Once I had a bunch of horrible slime growing which reduced the flow dramatically. Now I check the trap periodically with a flashlight to make sure it’s flowing and clean. The white ones are transparent enough to see the condition of the tubing.
I'm a plumber, never used them out in the field but purchased one from home depot (liked how it looked) and installed it in my bathroom sink. It's been installed over 4 years ago and have never had a problem with it leaking or any sort of failure. The instant I saw your video, I ran to check the p trap but it is still in perfect working condition...but good, informative video. 👍👌
Yep, installed one and it lasted 6 months and then failed at the threads, but it wasn't from a crack that I can remember. Replaced with regular white and it's been fine for a year now. I haven't seen the clear ones available at my local HD for a while.
Thanks for this video! I just swapped out the transparent p-trap in my parent's kitchen with a white one. There was a slight leak in the transparent p-trap a few weeks after it was installed but it wasn't so bad that I had to reinstall it. This week the leak got so bad that I was mopping up water off the cabinet floor. I recalled watching this video last year and didn't even look for a transparent set to replace the broken one. Thank you!
GOOD INFO Jeff! No different than the saddle valves. I argued with my licensed general contractor about that. Thanks to your videos I knew better. He thinks just because Home Depot and Lowe's sell something it's legit.
I love the manufacturer's response shown at time index 5:10 -- "...rest assured it cannot break passively. The only way for it to break is for an external force to be applied to it while it is in installed position." Its explicit job is to operate while under external forces -- the forces of water flowing into and through it, the forces of heating/contracting due to water temperature, etc. Even the pressure applied by the nut can be considered "external force" since the nut is external to the part that cracked. The only time that trap is ever passive is when it is not installed. While it's easy and appropriate to blame the actual manufacturer (whatever company in China physically created the parts), it is also necessary to blame the selling/brand company (Everbilt, in this case) because THAT is the company that has approved the product for sale, is ultimately selling the product, and is claiming the product is of sufficient quality for its intended purpose. Lastly, I tried searching your videos for "P-trap" to find any follow-up videos, but couldn't find anything. What was the outcome of the testing?
Fernco and clear plastics, good fun! Seriously now, clear plastic piping is inherently brittle. Even UV resistant schedule 80 PVC is brittle. Most common problem is a result of impacts during shipment, which create stress points that will crack later on. Personally I can't stand any of this quick cheapo p-trap stuff. It certainly has its appeal, but the best thing about cheap is, it's cheap. I start with a trap adapter and go to schedule 40 PVC trap/street elbow and solvent cement the whole shebang. Twice the material cost but no leaks, bullet proof.
Coincidentally I made a video about that yesterday about shaming the clear ptrap I’ve seen your previous videos about the clear p trap. Also that homedepot comment at 5:00 I made that comment I always say to use a sch 40 p trap.
Great vid, from what I remember, some abs doesn't like heat, some can't handle chlorine. But with this cracking at the threads, this looks to be weight issue with a mix of heat and maybe chlorine. Clear abs tends to be more porous, so it could be drying out the connection. But still leaning towards weight. For insurance sometimes when you wash stuff in your sink pots or bowls that's a sudden change in weight. Could be over thinking this though.
What is this Weir height 3:33 concept? Is there a certain height we need to be mindful of when installing the long pipe that connects to the plumbing in the wall?
I watched this and then went and got it. Been struggling and need to see if my new setup works…..whenever I figure out the dishwasher drain. Today is day three of getting beat by the kitchen sink plumbing. Both sink strainers were leaking when we bought the house. Step one of my plan was to delete the garbage disposal and get rid of the universal tubing that is too long and just traps water everywhere. I cannot figure out how to connect the dishwasher drain. They always go to the garbage disposal and now we don’t have that. Plumber came by today and quote was $600 for him to do it🤣
We got you covered on this one here th-cam.com/video/6mFfoYcK6zc/w-d-xo.html we just installed this video a couple of months ago showing how to install a kitchen sink drain in the type of connection you would use to go to a dishwasher when you don't have a garbage disposal installed. However I would highly suggest you go back to putting in the garbage disposal life is so much better with it and if you ever have to sell your house that could be a problem for you if there's no garbage disposal plumbed in.
okay, my new 1 1/4" bathroom sink drain comes down and is 2" height from my old 1 1/2" threaded p trap- ( but the p trap is back 1/2". ) there has to be a simple and safe way to attach these. the sink drain could be cut back for a smoother transition. what's a good attachment?
Ya I saw this and thought how do they keep it from cracking, is there some new clear plastic that got invented that doesn't turn hazy, crack, and crumble after a few years? The answer is no.
It's a bummer too, because we love the see through properties of these P-traps, and they confirm that the water is there and clean and draining perfectly but they crack for no reason after a few weeks
I noticed a while back when my wife hred a handyman to install an exhaust vent for the kitchen he was installing accordian duct. I immediately told him it was illegal and he argued and showed me the package which stated Bathroom exhaust, kitchen vent. When I pointed out it was a marketing ploy he insisted it was approved for kitchen exhaust. When I challenged him to cite the code he went blank and refused to answer. Long story short. I'm not physically able to cliimb into the crawl space to install the proper material but managed to do so without crashing the entire ceiling. It took me 10Xs longer than it used to but I eventually installed the proper ridgid vent duct with the old code distance from existing vent lines. In the end I passed all inspections and cinished off installing a coffer around the duct where I had to kick out around a rafter. It gives the home an impressive look having a coffered ceiling where the duct kicks out. The bottom line is, how many illegal and code violation parts and materials are being sold by the big box stores and can there be something done to stop them from doing this? I know it's like stopping a handyman from using an oversized nail gun to install trim. But, most of the things being pushed by the big box stores become fire and safety hazards.
Yes, good you noticed it and changed it. I always prefer the rigid wall tubes. They probably don' like to take the extra time to cut them with snips to piece sections together, and then apply aluminum tape.
ABS isn't naturally clear; that seems just silly. Maybe they modified it or used something known as MABS which seems different for thermal and impact properties. Have you tried also placing the joint under stress or are you sure no joints were stressed at all in the original install?
The mass [volume] passing through the pipe attempts to increase such that with the expanding mass, regardless of how small impact and heat, the manufactured volume that the p-pipe can handle needs to expand accordingly to accommodate the pressure caused by the mass especially of solid particles. The material, in this case plastic, needs to be so stiff that masses of particles will not force it to expand and therefore crack.
Hi Jeff. Thank you for another great video. It would be interesting to know if water temperature creates / accelerates these ABS p-traps failures. Years ago I purchased a blender that had a clear plastic lid insert that cracked almost in half after washing it - by hand - in hot water. Happened with two inserts. Perhaps the ABS p-trap hot water flush / leak test you perform - as shown in another video - inadvertently exposes a temperature sensitivity inherent in the clear, ABS plastic p-trap. Not saying you caused the problem, but perhaps your test exposes a pre-existing product weakness. Just a thought.
Unfortunate to hear this trap is not doing well in the field. Clear pipes are a step forward in plumbing . The ability to simply look and see is something everyone should want. Builders and homeowners alike. Hopefully these will continue to progress to be as sturdy as pvc sometime in the future.
i had to use the accordion pipe for my kitchen sink my house is 70 years old could not match to the drain pipe in wall only way i could make it work was the accordian
It's because it is clear. The fact that it and the white are both ABS is immaterial. ABS is a category of plastic but does not ecompass all the polymer chemistries which all have some differences with each other. Aluminum for example has something like 10,000 different metal chemistry for various use cases. But they are all still aluminum alloys. Same principle here. A distinct characteristic of any polymer is the degree of "cross-linking" which occurs in the finished product. Crosslinking is correlated with deformation characteristics. It also correlates with opacity. In most cases, clear thick walled plastics are less crosslinked than opaque walled plastics which means they generally are more brittle in mechanical terms. This may be starting to change with new formulations but the above hueristic is still commonly true.
@@jeffostroff hey Jeff are you ever going to review the clear polymer Quick Clean Sink Trap? I started looking at that after seeing this video and the user reviews for it seem much better. Haven't seen the feedback of cracking with this thing.
Have mine for over a year now and it's fine. It's together with a garbage disposal. This is the first time I ever put one in so I watched a lot of videos. Some good and bad advice out there so need to be extra careful with this one. I also don't pour boiling water or bleach down either. It has clouded up with food particles over time. Haven't done anything yet to clear it up tho. If anyone has a suggestion let me know.
Jeff how about testing it with a large pot of boiling pasta water. I know that PVC can be deformed when heated but I don't know what happens to clear ABS. I have some clear plastic drinking cubs that have developed cracks in my dishwasher I assume from heat. I think it would be easy enough to set up a test. Thank you for your videos!!
In my limited experience working in the plumbing product industry, the likely failure you've identified is the material selection. ABS plastic is highly suceptible to environmental stress cracking, especially in the presence of surfactants in stressed applications. Given that P traps are commonly used in areas with detergents (e.g. soap), an ideal environment exists for ESC. You can research this in detail, but the long and short is the surfactants are causing stressed components (from hand tightening, swelling of seals (from chlorine/chloramine water), or from misalignment/constant load) to fail through crack propogation. Thermal cycling likely plays a role, too. More details on ESC here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_stress_cracking All that said, this is likely not an issue with the location of the manufacturer nor production of the part, though it's possible residual molding stress can propogate ESC. If a part is designed poorly, is doesn't matter where or how it's made, it will always fail. 😁 Another article on ESC: www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/environmental-stress-cracking
@@JohnDoe-dk9cd Does not seem to affect the black ABS plastic that they use in California pipes may be because that sticker this is thin walled tubing they dont even call it pipes.
I wonder if these are more delicate - a slightly thinner gauge or something - and, along with that, maybe they were subject to some accidental impacts when putting things into or taking them out from the cabinets under the sink.
With PVC pipe if the blade jumped a little at the start of the cut and gouged or scratched part of the pipe where a fitting has to be glued on, Will that be unacceptable to glue and create a bad glue joint ? It’s some shallow gouging about 1/8 inch wide near the end of the pipe on the top of the pipe. I had to cut it under a vanity for a new p trap. Was hard to get started with the cut. Not sure if I should buy a ratchet cutter and re do or glue what I’ve got to the p trap adapter
@@jeffostroff the scratch is where the blade jumped a bit before I got a miter box to place it in and got everything going nicely. It’s so shallow. In the vanity cabinet I actually turned over a bucket, stacked folded rags and place the pipe in a miter box (after cutting off the old fitting) and that gave me a very square final cut, a little drifting at the bottom like less than 1 degree angle toward bottom as I came down it went away from me just slightly in the miter box. No bigger angle than the variance in the slot in the miter box. That should be ok right ? I looked at the fitting I cut off from 1989 when house constructed and the cut was no where near as square as what I did with the miter box I think it should be good was just worried about that scratch on top when I started before getting a miter box This is such 40, 1 1/2 in DWV for a bathroom sink drain. Need to cement weld/glue a l trap adapter on the end of this pipe for my p trao Previously the house had a glued p trap and a 90 degree elbow on this pipe required removal for the new p trap to be used
I never used one, seemed like a gimmick to me, I would think it is temperature related, hot, cold, hot cold, if the clear was better, all the pipes would be clear. I do like the Home Depot traps, they have the soft rubber gaskets that seem to seal very well
The white traps are made of polypropylene-not polyethylene. The clear traps are made of ABS. ABS pipe and fittings are hard - polypropylene is soft. The reason the ABS tubular traps split is due to their hardness, combined with the thin wall not being able to withstand the expansion and contraction associated with the varying temperatures of water going down the drain. The polypropylene traps will expand and contract without splitting. You don’t need to be an engineer to work that out. If you were a plumber, you would be much better at working out plumbing problems.
7:11 was thinking that too, maybe the temp fluctuations is having an affect, somehow. 9:23 Everyone has a little bit of crazy in them😜; but I’m totally the same way. Gotta know or figure out the answer as to why “something” is happening etc.... It’s that wonderful way our minds work, lol, & also drives other ppl nuts (like our significant others, lol)🤪 10:21 Gotta love the smell of Chlorine when you turn the kitchen tap on, smells so wonderful, doesn’t it 🤢 VERY CURIOUS to see the outcome of that test (regardless of results....wanna see what ya get👍🏻) Have a good one, CHEERS✌🏼
Jeff I have seen bleach weaken plastic and show similar stress cracks. some 30 years ago working with injection molded plastics and reaction to disinfectants. find out what your friends cleaning routine includes.
@@jeffostroff The kids told me they had made pasta and strained the hot water down the drain. So it is likely that boiling water was the culprit in our case.
JEFF - Have you seen the newer version of the transparent "p-trap"? It's not really a p-trap. It's a bottle trap. "SinkGENIE ABS Plastic No Mess Easy Clean P-Trap" It looks like it's based on an inline commercial water filter like we used in our plant. 😆😅🤣 The new one DOES look better engineered than the one you demonstrated though. Probably works just fine now.
The curves are not different, I hooked up the white one backwards as an easter egg, to see if any trolls will come in and leave comments like "you idiot, you hooked up the P-trap backwards". It's a trick I use to help stimulate engagement on the videos, causing more comments, which helps videos rank better.
Bruce some plumbers do this, but I feel it is a cover up for not being able to stop the leak, we have a video that covers this and how to prevent the p-trap from leaking here: th-cam.com/video/tqf11On2xEA/w-d-xo.html
Those hare hard plastic, which dries and crack with heat faster than PVC, specially using hot water. The accordion type are trash too, the circles are very thin, and crack soon.
Wow, it can not handle vibration from a food waste disposer even when you have a rubber boot dampening the vibrations at the connection to house plumbing. I would not use it anywhere if it is this weak.
Next time we do a property flip that's what I want to do. the code really requires hammer aressters on all major water hook ups like washing machines. The newer outlet boxes with the hot and cold water shut off valves built into them, many also have the hammer arresters built onto them as well.
My p trap keeps losing water and drying up. I’ve heard anti siphon/ bottle traps solve this problem but they’re only sold in the Uk. Do you recommend something that has an anti siphon feature?
P traps usually work pretty good and are not known for self siphoning, so I'm wondering if there's some other issue for example are you on an island to kitchen and you are not connected to a vent stack? Does your P trap in turn go straight down into the floor afterwards or does it go straight back into the wall into a vent stack ? Let me know
@@jeffostroff hey thanks for replying Jeff. My sink is in the bathroom, the pipe is connected to a vent stack and the pipe goes directly in the wall. Not sure if the stack is blocked or not but the house is only a couple years old.
@@dannytran173 The vent stack may be clogged.... see if flushing the toilet empty the bathroom sink... If the vent stack connects to the sink is clogged., then when you use your bathroom., the air comes from the sink...
@@jeffostroff I read that these Everbilt clear traps (1 1/2") are rated at 180F, so not designed for boiling water (212 F). If you do tests with boiling water, it might be fair to also do a test on PVC. I did a quick search on their ratings and they don't seem to be any better, although maybe ABC cracks and PVC only deteriorates over time or something like that? Either way, maybe people shouldn't strain their pasta's boiling water over their sink or dump their excess boiling tea or instant coffee water or run their instant boiling water devices into their sinks and these guys will be alright? I just bought one of the Everbilt clear traps. We don't do any of the boiling water stuff, so maybe we'll be ok? This might explain why you installed two of the Everbilt in a row and they both cracked because maybe she was exceeding their water temp ratings?
Man I hope they take notice, and get those off the shelves. I've already lost hours of precious time debugging this issue, and going back to the store for more.
See code here, it says traps must be self scouring, which is not what accordions are: 1002.2Design of traps. Fixture traps shall be self-scouring. Fixture traps shall not have interior partitions, except where such traps are integral with the fixture or where such traps are constructed of an approved material that is resistant to corrosion and degradation. Slip joints shall be made with an approved elastomeric gasket and shall be installed only on the trap inlet, trap outlet and within the trap seal. 1002.3Prohibited traps. The following types of traps are prohibited: 1.Traps that depend on moving parts to maintain the seal. 2.Bell traps. 3.Crown-vented traps. 4.Traps not integral with a fixture and that depend on interior partitions for the seal, except those traps constructed of an approved material that is resistant to corrosion and degradation. 5.“S” traps. 6.Drum traps. Exception: Drum traps used as solids interceptors and drum traps serving chemical waste systems shall not be prohibited.
China can make any quality but the problem is how much funding they have to work with; They are now innovative and surpass the USA in many fields but still lag behind in some fields, this is the hard reality because China produces 500,000 engineers a year while the USA produces only a few and alot of them are Asian Americans anyways but at least the USA produces the highest # of lawyers! Luv your vids, your a great teacher!
Nah buddy, Chinese products are really hit and miss, mostly miss. I used to think it was a stereotype to complain about the quality of Chinese products, until I grew up and started buying them for myself... mostly junk. The entire country can be engineers and it wouldn't matter. Until the quality of their engineering gets better, they will continue to produce junk. I'm looking forward to other countries competing with their manufacturing. Monopolies always produce laziness, which is probably their issue.
As mentioned in this video:
📺 WATCH: Why Your P-Trap Leaks At Connection Nut, Cracked Pipe Thread: th-cam.com/video/BvbUknVglFY/w-d-xo.html
📺 WATCH: Installing Garbage Disposal DIY: Insinkerator Badger 5 Installation: th-cam.com/video/q9RrBJo0JOw/w-d-xo.html
📺 WATCH: Why Your Garbage Disposal Leaks From Bottom: Disassembly: th-cam.com/video/mz_jlosZbZE/w-d-xo.html
📺 WATCH: P-Trap Installation Drain Doesn’t Line Up Bathroom Sink Pipe: th-cam.com/video/b_OSgwpteR4/w-d-xo.html
📺 WATCH: Why is my Kitchen Sink P-Trap Leaking at Connection Nut? th-cam.com/video/cEjiICErSQg/w-d-xo.html
Once I had a bunch of horrible slime growing which reduced the flow dramatically. Now I check the trap periodically with a flashlight to make sure it’s flowing and clean. The white ones are transparent enough to see the condition of the tubing.
@@m60mgman That's a good trick to try. Fortunately for us the white P-traps have been 100% reliable.
I'm a plumber, never used them out in the field but purchased one from home depot (liked how it looked) and installed it in my bathroom sink. It's been installed over 4 years ago and have never had a problem with it leaking or any sort of failure. The instant I saw your video, I ran to check the p trap but it is still in perfect working condition...but good, informative video. 👍👌
there might be a few who survive, it's amazing I had one last a month, and in anther installation lasted 2 weeks
Must have something to do with the water in your zone that is not affecting them, where do you live?
@@Superguapo100 probably installed correctly. Not a perfect alignment so it causes stress fractures.
Bathroom & kitchen sinks are used under completely different conditions, as im sure you already know.
I had just ordered the clear P trap on Amazon after watching the initial video. Very glad to have found this. Thanks for updating, Jeff
Glad it was helpful Edward!
Yep, installed one and it lasted 6 months and then failed at the threads, but it wasn't from a crack that I can remember. Replaced with regular white and it's been fine for a year now. I haven't seen the clear ones available at my local HD for a while.
Probably they were getting so many returns on them
Thanks for this video! I just swapped out the transparent p-trap in my parent's kitchen with a white one. There was a slight leak in the transparent p-trap a few weeks after it was installed but it wasn't so bad that I had to reinstall it. This week the leak got so bad that I was mopping up water off the cabinet floor. I recalled watching this video last year and didn't even look for a transparent set to replace the broken one. Thank you!
Awesome, glad to help!
Amazing that this invention wasn't perfected decades ago. Cool looking trap.
I'm still hoping they improve on it, like maybe making it out of that transparent rubber hose material.
GOOD INFO Jeff!
No different than the saddle valves. I argued with my licensed general contractor about that. Thanks to your videos I knew better. He thinks just because Home Depot and Lowe's sell something it's legit.
Yes, a lot of people think that. If your GC was an actual plumber, he would know the difference.
I love the manufacturer's response shown at time index 5:10 -- "...rest assured it cannot break passively. The only way for it to break is for an external force to be applied to it while it is in installed position." Its explicit job is to operate while under external forces -- the forces of water flowing into and through it, the forces of heating/contracting due to water temperature, etc. Even the pressure applied by the nut can be considered "external force" since the nut is external to the part that cracked. The only time that trap is ever passive is when it is not installed.
While it's easy and appropriate to blame the actual manufacturer (whatever company in China physically created the parts), it is also necessary to blame the selling/brand company (Everbilt, in this case) because THAT is the company that has approved the product for sale, is ultimately selling the product, and is claiming the product is of sufficient quality for its intended purpose.
Lastly, I tried searching your videos for "P-trap" to find any follow-up videos, but couldn't find anything. What was the outcome of the testing?
Does great while still in the bag at the store
Fernco and clear plastics, good fun! Seriously now, clear plastic piping is inherently brittle. Even UV resistant schedule 80 PVC is brittle. Most common problem is a result of impacts during shipment, which create stress points that will crack later on. Personally I can't stand any of this quick cheapo p-trap stuff. It certainly has its appeal, but the best thing about cheap is, it's cheap. I start with a trap adapter and go to schedule 40 PVC trap/street elbow and solvent cement the whole shebang. Twice the material cost but no leaks, bullet proof.
Any updates on the washtub submersion?
Coincidentally I made a video about that yesterday about shaming the clear ptrap I’ve seen your previous videos about the clear p trap.
Also that homedepot comment at 5:00 I made that comment I always say to use a sch 40 p trap.
Yes, back in the 1970s in our area they made all P-traps from 1 1/2" PVC pipes and fittings cemented together permenantly, there were no leaks.
Great vid, from what I remember, some abs doesn't like heat, some can't handle chlorine. But with this cracking at the threads, this looks to be weight issue with a mix of heat and maybe chlorine. Clear abs tends to be more porous, so it could be drying out the connection. But still leaning towards weight. For insurance sometimes when you wash stuff in your sink pots or bowls that's a sudden change in weight. Could be over thinking this though.
We have been testing temperature extremes on it this week.
@@jeffostroff I'm guessing you haven't seen anything yet I'll be watching for your next video on this pretty interested
I believe its the heat and cool from hot to cold water that causes the issues. I think making it clear removed the pliability and made it brittle.
We have been testing that over several days still cannot duplicate it
What is this Weir height 3:33 concept? Is there a certain height we need to be mindful of when installing the long pipe that connects to the plumbing in the wall?
I watched this and then went and got it. Been struggling and need to see if my new setup works…..whenever I figure out the dishwasher drain. Today is day three of getting beat by the kitchen sink plumbing. Both sink strainers were leaking when we bought the house. Step one of my plan was to delete the garbage disposal and get rid of the universal tubing that is too long and just traps water everywhere.
I cannot figure out how to connect the dishwasher drain. They always go to the garbage disposal and now we don’t have that. Plumber came by today and quote was $600 for him to do it🤣
We got you covered on this one here th-cam.com/video/6mFfoYcK6zc/w-d-xo.html we just installed this video a couple of months ago showing how to install a kitchen sink drain in the type of connection you would use to go to a dishwasher when you don't have a garbage disposal installed. However I would highly suggest you go back to putting in the garbage disposal life is so much better with it and if you ever have to sell your house that could be a problem for you if there's no garbage disposal plumbed in.
Great job and great explanation. I almost bought that one but your video saved me.
Glad I could help
okay, my new 1 1/4" bathroom sink drain comes down and is 2" height from my old 1 1/2" threaded p trap-
( but the p trap is back 1/2". )
there has to be a simple and safe way to attach these. the sink drain could be cut back for a smoother transition. what's a good attachment?
Thank you so much for that video I was just about to go buy one only because they look cool.
Glad I could help I really wish they would last because I loved the look also
Ya I saw this and thought how do they keep it from cracking, is there some new clear plastic that got invented that doesn't turn hazy, crack, and crumble after a few years? The answer is no.
It's a bummer too, because we love the see through properties of these P-traps, and they confirm that the water is there and clean and draining perfectly but they crack for no reason after a few weeks
I noticed a while back when my wife hred a handyman to install an exhaust vent for the kitchen he was installing accordian duct. I immediately told him it was illegal and he argued and showed me the package which stated Bathroom exhaust, kitchen vent. When I pointed out it was a marketing ploy he insisted it was approved for kitchen exhaust. When I challenged him to cite the code he went blank and refused to answer.
Long story short. I'm not physically able to cliimb into the crawl space to install the proper material but managed to do so without crashing the entire ceiling. It took me 10Xs longer than it used to but I eventually installed the proper ridgid vent duct with the old code distance from existing vent lines. In the end I passed all inspections and cinished off installing a coffer around the duct where I had to kick out around a rafter. It gives the home an impressive look having a coffered ceiling where the duct kicks out.
The bottom line is, how many illegal and code violation parts and materials are being sold by the big box stores and can there be something done to stop them from doing this? I know it's like stopping a handyman from using an oversized nail gun to install trim. But, most of the things being pushed by the big box stores become fire and safety hazards.
Yes, good you noticed it and changed it. I always prefer the rigid wall tubes. They probably don' like to take the extra time to cut them with snips to piece sections together, and then apply aluminum tape.
ABS isn't naturally clear; that seems just silly. Maybe they modified it or used something known as MABS which seems different for thermal and impact properties. Have you tried also placing the joint under stress or are you sure no joints were stressed at all in the original install?
I have not done vibration testing on them yet, I wan to try boiling water like from spaghetti
The mass [volume] passing through the pipe attempts to increase such that with the expanding mass, regardless of how small impact and heat, the manufactured volume that the p-pipe can handle needs to expand accordingly to accommodate the pressure caused by the mass especially of solid particles. The material, in this case plastic, needs to be so stiff that masses of particles will not force it to expand and therefore crack.
Hi Jeff. Thank you for another great video.
It would be interesting to know if water temperature creates / accelerates these ABS p-traps failures. Years ago I purchased a blender that had a clear plastic lid insert that cracked almost in half after washing it - by hand - in hot water. Happened with two inserts. Perhaps the ABS p-trap hot water flush / leak test you perform - as shown in another video - inadvertently exposes a temperature sensitivity inherent in the clear, ABS plastic p-trap. Not saying you caused the problem, but perhaps your test exposes a pre-existing product weakness. Just a thought.
I plan additional testing later this summer. been so busy on multiple projectsd
Unfortunate to hear this trap is not doing well in the field. Clear pipes are a step forward in plumbing . The ability to simply look and see is something everyone should want. Builders and homeowners alike. Hopefully these will continue to progress to be as sturdy as pvc sometime in the future.
i had to use the accordion pipe for my kitchen sink my house is 70 years old could not match to the drain pipe in wall only way i could make it work was the accordian
Thank you for the video Jeff.
You bet Supercool, thanks for watching!
Can we use a grey color plastic pipes for drain lines in Florida to meet plumbing code
It's because it is clear. The fact that it and the white are both ABS is immaterial. ABS is a category of plastic but does not ecompass all the polymer chemistries which all have some differences with each other. Aluminum for example has something like 10,000 different metal chemistry for various use cases. But they are all still aluminum alloys. Same principle here. A distinct characteristic of any polymer is the degree of "cross-linking" which occurs in the finished product. Crosslinking is correlated with deformation characteristics. It also correlates with opacity. In most cases, clear thick walled plastics are less crosslinked than opaque walled plastics which means they generally are more brittle in mechanical terms. This may be starting to change with new formulations but the above hueristic is still commonly true.
Even the manufacturer admitted the clear is slightly more brittle.
@@jeffostroff hey Jeff are you ever going to review the clear polymer Quick Clean Sink Trap? I started looking at that after seeing this video and the user reviews for it seem much better. Haven't seen the feedback of cracking with this thing.
Have mine for over a year now and it's fine. It's together with a garbage disposal. This is the first time I ever put one in so I watched a lot of videos. Some good and bad advice out there so need to be extra careful with this one. I also don't pour boiling water or bleach down either.
It has clouded up with food particles over time. Haven't done anything yet to clear it up tho. If anyone has a suggestion let me know.
Great video and information, thanks for sharing
Glad it was helpful!
Just returned a p trap kit to home depot. Went to Menards and got everything I needed.
Can you do a video about the KEENEY manufacturing rubber squeeze clean j bend I personally don’t like it.
Do you have a model number/part # for it from Home Depot
I can't find what pvc cement you use on any of your videos. Please advise.
There's a reason we've used the same TWO Materials for drain pipes for so long....
Jeff how about testing it with a large pot of boiling pasta water. I know that PVC can be deformed when heated but I don't know what happens to clear ABS. I have some clear plastic drinking cubs that have developed cracks in my dishwasher I assume from heat. I think it would be easy enough to set up a test. Thank you for your videos!!
I plan to do hot water testing this week Dan.
In my limited experience working in the plumbing product industry, the likely failure you've identified is the material selection.
ABS plastic is highly suceptible to environmental stress cracking, especially in the presence of surfactants in stressed applications. Given that P traps are commonly used in areas with detergents (e.g. soap), an ideal environment exists for ESC. You can research this in detail, but the long and short is the surfactants are causing stressed components (from hand tightening, swelling of seals (from chlorine/chloramine water), or from misalignment/constant load) to fail through crack propogation. Thermal cycling likely plays a role, too.
More details on ESC here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_stress_cracking
All that said, this is likely not an issue with the location of the manufacturer nor production of the part, though it's possible residual molding stress can propogate ESC. If a part is designed poorly, is doesn't matter where or how it's made, it will always fail. 😁
Another article on ESC: www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/environmental-stress-cracking
@@JohnDoe-dk9cd Does not seem to affect the black ABS plastic that they use in California pipes may be because that sticker this is thin walled tubing they dont even call it pipes.
Great video Jeff. You saved a lot of people a lot of aggravation. That’s too bad, it’s a cool idea.
Yes, would love to see them improve the brittleness of these P-traps.
I wonder if these are more delicate - a slightly thinner gauge or something - and, along with that, maybe they were subject to some accidental impacts when putting things into or taking them out from the cabinets under the sink.
Research has shown that the clear ABS is more brittle
With PVC pipe if the blade jumped a little at the start of the cut and gouged or scratched part of the pipe where a fitting has to be glued on, Will that be unacceptable to glue and create a bad glue joint ? It’s some shallow gouging about 1/8 inch wide near the end of the pipe on the top of the pipe. I had to cut it under a vanity for a new p trap. Was hard to get started with the cut. Not sure if I should buy a ratchet cutter and re do or glue what I’ve got to the p trap adapter
A scratch is fine. Remember you are not dealing with high pressure water. As long as it did not cut all the way though, you should be OK.
@@jeffostroff the scratch is where the blade jumped a bit before I got a miter box to place it in and got everything going nicely. It’s so shallow. In the vanity cabinet I actually turned over a bucket, stacked folded rags and place the pipe in a miter box (after cutting off the old fitting) and that gave me a very square final cut, a little drifting at the bottom like less than 1 degree angle toward bottom as I came down it went away from me just slightly in the miter box. No bigger angle than the variance in the slot in the miter box. That should be ok right ?
I looked at the fitting I cut off from 1989 when house constructed and the cut was no where near as square as what I did with the miter box
I think it should be good was just worried about that scratch on top when I started before getting a miter box
This is such 40, 1 1/2 in DWV for a bathroom sink drain. Need to cement weld/glue a l trap adapter on the end of this pipe for my p trao
Previously the house had a glued p trap and a 90 degree elbow on this pipe required removal for the new p trap to be used
I never used one, seemed like a gimmick to me, I would think it is temperature related, hot, cold, hot cold, if the clear was better, all the pipes would be clear. I do like the Home Depot traps, they have the soft rubber gaskets that seem to seal very well
I love the idea of the clear because yo can see if anything is blocking the pipe
Never had a problem with them. Still have them in some places for yrs without issues.
famous last words!
Same. Still good to know why they could fail.
The white traps are made of polypropylene-not polyethylene. The clear traps are made of ABS. ABS pipe and fittings are hard - polypropylene is soft. The reason the ABS tubular traps split is due to their hardness, combined with the thin wall not being able to withstand the expansion and contraction associated with the varying temperatures of water going down the drain. The polypropylene traps will expand and contract without splitting. You don’t need to be an engineer to work that out. If you were a plumber, you would be much better at working out plumbing problems.
Most plumbers can't even answer this
@@jeffostroff One just did. One with four decades in the trade.
7:11 was thinking that too, maybe the temp fluctuations is having an affect, somehow.
9:23 Everyone has a little bit of crazy in them😜; but I’m totally the same way. Gotta know or figure out the answer as to why “something” is happening etc.... It’s that wonderful way our minds work, lol, & also drives other ppl nuts (like our significant others, lol)🤪
10:21 Gotta love the smell of Chlorine when you turn the kitchen tap on, smells so wonderful, doesn’t it 🤢
VERY CURIOUS to see the outcome of that test (regardless of results....wanna see what ya get👍🏻)
Have a good one, CHEERS✌🏼
Hopefully will get some results soon.
Jeff I have seen bleach weaken plastic and show similar stress cracks. some 30 years ago working with injection molded plastics and reaction to disinfectants. find out what your friends cleaning routine includes.
I had asked her about that before, and she does not use bleach. Just dish washing liquid.
I'm here with the same p trap, same problem. Ours cracked after 6 months.
Yup, I need to try boiling water on it to see if that is the culprit.
@@jeffostroff The kids told me they had made pasta and strained the hot water down the drain. So it is likely that boiling water was the culprit in our case.
JEFF - Have you seen the newer version of the transparent "p-trap"? It's not really a p-trap. It's a bottle trap. "SinkGENIE ABS Plastic No Mess Easy Clean P-Trap" It looks like it's based on an inline commercial water filter like we used in our plant. 😆😅🤣 The new one DOES look better engineered than the one you demonstrated though. Probably works just fine now.
Why is the design of the curvature different in the two p traps?
The curves are not different, I hooked up the white one backwards as an easter egg, to see if any trolls will come in and leave comments like "you idiot, you hooked up the P-trap backwards". It's a trick I use to help stimulate engagement on the videos, causing more comments, which helps videos rank better.
@@jeffostroff Thank you. Mystery solved. Good idea.
Can I use pipe dope on the small angle of my P trap if it leaks?
Bruce some plumbers do this, but I feel it is a cover up for not being able to stop the leak, we have a video that covers this and how to prevent the p-trap from leaking here: th-cam.com/video/tqf11On2xEA/w-d-xo.html
One question, why does Home Depot sell the black p trap for like 1.67 and the white one for 3.67
I don't know, I have not seen the black one, could not find it online for $1.67 on Home depot, got a part number?
jeffostroff model # ca9704b. Internet#. 205154221. Store sku#. 1000049722.... it’s actually $1.35 only
Because the black one is a steal
😏
Abs is the black one, and it is essentially cheaper to make than pvc if im not mistaken material wise.
Helpful. Thank you.
Those hare hard plastic, which dries and crack with heat faster than PVC, specially using hot water. The accordion type are trash too, the circles are very thin, and crack soon.
Yes, you are right
I have re set the leaky sections of mine for a year. I'm done with it!
It's a shame because they look awesome!
Another great video
Glad you enjoyed it Robert
Just installed the flex trap the other day just save money on an ADA offset to save room under a sink. We shall see
Just keep your eye on it periodically
Wow, it can not handle vibration from a food waste disposer even when you have a rubber boot dampening the vibrations at the connection to house plumbing. I would not use it anywhere if it is this weak.
We've even had people tell us this failed under their bathroom sink, where there is no vibration from a garbage disposal.
@@jeffostroff Ouch, yeah it's best to not display grey water to a customer anyway.
What about hot water? Couldn’t that crack the p trap? Or even combo of hot and cold changes?
That's what we mentioned in the video, and will be doing testing on that as well.
Very helpful
Glad you think so!
Can you do a video on water hammer, relating to wash machines? Thanks in advance.
Next time we do a property flip that's what I want to do. the code really requires hammer aressters on all major water hook ups like washing machines. The newer outlet boxes with the hot and cold water shut off valves built into them, many also have the hammer arresters built onto them as well.
My p trap keeps losing water and drying up. I’ve heard anti siphon/ bottle traps solve this problem but they’re only sold in the Uk. Do you recommend something that has an anti siphon feature?
P traps usually work pretty good and are not known for self siphoning, so I'm wondering if there's some other issue for example are you on an island to kitchen and you are not connected to a vent stack? Does your P trap in turn go straight down into the floor afterwards or does it go straight back into the wall into a vent stack ? Let me know
@@jeffostroff hey thanks for replying Jeff. My sink is in the bathroom, the pipe is connected to a vent stack and the pipe goes directly in the wall. Not sure if the stack is blocked or not but the house is only a couple years old.
@@dannytran173
The vent stack may be clogged.... see if flushing the toilet empty the bathroom sink...
If the vent stack connects to the sink is clogged., then when you use your bathroom., the air comes from the sink...
I had 2 fail within 48 hours. I believe it was from the dishwasher's heated water discharge.
Yes we'll be testing that this week
I haven't seen this p-trap locally (WA state) and can't find it online either...
All the better for you, now you dodged a bullet.
I saw this p trap today at Home Depot in snohomish
Jeff you Should say “for science!” That’s why.
Oh, the the things I do in the name of Science!
Cause I have The accordion looking thing on both restroom sinks and kitchen sink??? And I’m renting????
The should not have the accordion, the landlord should remove it.
Clear plastic they use is VERY brittle. The white plastic is soft.
It's a shame they can't build it more robust, I love the concept
if they are banned...why do they still sell them?
They are banned by building code not by law
Have same p trap... it just broke after 11 months
Yup, what a shame, and they just keep making them without fixing the problem
My local home depot has not carried these for years but they do still carry the other ones for some reason
I'm still trying to duplicate the failure mode, might have to try boiling water.
@@jeffostroff I read that these Everbilt clear traps (1 1/2") are rated at 180F, so not designed for boiling water (212 F). If you do tests with boiling water, it might be fair to also do a test on PVC. I did a quick search on their ratings and they don't seem to be any better, although maybe ABC cracks and PVC only deteriorates over time or something like that? Either way, maybe people shouldn't strain their pasta's boiling water over their sink or dump their excess boiling tea or instant coffee water or run their instant boiling water devices into their sinks and these guys will be alright? I just bought one of the Everbilt clear traps. We don't do any of the boiling water stuff, so maybe we'll be ok? This might explain why you installed two of the Everbilt in a row and they both cracked because maybe she was exceeding their water temp ratings?
@@rockettcrawford890 We need to do more testing on this. Maybe if they let the boiling water sit a minute it drops down in temperature.
I almost got this, got a white one instead. Lucked out, as that model is fine
You dodged a bullet
It's probably a combination of chlorine and hot water softening the pipe, causing it to crack
Not softening the pipe, the pipe is brittle. Heat from the water would likely expand the plastic slightly, causing the crack.
@@jeffostroff isn't that what I said ?
chlorine will evaporate out in a few hours. flush and refill with fresh once or more times a day.
We refill the tub every day
You might want to go to my old house and tell them they might want to change out that pipe
I know, remember how it cracked in 2016 just a few months after we installed it?
But I replaced with the same and it didn’t leak again
Homedepot take notice .
Man I hope they take notice, and get those off the shelves. I've already lost hours of precious time debugging this issue, and going back to the store for more.
What’s the code
See code here, it says traps must be self scouring, which is not what accordions are:
1002.2Design of traps.
Fixture traps shall be self-scouring. Fixture traps shall not have interior partitions, except where such traps are integral with the fixture or where such traps are constructed of an approved material that is resistant to corrosion and degradation. Slip joints shall be made with an approved elastomeric gasket and shall be installed only on the trap inlet, trap outlet and within the trap seal.
1002.3Prohibited traps.
The following types of traps are prohibited:
1.Traps that depend on moving parts to maintain the seal.
2.Bell traps.
3.Crown-vented traps.
4.Traps not integral with a fixture and that depend on interior partitions for the seal, except those traps constructed of an approved material that is resistant to corrosion and degradation.
5.“S” traps.
6.Drum traps.
Exception: Drum traps used as solids interceptors and drum traps serving chemical waste systems shall not be prohibited.
If only they could perfect clear plumbing pipes...
That would be awesome, these look really cool!
Double the strength
So, Jeff it is better to buy a white one P TRAP.
yes don't buy the clear traps
Great idea. Lousy engineering. Reject. A complete redo.
Yes it sure seems like no one performed any real world advanced life testing on these P-traps.
What about people using bleach to clean/sanitize their sinks. Lots more chlorine in that than in tap water.
I hate bleach, and the smell, I keep telling my wife don't bring bleach home
how hot is her water?
we did not determine that
Hot water effects plastic
Yes it does indeed
China can make any quality but the problem is how much funding they have to work with; They are now innovative and surpass the USA in many fields but still lag behind in some fields, this is the hard reality because China produces 500,000 engineers a year while the USA produces only a few and alot of them are Asian Americans anyways but at least the USA produces the highest # of lawyers! Luv your vids, your a great teacher!
Thanks Michael!
Nah buddy, Chinese products are really hit and miss, mostly miss. I used to think it was a stereotype to complain about the quality of Chinese products, until I grew up and started buying them for myself... mostly junk.
The entire country can be engineers and it wouldn't matter. Until the quality of their engineering gets better, they will continue to produce junk.
I'm looking forward to other countries competing with their manufacturing. Monopolies always produce laziness, which is probably their issue.
7:48 Made in CHY-na
Yup!
SOMEBODY'S doing the cracking
Squeeze p trap model number 10400GCK
The white ones suck, why would a clear be any different. These always leak. Solid sch 40 abs is better.
Is this product from China joe's plumbing??????
As Trump would call it....Gina
comment for algo
crappy and worthless design, they leak all the time.
Yes, it is a bad design
Bad plastic
Way, way too verbose. We don't have time for that- just get to your point and make it in a fraction of the time that it took you.
yes i have been improving on that over the last year
You could do with better storybording, this video felt all over the place
been looking into this since then, shorter vids, scripts, etc