this has been debunked over and over and over, "defense distance" people still aim, having a red dot makes aiming at those close distances FASTER. stop being an old geezer, tons of real life examples out there especially of police using their firearms, they have dots, you still aim..."defense distance" doesnt mean you dont fking aim, thats the dumbest shit ive heard because if thats how you are TRAINING then you are WRONG. also cost is NOT a factor, you can easily get extremely solid affordable dots for around 150-200 bucks for your carry gun, stop acting like dots cost just as much if not more than your pistol. i started out thinking red dots were a gimmick but as soon as i shot one and then trained on it it is 100% faster than irons. stop perpetuating this myth that just because a self defense situation happens at a close range it just means you dont fucking aim your weapon, that shit is stupid and not true. @@thedirtygot9570
Listen here, highspeed. I didn't survive 12 tours at the Golden Corral Endless Buffet for you to flag me with your barrel through the screen like that.
One of the best things I heard in an older video of yours about “finding the red dot” was comparing it to a mouse on a computer. You don’t look for the cursor on the screen then move it, you look on the screen where you want to click and move the cursor to that point.
Or when you throw a baseball, football, softball -- do you watch your throwing hand the entire time? Do you watch it at all? Then why do differently with pistol and RDS?
As someone that has shot irons forever, I recently decided to go with an optic. And yes, some of that reason is because of my aging eyes. But mostly I just wanted to see what it was about. I always said that I target focused with my irons. And I did, but I would also shift my focus during a string of fire occasionally to the sights for realignment. After many many hours of practice and hundreds of draws I decided to take my new optic on my pistol to class. I had no problem “finding my dot” at all upon presentation, but if I lost it during a string of fire I would shift my focus to the optic to “find the dot”. My instructor who is a really cool older retired Marine was watching me knowing it was my first class with the optic. As soon as I “looked for the dot”, he would run right up beside me and in his best Gunny Sergeant Hartman impression screamed right at the side of my face. “I can see your damn eyes shifting focus! Look at the damn target!? Why are you looking at your damn gun!? You’re holding your gun! You know where the hell it is, so stop looking at it! Look at the threat that’s trying to kill you! You’re not holding the enemy. He might move on you and you need to know where he is! So look at the damn target and not your damn gun!!” I yelled “Sir! Yes sir!” Then we had a good laugh. The thing is, you think you’re target focused. But you’d be surprised at how much you’re really not. Especially with a dot.
@@jason200912 Absolutely. Great point. I could instantly tell as soon as I pulled the trigger if I moved the muzzle. It made it a lot easier to “call my shots” after the shot and know where it went before even seeing point of impact. Which is awesome for fixing any problems with your fundamentals. I could kind of do that with irons, but nowhere near as good or accurately with the dot.
Aww good trainer! I don’t shoot firearms much as I only go when my friends invite me shooting, but I have enjoyed using irons and it gave me perspective on the terrible struggle I had with my red dot when I used to play airsoft. It was a confusing experience because I had been a fine shot at paintball, which has no sights at all, but then with a decent airsoft gun with red dot it was a nightmare. Yes, I had red dot focus. I now shoot bows instinctively and I prefer to learn muscle memory and practice consistency to hit my target. I think it translates to firearms because when my buddy had me shoot his 22lr revolver, once I had a feel for it I couldn’t miss the bullseye. Red dots seem fun but even at close range I think someone with great experience with iron sights will do better than someone who is misusing their red dot. Thanks for reading my rambling lol.
Great answer! I only do airsoft. In my experience, red dot is fine for assault-rifles at slightly larger ranges than what we do with pistols. I do not use any red dot on my airsoft pistols. Iron sights is just fine. In fact, it is all about muscle memory, after lots of training. The iron sights are there as a reference point, but not to actually peek through them that much. It takes too much time anyway. I only have scopes on my airsoft DMRs (SR25 and Steyr AUG 0.50) as it makes sense there. My airsoft assaults have their iron sights and occasionally, an ACOG, if I feel like it. The red dots that I own, remain mostly in the closet if I go to a skirm.
@StarWarsSurvivalist the key word is superimpose, you want to superimpose the red dot on the target by focusing on the target only. Shooting with both eyes open helps this.
Consistency is hard. And I personally find it hard to treat every training and range session as 100% dialed in pew pew time. Sometimes I just want to pew for fun, give 75% of my output. A good goal is to make your 75% results your former 100% results.
I felt like I was nodding in agreement the whole video. Thank you for normalizing the struggle. I thought it was just me struggling not being 100% all the time. It’s good to know target focused is something that still has to be worked on/developed by high level shooters. It’s not a “place you arrive at”, it’s continuous development, or the progressive realization of the overall goal. Thanks Ben
Ben's comment on the referenced IG video/class, "occluding the dot doesn't force shit" hits like a hammer. Covering it can absolutely help, but eyes are still prone to 'focusing' at arms reach on the shiny thing. Definitely an ongoing awareness and accountability challenge, like all sorts of training disciplines.
I'm 66yo and got my first red dot. Ive been told this by several trainers and have been working hard with my dry fire at home to look thru the dot and find the target. My attitude is "you never stop training" and "you never are to proud to take good advice". I'm inching forward and making progress. Thank you to Ben, Chad Farner from North Shore Sports IL., and my buddy Mark , "fellow retired CPD and trainer" for all the good advice. My red dot work is starting to come together.
This is probably the single best lesson I learned from taking your class that really opened my eyes. My target transitions got so much faster that day by leading with my eyes to the next target and allowing the dot to follow. My biggest struggle today is not letting the dot over run where it's supposed to go on the target I'm transitioning to.
same here, that's how I learned how to shoot. I was completely lost for most of this video like "why don't you want to find the dot?" and then I was like oooo okay different kind of "finding" it
So funny, I was going to say shooting clays is the best way to become instinctive. That ends up translating to any kind of gun. I usually teach new clay shooters with a wood broom stick first to help them understand this concept.
This is awesome. Just got my first red dot for my 43x and never shot one before. Hopefully this helps me not pick up any bad habits with being dot focused. Thanks for the info
I'm considering a red dot, but I need to know if I understand the concept correctly. Is it correct that the goal is to focus on the target but for the brain to merge the red dot from the one eye looking through the optic onto the target, so it is almost as if you are looking at the target with a laser on the point where the shot will go?
Yes. Same as red dot use on a rifle. I shouldn't be surprised, but it seems like most people either haven't learned how to properly use a red dot on a rifle, or have never used one.
My slides are cut specifically for the RMR, which sits lower than if you’re using Glock MOS for example. My buddy was having trouble finding his dot with an RM01 on a G45 MOS, then shot my G19G5 Roland Special with an RM06 no problem. He ended up selling his G45. The fractions do make a difference if you’re having trouble. I have my red dot lollipopped on my Ameriglo GL429 suppressor height sights and never have a problem pressing out and the dot is right there where I want it. Happy shooting!
Ben, you hit the red dot on the Bullseye. I have been shooting a dot for about 18 months. I first was moving with the pistol and dot in focus. Then after some practice I started using the eyes to transition. Thanks for the great video.
I have used iron sights for over 45 years. I love them. I'm getting to where seeing them is a challenge. I have a Trijicon RMR on 1 pistol. I work with it often. You nailed it; NOT focusing on the dot is hard. I have a helluva time with it. I have to consciously and methodically remind myself. Additionally, despite nearly 5 decades of shooting, trigger control must always be on my mind. About the time I believe "It's just automatic anymore" the errant shots will begin! My dad was one of those 1 in 1 Million guys who could have castrated a gnat with a pistol combined with basic pointer finger alignment. It just "happened" with him. I'm not that guy. I have to practice. Great video!
I watched till the end. Did I miss the part where he explains how to use it correctly? Asking honestly. I understand sometimes it’s easy to go off explaining how it’s done wrong, and how so many people get it wrong, that you forget what you came here to say.
Dude thank you so much for this. It’s like driving a car/riding a bike. Look in the direction you want to go and turn to that direction instead of looking at ground and following the lines on the road. Use the dot in your peripheral vision so to speak but focus on the target.
It's just my opinion, but red dots are for rifles, NOT handguns. Unless you are into competitions, the main reason to own a handgun is as a last resort self-defense tool. God forbid, if you get into a gun fight you should be trained and proficient in "combat shooting" where you just point and shoot. Chances are if you try to aim with a red dot or otherwise you will lose the fight. I practice my handgun shooting from 3, 5, and 8 yards. I assume the combat position and fire in a 3 round burst. Straighten up, observe the grouping and repeat. Then I move the target to the next distance. Anyway, that's just my two cents. Each to his own!
Red dots on rifles shine because you have 3 points of contact and it’s very easy to get a repeatable precise sight picture. It would be very hard to not have you’re eye right behind the dot when using a rifle but on a pistol it’s kind of hard without a stock. It is doable with practice but I like the simplicity and repeatability of shooting irons target focused, with a big orange front sight it’s almost like having a dot that I can always see even without having proper eye-to-sight alignment. I do love red dots and I can’t wait for them to make them work better for pistols one day
99% of self defense shootings are barely going to have enough chance to aim with any sights, no matter what you have on the weapon.. these are point and shoot situations with extremely close proximity targets. Most self defense shootings are not even gun fights. If you're a cop or something, it makes sense for a duty weapon, but the average person doesn't need a red dot on a carry gun.
So true. Iron sights all of the way for edc. Red dots are great for controlled range like environments. I never understood the logic of a red dot on an edc. If you had the time and were shooting at that distance it doesn't seem like it would be a justifiable self defensive distance. I suppose the one situation that comes to mind is a mass sh**ter at a distance that would be all. And if you were really great with irons you could probably be pretty helpfully effective.
@@ericlopez2971Dickens did it at 40y in the mall, and it's because red dots are superior in every single way and more than durable enough these days. If your not into it, cool but if your bashing them, your wrong
@@ericlopez2971 I get all that but per your original comment; why have sights at all? If 99% of self defense scenarios are point shooting, citizens don't need sights period 🤨 Everything you stated falls in line with the clowns that don't think you need a light on your EDC either
Some of us younger guys who started on dots are closer to being true target focused. I can definitely see why a lot of guys who started on irons are always struggling not to focus on the dot. Especially since many were taught TO focus on the front sight.
Found your channel my accident a couple days back and have learned more in those couple days than I have in several years of trial and error and classes. Thank you for the great information and concise explanations!
I always said “I don’t need that shit” until I got into competitive shooting. After running some dots I saw the benefits. I now have a dot on everything I own. I’ve tested multiple budget friendly dots that were just as good as Holosun imo. Took me a long time to truly understand target focus. Occlusion definitely helped out. Some people just don’t want to learn a new way of shooting. If they truly understood the dot I don’t think anyone would still be running irons. And yeah in a defensive situation you might not get confirmation 2 before firing but you’d have the same thing with irons.
I see absolutely 0 advantage to a red dot for a defensive handgun when at most you're shooting like 25 yards. Vast majority of the time it's not even 7 yards.
I actually learned this at a young age using scoped rifles. If you look through the scope and then try to find the target it is very difficult in the woods. If you pinpoint your target and bring the scope to your eye without breaking concentration the target will be where you are lazer focused with your sight.
Hey, great video but I have a couple questions. First, the summary of yours seems to be, "be target focused, not red dot focused". Honestly, with that in mind, I THINK I've been training properly but as I began using red dots, I searched everywhere on how to properly use the dot and it seems that nobody actually gets into it. Like, what constitutes that your dot is on the target when any slight move of the head and it shifts. Do you want the dot dead center of the window? Is ANY dot on target considered good? I'm asking this because I want to know and feel like I've yet to use the dot properly. Thanks ahead.
I spent 10 years doing this wrong, and I did it for a few years of nearly daily dry fire. When you popularized this technique a few years back, the first time I taped the dot I wanted to throw my guns in a swamp. Now after some years of occlusion, I still want to throw guns in swamp when I stare at a taped dot, doing this right is simple but not easy.
I was curious so I got a red dot for a range gun to see if I would shoot better. I shoot about the same until my eyes get tired, then I shoot a little better with the red dot. I've been using open sights since 1967 so I prefer them on my carry guns & house gun.
I think I know why I like dots. I spent decades doing instinctive archery, which is all about muscle memory, and target focus, and trusting your subconscious to do "the math" for aiming. With a dot it feels very similar, just with the dot providing verification on the muscle memory.
About a year ago I bought my 1st RED DOT. A Leopold Delta Pro II with a 2.5 m.o.a. I have it on a Taurus GS3 Tactical with a 9 pot muzzle comp and suppressor height sights. The red dot and sights coexist. It took a long time for me to find the dot right away and then once I could then to find and hit a target at all let alone consistently. I have over 1500 rounds through it now and I am doing great with it and LOVE it. You are exactly right about finding the target and looking passed the dot focus while maintaining the dot sight. It took me a long time and I still don't know if I've done it right but, it's effective for me. I see my target, grip and present. At that point I can see the dot, the front sight and, the target all at once. At 21 and 30 feet I can dump 10 rounds now in under 4 seconds ( I know, not the quickest) with a 2 inch grouping on target. I think the coexistence of the dot and iron sights helped me a lot to not only be accurate but also to not only focus on the dot itself and look through the glass not at it!
Hi Ben, completely agreed with your video. When I first got into red dots over a decade ago I was a bit slow finding the dot. Then the moment of enlightenment came. Question for you though. Why no iron sights on your pistol? Demo purposes or do you run it that way?
Creating proper alignment in the event the rds goes down. I have had several occurrences where the dot went down and the irons were right there in place.
I just bought a S&W PERFORMANCE CENTER® M&P 9 SHIELD PLUS CRIMSON TRACE PORTED (sorry, with that name, cut and paste). It is my first time using a red dot, and I am already ready to remove it. There is one additional problem if you are middle-aged, or older, and wear glasses: I wear both regular glasses, and reading glasses (I have tried progressive lenses, and believe that they could even add to the problem I am discussing). Arm's length is right in the area I have trouble focusing on, so finding the dot is even more complicated.
About 1998, I switched to OPEN for a season and struggled with the dot.....A friend mentioned putting a paster on the front of my C-More. It worked! Our local SWAT guys at the County now train all day long AND qualify with a the dot covered......Good stuff!
I'm very good at trigger control. I worked on it for a few years before I finally felt comfortable saying that, even to myself. As for dots, I'm decent but the really fast transitions from steel to steel on the clock jack me up way more than it should. Being an old gas bag, I love dots now. They're extremely helpful for old eyes, but the points made here are well, on point. Cheers Ben...and please keep your dang finger off the trigger inside the dang house. That drives me nuts. Also, do you have a couch with a 6 foot auto lift in order to watch that TV? LOLOL
I took a Designated Marksman course when I was in the Army, and the first thing the instructor drilled into our heads was "don't bring your eyes to the sights, bring the sights to your eyes." Eventually it'll become muscle memory with your chosen weapon, and when you draw down, your eyes will find your sight picture faster and faster each time. I've found the same is true with min and micro pistol red dots.
Not to mention no more short sight radius issues on sub compacts. Irons are okay but dots are great. You have to train with them a lot, though. Dots are not a shortcut past training at all.
All good advice. I'm transitioning to red dots on my pistols at the moment as my eyes age and using varifocal specs means I struggle to see irons effectively, or have to have my head in a weird position to do so. The advantages of red dots are manifold, the ability to be target focused while shooting with both eyes open but still have a good clear aiming reference being the primary. But yes, Ben is right, getting that initial presentation correct while maintaining that focus and transitioning from one target to the next to re-present the pistol is HARD and requires lots of practice.
I like your style of coaching, you got a good positive vibe. I train shotgun shooters, skeet mainly. The hardest thing for most of my students is to disconnect their eyes from the barrel and focus on the target. Your computer mouse analogy is fantastic, Im gonna use it. I like to find my “gamers” in class to help with the same mindset of disconnecting their eyes from barrel to target , just like red dot to target. Keep doing you man!
I always tell people to look past the Red Dot and treat it like a laser. Keep your eyes on the target and move the dot to the Target. you don't look at your hood while you're driving your truck. Instead, you look down the road.
I always thought it was normal to look at the target and not the dot. Your peripheral vision overlays the dot onto whatever you're aiming at. You don't really want to look at or even actively through the glass. It makes shooting with both eyes open a whole lot easier in my experience.
I have a 2.5MOA dot on my SRO and really i use my iron sights as a reference to instantly find my dot if i ever lose it. but 9/10 times ill never lose my dot even from draw and transitions. For newer red dot guys tho iron sights and where your thumbs are pointing will be your best friend
I've been using one since around 2018. Started with a romeo pro/320 combo. Went back to a glock 19 rmr combo and a g34 w' holosun. I really wanna get my favorite carry gun (CZ-p01) milled for a rmr soon. Thank's for all the info......I'll admit openly it was a big transition from irons to a dot but I can go back and forth fairly well these days. Still learning and trying to target focus always and not slip....when you dot focus you miss at distance at least I do....when moving really bad. Good stuff.....thank you Sir.
My dot is a tool to correct and train my perception of natural aim. My dot taught me how loose and inaccurate I was pointing and aiming using irons. Now I pick up a pistol with dot or iron sights and I’m dead on pointing where my eye wants to be without losing focus of my target. I don’t really need to look at iron sights except for reference because my dot trained me to grip better and consistently. Consistency is key. My dot is on a Glock but training with it and only looking at the target has made me better with my 1911. In my opinion, people who dislike dots are trying to sight through the tiny glass window and see the bullseye or target through glas and through a red light. You can use a red dot with the window blacked out with tape if you are using both eyes and focusing on the target. I also learned that depending on the type of grip I use, I am subconsciously bringing my pistol to aim on either my right eye or left. And that’s where I was originally loosing the dot until I trained differently and learned how to correctly use the dot as a tool to make my hands and eyes work more consistently every time
Whenever I start missing shots, especially during a competition, I still have to consciously tell myself to slow down and do fundamentals right. 10 poppers in a row and then miss the biggest one 4 times...*slow down dude, get your fundamentals right*
I feel that. Being able to maintain the mental focus and physical fundamentals consistently throughout a shot string or stage is what separates the top performers. They stay in a flow state.
If you want to be good. If you want to be very very good... fix what you are telling yourself. Never EVER tell yourself to slow down. You don't win a match slowing down. Tell yourself that it's like you to break the shot as soon as it's time, at the right time, every time. Tell yourself to take the first correct shot. Visualize yourself doing that before a stage. Do not let your mind wander into visualizing all the mistakes you are worried about. You know what you are doing when you do that? You are practicing doing it WRONG in your mind. So NEVER tell yourself to "SLOW DOWN AND..." What you speak to yourself in your internal voice is absurdly powerful just like your outside voice.
@@advil000 Have you read "With Winning in Mind"? In training, I do something different by simulating bullet time with time compression and environmental stress while going TGT-to-TGT and flowing through fundamentals. That way when I throttle up, I've already done it before mentally. Chasing performance with a musical instrument like guitar, drums, or piano gives an unfair advantage as well. Keeps that relationship between coordinated, actively-firing synapses and attenuated twitchy muscle fibers alive and thriving.
i've been training too long without a dot to introduce one now. it makes no sense to me to introduce something new into something that i've spent so long trying to stay above average in. this is also why i've never changed my rifle or my handgun model either, i've used the same rifle and handgun since i was a teenager and i'm now 43. i want the absolute most familiarity and baked in muscle memory i can get with what i'm using. changes introduce a variable i don't need and i can't see a red dot giving me such an advantage that it'd be worth calibrating it into my now-aging mind and body.
The struggle for me is focusing on small spots on the target when transitioning between multiple targets quickly. I think its going to be my biggest focus for a little until it feels comfortable.
I got made fun of the other day for shooting with both eyes, or rather switching back-and-forth between my left and right eye, mind you both are still open during this. But yeah, I definitely appreciate this video, I think a lot of people need to see it with both eyes.
I don't really like projection based sights when you're using something as small as a pistol, it almost feels detrimental. I prefer something with good stock irons, but I will use an optic on something bigger. Doesn't matter to me though I've always loved shotguns for bird and clay shooting so I'm just used to the beads and irons.
Ben shooting red dots on rifles for 25 years, tried them in handguns and HATE them. However, I’ve been shooting iron sights on pistols for 40 years so I have a training “scar”, my personal opinion is red dots on pistols are always going to be personal preference and that’s OK.
Hey Ben, thanks for sharing all these videos. I was formally a competitive sporting clays shooter which was 100% target focused shooting. The first thing I always did with any new shotgun was to remove or shave the sights off so that didn't distract me. Now I'm getting into 2-gun shooting and trying to learn my way around shooting pistols fast. My question is, if we have a good index, and good target focus what's even the point of a red dot or sights, especially for the majority of shots that are inside 15 yds? I've watched a lot of your videos and I still haven't exactly figured out what role the dot actually plays in target focused shooting.
I watched this thinking this is me. I have been training to not be dot focused (dot covered), and be target focused. I agree, it is such a struggle to be target focused. I will get there. One day at a time. These type videos are a big help.
You are wrong about blooming a small dot. Blooming small MOA dots works very well for your eyes to pick up the red dot against any background in self defense situations. We are looking for center mass here, not bullseye's on paper targets. You're making the assumption that just mentioning acquisitioning the red dot means you are focused on it and not the target. In self defense, a red dot is made to enhance point shooting. Its a visual confirmation of your muscle memory. Somebody without good muscle memory will never master a red dot.
Something should be said about back up iron sights while learning how to use a red dot: while they can be useful for experienced shooters to align their sights, I’ve noticed that new shooters benefit from having just the dot and nothing else. Like you said, people focus on the dot and the iron sights can definitely be a training crutch. I have half a dozen pistols with red dots, most with back up iron sights for serious work, but I kept a couple of them “red dot only” for training purposes: 1- a Walther PPQ Q5 Match with a 507 Comp (the rear sight comes off completely to install the optic plate). Since it’s a competition gun, I don’t need a back up iron sight in a life or death situation. 2- a IWI Masada with a 507 ACSS Vulcan, a reticle perfect for beginners. Since the factory iron sights are too low to co-witness, I can’t “cheat” using them, forcing me to target focus first and presenting the dot second.
Ben speaks the Truth. -> This weekend I had "moments" of target focus. Running into position, get a spot, gun catches up, shoot first target THEN move the dot I've "found" onto the next target in that array. So I'm maybe 50/50... working to get better. 🙂.
Hey there Ben, love the content. Quick question, on the Holosun 407 C you can adjust it to an auto setting, it adjusts according to ambient light. Is this recommended or should I keep it at a set level? Once again, thank you for your great content.
Is the 407 adjustment aggressive? I have a 510 on my PCC and I can't use the auto indoors. I find it dims too low at times and then aggressively jumps to 100%.
When I saw the title of the video I was fairly certain where you were going with this. I have been dryfiring in prep for the Area 5 Steel Challenge match where I am shooting three guns with dots. I currently have three stages set up (my worst stages) and the number of times I stop myself and reshoot a string because I was not sure I was target focused is frustrating. My goal is to make GM by the end of the year.
That little bit of info was very helpful for me, thanks. Also, did you give a pair of safety glasses to a little guy at the pcc championship at Lucas oil years ago?
Dood the "blooming" is because he has astigmatism... It's not that he doesn't know how to use it, he needs etched reticles eg LPVO at 1x or prism dot or reticle optics. I feel like your are commenting as if he's a new shooter, but the reason he could not find it easy is bloom effect of strong astigmatism (old eyes, double vision).
Using a laser with it shows you the dot past the window and brakes the illusion and reminds you the window is the only place you can see the dot “projected” down range.
Great video! I was shooting really well the other day and it was all because I was focusing on the target instead of the dot. Other days I focus on the dot and I shoot like crap. I need to work on doing the former and stop doing the latter. Your videos are helping!
A red dot feels like regular aiming to me, just easier and faster. Maybe because I’ve been shooting half my life and shot many things. Btw, that’s not me saying I’m some expert or something lol, I think I’ve just learned to adapting to new things pretty quickly, and I find it fun, so it’s never infuriating to me. I am a fan of VR games too, and I play a lot of shooting games, so even when I’m not at the actual range, I can still practice aiming with different sights and stuff and working on target focus and stuff. It’s not 1 to 1, but some skills do translate on a very basic level. I enjoy those when we have bad weather Or there’s an ammo drought in my area. Not as fun as actually shooting, but it can still be useful to a degree. Even to practice the motion of drawing your gun and quickly getting on target. And the guns do have recoil, though you can’t physically feel it, so you do have to readjust and stuff lol plus it will help you focus in a simulated firefight, and you do get some adrenaline while playing and it always comes down to whoever is more knowledgeable about the platform their using, how fast they are, how quickly they can acquire/reacquire their target, and whos more accurate. It really helps you see what you need to work in in real life. It shows you if you’re going to panic and mag dump, if you can generally hit what you’re aiming at, etc. sorry about the rant, my point is, if you like video games and or have a vr headset, some tactical shooter games can help and they gave gun ranges in the games with all kinds of platforms, scopes, sights, etc, and you can learn alot that way. In some games you can completely disassemble the guns, it teaches you how to keep them clean and maintained to stay running, teaches you how to reassemble it, it’s crazy what you can do with a video game these days. But I’ll sit in a vr range and shoot different guns at different distances when I cant get to the actual range.
One thing nobody talks about is shooting with a red dot at different distances. That's the main thing I don't like about them on handguns. Depending on what distance you zero your dot. Shooting at shorter distances, your shots will be low. And they are high at longer distances. And I'm not talking about huge distance variations. I don't have that problem with my iron sights. I don't use a red dot on my handguns. Only on my AR15 and PCC's. I also think they are worthless on EDC handguns.
My story. For once talking the facts about Red-Dots. Besides, on a carry platform, they can be unruly, get caught on your cover, or require only two-hands to acquire the dot on a target. If your hunting for a dot and your not target focus it is not an Option. Smooth and practiced weapon presentation is a must, but try that Off-hand with strong or weak (as behind a shield) as you have no barrel reference to your point, obscured by that large object on the top of your platform. Draw from your cover with only one hand to clear your platform either standing or sitting and then present. You see all these competition shooting tournaments, why don’t they include OFF-HAND in the timed course of fire? As a defensive ‘defender’, in the real world, you are behind from the very start by LAW. So with your ranged Red-Dot do some true tactical assessments at home as what you might or could encounter, and not just range target practicing. I had two platforms with Red-Dots, they were carry platforms, and yes I truly loved them on the range and distance targets as well. I have a very good Master Grip and my adjustment to them was very easy. I LOVED THEM. Then I sat back on realized, after self evaluation of them and me that I decided to remove them as I’m much more capable with my Irons and my LASER.
Stigmatism prevents me from using red dots. I have to use a trijicon acog TA11 instead. Holographic sights are very fuzzy as well. The Eotech is one example. I also believe iron sights are much better and more effective on pistols. People are now becoming unfamiliar with iron sights. So the gun either wont have them or if the red dot goes down they won't know how to use iron sights.
Oh I understand a dot. It's just ridiculous that you have to think about your distance and a hold over in order to hit your point of aim. Iron sights don't lie. People just want every little chest code advantage they can get to mask their inability to fundamentally shoot well.
Been shooting for over a year now, started off the rip with a RDS. Did what you talked about, focusing on the dot on accident. Thru more dry fire I figured it out. I was laser focused on a small object and just presented… didn’t really notice the optic bezels… or the pew…. Or even my hands and the concept “clicked”. I still catch myself wanting to focus on the dot sometimes, however shooting occluded and doing small transitions while conscience about “eyes first THEN head and hands” helps.
Personally I found that I couldn't find the red dot, quickly enough, in a pressure situation, compared to bringing irons to bare. Subsequently, I couldn't aim accurately in a hurry, compared to irons. Very satisfying for range shooting and drills, not so good in a fast, instinctive life or death situation. Again, very good if you have time and are in the situation to draw and acquire the reticule, like you do at the range but not so good all round. And I was always worried the batery might go flat.😂
Wasn't the question just about red dot acquisition, regardless of whether the guy is sight focus or target focus? Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but if you can't "acquire" the dot, doesn't really matter whether you're sight or target focus, so bigger "dot" is easier to "find" as in you're more aware it's off to the left or right
We understand them, we just don’t think it’s 400$ worth! Optics are for rifles
This is really interesting to me. You really think it’s cost that people don’t have optics on pistols? That maybe right I guess I’m really not sure.
Pin of shame.
Who is We?
@@BenStoeger187 cost is a huge factor for me! At self defense distances a dot is useless!
this has been debunked over and over and over, "defense distance" people still aim, having a red dot makes aiming at those close distances FASTER. stop being an old geezer, tons of real life examples out there especially of police using their firearms, they have dots, you still aim..."defense distance" doesnt mean you dont fking aim, thats the dumbest shit ive heard because if thats how you are TRAINING then you are WRONG. also cost is NOT a factor, you can easily get extremely solid affordable dots for around 150-200 bucks for your carry gun, stop acting like dots cost just as much if not more than your pistol. i started out thinking red dots were a gimmick but as soon as i shot one and then trained on it it is 100% faster than irons. stop perpetuating this myth that just because a self defense situation happens at a close range it just means you dont fucking aim your weapon, that shit is stupid and not true.
@@thedirtygot9570
Listen here, highspeed. I didn't survive 12 tours at the Golden Corral Endless Buffet for you to flag me with your barrel through the screen like that.
Golden Corral huh... Little Rock? iykyk
@@NethezbetWe lost a lot of good men that day.
@@masterofreality230 Their sacrifice won't be forgotten.
Thank you for your service
Dude I came to the comments to say the same thing hahaha
One of the best things I heard in an older video of yours about “finding the red dot” was comparing it to a mouse on a computer. You don’t look for the cursor on the screen then move it, you look on the screen where you want to click and move the cursor to that point.
Or when you throw a baseball, football, softball -- do you watch your throwing hand the entire time? Do you watch it at all?
Then why do differently with pistol and RDS?
That video came to mind for me too. Thought it was a great explanation.
amazing tip, i was having trouble on finding the dot on draw but now i can find it almost instantly
This is fucking legend advice!
This is some solid advice!
We took a shot every time you said "The Vast Majority of People" and now the vast majority of us are drunk AF... LOL!
Given the context, I thought at first you were referring to the range, not alcohol.
When he said Vast, vast, vast majority did you have to triple chug?
As someone that has shot irons forever, I recently decided to go with an optic. And yes, some of that reason is because of my aging eyes. But mostly I just wanted to see what it was about. I always said that I target focused with my irons. And I did, but I would also shift my focus during a string of fire occasionally to the sights for realignment. After many many hours of practice and hundreds of draws I decided to take my new optic on my pistol to class. I had no problem “finding my dot” at all upon presentation, but if I lost it during a string of fire I would shift my focus to the optic to “find the dot”. My instructor who is a really cool older retired Marine was watching me knowing it was my first class with the optic. As soon as I “looked for the dot”, he would run right up beside me and in his best Gunny Sergeant Hartman impression screamed right at the side of my face. “I can see your damn eyes shifting focus! Look at the damn target!? Why are you looking at your damn gun!? You’re holding your gun! You know where the hell it is, so stop looking at it! Look at the threat that’s trying to kill you! You’re not holding the enemy. He might move on you and you need to know where he is! So look at the damn target and not your damn gun!!” I yelled “Sir! Yes sir!” Then we had a good laugh. The thing is, you think you’re target focused. But you’d be surprised at how much you’re really not. Especially with a dot.
Red dots also show proof that you pulled the shot too since the dot will Twitch over and show you your point of impact as a result of bad trigger pull
@@jason200912 Absolutely. Great point. I could instantly tell as soon as I pulled the trigger if I moved the muzzle. It made it a lot easier to “call my shots” after the shot and know where it went before even seeing point of impact. Which is awesome for fixing any problems with your fundamentals. I could kind of do that with irons, but nowhere near as good or accurately with the dot.
Aww good trainer! I don’t shoot firearms much as I only go when my friends invite me shooting, but I have enjoyed using irons and it gave me perspective on the terrible struggle I had with my red dot when I used to play airsoft. It was a confusing experience because I had been a fine shot at paintball, which has no sights at all, but then with a decent airsoft gun with red dot it was a nightmare. Yes, I had red dot focus. I now shoot bows instinctively and I prefer to learn muscle memory and practice consistency to hit my target. I think it translates to firearms because when my buddy had me shoot his 22lr revolver, once I had a feel for it I couldn’t miss the bullseye. Red dots seem fun but even at close range I think someone with great experience with iron sights will do better than someone who is misusing their red dot. Thanks for reading my rambling lol.
That’s some good fun training my man!
Great answer! I only do airsoft. In my experience, red dot is fine for assault-rifles at slightly larger ranges than what we do with pistols. I do not use any red dot on my airsoft pistols. Iron sights is just fine. In fact, it is all about muscle memory, after lots of training. The iron sights are there as a reference point, but not to actually peek through them that much. It takes too much time anyway. I only have scopes on my airsoft DMRs (SR25 and Steyr AUG 0.50) as it makes sense there. My airsoft assaults have their iron sights and occasionally, an ACOG, if I feel like it. The red dots that I own, remain mostly in the closet if I go to a skirm.
To make a long story short, focus on the target and not the dot...you're welcome
I hear you, but then what is the point of having a RDS on your pistol to begin with? That is what is confusing me?
@StarWarsSurvivalist the key word is superimpose, you want to superimpose the red dot on the target by focusing on the target only. Shooting with both eyes open helps this.
The hero we needed
Man should be giving a masterclass on rambling..
Nice 😂!
Some days I'm absolutely locked in and other days I wonder how I suck so bad while practicing so much.
Consistency is hard. And I personally find it hard to treat every training and range session as 100% dialed in pew pew time. Sometimes I just want to pew for fun, give 75% of my output. A good goal is to make your 75% results your former 100% results.
Take some classes
Me.
My problem is I train with too many platforms lol.
@Catgat37 why?
I felt like I was nodding in agreement the whole video.
Thank you for normalizing the struggle. I thought it was just me struggling not being 100% all the time. It’s good to know target focused is something that still has to be worked on/developed by high level shooters. It’s not a “place you arrive at”, it’s continuous development, or the progressive realization of the overall goal.
Thanks Ben
Good golfers know the swing, grip, stance always are works in progress, good shooters know the same on fundamentals.
Target focus is easy for me, it's focusing on one tiny spot on the target that's illusive.
Agreed - I see it all the time on other folks and sometimes see myself doing it when editing my reviews.
Ben's comment on the referenced IG video/class, "occluding the dot doesn't force shit" hits like a hammer. Covering it can absolutely help, but eyes are still prone to 'focusing' at arms reach on the shiny thing. Definitely an ongoing awareness and accountability challenge, like all sorts of training disciplines.
Basically it has to "be in the way" between eye and target, without focusing on the dot itself, where it is, etc.
I'm 66yo and got my first red dot. Ive been told this by several trainers and have been working hard with my dry fire at home to look thru the dot and find the target. My attitude is "you never stop training" and "you never are to proud to take good advice". I'm inching forward and making progress. Thank you to Ben, Chad Farner from North Shore Sports IL., and my buddy Mark , "fellow retired CPD and trainer" for all the good advice. My red dot work is starting to come together.
I have been working on mastering the red dot with both eyes closed.
Now thats the real handgun mastery 🤣
🤣
This is probably the single best lesson I learned from taking your class that really opened my eyes. My target transitions got so much faster that day by leading with my eyes to the next target and allowing the dot to follow. My biggest struggle today is not letting the dot over run where it's supposed to go on the target I'm transitioning to.
Ben, you’re on a roll with these last several vids. Thank you, Sir! 🫡
Yeah, he should roll his ass to skeezerville!
As a long time sporting clay shooter, I think that trains you to look at the target instead of the gun.
Agree 100%, moving targets require complete invisible gun technique
same here, that's how I learned how to shoot. I was completely lost for most of this video like "why don't you want to find the dot?" and then I was like oooo okay different kind of "finding" it
So funny, I was going to say shooting clays is the best way to become instinctive.
That ends up translating to any kind of gun. I usually teach new clay shooters with a wood broom stick first to help them understand this concept.
@@callin4_reign878 nice! if you really wanna teach someone to pick up a target, 5 stand will humble you quickly
This is awesome. Just got my first red dot for my 43x and never shot one before. Hopefully this helps me not pick up any bad habits with being dot focused. Thanks for the info
Wow. This makes so much sense and thanks for putting in this way and so it will always be an ongoing process...
I'm considering a red dot, but I need to know if I understand the concept correctly. Is it correct that the goal is to focus on the target but for the brain to merge the red dot from the one eye looking through the optic onto the target, so it is almost as if you are looking at the target with a laser on the point where the shot will go?
Yes. Same as red dot use on a rifle.
I shouldn't be surprised, but it seems like most people either haven't learned how to properly use a red dot on a rifle, or have never used one.
Thanks for these tips. I just got my first dot yesterday (2/25/24). I got a class next Saturday to start understanding how to use a dot. 👍
My slides are cut specifically for the RMR, which sits lower than if you’re using Glock MOS for example. My buddy was having trouble finding his dot with an RM01 on a G45 MOS, then shot my G19G5 Roland Special with an RM06 no problem. He ended up selling his G45. The fractions do make a difference if you’re having trouble. I have my red dot lollipopped on my Ameriglo GL429 suppressor height sights and never have a problem pressing out and the dot is right there where I want it. Happy shooting!
Well I'll be!
All you needed to say is "Look past the dot at your target instead of looking at the dot."
There I saved you guys nearly 7 minutes.
Ben, you hit the red dot on the Bullseye. I have been shooting a dot for about 18 months. I first was moving with the pistol and dot in focus. Then after some practice I started using the eyes to transition. Thanks for the great video.
I have used iron sights for over 45 years. I love them. I'm getting to where seeing them is a challenge. I have a Trijicon RMR on 1 pistol. I work with it often. You nailed it; NOT focusing on the dot is hard. I have a helluva time with it. I have to consciously and methodically remind myself. Additionally, despite nearly 5 decades of shooting, trigger control must always be on my mind. About the time I believe "It's just automatic anymore" the errant shots will begin! My dad was one of those 1 in 1 Million guys who could have castrated a gnat with a pistol combined with basic pointer finger alignment. It just "happened" with him. I'm not that guy. I have to practice. Great video!
I watched till the end. Did I miss the part where he explains how to use it correctly? Asking honestly. I understand sometimes it’s easy to go off explaining how it’s done wrong, and how so many people get it wrong, that you forget what you came here to say.
Agreed.
He used the term "target-focused" many times. To me, that was self-explanatory...look at the TARGET, not the dot
Dude thank you so much for this. It’s like driving a car/riding a bike. Look in the direction you want to go and turn to that direction instead of looking at ground and following the lines on the road. Use the dot in your peripheral vision so to speak but focus on the target.
It's just my opinion, but red dots are for rifles, NOT handguns. Unless you are into competitions, the main reason to own a handgun is as a last resort self-defense tool. God forbid, if you get into a gun fight you should be trained and proficient in "combat shooting" where you just point and shoot. Chances are if you try to aim with a red dot or otherwise you will lose the fight. I practice my handgun shooting from 3, 5, and 8 yards. I assume the combat position and fire in a 3 round burst. Straighten up, observe the grouping and repeat. Then I move the target to the next distance. Anyway, that's just my two cents. Each to his own!
Never verifying clear. And then pointing it right at me with your finger on the trigger! Whoa buddy! Lol not in my house.
It’s ok to kill a camera.
I’ve noticed after a good stage, that I didn’t even notice the dot. And the complete opposite after a bad run.
Red dots on rifles shine because you have 3 points of contact and it’s very easy to get a repeatable precise sight picture. It would be very hard to not have you’re eye right behind the dot when using a rifle but on a pistol it’s kind of hard without a stock. It is doable with practice but I like the simplicity and repeatability of shooting irons target focused, with a big orange front sight it’s almost like having a dot that I can always see even without having proper eye-to-sight alignment. I do love red dots and I can’t wait for them to make them work better for pistols one day
Needed to hear this today. And actually answered some questions I've been asking myself
99% of self defense shootings are barely going to have enough chance to aim with any sights, no matter what you have on the weapon.. these are point and shoot situations with extremely close proximity targets. Most self defense shootings are not even gun fights. If you're a cop or something, it makes sense for a duty weapon, but the average person doesn't need a red dot on a carry gun.
So true. Iron sights all of the way for edc. Red dots are great for controlled range like environments. I never understood the logic of a red dot on an edc. If you had the time and were shooting at that distance it doesn't seem like it would be a justifiable self defensive distance. I suppose the one situation that comes to mind is a mass sh**ter at a distance that would be all. And if you were really great with irons you could probably be pretty helpfully effective.
regardless, people can put what they want on their guns, most especially if they train and are efficient with it
@@ericlopez2971Dickens did it at 40y in the mall, and it's because red dots are superior in every single way and more than durable enough these days. If your not into it, cool but if your bashing them, your wrong
@@ericlopez2971 I get all that but per your original comment; why have sights at all? If 99% of self defense scenarios are point shooting, citizens don't need sights period 🤨 Everything you stated falls in line with the clowns that don't think you need a light on your EDC either
@@torranceparsons5216 That wasn't my comment it was Desktorp's.
Some of us younger guys who started on dots are closer to being true target focused. I can definitely see why a lot of guys who started on irons are always struggling not to focus on the dot. Especially since many were taught TO focus on the front sight.
Found your channel my accident a couple days back and have learned more in those couple days than I have in several years of trial and error and classes. Thank you for the great information and concise explanations!
I always said “I don’t need that shit” until I got into competitive shooting. After running some dots I saw the benefits. I now have a dot on everything I own. I’ve tested multiple budget friendly dots that were just as good as Holosun imo. Took me a long time to truly understand target focus. Occlusion definitely helped out. Some people just don’t want to learn a new way of shooting. If they truly understood the dot I don’t think anyone would still be running irons. And yeah in a defensive situation you might not get confirmation 2 before firing but you’d have the same thing with irons.
I see absolutely 0 advantage to a red dot for a defensive handgun when at most you're shooting like 25 yards. Vast majority of the time it's not even 7 yards.
I actually learned this at a young age using scoped rifles. If you look through the scope and then try to find the target it is very difficult in the woods. If you pinpoint your target and bring the scope to your eye without breaking concentration the target will be where you are lazer focused with your sight.
Point Shooting skill cannot be overestimated. It helps with any kind of sight or shooting.
TH-cam made me watch a foot deodorant commercial before it would let me watch this video. I’m glad the content of the video was worth it. 😂😂😂
Opera browser.
Turn on the Ad block.
Works like a charm.
Hope your toes are still there
Dudes saying red dots are useless on handguns are lowkey making the argument that handguns don’t need sights at all.
Hey, great video but I have a couple questions. First, the summary of yours seems to be, "be target focused, not red dot focused". Honestly, with that in mind, I THINK I've been training properly but as I began using red dots, I searched everywhere on how to properly use the dot and it seems that nobody actually gets into it. Like, what constitutes that your dot is on the target when any slight move of the head and it shifts. Do you want the dot dead center of the window? Is ANY dot on target considered good? I'm asking this because I want to know and feel like I've yet to use the dot properly. Thanks ahead.
Cool I can work up a video
Thanks!
Excellent video. Truth.
I spent 10 years doing this wrong, and I did it for a few years of nearly daily dry fire. When you popularized this technique a few years back, the first time I taped the dot I wanted to throw my guns in a swamp. Now after some years of occlusion, I still want to throw guns in swamp when I stare at a taped dot, doing this right is simple but not easy.
Very similar to shooting a basketball, throwing a baseball or football. Acquire your target and your body will get whatever it is to it.
I was curious so I got a red dot for a range gun to see if I would shoot better. I shoot about the same until my eyes get tired, then I shoot a little better with the red dot. I've been using open sights since 1967 so I prefer them on my carry guns & house gun.
Fantastic info and truth speaking. It's a constant struggle and always will be.
I think I know why I like dots. I spent decades doing instinctive archery, which is all about muscle memory, and target focus, and trusting your subconscious to do "the math" for aiming. With a dot it feels very similar, just with the dot providing verification on the muscle memory.
About a year ago I bought my 1st RED DOT. A Leopold Delta Pro II with a 2.5 m.o.a. I have it on a Taurus GS3 Tactical with a 9 pot muzzle comp and suppressor height sights. The red dot and sights coexist.
It took a long time for me to find the dot right away and then once I could then to find and hit a target at all let alone consistently.
I have over 1500 rounds through it now and I am doing great with it and LOVE it.
You are exactly right about finding the target and looking passed the dot focus while maintaining the dot sight. It took me a long time and I still don't know if I've done it right but, it's effective for me. I see my target, grip and present. At that point I can see the dot, the front sight and, the target all at once.
At 21 and 30 feet I can dump 10 rounds now in under 4 seconds ( I know, not the quickest) with a 2 inch grouping on target.
I think the coexistence of the dot and iron sights helped me a lot to not only be accurate but also to not only focus on the dot itself and look through the glass not at it!
The Red Dot should be mounted near the front sight. This should solve all these problems of finding the red dot.
A good analogy would be, when steering your car around, you do not look at the steering wheel, you look at the road and your hands follow.
Hi Ben, completely agreed with your video. When I first got into red dots over a decade ago I was a bit slow finding the dot. Then the moment of enlightenment came. Question for you though. Why no iron sights on your pistol? Demo purposes or do you run it that way?
What would the irons be for?
Creating proper alignment in the event the rds goes down. I have had several occurrences where the dot went down and the irons were right there in place.
Long range target shooters don't care if the target is in focus, they care if the front sight is in focus...and I'm not "just saying".
I just bought a S&W PERFORMANCE CENTER® M&P 9 SHIELD PLUS CRIMSON TRACE PORTED (sorry, with that name, cut and paste). It is my first time using a red dot, and I am already ready to remove it. There is one additional problem if you are middle-aged, or older, and wear glasses: I wear both regular glasses, and reading glasses (I have tried progressive lenses, and believe that they could even add to the problem I am discussing). Arm's length is right in the area I have trouble focusing on, so finding the dot is even more complicated.
HITTING YOUR TARGET CONSISTENTLY ....IS IMPERATIVE....NOTHING ELSE MATTERS
About 1998, I switched to OPEN for a season and struggled with the dot.....A friend mentioned putting a paster on the front of my C-More. It worked! Our local SWAT guys at the County now train all day long AND qualify with a the dot covered......Good stuff!
I'm very good at trigger control. I worked on it for a few years before I finally felt comfortable saying that, even to myself. As for dots, I'm decent but the really fast transitions from steel to steel on the clock jack me up way more than it should. Being an old gas bag, I love dots now. They're extremely helpful for old eyes, but the points made here are well, on point. Cheers Ben...and please keep your dang finger off the trigger inside the dang house. That drives me nuts. Also, do you have a couch with a 6 foot auto lift in order to watch that TV? LOLOL
I took a Designated Marksman course when I was in the Army, and the first thing the instructor drilled into our heads was "don't bring your eyes to the sights, bring the sights to your eyes." Eventually it'll become muscle memory with your chosen weapon, and when you draw down, your eyes will find your sight picture faster and faster each time.
I've found the same is true with min and micro pistol red dots.
Not to mention no more short sight radius issues on sub compacts. Irons are okay but dots are great. You have to train with them a lot, though. Dots are not a shortcut past training at all.
All good advice. I'm transitioning to red dots on my pistols at the moment as my eyes age and using varifocal specs means I struggle to see irons effectively, or have to have my head in a weird position to do so. The advantages of red dots are manifold, the ability to be target focused while shooting with both eyes open but still have a good clear aiming reference being the primary. But yes, Ben is right, getting that initial presentation correct while maintaining that focus and transitioning from one target to the next to re-present the pistol is HARD and requires lots of practice.
Not using a Red Dot gave me Erectile Dysfunction.
My guy, you’re in luck, switching to red dot cures it.
a blue dot will get you back in business!! LOL
I like your style of coaching, you got a good positive vibe. I train shotgun shooters, skeet mainly. The hardest thing for most of my students is to disconnect their eyes from the barrel and focus on the target. Your computer mouse analogy is fantastic, Im gonna use it. I like to find my “gamers” in class to help with the same mindset of disconnecting their eyes from barrel to target , just like red dot to target. Keep doing you man!
It can be a tough transition after using iron sights for so many years and being taught to focus on the front sight.
This is another reason why I advise people to NEVER "first learn irons, then move to a dot".
I always tell people to look past the Red Dot and treat it like a laser. Keep your eyes on the target and move the dot to the Target. you don't look at your hood while you're driving your truck. Instead, you look down the road.
I always thought it was normal to look at the target and not the dot. Your peripheral vision overlays the dot onto whatever you're aiming at. You don't really want to look at or even actively through the glass. It makes shooting with both eyes open a whole lot easier in my experience.
I have a 2.5MOA dot on my SRO and really i use my iron sights as a reference to instantly find my dot if i ever lose it. but 9/10 times ill never lose my dot even from draw and transitions. For newer red dot guys tho iron sights and where your thumbs are pointing will be your best friend
When I got my first RDS I did probably a thousand draws till I got used to finding the dot. There's definitely a transition.
I've been using one since around 2018. Started with a romeo pro/320 combo. Went back to a glock 19 rmr combo and a g34 w' holosun. I really wanna get my favorite carry gun (CZ-p01) milled for a rmr soon. Thank's for all the info......I'll admit openly it was a big transition from irons to a dot but I can go back and forth fairly well these days. Still learning and trying to target focus always and not slip....when you dot focus you miss at distance at least I do....when moving really bad. Good stuff.....thank you Sir.
My dot is a tool to correct and train my perception of natural aim. My dot taught me how loose and inaccurate I was pointing and aiming using irons. Now I pick up a pistol with dot or iron sights and I’m dead on pointing where my eye wants to be without losing focus of my target. I don’t really need to look at iron sights except for reference because my dot trained me to grip better and consistently. Consistency is key. My dot is on a Glock but training with it and only looking at the target has made me better with my 1911. In my opinion, people who dislike dots are trying to sight through the tiny glass window and see the bullseye or target through glas and through a red light. You can use a red dot with the window blacked out with tape if you are using both eyes and focusing on the target. I also learned that depending on the type of grip I use, I am subconsciously bringing my pistol to aim on either my right eye or left. And that’s where I was originally loosing the dot until I trained differently and learned how to correctly use the dot as a tool to make my hands and eyes work more consistently every time
Whenever I start missing shots, especially during a competition, I still have to consciously tell myself to slow down and do fundamentals right. 10 poppers in a row and then miss the biggest one 4 times...*slow down dude, get your fundamentals right*
I feel that. Being able to maintain the mental focus and physical fundamentals consistently throughout a shot string or stage is what separates the top performers. They stay in a flow state.
If you want to be good. If you want to be very very good... fix what you are telling yourself. Never EVER tell yourself to slow down. You don't win a match slowing down. Tell yourself that it's like you to break the shot as soon as it's time, at the right time, every time. Tell yourself to take the first correct shot. Visualize yourself doing that before a stage. Do not let your mind wander into visualizing all the mistakes you are worried about. You know what you are doing when you do that? You are practicing doing it WRONG in your mind. So NEVER tell yourself to "SLOW DOWN AND..." What you speak to yourself in your internal voice is absurdly powerful just like your outside voice.
@@advil000 Have you read "With Winning in Mind"? In training, I do something different by simulating bullet time with time compression and environmental stress while going TGT-to-TGT and flowing through fundamentals. That way when I throttle up, I've already done it before mentally. Chasing performance with a musical instrument like guitar, drums, or piano gives an unfair advantage as well.
Keeps that relationship between coordinated, actively-firing synapses and attenuated twitchy muscle fibers alive and thriving.
i've been training too long without a dot to introduce one now. it makes no sense to me to introduce something new into something that i've spent so long trying to stay above average in. this is also why i've never changed my rifle or my handgun model either, i've used the same rifle and handgun since i was a teenager and i'm now 43. i want the absolute most familiarity and baked in muscle memory i can get with what i'm using. changes introduce a variable i don't need and i can't see a red dot giving me such an advantage that it'd be worth calibrating it into my now-aging mind and body.
Nice dose of brutal honesty for us mere mortal shooters.
Thanks again for providing free quality content Ben!
The struggle for me is focusing on small spots on the target when transitioning between multiple targets quickly. I think its going to be my biggest focus for a little until it feels comfortable.
Same. Same. Especially on steel.
I got made fun of the other day for shooting with both eyes, or rather switching back-and-forth between my left and right eye, mind you both are still open during this. But yeah, I definitely appreciate this video, I think a lot of people need to see it with both eyes.
I don't really like projection based sights when you're using something as small as a pistol, it almost feels detrimental. I prefer something with good stock irons, but I will use an optic on something bigger. Doesn't matter to me though I've always loved shotguns for bird and clay shooting so I'm just used to the beads and irons.
Kinda silly on pistols especially for self defense. Point shooting skill is #1.
Ben shooting red dots on rifles for 25 years, tried them in handguns and HATE them. However, I’ve been shooting iron sights on pistols for 40 years so I have a training “scar”, my personal opinion is red dots on pistols are always going to be personal preference and that’s OK.
Hey Ben, thanks for sharing all these videos. I was formally a competitive sporting clays shooter which was 100% target focused shooting. The first thing I always did with any new shotgun was to remove or shave the sights off so that didn't distract me. Now I'm getting into 2-gun shooting and trying to learn my way around shooting pistols fast. My question is, if we have a good index, and good target focus what's even the point of a red dot or sights, especially for the majority of shots that are inside 15 yds? I've watched a lot of your videos and I still haven't exactly figured out what role the dot actually plays in target focused shooting.
I watched this thinking this is me. I have been training to not be dot focused (dot covered), and be target focused. I agree, it is such a struggle to be target focused. I will get there. One day at a time. These type videos are a big help.
Excellent. After years of shooting irons, the dots certainly have a learning curve. Thanks.
Fuck I hate this guy, but he's so consistently right about virtually everything and he's good at explaining it.
You are wrong about blooming a small dot. Blooming small MOA dots works very well for your eyes to pick up the red dot against any background in self defense situations. We are looking for center mass here, not bullseye's on paper targets. You're making the assumption that just mentioning acquisitioning the red dot means you are focused on it and not the target. In self defense, a red dot is made to enhance point shooting. Its a visual confirmation of your muscle memory. Somebody without good muscle memory will never master a red dot.
Something should be said about back up iron sights while learning how to use a red dot: while they can be useful for experienced shooters to align their sights, I’ve noticed that new shooters benefit from having just the dot and nothing else. Like you said, people focus on the dot and the iron sights can definitely be a training crutch.
I have half a dozen pistols with red dots, most with back up iron sights for serious work, but I kept a couple of them “red dot only” for training purposes:
1- a Walther PPQ Q5 Match with a 507 Comp (the rear sight comes off completely to install the optic plate). Since it’s a competition gun, I don’t need a back up iron sight in a life or death situation.
2- a IWI Masada with a 507 ACSS Vulcan, a reticle perfect for beginners. Since the factory iron sights are too low to co-witness, I can’t “cheat” using them, forcing me to target focus first and presenting the dot second.
Watched this video while my first red dot is on the way, thanks for the tip man I'm glad I can work to squash a bad habit before it forms
Ben speaks the Truth. -> This weekend I had "moments" of target focus. Running into position, get a spot, gun catches up, shoot first target THEN move the dot I've "found" onto the next target in that array. So I'm maybe 50/50... working to get better. 🙂.
Hey there Ben, love the content. Quick question, on the Holosun 407 C you can adjust it to an auto setting, it adjusts according to ambient light. Is this recommended or should I keep it at a set level? Once again, thank you for your great content.
Is the 407 adjustment aggressive? I have a 510 on my PCC and I can't use the auto indoors. I find it dims too low at times and then aggressively jumps to 100%.
Our agency has transitioned to red dots. Everyone shoots faster and more accurate now.
When I saw the title of the video I was fairly certain where you were going with this. I have been dryfiring in prep for the Area 5 Steel Challenge match where I am shooting three guns with dots. I currently have three stages set up (my worst stages) and the number of times I stop myself and reshoot a string because I was not sure I was target focused is frustrating. My goal is to make GM by the end of the year.
That little bit of info was very helpful for me, thanks.
Also, did you give a pair of safety glasses to a little guy at the pcc championship at Lucas oil years ago?
Dood the "blooming" is because he has astigmatism... It's not that he doesn't know how to use it, he needs etched reticles eg LPVO at 1x or prism dot or reticle optics. I feel like your are commenting as if he's a new shooter, but the reason he could not find it easy is bloom effect of strong astigmatism (old eyes, double vision).
Using a laser with it shows you the dot past the window and brakes the illusion and reminds you the window is the only place you can see the dot “projected” down range.
Great video! I was shooting really well the other day and it was all because I was focusing on the target instead of the dot. Other days I focus on the dot and I shoot like crap. I need to work on doing the former and stop doing the latter. Your videos are helping!
A red dot feels like regular aiming to me, just easier and faster. Maybe because I’ve been shooting half my life and shot many things. Btw, that’s not me saying I’m some expert or something lol, I think I’ve just learned to adapting to new things pretty quickly, and I find it fun, so it’s never infuriating to me. I am a fan of VR games too, and I play a lot of shooting games, so even when I’m not at the actual range, I can still practice aiming with different sights and stuff and working on target focus and stuff. It’s not 1 to 1, but some skills do translate on a very basic level. I enjoy those when we have bad weather Or there’s an ammo drought in my area. Not as fun as actually shooting, but it can still be useful to a degree. Even to practice the motion of drawing your gun and quickly getting on target. And the guns do have recoil, though you can’t physically feel it, so you do have to readjust and stuff lol plus it will help you focus in a simulated firefight, and you do get some adrenaline while playing and it always comes down to whoever is more knowledgeable about the platform their using, how fast they are, how quickly they can acquire/reacquire their target, and whos more accurate. It really helps you see what you need to work in in real life. It shows you if you’re going to panic and mag dump, if you can generally hit what you’re aiming at, etc. sorry about the rant, my point is, if you like video games and or have a vr headset, some tactical shooter games can help and they gave gun ranges in the games with all kinds of platforms, scopes, sights, etc, and you can learn alot that way. In some games you can completely disassemble the guns, it teaches you how to keep them clean and maintained to stay running, teaches you how to reassemble it, it’s crazy what you can do with a video game these days. But I’ll sit in a vr range and shoot different guns at different distances when I cant get to the actual range.
One thing nobody talks about is shooting with a red dot at different distances. That's the main thing I don't like about them on handguns. Depending on what distance you zero your dot. Shooting at shorter distances, your shots will be low. And they are high at longer distances. And I'm not talking about huge distance variations. I don't have that problem with my iron sights. I don't use a red dot on my handguns. Only on my AR15 and PCC's. I also think they are worthless on EDC handguns.
Blackout the front of the red dot with some tape and train that way until you consistently target focus
My story. For once talking the facts about Red-Dots. Besides, on a carry platform, they can be unruly, get caught on your cover, or require only two-hands to acquire the dot on a target. If your hunting for a dot and your not target focus it is not an Option. Smooth and practiced weapon presentation is a must, but try that Off-hand with strong or weak (as behind a shield) as you have no barrel reference to your point, obscured by that large object on the top of your platform. Draw from your cover with only one hand to clear your platform either standing or sitting and then present. You see all these competition shooting tournaments, why don’t they include OFF-HAND in the timed course of fire? As a defensive ‘defender’, in the real world, you are behind from the very start by LAW. So with your ranged Red-Dot do some true tactical assessments at home as what you might or could encounter, and not just range target practicing. I had two platforms with Red-Dots, they were carry platforms, and yes I truly loved them on the range and distance targets as well. I have a very good Master Grip and my adjustment to them was very easy. I LOVED THEM. Then I sat back on realized, after self evaluation of them and me that I decided to remove them as I’m much more capable with my Irons and my LASER.
Very, very informative. I had no idea I was doing this incorrectly. Thank you for posting this.
Stigmatism prevents me from using red dots. I have to use a trijicon acog TA11 instead. Holographic sights are very fuzzy as well. The Eotech is one example. I also believe iron sights are much better and more effective on pistols. People are now becoming unfamiliar with iron sights. So the gun either wont have them or if the red dot goes down they won't know how to use iron sights.
Oh I understand a dot. It's just ridiculous that you have to think about your distance and a hold over in order to hit your point of aim. Iron sights don't lie. People just want every little chest code advantage they can get to mask their inability to fundamentally shoot well.
I feel personally targeted... Especially when you brought trigger control into the convo 😂
Been shooting for over a year now, started off the rip with a RDS. Did what you talked about, focusing on the dot on accident. Thru more dry fire I figured it out. I was laser focused on a small object and just presented… didn’t really notice the optic bezels… or the pew…. Or even my hands and the concept “clicked”. I still catch myself wanting to focus on the dot sometimes, however shooting occluded and doing small transitions while conscience about “eyes first THEN head and hands” helps.
Personally I found that I couldn't find the red dot, quickly enough, in a pressure situation, compared to bringing irons to bare. Subsequently, I couldn't aim accurately in a hurry, compared to irons. Very satisfying for range shooting and drills, not so good in a fast, instinctive life or death situation. Again, very good if you have time and are in the situation to draw and acquire the reticule, like you do at the range but not so good all round.
And I was always worried the batery might go flat.😂
This simply describes something I’ve been struggling to put into words for awhile.
Wasn't the question just about red dot acquisition, regardless of whether the guy is sight focus or target focus? Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but if you can't "acquire" the dot, doesn't really matter whether you're sight or target focus, so bigger "dot" is easier to "find" as in you're more aware it's off to the left or right
I hate to be that guy, but I gotta say it…. Every time to grip your gun, your finger goes right on the damn trigger. Horrible habit
It is a point to remember, yes.
Very good observation.