11/10, keep up the amazing work man.
This might be your best video yet
That picture of them in the suits and hats carrying the deck over their shoulders is the most hardcore shiit ever wew
As someone who hasnt played yugioh in over a decade, i enjoyed this :)
Wow , this video is amazing, please do more. The editing/ production is top notch.
This is my first video of yours that I've ever watched. I really enjoyed it. Liked and subscribed - looking forward to more content like this.
That's how rules get changed in sports too. Mercilessly troll with them instead of trying to argue with the judges.
These kind of videos are most entertaining. I LOVE THEM + the editing is clean as well
Great video! Would love to see more of this style of content from you!