1:24 Fuso's plating thickness was increased in Update 0.9.2. 9:27 Since Update 0.7.11, high caliber shells deal no more than 10% of their damage to destroyers
@@alecmarciano8320 It is just a hypothetical number, New York actually has 350mm of penetration at 18km according to shiptool and 360mm according to the WoWS ballistics calculator.
nice, i hope you get to enjoy the game for the rest of your life (and that we all enjoy the game for as long as we live too), also i did not mean to be morbid, that was not my intention
This was really great. The two commentators do a perfect job of making it sound like a true science documentary and I enjoy that. Thank you World of Warships.
How about Deck Armor? When the ship firing their shell at the maximum range, they more likely land on enemy ship's deck. That why the Super Heavy 16" AP shell with extremely low velocity ~792 m/s have nearly equal penetration value compare with Yamato 18" AP at long range fire.
it would be nice, when the stats of a ship Show, how many armor a Shell can penetrate at 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 km. i think that could help many Players to understand why a shel dont do any dmg. - Thank you guys for the Video
Better question. What about 0 damage pens on full HP ships? For me 1/3pens in every game dont deal damage. Or sometime 2 hist 1 pen + 1overpen deals 9500 damage (With Alsase last time) where they take this number? For Alsase is 1 pen cca 4000k damage and overpen 1400 = 5400 ...
I’m impressed the game is able to run that code and math in milliseconds of what’s actually going on. It’s insane how games really work behind the scenes
This video is what sold me on the game. I was convinced it was super unrealistic, especially with my bad experiences playing WoT Blitz, but what isnt seen in typical WoW gameplay videos is the attention to game mechanics like this. Ive even heard about armor schemes coming into effect from other sources, and was amazed that the game, despite the stereotype of having HP bars for ships, actually has more realism than is seen at face value. I guess it is worth a try for me
Man, this video really shows the complexity of armor penetration mechanics of the game, which I found really amazing. And all of this calculation is only from a single shell, whereas a ship can send up to 12 shells per salvo. Really made you think how powerful the computer to calculate all this (or thousands of monkeys with basic maths employed to calculate). Minotaur will put a lot of calculation per minutes. But still, RNG plays the most part of this.
I understand that whilst very complex, they have still over simplified a few things. For an example a shell penetrating above the water won't hit any portion of the anti-torpedo defence. Yes it will hit hull plating which is located behind the belt, However that hull plating is not made of armor quality steel, and so provides significantly less resistance than the plate thickness would lead one to think. To the point that ship designers never included that steel as counting towards belt thickness. Whilst the system that they use includes shell normalization, it doesn't seem to take into account decapping or yaw (maybe this is addressed in another video?)
Someone should have told these WW2 engineers that the most successful BB armor scheme would be to have 30mm plating everywhere to defeat most HE, and other than that, a 450mm torpedo bulge. That said, why doesn't the "trigger" for the AP shells happen on the pen/6 rule AS the shell is losing pen from passing through layers? I mean, based on this video, a large-caliber BB could hit an Atlanta right in the face, have it go through the ENTIRE length of the ship, out the aft, and only deal 1K dmg?
First off, I would love to take a Brooklyn against your BB, you're in big trouble, at least in the real world, maybe not WoW. Also, you've just more than doubled the weight used for armor, were are you shaving weights from? A thick torpedo bulge is worse than none. Torpedoes normally hit well below the belt armor, designed to protect the waterline, usually extends at thickness only around 6 - 8' below. Hits on belt thickness will cause all of the explosive energy to transfer to the plates, causing dislocation of the plates and damage and dislocation to supporting structure, many irreparable small leaks as well as shock damage taking out any systems in the vicinity. Much more dangerous the deeper the hit. The torpedo protection system extends from the base of the belt to the curve of the bilge, 15-30' depending on the ship and location of the hit. They are designed to vent and/or absorb the blast energy and resulting splinters, using alternating layers of thin structured voids and liquid filled spaces (fuel oil usually) without damaging the inner bulkhead. Sometimes thin crushing tubes were used, a neat idea that unfortunately didn't work, blast usually venting before the tubes crushed. The Itallian system was the worst example, with little provision for venting the blast took out the structure before the tubes crushed. Where these systems failed was either when they were hit multiple times, when design was not deep enough and were blown thru, (cruiser bulges do not provide any protection), or by bad joint design (Yamato's the worst, although the South Dakota/Iowa/Montana/Midway system also had issues)
Having played since the start of the Open Beta, I still learn new things from these videos, very well done. These How it Works videos should be mandatory viewing for new players. Keep up the good work.
I would like to see all the Infos and statistiks in Game.. or at least in an list. I want to see ho much Armor my Shells (HE and AP) can penatrate and how much armor it needs to explode.. sadly its not a thing :c
HE is actually easy (for german cruisers, battleships and british battleships 1/4 and for the rest 1/6 of the caliber, multiplied by the IFHE factor is taken, in the end you need .5mm more than the plate is thick) AP is pretty hard to calculate because you need to put the Krupp value, the shell weight and the impact velocity into a formula...so yeah, not really easy, but it would be good if we could see the shell weight, the krupp value and the drag coefficient in the port
you can see ALL stats about your ship on third party websites (they datamined it, so they went into the gamecode and looked it up) and there are a lot of informations on WGs wiki (wiki. wargaming. net (without the spaces, I don't know if links are allowed here))
Actually those values shouldnt change too much for any given ship. So they could just display the Penetration of the ships AP shells in the port at certain ranges, say 5/10/15/20 KM where applicable. Its just not ok that we have to look around on 3rd party websites to find such crucial information.
Great work with this video, fully professional! But people who watched this: dont snipe 18km+ becose you cant be hit hard. You can't hithard as well. Angling is the answer, not the distances.
Depends on the ship. I have found that with my N/C with ap rounds under 15 km I over pen & at 20 km my shells disperse so much lucky if 1 - 2 shells frm full salvo lands. I try too stay about 17 - 18 km frm target at that distance with N/C I get more citadels frm most ships
BB usually still able to citadel most cruiser even at max range. Also hitting the superstructure could possibly net a good damage. Sniping is ok, but camping is another matter.
sniping is good if you know what you're doing. that guy with the NC for example. also some distance can lead to plunging fire shot which ship's deck armor are usually thinner, thus, citadel hits
There is a 287mm citadel aft armour on Iowa - but the lower portion of it is only a disgusting 16mm. I checked the blueprints and it is historical accurate. However WG incorrectly models Iowa’s aft. As Iowa’s armoured steering rooms on her aft - are actually connected to the main citadel (a ww1 era battlecruiser trait)- by a 300mm belt - with 216mm aft armour (similar to Amagi) . This is what would have protected the 16mm citadel weakness - but since wg does not model that, BB shells can overmatch that 16mm and pen at any angle.
Yammy can cit sides??? I dare you to say that against Kurfurst and the rest of the German BB lines at close-mid ranges. Plus the same 45 degree technique in hitting Yammies Cheeks - also apply to other battleships with crap athwartship armour - especially to citadel proof German Battleships.
It's actually entertaining and educational, although many of the factors in play are hidden, starting from the armor penetration capability of shells at certain distances. I speak about data available in-game, and not whether it can or can not be found on non-affiliated websites. I didn't check, so I don't know; but I suppose that data could be only approximations anyway. So, I just thought to myself, what if, when you move your aiming reticule over an enemy ship you'd see an approximation in-game, something a bit similar to WoT: Red - bounce, Yellow - hit, but citadel hit is unlikely/impossible, Green - citadel hit is possible, Blue/Orange/Purple/Octarine/Whatever - overpenetration is likely. 1. It doesn't have to take all factors into account, thus you still would need experience to anticipate the possible outcomes of a hit on that point, and 2. You still would have to actually hit that point which is increasingly difficuly as range increases. So it wouldn't be OP, in my opinion.
I like these videos, definitely helps us who simply have a harder time in understanding TH-camrs who do try to help us all out. But without an even better way to show us how it works, some of us potatoes (like me :D) can't grasp the concept as clearly and we just go with what we know. Keep`em coming and KEEP`EM FIRING!
uhh... to be more realistic, if the shell hits the bridge on the superstructure, there will be no captain and the ship is under no-ones command, therefore almost inoperable
an addition to this video would be to show the cruiser shells that you mentioned earlier about how they had steeper ricochet angles. might not hurt to explain this to some players as well.
I have a question. First, if a shell hits a specific point of the armor, you need to know the angle. How do you tell the angle of the ships armor in 1 point? Second, 2 angles needed, a horizontal, and a vertical, then how do you calculate the relative armor thickness in 3D with 2 angles?
Would be nice if you described how to use this information. I mean I know how, but its math, looking at EACH ship and doing calculations for dozens of possible scenarios, and remembering that at time of play. Something simpler like. "Shooting bow or stern with heavy ammo is a waste" or "shoot under turrets if close, but shoot structure if at max range" and then let people use this info and that general guideline to get better. in other words some general conclusions would be nice. I realize that explaining how to shoot all ships with each type ammo and range would take weeks of videos, but something would be helpful.
The amount of Armour a shell can penetrate is a function of the shell type, velocity and the distance from the firing ship to the target. As you get closer to the target the penetration factor goes up. How to you know what the penetration of a shell at any given time or do we just not bother trying. My sense is to just worry about the enemy ships armour and aim for soft bits? Good video
you are probably thinking about German BBs. The relative armor comes into play. German turtle back has more sloping so the relative armor is much higher preventing the shells from getting into the citadel.
Oh if you mean German BB Turtlebacks... Their Turtlebacks are inclined to 68 degrees... Our Autobounce is 60 degrees. Meaning a Yamato with 900mm pen at point blank with a 460mm - will pen the armour - but bounce on the 150mm 68 degree turtleback of a German Battleship - due to autobounce. The autobounce is the reason why German Battleship are citadel-proof (which I find bullshit and retarded) - I mean common how dufuq can a T2 Mikasa with Turtleback bounce a Yamato shell - and never pens its citadel - even at full broadside. You can only citadel a German Battleship at long ranges. Plunging fire will hit the turtleback at a flatter angle and penetrate it and the citadel. Or Underwater penetration occurs - and directly hits the citadel.
What about the massive hydraulic pressure created by a large shell that detonates underwater, and then the pocket of air that it creates during the explosion, followed by the water rushing back into the void? Ships don't like huge air pockets under their keels, it tends to break their back. That's why torpedoes can do so much damage when they detonate under the keel without even touching the ship.
In this case , considering the nirmalization of AP shell, it is penatratreted with like 90 degree. In other cases, if the angle is sharper , when the armor is penatrated, is the ralative thickness should be applied to substract the armor penatration thickness or just the original thickness of the armor?
For a small scale test watch "deadly cv9040 programmable ammo of Bofors 40mm L70 canon" 1:57- 3:25 for APFSDS on the NATO heavy single 100mm RHA at 45 deg. 140mm total penetration. The video quality is crummy but one gets the point.
Quite interesting. Never really read into it but I'd like to bear about how you determine a shells penetration. You through out New York penetration amount and I assume it'll be explained eventually but it would help to know where you get those numbers or the calculation to be specific
Hmm...so this might be why I do better when down two tiers and am throwing HE at range from my BBs (to avoid shatters and cruisers bouncing my shells)... I'll have to tune in to the HE video to see if that is right though. I hadn't given though to the effect of distance on AP penetration before. I just thought it was the gun caliber being too low. Having too low of velocity and the loss from the drag hadn't been factored into my analysis....
no, it can calculate anything, and I am nearly never surprised by the outcome of a shell then it's in the air and I see the enemy ship; and if I am surpirised and look more closely, it makes sense again
but the RNG basically just determines where the shell impacts. there is no RNG for the amount of damage dealt (unlike in World of Tanks) and for the amount of penetration the shell has at a specific range (again unlike in World of Tanks)
what is the math behind the new york going from 356mm to 204mm from a distance? Is the the velocity, shell spin, or just range that affects it? How can we calculate this in game?
So does that mean that only flight time and water affects the angle and the speed of shells? It has only be stated that penetrated armor reduces the possible penetration thickness, but not trajectory and speed. (I could imagine that this is one of the abstractions to make the computations easier, but still It would be nice to know it)
I have a question since, in the video it is mentioned a couple times without really detailing the effect of the velocity on the penetration, may I assume that since it is stated that the penetration is dependent on the VELOCITY and not the VELOCITY SQUARED that it is the momentum of the shell that is what ultimately you are considering to achieve penetration and not the kinetic energy?
From the shell-penetration data shown in this video (couldn't find an actual calculation on the wargaming wiki): 18km = 204, 15km = 224, 5km = 337 And plugging this into a curve-fitting app, it follows the formula (where x is distance and y is shell-penetration): y = 420.2308 - 18.42821*x + 0.3564103*x^2 with a R^2=1 (
someone here who believe this? this is theory. it doesnt work in ingame. most of players have seen a lot of penetration they should be impossible. so keep your dreams of intelligent mechanics :)
Does it make any difference whether you fire all guns at once, or if you fire them in sequence? Is one way more accurate, or more guaranteed to penetrate than the other way?
Any way to test simulate putting reactive armor on estimated target areas the smart missile are going to attack a ship. For example, torpedeo are design to attack the midship at the keel. Some missile go for the C2 areas like the bridge....
unfortunately armor while more often than not modeled accurately in-game does not act realistically. Let's take Iowa, Alabama, and Massachusetts for example. I think we're all aware that both ships have an internal inward-inclined armor belt under a 32mm decapping plate. This decapping plate in game does nothing but make it laughably easy for SAP shells, AP shells, and HE shells of most ships of light cruiser or bigger to cause nonsensical amounts of damage. This is in spite of the fact that this belt was meant to be penetrated and still leave the ship undamaged. This plate would either tear the head off of an incoming armor piercing shell if it was equivalent to the MK8 super heavy shell fired from a MK6 16"/45cal gun. In game this plate does nothing but ensure Iowa, Alabama, and Massachusetts eat and unfair amount of penetration damage from just about every gun in the game that can pen 32mm. This is without mentioning Iowa's non-historically vulnerable citadel. While effective armor is supposedly taken into account I would ask if any of the three ships I've mentioned feel like their belt armor feels around 16-17in in effective thickness (yes despite the thin actual thicknesses of late American battleships sloping made it so their effective armor protection was much thicker than it's more modest 12.1in thickness) To put it into perspective the sloping of the armor aboard the South Dakota and Iowa class ships would act a lot like a reverse turtle back scheme deflecting all shells save for anything heavier than a MK8 super-heavy shell down into a void space where they'd detonate harmlessly. In other words in game it would feel a lot like shooting at a Bismarck except for while not penetrating their citadel you'd get very little in the way of penetration damage unless you had a 16"/50cal gun or bigger. I understand that this is for balancing and to make the German battleships unique with their almost untouchable citadels but it gives a lot of people the wrong idea about the protection of the American fast battleships. This combined with Iowa's non-historically large turning radius tend to make the ship feel like a far easier target than it should be. This isn't a call to buff Iowa or Alabama and Massachusetts but to admit for once that your game while impressive isn't very historically accurate nor is it realistic in the least. It's an arcade game through and through, and that's not a bad thing but is quite annoying when it's hailed as some ultra-realistic and historically accurate game in promotion and youtuber sponsorships.
One statistic I always struggle with in Warships is Armor Penetration for shells. Yes, a ships armor values are fairly plain to see these days, but I still have a hard time figuring out how much penetration my guns have, and thus how to most effectively employ my AP shells. At the same time, knowing how much armor my ship has is hard to take full advantage of if I can't determine how much penetration power the guns of my enemies have. That said. Is there any way to figure out how much penetration power my guns have, short of just making a training room and blasting at various ships? You mentioned with certainty the penetration power of shells used in the test against Fuso.
No offense intended, just correcting (because this should be how it works, right?) Spaced armor will likely reduced armor penetration value of an incoming AP shell. For example, if there's a 70 mm of armor and covered by 30 mm armor (which is spaced), total armor thickness should be 100 mm. But there's a chance where the effective thickness were not just because the angled shell, but also the 'space' itself became amor too (not as powerful, but effective enough). I mean, it wouldn't be just 100 mm (or more (a bit) because of angled shell), but may be more. The 'spaced' armor layers will reduce the shell's penetration abilities due to speed reduction. That's how spaced armor works against AP shell.
Explain how citadel work on shells hitting Antenna and chimney. I have being citadeled so many times behind island from shells passing through chimney and antennas.
So how is it that I can cause flooding with AP shells? Is it that the shell over penetrates and puts a hole under water when it exits? Or does the fuse need to explode below the waterline as it enters/exits the hull?
AP shells should have a small chance of water breaking in! After this explanation this is really msising, and maybe that would make them more attractive to use than HE everywhere.
I love to see trajectory of overpen making a hole underwater... And ship not drawing. Especially when you place 8 AP in a small DD who can endure AP better than a cruiser because the draw mechanic is only for torpedoes!
Totally incorrect regarding you're so called fuze activation countdown. The fuze is set to either Quick or Super-Quick features. This simply extends the distance the primer must travel but about 2mm. This slight change at incredible speed is what allows the creep spring under setback tension to move toward the primer. The small delay allows the firer the ability to detonate behind hardened structures such as the ships hull in this case. If you were to use this feature against land based or ground targets the HE blast would be absorbed more by the ground and cause less HE/Frag damage to whatever you're aining to hit on the surface. Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken but I'm fairly confident in regards to this fuzing.
1:24 Fuso's plating thickness was increased in Update 0.9.2.
9:27 Since Update 0.7.11, high caliber shells deal no more than 10% of their damage to destroyers
World of Warships.when are you devs gonna fully release french destroyers?
Hola I am here from WOW Legends lol
But how do you know that the 1:24 Shell prenetration is 204mm?
1024😮
@@alecmarciano8320 It is just a hypothetical number, New York actually has 350mm of penetration at 18km according to shiptool and 360mm according to the WoWS ballistics calculator.
Can't believe all these calculations are being initiated as you are playing in real time...
a cpu can calculate a lot more than this in milliseconds and in this case, this is most likely scripted
Simple calculations are nothing for a computer.
Says a lot about machines
Yeah
Only if you hit your target. Shell dispersion can be a bitch. Either that or I’m bad.
Almost ten minutes of the science behind Fusou’s non-consensual penetration. Poor girl must be traumatised by all this abuse.
‘non-consensual penetration’ *BOM BOM*
i will get some armor plates and welding equipment ready for her to patch her up, poor ship
Fuso: exists
WoWS: peace was never an option
Did that Fuso consent to that pounding? #MeToo #FusoLivesMatter
no i didnt, they dont pay me enough for this….but i need the money…..fuck
STOP BULLYING FUSO!
#FusoLivesMatter
#fusohatesworldofwarships
@@fuso8639 poor you :((
I am 79 and i still play this game, its so addicting.
Nice
No u aren't
nice, i hope you get to enjoy the game for the rest of your life (and that we all enjoy the game for as long as we live too), also i did not mean to be morbid, that was not my intention
This was really great. The two commentators do a perfect job of making it sound like a true science documentary and I enjoy that. Thank you World of Warships.
looks like I'm gonna have to study physics, geometry and trigonometry :)
No need for physics as it is completely wrong in this game
well, still better than in the most games.
I never knew how much detail went into the damage calculations. I'm kind blown! Amazing
How about Deck Armor? When the ship firing their shell at the maximum range, they more likely land on enemy ship's deck. That why the Super Heavy 16" AP shell with extremely low velocity ~792 m/s have nearly equal penetration value compare with Yamato 18" AP at long range fire.
Was this mechanic transparent and obvious?:)
Did you learn anything new? What other mechanics you want to know about?
...apparently AP shells also have something to do with the 1/6 shell diameter calculation O_o
World of Warships Official Channel OK so next time is HE shells... I suppose after that you will do the "Damage calculation" video?
But can you explain BBs Germany Citadel armor?
it would be nice, when the stats of a ship Show, how many armor a Shell can penetrate at 5 - 10 - 15 - 20 km. i think that could help many Players to understand why a shel dont do any dmg. - Thank you guys for the Video
Better question. What about 0 damage pens on full HP ships? For me 1/3pens in every game dont deal damage.
Or sometime 2 hist 1 pen + 1overpen deals 9500 damage (With Alsase last time) where they take this number? For Alsase is 1 pen cca 4000k damage and overpen 1400 = 5400 ...
I’m impressed the game is able to run that code and math in milliseconds of what’s actually going on. It’s insane how games really work behind the scenes
This video is what sold me on the game. I was convinced it was super unrealistic, especially with my bad experiences playing WoT Blitz, but what isnt seen in typical WoW gameplay videos is the attention to game mechanics like this. Ive even heard about armor schemes coming into effect from other sources, and was amazed that the game, despite the stereotype of having HP bars for ships, actually has more realism than is seen at face value. I guess it is worth a try for me
Man, this video really shows the complexity of armor penetration mechanics of the game, which I found really amazing. And all of this calculation is only from a single shell, whereas a ship can send up to 12 shells per salvo. Really made you think how powerful the computer to calculate all this (or thousands of monkeys with basic maths employed to calculate). Minotaur will put a lot of calculation per minutes.
But still, RNG plays the most part of this.
I understand that whilst very complex, they have still over simplified a few things.
For an example a shell penetrating above the water won't hit any portion of the anti-torpedo defence.
Yes it will hit hull plating which is located behind the belt,
However that hull plating is not made of armor quality steel, and so provides significantly less resistance than the plate thickness would lead one to think.
To the point that ship designers never included that steel as counting towards belt thickness.
Whilst the system that they use includes shell normalization, it doesn't seem to take into account decapping or yaw (maybe this is addressed in another video?)
great. Now give Graf Spee her 40mm Belt, that she had IRL.
Spee belt 50-75mm, depending on location
Give her also 18km range, 15s reload, place her in T8 and all be fine!
*german superiority i love it*
EEERRRİİKKKAAAA(bum bum bum)
Arktos der böse Schneemann this but unironically
Someone should have told these WW2 engineers that the most successful BB armor scheme would be to have 30mm plating everywhere to defeat most HE, and other than that, a 450mm torpedo bulge.
That said, why doesn't the "trigger" for the AP shells happen on the pen/6 rule AS the shell is losing pen from passing through layers? I mean, based on this video, a large-caliber BB could hit an Atlanta right in the face, have it go through the ENTIRE length of the ship, out the aft, and only deal 1K dmg?
First off, I would love to take a Brooklyn against your BB, you're in big trouble, at least in the real world, maybe not WoW. Also, you've just more than doubled the weight used for armor, were are you shaving weights from?
A thick torpedo bulge is worse than none. Torpedoes normally hit well below the belt armor, designed to protect the waterline, usually extends at thickness only around 6 - 8' below. Hits on belt thickness will cause all of the explosive energy to transfer to the plates, causing dislocation of the plates and damage and dislocation to supporting structure, many irreparable small leaks as well as shock damage taking out any systems in the vicinity. Much more dangerous the deeper the hit.
The torpedo protection system extends from the base of the belt to the curve of the bilge, 15-30' depending on the ship and location of the hit. They are designed to vent and/or absorb the blast energy and resulting splinters, using alternating layers of thin structured voids and liquid filled spaces (fuel oil usually) without damaging the inner bulkhead.
Sometimes thin crushing tubes were used, a neat idea that unfortunately didn't work, blast usually venting before the tubes crushed. The Itallian system was the worst example, with little provision for venting the blast took out the structure before the tubes crushed.
Where these systems failed was either when they were hit multiple times, when design was not deep enough and were blown thru, (cruiser bulges do not provide any protection), or by bad joint design (Yamato's the worst, although the South Dakota/Iowa/Montana/Midway system also had issues)
@@grathian and how do you plan on sinking a bb with a Brooklyn you can't sink a battleship by just shooting the superstructure.
Having played since the start of the Open Beta, I still learn new things from these videos, very well done.
These How it Works videos should be mandatory viewing for new players.
Keep up the good work.
Great series of videos that answers a lot of questions about the game mechanics.
I would like to see all the Infos and statistiks in Game.. or at least in an list. I want to see ho much Armor my Shells (HE and AP) can penatrate and how much armor it needs to explode.. sadly its not a thing :c
HE is actually easy (for german cruisers, battleships and british battleships 1/4 and for the rest 1/6 of the caliber, multiplied by the IFHE factor is taken, in the end you need .5mm more than the plate is thick)
AP is pretty hard to calculate because you need to put the Krupp value, the shell weight and the impact velocity into a formula...so yeah, not really easy, but it would be good if we could see the shell weight, the krupp value and the drag coefficient in the port
Kuhluh where did u get those 1/4 and 1/6? Where can i read FULL stats bout my ship?
you can see ALL stats about your ship on third party websites (they datamined it, so they went into the gamecode and looked it up)
and there are a lot of informations on WGs wiki (wiki. wargaming. net (without the spaces, I don't know if links are allowed here))
Actually those values shouldnt change too much for any given ship. So they could just display the Penetration of the ships AP shells in the port at certain ranges, say 5/10/15/20 KM where applicable. Its just not ok that we have to look around on 3rd party websites to find such crucial information.
Router Problem oh my dude R.I.P english grammar
Thank you very much for this information! Please continue in your efforts to educate the community.
Great work with this video, fully professional!
But people who watched this: dont snipe 18km+ becose you cant be hit hard. You can't hithard as well. Angling is the answer, not the distances.
Depends on the ship. I have found that with my N/C with ap rounds under 15 km I over pen & at 20 km my shells disperse so much lucky if 1 - 2 shells frm full salvo lands. I try too stay about 17 - 18 km frm target at that distance with N/C I get more citadels frm most ships
BB usually still able to citadel most cruiser even at max range. Also hitting the superstructure could possibly net a good damage.
Sniping is ok, but camping is another matter.
My yamato disagree with u
sniping is good if you know what you're doing.
that guy with the NC for example.
also some distance can lead to plunging fire shot which ship's deck armor are usually thinner, thus, citadel hits
sniping for 5 minutes in a row, however, isn't good. that's camping
I love world of warships 😄
Same,pog
Me To But Mobile
*COUGH YAMATO CHEEK ARMOUR COUGH*
*COUGH IOWA 16mm AFT CITADEL ARMOUR COUGH*
thats a thing? i did not know that
There is a 287mm citadel aft armour on Iowa - but the lower portion of it is only a disgusting 16mm. I checked the blueprints and it is historical accurate.
However WG incorrectly models Iowa’s aft. As Iowa’s armoured steering rooms on her aft - are actually connected to the main citadel (a ww1 era battlecruiser trait)- by a 300mm belt - with 216mm aft armour (similar to Amagi) . This is what would have protected the 16mm citadel weakness - but since wg does not model that, BB shells can overmatch that 16mm and pen at any angle.
Chng He Meng yep all the complaining about the tier 10 RN BB . while yammy can city every ship from the front back and sides 😃
Yammy can cit sides??? I dare you to say that against Kurfurst and the rest of the German BB lines at close-mid ranges.
Plus the same 45 degree technique in hitting Yammies Cheeks - also apply to other battleships with crap athwartship armour - especially to citadel proof German Battleships.
some shell has some time to reach "deeper" into a ship
ooof sounds kinda painful to me
I have to give the game devs credit for this. They did a very good job. Always been bias to war thunder but these guys are not slouching by any means.
They block metal things flying to you
Yes
It's actually entertaining and educational, although many of the factors in play are hidden, starting from the armor penetration capability of shells at certain distances. I speak about data available in-game, and not whether it can or can not be found on non-affiliated websites. I didn't check, so I don't know; but I suppose that data could be only approximations anyway.
So, I just thought to myself, what if, when you move your aiming reticule over an enemy ship you'd see an approximation in-game, something a bit similar to WoT: Red - bounce, Yellow - hit, but citadel hit is unlikely/impossible, Green - citadel hit is possible, Blue/Orange/Purple/Octarine/Whatever - overpenetration is likely.
1. It doesn't have to take all factors into account, thus you still would need experience to anticipate the possible outcomes of a hit on that point, and
2. You still would have to actually hit that point which is increasingly difficuly as range increases. So it wouldn't be OP, in my opinion.
I like these videos, definitely helps us who simply have a harder time in understanding TH-camrs who do try to help us all out. But without an even better way to show us how it works, some of us potatoes (like me :D) can't grasp the concept as clearly and we just go with what we know. Keep`em coming and KEEP`EM FIRING!
uhh... to be more realistic, if the shell hits the bridge on the superstructure, there will be no captain and the ship is under no-ones command, therefore almost inoperable
Best series about the game imho 👍👍👍
I used to play this game all the time 7-8yrs ago, amazing to see all the details that it has (now?) defo want to get back in!
BOI I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS THANK GOD FOR THIS SERIES
an addition to this video would be to show the cruiser shells that you mentioned earlier about how they had steeper ricochet angles. might not hurt to explain this to some players as well.
only americans cruisers can pen over 33degrees +staligrad
its crazy how much these sound and look like real documentaries.
I'm not an elite player but these videos have made me much better.
I like it how you guys animate it
Look, all I know is that when an Emerald shows me their juicy broadside in my Graf Spee, they go BANG.
This multiplication is better than math👍
Fun fact, British Battleship Duke of York also has enhanced penetration angles, the same as the US CAs in fact
I regret, that I only have one like to give.
So shouldn’t over pens cause flooding then if the shell hits at the right angle and goes out through the other side under water?
I think this video left me with more questions than answers.
*Shell overpenetrates through captain's quarters*
Captain: "STOP PUTTING HOLES IN MY SHIP!"
I came her for clarification, instead i left even more confused
Moar Fuso abuse...
John Angelo Tenorio abuse award
Don't worry. We will be getting some spicy Fuso abuse soon.
*GOOD*
#FusoLivesMatter
I have a question. First, if a shell hits a specific point of the armor, you need to know the angle. How do you tell the angle of the ships armor in 1 point? Second, 2 angles needed, a horizontal, and a vertical, then how do you calculate the relative armor thickness in 3D with 2 angles?
nope if the enemy shell has better angle penetrates if the enemy shell is big it overmaches no matter the angle simple as that in the game
Where can we find the stats like angle normalization for our ships guns?
Love every how it works video. Hope this never ends . I have new York bit never been against fuzo
awesome stuff. Keep it coming, posting this playlist on my clans gamepage for mandatory viewing :)
what if I don't penetrate enemy ship? WOT players: LOAD PREMIUM!!!
HWG literally pay to win
Yeah!! Premium is everything..😂😂😂😂😂😂
HWG I’d leave this game if it went to needing premium ammo etc
Would be nice if you described how to use this information. I mean I know how, but its math, looking at EACH ship and doing calculations for dozens of possible scenarios, and remembering that at time of play.
Something simpler like. "Shooting bow or stern with heavy ammo is a waste" or "shoot under turrets if close, but shoot structure if at max range" and then let people use this info and that general guideline to get better. in other words some general conclusions would be nice. I realize that explaining how to shoot all ships with each type ammo and range would take weeks of videos, but something would be helpful.
Truly awesome !..
So the shell has a timer to detonate... And it doesn't "just disappear" when hitting water !!..
This videos are awesome, Thanks for making them!
The amount of Armour a shell can penetrate is a function of the shell type, velocity and the distance from the firing ship to the target. As you get closer to the target the penetration factor goes up. How to you know what the penetration of a shell at any given time or do we just not bother trying. My sense is to just worry about the enemy ships armour and aim for soft bits? Good video
Oh come on! Not Fuso!!
What about turtle back armour
Fuso has turtleback armour as you can see here... 6:50 - and it gets its turtleback citadel penetrated... nothing special...
you are probably thinking about German BBs. The relative armor comes into play. German turtle back has more sloping so the relative armor is much higher preventing the shells from getting into the citadel.
Oh if you mean German BB Turtlebacks... Their Turtlebacks are inclined to 68 degrees...
Our Autobounce is 60 degrees. Meaning a Yamato with 900mm pen at point blank with a 460mm - will pen the armour - but bounce on the 150mm 68 degree turtleback of a German Battleship - due to autobounce.
The autobounce is the reason why German Battleship are citadel-proof (which I find bullshit and retarded) - I mean common how dufuq can a T2 Mikasa with Turtleback bounce a Yamato shell - and never pens its citadel - even at full broadside.
You can only citadel a German Battleship at long ranges. Plunging fire will hit the turtleback at a flatter angle and penetrate it and the citadel. Or Underwater penetration occurs - and directly hits the citadel.
know I know what to do when the game finishes downloading and I start my first battle
:)
Still there?
How was the first battle?
The bulkheads are at least 50 to 300mm thick so thats why irl its near impossible to completely penetrate a ship’s both armor plates from both sides
What about the massive hydraulic pressure created by a large shell that detonates underwater, and then the pocket of air that it creates during the explosion, followed by the water rushing back into the void? Ships don't like huge air pockets under their keels, it tends to break their back. That's why torpedoes can do so much damage when they detonate under the keel without even touching the ship.
Great presentation and very well explained... well done
In this case , considering the nirmalization of AP shell, it is penatratreted with like 90 degree. In other cases, if the angle is sharper , when the armor is penatrated, is the ralative thickness should be applied to substract the armor penatration thickness or just the original thickness of the armor?
For a small scale test watch "deadly cv9040 programmable ammo of Bofors 40mm L70 canon" 1:57- 3:25 for APFSDS on the NATO heavy single 100mm RHA at 45 deg. 140mm total penetration. The video quality is crummy but one gets the point.
Quite interesting. Never really read into it but I'd like to bear about how you determine a shells penetration. You through out New York penetration amount and I assume it'll be explained eventually but it would help to know where you get those numbers or the calculation to be specific
Keep working. I will watch for next one.
Hmm...so this might be why I do better when down two tiers and am throwing HE at range from my BBs (to avoid shatters and cruisers bouncing my shells)...
I'll have to tune in to the HE video to see if that is right though.
I hadn't given though to the effect of distance on AP penetration before. I just thought it was the gun caliber being too low. Having too low of velocity and the loss from the drag hadn't been factored into my analysis....
Hey that was my favourite video so far
Its like your watching a disovery program. I love it.
Or simply
RNG
no, it can calculate anything, and I am nearly never surprised by the outcome of a shell then it's in the air and I see the enemy ship; and if I am surpirised and look more closely, it makes sense again
Hey, shells dispersion. Calculates that. RNG exist for a reason bruv
another RNG guy. This is just a boring excuse.
but the RNG basically just determines where the shell impacts. there is no RNG for the amount of damage dealt (unlike in World of Tanks) and for the amount of penetration the shell has at a specific range (again unlike in World of Tanks)
Sicklehead88 yeah I thought WoT RNG was the same in WoWs
what is the math behind the new york going from 356mm to 204mm from a distance? Is the the velocity, shell spin, or just range that affects it? How can we calculate this in game?
So does that mean that only flight time and water affects the angle and the speed of shells? It has only be stated that penetrated armor reduces the possible penetration thickness, but not trajectory and speed. (I could imagine that this is one of the abstractions to make the computations easier, but still It would be nice to know it)
I have a question since, in the video it is mentioned a couple times without really detailing the effect of the velocity on the penetration, may I assume that since it is stated that the penetration is dependent on the VELOCITY and not the VELOCITY SQUARED that it is the momentum of the shell that is what ultimately you are considering to achieve penetration and not the kinetic energy?
From the shell-penetration data shown in this video (couldn't find an actual calculation on the wargaming wiki):
18km = 204, 15km = 224, 5km = 337
And plugging this into a curve-fitting app, it follows the formula (where x is distance and y is shell-penetration):
y = 420.2308 - 18.42821*x + 0.3564103*x^2 with a R^2=1 (
someone here who believe this? this is theory. it doesnt work in ingame. most of players have seen a lot of penetration they should be impossible. so keep your dreams of intelligent mechanics :)
Nice video to explain to veteran and new players :)
I find it hard to believe that a shells penetration drops equally by the amount of armor it hits, in real life that is.
Lot of work for a free game, love it
Are all of these tips aplicable to the console (ps4) version of the game aswell?
Yes, this is a game mechanic used in all versions.
penetration is my expertise. love this game till now.. learns alot. 😁
Does it make any difference whether you fire all guns at once, or if you fire them in sequence? Is one way more accurate, or more guaranteed to penetrate than the other way?
Great Video. Well done!
Quick question! Do shells only normalise on impact with the first layer of armour or will the shell normalise on each layer of armour?
Few games have videos like this from their devs. thanks for the hard work
tl;dr: shoot at the enemy ships' citadels and hope for the best lol
I love your game, world of warships! So addicting, thanks lol
Any way to test simulate putting reactive armor on estimated target areas the smart missile are going to attack a ship. For example, torpedeo are design to attack the midship at the keel. Some missile go for the C2 areas like the bridge....
A very good explanation, ty for your effort
unfortunately armor while more often than not modeled accurately in-game does not act realistically. Let's take Iowa, Alabama, and Massachusetts for example. I think we're all aware that both ships have an internal inward-inclined armor belt under a 32mm decapping plate. This decapping plate in game does nothing but make it laughably easy for SAP shells, AP shells, and HE shells of most ships of light cruiser or bigger to cause nonsensical amounts of damage. This is in spite of the fact that this belt was meant to be penetrated and still leave the ship undamaged. This plate would either tear the head off of an incoming armor piercing shell if it was equivalent to the MK8 super heavy shell fired from a MK6 16"/45cal gun. In game this plate does nothing but ensure Iowa, Alabama, and Massachusetts eat and unfair amount of penetration damage from just about every gun in the game that can pen 32mm. This is without mentioning Iowa's non-historically vulnerable citadel. While effective armor is supposedly taken into account I would ask if any of the three ships I've mentioned feel like their belt armor feels around 16-17in in effective thickness (yes despite the thin actual thicknesses of late American battleships sloping made it so their effective armor protection was much thicker than it's more modest 12.1in thickness) To put it into perspective the sloping of the armor aboard the South Dakota and Iowa class ships would act a lot like a reverse turtle back scheme deflecting all shells save for anything heavier than a MK8 super-heavy shell down into a void space where they'd detonate harmlessly. In other words in game it would feel a lot like shooting at a Bismarck except for while not penetrating their citadel you'd get very little in the way of penetration damage unless you had a 16"/50cal gun or bigger. I understand that this is for balancing and to make the German battleships unique with their almost untouchable citadels but it gives a lot of people the wrong idea about the protection of the American fast battleships. This combined with Iowa's non-historically large turning radius tend to make the ship feel like a far easier target than it should be. This isn't a call to buff Iowa or Alabama and Massachusetts but to admit for once that your game while impressive isn't very historically accurate nor is it realistic in the least. It's an arcade game through and through, and that's not a bad thing but is quite annoying when it's hailed as some ultra-realistic and historically accurate game in promotion and youtuber sponsorships.
One statistic I always struggle with in Warships is Armor Penetration for shells.
Yes, a ships armor values are fairly plain to see these days, but I still have a hard time figuring out how much penetration my guns have, and thus how to most effectively employ my AP shells.
At the same time, knowing how much armor my ship has is hard to take full advantage of if I can't determine how much penetration power the guns of my enemies have.
That said. Is there any way to figure out how much penetration power my guns have, short of just making a training room and blasting at various ships? You mentioned with certainty the penetration power of shells used in the test against Fuso.
Rain Diamondheart google: WoWs reddit Ap pentration curves
Is there a video like this for WoWS: Legends? At least what the icons mean when you hit a ship
Can you add statistics for gun penetration over range...hopefully then i can select my targets more precisely?
Really cool, but I'd like the same detailed explanation for Turtle back.
Whenever my parents says "games don't teach anything" I just simply put this video on TV and then wait...
I came here for lewd innuendos but instead, I got educated.
No offense intended, just correcting (because this should be how it works, right?)
Spaced armor will likely reduced armor penetration value of an incoming AP shell. For example, if there's a 70 mm of armor and covered by 30 mm armor (which is spaced), total armor thickness should be 100 mm. But there's a chance where the effective thickness were not just because the angled shell, but also the 'space' itself became amor too (not as powerful, but effective enough). I mean, it wouldn't be just 100 mm (or more (a bit) because of angled shell), but may be more. The 'spaced' armor layers will reduce the shell's penetration abilities due to speed reduction. That's how spaced armor works against AP shell.
Explain how citadel work on shells hitting Antenna and chimney.
I have being citadeled so many times behind island from shells passing through chimney and antennas.
So how is it that I can cause flooding with AP shells? Is it that the shell over penetrates and puts a hole under water when it exits? Or does the fuse need to explode below the waterline as it enters/exits the hull?
AP shells should have a small chance of water breaking in! After this explanation this is really msising, and maybe that would make them more attractive to use than HE everywhere.
I love to see trajectory of overpen making a hole underwater... And ship not drawing. Especially when you place 8 AP in a small DD who can endure AP better than a cruiser because the draw mechanic is only for torpedoes!
Totally incorrect regarding you're so called fuze activation countdown.
The fuze is set to either Quick or Super-Quick features. This simply extends the distance the primer must travel but about 2mm. This slight change at incredible speed is what allows the creep spring under setback tension to move toward the primer. The small delay allows the firer the ability to detonate behind hardened structures such as the ships hull in this case. If you were to use this feature against land based or ground targets the HE blast would be absorbed more by the ground and cause less HE/Frag damage to whatever you're aining to hit on the surface.
Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken but I'm fairly confident in regards to this fuzing.
this is a good start. Thanks!