Thanks for boosting the signal! Just curious why you don't use the Calc Coeff option in v1.5 of the tool? I suspect it is because you want to use the smoothing option in HPT? Also, HPT suggests doing the smoothing before calc coeff. It would be an interesting test to see which way works best...probably depends on the data set. Anyway, thanks for posting!
I use the smoothing option as opposed to the calc coefficient option for no other reason then it is a little bit of a time saver. I completely agree with your statement about HPT suggesting smoothing before calculating, however your VVE assistant tool acts as a great buffer to allow smoothing how I do in the video. 1. You can immediately see how lean or rich cells are. 2. Doing it the way in the video keeps those coefficient mountains that randomly pop up on the vve table when trying to dial it in pretty much to a minimum. Thank you for the tool it is amazing!
Goat rope garage did something very similar where he’s tuning, VVE and MAF at the same time but his formula is a little simpler. I don’t know if it works better because I don’t have a wide band center so I haven’t done any of this yet. I really need to get one
There are multiple ways to tune both MAF and vve , this is just one of many. Some are more accurate then others. I am not by any means knocking how any person tunes, however the method that silversurfer published is outlined by the original GM patents that gm uses to calculate airflow. At least that is what I got from reading the forums, there are copies of the patents in the thread, and people that are way smarter then me that have dissected those patents to say this method is at least very close to the calculations gm uses. Again I’m not knocking any particular persons method of tuning there are more then one way to skin a cat. I will say that this method seems to be more accurate as far as calculating vve from the MAF compared against flow factor. I say use both methods and decide for yourself which works better for you.
The VVE assistant Tool Google link Download: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-Y4fORr6xiAfVSmZkSrXC1tN6y6XbMuR Try this one if the first one doesn't work: drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-Y4fORr6xiAfVSmZkSrXC1tN6y6XbMuR
Great Job!! Its nice seeing someone take the time to not just show what needs to be done but also explaining why. A few questions for you. I noticed your math formulas are the same as silver surfers but the filters you use are completely different. Is there a reason why? The reason I ask is because I am using silver surfers filters and wondering if there is a better filter and why? Also you are using LTFT's in the formula, yet you turned LTFT's off In VCM Editor? I am assuming the LTFT values just show up as "0" in the logs? Lastly, I am assuming since LTFT's are disabled, resetting them after every flash and before every log taken is not necessary any more?
Thank you. The filters that silver surfer uses work great on gen 4 engines but they are not available as a channel that can be logged on all gen 5 ecm controllers, take the gen 5 v6 ecm’s for example. The reason I use those specific filters is because every gen 5 vehicle I have tuned v6 or otherwise has power enrichment as a channel that can be logged. Using the power enrichment filter like I do works just as well as silversurfers , but in my opinion it saves time not having to go and change the filter every time a vehicle comes in and has an ecm that does not support the filters used by silver surfer. Ltft are in the formula to make the formula work whether I have ltft on or off , again an ease of use thing. If they are off they won’t show up in the logs. You are correct , if they are off you do not need to reset ltft before every logged drive. I hope this helps and thanks for watching!
Thanks for the thorough response, you and goat rope garage are the only videos I have seen to date that things are explained and shown to make things easier to understand. I'm actually tuning on a Gen 4 platform in a vette, but this video will work on the Gen 4, but I don't think your filters would work. How do you feel about Virtual Torque Tables and Tuning them? I know you are a Gen 5 guy but it would be awesome to see a thorough in depth video on virtual torque tuning for both gen 4 and gen 5. Its a subject that does not get addressed very often.@@TitanTuned
Question how did you add the extra rows? Never mind I figured it out had to go to the folder and create them good info just starting to work on a new build and the old way takes quite a while
Hey Titan, One more question on this. You never showed what you setup in the actual tune file. Normally we would turn off COT, DOD, DFCO, push either maf or VVE, etc… What did you turn off as a preparation before you started to tune in Hybrid mode? Thanks again for this video.
I have a part 2 video that goes over what to turn on and what to turn off in the calibration file. Please give it a watch and a like and if you have any questions I will do my best to answer. Thanks for watching.
@@TitanTuned man, sorry to bother you. I ended up going though the comments and seen you posted a part 2 and I watched it. Sorry to bother you. But thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.
@@jimmyfreeze3782 it is there as reference. For example if I have a customer that would rather know what their AFR is , it is much easier to just look at it in the channels list then to get a calculator and math it out.
I’m trying to tune a 4cyl how would the math need to be changed for it to work correctly? Instead of STFT and LTFT would I just use STFT B1 and LTFT B1?
Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to tune a 4 cyl. Vehicle with this formula, but I would assume that you are correct in your thinking. You would need to change the math formula to reflect that only bank 1 stft and ltft are referenced.
Thank you, just wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly. Thank you for taking the time to do this video! A lot of us need this step by step help @@TitanTuned
Do you have a video of where you set up the filters? I used the math but my filters didn't register any data. I see the windows moving around but no numbers. Not sure if I am missing a decimal or the channels.
The part one video goes over the filters. If you are not seeing data populate in your graphs, I would make sure that you are logging the correct channels and make sure the math entered and the filters entered are correct.
HPTuners can't filter live data based on time. You need to stop logging, save the log, then re-open the log file and it will populate the data. This only happens when your filters have any sort of time based filtering.
You are tuning the vve from the MAF compared against dynamic air data. You are tuning both at the same time. You don’t need to do MAF only, you don’t need to do closed loop only or open loop only. In short the only thing you need to turn off in the tune is dfco and cfco (if manual) and turn off ltfts. Then from your drive log you will correct the MAF and also correct the vve graph. I will make another video showing the whole process.
As far as the calculations and filters go the wideband is only used in the VVE dyn air open loop and the MAF dyn air open loop. And the MAF and VVE dyn air closed loop are used when dialing in closed loop(stft’s). Doing it this way (both simultaneously ) ensures your closed loop fuel trims (stft’s) are dialed in as well as the open loop side of things. If you wanted to only use your wideband to tune the entire range you could . You would just need to use MAF dyn air open loop and vve dyn air open loop, and you would need to delete the rpm > or < 2500 aspect of the filter (it is the very first variable in all the filters) Doing it this way may take longer to dial in because you would be fighting stft’s. Unless of course your setup is open loop only then this would be the way to go. At that point you would need to make the necessary adjustments to be in open loop all the time. With out getting too convoluted, I hope this answers your question
@@TitanTuned Thanks man. Just wrapping myself around Silvers Method and Matts Method vs what I usually do which is fail either and tune vs EQ error in open loop.
You will still need to input data to the MAF and the vve, but you don’t have to do the traditional process of tuning only the MAF and then only the vve.
@@TitanTuned Got it. Do you make adjustments to the MAF and the VVE on the same drive data, or do you tune the MAF, go for another drive to log VVE, rinse and repeat?
@@TitanTuned They said "Why can't I record any data after use?" and I'm assuming it's because a lot of people don't know you can't view live data if you have any time based filtering. You need to save, close, and reopen your log file for it to populate. This is of course assuming you are logging the correct channels to begin with.
Well that was a pretty good video, but..... You got ahead of your self and never showed the "Row Axis" on your graph. Clearly you're using a "User Defined - DO NOT CHANGE" So how are we suppose to fallow along? Second, why didn't you just copy and paste all that math from the note pad to the description of this video so we can simply copy and paste? Third, you're saying you only need to take one data log and just keep repeating this process without doing a new scan every time?!?
To answer 1. The vve graph is set up the same as you normally would P ratio or map divided by baro for row axis Engine rpm for column axis 2. Initially I tried to do that but “TH-cam does not allow brackets in the description” so I couldn’t do that. You can still take a screen shot of that and then copy the text in screen shot you can select the Text and copy /paste it into a text document. 3. You will still need to drive . But you won’t have to drive any where close to what you would with out the tool. When using the tool you will start to see that the corrections slow down. At that point it’s a good idea to do another drive log. Think of it this way , every time you use the tool to paste into the vve table. That is a drive log that you didnt have to do. I hope this helps if you have any questions please don’t hesitate to ask.
this video is mad love. need more content like this.
Big thanks for the walkthrough! Works great bud, nice job
Thank you for taking the time to make this detailed video and posting the links. It really saved alot of time.
You do a great job of explaining things, nice video!
Thanks buddy always good refreshment, I think I'm right down the road from you too...in Texas
That’s awesome. It is a small world
curious why @silversurfer77 doesnt mention anything about filtering out pe at certain RPMs? awesome video thank you
Thanks for boosting the signal! Just curious why you don't use the Calc Coeff option in v1.5 of the tool? I suspect it is because you want to use the smoothing option in HPT?
Also, HPT suggests doing the smoothing before calc coeff. It would be an interesting test to see which way works best...probably depends on the data set. Anyway, thanks for posting!
I use the smoothing option as opposed to the calc coefficient option for no other reason then it is a little bit of a time saver.
I completely agree with your statement about HPT suggesting smoothing before calculating, however your VVE assistant tool acts as a great buffer to allow smoothing how I do in the video.
1. You can immediately see how lean or rich cells are.
2. Doing it the way in the video keeps those coefficient mountains that randomly pop up on the vve table when trying to dial it in pretty much to a minimum.
Thank you for the tool it is amazing!
Goat rope garage did something very similar where he’s tuning, VVE and MAF at the same time but his formula is a little simpler. I don’t know if it works better because I don’t have a wide band center so I haven’t done any of this yet. I really need to get one
He used EQ error and flow factor
There are multiple ways to tune both MAF and vve , this is just one of many. Some are more accurate then others.
I am not by any means knocking how any person tunes, however the method that silversurfer published is outlined by the original GM patents that gm uses to calculate airflow. At least that is what I got from reading the forums, there are copies of the patents in the thread, and people that are way smarter then me that have dissected those patents to say this method is at least very close to the calculations gm uses.
Again I’m not knocking any particular persons method of tuning there are more then one way to skin a cat.
I will say that this method seems to be more accurate as far as calculating vve from the MAF compared against flow factor.
I say use both methods and decide for yourself which works better for you.
Missing one big part on setting up the histograms, how do you do the MAP / Baro Gen V do not change?
@@timothyberlinski2299 the map / baro is just [50040.91] / [50032.91]
The VVE assistant Tool Google link
Download:
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-Y4fORr6xiAfVSmZkSrXC1tN6y6XbMuR
Try this one if the first one doesn't work:
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-Y4fORr6xiAfVSmZkSrXC1tN6y6XbMuR
For me, neither of those links are working.
Thank you for that. I corrected them and checked. They are working now.
@@TitanTunedthank you for your help
Great Job!! Its nice seeing someone take the time to not just show what needs to be done but also explaining why.
A few questions for you. I noticed your math formulas are the same as silver surfers but the filters you use are completely different.
Is there a reason why? The reason I ask is because I am using silver surfers filters and wondering if there is a better filter and why?
Also you are using LTFT's in the formula, yet you turned LTFT's off In VCM Editor? I am assuming the LTFT values just show up as "0" in the logs?
Lastly, I am assuming since LTFT's are disabled, resetting them after every flash and before every log taken is not necessary any more?
Thank you.
The filters that silver surfer uses work great on gen 4 engines but they are not available as a channel that can be logged on all gen 5 ecm controllers, take the gen 5 v6 ecm’s for example. The reason I use those specific filters is because every gen 5 vehicle I have tuned v6 or otherwise has power enrichment as a channel that can be logged.
Using the power enrichment filter like I do works just as well as silversurfers , but in my opinion it saves time not having to go and change the filter every time a vehicle comes in and has an ecm that does not support the filters used by silver surfer.
Ltft are in the formula to make the formula work whether I have ltft on or off , again an ease of use thing. If they are off they won’t show up in the logs.
You are correct , if they are off you do not need to reset ltft before every logged drive.
I hope this helps and thanks for watching!
Thanks for the thorough response, you and goat rope garage are the only videos I have seen to date that things are explained and shown to make things easier to understand. I'm actually tuning on a Gen 4 platform in a vette, but this video will work on the Gen 4, but I don't think your filters would work. How do you feel about Virtual Torque Tables and Tuning them? I know you are a Gen 5 guy but it would be awesome to see a thorough in depth video on virtual torque tuning for both gen 4 and gen 5. Its a subject that does not get addressed very often.@@TitanTuned
Instead of using PE I filter by fuel trim cell.
Question how did you add the extra rows? Never mind I figured it out had to go to the folder and create them good info just starting to work on a new build and the old way takes quite a while
This way will for sure save you time
Hey Titan,
One more question on this.
You never showed what you setup in the actual tune file.
Normally we would turn off COT, DOD, DFCO, push either maf or VVE, etc…
What did you turn off as a preparation before you started to tune in Hybrid mode?
Thanks again for this video.
I have a part 2 video that goes over what to turn on and what to turn off in the calibration file. Please give it a watch and a like and if you have any questions I will do my best to answer. Thanks for watching.
th-cam.com/video/gPhzdOM0Rqc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qz0QM8a_VybpCwdF
@@TitanTuned man, sorry to bother you. I ended up going though the comments and seen you posted a part 2 and I watched it.
Sorry to bother you. But thank you for your reply. Much appreciated.
No worries. I hope the video helped.
Why is afr in your channels list if you tune in lamda?
@@jimmyfreeze3782 it is there as reference. For example if I have a customer that would rather know what their AFR is , it is much easier to just look at it in the channels list then to get a calculator and math it out.
I’m trying to tune a 4cyl how would the math need to be changed for it to work correctly? Instead of STFT and LTFT would I just use STFT B1 and LTFT B1?
Unfortunately I have not had the opportunity to tune a 4 cyl. Vehicle with this formula, but I would assume that you are correct in your thinking. You would need to change the math formula to reflect that only bank 1 stft and ltft are referenced.
Will you look at VVE DYN AIR PE Lambda
The notes in the equation do not match the math in the expression. But then again it's probably me.😅
The notes are incorrect but The actual math in the expression is correct
Thank you, just wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly. Thank you for taking the time to do this video! A lot of us need this step by step help @@TitanTuned
Do you have a video of where you set up the filters? I used the math but my filters didn't register any data. I see the windows moving around but no numbers. Not sure if I am missing a decimal or the channels.
The part one video goes over the filters. If you are not seeing data populate in your graphs, I would make sure that you are logging the correct channels and make sure the math entered and the filters entered are correct.
HPTuners can't filter live data based on time. You need to stop logging, save the log, then re-open the log file and it will populate the data. This only happens when your filters have any sort of time based filtering.
When you are doing this are you tuning dyn are vs VE and running MAF only? Then finalizing the tune on EQ err vs EQ commanded?
You are tuning the vve from the MAF compared against dynamic air data.
You are tuning both at the same time. You don’t need to do MAF only, you don’t need to do closed loop only or open loop only.
In short the only thing you need to turn off in the tune is dfco and cfco (if manual) and turn off ltfts.
Then from your drive log you will correct the MAF and also correct the vve graph.
I will make another video showing the whole process.
@@TitanTuned So do you ever use the wideband on anything other then Power enrichment?
As far as the calculations and filters go the wideband is only used in the VVE dyn air open loop and the MAF dyn air open loop. And the MAF and VVE dyn air closed loop are used when dialing in closed loop(stft’s). Doing it this way (both simultaneously ) ensures your closed loop fuel trims (stft’s) are dialed in as well as the open loop side of things.
If you wanted to only use your wideband to tune the entire range you could . You would just need to use MAF dyn air open loop and vve dyn air open loop, and you would need to delete the rpm > or < 2500 aspect of the filter (it is the very first variable in all the filters)
Doing it this way may take longer to dial in because you would be fighting stft’s. Unless of course your setup is open loop only then this would be the way to go. At that point you would need to make the necessary adjustments to be in open loop all the time.
With out getting too convoluted, I hope this answers your question
@@TitanTuned Thanks man. Just wrapping myself around Silvers Method and Matts Method vs what I usually do which is fail either and tune vs EQ error in open loop.
I’ll try to have another video out tonight or early tomorrow
Do you still need to go back and forth between the MAF and the VVE to dial everything in correctly?
You will still need to input data to the MAF and the vve, but you don’t have to do the traditional process of tuning only the MAF and then only the vve.
@@TitanTuned Got it. Do you make adjustments to the MAF and the VVE on the same drive data, or do you tune the MAF, go for another drive to log VVE, rinse and repeat?
@@cerealkiller19 you use the same drive data , I have another video on my channel that goes more in depth.
Dynamic Air Filters google drive
drive.google.com/drive/folders/1UHg1cQVglVArJaPiN_7vif7ARKvmh-Oj?usp=sharing
为什么使用后我无法记录任何数据？
@@晶黄-d1o I apologize, but is there anyway you could put that into Google translate , I can’t get it to translate on my side.
@@TitanTuned They said "Why can't I record any data after use?" and I'm assuming it's because a lot of people don't know you can't view live data if you have any time based filtering. You need to save, close, and reopen your log file for it to populate. This is of course assuming you are logging the correct channels to begin with.
@@dobermanracing谢谢！
Well that was a pretty good video, but.....
You got ahead of your self and never showed the "Row Axis" on your graph. Clearly you're using a "User Defined - DO NOT CHANGE" So how are we suppose to fallow along?
Second, why didn't you just copy and paste all that math from the note pad to the description of this video so we can simply copy and paste?
Third, you're saying you only need to take one data log and just keep repeating this process without doing a new scan every time?!?
To answer
1. The vve graph is set up the same as you normally would
P ratio or map divided by baro for row axis
Engine rpm for column axis
2. Initially I tried to do that but “TH-cam does not allow brackets in the description” so I couldn’t do that.
You can still take a screen shot of that and then copy the text in screen shot you can select the Text and copy /paste it into a text document.
3. You will still need to drive . But you won’t have to drive any where close to what you would with out the tool. When using the tool you will start to see that the corrections slow down. At that point it’s a good idea to do another drive log.
Think of it this way , every time you use the tool to paste into the vve table. That is a drive log that you didnt have to do.
I hope this helps if you have any questions please don’t hesitate to ask.
I will post a Google drive link with all the filters.