yellow rock? lol idk! i just am civil and direct bc i have to have some form of communication, that one day will not be tied legal wise. i am learning a lot of skills but getting out was the first step to growing in any form of this patience, and acceptance to work with people who truly don’t want to work with you and never let a moment slip they find to try to distract everything you’re building or have built. strict routines helped me once i got in my new environment. it’s always easy to be civil in a text. calls are not necessary unless it’s preferable or emergency
Who said there was a trauma? How do you know why they are that way? They could have had perfect parents, a perfect life and just been a narcissist SOB. You honestly don't know "why".
I always thought I could love somebody into good mental health. You can't. The game changer is when I accepted that I cannot love somebody into having good mental health.
Sexlessness. Sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t acknowledge you are a sexual being hurts so much. I was in a sexless marriage for years. Being a woman with a high libido, I felt inadequate. Worst I feel invisible. The man who was “supposed” to want me, just didn’t. We talked about it many times, more than I can recall now. It was always me. I wanted too much - once a week was too much for him. I didn’t initiate - he was always complaining of headaches, stomaches, always stressed, always tired. I was too sexual - when being subtle doesn’t work, what is next? Explicitly saying I wanted sex. Oh but then it was not appropriate. Conversations would end up with him saying he didn’t feel desired or I made him feel emasculated because he didn’t want sex as much as I did. Yeah, it was always me. I could never win. While we were dating we would have a decent amount of sex, it was good. The first huge red flag was not having sex in our honeymoon - which I ignored. It rapidly decrease to once a week, then every other week. Years gone by it was months in between, by the time we divorced it was over a year with no sex. I cried myself to sleep more times that I can count. I didn’t understand what was wrong with me. Was I that undesirable? Was I repulsive? After those conversations, I just stopped trying, initiating, mentioning sex. We were still loving - holding hands, hugging, kissing - but sex was off the table. He then cheated on me. Swore he had sex only 4 times in a year (or more) long affair. It didn’t matter. For years my self worth was damaged by him, years of low self esteem, years of feeling less of a woman, the marriage that was more than over, waiting in hospice, really ended. Funny how things are, I asked him for a divorce, he manipulated me into staying, next day his infidelity came to light. I was out as soon as I could. Best thing of my life. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when he or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator Digitalinvestigate@gmail. com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
sounds just like what i'm experiencing with my husband. He's not cheating that i know of, but he refuses to engage in any mutually pleasurable sexual contact, and the pain and confusion are just too much. I'm done. I don't care if he cheats now, I just want out. I'm not indifferent yet, I'm still grieving, but I hope to get to indifference.
I have been no contact for over 22 years. It wasn't until 3.5 years ago I crossed paths with that narcissist. There was no feeling or emotion when I saw this person as I was completely detached and indifferent. It was exhilarating and liberating. I knew in that very moment that every decision and sacrifice I had made for myself (as well as going no contact) was the best gift I could give myself. Cheers!
22 years? OMG! M ex is every king of narcissist there is all bottled up in one! He just left to go to Chicago for a friend to work . Said he'll be back, but where I stay , the people don't want him to come back, he knows he not welcomed there but he works his way in with the elderly lady I work for, I live here , he won't get out she has to get an eviction notice to get him out! Says he ain't going no where, follow wherever I go, and I've been asked to leave there. Well I'm standing my ground. But does it really take 22 or more years to recoup?? L. J.
YOU Got To Be Patience IT'S Like A Addiction! You Got To Gradual Go Through Withdrawal. Like A Cut Or Sore Daily Heal With Tender Care Medicine. Healing Kind Words Of Encouragement Constantly.
You have to work through the pain and emotions, the long, hard way. Sorry. It took me more than a decade, but you have the advantage of knowing what it is. You’ll get there much faster! Don’t give up, because victory is worth the price.
My narcissistic abuser texted me yesterday after no contact for almost 3 years. I was beyond indifferent. I was dismissive! It was a great feeling after the 6 years he put me through. I felt nothing . I love myself now & I’m well.
@@trinap.8904 They always find a way around the block. Mine actually walked into my place after I ignored her, blocked her and tried to move on. Talk about a risky hoover!
Took me over a year and a half to FINALLY feel what you’re describing! To not care either way about my ex. I don’t care if he’s thriving or crumbling. It’s just not my story, any longer. Your videos have championed my progress. Self love and understanding has gotten me to this spot. And I am so very thankful. Life is good!
Crumbling more like it, we're thriving! I'm glad you're over him and 18 months isn't so bad, long, you gotta go through... Many never achieve it I'm sure! You got your freedom, checking into what he's up to isn't being free!
I went through a grieving period before I became indifferent. Mentally giving up on a person was like loosing and burying them. They call me heartless because I'm indifferent, but I know better. Reaching this mindset gave me freedom to live with less anxiety. I love you're down to earth blog.
The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference. Adopting indifference means you just have no more love for a narcissist. This is the most effective way to deal with these kind of people. Thank you for explaining this essential coping mechanism to us.
I grew up in a family that had multiple narcissistic abusers and enablers. For the past several years, I've been doing a lot of reading about other people's experiences with narcissistic abuse and watching videos on the subject. I notice that the more I understand how the minds of narcissists work, and how dysfunctional families operate, the more indifferent I'm becoming towards my abusers. Narcissists all seem to read from the same script, and a lot of the time, they say things that don't make any sense. I no longer take their false accusations as personally as I used to. If I hadn't been around, the narcissists would have only been saying horrible things to someone else.
1cpascal_I agree that once you know what sort of person you are dealing with any argument they make or opinion they have falls apart. I always reaffirm to myself that they are mentally ill so what they say and think doesn’t matter.
Thank you for that. Every time I was emotional abused, I just tried harder. Therapist says thats my 'pleaser' attachment wound developed from a long marriage to a narcissist (attachment wound vacillator who ruminates on the negative, always a victim)
I'm a survivor of dysfunctional family abuse, scapegoated by the elders of that family. After 8 yrs of no-contact mode with them, I've reached the stage of being indifferent to them. I feel validated. Thanks.
One thing that helped me is to realize that there are people out there who are going to hate you and mistreat you no matter what you do, or how good of a person you are, or what you achieve. So why even care what they think?
Only a couple of months full No Contact for me. It takes that long (so many years) to no longer feel some anger and the other emotions? LOL. I can't wait for the indifference to hurry up and sink in :)
Indifference came quietly and gloriously. It was life saving! Enjoy the peace, focus on your passions and clean yourself up, your environment. You are safe!
What helped me most was understanding that the opposite of love is NOT hate. The opposite of love is indifference. Getting there is like finding home again. At least that is how it is for me. It took a lot of time because I'm a slow learner sometimes, but the struggle to learn it was worth it.
@@ezequielmca4385 I know what you mean…I used to have nightmares that I murdered him and then I would reflect on that and think ‘Wow, these feelings of hatred are truly affecting me’!! It was so hard for me to cope with all of it. My brother gave me an analogy to use to help me overcome my emotions: Think of your feelings towards him like a light switch….turn the light OFF. I had to visualize an actual light switch whenever I had to be in his presence. Guess what…it worked!!! No Light/No Energy :) Just nothing. That was years ago, I’ve moved on with my life and I’m happy to say that I’m totally indifferent to him. Very liberating indeed.
Love and hate are 2 sides of the same coin. Either, means you are still emotionally involved with or affected by them. Indifference means they no longer have power to affect you emotionally, which is a really good place to be.
The feeling of hurting, disappointment, betrayal and deceit will never actually end. I have learned that these feelings will come at anytime and sometimes when you least expect it and learning to cope with it whenever it visits. Thank you Dr Ramani for enlightening and helping us, God will continue to reward you.
IB Kay- perfectly said. I’m in that place too right now…disappointment, betrayal and sadness. So grateful to Dr. Ramani and this community of survivors. Knowing I’m not alone has helped me keep going and be more gentle with myself.
@@JudeScott007 God does exist. Narcissists exist because Satan exists. The Bible states that Satan is the father of lies. The spirits of lying, deceit, and manipulation come from Satan.
I was once told by a therapist that there is love, hate, and somewhere in the middle of those two emotions lies indifference. Indifference is the absence of either love or hate, and is an attitude of not caring one way or the other, which is exactly how you described it here.
Your videos are akin to a real loving parent taking a child's hand and leading them out of the darkness. Thank you so much for validating our experiences, it truly makes a world of difference💖
@@lindawise5546 In a sense: any good, empathic therapist will make a priority of teaching a patient whose childhood was inadequate to toxic to learn how to reparent themself, and will often model the kindness and caring of a nurturing parent in the course of so doing.
Whereby narcissists are indifferent toward others so they can do the damage they do and feel zero remorse, when WE finally learn to feel indifferent toward them it’s about gaining back the inner peace that we deserve. It’s about having the FREEDOM to put our energy to better use. It's about living our lives as we were meant to live.
Very well said. The freedoms felt after learning to focus on my journey, not theirs, is the indifference that illuminates my soul. Life is good. It is no longer my loss.....it is theirs! Soaring to new heights.
I chose to forgive in spite of the fact no apologies or ownership was ever made. Genuine forgiveness is freedom which allowed me to become indifferent. Forgiveness is like kryptonite.
Can’t help but hear my wise mother say; “abusers teach you how to hate them”! I don’t hate my x but I do not have empathy anymore. He exhausted my empathy.
I was married for 30 years to one of THEM. Divorced for nearly 4 and he's still doing all he can to make my life miserable. It's been a real struggle but I truly can finally say I am indifferent to him. What he does or says just doesn't matter to me anymore. So hang in there gang . . . . you can finally get there.
Same here- married to the narco -(28yrs)- The demon(sorry-that is what it was.The narco triangulated my son against me- It is painful to go through the process- but time- does slowly Heal -but what really helped me was -faith/ prayers/ determination-educating myself I numbed myself with reading about this disorder& its dark destructive force-now after 5yrs of non stop work -that not only me to get out of this- but now how can I help others.-Everybodys healing- towards Indifference is unique.
I am out 2 years from a 22 year marriage to a narcissist. He was my first and I’ve known him for 28 years. It’s so painful to think of the wasted years. He also triangulated one of my children against me so their is a lot of loss. I know that indifference is the way and I am working hard to fully get there. It feels like living and recovering from this is my life’s work.
I've been divorced from mine for 28 yrs. He's vindictive & also still tries to make things difficult. Distance, lots of distance and no contact helps greatly! Also, indifference.
Indifference doesn't mean the seaweed doesn't bother me but finally realizing that no matter what I do, I can't remove it so I better just swim away from it Thank you Dr. Ramini☮💜🛐
After narcisstic abuse my whole life I have finally gotten to that point of detachment and indifference. Which is surprising for me always being the one to "wear my heart on my sleeve." You really do have to protect yourself because when a narcissist is in your life they are so sneaky, they completely drain you before you even know what happened. I never thought I'd get to this point, but indifference will come quietly, but effectively. And when it does it is a relief!!!
I became indifferent after 14 years of trying to understand, trying to help him, trying to figure him out, etc. Finally, I realized that it just didn't matter anymore why he was the way he was. The only thing that I could afford to care about was making it stop. I really didn't care anymore about WHY he was so horrible. 100% of my energy had gone into making him happy, 100% of his energy went into making him happy. He still wasn't happy. Not my problem anymore, and I realized I could do this dance till I die, or I could leave. Guess what? Leaving is easier than THINKING about leaving.
So right. You can’t fix the narcissist, you can’t help the narcissist, all you are to them is a source of narcissistic supply. And so yeah it really doesn’t matter why they are the way they are. If you can get out, do it.
Every time I feel weak, I listen to one of your videos and I feel validated and strong again. Thank you for the work that you do. You have saved me so many times, Dr. Ramani. I didn't want to like and comment on your videos for a long time because I was afraid to be caught out watching them one day but, it seems like I might be getting a little bit closer to that indifference now. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being my rock.
This is exactly what I needed! Just relapsed and have been stuck in euphoric recall/rumination 24/7. Knowing it’s possible to heal and remove them from your thoughts is so reassuring and comforting to hear. Thank you!
I realised about twenty-five years ago that I didn’t care whether or not my narcissistic mother was dead or alive. I just didn’t. When she died, I was still indifferent. Four years later, I’m still indifferent. I just don’t care. This has been the best thing that’s ever happened to me.
After being trauma bonded to/ruminating about two specific narcs off and on for 4 yrs, and watching narcissism videos for a year and a half...I AM ready to break the rumination chains and never think about them again 😅😆🙏🏿🙌🏾
Yes Cren and Alice, ruminating is a problem, one I have intermittently. I’m about 2 months new to these vids, channels. The problem I have multitudes in is that I keep “friending” the same narcissistic type people! It’s like their brains are the same but the faces and bodies are different. I got rid of one, only to make a “friend” of a similar. Long story. But after recognizing narcissism, getting rid of the narcissist “friend” I identified, I ruminate over past relationships. The one “friend” I met seemed so great at first. Then during a full out expensive party I threw, ruined other party goers pleasure by making the people view a stupid website. Then came the ranting, “I’m related to the true royalty of England, you think you have… I have better…, oh guess what I did, just look at that crap in the toilet!” I still can’t believe it. I just want to not put myself out there again. I’m sure almost every spouse or friend of a narcissist has gone through similar events being ruined as there are so many comments about narcissistic family members making peoples lives miserable, especially around the holidays. So many have broken the chains. I need to stop making the chains.
@@mqua4610 I can totally feel you and relate. My guess, like with many people who visit Dr. Ramani’s TH-cam videos, is that you’re an empath. There’s a really good TH-cam channel that’s called, “empaths exposed”. It’s definitely worth looking into as well. We attract narcissists like bees to wildflowers. My heart goes out to you. Good self-care ensures we will win in the end.🙏🏽
The feeling of indifference is amazing. I was terrified of family get togethers because of my mother's bad behavior. Now I totally stand back & enjoy her crazy antics. Walking away & enjoying not feeling guilty is so life altering. I worked hard in therapy to get to this point. It has been a amazing healing journey.
BINGO! I decided to approach this as if I'm just a character in a play. And I can now view the situation from 'afar' and be amused by it. Great comment. I actually have been caught smiling, and a little laugh too now and again while being yelled at. Totally remove yourself mentally from the situation to observe the ridiculousness, the humor of it. It's funny but very sad at the same time.
I enjoy it now cause my mother and her siblings have a little bit of it in all of them. The complete silence when eating at holiday dinners and lack of interaction was so confusing as a kid. Thank goodness there was a kids and adults table to eat at.
That’s exactly where I want to get!!! I’m 30 and only recently realized my mom is a covert narcissist. Getting over it is one thing, but I’m terrified she’ll try to hurt or ruin my relationship with my extended family!!! I hope I can get there one day. Thanks for sharing that you did!! 💪
Nearly there... following for 2 years. Healing and moving. Pray for all those on their journey. Keep strong and God willing you will make it. I agree its hard but eventually you find you. Bless you Dr ramani.
Thank you for praying. I do that as well. I also pray for those I don’t know who are on this journey. And it is a journey. Every little aspect of our lives is affected by a Narcissistic parent. God Bless
@@lloyannehurd I pray too, the Holy Spirit heals. I even pray for the narcs even though it is emotionally hard to do so. I'd rather smack them than pray for them lol. But seriously they probably need prayer and maybe nobody else prays for them...
@@stephanie3848 This is a hard thing to do. We are asked to pray for them but this doesn’t mean we have to stay around them or accept their behaviour in any way. Doing good to them can mean using tough love. Mathew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Sometimes I want to reach out to him, because I loved him. I care about him. Instead, I watch your videos to remind me of how he treated me.. I am so blessed to have stumbled across such videos, as I had never heard the word Narcissist. All the behaviors I witnessed over 22 years finally had understanding for me. It's helped in my healing process in a miraculous way. Thank you so much for helping me.
Accepting the truth of what narcisists are with humility that we have no right to change anybody can lead us to indifference and it is a beautiful place to arrive at. Thank you dr Ramani❤ God bless you❤
@@trinialexander8036 this is exactly my position. i’ve also been feeling on edge in my daily life because the monster inside of them is getting bigger. it’s unsettling
Agree 💯. I don't think it's possible to be completely indifferent while in the relationship or if it impacts loved ones, like children. But I also think there are degrees of indifference. And it's also ok to have good days and bad days, when indifference fluctuates; some days its just harder to be indifferent.
@@KAT-dg6el how do you do it when you have to bring your kids to him and stay in contact. I wasnt married with my ex. We do have a child together , I get disgussed when I have to meet him its so hard because how he still try’s to controle me in a sort of way and , wants to see whats up in my life , cuz he dont have nothing in how life. he is a miserable monster. He still do everything to make me mad , so he can feel good for him self and enjoy that it worked to make me hurt.
I am contemplating divorce (married 15 years) as I just realized the problem we have had all this time was generational NPD. It’s clear now as I watch these videos and others like them that he has these traits and the children and I have been abused in various degrees. I am petrified to leave and petrified to stay because I don’t know which one would prevent further damage to the children. My worst fear is that one or more of them will turn out to be NPD. How do I protect and nurture them, they are still so young? I am so afraid that if we divorce he will triangulate them and turn them against me.
@@nottherealmccoy9862 my heart goes out to you. How are you doing two months later? My advice is go "grey rock" with him, keep educating yourself on NPD, and plan for your independence because he will most likely discard you after you "grey rock" him. Best wishes to you and your children. There are so many excellent people on u-tube educating us on how to deal with narcists.
Responding to the narcisscist with indifference does a couple of things: 1) It gives me peace. Complete peace...because I am no longer engaging at all with the sick behavior. If I just let the cruel words fall around me and stay calm the narcisscist completely loses their power. 2) Remaining indifferent shrinks the narcisscist. When they make their critical, cruel remarks and I am relaxed and calm...WOW...they almost, literally, SHRINK in front of me!! Their negative remarks, tone and hurtful motives just fall down dead around them. My silence has put a gigantic spotlight on their sickness and sadism. I...and the world...can now see the narcissist and his/her true nature fully revealed: he/she is nothing more than a powerless, ineffective, tantrum throwing brat. When I am occasionally required to spend time around this sick puppy, I calmly regard them as a comical little gnat buzzing around me trying to get a reaction. When I simply regard them as a temporary inconvenience...as a meaningless speck of atoms buzzing around me...they quickly become less than zero. ...and that's exactly where they belong...
Liz Francis, omg this is one of the funniest and most spot on TH-cam comments ever!!! 🤣 Thank you so much! I laughed non-stop for at least 3 mins 😄 So happy for you that you managed to get to this point 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I'm getting there too!
One of the things I love about the comments section is the diversity of the commenters. It seems like you help people of all ages, races, and genders. Seeing how many folks from all over the world are hurt by narcissists shows that it transcends any particular culture or country. Most importantly, you provide hope and healing for all of us.
I salute for this comment …..this has helped me for the past 3years….it actually takes years for this entire journey and awakening….all of this confirmation of our experiences is such a blessing .
Indifference is an absolute gift when it comes to dealing with and/or moving on from narcissistic people. It is the ultimate boundary you can have with them.
I think I’m closing the gap to indifference. No contact has brought me so much growth and peace. The only thing I care about is maintaining zero contact. I have no desire to talk to him, see him, think about him, etc. The energy I was giving to him has been redirected back to myself. I’m going to keep growing and healing.
Your emotions will still feel their affects but you won't react to it any longer. I finally got to that point . I didn't need nor want to engage his antics. Didn't want him to touch me. He touched my shoulder one day and without intention I automatically cringed not overly but my shoulder automatically moved away. That was my eye opener that I was truly indifferent to him. I was no longer feeding him. This tank dried up. Dr. Ramani you've provided me the tools and understanding for the clarity I needed thru my current journey but also my childhood my narcissistic mother and my own choices as a result. Knowledge is healing and power. I'm 65 yrs old just shows your never too old to learn and become healthy. Thank you Dr. Ramani
It has taken me 60 years to achieve the indifference you speak of, Dr. Ramani. I appreciate your lectures; they are supportive & validating. Thank you!
For me indifference = detachment. I used to agonize over everything my mom said and did because it hurt me so much. Until 3 years ago we had a particularly toxic interaction on Christmas Day that intitally wrecked me but ultimately was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It was literally like someone flipped a switch and from that moment on I just didn't care anymore.
@@kathypaquette9116 3 years in a different country,, underweight, lost hair, anxiety and all crazy kinds of illinesses..is what i got from my mother.. I am still wanting to be okay living a life she will not be involved in..and just be happy
You too? ... I don't know anything about you, of course, but I can certainly understand exactly what you're saying ... I suffered 62 & 63 yrs. of parental abuse bc both were ultra narcs ... But when she got dementia & he got cancer, I realosed that I just couldn't work up very much of a head of steam for either one of them. I just didn't care.
@@tarafoley6030 my mom passed away from lung cancer last year and I didn't even attend the funeral. One of my sisters, who is a nurse, cared for her until her death and I let her and my other two siblings split my portion of the inheritance because 1) I didn't want anything from her and 2) I felt like they deserved it for taking on that burden in my absence. Even though they all turned against me when I went no contact with our mother, 2 years before she was diagnosed. None of them ever even called me to tell me she was sick. Everyone can judge me all they want but they don't know or care about my side of the story and what that woman put me through. To this day I don't regret it because I did what I had to do to protect myself and she was a nightmare to deal with throughout her illness so I'm just grateful I didn't have to deal with it. At some point you have to say enough is enough and take whatever action is necessary to survive and protect your children from suffering the same abuse. Prayers that you find peace and healing!
@schoolofhardknocks I completely understand. Although, I cared for my mother until her mind completely ceased to function. This was for My self, alone. I treaeted her with unwavering kindness, patience, etc ... with cmplete detatchment. To demonstrate just how we should all treat those we're supposed to love. Her shame @ being treated so well, after the utter Hell she put me through, not to mention the permanent physical damage was very satisfying. It proved to me, ultimately, that: 1) It was All entirely deliberate & 2) She was a craven coward, jealous of my spirit. ... Sorry Cow!
My goal in healing was to regard my ex with as little emotion as he had had for me during our relationship. Gratefully, I think I have accomplished this. It only took 15 years.
“Indifference is a Narcissists Kryptonite” No matter what you have to do to get there get there… Live in the knowledge these people have little to no success with any future relationships … The only way they might have success in a relationship is if the partner has some very low self esteem to begin with but even then they will see through the Narcissists act it just may take longer…I feel for them 100% and I wish I sincerely could change their situation or save them from the pain…💯🇦🇺❤️
The indifference is such a freeing feeling. After my narc's most recent hoover attempt, I just rolled my eyes and thought "this is boring" and blocked. I don't wish him ill, I just don't care and have no interest in anything he's doing. Up until that point, during sporadic periods of no contact, I would analyze him and feel anxiety about what he might be up to and I'm finally out of that rabbit hole.
Indifference towards a narcissist requires time and energy and is achievable, even after years of trauma. Being indifferent towards the narcissist is a side project and happens as a result of focusing on your recovery, which is fully under your control.
Indifference is not forgiveness 🙏 forgiveness doesn't mean u forget 🙏 forgetting doesn't mean you won't get triggered by similar behaviour shown by someone els 💔🙏 healing is not easy but not impossible 🙏 I'm so grateful for ur channel ❤️ since I can't afford active therapy ur videos haave helped me heal ❤️
This Lady is an angel!♥️🇮🇹🇬🇧 The problem is that, in some cases, they have ruined your life.. And on top of hating them we hate ourselves! It’s what I feel deep inside… Giving anything to this creatures destroys the goodness and the security and your finances. Thank you Lady ♥️🇮🇹🇬🇧
I had to ask for help becoming indifferent; through prayer I was blessed with indifference towards an incredibly narcissistic husband ( I still live with him for financial reasons, I’m older and at this point it works for me).It is such a blessing to be free of him and any impact he had on me. When I am asked about being indifferent I describe it as not caring about what the people down the street are having for dinner. It just plain doesn’t matter.
I’ve been with my narcissistic husband for almost 15 years and I’m learning to become indifferent. It’s so incredibly hard but there are a few things I just can’t let go of or forgive. I’m still with him for financial reasons and our children and I am curious how you got to this point! Can you give me any advice????
It definitely takes a long time to become indifferent towards your narcissist, because usually it's someone that you have loved. If it's a parent, there's already an emotional bond that was their innately. If it is a spouse it's hard to become indifferent, because the fact they became your spouse means there were some good times or good memories there. It really takes a lot of self compassion and time to get to the point of indifference or emotional neutrality.
True. Imagine if you have a child that later becomes a narcissist due to the toxic parent. Can one really become indifferent towards a child; not sure that it's possible for some.
And married for 30 years with two daughters and a grandchild, working together with saving big cats for almost 20 years, where do I go to, to go no contact or become indifferent, as his new girlfriend will also work with him now..only choice will be to leave the work I lived for😟
My daughter is a malignant narcissist. It's classic. I was raised by a narcissist, married one, and my baby daughter has grown into one. My heart is broken 💔. Im extremely concerned about the children she has. She has withheld contact. Im not able to see the grandkids and she has been smearing me to them. I pray for them 🙏 and am learning more about narcissist people.
What is your role in this Sandra? I don't mean to sound insensitive, genuinely curious. I don't believe in pure victimhood... We all play a role somehow..of course some of us less malignant than others
@@Babka113 i know I'm responsible for a part of this, although it's not all my fault. I stayed in an unhealthy marriage for too long. I was just very ignorant about the narcissistic spectrum. Now I'm understanding more about the damage it does. My other son and daughter are healthier than the baby daughter, 37
The youngest one was more spoiled than the other two, and grew up more"entitled". We were better off financially when the last one was born. And I spent less time dealing with her emotional development. She is very spiteful and wants to retaliate against perceived wrongs done to her.
Yeah, you could easily be speaking about me. Probably my mum sees me as narcissistic for not soothing her ego, for not wanting closeness. I tried no contact, because it's really hard to reach indiference when your parents are the abusers. They don't really accept no contact easily. I think that indifference is the healing but it's hard. I can tell you that as the child, you do have expectations in the relationship. Expectations in the sense of maturity and honesty. Maybe she just wants to understand some events. And coming from a family with at least one narcissist, then she has her frustration. She as Dr. Ramani says, feels robbed of her potential and not only that. If she gets stuck on that, then yes she may become narcisistic in tendencies. I use the term narcissist with care if it hasn't been diagnosed. But if she just gave up asking or retaliating, build her walls and turned her back to look at her now family instead of bringing the whole unsolved mess of her childhood into the mix, then I don't find it narcissistic. I find it survival. I don't want to ofend. I don't know your story, so I looked at what you wrote through the lenses of my experience
My opinion is that if the narc dies, it's not proper to be happy at the event of their death but I think that it is acceptable to feel relieved that the source of the abuse does not exist any longer. I think there is a difference between the 2.
For me, it allowed the grief to be felt that I had buried for years since I had left him. His death was related to habits I tried to help him stop, but he wouldn't. But yes there was relief, and grief for the promise that never happened due to their narcissism.
Not appropriate to be happy at the funeral, but when you are alone, well that's another thing :) If you want to be happy, then imho you should let yourself do so. Why not? These people don't give a flying leap about your pain, who should you miss them?
@@engleharddinglefester4285 to be honest , I can understand that as well and I won't comdemn anyone if they actually do that if they feel to. It is every person's right to act out whichever way they wish. You did make me chuckle a bit when you said when you are alone, that is another thing though . I can't lie on that.
I was astonished at having no feeling finding out ny mom jad died (did not find out for year + later...narc sister no contact too). I didn't even cry. I tried, thinking I should, but couldnt. I felt guilty for proclaiming outloud "I'm free". Not now.
I don't know if this appropriate but our culture of today's world is commonly place the grief by someone ''s death. Is only the separation of the beloved one that hurts and legitimate grief. That's all. We all die in the end (even if I don't believe in death)) here on Earth.
I'm dealing with this at work right now! I recently saw the true colors of a coworker. In the past, I was emotionally invested. Now, he is getting grey rock from me. He noticed it and sent me a hoover email yesterday. I did not respond. If i was not aware of their manipulative tactics, I probably would have fallen for it! Thanks for educating us, Dr Ramani!
I think the difference between being indifferent toward them and being indifferent to the impact of the things they do to you is: By being indifferent to them, you are going grey rock. Not letting yourself be rattled by every little predictable thing that they do or the stunts they pull. You can’t be indifferent to the impact it has on you because that is just letting it slide and forgiving them over and over which is enabling them. It’s almost like being indifferent to them emotionally but not indifferent to them with your logical mind. That way you won’t put up with outright abuse and you know when to draw the line completely and go know contact. We’re not here to be doormats. Not sure if this makes sense but this is how I understand it.
I have saved this response as it helps me understand the difference. It also helped me understand my fear of moving towards numbness. I do not want to feel numb whenever I am around them as it is a pretense and putting on of a mask or worse, being complicit in their wickedness.
I forgave him and tried at least to be friends and you are right, they keep messing up, and inevitably will behave badly. They try but they don't change💔 I tried really hard to give him many chances at friendship after the breakup because I care and I'm very empathic. Sadly, I finally gave up and I just don't care anymore after the last very hurtful insult. I tried and told him I wish him the very best. I finally gave up completely, feel at peace and that's priceless, I did my best. I agree, self compassion is crucial. Thank you for this Dr.Ramani, it is so validating and helpful, you have played a crucial role in my healing journey💖💖💖
Thank you for this comment. I’m going through the exact same thing with my narcissistic ex. (And my covert narc mom who I am currently living with and taking care of, so I can’t go no contact.😩) I am also an empath so I keep forgiving my ex, because I felt “sorry for him”. But slowly and surely I’m getting to the point of indifference. I admit, I’m not there yet. It’s been 2 1/2 years since we’ve been together and coronavirus happening was a good excuse for me to keep contact with him and be his friend. But, like you said they inevitably start behaving badly. And then I go right back to square one of being hurt and drained of life-force energy. Hopefully in a few months I’ll be able to report back that I’ve cut all ties and I’m doing better than ever in my life. Dr.Ramani is the best. Bless your heart.
@@CgColleenGorman Thank you, I am glad you find the comment helpful. I understand and it is not easy, it takes time, it is a process. I finally cut all contact 100% after 13 months of breakup, and it feels good. It is easier for me because it was a long distance relationship, however healing has taken lots of work. I understand it may be more difficult for others, specially when the narcissist is a family member or a coparent. I wish you all the very best in the healing process, and hope things get better for you soon. Thank you so much for sharing your story 💜
I hope you realize how many lives you are literally saving with you videos. Not everyone in the world has access to counseling or money to afford it, but your free videos on TH-cam are enough for someone to survive in an abusive relationship.. I wanted to thank you and may God Bless You
I am the scapegoat of my family and after 58 years, now that have gotten indiferent, I eventually know what they have being feeling for my since ever. Amazing discovery!
It took me 6 years to become indifferent after our 7 year relationship. For 4 years I would have an extreme physical reaction every time I saw him, all the thoughts and feelings would come rushing back, it was as though I was still living it. Now I finally feel nothing. Bliss.
Very good , indifference works , my strategy is to "focus on myself "while around narcissistic family members, this way I can stay indifferent to them. Empathy is a virtue , we just need to be selective about who deserves it.
You become indifferent to the narcissis once you educate yourself, and another thing what helped me out is change up a little bit on your routine, but what really helped me out is when I don't give a sht period my give a dam is busted 👍 Dr RAMANI and survivors and thrivers 🙏
Dr Ramani is a HUGE blessing! I spent 42 years of my life not being able to explain the narc abuse I grew up in. What I love about her is she explains the pain and abuse to me so I can understand what's going on in my mind. Explaining narc abuse is so hard especially when you're in it. Thank you Dr Ramani!!!
I think indifference towards the narcissist means that you no longer care about his or her attempts to manipulate you. I think indifference towards the impact the narc had on you in the past would mean neglecting your own needs and depriving yourself of the opportunity to heal, kinda like gaslighting yourself?
My world has new meaning as my narcissists husband had an affair followed by tears of “I’m sorry I betrayed you.” In fact, I felt indifferent to this reveal, almost elated, as if I FINALLY saw an open door. He is hoovering and love bombing right now in our asexual relationship, but outside of the intoxicating effect, when he’s not around, I’m not “feeling it.” More indifference. I am unable to be completely no contact due to trauma bonding, but with the support of my friends and this online community-I’ve got this!! Thanks so much for the validation on this video!!!
Thankfully I'm now totally indifferent with every past narcissist because I finally understand what narcissism is and how I let them adversely impact me. I took my power back from each of them and I don't care what they do in life moving forward. I now focus on what I want in life and keep a cautious eye out and avoid new narcissists who might come my way. I'm not going to play their game. Don't become a chew toy for their entertainment and pleasure. They are sick individuals who have no love or empathy for others. Move on and focus on the good things in your ife. Don't look back because you haven't lost anything worth keeping and they don't care at all about you unless it benefits them and them alone
I blocked my sister's phone number after 70 years of abuse. I asked to be removed from a family group text. I was able to disconnect a year ago after I lost my 98-year-old mother. I know now she was an enabler, but she was as unaware as I was as to what was happening. Her intentions were honorable and I have completely forgiven her. I'm not completely indifferent yet, but I'm getting there. Because of the tools i have learned, I may even go to the large family Christmas party this year knowing my sister will be there. This video is excellent, as usual. I am so grateful. I'm living my best life at 71. Thank you, Dr. Ramini.
@@sandrawamerdam2219 I wish I had used an attorney to communicate. "Your number has been blocked, but you can leave a message at _________ etc. It's all so awful. Bit I'm really close to indifferent.
@@sandrawamerdam2219 I can’t imagine the pain you’re dealing with everyday being associated w/ him by a business. My brother is 3 years older than me, started scapegoating me, smear campaigns, covert narcissist stuff before I turned 4. My 1st memories are trauma bond memories and caused the most messed up cognitive dissonance where love is concerned. Even now when I’m finally happy, I can’t date because of my addiction to toxic relationships. The only feelings I remember as a child were confusion, guilt for making him angry all the time (even though the problem wasn’t mine) and anger at myself for not being able to open my mouth that seemed to be krazy glued shut. It wasn’t for another 36 years that I finally started to see myself for the emotionally impressive person I am. All it took was almost 4 decades of abuse, 4 extended psychiatric hospital stays, 2 toxic marriages, one ending in divorce and the last being widowed after he overdosed in front of me and our 4 year old for me to finally get trauma therapy. I didn’t see my son for almost a year while in treatment. I’m sad at the 40 years I hated myself, the self medicating i did from the emotional pain & complex ptsd, the trauma bond that caused me to put him on this high pedestal while he was twisting my mind using his malicious plots to try to get me to commit suicide. His covert triangulation & smear campaign plots were so perfect by the time I was 13, both our parents were convinced I was an insane troublemaker, the black sheep of the family and he was the victim/hero (he loved swooping in last minute to demonize me & save our mom after secretly starting the fights in the 1st place). I should hate him. I should be bitter but indifference is much better. I’m too stubborn to let him ruin anymore of my life with those negative emotions. I get sad occasionally when something reminds me of the abuse but it took me 7 years to process the anger and bitterness that built up over all those years and it was not easy. Indifference is such a hard healing stage to get to but it makes life much better. I’m happy even though I’m a reclusive cat lady that lives, works from home and homeschools my autistic 11 year old. I don’t think I’ll ever want to be around people again but that’s not surprising considering I am pretty much a toxic abusive personality magnet - relationships, friends, you name it. I’ve been no contact for 4 years and after 7 years of building trust back with my parents, I was finally able to tell them what he did to me and be believed. I am the only one of us that stuck around to care for them in their old age, though so there’s that too. He pops in their life a couple times a year but I’ve been very clear with my no contact emotional boundaries and they’re more than respecting them. They even added some protections in their will, making me the executor and he’s only allowed to communicate with me through the attorney. Otherwise, he would definitely financially manipulate and abuse me out of whatever the inheritance is. Not many people understand the devastating terror of sibling narcissistic abuse. Most people talk about narcissist parents or lovers but the siblings are truly terrifying, who you’re around more than your parents or anyone else, often not having a chance to develop a healthy sense of self. My brother only being 3 years older gave him access to every single person I came in contact with from the time I was born and he didn’t waste time with neighborhood & school wide smear campaigns turning me into the annoying weirdo that the only people that wanted to be around me were his flying monkey’s that pretended to be my best friends so they could mess with, humiliate and abuse me. Of course I thought they were my best friends even while they were cruel to me and of course I thought it was my fault. I cry for that Selfless, intuitively empathic girl born 3 years after her entitled, endlessly selfish, covert narcissist brother that hated her guts from the moment she started breathing. I cry for her more than I should but it’s a lot less these days so 🫰
One of the lines from the movie, The Joy Luck Club, stayed with me for years. A mother tells her daughter " Its ok if you lose him - you're the one that will be found". 💝
Indifference to me means that I don’t give a crap what happens to the narcissist either way. Where I may have more compassion and empathy to a former school friend who I wasn’t close to, but knew of, than I would for the narcissist. I am working on that diligently. I’ve pretty much mastered the gray rock technique and am leaning towards ambiguity. Thank you so much for posting this video!
Dr. Ramani, thank you. Comparing an unsafe friendship to self harm is so spot on! You have a talent for putting words to abstract concepts! Thank you again
Couldn't agree more...Dr Ramani is absolutely amazing at putting abstruct concepts into words, a simple sentence can encompass feelings I've had for years...she's a God sent lifesaver!
Dr Ramani is the best, she is the Rumination-Slayer!!! (a vampire will suck your blood, but a narcissist will suck your mind and soul). 6 months later this video has a deeper effect on me... 😀
Thank you Dear Dr Ramini, for being here to educate the younger generations about narcissism;- and teach them how to recognize, leave, and recover from narcissistic abuse. ❤️❤️❤️. Your words of the experience are so validating and healing🥰🥰🥰, and your lessons so greatly earned🥰
@Jane Doe I want to thank you for your great, very accurate and relatable feedback and gratefulness to Dr. Ramini. Your comment articulated what I wanted to say so well! I agree with you full heartedly!
Thank God I began listening to you while still in the relationship. I began to understand what was happening & that it WAS NOT my fault! First emotional detaching & then finially physically moving out! It was very difficult after 14 years to be on my own, but I did it! This last video helped so much but close family & friends do not understand the after affects in me!
@@dawnsmith3331 your family and friends would understand a lot better if they went thru what YOU went thru . I certainly understand the devastation and destruction that comes with a narc. relationship - the aftermath can take YEARS to process . The damage done can affect ALL aspects of your life . We will never be who we were before our hellish experience .... Other people need to be gentle with that . I admire your courage , Ms. Dawn ! ✌️❤️
Yes, and most important for them to trust their gut feelings for any Red Flags. Your body is protecting you. WALK AWAY first time , save your Life. Young people need to learn, recognize and Avoid this Danger.
This helped me immensely. My ex- & father to my sons, abused me on every level. My sons would like me to accept him & attend family functions. I feel terror & nausea @ the sound of his voice. No forgiveness is possible for this lying Jekyl & Hyde even after 30 years. TY for validating this.
Though I'm sorry to hear that you actually feel more anxiety after walking away from a narcissist (s), I want to thank you for admitting that. Even though I'm proud of myself for cutting ties with numerous narcissistic people in my life and am more aware of the red flags, I do acknowledge that I still have a heightened sense of anxiety, shame, feeling like an "imposter," etc., But hearing you talk about it brings me comfort to accept that it's a natural and common thing, and to not let it overwhelm me.
Having the ability to not be affected by them . At all. That’s indifference. Took me 18 years. Yep 18. I was married for 30. Took 5 years to get the divorce. My mom is 90. She’s why I’m listening to this channel. Why is this information not common knowledge? Thank you. Dr. R!
You describe an absolutely *vital* distinction between indifference to the abuser and emotional engagement within the self. I needed to hear that today! Thank you again, Dr Ramani, for your help.
Just crank up that song by Gloria Gaynor "I Will Survive" when you start to feel like you're not indifferent enough to truly let go of the relationship and begin to enjoy your freedom and love the life you live without all the negativity the narcissist always brings to you & others. Worked like a charm for me. The more indifferent you are, the more healthier and happier you will feel.
Dr. Ramani, you spoke the truth. Once you can see the pattern of the narcissist's behavior towards you over time, which is the bigger picture, you'll have no problem getting off that train. Self-preservation is the key. Good luck to all who have attained indifference!!!💖💖💖
Dr. Ramani knows what she is talking about. I have listened to her for a year now. She has helped me through my whole narcissistic relationship with my husband who I am no longer with and she still helps me to this thank you dr. Ramani!!!
I’m definitely not there and not sure when I will be. Some days I feel more indifferent and some days I don’t. I wish I had more tools to help me in this process. After 26 years of this person, it’s going to be a long recovery. It’s especially hard that during this divorce (made difficult and even more abusive by the narcissist) becoming indifferent is a struggle since both of us live under the same roof. Once I am away and free, our daughter and I can concentrate more on healing. Right now it’s just day to day survival.
I was in the same boat but was able to convince my narcissistic spouse to sell the house and split the proceeds. I think it was his love of drama and chaos and his hubris/belief he could hoover me back, but once we were separated I could begin the healing process (to a degree, given how the divorce process meant his mask was OFF). Hang in there. One foot in front of the other. It gets so much better. Keep your eyes on the prize -- your freedom. ☮️
Well, this is amazing. I felt guilty for months regarding to leaving therapy because this psychologist insisted in "you have to forgive your mother" and I told her I wouldn't. She treated me condescendingly, saying "you will, you will" and it pissed me off. Later on, she sent me to a psychiatric hospital, apparently I had certain disbalance and needed meds, as consequence of years of abuse. The story goes on, but now I feel validated. Thank you, Dr. Ramani.
It's normal and not any wrong for not forgiving anyone who hurts you that deeply. You only need to love and respect yourself enough to move on and live a real life without them. Don't let the nars control your feelings nor yr body. Enjoy the little things in life that make you feel calm and happy. Compare that moments to the time you suffered with the nars. You will never come back.
IF Anything Should Forgive SELF...... Nobody Teach That A LOT TIME People Carry Shame For Being Weak And Not Educated. Have Assure SELF With LOVING WORDS Of Encouragement. A NARC Will Have Hating Yourself To The Point Of Suicide.
Thank you so much for this, I’m very indifferent to my mother who abused me, and it gets frustrating when I bring up loneliness and needing a parent. People go on to mention forgiveness 🙄 or reaching out to her and it shows me that people just don’t get it. Just because forgiveness is a goal for them it doesn’t mean that it is for everyone else, it’s also not a standard to aspire to. Indifference feels good to me because I get to work on and love on myself, while not harbouring feelings towards my mother, I hope more people adopt this as part of their journey ❤️🌺
I'm no where close to indifference, but I don't cry seeing our pictures anymore. I'm proud of myself for that. I don't want to carry the hate I feel towards him, it's way too heavy, but it's so valid it's hard to let it go. I'm trying to find me again, but I don't know how.
It is definitely a sick kind of grief when they die. My first husband passed away very young. He was incredibly violent. I could not help but cry over the person he could have been had he himself not been abused, but it was mixed with a heavy relief because he had been stalking me and my kids for years.
I'm not indifferent, I still love them & when I hear their miserable choices I fall into crying jags, pitying their chosen misery. The narcissists from my past were deeply traumatized ppl. I'm still bonded, yet. I'm growing indifferently about losing them, but its taking its time. It's relieving to hear your pov, Dr R.♡
I made a mistake in a moment of feeling really hurt and vulnerable I actually tried to call out the behavior - ugh big mistake. Everyone was offended and hurt by me. Reflecting back on it, even bringing it up in a non emotionally charged scenario, discussing the hurtful behavior wouldn’t have led anywhere. It just gave me more shit to deal with and fires to put out. Working on this indifference with my therapist. Thank you Dr Ramani for your videos!
I had fantastic success calling out my BPD/narc Mom but I had no other choice. She was setting me up and I had to defend myself, and calling her out to other people was part of that process. I also had cameras installed, put trackers on things and basically backed her into a corner where she couldn't do much without being caught. My journey is not typical. No judgments intended, BTW.
the great thing about this channel and what you talk about is that it reminds me of the abuse and how it keep effecting my life even after months and years of undergoing that abuse. usually, when I talk about it, people tend to brush it off and say "oh that happened a while ago, why are you still bringing it up?", but the truth is: you'll find yourself dealing with those unwanted emotions for a while, and just because it's not happening anymore, doesn't mean the effect of it is gone; however you still can be indifferent in the midst of it all, and you still can feel all of those emotions while not giving a damn about the narcissist or what happens to them. thank you dr. Ramani for the great and helpful content!
You have to be indifferent. Otherwise you're still losing time and energy to that toxic person.
Grey rock!
yellow rock? lol idk! i just am civil and direct bc i have to have some form of communication, that one day will not be tied legal wise. i am learning a lot of skills but getting out was the first step to growing in any form of this patience, and acceptance to work with people who truly don’t want to work with you and never let a moment slip they find to try to distract everything you’re building or have built. strict routines helped me once i got in my new environment. it’s always easy to be civil in a text. calls are not necessary unless it’s preferable or emergency
Indifference towards the narcissist means that I have accepted who/what they are and that I cannot change them and have no interest in them.
AMEN!
I agree
Yup🎯✅
"You can't out love the trauma that made somebody a narcissist." When I heard this quote, it helped a lot with my road to healing.
I heard that one from Mental Healness in an interview with what's her name on Dr c's channel maybe?
Who said there was a trauma? How do you know why they are that way? They could have had perfect parents, a perfect life and just been a narcissist SOB. You honestly don't know "why".
Out love the trauma that made somebody a narcissist? What does that mean? Abstruse sentence, can one talk a little more simply?
I still do not understand the meaning of "out love" Does it mean to love too much or stop loving? Can you be synthetic in explaining?
I always thought I could love somebody into good mental health.
You can't.
The game changer is when I accepted that I cannot love somebody into having good mental health.
Sexlessness. Sharing a bed with someone who doesn’t acknowledge you are a sexual being hurts so much. I was in a sexless marriage for years. Being a woman with a high libido, I felt inadequate. Worst I feel invisible. The man who was “supposed” to want me, just didn’t. We talked about it many times, more than I can recall now. It was always me. I wanted too much - once a week was too much for him. I didn’t initiate - he was always complaining of headaches, stomaches, always stressed, always tired. I was too sexual - when being subtle doesn’t work, what is next? Explicitly saying I wanted sex. Oh but then it was not appropriate. Conversations would end up with him saying he didn’t feel desired or I made him feel emasculated because he didn’t want sex as much as I did. Yeah, it was always me. I could never win. While we were dating we would have a decent amount of sex, it was good. The first huge red flag was not having sex in our honeymoon - which I ignored. It rapidly decrease to once a week, then every other week. Years gone by it was months in between, by the time we divorced it was over a year with no sex. I cried myself to sleep more times that I can count. I didn’t understand what was wrong with me. Was I that undesirable? Was I repulsive? After those conversations, I just stopped trying, initiating, mentioning sex. We were still loving - holding hands, hugging, kissing - but sex was off the table. He then cheated on me. Swore he had sex only 4 times in a year (or more) long affair. It didn’t matter. For years my self worth was damaged by him, years of low self esteem, years of feeling less of a woman, the marriage that was more than over, waiting in hospice, really ended. Funny how things are, I asked him for a divorce, he manipulated me into staying, next day his infidelity came to light. I was out as soon as I could. Best thing of my life. Additionally, That feeling when your partner cheated and you don't have the courage to leave him / her so you just death with the pain and live everyday asking questions about your worth. This pain is different from the cheating one_living and seeing him everywhere anticipating when he or she do it again. The best thing is to hire a private investigator Digitalinvestigate@gmail. com to help you spy on their cellphone remotely just like he did for me...
sounds just like what i'm experiencing with my husband. He's not cheating that i know of, but he refuses to engage in any mutually pleasurable sexual contact, and the pain and confusion are just too much. I'm done. I don't care if he cheats now, I just want out. I'm not indifferent yet, I'm still grieving, but I hope to get to indifference.
I have been no contact for over 22 years. It wasn't until 3.5 years ago I crossed paths with that narcissist. There was no feeling or emotion when I saw this person as I was completely detached and indifferent. It was exhilarating and liberating. I knew in that very moment that every decision and sacrifice I had made for myself (as well as going no contact) was the best gift I could give myself. Cheers!
22 years? OMG! M ex is every king of narcissist there is all bottled up in one! He just left to go to Chicago for a friend to work . Said he'll be back, but where I stay , the people don't want him to come back, he knows he not welcomed there but he works his way in with the elderly lady I work for, I live here , he won't get out she has to get an eviction notice to get him out! Says he ain't going no where, follow wherever I go, and I've been asked to leave there. Well I'm standing my ground. But does it really take 22 or more years to recoup?? L. J.
How?? Can you give me any tips on how to become indifferent? 8 yrs together, 4 days No Contact.
YOU Got To Be Patience IT'S Like A Addiction! You Got To Gradual Go Through Withdrawal. Like A Cut Or Sore Daily Heal With Tender Care Medicine. Healing Kind Words Of Encouragement Constantly.
You have to work through the pain and emotions, the long, hard way. Sorry. It took me more than a decade, but you have the advantage of knowing what it is. You’ll get there much faster! Don’t give up, because victory is worth the price.
My narcissistic abuser texted me yesterday after no contact for almost 3 years. I was beyond indifferent. I was dismissive! It was a great feeling after the 6 years he put me through. I felt nothing . I love myself now & I’m well.
You are very strong. That’s great👏👏👏👏 as a survivors we can control our feeling towards the abuser.
Good for you!! 😎
Have u considered blocking the narc? Avoid temptation.
I wonder what he wanted? Seeing if there was a chance! Nae chance pal!
@@trinap.8904 They always find a way around the block. Mine actually walked into my place after I ignored her, blocked her and tried to move on. Talk about a risky hoover!
Took me over a year and a half to FINALLY feel what you’re describing! To not care either way about my ex. I don’t care if he’s thriving or crumbling. It’s just not my story, any longer. Your videos have championed my progress. Self love and understanding has gotten me to this spot. And I am so very thankful. Life is good!
Same here, exactly, even the year and a half part.
I love how you said, "thriving or crumbling" - I feel the exact same way about my narcissistic sister.
Nice
Crumbling more like it, we're thriving! I'm glad you're over him and 18 months isn't so bad, long, you gotta go through... Many never achieve it I'm sure! You got your freedom, checking into what he's up to isn't being free!
Awesome!
The opposite of love is not hate. It's indifference. And when you finally get to this place, letting go becomes so much easier.
I went through a grieving period before I became indifferent. Mentally giving up on a person was like loosing and burying them. They call me heartless because I'm indifferent, but I know better. Reaching this mindset gave me freedom to live with less anxiety. I love you're down to earth blog.
Amen ❤
Thank you for that.
The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference.
Adopting indifference means you just have no more love for a narcissist.
This is the most effective way to deal with these kind of people.
Thank you for explaining this essential coping mechanism to us.
That happened to me!
Indifference is what worked for me. As long as I kept reacting ,I was still 'in the game'.
That's a word I like "Indifference" since it equals Freedom.
Ñp
Yes! 🎉
It means survival.
Yes! 🎊🎊🎊
I grew up in a family that had multiple narcissistic abusers and enablers. For the past several years, I've been doing a lot of reading about other people's experiences with narcissistic abuse and watching videos on the subject. I notice that the more I understand how the minds of narcissists work, and how dysfunctional families operate, the more indifferent I'm becoming towards my abusers. Narcissists all seem to read from the same script, and a lot of the time, they say things that don't make any sense. I no longer take their false accusations as personally as I used to. If I hadn't been around, the narcissists would have only been saying horrible things to someone else.
Good on you mate. We got this.
Brilliant way to think of these rubbish people! Yes if it wasn’t us it would be someone else! Wishing everyone in this community the best!
+
1cpascal_I agree that once you know what sort of person you are dealing with any argument they make or opinion they have falls apart.
I always reaffirm to myself that they are mentally ill so what they say and think doesn’t matter.
Thank you for that. Every time I was emotional abused, I just tried harder. Therapist says thats my 'pleaser' attachment wound developed from a long marriage to a narcissist (attachment wound vacillator who ruminates on the negative, always a victim)
I'm a survivor of dysfunctional family abuse, scapegoated by the elders of that family. After 8 yrs of no-contact mode with them, I've reached the stage of being indifferent to them. I feel validated. Thanks.
One thing that helped me is to realize that there are people out there who are going to hate you and mistreat you no matter what you do, or how good of a person you are, or what you achieve. So why even care what they think?
16 years of No contact with my family.
Only a couple of months full No Contact for me. It takes that long (so many years) to no longer feel some anger and the other emotions? LOL. I can't wait for the indifference to hurry up and sink in :)
Indifference feels wonderful! Just continue enjoying your life :)
Indifference came quietly and gloriously. It was life saving! Enjoy the peace, focus on your passions and clean yourself up, your environment. You are safe!
What helped me most was understanding that the opposite of love is NOT hate. The opposite of love is indifference. Getting there is like finding home again. At least that is how it is for me. It took a lot of time because I'm a slow learner sometimes, but the struggle to learn it was worth it.
Same for me. Hate destroys you. Whereas indifference frees you up and just feels so much better.
@@sandrahealy552 It depends on the situation you are. Sometimes hatred can be very empowering and help you to do great things.
@@ezequielmca4385 I know what you mean…I used to have nightmares that I murdered him and then I would reflect on that and think ‘Wow, these feelings of hatred are truly affecting me’!! It was so hard for me to cope with all of it. My brother gave me an analogy to use to help me overcome my emotions: Think of your feelings towards him like a light switch….turn the light OFF. I had to visualize an actual light switch whenever I had to be in his presence. Guess what…it worked!!! No Light/No Energy :) Just nothing. That was years ago, I’ve moved on with my life and I’m happy to say that I’m totally indifferent to him. Very liberating indeed.
I’d say it’s in the middle of the 2
Love and hate are 2 sides of the same coin. Either, means you are still emotionally involved with or affected by them. Indifference means they no longer have power to affect you emotionally, which is a really good place to be.
The feeling of hurting, disappointment, betrayal and deceit will never actually end.
I have learned that these feelings will come at anytime and sometimes when you least expect it and learning to cope with it whenever it visits.
Thank you Dr Ramani for enlightening and helping us, God will continue to reward you.
IB Kay- perfectly said. I’m in that place too right now…disappointment, betrayal and sadness. So grateful to Dr. Ramani and this community of survivors. Knowing I’m not alone has helped me keep going and be more gentle with myself.
So true. Sometimes i get angry and want revenge. Hours later i laugh at those thought. Ive already won. Nothing to prove.
You are so right!👍🌹
If there was a god, there wouldnt be narcs.
@@JudeScott007 God does exist. Narcissists exist because Satan exists.
The Bible states that Satan is the father of lies. The spirits of lying, deceit, and manipulation come from Satan.
Indifference takes time. Could take years and can't be forced. But time has a way of doing it. Just have to trust the process of time.
Thanks for this...
Exactly this. The process is subtle and the chances are that indifference will have settled in without you being aware of it happening.
Time helps. What's the saying, "time heals all wounds"? I don't know if that's true, but the passing of time does seem to lessen the acute pain.
Love this!
Well said
I was once told by a therapist that there is love, hate, and somewhere in the middle of those two emotions lies indifference. Indifference is the absence of either love or hate, and is an attitude of not caring one way or the other, which is exactly how you described it here.
Your videos are akin to a real loving parent taking a child's hand and leading them out of the darkness. Thank you so much for validating our experiences, it truly makes a world of difference💖
She is mothering us.
@@lindawise5546 In a sense: any good, empathic therapist will make a priority of teaching a patient whose childhood was inadequate to toxic to learn how to reparent themself, and will often model the kindness and caring of a nurturing parent in the course of so doing.
Whereby narcissists are indifferent toward others so they can do the damage they do and feel zero remorse, when WE finally learn to feel indifferent toward them it’s about gaining back the inner peace that we deserve. It’s about having the FREEDOM to put our energy to better use. It's about living our lives as we were meant to live.
Very well said. The freedoms felt after learning to focus on my journey, not theirs, is the indifference that illuminates my soul. Life is good. It is no longer my loss.....it is theirs! Soaring to new heights.
I chose to forgive in spite of the fact no apologies or ownership was ever made. Genuine forgiveness is freedom which allowed me to become indifferent. Forgiveness is like kryptonite.
Can’t help but hear my wise mother say; “abusers teach you how to hate them”! I don’t hate my x but I do not have empathy anymore. He exhausted my empathy.
There are loving people out there who deserve and will give back all the love and care we show to others!
Hmm. Inner peace. That's a long way away for me...I only have to see my.mom and I lose the plot lol
I was married for 30 years to one of THEM. Divorced for nearly 4 and he's still doing all he can to make my life miserable. It's been a real struggle but I truly can finally say I am indifferent to him. What he does or says just doesn't matter to me anymore. So hang in there gang . . . . you can finally get there.
Same here- married to the narco -(28yrs)- The demon(sorry-that is what it was.The narco triangulated my son against me- It is painful to go through the process- but time- does slowly Heal -but what really helped me was -faith/ prayers/ determination-educating myself I numbed myself with reading about this disorder& its dark destructive force-now after 5yrs of non stop work -that not only me to get out of this- but now how can I help others.-Everybodys healing- towards Indifference is unique.
I am out 2 years from a 22 year marriage to a narcissist. He was my first and I’ve known him for 28 years. It’s so painful to think of the wasted years. He also triangulated one of my children against me so their is a lot of loss. I know that indifference is the way and I am working hard to fully get there. It feels like living and recovering from this is my life’s work.
I've been divorced from mine for 28 yrs. He's vindictive & also still tries to make things difficult. Distance, lots of distance and no contact helps greatly! Also, indifference.
Indifference doesn't mean the seaweed doesn't bother me but finally realizing that no matter what I do, I can't remove it so I better just swim away from it
Thank you Dr. Ramini☮💜🛐
Perfect analogy
@@SweetGothic16 thank you so much☮💜🛐
How beautiful ❤️
@@headinthesound ty☮💜
Good analogy
After narcisstic abuse my whole life I have finally gotten to that point of detachment and indifference. Which is surprising for me always being the one to "wear my heart on my sleeve." You really do have to protect yourself because when a narcissist is in your life they are so sneaky, they completely drain you before you even know what happened. I never thought I'd get to this point, but indifference will come quietly, but effectively. And when it does it is a relief!!!
The SEAWEED analogy is BRILLIANT! The potential for drowning, the entanglement, the lack of clarity… just fabulous, Dr. Ramani!
I whole heartedly agree!!!
I became indifferent after 14 years of trying to understand, trying to help him, trying to figure him out, etc. Finally, I realized that it just didn't matter anymore why he was the way he was. The only thing that I could afford to care about was making it stop. I really didn't care anymore about WHY he was so horrible. 100% of my energy had gone into making him happy, 100% of his energy went into making him happy. He still wasn't happy. Not my problem anymore, and I realized I could do this dance till I die, or I could leave. Guess what? Leaving is easier than THINKING about leaving.
So right. You can’t fix the narcissist, you can’t help the narcissist, all you are to them is a source of narcissistic supply. And so yeah it really doesn’t matter why they are the way they are. If you can get out, do it.
Every time I feel weak, I listen to one of your videos and I feel validated and strong again. Thank you for the work that you do. You have saved me so many times, Dr. Ramani. I didn't want to like and comment on your videos for a long time because I was afraid to be caught out watching them one day but, it seems like I might be getting a little bit closer to that indifference now. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being my rock.
♥️♥️♥️♥️ I feel the same!
Is cult-like. Yep, Dr R's videos refresh your memory!
I was afraid of being caught listening too
Same. When I’m about to cave, I watch a Dr Ramani vid ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Same here. Amazing what she does to the self esteem of us victims by the narcissist. She validates so much and more
I finally felt indifferent 2 months ago (after over a year of anxiety, flashbacking etc ). I never thought I'd get here. I'm so glad I held on. Go me!
High ten!! That's huge!!!
Yes, high 5 to you✋! I am almost there!💪❤
This is exactly what I needed! Just relapsed and have been stuck in euphoric recall/rumination 24/7. Knowing it’s possible to heal and remove them from your thoughts is so reassuring and comforting to hear. Thank you!
I realised about twenty-five years ago that I didn’t care whether or not my narcissistic mother was dead or alive. I just didn’t. When she died, I was still indifferent. Four years later, I’m still indifferent. I just don’t care. This has been the best thing that’s ever happened to me.
Not Love, not Hate, no reaction, no feeling one way or the other.
After being trauma bonded to/ruminating about two specific narcs off and on for 4 yrs, and watching narcissism videos for a year and a half...I AM ready to break the rumination chains and never think about them again 😅😆🙏🏿🙌🏾
Pray you stay stronger on your journey.
That’s what I struggle with is rumination. Good luck 🍀
@@aliceroberts1980 for you it's real. For IT, it wasn't. I pray you heal soon and find beautiful self again. Inshallah.(God willing) ameen 🙏
Yes Cren and Alice, ruminating is a problem, one I have intermittently. I’m about 2 months new to these vids, channels. The problem I have multitudes in is that I keep “friending” the same narcissistic type people! It’s like their brains are the same but the faces and bodies are different. I got rid of one, only to make a “friend” of a similar. Long story. But after recognizing narcissism, getting rid of the narcissist “friend” I identified, I ruminate over past relationships. The one “friend” I met seemed so great at first. Then during a full out expensive party I threw, ruined other party goers pleasure by making the people view a stupid website. Then came the ranting, “I’m related to the true royalty of England, you think you have… I have better…, oh guess what I did, just look at that crap in the toilet!” I still can’t believe it. I just want to not put myself out there again. I’m sure almost every spouse or friend of a narcissist has gone through similar events being ruined as there are so many comments about narcissistic family members making peoples lives miserable, especially around the holidays. So many have broken the chains. I need to stop making the chains.
@@mqua4610 I can totally feel you and relate. My guess, like with many people who visit Dr. Ramani’s TH-cam videos, is that you’re an empath. There’s a really good TH-cam channel that’s called, “empaths exposed”. It’s definitely worth looking into as well. We attract narcissists like bees to wildflowers. My heart goes out to you. Good self-care ensures we will win in the end.🙏🏽
The feeling of indifference is amazing. I was terrified of family get togethers because of my mother's bad behavior. Now I totally stand back & enjoy her crazy antics. Walking away & enjoying not feeling guilty is so life altering. I worked hard in therapy to get to this point. It has been a amazing healing journey.
BINGO! I decided to approach this as if I'm just a character in a play. And I can now view the situation from 'afar' and be amused by it. Great comment. I actually have been caught smiling, and a little laugh too now and again while being yelled at. Totally remove yourself mentally from the situation to observe the ridiculousness, the humor of it. It's funny but very sad at the same time.
Wow, that's amazing! Congrats :))
I enjoy it now cause my mother and her siblings have a little bit of it in all of them. The complete silence when eating at holiday dinners and lack of interaction was so confusing as a kid. Thank goodness there was a kids and adults table to eat at.
I'm super proud of you for this
That’s exactly where I want to get!!! I’m 30 and only recently realized my mom is a covert narcissist. Getting over it is one thing, but I’m terrified she’ll try to hurt or ruin my relationship with my extended family!!! I hope I can get there one day. Thanks for sharing that you did!! 💪
Nearly there... following for 2 years. Healing and moving. Pray for all those on their journey. Keep strong and God willing you will make it. I agree its hard but eventually you find you. Bless you Dr ramani.
Thank you for praying. I do that as well. I also pray for those I don’t know who are on this journey. And it is a journey. Every little aspect of our lives is affected by a Narcissistic parent. God Bless
@@lloyannehurd I pray too, the Holy Spirit heals. I even pray for the narcs even though it is emotionally hard to do so. I'd rather smack them than pray for them lol. But seriously they probably need prayer and maybe nobody else prays for them...
@@stephanie3848
This is a hard thing to do. We are asked to pray for them but this doesn’t mean we have to stay around them or accept their behaviour in any way. Doing good to them can mean using tough love.
Mathew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Ameen!
That was literally my question, but I haven't sent it 🤣🤣
Sometimes I want to reach out to him, because I loved him. I care about him. Instead, I watch your videos to remind me of how he treated me.. I am so blessed to have stumbled across such videos, as I had never heard the word Narcissist. All the behaviors I witnessed over 22 years finally had understanding for me. It's helped in my healing process in a miraculous way. Thank you so much for helping me.
Accepting the truth of what narcisists are with humility that we have no right to change anybody can lead us to indifference and it is a beautiful place to arrive at. Thank you dr Ramani❤ God bless you❤
Indifference helps when living with a Narcissist too.
You can expect a much quicker cycle because they discard at indifference. It's low supply ...
@@trinialexander8036 I hope you’re ok?
@@trinialexander8036 You haven't done anything but maybe get taken in by someone who's an expert at taking people in.
@@trinialexander8036 this is exactly my position. i’ve also been feeling on edge in my daily life because the monster inside of them is getting bigger. it’s unsettling
Thanks to you, Dr. Ramani, I am becoming indifferent to narcs. They hate that.
I stopped caring about him long before the divorce but it’s hard to completely let go when you have children together.
Agree 💯. I don't think it's possible to be completely indifferent while in the relationship or if it impacts loved ones, like children. But I also think there are degrees of indifference. And it's also ok to have good days and bad days, when indifference fluctuates; some days its just harder to be indifferent.
Oh my gosh yes
@@KAT-dg6el how do you do it when you have to bring your kids to him and stay in contact.
I wasnt married with my ex. We do have a child together , I get disgussed when I have to meet him its so hard because how he still try’s to controle me in a sort of way and , wants to see whats up in my life , cuz he dont have nothing in how life. he is a miserable monster.
He still do everything to make me mad , so he can feel good for him self and enjoy that it worked to make me hurt.
I am contemplating divorce (married 15 years) as I just realized the problem we have had all this time was generational NPD. It’s clear now as I watch these videos and others like them that he has these traits and the children and I have been abused in various degrees.
I am petrified to leave and petrified to stay because I don’t know which one would prevent further damage to the children. My worst fear is that one or more of them will turn out to be NPD. How do I protect and nurture them, they are still so young?
I am so afraid that if we divorce he will triangulate them and turn them against me.
@@nottherealmccoy9862 my heart goes out to you. How are you doing two months later? My advice is go "grey rock" with him, keep educating yourself on NPD, and plan for your independence because he will most likely discard you after you "grey rock" him. Best wishes to you and your children. There are so many excellent people on u-tube educating us on how to deal with narcists.
It causes great injury when you ignore them. Yet, it is liberating, for the survivor!
Responding to the narcisscist with indifference does a couple of things:
1) It gives me peace. Complete peace...because I am no longer engaging at all with the sick behavior. If I just let the cruel words fall around me and stay calm the narcisscist completely loses their power.
2) Remaining indifferent shrinks the narcisscist. When they make their critical, cruel remarks and I am relaxed and calm...WOW...they almost, literally, SHRINK in front of me!! Their negative remarks, tone and hurtful motives just fall down dead around them. My silence has put a gigantic spotlight on their sickness and sadism.
I...and the world...can now see the narcissist and his/her true nature fully revealed: he/she is nothing more than a powerless, ineffective, tantrum throwing brat.
When I am occasionally required to spend time around this sick puppy, I calmly regard them as a comical little gnat buzzing around me trying to get a reaction. When I simply regard them as a temporary inconvenience...as a meaningless speck of atoms buzzing around me...they quickly become less than zero.
...and that's exactly where they belong...
Brilliant comment
yes visualizing these sort of things do help
Meaningless speck of atoms ⚛️😄👏🏼
Liz Francis, omg this is one of the funniest and most spot on TH-cam comments ever!!! 🤣
Thank you so much! I laughed non-stop for at least 3 mins 😄
So happy for you that you managed to get to this point 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I'm getting there too!
Your silence is a beaming spotlight and all their power shrinks you can literally see it happen so amazing and freeing
The hard question I had to ask myself was, “did I love someone I really didn’t trust?” The truth will set you free.
Happens a lot in this world, and all we can do is try to learn from it.
One of the things I love about the comments section is the diversity of the commenters. It seems like you help people of all ages, races, and genders. Seeing how many folks from all over the world are hurt by narcissists shows that it transcends any particular culture or country. Most importantly, you provide hope and healing for all of us.
I salute for this comment …..this has helped me for the past 3years….it actually takes years for this entire journey and awakening….all of this confirmation of our experiences is such a blessing .
2 Timothy 3 v. 1-5
@@kimgordon3695 We are already THERE. God bless you.
Indifference is an absolute gift when it comes to dealing with and/or moving on from narcissistic people. It is the ultimate boundary you can have with them.
I think I’m closing the gap to indifference. No contact has brought me so much growth and peace. The only thing I care about is maintaining zero contact. I have no desire to talk to him, see him, think about him, etc. The energy I was giving to him has been redirected back to myself. I’m going to keep growing and healing.
Your emotions will still feel their affects but you won't react to it any longer. I finally got to that point . I didn't need nor want to engage his antics. Didn't want him to touch me. He touched my shoulder one day and without intention I automatically cringed not overly but my shoulder automatically moved away. That was my eye opener that I was truly indifferent to him. I was no longer feeding him. This tank dried up. Dr. Ramani you've provided me the tools and understanding for the clarity I needed thru my current journey but also my childhood my narcissistic mother and my own choices as a result. Knowledge is healing and power. I'm 65 yrs old just shows your never too old to learn and become healthy. Thank you Dr. Ramani
It has taken me 60 years to achieve the indifference you speak of, Dr. Ramani. I appreciate your lectures; they are supportive & validating. Thank you!
I empathize with you, my friend. You may heal, but you still carry scars
Wondering if you were the one being accused of invalidating the N?
I think understanding is huge for me to get to that point.
For me indifference = detachment. I used to agonize over everything my mom said and did because it hurt me so much. Until 3 years ago we had a particularly toxic interaction on Christmas Day that intitally wrecked me but ultimately was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. It was literally like someone flipped a switch and from that moment on I just didn't care anymore.
Soooo good to hear! My NM just did something 7 wks ago! I am in alot of pain and anxiety right now! Your comment helped me
@@kathypaquette9116 3 years in a different country,, underweight, lost hair, anxiety and all crazy kinds of illinesses..is what i got from my mother.. I am still wanting to be okay living a life she will not be involved in..and just be happy
You too? ... I don't know anything about you, of course, but I can certainly understand exactly what you're saying ...
I suffered 62 & 63 yrs. of parental abuse bc both were ultra narcs ... But when she got dementia & he got cancer, I realosed that I just couldn't work up very much of a head of steam for either one of them. I just didn't care.
@@tarafoley6030 my mom passed away from lung cancer last year and I didn't even attend the funeral. One of my sisters, who is a nurse, cared for her until her death and I let her and my other two siblings split my portion of the inheritance because 1) I didn't want anything from her and 2) I felt like they deserved it for taking on that burden in my absence. Even though they all turned against me when I went no contact with our mother, 2 years before she was diagnosed. None of them ever even called me to tell me she was sick. Everyone can judge me all they want but they don't know or care about my side of the story and what that woman put me through. To this day I don't regret it because I did what I had to do to protect myself and she was a nightmare to deal with throughout her illness so I'm just grateful I didn't have to deal with it. At some point you have to say enough is enough and take whatever action is necessary to survive and protect your children from suffering the same abuse. Prayers that you find peace and healing!
@schoolofhardknocks
I completely understand.
Although, I cared for my mother until her mind completely ceased to function. This was for My self, alone. I treaeted her with unwavering kindness, patience, etc ... with cmplete detatchment. To demonstrate just how we should all treat those we're supposed to love.
Her shame @ being treated so well, after the utter Hell she put me through, not to mention the permanent physical damage was very satisfying. It proved to me, ultimately, that:
1) It was All entirely deliberate &
2) She was a craven coward, jealous of my spirit.
... Sorry Cow!
My goal in healing was to regard my ex with as little emotion as he had had for me during our relationship. Gratefully, I think I have accomplished this. It only took 15 years.
This is an incredibly helpful perspective! Thank You!
“Indifference is a Narcissists Kryptonite” No matter what you have to do to get there get there… Live in the knowledge these people have little to no success with any future relationships … The only way they might have success in a relationship is if the partner has some very low self esteem to begin with but even then they will see through the Narcissists act it just may take longer…I feel for them 100% and I wish I sincerely could change their situation or save them from the pain…💯🇦🇺❤️
The indifference is such a freeing feeling. After my narc's most recent hoover attempt, I just rolled my eyes and thought "this is boring" and blocked. I don't wish him ill, I just don't care and have no interest in anything he's doing. Up until that point, during sporadic periods of no contact, I would analyze him and feel anxiety about what he might be up to and I'm finally out of that rabbit hole.
Indifference towards a narcissist requires time and energy and is achievable, even after years of trauma. Being indifferent towards the narcissist is a side project and happens as a result of focusing on your recovery, which is fully under your control.
Yes!!!!
Indifference is not forgiveness 🙏 forgiveness doesn't mean u forget 🙏 forgetting doesn't mean you won't get triggered by similar behaviour shown by someone els 💔🙏 healing is not easy but not impossible 🙏 I'm so grateful for ur channel ❤️ since I can't afford active therapy ur videos haave helped me heal ❤️
This Lady is an angel!♥️🇮🇹🇬🇧
The problem is that, in some cases, they have ruined your life..
And on top of hating them we hate ourselves!
It’s what I feel deep inside…
Giving anything to this creatures destroys the goodness and the security and your finances.
Thank you Lady ♥️🇮🇹🇬🇧
I had to ask for help becoming indifferent; through prayer I was blessed with indifference towards an incredibly narcissistic husband ( I still live with him for financial reasons, I’m older and at this point it works for me).It is such a blessing to be free of him and any impact he had on me. When I am asked about being indifferent I describe it as not caring about what the people down the street are having for dinner. It just plain doesn’t matter.
I’ve been with my narcissistic husband for almost 15 years and I’m learning to become indifferent. It’s so incredibly hard but there are a few things I just can’t let go of or forgive. I’m still with him for financial reasons and our children and I am curious how you got to this point! Can you give me any advice????
How? How to become indifferent??
It's very new, this no contact.
Have you any tips on becoming indifferent?
Indifference is a journey, but once you get there it is so freeing! Thank you Dr. Ramani for another eloquently insightful video.
It definitely takes a long time to become indifferent towards your narcissist, because usually it's someone that you have loved. If it's a parent, there's already an emotional bond that was their innately. If it is a spouse it's hard to become indifferent, because the fact they became your spouse means there were some good times or good memories there. It really takes a lot of self compassion and time to get to the point of indifference or emotional neutrality.
True. Imagine if you have a child that later becomes a narcissist due to the toxic parent. Can one really become indifferent towards a child; not sure that it's possible for some.
@@javiervidal366 I agree, indifference is not always possible, it depends upon a multitude of context.
I don't agree. What it takes is DECIDING that there are no connections remaining. Absolutely no attachments left.
And married for 30 years with two daughters and a grandchild, working together with saving big cats for almost 20 years, where do I go to, to go no contact or become indifferent, as his new girlfriend will also work with him now..only choice will be to leave the work I lived for😟
@@karenolsen2983 Wow! That is a lot! I'm sorry you're having to cope with such a difficult situation.
My daughter is a malignant narcissist. It's classic. I was raised by a narcissist, married one, and my baby daughter has grown into one. My heart is broken 💔. Im extremely concerned about the children she has. She has withheld contact. Im not able to see the grandkids and she has been smearing me to them. I pray for them 🙏 and am learning more about narcissist people.
I am going through this also. You are not alone.
What is your role in this Sandra? I don't mean to sound insensitive, genuinely curious. I don't believe in pure victimhood... We all play a role somehow..of course some of us less malignant than others
@@Babka113 i know I'm responsible for a part of this, although it's not all my fault. I stayed in an unhealthy marriage for too long. I was just very ignorant about the narcissistic spectrum. Now I'm understanding more about the damage it does. My other son and daughter are healthier than the baby daughter, 37
The youngest one was more spoiled than the other two, and grew up more"entitled". We were better off financially when the last one was born. And I spent less time dealing with her emotional development. She is very spiteful and wants to retaliate against perceived wrongs done to her.
Yeah, you could easily be speaking about me. Probably my mum sees me as narcissistic for not soothing her ego, for not wanting closeness. I tried no contact, because it's really hard to reach indiference when your parents are the abusers. They don't really accept no contact easily.
I think that indifference is the healing but it's hard.
I can tell you that as the child, you do have expectations in the relationship. Expectations in the sense of maturity and honesty.
Maybe she just wants to understand some events.
And coming from a family with at least one narcissist, then she has her frustration. She as Dr. Ramani says, feels robbed of her potential and not only that. If she gets stuck on that, then yes she may become narcisistic in tendencies.
I use the term narcissist with care if it hasn't been diagnosed.
But if she just gave up asking or retaliating, build her walls and turned her back to look at her now family instead of bringing the whole unsolved mess of her childhood into the mix, then I don't find it narcissistic.
I find it survival.
I don't want to ofend. I don't know your story, so I looked at what you wrote through the lenses of my experience
My opinion is that if the narc dies, it's not proper to be happy at the event of their death but I think that it is acceptable to feel relieved that the source of the abuse does not exist any longer. I think there is a difference between the 2.
For me, it allowed the grief to be felt that I had buried for years since I had left him. His death was related to habits I tried to help him stop, but he wouldn't. But yes there was relief, and grief for the promise that never happened due to their narcissism.
Not appropriate to be happy at the funeral, but when you are alone, well that's another thing :) If you want to be happy, then imho you should let yourself do so. Why not? These people don't give a flying leap about your pain, who should you miss them?
@@engleharddinglefester4285 to be honest , I can understand that as well and I won't comdemn anyone if they actually do that if they feel to. It is every person's right to act out whichever way they wish. You did make me chuckle a bit when you said when you are alone, that is another thing though . I can't lie on that.
I was astonished at having no feeling finding out ny mom jad died (did not find out for year + later...narc sister no contact too). I didn't even cry. I tried, thinking I should, but couldnt. I felt guilty for proclaiming outloud "I'm free". Not now.
I don't know if this appropriate but our culture of today's world is commonly place the grief by someone ''s death. Is only the separation of the beloved one that hurts and legitimate grief. That's all. We all die in the end (even if I don't believe in death)) here on Earth.
Yeah. It’s a great feeling to not have that person as an issue anymore.
Margaret Laizure,You look cute,Hope you are not with a narcissist....
slowly you stop hearing their voice criticizing you or you stop thinking about what makes them angry and one day their voice is not there any more
I'm dealing with this at work right now! I recently saw the true colors of a coworker. In the past, I was emotionally invested. Now, he is getting grey rock from me. He noticed it and sent me a hoover email yesterday. I did not respond. If i was not aware of their manipulative tactics, I probably would have fallen for it! Thanks for educating us, Dr Ramani!
I think the difference between being indifferent toward them and being indifferent to the impact of the things they do to you is: By being indifferent to them, you are going grey rock. Not letting yourself be rattled by every little predictable thing that they do or the stunts they pull. You can’t be indifferent to the impact it has on you because that is just letting it slide and forgiving them over and over which is enabling them. It’s almost like being indifferent to them emotionally but not indifferent to them with your logical mind. That way you won’t put up with outright abuse and you know when to draw the line completely and go know contact. We’re not here to be doormats. Not sure if this makes sense but this is how I understand it.
I like your breakdown 😉
I have saved this response as it helps me understand the difference. It also helped me understand my fear of moving towards numbness. I do not want to feel numb whenever I am around them as it is a pretense and putting on of a mask or worse, being complicit in their wickedness.
I forgave him and tried at least to be friends and you are right, they keep messing up, and inevitably will behave badly. They try but they don't change💔 I tried really hard to give him many chances at friendship after the breakup because I care and I'm very empathic. Sadly, I finally gave up and I just don't care anymore after the last very hurtful insult. I tried and told him I wish him the very best. I finally gave up completely, feel at peace and that's priceless, I did my best. I agree, self compassion is crucial. Thank you for this Dr.Ramani, it is so validating and helpful, you have played a crucial role in my healing journey💖💖💖
Thank you for this comment. I’m going through the exact same thing with my narcissistic ex. (And my covert narc mom who I am currently living with and taking care of, so I can’t go no contact.😩) I am also an empath so I keep forgiving my ex, because I felt “sorry for him”. But slowly and surely I’m getting to the point of indifference. I admit, I’m not there yet. It’s been 2 1/2 years since we’ve been together and coronavirus happening was a good excuse for me to keep contact with him and be his friend. But, like you said they inevitably start behaving badly. And then I go right back to square one of being hurt and drained of life-force energy. Hopefully in a few months I’ll be able to report back that I’ve cut all ties and I’m doing better than ever in my life. Dr.Ramani is the best. Bless your heart.
@@CgColleenGorman Thank you, I am glad you find the comment helpful. I understand and it is not easy, it takes time, it is a process. I finally cut all contact 100% after 13 months of breakup, and it feels good. It is easier for me because it was a long distance relationship, however healing has taken lots of work. I understand it may be more difficult for others, specially when the narcissist is a family member or a coparent. I wish you all the very best in the healing process, and hope things get better for you soon. Thank you so much for sharing your story 💜
I hope you realize how many lives you are literally saving with you videos. Not everyone in the world has access to counseling or money to afford it, but your free videos on TH-cam are enough for someone to survive in an abusive relationship.. I wanted to thank you and may God Bless You
I am the scapegoat of my family and after 58 years, now that have gotten indiferent, I eventually know what they have being feeling for my since ever. Amazing discovery!
It took me 6 years to become indifferent after our 7 year relationship. For 4 years I would have an extreme physical reaction every time I saw him, all the thoughts and feelings would come rushing back, it was as though I was still living it. Now I finally feel nothing. Bliss.
Very good , indifference works , my strategy is to "focus on myself "while around narcissistic family members, this way I can stay indifferent to them.
Empathy is a virtue , we just need to be selective about who deserves it.
Thank you for this comment!
Yes...indeed!!
Amen to that.
You become indifferent to the narcissis once you educate yourself, and another thing what helped me out is change up a little bit on your routine, but what really helped me out is when I don't give a sht period my give a dam is busted 👍 Dr RAMANI and survivors and thrivers 🙏
Dr Ramani is a HUGE blessing! I spent 42 years of my life not being able to explain the narc abuse I grew up in. What I love about her is she explains the pain and abuse to me so I can understand what's going on in my mind. Explaining narc abuse is so hard especially when you're in it. Thank you Dr Ramani!!!
Yes 👍🏻 I’ve got to a place of indifference. It’s taken 6 years though. But it has happened and it’s such a relief. It’s freedom at last.
I think indifference towards the narcissist means that you no longer care about his or her attempts to manipulate you.
I think indifference towards the impact the narc had on you in the past would mean neglecting your own needs and depriving yourself of the opportunity to heal, kinda like gaslighting yourself?
My world has new meaning as my narcissists husband had an affair followed by tears of “I’m sorry I betrayed you.” In fact, I felt indifferent to this reveal, almost elated, as if I FINALLY saw an open door. He is hoovering and love bombing right now in our asexual relationship, but outside of the intoxicating effect, when he’s not around, I’m not “feeling it.” More indifference. I am unable to be completely no contact due to trauma bonding, but with the support of my friends and this online community-I’ve got this!! Thanks so much for the validation on this video!!!
KJ Meer,You don't need a narcissist in your life.....
You must walk free.....🙏🙏🙏
Thankfully I'm now totally indifferent with every past narcissist because I finally understand what narcissism is and how I let them adversely impact me. I took my power back from each of them and I don't care what they do in life moving forward. I now focus on what I want in life and keep a cautious eye out and avoid new narcissists who might come my way. I'm not going to play their game. Don't become a chew toy for their entertainment and pleasure. They are sick individuals who have no love or empathy for others. Move on and focus on the good things in your ife. Don't look back because you haven't lost anything worth keeping and they don't care at all about you unless it benefits them and them alone
I blocked my sister's phone number after 70 years of abuse. I asked to be removed from a family group text. I was able to disconnect a year ago after I lost my 98-year-old mother. I know now she was an enabler, but she was as unaware as I was as to what was happening. Her intentions were honorable and I have completely forgiven her. I'm not completely indifferent yet, but I'm getting there. Because of the tools i have learned, I may even go to the large family Christmas party this year knowing my sister will be there. This video is excellent, as usual. I am so grateful. I'm living my best life at 71. Thank you, Dr. Ramini.
I've been considering blocking my brothers number but I am a partner in the inherited family business. im trying to figure out how to get out
@@sandrawamerdam2219 I wish I had used an attorney to communicate.
"Your number has been blocked, but you can leave a message at _________ etc.
It's all so awful. Bit I'm really close to indifferent.
@@sandrawamerdam2219 I can’t imagine the pain you’re dealing with everyday being associated w/ him by a business. My brother is 3 years older than me, started scapegoating me, smear campaigns, covert narcissist stuff before I turned 4. My 1st memories are trauma bond memories and caused the most messed up cognitive dissonance where love is concerned. Even now when I’m finally happy, I can’t date because of my addiction to toxic relationships.
The only feelings I remember as a child were confusion, guilt for making him angry all the time (even though the problem wasn’t mine) and anger at myself for not being able to open my mouth that seemed to be krazy glued shut.
It wasn’t for another 36 years that I finally started to see myself for the emotionally impressive person I am. All it took was almost 4 decades of abuse, 4 extended psychiatric hospital stays, 2 toxic marriages, one ending in divorce and the last being widowed after he overdosed in front of me and our 4 year old for me to finally get trauma therapy. I didn’t see my son for almost a year while in treatment.
I’m sad at the 40 years I hated myself, the self medicating i did from the emotional pain & complex ptsd, the trauma bond that caused me to put him on this high pedestal while he was twisting my mind using his malicious plots to try to get me to commit suicide. His covert triangulation & smear campaign plots were so perfect by the time I was 13, both our parents were convinced I was an insane troublemaker, the black sheep of the family and he was the victim/hero (he loved swooping in last minute to demonize me & save our mom after secretly starting the fights in the 1st place).
I should hate him. I should be bitter but indifference is much better. I’m too stubborn to let him ruin anymore of my life with those negative emotions. I get sad occasionally when something reminds me of the abuse but it took me 7 years to process the anger and bitterness that built up over all those years and it was not easy. Indifference is such a hard healing stage to get to but it makes life much better. I’m happy even though I’m a reclusive cat lady that lives, works from home and homeschools my autistic 11 year old.
I don’t think I’ll ever want to be around people again but that’s not surprising considering I am pretty much a toxic abusive personality magnet - relationships, friends, you name it. I’ve been no contact for 4 years and after 7 years of building trust back with my parents, I was finally able to tell them what he did to me and be believed. I am the only one of us that stuck around to care for them in their old age, though so there’s that too.
He pops in their life a couple times a year but I’ve been very clear with my no contact emotional boundaries and they’re more than respecting them. They even added some protections in their will, making me the executor and he’s only allowed to communicate with me through the attorney. Otherwise, he would definitely financially manipulate and abuse me out of whatever the inheritance is.
Not many people understand the devastating terror of sibling narcissistic abuse. Most people talk about narcissist parents or lovers but the siblings are truly terrifying, who you’re around more than your parents or anyone else, often not having a chance to develop a healthy sense of self.
My brother only being 3 years older gave him access to every single person I came in contact with from the time I was born and he didn’t waste time with neighborhood & school wide smear campaigns turning me into the annoying weirdo that the only people that wanted to be around me were his flying monkey’s that pretended to be my best friends so they could mess with, humiliate and abuse me. Of course I thought they were my best friends even while they were cruel to me and of course I thought it was my fault.
I cry for that Selfless, intuitively empathic girl born 3 years after her entitled, endlessly selfish, covert narcissist brother that hated her guts from the moment she started breathing. I cry for her more than I should but it’s a lot less these days so 🫰
Smile - Charlie Chaplin... music heals
For me, this is the key to the kingdom of happiness. No need to forgive. Just become indifferent, have apathy, no longer think of them at all.
One of the lines from the movie, The Joy Luck Club, stayed with me for years. A mother tells her daughter " Its ok if you lose him - you're the one that will be found". 💝
Indifference to me means that I don’t give a crap what happens to the narcissist either way. Where I may have more compassion and empathy to a former school friend who I wasn’t close to, but knew of, than I would for the narcissist. I am working on that diligently. I’ve pretty much mastered the gray rock technique and am leaning towards ambiguity. Thank you so much for posting this video!
Michele Stone Masterpiece,Hope you are not with a narcissist....
Dr. Ramani, thank you. Comparing an unsafe friendship to self harm is so spot on! You have a talent for putting words to abstract concepts! Thank you again
I realized keeping friendship with toxic people harm myself. So I cut them off and stay no contact with them for 7 years.
Couldn't agree more...Dr Ramani is absolutely amazing at putting abstruct concepts into words, a simple sentence can encompass feelings I've had for years...she's a God sent lifesaver!
Dr Ramani is the best, she is the Rumination-Slayer!!! (a vampire will suck your blood, but a narcissist will suck your mind and soul).
6 months later this video has a deeper effect on me... 😀
I realized today, I have come to indifference. I am unsure when it happened, but it did. Grateful. 💖
Thank you Dear Dr Ramini, for being here to educate the younger generations about narcissism;- and teach them how to recognize, leave, and recover from narcissistic abuse. ❤️❤️❤️.
Your words of the experience are so validating and healing🥰🥰🥰, and your lessons so greatly earned🥰
@Jane Doe I want to thank you for your great, very accurate and relatable feedback and gratefulness to Dr. Ramini. Your comment articulated what I wanted to say so well! I agree with you full heartedly!
@@vegancharlieleeblue thank you for being so kind, and thank you for understanding, too❤️
Thank God I began listening to you while still in the relationship. I began to understand what was happening & that it WAS NOT my fault! First emotional detaching & then finially physically moving out! It was very difficult after 14 years to be on my own, but I did it! This last video helped so much but close family & friends do not understand the after affects in me!
@@dawnsmith3331 your family and friends would understand a lot better if they went thru what YOU went thru . I certainly understand the devastation and destruction that comes with a narc. relationship - the aftermath can take YEARS to process . The damage done can affect ALL aspects of your life . We will never be who we were before our hellish experience .... Other people need to be gentle with that . I admire your courage , Ms. Dawn ! ✌️❤️
Yes, and most important for them to trust their gut feelings for any Red Flags. Your body is protecting you. WALK AWAY first time , save your Life. Young people need to learn, recognize and Avoid this Danger.
My heart smiled when you said people reach indifference often. I cannot wait for that freedom.
This helped me immensely. My ex- & father to my sons, abused me on every level. My sons would like me to accept him & attend family functions. I feel terror & nausea @ the sound of his voice. No forgiveness is possible for this lying Jekyl & Hyde even after 30 years. TY for validating this.
Sounds like he's recruited them as flying monkeys! Beware. Good for you on your boundaries!
Only WE deserve acceptance & forgiveness (from ourselves), NOT THE NARCISSIST PREDATORS WE ESCAPED FROM! ❤️🙏❤️
Though I'm sorry to hear that you actually feel more anxiety after walking away from a narcissist (s), I want to thank you for admitting that. Even though I'm proud of myself for cutting ties with numerous narcissistic people in my life and am more aware of the red flags, I do acknowledge that I still have a heightened sense of anxiety, shame, feeling like an "imposter," etc., But hearing you talk about it brings me comfort to accept that it's a natural and common thing, and to not let it overwhelm me.
It's hard when they are family members and still destroying your life- even when I've gone no contact.
Kat Ellis,You are beautiful,Hope you are not with a narcissist....
Having the ability to not be affected by them . At all. That’s indifference.
Took me 18 years. Yep 18. I was married for 30. Took 5 years to get the divorce.
My mom is 90. She’s why I’m listening to this channel. Why is this information not common knowledge? Thank you. Dr. R!
Feel like Dr. Ramani should be taught in grade school and age-appropriate ways. There are so many signs people need to know.
I didn't understand who is the abuser narc, your husband or your mother?
Both.
You describe an absolutely *vital* distinction between indifference to the abuser and emotional engagement within the self. I needed to hear that today! Thank you again, Dr Ramani, for your help.
Just crank up that song by Gloria Gaynor "I Will Survive" when you start to feel like you're not indifferent enough to truly let go of the relationship and begin to enjoy your freedom and love the life you live without all the negativity the narcissist always brings to you & others. Worked like a charm for me. The more indifferent you are, the more healthier and happier you will feel.
I've been singing "I Will Survive". Brings me courage & strength until I can get back on track.
Queen "We Are The Champions" - I've done my sentence, but committed no crime.
Great one another good one is Fighter Christina Aguilera. Or I’m Still Standing by Elton John.
@@georginagraham411 and another Christina Aguilera favorite “You Are Beautiful” 😍
@@sandrahealy552 great song. We are beautiful in every single way his words won’t bring us down. 🎶🥰😍
Dr. Ramani, you spoke the truth. Once you can see the pattern of the narcissist's behavior towards you over time, which is the bigger picture, you'll have no problem getting off that train. Self-preservation is the key. Good luck to all who have attained indifference!!!💖💖💖
Dr. Ramani knows what she is talking about. I have listened to her for a year now. She has helped me through my whole narcissistic relationship with my husband who I am no longer with and she still helps me to this thank you dr. Ramani!!!
I’m definitely not there and not sure when I will be. Some days I feel more indifferent and some days I don’t. I wish I had more tools to help me in this process. After 26 years of this person, it’s going to be a long recovery. It’s especially hard that during this divorce (made difficult and even more abusive by the narcissist) becoming indifferent is a struggle since both of us live under the same roof. Once I am away and free, our daughter and I can concentrate more on healing. Right now it’s just day to day survival.
You need physical distance from them. It's impossible to achieve separation when you aren't really separate.
I was in the same boat but was able to convince my narcissistic spouse to sell the house and split the proceeds. I think it was his love of drama and chaos and his hubris/belief he could hoover me back, but once we were separated I could begin the healing process (to a degree, given how the divorce process meant his mask was OFF). Hang in there. One foot in front of the other. It gets so much better. Keep your eyes on the prize -- your freedom. ☮️
Yes, keep your eyes on the prize!
Well, this is amazing. I felt guilty for months regarding to leaving therapy because this psychologist insisted in "you have to forgive your mother" and I told her I wouldn't. She treated me condescendingly, saying "you will, you will" and it pissed me off. Later on, she sent me to a psychiatric hospital, apparently I had certain disbalance and needed meds, as consequence of years of abuse. The story goes on, but now I feel validated. Thank you, Dr. Ramani.
It's normal and not any wrong for not forgiving anyone who hurts you that deeply. You only need to love and respect yourself enough to move on and live a real life without them. Don't let the nars control your feelings nor yr body. Enjoy the little things in life that make you feel calm and happy. Compare that moments to the time you suffered with the nars. You will never come back.
Learning to stand up for yourself is part of the healing process. Good for you for telling her no!
Sounds to me like you had a narcissistic therapist with a vested interest in extracting forgiveness from society.
IF Anything Should Forgive SELF...... Nobody Teach That A LOT TIME People Carry Shame For Being Weak And Not Educated. Have Assure SELF With LOVING WORDS Of Encouragement. A NARC Will Have Hating Yourself To The Point Of Suicide.
Thank you so much for this, I’m very indifferent to my mother who abused me, and it gets frustrating when I bring up loneliness and needing a parent. People go on to mention forgiveness 🙄 or reaching out to her and it shows me that people just don’t get it. Just because forgiveness is a goal for them it doesn’t mean that it is for everyone else, it’s also not a standard to aspire to. Indifference feels good to me because I get to work on and love on myself, while not harbouring feelings towards my mother, I hope more people adopt this as part of their journey ❤️🌺
I'm no where close to indifference, but I don't cry seeing our pictures anymore. I'm proud of myself for that.
I don't want to carry the hate I feel towards him, it's way too heavy, but it's so valid it's hard to let it go.
I'm trying to find me again, but I don't know how.
It is definitely a sick kind of grief when they die. My first husband passed away very young. He was incredibly violent. I could not help but cry over the person he could have been had he himself not been abused, but it was mixed with a heavy relief because he had been stalking me and my kids for years.
I'm not indifferent, I still love them & when I hear their miserable choices I fall into crying jags, pitying their chosen misery. The narcissists from my past were deeply traumatized ppl. I'm still bonded, yet. I'm growing indifferently about losing them, but its taking its time.
It's relieving to hear your pov, Dr R.♡
Their chosen misery. Yes, that's what makes it so sad. Only they can change it, and only if they see it, and then, only if they want to change it.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. You'll never know how much you've helped me. Your input has actually saved my sanity and my life. ❤️
I made a mistake in a moment of feeling really hurt and vulnerable I actually tried to call out the behavior - ugh big mistake. Everyone was offended and hurt by me. Reflecting back on it, even bringing it up in a non emotionally charged scenario, discussing the hurtful behavior wouldn’t have led anywhere. It just gave me more shit to deal with and fires to put out. Working on this indifference with my therapist. Thank you Dr Ramani for your videos!
I had fantastic success calling out my BPD/narc Mom but I had no other choice. She was setting me up and I had to defend myself, and calling her out to other people was part of that process. I also had cameras installed, put trackers on things and basically backed her into a corner where she couldn't do much without being caught. My journey is not typical. No judgments intended, BTW.
His behavior caught up with him and I could honestly not care what he does anymore.
the great thing about this channel and what you talk about is that it reminds me of the abuse and how it keep effecting my life even after months and years of undergoing that abuse. usually, when I talk about it, people tend to brush it off and say "oh that happened a while ago, why are you still bringing it up?", but the truth is: you'll find yourself dealing with those unwanted emotions for a while, and just because it's not happening anymore, doesn't mean the effect of it is gone; however you still can be indifferent in the midst of it all, and you still can feel all of those emotions while not giving a damn about the narcissist or what happens to them. thank you dr. Ramani for the great and helpful content!