How to choose a catamaran - Catamaran sailing techniques
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2016
- Top multihull designer Nigel Irens guides us through the process of choosing a catamaran. We also speak to Lloyd Thornburg, owner and skipper of record-breaking Phaedo 3 and ask his opinion on what to look for
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Shoutout to all my broke ppl who can't afford a bicycle but still watch the video because we love boats lol
Back at ya
I got my Jon boat. Not a yacht but better than a kayak
Clipping feathers again aren't ya
yeah, and designing more expensive models than what's offered, cus...why not
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Nigel Irens,,,, Excellent presentation. Many thanks from Lismore nsw Australia
Finally someone breaks it down. Ive watched 10 videos trying to understand the differences and this helps a lot. very straight forward
I appreciate all the effort from folks who take the time to make a vid and share their experiences and knowledge. The most important thing that I took away from this vid is the the importance of understanding compromise.
Add p
Thank you for this video. Very informative.
Informative video and advises. To be honest our original plan was to start our sailing trip on a catamaran!
How refreshing to hear a knowledgeable discussion on the realities of choosing a Cat. So often the discussion centers around two misconceptions 1: Cats are faster than monohulls and 2: Cats make better cruisers than monohulls. Go to any number of the larger sailing forums and you will see the heated discussions.
Being a former live aboard cruiser in a 40ft mono I was initially attracted to the two items mentioned above. For our next term afloat I wanted our cake and to eat it too. However when you start to look at actual hard data (ie: passage times) it becomes very apparent that the 40-55ft CondoCats are making very little (if any) improvement in passage times. Downwind times in light air is dreadful and upwind in moderate to strong is terrible on these foil-less Cats.
Case in point, a popular TH-cam vessel Cheeky Monkey is currently attempting a passage from Panama to the Galapagos, a 800nm passage of approx five days. Wind and sea conditions are moderate (10-15kts). However the wind is dead on the nose and they are currently 5 days into the passage and have only traveled approx 450nm. And their course has taken them closer to Ecuador than the Galapagos.
In reviewing ARC passage times it becomes very apparent that the cruising Cats are not out performing the cruising monos.
Clearly there are creature comfort benefits to the Cats, however any purchaser must be aware that they come with a cost, both literally and figuratively. My advise, if you have the budget, look at the Outremers, some Catanas, Schionning or a semi custom vessel such as a Barramundi. Also be aware that Cats need very capable crews and gear to ensure safe passages in big wind, big sea, downwind conditions where under bare poles or minimal canvas, they become a real handful.
There is nothing said in the video to support your claims about comparing the multihulls and monohulls.
Avoid the fat cat - look for plenty of reserve buoyancy, get a watermaker and keep the tanks light - reef early, set up a gust avg alarm, use the foresail options and keep a minimum main. And be ready to deploy a JSD.
+arumrunner I think it would be fair to say that some cruising cats are built more for comfort than speed, for example for sale into the charter fleet. As you mention, some cats are built more towards performance. They're not all the same!
One sort of dividing line might be whether a cat has a daggerboard. While it's no guarantee of performance, if a cat has a daggerboard it may be a more performance oriented design than one that doesn't.
Really enjoyed this little series of videos. I'll never be in the financial situation to be able to afford a cat, but it doesn't stop the desire to spend some months sailing on one, or the dreams (and they literally are dreams) of owning one.
Consider joining a local sailing club. You can enjoy learning to sail for a tiny fraction of the cost of owning a boat. After you've learned, you can charter a boat in a tropical paradise while on holiday. Great fun!
never say never
No one ever considers reliability and robustness. Even with all the money in the world a complex comfy boat still has more parts to break which you might not be able to repair at sea or find someone to fix or you'll spend your time repairing it. If you're going long distance offshore, think about robustness, reliability, simplicity, and repairability.
Which cats have those features? Where can I find out?
@@L5man One thing to look for is how easy are all the systems to access. Do panels easily lift up or doors hinge open to allow you access to your water lines, etc. Or do you need to take apart half of your kitchen cabinets to get to a water pump?
@@L5man Guessing: Marsaudon Composites. Or a custom build. I think Balance might do custom. But there are of course more. Make a comprehensive list of reputable brands, designers and yards and start asking them once you've narrowed down what you want. Or maybe a trimaran like a Rapido or a bañulsdesign/McConaghy 53ft...
brilliant stuff!
Daggerboards don't just improve performance to windward. Raising them reduces drag and improves downwind and reaching performance too.
yeah but they aren't worth the extra maintenance/cost/space requirements. Same reason most mono-hulls have fixed keels.
@@AngryWombat8 but they are worth the reduction in draft. Great advantage for accessing shallow anchorages . Actually I would only buy a cat with them having done lots of racing can't imagine not taking advantage of something that helps you sail better.
Thanks
Very useful info
Thank you for your video. It did help me sleep...
I swear I saw trimarans being shown in this video. I saw two red keels on the center hull on the green boat.
Thanks you Nigel
You need to add an Expandacraft modular boat to your list of toys on board. You can store a 16 foot boat in a small space below deck instead of littering up the topsides.
Cheap, fast, good. Pick two.
Good information, I like the comparisons too. But the sound quality was pretty bad for some reason? And near the end it started focusing on raceboats for some reason?? Most of us watching are more concerned about price, size, living aboard...ect.
The comments about Mod 70s and Gunboats, while interesting, are scarcely applicable to cruising cats.
Nailed it!
Sailing a Leopard Cat for the entire series and then bringing in racing cat specialists like Lloyd and the other guy to pass irrelevant comments is like taking a RV out for spin and then asking Daniel Ricciardo to comment on what to buy, this is really crazy stuff and not at all helpful to newbie catamaran buyers
Sailing Catamaran Diving Adventures
Exactly. "Yes, I'll take the 70' racing trimaran, please. It's indeed exceptionally fast in light winds." Spake the Catalina owner...
Professional writers and bad habits. I'd rather watch an amateur boat video.
I agree to an extent. However, I think the idea was to talk about possible future trends, which very often do come from racing. For example, rotating masts are starting to appear on production boats, and they did come from racing first.
I thought the same thing. I am trying to learn more about Cats for the purpose of living on the water. I want room and stability. I want it sail powered for economical reasons. My family will mostly be sailing between dive sites and island visits.
Totally lost their way in this video..
Not for the first time either..
Catamarans are a good example for me, for how the world is changing technology-wise. I am old enough to remember how catamarans were still a pretty much unheard of thing. Some weird, new curiosity a small number of boat builders were toying around with. Interesting how far this has come since then. Feels like it was just a few years ago and when I say "I am old enough", I'm not talking about being a 90 year old living fossile, I'm 40.
It is the same with other technologies that I remember not existing, but have become ubiquitous since then, like white LEDs for example. I remember being 17, sitting in a high school electronics class and being told by the teacher why red, blue or green LEDs exist, but no white ones and how that is a technology that many people are working on, but nobody could figure out yet, back then. Now it is as if they never not existed, somehow. I can't remember hearing news about white LEDs finally being invented. They just were everywhere one day and I only noticed it in hindsight. Funny how such stuff sneaks up on you.
I wonder what the next big trend or breakthrough technology in boat building might be.
try the Gunboat 55 for performance
Or a Rapido. Or a Dragonfly.
High Performace, Comfortable, Cheap. Choose two.
Honestly High performance is never cheap, and to be even more honest, no decently sized cabin cat (36+ feet) is cheap at all, even for boat standards...
@@AgneDei nor as comfortable.
@@AgneDei Today many "cheap" cats are probably going to be Lagoons. But given what we know about those today - they are all probably going to be project boats requiring complete rebuilds of all the bulkheads (and more)... And who wants that. And even if they get fixed by you or someone else, they'll still sail as good as a brick.
Do we have to see the same intro on every edition of these instructional videos?
yes, buck up buttercup
I like the Catana 42 the best. Nice compromise.
A question? It's still a fortune to me, beeing a financial underdog, but that performance, comfort and high cost is easy. Grainger 10.2 dagger cat. Seems like it can be had for arround 70k and able to do 16+kt. Thoughts?
Probably one of the best selections you could have made, 70k is cheap for a cat with that capability, but it's a bit tight on accommodations for most however, I don't think it has standing room does it?
@@Sugarsail1, actually it does, throughout the boat. Galley is down bellow. It has two double bunks and a single one, quite spacious heads and a massive dining table up on the bridge deck. Twin outboards are prob.something on a down side, but servecing them is prob easyer since u can take them off and into the shop. Bridge deck cleareance is more then 600mm so it should beat into waves quite ok even if it's on a small side. Schionning wilderness 1030,1050 is even better but a bit more expencive, 100,120k eu for a really nice ones.
Why not included trymarains in this documentary? Comparable in speed? What's the main difference besides an extra hull.
Ive always heard monohulls are better, but id sure love to learn how to sail a cat. If they truly are faster, safer, and more comfy for crossing oceans i sure will get one ! Anybody have any thoughts on this ?
Apples and oranges. Catamarans have more space, especially in the salon and cockpit (afterdeck), but can be slower. Some catamarans are more oriented to performance than others. Catamarans can be lighter and more efficient than monohulls since they generally don't have ballasted keels, and they can be more powerful since they generate righting moment from the hulls instead of ballast. Lighter weight and more power means more speed in general. That said, some catamarans are relatively overweight and underpowered. And some are not.
After 16 years and over 50K miles on a 38' cat, I'll take a catamaran. I crewed on monohulls as a younger person and, while generally speaking a mono can point better and are certainly cheaper (the drawback of two hulls/engines/etc), there is no comparison when it comes to speed, comfort and going places a deep draft mono can't go. We sailed more than most mono's because it takes less to get us going, as to the above comment about motoring we never used more than a tank per year as we sailed full time. Their are snooty mono and multi owners and there are sensible mono and multi owners. I hang out with the ones who love to sail, doesn't matter what the boat is....
Monohulls are better at what? Sinking? Rolling at anchor? Finding a slip?..yup they're better at all of those things and that's about it.
I am different, my dream boat is the open ocean 800 expedition catamaran. I really want that boat bad.
You should of wrote prices for racing boats
Can you discuss which boats experience the least bridge-deck slamming, and what design features give this result. For instance, a minimum amount of clearance for the length or width.
Guessing: Highest possible bridge-deck clearence coupled with longest possible boat. Also guessing that construction plays a role here. Slamming is probably going to be horrendous on a Lagoon with broken bulkheads. And I'm assuming that you are aware of Lagoon 450s et al. by now...
Hobie cat 16..... 👏
The videos title betrays the type of vessel illustrating the best performance.
Anyone should know that Trimarans will always outperform cats on the high seas. Period. The problem is the Trimaran offerings for cruising are extremely limited.
The only ones building Trimarans targeted to the cruising market are RAPIDO and NEEL. Two completely different approaches; RAPIDO has focused on both luxury and extreme performance while NEEL appears to be more comfort oriented. Much better looking than most cruising cats that look a bit silly.
The dragonfly’s are nice but are hitting a different demographic.’ Not sure on their blue water chops either.
The lagoon is probably one of the homeliest looking boats I’ve ever seen.
The gold standard for cruising Catamarans used to be the Peter Spronk designs now its Gunboat or Outremer.
I think on the coming years we’ll see more cruising Trimarans.
Nigel why hasn't anybody built hulls (asymmetrical) like Hobie Cat does, NO center board and NO Keels, I am talking big Cats. I had a 14 foot Hobie and a 16 foot Hobie back in the 70s. A catamaran is just a dream. Thanks
Ivansgarage -- Hi Ivan Check out James Warram's designs -- not asymmetrical but does away with the need for windward lift generating keels/foils/daggeboards by using the "knife on edge" principal of hull design as did Lock Crowther on many of his earlier designs -- good windward ability at the expense of load carrying capabilities & does terrible things to the wetted surface area. There's always a compromise / tradeoff Aye.
Dick Newick designed an echo-class trimaran with assymetric amas. Assymetric hulls are not very efficient at generating lift to resist leeway as they have extremely low aspect ratio they just generate turbulence and have higher wetted surface area than a round bilged hull. The round bilge hull with a dagger board is by far the most efficient set up.
Hello, wife and I are planning in retirement and buy a sell boat to sell from Florida to Brazil. Can anyone give an idea what size sell boat safety wise ? Thank you
Depends on your physique. If you have properly bulky top quality components in your rigging that won't jam, and you learn how to reef in all conditions I'm guessing you'll be able to handle something in the 40-60ft range. And bigger boats are probably safer. But of course - no Lagoons.
The triangle is from Tom Follet. Why not attribute it to him? Why is the Marconi rig being assumed? It's not as though Mr. Irens isn't familiar with unstayed masts. It's also nice to pick a boat that isn't likely to have a bow break off....yes, I'm looking at you, Mr. Irens.
because it's not from Follet it's from Newick.
What about a hydrofoil solution. What I understand is that this is about to be popular.
Not really practical for most sailors yet. The daggerboard gives some of the leeway advantages of a foil without the complexity of flying a hull.
How much is too fast? Look at the AC75's doing 53 knots in a monohull.
"Economy - cheap to buy or cheap to run as well."
I didn't realize there was such thing for sailboats.
There isn't, but everything is relative. I pay ~$600 a year to be part of a sailing club and have access to a couple different types of sailboats any time I want to go out. Cheapest way I've found to get my sailing fix.
The boats can typically travel at speeds over 80 knots (150 km/h, 90 mph) in calm waters, over 50 knots (90 km/h) in choppy waters, and maintain 25 knots (47 km/h) in the average five to seven foot (1.5 to 2 m) Caribbean seas.
what what? 80knots?
My Question is, why are boats so expensive even though there are lots of them around? why is it even expensive to salvage an abandoned boat that i could use, fix and live on when there are so many of them just floating on top of water??
Because boat owners are considered the evil 1% by the Marxists and they think you should be punished with lots of taxes and regulations that drive boat ownership up up up. Also, if you have a cheap/free place to haul out a boat and work on it, restoring one is a very good value and you can often find one for very inexpensive. I've restored two boats now and sailed one all over the Pacific and I sold both of them for more than I paid for them...I didn't make money after all I put into it, but considering how long and how much fun I had in both of them it was a very very good deal. Smaller boats are much much much much cheaper if you're on a budget go small and go simple, you don't need all the bullshit electronics and whizbang kit the magazines try to sell you on.
One would take their living room to the racetrack however
There's a better solution, answer 5 questions and the CatamaranFinder will give you the three best matching catamarans! It gave me 86% match on the Dazcat Ocean Cruiser 55!
Is there such a boat?! Don't think Dazcat have built that!
@@yachtingworld it's in the making and looks great!
Some good points but I would disagree about an economy priced boat costing less to maintain. Often times what you save in buying a low priced boat is much less than what it costs to maintain a boat; especially if the components are not marine quality.
This is the difference between inexpensive and cheap. Something inexpensive isn't inherently bad.
It also depends on whether you are ready to sail with minimum luxury or not. Electric winches, autopilot, radar, and all those unnecessary electronics will make your boat a lot more expensive.
And, as per maintenance, add more things that need to be taken care of, and that can fail.
Of course. The kind of electronic luxury we find in a boat is the very kind that will potentially let you down when you most need it.
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My god they need to work on their sound editing
best offshore cats for under 100k ?
Define "offshore." People cross the Atlantic in row boats and barrels. At your price range your pickings are pretty small for anything remotely comfortable and cats don't have much space in that size range/price range. Trimarans start to become a bit more feasible there.
A great mono would be better suited for your budget.
For broke folks, I suspect the Wharram cat is what’s available and seldom spoken of in videos like this
I want a trimaran! :)
Nice wig mate.
My dream cruising cat would be a Privilege 585 built out of carbon, with oversized carbon rotating wing mast for oversized sail plan, carbon rigging and massive carbon dagger boards (similar to the ones on Gunboat extreme H2O) Basically A hotted up Rolls Royce....
If you have the cash I'm sure someone will be willing to build it for you...
Where is episode 7?
Gunboat
Cats aren't cheap. They should be around 200k-300k max for biggest size.so in the future almost everyone on this so-call planet earth should live anywhere they want.
Nice video but where are the catamaran sailing techniques?
3:48 HOW FAST ARE THEY GOING? Why would anyone need to sail that fast...I am a complete novice, my wife and I are talking about selling everything and jumping in this head first...
Difficult to say given the camera angle. I would say the journey is just as much as the destination. Cats are not fast unless they are designed to be fast. Simple as. They are very proportional to mono's...maybe a tad quicker depending on sea state.
Speed, fun or not, is also a major safety feature. Speed can get you out of the way of foul weather you see on the forecast, it can lessen passage time should conditions be unfavourable, decreasing risk by spending less time on those waters. Speed can get you through shipping lanes with higher safety margins, not like a turtle crossing a motorway. With better speed you may have a weather window that is not there if you can only sail slow. Fast boats give you options: with a fast boat you can still sail slow but not vice versa. The fun factor is just the topping on the cake and many cruisers are in for speed for the sake of safety and much less for fun.
Read between the lines....buy a mono if you want to sail...buy a condomaran if you like to motor around and look cool.
You need a particularly twisted mind to read that bullshit between the lines. Nice effort.
Sean Moore - How many miles do you have sailing mono vs cat? I have about 20k on monohulls and 30,000 miles on cats. Your not married are you?...lol My cat is 33ft and I consistently point with and out perform 40+ foot monohulls. The "Cool factor" is that I get there and I'm on my second sundowner whey you arrive. Oh and also, my living room isn't in the belly of the beast.
W-what?
Ok, I guess this video was a total waste of my time, since it does not really help you on "How to choose a catamaran"!!!
just buy a gunboat.
Or something from Rapido, Marsaudon Composites, Dazcat, Outremer or Dragonfly. Or that custom 53ft trimaran design from bañulsdesign/McConaghy. Or something else that is cool.
Only for the very rich.
I know a lot of poor people that built their own cats over 10-20 years and sailed around the world...not rich just very hard working and dedicated.
well I wanted family car that was sort of fun to drive , well you will a turbo charged open when wheel mono-cock construction . there is absolutely nothing the middle . Bullshit . I have after 40 plus years of sailing that the shittiest over weighted cat will blow the battens of a traditional full keel mono hull cruiser or for that matter a J boat. Instead of four -five knots you are looking 7-10 that's huge . this video was completely dumb.
Nothing of relevance here jumping from cruising car to race cat - 90% of people out there are only looking into cruising lifestyle not to race - so why bring up the race aspect into this video- I did not benefit anything from your video
The triangle he draws is what you should take to heart and you will find it to be true and a good guide in selecting a boat. He didn't bring up the "race" aspect he brought up the performance aspect. And considering how many people I know that own cats (most are racers) I suspect your 90% stat has been pulled out of thin air. Also a lot of people see a catamaran and assume it is a fast sailing boat but this is not the case with the large condomarans...many sail worse than a comparable monohull and this video describes the design attributes that are the primary contributor to price and performance, if that's not useful info for you, I think you need to watch it again.