I showed my nephew what hand-checking was. He is the leading scorer on a state champ team. After I locked him in front of me and blocked his shot. He was speechless. Tougher game back then. No lie!
Khris Wilkerson yeah, but the hand is right back on you. Jordan will tell you. He applied pressure to even control where he wanted them to go. No question hand checks will cripple any offensive team. I bet you a hundred dollars the piston bad boys 89 and the thug knicks 93 would beat the world champ warriors today. Warriors showed their kryptonite many times. Tough d!
@@khriswilkerson957 A hand swipe is the answer, but a tough defender will be right back on you. There is a reason why that kid from the Pheonix Suns scored 70. Trust me, he would not score that much against a real team. Now days people get 60 after 3 quarters. Poor d fense now.8
@@khriswilkerson957 ... I did the same thing to my big, strong, high flying nephew, and I was a slow 43 year old at the time. Little simple things I did made him lose his balance and I showed him how I was able to beat him to the basket anytime I felt like it. The game is 90% mental, 10% physical.
in 2004 Several teams including the Pistons were winning with hard defense. They'd limit their opponent to less than 80 and score about 85 points or so. For the lay man, this was hard to watch, and the NBA was losing ratings and money, so they changed the hand checking rules from two hands in the back to one hand or one forearm in the back, and no touching while the person with the ball faces you. In 2005 Scoring went up, as well as the ratings and THAT is why OG's say that the game today is SOFTER, which it DIRECTLY IS.
Still is today. ( "Rule No. 12" The hand is considered part of the ball when the hand is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt.)
Agreed on old school toughness, but allowing hand-checking just opens the door for more allowed contact, jersey pulling, elbow in the back on post-ups, scratching, ect.
Reggie Miller started flopping, paul peirce took advantage over it. Wade made it a free throw. Now everybody does it. If mugsy, isaiah thomas and spudd webb played in the 90s. What makes you think lebron wouldn't dominate.
Jerome Yudiet what the kids nowadays don't realize that the NBA is manipulating the rules and narrative to sell them a product. They're essentially creating a tiger woods or a Michael Jordan like product. It's not really a matter of are today's players actually as good or better than players in the Michaels era or the 2000s....hint, they're not.
@@alanlee67 exactly.. it's okay though if they do that.. the only problem is fans tend to think that they actually are better than former legends of the sport and they even bragg about it.. so annoying
Christian Holzner Basically. Well said bro. No wonder so many zone defensive plays are used now ( mainly against trams that don't have strong 3 point shooting) How can one play effective defensive on a Steph curry pick and roll with KD.
No, he'd definitely get less drives per game, resulting into less points and less efficiency. And LeBron won't be the best defensive player, he's not quick laterally and literally stands to watch the ball when his man is not holding it.
So you want to watch the likes of Shaq and other no-talent giants who can't shoot past two feet, or even make free throws, just bump defenders out of the way with their huge asses? Yeah, that's exciting, ha ha. Takes no skill, just a big derriere.
Arguing With Stupid I’m not saying I don’t like threes. I just feel everyone’s defense has gone to poop and no one battles down low anymore. Basketball in my opinion was better to watch in the 80-90’s. It’s still fun today, just tired of the lack of defense mainly.
You guys must not be watching 7ft Kristaps double cross step-back J today. Or Joel Embiid hit a 3, and then post-up pivot slam on his matchup on the block. The big man is more than alive and more skilled than ever.
I'VE SAID THIS FOR YEARS!!!! That's why I say that MJ is better than LJ. But, the hand check isn't the only factor that made it harder for players "back in the day". The OP mentioned it briefly but bigs actually playing AND defending their position made it harder for players. MJ played with the hand check and a more congested lane. 4s and 5s were not perimeter players and didn't have to defend too far outside the lane. So, after fighting through a hand check from Dumars, Payton or Stockton MJ then had to create against Ewing, Oakley, Mahorn and Malone that were actually in the lane. That's why players like Isiah Thomas (not Isaiah Thomas lol) are legendary. Smaller guards like him went into the lane and made buckets amongst the bigs. And got their asses beat most nights. I also want to say that I don't mind that the game isn't as physical as it used to be, same with the NFL. MJ changed his game (using the almost indefensible fade away J) because of how physical it had gotten for him to drive to the basket. MJ being able to alter his game and still do what he did makes him better than any player I've seen. I wasn't old enough to have appreciated Oscar, Wilt and Bill. But, the ball that was played in the late 70s, 80s and early 90s was some of the most competitive ball I've ever seen. LJ is a defensive liability in my opinion. I still enjoy watching the NBA. Do I think the product on the floor is as good as it used to be? No. The one and dones have diluted the talent in the league and jumpers are the go to shot for 80% of the players. But, when I see Steph hit a 3 from the parking lot and then get back on D, accept the switch and STAY with LJ on almost every play...that reminds me of the ball I grew up on.
M. P. Greatly written. Pretty sure top NBA Analyst, knowledgeable elites and individuals who understand agree that MJ is better. Your right on so many points including how bigs (4s & 5s) didn't have to play outside so much as they do now. No wonder Dwight Howard having a hard time adjusting to the mandated NBA state of play now. Anyhow, greatly written.
M. P. I hear you bro that’s exactly what I’ve been saying today’s basketball is softer than the pillow I sleep on at night bro your totally right and I support what you say
Lmao if you think LeBron would have problems with hand checking while he would be one of the biggest guys in the 90s than you are just dumb or on some type of drugs. If LeBron could use his physicality more than he would dominate more in defense and in offense.
And to add to the above comment, charges aren't called anymore, not like they used to be. LeBron IS allowed to use his physicality and to say that he should be allowed to use it more is just fucked up. He is allowed to run guys over night in and out, no charges called... usually it's a blocking foul on some guy who got steamrolled.
Nah. It isn't so simple to say that one thing is the determinant to someone being the goat. If Lebron played back then, he would adapt to the game back then. If Jordan played in this era, he would adapt to this era. If you think about it, KD would never last in such a physical era since he is pretty soft but he is the second best player in the NBA today. Does that mean that the average all-star back in the day would beat the shit out of KD? Of course not. That would be silly.
If anything it just makes you appreciate good defense even more because you know it's that much more difficult and technical to properly defend someone without getting fouled out in 1 qtr. But let's be honest most people want to see crazy offense instead of technical defense. At least the casual fan. And they want to appeal to everyone while also making it fun for a casual fan to watch without having to understand the rules. But a bunch of fouls just makes it annoying imo because it's an aggressive sport and certain things are bound to happen, so its hard to balance what should be allowed and what shouldn't
@@CJSH77 It's not the lack of handchecking why guys can stepback at will. It's because of the perversion of the gather rule allowing them to take 3 steps. If you go back in time 10 years, the guys that can reliably shoot a stepback in a defender's face without getting stuffed could be counted on one hand. Paul Pierce. And maybe Dirk or Olajuwon with their turnarounds. Now that you can take 3 steps and play a game of hopskotch before shooting, almost anyone can get enough separation to get off a stepback, and it no longer requires a freak combination of defender manipulation, ball handling, coordination, visual processing speed and split second trigger. It just requires one to burn their basketball skills and accept the sorry rules of the NBA, our WWF style entertainment league. 97% of harden's stepbacks would be a travel, in real basketball.
@@mildyproductive9726 Well, travel violations are different than what it is in the 90s. Agree that step back could count as travel in the 90s, but again, with hand checking, defender get a better feel of what the other player's center of gravity, and can anticipate movement change.
@@CJSH77 Do you play? IMO, a good perimeter defender doesn't even try to anticipate other player's movement. Reacting to player movement just gets you out of position. A good defender lets the dribbler get the first step, then he stays with him on his side, defending against the pullup and trying to keep him from getting a direct line to the hoop. If you return handchecking, Harden will be even better, TBH. He has insane weight and strength advantage over most guards in the NBA. He will shove with his forearm, take his 3 steps, and defender will be nowhere in sight. When you get tired of getting your ankles broken, you might figure out the secret and become the most annoying defender to driving/slashing ball handlers. The secret is discipline. You watch the dribbler's hips, and you don't do squat until the hips have moved 6 inches. It's harder than it sounds; it is a god damn eternity. But if you can learn to do that, it will absolutely infuriate/frustrate the offense. Bonus tip, when you finally shift your weight and cut with the player, be prepared to shoot your hand down towards the spot between the players feet the instant you recognize he is crossing over the other direction. This is where the ball will be.
@@damianpresha5155 minimal contact?? You didn't see the video did you? We're not just talking about foul calls... We're talking about the contact that wears you down throughout the whole game!!! No one can touch LeBron nowadays
@@HectorSaulify So you basically complaining cause jordan was too small/fragile.Thats what led to his injuries/he played reckless.Lebron dont have to worry about that cause he's more physically imposing.
@@damianpresha5155 Uhm... There's nothing to complain about bro! Jordan got 6 chips 😂😂😂!! Seems like you don't even know who he is. Just watch this video and show me clips where LeBron was hit the same way. At least Jordan didn't pretend he had a fractured hand after being swept in the finals 😂😂😂😂
@@HectorSaulify You cant hit lebron like that cause he's not as thin or small as Michael. And what they do to lebron is tackle him or yank on his arm to try and injure him.Dont pretend like you didnt see draymond try to blind lebron either.And his hand was hurt you must forgot he had a MRI GS was just a better team.One more thing to keep in mind Michael needed a great wing player to win.
why are people still even comparing MJ to Lebron ? MJ is on another level. almost every game that he played felt like going to the movies. it was unreal.
ezekiel mohammed Wilt was 7 feet playing with 5’10” white boys. If you put bigs like Giannis, Embiid, or AD in that era and they would’ve dominated just the same
@@Bob-eo6uh You know Embiid sides with Wilt in the GOAT discussion? He admits on camera that he is the most athletic bigman. Wilt could play in any era. If we could make it to where wilt was born in 1990 he would be just as skilled as these other players. But that athleticism,strength,speed would still be present. Possibly could go down as the best athlete ever.
ezekiel mohammed Whyis he the GOAT? Because people say so? I have yet to see any video evidence of this athletic ability. Not even the “100 point game” can be seen. The only highlights I see are him dominating over guys half his size.
@@Bob-eo6uh as soon as you said video evidence your argument is trash. Many former nba players talk about wilt chamberlains dominance. Look at some interviews. 5'10 white boys lmao. So walt bellamy , willis reed, kareem abdul jabar, bill russel are all 5'10 white guys? And the league back then had about 8 teams which means hes playing the best bigs every single game as opposed to Jordan playing some scrub expansion teams that water the league down. Wilt is the best. If not he goes down as the greatest single athlete ever. Only sheer ignorance and lack of knowledge would disagree. Lay off the first take!!!
@Blue Skeptic I'm not saying basketball was better or worse. It was different. But, Jordan struggled versus zones. The last time he legally played versus zones was when he was still in college. In the NBA, there was a illegal defense that prevented teams to zone freely. When they got caught, they were penalized [one free throw awarded to the other teams + the other team still had the possession] BTW, Lavine is averaging 23.8 PPG at the moment. BTW2, not again! I was tired of these old heads criticizing basketball in the 1980s and 1990s... Yet, since 2000, the youngsters of the '80s/'90s are shitting on modern ballers... The cycle is now complete. BTW3, every era I've seen (born in the 1970s) had pros and cons. I enjoy the talent of these kids since my youth! BTW4, Jordan is great, but not perfect.
@@david.tousignant20, MJ struggled to score? Please... Not in today's zone defense. The college games he had was against hand-checking zones. Moving 3-2 or 2-3 screens in the NBA haven't prevented him to score 30+ a night and the modern zones in his Wizards years lead him to score 25 6 5 prior to injury. Heck he averaged 29 points in the last 10 games prior to the injury. .. The dude averaged 37.1 and 35 from 86-88 while getting at least 200 steals and 100 blocks. No way he'd struggle to score in today's NBA. There's flourishing of 40+ poing games, 40 ppg too easy for MJ.. Well that's what Phil Jackson and some recently retired players said. (Ray Allen for example who played with LBJ). Ticky tacky fouls a plenty. That's what Allen said. MJ would have a field day even without shooting a single 3 point shot. Well, 3 of his 5 60+ point games, he didn't score any 3pt shot, in 2 of those 3 he didn't even attempt one shot beyond the arc.
@@lamefart Yes, in college Jordan scored fewer points against zones. Example? Versus Virginia, Jordan was held under 10 points and they were zoning most of the game. In the NBA, zones were allowed legally in 2004. Jordan never played versus zones. Versus the Knicks, the Hornets and the Pistons, games were slow as hell, because teams were zoning. When they got caught, it was an illegal defense. Which resulted in free-throw + possession of the ball. In one game, Bill Cartwright even stayed beyond the three point line all game long (ZZZ) & was pointing Bill Laimbeer who was zoning! You don't remember, but it happened. N.B. Jordan is great; one of the best in fact. But, like others he struggled and had shortcomings. That's why he became a legend. He learned from these mistakes. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't great; I'm saying Jordan never competed against zones legally in the NBA (and he didn't wanted zones to be in the NBA during the 1990s)
@@david.tousignant20 last time I checked he was the highest scoring sophomore... College player of the year in 83 and 84.. It's college basketball anyway. We're talking about the MJ in NBA.. He was way different player under Dean Smith than when he let loose in the NBA.. When the zone defense was "legalized" amd hand-check rule fully implemented in 2004 did you see how AI, Kobe, LBJ amd Dirk's average suddenly climbed up? So no. Zone wouldn't slow MJ. Logic dictates that lesser perimeter players of today could score 30+ points how would MJ struggle? When you said MJ never playerd against zone then everything you said after that was moot. He played against zone defense. Zone existed, even if it wasn't legal there were loopholes. How could 2-3 Bad Boys clog him everytime he went inside of it was always illegal to leave an opponent?
If handchecking comes back fans will then complain that players suck cause you will see lower final scores in the game now that players can actually defend
@@kershenchandria1884 agreed,they don’t teach defense during practice nor are there real defense trainers like there are shooting trainers,the offense just got better
without hand checking there would be no drama in the game. wes unseld won a nba championship because of hand checking. Wes was 6 ft 7 guarding a 7 ft 2 jabbar, he hand checked him of of his favorite spot on the post, which made jabbar lose his rhythm on his shot. I always thought players getting paid had to adapt to the challenges of their games. Going from a average of 94 pts a game to 97 pts a game without hand checking isn't much of a improvement, as for the ratings they would have gone up regardless. When baseball and the nfl went on strike, they're ratings went down, but came back up. true fans of sports always will watch a game no matter what.
Mike S this is the problem I have with new basketball fans. You niggas to soft, like seriously watching nba games today kinda pissed me off a bit cause defending has been ignored sooo much.
reyian451 , it has not been ignored. Warriors, Celtics, Jazz, Spurs are all great defensive teams. Kawhi, Klay, Draymond, AD are all great defensive players and recognized as such. Maybe all you old school fans would rather watch hockey or something?
Kobe Bryant said that zones are harder than handchecking, he said *"I don't care if you handcheck me with three hands, if there is nobody behind you, you're not going to stop me, so the zone, I think, cripples some of the top scorers."*
Also, zones are allowed now and scoring is up... Defensive 3 seconds and 3s. Also, you could still double team and camp in the paint back then. While zone was rarely called
I watched a few older nba games and tbh it wasn't for me. I prefer the faster pace and the team ball today's nba has. Too much iso in the old days. Different strokes for different folks i guess.
In all fairness, players seem to be better shooters these days. Maybe it's a point of focus now. But if you watch 80s and 90s games, maybe even early 2000's, there are so many open shots missed. I can't tell if it's due to the increased defense of the playoffs, but there is a remarkable lack of accuracy in the jump shot from that time. I'm not talking about defended shots but completely open shots. That's one aspect that is better now.
Michael Jordan averaged 30ppg for a career while dealing with hand checking that’s the GOAT right there 🐐 y’all gotta stop with this Lebron BS , Lebron wouldn’t average 30 ppg for one season in Jordans era
Brandon 2b You can't compare eras! People complained about the scoring. But, in the last two consecutive seasons, the league average was 105 PPG. Well, from 1980 to 1993 the NBA league average was always over 105 PPG while shooting over 47% (despite being worse shooters in general and from the free-throw line). I was born before MJ entered the league and it's always been "my generation was better" In 1989, many old heads stated old school basketball was tougher and better...
Those who are arguing LeBron would average over 30 forget that he barely averaged over 30 in this era. And please dont throw Dominiques name out there like he was a scrub, dude was a beast
Cody Bower That's not how Lebron fans categorize Jordan's early post season failures. They just say "Jordan was 1-9 in the playoffs before Pippen" without any context. They never give specifics, like he was playing against the Celtics - a team with five future Hall of Famers. Or that the playoff first round was best out of five instead of best out of seven, so it was harder for bottom teams to win a game. Or that Jordan only played 22 games in his sophomore season because of a broken foot. No. They only want to get into specifics when it comes to arguing in Lebron's favor. And incredible teams existed in every era. But the media likes to pretend that every thing that's happening now is happening for the first time!
@THE Rattler .... Exactly. Chris Jackson, or Rauf, would get hot every now and again but it was far and few. He also had a nice handle. People also have to realize that it wouldn't be so easy to come into the lane because it was clogged with great centers and power forwards ready to put a foot in your ass!
Curry got handles and he is unique, What the fuck are y’all talkin about. Chris Jackson can’t shoot like Steph Curry so let’s end that conversation. Curry would still be great.
@Lisa Rose He would be good, not great. You just couldn't do back then what you can today, and his coach sure as hell wouldn't let him try it. Curry is a product of his time more than any other great ever to play the game, he would be a step below Petrovic back in the 90s.
Handchecking was a very important part of defense, the league is soft. You can clearly see the change, shooters have all the space in the world and players with decent ball handling can go wherever they want. All of this was done for ratings.. I think the NBA finals between the Spurs and the Pistons was the final nail in the coffin... which might be one of the worst Finals in NBA history from a marketing standpoint because both teams are defense oriented. NBA is a business, the.money- making aspect of the league is more important than the game itself.. apparently, a softer league is a more profitable league at this point in time.
Basketball sucks now. I’m 39. It was fun to watch both strong and tough defense and strong, talented and strategic minded offense. Implementing the movement of Mismatches was the key to scoring back in those days. That was intellectually fun to watch. I can watch this BS playground YMCA style of play for free elsewhere at the park. Except it’s not as great lol 👍
Mike S I disagree. Hand check is tough and manly. It's because of hand-checking, which allowed defenders to stick their muscled forearms into their man's chest to impede their progress towards the rim. A strong perimeter(not even mentioning low post guys like Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russel, Garnett or Andre Jordan) defender with a nine foot plus hands like MJ, Dr J or better yet ten foot hands like Kawahi Leonard planted on the back or chest or thigh would be tuff on you as a offensive player. With that kind of advantage, the actual best way to prevent defenders from poking at the ball was to make them hand-check the back. Sorry it hurts the body after a period of time
What's wrong with a softer basketball game? In the old days, all you needed to do to stop a player was to be aggressive and put your body on him. Sure takes a lot of skill to do that. A fucking braindead ape can do that.. -_- Nowadays, everyone has a shot at the rim. No matter how big or small you are, if you can dribble the ball well, you will do well. The court should be a place where players can show off their hours of practice on the game, and not be instantly shut down by a 250 lb giant brainlessly pushing you.
Jakevious Perry, this trope about Jordan averaging 50 is utter nonsense. First of all, the creator of this video cherry picked film highlights to make old school basketball look far more brutal than it actually was. One could easily post a series of videos showing Steph being grabbed, held, pushed and abused with no whistle, just as one might show Jordan getting to the rim with little resistance. The stats prove that hand checking curbs did little to alter the balance of play. The collective offensive ratings of teams in Jordan's first decade are actually slightly higher than they have been for the past decade. New rules allow for zone defensive practices that allow teams to shade defenders toward stars to facilitate rim protection. Also, players today are flat out better - better shooters, better ballhandlers, better passers.
Sir Braxton, Kawhi is a bigger, taller, heavier, longer more skilled version of MJ. The NBA is better than it was in the 90s by a mile. Kawhi is Jordan's worse nightmare, and the old timers would want no part of players today. No disrespect to the legends. The game is supposed to get better. Its called progress.
They removed it and made it stricter because in 2004 Detroit Pistons won the championship by playing tough nose defense, but they are not selling tickets. The NBA is a business. In the 2000 era, players couldn't score a bucket if their lives depended on it, fans lose interest because of their lack of skill. Remember how the midrange has become a lost art? The NBA thought that if players score by volume, it would help sell tickets, and that's what they did. It helped scoring and inflated stats. But, if this generation played in the earlier era, they would have been average players with poor FG shooting.
It wasn’t just hand checking. Michael Jordan had to go thru a double triple team and than dunk on a huge big man center. Nobody in todays NBA can do this. That is why Jordan is the GOAT.
hand checking rules doesnt applied in 90s because of mj, although they cant stop him from scoring even without that rules, we can imagine if hand check fouls is apply in the 90s then mj will average 40 ppg
1994 rule change to protect the players from getting smacked or smacking each other. 2004 rule change to made scoring easier because the Spurs Nets Final was the least watched NBA Finals of all time ... because DEFENSE!! As good as Curry became he would've never get by defenders that easy especially when they can put a forearm on you to not allow him to do those awesome crossovers.
@@inthatmood9350 ... Kobe gets that title because his game mirrored Mike's to some extent. I like to throw this out for shits and grins: compare MJs rookie season numbers to Kobe's MVP season numbers and there you have it. Prime Kobe isn't even better than a rookie Jordan.
@@inthatmood9350 ..... And didn't that happen AFTER the rules changes? And what was Kobe's shooting percentage for that season as compared to Jordan's during the season he averaged 35ppg? What was Kobe averaging before the rules changes? You have to put things in proper perspecitve my dude!
@@ericjordan6059 "Also, just because the rules are on the books, does not mean they don't get away with using those techniques". - These are your words in the other video. I literally said the same thing about handchecking in this era, and you said, per the rule change in 2004, there's no more handchecking in the NBA. Again, the rule change was already in effect the 79-80 season. You don't get to just pick and choose when players abide by the rules and when referees decide techniques exist lol. The NBA may have adjusted the handchecking rule yet again in 2004, but just as you said, just because it's in the rule book, it doesn't mean players still don't use the techniques.
In the past 10 years Adam Silver has made so many rule changes to promote scoring and all these younger fans can't comprehend that this is why scoring has increased so much. A perfect example is lebron and jordan. In 2002-03 jordan averaged 20 ppg. He was scoring 25% of his teams points and the average ppg for teams across the NBA was 95 ppg. In 2022 lebron averaging 30 ppg was him scoring 25% of his teams points and the average team ppg across the NBA was 115 ppg. Team scoring is 20 pts higher in 2022-23 vs 2002-03. Adam Silver has openly stated he did everything possible to increase scoring. He's said it many times in interviews. If your make scoring easier it will appear like players today are better but it's not reality. They simply have rules now that promote offense. If you dropped a prime Jordan into today's game he'd average 40+ ppg.
In the 20th century, NBA players typically accumulated 200+ steals or 300+ blocks to lead the league in either category. In the new millennium, these numbers have only been reached thrice for the former and once for the latter. Hell, Alvin Robertson recorded 301 steals in '86 while Mark Eaton had 456 blocks in '85. Also, there hasn't been a DPOY guard in 22 years. Since its inception in '83, four guards won it in that decade alone (five if you count Sidney Moncrief twice) before the dominant centers of the 90s took over.
The rule changes are why there are several eras of NBA and why players from different eras can't really be compared because they each played under different rules. There is the early era pre-3 point line, the 'modern' NBA when the 3 point was installed post 1979, and the current era which came in around 2004 when hand checking was eliminated and there were no more big men camping in the lane. I miss the era of the big men and tough defense. The focus on perimeter play and the analytics stuff bores me to tears.
I'm an oldschool player in streetball and hand checking has always been part of my defense, but nowadays sometimes I get yelled, "foul" from some young players as if I were the clueless one.
You can play good defense without punching and swinging on ppl… that whole generation sucked… mj athletic ability is why he score but hand checking should have never been a thing…
@@blase2397you’re insane. Hand-checking is what made great players greater and ok players nobodies. It really allowed the defense to participate in the game. Now it's 85% offense.
Just imagine Magic, Bird and Jordan had to play in an era where physicality was allowed against guys like Rodman, Laimbeer, Barkley, Rick Mahorn, and Karl Malone. Just imagine how Curry and Harden would fare in that era.
@@lenfer1607 First: hand check. That wouldnt allow him to get into the paint that easily or do that stepback move (which most of the time is traveling). Second, even if he got past his defender he would get mauled in the paint all game and wouldnt get nowhere near as many foul calls as he does today. This is of course, if you put him right there in the middle of the 80s and tries to play like he does now. Sure, he would adapt and then become a softer Vernon Maxwell
Lost in my the hand-checking discussion is that Jordan was allowed to hand-check too. He was allowed to get physical with opposing players which contributed to his great success as a defender.
Solid video and sorry for the long post but hope you read it. I think there is a lot more that goes into it than one rule change. I haven’t looked into at that much but here is what I found on a superficial review of bball reference over the last 72 seasons. From 2000-2004, the nba had the lowest scoring on avg per team in nba history (excluding the 50s), ranking from 59-62 out of 72 seasons bottoming out with the 03-04 season at 93.4 ppg. Then the hand check rule was placed and yes, scoring did go up, but the 2004-05 (97.2 ppg) and 05-06 (97 ppg) seasons rank only slightly better at 54 and 55 out of 72 seasons in scoring avg. There are also many seasons that rank worse than that or right around that since the hand check was eliminated including 2011-12 (96.3 ppg, lockout i know) at 57 of 72, 2012-13 (98.1 ppg) at 52 of 72, 2008 thru 2011 ranking between 45-47 of 72, 2014-15 ranking 44. Even last years 17-18 season only ranks 32nd of 72,. At the highest ranked seasons of scoring avg there are the 60s, which have the top 11 scoring seasons of all time. After that is the 84-85 season ranked 12 (110.8 ppg), and multiple seasons in the 80s following. I noticed a lull in scoring between 1996-2004 (most seasons around 94 ppg), lowest scoring avgs since the 50s, but before that from 1976-1993, it was consistently pretty high at around 108-111 ppg. 2012-15 avg around 100 ppg Only the last 2 seasons has there been a major spike in scoring and it is similar to the averages for the seasons of the Bulls first 3 peat. I just think there is a lot more that goes into how easy or difficult it is in the league to score other than hand checking including the zone defense rule, more advanced offenses, pace and space league, athletes from now and before, skills training and technology, dominant big men vs dominant perimeter players etc etc.
Now have this scenario, lebron, 280lbs 6’9 guarding a player, as strong as he is, he can be a beast defender. He will thrive in whatever situation you throw at him cause he is an all around and most versatile player. There will be no fucking kobe nor fucking curry or even durant, if handchecking is allowed but there will always be lebron. How about that dumb fuck.
Call me old, but I grew up on 80s basketball, and the games were so much more intense - and watchable. To me watching today's game is like watching a pre-game shoot-around. It took so much more creativity, toughness, and basketball IQ to score back then, and great defense made it a real two-way contest. Huge mistake to change all those rules. It's now like football without tackling.
ruffdawgg yea I no I seen him fighting people to but win you got Lambir and Rodman n the rest of his team ready to go to war some people was jest scared to go back at IT..n curry not really that soft he been in the weight room these past couple of years you can tell n they kinda allow hand checking in the playoffs were they let things get more physical.
Also they added the rule of giving your opponent space to land. Bruce Bowen was doing it to better perimeter players and even reggie Miller a bit. It helped offensive shooters know they can shoot no matter what and have the space to land safely. Players like Dwayne wade exploited this to draw fouls
What kind of logic you have? The NBA made the league softer AND it necessarily mean the league has gotten worse! It has become a 3pt contest. And if they dunk, it's become a lousy rookie-sophomore all-star game.
While I miss the ability of the big man to shut down smaller quicker players I also love that bigs are now allowed to dribble and shoot from longer distances. This goes both ways. Guard too took advanage of these rules on mis matches as well.
Damn I just noticed I'm those guys who hand checked and actually plays good defense on people. I thought its a normal thing Cuz its just natural for me to guard with touching players in the waist, but NEVER knew it was banned from NBA. I play defense like that with my homies, none of them even complained. Its just a normal thing I guess
Scoremessi Score Homie you don't hand check right away Bruh. When he gets closer to the basket, then you go tighter then hand check. Who Tf handchecks right away from 30 ft when you players can shake n bake. Oh Idk basketball? I appreciate your assumption and I hope your attitude makes you a great person. Thanks
Mrgoodkenneth it is normal to handcheck even to this day NBA players handchecks but not the obvious hanchecks where you grab a player or pushing him which is a foul in whatever Era, dude dont believe this Old Timers saying otherwise they are Bias. just go watch NBA classics and you'll see not this garbage cherrypicked clips which is obviously Bias
agree....most of these old guys are nostalgic, the game evolved and whats better is that coaching evolved too....it became more tactical, as supposed to...telling the players to play out of the norm braindead physicality
You left out a HUGE amount of context. In 90-91 season they added the flagrant foul rule. In the 01-02 season they made zone defense legal. So from 2001 - 2004 zone defense AND hand checking were legal, this 3 year span was pretty much the most defensive era in modern basketball and they wanted to make the game more offensively oriented WITHOUT getting rid of zone defense which they had just added. THAT’S WHY THEY GOT RID OF HAND CHECKING
So, a 38 year old Jordan, after the zone change rules, but before hand checking had been essentially eliminated, was putting up 20+ a game. Doesn't that kinda settle the argument? If he could score on zone, with hand checking, many years removed from his prime, it's fair to say that if he had been in his prime, zone would not have had much effect on him.
His numbers dropped considerably after he tore his miniscus, but he was averaging close to 30 ppg as he was getting back to basketball shape prior to that accident. He dropped 94 pts in back to back games against the zone, so the argument that zone defense would somehow hinder MJ is a fallacy. If it didn't stop an old MJ from scoring (it was old age and injuries which did), then the zone won't be stopping a prime MJ from burning the hoops each game night.
I miss hand checking, big men, perimeter players with hands on them, using skill to get their shot and bravery to get to the rim. Post up play, backing your man down. It’s a new game but not the beautiful game I once knew
Soft 200%, I've seen 30 point half time leads disappear because there is no defense. You might say it's because of 3pt shooting is better, or is it that lack of physicality and added you're able to take 5 steps like harden does on step back 3. NBA is a scoring league now. 200 points is just around the corner
This is a topic many Lebron fans hate to discuss because his generation and beyond is extremely lazy because of this exact rule change. I used to play ball with young guys who would yell: "You can't touch me! You can't put your hands on me slim!" And this is exactly how they come up playing...especially star players on teams in these AAU circles. They come up knowing this rule gives them freedom of movement. Back when Jordan played, hand checking actually forced players from a move they were comfortable with, so to play through it made you that much better. And all these young guys say is: "Lebron could have played and dominated back then." No he couldn't. If Lebron wants to run point like he does, a guy who lacks lateral movement, you mean to tell me he would still dominate in an era where players played defense so tough you have to develop, not only a great shot, but play with your back to the basket? No, Lebron would NOT be the player he is today...him nor a host of other NBA players. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook...you name it. ALL of their games would be seriously altered. I like these guys, but facts are facts. Defense alters games.
C B bruh most guards in that era did. But yeah I am sure mark price could be all NBA and an all star like 4 times but LeBron kd and Steph aren't nearly as badass as them. LMFAO sure dude, whatever you say.
+Flare Epic - Out of a league of over 30 teams, you names THOSE guards as if Jordan was going head to head with THESE type players his entire career. Laughable at best.
C B what the hell does Jordan being guarded by them or facing them every game have to do with it. Mark price was a 4 time all star and former 1st all team NBA guy in that "tough league" but Steph couldn't have made it? The NBA was shit in the 90s man. Bj Armstrong was an all star star guard in the 90s man. GTFO here. Steph couldn't have made it in an NBA where mark price was consistently an all star and all NBA guy. Dude what are you on? John Stark's was a dang all star, but steph, kd, and LeBron would have been too frail? What world you live in?
If hand-checking existed in today's era Steph Curry would not be a superstar, and Kyrie Irving's Razzle Dazzle would take a big hit too, LeBron wouldn't be what he is today a locomotive straight to the basket with no moves. Jordan thrived in that era because of his footwork, strength, killer mentality (can't be soft), and skill. Kobe would definitely thrive in the hand checking era because of his ability to hit the toughest shots footwork and skill
big dogger perfectly said. I think everyone who knows basketball can agree. Steph would've of not been the superstars he is now. No way. Tyler ullis, Devin Booker, James Harden KD etc. Russell Westbrook probably would've done fine tho in that era.
Hand Checking prevents people from driving to the bucket and not shooting from half court! Steph would still be a superstar. You still get fouled if you touch the player when they are shooting.
Steph would be less effective because he likes to fake drive, step back, and pull up. Hand-checking/arm bar would oftentimes hinder his mobility and balance so his shots wouldn't always be as clean. Wht a lot of people fail to realize, hand checking/arm bar depletes your energy. Fighting them would weaken your ability to keep chucking up long range shots, as well as free throw shooting. Lebron James plays a position which is easier for him to do what he does (listed as small forward but is actually a point forward). In that time, he would be listed as a power forward so he'd be guarded by players who are just as big and strong as he. His game would suffer as his back-to-the-basket game is mediocre and his half court set play is as well.
Steph gets handchecked nightly. Apparently nobody is actually watching. Handchecking fouls were still whistled fouls in the 90s, apparently everyone has forgotten that too.
I keep hearing about hand checking regarding Jordan, but you NEVER show any footage of Jordan actybeing hand checked. I remember watching Jordan play and he usually threw a hissy fit if you touch him.
Even regular people that are good but not pros can thrive playing under rules like this. The NBA became a marketing league, for crying out loud, check the jerseys player wear and the tons of logos they have on! There's no rivalry, no competition, just collect a paycheck and sit out a few games when not feeling like playing because I'm tired. Those are the new "superstars".
It wasn't play like that. The hand checking was more to keep track of the body of your opponent, and making it easier to check the ball, since your hands were closer to the hand's dribbler. The extreme examples you see it the video, like Rodman pushing Jordan on the floor are just that, extreme examples. They would normally get you a foul. To be honest, I stopped playing a long time ago, in the end of the 90's, and stop watching games at that time too. I did not know that the hand checking rules was changed at all. For me, it does not make any sense, because you are killing all sort of defensive plays, and defensive strategies. Anyway, just my 2 cents on the subject! ;)
Because it made the small fast players ineffective. It also made sure no one can shoot a easy 3. Hand checking out side the perimeter will make sure more than half of the 3 points in todays game won't happen . Having a hand to the body keeps the body side ways to the rim. How are you going to get a shot?
You also gotta mention how zone defense was introduced, that made it harder on the star players because previously they were able to just beat their man one on one.
Yeah no one in the comments talking about zone. Some rules make it easier and some rules make it harder. Now you can zone a ball handler even if you cant hand check them. Also in MJs era you couldn’t double a player without the ball. Now you can load up on a guy and deny him if you anticipate he’s gonna get the ball.
@@willcarlton3906 Exactly so even though the physicality may have lessened, the intensity didn't, and if anything it potentially became more difficult to deal with zone since the 2000s is known for being an inefficient era.
@@jamesvillar8989 Yep. And I do think Jordan is the GOAT but not by a landslide like some of his fans think. Around 2005 when Kobe played on those really mediocre teams, defenders used to double up Kobe BEFORE he even touched the ball effectively freezing him out of a possession. That was illegal D in MJ’s era. Jordan, Iverson, T-Mac, Paul Pierce, etc. are on record for saying how frustrating zone is to play against and how they’d rather face hand checking than zone. Just goes to show you can’t blindly trust the popular narratives that old heads like to create.
@@willcarlton3906 yeah I also see ridiculous comments like mj would average 60, lebron would just be a good player in that era, curry would be a bench warmer. These guys don't understand that there are certain benefits these guys would receive in that era . Also curry and lebron get hand checked from time to time and fouls won't be called. I mean if lebron is going to hand check how many people will get past him . And defense was played man to man then and double teaming wasn't allowed off ball. The main strategy of stopping curry these days is doubling or triple teaming him off ball which was illegal back then . No matter how tough you play defense ,hand check him ,curry can get past atleast 1 defender. Also not to mention Curry's defense would improve too , also he is good at steals wouldn't hand checking make it easier ?
This was actually a very informative vid. After watching it i believe it is softer it basically made the big man irrelevant for some time now and still sorta kinda does.
so basically in the 90s era you can almost hug a player so that he cant drive to the basket or make some space for a jumpshot butbin todays era its almost like your watching a street ball
It did got soft but more ball movement and attack from the arc. Being soft doesn’t necessarily mean it’s boring. I miss 80-90’s but what it is is what it is.
From a business standpoint I can totally see why they would get rid of handchecking. A good defense is boring to watch because nothing happens. atching the Warriors get in their groove and knock down 3 after 3 is just amazing to watch. But as a player, I'm not the fastest laterally so a handcheck or a forearm shiv helps me even the playing field when I'm going against someone smaller and faster than me.
agree.....and they would have to be able to defend on the other side of the court too....given that the era today is very offensive oriented, defense would be taxing on their bodies...if they want to maintain these 50 pt outputs
Mike and Bird wouldn't need to score that much. And for people who watched them, they'd know that leaving them open for shots will kill you and they played top notch defense. Jordan wasn't on the all defensive team 9 times and DPOY once for nothing while still carrying the offensive load. Gotta learn more about these players.
Not only has the hand checking been removed, but now it's ok for the offensive player to hand check the defender. Watch the the games and see what I mean. As the guy dribbles, he also puts out his arm to block out the defender to avoid having the ball taken. It's almost like the NFL definition of a straight arm. This too helps the offensive player thrive. In today's NBA, the defender is at a huge disadvantage.
I think sports in general have gotten softer, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, because it's improved the safety of the players, and made the league more exciting.
Buddy the risk to your body WAS THE EXCITEMENT. You’re clearly not an athlete cuz you wouldn’t say people going 80% is better than when people were forced to go 120% in the effort to FIGURE OUT HOW TO WIN. Watching that real time on the spot growth was fascinating. Now these new players are spoon fed STATS. Like with everything else in America the heart has been sapped. I know you’re not a competitor and more of a voyeur.
That isn't a question , it's a statement . The players/teams of the 80s and 90s were far superior than today's pillow ballers . Ball today is now ridiculously unwatchable
and KD said Kyrie is a better ball handler than AI, no disrespect to Kyrie cuz I like him but throw him back in the 90s and early 2000s and see how he does all these dribbles
Leon Yu I agree with you. Hand checking changes everything. I do believe Kyrie got more moves and stylistic movement in how he plays but would struggle in that older era.
But to the Lakers defence of 2004, Kobe was not good at all in the 2004 series. He even admitted that during his sit-down with Shaq that the 2004 finals was on him.
It was part of the game. So everyone would try to exploit it where it favors them. You don’t have to be a sorry player to hand check. No rule means no foul so use it to your advantage
Did the NBA get softer? (Also, please give names for the gaming channel)
Instagram- @mj2k_allday
Twitter- @mj2kallday
MJ2KALLDAY definitely got softer!!!
MJ2KALLDAY samurai gaming
MJ2KALLDAY
MJ I PLAY 2K ALL DAY
Make your gaming channel name MJGAMING
Yeah softer
*old head punches me in the middle of a game
Me: wtf
Old head:That’s just physical defense man.
this had me dying 😂
Kevin Da Great that happens to me alot
happens to me so often
Everyday😂💀
MJ2KALLDAY oh hey thanks man
I showed my nephew what hand-checking was. He is the leading scorer on a state champ team. After I locked him in front of me and blocked his shot. He was speechless. Tougher game back then. No lie!
Khris Wilkerson yeah, but the hand is right back on you. Jordan will tell you. He applied pressure to even control where he wanted them to go. No question hand checks will cripple any offensive team. I bet you a hundred dollars the piston bad boys 89 and the thug knicks 93 would beat the world champ warriors today. Warriors showed their kryptonite many times. Tough d!
@@khriswilkerson957 A hand swipe is the answer, but a tough defender will be right back on you. There is a reason why that kid from the Pheonix Suns scored 70. Trust me, he would not score that much against a real team. Now days people get 60 after 3 quarters. Poor d fense now.8
kingkongstrong yeah golden state wouldn’t do shit
@@khriswilkerson957 ... I did the same thing to my big, strong, high flying nephew, and I was a slow 43 year old at the time. Little simple things I did made him lose his balance and I showed him how I was able to beat him to the basket anytime I felt like it. The game is 90% mental, 10% physical.
If you handchecked LeBron. You'll be crippled.
and Jordan averaged over 30 DURING the hand check era.. now let that sink in.
Exactly! Without overusing the 3, still playing great defense, and shooting his percentages from the floor.
Jordan was a player without a dribble moves and 3pt shot . Jordan in this nba gonna be like Derozan this is Fact.
@@magicmamba915 ... You sound stupid. Go back and learn something before speaking!
@@magicmamba915 all you're doing is repeating colin cowherd's stupid ass comments which hold no validity.
@@magicmamba915 but why wouldn't he? He average that back then what would stop him from torching teams now?
in 2004 Several teams including the Pistons were winning with hard defense. They'd limit their opponent to less than 80 and score about 85 points or so. For the lay man, this was hard to watch, and the NBA was losing ratings and money, so they changed the hand checking rules from two hands in the back to one hand or one forearm in the back, and no touching while the person with the ball faces you. In 2005 Scoring went up, as well as the ratings and THAT is why OG's say that the game today is SOFTER, which it DIRECTLY IS.
MC TETSUO Don't forget the hand was part of the ball at one time
Still is today. ( "Rule No. 12" The hand is considered part of the ball when the hand is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt.)
Agreed on old school toughness, but allowing hand-checking just opens the door for more allowed contact, jersey pulling, elbow in the back on post-ups, scratching, ect.
MC TETSUO Shit the way they call ticky tac fouls you'd think breathing hard was a flagrant 1
agree......hand checking is not correlated to being softer, if anything, it would be the flopping and the flagrant fouls called that became softer
Has the NBA gone soft? Well when I see a 6'8 260lbs LeBron James flopping and getting away with it., I'd definitely say yes..
Reggie Miller started flopping, paul peirce took advantage over it. Wade made it a free throw. Now everybody does it. If mugsy, isaiah thomas and spudd webb played in the 90s. What makes you think lebron wouldn't dominate.
@@144Souldier lebron would dominate..in flopping
Jerome Yudiet what the kids nowadays don't realize that the NBA is manipulating the rules and narrative to sell them a product. They're essentially creating a tiger woods or a Michael Jordan like product. It's not really a matter of are today's players actually as good or better than players in the Michaels era or the 2000s....hint, they're not.
@@alanlee67 exactly.. it's okay though if they do that.. the only problem is fans tend to think that they actually are better than former legends of the sport and they even bragg about it.. so annoying
@@alanlee67 even Michael Jordan himself didn't say he was the greatest ever..he gave respect to those who paved the way for him..
That's when “you can't guard me“ turned into “you're not allowed to guard me“
Christian Holzner Basically. Well said bro. No wonder so many zone defensive plays are used now ( mainly against trams that don't have strong 3 point shooting) How can one play effective defensive on a Steph curry pick and roll with KD.
What if LeBron played in the the hand checking era?
if this gets enough likes, I'll definitely look into it cuz this sounds interesting
Jayohaitchen 111 he would be defensive player of the year every single year
No, he'd definitely get less drives per game, resulting into less points and less efficiency. And LeBron won't be the best defensive player, he's not quick laterally and literally stands to watch the ball when his man is not holding it.
his game wouldve adapted to handchecking
SadisticSarcasm ????? LeBron would bully defenders than hand check lmfao. You don't understand how strong he is
It honestly makes it boring a lot of times to watch. I wanna see big men battle down low. Not some 160lb twig pull up for 3’s all the time.
So you want to watch the likes of Shaq and other no-talent giants who can't shoot past two feet, or even make free throws, just bump defenders out of the way with their huge asses? Yeah, that's exciting, ha ha. Takes no skill, just a big derriere.
Arguing With Stupid I’m not saying I don’t like threes. I just feel everyone’s defense has gone to poop and no one battles down low anymore. Basketball in my opinion was better to watch in the 80-90’s. It’s still fun today, just tired of the lack of defense mainly.
@@arguingwithstupidpeople2047 sorry, but the no-talent giants are all standing outside shooting 3s nowaday.
bojo perez you're dumb asf for saying lebron can't post up smh do you even NBA?
You guys must not be watching 7ft Kristaps double cross step-back J today. Or Joel Embiid hit a 3, and then post-up pivot slam on his matchup on the block. The big man is more than alive and more skilled than ever.
I'VE SAID THIS FOR YEARS!!!! That's why I say that MJ is better than LJ. But, the hand check isn't the only factor that made it harder for players "back in the day". The OP mentioned it briefly but bigs actually playing AND defending their position made it harder for players. MJ played with the hand check and a more congested lane. 4s and 5s were not perimeter players and didn't have to defend too far outside the lane. So, after fighting through a hand check from Dumars, Payton or Stockton MJ then had to create against Ewing, Oakley, Mahorn and Malone that were actually in the lane. That's why players like Isiah Thomas (not Isaiah Thomas lol) are legendary. Smaller guards like him went into the lane and made buckets amongst the bigs. And got their asses beat most nights. I also want to say that I don't mind that the game isn't as physical as it used to be, same with the NFL. MJ changed his game (using the almost indefensible fade away J) because of how physical it had gotten for him to drive to the basket. MJ being able to alter his game and still do what he did makes him better than any player I've seen. I wasn't old enough to have appreciated Oscar, Wilt and Bill. But, the ball that was played in the late 70s, 80s and early 90s was some of the most competitive ball I've ever seen. LJ is a defensive liability in my opinion. I still enjoy watching the NBA. Do I think the product on the floor is as good as it used to be? No. The one and dones have diluted the talent in the league and jumpers are the go to shot for 80% of the players. But, when I see Steph hit a 3 from the parking lot and then get back on D, accept the switch and STAY with LJ on almost every play...that reminds me of the ball I grew up on.
M. P. Greatly written. Pretty sure top NBA Analyst, knowledgeable elites and individuals who understand agree that MJ is better. Your right on so many points including how bigs (4s & 5s) didn't have to play outside so much as they do now. No wonder Dwight Howard having a hard time adjusting to the mandated NBA state of play now. Anyhow, greatly written.
M. P. I hear you bro that’s exactly what I’ve been saying today’s basketball is softer than the pillow I sleep on at night bro your totally right and I support what you say
Lmao if you think LeBron would have problems with hand checking while he would be one of the biggest guys in the 90s than you are just dumb or on some type of drugs. If LeBron could use his physicality more than he would dominate more in defense and in offense.
And to add to the above comment, charges aren't called anymore, not like they used to be. LeBron IS allowed to use his physicality and to say that he should be allowed to use it more is just fucked up. He is allowed to run guys over night in and out, no charges called... usually it's a blocking foul on some guy who got steamrolled.
M. P. Yep it's lebrons fault that the rule is there bruh mj sucks he's not even top 10 only 6 rings come on nigga that's ain't no goat stuff
This just proves why Jordan is the 🐐
Ajay Sharma absolutely right sir
Yes
Ye
Nah. It isn't so simple to say that one thing is the determinant to someone being the goat. If Lebron played back then, he would adapt to the game back then. If Jordan played in this era, he would adapt to this era. If you think about it, KD would never last in such a physical era since he is pretty soft but he is the second best player in the NBA today. Does that mean that the average all-star back in the day would beat the shit out of KD? Of course not. That would be silly.
Yeah but Jordan probably would have been good for another 10 a game if they couldn’t mug him.
The nba is worse for it now. Defense is not relevant anymore.
If anything it just makes you appreciate good defense even more because you know it's that much more difficult and technical to properly defend someone without getting fouled out in 1 qtr. But let's be honest most people want to see crazy offense instead of technical defense. At least the casual fan. And they want to appeal to everyone while also making it fun for a casual fan to watch without having to understand the rules. But a bunch of fouls just makes it annoying imo because it's an aggressive sport and certain things are bound to happen, so its hard to balance what should be allowed and what shouldn't
Step back shot won't work with hand checking
@@CJSH77 It's not the lack of handchecking why guys can stepback at will. It's because of the perversion of the gather rule allowing them to take 3 steps. If you go back in time 10 years, the guys that can reliably shoot a stepback in a defender's face without getting stuffed could be counted on one hand. Paul Pierce. And maybe Dirk or Olajuwon with their turnarounds. Now that you can take 3 steps and play a game of hopskotch before shooting, almost anyone can get enough separation to get off a stepback, and it no longer requires a freak combination of defender manipulation, ball handling, coordination, visual processing speed and split second trigger. It just requires one to burn their basketball skills and accept the sorry rules of the NBA, our WWF style entertainment league.
97% of harden's stepbacks would be a travel, in real basketball.
@@mildyproductive9726 Well, travel violations are different than what it is in the 90s. Agree that step back could count as travel in the 90s, but again, with hand checking, defender get a better feel of what the other player's center of gravity, and can anticipate movement change.
@@CJSH77 Do you play? IMO, a good perimeter defender doesn't even try to anticipate other player's movement. Reacting to player movement just gets you out of position. A good defender lets the dribbler get the first step, then he stays with him on his side, defending against the pullup and trying to keep him from getting a direct line to the hoop.
If you return handchecking, Harden will be even better, TBH. He has insane weight and strength advantage over most guards in the NBA. He will shove with his forearm, take his 3 steps, and defender will be nowhere in sight.
When you get tired of getting your ankles broken, you might figure out the secret and become the most annoying defender to driving/slashing ball handlers. The secret is discipline. You watch the dribbler's hips, and you don't do squat until the hips have moved 6 inches. It's harder than it sounds; it is a god damn eternity. But if you can learn to do that, it will absolutely infuriate/frustrate the offense. Bonus tip, when you finally shift your weight and cut with the player, be prepared to shoot your hand down towards the spot between the players feet the instant you recognize he is crossing over the other direction. This is where the ball will be.
The NBA is no longer a competitive sport, it's more of an entertainment industry like WWE.
Preach brother...PREACH!! The WWE is more entertaining actually.
LeGroin
which is why ratings are worse then ever
its more about business and how they make money on it
Umm, it's sole purpose is for entertainment 🤔💁♂️
And LeBron still complaints about the calls he doesn't get! It's hilarious bronny fans! Will never be better than Jordan.
You do realize you tpuch jordan he's going to the line for minimal contact.
@@damianpresha5155 minimal contact?? You didn't see the video did you? We're not just talking about foul calls... We're talking about the contact that wears you down throughout the whole game!!! No one can touch LeBron nowadays
@@HectorSaulify So you basically complaining cause jordan was too small/fragile.Thats what led to his injuries/he played reckless.Lebron dont have to worry about that cause he's more physically imposing.
@@damianpresha5155 Uhm... There's nothing to complain about bro! Jordan got 6 chips 😂😂😂!! Seems like you don't even know who he is. Just watch this video and show me clips where LeBron was hit the same way. At least Jordan didn't pretend he had a fractured hand after being swept in the finals 😂😂😂😂
@@HectorSaulify You cant hit lebron like that cause he's not as thin or small as Michael. And what they do to lebron is tackle him or yank on his arm to try and injure him.Dont pretend like you didnt see draymond try to blind lebron either.And his hand was hurt you must forgot he had a MRI GS was just a better team.One more thing to keep in mind Michael needed a great wing player to win.
why are people still even comparing MJ to Lebron ? MJ is on another level. almost every game that he played felt like going to the movies. it was unreal.
Oh well. Wilt is always better than Jordan. They changed the rules to make him less dominant and he still shit on the league.
ezekiel mohammed Wilt was 7 feet playing with 5’10” white boys. If you put bigs like Giannis, Embiid, or AD in that era and they would’ve dominated just the same
@@Bob-eo6uh You know Embiid sides with Wilt in the GOAT discussion? He admits on camera that he is the most athletic bigman. Wilt could play in any era. If we could make it to where wilt was born in 1990 he would be just as skilled as these other players. But that athleticism,strength,speed would still be present. Possibly could go down as the best athlete ever.
ezekiel mohammed Whyis he the GOAT? Because people say so? I have yet to see any video evidence of this athletic ability. Not even the “100 point game” can be seen. The only highlights I see are him dominating over guys half his size.
@@Bob-eo6uh as soon as you said video evidence your argument is trash. Many former nba players talk about wilt chamberlains dominance. Look at some interviews. 5'10 white boys lmao. So walt bellamy , willis reed, kareem abdul jabar, bill russel are all 5'10 white guys? And the league back then had about 8 teams which means hes playing the best bigs every single game as opposed to Jordan playing some scrub expansion teams that water the league down. Wilt is the best. If not he goes down as the greatest single athlete ever. Only sheer ignorance and lack of knowledge would disagree. Lay off the first take!!!
Jordan would average 40+ in today’s NBA game
@Blue Skeptic
I'm not saying basketball was better or worse. It was different.
But, Jordan struggled versus zones. The last time he legally played versus zones was when he was still in college. In the NBA, there was a illegal defense that prevented teams to zone freely.
When they got caught, they were penalized [one free throw awarded to the other teams + the other team still had the possession]
BTW, Lavine is averaging 23.8 PPG at the moment.
BTW2, not again! I was tired of these old heads criticizing basketball in the 1980s and 1990s... Yet, since 2000, the youngsters of the '80s/'90s are shitting on modern ballers... The cycle is now complete.
BTW3, every era I've seen (born in the 1970s) had pros and cons. I enjoy the talent of these kids since my youth!
BTW4, Jordan is great, but not perfect.
Easily
@@david.tousignant20, MJ struggled to score? Please... Not in today's zone defense. The college games he had was against hand-checking zones. Moving 3-2 or 2-3 screens in the NBA haven't prevented him to score 30+ a night and the modern zones in his Wizards years lead him to score 25 6 5 prior to injury. Heck he averaged 29 points in the last 10 games prior to the injury. ..
The dude averaged 37.1 and 35 from 86-88 while getting at least 200 steals and 100 blocks. No way he'd struggle to score in today's NBA. There's flourishing of 40+ poing games, 40 ppg too easy for MJ.. Well that's what Phil Jackson and some recently retired players said. (Ray Allen for example who played with LBJ). Ticky tacky fouls a plenty. That's what Allen said. MJ would have a field day even without shooting a single 3 point shot. Well, 3 of his 5 60+ point games, he didn't score any 3pt shot, in 2 of those 3 he didn't even attempt one shot beyond the arc.
@@lamefart
Yes, in college Jordan scored fewer points against zones.
Example? Versus Virginia, Jordan was held under 10 points and they were zoning most of the game.
In the NBA, zones were allowed legally in 2004. Jordan never played versus zones.
Versus the Knicks, the Hornets and the Pistons, games were slow as hell, because teams were zoning.
When they got caught, it was an illegal defense. Which resulted in free-throw + possession of the ball.
In one game, Bill Cartwright even stayed beyond the three point line all game long (ZZZ) & was pointing Bill Laimbeer who was zoning!
You don't remember, but it happened.
N.B. Jordan is great; one of the best in fact. But, like others he struggled and had shortcomings. That's why he became a legend. He learned from these mistakes.
I'm not saying Jordan wasn't great; I'm saying Jordan never competed against zones legally in the NBA (and he didn't wanted zones to be in the NBA during the 1990s)
@@david.tousignant20 last time I checked he was the highest scoring sophomore... College player of the year in 83 and 84.. It's college basketball anyway. We're talking about the MJ in NBA.. He was way different player under Dean Smith than when he let loose in the NBA..
When the zone defense was "legalized" amd hand-check rule fully implemented in 2004 did you see how AI, Kobe, LBJ amd Dirk's average suddenly climbed up? So no. Zone wouldn't slow MJ. Logic dictates that lesser perimeter players of today could score 30+ points how would MJ struggle?
When you said MJ never playerd against zone then everything you said after that was moot. He played against zone defense. Zone existed, even if it wasn't legal there were loopholes. How could 2-3 Bad Boys clog him everytime he went inside of it was always illegal to leave an opponent?
i still hand check, its easier to clamp people up
O.G. Shmurda same
i do it in games all the time. Sometimes when I have weak refs I get 4 or 5 fouls a game.
O.G. Shmurda I do it sometimes but refs call soft fouls
I don’t cause for me there’s no need
I just don’t defend. It’s so much easier now.
If handchecking comes back fans will then complain that players suck cause you will see lower final scores in the game now that players can actually defend
Becusse they do suck even a 5 year old can scor if none blocks him this is purely shit
Nah bro when defense is alive the competitiveness follows. It's more enjoyable to watch when they put their heart and soul to the game
@@kershenchandria1884 agreed,they don’t teach defense during practice nor are there real defense trainers like there are shooting trainers,the offense just got better
Late 80s to early 2000s was by far the toughest defensive era
The hand checking should be allowed again!
No doubt!!!Too easy for people to get into the lane these days!!!They need to work on those moving picks!!
without hand checking there would be no drama in the game. wes unseld won a nba championship because of hand checking. Wes was 6 ft 7 guarding a 7 ft 2 jabbar, he hand checked him of of his favorite spot on the post, which made jabbar lose his rhythm on his shot. I always thought players getting paid had to adapt to the challenges of their games. Going from a average of 94 pts a game to 97 pts a game without hand checking isn't much of a improvement, as for the ratings they would have gone up regardless. When baseball and the nfl went on strike, they're ratings went down, but came back up. true fans of sports always will watch a game no matter what.
Ajnn A. Abpi i ageed.
Mike S this is the problem I have with new basketball fans. You niggas to soft, like seriously watching nba games today kinda pissed me off a bit cause defending has been ignored sooo much.
reyian451 , it has not been ignored.
Warriors, Celtics, Jazz, Spurs are all great defensive teams. Kawhi, Klay, Draymond, AD are all great defensive players and recognized as such.
Maybe all you old school fans would rather watch hockey or something?
Kobe Bryant said that zones are harder than handchecking, he said *"I don't care if you handcheck me with three hands, if there is nobody behind you, you're not going to stop me, so the zone, I think, cripples some of the top scorers."*
Teams rarely play true zones. Theres more space than ever with the rule changes and emphasis on 3s
@@jasonturner6459 Hell no: th-cam.com/video/YM_eCnTNt1Q/w-d-xo.html
What about zones with handchecking
Also, zones are allowed now and scoring is up... Defensive 3 seconds and 3s. Also, you could still double team and camp in the paint back then. While zone was rarely called
@@Muchuzi Basically 2001-04 and you can compare scoring averages back then to now and before zone defense was allowed
I started watching the NBA back in 95. I stopped watching about four years ago. I can't stand today's NBA.
I stopped after Jordan left, it became unbearable.
Elaborate?
John-Sebastian Barrera Duncan ejected for smiling.
On the bench.
I watched a few older nba games and tbh it wasn't for me. I prefer the faster pace and the team ball today's nba has. Too much iso in the old days. Different strokes for different folks i guess.
In all fairness, players seem to be better shooters these days. Maybe it's a point of focus now. But if you watch 80s and 90s games, maybe even early 2000's, there are so many open shots missed. I can't tell if it's due to the increased defense of the playoffs, but there is a remarkable lack of accuracy in the jump shot from that time. I'm not talking about defended shots but completely open shots. That's one aspect that is better now.
Michael Jordan averaged 30ppg for a career while dealing with hand checking that’s the GOAT right there 🐐 y’all gotta stop with this Lebron BS , Lebron wouldn’t average 30 ppg for one season in Jordans era
and even if he did, where the rings gonna be at tho?
Brandon 2b
You can't compare eras!
People complained about the scoring. But, in the last two consecutive seasons, the league average was 105 PPG.
Well, from 1980 to 1993 the NBA league average was always over 105 PPG while shooting over 47% (despite being worse shooters in general and from the free-throw line).
I was born before MJ entered the league and it's always been "my generation was better"
In 1989, many old heads stated old school basketball was tougher and better...
but he didn't face zone defense. people always forget that.
Facts
Those who are arguing LeBron would average over 30 forget that he barely averaged over 30 in this era. And please dont throw Dominiques name out there like he was a scrub, dude was a beast
No hand checking allowed basically means your not allowed to play perimeter defense.
This is why those ridiculous jordan vs lebron debates piss me off! Lebron plays in a league without hand-checking and STILL routinely comes up short!
cyber6sapien Totally right. These NBA players now especially Steph Curry would not be able to strive like they are now
Its as if lebron is the only one who doesn't have to deal with handchecking rather than the entire league
He comes up short vs incredible teams that ALSO do not have to deal with handchecking
#MJstillthegoat #notbiasdebater
Cody Bower That's not how Lebron fans categorize Jordan's early post season failures. They just say "Jordan was 1-9 in the playoffs before Pippen" without any context. They never give specifics, like he was playing against the Celtics - a team with five future Hall of Famers. Or that the playoff first round was best out of five instead of best out of seven, so it was harder for bottom teams to win a game. Or that Jordan only played 22 games in his sophomore season because of a broken foot. No. They only want to get into specifics when it comes to arguing in Lebron's favor.
And incredible teams existed in every era. But the media likes to pretend that every thing that's happening now is happening for the first time!
Curry in the hand checking era would basically be his old man back in the hand checking era, a bench warming, 3-point specialist.
@THE Rattler .... Exactly. Chris Jackson, or Rauf, would get hot every now and again but it was far and few. He also had a nice handle. People also have to realize that it wouldn't be so easy to come into the lane because it was clogged with great centers and power forwards ready to put a foot in your ass!
Curry got handles and he is unique, What the fuck are y’all talkin about. Chris Jackson can’t shoot like Steph Curry so let’s end that conversation. Curry would still be great.
@@kobeturner5933 Them saying Curry wouldnt be great is a lie, but he's surely have a far harder time scoring just like everyone.
@Lisa Rose He would be good, not great. You just couldn't do back then what you can today, and his coach sure as hell wouldn't let him try it. Curry is a product of his time more than any other great ever to play the game, he would be a step below Petrovic back in the 90s.
JackNCoke2008 big fucking facts
Handchecking was a very important part of defense, the league is soft. You can clearly see the change, shooters have all the space in the world and players with decent ball handling can go wherever they want. All of this was done for ratings.. I think the NBA finals between the Spurs and the Pistons was the final nail in the coffin... which might be one of the worst Finals in NBA history from a marketing standpoint because both teams are defense oriented. NBA is a business, the.money- making aspect of the league is more important than the game itself.. apparently, a softer league is a more profitable league at this point in time.
Softer league for a softer generation
Dan R real talk the NBA took away defense just run and gun now shit sucks no dam strategy
Basketball sucks now. I’m 39. It was fun to watch both strong and tough defense and strong, talented and strategic minded offense. Implementing the movement of Mismatches was the key to scoring back in those days. That was intellectually fun to watch. I can watch this BS playground YMCA style of play for free elsewhere at the park. Except it’s not as great lol 👍
Mike S I disagree. Hand check is tough and manly. It's because of hand-checking, which allowed defenders to stick their muscled forearms into their man's chest to impede their progress towards the rim. A strong perimeter(not even mentioning low post guys like Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Russel, Garnett or Andre Jordan) defender with a nine foot plus hands like MJ, Dr J or better yet ten foot hands like Kawahi Leonard planted on the back or chest or thigh would be tuff on you as a offensive player. With that kind of advantage, the actual best way to prevent defenders from poking at the ball was to make them hand-check the back. Sorry it hurts the body after a period of time
What's wrong with a softer basketball game? In the old days, all you needed to do to stop a player was to be aggressive and put your body on him. Sure takes a lot of skill to do that. A fucking braindead ape can do that.. -_- Nowadays, everyone has a shot at the rim. No matter how big or small you are, if you can dribble the ball well, you will do well. The court should be a place where players can show off their hours of practice on the game, and not be instantly shut down by a 250 lb giant brainlessly pushing you.
Larry Bird would demolish today's sissy NBA defense.
He slow n alot of switching cuz the 3 pt but he might still a hypothetical
@@boatedboat9191 .... If you think him being slow would hinder him, you don't know ball! Learn some more before you comment!
Jorden Gonzalez dumbass dirk win an MVP... and bird was as good as shooter and better passer& rebounder.
Yep
Larry as a stretch 4 sheesh
the nba was smart to take hand checking out after michael jordan left he would have averaged 50 without it
Jakevious Perry, this trope about Jordan averaging 50 is utter nonsense. First of all, the creator of this video cherry picked film highlights to make old school basketball look far more brutal than it actually was. One could easily post a series of videos showing Steph being grabbed, held, pushed and abused with no whistle, just as one might show Jordan getting to the rim with little resistance. The stats prove that hand checking curbs did little to alter the balance of play. The collective offensive ratings of teams in Jordan's first decade are actually slightly higher than they have been for the past decade. New rules allow for zone defensive practices that allow teams to shade defenders toward stars to facilitate rim protection. Also, players today are flat out better - better shooters, better ballhandlers, better passers.
+1 phil, it's obvious but ppl are stupid. kawhi n many players handcheck
Kawhi plays hard nose defense without hand checking. just watch clips when got finals mvp against LeBron james.
th-cam.com/video/ZEgRp_7iDY8/w-d-xo.html
nice try dumbass
Sir Braxton, Kawhi is a bigger, taller, heavier, longer more skilled version of MJ. The NBA is better than it was in the 90s by a mile. Kawhi is Jordan's worse nightmare, and the old timers would want no part of players today. No disrespect to the legends. The game is supposed to get better. Its called progress.
They removed it and made it stricter because in 2004 Detroit Pistons won the championship by playing tough nose defense, but they are not selling tickets. The NBA is a business. In the 2000 era, players couldn't score a bucket if their lives depended on it, fans lose interest because of their lack of skill. Remember how the midrange has become a lost art? The NBA thought that if players score by volume, it would help sell tickets, and that's what they did. It helped scoring and inflated stats. But, if this generation played in the earlier era, they would have been average players with poor FG shooting.
It wasn’t just hand checking. Michael Jordan had to go thru a double triple team and than dunk on a huge big man center. Nobody in todays NBA can do this. That is why Jordan is the GOAT.
On streets I still handcheck, I don’t really do it in games, but sometimes I slip up and do it in a game.
The 2003-2004 Pistons consistently keeping teams below 70 points was probably why they completely removed it. lol
Glad to hear this. This is the first honest video about this. Game was twice as hard when MJ played.
Removing hand checking actually removed the beauty of the game for me.
The NBA is almost unwatchable. Everyone just jacks 3s - no creativity, no excitement, no physicality. Boooooring.
in Leflops soft era, MJ would score even more. In MJ’s tough era, leflop would score even less
hand checking rules doesnt applied in 90s because of mj, although they cant stop him from scoring even without that rules, we can imagine if hand check fouls is apply in the 90s then mj will average 40 ppg
Imagine Lbj with “illegal defense” or no zone defense 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
@@Schlanmann They still used zone defense. Want a bottomless list of evidence that they did?
Browns dropping 35 but you can't cope with that
@@chocolatethunder-iy9wv .... what
1994 rule change to protect the players from getting smacked or smacking each other. 2004 rule change to made scoring easier because the Spurs Nets Final was the least watched NBA Finals of all time ... because DEFENSE!! As good as Curry became he would've never get by defenders that easy especially when they can put a forearm on you to not allow him to do those awesome crossovers.
That wasn’t great defense. That was terrible offense.
NBA is definitely softer since the removal of hand checking.
MJ would be averaging 45pts per game today..
I keep hearing Kobe is the closest thing to MJ, and he only averaged 25pts per game today..
@@inthatmood9350 ... Kobe gets that title because his game mirrored Mike's to some extent. I like to throw this out for shits and grins: compare MJs rookie season numbers to Kobe's MVP season numbers and there you have it. Prime Kobe isn't even better than a rookie Jordan.
@@ericjordan6059 Not better than his rookie season sure, but Kobe's 35/5/4 season is right on Jordan's 2 best seasons he ever had in his career.
@@inthatmood9350 ..... And didn't that happen AFTER the rules changes? And what was Kobe's shooting percentage for that season as compared to Jordan's during the season he averaged 35ppg? What was Kobe averaging before the rules changes?
You have to put things in proper perspecitve my dude!
@@ericjordan6059 "Also, just because the rules are on the books, does not mean they don't get away with using those techniques". - These are your words in the other video.
I literally said the same thing about handchecking in this era, and you said, per the rule change in 2004, there's no more handchecking in the NBA. Again, the rule change was already in effect the 79-80 season.
You don't get to just pick and choose when players abide by the rules and when referees decide techniques exist lol.
The NBA may have adjusted the handchecking rule yet again in 2004, but just as you said, just because it's in the rule book, it doesn't mean players still don't use the techniques.
damn shows how much better MJ was compared to today's nba.
In the past 10 years Adam Silver has made so many rule changes to promote scoring and all these younger fans can't comprehend that this is why scoring has increased so much. A perfect example is lebron and jordan. In 2002-03 jordan averaged 20 ppg. He was scoring 25% of his teams points and the average ppg for teams across the NBA was 95 ppg. In 2022 lebron averaging 30 ppg was him scoring 25% of his teams points and the average team ppg across the NBA was 115 ppg. Team scoring is 20 pts higher in 2022-23 vs 2002-03. Adam Silver has openly stated he did everything possible to increase scoring. He's said it many times in interviews. If your make scoring easier it will appear like players today are better but it's not reality. They simply have rules now that promote offense. If you dropped a prime Jordan into today's game he'd average 40+ ppg.
In the 20th century, NBA players typically accumulated 200+ steals or 300+ blocks to lead the league in either category. In the new millennium, these numbers have only been reached thrice for the former and once for the latter. Hell, Alvin Robertson recorded 301 steals in '86 while Mark Eaton had 456 blocks in '85. Also, there hasn't been a DPOY guard in 22 years. Since its inception in '83, four guards won it in that decade alone (five if you count Sidney Moncrief twice) before the dominant centers of the 90s took over.
Your POINT...?
**facepalm**
His point: none of these bastards play defense today!
The rule changes are why there are several eras of NBA and why players from different eras can't really be compared because they each played under different rules. There is the early era pre-3 point line, the 'modern' NBA when the 3 point was installed post 1979, and the current era which came in around 2004 when hand checking was eliminated and there were no more big men camping in the lane. I miss the era of the big men and tough defense. The focus on perimeter play and the analytics stuff bores me to tears.
I'm an oldschool player in streetball and hand checking has always been part of my defense, but nowadays sometimes I get yelled, "foul" from some young players as if I were the clueless one.
You can play good defense without punching and swinging on ppl… that whole generation sucked… mj athletic ability is why he score but hand checking should have never been a thing…
@@blase2397you’re insane. Hand-checking is what made great players greater and ok players nobodies. It really allowed the defense to participate in the game. Now it's 85% offense.
Just imagine Magic, Bird and Jordan had to play in an era where physicality was allowed against guys like Rodman, Laimbeer, Barkley, Rick Mahorn, and Karl Malone. Just imagine how Curry and Harden would fare in that era.
Karl Malone and Bill Laimbeer were brutes!
they wouldn't even start
Harden would have a particularly hard time, pun intended, as he wouldnt be allowed to pull off his BS moves.
@@RM-xk6iu harden is stronger than 95 percent of shooting gaurds in the 90s how would he have a hard time
@@lenfer1607 First: hand check. That wouldnt allow him to get into the paint that easily or do that stepback move (which most of the time is traveling).
Second, even if he got past his defender he would get mauled in the paint all game and wouldnt get nowhere near as many foul calls as he does today.
This is of course, if you put him right there in the middle of the 80s and tries to play like he does now. Sure, he would adapt and then become a softer Vernon Maxwell
Lost in my the hand-checking discussion is that Jordan was allowed to hand-check too. He was allowed to get physical with opposing players which contributed to his great success as a defender.
Why does no one talk about this?
These days is show, not basketball..
Solid video and sorry for the long post but hope you read it. I think there is a lot more that goes into it than one rule change. I haven’t looked into at that much but here is what I found on a superficial review of bball reference over the last 72 seasons.
From 2000-2004, the nba had the lowest scoring on avg per team in nba history (excluding the 50s), ranking from 59-62 out of 72 seasons bottoming out with the 03-04 season at 93.4 ppg. Then the hand check rule was placed and yes, scoring did go up, but the 2004-05 (97.2 ppg) and 05-06 (97 ppg) seasons rank only slightly better at 54 and 55 out of 72 seasons in scoring avg.
There are also many seasons that rank worse than that or right around that since the hand check was eliminated including 2011-12 (96.3 ppg, lockout i know) at 57 of 72, 2012-13 (98.1 ppg) at 52 of 72, 2008 thru 2011 ranking between 45-47 of 72, 2014-15 ranking 44. Even last years 17-18 season only ranks 32nd of 72,.
At the highest ranked seasons of scoring avg there are the 60s, which have the top 11 scoring seasons of all time. After that is the 84-85 season ranked 12 (110.8 ppg), and multiple seasons in the 80s following.
I noticed a lull in scoring between 1996-2004 (most seasons around 94 ppg), lowest scoring avgs since the 50s, but before that from 1976-1993, it was consistently pretty high at around 108-111 ppg.
2012-15 avg around 100 ppg
Only the last 2 seasons has there been a major spike in scoring and it is similar to the averages for the seasons of the Bulls first 3 peat.
I just think there is a lot more that goes into how easy or difficult it is in the league to score other than hand checking including the zone defense rule, more advanced offenses, pace and space league, athletes from now and before, skills training and technology, dominant big men vs dominant perimeter players etc etc.
So hand checking was going to stop a guy who is 6’8 250. But it didn’t stop other great players back then?
The 3pt softie game is so boring...no wonder the ratings are down....the 90s games was the real deal. You needed real skills to win.
You’ve gotta be joking. John Stockton is more skilled than doncic? Or even Dinwiddie? Dumbass old nba fans wanting to romanticize the past
Nba became soft start on 2003-2004 season when they drafted LeFlop James
yessir! you don't even have to hand check Lebron
Fact
For a person as strong as lebron, it is just like an ant biting him or fly touching him.
Now have this scenario, lebron, 280lbs 6’9 guarding a player, as strong as he is, he can be a beast defender. He will thrive in whatever situation you throw at him cause he is an all around and most versatile player. There will be no fucking kobe nor fucking curry or even durant, if handchecking is allowed but there will always be lebron. How about that dumb fuck.
Hand-checking was still allowed in the post area that season and it was more physical than it is now.
Call me old, but I grew up on 80s basketball, and the games were so much more intense - and watchable. To me watching today's game is like watching a pre-game shoot-around. It took so much more creativity, toughness, and basketball IQ to score back then, and great defense made it a real two-way contest. Huge mistake to change all those rules. It's now like football without tackling.
I’ve been saying that Curry wouldn’t have happened in the days of hand checking. Thanks for the video
Curry is a hell of a shooter but his numbers would be a lot different if hand checking still existed.
That’s not true all u had to is surrounded him with a lot of goons like they did IT with the bad boy pistons.
IT was tough himself without the rest of that team
ruffdawgg yea I no I seen him fighting people to but win you got Lambir and Rodman n the rest of his team ready to go to war some people was jest scared to go back at IT..n curry not really that soft he been in the weight room these past couple of years you can tell n they kinda allow hand checking in the playoffs were they let things get more physical.
ruffdawgg hand checking doesn't matter that much because you can still get crossed even if you're handchecking
Also they added the rule of giving your opponent space to land. Bruce Bowen was doing it to better perimeter players and even reggie Miller a bit. It helped offensive shooters know they can shoot no matter what and have the space to land safely. Players like Dwayne wade exploited this to draw fouls
Hand checking allows defenders to feel the movement of the ball player. That is huge.
What kind of logic you have? The NBA made the league softer AND it necessarily mean the league has gotten worse! It has become a 3pt contest. And if they dunk, it's become a lousy rookie-sophomore all-star game.
While I miss the ability of the big man to shut down smaller quicker players I also love that bigs are now allowed to dribble and shoot from longer distances.
This goes both ways. Guard too took advanage of these rules on mis matches as well.
This is why MJ is 🐐.Imagine him playing without hand checking.
Damn I just noticed I'm those guys who hand checked and actually plays good defense on people. I thought its a normal thing Cuz its just natural for me to guard with touching players in the waist, but NEVER knew it was banned from NBA. I play defense like that with my homies, none of them even complained. Its just a normal thing I guess
Mrgoodkenneth that's what I be saying
Scoremessi Score Homie you don't hand check right away Bruh. When he gets closer to the basket, then you go tighter then hand check. Who Tf handchecks right away from 30 ft when you players can shake n bake. Oh Idk basketball? I appreciate your assumption and I hope your attitude makes you a great person. Thanks
Mrgoodkenneth it is normal to handcheck even to this day NBA players handchecks but not the obvious hanchecks where you grab a player or pushing him which is a foul in whatever Era, dude dont believe this Old Timers saying otherwise they are Bias. just go watch NBA classics and you'll see not this garbage cherrypicked clips which is obviously Bias
agree....most of these old guys are nostalgic, the game evolved and whats better is that coaching evolved too....it became more tactical, as supposed to...telling the players to play out of the norm braindead physicality
My friends do too, occasionally call strings of fouls. I just run it back and shut them down em down till the stop calling them
You left out a HUGE amount of context. In 90-91 season they added the flagrant foul rule. In the 01-02 season they made zone defense legal. So from 2001 - 2004 zone defense AND hand checking were legal, this 3 year span was pretty much the most defensive era in modern basketball and they wanted to make the game more offensively oriented WITHOUT getting rid of zone defense which they had just added. THAT’S WHY THEY GOT RID OF HAND CHECKING
Troll
@@nonamewillbegiven9989 Tf
Kobe didnt care about hand checking. Zone defense is what changed the game.
Sounded like hand checking was here to help the slower defender keep up with the offensive player in general
I was thinking the same that like in football a slower OL holding someone like Parsons
So, a 38 year old Jordan, after the zone change rules, but before hand checking had been essentially eliminated, was putting up 20+ a game. Doesn't that kinda settle the argument? If he could score on zone, with hand checking, many years removed from his prime, it's fair to say that if he had been in his prime, zone would not have had much effect on him.
His numbers dropped considerably after he tore his miniscus, but he was averaging close to 30 ppg as he was getting back to basketball shape prior to that accident.
He dropped 94 pts in back to back games against the zone, so the argument that zone defense would somehow hinder MJ is a fallacy. If it didn't stop an old MJ from scoring (it was old age and injuries which did), then the zone won't be stopping a prime MJ from burning the hoops each game night.
I miss hand checking, big men, perimeter players with hands on them, using skill to get their shot and bravery to get to the rim. Post up play, backing your man down. It’s a new game but not the beautiful game I once knew
All NBA games are like the All-Star game now.
I still handcheck
Me three
definitely
Soft 200%, I've seen 30 point half time leads disappear because there is no defense. You might say it's because of 3pt shooting is better, or is it that lack of physicality and added you're able to take 5 steps like harden does on step back 3.
NBA is a scoring league now. 200 points is just around the corner
This is a topic many Lebron fans hate to discuss because his generation and beyond is extremely lazy because of this exact rule change. I used to play ball with young guys who would yell: "You can't touch me! You can't put your hands on me slim!" And this is exactly how they come up playing...especially star players on teams in these AAU circles. They come up knowing this rule gives them freedom of movement. Back when Jordan played, hand checking actually forced players from a move they were comfortable with, so to play through it made you that much better. And all these young guys say is: "Lebron could have played and dominated back then." No he couldn't. If Lebron wants to run point like he does, a guy who lacks lateral movement, you mean to tell me he would still dominate in an era where players played defense so tough you have to develop, not only a great shot, but play with your back to the basket? No, Lebron would NOT be the player he is today...him nor a host of other NBA players. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook...you name it. ALL of their games would be seriously altered. I like these guys, but facts are facts. Defense alters games.
C B back when Jordan played he was being handchecked by mark Price, Craig elo, Spud Webb, and mugsy bogues, I mean idk how dude scored on any of them
Flare Epic Your sample of players suck. Shut up
C B bruh most guards in that era did. But yeah I am sure mark price could be all NBA and an all star like 4 times but LeBron kd and Steph aren't nearly as badass as them. LMFAO sure dude, whatever you say.
+Flare Epic - Out of a league of over 30 teams, you names THOSE guards as if Jordan was going head to head with THESE type players his entire career. Laughable at best.
C B what the hell does Jordan being guarded by them or facing them every game have to do with it. Mark price was a 4 time all star and former 1st all team NBA guy in that "tough league" but Steph couldn't have made it? The NBA was shit in the 90s man. Bj Armstrong was an all star star guard in the 90s man. GTFO here. Steph couldn't have made it in an NBA where mark price was consistently an all star and all NBA guy. Dude what are you on? John Stark's was a dang all star, but steph, kd, and LeBron would have been too frail? What world you live in?
If hand-checking existed in today's era Steph Curry would not be a superstar, and Kyrie Irving's Razzle Dazzle would take a big hit too, LeBron wouldn't be what he is today a locomotive straight to the basket with no moves. Jordan thrived in that era because of his footwork, strength, killer mentality (can't be soft), and skill. Kobe would definitely thrive in the hand checking era because of his ability to hit the toughest shots footwork and skill
big dogger perfectly said. I think everyone who knows basketball can agree. Steph would've of not been the superstars he is now. No way. Tyler ullis, Devin Booker, James Harden KD etc. Russell Westbrook probably would've done fine tho in that era.
Hand Checking prevents people from driving to the bucket and not shooting from half court! Steph would still be a superstar. You still get fouled if you touch the player when they are shooting.
absurd and completely moronic in every sense.
Steph would be less effective because he likes to fake drive, step back, and pull up. Hand-checking/arm bar would oftentimes hinder his mobility and balance so his shots wouldn't always be as clean. Wht a lot of people fail to realize, hand checking/arm bar depletes your energy. Fighting them would weaken your ability to keep chucking up long range shots, as well as free throw shooting.
Lebron James plays a position which is easier for him to do what he does (listed as small forward but is actually a point forward). In that time, he would be listed as a power forward so he'd be guarded by players who are just as big and strong as he. His game would suffer as his back-to-the-basket game is mediocre and his half court set play is as well.
Steph gets handchecked nightly. Apparently nobody is actually watching. Handchecking fouls were still whistled fouls in the 90s, apparently everyone has forgotten that too.
I keep hearing about hand checking regarding Jordan, but you NEVER show any footage of Jordan actybeing hand checked. I remember watching Jordan play and he usually threw a hissy fit if you touch him.
Even regular people that are good but not pros can thrive playing under rules like this. The NBA became a marketing league, for crying out loud, check the jerseys player wear and the tons of logos they have on! There's no rivalry, no competition, just collect a paycheck and sit out a few games when not feeling like playing because I'm tired. Those are the new "superstars".
Love how bronsexuals think lebron is the goat. He plays in a MUCH easier era than mj did.
Well, in a era with hand checking, LeBron would dominate even more. There wouldn't be no Stephen Curry etc...
Wat 💯💯💯💯💯💯💯👌🏾👌🏾
Big facts no cap
Ob 1 how so? Irving is way quicker than curry he can get past ppl curry is always looking to shoot with no pressure from 100 ft away lol
With Bron Bron's mentality, he would've gotten whipped by the Bad Boy Pistons.
Jordan effect the game when hes in the NBA and also out of NBA. That's Jordan's impact on nba
They should make a modified hand checking rule something like you can only hand check for 6 seconds max or something
I'm confused why handchecking was ever there in the first place... seems really bizarre to allow the defender to push around the dribbler like that.
It wasn't play like that. The hand checking was more to keep track of the body of your opponent, and making it easier to check the ball, since your hands were closer to the hand's dribbler. The extreme examples you see it the video, like Rodman pushing Jordan on the floor are just that, extreme examples. They would normally get you a foul. To be honest, I stopped playing a long time ago, in the end of the 90's, and stop watching games at that time too. I did not know that the hand checking rules was changed at all. For me, it does not make any sense, because you are killing all sort of defensive plays, and defensive strategies. Anyway, just my 2 cents on the subject! ;)
Because it made the small fast players ineffective. It also made sure no one can shoot a easy 3. Hand checking out side the perimeter will make sure more than half of the 3 points in todays game won't happen . Having a hand to the body keeps the body side ways to the rim. How are you going to get a shot?
Softer than cotton candy!
Nba got soft when they added a illegal defense rule to help jordan be more successful
Sooooo that’s why it’s easy for Lebron and everyone get easy baskets.
The reason this rule was put in place was to keep my 2004 Pistons from winning multiple championships smh 🤦🏻♂️
Especially after they exposed Kobe for what he was.. a slower guy who took shots off rhythm and shot 35% fg.
And Knicks also
nope they wouldve won in 05 if they had some offense
@@lenfer1607 Nope, worse officiating I ever seen.
David Stern was a notorious Piston hater everyone knows it.
No one plays defense and everyone wants to play with each other
You also gotta mention how zone defense was introduced, that made it harder on the star players because previously they were able to just beat their man one on one.
Yeah no one in the comments talking about zone. Some rules make it easier and some rules make it harder. Now you can zone a ball handler even if you cant hand check them. Also in MJs era you couldn’t double a player without the ball. Now you can load up on a guy and deny him if you anticipate he’s gonna get the ball.
@@willcarlton3906 Exactly so even though the physicality may have lessened, the intensity didn't, and if anything it potentially became more difficult to deal with zone since the 2000s is known for being an inefficient era.
@@jamesvillar8989 Yep. And I do think Jordan is the GOAT but not by a landslide like some of his fans think. Around 2005 when Kobe played on those really mediocre teams, defenders used to double up Kobe BEFORE he even touched the ball effectively freezing him out of a possession. That was illegal D in MJ’s era. Jordan, Iverson, T-Mac, Paul Pierce, etc. are on record for saying how frustrating zone is to play against and how they’d rather face hand checking than zone. Just goes to show you can’t blindly trust the popular narratives that old heads like to create.
@@willcarlton3906 couldn’t agree more
@@willcarlton3906 yeah I also see ridiculous comments like mj would average 60, lebron would just be a good player in that era, curry would be a bench warmer. These guys don't understand that there are certain benefits these guys would receive in that era . Also curry and lebron get hand checked from time to time and fouls won't be called. I mean if lebron is going to hand check how many people will get past him . And defense was played man to man then and double teaming wasn't allowed off ball. The main strategy of stopping curry these days is doubling or triple teaming him off ball which was illegal back then . No matter how tough you play defense ,hand check him ,curry can get past atleast 1 defender. Also not to mention Curry's defense would improve too , also he is good at steals wouldn't hand checking make it easier ?
This was actually a very informative vid. After watching it i believe it is softer it basically made the big man irrelevant for some time now and still sorta kinda does.
1:15 to skip all the fluff
Basketball has turned into a free throw shooting contest and boring
definitely do an in depth video on how the hand check devoid league is different from the league of old!
so basically in the 90s era you can almost hug a player so that he cant drive to the basket or make some space for a jumpshot butbin todays era its almost like your watching a street ball
It did got soft but more ball movement and attack from the arc. Being soft doesn’t necessarily mean it’s boring. I miss 80-90’s but what it is is what it is.
Dudes be wide open taking shots that’s why you got all these players dropping points Defense Gotten weaker
From a business standpoint I can totally see why they would get rid of handchecking. A good defense is boring to watch because nothing happens. atching the Warriors get in their groove and knock down 3 after 3 is just amazing to watch. But as a player, I'm not the fastest laterally so a handcheck or a forearm shiv helps me even the playing field when I'm going against someone smaller and faster than me.
Lol honestly Jordan, Bird, KAJ would be a staving 50 a game. This was Litterally the only way to guard them.
agree.....and they would have to be able to defend on the other side of the court too....given that the era today is very offensive oriented, defense would be taxing on their bodies...if they want to maintain these 50 pt outputs
The delusional statements made by fanboys. Lol
Why is it only basketball that clings to the past? All other sports respect the new level of skill.
Matthew Scully
They were already unstoppable when this rule was put in place and they took the rule away when MJ left
Then why did this "new level of skill" necessitate softer rules?
Mike and Bird wouldn't need to score that much. And for people who watched them, they'd know that leaving them open for shots will kill you and they played top notch defense. Jordan wasn't on the all defensive team 9 times and DPOY once for nothing while still carrying the offensive load.
Gotta learn more about these players.
I grew up watching the REAL NBA AND WITNESS THE CHANGE YES ITS SOFT
Not only has the hand checking been removed, but now it's ok for the offensive player to hand check the defender. Watch the the games and see what I mean. As the guy dribbles, he also puts out his arm to block out the defender to avoid having the ball taken. It's almost like the NFL definition of a straight arm. This too helps the offensive player thrive. In today's NBA, the defender is at a huge disadvantage.
The moving screens to free the shooter along with 4-5 steps moving to the unprotected rim is making guys like Lebro James legendary players
I think sports in general have gotten softer, but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing, because it's improved the safety of the players, and made the league more exciting.
is not more exciting, period.
Buddy the risk to your body WAS THE EXCITEMENT. You’re clearly not an athlete cuz you wouldn’t say people going 80% is better than when people were forced to go 120% in the effort to FIGURE OUT HOW TO WIN. Watching that real time on the spot growth was fascinating. Now these new players are spoon fed STATS. Like with everything else in America the heart has been sapped.
I know you’re not a competitor and more of a voyeur.
MJ would score 80 100 per game with no hand checking
That isn't a question , it's a statement .
The players/teams of the 80s and 90s were far superior than today's pillow ballers .
Ball today is now ridiculously unwatchable
and KD said Kyrie is a better ball handler than AI, no disrespect to Kyrie cuz I like him but throw him back in the 90s and early 2000s and see how he does all these dribbles
Leon Yu I agree with you. Hand checking changes everything. I do believe Kyrie got more moves and stylistic movement in how he plays but would struggle in that older era.
It’s this simple rule that puts MJ above LBJ in the GOAT conversation every time.....
robncasey1216 automatically. Everyone knows that. Or at least the adults do.
Mirror Mirror yeah and it's lebrons fault so nobody can be the goat in this era so dumb this people
But to the Lakers defence of 2004, Kobe was not good at all in the 2004 series. He even admitted that during his sit-down with Shaq that the 2004 finals was on him.
If I’ve learned anything from playing basketball over the years it’s that if the guy on you is hand checking, he can’t guard you
It was part of the game. So everyone would try to exploit it where it favors them. You don’t have to be a sorry player to hand check. No rule means no foul so use it to your advantage