"Is plumbing one of your interests?" "Nope" "Wanna se how to properly syphoning your drainage pipes?" "Oh you know me so well, dear algorithm!" Edit: for who did not catch it, it was implied that indeed I liked the suggestion, watched and liked the video, otherwise why bother to comment on it! 😁
In Finland, a special odor trap is used in toilet sinks, which is based on the s-trap, but the old s-trap is still used in the kitchen sink because it helps keep warm-seeking bugs and insects out of the house. Instead, installing pipes inside the walls should be avoided, because it is a risk of water damage if the pipe starts to leak or crack, allowing moisture to ruin the wall structures and insulation.
2:37 Neat fact, this vent that goes to your roof and lets fresh air into the system is the reason why you sometimes see the water in your toilet bowl sloshing around when it's windy outside. I always wondered why that happens, so I looked it up a few years ago.
If the wind if fast enough, some of the water gets sucked out of the toilet bowl. My wife and I were wondering if our toilet had some sort of a leak since the water in the bowl would go down. It turned out we were just having crazy winds that day (yesterday).
We had hurricane-force winds here in Atlanta when Hurricane Irma came up through several years ago. During these winds, it was fascinating watching the toilet water slosh around LOL And as @Duane Degn mentioned, sometimes the water would get sucked out totally.
@@MangaGamified I always suspected I was being haunted by a toilet-ghost. Now I know. Thank's for clearing that up. I guess this confirms my supsicions that it's a gateway to another dimension.
I cant attest to this. I stayed in a house recently that was not occupied for sometime and I could smell sewer gas strongly in the house, especially near the sinks, toilets and tubs. So I aired the place out and ran water in all the drains. It still smelled though because the stench had permeated the fabrics of the carpets and furniture.
@Schrodinger's Snuffleupagus In California public restrooms, floor drains are required to have trap-primers, to occasionally put a small amount of water down the floor drain automatically. I used to think they were overkill till I started noticing the same problem in my quest bathroom's shower drain.
@Schrodinger's Snuffleupagus In Europe, especially Scandinavia, holiday homes are commonplace; we have ours in France although we live in Wales, an overnight ferry boat ride away. Its normal to not visit for a couple of months at a time, and this last year during travel restrictions its been even longer. There is a ritual to arriving that includes running all water systems for ten minutes to avoid danger from Legionaires disease incubating in the hot water system, as well as to flush down the drainage system. Evaporation from the traps is very common after several months dis-use. First world problems, as they say.
@@Got2Learn Do you think that AAV could work for me? I have an issue in my kitchen that always seems to smell and I tried everything (99% sure it comes from the sewer). I have a P-Trap and I asked the landlord if he can check the vent (at least the outlet on the roof) if it's s clogged, but he didnt wanna do it, downplaying it. There is always water in the P-Trap yet it stinks so I really am confused how that is possible for fumes to come out of the sewer. All the installation is behind drywall with tiles on it, so the options to do anything there are practically limited and theoretically I am not allowed to anyway. Mind you, the bathroom which is opposite room of the kitchen smells like roses, even though it should probably drain to the same pipes.
@@maxmeier532 see my post, replace the p trap with an s trap, the p trap is the source of the smell, as food etc can separate out of the waste water and over a period of time will allow bacteria to acumilate a smell. I have done this conversion in many houses and cured this problem.
✔️ Yep, he explained all about the p-traps and s-traps, but he neglected to mention that the toilet bowl is also sometimes known as a p-trap(except in this case, it's a "pee trap"). 😁
The most common venting problem I've commonly seen is in otherwise properly plumbed bathrooms, the occasional kitchen, and in bar sinks: The trap dries out. Over many months or longer the water in the trap evaporates allowing the gases to pass in. If you have an unused bathroom, an empty apartment, a bar sink down in the basement that you haven't used in a while. Just set an alert on your phone for every six months or so to "Check the Traps." Then just run some water in the trap, flush the toilet. Don't forget laundry room traps that haven't been used in years. If the water is turned off. Just bring a bottle or bucket. It doesn't take much.
@@Lazarushun Satanic as this may seem, a thin layer of plant oil (sunflower) on the trap water surface helps to prevent the water to evaporate. We had this problem in a workers' changing room that was rarely used but always warm and well ventilated.
The janitor at the place I worked was complaining that the utility room where he kept his cleaning equipment smelled one day. He told me it had been doing that for months and he thought it could be dead mice but could never find any. I went down with him to check it out and all I needed was one whiff and I immediately knew what it was. I looked at the floor and saw the drain and told him to get some water and pour it in the drain. Never had the problem again.
I repaired sewer mains and services for 12 years for a large city, and every year we heard of more than one person dying somewhere working on a sewer system from inhaling poisonous sewer gases. Confined space permits along with safety equipment are now required by most cities, but someone always seems to want to take a short cut, and it can kill them.
A friend's father died because he was working on a sewer and it burst. He was covered in raw sewage as you can imagine and unfortunately he ended up getting hepatitis. This led to him getting liver cancer and unfortunately he died. So yeah human waste is nothing to mess around with. Safety first!
Yeah I work with this guy, he's my foreman. But he's a good guy and doesn't ask other people to take those risks. He usually uses an air tester now when he goes in a sewer but sometimes not. I ain't gonna lie I take some shortcuts myself sometimes but I try to keep it to dangers I can clearly see and feel and not this shit that sneaks up on you.
used to be a janitor for the local service district, got several immunizations paid for as a result. but the poor sewer crew had to get about 20 different jabs to do that work!! nope, not for me, man. don't mind jabs, I just mind dat smell! we had old old sewers, and they would overflow in people's basements and the poor lads had to go clean that up on our dime! they were lucky none of the local pipes were big enough for a human to have to get inside it.
This video only applies in the US - S traps are used elsewhere with other techniques (venting the whole system distally or wide bore pipes to prevent syphoning).
Big fan of your channel . My wife is a serial renovator. We have been reno fools for almost forty years. We do all our own work. Last year my son bought an old rough built house high up a mountain here in BC. Not occupied for ten years. Took a month to restore water from 5000 feet away from a cistern we had to hand dig. Just got back after two weeks replacing all the plumbing in the place. Your info gave us confidence we would succeed in the end. Thanks so much and keep the content coming.
As a home owner from Germany who has done some plumbing I appreciate the effort you put into your tutorials. Our home is former farm house build in the 1920s and has a dedicated septic system. The lid of this system has some holes to allow ventilation of the sewer gases. The waste water moves through three chambers before the mostly cleared gray water is pumped from the last chamber into a small pond with plants for biological reduction of the remaining substances (mostly nitrates and phosphates). Twice per year a sample of the grey water has to be tested in a lab or the home owner could lose the permit to operate such a septic system on the property.
@@oneflyinggirl If you mean about losing the system usage if it isn't properly tested and approved, I sort of get why tho, as you could just claim to do it right but it's just dumping untreated sewer into the wild, that doesn't really seem like a good idea to me.
Vented sewers seem to be a feature of Germany. Ours here in the UK, tend to be air sealed (closed manhole covers with a double point seal.) Vents tend to be at roof level or use an AAV as described in the video. I think this was to prevent smells. In my experience sewers don't actually smell too awful. it's distinctive, but not awful?
I live in Thailand where S and P traps are essential to blocking the entry of ants and other insects into living quarters. They also allow retrieval of small objects dropped accidentally into a sink or toilet.
Look, I’m a plumber, if you’re having issues with siphoning or evaporation or even pressure build up in the plumbing system that bubbles through your traps, you need to check a lot of things, the slope or grade of the plumbing, mainly that it is consistent, not up and down… the waste pipes need to be fairly clean, they can block up similar to your arteries, flow is important for pipe dynamics… The length of any waste pipe (not sewer) in my country is 3.6m from the trap to the outfall, which can be called a few names, I’ll use gully dish in my references. If you are over 3.6m you need to upsize your pipe to roughly 65mm, minimum, there’s still 80mm and 100mm in a typical home as other options, but a 65mm pipe can go 10m, you can add other fixtures to it like a bath,hand basin or laundry tub…before you need to install a vent on this waste pipe… every pipe above 65mm must be vented if it is 10m or more to the homes main drain vent, you can buy “vented traps” also, but as long as you also have a main vent on the house the drains are servicing, ie one main vent per dwelling. If you are banning ‘s-traps’ you need better plumbers, a trap is a trap, and each country has a code to how much water they shall hold. And there are also anti siphon traps for high velocity drain grades. It really is simple stuff… I’m surprised that you didn’t mention “through traps”. They are a straight piece of pipe with a rubber type hose in them, with no water at all…those should be removed, waste pipe fittings for baths and pools that are pleated plastic tubes are really bad at blocking, because the crap fills the grooves too. One more thing is there’s a limit to how deep a trap is, water can’t fall miles to the weir of the water, that will stink aswell. On top of the water could also force the trap to empty out with back siphonage.
hey *F1reguy* your knowledge seems solid but I think you are kinda missing the real point of this video, it's to let people know to beware of the 'flushing effect' and that they found that using an 'S' trap has a very high likelihood of malfunctioning so the code is against it. You seem to be arguing with the code inspector saying screw that code you just need better plumbers.. the inspector may look 'extra hard' at your work after that lol (you should be a teacher with MANY apprentices;) *'May the Flush be with you'* P.S. you don't necessarily need a 'suction effect' in an 'S' trap for malfunction, just the kinetic energy of a well vented discharge can cause a flush especially if there is a longer run from the sink to the 'S' trap, so there you go
A properly vented (aka stink pipe in Oz), designed and sized waste water reticulation system together with s-traps works perfectly and has done so for a century or more. Thankyou for the concise explanation for the uninitiated. The title of the video was very alarmist and disingenuous. Unfortunately many DIY plumbers are totally unaware of the need for traps AND proper venting. You get a 🧙♂️🧙♂️🧙♂️🧙♂️🧙♂️ score from me for your polite, concise and easily understood clarification. Birds nests on vent pipes is another common issue...... a discussion for another time. Good on yah!
@@wakeupcanadians the drain pipe could be to small or to long....dirt in the pipes....no proper ventilation.... get yourself a sifon with ventilation and you are most likely done with it
I now understand why we occasionally get septic gasses in our bathroom. I went crazy trying to figure it out, thinking our toilet wasn't seated properly or pipes weren't connected right. It turns out that our bathroom has a tub that isn't vented.
@@kevinmarken3022 The drain goes directly into the slab. The s is above the slab though. Unfortunately I don't believe there is an easy way to tie it into the vent. I'll have to look into a burp valve to see if it is practical.
@@Achiyugo Is there a Wall nearby and if there is is there a pipe inside that wall.is there a sink where you can get to the plumbing. If you can add a Burp valve under the sink it may be enough to stop the tub trap from sucking it self dry. Then again it may not but for a couple of bucks it is probably the best try you can make if it goes into a concrete floor
I worked in a lab that had 3 small sinks with aspirator faucets that nobody used anymore. We also had 5 machines in that lab that tested 10 medical gloves at a time for leaks. (Important that first responders, nursed and doctors do not contact sick patient blood!) Everyone was complaining about the stink from the glove testing machines, which seemed strange to me as I would stick my head over the tank at the bottom of the gloves being tested and it smelled like fresh water to me. After much debate and 3 meetings to determine what organism might be the culprit, I happened to be in the lab and heard a small gurgling sound. Took me a while to figure where it was coming from, but once I did the smell almost knocked me out. The water in the trap had evaporated over the years and was allowing low pressure sewer gas to vent out of these unused sinks. I filled all three sinks with water and a little cooking oil to slow down evaporation. Told my boss "I fixed the problem. No need for more meetings." LOL
The trick with oil on top is excellent. Thanks for sharing. Only one downside: fresh water pipes that are not used can grow bacteria inside. In Austria in hospitals it's mandatory that every water outlet is used at least once within 10 days.
I'm a support worker in a block of flats and we run water for 2 minutes in all the empty properties - pipes don't freeze as easily apparently and stagnant water is more at risk of legionella@@1234fishnet
Nicely done over all. Some clarification that I would like to provide though... A cheater vent or AAV does not have to be mounted above the flood level of the fixture. It does have to be mounted a minimum of 4" above the trap weir. This is at minimum true for IPC 2018 (international plumbing code 2018 revision) The reason for this is clarified when your diagram of the AAV is corrected. The open position of the AAV is the diaphragm pulling down and away from it's seat. The diaphragm (the little piece of rubber or rubberized material) that blocks the sewer gases in and is in the normally closed position and depending on the brand and age of the vent the rubber will be held in place either by its own elasticity or by a small spring. The diaphragm is able to let air in but not out when either negative or positive air pressure is applied. If you hold up an AAV to your mouth and breathe you'll find that you can only inhale and not exhale. Positive air pressure (exhaling) forces the rubber to seal itself even tighter against the plastic seat. This means that if the pipe further downstream becomes clogged and a back up is occurring then the positive pressure created simply seals the AAV even tighter. This means that the air trapped in that 4" long piece of pipe may get compressed but it is not displaced by the waste. This is called an air lock. Different AAV's are rated for different amounts of air input measures in CFM or cubic feet per minute, they are also rated for how much back pressure (positive pressure) they are able to hold back, measured in inches of water column. AAV 's do eventually fail as the rubber and/or spring wears out but they are threaded into place and thus easily replaced.
I dunno, it's incomplete localised technical knowledge, on a world wide platform. Click baiting to encourage views. But if you learn something, even if it's not entirely correct, you're still better than dead.
I believe there are much better channels run by plumbers/other qualified contractors that share relevant information with non construction related peoples
I always thought the trap was simply so you could potentially retrieve objects that might accidentally fall into the sink like a wedding ring or something. Now that you say it the sewer gas thing makes a lot of sense.
The object retrieval was a good byproduct of the main reason for the trap, blocking the gas. So it's both! I could not say if both were in the original design thought process though.
The ability to retrieve objects was the second most popular reason for the correct design...With the aforementioned "P" trap, they are gone forever...NOPE! S trap all the way right here!
I really enjoy your videos. As a plumbing instructor, I use your videos with Q&A worksheets for my high school students. These videos, combined with lecture, open response questions, and short quizzes using Kahoot really improve the educational experience for my students.
Teaching skills to HS kids is something is awesome!! they stopped doing in America a while back i have fond memories of my shop classes and what I learned thank you
@@sparkyvee I'm a plumber and we like to do the old trick for the inspector it's called throwing a dog a bone. You just leave something very obvious out for him to see first thing something you can fix right in front of him in just a few seconds. Then that relaxes them and puts them at ease in less than think they are in charge. Then they miss all the ridiculous stuff that they like to point out. Works like a charm
In our country (NZ) this is catered for by installing a terminal vent at the head of the household drain system. Appliance "S" traps are normally deep enough to not lose the seal, but if a toilet is flushed on an unvented system then the weight of the 4" flow is more than enough to empty most appliance traps in the vicinity whether S or P. Install a 4" or 3" terminal vent and all syphon problems are solved.
@@daviddou1408Dou. Neither this has been standard plumbing practice from our joint history of basing our laws on UK plumbing practice. I suspect the principal goes back to Roman times as it is so fundamental to the science of fluidics engineering.
This answers my childhood home problem. Many times the dishwasher would drain and the kitchen sink next to it would have air bubbles and bits of water come out along with a smell.
@@Alvinyokatorino, its wrong. that happens when your sewege pipe for some reason is not capable to pass the flow, the dishwasher gives. it may be because of wrong 90-turns, wrong angle of pipe, wrong diameter and lack of vent
*As somebody with no plumbing experience, I can see why that’s a problem just looking at the thumbnail, it goes down a hill, and now has to go up the hill to go down again. It’s fighting gravity.*
This is an excellent presentation and very thorough! Every home inspector should be watching this channel so that he/she can give comprehensive responses to homeowners who have questions as to why something is incorrect or requires a fix. Thumbs UP! as always!
@@jeffgravel8129 what do you mean they can't tell the homeowner why? If you're going to hire a home inspector, make sure to check their credentials. There is no governing body to hand out a license for the job, and no prerequisite qualifications, so it doesn't take much for someone to call themselves a home inspector.
@@mattjohnston2 I know a lot that know what they do. but often they just write off, not up to code and dont know the reason behind why it's not up to code. their job is to inspect and I know that they obviously dont know every trade and everything behind the code. in my opinion it's not an issue as long as they cant point out all those problem and sometime not be sure at 100%why for a few of them. this is what I meant with my comment.
Huh. I’ve seen vent pipes on roofs many times and always assumed they had an open connection into the roof space. Never suspected they were connected to the drain pipes and for this purpose. This video gave me good information that I didn’t previously have. A well earned thumbs up is in order
@Swim Fan -- Liquid water flows along the lowest path. -- Gas flows along the highest path. This is simple physics ! -- As long as the liquid can flow through the top curve, there is increasing amounts of gas in the top curve. Simple fix ! -- Gas release at the highest point in the upper curve. -- Gas release at any high points of the plumbing. -- Gas release, actually does not require piping to the roof. As gas increases fairly slowly: it can be vented into the upper parts of the room; diirectly into the sink overflow; or the cupboard, itself
Been in the HVAC business for 40 years I’ve changed out as traps for PT traps never knew why traps were outlawed in New Hampshire. Good video. Thanks for the information.❤️🔥🇺🇸
I believe the 6" above flood line of the fixture is if using the AAV as a stack vent. If you already have a stack vent an AAV can be used on an S trap and only needs to be installed 4" above the top of the trap which should be able to go inside the vanity cabinet under the countertop. That is if your municipality allows AAVs. Many are just behind the times and don't care to change. Mine are working just fine.
This Florida county allows just that. The valve is under the sink, but there is a conventional vent through the roof in the system. The valves do sometimes malfunction, however, even though the manufacturer claims they cannot.
It was mentioned that if the vent would not seal and leak, it would be a mess and cause gas leakage. If it would be 6" above the sink, chances are it would not leak because of backup and therefore would be a much better installation.
The reason they aren't allowed is because they require to be changed from time to time and most homeowners don't even know what one is, let alone realizing it needs to be replaced
Wow, this just explained why my one bathroom smells when ever the water is running. 1950s plumbing, sink still has an S-trap. Whole house shares one vent.
That is a standard plumbing system in the U.S.A. (well on the east coast that is) One(1) Vent through the roof that is 3+ inches in diameter that all pluming fixtures are connected to. Also most are the P trap type, depending on the state and town / city the construction codes vary so much, where I am, I learned that as long as a 120+ yr old house is kept with all four walls intact or at least one or two walls?, then it still gets grandfathered under the law that is in place for that town / city.
@@SgtDreTecKeGamer Pretty sure it's just a single wall, but maybe that also varies by state. I was touristing through Boston with my wife a couple years ago, and saw a building across the street and a block south of the Aquarium completely demolished except for a lone brick wall (which looked very precarious, standing there all by itself). They later built a new building on the old footprint, incorporating that remaining wall. "Just a reno. No new buildings here".
In a 70s apt here, can't say I'm looking forward to the day they have to re-do those pipes considering how much I hate the changes they made to my shower fixtures when those pipes sprung a leak.
Good explanation of the system that will help many folks. A couple comments - bath and kitchen sink plumbing is usually 1-1/4" tough on our last house I did a mod to the tail pieces to the 2" wall drain piping. Secondly, I would be surprised if an 'S' Trap system on a reasonably new house wouldn't have DWV plumbing to the roof or at least a properly sited DWV such as the Oatey you showed that would prevent siphoning of the trap water
WOW! Fantastic information. We built our home "off grid", with absolutely no knowledge, about 35 years ago (before the internet). No permits, no inspections, no brains. We had a problem with gasses from my septic system when we used our washing machine. I eventually got it fixed, but I never realized what was exactly happening..... but I did get it right.
Knew about a house sold. 2nd buyer, could smell something bad from one of the bathrooms. Here it was a sealed vent on the roof that wasn't taken off after the build. Easy fix. Thanks for the video
They're not "illegal" - they're a violation of plumbing code. Having or installing one doesn't break laws, it would just prevent you from getting certain permits until it's replaced.
What he said: "Excellent video. You not only explain the situation, but options on how to resolve." I had not heard S-traps were not allowed; thank you.
As an Australian licensed plumber I can refer you to Australian standard 3500 S traps I use university in Australia with no problems provided the standard is followed with the correct size for the number of fixture unit
'S' traps are common in the UK, especially under kitchen and bathroom sinks. I'm not a pro but am an experienced DIYer, but I've never heard of any problems with them. Then again, we don't have the same strict codes here. Lots to think about though; as usual the most informative plumbing video on the subject. 👍 🇬🇧
It's common to run the tap when we empty a sink, refilling the reservoir, it's also common for us to wash our hands after using the toilet here, refilling the reservoir.
S traps will mostly be found on older builds and kitchen sinks, using the syphon to help empty the kitchen sink, especially of matter, like food, then we clean the sink, refilling the reservoir. Pot and P traps are more common here now, while baths and showers might have a waterless mechanical trap.
Here in Australia we also use S traps in bathrooms and kitchens, there might be another trap outside like the vented ones attached to this system, never really looked, but as far as I know S traps are not illegal.
This is literally the first time seeing something under the sink that wasn’t an S trap. I really need to renovate. This is why I tend to plug the drains
Nice vid as usual. In the UK, plumbing is different, every house has a 4" vented pipe extended 1m above the highest window, into which all other connections are made, preventing any pressure / gas build-up from the mains. Obviously in a crowded city with old buildings in the US, that is hard to achieve.
I'm in the UK and we have a vented soil pipe on outside wall, through the eaves. But we're getting sewage gases in our upstairs bathroom in the evening when we flush the toilet and run taps. Sink waste is not physically connected outside to the vented pipe so I don't think that is the culprit. Could he coming through shower waste though 🤷♂️ We had a plumber suggest and install some waterless traps which have not made any difference.
@@RobinCawser Try capping the each drain and checking the following day to determine the source. To test the toilet seal, tape the toilet base to the floor.
@@RobinCawser Waterless traps, or "elastomeric traps" virtually can't fail. they're like the "reed" part of a whoopee cushion inside, allowing water to pass, yet closing tighter under pressure to prevent passage of sewer gases. They just have to be fitted right way round (the arrow helps) and, if fitted in a "horizontal" (waste pipes ought to have a fall) pipe, have to be fitted right way up. Assuming it's fitted correctly, hasn't been damaged, it'll work. If your basin/sink waste is teed into the shower waste, there's a good chance that, despite the elastomeric trap being fitted to the basin waste, the trap water in the shower waste is being drawn out when you empty the basin. Simple check... After the last person uses the basin at night, tip some water into the shower waste, ensuring it's full. If there's no smell in the morning, and no one's got up in the night, it's your culprit. If you can't discipline the others in your household to not get up, tape over the shower waste with packing tape or duct tape. If the smell's not present in the morning, you know that it's the shower waste that's the issue.
If you use a large 4-in vent to tie onto a vent like that only works within a 4-ft to 6 ft away from each fixture anything longer than that will not work properly.
@@toddlenard7602 Oh? With 1 1/2" pipe, or go up to 1 3/4" shouldn't be a problem, esp if you use a trap with an air admittance valve. I've never had a problem, only had to replace pipes with larger diameter. 👍
Tyvm for this video. Very well spoken & presented in a way even I, whose plumbing experience deals with a plunger, a can of draino or digging longdrops out the back for my grandfather. He liked to change HIS thrones location, yes he built an actual throne for his outhouse. Now that man could do anything to do with a house. I miss that crazy bugger. I don't miss his pet snake that lived in the outhouse tho lol.
Just pinging on this, 70's house with an AAV under the kitchen sink. Was getting smells, thought it was garbage disposal until I tracked it down to the AAV stuck in open position. Replaced it with another AAV, definitely an easy fix but they do fail unfortunately...
Haven’t had issues with AAVs not passing inspection in Northeast Indiana. Still using S-traps at home because I’m lazy, but being in an old farm house, the sewer and gray water systems are completely separate.
When I purchased a home with some plumbing issues, it taught me a lot about plumbing. The most important thing I learned was that any time that water in your pipes needs to go down, you need another pipe to go up to vent it. If your plumbing isn’t properly vented, you will hear and hear it gurgling and glugging as the air that the water displaces on it’s way down makes it back up through the path of least resistance. It makes perfect sense if you consider the fact that it’s the same reason you can put your finger over the tip of a straw, and the liquid from your beverage will remain locked in place until you release it. Knowing this explains why siphons work, and more importantly why shotgunning a beer works. It’s also why you need to let the air settle out if a beer bong before it will work, if you don’t you will choke on air and beer and look silly. Once you’ve bled the system and relaxed your throat, the power of gravity and hydraulic pressure will power that beer down your throat faster than you can even think about swallowing or choking. Another cool trick is to use a long bendy straw with a glass bottle. You put the long end down to then bottom, then you form a seal around the top with your finger wrapped around the opening and the small end of the straw. If the straw is long enough, you’ll be able to chug that bottle way faster than any of your friends, and look like a genius. So, anybody who tells you that drinking a beer with a straw isn’t cool or manly, then tell them that they’re just doing it wrong, and if you’re in a winning mood, bet them that you can drink a beer with a straw faster than they can without one. Once you used this trick to make them look foolish, you can laugh in their face and yell “SCIENCE!” before collecting your winnings.
if you need to, rather than use a vent you can simply make the volume on the upswing of the s significantly larger than the following down swing. while it will still gurgle, it will retain enough water to seal the trap, the major flaw is that it reduces the velocity of the water so it is more likely to clog, and it is much more difficult to clean if it does clog, but it does work, particularly in places with no other practical options.
@@vidard9863 regardless of the trap design, you still need a vent, and it's still not a good idea to do something that "theoretically works" because unless you tested every edge case scenario, and have 100% certainty that it's just as good as doing it properly--you're inevitably going to encounter one of those weird edge cases in the wild, and it's going to bite you in the ass. I do thinks the proper way, even though it takes longer, because every time I ever tried to cut corners, the benefits of doing it never outweighed the pain in the ass of having to re-do it.
@@kernelpickle meh, having a few which seem to still be working over ten years later i am not worried about it, and given that the cost of " doing it right " would pretty much be tearing it down and building a new house, due to the regulations, on the day that edge case happens.... it probably won't be worth changing. also learn how to read. "if you need to" does not mean " do this first. "
Thanks an awful lot. I recently bought my first home and every bit of information I can get is helpful! Hope you had a merry christmas, have a happy New Year
I believe there has been a change in the plumbing code that allows the s-trap if the 1 1/2" pipe goes into a 2" vertical, as that would break the siphon.
Thanks for the information. I am a 'diy' homeowner that has rarely experienced the positive motivation you get from getting it right the first time. The mechanical principles of design tend to elude me and your video simplified so much.
Great video. Although I can't speak for the whole of the UK, I can say that all the houses and flats I've lived in or know, have no direct link between the domestic waste water, i.e. from sinks and baths/showers and foul waste, i.e. toilets. Each of these facilities drain seperately out of a home with the two independant flows only coming together in an inspection chamber below ground level away from the house.
Every lavatory I've ever seen has an S-trap, yet, despite the very rapid flow rate, never siphons all the water out of the bottom section, nor does it siphon all the water out of S-trap on the adjacent sink. In all the places I've lived, the only things fitted with a P-trap have been showers, where there isn't enough depth below the shower tray for a S-trap - and I've never had a problem with sewer gases coming up the pipe.
IF your tube coming out of the S-trap is twice the area or bigger than the pipe coming into the S-trap it will be no problem either... Try it, you can never make a siphon if the outlet pipe is twice or bigger than the inlet pipe...
@@ede-armond476 The outlet pipe must be of at least twice the area all the way to a ventilated pipe. This is as soon as the pipe have an inflow that is higher then the outflow a siphoning effect can occur. So even a restriction prior to just leaving the S-trap solves the issue. Test for your self, as soon as you fully understand how siphones work you will never have the issue anymore.
But you are not allowed to reduce the size of the sewer line at any point so if you can’t simply insert an oversized S trap and connect it to a smaller Lin downstream.
I find this very odd. The large S trap diameter has numerous benefits. ONE: the flow rate due to the syphon effect is low and although it will suck neutral buoyancy objects down the drain, heavy objects such as rings etc will tend to 'levitate in the up leg and sink back down once the flow stops (hence the access plug at the base of the S bend). TWO: The syphon is only effective whilst there is water in the sink. Once the water level reaches the base of the first down leg, air from the house will be 'sucked' into the drain. This air quickly bypasses the water in the up leg (hence the gurgle) breaking the vacuum (syphon). THIRD: Now that the vacuum (syphon) is brocken the bypassed water in the up leg will fall back into the bend. The volume of water that falls back must be enough to fill the bottom of the trap to prevent gases entering the house. If you find that the syphon is so strong and gasses do come back then all you have to do is (A), slow the flow rate leaving the sink by inserting a larger grill or grid plate at the bottom of the sink, or (B)insert a linear length of pipe (these days PVC) in the up leg. This will hold more water during the syphon breaking to flow back down into the trap.
This is a good explanation and I didn't know the connection between the greedy glass and traps. The diagrams make it clear. Methane is considered non-toxic; you may have meant hydrogen sulfide, the chief concern in sewage venting. Ammonia is toxic in high amounts. Methane can still be dangerous if it ignites, or if there's enough to displace the oxygen in an area. Carbon dioxide can also build up and displace oxygen, but really if you have that much methane or carbon dioxide you're probably going to smell the hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg or boggy smell), since our noses are generally highly sensitive to sulfur compounds. I will just add that I knew nothing about plumbing and watched some other Got2Learn videos before installing my own water heater. The videos really taught me a lot and the water heater has done great for many months now. The videos about recommended tools and tips & tricks were very helpful, as I had no experience going in.
I always thought the “S” was there just in case you dropped your wedding ring in the sink while washing your hands. lol. I did know about the vent to the roof. My dad used to run a high pressure garden hose down it to unclog a clog between the sink and the Septic tank. I grew up on a ranch and My father never called a plumber or any repair man for anything.. He just figured it out fixed it, or built it. I was a very lucky kid to be his helper. Having learned from the best. I have never had to call a repair man either. I must admit though of all the trades, plumbing is my least favorite thing to work on. It always seems like whatever you replace you end up going back to the hardware store to buy the part next to it. Then you go out back to the hardware store again to buy the part next to the part you just went back to the hardware store for. And on and on it goes... Perhaps this TH-cam channel will change all this. THUMBS UP!
So in your first sentence you say you didn't understand what the trap was for then proceed to say what a lucky child you were for growing up with such a "handy" father to gleen knowledge from ? Ok....sure ?!
@@666zombee In the first sentence I was making a joke about the traps purpose. Note the .”lol” at the end of the sentence. Duh! Do they have jokes where you come from? Or did it just completely go over your head. Or were you just looking to insult somebody because it makes you feel better because you have low self-esteem.
strictly speaking, a p-trap is not necessarily vented. the vent is not the differentiator between a P or S trap. If you have a P-trap, it certainly SHOULD be vented, though.
In the video he does state that a S trap is more likely to be "flushed dry" because the velocity of the flush going downward will pull more water out the trap as when going sideways. (Though I doubt, because the S-trap seems higher also). But your point is right in which he makes it look as if P traps are always vented.
An unvented or improperly vented p-trap is functionally identical to an s trap as the drain would be drop at some point, if only for pitch. Once the drain drops below the water level of the p-trap without being vented, you for all intents and purposes have an s-trap.
@@uwubermensch8636 no, an unvented p trap is worse. Proper S traps work because the 2nd curve is higher than the equilibrium point, so when the water level in the pipe before the first bend has decreased enough to allow air to pass, the suction is lost and the remaining fluid in the vertical section between the first and second curves is released and backslides, and it is enough to settle at a level higher than the equilibrium point meaning no more air may pass. S traps work just fine as a result provided they are tall enough. Basically the volume above the first curve equilibrium point going to the 2nd curve equilibrium point must be greater than the volume under the 1st curve equilibrium point. A p trap though has no elevated 2nd curve, so the equilibrium point at the 90 is the highest the water ever goes, so when the suction releases, there's little water to backslide and gases will not be stopped for long before it evaporates. This is assuming the p trap does not have a straight vertical section after the curve, as if it did, it is basically an s trap.
Geez plumbing, what an amazing thing. You don’t care as a child, teenager or even a young adult but as a provider it is imperative to keep the plumbing in good working condition.
Where exactly are "S" traps illegal or "Not Allowed"? I've been a plumber for a lot of years now and I've never heard of this "law". As far as I know, both types are "allowed" and they both have to be installed correctly to work properly no matter where they are located. Proper venting of a sewer system is the key to making them work properly.
I'm licensed in 2 states... And S traps are ILLEGAL in BOTH! And both states are based on two completely different codes! One is based on the Universal code and the other is based on International code. Obviously I can't comment on EVERY jurisdiction, but I'm pretty sure it's completely illegal where you are. Either you are a total hack or carpenter pretending to be a plumber.
@@DrScott666, I ask a simple question and you act like a 12-year-old getting defensive and calling names. It makes you look like you are the hack spouting off about things you know nothing about. And you didn't answer my question, nice deflection.
Most municipalities won't allow S-traps unless you vent them, for reasons already stated in the video. You don't want a house to stink because of sewer gases creeping in, do you?
@@cameraredeye3115, Over the last 40+ years I've installed hundreds if not thousands of S traps, and those along with the ones in my own house have never caused any problems or allowed any sewer gasses to pass through. Properly installed to a well-vented system, they are not an issue. I'm beginning to think it's all a hack perpetrated by unscrupulous people to just wrangle more money out of others.
Perfect timing for this video! I have exactly this problem. My landlord did a renovation before I moved in and he did not vent the drain pipe for the kitchen sink. I did not know that aav's existed and will add one immediately.
@@PyroShim - for many reasons, depending on the location. Some code enforcement departments are old fashioned and don’t trust them. Some point out that they rarely are installed according to the acceptable installation directives in the plumbing codes. Some have adopted an international plumbing code that prohibits them, so the municipality does not itself prohibit by their own decision.
I enjoy seeing how different country's do things. I'm a plumber in Australia, our sewerage systems work a bit differently to yours, we are still allowed to use S traps but have restrictions on how far they can drop. Also interesting, we are allowed to install AAV's up to 1 meter (40 inches) below the flood level of the lowest fixture.
" we are allowed to install AAV's up to 1 meter (40 inches) below the flood level of the lowest fixture." Almost like you'd rather encourage people to improve their plumbing instead of leaving it broken but compliant with old code, explosive/toxic gases and all.
@@443DM There is no issues with our AAV's being installed this way. They are designed to be able to withstand in excess of 1 meter of static head. To be sold in Australia they must be compliant with that law. However, I do dislike AAV's and try to never install them on new builds or high end renos. Nothing beats a proper atmosphere vent.
Hi. Nicely done and explained.I live in germany an our main pipe has always a vent which goes up through the roof. we use s-traps, but right after the s the pipe (arm??) is bigger than the pipes you use for the actual s, so the arm will never completly filled with water and gets his air from the main housepipe to keep the water flowing without draining the s. so if your s-pipes are 1 1/2" the arm needs to be at least 2"( just as an example) i hope i explained it well enough to understand what i mean.
The information presented here is in compliance with the IPC and IAPMO (plumbing codes). Adopted building codes not only vary from state-to-state, but more importantly, jurisdiction-to-jurisdiction (counties, cities and towns within each state). I am a building inspector (not a "home inspector"). I was also a master plumber.
I have learned something and when I get home I will check my pipes. I thought the smells were a build up of gunk, but now I think not. More work for me now. Grrrr
I remember in the 1990's when the manhole covers used to smoke in Harlem, NYC. And some people said that the covers would blow off as well. I used to wonder why this was.
My fiancée was a Union electrician and he said a lot if manholes have really high voltage wires in them like 50 000 volts or more and when they blow its a lot of power released!Writing this on Mother's Day 2021 stay safe people and God bless America!
I'd never thought much about this issue, but I can see now how ignorant I was. Thank you from a Scotsman in Aberdeenshire, who loves the idea of Plumbing Gods ! (Best not to p**s them off, they are always going to vent in spectacular fashion ! ;-) )
In China, they don't use the S-trap nor P-trap in any bathroom sink or shower. So everyone is just used to all bathrooms reeking like shit, it's just normal. "It's what a bathroom is supposed to smell like"
The AAV is only required to be 4" above the invent of the trap arm, the 6" above flood level rim Code is that you cannot run Horizonal vent lines until you exceed those 6".
S-trap or P-trap is a clever device (or way of connection) to address the foul air issue effectively. It's never banned. If you're living in a multi-floor apartment, you'll probably see a separate vent pipe going from ground to roof in the pipe shaft. This main vent pipe is for your household traps, be it floor trap, basin trap or WC's sub-vent to connect to, so that the pressure fluctuation and siphonage issues are addressed. For standalone houses, pipe venting is not essential so long as you are aware all the floor traps and basin traps are constantly filled with water. Since basin is a frequently used apparatus, there is no worry of the trap being dry. And if your basin trap discharges to the floor trap, this makes the floor trap wet too.
This was interesting! I now have to check my pipes! But in the end , sewer gases are going through my plumping eventually leading outside. My house farts!!🤭!♻️ thank you!😎😂
We have a vacation house that is 250 miles away. It didn't get used for about a year. We arrived once and smelled sewer gasses inside the house. After running the water in one of the 2 sinks in the larger bathroom, I could hear the water draining and echoing in the other sink. I knew right away that the water had evaporated from the P-trap and allowed gasses back in. So every time we leave the place now, we run water in all of the sinks as it could be months before we return.
Something else you can do, is poor little bit of vegetable oil or mineral oil of some kind into your drains, because then the water can't evaporate below the oil.
@@user-oc6qs1po3j Ha! The cure in my case is to stop helping everyone for free, take some time off, then go down to that place and enjoy the beach every few months.
Yeah, so I'm thinking US plumbing is a little different to Kiwi plumbing. Show me a house that doesn't have a P or S trap, regardless of whether the fittings are vented not. I'm guessing it's coz we incorporate a 'stink pipe' on the toilet waste, right?
@@richardbaron7106 same throughout whole europe...and i never heart of any explosions...american continent must be so different to the rest of the world...
Awesome content! Never thought I would be so interested in plumbing. It has helped me with a ton of projects at home and at work. Your videos have helped me make my plumbing work look super professional. Keep it up!
4:05 I think the 6" above the fixture flood level is for normal venting. If AAVs are allowed in your area, you would go by the manufactors instructions. 4" above the waste arm is normal for AAVs. This allows for them to be tucked up into a normal sink cabinet, and allows for them to be unscrewed and changed for maintenance.
i have a regular toilet, bath/shower, sink combo in the bathroom. normal sink. looks like all of that vents up to the attic. then, I have a laundry room at the back of the house, and beside my washer/dryer hookup, a few inches (maybe 4 maybe 6) above and to the left, is one of these vents with the white box/cover thing mounted recessed into my wall.
If I had the money I would design a house that allowed easy access to all the plumbing works. I would do this through different ways such as cleverly disguised access panel, positioning walk in closets on the back side of where the plumbing works are located or even a plumbing chase hallway like I saw in a library when I use to do contracted work there.
I see ... Interesting, never heard of most of this stuff as a builder, even from a plumber teaching me things. I was wonder why I had not heard about how they handle the general system and why sewer systems have issues. But I see why after watching this whole thing. Fortunately my local system uses isolation, so this is less of a concern but makes sense, it also explains why some P traps have such weird attachments.
Join my plumbing forum for free: got2learn.freeforums.net/
Dude would never join, you did not just say why they are not allowed instead the video was about how they work.
@@myturn9431 they aren't allowed because they let toxic gases into the house.
I’m a teenager who has never done anything even related to plumbing in the past, watching this at 12 am with 2 assignments that I need to do
Sounds like you are ready for your residential plumbing license in that case....
Eat the F, become a plumber. The world needs tradesmen not another desk jockey
Dude your whole username extends out past the other video suggestions on the other side of the screen. Nice
I remember those procrastination days. good luck
same
"Is plumbing one of your interests?"
"Nope"
"Wanna se how to properly syphoning your drainage pipes?"
"Oh you know me so well, dear algorithm!"
Edit: for who did not catch it, it was implied that indeed I liked the suggestion, watched and liked the video, otherwise why bother to comment on it! 😁
same here, but now, plumbering is one of my interests...
@@ffccardoso I was going to say, I think the algorithm might know Luca more than they know themself...
Yet here we are...
Rule #1 of plumbing. The B is silent.
More like:
"Is plumbing one of your interests?"
"Nope"
"Well, now it is"
In Finland, a special odor trap is used in toilet sinks, which is based on the s-trap, but the old s-trap is still used in the kitchen sink because it helps keep warm-seeking bugs and insects out of the house. Instead, installing pipes inside the walls should be avoided, because it is a risk of water damage if the pipe starts to leak or crack, allowing moisture to ruin the wall structures and insulation.
Yeah, we have S traps built into most toilets in the US too
TLDR: people in Finland have potent waste gasses.
@@whocaresguy We builded like this in our new house build is convenient and safe
In Canada we avoid putting pipes of any kind in exterior walls. Wet walls (walls containing plumbing) tend to be interior.
Americans only use drywall, so they don't really know any better
2:37 Neat fact, this vent that goes to your roof and lets fresh air into the system is the reason why you sometimes see the water in your toilet bowl sloshing around when it's windy outside. I always wondered why that happens, so I looked it up a few years ago.
If the wind if fast enough, some of the water gets sucked out of the toilet bowl. My wife and I were wondering if our toilet had some sort of a leak since the water in the bowl would go down. It turned out we were just having crazy winds that day (yesterday).
We had hurricane-force winds here in Atlanta when Hurricane Irma came up through several years ago. During these winds, it was fascinating watching the toilet water slosh around LOL And as @Duane Degn mentioned, sometimes the water would get sucked out totally.
No! you're being haunted! 👻
@@MangaGamified I always suspected I was being haunted by a toilet-ghost. Now I know. Thank's for clearing that up. I guess this confirms my supsicions that it's a gateway to another dimension.
Our toilet doubles as an anemometer.
You can also smell sewer gases in a bathroom that may not be used often (like a guest bathroom) when the water in the trap evaporates.
I cant attest to this. I stayed in a house recently that was not occupied for sometime and I could smell sewer gas strongly in the house, especially near the sinks, toilets and tubs. So I aired the place out and ran water in all the drains. It still smelled though because the stench had permeated the fabrics of the carpets and furniture.
@Schrodinger's Snuffleupagus In California public restrooms, floor drains are required to have trap-primers, to occasionally put a small amount of water down the floor drain automatically. I used to think they were overkill till I started noticing the same problem in my quest bathroom's shower drain.
@Schrodinger's Snuffleupagus In Europe, especially Scandinavia, holiday homes are commonplace; we have ours in France although we live in Wales, an overnight ferry boat ride away. Its normal to not visit for a couple of months at a time, and this last year during travel restrictions its been even longer. There is a ritual to arriving that includes running all water systems for ten minutes to avoid danger from Legionaires disease incubating in the hot water system, as well as to flush down the drainage system. Evaporation from the traps is very common after several months dis-use. First world problems, as they say.
i thought that only happened to me....
An easy fix is to just pour some water into the toilet/sink/shower.
From an ex-plumber, you did a outstanding job explaining this subject. Keep it up!
Thank you!!!!
Thank you for your service!!! 🙏🤜🤛
@@Got2Learn Do you think that AAV could work for me?
I have an issue in my kitchen that always seems to smell and I tried everything (99% sure it comes from the sewer). I have a P-Trap and I asked the landlord if he can check the vent (at least the outlet on the roof) if it's s clogged, but he didnt wanna do it, downplaying it. There is always water in the P-Trap yet it stinks so I really am confused how that is possible for fumes to come out of the sewer. All the installation is behind drywall with tiles on it, so the options to do anything there are practically limited and theoretically I am not allowed to anyway. Mind you, the bathroom which is opposite room of the kitchen smells like roses, even though it should probably drain to the same pipes.
@@maxmeier532 see my post, replace the p trap with an s trap, the p trap is the source of the smell, as food etc can separate out of the waste water and over a period of time will allow bacteria to acumilate a smell. I have done this conversion in many houses and cured this problem.
✔️ Yep, he explained all about the p-traps and s-traps, but he neglected to mention that the toilet bowl is also sometimes known as a p-trap(except in this case, it's a "pee trap"). 😁
I’m going to get right on this in my home after I get my solar powered doorknobs installed.
Or the minute your wife starts to complain about the smell of sewer gas in her bathroom.
Don’t forget to use your solar powered flashlight to see under the sink when you fix it.
@@carlanw in my 53 years of life I've never smelled sewer gas coming out of a sink with an s-trap 🤷
@@stringsattached67 I don't understand your point? Are you saying that venting is unnecessary and s traps are just fine in every application?
@@carlanw nope I'm saying I've never had an issue with sewer gas smells from s trap's
The most common venting problem I've commonly seen is in otherwise properly plumbed bathrooms, the occasional kitchen, and in bar sinks: The trap dries out. Over many months or longer the water in the trap evaporates allowing the gases to pass in. If you have an unused bathroom, an empty apartment, a bar sink down in the basement that you haven't used in a while. Just set an alert on your phone for every six months or so to "Check the Traps." Then just run some water in the trap, flush the toilet. Don't forget laundry room traps that haven't been used in years. If the water is turned off. Just bring a bottle or bucket. It doesn't take much.
You can use an oil instead of the water. ;)
@@dawid875 Thanks Satan
@@Lazarushun Satanic as this may seem, a thin layer of plant oil (sunflower) on the trap water surface helps to prevent the water to evaporate. We had this problem in a workers' changing room that was rarely used but always warm and well ventilated.
👍 Yep... I didn't think to check the laundry drain, and that was the cause of a smell for some weeks.
The janitor at the place I worked was complaining that the utility room where he kept his cleaning equipment smelled one day. He told me it had been doing that for months and he thought it could be dead mice but could never find any. I went down with him to check it out and all I needed was one whiff and I immediately knew what it was. I looked at the floor and saw the drain and told him to get some water and pour it in the drain. Never had the problem again.
I do think my old house had this problem and never figured out how bad smells came out of the pipe. Thank you.
"See, Hon? I told you it was the plumbing!"
Same here, and here I was being so ignorant as to think it was somehow the water smelling like sewage...
I repaired sewer mains and services for 12 years for a large city, and every year we heard of more than one person dying somewhere working on a sewer system from inhaling poisonous sewer gases. Confined space permits along with safety equipment are now required by most cities, but someone always seems to want to take a short cut, and it can kill them.
A friend's father died because he was working on a sewer and it burst. He was covered in raw sewage as you can imagine and unfortunately he ended up getting hepatitis. This led to him getting liver cancer and unfortunately he died.
So yeah human waste is nothing to mess around with. Safety first!
Yeah I work with this guy, he's my foreman. But he's a good guy and doesn't ask other people to take those risks. He usually uses an air tester now when he goes in a sewer but sometimes not. I ain't gonna lie I take some shortcuts myself sometimes but I try to keep it to dangers I can clearly see and feel and not this shit that sneaks up on you.
used to be a janitor for the local service district, got several immunizations paid for as a result. but the poor sewer crew had to get about 20 different jabs to do that work!! nope, not for me, man. don't mind jabs, I just mind dat smell! we had old old sewers, and they would overflow in people's basements and the poor lads had to go clean that up on our dime! they were lucky none of the local pipes were big enough for a human to have to get inside it.
Ain't no way bro said pithagoreus
That hurt my soul.
@@Naymy lol glad I'm not the only one
I was desperately looking for this comment hoping someone had already said it ☠️
Thank God
I hope to God bro used an AI to read the script...
This video only applies in the US - S traps are used elsewhere with other techniques (venting the whole system distally or wide bore pipes to prevent syphoning).
Big fan of your channel . My wife is a serial renovator. We have been reno fools for almost forty years. We do all our own work. Last year my son bought an old rough built house high up a mountain here in BC. Not occupied for ten years. Took a month to restore water from 5000 feet away from a cistern we had to hand dig. Just got back after two weeks replacing all the plumbing in the place. Your info gave us confidence we would succeed in the end. Thanks so much and keep the content coming.
Awesome, keep serial renovating 🤘🤘🤘
1:34 "Pitha gore us"? Made me laugh, but there's some good info here.
I think robots read a lot of vowels into things!! I too, laughed!!
“Pita Gore Us”
The predecessor to Sew-crates, from Bill and Ted.
As a home owner from Germany who has done some plumbing I appreciate the effort you put into your tutorials. Our home is former farm house build in the 1920s and has a dedicated septic system. The lid of this system has some holes to allow ventilation of the sewer gases. The waste water moves through three chambers before the mostly cleared gray water is pumped from the last chamber into a small pond with plants for biological reduction of the remaining substances (mostly nitrates and phosphates). Twice per year a sample of the grey water has to be tested in a lab or the home owner could lose the permit to operate such a septic system on the property.
😇😇😇
One's "Small Pond" is another's swimming hole
@@oneflyinggirl If you mean about losing the system usage if it isn't properly tested and approved, I sort of get why tho, as you could just claim to do it right but it's just dumping untreated sewer into the wild, that doesn't really seem like a good idea to me.
Vented sewers seem to be a feature of Germany. Ours here in the UK, tend to be air sealed (closed manhole covers with a double point seal.) Vents tend to be at roof level or use an AAV as described in the video. I think this was to prevent smells. In my experience sewers don't actually smell too awful. it's distinctive, but not awful?
@@TheChipmunk2008 I haven't found a nice smelling sewer yet.
I live in Thailand where S and P traps are essential to blocking the entry of ants and other insects into living quarters. They also allow retrieval of small objects dropped accidentally into a sink or toilet.
Look, I’m a plumber, if you’re having issues with siphoning or evaporation or even pressure build up in the plumbing system that bubbles through your traps, you need to check a lot of things, the slope or grade of the plumbing, mainly that it is consistent, not up and down…
the waste pipes need to be fairly clean, they can block up similar to your arteries, flow is important for pipe dynamics…
The length of any waste pipe (not sewer) in my country is 3.6m from the trap to the outfall, which can be called a few names, I’ll use gully dish in my references.
If you are over 3.6m you need to upsize your pipe to roughly 65mm, minimum, there’s still 80mm and 100mm in a typical home as other options, but a 65mm pipe can go 10m, you can add other fixtures to it like a bath,hand basin or laundry tub…before you need to install a vent on this waste pipe… every pipe above 65mm must be vented if it is 10m or more to the homes main drain vent, you can buy “vented traps” also, but as long as you also have a main vent on the house the drains are servicing, ie one main vent per dwelling.
If you are banning ‘s-traps’ you need better plumbers, a trap is a trap, and each country has a code to how much water they shall hold. And there are also anti siphon traps for high velocity drain grades. It really is simple stuff… I’m surprised that you didn’t mention “through traps”. They are a straight piece of pipe with a rubber type hose in them, with no water at all…those should be removed, waste pipe fittings for baths and pools that are pleated plastic tubes are really bad at blocking, because the crap fills the grooves too.
One more thing is there’s a limit to how deep a trap is, water can’t fall miles to the weir of the water, that will stink aswell. On top of the water could also force the trap to empty out with back siphonage.
what if you have what you think is a p-trap and you're smelling a bad smell coming from your drain????
hey *F1reguy* your knowledge seems solid but I think you are kinda missing the real point of this video, it's to let people know to beware of the 'flushing effect' and that they found that using an 'S' trap has a very high likelihood of malfunctioning so the code is against it. You seem to be arguing with the code inspector saying screw that code you just need better plumbers.. the inspector may look 'extra hard' at your work after that lol (you should be a teacher with MANY apprentices;) *'May the Flush be with you'* P.S. you don't necessarily need a 'suction effect' in an 'S' trap for malfunction, just the kinetic energy of a well vented discharge can cause a flush especially if there is a longer run from the sink to the 'S' trap, so there you go
A properly vented (aka stink pipe in Oz), designed and sized waste water reticulation system together with s-traps works perfectly and has done so for a century or more.
Thankyou for the concise explanation for the uninitiated. The title of the video was very alarmist and disingenuous.
Unfortunately many DIY plumbers are totally unaware of the need for traps AND proper venting.
You get a 🧙♂️🧙♂️🧙♂️🧙♂️🧙♂️ score from me for your polite, concise and easily understood clarification.
Birds nests on vent pipes is another common issue...... a discussion for another time.
Good on yah!
@@wakeupcanadians
the drain pipe could be to small or to long....dirt in the pipes....no proper ventilation....
get yourself a sifon with ventilation and you are most likely done with it
@@wakeupcanadians, is there a toilet nearby?
I now understand why we occasionally get septic gasses in our bathroom. I went crazy trying to figure it out, thinking our toilet wasn't seated properly or pipes weren't connected right. It turns out that our bathroom has a tub that isn't vented.
@youtube name And here I was thinking the sink was clogged all along!
Can you reach the tub drain from the basement and how close is the nearest vent pipe
If you can reach the drain pipe. There is what is called a burp valve that most homeowners can put in themselves. Licensed plumbers cannot
@@kevinmarken3022 The drain goes directly into the slab. The s is above the slab though. Unfortunately I don't believe there is an easy way to tie it into the vent. I'll have to look into a burp valve to see if it is practical.
@@Achiyugo Is there a Wall nearby and if there is is there a pipe inside that wall.is there a sink where you can get to the plumbing. If you can add a Burp valve under the sink it may be enough to stop the tub trap from sucking it self dry. Then again it may not but for a couple of bucks it is probably the best try you can make if it goes into a concrete floor
I worked in a lab that had 3 small sinks with aspirator faucets that nobody used anymore. We also had 5 machines in that lab that tested 10 medical gloves at a time for leaks. (Important that first responders, nursed and doctors do not contact sick patient blood!) Everyone was complaining about the stink from the glove testing machines, which seemed strange to me as I would stick my head over the tank at the bottom of the gloves being tested and it smelled like fresh water to me. After much debate and 3 meetings to determine what organism might be the culprit, I happened to be in the lab and heard a small gurgling sound. Took me a while to figure where it was coming from, but once I did the smell almost knocked me out. The water in the trap had evaporated over the years and was allowing low pressure sewer gas to vent out of these unused sinks. I filled all three sinks with water and a little cooking oil to slow down evaporation.
Told my boss "I fixed the problem. No need for more meetings." LOL
The trick with oil on top is excellent. Thanks for sharing.
Only one downside: fresh water pipes that are not used can grow bacteria inside. In Austria in hospitals it's mandatory that every water outlet is used at least once within 10 days.
I'm a support worker in a block of flats and we run water for 2 minutes in all the empty properties - pipes don't freeze as easily apparently and stagnant water is more at risk of legionella@@1234fishnet
Should just pour water down every few months instead of adding oil.
Nicely done over all.
Some clarification that I would like to provide though... A cheater vent or AAV does not have to be mounted above the flood level of the fixture.
It does have to be mounted a minimum of 4" above the trap weir.
This is at minimum true for IPC 2018 (international plumbing code 2018 revision)
The reason for this is clarified when your diagram of the AAV is corrected. The open position of the AAV is the diaphragm pulling down and away from it's seat.
The diaphragm (the little piece of rubber or rubberized material) that blocks the sewer gases in and is in the normally closed position and depending on the brand and age of the vent the rubber will be held in place either by its own elasticity or by a small spring.
The diaphragm is able to let air in but not out when either negative or positive air pressure is applied.
If you hold up an AAV to your mouth and breathe you'll find that you can only inhale and not exhale.
Positive air pressure (exhaling) forces the rubber to seal itself even tighter against the plastic seat.
This means that if the pipe further downstream becomes clogged and a back up is occurring then the positive pressure created simply seals the AAV even tighter.
This means that the air trapped in that 4" long piece of pipe may get compressed but it is not displaced by the waste. This is called an air lock.
Different AAV's are rated for different amounts of air input measures in CFM or cubic feet per minute, they are also rated for how much back pressure (positive pressure) they are able to hold back, measured in inches of water column.
AAV 's do eventually fail as the rubber and/or spring wears out but they are threaded into place and thus easily replaced.
I dunno, it's incomplete localised technical knowledge, on a world wide platform. Click baiting to encourage views. But if you learn something, even if it's not entirely correct, you're still better than dead.
I believe there are much better channels run by plumbers/other qualified contractors that share relevant information with non construction related peoples
I always thought the trap was simply so you could potentially retrieve objects that might accidentally fall into the sink like a wedding ring or something. Now that you say it the sewer gas thing makes a lot of sense.
The object retrieval was a good byproduct of the main reason for the trap, blocking the gas. So it's both! I could not say if both were in the original design thought process though.
Same.
Ben: You sound like an elegant man -- away from the rough and tumble.
Same idea on toilets!!!
The ability to retrieve objects was the second most popular reason for the correct design...With the aforementioned "P" trap, they are gone forever...NOPE! S trap all the way right here!
I really enjoy your videos. As a plumbing instructor, I use your videos with Q&A worksheets for my high school students. These videos, combined with lecture, open response questions, and short quizzes using Kahoot really improve the educational experience for my students.
Wow, thank you!!!!
Videos are clearly marked for entertainment purposes only! ;-)
Teaching skills to HS kids is something is awesome!! they stopped doing in America a while back i have fond memories of my shop classes and what I learned thank you
My homeboy Pitha-gorass be rollin in him geave
" Dammit Jim, I am a locksmith, not a plumber! " Excellent video. You not only explain the situation, but options on how to resolve.
Thanks!!
@@sparkyvee I'm a plumber and we like to do the old trick for the inspector it's called throwing a dog a bone. You just leave something very obvious out for him to see first thing something you can fix right in front of him in just a few seconds. Then that relaxes them and puts them at ease in less than think they are in charge. Then they miss all the ridiculous stuff that they like to point out. Works like a charm
In our country (NZ) this is catered for by installing a terminal vent at the head of the household drain system. Appliance "S" traps are normally deep enough to not lose the seal, but if a toilet is flushed on an unvented system then the weight of the 4" flow is more than enough to empty most appliance traps in the vicinity whether S or P. Install a 4" or 3" terminal vent and all syphon problems are solved.
Same here in the UK.
Thanks for explaining. I knew a traps were pretty standard here (I sell them) but I haven't yet learned all the technical bits. Such as this!
@@daviddou1408Dou. Neither this has been standard plumbing practice from our joint history of basing our laws on UK plumbing practice. I suspect the principal goes back to Roman times as it is so fundamental to the science of fluidics engineering.
That's something not mentioned in the video: One S-trap can empty ALL the S-traps in the entire system from the suction. I didn't know that.
Same in the Netherlands
This answers my childhood home problem. Many times the dishwasher would drain and the kitchen sink next to it would have air bubbles and bits of water come out along with a smell.
I have this in my old apartment,
@@Alvinyokatorino, its wrong. that happens when your sewege pipe for some reason is not capable to pass the flow, the dishwasher gives. it may be because of wrong 90-turns, wrong angle of pipe, wrong diameter and lack of vent
People who spend their Life thinking about Sewers !!!
What Can I Say ???
The Situation Speaks For Itself !!!
@@sergeykuchkov2887 yeah when that happened I think the sink was acting as a vent BC the smell was just rotten food not sewer gasses
*As somebody with no plumbing experience, I can see why that’s a problem just looking at the thumbnail, it goes down a hill, and now has to go up the hill to go down again. It’s fighting gravity.*
This is an excellent presentation and very thorough! Every home inspector should be watching this channel so that he/she can give comprehensive responses to homeowners who have questions as to why something is incorrect or requires a fix. Thumbs UP! as always!
🤗🤗🤗
A home inspector that doesn't already know this has no business doing home inspections.
@@mattjohnston2 a lot of them know it's not allowed. but also can't tell the homeowner the reason why. I think this is what frederick means
@@jeffgravel8129 what do you mean they can't tell the homeowner why?
If you're going to hire a home inspector, make sure to check their credentials. There is no governing body to hand out a license for the job, and no prerequisite qualifications, so it doesn't take much for someone to call themselves a home inspector.
@@mattjohnston2 I know a lot that know what they do. but often they just write off, not up to code and dont know the reason behind why it's not up to code. their job is to inspect and I know that they obviously dont know every trade and everything behind the code. in my opinion it's not an issue as long as they cant point out all those problem and sometime not be sure at 100%why for a few of them. this is what I meant with my comment.
Huh. I’ve seen vent pipes on roofs many times and always assumed they had an open connection into the roof space. Never suspected they were connected to the drain pipes and for this purpose. This video gave me good information that I didn’t previously have. A well earned thumbs up is in order
so you have been shitting your whole life and finally learned how a toilet works, we are doomed
Stink goes UP & OUT!
so now you know, you don't have to feel bad after using them as bathrooms
@Swim Fan
-- Liquid water
flows along the lowest path.
-- Gas
flows along the highest path.
This is simple physics !
-- As long as the liquid can flow through the top curve, there is increasing amounts of gas in the top curve.
Simple fix !
-- Gas release at the highest point in the upper curve.
-- Gas release at any high points of the plumbing.
-- Gas release, actually does not require piping to the roof.
As gas increases fairly slowly: it can be vented into the upper parts of the room;
diirectly into the sink overflow; or the cupboard, itself
Whenever I would walk by one of these vents on the roof, I knew something didn't smell right. Now I know it's a "S"hit trap!. ;D
Been in the HVAC business for 40 years I’ve changed out as traps for PT traps never knew why traps were outlawed in New Hampshire. Good video. Thanks for the information.❤️🔥🇺🇸
I believe the 6" above flood line of the fixture is if using the AAV as a stack vent. If you already have a stack vent an AAV can be used on an S trap and only needs to be installed 4" above the top of the trap which should be able to go inside the vanity cabinet under the countertop. That is if your municipality allows AAVs. Many are just behind the times and don't care to change. Mine are working just fine.
This Florida county allows just that. The valve is under the sink, but there is a conventional vent through the roof in the system. The valves do sometimes malfunction, however, even though the manufacturer claims they cannot.
It was mentioned that if the vent would not seal and leak, it would be a mess and cause gas leakage. If it would be 6" above the sink, chances are it would not leak because of backup and therefore would be a much better installation.
@@bryonhalsey6033 if the pipe filled with water up to the vent it would not let sewer gas out of the pipe. The pipe would be full of water.
The reason they aren't allowed is because they require to be changed from time to time and most homeowners don't even know what one is, let alone realizing it needs to be replaced
Wow, this just explained why my one bathroom smells when ever the water is running. 1950s plumbing, sink still has an S-trap. Whole house shares one vent.
That is a standard plumbing system in the U.S.A. (well on the east coast that is) One(1) Vent through the roof that is 3+ inches in diameter that all pluming fixtures are connected to. Also most are the P trap type, depending on the state and town / city the construction codes vary so much, where I am, I learned that as long as a 120+ yr old house is kept with all four walls intact or at least one or two walls?, then it still gets grandfathered under the law that is in place for that town / city.
@@SgtDreTecKeGamer Pretty sure it's just a single wall, but maybe that also varies by state. I was touristing through Boston with my wife a couple years ago, and saw a building across the street and a block south of the Aquarium completely demolished except for a lone brick wall (which looked very precarious, standing there all by itself). They later built a new building on the old footprint, incorporating that remaining wall. "Just a reno. No new buildings here".
@@c182SkylaneRG Yeah those are some odd building codes that never get taken off the books.
In a 70s apt here, can't say I'm looking forward to the day they have to re-do those pipes considering how much I hate the changes they made to my shower fixtures when those pipes sprung a leak.
@@c182SkylaneRG which is why "Love that Dirty Water" is a city anthem. lol. BTW, that song was written and recorded by a California band. 😢
This one goes to my "unrelated knowledge" brain folder, regardless of me never doing anything related to plumbing in my life
Good explanation of the system that will help many folks. A couple comments - bath and kitchen sink plumbing is usually 1-1/4" tough on our last house I did a mod to the tail pieces to the 2" wall drain piping. Secondly, I would be surprised if an 'S' Trap system on a reasonably new house wouldn't have DWV plumbing to the roof or at least a properly sited DWV such as the Oatey you showed that would prevent siphoning of the trap water
WOW! Fantastic information. We built our home "off grid", with absolutely no knowledge, about 35 years ago (before the internet). No permits, no inspections, no brains. We had a problem with gasses from my septic system when we used our washing machine. I eventually got it fixed, but I never realized what was exactly happening..... but I did get it right.
Knew about a house sold. 2nd buyer, could smell something bad from one of the bathrooms. Here it was a sealed vent on the roof that wasn't taken off after the build. Easy fix. Thanks for the video
They're not "illegal" - they're a violation of plumbing code. Having or installing one doesn't break laws, it would just prevent you from getting certain permits until it's replaced.
What he said: "Excellent video. You not only explain the situation, but options on how to resolve." I had not heard S-traps were not allowed; thank you.
🤗🤗🤗
he said it was illegal as in against the law
As an Australian licensed plumber I can refer you to Australian standard 3500
S traps I use university in Australia with no problems provided the standard is followed with the correct size for the number of fixture unit
Plumbers in desert wastelands don't know shit
'S' traps are common in the UK, especially under kitchen and bathroom sinks. I'm not a pro but am an experienced DIYer, but I've never heard of any problems with them. Then again, we don't have the same strict codes here.
Lots to think about though; as usual the most informative plumbing video on the subject. 👍
🇬🇧
You never get a whiff of sewage gas???
@@troybush5899 Nope.
It's common to run the tap when we empty a sink, refilling the reservoir, it's also common for us to wash our hands after using the toilet here, refilling the reservoir.
S traps will mostly be found on older builds and kitchen sinks, using the syphon to help empty the kitchen sink, especially of matter, like food, then we clean the sink, refilling the reservoir. Pot and P traps are more common here now, while baths and showers might have a waterless mechanical trap.
Here in Australia we also use S traps in bathrooms and kitchens, there might be another trap outside like the vented ones attached to this system, never really looked, but as far as I know S traps are not illegal.
This is literally the first time seeing something under the sink that wasn’t an S trap. I really need to renovate. This is why I tend to plug the drains
0:19 I could see this as a potential meme
Nice vid as usual. In the UK, plumbing is different, every house has a 4" vented pipe extended 1m above the highest window, into which all other connections are made, preventing any pressure / gas build-up from the mains. Obviously in a crowded city with old buildings in the US, that is hard to achieve.
I'm in the UK and we have a vented soil pipe on outside wall, through the eaves. But we're getting sewage gases in our upstairs bathroom in the evening when we flush the toilet and run taps. Sink waste is not physically connected outside to the vented pipe so I don't think that is the culprit. Could he coming through shower waste though 🤷♂️ We had a plumber suggest and install some waterless traps which have not made any difference.
@@RobinCawser Try capping the each drain and checking the following day to determine the source. To test the toilet seal, tape the toilet base to the floor.
@@RobinCawser Waterless traps, or "elastomeric traps" virtually can't fail. they're like the "reed" part of a whoopee cushion inside, allowing water to pass, yet closing tighter under pressure to prevent passage of sewer gases. They just have to be fitted right way round (the arrow helps) and, if fitted in a "horizontal" (waste pipes ought to have a fall) pipe, have to be fitted right way up. Assuming it's fitted correctly, hasn't been damaged, it'll work. If your basin/sink waste is teed into the shower waste, there's a good chance that, despite the elastomeric trap being fitted to the basin waste, the trap water in the shower waste is being drawn out when you empty the basin. Simple check... After the last person uses the basin at night, tip some water into the shower waste, ensuring it's full. If there's no smell in the morning, and no one's got up in the night, it's your culprit. If you can't discipline the others in your household to not get up, tape over the shower waste with packing tape or duct tape. If the smell's not present in the morning, you know that it's the shower waste that's the issue.
If you use a large 4-in vent to tie onto a vent like that only works within a 4-ft to 6 ft away from each fixture anything longer than that will not work properly.
@@toddlenard7602 Oh? With 1 1/2" pipe, or go up to 1 3/4" shouldn't be a problem, esp if you use a trap with an air admittance valve. I've never had a problem, only had to replace pipes with larger diameter. 👍
Tyvm for this video. Very well spoken & presented in a way even I, whose plumbing experience deals with a plunger, a can of draino or digging longdrops out the back for my grandfather. He liked to change HIS thrones location, yes he built an actual throne for his outhouse. Now that man could do anything to do with a house. I miss that crazy bugger. I don't miss his pet snake that lived in the outhouse tho lol.
🤩🤩🤩
I believe the technical term for a throne in the outhouse is a "Khazi"
How about the hornet nest up under the roof, and the one under the toilet platform?
@@algrayson8965 he kept a pet snake in the toilet seat platform/throne. He didn't like hornets/bees as they interfered with his quiet time
this man explained everything to me in my understanding and it was me
My kitchen sink has an AAV. It works great. They last for decades.
Just pinging on this, 70's house with an AAV under the kitchen sink. Was getting smells, thought it was garbage disposal until I tracked it down to the AAV stuck in open position. Replaced it with another AAV, definitely an easy fix but they do fail unfortunately...
Haven’t had issues with AAVs not passing inspection in Northeast Indiana. Still using S-traps at home because I’m lazy, but being in an old farm house, the sewer and gray water systems are completely separate.
When I purchased a home with some plumbing issues, it taught me a lot about plumbing. The most important thing I learned was that any time that water in your pipes needs to go down, you need another pipe to go up to vent it. If your plumbing isn’t properly vented, you will hear and hear it gurgling and glugging as the air that the water displaces on it’s way down makes it back up through the path of least resistance.
It makes perfect sense if you consider the fact that it’s the same reason you can put your finger over the tip of a straw, and the liquid from your beverage will remain locked in place until you release it. Knowing this explains why siphons work, and more importantly why shotgunning a beer works. It’s also why you need to let the air settle out if a beer bong before it will work, if you don’t you will choke on air and beer and look silly. Once you’ve bled the system and relaxed your throat, the power of gravity and hydraulic pressure will power that beer down your throat faster than you can even think about swallowing or choking.
Another cool trick is to use a long bendy straw with a glass bottle. You put the long end down to then bottom, then you form a seal around the top with your finger wrapped around the opening and the small end of the straw. If the straw is long enough, you’ll be able to chug that bottle way faster than any of your friends, and look like a genius.
So, anybody who tells you that drinking a beer with a straw isn’t cool or manly, then tell them that they’re just doing it wrong, and if you’re in a winning mood, bet them that you can drink a beer with a straw faster than they can without one. Once you used this trick to make them look foolish, you can laugh in their face and yell “SCIENCE!” before collecting your winnings.
if you need to, rather than use a vent you can simply make the volume on the upswing of the s significantly larger than the following down swing. while it will still gurgle, it will retain enough water to seal the trap, the major flaw is that it reduces the velocity of the water so it is more likely to clog, and it is much more difficult to clean if it does clog, but it does work, particularly in places with no other practical options.
@@vidard9863 regardless of the trap design, you still need a vent, and it's still not a good idea to do something that "theoretically works" because unless you tested every edge case scenario, and have 100% certainty that it's just as good as doing it properly--you're inevitably going to encounter one of those weird edge cases in the wild, and it's going to bite you in the ass. I do thinks the proper way, even though it takes longer, because every time I ever tried to cut corners, the benefits of doing it never outweighed the pain in the ass of having to re-do it.
@@kernelpickle meh, having a few which seem to still be working over ten years later i am not worried about it, and given that the cost of " doing it right " would pretty much be tearing it down and building a new house, due to the regulations, on the day that edge case happens.... it probably won't be worth changing.
also learn how to read. "if you need to" does not mean " do this first. "
Thanks an awful lot. I recently bought my first home and every bit of information I can get is helpful! Hope you had a merry christmas, have a happy New Year
Thanks, same to you brother! 🌲
S-traps do not inherently have the inability to be vented, this video has serious inaccuracy, every single trap in my home is a vented S trap
Agreed - it’s easy enough to have a vented S trap - my house is exactly the same.
Probably why at 3:13 he mentions it may not necessarily be a problem for everyone.
@@ericmann1781 which makes it pointless to say it’s illegal when it’s only illegal in certain places under certain circumstances
@@savagetuner2404 "not permitted by code" work better?
@@CTuna-uo3pq rarely banned by code either. Still illegal BTW
Is made aware of the term.."Manhole explosion compilation". Pauses video. I now have 6 videos waiting the end of this one all with epic boom booms.
The Mexican example, with gasoline leaking from a refinery into the city sewer system, was spectacular.
I believe there has been a change in the plumbing code that allows the s-trap if the 1 1/2" pipe goes into a 2" vertical, as that would break the siphon.
This is better than studying for macbeth
Thanks for the information. I am a 'diy' homeowner that has rarely experienced the positive motivation you get from getting it right the first time. The mechanical principles of design tend to elude me and your video simplified so much.
🤗🤗🤗
Great video. Although I can't speak for the whole of the UK, I can say that all the houses and flats I've lived in or know, have no direct link between the domestic waste water, i.e. from sinks and baths/showers and foul waste, i.e. toilets. Each of these facilities drain seperately out of a home with the two independant flows only coming together in an inspection chamber below ground level away from the house.
That's because the US was very late to the trap game and tried to separate sewer.gas through distance.
Every lavatory I've ever seen has an S-trap, yet, despite the very rapid flow rate, never siphons all the water out of the bottom section, nor does it siphon all the water out of S-trap on the adjacent sink. In all the places I've lived, the only things fitted with a P-trap have been showers, where there isn't enough depth below the shower tray for a S-trap - and I've never had a problem with sewer gases coming up the pipe.
Depending how the plumbing was done, it won't have any issues!
Dunning and Kruger would be proud of this guy.
IF your tube coming out of the S-trap is twice the area or bigger than the pipe coming into the S-trap it will be no problem either... Try it, you can never make a siphon if the outlet pipe is twice or bigger than the inlet pipe...
Of course, achieving that with existing piping might not be a simple task.
KL, your idea is probably cheaper and easier to do than the alternatives. Would only need the larger pipe going from the trap into the wall pipe?
@@ede-armond476 The outlet pipe must be of at least twice the area all the way to a ventilated pipe. This is as soon as the pipe have an inflow that is higher then the outflow a siphoning effect can occur. So even a restriction prior to just leaving the S-trap solves the issue.
Test for your self, as soon as you fully understand how siphones work you will never have the issue anymore.
But you are not allowed to reduce the size of the sewer line at any point so if you can’t simply insert an oversized S trap and connect it to a smaller Lin downstream.
I find this very odd. The large S trap diameter has numerous benefits. ONE: the flow rate due to the syphon effect is low and although it will suck neutral buoyancy objects down the drain, heavy objects such as rings etc will tend to 'levitate in the up leg and sink back down once the flow stops (hence the access plug at the base of the S bend). TWO: The syphon is only effective whilst there is water in the sink. Once the water level reaches the base of the first down leg, air from the house will be 'sucked' into the drain. This air quickly bypasses the water in the up leg (hence the gurgle) breaking the vacuum (syphon). THIRD: Now that the vacuum (syphon) is brocken the bypassed water in the up leg will fall back into the bend. The volume of water that falls back must be enough to fill the bottom of the trap to prevent gases entering the house. If you find that the syphon is so strong and gasses do come back then all you have to do is (A), slow the flow rate leaving the sink by inserting a larger grill or grid plate at the bottom of the sink, or (B)insert a linear length of pipe (these days PVC) in the up leg. This will hold more water during the syphon breaking to flow back down into the trap.
This would be a great video for home inspectors to link to in their report if this situation is present. It's always good to educate your clients.
👌💯
DWV is included in all house inspection reports.
@@ralph1478 not all home inspectors will include links to educational information or videos.
This is a good explanation and I didn't know the connection between the greedy glass and traps. The diagrams make it clear.
Methane is considered non-toxic; you may have meant hydrogen sulfide, the chief concern in sewage venting. Ammonia is toxic in high amounts. Methane can still be dangerous if it ignites, or if there's enough to displace the oxygen in an area. Carbon dioxide can also build up and displace oxygen, but really if you have that much methane or carbon dioxide you're probably going to smell the hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg or boggy smell), since our noses are generally highly sensitive to sulfur compounds.
I will just add that I knew nothing about plumbing and watched some other Got2Learn videos before installing my own water heater. The videos really taught me a lot and the water heater has done great for many months now. The videos about recommended tools and tips & tricks were very helpful, as I had no experience going in.
😇😇😇
This is Thoroughly explained !!!!!
I always thought the “S” was there just in case you dropped your wedding ring in the sink while washing your hands. lol.
I did know about the vent to the roof. My dad used to run a high pressure garden hose down it to unclog a clog between the sink and the Septic tank. I grew up on a ranch and My father never called a plumber or any repair man for anything.. He just figured it out fixed it, or built it. I was a very lucky kid to be his helper. Having learned from the best. I have never had to call a repair man either.
I must admit though of all the trades, plumbing is my least favorite thing to work on. It always seems like whatever you replace you end up going back to the hardware store to buy the part next to it. Then you go out back to the hardware store again to buy the part next to the part you just went back to the hardware store for. And on and on it goes... Perhaps this TH-cam channel will change all this. THUMBS UP!
🙏🙏🙏
My issue is, by the time something needs repair, they've changed the part.
So in your first sentence you say you didn't understand what the trap was for then proceed to say what a lucky child you were for growing up with such a "handy" father to gleen knowledge from ?
Ok....sure ?!
@@666zombee corys gotta chill
@@666zombee In the first sentence I was making a joke about the traps purpose. Note the .”lol” at the end of the sentence. Duh! Do they have jokes where you come from? Or did it just completely go over your head. Or were you just looking to insult somebody because it makes you feel better because you have low self-esteem.
I need a channel like this one but for electrical... yeah, I just hopped trades.
ElectricianU
Sparky
"AVE" or "BOLTR"
Definitely check Benjamin Shalstrom too, great content there.
Thanks everyone! I didn't expect to actually get any results from that comment.
strictly speaking, a p-trap is not necessarily vented. the vent is not the differentiator between a P or S trap. If you have a P-trap, it certainly SHOULD be vented, though.
This exactly!!
In the video he does state that a S trap is more likely to be "flushed dry" because the velocity of the flush going downward will pull more water out the trap as when going sideways. (Though I doubt, because the S-trap seems higher also). But your point is right in which he makes it look as if P traps are always vented.
An unvented or improperly vented p-trap is functionally identical to an s trap as the drain would be drop at some point, if only for pitch. Once the drain drops below the water level of the p-trap without being vented, you for all intents and purposes have an s-trap.
@@uwubermensch8636 no, an unvented p trap is worse. Proper S traps work because the 2nd curve is higher than the equilibrium point, so when the water level in the pipe before the first bend has decreased enough to allow air to pass, the suction is lost and the remaining fluid in the vertical section between the first and second curves is released and backslides, and it is enough to settle at a level higher than the equilibrium point meaning no more air may pass. S traps work just fine as a result provided they are tall enough. Basically the volume above the first curve equilibrium point going to the 2nd curve equilibrium point must be greater than the volume under the 1st curve equilibrium point.
A p trap though has no elevated 2nd curve, so the equilibrium point at the 90 is the highest the water ever goes, so when the suction releases, there's little water to backslide and gases will not be stopped for long before it evaporates. This is assuming the p trap does not have a straight vertical section after the curve, as if it did, it is basically an s trap.
what is a p trap but just an s trap with a really long top half of the second curve (without the vent)
Geez plumbing, what an amazing thing. You don’t care as a child, teenager or even a young adult but as a provider it is imperative to keep the plumbing in good working condition.
Where exactly are "S" traps illegal or "Not Allowed"?
I've been a plumber for a lot of years now and I've never heard of this "law".
As far as I know, both types are "allowed" and they both have to be installed correctly to work properly no matter where they are located. Proper venting of a sewer system is the key to making them work properly.
He's talking shit Robert, in clickbait, to try and get views.
I'm licensed in 2 states... And S traps are ILLEGAL in BOTH! And both states are based on two completely different codes! One is based on the Universal code and the other is based on International code. Obviously I can't comment on EVERY jurisdiction, but I'm pretty sure it's completely illegal where you are. Either you are a total hack or carpenter pretending to be a plumber.
@@DrScott666, I ask a simple question and you act like a 12-year-old getting defensive and calling names. It makes you look like you are the hack spouting off about things you know nothing about. And you didn't answer my question, nice deflection.
Most municipalities won't allow S-traps unless you vent them, for reasons already stated in the video. You don't want a house to stink because of sewer gases creeping in, do you?
@@cameraredeye3115, Over the last 40+ years I've installed hundreds if not thousands of S traps, and those along with the ones in my own house have never caused any problems or allowed any sewer gasses to pass through. Properly installed to a well-vented system, they are not an issue. I'm beginning to think it's all a hack perpetrated by unscrupulous people to just wrangle more money out of others.
Perfect timing for this video! I have exactly this problem. My landlord did a renovation before I moved in and he did not vent the drain pipe for the kitchen sink. I did not know that aav's existed and will add one immediately.
🤘
Make sure that the local plumbing codes allow use of the AAV - they are prohibited in soooo many places.
@@stevebabiak6997 Do you know why they are prohibited? Just curious.
@@PyroShim - for many reasons, depending on the location.
Some code enforcement departments are old fashioned and don’t trust them.
Some point out that they rarely are installed according to the acceptable installation directives in the plumbing codes.
Some have adopted an international plumbing code that prohibits them, so the municipality does not itself prohibit by their own decision.
Now I know what that vent pipe looking this is 😂 I don’t think it’s up to the distancing code but so far no smell! Thanks for this video! Learned lots
I enjoy seeing how different country's do things. I'm a plumber in Australia, our sewerage systems work a bit differently to yours, we are still allowed to use S traps but have restrictions on how far they can drop.
Also interesting, we are allowed to install AAV's up to 1 meter (40 inches) below the flood level of the lowest fixture.
👍👍👍
" we are allowed to install AAV's up to 1 meter (40 inches) below the flood level of the lowest fixture." Almost like you'd rather encourage people to improve their plumbing instead of leaving it broken but compliant with old code, explosive/toxic gases and all.
@@443DM There is no issues with our AAV's being installed this way. They are designed to be able to withstand in excess of 1 meter of static head. To be sold in Australia they must be compliant with that law.
However, I do dislike AAV's and try to never install them on new builds or high end renos.
Nothing beats a proper atmosphere vent.
😬
Hi. Nicely done and explained.I live in germany an our main pipe has always a vent which goes up through the roof. we use s-traps, but right after the s the pipe (arm??) is bigger than the pipes you use for the actual s, so the arm will never completly filled with water and gets his air from the main housepipe to keep the water flowing without draining the s. so if your s-pipes are 1 1/2" the arm needs to be at least 2"( just as an example)
i hope i explained it well enough to understand what i mean.
The greedy glasses crazy you learn something new each day keep the good work man
Appreciate that, thanks!!!
I work in a plumbers merchant, firstly its not illegal in the UK, secondly If you have smells coming up get a anti vac trap
We are looking into remodeling projects, and this gave me a lot to research before I start!
Thanks for the informative video.
The information presented here is in compliance with the IPC and IAPMO (plumbing codes). Adopted building codes not only vary from state-to-state, but more importantly, jurisdiction-to-jurisdiction (counties, cities and towns within each state). I am a building inspector (not a "home inspector"). I was also a master plumber.
I have learned something and when I get home I will check my pipes. I thought the smells were a build up of gunk, but now I think not. More work for me now. Grrrr
i just fixed a fcked up s-trap in my aunt's plumbing system today and this got recommended to me
I remember in the 1990's when the manhole covers used to smoke in Harlem, NYC. And some people said that the covers would blow off as well. I used to wonder why this was.
Now ya know ;)
My fiancée was a Union electrician and he said a lot if manholes have really high voltage wires in them like 50 000 volts or more and when they blow its a lot of power released!Writing this on Mother's Day 2021 stay safe people and God bless America!
Excuse me real quick while I check the drains in my apartment to see if they're S or P drains lol
If i wasn't super stoned and lazy i would check mine.
I've been a plumber for 45 years and I don't know if they were ever "legal" but commonly used by people doing it themselves.
I wish the devs of Minecraft watch this so they can finally add a toilet in the game, or plumbing in general
Would be nice as people would learn so much just crafting and playing.
Strangely specific request but I'd like to say I appreciate the sentiment.
They would have to add minecraft poop to do that and if thats the price to pay for toilets in mine craft, ill pay double :)
Oddly specific request lmao
@@ICDedPeplArisen another form of fertilizer for crops or even a building material
I'd never thought much about this issue, but I can see now how ignorant I was. Thank you from a Scotsman in Aberdeenshire, who loves the idea of Plumbing Gods ! (Best not to p**s them off, they are always going to vent in spectacular fashion ! ;-) )
Beautifully explained. Thank you in part of all professional plumbers out there.
Here in the UK we mostly use bottle traps or waterless waste valves. 4” soil pipes provide plenty of venting. P and S traps are still available too.
In China, they don't use the S-trap nor P-trap in any bathroom sink or shower. So everyone is just used to all bathrooms reeking like shit, it's just normal. "It's what a bathroom is supposed to smell like"
The AAV is only required to be 4" above the invent of the trap arm, the 6" above flood level rim Code is that you cannot run Horizonal vent lines until you exceed those 6".
yup I got one about 5 inches from the water level of the p trap and it cleared w/o issue
S-trap or P-trap is a clever device (or way of connection) to address the foul air issue effectively. It's never banned. If you're living in a multi-floor apartment, you'll probably see a separate vent pipe going from ground to roof in the pipe shaft. This main vent pipe is for your household traps, be it floor trap, basin trap or WC's sub-vent to connect to, so that the pressure fluctuation and siphonage issues are addressed. For standalone houses, pipe venting is not essential so long as you are aware all the floor traps and basin traps are constantly filled with water. Since basin is a frequently used apparatus, there is no worry of the trap being dry. And if your basin trap discharges to the floor trap, this makes the floor trap wet too.
I'd hate to be the rat that caused manholes to shoot off into the air by chewing on some wires around some methane.
This was interesting! I now have to check my pipes! But in the end , sewer gases are going through my plumping eventually leading outside. My house farts!!🤭!♻️ thank you!😎😂
😇😇😇
If the plumber knows what he’s doing he will vent an S trap along with a P-trap along with any other drain
We have a vacation house that is 250 miles away. It didn't get used for about a year. We arrived once and smelled sewer gasses inside the house. After running the water in one of the 2 sinks in the larger bathroom, I could hear the water draining and echoing in the other sink. I knew right away that the water had evaporated from the P-trap and allowed gasses back in. So every time we leave the place now, we run water in all of the sinks as it could be months before we return.
Something else you can do, is poor little bit of vegetable oil or mineral oil of some kind into your drains, because then the water can't evaporate below the oil.
@@charleshealy341 good idea!
They have stuff for homes that are empty like a antifreeze for drains
@@charleshealy341 Correct use mineral oil.
@@user-oc6qs1po3j Ha! The cure in my case is to stop helping everyone for free, take some time off, then go down to that place and enjoy the beach every few months.
I just randomly watched this video and now I understand why our bathroom always stinks. Thanks!!!
As of the present moment "P" and "S" traps are still legal in New Zealand, but the sewers are vented.
Yeah, so I'm thinking US plumbing is a little different to Kiwi plumbing. Show me a house that doesn't have a P or S trap, regardless of whether the fittings are vented not. I'm guessing it's coz we incorporate a 'stink pipe' on the toilet waste, right?
i think its illegal to build a house in NZ without one of them
Same as in Australia, P and S are both legal.
@@richardbaron7106 same throughout whole europe...and i never heart of any explosions...american continent must be so different to the rest of the world...
Alan Torrance same here in Australia and I don't see that our system will ever change if it's not broken leave it alone.
Awesome content! Never thought I would be so interested in plumbing. It has helped me with a ton of projects at home and at work. Your videos have helped me make my plumbing work look super professional. Keep it up!
Glad to help, thank you so much for the nice comment!
4:05 I think the 6" above the fixture flood level is for normal venting. If AAVs are allowed in your area, you would go by the manufactors instructions. 4" above the waste arm is normal for AAVs. This allows for them to be tucked up into a normal sink cabinet, and allows for them to be unscrewed and changed for maintenance.
i have a regular toilet, bath/shower, sink combo in the bathroom. normal sink. looks like all of that vents up to the attic. then, I have a laundry room at the back of the house, and beside my washer/dryer hookup, a few inches (maybe 4 maybe 6) above and to the left, is one of these vents with the white box/cover thing mounted recessed into my wall.
If I had the money I would design a house that allowed easy access to all the plumbing works. I would do this through different ways such as cleverly disguised access panel, positioning walk in closets on the back side of where the plumbing works are located or even a plumbing chase hallway like I saw in a library when I use to do contracted work there.
I see ... Interesting, never heard of most of this stuff as a builder, even from a plumber teaching me things.
I was wonder why I had not heard about how they handle the general system and why sewer systems have issues.
But I see why after watching this whole thing. Fortunately my local system uses isolation, so this is less of a concern but makes sense, it also explains why some P traps have such weird attachments.
Yet you call yourself a builder.
@@jk-kr8jt Builders aren't plumbers.
@@algrayson8965 so in your mind only a plumber should keep up with changes in an industry? Piss off.
If you ignite one end of the sewer system you can put your neighborhood into orbit.
🚀
false. you'd get a "pop" if you were lucky, as your neighbor's houses are all venting sewer gas through their roofs
"Are you interested in plumbing?"
Yeah, sure.
"Wanna learn more about it?"
Sure
TH-cam knows I'll watch anything by now. Great vid.
🙏🤣