Your guides focus on teaching rather than showing off what you've built like most other content creators claiming to post tutorials. Keep it up. You're going to get quite a following.
These guides are much more entertaining and comprehensive than those made by other creators and the explanations are much clearer. You've done really well making these.
Great tips. 👍 A couple more: (1) It is important that a train can clear the junction when it commits to it. You don't want its back end hanging out in the intersection. To ensure that it always clears, make each block on the exit side large enough for your biggest train. There are minor throughput trade-offs depending on how long your trains are, but it prevents gridlock. (2) If you don't have room for big enough exit blocks because you have another junction close, treat the two junctions as one large junction and signal appropriately.
Amendments (Updated 12/31/2022): One cool addition that I'm sad that I missed is that if you have an intersection that is controlled with path signals (path signals at the entrances and block signals at the exits), then trains will NOT enter an intersection IF THE NEXT BLOCK AFTER THE INTERSECTION IS OCCUPIED. This is a cool feature as the train will not enter the intersection and completely block it, allowing for other train traffic that's traveling in different directions to keep moving. In regards to trains taking the shortest possible distance: I'm still discovering the logic behind trains, and as a few have pointed out, there are a few exceptions in regards to trains taking the shortest possible distance. Trains will opt to utilize bypass lines around train stations even if the bypass line is an overall longer distance to the train's destination. However there is a limit to this, as trains will not do this if the bypass line is excessively long. In regards to Push-Pull bypass lines: You CAN create bypass lines with the push-pull system. Basically, a push-pull system is a bi-directional rail system. In order to create a bypass line on the push-pull system, you will go to the point in your rail line where you want to create your bypass line. You will then need to split your single rail bi-directional line into TWO one-way rail lines, with each rail line designating traffic in a single direction of travel through the use of signals, and the lengths of those bypass lines being long enough to fit the full length of an entire train line. In regards to both block and path signals: The natural state for block signals is always green. Meaning that normally trains will go barreling towards it at high speeds, and come to a dead-stop when it suddenly turns red. The Natural state for path signals is always red. Meaning that normally trains will slow to a stop when approaching them. Moving trains do actually not just check the next block signal, they check ALL the block signals that are within their current braking distance. If it detects a red signal within their braking distance, then they will begin to slow down and stop long before they actually reach it. Also, this can give the illusion that some trains my be slowing down when approaching some intersections that are controlled by block signals when they are all green. Thanks to @ARES IV RC for the helpful clarifications!
My theory as to why trains sometimes have to do the magic emergency break: Trains have a point riding in front of them on their path that reserves the blocks for them, or tells them to brake if the block (or path through the block) cant be reserved. In factorio, the distance of that point to the nose of the physical train scales with speed, so trains will reserve any block they could not avoid running into even if they started to break at this very moment. (Theory starts here) In satisfactory the point is either at a fixed distance or the scaling is done improperly, so trains don't reserve blocks even if they couldn't avoid going into them just by braking normally. This is when they do the magical stop and brake down to 0 in an instant
A simpler way to explain path signals: Using only block signals makes your trains see the entire intersection as a single entity(block) that will only let 1 train inside(or pass through) at a time. Path signals allow the game to check individual paths within the intersection for collisions thus allowing multiple trains to pass through the intersection at the same time(as long as it avoid collisions). Also, I love the guides, it's hard to believe that part 1 was your first edited video. They are professional and entertaining. Very nice job! I started with the bonus video which was what I needed the most, now I'm just checking out parts 1-3 because you do such great work, so, thank you! The rest of the stuff; I had fun figuring out myself. Other than that, I had issues with my first rail system, which was a simple push-pull rail to bring in my oil-based products to my main factory and I used another channels video to figure that out way back when I started into trains. I just didn't think to have the train stop on the opposite side.
After all this "Rember: Path Signals on the Entrances and Block Signals after Intersections" I think even I got it. Thanks a lot for the countless repeatings. :)
This is hands down the best train guide on TH-cam. Path signals have been a complete mystery to me until now. Your method of teaching is easy to understand, and I especially appreciate that you focus on building up a foundation before teaching more complex topics. Thank you!
For anyone wondering why train slowdown in front of path signal is that path signals are red by default contrary to block signal that are green by default. path signal will only "think" and turn green when the train enter the block before the path signal. You can prevent slow down by having a longer block in front of the path signal so it doesnt slow down, alternatively you can use chain path signals before a intersection so that it doesnt slow down right before the intersection but a little earlier and "thus" can go faster through. Btw toaster sir... You can have a bypass lane on a single way track because signals are directionnal so you basically separete a single two way track into two single way for a small distance so that on train can go around the other you just need block signals for this. If you place a signal that blocks a train from going on way, it will still work if another way is available. So you make two parallel track with signal at each end in different direction and then only after that you merge both in a single lane track with no other signals because the train needs a way to come back, this works but only with 2 or 3 trains tho(or however many more train fits in your bypass), otherwise you can have a deadlock since one train cannot enter the bypass and the exit is also blocked. You could go around that by having multiple bypass lane connected with a path signal since it will reserve a track but also check if the block after the reserved path is open so that the train is not stuck in the middle. Path signal will not let a train through if the block after the path is occupied
Congratz on being the only one that managed to create a train tutorial that not only explains how stuff actually work instead of just showing how to magically fix very specific situations, leaving the mystery of how it works behind. I also never understood the use of path signals until now, no one thought to mention that it allows multiple trains on the same block if done right xD that's a huge advantage over block signals!
Pro tip by someone who played too many train related games: the block signal at the exit of an intersection should at least be 1 train length away from the intersection. This prevents the train waiting on the intersection itself if the next block after it is occupied. With the block signal being one train length away, the Train can clear the intersection and then wait for the path to clear without blocking the intersection for all other trains. The path signal then should give a green light to any other train that wishes to cross the intersection in another direction.
Excellent guide! :-) Regarding trains slowing down before signals, you can actually avoid that: - Moving trains do actually not just check the next block signal, they check ALL the block signals that are within their current braking distance. This means that a heavy train going 200 kmh (the highest speed any automated train by now is allowed to reach) will check block signals much further ahead than a empty train doing 50 kmh. So the train always looks ahead far enough, so that it can properly (without cheating physics) come to a stop in front of the next red signal/station. A block signal sstandard setting is green. So unless something is blocked, a series of block signals wont stop a train from maintaining 120 kmh. A path signal standard setting is red. Trains treat it as red signal and as such begin to brake in sufficient distance to come to a full stop. Since it it a good idea to place block signals regularly, the train often will already begin to brake even though it has several green block signals ahead, just so that it could stop in front of the (red) path signal if it has to: This often leads to a slowdown, because the braking distance of the train is often longer than the distance between the block and the path signal: Scenario: Lets assume equal signal distance and a braking distance of 4 signals: Block Signal Block Signal Block Signal Block Signal Block Signal Path Signal Block Signal Block Signal - all signals in braking distance are green, maintain speed Block Signal - Path signal is counted as red, beginning to brake Block Signal - braking Block Signal - braking Block Signal - The request for a path is only send once the train passed the last block signal in front of the path signal. Only now, the path signal will check the path and turn green. Path Signal - now turning green, train accelerates again Block Signal To avoid trains slowing down, the distance between the last block signal and the path signal, has to be longer than the braking distance of the train. Then the green path signal can be requested in time and the train will keep running at full speed. :-)
I was about to give up on this game after putting about 150 hours into it, because I decided that I need trains to progress in a useful manner and got a headache as soon as I started putting down my first tracks. Your guides helped me finishing my first railroad and are very entertaining while still being to the point. You've got a talent for explaining stuff in an interesting way. Thanks for your guides!
I tackled fixing my train system for like the 3rd or 4th time and I FINALLY got it right this time after watching your guide(s). Thank you so much! Also, A+ for the memes inbetween
I have almost watched all the videos related to signal but i must say you explain it best....such a underrated channel...both part 1 and 2 are informative
Excellent guide. Other comments have mentioned that you can in fact have a bypass/crossing section in a push-pull system by making the lanes one-way. But another option is to combine push-pull with a full double-rail setup, rather than using loops. Something like the uranium node in the winding tunnel/cave would be an option for push-pull as there's not much room for a loop. Another option with a double-rail system, especially if going for looks, can be to have some (shorter) sections single-track (bi-direction). Works well for narrow canyons and caves, or maybe bridges or even helixes...
3:30 The one other use for the manual switch that i’ve found is if you’re trying to back a train up along a particular path. You can’t change switches from inside the cabin when reversing. The pioneer has to exit the train, flip the switch and then get back in and back up.
Hey Toast. You can create a bypass lane so trains can pass each other on a single track two way shunt line. The caveat is that the two rails, aka the main rail and the bypass rail have to be one way in the section where you want the bypass. The intersections should be treated as complex intersections. Right before the turn off has a path signal, a block signal right after the turn off. At the other end of the bypass line drop another path signal right before the junction. Put a block signal after the junction across from the entrance path signal for that side of the bypass. You are just turning a two way single rail into a two way double rail and back again for the passing area.
Excellent guide and really humourous keeping us all engaged! Path signals are super clear now, also good you demonstrated exactly how path signals work via graphics as well. Brilliant stuff.
Coming from Factorio, I expected path signals to work the same as chain signals. It seems they accomplish the same goal, but with satisfactory's implementation being simpler, but more obscured, which makes them harder to learn funnily enough. In Factorio, chain signals don't automatically differentiate two separate paths that can be simultaneously traveled through in an intersection, you have to do that by chaining each path through one. I always chide people on the chain in rail out principle for factorio since it isn't the end all be all, but it actually works for this game.
24:07 Not sure if anybody beat me to it, but there is actually a way to circumvent the fact that a single-lane network with two push-pull trains will avoid colliding. Remember that the block signals are directional? Make one side of the meeting junction into one block and the other side into another. Now, make sure that these blocks only allow for traffic in a single direction, each side covering the different directions respectively. Keep in mind that this method requires you to break the rule of "path signals into intersections and blocks out". Your intersections into these junctions should be baked into the blocks that seperate the meeting junctions. Give it a shot! Hit me up if I explained it poorly and you need a demonstration. I got you covered, promise.
Thanks for the guides Roster, i was "this" close to just building another conveyor line across half the map. Then I thought how much work that was going to be. So after deciding to tackle trains and getting a good half of the rails placed, your guides came out. This video in particular will save me a ton of experimentation, thus increasing my efficiency. Not getting shot out of a cannon into the sun is... Appreciated.
I've been playing for quite a while and I have seen quite a few videos on Satisfactory. There's a few on trains and their networks and some are good some are okay but most of them don't really do you any justice. Not only is this very informative with a clean and clear explanation of how to use them, when, where and why you should use the, which types of situations or scenarios requires certain methods, what does and doesn't work; it is also packed with some very good humor both spoken and unspoken. This is great quality content and deserves a lot more likes and subscriptions. Very well done!
Amazing work both at creating a comprehensive and clear guide but also at entertaining with it. I will definitely continue to follow and looking forward to the next content.
WOW! This is JUST what I needed!! Keep getting those feet wet my guy, you've more than earned it!! I wanted trains to help with my big modular build, but GOOD LAAAWD they're intimidating!!! So much so that I just downloaded one and put it in my save file!! After this and Part 1, I'm more confident that I can manage it on my own and make it much more efficient for what I have built already. THANK YOU!!
Thank you for that wonderful path explanation... using the visual effects in order like that was a perfect way to relate them and made more sense than anything I've seen on this or factorio ect... just a good explanation ty
i would like to see some tutorials to build clean intersections for example how do i get a clean ramp-curve below/above my track (foundations required for maximum incline and minimum turning radius) i manage to build them but it takes a lot of trial and error and in the end they do not look exactly like the one i did 2 days prior :D
Ah yes build tips was something that I wish I put in part 1 but it will be coming in part 3! Here's a quick tip though: Using foundations as a grid, the shortest 90 degree turn that you can make is on a 3x3 grid in an L-shape. Make sure when doing this, that your rails are centered on the foundations. Place a starter rail segment centered at the very edge of the foundation, leading up to the 3x3 grid first. Then place down your corner rail segment second, dragging it to the edge of the grid on the opposite side of the starter segment. That's all there is to it! You now have a nice crisp 90 degree turn and from there you can continue to build off of it! The 3x3 grid corner can be a bit quirky. You MUST place down a starter segment first, then your corner segment, and lastly an end segment. If you try to build the corner segment last by placing it in between a starter and an end segment, then the game will bug out and refuse to do it. To make larger turns, the idea is the same and they won't be as troublesome as the 3x3 turn. In terms of incorporating height into your turns, then for the 3x3 90 degree turn, I've found that stacking TWO 4m foundations on top of eachother seems to be the rough limit. On that last foundation on your grid where you want your turn to end, simply stack two 4m foundations above or below it and you'll be able to place your corner rail segment down, making a nice sharp turn on a crisp incline. I hope I was able to explain that properly, if not then railing down rails will be apart of the next and final video!
I wrote up some rail-placement tips in a couple of blog posts early last year, with pictures. I mostly did it so I'd have handy reminders on how to keep rail lines clean and neat in my own builds, but if they come in handy, great: greyduck.net/journal/3908 and the addendum post greyduck.net/journal/3924
Hey Toaster! I've been watching your two Satisfactory Train Tutorials now and I really like them! It's good to follow and the amount of puns and humor is just perfect for me! I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your Satisfactory content.
There is a way to simplify your training network significantly. If you build a second line above the first one (9 meters apart). This way you would not have a complex intersections anymore. Either splits or joins but never crossing another line.
One of my first co-op games, we did Bauxite from the Red Bamboo site down to the Crater Lakes and the delivery station was at the bottom of a long ramp. First time we saw the automated train just STOP at the station after approaching at considerable speed, we burst out laughing for several solid minutes. Physics? Who needs it! (Certainly not the game that lets concrete slabs hover in the air indefinitely...)
Definitely a sight to see when you witness it happen for the first time! We technically have the equivalent of a black hole acting as a backpack for our inventory, so yeah, physics who needs em!
Could you use an "intermittant" train station to bypass the shortest route rule for a push-pull network? You would have to set it up at the right spot, which could be annoying, but it might work. Essentially a dummy station to make a push-pull system get out of the way of itself.
Very clear, detailed and informative guide on train networks, and entertaining too. Good work! One correction for 23:28 though: Building bypass lines on a push-pull rail system is entirely possible if you make each side of the bypass one-way only. Then trains going in the opposite directions will always navigate down opposite sides of the bypass and avoid each other. Visual (B for block signal, P for path signal): Note: You CAN do more than 2 trains by building multiple bypasses along the push-pull rail, but you're probably just better off with a closed loop or double-rail system at that point.
You are the first to prove me wrong, and as such have claimed the bounty! Thanks for pointing that out, you're absolutely correct, I'll point that out quickly in the next video
Dam 6 hours late for the bounty. My entire network is push pull and I have 30 trains running on it. Though 80% of it is a double line push pull to increase throughput rather than using bypasses.
I love satisfactory, but I absolutely hate trains and often end up giving up and making a new world once I reach the point where they become necessary. I love your guide and feel much better about creating these rail systems. But my main issue that I dont ever see people make videos about is how to actually set up the train stations and manage the trains themselves. If I have a complex factory that requires a ton of different inputs or produces many outputs. I don't know how to set it up. Does every train freight need to deliver the same item? How do you keep track of the order of the trains for each station? And how do you sort them out of the train and make it understandable? You mentioned some of the basics about it in the first video. But I would love if your part 3 or another video could go more in depth about this part that is what gives me the most headaches. Maybe you could run through different examples or ways people set up these schedules? Can you set up a each input/output individually? Set up a central processing hub to sort and process? Have have mixed inputs/outputs? How do fluids affect the process? Thanks again, love your video and edits!
I totally get what you're saying! After update 5, trains became super technical and, sadly, they are the most inefficient and frustrating way to transport resources around. Nothing will ever beat conveyers being dragged out along crazy distances of your map for resource transportation, but trains are super cool when you get your network up and running! Part 3 will definitely touch on some of the things that you mentioned, but it may not be in the depth that youre looking for. However once I finish part 3, I have been considering doing an advanced users guide as well which would cover many of those things that you mentioned, with examples included. Glad you enjoyed these videos and I hope that some of things that come up in part 3 can help you out in the mean time!
I loved that line "eh I'll come back to it later. These are great videos! It's almost like zero punctuation had a love affair with Satisfactory and made these videos were made. If you don't watch zp you should give it a look. Great tips, advice and hilarious. I would love to see a video on how you make your intersections, the more 3 dimensional ones. I have loads of flat intersections, but always struggled with layered ones.
@@ToasterGamingYT Alas, could you guide me *plonk* 10 and tell me: can I UNLOAD and LOAD in one train station (unload alclad, load sulfur) or do I have to make two stations?
@@pinkyandbrain123 you can load and unload at a single station! You just need to use two separate freight cats and two separate freight platofrms. Set each freight platform to load and unload respectively and it will work no problem
@@ToasterGamingYT See, I dont get the "one station, two platforms" I have a station and two platforms attached. I have two trains going to this station. One to unload two cars of Alclad, one with two cars to pick up sulfur. to combine this in one station-assembly-complex is not possible, is it? Thanks for your patience!
@@pinkyandbrain123 I see what you're saying! Unfortunately you can't load and unload at the same freight platform. It's still possible to do what you want to do at a single train station, but in your case you'll have to extend out your train station include 4 freight platforms total. Then, as an example, set the first two freight platforms to load and fill them with Sulfur only. Set the last two freight platforms to unload and have them unload your alclad sheets. The train carrying your alclad sheets will also have to be 4 freight cars long, with the last two cars carrying your alclad sheets for this to work.
Automated trains being able to instantly stop is just to allow simple signal designs without repercussions due to inertia. If two trains were approaching an intersection that was properly signaled, but the signals were too close to the intersection, two trains could end up barreling through and colliding even if one was trying to stop. I assume it would lead to a lot of player confusion when trains seem to "randomly" crash even when set up "correctly". To alleviate this issue, path signals would need to be placed in a chain (i.e. chain signals) approaching the intersection: one near the intersection as the final stopping/waiting point, and one much farther back on the approach to that final signal as a "hey, this is where you need to stop slowing down if the path signal at the intersection says no bueno." This would in turn require the player to have a good understanding of the train's inertia, momentum and breaking potential to know just how far back the initial chain signal would need to be. It would be more realistic (probably a great mod concept if one doesn't exist already) but way too finicky and in-depth for the average player, who just wants choo choo go fast. TL;DR: It's a gameplay first, physics second decision.
While ultimately the goal of language is communication, and what you meant was completely clear, I will point out that what you call a “train line” in the video has an actual name IRL: either a “consist” or just a “train.” The engine or locomotive on it own is the engine or locomotive, and would only properly be called a “train” by itself if no cars are attached to it. Further the term “train line” can be a bit confusing because “line” can mean several things related to the track the trains run on: “line,” “service” or “route” are used for the set of track a train traverses over the course of following its timetable, and “line,” can be used for a set of rails operated as a single distinct section of a network or a small isolated network, like the “main line” or the “southern loop line” or the “spire coast oil line.” And finally, what you’re calling a “Push-Pull” network, while an accurate descriptor, would normally be called a “double-headed train” or “double-headed service.” IRL these are only used for longer trains that need to both push and pull, as shorter ones can just run in reverse like the player can, but since autonomous trains can’t do that in Satisfactory, it’s perfectly understandable to conflate the two. Again, this is still an excellent guide, and I don’t want to gatekeep, just would be nice to keep in mind for the future.
The path required by a train when approaching a path signal is assessed by that path signal when the train passes the preceeding block signal. That's why trains slow down when approaching a path signal where the preceding block signal is close to it. Because the path hasn't yet been assessed, the path signal is set to STOP, so the train pre-empts that and slows down. To prevent this, place the preceding block signal some distance from the path signal. Then the path will be assessed well in advance and the train won't have to slow.
Very nice!!! Not only funny and full of tips its also very well explained. Makes me almost sad I can't subscribe to your channel - already did with your first part ;-) Keep it up!
Constructive criticism... Don't put signals on TWO-WAY rails, not even on the switches at either end, and they will work fine for shared push-pull setups. Treat the whole two-way (and the on/off ramps connected to it) like a 'simple intersection', Path Signal -before- and Block Signal -After-. The only time it's okay to put signals on a two-way rail is when it's 'private' (one train assigned to it) and there's no chance for a deadlock. :) Great video otherwise! Clear and comprehensive! =)
Hi Toaster, Thanks for the informative videos on Satisfactory. Please continue making them. Question, can you have a train with multiple locos on both ends facing back 2 back and have it work? Hopefully I explained that correctly. Thanks.
Great question! Yes you can, the two outermost locomotives on a push-pull system must be facing outwards for it to work. Any other locomotives in the middle of the train can be in any order and face any direction and it will still work! Same applies to the closed loop trains, only the lead locomotive needs to be facing forwards, any other locomotives that you add to the train line can be in any order and face any direction and it will work no problem!
9:37 I suppose the naive implementation of blocks is to flag a block as occupied immediately when a train enters it, and stop all trains that approach an occupied block, and leave it at that. My guess (how I'd do it) is that the high calculability of trains' paths is leveraged, checking blocks for incoming trains, and at which speeds, and give the train that will pass through the block first, or something, right of way. Still doesn't explain why the slow train at 9:37 entered the block at all though.
what if you made the bypass intersection from the push pull method an equal length intersection where either path is the same distance would that make it work correctly?
The part about trains only taking the shortest possible path is incorrect. I have bypasses on my stations, trains can either go straight through the station or around it, and they correctly choose the bypass if they aren't stopping there and another train is occupying the station. And what you say doesn't work at 23:26 definitely works. You have too many signals in your example. Make each side of the split track one way. Each fork in the track should have 4 signals around it. From the point of view of a train entering the fork from the single track side of it, you should see a path on the right before the fork, a block on the right track after the fork, a block facing away from you on the left before the fork, and a path facing away from you on the left track after the fork. I built an example like yours (but with the signals right) and put *3* trains on it, it's running fine.
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
Your guides focus on teaching rather than showing off what you've built like most other content creators claiming to post tutorials. Keep it up. You're going to get quite a following.
These guides are much more entertaining and comprehensive than those made by other creators and the explanations are much clearer. You've done really well making these.
Thank you very much! :)
Guide counter: 8
Great tips. 👍
A couple more:
(1) It is important that a train can clear the junction when it commits to it. You don't want its back end hanging out in the intersection. To ensure that it always clears, make each block on the exit side large enough for your biggest train. There are minor throughput trade-offs depending on how long your trains are, but it prevents gridlock.
(2) If you don't have room for big enough exit blocks because you have another junction close, treat the two junctions as one large junction and signal appropriately.
Great points! These will no doubt be featured in the build tips and troubleshooting guide in the next video ;)
Amendments (Updated 12/31/2022):
One cool addition that I'm sad that I missed is that if you have an intersection that is controlled with path signals (path signals at the entrances and block signals at the exits), then trains will NOT enter an intersection IF THE NEXT BLOCK AFTER THE INTERSECTION IS OCCUPIED. This is a cool feature as the train will not enter the intersection and completely block it, allowing for other train traffic that's traveling in different directions to keep moving.
In regards to trains taking the shortest possible distance:
I'm still discovering the logic behind trains, and as a few have pointed out, there are a few exceptions in regards to trains taking the shortest possible distance. Trains will opt to utilize bypass lines around train stations even if the bypass line is an overall longer distance to the train's destination. However there is a limit to this, as trains will not do this if the bypass line is excessively long.
In regards to Push-Pull bypass lines:
You CAN create bypass lines with the push-pull system. Basically, a push-pull system is a bi-directional rail system. In order to create a bypass line on the push-pull system, you will go to the point in your rail line where you want to create your bypass line. You will then need to split your single rail bi-directional line into TWO one-way rail lines, with each rail line designating traffic in a single direction of travel through the use of signals, and the lengths of those bypass lines being long enough to fit the full length of an entire train line.
In regards to both block and path signals:
The natural state for block signals is always green. Meaning that normally trains will go barreling towards it at high speeds, and come to a dead-stop when it suddenly turns red.
The Natural state for path signals is always red. Meaning that normally trains will slow to a stop when approaching them.
Moving trains do actually not just check the next block signal, they check ALL the block signals that are within their current braking distance. If it detects a red signal within their braking distance, then they will begin to slow down and stop long before they actually reach it. Also, this can give the illusion that some trains my be slowing down when approaching some intersections that are controlled by block signals when they are all green.
Thanks to @ARES IV RC for the helpful clarifications!
Your world is so chaotic and organized at the same time and I love it
Edit: Also love the drone swarm at 19:35
It is very much an organized mess
My theory as to why trains sometimes have to do the magic emergency break:
Trains have a point riding in front of them on their path that reserves the blocks for them, or tells them to brake if the block (or path through the block) cant be reserved.
In factorio, the distance of that point to the nose of the physical train scales with speed, so trains will reserve any block they could not avoid running into even if they started to break at this very moment.
(Theory starts here)
In satisfactory the point is either at a fixed distance or the scaling is done improperly, so trains don't reserve blocks even if they couldn't avoid going into them just by braking normally. This is when they do the magical stop and brake down to 0 in an instant
A simpler way to explain path signals: Using only block signals makes your trains see the entire intersection as a single entity(block) that will only let 1 train inside(or pass through) at a time. Path signals allow the game to check individual paths within the intersection for collisions thus allowing multiple trains to pass through the intersection at the same time(as long as it avoid collisions).
Also, I love the guides, it's hard to believe that part 1 was your first edited video. They are professional and entertaining. Very nice job! I started with the bonus video which was what I needed the most, now I'm just checking out parts 1-3 because you do such great work, so, thank you! The rest of the stuff; I had fun figuring out myself. Other than that, I had issues with my first rail system, which was a simple push-pull rail to bring in my oil-based products to my main factory and I used another channels video to figure that out way back when I started into trains. I just didn't think to have the train stop on the opposite side.
Damn, that Hypertube Booster skipped Ludicrous Speed and went straight to Plaid.
Good content. +1 sub
After all this "Rember: Path Signals on the Entrances and Block Signals after Intersections" I think even I got it. Thanks a lot for the countless repeatings. :)
This is hands down the best train guide on TH-cam. Path signals have been a complete mystery to me until now. Your method of teaching is easy to understand, and I especially appreciate that you focus on building up a foundation before teaching more complex topics. Thank you!
Love the in-depth explanations about trains but this is also where I learned that the boombox oneshots the flying crabs?! great b-roll
For anyone wondering why train slowdown in front of path signal is that path signals are red by default contrary to block signal that are green by default. path signal will only "think" and turn green when the train enter the block before the path signal. You can prevent slow down by having a longer block in front of the path signal so it doesnt slow down, alternatively you can use chain path signals before a intersection so that it doesnt slow down right before the intersection but a little earlier and "thus" can go faster through.
Btw toaster sir... You can have a bypass lane on a single way track because signals are directionnal so you basically separete a single two way track into two single way for a small distance so that on train can go around the other you just need block signals for this. If you place a signal that blocks a train from going on way, it will still work if another way is available. So you make two parallel track with signal at each end in different direction and then only after that you merge both in a single lane track with no other signals because the train needs a way to come back, this works but only with 2 or 3 trains tho(or however many more train fits in your bypass), otherwise you can have a deadlock since one train cannot enter the bypass and the exit is also blocked. You could go around that by having multiple bypass lane connected with a path signal since it will reserve a track but also check if the block after the reserved path is open so that the train is not stuck in the middle. Path signal will not let a train through if the block after the path is occupied
Congratz on being the only one that managed to create a train tutorial that not only explains how stuff actually work instead of just showing how to magically fix very specific situations, leaving the mystery of how it works behind.
I also never understood the use of path signals until now, no one thought to mention that it allows multiple trains on the same block if done right xD that's a huge advantage over block signals!
Pro tip by someone who played too many train related games: the block signal at the exit of an intersection should at least be 1 train length away from the intersection.
This prevents the train waiting on the intersection itself if the next block after it is occupied. With the block signal being one train length away, the Train can clear the intersection and then wait for the path to clear without blocking the intersection for all other trains. The path signal then should give a green light to any other train that wishes to cross the intersection in another direction.
Dude,you have the most unique way of explaining things.Keep it up,I am enjoying/loving/learning things in this video.
I've watched a bunch of train guides, and this is by far the best.
Excellent guide! :-)
Regarding trains slowing down before signals, you can actually avoid that:
- Moving trains do actually not just check the next block signal, they check ALL the block signals that are within their current braking distance. This means that a heavy train going 200 kmh (the highest speed any automated train by now is allowed to reach) will check block signals much further ahead than a empty train doing 50 kmh.
So the train always looks ahead far enough, so that it can properly (without cheating physics) come to a stop in front of the next red signal/station.
A block signal sstandard setting is green. So unless something is blocked, a series of block signals wont stop a train from maintaining 120 kmh.
A path signal standard setting is red. Trains treat it as red signal and as such begin to brake in sufficient distance to come to a full stop. Since it it a good idea to place block signals regularly, the train often will already begin to brake even though it has several green block signals ahead, just so that it could stop in front of the (red) path signal if it has to:
This often leads to a slowdown, because the braking distance of the train is often longer than the distance between the block and the path signal:
Scenario:
Lets assume equal signal distance and a braking distance of 4 signals:
Block Signal
Block Signal
Block Signal
Block Signal
Block Signal
Path Signal
Block Signal
Block Signal - all signals in braking distance are green, maintain speed
Block Signal - Path signal is counted as red, beginning to brake
Block Signal - braking
Block Signal - braking
Block Signal - The request for a path is only send once the train passed the last block signal in front of the path signal. Only now, the path signal will check the path and turn green.
Path Signal - now turning green, train accelerates again
Block Signal
To avoid trains slowing down, the distance between the last block signal and the path signal, has to be longer than the braking distance of the train. Then the green path signal can be requested in time and the train will keep running at full speed. :-)
even if im not fluent in english this guide help me sooo much, thank you ! great job !
I've tried to watch a few 'guide' videos for this and, to be honest, this is the only good one
Finally, an extensive satisfactory train video !! Even with bidirectionnal traffic (which is typically what your average player like me begin with) ❤
Thanks, glad I was able to squeeze in bidirectional segments!
You are truly a godsend. Thank you for this guide, I was tearing my hair out trying to figure it out.
At last, a simple explanation for path signals :D top guide Toaster, thx
I was about to give up on this game after putting about 150 hours into it, because I decided that I need trains to progress in a useful manner and got a headache as soon as I started putting down my first tracks. Your guides helped me finishing my first railroad and are very entertaining while still being to the point.
You've got a talent for explaining stuff in an interesting way.
Thanks for your guides!
I've been looking for train tutorials all morning and this is the first series that actually made it all click for me. You're killing it!
I tackled fixing my train system for like the 3rd or 4th time and I FINALLY got it right this time after watching your guide(s). Thank you so much! Also, A+ for the memes inbetween
I have almost watched all the videos related to signal but i must say you explain it best....such a underrated channel...both part 1 and 2 are informative
Hands down the best satisfactory youtuber. More vids please :)
Excellent guide.
Other comments have mentioned that you can in fact have a bypass/crossing section in a push-pull system by making the lanes one-way. But another option is to combine push-pull with a full double-rail setup, rather than using loops. Something like the uranium node in the winding tunnel/cave would be an option for push-pull as there's not much room for a loop.
Another option with a double-rail system, especially if going for looks, can be to have some (shorter) sections single-track (bi-direction). Works well for narrow canyons and caves, or maybe bridges or even helixes...
This is, by far, the best train guide I have watched in Satisfactory.
3:30 The one other use for the manual switch that i’ve found is if you’re trying to back a train up along a particular path. You can’t change switches from inside the cabin when reversing. The pioneer has to exit the train, flip the switch and then get back in and back up.
great guide. great humor.
Hey Toast. You can create a bypass lane so trains can pass each other on a single track two way shunt line. The caveat is that the two rails, aka the main rail and the bypass rail have to be one way in the section where you want the bypass. The intersections should be treated as complex intersections.
Right before the turn off has a path signal, a block signal right after the turn off. At the other end of the bypass line drop another path signal right before the junction. Put a block signal after the junction across from the entrance path signal for that side of the bypass.
You are just turning a two way single rail into a two way double rail and back again for the passing area.
the diagrams made it more easier to understand. amazing content!
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this guide to explain the signals so even I can understand it.
Great job! Our train networks will be the pride of FICSIT.
This was really helpful in sorting out the mechanics at play. Thank you for the explanations.
Excellent guide and really humourous keeping us all engaged! Path signals are super clear now, also good you demonstrated exactly how path signals work via graphics as well. Brilliant stuff.
Well done, informative, and entertaining! Thank you for putting the huge energy into making these for us!
Thank you good sir!
Dude, that office sub-plot was masterful!
Well, great Videos, now i start my 1st train project ...
Perfect guides. Thanks.
One of the best explanations of signals I’ve seen. The red, yellow, green dot/arrow overlays were really helpful! Thanks!
Coming from Factorio, I expected path signals to work the same as chain signals. It seems they accomplish the same goal, but with satisfactory's implementation being simpler, but more obscured, which makes them harder to learn funnily enough. In Factorio, chain signals don't automatically differentiate two separate paths that can be simultaneously traveled through in an intersection, you have to do that by chaining each path through one. I always chide people on the chain in rail out principle for factorio since it isn't the end all be all, but it actually works for this game.
Fantastic Guide, Toaster!! Very well described and easy to follow for people who don't know about trains, i hope this video reaches more people
Thanks Bitz, glad to hear that from you! You keep up the good work too! :)
This tutorial is so good, thank you! Also love all the little puns
24:07 Not sure if anybody beat me to it, but there is actually a way to circumvent the fact that a single-lane network with two push-pull trains will avoid colliding. Remember that the block signals are directional? Make one side of the meeting junction into one block and the other side into another. Now, make sure that these blocks only allow for traffic in a single direction, each side covering the different directions respectively. Keep in mind that this method requires you to break the rule of "path signals into intersections and blocks out". Your intersections into these junctions should be baked into the blocks that seperate the meeting junctions. Give it a shot! Hit me up if I explained it poorly and you need a demonstration. I got you covered, promise.
Wow! Just finished part 2. These guides have been excellent. Well thought out and executed. Well done! And thank you.
This is exactly what I needed to help me understand this. Thank you! Also, Subscriber number 400! Woo
Thanks for the guides Roster, i was "this" close to just building another conveyor line across half the map. Then I thought how much work that was going to be. So after deciding to tackle trains and getting a good half of the rails placed, your guides came out.
This video in particular will save me a ton of experimentation, thus increasing my efficiency. Not getting shot out of a cannon into the sun is... Appreciated.
I've been playing for quite a while and I have seen quite a few videos on Satisfactory. There's a few on trains and their networks and some are good some are okay but most of them don't really do you any justice. Not only is this very informative with a clean and clear explanation of how to use them, when, where and why you should use the, which types of situations or scenarios requires certain methods, what does and doesn't work; it is also packed with some very good humor both spoken and unspoken. This is great quality content and deserves a lot more likes and subscriptions. Very well done!
Very well described, i understood everything! Great video.
Awesome series, thank you
Amazing work both at creating a comprehensive and clear guide but also at entertaining with it. I will definitely continue to follow and looking forward to the next content.
Earned youself a sub, good work keep it up!
WOW! This is JUST what I needed!! Keep getting those feet wet my guy, you've more than earned it!!
I wanted trains to help with my big modular build, but GOOD LAAAWD they're intimidating!!! So much so that I just downloaded one and put it in my save file!! After this and Part 1, I'm more confident that I can manage it on my own and make it much more efficient for what I have built already. THANK YOU!!
Holy shit this guide is so! Much clearer on how this works. Thank you!
Fantastic video. Clear, informative, funny. Keep it going and good luck
Thank you for this so much! I didnt understand much about trains and this really helped me out, 10/10
Thanks glad you enjoyed the video!
Thank you for that wonderful path explanation... using the visual effects in order like that was a perfect way to relate them and made more sense than anything I've seen on this or factorio ect... just a good explanation ty
The videos helped a lot and are entertaining, keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Thank you is best I can say, this was perfect series
i would like to see some tutorials to build clean intersections for example how do i get a clean ramp-curve below/above my track (foundations required for maximum incline and minimum turning radius)
i manage to build them but it takes a lot of trial and error and in the end they do not look exactly like the one i did 2 days prior :D
Ah yes build tips was something that I wish I put in part 1 but it will be coming in part 3!
Here's a quick tip though:
Using foundations as a grid, the shortest 90 degree turn that you can make is on a 3x3 grid in an L-shape. Make sure when doing this, that your rails are centered on the foundations.
Place a starter rail segment centered at the very edge of the foundation, leading up to the 3x3 grid first.
Then place down your corner rail segment second, dragging it to the edge of the grid on the opposite side of the starter segment.
That's all there is to it! You now have a nice crisp 90 degree turn and from there you can continue to build off of it!
The 3x3 grid corner can be a bit quirky. You MUST place down a starter segment first, then your corner segment, and lastly an end segment. If you try to build the corner segment last by placing it in between a starter and an end segment, then the game will bug out and refuse to do it.
To make larger turns, the idea is the same and they won't be as troublesome as the 3x3 turn.
In terms of incorporating height into your turns, then for the 3x3 90 degree turn, I've found that stacking TWO 4m foundations on top of eachother seems to be the rough limit.
On that last foundation on your grid where you want your turn to end, simply stack two 4m foundations above or below it and you'll be able to place your corner rail segment down, making a nice sharp turn on a crisp incline.
I hope I was able to explain that properly, if not then railing down rails will be apart of the next and final video!
I wrote up some rail-placement tips in a couple of blog posts early last year, with pictures. I mostly did it so I'd have handy reminders on how to keep rail lines clean and neat in my own builds, but if they come in handy, great: greyduck.net/journal/3908 and the addendum post greyduck.net/journal/3924
@@ToasterGamingYT thank you :)
@@KarelPKerezman thank you ill take a look
Hey Toaster!
I've been watching your two Satisfactory Train Tutorials now and I really like them! It's good to follow and the amount of puns and humor is just perfect for me!
I'm really looking forward to seeing more of your Satisfactory content.
Best train guide I've watched & I've watched them all, amazing job! I look forward to more!
There is a way to simplify your training network significantly. If you build a second line above the first one (9 meters apart). This way you would not have a complex intersections anymore. Either splits or joins but never crossing another line.
Woohoo! I press thumbs up, it goes from 1.9k to 2k!
That was such a good guide! thank you so much.
Really great guide, thanks for making it and going into such depth to explain the nuances. Super helpful!
Thank you, that's very generous and much appreciated! I'm glad you enjoyed the guide!
One of my first co-op games, we did Bauxite from the Red Bamboo site down to the Crater Lakes and the delivery station was at the bottom of a long ramp. First time we saw the automated train just STOP at the station after approaching at considerable speed, we burst out laughing for several solid minutes. Physics? Who needs it! (Certainly not the game that lets concrete slabs hover in the air indefinitely...)
Definitely a sight to see when you witness it happen for the first time! We technically have the equivalent of a black hole acting as a backpack for our inventory, so yeah, physics who needs em!
Could you use an "intermittant" train station to bypass the shortest route rule for a push-pull network? You would have to set it up at the right spot, which could be annoying, but it might work.
Essentially a dummy station to make a push-pull system get out of the way of itself.
Very clear, detailed and informative guide on train networks, and entertaining too. Good work!
One correction for 23:28 though: Building bypass lines on a push-pull rail system is entirely possible if you make each side of the bypass one-way only. Then trains going in the opposite directions will always navigate down opposite sides of the bypass and avoid each other.
Visual (B for block signal, P for path signal):
Note: You CAN do more than 2 trains by building multiple bypasses along the push-pull rail, but you're probably just better off with a closed loop or double-rail system at that point.
You are the first to prove me wrong, and as such have claimed the bounty! Thanks for pointing that out, you're absolutely correct, I'll point that out quickly in the next video
Dam 6 hours late for the bounty.
My entire network is push pull and I have 30 trains running on it.
Though 80% of it is a double line push pull to increase throughput rather than using bypasses.
really good stuff again Toaster thanks for a really well put together source of information. take care nice channel
Now thats a guide! Well done :)
I love satisfactory, but I absolutely hate trains and often end up giving up and making a new world once I reach the point where they become necessary.
I love your guide and feel much better about creating these rail systems. But my main issue that I dont ever see people make videos about is how to actually set up the train stations and manage the trains themselves.
If I have a complex factory that requires a ton of different inputs or produces many outputs. I don't know how to set it up. Does every train freight need to deliver the same item? How do you keep track of the order of the trains for each station? And how do you sort them out of the train and make it understandable?
You mentioned some of the basics about it in the first video. But I would love if your part 3 or another video could go more in depth about this part that is what gives me the most headaches.
Maybe you could run through different examples or ways people set up these schedules? Can you set up a each input/output individually? Set up a central processing hub to sort and process? Have have mixed inputs/outputs? How do fluids affect the process?
Thanks again, love your video and edits!
I totally get what you're saying!
After update 5, trains became super technical and, sadly, they are the most inefficient and frustrating way to transport resources around. Nothing will ever beat conveyers being dragged out along crazy distances of your map for resource transportation, but trains are super cool when you get your network up and running!
Part 3 will definitely touch on some of the things that you mentioned, but it may not be in the depth that youre looking for. However once I finish part 3, I have been considering doing an advanced users guide as well which would cover many of those things that you mentioned, with examples included.
Glad you enjoyed these videos and I hope that some of things that come up in part 3 can help you out in the mean time!
awsome series
I loved that line "eh I'll come back to it later. These are great videos! It's almost like zero punctuation had a love affair with Satisfactory and made these videos were made. If you don't watch zp you should give it a look. Great tips, advice and hilarious. I would love to see a video on how you make your intersections, the more 3 dimensional ones. I have loads of flat intersections, but always struggled with layered ones.
I used to watch zero punctuation all the time, he definitely does hilarious reviews! Building tips coming up in part 3!
What an underrated Guide *plong* Guide Counter: 8
Thanks a lot mate, nice edits, nice puns, great information!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the guide!
*plong* Guide Counter: 9
@@ToasterGamingYT Alas, could you guide me *plonk* 10 and tell me: can I UNLOAD and LOAD in one train station (unload alclad, load sulfur) or do I have to make two stations?
@@pinkyandbrain123 you can load and unload at a single station! You just need to use two separate freight cats and two separate freight platofrms. Set each freight platform to load and unload respectively and it will work no problem
@@ToasterGamingYT See, I dont get the "one station, two platforms"
I have a station and two platforms attached. I have two trains going to this station. One to unload two cars of Alclad, one with two cars to pick up sulfur. to combine this in one station-assembly-complex is not possible, is it? Thanks for your patience!
@@pinkyandbrain123 I see what you're saying! Unfortunately you can't load and unload at the same freight platform.
It's still possible to do what you want to do at a single train station, but in your case you'll have to extend out your train station include 4 freight platforms total.
Then, as an example, set the first two freight platforms to load and fill them with Sulfur only. Set the last two freight platforms to unload and have them unload your alclad sheets. The train carrying your alclad sheets will also have to be 4 freight cars long, with the last two cars carrying your alclad sheets for this to work.
Automated trains being able to instantly stop is just to allow simple signal designs without repercussions due to inertia. If two trains were approaching an intersection that was properly signaled, but the signals were too close to the intersection, two trains could end up barreling through and colliding even if one was trying to stop. I assume it would lead to a lot of player confusion when trains seem to "randomly" crash even when set up "correctly".
To alleviate this issue, path signals would need to be placed in a chain (i.e. chain signals) approaching the intersection: one near the intersection as the final stopping/waiting point, and one much farther back on the approach to that final signal as a "hey, this is where you need to stop slowing down if the path signal at the intersection says no bueno." This would in turn require the player to have a good understanding of the train's inertia, momentum and breaking potential to know just how far back the initial chain signal would need to be.
It would be more realistic (probably a great mod concept if one doesn't exist already) but way too finicky and in-depth for the average player, who just wants choo choo go fast.
TL;DR: It's a gameplay first, physics second decision.
Good stuff. Thanks for the help.
While ultimately the goal of language is communication, and what you meant was completely clear, I will point out that what you call a “train line” in the video has an actual name IRL: either a “consist” or just a “train.” The engine or locomotive on it own is the engine or locomotive, and would only properly be called a “train” by itself if no cars are attached to it. Further the term “train line” can be a bit confusing because “line” can mean several things related to the track the trains run on: “line,” “service” or “route” are used for the set of track a train traverses over the course of following its timetable, and “line,” can be used for a set of rails operated as a single distinct section of a network or a small isolated network, like the “main line” or the “southern loop line” or the “spire coast oil line.” And finally, what you’re calling a “Push-Pull” network, while an accurate descriptor, would normally be called a “double-headed train” or “double-headed service.” IRL these are only used for longer trains that need to both push and pull, as shorter ones can just run in reverse like the player can, but since autonomous trains can’t do that in Satisfactory, it’s perfectly understandable to conflate the two. Again, this is still an excellent guide, and I don’t want to gatekeep, just would be nice to keep in mind for the future.
Fantastic guides.
Excellent video guide
The path required by a train when approaching a path signal is assessed by that path signal when the train passes the preceeding block signal. That's why trains slow down when approaching a path signal where the preceding block signal is close to it. Because the path hasn't yet been assessed, the path signal is set to STOP, so the train pre-empts that and slows down. To prevent this, place the preceding block signal some distance from the path signal. Then the path will be assessed well in advance and the train won't have to slow.
Very nice!!! Not only funny and full of tips its also very well explained. Makes me almost sad I can't subscribe to your channel - already did with your first part ;-) Keep it up!
Much appreciated, thanks for the sub!
Thanks for this tutorial
Awesome guide! Very well laid out and explained well.
Legit. Great guide!
"Eh... I'll come back to it later" is my Satisfactory motto
Well done sir
Thank you!
I don't know if I am just seeing things, but it seems that the priority seems to be based on velocity as well.
Constructive criticism... Don't put signals on TWO-WAY rails, not even on the switches at either end, and they will work fine for shared push-pull setups. Treat the whole two-way (and the on/off ramps connected to it) like a 'simple intersection', Path Signal -before- and Block Signal -After-. The only time it's okay to put signals on a two-way rail is when it's 'private' (one train assigned to it) and there's no chance for a deadlock. :) Great video otherwise! Clear and comprehensive! =)
Nice work!
Thanks! :)
Hi Toaster, Thanks for the informative videos on Satisfactory. Please continue making them. Question, can you have a train with multiple locos on both ends facing back 2 back and have it work? Hopefully I explained that correctly. Thanks.
Great question! Yes you can, the two outermost locomotives on a push-pull system must be facing outwards for it to work. Any other locomotives in the middle of the train can be in any order and face any direction and it will still work!
Same applies to the closed loop trains, only the lead locomotive needs to be facing forwards, any other locomotives that you add to the train line can be in any order and face any direction and it will work no problem!
9:37 I suppose the naive implementation of blocks is to flag a block as occupied immediately when a train enters it, and stop all trains that approach an occupied block, and leave it at that. My guess (how I'd do it) is that the high calculability of trains' paths is leveraged, checking blocks for incoming trains, and at which speeds, and give the train that will pass through the block first, or something, right of way. Still doesn't explain why the slow train at 9:37 entered the block at all though.
what if you made the bypass intersection from the push pull method an equal length intersection where either path is the same distance would that make it work correctly?
Excellent guide! One mistake though - driving on the the left is the right side of the road/rail - wait what ??!
I apologize, what I meant to say is that the right side of the road is the CORRECT side to drive on 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
10:52 i think its to try and mitigate a race condition with block signals
The part about trains only taking the shortest possible path is incorrect. I have bypasses on my stations, trains can either go straight through the station or around it, and they correctly choose the bypass if they aren't stopping there and another train is occupying the station. And what you say doesn't work at 23:26 definitely works. You have too many signals in your example. Make each side of the split track one way. Each fork in the track should have 4 signals around it. From the point of view of a train entering the fork from the single track side of it, you should see a path on the right before the fork, a block on the right track after the fork, a block facing away from you on the left before the fork, and a path facing away from you on the left track after the fork. I built an example like yours (but with the signals right) and put *3* trains on it, it's running fine.
Came for the tips, stayed for the edit.