How the NBA continues to make scoring easier
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2022
- Why are offenses exploding lately? Which era was the most physical? And how have the rules evolved over the years to help offensive players? This detailed film study spans NBA history to explain the evolution of the rules - officially and unofficially - that have led the game to where it is today, and helped make Pace and Space the friendliest offensive era in league history.
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Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
www.pbpstats.com @bballport
www.basketball-reference.com
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Music by Nemsis, Hair fairlight and Dan Henig
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The absolute joy those refs had spinning their arms and skipping to call travels has me in stitches
Wish the refs today were that enthusiastic
the joey crawford block call is the greates ref moment of all time
@@brickathon7322 they are, but in regards to giving out technical fouls instead
The real beautiful game
shii those guys did look too joyful
People really disrespect older eras without understanding the rules. They had to dribble like that. They couldn’t run a zone. They couldn’t set a hard screen. They couldn’t throw their bodies into people on the drive or in the post. They weren’t bad years ago. They were playing an almost entirely different sport.
Yuh like how JJ Redick disrespect Bob Cousy
They're still better, it's not disrespectful, in fact it's because of those guys that paved the way that made the players what they are today
I was literally about to type this whole thing. Some act like humans in the 60s were Neanderthals. Today's players would play the same as the 60s players did if they played back then. Thinking they're going to go back to 1960 and show em. Yea, show em how to get 30 travels 15 offensive fouls lol. Oh and give 60s players today's modern sports science, nutrition, facilities, travel, recovery, etc. Let them watch the last 60 years of videotape and then have a jump ball.....
@@donothesitate1198 They are better overall today, but that’s largely due to training methods and innovations in the game. I’m sure if you took someone like Oscar Robertson out of the 60s and let them grow up with modern training and such, they would at minimum still be a solid NBA player.
@@deathbackwards7850 definitely
Seeing the way fouls were called in the 1960s makes it that much more impressive that Chamberlain never fouled out of a game.
he was smarter than everyone else. the more we know the more amazing how chamberlain was... i put them 1a, 1b, 1c MJ, Wilt, Kobe, and number 2 is Bill Russell. Wilt played the way he did and did not join any racial cause, that is because he is so poor he could not afford to loose the benefit of having accepted by the white people. It was an easy choice, he avoid confrontation as much as possible, even though he got physically beaten from left to right... thats how mentally strong wilt was.
Allen Dixon note
Imagine the stat lines he’d have put up if he could have really used his strength like Shaq was able to.
@@jamiegaskins3687 He actually wanted to play the game this way because he honored the game the way it was created.
Word is that he just stopped contesting shots when in remote foul trouble.
This is how comparing eras is supposed to be. Putting things into proper perspective, great video!
And, yet today’s NBA fans would ignore this to spin their own narrative.
@@davonbenson4361we done with the 90s
1:59 The evolution of carrying
4:40 The evolution of traveling
8:02 The evolution of continuation
10:21 The evolution of initiating contact
15:42 The evolution of the off-arm foul
18:17 The evolution of physical play
20:57 The evolution of flopping
22:03 The evolution of the leg kick
22:45 The evolution of shooting fouls
25:50 The evolution of screens
thank you
@@SolaceMcfly Identical to my outline, except you have a much friendlier term for the 22:45 section.
@@ThinkingBasketball now I gotta know. What was it?
@@Bobbyboo2269 “The evolution of pu**y foul calls”
@@ThinkingBasketball as someone that has been watching basketball, I noticed most of these evolutions but didn’t experience pre 1990 so it was nice to see all of this. I remember Reggie Miller using the leg kick frequently in the 90’s but only in the past decade or so did become the norm. I remember Manu perfection that flop and slowly became the norm.
1. One time when Jerry West was asked the biggest change as he's gone from player to the game today, and he said, "They stopped calling carrying." 2. It's interesting how certain individuals are associated with certain rule changes very heavily. Iverson really took carrying into the new generation. Harden pushed several rules to the breaking point: arm pushing off, initiating contact with the arm or the ball; the step back travel, flailing the head and arms...
James Harden has his own Set of Rules in the NBA …. 👀. 🏀
@@constablekennedy7705 you dont know ball
True, AI’s cross when he first started pulling it out in the league was controversial as some refs call carry because of how much slower the actual cross is compared to those of the past like Tim Hardaway Sr. who at his peak was revered for his crossover because his cross was a snap. Then we have James Harden who completely turned the rulebook on its head with his step-step back which legends even call a travel, it’s not player hating like everyone seems to think but if MJ in 1996 were to use that move, he would be called for a travel.
I find it funny they let AI get away with it since they try to censor so many things about him
Umm Iverson crossover got called repeatedly in his rookie season which is why after 98 he switched his handle up as far as using his off hand as a shield and using more triple threat jab steps. Trust and believe the refs was always on his ass 💯
This video changed my perspective on basketball from the 80s and earlier. Those guys had a whole lot of rules limiting their abilities. Prior to this I thought they just didn’t have the skill
Hopefully more fans look at this video objectively and come to the same conclusion. It is entirely possible to think this era of players is better while still respecting players from the past and recognizing the differences in the way the style of play and officiating has changed over the years, but way too many younger fans don't seem to see it that way.
I would put it differently - it's the current players who lack the skills
Agreed. They never had the opportunity to enhance their ball handling and player IQ because of the huge limitations on what they were allowed to do. It’s impossible for any players in the 60s-80s to have handling like Kyrie Irving or Allen Iverson because it would be a travel every single time.
@@kdub3288 Yup, and if today's players were time traveled to back then they would turn the ball over almost every time they touched it because of the rules were enforced.
Yeah that’s why the “plumbers” And “firefighters” shit is stupid as hell.
This video is better than anything I've ever seen in mainstream sports media. Fantastic work. Bravo.
The amount of research in this video is so rare in TH-camrs nowadays. Everyone is all about hot takes with no source to back it up.
This was one of the best basketball videos I’ve seen in my entire life. I honestly hate how the game is called now. Good defense is an art that’s been punished in the name of entertainment.
except NBA basketball is not entertaining anymore....NBA shot itself in the foot in every way imaginable.
@@peterjabattack1 The NBA is more of an entertainment product than a sport!
I don't watch today. I watch NBA on TNT because of the rules and nonsense
L takes
For real. It's worse that modern fans just point to everyone's stats today and how they're better than all the players from every era, when it's just ridiculously easy to score and offense is catered to in every way.
This video does a great job of highlighting why the great defenders of today's NBA should be given more respect, because of how much harder defense is now with all of the rule interpretations that have changed to benefit the offense. The defenders of the 80s and 90s had tools like hand checks at their disposal and got way more love from the refs.
Facts, by old head logic you can't be considered an all time great defender if you played before the 2000s. It was so much easier to defend.
At the same time, we can call all those offensive Players overrated, because baskets are literally handed to them..
@@Jmiedawg actually they always say defense was harder to go against. Not harder to play.
Agreed, guys l8ke Gobert and Smart are near top 10 level defenders, but don't get spoken about that way.
@@linkonedgell894 Smart is a huge flopper and gambles way too much, Jrue Holiday is a way better defender. Smart only won dpoy because the Celtics had the no1 defense and their best defensive player (RW3) was hurt so they had to give to someone else
im a defensive-minded player in every sport i play, nothing makes me quite as angry as an offensive player running into a defensive player and getting no punishment or even getting rewarded
Yeah, just as a regular fan, that is one of the things that makes me actually mad.
Amen. It's disgusting to me
yea ok, for sure i agree. but what about a play where a guy takes the free lane to the basket and the moment the defender sees it, starts side stepping and the exact moment he puts his two feet down (while many times still moving his upper body towards him) they collide and that's an offensive call? (and the guys doin' it are usually shorter guys, that can't meet them at the rim)
@@georgemarco11 that’s an interesting question ask considering that’s the only way to actually get an offensive foul called
@@christophercrane2323 glad to know you read the manual. next step, try to play a little or watch some games, and not only your teams...find some time, you may like it
This is an eye opener for me. It reminded me when Wilt Chamberlain made a comment about how shaq would do back in their era and i believe he said "not so much". I'm starting to believe that response from him right there wasn't as crazy after all.
There's also the fact that Shaq physically moving Wilt isn't something I could ever see happening without flagrant fouls involved.
Shaq would still go crazy. He just wouldnt assault people like he did. Just like Wilt would just beat the shit out of everyone, if he played in the 90s.
Dont underestimate how athletic Shaq was and how smart he is. He just got a little too comfortable after winning a lot.
Shaq would probably foul out in the first quarter.
This video does a good job elaborating on how those "plumbers" were required to have a completely different skill set than current day players have. Puts into perspective how it is kinda likely that most nba players could probably see the same levels of success regardless of era, given that they could adjust to the vastly different rule sets. Though a lot of players benefit from the rules of their respective eras. Kyrie wouldn't be Uncle Drew in 1970, Jerry West would probably still be pretty damn good in 2022, Embiid would probably still be a monster in the 90s.
Jerry West was shooting near 50%fg as a perimeter player with no 3s. He would be an elite shooter. At age 35 they finally recorded steals and he was 2nd despite injuries. He would likely be a top 5 player in 2022. But the 50’s players did have a lot of far less athletic players. The 60’s is really where the taken began to form.
Their jumpers still looked awful back then and that has nothing to do with the rules lmao
@@ASMRblack the way a jumper looks doesn’t really matter. That’s just aesthetics.
@@ASMRblack It has everything to do with information and training. Steph Curry would be shooting underhanded if he were the first human to pick up a basketball. If the guys from the 60's were playing today they would have learned from modern coaches and their shots would look like modern shots. That's why the comparisons are so stupid.
Embiid in his current build would be too slow for the 90s, look at all agile those 90s hof big men are.
The NBA absolutely has to put an end to the offense initiating contact and getting shooting fouls, in all its forms, It makes the games so much less fun and encourages antics instead of skill
Giannis should be called more on those bs drives were he lowers is shoulder and completely destroy the defender like it’s football
@@GoulaLegamer The reason he can do this is because most defenders cannot get in front of him in time due to his length/quicness. Once you appreciate this, you'll understand these non-calls better.
NBA all time popular because of these rule changes. teams going from half a billion valuation to 2 billion. All the antics ARE skill, because the referee's mind is part of the court. Get into their head and flop for an offensive? Of course. Kerr and Draymond are wizards at getting the refs to see the game their way, as is LeBron.
Who were the biggest beneficiaries of the new Harden rules?
Draymond Green, and Andrew Wiggins. Ask Luka, or Tatum, or Jokic. or Ja.
Unintended consequences always follow simple sounding rule changes.
@@maharajahdann doesn’t make sense ? U would know if u played basketball that when u lower u shoulder is in fact when u aren’t quick enough to go past the defender but now people be flopping all over the place because they’re sick of getting destroyed like they play in the nfl sum of those plays doesn’t look like basketball even if I love giannis in the nba if u don’t fall on the ground it Nevers get called an offensive which is complete bs ...
Well put.
Super important vid. I hope the NBA sees it.
A huge reason i drifted away from watching NBA a few years ago was how the refs were limiting defenders and rewarding offensive players for initiating contact.
I'm a big believer that in order to see greatness on the offensive end then you need to create clear limitations on them so that their creativity can manuever around it.
Players play to the competition, but if they know they can get bailed out rather than risk doing something amazing/creative then of course they're gonna choose the bail out option.
Back in the 90's and 2000s scorers had to really slink their way around defenders to score, and it resulted in cool acrobatic manuevers in traffic.
Right now offensive players can just initiate contact and bait the refs. It's uncreative and boring. It's also a huge grey area to where refs could control the games by choosing which way a 50/50 call goes.
It's a bit better now than it was a year or 2 ago but it still needs to improve
In conclusion, get off my lawn!
Great point
Thats why football works a little bit better, there is less rules and the few that exist are clearer, the only weird things happens when the reff misjudges a play or just plain benefit another team, there is yellow cards and red cards and thats it
Today's NBA Is terrible. Been watching since 1975, can't even watch a full game anymore.
yeah.. indeed.. boring is the right word to describe today NBA, no offense manuvers who wow'd us anymore. no defense whatsoever. simple pass then hitting three's and hope that will go in. there's a reason why past 5 years NBA had lowest rating compare to late 80s 90s 00s.
@@kenturoni Where are you getting your ratings data? Pretty sure the NBA ratings have been higher than ever the past 5 years...
A few minutes in I realised this video perfectly articulates what I find so difficult about watching modern basketball these days. Also makes you realise why many team USA players struggle in international competition
thats why i only watch giannis
But they still won
Basketball today is almost nothing like what I grew up with. I was born in 82 so the 90s and early 2ks were when I played and watched basketball religiously. I can't even bring myself to watch games anymore and haven't really for at least the last 5 or 6 years. I'm not trying to hate on basketball now and days but to me it's just not even close to the same game anymore. I'm glad people still enjoy it but it's just not for me anymore.
Struggle? By winning it every four years? 😂
@@whayes8084 other than KD, many players couldnt even perform as good as they would in the NBA today because of the rules.
The "look how physical Walt Bellamy is being" clip is one of the most hilarious basketball clips I have ever seen
There are other clips that show more physical play, but it's usually off the ball. On the ball, it was a lot smarter to give the offensive player a bit of space and anticipate his movements so you can beat him to his spot. Lots of offensive fouls were drawn this way. Bellamy doing that surrendered that possibility.
The ruggedness of the 60s was more due to A) being expected to play through all but the worst injuries and B) the complete lack of flagrant fouls. So if the defense felt they had to fouls you or you score, there was no reason to not just clobber you. You can find clips of just that being done to guys like Chamberlain, West, Bellamy, etc.
😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I think the NBA really needs to look at how the NHL treats embellishment. Sure it is often a subjective ruling, but the penalty being the other team getting a powerplay and possibly a fine sure makes it feel like I see way less flopping when I am watching hockey, especially in the playoffs when a single powerplay is enough to change the outcome of a game or series. I don't think its possible to make a concrete, objective rule against flopping in basketball, but I think a fine solution is making the penalty way harsher than it needs to be to discourage players even thinking about flopping.
They tried to do that by fining players for flopping
@@reidb6327 I think they could apply an additional personal foul to the play for the flop or even make it a technical if it is a crazy flop. Something has to be done about flopping and ref baiting though because it’s getting out of control lol.
I think players should be allowed to embellish but let the victimized player take advantage. Like if an off nisve player embellishes a drive, let them fall and look crazy while the defensive player gathers the ball.
@@deathcare hmm... and given that there are thousands of commercial breaks, they could take their time off camera to assess the foul then and penalize or reward the teams. That could work.
@@deathcare Agree, a technical and possession can shift a game and/or a series just like you say. Make it affect the outcome of the game
This is really eye opening. Every era is so unique and it's pointless to compare. Also, defenders in today's game are just at the mercy of everything and everyone
the game is so bad that even with more population and market they have only half the view than in mj time ...
@@jessicalacasse6205 nba was worth $11B in 1998, now its worth $60B, nba making money wether u think its bad or not. wether u watch or not.
@@jessicalacasse6205tell me you have no idea what you’re talking about without telling me you have no idea what you’re talking about… 🤦♂️
@@RobinXlone called inflation ,they just jacked the price of thing like ticket and tv contract and most those tv contractor are losing money now why the league want an ap
@@jessicalacasse6205 no the nba was worth $6B in 1998, i adjusted for inflation when i said $11B because i already knew a dumbass would try and say that stupid inflation shit
This is why I think this era of offensive talent is overrated and this era of defensive talent is underrated
but then you’re also calling the defense in the offensive talent era underrated
todays era of defense is hella underrated i agree
@@HogEnjoyerhow about quit putting words in peoples mouths lmao
This era has defense?
@@MrREAPERsz nope but it’s the rules fault be the players imo. Players are trying to play defense with rules that set them at a disadvantage. You’ll foul out in the first quarter trying to really defend with how the rules are set up
The main thing about offensive fouls now that bothers me is that it is extremely clear they’re only gonna call it if you fall. You have to make that choice. You’d get way less flopping if the refs were willing to call an offensive foul
case in point: celtics vs bucks this playoffs with giannis throwing himself at the defender and players falling over in order to get an offensive foul called
10:45 this is why Wilt played so gently. Imagine if he was allowed to actually use his brute strength to his advantage
He lead the league in FG% 10 times shooting fadeaway jumpers… Before Dirk was even born might I add
I saw several games of wilt from the 70’s. In the more modern game, he would be very similar to Shaq. Wilt was more awkward with the ball and didn’t have the footwork that Shaq had but wilt can jump higher and had a really good finger roll. Like Shaq, Wilt was bad from mid range and free throws but he was a great shot blocker with his length and size and high jump. Russel was better defensive because Wilt like Shaq lacked great lateral movement but Bill Russel on defense moved like a modern day Giannis.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson Wilt wasn't a bad midrange shooter. 60% of his attempts were jumpshots. He had a very successful fadeaway Jumper (aka fallback jumper bank shot).
@@spaltersar I’ve gone through and seen several games. Never once saw him make a shot more than 8ft. And I counted his shots on two games and found 2/3 of his shots were layups or dunks almost all from getting fed the ball right by the hoop (ie he didn’t get the ball further out and work to create the shot). About 1/3 were fadeaway from usually 4-7 ft out.
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson 70s footage, right? better watch 60s footage, when he was in his prime and had another role than he had in Lakers team.
I think this video justifies many people saying the 90's NBA was the best, and it's not just some geezer nostalgia. The era hit the sweet spot of allowing physicality and entertaining basketball.
Yes, global viewership shows. Better tech and easier access nowadays and nba viewership has been diving, basketball without defence is boring
You also had MJ. That helped a TON.
@@jonwhispers Scripted
Yes, and they hadn’t completely tossed the rule book aside for superstars at that point. Now, rules only matter for the role players and bench guys.
Agreed. Balanced blend of athleticism, physicality and calls. Today's refereeing is ridiculously soft. 80's and back were too strict.
It is insane to think that at one point in the history of the NBA, the iconic Lebron block against GSW would've been illegal. Crazy to think how much the rules have changed!
The layup he blocked was probably a travel under the same rules
I watched it happen live and this was the best breakdown I've seen of the way the game's rule enforcement has changed over the years. Excellent work.
I agree. This is an excellent overview of the changes in officiating, and I enjoyed it very much. With respect to the goaltending call for pins against the backboard, that was a college rule well into the 1980s - Ewing as a Hoya, for instance.
This is why I hate it so much when people criticize old players for not having handles. "Bob Cousy was a joke. He could barely even dribble. In today's game he would be the worst dribbler in the league." and the like. Modern day fancy dribbles were all illegal, so of course they never did them!
Also, I am really impressed with NBA defenders that can contain star players despite all the ridiculous "defensive fouls" that can be called.
If LeBron James played in 1957, he'd be called for a travel every time. The 50s and 60s may have had these so-called "electricians and farmers", but I doubt any modern player could cope with the strictness of the rules of the day. Hell, Jerry Sichting, a role player from the 80s Celtics dynasty, had a cleaner dribble technique than James Harden.
they also criticize them dribbling mostly with the right hand, without realizing that it was just much harder to switch hands without carrying the ball
@@Sizdothyx cleaner technique than James harden ? Just stop it 😆😆😆😆😆😆🤡
Dont see why you are disgusted by the players its not like they are meant to have some moral obligation to play "the right way".
Their goal is to help their team win, its the officiating that needs to change
@@lun4766 While I agree that the officiating is the biggest problem for rewarding certain behavior, that isn't the only issue. The players that exploit bad rules don't stop there, they often also try to trick the refs into making the wrong call on purpose. When they deceive the referees by flopping to make legal contact (or even non contact) seem illegal to bait a foul that is on their heads.
Lying can give you an advantage in most games, but it degrades the game. Referees are not omniscient so they will always be susceptible to deception. At a certain point, sportsmanship is necessary.
I remember playing in the late 90's with some friends in Argentina, in a little town where they would still stick to the old rules of basketball. I remember I did a spin-move once and everyone went crazy saying that was such a huge travel LOL
I do think Wilt was a better all around athlete.
spin moves often are just blatent travels...
“The difference between you and me is that they had to change the rules for me so I couldn't dominate. They changed the rules so that you could.” - Wilt Chamberlain to Michael Jordan. Really puts into greater perspective how nuts Wilt's records are when the rules have been changed so much since he played to benefit scoring.
MJ was averaging 36pts when the PISTONS were on their PEAK.
To say that the NBA made it easier for MJ to score was just a MYTH.
How the heck did MJ scoring average went down when the rules were changed? Lol
@@dylanlanzuela7305 Try watching the video.
So in Wilts opinion the rules should have been changed stop Russell and the Celtics 😂
@@n.jigmelhendup5495 Nah, Wilt always considered himself the best player in those championships that he lost. The Celtics were just too loaded. That's why he finally came to the Lakers to win one.
@Dylan Lanzuela 80 defense was actually trash 🗑, the nineties was better but it was hampered by illegal defense rules, 2000s was the best. TOM THIBODAUX, until pace and space and Splash BROs, do schemes and players skill set got better. In the nineties the 3pt line was shortened.
A real eye-opening video. Defenders definitely need more love in today's game. It's like, you can do everything perfectly, make position, be straight up, and you're still going to get called for some technical interpretation. So many times after a defensive foul is called, I find myself asking what else the poor defender was supposed to have been doing. Also, I do wish the NBA refs were a little stricter on travels and carries, but overall I do prefer the ability to at least dribble from the side of the ball in today's game. They really should crack down on players getting too far under the ball, though. I like that stuff in street ball, but not when I'm watching pro ball.
I feel especially bad for the guys on an island out on the perimeter, then some giant comes over who's allowed to basically block you like a lineman in football. No wonder so much of the game now is just hunting switches.
What you are describing is the sweet spot of the 80s to early 2000s it’s gone and we will probably never get it back. Why ppl who have been watching the game forever could care less about the game now. It’s a shooting contest. Im sure certain players are doing there best to play defense but the officials are making its hopeless. Better to out score
It’s harder to play defense today and because the game moves so much and less opportunities for an individual defender to shine, individual defense isn’t as impactful as it was 20-50 years ago. But team defense today is far more important than ever .. the coaches are having to come up with far more complex defensive schemes than ever.
@@anthonyurso9366 "Why ppl who have been watching the game forever could care less about the game now."
Describes me perfectly. I used to be a huge fan, but haven't watched a game in years. (I watch bits of video here and there, but the game has virtually nothing to do with the game I played and cared about.)
They don't even have to change defense, just fix the carrying and defense will be easier
Bro just called Bill Walton “some redhead”. Actually made me 😂😂
I got so confused i had to look at the jersey
Great video. Today’s game has pretty much devolved into street ball. Palming the ball, traveling, and no offensive fouls.😢
so u mean AI crossover was a streetball move? hell no its make the nba better, but the rules in favor of the offense are for sure
Except in street ball you aren’t trying to fake out refs
This is why I give so much respect to the old timers in eras where the rules were tougher/enforced. Anyone that says those plumbers from back in the day wouldn't suceed with today's rules just needs to watch this video.
They wouldn’t tho
@@xXSprMgaAwsmFxyHtXx yes they would
This must have taken so much time and effort to research and consolidate. Absolutely enjoyable thank you!
This is why people gotta stop trashing old school players of the 60s and 70s. Kyrie wouldn't be ky without hte rules today. We gotta judge a player based on how good he is to his competition, not other eras with different rules
I mostly agree. But if someone from the 60s don't have a good a jumper as I do now, we just can't pretend like this was just as good as mine because it was comparatively good then
@@loganmattoon5284 That's actually exactly what we can do. That's the definition of context. You have had the decades of basketball knowledge and jumpshot mechanics that came before you to study and improve yours. Nobody in the 60s had that same privilege that you enjoy. If they did, if they had that knowledge and context to draw on, then their jumpshot would obviously be as good or better than yours.
Kyrie is one of the few players he plays some of the purest basketball without the BS
@@tridra5714 I think he’s talking about his dribbling and finishing. He’d be called for travels and carries non stop.
@@loganmattoon5284 we need to use a combination of clues as to how they compare. One clue is work ethic and response to practice. For example, when Jordan practiced the long three in the late 80s and early 90s, he became good enough to compare to today's shooters, even putting up 6 straight in a Finals game. But after his first retirement, he stopped practicing the shot, and when the line moved back, we see his percentage and attempts drop. Each era had different skills that were important, and how players perfected their skills shows their ability to adapt. Players who also showed the ability to adapt as the game changed over time are the most likely to be able to adapt to different eras. For example, Magic couldn't shoot entering the league, but was a good shooter in his last years...same with Kidd. So it's not just how they played against their peers, but how they adapted their game across different styles.
We also have to take how their skills would work against different defenses. For example, Dolph Shayes could shoot from distance, having three point range on his shot, even though there was no 3-pt line. However, he was a set shooter and didn't jump on his shot, which would make his shot more blockable. In today's game his set shot might be good as a wide open shooter, but not great against these long, quick, and reactive defenses. It's hard to tell if he would learn modern shooting techniques though. Considering he did adapt some during his time in the league, one might reason he could possibly become a Duncan Robinson type shooter, with his similar height and athleticism, but it's debatable.
This might be the most important nba basketball video on TH-cam. I’m not joking
simply speaking, 90s and early 2000s had easily way more defensive options than today's NBA, not to mention that offensively, having much easier fouls, travels being significantly less called out, zero step and the elimination of a big guy on the paint just simply made the players today having easier time to score high points than it was in 90s and early 2000s
Not true. Illegal defense made it easier to score in the 90s. Defense is actually better now than it was then, players are just THAT TALENTED now
Sorry but can we take a moment to appreciate what an amazing piece of work this video is? Simply incredible research work to find similar plays from different eras (the comparison between the Abdul-Jabbar offensive foul at the beginning and the Antettokoumpo one later on is completely on point. But then the script and narration are also fantastic, moving from topic to topic in order to paint the bigger picture. Fantastic work, congratulations!
Don’t get out of control 😂
Absolutely true.
Thank you so much for making this video! It frustrates me hearing people say that players in the 60's weren't athletic at all and that people couldn't shoot/handle back then. There was just so much that they weren't allowed to do at the time that now anybody in the league can do.
Just show an old video of jim class of the 60's then show one of 2023 and let's see who were more physical, durable, stronger!
This has to be one of my favorite TH-cam videos of all time, it's just a very good description of basketball in America over the years
Really loving these comparisons across eras. It's why you need to judge greatness not by what a player would do in a different time period, but how they did against the competition in their own.
Ben, I just wanted to chime in and say this is a wonderfully researched, produced, and presented project. This is a must-watch for anyone looking to learn how varied rules interpretations throughout the years have affected on-court outcomes.
The only one willing, capable and available to do this type of relevant and not-easy basketball work.
In a sea of bs, Ben is invaluable in the basketball scene (Clayton is good too).
The travelling part and the offense getting away initiating contact (not that they need to blow the whistle, just don't punish the defense for that), really made me feel sad.
A fantastic overall breakdown of the current state of play. I'm in the UK and learned to play basketball at school in the 80s, and I could never understand why i the NBA, moving screens weren't defensive fouls, or why offensive players were allowed to take more than 2 steps after the final dribble, and do they still have a '3-second rule'? Excellent work!
Wilt would have been soooo much better in the 90s-00s. He wasn't allowed to use his biggest gift, his strength, during his era.
He would be good but his stats would suffer due to a slower pace
Easily a lock for top 5 all time if he played during that era
@@kevin4xscoringchampdurant767 But his field goal percentage would also be a good bit higher. And he already had good range on his jumpshot, if he can hit just 35% of his 3s, he would be an absolute terror.
@@Nuvendil What ? Wilt was a terrible Shaq level shooter. That doesn’t mean he can’t dominate but he isn’t hitting any 3’s lol.
@@kevin4xscoringchampdurant767 That's flatly untrue. In fact, midrange fadeaways was one of his most noted and lethal weapons. In the season he averaged 50, that was one of hist most common shots. And he hit that shot from all over the floor. There's numerous videos of him doing this and it has been remarked upon by players and commentators of that time.
If Wilt had the same range of scoring tools as Shaq, he wouldn't have been able to average what he did because the offensive foul officiating would have made it a lot easier to stop him. His free throw shooting was bad, but that's not the same as his shooting in normal play.
The rip through section is probably the most embarrassing thing I have seen in recent basketball and I'm shocked it lasted as long as it did. Mind-boggling.
This is rare topic about dribbling rules in old days, it makes me wonder some NBA fan that didn't witness the old League making fan about Bob cousy's dribble thanks to this video I learned something interesting. I'm a new subs now 👍🏻
What an impressive video! Thanks for the effort you put into this. I can only imagine the work finding all of these old clips.
The saddest thing about this is that all those rewards for the offense just Leads to flopping from the defense because when the O can do whatever they want, the D NEEDS to sell the offensive foul because otherwise it would never be called. The flopping issue is really a homemade problem
ong they need VAR like football to check over every call instantly because these flops make the refs job impossible to get everything right. If they flop they should get a tech every time too idk how they haven't added that yet.
I'm praying the NBA at least starts calling the rip through move, there's a number ways offensive player initiate contact but the rip through is just the most ridiculous non-basketball play. Every time Chris Paul does it I'm in disgust
Dude I don’t even know how many times I saw Booker flopping in this video it’s insane. Clearly he learned from the best in Chris Paul
I used to watch the Spurs and Duncan make a living off that veteran move. Now I hate to see it lol.
Its hilarious how many cheap moves the Suns use. And no one talks about Kobe and Duncan doing that move over and over but god forbig Lebron embellish to actually get a whistle.
It's a counter to common defensive technique of hand to the chest/hip. This video explains these techniques really well:
th-cam.com/video/3whM5OZ3c_Q/w-d-xo.html
@@geordiejones5618 Older players used the move to get the guy to stop blocking their path. Gilbert completely closed the left side with his arm.
The biggest take away I got was seeing a ref make a call and the player turning and head down court without saying a word.
3:08 "Before detonating it on some redhead" 💀 The astronomical disrespect to Bill Walton got me dying 😂😂
You have arguably the best basketball breakdown content in the world, and you are much better than the so called sports analysts
Keep up the good work and content.
And definitely wiping the floor with youtubers as well.
Once again. It is refreshing to have an objective analysis of rules changes; you clearly expressed those tweaks impacted or changed the way basketball was/is officiated.
I hate when former players changed the narratives or are going full "fishing tales mode" about their playing days.
And defense was easier!! Jordan was not a top defender.
Michael exactly. Even hand checking was made illegal after 77 , yet was hardly called.
@@Michael-eu4pf Deandre Jordan? Idk man he seemed pretty good in the early 2010s.
@@KleinpeterHank He's talking about MJ, which is crazy
@@Michael-eu4pf There it goes. Taking people's objective analysis to try and mold a garbage narrative. It's like you people completely and conveniently ignore the portion of the analysis that goes against your narratives.
“Before detonating on some red head” got me😂🤣 don’t do my boy bill like dat🤣
I think Wade in the 2006 Finals was the turning point, when really getting close to a guard driving to the basket was an automatic foul. I rememebr so many instances when he was generating the contact and getting the call that I really thought it was a message from Stern to Cuban
Definitely
Jordan got all the calls too
Nah it was the 90s.. David Stern changed the game for Jordan
D-Whistle
I think these types of videos are really interesting because they give more context to the legends of the past. Please never stop making them
This video gave me a new found respect for the older gen hoopers, never realized just how strict and ridiculous the rule book was back, not to mention the inconsistency.
please come back this is one of the best basketball channels on yt
absolutely incredible video! dead wrong about the leaning in being called offensively in 2022. they SAID they were going to do that, and did do it a TINY bit, but that was a defensive foul most of the time in the 2021/2022 season, up to and including in the playoffs.
They enforced it strictly for like 3 weeks at the beginning of the season, but slowly reverted back to calling it on the defense throughout the season.
It all just depends on who’s on Offense
and who’s on Defense
That’s what matters when the refs make calls.
That’s all it’s even been since the 80’s
@@swirly3643 that 3 weeks was definitely fun to watch tho. Exposed some players (cough cough, harden) while also showing who were legit. They should definitely go back to that.
Thank You Thinking Basketball! The best video I have seen on TH-cam concerning the rules contrasting in different eras. It helps make my point in a previous video about why players from different eras can't be realistically compared. Players are playing totally different game from era to era.
It's no wonder a lot of players from the older eras have some resentment towards the "evolution" of todays game. Some of these current players do more acting than actual playing. What a sad state of affairs we've reached.
Why don't you guys hate the 90s?
It's also way looser rules than the 60s
This is the best video ever made on a sport's evolution, comparing and contrasting footage from multiple decades with easy to understand examples. Tremendous work!
In other words, how the NBA made it harder to play defense.
Or in other words, today’s players don’t have “da best handlez in da game histree” lol. You can have it both ways.
@@HT-sm9dm no, that's also true.
@@Star-pl1xs uh no it’s not.
And easier to score
Just want to say that since the NBA season finished, you have come up with some great stories to tell for the off season. First Jordan’s playoffs performances with focus on his teams play as well and now this great story telling on the history of nba rule changes and more importantly enforcement of the rules and how it’s made offense easier. How long did it take to research and watch so many videos? 👏 👏
I greatly appreciate you doing this video. Ive certainly see the changes in the last 30 years from when I first started watching basketball and noticed how the league has consistently made scoring easier since the 90’s in part because of rule changes but also how nba enforces rules. I saw Lakers vs Bulls 1991 Finals recently and notice his easy they called travel or carrying. I decided to sort of count them for the final game and counted at least 7 travel or carrying violations. Todays game I will count at most one or two of these violations and almost never a carry. This is why you can’t simply compare stats of players of different eras and why you have to compare them from players of that same era.
The Jerry West video and now are the first times in agreeing with you
@@rockysalvatore435 I don’t recall which video we disagreed on before
@Rorschach 0007 do you like the video? Basically covers every single thing that I had mentioned in our debate before
@@Homer-OJ-Simpson pretty much giannis and 🃏 and Luka. We probs disagree on prime harden and Curry too
@Rorschach 0007 “it disproves you completely even though the title says scoring has become easier and spend 30 minutes detailing how it was made easier”
Amazing video, just amazing, so informative and well done, your channel is a must follow
This is an amazing video that was much needed. I grew up watching late 90s early 2000s and I’ve seen the drastic change in the last 20+ years. I appreciate the skill and history of basketball and would always watch older games. The newer generation needs to watch this video because a lot of ppl clearly do not know the evolution of the game and why ppl like me have a hard time even watching now.
I started watching in 1990. I saw the transition of the game as it slowed down more and more and got more physical while also seeing more allowed for dribbling. Then in 2004 they banned handchecking and the game overnight became a perimeter players game. And then 2012 or so the 3’s started flying. Then 2015/2016 or so, the pacing began to increase. And around 2009 they allowed a gather step though it was 2019 when it was spelled clearly in a rule. In 1990, I didn’t know about the past and saw video of players of the past that looked weak. It was only more recently due to the internet and TH-cam that I found out how much rile enforcement changed which is why old guys in 1990’s complained about hardaway and Iverson dribbling just like I sort of do today. They allow more and more dribbling. A lot of youngins today see video of the 2004 and before or see stats of that era and don’t realize the game was different.
2019 was a huge game-changer. That's when I started to not recognize the game as spacing increased exponentially as you had to account for 3.5 steps. Now every shot looks wide open
I've done a little officiating in my day, and the most difficult calls to make I found were always under the hoop. Even as a player, I found that over half the calls were wrong. It sometimes felt that the refs were just blowing the whistle to slow the game down and give the player's a rest. Its almost virtually impossible to see contact sometimes when its so close, but yet refs make those calls.
i be putting by leg under the other guys ass and inbetween his legs, I put my elbow in his chest.. I used my hips to dislodge him.. it be a wrestling match down low sometimes, and the ref dont be calling it..
This is a phenomenal breakdown. Also, the "Contact" reference was outstanding.
Really love the channel, just binged watched the Greatest Peaks series and can't wait for the Top 10 players of the season video
24:34 LMAO at Harden fishing for fouls. Bro should get a tech everytime
I'm so glad that you point out physicality reaching its peak in the early 00s when so many old head say it was during Bird or Jordan's time. I truly believe the Malice played a huge role in how defense is looked at by refs too.
Jordan finished playing with the bulls 2 years before "the early 2000s"
He did actually play during the peak as an old man wizard.
The pace and average scores during the 2000s support the eye test as well.
I think the general physicality was greatest in the 2000s but the % of “non-basketball” fouls were greatest mid to late 80s.
@@flyingpigmonkey1 and his efficiency was terrible
@@jonjuko8859 that's bullshit
@@thelemonadestand5248 no its not. he means his efficiency on the wizzards andn with that hes correct. terrible might be a strong word but mj was pretty inefficient (and for his own standards even terribly inefficient) in his wizzard years.
I've watched some highlight tapes from the 60's & 70's over the past year (including a vintage Jerry West performance in the 1963 NBA Finals from House of Highlights), & the two things that probably struck me the most were the spacing (everyone was so close to the lane back then) & the lack of the physical stuff that you'd hear guys talk about in barbershops. It was much more "dodge & weave" kind of stuff.
I watched the whole bunch of basketball in the eighties and nineties and then I took a break. It is really really hard coming back in the last few years watching carries and travels in top 10 highlights consistently 😮💨
I really hope you get a chance to drop your top 10 players of the 2031-22 Season video. Looking forward to to that. Great video by the way, I love your insights and expertise when it come to dissecting basketball. Much success moving forward!
I feel like this video - and this channel in general - should be required viewing for anybody who is about to open their mouth to compare eras.
Ball handling rules need to be stricter. Its insane that people learning basketball as kids are literally playing a different game than the NBA that they are supposed to be preparing themselves for.
I think using your wrist is fine, it allows players to have a lot of more fun moves to try. What I feel is too far is when players are allowed to have their hand under de ball.
I agree. It's gone too far, but ratings and highlights keep going up, so it wont come back. At least not for a long time
Dude ngl i like the current ball handling rules than strict no underhand cause it’s just much more fun and allows for flashy plays
Seems like a very reductive idea to me.
@@MoonMoon-bj9jr yeah, I think the ball handling is fine. What needs to change is all those offensive fouls called as defensive fouls.
gotta say you always put out great content i listen to your podcasts at work whenever they drop. appreciate the work you do.
This is such a great, perceptive video. The two biggest things that have made watching the modern NBA no longer a joy for this long-time fan are;
*Allowing offensive players to initiate contact/not allowing defenders their own space (with hands and bodies)
*Reducing offensive strategy to three-point shooting and breaking down someone off the dribble (with maybe a pick and roll)
"carrying" the ball while dribbling or while crossing over is also part of or at least considered to be in the entertainment in basketball business. since new styles and new moves is what makes the people entertained, those are what generated revenue. basketball is not just a sport now but an entertainment biz.
As soon as they started charging admission in 1946 it was entertainment
Amazing video and this trend isn’t just restricted to basketball, football and baseball have gone extreme lengths to promote offensive play making the game more friendly to offenses and less friendly to defenses.
It's really fascinating seeing brief glimpses of modern day skill in 70s/80s era basketball. Players seemingly knew what they were capable of doing versus what the rules allowed them to do.
Nope, they just only were that good from time to time. Now Lebron has entire careers of 80s players worth of highlights in one game
That Al Horford travel, I can confirm he's landed safely in Nigeria.
This video is one of the best, and most needed to be watched videos on the internet, about how the NBA became so weird.
Very objective analysis, and I appreciate that tremendously. As someone who learned the game in the 1970s, I find the current NBA unwatchable -- I guess that's my problem, since so many current fans do find it entertaining. I'm happy to see so many comments to the effect that you have to judge players by the era in which they played.
Yeah even as a fan growing up as late as the 90s and early 00s I find the current game BEYOND unwatchable. Like I used to find excuses not to go play outside to watch a NBA or NCAA basketball game in the 90s and 00s. Not just the Bulls who were my team… but any of the top teams on Sunday NBA on NBC.
Today, I can’t even watch the NBA for more than a minute even when I have money on a game. That’s where it’s come to. It’s boring beyond belief.
Huh the game is only the most watched it's ever been . There is a lot of problem with the league officiating but from offensive standing point it's the most interesting it's ever been .
@@ajajala5081 couldn’t disagree more. Watching a bunch of guys jack up 3s, travel and shoot free throws all day long isn’t basketball in my opinion.
I've found the current NBA the most interesting era. I grew up adoring Iverson and being in awe of MJ, but looking back I find it hard to watch those games again. The inability to use zone defense, coupled with the hockey-like hacks in the lane, seems to me to lead to a lot of hero-ball where a player tried to take another player off the dribble over, and over, and over again. I find that boring. (On the other hand, I do agree that today's NBA has a problem with ridiculous foul calls--it's improving, which is part of why James Harden's game tanked, but it's still an issue)
I've never seen better passing than exists in today's NBA, and a perfect no-look pass, or one that threads the needle between three opposing players, is the thing I enjoy most in the game. That's not to say such passes didn't exist in previous eras, but it seems that most of them came from point guards and there was a lot more iso in the post,. The number of players who are exceptional passers has never been higher than it is today. I think it depends on what you like. If you prefer tough, physical defense, one-on-one play, back to the basket post work, clearly defined positional roles, and tight calls on dribbling and traveling, today's NBA won't thrill you. On the other hand, if you like quick and cerebral defense, exceptional shooting, lightning quick decisions, and incredible passing and speed from positions 1-5, today's NBA is great.
The game tends to grow in the direction people want it to. As one group ages out or walks away and finds it unwatchable (as I now do with baseball--used to LOVE baseball, can't stand the three outcomes only version played today), the next group comes in and finds exactly what they're looking for. The NBA is still growing, so they're doing something right. They're gaining more fans than they're losing, which is the goal of any sport. If you don't grow and change, you end up like boxing or horse racing, a once-popular sport that is relegated to the occasional medium sized event.
@@HT-sm9dm how about a bunch of big men backing up their defenders then throwing a hook shot?
The problem with the current rules isn't the actual rules, but how inconsistent they are called
Awesome analysis, dude!
Incredible, informative video. Thank you!
Thank you for this well done video!! I feel this has been long overdue. It is an entirely different game and has been tailored to give the offense such an advantage that we should not compare statistics from different eras. When I do watch an NBA game , I catch myself constantly saying "that's a travel, that's a carry, that's ridiculous!!" The flopping should result in a 1 game suspension. I also liked how you showed 1 play that would have been 4 violations in a previous era. Thank you!!!!
This probably the most fascinating in depth comparative study offense and violations in basketball.
This was such a well made video. So eye opening while simultaneously being perfectly delivered
Great explanation of how the game has changed. You covered all aspects exceptionally well.
I wish they went back to the tighter rules that made Harden play straight up 🔥
They did it for a while, then went easy again 😐
Well done, TB. An analysis like this one should be exhibit number one against any argument for one definitive GoaT, which is another way for me to say that if anyone wants to make a claim to one player's being the greatest of all time, they need to take each point from this video into consideration in adding to or subtracting from that one player's contribution to his era and applying it to some non-existent trans-era aggregation of qualifications, which, again, are by default unquantifiable.
THIS. It renders any discussion a moot point when you realize that actually trying to compare eras in good faith is actually like trying to create the conditions for time travel. It's just a way bigger tapestry than we would ever understand.
Thats an amazing video, the most interesting basketball related video ive ever seen
this video was so well executed brother...many thanks!!!
Thank you for making this! A few of my friends and I have been arguing for weeks about player comparisons. It got so bad one Sunday that I spent 8 hours putting info into a spreadsheet. Really appreciate all of the research, history and context coupled with all of the footage 🙏
It's about damn time people put some respect on Cousys name. Playing under such strict rules regarding ball handling and still able to be creative with the ball.
And, besides the disrespected legend Cousy, it becomes even more unbelievable when It comes to West, who did it all and on both sides of the floor, in those two decades.
What a high quality content! Very impressive.
Loved this summary, very well done
honestly, this just makes Kareem being the leading scorer even more impressive. bro couldn't use any of his strength to create space lol
Shaq is like the anti-Kareem lol He used ONLY his strength
He wasn't really strong in the first place
Which is why he mastered the skyhook
But he didn't do it tho he had the hook shot and it was always fading away
@@poly_g6068 Kareem was strong, more than you think