The Problem With Spider-Man & Mary Jane.... - Explained
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Why is Spider-Man such a popular character, but Mary Jane doesn't seem to hold up as well? In this video, we'll explore the problems with Spider-Man and Mary Jane and explain why they don't work as a couple.
If you're a fan of Spider-Man, then you'll want to watch this video to find out why Mary Jane doesn't work as a couple. We'll discuss the problems with their relationship, from trust issues to communication problems. After watching this video, you'll have a better understanding of why Spider-Man and Mary Jane don't work together! - บันเทิง
To get ahead of the argument. Spider-Man was married 21 years, 1987 to 2007-2008. (Depends if you consider one more day, or brand new day the start) He was single for 39 years now. But the status quo and argument against Mary Jane being a damsel in distress still stick. Look at every movie with Spider-Man after the Tobey Era. They want him single so he can date Gwen, or Michelle Jones (Zendaya's MJ's full name)
The big problem is thay Raimi adapt Gwen Stacy but he called "Mary Jane". MJ never was a damsel, she even save Peter many time.
Great Video Benny but most of your points come down to writing talent. Lois and Clark work because the writers put in the work. Spiderman and MJ have this issue because most spiderman writers are hacks and want to tell a self contained story while ignoring the previous run. Which is stupid. Nick Spencer's run is amazing because it didn't ignore Dan Slott's, it built it's story around the things that had happened before it started. And it's all the better for it.
Personally I'm a Peter x Felicia guy. Or maybe silver sable
@@jordanpax9735 Silver Sable never was a love interés. And Black Cat is more like Ada Wong.
The way I see it, they just don’t want Peter to have a win that can hold him together. Balancing school, then work as well as helping his aunt out and trying to be the Hero for a city the usually doesn’t care much for him. Why couldn’t he have the Supermodel Wife from a broken home. When May died back in the Clone saga, she was there and you could see him finding that rock that could hold him together.
Superman and Lois have been married with a child for years. Same thing with Wally and Linda as well as Barry and Iris. They’ve proven how a long running relationship in superhero comics can be genuinely great and actually add to the story in new ways. I honestly don’t know why Marvel doesn’t understand this, especially since Reed and Sue have been married for DECADES and their relationship adds a lot of fresh things to the story that wouldn’t otherwise be there if they weren’t together.
Edit: MJ absolutely has an established character that should be maintained. She’s an adventurous, care-free party girl who uses that to mask her trauma from being abused by her father. She eventually overcomes this trauma through becoming more emotionally mature. That’s the core of her character.
They wanna keep Spiderman a kid
The Flash family is simultaneously a great example of it working and why it doesn't work - It worked up until they killed Bart as he took the Flash mantle and reset everything and have been bringing it all back piecemeal in convoluted ways that get constantly retconned.
That being said, yeah, Superman and Lois and Reed and Sue seem to be good examples of doing it right and everyone being able to commit - so far.
@@user-pv1qk4so6s I was mainly talking about Barry and Iris’ relationship specifically, not Bart or anyone else. But yeah I agree with you regarding the Flash Family
@@user-pv1qk4so6s Ditto.
I know, right? Marvel are idiots who are ruining one of their most popular characters.
The problem with Peter & MJ is that Marvel's editors have a massive hard-on for the status quo. I'm still furious with how they screwed over Spencer, he was THIS CLOSE to undoing One More Day & giving us the Peter, MJ (& Possibly MayDay) family we all wanted. But nope, screw us I guess. This is why I don't read Spider-Man comics anymore.
And they think the best way to tell a spiderman story is to have him constantly struggling alone
I simply won't read spider-man comics post one more day
I have a sinking feeling that this "What did Peter do?" storyline is going to tank Spider-Man, at least the comics side of it
Steve ditko was right the struggling Peter Parker only works as a teen/early 20s it really doesn’t make much sense for him to have a lot of these hang ups as an adult.
The best part is that his was the best-selling Spider-Man run in ages, and sales are plummeting again with him off the book. Marvel's editors are purely driven by grudges and will actively harm their business to avoid just doing what people wish they would.
2:38
Selina abandoning Bruce at the wedding altar was one of the biggest letdowns in recent comic history, considering the amount of time this event was built up and hyped up by DC. Without any doubt, I highly prefer the attitude of their Earth Two versions, who did not hesitate to get married as soon as they realized how much in love they were
This comment is perfection❤❤
I felt that way too especially for Batman and Selena. Since that was a will they won’t they for 80 years
Stop making terrible wedding comic writers!
@@samuelpietrasinski8372 They won't hear you over the sound of their egos and the big wigs not wanting their major characters to grow😭😭
Not for me. I saw that coming a mile away
The one thing I will never forgive those Raimi films for is raising a whole generation into thinking Mary Jane is annoying and doesn't deserve Peter. Mary Jane goes in a special group of comic characters like Wally West and Nightwing for "Characters that the publishers nailed and hate themselves every day for doing so". They wrote a well written, strong female character who is written as much more than just "Spider-Man's girlfriend" (even though that is what she's designed to be). She has agency and motivation. She has wants and you know how she'll act in most situations. And here's an even more hot take: I think Black Cat only works in the context of Peter being in a relationship with Mary Jane. That's what makes it spicy. Two costumed people being in a relationship is like two insanely rich people being in a relationship. At some point, you gotta ask if either of you remembers what it's like to shop at the Wal Mart. Mary Jane being a regular person helps ground Peter and his stories. Y'know. Until they gave her powers, too. Because this is the timeline we live in.
While I can somewhat agree with your point about Peter dating blackcat or any other caped person. If the writers do it well that wouldn't be a big problem, Peter would always have ppl in his life that ground him into the realities of the mundane parts of humanity. I still prefer blackcat for him personally.
I would've loved a storyline where he knocked her up and now he has to do the responsible thing and grow up, fix his life and be a dad.
Huh? I have not ever heard anyone else saying that about Raimis films but ok that's your opinion. 😅 That's not what I saw.
@vili toivola as someone that grew up on those movies yeah mj was screwed over by both her actress and the writing. She has no character growth and is a burden.
The amazing movies for all its flaws the relationship with Gwen is on point.
And the mcu mj is her own character as well and and they work very well.
@@ubadman1 yeah, except the fact that Gwen in the comics dates Harry before Peter dispute her knowing Peter likes her and she likes him. Also Gwen never knew Peter was Spider-Man because she blamed Spider-Man for her father's death. Let's not act like the movies didn't change stuff
I grew up with the 90s Animated Spiderman I love Mj in Animations. Rami ruined Mj so much that even the actress got annoyed with her character. As for the comics I wasn't really all that interested in Mj. I preferred Gwen and they assassinated her character least live action gave Gwen justice
Marvel seems to really hate MJ and Peter being together. It's a real shame because that's who I think of when I think of Peter's true love.
Same.
I think they can't write a wholesome relationship because they don't know what one looks like.
Agreed, my friend. Completely agreed
@@UltraDonny5000
Indeed
@@UltraDonny5000 good point. It reflects in their treatment of these characters.
bruh the only good adaptation of mj and peters relationship is peter b parker
I think the biggest issue I heard from this is two fold “they can never be happy or the story ends” if you are writing any form of story and the only happy the characters get is the ending then you have proven yourself to be a terrible writer regardless of the type of story you are telling….its honestly one of the biggest reasons I quit reading comics because every character has to be sad until they get to the end of that story arc which is a miserable way to write a story without any ups or happy moments spread throughout….the second issue is what type of relationships are acceptable….not every relationship is going to have a super hero with an out going Lois that’s just unrealistic and if you wanna tell different types of stories within that superhero life I think you can without having them only be at the house all the time or putting themselves in danger all the time….it seems to me a lot of writers limit themselves or are limiting themselves for no reason
Thank you! Finally, someone says it!
Or.....they are just not good writers.
@@darriuscole8544
That’s probably the much more likely issue
Speaking of Peter and Mary Jane's wedding, I always loved that, on the iconic cover depicting the event, the Spider-Man villains appear watching the wedding in the background. I genuinely imagine Doctor Octopus saying in the crowd something like: "Seems like yesterday the first time he gave me a beating. They grow up so fast..." *Wipes a teardrop with a tentacle*
That would be far better than current comics spidey has got rn
Also doc Ock: it'd be a shame if...something happens to Peter's mind and he acts...different.
I would love to see that imagine the villains make a secret pact not to ruin Peter's big day
@@theoutsiderjess4869 yep, they destroy and kill spider man, but gotta let Peter live only fact they don't know they he is spider man
Same here
I agree, relationships don't work when they have no stability... Lois is always Lois where Mary Jane's character changes from writer to writer.
One of the reasons they made her "Lois" in the Ps4 games
@@reitakanashi532 does Spider-Man/Peter Parker soley rely on Mary Jane Watson for his happiness and wellbeing?
Can he be happy and have a stable future without Mary Jane Watson or any relationship in that matter?
I always thought that Peter and Mary Jane having a daughter was canon when I found the Spider-Girl comics in the library. I was disappointed to learn that it was an alternate universe and that the real Peter and Mary Jane aren't married because of a stupid deal with the devil.
You found a Spider-girl comic in the library too?
Back when I found one I think I was a little too young to understand continuity in all this but I still remember him training her behind the school or something, at least meeting up there. And even with her just being a what if, Alex Lennen's one more day video made me see what more was lost
Moments like these make me glad that there are other world stories that have Peter and MJ have a happy life, like in Renew your vows or in Spider-girl (May Mayday Parker) , but when it comes to 616 then yeah I feel bad and tired of it, especially cause there have close times they were going to be officially together but no
Agreed
When Spider-Man did OmD that was the day he died as a moralistic hero in my eyes and he has not recovered from it since then. It’s like Flashpoint and the retcon ruined Barry Allen’s version of the Flash and he hasn’t recovered from it since.
Agreed
“His weakness is family” does this mean we’re gonna have Superman pull a “I’m going to get some milk”?
MJ has been a struggling actress/model who doesn't bring in quite enough to support them both. Also, Mary Jane doesn't need powers that badly as she can and has defended herself from some of his villains without them. That said if she isn't going to be in a relationship with Peter it is better if they simply leave her out of the comics as the worst part of Spider-man comics right now is how far they are going to keep her from being in a relationship with Peter.
One more thing, Starfire is better for Nightwing/Dick Greyson than Babs/Batgirl. ☺
The problem with Kori and Dick is that DC wants to tie Dick to Gotham so as much as we lot prefer StarxDick DC ain’t having it.
You significant other can not be a girl who used to screw your dad/father figure. She is disqualified, no matter how well you get along.
@@darriuscole8544 does Spider-Man/Peter Parker soley rely on Mary Jane Watson for his happiness and wellbeing?
Can he be happy and have a stable future without Mary Jane Watson or any relationship in that matter?
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 - I was talking about pairing Batgirl with Dick Grayson. She used to screw around with Bruce Wayne, so that disqualifies her from being Dick's girl.
Kori doesn't really fit street level feel of Nightwing
I think Spider-Man's struggle to balance his personal life, work life and superhero life is what makes him popular, watching him trying to do everything that results in things going well/wrong. Maybe MJ's position in the comics might be best suited for the Work/Personal plots that end up seeping and converging into the Superhero plots, with MJ acting more as a supportive role helping Peter as a civilian rather than a damsel in distress, not to the extent as Batman's Oracle but somewhere along that line. I don't know that's just one idea I had.
I think that’s a really good idea
@@RickyUzumaki993someone should write a letter to Marvel about it.
Is it wrong for a character to be a damsel in distress? like the trope exist for a reason, and it doesn't have to be sexist, a man can be a damsel in distress lol I feel like politics have ruined the creativity of the writer's room where you can't write something because it will be considered offensive.
@@CartoonistDave
Agreed
Honestly Marvel should let Peter grow get married and get good job as teacher or scientist then put him in a Mentor role for young street heroes , and give that status quo for Spider-Man to literally any of the other Spider-People who are actually still young like miles
If they did that kind of development, maybe we wouldn't have to say "Mikes Morales Spider-Man" because we would see both characters develop and it wouldn't feel forced.
But that kind of stuff would take good writers who care; good luck finding them at Disney.
besides the mentor part thats literally the run right before they divorced him mostly cause half the current teen heroes hadnt been invented yet
Agreed
@@UltraDonny5000
Indeed
@@donb7519
Indeed
To think One More day is still having a effect on us in modern day. Well at least the Ultimate versions of Peter and Mj had a happy ending unlike their main 616 counterparts
Well Peter died, so......
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp they brought him back to life just before the ultimate universe ended
@@aceranger15 Yeah, I think that's stupid
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp that version of Peter has Mr immortal's abilities along with spider powers. So he just came back to life after his death. And he and MJ went away from their families to live together. However he did return as spiderman later on.
I get your point why relationship don't work in comic books but the new Amazing spider man issues are like they tell us Mj and Peter have broken up but don't want us to move past it. I feel like they want us to focus more on Peters relationship than the super hero defeats super villain plot.
The relationship works, is the Marvel editors who are morons.
This is a retarded point, relationships cant work if you have a mandate that they cant work, its a self fulling prophesy. Spiderman does not need to end, Peter Parker does.
cause they aren't writers, no one knows in the marvel comic side how to write anymore, always drama for the sake of it and retreading old ideas done better and it shows
@@marcusclark1339
Questions I have about Peter+MJ and Relationship Co-Dependency:
does Spider-Man/Peter Parker soley rely on Mary Jane Watson for his happiness and wellbeing?
Can he be happy and have a meaningful future without Mary Jane Watson or any relationship in that matter? Does he solely need Mary Jane to give his life meaning? Does Mary Jane Watson solely define Spider-Man/Peter Parker’s purpose and meaning of life?
Can Peter Parker/Spider-Man make and live his own meaningful life and future without Mary Jane? Or does he put his sole purpose and meaning onto Mary Jane?
The moments that lead me to question this are when Peter told Miguel in Edge of Time that is future is meaningless without MJ, Kravens Last Hunt when the thought of MJ pushed him to get out of the grave and at the end of Spider-Man 2 (movie) where MJ is what connects Spider-Man and Peter Parker and helps them find balance.
Honestly their argument about Mary Jane and Spider-Man not being married because it goes against the status quo is insane because there's always a status quo in unchangeable events to the character (e.g. Krypton always blew up, batman always has a Robin, galactctus always eats planets) so to say they don't want a Peter who's married because they'd rather have him be a swinging bachelor is dumb because he's arguably been married LONGER than single
He was married 21 years, He was single for 39.
@@comicstorian If it wasnt for One More Day it would be 37 to 23
Agreed
@@comicstorian
And the Spider-Man runs since One More Day have, for the most part, been crap
@@stephenschneekloth1535
Indeed
The problem with the status quo is exactly why I like elseworld stories more. If you want Peter and Mary Jane living a happy family life, you got Renew Your Vows. In main continuity though the only way a relationship sticks is if the fans are more interested in a couple together than separate. Relationships can work, but they need to be written in a way that keeps people interested.
Are they even carrying on with Renew Your Vows anymore?
@@pillar81sadly no
As far as I’m aware, most people loved the marriage in the jms run, quesada alone made one more day so they could retcon 30 years of character development, and Peter and mjs marriage. Quesada alone is the one to blame for these crappy stories
@@parkerramsbottom does Spider-Man/Peter Parker soley rely on Mary Jane Watson for his happiness and wellbeing?
Can he be happy and have a stable future without Mary Jane Watson or any relationship in that matter?
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 well, based off the Spencer run alone, his soul is aching for mj, and mjs for him. In another run between him and desdpool, Peter ended up face to face with mephisto, and mephisto basically taunted him about how he’ll never be truly happy because of something he took away from him (which was mj). So, yeah basically Peter as of now, will never truly be happy without mj. Mj should absolutely be his endgame anyways, no one more iconic than her.
And I’ll mention the elephant in the room again: if Quesada wanted a single unmarried Spider-Man back in the 00s, he had Ultimate Peter Parker being written & aged at a snail’s pace by his golden boy, Bendis. Joey was so proud of the Ultimate Line that some of the Ultimate covers had “The Gold Standard” emblazoned on them at the time. In fact, he was playing with idea of replacing the 616 with the Ultimate Universe until Brubaker & a few others talked him out if it.
If a writer has written themselves into a corner with a relationship in comics, it is their job as that title’s scribe to write themselves organically out of that corner. We all know Quesada couldn’t write himself out of a wet bag that had been soaked with sulphuric acid(Daredevil: Father). So, he forced JMS to use Magic to unmarry Peter & MJ, even though Ultimate Pete existed concurrently.
Mary Jane has been written badly, if not outright character assassinated, since OMD. Prior to that, she was a support unit to Peter in their crazy world as much as he was to her.
To paraphrase Gerry Conway: MJ gave you the impression she had a life outside the panels. Gwen was just there as the love interest & gave the impression that as soon as Peter walked out of the room, she disappeared, so she was the logical one to kill off.
Quesada did it on a whim or power trip because the Spider-Man he prefers is stuck in the 1970’s.
‘Nuff said.
I feel like I should acknowledge this other thing...
One of my favorite shows as a kid was Teen Titans. That was my first real introduction to the character of Robin. So my first impression of Robin was not as a sidekick to Batman, but as a leader of his own team. I knew about the history, I knew his origins as Richard Grayson, the son of acrobats, taken in by Bruce Wayne after his parents died... but when I think of Robin, it's the cool spiky-haired hero that leads the Titans, not the kid sidekick following Batman. And in the Teen Titans, there's Starfire. So, growing up, I was introduced to Robin with Starfire as his love interest that he'd eventually hook up with. So my perspective has always been that Robin was once the sidekick to Batman, then he went off on his own and separated himself from Batman, becoming the leader of the Teen Titans where he makes a name for himself and eventually hooks up with Starfire, and in the future he'd graduate from "Robin" to "Nightwing".
So with all that, it never made sense to me for Nightwing to just end up with Batgirl. What feels right to me is Starfire, especially because I more strongly associate him with the Titans as his own inner-circle separate from Batman, while pairing him with Batgirl is prioritizing the Bat-family as the inner circle in a way that is honestly a bit of a disservice to his character. He left Gotham and made a name for himself, and met an alien from another world whose never even heard of Batman before. With Batgirl, it's just pairing up Batman's sidekicks. He's not "Robin", leader of the Titans with her, he's "Robin", Batman's kid sidekick. Starfire adds to his independence from Batman and the Bat-family, while Batgirl only takes that away and reinforces that he's just another hero in Batman's shadow.
All that aside... Actually watching Teen Titans and seeing Robin & Starfire's relationship develop throughout the show paints a perfect example of the best way to have a love interest in a superhero/action show. Neither Starfire or Raven are damsels in distress, they're superheroes just like the guys are and are actually the strongest among them. Robin & Starfire can fight alongside each other in battle, and this allows the romance to exist in the background and not take away from the main appeal of this being an action show. And when it does come up and become a priority, it's inter-mixed with the action and adds to that context. The show isn't about Robin & Starfire's relationship, but it uses it to further what the show is actually about. This just reinforces my belief that superhero love interests should also be superheroes themselves.
You make a very persuasive argument there, my friend
I absolutely agree. However just like Spider-Man, Nightwing can also never be happy. He can’t end up with Kori or Babs, and he can never lead the Justice league and become the next Batman permanently. Even though we all know that’s what his end story is supposed to be, DC will never allow it. Everyone has an idea of what the comics are supposed to finish up with, but in reality they won’t finish unless they go bankrupt.
@@WynneChad
Sadly, you’re right
The problem is that writers & editors seem to not want to have relationships except to have love triangles dramas
Even the relationship between Medusa & Black bolt that worked for 50 years got ruined by Charles Soule & Al Ewing so that they can have that artificial drama
The example you used (Spiderman & Mj) has worked for a long time especially during JM Dematteis’ run (he’s currently writing a throwback mini called Spiderman the lost hunt that shows the relationship working like it used to & it’s great)
God, the writers and editors are dumb.
Should I check out that run?
@@RickyUzumaki993 the lost hunt mini
Absolutely
Anything written by Dematteis is worth reading
@@warlion_2nas163 does Spider-Man/Peter Parker soley rely on Mary Jane Watson for his happiness and wellbeing?
Can he be happy and have a meaningful future without Mary Jane Watson or any relationship in that matter? Does he solely need Mary Jane to give his life meaning? Does Mary Jane Watson solely define Spider-Man/Peter Parker’s purpose and meaning of life?
Can Peter Parker/Spider-Man have a meaningful life and future without Mary Jane?
Tomasi and Gleason's Superman rebirth was the best comic run of all time, i wish they were main Superman creative team forever, i hope someday we get a cartoon out of that.
Spider man renew your vows is a great example of how a spider man relationship can work
Crazy how Spiderman's character arc hit an all time high during Civil War but for some reason they took that as a chance to get rid of his marriage 😮💨
Agreed
Spiderman v. Cap issue is one of the best things Marvel Comics ever did. I hate myself for losing that issue. Iconic and you are so right.
You can have interesting b plots without it having to go into weird territory.
In my audio drama night terror, night terror has a wife, and while she's been trained to use a suit similar to night terrors in the event that night terror becomes compromised or unable to defend the family, her role is not to be a sidekick. In my stories Jenny serves as an excuse for me to write slice of Life with a superhero tinge. Like for instance in one of my stories Jenny works as a pizza delivery driver. And she's given a very unrealistic job. To compensate for this, Jenny uses the Wraith suit in order to meet the deadline. Along the way she saves people and stops crimes.
these are legit my fav vids rn, i just want to hear comics discussions all day 😭
One of my favorite comicbook couples, will never forgive them for "one more day"
Peter and MJs relationship in the 90s was one of the best things in the entire Spiderman mythos and the fact they ended it is still the most retarded decision marvel ever made.
Definitely!
I remember one of the writers, J. M. DeMatteis, infused his own love for his wife into the writing. Which was amazing because other writers were infusing whatever means they could to get the audience to not want to see them married. Even back then.
Rogue and Gambit is the only relationship i care about in all of comics and if they ever breakup i am gonna cry since they are literally my favourite Marvel characters ever
with the preview synopsis of issue 5 of the new rogue and gambit mini-series, i feel like they might.
So the problem I see is that no one sees Peter and MJ's relationship was built on growth. There was alot of trust and struggle the 2 built up til they were married and there have great stories while the otherwere away! MJ dealt with producers lusting after ner, arming herself during Carnage events, not smoking for the sake of the baby and even wanting to be Peters sidekick as a superhero. Maybe if writers would think of that aspect, and the fact that 2 bounce off each other as a couple, sharing their struggles and how to approach their problems together, maybe we could somewhere.
Oh the Batgirl vs Starfire beef is also a problem. You have two huge candidates for an endgame relationship that will make one side unhappy if their ship doesn't win AND every writer is gonna have their personal favorite so it seems it can never be decided.
surely I saw recently that Starfire and Nightwing are an item again?
It all comes down to time. Clark and Lois have been around for so long that they had time to figure her out. Same with Reed and same with Gwen. The problem with Gwen is that marvel "thinks" we want the status quo forever. So with Peter and Gwen or superbly and his boyfriend, they need to take the time to write a full guide line of how they can grow. This should take years with superboy but should be one story for Gwen. And they need to write I in stone and leave it for writers to build from. Growth in comics is good when done right.
There is nothing wrong with them.
The Editors and writers are the problem.
The dynamic can work EASILY just look at the ABSOLUTE PERFECTION that is RENEW YOUR VOWS😭💯🔥🔥🔥
Their relationship was written SO WELL and MJ's personality was always that of a superhero even though she didn't have powers, so her helping Peter to crime fight is FAR from far fetched😂.
And their relationship dynamic where she worries so much about risking Peter's life by borrowing half his powers in combat, thsy she bonds with Venom to help hjm out!? PEAK. The comvo they share after MJ shakes off the Venom symbiote is BEAUTIFUL.
MAN the writers for the first 2 parts of Renew Your Vows are GOATS. It sinks in qualotu unfortunatelt after the 2md timeskip tho but I love Annie's suit
So excuse me when I say Huh!? In relation to MJ not being as solid a character as Lois Lane. MJ DID have solid character traits. She was a Club Owner, Model and even Actress. She was also trained by Captain America along with Peter in self defence.
She was NEVER a damsel in distress and Peter trusted her enough to give her webshooters to defend herself. MJ is MORE than enough of a character to work with Peter. She was never just the "love interest"
Damn right
Yea, The Peter/MJ dynamic worked to perfection during the marriage years. We have 20 amazing years of them together that fans loved with lots of interesting stories. It's absolutely ignorant to say they "don't work". I dont' think RYV works better than the actual marriage. Peter doesn't need a family hero team.
Didn't she help Peter defeat a spider slayer? In the 90s show she help him defeat hydro man who was her crazy ex boyfriend too. The problem whit today writers they take the lazy way out and turn them into a girl boss.
@@XwoooahX
Agreed
I'm still mad about T'Challa and Storm. That was such a dope couple to me. I hated when they split them up.
Same thing with Bruce and Selina or Starfire and Dick.
You and me both
I hated that
I like Dick and Barbara together though but this is after New 52
To fix Peter Parker and MJ Watson, I would let them stay married since 1987.
Since their marriage, they would have a lot of adventures that include Peter handling is life as Spider-Man.
In the 1990s, the Clone Saga would end what the original writers and editors intended to write, instead of dragging the storyline on for four years.
Since 1996, Peter and MJ would be the parents of Mayday Parker (who was born in 1996), Annie May Parker (who was born in 2007), and Benjy Parker (who was born in the early 2010s). This would cause their children to become superheroes as Spider-Girl (before graduating to Spider-Woman), Spiderling, and Spider-Boy (before graduating to Spider-Man).
There will be no “One More Day” storyline, and some storylines events post-OMD would happen, but with Peter and MJ still being married (with a mixture of the MC2 universe and the Renew Your Vows universe).
That is what I should do to fix Peter Parker and MJ Watson.
I like that
Status Quo in Marvel/DC is my most hated villain.
Batman getting married,Peter Parker being a teacher,Steve Rogers being Hydra and Wolverine's death had potential to be legendary status quo changes like Robin becoming Nightwing, the 2nd Blue Beetle dying or Jean Grey getting possessed by Phoenix
@@HELLO_KORO as wild of a twist the Captain America Hydra was, would have been wild to keep him like that with the outcry. Batman not getting married was really my turn away from the status quo (not even a die-hard batfan). I have to acknowledge that OG characters like Batman and Wolverine won't go away, but I think you slowly update the status quo checklist for these characters if they didn't reset every year. Get married, have kids, climb out of poverty. Tilt the scale slightly above what's there and give new challenges. If the message/mission of that hero is still there, then that works for me.
@@yarc9 Talia murdered Damian in Batman Incorporated,that relationships long expired sadly
@@yarc9 is that in the most recent run? I can't keep track of who he is or isn't with each time. Either way, if it's not just a "set it and forget it" type of thing, then I would love to see DC and their writers extend his status quo. What does that marriage do for the character? How does it impact his environment/supporting cast as time goes on? How does it change his life in a new way while upholding the mission of Batman? Batman is a cool character, but Sad and lonely Bruce who pushes people away for Batman is not as interesting anymore.
@@yarc9 it definitely is. I enjoyed Tomasi's run on the two. He gets good portrayals as a reflection of his dad, and a product of his upbringing. I'm not reading the current Batman vs son story that was tied to Lazarus Planet, but at current, I don't have much interest in a character that I don't know what he really stands for now other than being a cool character.
Spider-Man needs and anchor: MJ is that anchor to normalcy that will not be a burden. Lois is the indomitable human spirit that marvels Clark. Reed bring the fantastic of the beyond while Sue brings the fantastic of tge small things and details to their relationship.
Nightwing & Barbara recent? Lol. Dude that’s been a thing since the 90s.
I think relationships *can* work, but the biggest and most likely only way for it to work is for both or all members of yhe relationship to be equally fleshed out and important characters. Thiat s why Lois and Clark work, as you said.
This is also why shippers will gravitate towards Blue and Gold, SuperBat and other BFFs, because both are well realised characters with their own autonomy who choose to devote time to the other and improve each other.
Agreed. Mary Jane is never the same character from iteration to iteration. It’s awful, as someone who’s reading the original run and have been consuming Spider-Man content and really like her.
Honestly, love can come in many different forms and, frankly, I do like Peter and MJ in the 90’s because they grounded each other when everything was going nuts. But yes, they need to be interesting.
You can have the heroes or villains be together with teammates but I think the best ones are ones that they fell in love before they became heroes. miracle and Barda and Apollo and Midnighter are two big ones. Heck, despite the really messed up stuff, Doom Patrol’s Brain and Mallah works. Mystique and Destiny having been Sherlock and Irene is currently giving me the quality sapphic nonsense I want.
But we kind of forget that some relationships are written as intended to fail.
The big one I can think of beings to Joker and Harley. Sometimes, it can be messy like Scott and Emma.
Whilst I do think Dick and Babs have chemistry (and a funny naming convention), I’d rather him be with a woman who is far away from Bruce Timm’s A03 account lol.
@christopherbennett5858 does Spider-Man/Peter Parker soley rely on Mary Jane Watson for his happiness and wellbeing?
Can he be happy and have a stable future without Mary Jane Watson or any relationship in that matter?
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 He could, definitely be stable.
However, a lot of people do like their silly shippy moments or have this belief that you need to be in a relationship to feel fulfilled. It may not be what’s correct but it is what people are comfortable with and what sells.
I want Spider-Man to have 2 runs. One is the typical superhero comic and the other is a slice of life with Mary Jane and their relationship. If the question is where is Mary Jane here's a comic all about it and in whatever arc Peter is in you can just mention what the current slice of life comic is doing.
Why not try writing a letter to Marvel about it.
I like Big Barda and Mister Miracle. I think they work though because of integral they are to each other's story
What’s weird is also in that mandatorial mandate that it state “gets his powers in middle school or college”, no it’s High school. Also why can’t Marvel realize that a Tomasi and Gleason Superman run is the perfect template for a Family Spider-Man book.
Indeed. And how so?
@@RickyUzumaki993 what do you mean? Like how would it be done in the style of Tomasi Superman run?
@@lexofpower2822
Yes
@@RickyUzumaki993 well honestly I think they should just get Peter and Mary Jane back together and undue One More Day then have some time pass and have their daughter May Parker and she has spider powers. The whole series is them raising their daughter and teaching her to be a hero but not putting Pete and MJ on the sidelines. Idk, I guess I’m oversimplifying it all, but that lady what I want to read.
@@lexofpower2822
I’d actually really like to read that. It could be interesting
I've always been a fan of Peter & M.J. and I LOVE the 'Renew Your Vows' Spider-Family.
Love your channel bro!
Great video! And YAY! Happy to see another Dick&Babs fan 🎉❤
I strongly believe that the love interest should more often than not be another action-oriented superhero that can be involved and have their own stuff going on, the same way sidekicks do.
I'm so glad other worlds stories exist because we see what Peter's life could or could've be like, for example Maday Parker stories where he's married to MJ ,renew your vows Married to MJ , some other stories he's happily married to Gwen or Betty brant and my favorite otherworld love interest is a Mutant girl who can talk to animals named Sophia Sanduval from the marvel adventures universe (she's so underrated considering this is definitely one of healthiest relationship I've seen Peter has been in comics, best part is they are still happily together by the end of the marvels adventures books)
The thing is about Earth 616 Peter Parker is that he doesn't have to end up with MJ there are loads of comic books were they are still married and have kids
As much as I loved the Double Date issue, I completely agree with everything you said about relationships
I think they're working their way to making Barry and Iris have that again, Wally and Linda have been a solid couple since he became the flash and his family stuff has been super interesting
I think sometimes they can work. I loved the way Gambit and Rogue were handled in Mr. and Mrs. X
Yeah, love interests in comics need to be fleshed out as much as the hero in order to have a fully functional relationship. They actually took notes from Louis and applied them to MJ…in the ps4 Insomniac game.
MJ in the comics is already one of the most fleshed out love interests in all of comics. That is why the marriage worked so well is she had such a detailed character and so many stories involved her. This video tries to give Spider-Man and MJ as a problem but that is the wrong example to use because MJ is actually extremely well developed compared to other couples in comics. Peter and MJ's marriage worked extremely well, going on 20 years and would have continued forever. The only reason it's gone is Marvel editors wanted a single Spider-Man as the status quo.
Honestly they kinda just copied Lois Lane. Not to say it didn’t work for Insomniac, but at the same time MJ is pretty fleshed out. There’s ways to make her work and have a Spider-Man story that actually ends well.
It's like they age John up for some kind of weird agenda I don't know something like that. Would have been really nice to see the kid grow up with Damien.
I’ve been saying for a very long time that aging up Jonathan Samuel Kent superboy was always a bad idea and garbage from the very beginning at least in my opinion.
If you are going to have a relationship then it needs to be in a format where both parts are interesting.
Like what happens when that hero miss a event or when they just don't want to.
One trait about Batman that I loved and hated that portray him in Suicide Squad is that he respects a family.
He has snatched a criminal and let them do something with them first then take them in.
Batman didn't do that in Suicide Squad and it was a missed opportunity for Deadshot daughter to hate Batman.
But stuff like that is what happens when writers are not creative to work around the status quo
Maybe you can write a letter to them about it.
At this point I just don’t want them together because currently everytime it happens either both of them suffer or Peter suffers and I’m just tired of seein it happen. Especially in recent years they seem to punish Peter more for being in a relationship with MJ.
And MJ, good lord i used to love that woman but nowadays I just can’t vibe with her with how they’ve made her act in certain comics and other media.
Supporting characters really need to strengthen the basic premise of the character. Mary Jane needs to be part of the hard choices Peter needs to make in balancing his life. She may or may not know, but him dealing with his tenuous relationship with a struggleing (my head cannon) actress where every time she needs him she feels she is harming the city by taking his time that can work. If chasing the girl is part of the character you can't a relationship. If Clark is a supporting character in the Lois and Clark story and Lois is a supporting character in the Superman and Lois story the relationship work. Lots of relationships work and they work when the relationship is part of the character permise rather than the chase being part of the character premise.
I love nightwing and oracle/nightwing and batgirl (though I will always prefer Barbara as oracle) to me it works only if both characters are characters and have something to do or some reason to not be joined at the hip. With Barbara as Oracle, and even now as batgirl because they are bringing back the Oracle focus, she is juggling multiple different superheroes plus helping different police departments (primarily GCPD, but in some cases even BPD) and overall she has her own life. As far as Nightwing is concerned, he has had relationships from all versions of this spectrum. We’re talking about one of my favorites that was basically a trophy and just ended up becoming either close friends or friends with benefits who is Bridgette Clancy his landlady. Who is that? Said two of his more recent relationships fell into the issue of what do we do with them. Specifically I am thinking of his relationship at the beginning of the rebirth night wing run, and the bartender, he dated during the issues that we shall not name. Both characters were somewhat interesting, but they kind of fell into the trap of. We don’t know what to do with them because we want the store to still focus on Nightwing (except during the issues we don’t mention), as for StarFire what’s interesting about her is I’ve seen some really good character analysis of her that pretty much just say that for a huge history of her character, she was very one dimensional and that she was Robin’s girlfriend (I’m specifically talking about the geek history, lesson podcast episode on her). When they try to get away from that, they basically focused more on her as a sex symbol and so in some cases, she kind of falls into the trophy category again even though she is a superhero and has powers and has contributed on the teen titans team and has had her own life. She very much resembles a lot of the characteristics of Mary Jane in current Spider-Man runs.
Remember when Peter Parker had a doctorate? It was the one thing I wanted him to have for years and they took it away in one issue.
It's all about a genuine idea, women can't ONLY be damsel in distressed, or only be murdered for plot shake, they can't all be super-heroine, they need to be thought all complete and complex characters, as super-heroes all need to be. Good story aren't about powers, they are about complete and complex characters. Still, that doesn't mean women can't be capture or endangered, or be stay at home, or be carreer women, they can be what ever as long as it is genuine.
Thank you so much for making this video. I think it's pretty clear that the fans have just had enough of editorial's BSery at this point. Jeremy Adams' recent Flash run, and countless others like Superman as well for that matter have time and again proven that heroes can grow and mature without becoming any less relavent for new readers. Hell, most of the comics I read growing up were of Peter already married to MJ, and not once did I think: "I wIsh PeteR WAs a TEEnAgER BeCaUse I'M A TeeNAger!!!"
Also the reason why Peter and MJ doesn't work is purely and solely because Marvel editorial has decided it won't work. There is literally no other reason than that
the funny thing about superman is that, some fans hate the family aspect of superman at the moment; in their eyes they are all the "same" character and they aren't that different to each other. which that type of thinking is dumb imo.
@@johnthai6188 I absolutely agree
I Think Relationships only work at The Beginning and the End of Each Arc Story Pending. And as for using the Said Hero's/Heroin's 'Love Interest' in the Middle of the Arc is Really Tricky not Impossible just Super Tricky. As you need an excuse a reason to check Up on the 'Love Interest' in the Middle of an Arc again for whatever the reason. Aside from just for reason we're going to show MJ going Grocery Shopping or lets go and watch Lois getting Coffee again for no Reason at all. Etc..........
My favourite Relationship in comics is Wally West and Linda Park
Jeremy Adams Flash run is Amazing because of how it handles the lives of Wally, Linda and the Kids
It also helps that Mark Waid and Brian Augustyn kinda Mephisto proofed the relationship! (Flash Hell to Pay)
For me, my favorite marvel relationship was and is Peter Parker and MJ. I started reading Spider-Man win marvel. Spider-Man artist was Todd, McFarlane, and I fell in love with those two characters. I also fell in love with the X-Men name, Jim Lee and Chris Claremont. Now I think relationships can work and did work for Peter Parker now I do think Peter will get back into a relationship with MJ. At some point it’s just only a matter of time. It ebbs and flows relationship in Comics has peaks and valleys.
MJ and Peters relationship doesn’t work because Marvel doesn’t like them together even when they were married
Ironicly in the old 60/70ys comics of Spider-Man marvel let Gwen Stacy die becouse they liked MJ's pary-girl character more. What Stan Lee actually don't liked becouse he wants Gwen to be Peter's main love interasst from the beginning to the end.
I think they don't like the Spider-Man to be Married idea so much.
@@user-xo3eb4li6q Stan Lee seemed to legitimately like both Gwen and Mary Jane, did prefer Gwen initially but after a while he on his own thought Peter and Mary Jane should get married, that development would be good or at least not harmful.
Before one more day, MJ and peter were the status que. And MJ used to be a pretty fleshed out character. she had a backstory, motivation, and a personality. They could've left it that way and just make MJ pop up every couple of issues for a date or something and to support him emotionally after whatever traumatizing thing has happened. Every once in a while, you can make a slice of life comics just to not make her a trophy but the rest of the time you can make it a regular superhero comic. The same way that people with job don't talk to their partner while on the clock, we won't see MJ while spiderman is on the clock. Alternatively, you can do "renew your vows" and solve the problem that way.
I'm curious who gets to decide any potential changes to the status quo or if they're somehow written into stone for all time.
mainly editors/ editor in chiefs get's to do that.
I don't understand why comics don't just fully commit to the model of the multimedia outings; characters have "core traits" but otherwise continuity only exist within the book made by 1 writer/team, is completed, and then a new book comes with absolutely nothing to do with the last.
The Status Quo is cool and all, and I get what Benny is saying about MJ either being involved or a trophy wife. But there is an in between where they are married and oh she could be involved in this story or not, and then we'll check back on her in the next one if we decide to. Also, if they never get together, how do the future storylines with Mayday, Benny, et al. happen? If the status quo is what it is, then Peter, in every reality, should be single for his entire life, right?
Holy hel thank you. I was skimming thru the comments to see if actually made the point I was about to make and I glad someone did because I don't understand why it was one or the other option when it can be a nuance thing, he can have the wife at home while he goes on superhero stuff but they can have a couple stories of them being together or having random issues in between, not everything is "fridging" I don't think every issue have every support character on screen everytime to show that they exist, and she can even have her own thing idk why the trophy wife option only have her sitting at home doing nothing.
And besides comics have already shown women being amazing, and have even gone too far sometimes making them perfect, I don't think showing 1 woman that stays at home is gonna destroy the legacy and strength of women. But that's just me, maybe I'm wrong and girlfriends of superheroes need to be as strong as them and be involved with everything they do to show that women aren't objects? Idk
The thing is, due to the multiverse Mayday never necessarily needs to be from 616's Peter. The other thing is, it's not impossible that Peter and MJ's child has actually been alive all this time under the care of god knows who to keep her safe or something. So no, they never actually have to break the status quo or make him and MJ married again to explain these things.
She can, should be emotionally involved in the plot without getting powers of her own to directly join fights.
I feel like it honestly just depends on how well these characters are fleshed out. But I think it always tends to work better when a character is single and stays single.
By the way as shoehorn Jane Foster’s Thor is. It did allow her to develop the character better and makes her no longer a damsel.
5:25 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 nice cut away 🤣🤣🤣
Always back to Kyle and the fridge 🙄🤣
The unfortunate thing about this relationship is there is that there’s nothing wrong with it.
Agreed. They keep making things wrong with it artificially
Honestly I think the idea that relationships can’t work is wrong for the simple fact that there are couples like Superman & Lois, green arrow and black canary and other relationships that do work. These couples didn’t start out together, they were built up and then stuck around. It just comes down to if editorial wants to let the relationship develop until it becomes the status quo or not
Yep, Peter and MJ worked beautifully together as a married couple for 20 years (several hundred issues of comics) and the book sold extremely well with them married. They were fan favorite pairing and there was tons of fan outrage when splitting them up with OMD. The ONLY valid point in this video is status quo (Marvel wants Peter single). The rest of the "problems" may apply to other less well written relationships in comics, but do not apply to Peter and MJ. They were one of the best written couples in all of comics, if not the best.
I agree on all points with one exception. When someone says that having a character (like you mentioned Mary Jane) be a "damsel in distress" with no plot points is "not a good depiction of women in comics", it sets the precedence that women in comics shouldn't be allowed to be depicted like this. Which is kinda lame if a story would do better if it called for that type of thing. Making sure every spouse depicted in comics needs to be involved in the intimate details of the alter ego can become equally frustrating.
well it can be also frustrating to see a female character not have agency for herself and is always to tied to a male character: for some people.
@@johnthai6188 I totally agree. That said, even though it can be frustrating seeing that repeatedly, would you never tire of reading the typical "independent woman" trope nonstop instead? There needs to be variety and not "one way" scripting of how people are represented in comics.
@@coreypacillo8204 i think for me, personally, there needs to be a balance with characterization with female characters being involved romantically with the main superhero. look at geoff johns/ dan abentt's run on aquaman. i believe those 2 runs does great things with mera, not only just being the girlfriend to aquaman. it's about developing the side characters also. it's frustrating for people either way. some want more agency with their romantic partner characters and some don't.
I mean one biggest explain of this is 1989 TMNT FOUTH Wall breaking team is that whenever shredder does something show up April would see it then somehow get caught see try to warn the turtle they save her. April was always a way move the episode even when she didn't get captured by Shredder.
If done right, giving Spider-Man more of peer in his world to be with makes the most sense if he were to be allowed to change. Mark & eve as an example.
As a kid, i was an mj stan... now i know how much more sense Black Cat as an adult 😂
LETS GOOOOOO ANOTHER EXPLAINED VIDEO!
I agree that having MJ just sitting at home is boring, but what’s more boring is when Peter has no one waiting at home for him, (to borrow the point in the video referencing Superman) when there is no connection to his humanity.
Something that gets mentioned a lot in the spider-man comics is when he forgets that he’s even wearing the mask because he’s spending so much time in costume, and it’s because his “home life” is boring and depressing and he has no one to go home to. Peter needs that rock in his life, that foundation to help keep him centred I think MJ or Felicia do that for him.
I don’t think there is a correct answer when it comes to relationships in comics, but them constantly retconning/ripping women from out of Peters life sucks and having them dangle just out of his reach isn’t fun either. But it’s also not fun to have her (MJ) constantly be a damsel in distress or constantly have entire issues devoted to “what’s MJ doing so we know she’s not just a pretty thing sitting on the couch at home”.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I’m really not enjoying the back and forth of “they are together… and now they aren’t”.
but superman's soul humanity isn't just his family, it's his moral obligation to use his powers to help people.
Bro. Felicia hates peter parker but loves spiderman.
While they were dating peter parker was for all intents and purposes dead.
@@incognit01233Felicia doesn’t hate Peter anymore.
I've always hated when the writers ended MJ and Peter Parker's wedding. I'm still angry. I'm still angry when Catwoman and Batman didn't get married. I haven't read most of Batman's comic book sense.
Benny ran down a recent story and i didn’t think that shit really existed till he said “that’s a story they actually did”
my opinion as an "amateur" reader of EVERYTHING(comics, mangas, lightnovels, actual books, fanfictions, you name it) is that if the relationship is important plot-wise(like it's connected to the main plot), then the writer should write about it, AT LEAST 3 times(in the beginning, in the middle of the story, and at the end), for how much should write about it? So long that the important parts are there.
An example based on Spiderman and Mary-Jane? Here it goes: Spidey gets involved with dramas with a villain, while i don't know he was planning to ask MJ for a date or something, is that important for the plot? Maybe the villain is an old friend of MJ, or the villain figured out Spiderman's identity through MJ's random chatting about Peter, and then we have Spideman figuring out the whole thing, with some heart-to-heart chat between the two, figuring out the villain's plans near the end of that conversation, then Spiderman faces the villain and at the end we have the whole "this is the new situation between us"-conversation between Peter and MJ
BUT
If spiderman is in space, with the Guardians of the Galaxy or Adam Warlock(whatever) trying to fight Thanos or Galactus (weird that they would call Spiderman to face such threats but whatever XD) writers should be allowed to put the whole MJ-thing on hold, or just mentioning it as a reference and then move on with the plot until the end.
Is it so hard to do this?
PS: i hate never-changing status quos, on the long run makes everything boring and uninspired
It's not that it doesnt work its that editorial/corporate dont WANT it to.
I’m surprised Peter and Silk isn’t a thing anymore. Remember how hard they were pushing that?
I don't 😶
After silk became a character she moved to the other side of the marvel world rarely interacting with him
Think depends on the character personally enjoy spidermans love going all over kinda works for his character as like the average guy. For Bruce Wayne I kinda like him being with cat woman or ever since batman white knight like the idea of him with Harley quinn
It seems like comic book writers are always ruining stories with reboots and breaking up relationships.
I can only agree with your first point and I don't think that's a good reason narratively as much as that's just external forces, but I do think it's the Spider-Man and MJ aren't together anymore. The rest of your points kind of come down too well it has to be well-written, and duh, yes it would have to be well-written. I think a lot of people myself included view Peter and MJ in the same way that you view Lois and Clark. And all those terrible examples of what Mary Jane could do our from them trying to shoehorn her into the book when she's not the love interest. If you've read comics where they were married especially in JMS's run, she had things to do, she had side plots. The place where I agree with you the least is the slice-of-life thing not working for Spider-Man specifically. The reason Spider-Man and Peter Parker have separate character traits in the Sony deal is because Spider-Man is supposed to be 50% about Peter Parker's life and how is being Spider-Man affects his day to day and his relationships. That's part of why I think at Peter being married and having kids with MJ would be just as good if not better than Jon's introduction to Superman comics. And if you remember DC try to break up Lois and Superman in The New 52 and no one liked it, but DC was smart enough to not only fix it, but to double-down on it with Jon and created arguably the most interesting Superman comic status quo in years.
In your review of the Super Sons movie you guys discussed how love-it-or-hate-it Damian and John introductions added a new dimension to Batman and Superman characters and I think a lot of people want to see that same kind of growth for Spider-Man.
All that being said, you are entitled to your opinion I know you aren't the only one that feels that way as you said, but I just wanted to try and balance things out with the other side.
And that's why opinion exist.
It comes down to how to flesh out the character, like they did with Superman and Lois. And Mary Jane has options. Since she is seen as the popular, unreachable girl, make her a socialite that is in the know on how the rich plan to screw up the middle/lower class. Maybe tie in King Pin, or Tombstone. And she works with Spiderman to save the neighborhood from them. Plays into Spiderman's status of being the "friendly neighborhood Spiderman". Just find her a role that complements Spiderman's status quo.
I really liked the subtle relationship between Johnny Storm and Daken in Dark Wolverine
Why did I find the thorough contractual limitations on spidermans characterization reassuring?
I understand that Spider-Mans statue quo and his misfortunes are what make Spider-Man the character he is today, and i admire the fact that no matter wat this man goes through he's always still moving forward with his life and never giving up, but i gotta be honest it shouldn't have to be like that for him forever. Like superheroes deserve to be happy and actually succeed to. They don't have to lose all the time. Like when peter and mj finally got married and was gonna have kids but marvel decided nah this man is too happy we can't have that, or even when they gave peter his own company which was awesome cuz it was a progression for his character they ended up taking that away real quick from him just for him to go 360 right back to where he started. Like it's annoying tbh, let this man and all these comic characters that literally put themselves last before anyone else just be happy. They can still work in those settings and clearly superman and lois proved that
Watching this super late. But I want a books with Spider-Man and Black Cat together. After watching this is does get more Slice of life with superhero elements, so thanks for illuminating that for me. But ultimately in a series of 12 synopsis that I wrote for a Spider-Man and Black Cat story, I wanted to have Pete and Felicia go on fun adventures, so at the end of each issue the reader says "That was fun! Can't wait to see what they get up to next time." instead of being angry and depressed, which is how I've been feeling after most issues of Zeb Wells' Spider-Man run.
benny rocking that keanu reavs hair
Mark Grayson and Eve have a family and they are married those two were meant for each other. That made fans happy
It's still funny to me that arguably Doc oc had better game in Peter's body than he did. Bring back Anna Maria
reboot would do wounders for this problem like most problems in marvel comics
Relationships work IF the characters Start off on the same footing.
Ex. Fantastic Four, X-Men, Teen Titans.
The characters can stand alone as a superhero or part of a partnership.
Batman & Catwoman would work.
Where I think superhero stories go off the rails is when you make the character a parent.
I am under the belief that relationships can be good, VERY good if done well. But, sometimes you don’t need one. Maybe I want a comic about a hero who fights & kills people on a whim. Kill fight kill. But if you add a relationship to it, thats not a kill fight kill story anymore, unless the partner is also kill fight kill too. Even then, you don’t always NEED romance in every single story of existence.