Why the Chaos/Traitor Legions are Incredibly Weak | Warhammer 40k Lore
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ค. 2022
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The traitor took 10,000 years to crack the Imperium's first line of defence, why is that? Why are they so weal?
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If only the forces of Chaos adhered to their Geologie Skincare routine, maybe they could have found more success.
Probably not but it's suspicious that they all have terrible skin and happen to lose a lot.
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Oh i cant wait till reddit sees this, just by the title I can tell this is going to upset people in halarious ways. But shit, its hard to talk up chaos to my friends after telling them they have lost like 12 major wars in a row and they have been lead by the same guy the whole time. Like saying it short hand makes them sound soooo impotent.
unless the demon is a slaneshee demon.. then its about shoving a toaster into a demon.
Cringe ad its time to stop
Im 30 but i have a babyface, good genetics+avoiding the sun=win. Nice try tho
Your description misspelt weak
Chaos was scary in fantasy because the setting was limited to a single planet and every lost battle for Empire or forces of Order was a major blow. You got this sense that Chaos was inevitably making progress with each incursion. You knew that the Chaos Wastes were creeping further and further south each year. In a galaxy spanning setting where the Imperium has million planets and trillions of soldiers, it's hard to make losses seem significant.
That's why I feel 40k is more of a dark comedy. The massive numbers should feel atrocious, but when planetwide genocide is a drop in the bucket the juxtaposition of how much we care vs how much we should care shows through.
In 40k, it's the Tyranids doing the part of Chaos in fantasy of being the creeping threat
@@N0noy1989 But even they have been relegated to basically jobber status. And if Tyranids get a win from time to time, it is either without consequence for the larger Imperium or the damages done are quickly repaired.
Thats why GW should be willing to "sacrifice" some known planets and characters to make the enemies of the imperium feel dangerous, chaos destroyed cadia, now its time for the tyranids to do something.
We have a genestealer cult in the imperial palace don't we? I doubt they will destroy Terra. But that will surely amount to something.
Imagine, a faction named "Chaos" being terrible at logistics.
Thousand Sons have over 10k Marines
Only 700 Space Wolves are left
@Mr. Boxman
Dark Angels and Grey Knights lost many members attacking the Thousand Sons
Traitor Legions are thriving while Loyalist Chapters are desperate for Primaris reinforcements
Honsou is still alive and is promoted by Perturabo after he killed 350 Ultramarines and Billions of humans
@Mr. Boxman
Kharn alone makes the Traitor Legions scary
For 10k years he has rampaged across the Imperium, Eldar and Ork planets without dying once
The Purge once killed an entire Hive World on their own. Just a warband.
@Mr. Boxman
Great Rift devoured Leavithan
Necrontyr and Eldar allied together to fight Chaos Daemons at the start of the War in Heaven
@@christiandauz3742 im mean compared to what little the necrons and eldar have left, i can see them teaming up because they cant afford to lose less than what they have. If it was the imperium they have numerous planets and troops they can sacrifice and it would barely dent the overall men-power. necrons barely have any tomb worlds left, and eldar keep losing craftworlds like flys.
Most Chaos Astartes and chaos humans are not interested in fighting the Imperium, focusing of the internal geopolitics of the Eye of Terror.
Many must know the Imperium just as a distant name, being born in the Eye.
Abaddon's main feat was convincing many that assaulting the Imperium was profitable and a way to go.
And by doing so he only made the imperium even stronger
Great Rift disagrees
@@zaer-ezart cadia disagrees
That sort of highlights a hole in the ‘great game’ idea. If chaos really is more interested in fighting itself than conquering the material universe, then almost no lore would represent a coherent and concerted effort against the imperium, barring the heresy. I suppose it’s a holdover from the ‘status quo’ era of warhammer.
@@edwardoavila7666 you're probably right in that all of the latest lore has had to be bolted on to the old. But in the chaos oriented books the chaos lords/warbands are always having to try to balance the Long War against the Great Game. The Chaos Gods do have a vested interest in seeing the Anathema destroyed but he is one amongst many priorities
Chaos needs more well trained, well organized and very disciplined "Regiments" like the Blood Pact or Sons of Sek, to challenge the Imperium to costly crusades.
Well I see some one else has been reading gaunts ghosts
Even then they would get the short end of the stick, due to how limited their supplies are
That’s exactly the problem.
Well you see, "organized" and "discipline" are things that are inherently not chaotic...... an organized and disciplined force would probably see the absurdity of joining the literal forces of hell.
@@whatsmolly5741 you'd be surprised when your whole life has been in the belly of hell (aka underhive of any hive world)and know nothing else but pain and hell a guy telling you that he can offer a good life with camaraderie , food ,clothing and the mean to get whatever you want
Not watched it yet. but in dilogy "Talon of Horus" and "Black Legion" it explained quite well.
Mutations and unholy gifts cant win overall decaying equipment, no logistics whatsoever and almost no unity in Chaos ranks.
Don't forget that Chaos Marines need to steal loyalist gene-seed to refill their ranks, which slows down their ability to recover.
If they have anyone else other than Abaddon, they'd probably be fine
@@robertnelson9599 And they need Fabius Bile to make more Chaos Space Marines
Yeah Iskandor put it well. There's this misconception that the Traitor Legions are the same unified force of monsters they were during the Horus Heresy.
They are not.
Night Lords raid Black Legion holdings. Iron Warriors siege Emperor's Children's pleasure palaces, Death Guard are sabotaged by Alpha Legion and on and on. Inside The Warp is a never ending mayhem of treachery and murder, only ever delayed by someone like Abbadon and even then, while Horus' position was only challenged once, pathetically by Lorgar, Abbadon has one Warband at any given time hoping to be the next Warmaster.
@Brian yeah, that is kinda a nature of chaos:)
That s why i prefer renegades (night lords as an example) more. Chaos is just a tool for them. Not for everyone though but still.
The Death guard are still legion size and they are even bigger than there were in the Horus heresy (source is 8th edition Codex Deathguard).
That's why I like the death guard they don't need to get recruits from planets hell they don't even need living people they just need bodies
@@bossman-wz3nl Same here with the Thousand Sons, Word Bearers and Iron Warriors.
But they are split between Mortarion and typhus
@@gsektor5645 Not really a problem. Usually the DG's infighting actually benefits the legion as whole. In the book lords of silence an agent of Typhus messes with the controls on a Morty loyal ship. Instead of taking them to planet smurf it took them to another ultramarine stronghold world with less plot armour, which they easy conquered. (Thanks to being backed by some wordbearers who they later betrayed.)
@@gsektor5645 Even if typhus hates Mortarion he has to listen to him. And Typhus also has only 1/7th of the Death guard legion under him.
The chaos gods ultimately don’t want to “win”
If they win the fight is over. But if the fight keeps going for thousands of years, that means more blood, death, destruction, cults and the very concept they are named after, CHAOS.
Mortal Chaos doesn't have to be threatening on a grand scale to work in this setting, I think the corrupting threat of the warp and daemons is the really menacing thing. Nids are definitely the main threat on a grand scale, and maybe the Necrons if they all woke up.
I agree, its a bit redundant saying it out loud but the one defining thing for chaos...... is chaos. It wouldn't be chaos if they had imperium level logistics, infrastructure and organization. The thing the imperium is constantly fighting against is the fact that it's alot easier to sow discord than it is to bring order.
yeah chaos is a consistent enemy, not an overwhelming one. Holding back the tides of chaos is a 24/7 job even without the traitor legions doing anything
@@freakymoejoe2 exactly, the chaos legions are just the product of chaose's biggest blow to the imperium they dont represent chaos, the fact that they are still around to cause any kind of damage is by itself actually impressive. I would imagine most worlds that fall to chaos never had a chaos marine step on them but to effectively purge the chaos from a corrupted world you will almost surely need space marines or a comparable force.
@@freakymoejoe2 yes, I think that's a nice way of describing it. It eats away at the whole Imperium with its malign threat more than it does with its direct assaults.
Actually the way trazyn sits on his throne it’s just soo…
Intermediatin
Perturabo and the iron legions are the one carry, it's a shame he become daemon primarch, he could become a true menace to the imperium if he keeps active and messing with the imperium in material realm
Hun becoming a daemon prince is just stupid. He abandoned the Siege specifically because he was sick of dealing with demons just Leroy Jenkins at the palace. Ironically the pessimistic man child that is perty is probably the only one that could of brought back to the imperiums side but GW decided to make his character into incoherent daddy issues and bitching.
At least he's Undivided. They tend to be less cooked (not by a lot). Also Undivided seems to be somewhat more independent. Like Be'lakor.
@@sond.lollipop8919 character development maybe?
@@sond.lollipop8919 only theory I’ve seen is that he was dying after the shit Fulgrim pulled in Angel Exterminatus so him ascending to Daemonhood was the only way he could survive. But I’m in the same boat as you, him becoming a daemon primarch was stupid
@@Hammer_Of_Olympia I though perty was the one that beat Fulgrim To near death🤔 either way tho yes perty becoming a daemon prince even. If it’s chaos undivided is just plain stupid. He should of become a dark warlord with his own empire or planet after the heresy and just kept to his own business like he originally wanted too
GW should make a story line where the Tyrannids invade a large, dense and industrialized sector in the northern part of the Imperium, and because its so remote, it takes even longer for the Loyalists to respond. The local forces hold out for as long as possible, but when they are on the verge of collapse, a relief force arrives. This turns out to be less crazy Chaos forces (say Perturabo leading the Iron Warriors, Night Lords and hodge podge of other forces), and are successful in driving off the Nids. Grateful for the relief, and in the belief they have been abandoned by Terra, they pledge themselves to the renegades, and purge any imperial loyalists. This would give a power base for Chaos, making them seem more threatening in the setting, as well as something for the crazier parts of Chaos to fight over. Throw in Cypher, Luther and some Fallen Angels and it can set the scene for an Imperial response which leads to the return of the Lion.
Edit: Maybe the Blood Ravens join the inevitable Imperial counter attack, and Magnus, enacting the fuckery of Tzeentch by trying to take all the gains for himself, reveals to Angelous that the Blood Ravens are his sons all Darth Vader style. The Blood Ravens are saved by Dark Angels and resurrected El Lion, who consuls them like Paarthurnax from Skyrim: “What is better - to be born in Big E’s grace, or overcome your evil nature through great effort to earn his love and glory?”
You'd make a good author
If it's the Iron Warriors in charge, then it even makes sense that it could succeed. They are STILL the masters of making a location completely impervious to all but the most absurd attacks.
Last I knew, there were still Iron Warriors worlds in realspace that the Imperium just blockaded instead of trying to blow up or recover because they're simply too fortified. The cost would be far too high.
Ah yes, i would need a video game of this because i lack attention span to read a book about or, even movies were beyond my patience.
that first paragraph would be fucking amazing
also in lore i'm pretty sure the iron warriors and nightlords are like mates now
@@bossmantyrrells1596 Hopefully they are, in Majorkill's next Hentai callendar.
And i'm listening to song named "Khorne" and i say this?
The problem with Chaos is GW gave Abaddon all the plot armor for the faction
This has (ironically) resulted in the forces of Chaos being the most stagnant faction in the setting
Simply put, logistics.
The birth/death ratio is heavily in the favour of the Imperium.
The equipment standard, and supply lines? Imperium.
Chaos has always been on the losing end. The biggest issue is simple logistics. Though I personally think they have a problem with characters. They don't have any good ones. Lugft Huron was basically evil Marneus Calgar, but then he became Huron Blackheart, basically just Abbadon jr. Personality = 0.
The only two traitor Marines I've truly found interesting are Khärn and Fabius
Then theres the Alpha Legion "Chaos", who are probably the ONLY "chaos" faction that has perfect logistic because leeching off the imperium and sabotaging the Logistic of the imperium, which obviously never make that big an effect for big battle but in theory would carry most of Chaos's victory
I actually recommend reading the Night Lords omnibus to understand the problem of logistics. Talos complained about the fact that they were continually running away from battles because they usually cannot win them.
@@erwannthietart3602 yes but they aren't chaos, some fell to chaos, but in general, the Alpha Legion is loyal to the Alpha Legion, and usually the Imperium
Lorgar is a fucking goober of a primarch but his legion survived the Heresy pretty much intact, and still acts like an actual legion in m.41.
One of their planets, Ghalmek is also a forge world, so they should be somewhat well supplied.
Exept that Lorgar did nothing else but pray the gods of chaos for 10 000 years straight and Kor Phareon and Erebus are waging a subtle war for the control of the Word Bearers in his absence.
It always bugged my that the Traitor Primarchs barely leave the Eye of Terror even though all but one of the loayalists are gone. Like if all the traitor Primarchs, along with other Astartes-turned-daemon princes, decided to hand up on Big Blue in one big fight, the Loyalists wouldn’t stand a chance
clearly its because the forces of chaos are well aware that if they win and kill all the loyalists....GW wont be able to sell space marines anymore.
They’d be way too busy fighting each other to ever come an work together. When G man came back all the chaos gods used it as an excuse to go fuck with each other worlds because everyone’s focus was on Gman
I think it's because of the nature of chaos. They literally can't think 5 minutes ahead of them. Big blue G could out plan and out maneuver all of the traitor primarchs and day of the week
The Emperor seems to have a personal interest in making sure that Roboute continues to survive and serve the Imperium, and despite his state he is still _extremely_ powerful. If what you describe ever happened he'd most certainly interfere, just like he did with Mortarion when he threatened Guilliman's life. I also imagine that the loyalist Primarchs who are still out there but "off the grid" would come out of hiding to defend the Imperium if the traitors decided to band together like that. Corvus Corax for sure would take notice since he's hunting Lorgar.
@@DovahFett i though corvus corax was trapped in the engine of woes creating new insult
Fun fact: The player base set up the destruction of Cadia, not GW. Years ago White Dwarf asked players to fight it out with Chaos vs Loyalist forces, then send in the results. Loyalists won a marginal victory on the ground but Chaos a marginal victory in space. That become the canon story, setting up the explanation for how a Black Stone fortress was rammed into the planet.
The reason why the galaxy isn't overrun is because chaos isn't unified.
The eye of terror is a partially stable area of warpspace realspace crossover.
It still has features of both including:
Time dilation
Mutating effects
Inflicting corruption/madness
Improving a connection with the chaos gods.
There is literally a knight household who turned traitor because they were attacked by the imperium for turning traitor due to basic warp travel time dilation.
In the fabius bile series, fabius works for 200 years in the eye of terror, comes out for a raid and its suddenly an extra 500 years have past.
There was a guy who was a basic legionary who had literally become impossible to kill due to chaos gifts.
You could literally be fighting the indomitus crusade and fighting against a chaos astartes from the Eye whose perception is that they have been in the eye for 5 years since the heresy.
There's an ork who killed himself to have 2 versions of his favourite weapon.
Doesn't this apply to Orks aswell? If they were unified I mean.
@@lemana2600
Oh yes. The victory at ullinor was against orks, probably the last ultra Warboss. It made the moden model for ghazgull look like an ork boy in comparison.
@@lemana2600i mean doesnt that apply to all factions ? full united necrons would be ggs
So in other words, Chaos Space Marines are effectively a good representation of humanity in Warhammer 60k: barely making it, surrounded on all sides, dwindling numbers and everything they do is truly just for their own survival at this point.
You mean Europeans? Lol
@@Aemond2024 OOF🤣
“The Dark Angels were nearly at full strength”
Yes. Please ignore any rumors that half of us fell to chaos and blew up our planet.
asmodi
To be fair, it is stated in the Night Lords books that the Corsairs have become as mutated in a few hundred years as the original traitor legionaries became in ten thousand.
Though this is suggested to be because of their rather extensive chaos worship, rather than due to the Maelstrom.
Also, Talos would have been fucked wether or not he did his whole "psychic telephone terrorist prank call" or not.
The eldar came after him way before he went loud, because of the whole "Night Lords prophet=involuntary Ulthwe sodomy" prophecy, and would have tried to hunt him regardless.
I suppose you could argue that the Night Lords could have won against the eldar if they had not lost half their number to loyalist space marines in setting up said loud telephone call, but on the other hand, Talos' geeneseed only really survived because of the home field advantage granted by fighting in the Tsagualsan catacombs. It is thus entieely possible that they would have simply been slaughtered or destroyed in the void if they had tried to lay low.
That said, laying low for a while would DEFINITELY be smart for the traitors overall.
Even if all the Chaos Legions united to a similar degree as their Fantasy Counterparts did while the End Times were happening, I doubt they would make it to Terra with how much of a shadow they are now compared to how much of a threat they were during the Horus Heresy and not to mention they also lack OP Skaven allies to carry them to the finish line in this universe.
The Tyranids are the Skaven of 40k and will be just as unstoppable as the Skaven.
No Skaven, but Tyranids could be used for the same thing lol. "They ate half of the Moon until it fell on Terra and wiped out South America and China."
Except they have just achieved thanks to abadon no less a significant victory that has now permanently scared the galaxy with the cicatrix maledictum. That cannot be fixed, at least not easily and so chaos will continue to grow stronger whilst the imperium will continue to grow weaker. In the following millennia chaos will have ample opportunity to selectively choose where to fight the weakest imperial forces whilst the imperium has to wade through the immaterium to get to anywhere. Not sure why the maledictum is glossed over like its still the 41st millennium and not the 42nd.
They need space skaven to blow up every important planet in the setting and get extra plot armour on par with abandon vs sigersmond to succeed
@@Marth667 sadly there is one person that could smash Chaos instantly and it is *Sly Marbo!!!!*
6:46 the word bearers while not directly being given orders by lorgar are still one of if not the most organized and coordinated traitor legions , while the dark apostles will try and engage in power plays and try to back stab each other the rest tend to be loyal to each other to the point of having freindships
"Alpha Legion aren't even considered traitor"
They're actually singlehandedly responsible for the annihilation/destruction of more loyalist astartes chapters than all the other traitor legions combined.
All part of there plan against chaos 😇🙏
AL also is highly geared / equiped and numerous if you go with all the lore information. probably the highest number of all legions in the current stage ..
Some of those had their destruction faked by loyalist Alpha Legion elements so they could be recruited into said Legion
...at least, that would be the best retcon for that if they decide Alpha Legion are in fact loyalist
Alpharius and Perterabo hard carried the entire heresy with their legions
Now that you're on a Chaos spree,I'd love a video about Crimson Slaughter or Blood Pact
I mean, the real reason is that the writers can't let chaos win too much, they need a somewhat stagnant setting and they don't want to kill off any major characters. I mean the Word Bearers are still pretty much as organized as they were pre-heresy, but they don't really do much. Like the only times they really get to kick ass is when they're the main characters in black library books.
Well, Fabius Bile could mix in some demon blood into the chaos space marine creation process, just small amounts, bit by bit until the chaos space marine in question is something more, but at the same, less of a mess than the usual ( *cough* possessed, spawn.. *cough* ) mayhaps you could use even deamon prince blood to make "true chosen" in which the prince in question could share their blood in the process of making these new recruits, making warriors that are basically mini princes? Or just properly gifted champions, whichever title you prefer~
Needs some more work as a concept.
But I like the idea, especially since it seems like this would be chaos’ answer to Primaris
I feel like Fabius Bile has been developed, way more than most of other chaos space marine characters, to be used as a plot device just in case Chaos is looking too weak and needs reinforcements. Then again, you would think that the great rift would of been used to give the traitor legions some planets to raise a few armies (is it being done, can't keep up with all the lore?)
True, Fabius Bile should get a much greater role for Chaos imo. He could almost singlehandedly solve their recruitment problems.
Iron Warriors use the obliterator virus to turn normal humans into obliterators.
Those that fail are either infected with a demon and become a cross between a berserker and a possessed others are infected with a demon and placed into demon weapons.
Some are just useless and become spawn.
Traitor Legions have plenty of geneseed, equipment and recruits
Most of them don't attack the Imperium on a regular basis
Would love to see more chaos stuff and things with Night Lords
The legions either seem to constantly try to destroy the Imperium with almost complete disregard of new recruits such as the world eaters and emperor's children, having stable recruits but do jack all in the matterium e.g Death guard and Iron Warriors or be extremely small and just floating around without the resources to create new recruits e.g night lords.
Gotta say it can get pretty *chaotic*
I think a key factor that adds to their strength that deserves a mention is their alliance with basically infinite daemons that can return to the physical realm even after they've been killed.
Plot armor. That's your answer.
Well for the alpha legion allow me to explain via a bad joke
Alpharius accused alpharius of betraying alpharius , his brother so he worked with his mates to support alpharius against alpharius while I watched with omegon
according to alpharius' primarch novel, Alpharius was killed by Rogal, but he was actually Omegon, Omegon who was Alpharius then becomes Alpharius, Omegon was playing at Alpharius and he allied with the cabal. So Omegon was alpharius, alpharius was omegon and alpharius was actually still loyal to big e and....why is my nose bleeding.
Omegon greetings I am alpharius omegon
@@ragingmoderate6791 no alpharius was killed by dorn, unless he referres to himself as omegon in his internal monologue
@@marlinazul7786 I'm just going off of what is said in thr primarch book. Which he does say could all be lies. He says that when he, Alpharius, found Omegon that Omegon took the name Alpharius and it was Omegon who introduced himself to Horus. It's not necessarily stated but implied that Omegon and Alpharius switched places and Omegon using the name Alpharius was the primarch the legion presented to the Empire. The evidence from that book anyway is that Omegon was wearing the armor that looked like serpent scales and already had the spear when Alpharius found him, and that's what the primarch was wearing when dorn killed him. Not saying this is 100% the absolute facts, just what I am inferring from the Alpharius primarch novel.
There's also the matter of how time passes more quickly in the warp, which is good for the chaos forces, since it means that the original traitors are still around 10k years later, but also bad in that it gives the Imperium a lot more time to build up armies, Astartes, navies, etc.
For the most part many of the truly dangerous foes of the empire are only held at bay because they can’t play nice with each other. Chaos and Orks are the two best examples.
Hey Majorkill, have you read a recent warhammer book where the black templars killed their Primaris marines? I can’t remember the name, but I know Valrak covered it. Love to see how you cover it.
I think it's the newest Dawn of Fire book.
@@bentim7732 grimderp moment from games workshop
@@bentim7732 This particular crusade fleet of templars thought that the Primaris marines were heretical creations of Cawl. They felt that Cawl had tampered with the Emperor’s design, so they killed their Primaris, their fleet marshal, and apparently a Custodes that escorted them there.
@@bentim7732 Yup. This particular crusade fleet was idiotically overzealous. It’s chaplains led the attack and even killed their own Marshall and battle brothers that supported the integration of the Primaris. More than likely, this group of templars will be purged.
Aren't Helbract and Grimaldus primaris now? Did these Templars miss that little tidbit?
I find myself remembering a story I worked on awhile back - we had this enemy faction that had this big wall of death that was encroaching slowly, destroying everything it touched... and after awhile it felt like the big wall of death was the real threat and the enemy faction was just sorta incidental cause they kept dying in droves to the main characters but they also had this thing that was forcing them to win by fiat.
That's Chaos sometimes tbh
Care to elaborate? Just saying you worked on a story with moving inanimate objects of death doesn't satisfy anyone's curiosity.
I wish GW would just give the traitor legions a significant win. Let Magnus blow up Fenris. Let the Black Legion make a push for Terra, destroying or enslaving every planet along the way.
For an empire that's on its last leg, the Imperium seems to be on the front foot a lot. Even before the primaris marines, it felt like the Imperium won every battle that mattered and the traitors were just there to be kicked around. Now with the galaxy split in half, let Chaos kick the Imperium around for a while
I would say abadon causing the great rift after a gruelling ten thousand years of planning is a significant win. The imperium will forever be on the back foot now with it open across the galaxy, its just major kill not understanding the lore as to why its so significant.
@@Marth667 Abadoo ironically made them stronger lmao. And also there are nids problems too.
But the Word Bearers won. They won huge. The Emperor is worshipped as a God, after slapping down the Word Bearers for saying he was basically Godlike in power.
Every Marine Chapter bar the Black Templars are guilty of practicing the Sorcery the Thousand Sons were punished for - the Black Templars worship the Emperor even more than the Word Bearers did when they were punished.
After being made kneel in the dust of their proudest city they decided the Emperor was a God, but not one worth of being worshipped and went looking for real ones. They found them and started the ball rolling on the Heresy.
In the year 40,000 the Empire looks far, far more like Lorgar's vision than the Emperors.
Just imagine the scale of Lorgar's victory. The Emperor sits trapped and rotting on a golden throne he can't leave, while Billions utter prayers written by Lorgar in defiance of his will, their faith reflecting in the Warp, creating a God in the Emperors name, fueling acts of faith and empowering Chaos Champion equivalents.
One of the weakest Primarchs, head of a legion often dismissed as the two dimensional daemon loving fanatics, have low-key, under everyone's noses twisted not only the Empire, but the Emperor to match their faith.
I am No God declares the Emperor.
Sure you are, thinks Lorgar, just watch....
5:03 the space wolves had lost a big bunch of marines when leman decided to leeroy jenkins horus, instead of waiting on terra with the rest of the loyalists
A video on Dark Mechanicus or TSon cults would be great.
It's not about being strong, it's about becoming omniscient with the use of blue space drugs and setting stuff on fire.
it's the first time I see a video from this content creator, and I think it's definitly a great teacher of lore. Great ballance between what is actual lore and what is personal opinion , great energy, great illustrations. It's directly hitting my top 3 40K lore channel in english.
Finally. A Chaos video
Angron is probably the one that personifies the problems of the Chaos forces. He’s great on the frontline where he solos everyone but it’s easy to outplay him on the grand scale. Leman and Guilliman both outplayed his forces for the most part despite having problems fighting against Angron himself. Even when he tried to take Armageddon he almost got outplayed completely when he had the planet at his mercy right at the start.
Bro your vids help me get through break ups thank you you are the best major kill. You are so funny you keep my mood up you have my deepest respect. Your smile is the reason I wake up in the morning man keep going. :)
The real reason chaos is weak is because GW does not want to change their static universe in any significant way
Some of the traitor legions are still rather organize and actively growing. The Death Guard and Word Bearers are noted to still have the most intact Legion structures, with the Word Bearers pretty much being completely intact. The death guard would be the next most cohesive force, they are actively recruiting and growing their forces. The iron warriors would probably be third on that list but next to nothing is known about modern Perterabo or what he is up to.
When I first got into 40k I really thought I would of liked chaos and chaos Astartes. Turns out I like Horus heresy era chaos and much prefer the storylines of the Astartes and their primarchs falling rather than them where they are now. Chaos now just fucking sucks and Abbadon is by far one of if not the worst written and most terribly used character in GWs history
his potrayal in the siege series is very very good.
@@lordberossus2545 yes it was it’s everything immediately after that is terrible. Absolutely no reason he would fall to chaos like he did.
@@sond.lollipop8919 spoilers for the black legions novels: Abaddon actually gave up fighting and became a nomad for a while. In no way is he fallen to chaos, he wont make the same mistake as Horus, and he hasn't. That his armies employ daemons, sorcerers and daemon-engines is not evidence of him personally being swayed by the promises of the chaos gods.
he actually reminds me of horus in the vengeful spirit novels, instead of bargaining with daemons, and losing his soul, he just forces them to fight because he's the only chance they will have to fight in realspace. IMO he's still an old school crusade legionaire who believes in the imperial truth, inspite of the evidence of the gods infront of him.
But i'd love to hear counterargument to this.
@@lordberossus2545 first nice name bro nice quote
second, he has fallen so hard to chaos that there are cracks in the floor. like his father he believes to use chaos to exact his revenge agianst the emperor. but like his father he is only a useful tool in the hands of much bigger players on the cosmic stage.
horus at least in the beginning was actually trying to usurp the throne. he was waging a war with an actual end goal as to be the new emperor of a renovated imperium. he used chaos but his forces where for the most part still human and not-mutated astartes
horus forces fall was gradual and only in the end chaos was rampant between his forces
abbadon is so deep into chaos shit to be comical. also his aim is pathetic. he want to wage war for revenge that the rebellion he took part was unseccessful and for percieved injustices from the emperor from the time of the great crusade. after 10.000 years he is still waging war for "daddy issues"
he is not even waging war for a real objective other than his personal satisfaction. he is not conquering the imperium to replace it with a new one. he is destroying it or corrputing it to chaos gods worshipping
@@tripleh327 This is why I like the Red Corsairs, they focus on the bigger picture and they haven't drank the chaos Kool Aid. The Red Corsairs lay low, plan methodically and tactically and are pretty chill compared to other Traitor Astartes because they just want to raid, consolidate their forces, and grill with their homies. Last but not least they are literally pirate Space Marines 😎
That bit about galadash the snorter had me dying, good stuff mate
This is hands down my favorite channel on youtube. You're hilarious.
Something I never understood about the 40k world is why the evil is embodied as well as it is and reflected upon the Chaos Gods but by the same logic good should be as well. It's like even if say a Khorne warrior is honorable they aren't anything special and end up getting corrupted anyway in the end. Why another khorne guy who bathes in blood of his enemies is super powerful. I'm probably understanding this very wrong but anyway..
Either way great video.
Because the Chaos gods are not natural to the warp. Chaos is basically cancer to the warp.
The reason only 'evil' is embodied in the Warp through Chaos is a bit weird.
See, it really started with the Necrons and the Old Ones during the War in Heaven. The fighting was so intense, and there was so much death, and the Old Ones and their slave races were using so much magic, that the old Warp was irreversibly damaged. Chaos is a pollution and degradation of the Warp, and like a virus, it's spread so that Chaos daemons and evil ideas are now the majority population of the Warp, and positive entities are nearly impossible to find.
So the Chaos Gods aren't proper representations of those emotions, they're corruptions. Khorne may have been born from martial honor and courage, but now he's senseless violence and slaughter. Nurgle may have been born from nature and cycles, but now he's virulence and decay. Tzeentch may have been born from hope and wisdom, but now he's mutation and backstabbing. Slaanesh... No, he was definitely born from excess, but he's the odd one out.
At this point, entities born of things like law and order and goodness can barely manifest in the Warp, let alone make it to realspace. The few exceptions are the Emperor's chosen, like the Legion of the Damned, the Sanguinor, and Saint Celestine.
Na mate the lore with Chaos is very contradictory and their at least in the lore just the bad guys. I agree with you but unfortunately GW probably wont change or at least give depth to Chaos.
@@treystorz3181 Chaos humans deserve more than being written as mindless hordes of screaming mutants.
@@t.m.t3215 I agree but tell that to GW.
It almost seem like the original plan was for Chaos to be fewer Space Marines controlling an infinite number of demons. But that's too close to how the Tyranid/Neckrons operate. So they become like space vikings instead.
Even when chaos are organized the gods decide to screw them over with a cheeky little warp storm or spawnification. Those lil' scamps.
Night lord Talos was like top 3 of bad ass chaos leaders. Honsou of iron warriors is a badass as well. Read storm of iron and the ultramarine series following uriel ventris and you will give mad props to honsou
Death guard are pretty well. Organized and heavy equipped. Ultramare system is lucky to survived
Honestly, for 40k moving forward, I hope a lot more emphasis is put on the threat of the Tyranids and their invasion. Kind of like a Horus Heresy arc against them with all the factions at least kind of working together to repulse them. It would give chaos a break to rebuild, and could have all the primarchs come back as well!
Kharn is the epitome of the chaos war machine. Virtually unstoppable 1-on-1 in a fight, but can't organize or plan any strategy that doesn't involve "burn, maim, kill", and will kill his own troops and allies when he gets bored.
I just saw your guest appearance on the Bary Walts channel. Great Job. That was a laugh I didn't know I needed. Thanks for brightening up my day.
I've always viewed Chaos as less of a unified force, and more of a symptom - The physical manifestation of the Imperium's own rot. The traitor legions are barely a drop in a bathtub compared to the vast majority of Chaos forces, which consists of cultists and mutants beyond count, who are driven there by the cruelty of the Imperium's regime. Chaos failing to be a cohesive or competent force SHOULD be the case, because anyone serving the Dark Gods long enough without grievous plot armour goes irreparably insane as their minds and bodies slowly lose all connection with reality.
Of course, with the Horus Heresy and the newer lore, 40k is now less about stagnation and decay, the slow dying of humanity's light amongst the cold, unforgiving void of space, so in this more nobledark setting I guess spike-covered moustache-twirling cackling villainy is an easier sell than Chaos being a direct response to the Imperium's own efforts to stifle Chaos. Whiiiiiiich is fine really, but if GW wants to push them as competent or fear-worthy, they really got to give them some wins that actually feel earnt, not just blowing up some made-up-for-this-purpose craftworld or giving them a random free win because chaos warp nonsense.
This line of thinking brought about the endtimes for fantasy.
@@Tornath3099 I respectfully disagree - What brought about the Endtimes for fantasy was, essentially, a demand for plot advancement, which is also what brought about Primaris and the general lore shift in 40k. Warhammer is a setting that, inherently, doesn't need to advance - In many ways, advancing the plot is to its detriment, because it means certain factions have to become weaker, certain factions have to become stronger.
I'm not saying plot advancement is a bad thing in as of itself, but if it's rushed (As Endtimes and the forming of the Great Rift was) then a huge amount of storytelling potential is tossed out the window.
As for giving Chaos victories, I stated that 'giving them a random free win because chaos warp nonsense' was off the table, and the Endtimes was nothing BUT random free Chaos wins, plot armour, and characters randomly losing their brains.
When there is no enemy within, the enemies outside cannot hurt you.
another great vid your content is always entertaining
Imagine you got the power of hell (the warp) on your side and yet space mushrooms and bugs are the bigger threat then you.
Personally I think the traitors are shat on way too much they deserve way more respect especially the traitor primarchs
But it makes sense why they're so disadvantaged. It's like trying to bear fruit inside a drought and/or plague.
@@kami_1789everything involving Magnus and Mortarion is dumb as shit and frankly some of the worst writing I've ever seen in my life.
I would point out that the gathering Fallen could actually represent a major threat. They are nearly legion strength and consist of two timelines worth of long war survivors. This and the forces that could come alongside it could be a big problem especially with the Dark Angels massive suppression of information abo
(I ded now lol)
That sanguinius/alpharius/omergon artwork will look epic on a poster...
You always post when im going to spark up good work 👍
I’ve been a chaos player since ‘96. And I can say, with absolutely certainty, beyond a shadow of a doubt, chaos 100% shaved their balls with a cheese grater
Ouch
I think that this is not only a problem with Chaos, but pretty much everything that isn't the Imperium. Everything losses when it fights the Imperium. Eldar, Orks, Tyranids, Necrons and Chaos are always loosing despite GW telling us "no for real they're really scary guys trust us the Imperium is going to loose any second now trust us". It doesn't seem like the Imperium is on the brink of destruction when they win every time they fight something.
This 100% hits the nail on the head, everyone else is just a punching with a frownie face drawn on it for Space Marines to beat up.
I should be sleeping, but here I am watching another Majorkill video. Cheers mate. 😉
I can confirm, get a skincare routine before 30. Shits no joke.
2 words: Plot Armour.
You cant have the bad guys win otherwise the franchise wouldnt sell as well.
The Black Legion was said to have almost a million Astartes within its ranks alone. The Imperium by contrast only controls around a million loyal Astartes. The Legions might not have as much in the way of resources in a physical sense, but they’re a serious contender as well imo
"Because GW hasnt finished writing the new Codex Yet" *Credits roll*
Man, I was watching that video you privatized 😂.
"What was Chaos Doing Before the Hours Heresy?"
"Did Nothing for 60 million years ?"
Maybe since this is supposed to be the “season of chaos” that will change somewhat. I recently(well a few months ago but wtever)started my first army (death guard) and most of my favorite novels are the Chaos focused, lords of silence, Fabius bile trilogy, night lords omnibus, might not have been my favorite but I did enjoy the Lucius faultless blade book, and just ordered to huron blackheart book. There’s also the ahriman trilogy which just had a 4th book announced
Thousand sons is a great book
The Iron Warriors have taken your advice.
How often have we read about the Iron Warriors in the 40k lore.
To my knowledge it's twice, once when they tried to take on Mortarion and the Death guard.
Lost that one.once when Honsou invaded Hydra Cortadus, won that one capturing a load of gene seed.
As they very rarely leave the eye they must be one of the biggest legions there, they have a stable planet, Medrennguard, plenty of deamon engines and also all the weapons given by the Lion to Perturabo just before lstvann five.
When the Death Guard doesn't have most if not all of the flaws he described 😏
I’m ngl this is the first time I’ve heard one of Majorkills Sponsors that I’m interested in grabbing it. Having a custom made skin care routine sounds nice asf now that summers abt to turn my skin into joint paper
Personally, I've been a big fan of the idea of the Red Corsairs taking Nachmund and from their Huron supplants Abaddon. The Chaotic decay that sees the traitors on the back foot does make sense until you think about Huron being out there. More than Abaddon I see him plotting and gathering the personal and equipment to make a true threat.
Once he has Fabius onside I could see Huron keeping the Imperium out of his business by constantly supplying the Nightlords so that they can keep Guilleman's gaze while they amass their forces for the siege on Nachmund (putting this lynch pin location in the hands of the "bad guys" would actually make the setting way more interesting than just defending it.) Meanwhile you can have Abaddon being a wet blanket about things and after a failed attempt to kill Huron, Abaddon vanishes into the warp until a writer comes along with an actual good idea for him. OR just kill him, I mean would that would definitely be a fitting way to transfer the title of Warmaster. At the same time the remaining bits of the Black Legion will continue to defy both the Imperium and the Red Corsairs.
New to the channel but binged the videos and enjoying it - who would have thought that laddish dick joke humour and WH40K lore would go together? But apparently it does - Majorkill makes it work, possibly because Aussies have a natural charm
Keep up the good work lad
I'm sure the emperor's skin care routine has a contribution to his radiant aura 😂
11:25
Gace me a little chuckle when I see your Alpha Legion marine was hiding as a Blood Angel 🤣, the Dark Angel jokes got old a while ago didn't they 👍
For the most part chaos marines are not represented well in the lore. They're veterans with a large portion of them fighting since the Horus heresy . Plus they have the chaos blessings to boost their abilities and strength. Average chaos marine should beat average loyalist marine with ease.
And not only this is misrepresented in the lore but also you got writers going always for the same concept a few loyalist marines beating the shit out innumerable chaos marines that is as realistic in the Warhammer universe as a few dozens orc boys beating hundreds of nobs. They even foolishly try to boost the chaos numbers out of the blue and introduce warbands like red corsairs who basically have as many men as the big pre heresy chapters which is completely idiotic and anti lore. Somehow a chapter confined to a certain area in which constantly has to compete with other warbands is as large as say pre heresy Ultramarines who recruited from dozens of worlds and had basically unlimited resources.
But on the other hand, I would rather have well maintained armor and a bolter that has actual ammo than being stronger
Everyone hates Abaddon. He's had 10,000 years to accomplish something. Anything and hasn't delivered. It's time GW removed him from the board and put someone more threatening in place. Personally, I'd love to see Perturabo curb stomp Abaddon and take over the black legion, expand a foot hold in the actual galaxy due to the great rift and begin unifying chaos forces. His character makes the absolute most sense to do something like that. He's tactician and he never really chose to truly embrace chaos. Granted, GW might have to find a way around the ridiculous decision to make him a demon prince, but I think it could be done.
A Blood Gorgon, Huron Blackheart, and Lucius on the thumbnail? Nice.
I just finished the Word Bearers omnibus and im in love with chaos rn. id love to hear what you think about marduk and his whole situation.
Don’t diss my stinky boys
Bring back the thunderwarriors. Have a batch of them awkoken from a hidden stasis, and fall to chaos to prevent the degradation of their bodys and because of the betrayal of their ancestors in the purge. Then chaos gets their own version of primaris marines, new gear, looks and characters to go all civil war within chaos. The black legion vs hurons fleet and the thunder warriors.
That's a good idea. Thunderwarriors would fit the Chaos brand. Powerful, unstable, easier and cruder creation process.
@@somethinglikethat2176 exactly.
Didn’t they have that OP resistance against a lot of weapons, but fatally weak against a common bacteria? (I might remember it wrong)
MK: Warfare on a galactic scale requires coordination
Orks: Hehe, 'umies aint got the nogginz for squig ridin'
Plot twist: Perturabo is actually a daemon prince of Malice, and that’s why Chaos has been shit for 10,000 years.
Can you do an elden ring bosses vs w40k characters
Well black legion won cadia and succeeded in the majority of the black crusades. They just cut the imperium in half and the imperium has been on a back foot for a long time. Chaos is actually winning a lot it's just that GW is not showing it only telling us.
Not as devastating as war of the beast.
That's very true, show don't tell. Chaos is routinely mentioned as being the greatest threat to the imperium but you have the overwhelming majority of the community including people like major kill with their biases that not only fail to mention it but somehow come to the conclusion that its the opposite? Maybe if they get turkey slapped by the cicatrix maledictum for the umpteenth time they might realise it.
Lamenters:....and you sold your soul over that??
"Chaos never thinks that far ahead" - Tzeentch would like a word with you
Chaos weak whimpy whiny soldier of Chaos Gods
Loyalist Chad Still fight for emperor until they die
This is why I like Tyranids more. They are just much more interesting and powerful.
The night lords novels showed that whilst potentially slow to respond when the imperium focuses on a chgaos incursion it gets smashed apart
It comes down to the mutineers' dilemma: Now that we've hanged the captain and renounced the king I'm no longer a lieutenant, you're no longer a petty officer, they're no longer seaman, and orders are just polite requests.
It's because, they are mainly led by abadon
Great recipe for failure.
Make Italy look Victorious in ww2
Looks at the great rift... 👀
Righto.
@@Marth667 cmon we both know it'd cause he tossed his fortress at the planet
@@scurrystopthat9985 So like, if chaos takes the planet and in the process wipes out all the loyalists on the surface, THEN destroys the black pillars that's acceptable but not if you throw your crippled fortress to destroy it whole sale? If anything its good story writing, after ten millennium of planning and secrecy that not even the imperium knew what abadon was doing, due to the sheer tenacity of the loyalists he had to sacrifice a black stone fortress to ensure his victory.
If you choose to ignore the cicatrix maledictum that stretches across the galaxy, across three segmentums no less then yea chaos is looking bad. But that sounds like a you problem.
@@Marth667 not what I was meaning marth, I just in all honesty dislike abandon and how he was treated as the villain, untill recently all his crusades failed, yes cadia did fall but, I just don't see abandon as a competent commander, the night lords trilogy shows him using them as shock troops, and he's been bet back by other, lesser groups, I see your point but I still feel that abandon isn't a good commander or leader. Espiczlly when he's suppose to be the 40k equivalent of the ever chosen.
I was wondering if at some point, GW would make a chaos undivided character, a mortal or astartes, whose entire goal/dream was to claim some planet as their own. Eventually, by somehow amassing a huge tidal wave of Chaos forces they seize the planet from Imperium and turn it into Daemon World.
The catch is that the protagonist cares about the population, and tries to keep the grimderp Chaos shenanigans being afflicted to the civilians to the minimum, thus creating massive amounts of new Chaos recruits. Then you could have an entire political turmoil, as champions of specific Chaos Gods try to take the planet for themselves and their respective God, only to be bitch-slapped away somehow. Perhaps a salvaged Gellar Field that stops champion psykers and disintegrates greater daemons.
Boom, you got an interesting, respectable and likable Chaos character, interesting political fuckery ON A DAEMON WORLD for storytelling, and an excuse for increase of Chaos activity in one go. Perhaps even throw a Forge World in the somewhere.
Mr major kill could you do a video about all of the chapters recruiting process ? Like all the trials they need to go through ?
My boys 1k sons slapping anyone when they put the effort.