I've been using ultra 40:1 non ethonal for years and have no excessive carbon build up issues whatsoever. All of my saws have been pulled apart at some time or another and they stay clean. Not saying your not experiencing what your experiencing but I have been having no issues with the ultra.
I started out 40 years ago just running whatever oil was cheapest. In 2004 I bought two huskys. One a 372xp, and the other don't remember what model, but smaller. Started using red line racing because it was a favorite with the fallers in my neighborhood. Used red line exclusively until last year when I got a new 261. They gave me a 6 pack of the "pond water" and used it for a bit. Have a hot saw that sat with the hp ultra in it for a couple of months or so and it didn't want to start when I needed to cut some steel. Poured the swamp mix out and filled it with some years old red line mix and ran like new. I also have bicycle motor on a huffy that sat year after year with half a tank of red line outside in all kinds of weather and it fired up and ran. Always 32 to one. I'm by no means an expert, but that's my experience. Will not use the pond water again. BTW the everything still starts and runs. Subbed your channel.
I had Motomix plug the spark arrestor up on my SH-85 blower. I temporarily pulled the arrestor out until I use my supply of Motomix up, then I'm switching to Red Armor. It smoothed my 42 year old Lawn-Boy out noticeably on just one tank.
@@johnm9005 are you gonna keep it there or try 80 or 100 to 1? My buddy has been running 100:1 in his dirt bike since he bought it. He’s had no problems. He runs it pretty hard too. I’m just curious what everyone does
@@ryannogle7241 I am going to stay at 50:1. I run these saws pretty hard, professionally for lack of a better term and check things out as I have them apart. 🤷 100:1 scares me.
I've used stihl mix for years and happen to have a ms261 and pulled out apart to take base gasket out and muffler mod it and it was cleaner than that. Not saying ultra is a awesome oil, just saying i didn't have any issues and have ran it in 30+saws for logging and I use it because it's convenient and haven't had any problems. Just my experience with it
Would that be hp ultra made in germany? I've a funny feeling that it's a better oil than the US made oil.. I can't understand why stihl, if they really wanted to promote hp ultra as its best oil is only rated jaso fb? Also here in Europe there is zero info on the ultra container I wonder why? Hp super has all the info and is jaso fd rated. I'm going to go with super.
They set mine up pretty lean at Napa. Took off caps and adjusted richer and opened up exhaust after 2 years and it still runs great 12 years later. It was turned up wide open but on lean side. I topped off the cap when I got it. Think it was set to slowly burn up. I still use that grey synthetic on it. It where they turn them up to burn up a little after warranty. Mine was
I really like the amsoil saber. I took my muffler off of my 2 year old 461 and it’s immaculate. I mix the saber at 50:1. I’ve noticed that the ultra pond water makes them idle fast and has detonation vs using amsoil saber or any other fd oil.
Keep it up👍🏻 can't argue with results! Stihl definitely has a solid portion of blind fans! While I'm far from loyal to the brand, I do like their machines. Just never believed everything that says Stihl must be the best!
Kinda like Harley Davidson. They want everyone to believe that everything branded Harley is the absolute best there is. NOT! NO WAY! Love Stihl equipment but run Amsoil Saber, for about 15 years, on 4 different saws. Never, ever had any issue whatsoever. Pistons look like new, all 4 run like new money.
@@whatsapoop yep! I've ran many gallons mixed with saber at 45:1 with absolutely no complaints, it's definitely a great oil! But I do enjoy trying different things and am currently running maxima castor 927 at 32:1🤪 surprisingly clean burning and love the smell!
Car mechanic turned chainsaw mechanic, Now an arborist. When I was fixing saws at a Stihl and husky dealer you would not believe how many people would bring there saws in and say oh it’s got good compression it’s fine, and then I’d take the muffler off to look in and find a cooked piston or scored walls, it’s unbelievable how many people don’t check down the exhaust hole! It blew my mind. Seriously 2-4 bolts/screws and the mufflers off and you can get a really good idea what’s going on with your unit. Folks take your exhaust off periodically and have a look! It always tells the truth. I’d get alot of top end rebuilds from taking exhaust off and showing customers pictures or in person hey look your saw is cooked. Take care and stay safe everyone!
Great video glad I found and subscribed to you tons of great information! I used to use the hp ultra but have switched to the klotz small engine 50:1 oil loved there oils in my 2 stroke dirt bikes figured I’d try the small engine 50:1 so far very clean burning and great lubrication!
I've ran stihl ultra for years and so does my dad and my grandpa we've never blown a 2 stroke up. We always get ALL of the oil out of the jug though. Dump the oil into the gas can then dump gas in the oil bottle put cap on and shake it good then dump into the gas jug. I've had several of our saws apart and they look new inside.
Same here… recently started with amsoil…. Better, I noticed piston lubed with film of oil even after sitting and much more cleaner exhaust… way cleaner
@@vdog4799 its full syntetic...all top oils are now, i think he uses Amsoil Saber.. its rated for up to 100:1 ratio.i recently switched to it, trying 80:1 and might go down to 50:1
I used the Stihl orange bottles for decades without problems and recently started trying VP as in VP racing fuels. It's a fd rated synthetic and so it seems okay, I haven't had reason to look seriously so far for deposits.
@Richard Flagg - have you seen any issues with the 4-cycle engines? I have a 111 Kombi that has run exclusively on the Ultra with non-ethanol premium. I haven't had any problems. But, first thing I did was remove the screen and the limiters on the carb. BTW, that saw you ran in this video sounded lean to me. An old mechanic guru once taught me how to set the mixture screws: Get it warmed up. Run it with no load wide open and lean out the high speed until it sings and then richen it up to the point it starts to 4-cycle. It should then pull clean under load. Adjust the idle speed and mixture for good idle and off idle response. I burn 20 cord a year and run Evinrude - Johnson Premium Synthetic at 32:1 in all my 2-strokes; chainsaws, weed whips, snowmobile (injection + some oil in the gas), dirt bikes. As long as the carb is tuned right I've never fouled a plug. I've never had a problem with any of them. Roger DeCoster ran a dyno test in Dirt Bike Magazine back in the 80's comparing oil mix ratios. HP improved all the way down to 5:1, but plug fouling became an issue around 12:1.
I'm not a fan of stihl ultra. I have found if the saw is ran hard enough, such a running a ms660 with a 42 inch bar, .404 chain full comp, in a saw mill application that it will burn quite clean mixed at 50:1. As soon as the saw has some idle time on it, stihl ultra starts leaving deposits. The worst I seen was my ms241c that I climbed with, running ultra mix oil. That saw idled alot, after about 25 gallons of gas, the piston became carbon scored, ring grooves sluged with carbon. Switched to echo red armor 6 years ago, and have realistically ran over a thousand gallons of mix gas in that time till now, no issues.
Thank you very much for this video, from somewhere in Europe! I wonder if part of the problem might be that people are not doing the calibration? I only ask because my ms 261 started off life with Ultra for a couple years of heavy use, and now (kind of accidentally) I use the HP Super. I have experienced zero issues and have gone to the trouble of doing an annual service with a Stihl dealership with no reported issues.
The motorcycle oils in general seem to be better. More money on the line is just a guess. Buying by the quart and measuring yourself will save a lot. Most of the 1 gallon 2.6 oz. pre-mix bottles will run you about $50ish per quart if you do the math.
@@richardflagg3084 I bought 2 cases last year when it was on sale for 7.99 for 16oz bottle. Normally its around 10-11 at Rocky Mountain ATV. I call it Smurfs Blood since it turns the gas blue lol. Stihl has got people bent over the counter when they buy that oil.
Richard I enjoyed the video and our conversation in the past about oils and jaso ratings. I'm convinced the ultra Is being pushed for environmental reasons over anything. How can they claim a jaso fb oil like ultra is superior to a jaso fd like super? I know you said you can't get hp super in the US I get that. The pond water as you call it, it looks miserable like green tea or something. I'm going back to hp super anyway it's fd rated and has a low smoke and fuel stabiliser and has a fantastic bright green colour to it.. I Really like your honesty and input. Subscribed and thank you for the video.
I agree on the Stihl ultra Been having problems with dry pistons and carbon build up. But I wounder if it is not the additives and ethanol in gas that does something to the Stihl ultra oil. I have noticed on my Km 131 4mix I run the Stihl canned fuel and don't have problems. Would be interesting to see results in running that Stihl canned fuel moto mix in chainsaws for long periods of time.
There used to be a sign hanging in the local Stihl dealership that stated Stihl ultra does not mix well with ethanol gas. They took the sign down my guess cause it was cutting into their repair business. That guy that owns the dealership told me that 90 percent of the problems he sees are caused by fuel related issues. Buy a quality oil. Red Armor is great stuff. What's your time worth? Are you really going to stick ethanol in your $1000 saw?
Stihl hp ultra was specifically designed for the 4-mix machines. Before that they had decarbonizing fluid that dealers used to remove carbon on 4-mix engines that were ran with dyno oil. Seems they decided it just made more sense to put it in the oil instead. This and the fact that hp ulta is bio-degradable might be why regular two strokes seem to not like it is as much. 🤷♂️.
Ahh...Gotcha, Sounds like a very interesting affair...Is it open to the "public"? Seems like something i would enjoy...lots of neat things to see & checkout, etc.! And a big "Thank you" on such a prompt reply, Sir! I've been watching quite of few interesting & informative how-to & OPE related channels for quite some time now, but only recently "discovered" your content/ channel. I very much appreciate the time/ effort/ & knowledge that you put forth & "share" with us viewers who are still learning. As another viewer stated previously, (I too) Really like & appreciate the straight forward, call-it-like-you-see it, No B.S. style. And for all the "Trolls" out there, if ya don't like/ agree with anyone, you can either Not watch/ subscribe to their content/ channel or, better yet, take the time/ effort to try & "prove" why you disagree! Thank you again, Sir! And I look forward to new content...Hope you have a Great Sunday!
Thank you for the kind words. The 2023 TCIA Expo will be in St Louis next year, and it is open to the public. Just need to register in advance or at the event. Admission this year was $25 for the weekend. Very cool show. Too much to see in a day tho.
Richard, do YOU think that ANY of the Stihl 2pc mufflers would bolt on to a 372 cylinder? BTW, I like to run (approximately) 32-1 but with RedArmor Echo oil. I tried the Stihl silver bottle oil but I (personally) could not see any advantage to it except that it made my wallet lighter. BUT, I DID see the advantage in the Echo RedArmor. It’s claims about cleaning the carbon out AND making it softer were well founded. I LIKE that oil for sure.
I run the hp ultra at 32:1 and my machines are still going strong, I haven’t had any issues with scoring or buildup, I do periodically take off the muffler to verify the condition, I’ve got a large case of hp ultra from working as a stihl dealer. Everybody has an oil they trust, if it works, I’d say stick with what you’re familiar with and trust. I will probably try another oil once I use up my case.
Richard, you and I appear to be about the same age, been servicing and repairing saws for 42 years you know full well there are these young book smart types that come on the scene almost everyday thinking they know it all but the very first time a issue or a problem that wasn’t covered in the class room book or discussion they are lost as hell calling for their mommy to rescue them, don’t let the haters bother you, they actually don’t have the confidence in their own ability to stand their ground on the opinion they subscribe to when the chain meets the wood … I agree with you …!
I agree with the above. Experience can partly be learned, but the experience built up over the years is priceless. Allow me to share my experience on the subject. Aspen four-stroke fuel and the Stihl, both alkylate fuels. In combination with Amsoil Saber or the Interceptor are a combination that cannot be better than one could wish for. As I describe it, it is pure efficiency, very thermally stable, no dry crankcase, clean combustion, unprecedented lubrication properties. Just like the Amso, other products are applicable. A screamer that won't stop in a reliable way. Regards.
The wife bought a weedeater a few months ago and we bought the 6 pack of ultra to get the extended warranty. Going to give it to a neighbor that I don't particularly like for Xmas, lol.
Just because you Do not have a licensed product dose not mean you do not have a good product remember dirt is the enemy not the oil that is what I was trying to point out.
Absolutely! In regards to JASO, it's a certification based on standardized testing. Similar to API certifications here in the US for motor oil. The Japanese filled a niche not covered under API for two stroke oils and engine oils that had to double as clutch lubricant. Thanks for the comments, Rich.
The outside of my chainsaw looks like this one, but the inside and exhaust look brand new. Amsoil Saber and Quickshot. The real beauty of it, is that you can't mix it wrong!!
40:1 for me brother...and not Ultra. I use plenty of different oils but not Ultra. I go 32:1 for a few tanks on a new saw then 40:1. I like your videos...trolls just need lives of their own.
I'll be honest, I usually don't stir things up. Most of the off the wall comments come from folks that don't have content, just an opinion sitting at their keyboard, not a workbench. Those who work on this stuff and professionals that make a living with a saw already know. 😎
How about piston crown wash, do you read the piston crown? I've been using the same oem synthetic type 2T oil in my saws, etc. as I run in my 950cc 2-stroke without any issues. Supposedly it's rated api-tc although nowhere on the bottle are there any ratings. The 950cc does show some similar coking on the piston skirt, haven't looked at the saws but don't recall any.
I looked up amsoil dominator that I use successfully in my dirt bike and power equipment. It's FC rated. You recommend FD rated oil. What's the difference?
FD rating requires a better detergent package. Dominator still burns very clean in my experience. Not as clean as Saber tho. It's Amsoil's FD rated oil for air cooled
I get a good laugh out of Stihl owners and dealers. They think that all their equipment and products are the best. Too bad it isn't true. I have never owned a pro quality Stihl saw, but all the user grade ones I have had, wore out and or failed in short order. I made the mistake of using their oil to keep the warranty in effect. When I tore them down, I discovered the same problems you have shown in your video's. If I had any of that oil left, I would use it as expensive weed killer, as you mentioned that it is biodegradable. It has to be good for something! I am starting to use Red Armor now, so far, so good.
Richard at this point I would say that for those of willing to listen you have made your point and your effort to do so is appreciated! But here’s the question.. we know saber is great and schaffers is great (I’m running saber myself) but what oil can we point people towards other then ultra that is just as readily available?? Lucas, husqvarna, red armor? Stuff along that line that anybody can run to town and grab same day.
The Echo Power Blend and Red Armor are FD rated, as id the Husqvarna XP+. I've tested all three and they did very well and are readily available. I'll include that in the next video. Thank You
Red Armor available on eBay. Shipped to your door. Plan ahead and don't run out that's easier than scrambling for oil when the shelf is empty at the store.
@@supersportimpalass who can stand their stupid measuring bottles. If you read the Saber bottle it confuses the hell out of you. Why not just put the stuff in 2.6 ounce bottle and call it good? 2.6 ounces of Red Armor and . 8 gallons makes 40 to 1. No guessing. No complicated formulas. No BS!!
You got me worried now. I own a tree service and have a small fortune in saws. I've always used full synthetic stihl oil, 91 octane with no ethanol, and a splash of sea foam in a 2 gallon jug.
Pull the muffler or the front cover and have a peek inside. The seafoam you add is a good idea regardless of which oil you run. I'd look into getting a few quarts of Amsoil Saber if you can source it locally. I work at a tree service two days a week and have for years. Hands down it's one of the best oils money can buy. Smells a lot better than ultra too. Buying it by the quart will save you a ton of money compared to premeasured oil. Just buy a rite ratio measuring cup at a cycle shop. Most premeasured oil runs about $45-60 quart if you do the math.
Had a guy bring in a 391 to me he ran ultra in. Wasn't as bad as the ones you showed, but I have never seen so much carbon in the combustion chamber and on top of a piston before in my life.
That's an FB rated oi for ya. The FD rated oils have to have a detergent package to keep the engine clean without sacrificing lubrication. All the other OPE manufactures have improved the oil. Not sure what Stihl is waiting on....
I own a tree service. I run 110 race fuel in all my 2 strokes, and I'm happy with penzoil...so far. The brain dead insist that I'll "burn my saw up" running race gas. I'll keep trying to prove them right
Race fuel is actually less explosive compared to low octane fuel. I have noticed that saws run with more power on low octane fuels. I don’t think that 110 octane is necessary unless your saws are modified, for instance a spark timing advance may detonate low octane fuels and trash your saw.
I'm just amazed people still mix gas. I've never come across a professional tree service in my neck of the woods who don't run alkylate like Aspen 2 or similar. We don't winterize our 2 stroke equipment either and the membranes stay nice and plyable as long as they don't dry out.
After stihl ultra gunked up my efco 962 951 946 4400 and also my ms362c i switched all my stuff over to redline and its clean as a whistle. I couldnt believe how nasty the piston and exhaust ports on everything was with the ultra. Will never run it again.
I bought a couple stihls and the 171 acted up after only one year and a few cords. I`d used stihl oil exclusively. Screen was plugged. I won`t buy anything stihl again. Also they won`t start without at least 4 pulls. Guess they used to make good stuff but not anymore.
Do you see the same issues with the Stihl MotoMix? I refused to buy the 6pk of ultra and went with the overpriced can of MotoMix to extend my warranty.
My Sachs Dolmar 120 doesn't like oil, 50:1 is what it runs ok-ish and it is pretty old, it refuses to start at40:1 or higher does this mean I need to rebuild the engine?
Excellent video as usual sir! Any thoughts on using klotz super techniplate? I have an atv dealer close to me that sells it by the quart. I'd be running it at 40:1.
I got nothing up my sleeve for that. I've never used it and what I know is just hearsay. I've had a couple of requests to take a look at Klotz products. I'll get to it one of these days.
I use that oil exclusively, but comparing to other teardowns with saws running other unnamed oils, my saws are cleaner. Ive been using it in all my 2strokes and have never had a problem in 20 years of use
Klotz techniplate smells terrific but contains no rust inhibitors. I found out the hard way with rust damaged cylinder n bearings. Their 50-1 oil has rust inhibitors.
Does the flashpoint of oil have anything to do with it because I heard outboard oil is for water cooled engines but still has air cooled so it runs hotter. This is making any sense to you. I’m tempted to run saber as long as it got the right flashpoint
We appreciate all the video's l don't know anything about chain saws but Stihl 4 mix engines l do there high performance engines like you would have in your GTO or Corvette use cheap oil in a 4 mix and it's over with carbon city use cheap gas same thing !!! I use Amsoil Sabre and ethanol free gas and I never ever have a Problem thanks Richard 👍👍
When power saws come in and I open them up I can tell you which ones run the lesser quality than FD oil. Then we have some that come in with way more hours on them way less run damage or carboning and we ask what they run for mix oil it's always an FD rated oil. A logger come in about a month ago he had always been running just VP racing mix oil from Walmart or tractor supply every time we worked on one of his saws they looked pretty good he was on a job ran out of mix oil so they stopped at a sthil dealership and bought some ultra within three tanks of gas he locked up his 391 figured something just happened internally and totally a random issue. He continued to run his other saws an hour later locked up a 044 and shut down for the day with suspicion there was something going on but still not convinced he dropped the two saws off at my place on the way home we opened up the 391 as he waited to both of our surprises it appeared to be a serious lack of oil he then told me he had picked up some ultra after running out of his normal oil I told him just my two cents I also trashed two saws and did damage to a couple other ones before I learned my lesson and it was for the very same reason I just simply stop by and picked up some oil because it was convenient on my way to a job. He asked me what I run now and I told him the same thing I've him before it's no secret I run Schaeffer's mix oil personally because I've had excellent results but at the same time I realize some people don't want to pay that price so for them I recommend any FD rated oil and I feel they should do just fine personally I have seen people have good results with even the cheap VP racing oil however I have never seen anyone bring a saw in that had good results with still or Husqvarna oil long-term. Yes maybe for the firewood cutter that is only running 10 gallons of gas a year through a saw but not for those pro guys using 5 gallons or more a day threw 3-4 saws those guys just simply start having problems or start wearing out saws very rapidly. I have a couple guys still running Husqvarna 394s and 395s who have been running Schaefer's since they first discovered it years ago and they're still running the original pistons and cylinders and cranks one of those guys is also running Schaefer's bar and chain oil and mixing it 50/50 with laser bar and chain oil he buys both from me now. We were just talking about it the other day and he told me that switching to Schaefer's oil was the best decision he ever made his equipment breakdowns are very minimal now and usually dumb things like broken plastic or loose bolts I just sold him a new bar for his 395 last week and he told me that the bar that was on his saw was 6 years old and he uses it everyday it had a changeable tip that he had never changed but greased a couple times a day with shaffer's #219 grease he said before he started doing that he would go through a tip at least once a month and a bar at least twice a year. Let me know if you would like to do a demonstration on laser 2-stroke mix oil I would gladly mail you a quart free of charge if you do a video on it.
You are 100% correct. WHY would you run a JASO FB oil (Stihl) when JASO FD oils (Echo, Husqvarna, Amsoil, VP Racing) are readily available and they have detergents that keep the exhaust port clean??!!
Things that make you go Hmmmmmm. Last week at the TCIA convention I asked a rep at the Stihl booth if they had any new 2T oil coming out and said "No, why?". I guess that's what happens when you drink the Kool Aid. Certainly they could reformulate or introduce an FD rated oil. Wonder why they don't?
@@richardflagg3084 is it somehow marked if it's FD or FB? How to tell the difference? Never seen build up on saws, here in Europe. The oil bottle is different and i think comes form different factorys. Would be interesting to see if the oil is also different. We have 3 diffrent ones, HP, HP Super and HP Ultra.
@@vahula Maybe it's a US thing. It is printed on every bottle here in the states. I think the HP Super is the one made by Castrol. I've heard good things about it, but never used it personally.
@@richardflagg3084 Checked the EU oils. The lowest grade STIHL HP is only JASO-FB. All others (STIHL HP SUPER and STIHL HP ULTRA) are JASO-FD, here in the EU. I don't stock the STIHL HP even on some of my stores, it's so bad. Don't know why STIHL don't sell the better oil in US
@Richard Flagg Stihl doesn't upgrade their oil because they make money off of the components their current oil wrecks in their products. Upgrading their oil means less OEM replacement parts being sold. As long as it says STIHL on it, the cool-aid drinkers will buy it because "it's the best there is". Even if their oil is outdated.
Had a logging/tree guy buddy drop by for a beer, and he brought in one of his Stihl climbing saws that needed sharpening, cause I’m a hand filer and he likes how my saws cut. I handed it back when finished and told him: Now it will cut as good as a Husqvarna! Ha ha! But ya, it is probably just the oil! I’ve just recently purchased a case of the red armor off Amazon. Don’t know if it will be an improvement over the Husky oil that I have been running in all my husky’s and Stihls or not. The saw you demoed could have used a good hand filing as well but I know that isn’t what they brought it in for.
Subscribed. No ultra for me. Would you run saber in a brand new 261 cm or run a Dino oil for break in and proper ring seating? Love your real world testing and analysis. Keep up the good work
Ive just bought a Stihl combi hedgetrimmer here in New Zealand. Stihl guy got upset when i told him I don't run Ultra cos it's filthy. Anyway to get the 4 year warranty all I had to buy was a tiny bottle of ultra, for a one shot 5 litre mix. I'll use it for the first 2 tanks then switch to Saber at 40:1. I figure if something is gonna blow through a factory mistake, it will do it in the first couple of tanks. He did say when they get warranty claims they get the fuel tested, and if it isn't Ultra, it has to be mixed at a tested and confirmed 25:1 ratio or warranty claim denied. Never used Saber, so i hope it's good in the 661 and my other saws. It gets kind of confusing to be honest, and a tad worrying. Overthinking I think it is!
@@martintomsett6288 does it specifically say it on the bottle/container? Here in Europe there's no info whatsoever on the ultra bottle which makes is suspect I think. Some dealerships are advertising ultra as fd but it's actually fb.
I think it's all epa and environmently friendly driven with hp ultra. I'm switching back to hp super. Its fd rated and has a stabilizer in the mix. I did a little experiment with hp super years ago, I got a glass bottle and I put some hp super mix in it and squeezed the top on it. It's mixed with E95 petrol so 5% ethanol, nearly 3 years on its still perfect, hasn't separated in any way and smells like day one. I keep it in a cool dark place away from sunlight which you should with all fuel. It will be interesting to see how long it will hold up but I'd have zero problem letting it in my saw or leafblower over winter I've done it on the past and they fired up straight away the following spring.
What is your opinion on TC-W3 oil mixed 50:1?. I have used it for a few years in my Husky and Stihl chainsaws plus in two oil injected snowmobiles. No issues as of yet. Your opinion please. Just found this video. Thanks..
Brand loyalty isn’t always a good thing. I run either Amsoil Saber or Echo Red Armor mixed at 40:1 in ethanol free rec fuel in everything I own. There could be testing that comes out saying that good ol’ Wesson cooking oil that Florence Henderson used to pitch is the ultimate oil for 2 strokes, and I’d jump right on that. Don’t care about a brand name, just care what works and protects the best.
That Florence Henderson reference killed me. I wish I could like it 10x. There's plenty of good info out there, and with a little trust but verify your smarter than most. Your two oils and ratio are hard to beat. Keep at it until Loretta Lynn comes back to pitch Crisco. "Do you proud every time"
40:1 is unnecessary if you are running an FD synthetic oil. Assuming you are running modern saws, 50:1 is fine and actually better for them. 40:1 is only necessary if you are milling or simply running much longer bars than what the saw's recommended max length bar is. Amsoil and Echo Red are 2 of the best oils to run at 50:1.
Extra oil leans the mixture. Adjust the carb richer and it wont run hot. I ran my dirt bikes so rich with oil, the other riders could barely see to pass me.
Ok Richard, you convinced me. I bought a 6 pack of the larger sized Shindawa Red Armor. Is there any difference in it and the Echo Red Armor? Also, proud to be one of your subscribers!
Red armor is good stuff. I buy it by the gallon, cost like 85 dollars. But I make a living with my saws so I use several gallons of mix oil a year. It leaves the piston clean, and lubricated well
Most all FD rated oils will do a superior job. The best results I've seen is Saber at 40:1. Great oil film in the crankcase and burns cleaner than anything I've seen.
Richard, You never know how a saw was treated during its lifetime of use. Just because the owner brought it to you with Stihl Ultra in it is no proof it has always been fed Stihl Ultra nor is it proof that every mix was50:1. I can only go by my saws and I have never experienced a mechanical problem running Stihl Ultra at 50:1 in any of my saws. I do not like Stihl Ultra because it is a dirty burning oil when not run at WFO all the time. I have tried FD oils but they have problems, too. They increase the pull over on saws that do not have deco valves and you sometimes get gas/oil separation. I guess I run Ultra because it is the best of two evils.
The internet is the internet. Which is why I don't post on my channel, or my IG (my only social media). That said, my Dad is just an older firewood guy who runs little MS 250's and of the 2 he has, neither has had an issue, for a decade or so. He's never even changed the plug apparently. He used to use the Stihl orange bottle and now the dealer pushed the Ultra, in the silver bottle on him and both his saws quit running after a couple tanks each of that mix. I pulled the plugs and they were black and there was a ton of carbon on the top of the piston and the exhaust was nasty black. Now, these are older saws and one could say "they've been that way before he used that oil", but I don't believe in coincidences and the fact that they both wouldn't start after using Ultra, proved to me, that it's garbage oil.
Tree Care Industry Association. This one held in Charlotte last week was the largest convention for the tree care industry. Hundreds of vendors of all kinds were there. Everything from heavy equipment to small accessories. Stihl, Husqvarna and Echo were there as well as Greenworks in regard to outdoor power equipment.
I have not seen Super or Premium here in the Southeast (US). Our dealers only stock Ultra and the traditional HP in the orange bottle. Not sure why.....
@@richardflagg3084 Yes, it looks they don't sell it in America. No mention about it on the Stihl USA website... On their international website they list three oils: HP, HP Super and HP Ultra. Obviously Ultra according to them is the best in all terms: "cleanliness", "protection performance", "lubrication", "engine power". HP Super sits between HP and HP Ultra.
@@vartikcsaba No, they by mistake probably describe it as FB and FD at the same time on some of their webpages. On the bottle I have it says ISO-L-EGD (at least FD - self certified). HP Super is listed as FD in the document called "Filed Two Cycle Gasoline Engine Oil List" maintained by JASO Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel. Other Stihl oils do not exist on that list.
@@elpolaco7654 Very interesting. I will buy a bottle to check it(I'm from Hungary). Anyway, I use ultra for the last 6-7 years in my 261cm and fs461cm with no error. But I'm just a homeowner.
All you have to do is look at the amount of carbon built up at the exhaust port. That thing is filthier there than a diesel with half of a million miles on it.
We don't have the White bottle here in the States. I assume you're from Canada. The European market gets better oil than we get here in the US too. Damn shame one of those oils are available here. There are plenty of good offerings that are FD rated from other manufactures though. 😎
@@richardflagg3084 wow that is interesting hearing that... because here in Ontario Canada where I live anyway we get the white bottle and the ultra oils. The white bottle Stihl oil is made by Castrol .
I came across this in my feed suggestions, but have no idea what this video is about... Care to clarify what people are saying that is trolling, or disbelieving?
I tested the Husqvarna XP+ and it is a very good oil. Burned clean. The piston and crankcase was well lubricated when I tore it down. I made a video with it a couple of months ago.
Hello sir A message from France. I also wonder about the poor quality of the gasoline here in France SP 95 that acts on the high-end oil and form of carbon everything goes I also have 4mix rotofil no worries with motomix Clean exhaust light interesting discussion Despite all I have doubt about the hp ultra oil, I just received an email from aspen france, they were very kind to answer me, they tell me that I can mix the aspen 4 Time with husqvarna xp oil , and the dealer tool repairer tells him no? who is laughing? rather aspen France I believe it is by exchanging messages that we progress, fuels it is super complicated soon merçi of the exchange
What’s wrong with that saw is it was never properly maintained by the owner. I will bet the air filter ha never been cleaned or replaced. The carb box is filthy as is the rest of the saw.. it is probably running rich as H. Because of the air filter. You just cannot blame every problem on the two cycle oil used in it. You can eat off my saws, because that is how I put them away after I use them. I also sharpen them after every use.however, I am not in the commercial timber business were time and negligence go hand in hand.
I think when you had your head blocking the camera, you switched the saw. Lol. Just kidding. I personally run the amsoil saber in my ope stuff. I've never had a problem with the saber. Saws at 50:1 everything else at 70:1
That gasoline isn't at all that GREEN color like i get when i mix up my gas with Stihl Ultra oil. It should be dark green, not light green like in video. I think there is some kind of miscalculation when people mix it. 100 ml is for 5 liters of gas, it's 1.3 gallons. If you mix it with 2 gallons then you get very lean mix and that it seems to be main issue here. Of course it will destroy engine using mix like that. So at first mr. Richard Flagg must show us his gas can. 😄
Pull your muffler and have a look. Ultra is not a premium oil. It is certified as a JASO "FB" oil, two levels below the top rating. FC and FD rated oils have better detergent packages without sacrificing lubrication. Run what you like, but I'd run a more modern oil.
Lol. You still beating up on Ultra ? Look, I'll admit I tend to mix it around 45:1 for insurance purposes. Most everyone in Australia tends to do that because it's hot down here. Thing is this oil has Castor in it and nothing has a tougher oil film under heat and higher load than castor. The only slight negative is it leaves a trade mark brown glaze sometimes. I've never ever had a problem using it. It burns clean, it doesn't foul the plugs, it gives more power and less smoke. Even when you mix it with extra oil. I always mix premium 98 octane unleaded. No ethanol. Ethanol is the engine killer because alcohol desolves oil film. That's the other reason it pays to go 45:1.
hello from france Here in France hp ultra stihl is classified jaso FD as the hp super stihl semi-synthetic also FD I wanted to mix alkilate gasoline, to very good husqvarna xp oil according to your tests, but I was advised not to mix 2 T with pure alkilate gasoline?? Why don’t I know? So I put sthil motomix in a 550 xp husqvarna is what I do right? I still add some ultra hp oil in the motomix to make 2.2% 45/1 oil, the motomix is composed with ultra hp oil difficult to find anything other than motomix, rare aspen and motomix in all stores I find that my machine runs better with motomix than with aspen 2 I’m not too mechanic to take it apart to see the piston Can you give me your opinion, I keep this up or not? thank you for your beautiful videos French text translated into English for you and other users of your channel that I appreciate greetings from france
Where did you buy HP Stihl Ultra with an ISO-L-EGD print? I have not seen one... On their French website it says "JASO-FB, ISO-L-EGB" for HP Stihl Ultra. It does not appear on the JASO 2 stroke oils list.
I was just at the TCIA tradeshow in Charlotte NC, and talked to the men at the Aspen fuel booth. As I understand Aspen has been in Europe for quite a while and is relatively new to the US market. Perhaps if you wanted to try another fuel mix, that could be an option? I have not tried it yet.
Stihl oil sucks. Burns dirty and the carbon build-up is ridiculous. I used to run it but got tired of the issues with it. No problems since I threw it away and switched to better oil.
Far as the trolls they only put the fuel in and run the saw so far as they know it's good! They don't work on the saws because every single saw mechanic that is good is right with us. The ultra is crap period!!
I've run ultra for a few years now but because of what I've seen here what he showed us I have quit using ultra and went to red armor and 240 to 1 mix I can't tell one bit of difference in in the way anything runs but I believe someone with his capabilities knows what he's talking about
I've been using ultra 40:1 non ethonal for years and have no excessive carbon build up issues whatsoever. All of my saws have been pulled apart at some time or another and they stay clean. Not saying your not experiencing what your experiencing but I have been having no issues with the ultra.
I started out 40 years ago just running whatever oil was cheapest. In 2004 I bought two huskys. One a 372xp, and the other don't remember what model, but smaller. Started using red line racing because it was a favorite with the fallers in my neighborhood. Used red line exclusively until last year when I got a new 261. They gave me a 6 pack of the "pond water" and used it for a bit. Have a hot saw that sat with the hp ultra in it for a couple of months or so and it didn't want to start when I needed to cut some steel. Poured the swamp mix out and filled it with some years old red line mix and ran like new. I also have bicycle motor on a huffy that sat year after year with half a tank of red line outside in all kinds of weather and it fired up and ran. Always 32 to one. I'm by no means an expert, but that's my experience. Will not use the pond water again. BTW the everything still starts and runs. Subbed your channel.
Keep up the good work Richard. Oil brings out the insanity in some people. Bizarre as it sounds.
I totally agree with that statement
never had problems out of ultra. thats all ive used for years. no issues so far. to each their own.
Only have used the HP but I'm just using my saws, blower, and clearing saw as a homeowner. I have no doubt oil is more critical for commercial use.
I had Motomix plug the spark arrestor up on my SH-85 blower. I temporarily pulled the arrestor out until I use my supply of Motomix up, then I'm switching to Red Armor. It smoothed my 42 year old Lawn-Boy out noticeably on just one tank.
I have the same blower. It's fairly obvious that they designed those mufflers to be loud if you try running without the arrester.
I used to run ultra exclusively and the carbon build up on piston and exhaust port like on that 261 is exactly why I switched to amsoil saber.
What ratio do you run the saber at?
@@ryannogle7241 50:1
@@johnm9005 are you gonna keep it there or try 80 or 100 to 1? My buddy has been running 100:1 in his dirt bike since he bought it. He’s had no problems. He runs it pretty hard too. I’m just curious what everyone does
@@ryannogle7241 I am going to stay at 50:1. I run these saws pretty hard, professionally for lack of a better term and check things out as I have them apart. 🤷 100:1 scares me.
@@johnm9005 been running a 562 at 80:1 for fours years now and she’s still running great.
I've used stihl mix for years and happen to have a ms261 and pulled out apart to take base gasket out and muffler mod it and it was cleaner than that. Not saying ultra is a awesome oil, just saying i didn't have any issues and have ran it in 30+saws for logging and I use it because it's convenient and haven't had any problems. Just my experience with it
Same here with my 2011 261. Guess that makes me a troll, lol.
Would that be hp ultra made in germany? I've a funny feeling that it's a better oil than the US made oil.. I can't understand why stihl, if they really wanted to promote hp ultra as its best oil is only rated jaso fb? Also here in Europe there is zero info on the ultra container I wonder why? Hp super has all the info and is jaso fd rated. I'm going to go with super.
They set mine up pretty lean at Napa. Took off caps and adjusted richer and opened up exhaust after 2 years and it still runs great 12 years later. It was turned up wide open but on lean side. I topped off the cap when I got it. Think it was set to slowly burn up. I still use that grey synthetic on it. It where they turn them up to burn up a little after warranty. Mine was
I really like the amsoil saber. I took my muffler off of my 2 year old 461 and it’s immaculate. I mix the saber at 50:1. I’ve noticed that the ultra pond water makes them idle fast and has detonation vs using amsoil saber or any other fd oil.
Keep it up👍🏻 can't argue with results! Stihl definitely has a solid portion of blind fans! While I'm far from loyal to the brand, I do like their machines. Just never believed everything that says Stihl must be the best!
Kinda like Harley Davidson. They want everyone to believe that everything branded Harley is the absolute best there is. NOT! NO WAY! Love Stihl equipment but run Amsoil Saber, for about 15 years, on 4 different saws. Never, ever had any issue whatsoever. Pistons look like new, all 4 run like new money.
@@whatsapoop yep! I've ran many gallons mixed with saber at 45:1 with absolutely no complaints, it's definitely a great oil! But I do enjoy trying different things and am currently running maxima castor 927 at 32:1🤪 surprisingly clean burning and love the smell!
Car mechanic turned chainsaw mechanic, Now an arborist. When I was fixing saws at a Stihl and husky dealer you would not believe how many people would bring there saws in and say oh it’s got good compression it’s fine, and then I’d take the muffler off to look in and find a cooked piston or scored walls, it’s unbelievable how many people don’t check down the exhaust hole! It blew my mind. Seriously 2-4 bolts/screws and the mufflers off and you can get a really good idea what’s going on with your unit. Folks take your exhaust off periodically and have a look! It always tells the truth. I’d get alot of top end rebuilds from taking exhaust off and showing customers pictures or in person hey look your saw is cooked. Take care and stay safe everyone!
Great video glad I found and subscribed to you tons of great information! I used to use the hp ultra but have switched to the klotz small engine 50:1 oil loved there oils in my 2 stroke dirt bikes figured I’d try the small engine 50:1 so far very clean burning and great lubrication!
Thanks! I've heard the Klotz smells good too. I personally haven't tried it, yet....
Hey Richard I've got a bottle of the Klotz 50:1 I can send you if you want to try it. It's really good stuff! Just let me know if you want it.
I just run 40:1 Klotz R50 or Tecniplate on all my stihls. They run great. Same jug I run with my KTM 300xc with 93 non ethanol.
I've ran stihl ultra for years and so does my dad and my grandpa we've never blown a 2 stroke up. We always get ALL of the oil out of the jug though. Dump the oil into the gas can then dump gas in the oil bottle put cap on and shake it good then dump into the gas jug. I've had several of our saws apart and they look new inside.
Same here… recently started with amsoil…. Better, I noticed piston lubed with film of oil even after sitting and much more cleaner exhaust… way cleaner
@@lagoonrd4173Nice. Was that Amsoil conventional or synthetic?
@@vdog4799 its full syntetic...all top oils are now, i think he uses Amsoil Saber.. its rated for up to 100:1 ratio.i recently switched to it, trying 80:1 and might go down to 50:1
I have had big problems with inconsistency with the saws using the ultra. After 1 6 pack I went back to the orange ones.
I used the Stihl orange bottles for decades without problems and recently started trying VP as in VP racing fuels. It's a fd rated synthetic and so it seems okay, I haven't had reason to look seriously so far for deposits.
VP is good oil!
@Richard Flagg - have you seen any issues with the 4-cycle engines? I have a 111 Kombi that has run exclusively on the Ultra with non-ethanol premium. I haven't had any problems. But, first thing I did was remove the screen and the limiters on the carb.
BTW, that saw you ran in this video sounded lean to me. An old mechanic guru once taught me how to set the mixture screws: Get it warmed up. Run it with no load wide open and lean out the high speed until it sings and then richen it up to the point it starts to 4-cycle. It should then pull clean under load. Adjust the idle speed and mixture for good idle and off idle response.
I burn 20 cord a year and run Evinrude - Johnson Premium Synthetic at 32:1 in all my 2-strokes; chainsaws, weed whips, snowmobile (injection + some oil in the gas), dirt bikes. As long as the carb is tuned right I've never fouled a plug. I've never had a problem with any of them. Roger DeCoster ran a dyno test in Dirt Bike Magazine back in the 80's comparing oil mix ratios. HP improved all the way down to 5:1, but plug fouling became an issue around 12:1.
I'm not a fan of stihl ultra. I have found if the saw is ran hard enough, such a running a ms660 with a 42 inch bar, .404 chain full comp, in a saw mill application that it will burn quite clean mixed at 50:1. As soon as the saw has some idle time on it, stihl ultra starts leaving deposits. The worst I seen was my ms241c that I climbed with, running ultra mix oil. That saw idled alot, after about 25 gallons of gas, the piston became carbon scored, ring grooves sluged with carbon. Switched to echo red armor 6 years ago, and have realistically ran over a thousand gallons of mix gas in that time till now, no issues.
Thanks for doing the research and real world proof. I am curious as to why you did not rotate the piston to BDC to look at the cylinder.
Next time I'll do that. I should have taken the cylinder off too.
Thank you very much for this video, from somewhere in Europe! I wonder if part of the problem might be that people are not doing the calibration? I only ask because my ms 261 started off life with Ultra for a couple years of heavy use, and now (kind of accidentally) I use the HP Super. I have experienced zero issues and have gone to the trouble of doing an annual service with a Stihl dealership with no reported issues.
I'm completely satisfied running Honda HP2 at 44:1. There's a nice coating of oil on the piston skirt and in the crankcase on a Mtronic saw.
The motorcycle oils in general seem to be better. More money on the line is just a guess. Buying by the quart and measuring yourself will save a lot. Most of the 1 gallon 2.6 oz. pre-mix bottles will run you about $50ish per quart if you do the math.
@@richardflagg3084 I bought 2 cases last year when it was on sale for 7.99 for 16oz bottle. Normally its around 10-11 at Rocky Mountain ATV. I call it Smurfs Blood since it turns the gas blue lol.
Stihl has got people bent over the counter when they buy that oil.
Chris P HP2 was built by the same chem. that did Red Armor.
Richard I enjoyed the video and our conversation in the past about oils and jaso ratings. I'm convinced the ultra Is being pushed for environmental reasons over anything. How can they claim a jaso fb oil like ultra is superior to a jaso fd like super? I know you said you can't get hp super in the US I get that. The pond water as you call it, it looks miserable like green tea or something. I'm going back to hp super anyway it's fd rated and has a low smoke and fuel stabiliser and has a fantastic bright green colour to it.. I Really like your honesty and input. Subscribed and thank you for the video.
Never mind the troll keep up the good work and thank you for sharing your experience
I agree on the Stihl ultra Been having problems with dry pistons and carbon build up. But I wounder if it is not the additives and ethanol in gas that does something to the Stihl ultra oil. I have noticed on my Km 131 4mix I run the Stihl canned fuel and don't have problems. Would be interesting to see results in running that Stihl canned fuel moto mix in chainsaws for long periods of time.
There used to be a sign hanging in the local Stihl dealership that stated Stihl ultra does not mix well with ethanol gas. They took the sign down my guess cause it was cutting into their repair business. That guy that owns the dealership told me that 90 percent of the problems he sees are caused by fuel related issues.
Buy a quality oil. Red Armor is great stuff. What's your time worth? Are you really going to stick ethanol in your $1000 saw?
@@sawmanbigtreeslayer2360 nope my saws only get non ethanol high test
Stihl hp ultra was specifically designed for the 4-mix machines. Before that they had decarbonizing fluid that dealers used to remove carbon on 4-mix engines that were ran with dyno oil. Seems they decided it just made more sense to put it in the oil instead. This and the fact that hp ulta is bio-degradable might be why regular two strokes seem to not like it is as much. 🤷♂️.
Ahh...Gotcha, Sounds like a very interesting affair...Is it open to the "public"? Seems like something i would enjoy...lots of neat things to see & checkout, etc.! And a big "Thank you" on such a prompt reply, Sir! I've been watching quite of few interesting & informative how-to & OPE related channels for quite some time now, but only recently "discovered" your content/ channel. I very much appreciate the time/ effort/ & knowledge that you put forth & "share" with us viewers who are still learning. As another viewer stated previously, (I too) Really like & appreciate the straight forward, call-it-like-you-see it, No B.S. style. And for all the "Trolls" out there, if ya don't like/ agree with anyone, you can either Not watch/ subscribe to their content/ channel or, better yet, take the time/ effort to try & "prove" why you disagree! Thank you again, Sir! And I look forward to new content...Hope you have a Great Sunday!
Thank you for the kind words. The 2023 TCIA Expo will be in St Louis next year, and it is open to the public. Just need to register in advance or at the event. Admission this year was $25 for the weekend. Very cool show. Too much to see in a day tho.
Richard, do YOU think that ANY of the Stihl 2pc mufflers would bolt on to a 372 cylinder?
BTW, I like to run (approximately) 32-1 but with RedArmor Echo oil. I tried the Stihl silver bottle oil but I (personally) could not see any advantage to it except that it made my wallet lighter. BUT, I DID see the advantage in the Echo RedArmor. It’s claims about cleaning the carbon out AND making it softer were well founded. I LIKE that oil for sure.
I run the hp ultra at 32:1 and my machines are still going strong, I haven’t had any issues with scoring or buildup, I do periodically take off the muffler to verify the condition, I’ve got a large case of hp ultra from working as a stihl dealer. Everybody has an oil they trust, if it works, I’d say stick with what you’re familiar with and trust. I will probably try another oil once I use up my case.
Richard, you and I appear to be about the same age, been servicing and repairing saws for 42 years you know full well there are these young book smart types that come on the scene almost everyday thinking they know it all but the very first time a issue or a problem that wasn’t covered in the class room book or discussion they are lost as hell calling for their mommy to rescue them, don’t let the haters bother you, they actually don’t have the confidence in their own ability to stand their ground on the opinion they subscribe to when the chain meets the wood … I agree with you …!
Preach, my Brother!
I agree with the above. Experience can partly be learned, but the experience built up over the years is priceless.
Allow me to share my experience on the subject.
Aspen four-stroke fuel and the Stihl, both alkylate fuels. In combination with Amsoil Saber or the Interceptor are a combination that cannot be better than one could wish for.
As I describe it, it is pure efficiency, very thermally stable, no dry crankcase, clean combustion, unprecedented lubrication properties.
Just like the Amso, other products are applicable.
A screamer that won't stop in a reliable way.
Regards.
The wife bought a weedeater a few months ago and we bought the 6 pack of ultra to get the extended warranty. Going to give it to a neighbor that I don't particularly like for Xmas, lol.
😜👍🤣🤣🤣
Lol
Just because you Do not have a licensed product dose not mean you do not have a good product remember dirt is the enemy not the oil that is what I was trying to point out.
Absolutely! In regards to JASO, it's a certification based on standardized testing. Similar to API certifications here in the US for motor oil. The Japanese filled a niche not covered under API for two stroke oils and engine oils that had to double as clutch lubricant. Thanks for the comments, Rich.
The outside of my chainsaw looks like this one, but the inside and exhaust look brand new. Amsoil Saber and Quickshot. The real beauty of it, is that you can't mix it wrong!!
40:1 for me brother...and not Ultra. I use plenty of different oils but not Ultra. I go 32:1 for a few tanks on a new saw then 40:1. I like your videos...trolls just need lives of their own.
I'll be honest, I usually don't stir things up. Most of the off the wall comments come from folks that don't have content, just an opinion sitting at their keyboard, not a workbench. Those who work on this stuff and professionals that make a living with a saw already know. 😎
How about piston crown wash, do you read the piston crown?
I've been using the same oem synthetic type 2T oil in my saws, etc. as I run in my 950cc 2-stroke without any issues. Supposedly it's rated api-tc although nowhere on the bottle are there any ratings. The 950cc does show some similar coking on the piston skirt, haven't looked at the saws but don't recall any.
Subbed. Does stihl void warranty when runnin without their oil? Havent bought a new stihl in 25 years.
I looked up amsoil dominator that I use successfully in my dirt bike and power equipment.
It's FC rated.
You recommend FD rated oil.
What's the difference?
FD rating requires a better detergent package. Dominator still burns very clean in my experience. Not as clean as Saber tho. It's Amsoil's FD rated oil for air cooled
I get a good laugh out of Stihl owners and dealers. They think that all their equipment and products are the best. Too bad it isn't true. I have never owned a pro quality Stihl saw, but all the user grade ones I have had, wore out and or failed in short order. I made the mistake of using their oil to keep the warranty in effect. When I tore them down, I discovered the same problems you have shown in your video's. If I had any of that oil left, I would use it as expensive weed killer, as you mentioned that it is biodegradable. It has to be good for something! I am starting to use Red Armor now, so far, so good.
Richard at this point I would say that for those of willing to listen you have made your point and your effort to do so is appreciated! But here’s the question.. we know saber is great and schaffers is great (I’m running saber myself) but what oil can we point people towards other then ultra that is just as readily available?? Lucas, husqvarna, red armor? Stuff along that line that anybody can run to town and grab same day.
The Echo Power Blend and Red Armor are FD rated, as id the Husqvarna XP+. I've tested all three and they did very well and are readily available. I'll include that in the next video. Thank You
Red Armor available on eBay. Shipped to your door. Plan ahead and don't run out that's easier than scrambling for oil when the shelf is empty at the store.
Just become an Amsoil dealer. Anybody can and it’s free shipping with a $100 + order.
@@supersportimpalass who can stand their stupid measuring bottles. If you read the Saber bottle it confuses the hell out of you. Why not just put the stuff in 2.6 ounce bottle and call it good? 2.6 ounces of Red Armor and . 8 gallons makes 40 to 1. No guessing. No complicated formulas. No BS!!
@@PurpleNovember cause like most one man operations I usually mix 2.5 gal aT a time
You got me worried now. I own a tree service and have a small fortune in saws. I've always used full synthetic stihl oil, 91 octane with no ethanol, and a splash of sea foam in a 2 gallon jug.
Pull the muffler or the front cover and have a peek inside. The seafoam you add is a good idea regardless of which oil you run. I'd look into getting a few quarts of Amsoil Saber if you can source it locally. I work at a tree service two days a week and have for years. Hands down it's one of the best oils money can buy. Smells a lot better
than ultra too.
Buying it by the quart will save you a ton of money compared to premeasured oil. Just buy a rite ratio measuring cup at a cycle shop. Most premeasured oil runs about $45-60 quart if you do the math.
@@richardflagg3084 do you run 40 to 1, 50 to 1, or 100 to 1 on amsoil saber?
Had a guy bring in a 391 to me he ran ultra in. Wasn't as bad as the ones you showed, but I have never seen so much carbon in the combustion chamber and on top of a piston before in my life.
That's an FB rated oi for ya. The FD rated oils have to have a detergent package to keep the engine clean without sacrificing lubrication. All the other OPE manufactures have improved the oil. Not sure what Stihl is waiting on....
did you see that filter?
I own a tree service. I run 110 race fuel in all my 2 strokes, and I'm happy with penzoil...so far. The brain dead insist that I'll "burn my saw up" running race gas. I'll keep trying to prove them right
Race fuel is actually less explosive compared to low octane fuel. I have noticed that saws run with more power on low octane fuels. I don’t think that 110 octane is necessary unless your saws are modified, for instance a spark timing advance may detonate low octane fuels and trash your saw.
@@tagerauen5378 we run em pretty hot here in boise. I want my saws to run as cool as possible
I'm just amazed people still mix gas. I've never come across a professional tree service in my neck of the woods who don't run alkylate like Aspen 2 or similar. We don't winterize our 2 stroke equipment either and the membranes stay nice and plyable as long as they don't dry out.
Whats your point. Whats the deposits on the piston skirt? Looks like particles getting past the filteration system.
Carbon coking on the piston skirt is increasing friction and allowing less of an oil barrier in between the piston and cylinder wall.
After stihl ultra gunked up my efco 962 951 946 4400 and also my ms362c i switched all my stuff over to redline and its clean as a whistle. I couldnt believe how nasty the piston and exhaust ports on everything was with the ultra. Will never run it again.
And till they have done years of tree work,like I have, they always is someone that has to talk out their ass.🤷♂️🤣
I bought a couple stihls and the 171 acted up after only one year and a few cords. I`d used stihl oil exclusively. Screen was plugged. I won`t buy anything stihl again. Also they won`t start without at least 4 pulls. Guess they used to make good stuff but not anymore.
Do you see the same issues with the Stihl MotoMix? I refused to buy the 6pk of ultra and went with the overpriced can of MotoMix to extend my warranty.
Is this something you're seeing with the ultra oil only. Or is it more of a 50 to one mix issue?
40:1 ultra sucks just as bad
My Sachs Dolmar 120 doesn't like oil, 50:1 is what it runs ok-ish and it is pretty old, it refuses to start at40:1 or higher does this mean I need to rebuild the engine?
Lol. Piece of wire in the clutch. That is funny.
Good video. Trolling the trolls it doesn't get any better.
Thank you, I thought so too.
So do you add 2 oz/gal Seafoam to the Ultra fuel to clean it up?
Seafoam is good stuff. That will help keep things clean.
Excellent video as usual sir! Any thoughts on using klotz super techniplate? I have an atv dealer close to me that sells it by the quart. I'd be running it at 40:1.
I got nothing up my sleeve for that. I've never used it and what I know is just hearsay. I've had a couple of requests to take a look at Klotz products. I'll get to it one of these days.
@@richardflagg3084 thank you for the reply. I really enjoy your no b.s., non biased videos. Happy Thanksgiving!
@@loggerjake8506 Thank you Sir
I use that oil exclusively, but comparing to other teardowns with saws running other unnamed oils, my saws are cleaner. Ive been using it in all my 2strokes and have never had a problem in 20 years of use
Klotz techniplate smells terrific but contains no rust inhibitors.
I found out the hard way with rust damaged cylinder n bearings.
Their 50-1 oil has rust inhibitors.
Does the flashpoint of oil have anything to do with it because I heard outboard oil is for water cooled engines but still has air cooled so it runs hotter. This is making any sense to you. I’m tempted to run saber as long as it got the right flashpoint
We appreciate all the video's l don't know anything about chain saws but Stihl 4 mix engines l do there high performance engines like you would have in your GTO or Corvette use cheap oil in a 4 mix and it's over with carbon city use cheap gas same thing !!! I use Amsoil Sabre and ethanol free gas and I never ever have a Problem thanks Richard 👍👍
Oh don't take the damn trimmer guard off!
Makes you wonder why Stihl hasn’t
Switched to a better mix oil. They could contract with literally ANY oil manufacturer they want.
I am sure it is Castrol that makes their oil.
The EPA has likely played a role in this. Stihl is likely trying to meet emission standards for their products.
When power saws come in and I open them up I can tell you which ones run the lesser quality than FD oil. Then we have some that come in with way more hours on them way less run damage or carboning and we ask what they run for mix oil it's always an FD rated oil. A logger come in about a month ago he had always been running just VP racing mix oil from Walmart or tractor supply every time we worked on one of his saws they looked pretty good he was on a job ran out of mix oil so they stopped at a sthil dealership and bought some ultra within three tanks of gas he locked up his 391 figured something just happened internally and totally a random issue. He continued to run his other saws an hour later locked up a 044 and shut down for the day with suspicion there was something going on but still not convinced he dropped the two saws off at my place on the way home we opened up the 391 as he waited to both of our surprises it appeared to be a serious lack of oil he then told me he had picked up some ultra after running out of his normal oil I told him just my two cents I also trashed two saws and did damage to a couple other ones before I learned my lesson and it was for the very same reason I just simply stop by and picked up some oil because it was convenient on my way to a job. He asked me what I run now and I told him the same thing I've him before it's no secret I run Schaeffer's mix oil personally because I've had excellent results but at the same time I realize some people don't want to pay that price so for them I recommend any FD rated oil and I feel they should do just fine personally I have seen people have good results with even the cheap VP racing oil however I have never seen anyone bring a saw in that had good results with still or Husqvarna oil long-term. Yes maybe for the firewood cutter that is only running 10 gallons of gas a year through a saw but not for those pro guys using 5 gallons or more a day threw 3-4 saws those guys just simply start having problems or start wearing out saws very rapidly. I have a couple guys still running Husqvarna 394s and 395s who have been running Schaefer's since they first discovered it years ago and they're still running the original pistons and cylinders and cranks one of those guys is also running Schaefer's bar and chain oil and mixing it 50/50 with laser bar and chain oil he buys both from me now. We were just talking about it the other day and he told me that switching to Schaefer's oil was the best decision he ever made his equipment breakdowns are very minimal now and usually dumb things like broken plastic or loose bolts I just sold him a new bar for his 395 last week and he told me that the bar that was on his saw was 6 years old and he uses it everyday it had a changeable tip that he had never changed but greased a couple times a day with shaffer's #219 grease he said before he started doing that he would go through a tip at least once a month and a bar at least twice a year. Let me know if you would like to do a demonstration on laser 2-stroke mix oil I would gladly mail you a quart free of charge if you do a video on it.
You are 100% correct. WHY would you run a JASO FB oil (Stihl) when JASO FD oils (Echo, Husqvarna, Amsoil, VP Racing) are readily available and they have detergents that keep the exhaust port clean??!!
Things that make you go Hmmmmmm. Last week at the TCIA convention I asked a rep at the Stihl booth if they had any new 2T oil coming out and said "No, why?". I guess that's what happens when you drink the Kool Aid. Certainly they could reformulate or introduce an FD rated oil. Wonder why they don't?
@@richardflagg3084 is it somehow marked if it's FD or FB? How to tell the difference? Never seen build up on saws, here in Europe. The oil bottle is different and i think comes form different factorys. Would be interesting to see if the oil is also different. We have 3 diffrent ones, HP, HP Super and HP Ultra.
@@vahula Maybe it's a US thing. It is printed on every bottle here in the states. I think the HP Super is the one made by Castrol. I've heard good things about it, but never used it personally.
@@richardflagg3084 Checked the EU oils. The lowest grade STIHL HP is only JASO-FB. All others (STIHL HP SUPER and STIHL HP ULTRA) are JASO-FD, here in the EU. I don't stock the STIHL HP even on some of my stores, it's so bad. Don't know why STIHL don't sell the better oil in US
@Richard Flagg Stihl doesn't upgrade their oil because they make money off of the components their current oil wrecks in their products. Upgrading their oil means less OEM replacement parts being sold. As long as it says STIHL on it, the cool-aid drinkers will buy it because "it's the best there is". Even if their oil is outdated.
Had a logging/tree guy buddy drop by for a beer, and he brought in one of his Stihl climbing saws that needed sharpening, cause I’m a hand filer and he likes how my saws cut.
I handed it back when finished and told him: Now it will cut as good as a Husqvarna!
Ha ha! But ya, it is probably just the oil!
I’ve just recently purchased a case of the red armor off Amazon. Don’t know if it will be an improvement over the Husky oil that I have been running in all my husky’s and Stihls or not.
The saw you demoed could have used a good hand filing as well but I know that isn’t what they brought it in for.
Yes, that chain was ready for a touch up. Let me know how you like the Red Armor.
Subscribed. No ultra for me. Would you run saber in a brand new 261 cm or run a Dino oil for break in and proper ring seating? Love your real world testing and analysis. Keep up the good work
Saber, red armor, castor 927, Schaefer's 7000, motul 800 2t. All good oils
So, the oil is the only reason it would carbon up like that? Just curious.
No.
Ive just bought a Stihl combi hedgetrimmer here in New Zealand. Stihl guy got upset when i told him I don't run Ultra cos it's filthy. Anyway to get the 4 year warranty all I had to buy was a tiny bottle of ultra, for a one shot 5 litre mix. I'll use it for the first 2 tanks then switch to Saber at 40:1. I figure if something is gonna blow through a factory mistake, it will do it in the first couple of tanks. He did say when they get warranty claims they get the fuel tested, and if it isn't Ultra, it has to be mixed at a tested and confirmed 25:1 ratio or warranty claim denied. Never used Saber, so i hope it's good in the 661 and my other saws. It gets kind of confusing to be honest, and a tad worrying. Overthinking I think it is!
The NZ ultra has Jaso fd rating so I wonder if it's the same stuff as US Jaso fb
They are jerking your chain about testing the fuel.
@supersportimpalass exactly. They could test to see an approximate % of ethanol in the fuel, but not what the mix is.
@@martintomsett6288 does it specifically say it on the bottle/container? Here in Europe there's no info whatsoever on the ultra bottle which makes is suspect I think. Some dealerships are advertising ultra as fd but it's actually fb.
I think it's all epa and environmently friendly driven with hp ultra. I'm switching back to hp super. Its fd rated and has a stabilizer in the mix. I did a little experiment with hp super years ago, I got a glass bottle and I put some hp super mix in it and squeezed the top on it. It's mixed with E95 petrol so 5% ethanol, nearly 3 years on its still perfect, hasn't separated in any way and smells like day one. I keep it in a cool dark place away from sunlight which you should with all fuel. It will be interesting to see how long it will hold up but I'd have zero problem letting it in my saw or leafblower over winter I've done it on the past and they fired up straight away the following spring.
What is your opinion on TC-W3 oil mixed 50:1?. I have used it for a few years in my Husky and Stihl chainsaws plus in two oil injected snowmobiles. No issues as of yet. Your opinion please. Just found this video. Thanks..
I run Schaeffers 7000 at 40:1 personally. It's a boat oil. It does a remarkable job in a chainsaw too.
Brand loyalty isn’t always a good thing. I run either Amsoil Saber or Echo Red Armor mixed at 40:1 in ethanol free rec fuel in everything I own. There could be testing that comes out saying that good ol’ Wesson cooking oil that Florence Henderson used to pitch is the ultimate oil for 2 strokes, and I’d jump right on that. Don’t care about a brand name, just care what works and protects the best.
That Florence Henderson reference killed me. I wish I could like it 10x. There's plenty of good info out there, and with a little trust but verify your smarter than most. Your two oils and ratio are hard to beat. Keep at it until Loretta Lynn comes back to pitch Crisco. "Do you proud every time"
@@richardflagg3084 Will do!😂
@@richardflagg3084 Now I had to go get some fried chicken after you mentioned Loretta’s Crisco commercial!🤣
@@richardflagg3084 😂😂😂😂
40:1 is unnecessary if you are running an FD synthetic oil. Assuming you are running modern saws, 50:1 is fine and actually better for them. 40:1 is only necessary if you are milling or simply running much longer bars than what the saw's recommended max length bar is. Amsoil and Echo Red are 2 of the best oils to run at 50:1.
Extra oil leans the mixture. Adjust the carb richer and it wont run hot. I ran my dirt bikes so rich with oil, the other riders could barely see to pass me.
Ok Richard, you convinced me. I bought a 6 pack of the larger sized Shindawa Red Armor. Is there any difference in it and the Echo Red Armor? Also, proud to be one of your subscribers!
I couldn't find a separate MSDS sheet for the Shindaiwa oil. I believe it's the same oil. Thank you very much for subscribing.
Red armor is good stuff. I buy it by the gallon, cost like 85 dollars. But I make a living with my saws so I use several gallons of mix oil a year. It leaves the piston clean, and lubricated well
Ultra for life! Haters going to hate.
Stihl doesn't make the oil Castroil makes it.
So what oil would you recommend?
Most all FD rated oils will do a superior job. The best results I've seen is Saber at 40:1. Great oil film in the crankcase and burns cleaner than anything I've seen.
Richard, You never know how a saw was treated during its lifetime of use. Just because the owner brought it to you with Stihl Ultra in it is no proof it has always been fed Stihl Ultra nor is it proof that every mix was50:1. I can only go by my saws and I have never experienced a mechanical problem running Stihl Ultra at 50:1 in any of my saws. I do not like Stihl Ultra because it is a dirty burning oil when not run at WFO all the time. I have tried FD oils but they have problems, too. They increase the pull over on saws that do not have deco valves and you sometimes get gas/oil separation. I guess I run Ultra because it is the best of two evils.
The second I see biodegradable on a 2 stroke oil I know it's no good. Bēnol for me good sir, I like my sticky castor oils
Oops I meant to say 40 to 1 ratio with the red armor
Needs cleaned with Air Hose to get all the Dust & Chips out of it because looks like it's caked up.
Great video!!
The internet is the internet. Which is why I don't post on my channel, or my IG (my only social media). That said, my Dad is just an older firewood guy who runs little MS 250's and of the 2 he has, neither has had an issue, for a decade or so. He's never even changed the plug apparently. He used to use the Stihl orange bottle and now the dealer pushed the Ultra, in the silver bottle on him and both his saws quit running after a couple tanks each of that mix. I pulled the plugs and they were black and there was a ton of carbon on the top of the piston and the exhaust was nasty black. Now, these are older saws and one could say "they've been that way before he used that oil", but I don't believe in coincidences and the fact that they both wouldn't start after using Ultra, proved to me, that it's garbage oil.
Dear Mr. Flagg: Sir, what exactly is the "TCIA" convention?
Tree Care Industry Association. This one held in Charlotte last week was the largest convention for the tree care industry. Hundreds of vendors of all kinds were there. Everything from heavy equipment to small accessories. Stihl, Husqvarna and Echo were there as well as Greenworks in regard to outdoor power equipment.
Stihl HP Super is JASO FD rated and 25% cheaper than HP Ultra here. Not available in the USA I guess.
I have not seen Super or Premium here in the Southeast (US). Our dealers only stock Ultra and the traditional HP in the orange bottle. Not sure why.....
@@richardflagg3084 Yes, it looks they don't sell it in America. No mention about it on the Stihl USA website... On their international website they list three oils: HP, HP Super and HP Ultra. Obviously Ultra according to them is the best in all terms: "cleanliness", "protection performance", "lubrication", "engine power". HP Super sits between HP and HP Ultra.
Stihl HP Super is FB rated in EU
@@vartikcsaba No, they by mistake probably describe it as FB and FD at the same time on some of their webpages. On the bottle I have it says ISO-L-EGD (at least FD - self certified).
HP Super is listed as FD in the document called "Filed Two Cycle Gasoline Engine Oil List" maintained by JASO Engine Oil Standards Implementation Panel.
Other Stihl oils do not exist on that list.
@@elpolaco7654 Very interesting. I will buy a bottle to check it(I'm from Hungary). Anyway, I use ultra for the last 6-7 years in my 261cm and fs461cm with no error. But I'm just a homeowner.
Love your video BTW
👍👍👍👍👍
And it's kinda sad to see someone not so bright loose a saw over a piece of metal in his sprocket or wherever.
Amsoil Dominator for me. Run in all my 2 strokes 45:1
All you have to do is look at the amount of carbon built up at the exhaust port. That thing is filthier there than a diesel with half of a million miles on it.
🤣🤣🤣 I saw that too. I didn't wanna rub salt in the wound, but it was pretty clear.
I switched to opti so i can run across echo and sthil
i like the chassis Stihl oil in the white bottle
We don't have the White bottle here in the States. I assume you're from Canada. The European market gets better oil than we get here in the US too. Damn shame one of those oils are available here. There are plenty of good offerings that are FD rated from other manufactures though. 😎
@@richardflagg3084 wow that is interesting hearing that... because here in Ontario Canada where I live anyway we get the white bottle and the ultra oils. The white bottle Stihl oil is made by Castrol .
So what oil are you recommend?
Amsoil Dominator ✅
Amsoil Saber ✅
Echo Red Armor ✅
@@mikemckinney6058 I love belray h1r… but that’s just me
I came across this in my feed suggestions, but have no idea what this video is about...
Care to clarify what people are saying that is trolling, or disbelieving?
Did you ever used Husqvarna synthetic? It has low flash point.
I tested the Husqvarna XP+ and it is a very good oil. Burned clean. The piston and crankcase was well lubricated when I tore it down. I made a video with it a couple of months ago.
@@richardflagg3084 Last few oils i used, all had low flash point, and because of that clean burn you can go 30:1.
What about motuel I have been running it some
I'll have to grab some and check it out. All the cool kids says it's very good.
Hello sir
A message from France.
I also wonder about the poor quality of the gasoline here in France SP 95 that acts on the high-end oil and form of carbon everything goes
I also have 4mix rotofil no worries with motomix Clean exhaust light interesting discussion
Despite all I have doubt about the hp ultra oil, I just received an email from aspen france, they were very kind to answer me, they tell me that I can mix the aspen 4 Time with husqvarna xp oil , and the dealer tool repairer tells him no? who is laughing? rather aspen France
I believe it is by exchanging messages that we progress, fuels it is super complicated soon merçi of the exchange
What’s wrong with that saw is it was never properly maintained by the owner. I will bet the air filter ha never been cleaned or replaced. The carb box is filthy as is the rest of the saw.. it is probably running rich as H. Because of the air filter. You just cannot blame every problem on the two cycle oil used in it. You can eat off my saws, because that is how I put them away after I use them. I also sharpen them after every use.however, I am not in the commercial timber business were time and negligence go hand in hand.
There are a lot of professionals that take very good care of their equipment.
@@richardflagg3084 Richard, there are a lot that don’t, too. A lot treat them like an expendable item.
@@johnclarke6647 It's just a tool that makes money. I enjoy taking care of my saws.
@@richardflagg3084 a car or truck is a tool that makes money but you had to maintain it, properly.
I think when you had your head blocking the camera, you switched the saw. Lol. Just kidding. I personally run the amsoil saber in my ope stuff. I've never had a problem with the saber. Saws at 50:1 everything else at 70:1
Caught me switching saws. Dang it!!
That gasoline isn't at all that GREEN color like i get when i mix up my gas with Stihl Ultra oil. It should be dark green, not light green like in video.
I think there is some kind of miscalculation when people mix it. 100 ml is for 5 liters of gas, it's 1.3 gallons. If you mix it with 2 gallons then you get very lean mix and that it seems to be main issue here. Of course it will destroy engine using mix like that. So at first mr. Richard Flagg must show us his gas can. 😄
Dude not the oils fault dirty filter and never tuned amsoil is great oil but so is the ultra
Pull your muffler and have a look. Ultra is not a premium oil. It is certified as a JASO "FB" oil, two levels below the top rating. FC and FD rated oils have better detergent packages without sacrificing lubrication. Run what you like, but I'd run a more modern oil.
Lol. You still beating up on Ultra ?
Look, I'll admit I tend to mix it around 45:1 for insurance purposes. Most everyone in Australia tends to do that because it's hot down here.
Thing is this oil has Castor in it and nothing has a tougher oil film under heat and higher load than castor. The only slight negative is it leaves a trade mark brown glaze sometimes. I've never ever had a problem using it. It burns clean, it doesn't foul the plugs, it gives more power and less smoke. Even when you mix it with extra oil.
I always mix premium 98 octane unleaded. No ethanol.
Ethanol is the engine killer because alcohol desolves oil film. That's the other reason it pays to go 45:1.
Yes, I'm still beating that dead horse. Lol! Thanks for the comment!
Just use Ams Oil Saber at 50:1 and be done
i've had good luck using red line 2 stroke oil in my chainsaws. anyone else use it?
Dirt bike oil is king
hello from france
Here in France hp ultra stihl is classified jaso FD as the hp super stihl semi-synthetic also FD
I wanted to mix alkilate gasoline, to very good husqvarna xp oil according to your tests, but I was advised not to mix 2 T with pure alkilate gasoline?? Why don’t I know?
So I put sthil motomix in a 550 xp husqvarna is what I do right? I still add some ultra hp oil in the motomix to make 2.2% 45/1 oil, the motomix is composed with ultra hp oil
difficult to find anything other than motomix, rare aspen and motomix in all stores
I find that my machine runs better with motomix than with aspen 2
I’m not too mechanic to take it apart to see the piston
Can you give me your opinion, I keep this up or not?
thank you for your beautiful videos
French text translated into English for you and other users of your channel that I appreciate
greetings from france
Where did you buy HP Stihl Ultra with an ISO-L-EGD print? I have not seen one...
On their French website it says "JASO-FB, ISO-L-EGB" for HP Stihl Ultra. It does not appear on the JASO 2 stroke oils list.
I was just at the TCIA tradeshow in Charlotte NC, and talked to the men at the Aspen fuel booth. As I understand Aspen has been in Europe for quite a while and is relatively new to the US market. Perhaps if you wanted to try another fuel mix, that could be an option? I have not tried it yet.
Stihl oil sucks. Burns dirty and the carbon build-up is ridiculous. I used to run it but got tired of the issues with it. No problems since I threw it away and switched to better oil.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink comes to mind with some people.
@Richard Flagg You're exactly right.
Amsoil dominator
Far as the trolls they only put the fuel in and run the saw so far as they know it's good! They don't work on the saws because every single saw mechanic that is good is right with us. The ultra is crap period!!
I've run ultra for a few years now but because of what I've seen here what he showed us I have quit using ultra and went to red armor and 240 to 1 mix I can't tell one bit of difference in in the way anything runs but I believe someone with his capabilities knows what he's talking about
240 to 1? I doubt anyone would even recommend Saber that light 😊
Oops I meant 40 to 1