I think in terms of G.I. Joe, cannon is very personal. For me, Comics > Cartoon, Hawk is the Joe leader, Scarlett belongs with Snake-eyes, Stalker is higher up the chain of command than either Flint or Beach-head, Cobra Commander is a bad-ass that used to be a used car salesman, not a snake person, etc. But outside of those "core beliefs" I have room for most of the less crazy elements of the cartoon. And I agree that a lot of my characterizations of some of the lesser seen (in the comics) characters come from the cartoon, such as for Spirit, Alpine, Wet-suit, etc. Then there are characters that both the comics AND the cartoon did dirty, like Admiral Keel-haul and Grand Slam, who basically got no time in either.
True. there's a whole bunch of characters that don't do a lot in any media. Agree with all your points on the comic. I get offended at the suggestion that Scarlett is with anyone other than Snake Eyes
@@ericmadsen7470 I get that on the cartoon, but for me it's a little too silly. I really like the original mini series (MASS Device) was the best of them all.
I'll always be on the Comics side. Hama is the man wrote most of the file cards as well as most of the main comic run. There are tons of cartoons as well. Sunbow, DiC, Renegades, Extreme, Sigma Six for series. Resolute(any Joe fan that hasn't watched this really should), Valor vs Venom, Ninja Battles, Spy Troops.
Resolute always struck me as a bit too serious. Sunbow and Hama's comics always had an ample infusion of humor in them, which gave them an extra charm and moments of levity. Maybe if Resolute had continued as a full season of episodes, they would have included some of that levity and humor, but, who knows.
@seanbeckett4019 True, I watched the entire season 1 & 2 of GI Joe a few years ago & still loved it!! Season 3 & 4 had some good arcs, but it was mostly unbearable! Lol Resolute was good, but yeah, way too serious. I really liked Sigma 6 as well. Renegades wasn't bad. The 86 movie is still great! The live films were alright. At least they gave me some awesome 1:18th figures & vehicles. I never read the comics, but I do love the file cards! So, since basically, the cartoons the only Joe continuity I know of, that's what I'm sticking with. As for the Joe movie figures, I'm just going to turn them into new characters & or customs. Except for the icons like Snake-Eyes & Stormshadow. They can be alt costumes. Movie Duke, Road-Block, etc., they're going to be all new characters. So, Snake & Scarlet were together before he got messed-up? Also, is Tommy Japanese-American? How is he from a long line of secret ninja clan while being in the US army? Also, I thought you couldn't have a criminal record & join the military? How is Lorenzo in the service, when he was a notorious ex-gang leader? Also, CC's Cobra-La origins is a lot more interesting to me, then a pathetic car sales man, becoming the top evil overlord! Lol It's only natural to steer clear of elements you don't care for & go all in for the aspects you do love. I can't fault Hama for that. Since, idk the characters of how they are in the books, I'll just have to use the file cards as a guide & apply that to the cartoons.
@@holonet1 I recommend giving the 80s comics a try, I didn't read them until I was about 32 year old (I grew up on the Sunbow cartoon, which I still love). I'm so glad I finally read them. The longer, more ambitious story arcs begin around issue #11, that's when the series kicks into higher gear.
@@fett333 the cobra island war. The weird difference of comics and cartoons at the time. So cartoons layers and fun..ok 👌. Cool.comics. people die and its metal like bullets metal.people die..and in the 90s as kid you'd know or be related to military person. A terrorist felt real. Submersion of an idea
I always liked GI Joe having standard, modern weapons, vehicles, and gear. However, Cobra having Destro as a weapons designer, I was cool with Cobra having weapons and vehicles that were a bit on the futuristic side than the Joes had
"When I was a child, I played with the toys, I watched the cartoon; but when I became a man, I finally read the Larry Hama run from Marvel." - Book of Joes. I gotta go with the comic.
Great vid and topic. I was 9 in ‘83 and remember the cartoon. In fact, when I bailed out in ‘88 (discovered both drums and girls😂) I still hadn’t realized there were comic books. I had never gotten into comics at all. In fact, outside of MAD magazine, there wasn’t a whole lotta reading. 😂 But I have gone back over the years and have appreciated the journey as well. So, while I discovered the cartoon first, I thoroughly enjoyed the comics and variations on the characters.
Fantastic video! Definitely a topic worth talking. I'll always stay with Hama's comics, it has some really weird stuff too, like the newer robot ninjas and their Skynet/Auto leader, but the way Larry treats the conflict and people is what made me a fan of the franchise. I would say the biggest difference between the two is in their depictions of armed conflicts. Larry said it himself: he always felt the lack of death in the show was moral bankrupcy. Talking about a military faction -be it sci-fi, be it fantasy- needs addressing on the ugly parts too, even a toyline for children needs it.
That is a good point. It did go all Terminator in the latest run. It was fun, but I didn't love it. That is great Larry had that point of view to show kids war is hell, while still providing an interesting story they could appreciate
I watch your videos and I find that we agree at about a 90% clip. Cobra La is absolutely where I drew the line as a kid and to this day I will have nothing to do with it. It didn't end my collecting on the spot but that was absolutely when the decline started. Would pretty much just pick and choose what I wanted after that based on which figure looked cool or badass. Back to the point. I like how you put it, it's all Canon, but also none of it. In my dream world we'd find that guy or girl like us in Hollywood who lived and breathed it all in the '80s and early '90s and we'd give that person a clean slate to take these characters and create the G.I.Joe universe. Basically a modern day Larry Hama. The comics, cartoons, movies, etc is all now Legends and this person can take the best elements from them all to build something cohesive from the ground up, while still remaining true to the general spirit of what we all loved as kids, and now, adults. In my mind that's probably 75% Hama comics and file cards, 20 % ARAH cartoon and 5% everything else and/or new creative. Something along those lines.
Man you nailed it as to the better version between comic and cartoon. I love the cartoon but I cant consider it canon if there has to be one. The cartoon which I watch almost daily on youtube is totally batshit crazy. As a former serviceman I laugh out loud at the crazy aspects of the cartoon that I didn't notice as a kid.
Well done video! Love the comparison of Bobfet and Fire Fly in your closing point. These characters' are solid despite how little they were used in the storyline.
How is this a question. For me, Hama was essentially to G.I. Joe as Tolkien was to Lord of the Rings and Lucas was to Star Wars. They were the three lore keepers of their respective universes.
Awesome video. I do the combination canon. File Cards for name rank and background. Comics for the real world type experiences, and cartoon for some development and voices.
i love the GI Joe movie but that background was distracting AF!!!.... i would also say about the movie, that intro with Pythona is one of the best movie intro ever, not just animated! i'm a cartoon guy and always will be, i only had a couple of comic books and now the cartoon is everywhere but the comic books are hard to find!
Thanks for the feedback. i'll kill the video in the BG for next time. Yes, love Pythona. The good news is, You can read all the comics online for free. it's probably a semi-legal website, but it works
The cartoon was able to shape many of these characters personally much more, However the comic was able to give us a variety of combat situations and many more characters. Some were prominent in one medium while nearly nonexistent in the other. The cartoon is considered a classic, however stopped being produced decades ago. The comic is STILL being printed!
The comic developed certain characters more, the cartoon developed others. For example, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Scarlett, Stalker, Hawk, were far more developed in the comic. Characters like Lady Jaye, Shipwreck, Tomax and Xamot, and even Sgt Slaughter, were more developed and featured in the cartoon. I look to both the comic and cartoon, for my definitive versions of certain characters.
Great topic! I think age is a factor, along with which one you discovered first. For me, it was the figures followed shortly after by the cartoon. I was quite young and didn't even realize that the comics existed until a good year or year and a half later. The cartoon was my doorway into the fandom, as you rightly described it. So, I will always have a soft spot for it. Naturally, once I started reading the comics and collecting all the back issues, I fell in love with it. I can understand now that the kids who were older than me and started with the comics had a disdain for the cartoon. I enjoy them both for what they are. And of course, we all have memories of the stories and battles we made up playing with the figures. Good call on Firefly being the Boba Fett of the Joe Universe. Such an underused character in all platforms! I guess my canon is a mix of all three.
I love em both. The comic for being so weird and fun and creating the iconic voices, and the comic for telling a story I felt was almost above my head back when I was 10 years old. But yes, a mix of all three is the way to go
I was there from the jump as an elementary school kid. First came the toys, then the comics. Then, years later, the cartoon miniseries. Then a year or two after that, the cartoon series. So for me? The comics were the Real Deal along with the figures' file cards. The cartoons was a bananas, kiddified iteration of the Joe franchise... Fun (with GREAT voice acting), but absolutely insane.
Yes, the cartoon is absolutely batshit insane. I'm rewatching it now, and i"m impressed at how entertained I am still, and that's all about how crazy it gets
Love your videos man! Always a great topic. As far comics vs. cartoon I'd have to go with the comics. For me it was G.I. joe comics + the file cards providing a base level of understanding of who the characters were, personality, specialties, ect. and the toys + my imagination taking it from there. I loved the cartoon but felt the seriousness of the comic suited me better. If you haven't checked out the new Duke and Cobra Commander comics from Image/ skybound, they are absolutely amazing! I HIGHLY recommend anybody who is a Joe fan to check these two books out. Great story with some killer artwork.
I think you hit it right on the mark. The cartoons REALLY had the universal presence with the actual toys. But coming up from the era of 64-76 Joe, Mego, Big Jim to Micronauts and Star Wars after Adventure People clicked with kids as the new standard, seeing ARAH come out in 82 blew our minds! Main complaint was always the lack of articulation in the SW line compared to Buck Rogers, Black Hole, or even cheap off the rack figures. Then Joe comes back in full glory with Snake Eyes just as bad ass and mysterious as Fett! And the vehicles! PLUS they fit in our SW ships AND sets!!! BOOM! Hasbro didn’t throw the gauntlet. They dropped a nuke on the entire toy industry. As for the comic… We only had the local corner store near enough to walk/run/bike to at the time. Competition was FIERCE to get to that comic rack… So, for me at least, it was the toys and cartoons. I REALLY wanted those comic compendiums that came out a few years back. I can’t justify the crazy price tags for them now. I’ll stick with my toys!!!🤣🤣🤣✌️🤘🇨🇦
Yeah, Star Wars had the greatest story to pull from, but are not very well-made toys. GI Joe blew them away. I found a website where i can read all of the comics for free. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be way too expensive
Dude! You totally read my mind on that observation. Quick read really.🤣 I think the Vong were what the Joes Cobra-La should have been. But can’t traumatize the kids. Duke came back in one piece right?!?🤣🤣🤣✌️🤘🇨🇦
I actually really like your explanation here. It is the kind of thing that would usually really annoy me, “ the canon is within all of us,” which under any other circumstances would seem like a dodge. But The way you phrased it here, the idea that it’s whatever we combined in our heads when we were kids, yeah of course, it has to be that. You’re absolutely right. I would never have thought of it like that. It’s pretty brilliant, so yeah, I like it a lot. I am now subscribed and I gave you like.
I’d love to add that CC in comics had an older brother who died in car accident bc he was drunk. I’d say CC still can’t overcome his grief. So he blames whole world in his death.
Really interesting topic! The comics are much more in-depth with backstories and character development. The cartoon and toyline were what I experienced first as a kid, and because of the nature of the show, it was "kid friendly". Similar to kids of the 90s getting into X-Men and Spider-Man through their respective animated series. They didn't necessarily have to be experts on the 30 plus years of the comics story and continuity. I think eventually fans have their own idea of what is canon to them mostly defined by their preferences while recognizing other adaptations/versions. That may vary, but I think each version has its merits, and good/bad.
Thanks. yes, I think some of the fun is being able to pick what is canon. There's bits and pieces of the Devil's Due run that I think really work better than what Larry Hama created. For example, Zartan's daughter Zanya's backstory was created in Devil's Due and is really great
I love both the comic and cartoon, I see both of them as classic pulp-fiction action adventure, that combine many genres. Take the best from both of them, going forward.
I love GI Joe RAH Cobra Commander same as I love Transformers MTMTE Starscream, evil but in a comedic way. I definitely identify more with the villain, but as someone who has studied acting, the complex characteristics of Cobra Commander and Starscream is fascinating. Especially when you wonder how characters so inept could hold that much power.
Yeah, I guess I should say I appreciate the voice acting of Cobra Commander, but he is a little bitch, and I never found that take fun. I still hear that screechy voice everytime I made him talk
Love your videos. Here's my take: I always thought of the File Cards as to official cannon, then the cartoon was part of the story, and the comic was the other part of the story. When there were contradictions, I just went with whatever was closest to the file card, or which version of the story or character I liked best. I think one of the problems with G.I. Joe and why it isn't' quite as popular as Masters of the Universe, Transformers, or TMNT, is the fact that they didn't have a consistent central character across media. Masters has He-Man; Transformers has Optimus Prime; TMNT has the four turtles, etc. G.I. Joe has Snake-Eyes sort of, maybe Duke, Flint, Sargent Slaughter, Hawk? Because of the comics, Snake-Eyes became the main character, but not in the same way as some of the other comparable stories from 80s toys and cartoons.
Thanks! Yes, the file cards are an amazing part of what makes it so great. I think GI Joe is deceptively popular, but just doesn't have a foothold in media with the lack of a good or successful movie like Transformers or TMNT. I believe the Classified series is currently outselling all the others
In elementary school a few kids collected the GI Joe and Transformers comics and they were super excited that characters died in the comics. i didnt want my characters to die back then so i didnt read.
Couldn’t agree more with you. Growing up with both the comic and cartoon, I lean more toward the comic for the on-going storylines and more realistic “people actually are shot or even die in the comic. We see a parachute for every round fired in the cartoon and the story is wrapped up in a half hour or the occasional miniseries. I also agree that we get a better understanding of less significant or even background characters as some are completely dismissed or unrecognized in the comic in the name of stronger character development of the few. I do prefer the comic now as I did then mainly due to the sheer grit and chance taking. Great job man!
This is a really good topic. I would add questions about “where does it end?” as well. Clearly the Joes of ‘84 are not the same as the recent Snake Eyes movie or even modern comics. I feel the same way with superhero comics. The characters of today in no way reflect their Golden Age (for me that’s the 80’s and early ‘90’s) incarnations. GI Joe, for me, ended with the end of the original cartoon series and Marvel comic. I picked up some alternate issues after, but they were never “my Joes.”
Oh yeah? That does add a whole other element. I do like the Red Shadows and Baron Ironblood, even though I didn't grow up with it, I want to see it added into the classified line
Chuck Dixon’s run has aged well, despite the glaring BS he did with Duke. 😂 Mike Costa is a genius IMO with his Cobra Run that intertwined with Dixon’s story.
Growing up with both the toys, comics, and cartoon; I loved all three!!! But when I played with my toys I took elements from the file cards and the comics to use. The comic to me is superior story telling, but I still enjoyed the cartoon. I just consider the comic and cartoon as different alternate universes per say. Same thing with the new Image Energon Universe comics. Those are just a different alternate universe for gi joe to grow and evolve with new stories. Canon to me is what you enjoyed the most and unlike Highlander, there can be more than one hehe.
For me, my Joe Journey began in 1982 with Rock N Roll and the Giant Sized Issue #1 of Marvel Comics during a trip to Zayre!! The comics were ALWAYS more real and interesting, more in depth, especially when it came to being given more characters, unlike the cartoon. You got way more characters in the comics, even if they weren’t as “in depth”. And most importantly, the comics were nowhere near corny, as the cartoon had a lot of corny and just plain stupid episodes. So yes, the comic was everything!! And let’s not forget that the commercials for each issue of the comics included animated segments that were before the cartoon even began in September of 1983🤙🏻 Not to mention the fact that Larry Hama created the names of all the characters from guys he actually served with in the Army💪🏻💪🏻 But DAMN is the music from the cartoon sooo good and embedded in our memories and heads to this day!! So they’re both great of course, but the comics i can still escape into to this day. The Origin of Snake Eyes, issues #26 & #27, is to this day the BEST origin story I’ve ever seen🔥🔥🔥 But the voice acting from the cartoon makes reading the comics even more fun since you can hear each character’s voices in your head while you read🙌🏻
@@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal Me too man!! The “Welcome To Springfield” issue, i think it’s either 10 or 12, was nightmare fuel for a 7-8 year old for sure lol🤙🏻
I think we agree on the comic book for the most part but our takes on the cartoon and movies definitely vary. This is I think is a good thing but it's your final analysis that to me is spot on and I completely agree with. Everyone has their own Joeverse as I like to call it and it's fun to share our various opinions of the character that to me are the cannon of the entire genre. I think it's safe to say that GI Joe is in a class of it's own with others simply falling into this category trying to be GI Joe. I don't think that's a bad thing either because that in essence backs up your final take making the non-Joe stories cannon to those writing them as their own GI Joe stories whether they realize it or not. Good video. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.
Thanks a lot. Yes, I agree GI Joe is in a class of its own. No other toy line ever did as good of a job creating backstory and lore. that is one reason why it stands out as the greatest
The "head canon" of the kid playing with the toys is important. Because not every kid had every toy or character, not just because you couldn't afford them or have time for them, but maybe because you weren't impressed with the toy version of the character. The "leader" of a kid's Joe team might turn out to simply be his favorite toy. (Duke's smiling face irritated me, even though I eventually bought it.) And it was a long time before I had Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow. Hama had his favorite "toys," and the cartoon editors had theirs. The GI Joe universe grew to be as complex as the Marvel Universe - and theoretically you could put any "A Team" of characters together to tell any kind of story. And, of course, the kid could tell his own stories with his own version. The figures were inexpensive at the time, and you could build a small army pretty quickly if that was your focus.
I grew up with the cartoon as a kid but the comic is the actual canon in my books. The story was light years bette and it was told by its creator. I mean...that pretty much confirms what the actual canon is in my books.
Yes, He is somewhat the George Lucas of the GI joe universe, although he had a lot of collaborators. It is great he still gets to write the comic to this day
I loved Cobra-La in the ‘87 movie. It was a cool revelation to me as a kid to see what the real threat to the world had been all along. I’m not sure if the DIC cartoon explored Cobra-La after that.
No,. unfortunately Cobra La barely shows up again. Although they explore Cobra Commander coming back from his snake form. The only other media I am aware of that brings in Cobra La is in the IDW COBRA SERIES, Cobra La is used as a religion that Serpentor preaches to his cult members. they actually worship Golobulous
I’m totally with you on Firefly, loved the look, and always one of my favorite toys. But, it took a minute to realize he was barely in anything!!! To this 8 yr old-he was a ninja with guns!!!
In my opinion, G.I.Joe has always been part of the Marvel Universe along with the Transformers. I always thought of the Joe's as a special division of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents under the command of Nick Fury's second in command Colonel Hawk. Cobra, A.I.M., Hydra and the Serpent Society all occupied the same space. That's how I played with my toys. I know that this isn't the case but that's my head cannon. I like the science fiction/fantasy elements that the cartoon brought and I was more than happy to to add more😊
Great thoughts and discussion. Honestly, I think the reason the cartoon had a secondary goal: bolster toy sales. Characters like Snake Eyes and Firefly didn't make the story board because their action figures flew off the j-hooks at Toys-R-Us. Alpine, Bazooka, Barbecue, and Shipwreck, however, needed help to the cash register. I still remember my first look at the Flint action figure in the toy store, seeing that bizarre, stroke-inspired facial contortion molded in the plastic, combined with the overly-tall beret, and saying, "no way". But with every new cartoon episode featuring Flint, it got harder and harder to say no to the stovepipe-beret stroke-face...
IMO both mediums are equally important. One brought children to know about GI Joe, and the other gave it a more realistic touch. And still, both are remembered and valued. As an example, I can understand why there is a rivalry between Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow, but this was in the comics, and I didn't read them until I was older. For the child 'me', it was about Spirit (Native American) Vs Storm Shadow (Japanese Ninja). And to me, this rivalry was (and still is) perfect for me. The Wise Shaman Vs the Dishonored Ninja. Only downside is that there were only 3 interactions between Spirit and Storm Shadow in the cartoon.
Yes,, very true. They both competed in my 10-12 year old brain to make a weird hybrid canon. The fact that Spirit does very little in the comic is one reason why I can't go 100% all in on the comic book
As a kid I tried to combine the storyline from the cartoon and the comic book. It got confusing. Agree with the villains. As far as protagonists, I would go with Duke. You said Hama loves ninjas. Ninjas are great but I always think of GI Joe as military. That is where I prefer the cartoon. In all, I agree with your final synopsis. Your canon is what you made it.
No doubt, cobra commander in the cartoon was obnoxious and annoying. Then finding out he was a reptile person was really jumping the shark. CC from the comics was way way better in the comics, to be a failed used car salesman to rebuilding himself up to a world leader, because cobra was a credible world threat in comic. I do have to agree with you, just about every member of cobra was way more intense and interesting in the comic.
Good vid! I'm a cartoon guy. I just loved watching it after school everyday. I recently watched all 4 seasons of ARAH. Still love the Sunbow series. The DIC had some good arcs, but a lot of it was unbearable! Lol I enjoyed Sigma 6 too. Resolute was good. Renegades wasn't bad. To this day, I still haven't read the comics, but I really enjoyed the file cards. So, I suppose my Joe cannon is the cartoon as a base, while mixing in all the other elements too.
Since Larry Hama wrote the file cards, the comic is canon! Although the cartoon entertained me as a kid, I never took it too seriously. I look down my big nose at those who consider the cartoon canon! 😜 I even observe how Hama hears the voice of CC and Destro as Orson Wells and Sean Connory, respectively. The funny thing is that I let the file cards guide the characters for me more than the comic or cartoon. I tried to follow their ranks to build the chain of command. Now when it comes to the Transformers, it the opposite. The cartoon is canon for me!
Regrettably I’m not familiar with the comics at all however I agree with your analysis. As with Star Wars I had always hoped that the live action franchises would move away from the kiddy and ridiculous aspects of them and almost mature with me as I age. Sure, kids can still get into it from the cartoons and possibly the comics as well but it’s us that grew up loving the show that need to be impressed! Love your videos brother!
Great video! My vote is with comics. While I do agree that the cartoon did have a lot more of the 'rest' of everyone else, it had way too much Flint and Lady Jaye. I feel like Flint was in charge more than Duke was. once he showed up. I watched GIJoe religiously after school every day but, maybe thankfully, was starting to age out by the time Cobra-La and all of that started showing up. I'm currently working on re-collecting the comics, as they have been lost to time since my childhood. Unfortunately, it seems everyone else is doing the same as they ain't always cheap. :)
There were clearly two canons - one for older kids (comics), one for younger kids (cartoon). But there is an interesting twist - as the comic had animated commercials that blurred the line. Comic GI Joe was the revised SHIELD comic that Hama didn't get to do.
For me the strongest Canon is my head canon. You are so right to mention it. Also the comics. Now here is the difference between you and I. I am from the UK and my canon comes from battle action force not the gi Joe comics. So our paths differ slightly here. Great discussion topic thanks
I'm a Hama/comic guy. I did watch the cartoon but I didn't like it as much. One of the things that bugged me about the cartoon was that anyone could just jump in a Skystriker or Dragonfly and go. It takes years to become a military pilot and pilots are officers or warrant officers. This kind of diminishes Ace and Wild Bill as specialists in what they do. Same goes for the laser rifle, I think. Flash becomes unimportant because everyone gets that laser. We do get to see M-16s and other weapons a bit but I would have liked if they individualized the weapons like the toys had. And yeah, I guess they should be lasers though because it's ultimately a show for kids.
As a kid, myself an friends we were fans of the movie & of the Cobra-La mythos! So as adult I was shocked to learn mostly through social media how much people hated Cobra-La🤷♂️🤯🤯
Canon for me started with the file cards. I didn’t have regular access to the cartoon or comic. As a kid, the comic left a Much more visceral impression on me. Cobra Commander’s story was so different. I only got snippets, but it was so much better than the pathetic whining character in the cartoon. However, my favorite action figure was Spirit, followed by Roadblock, so what I saw of them in the cartoon rocked. I also liked my Shipwreck figure, and that was only due to the cartoon. That said, I never used story lines from the cartoon or comic when playing with my Joe toys. We made up everything but sometimes leaned on the file cards.
My head canon looks like Sunbow and has the soul of Hama. GI Joe was just another Marvel team comic to me, like the Avengers or X-Men. A unique group with code names, individual costumes, special vehicles versus basically a knockoff HYDRA. I had Hama’s realistic characterizations mixed with Sunbow’s alternate dimensions, ghosts, C’thulu monsters, living statues, skeleton warriors, and mind control. My Joes were really superheroes and thanks to jet packs and Sunbow rifles, they could all fly and shoot lasers from their hands. 😂
That is fun. I remember when I first got the figures I got Short Fuse. I didn't know what a mortar was. I had him hanging onto the handle as it rocketed through the sky
Not sure how I ended up here, but I didn't really watch the cartoon much and I only had a couple of the comic books. I made up most of my story lines based on reading the file card info and the toy's themselves. I picked my battles and favorites based on who shipped with the best accessories and who looked the coolest to me. Snake Eyes and Stormshadow always survived. Certain figures were instantly expendable based on availability. (Lifeline) At one point in time I had about 10 of him from a cereal give away so he would get strapped up with an M80 and die in the finale of every backyard battle.
The file cards were brilliant. No other toy line has been able to replicate what Larry Hama did with them. They could take a lame character and make them really fun. For example; footloose is a simple reboot of Grunt, but when you realize he's basically a stoner/ mushrooms taking existentialist guiy, he becomes much more fun
My personal canon is a blend of sunbow, renegades, and the comic. I prefer the more serious angle, but the cartoons gave us much more depth in character development for the joes beyond snake eyes
For me, I preferred the comic over the cartoon growing up. For the cartoon, cobra had to lose every episode (unless it was a 5 episode story). Certain characters were too campy in the cartoon versus the comic (ie, Cobra Commander). The cartoon was good for having the new characters displayed more prominently to correspond with the toy release and having short stories featuring them (ie, Lifeline or Mainframe being featured as the protagonist for an episode).
Once I read the comic, I lost all interest in the cartoon. You make a good point about the portrayal of some of the side characters, but to me, the cartoon is for 4-6 year olds, and the comics are for preteens and up.
Comic all the way! As for Cobra Commander, the comic shows CC at his most evil-est in issue 100… when in the 1st page, he kicks a cute dog square in the butt… pure evil🤪👍!!!
That was the 2-part "There's No Place Like Springfield", some great episodes. The 2-parters were some of the best of the Sunbow cartoon, it was where they could really flesh out the stories.
Agreed. It's so inventive and what I didn't like much as a kid, but love now is the humor. I used to hate Season 2 and preferred the 5-parters at the start of the series that were more action-oriented, but I have the opposite opinion now. So many "adult" versions of GI Joe make it so serious that it's dull. GI Joe: The Movie is easily the best story. Still incredibly entertaining to me, particularly Duke, Cobra Commander, and the new recruits' arcs. Fantastic!
I remember seeing the first Marvel & Sunbow produced cartoons for the comics and toys. But it wasn't until I saw the first miniseries in 1983, the MASS Device. Duke is my all time favorite Joe as well as Joe leader. He's the sole reason I became interested in G.I.JOE. But
The cartoon was clearly produced for a younger audience, whereas the comic was made for a more mature audience. Its no surprise that a grown man would prefer the comic over the cartoon.
The canon for me is what ever I want it to be. I intermix the cartoon and comics. My favorite character is Cobra Commander, but I don’t treat him like an idiot, I treat him like an evil genius. In my canon, he has to be a genius. Only a genius would be able to build an entire army equipped with high tech weapons and vehicles.
So, as a guy who's been here since the beginning 1982 - to be exact, here's the thing - G.I.Joe (and likewise The Transformers) have no actual canon, which is what makes it so divisive in the first place. However, what I would say is the ORIGINS of both of these lines come from the deal that was struck by Hasbro and Marvel - the comics preceded BOTH tv shows. However, that's not totally sufficient to dimiss the shows as inferior because very easily do the shows have the massive advantage of reaching millions - there are people still today who played with the toys, but never read the comic book. In that vein, however, the personalizations of the characters were created by Larry Hama first (and Bob Budiansky for Transformers) and were put in print in the file cards (and tech specs) and THAT is what defines 'canon' is in both of these, my favorite toylines of all time. All that said, the comic book is just plain out better in terms of action. The cartoon(s) actually committed several character assassinations in order to quickly get through 22 minutes of show. Some of my LEAST favorite characters are because of their interpretations on the tv show(s). I know you aren't really talking about Transformers, but they did exactly the same thing in terms of comic to tv show.
Yes, I may get there eventually to talk about Transformers. I loved both. I know what you mean, the cartoon contradicted the file cards a LOT. Beachhead is supposed to be calm and cool, but all he does is scream in the cartoon. And Bazooka is supposed to be smart, and is complete moron in the cartoon--although that is kind of fun to play with
I'm with you on this,we would have to have a mix of the lore because I like elements from both...also,I just love and enjoy the content you put on your channel..and Destro is one of my favorite characters too..as a kid,I thought he was a black guy and so being a little black kid I gravitated towards him.He,at the time,was like me(I thought)he sounded like a black guy,had the lips that was pronounced on his mask and he liked brunettes with that junk in the trunk..did anyone see that wagon Baroness was draggin when she was in that serpent ship?
Thanks! Yeah, I think cartoon Destro is black because the actor who played him was, so I get that. He had a great voice. Oh yeah, we all noticed the Baroness's wagon😂
There are things I liked about the cartoons and things I liked in the comic books as much as I had. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow duel was good coming from the comics. But I'm used to seeing Scarlet with Duke from the cartoons instead of being with Snake Eyes as well as Lady Jay with Flint. The cartoons went often into science fiction. I always thought General Hawk from the comic book was Duke!
Now that I am thinking about it. I have probably only read about 25 issues of the Hamma books. I have picked up occasional trades but I haven't read a complete run of G.I.Joe from any company. I am much more acquainted with the cartoons. Sci-Fi is my favorite Joe so I appreciate all the science fiction and fantasy of the cartoon series.
ARAH from Marvel is my canon... up to a point. But Sunbow was a fun adaptation for kids. I really hate the term canon because it implies there is one true narrative everyone must accept. I love that there's so much GI Joe that whatever makes you a fan is cool by me... even if it's something that I dont personally incorporate into my vision.
Cobra Commander in the cartoon is tricky. The Mass Device miniseries he was pretty awesome. Not the comic book version but he was pretty cool. ...well except him hiding under the basket trying to escape but he was nothing like what his character turned in to. Liked him in that. Mass Device miniseries had a bunch of things that seemed cool but never saw again like destroy having a robotic hand.
I back the Marvel Comic series stories as the best. Plus those Mike Zeck covers are excellent. The cartoon is just fun past time & every one should ignore the entire Cobra-La garbage ;)
The relationship between Scarlett and Snake Eyes goes back to Snake Eyes saving her life - during a helicopter crash. Scarlet was stuck on the chopper, but he stayed trying to get her loose. He gets hit in the face with burning fuel. The REASON Snake doesn't have a face is because he stayed on the doomed.chopper to save Scarlet. It's hot just a "romance," but a love relationship where Scarlett will never leave his side, nor he hers. The idea of her leaving him or vice versa would be a character-breaker. You could never look at either of them again.
I think in terms of G.I. Joe, cannon is very personal. For me, Comics > Cartoon, Hawk is the Joe leader, Scarlett belongs with Snake-eyes, Stalker is higher up the chain of command than either Flint or Beach-head, Cobra Commander is a bad-ass that used to be a used car salesman, not a snake person, etc. But outside of those "core beliefs" I have room for most of the less crazy elements of the cartoon. And I agree that a lot of my characterizations of some of the lesser seen (in the comics) characters come from the cartoon, such as for Spirit, Alpine, Wet-suit, etc. Then there are characters that both the comics AND the cartoon did dirty, like Admiral Keel-haul and Grand Slam, who basically got no time in either.
True. there's a whole bunch of characters that don't do a lot in any media. Agree with all your points on the comic. I get offended at the suggestion that Scarlett is with anyone other than Snake Eyes
AGREED!
Canon. One “n”.
Same here
With all the crap that snake eyes and scarlet went through in the comics, it doesn't seem right to pair them with anyone else.
I'm comic all the way. We need a Dr. Venom and a Kwinn in Classified. That being said you do make a fine argument for the cartoon. Well done
Oh yeah, Kwinn is at the very top of my list. Also Dr Venom in a deluxe set with the brainwave scanner
I consider that the Marvel Comics written by Larry Hama being canon. He was the creator and the comics came first.
It makes sense. Definitely my preferred version
The original series 1-155 & the continued line to 155.5-307 but what about the sub series such as Yearbook, Frontlines, or Special Missions?
@@diamondsandgold1993 Larry wrote the Yearbooks and Special Missions comics. I am not sure bout the Frontlines. So what are you arguing?
I would agree. GI*JOE comics is canon but the GI*JOE cartoon expands on the comic book and makes GI*JOE better and more fun.
@@ericmadsen7470 I get that on the cartoon, but for me it's a little too silly. I really like the original mini series (MASS Device) was the best of them all.
We’ve needed a GI Joe channel like this for a long time!
Thanks!
I'll always be on the Comics side. Hama is the man wrote most of the file cards as well as most of the main comic run. There are tons of cartoons as well. Sunbow, DiC, Renegades, Extreme, Sigma Six for series. Resolute(any Joe fan that hasn't watched this really should), Valor vs Venom, Ninja Battles, Spy Troops.
Yes, the DIC stuff is terrible. Resolute is great. Wish it was longer. Renegades is really good. A new one is coming out soon, I believe
Resolute always struck me as a bit too serious. Sunbow and Hama's comics always had an ample infusion of humor in them, which gave them an extra charm and moments of levity. Maybe if Resolute had continued as a full season of episodes, they would have included some of that levity and humor, but, who knows.
@seanbeckett4019 True, I watched the entire season 1 & 2 of GI Joe a few years ago & still loved it!! Season 3 & 4 had some good arcs, but it was mostly unbearable! Lol Resolute was good, but yeah, way too serious. I really liked Sigma 6 as well. Renegades wasn't bad. The 86 movie is still great! The live films were alright. At least they gave me some awesome 1:18th figures & vehicles.
I never read the comics, but I do love the file cards! So, since basically, the cartoons the only Joe continuity I know of, that's what I'm sticking with. As for the Joe movie figures, I'm just going to turn them into new characters & or customs. Except for the icons like Snake-Eyes & Stormshadow. They can be alt costumes. Movie Duke, Road-Block, etc., they're going to be all new characters. So, Snake & Scarlet were together before he got messed-up? Also, is Tommy Japanese-American? How is he from a long line of secret ninja clan while being in the US army? Also, I thought you couldn't have a criminal record & join the military? How is Lorenzo in the service, when he was a notorious ex-gang leader? Also, CC's Cobra-La origins is a lot more interesting to me, then a pathetic car sales man, becoming the top evil overlord! Lol
It's only natural to steer clear of elements you don't care for & go all in for the aspects you do love. I can't fault Hama for that. Since, idk the characters of how they are in the books, I'll just have to use the file cards as a guide & apply that to the cartoons.
@@holonet1 I recommend giving the 80s comics a try, I didn't read them until I was about 32 year old (I grew up on the Sunbow cartoon, which I still love). I'm so glad I finally read them. The longer, more ambitious story arcs begin around issue #11, that's when the series kicks into higher gear.
I will have to see if I can find them.
My argument for the comics is the majority were written by Larry Hama because he also wrote the file cards.
Serpentor taking an arrow 🏹 arrow to the face was one of my favorite comic book moments
Yeah, Zartan has a big kill count
I love the Hana canon, but I hate that Zartan was his creator’s pet. He got ZERO comeuppance for Hard Master and Blind Master especially
First time I learned about the Battle of Hastings was serply’s trip down memory lane right before Zartan put an arrow through his eyeball - epic!
No really the arrow to serpentor's face was next to the robocop toxic waste guy getting hit by a car finale
@@fett333 the cobra island war. The weird difference of comics and cartoons at the time. So cartoons layers and fun..ok 👌. Cool.comics. people die and its metal like bullets metal.people die..and in the 90s as kid you'd know or be related to military person. A terrorist felt real. Submersion of an idea
I always liked GI Joe having standard, modern weapons, vehicles, and gear. However, Cobra having Destro as a weapons designer, I was cool with Cobra having weapons and vehicles that were a bit on the futuristic side than the Joes had
Dam bro your channel grew, good job i love anything JOE related 👍
Thanks! I'm working on some really weird stuff coming soon
"When I was a child, I played with the toys, I watched the cartoon; but when I became a man, I finally read the Larry Hama run from Marvel." - Book of Joes.
I gotta go with the comic.
great comment. Love it
Great vid and topic. I was 9 in ‘83 and remember the cartoon. In fact, when I bailed out in ‘88 (discovered both drums and girls😂) I still hadn’t realized there were comic books. I had never gotten into comics at all. In fact, outside of MAD magazine, there wasn’t a whole lotta reading. 😂 But I have gone back over the years and have appreciated the journey as well. So, while I discovered the cartoon first, I thoroughly enjoyed the comics and variations on the characters.
Who needs reading when you are a teenager when you have drums and girls? you picked wisely
Fantastic video! Definitely a topic worth talking.
I'll always stay with Hama's comics, it has some really weird stuff too, like the newer robot ninjas and their Skynet/Auto leader, but the way Larry treats the conflict and people is what made me a fan of the franchise.
I would say the biggest difference between the two is in their depictions of armed conflicts. Larry said it himself: he always felt the lack of death in the show was moral bankrupcy. Talking about a military faction -be it sci-fi, be it fantasy- needs addressing on the ugly parts too, even a toyline for children needs it.
That is a good point. It did go all Terminator in the latest run. It was fun, but I didn't love it.
That is great Larry had that point of view to show kids war is hell, while still providing an interesting story they could appreciate
Larry Hama was pretty adamant about writing some of the more absurd out there elements as little as necessary.
Yeah, he seemed to have contempt for the crazier elements. Which is weird, because the newer IDW GI Joe is crazy sci-fi heavy
and you should observe, no where near as popular or beloved @@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal
I watch your videos and I find that we agree at about a 90% clip. Cobra La is absolutely where I drew the line as a kid and to this day I will have nothing to do with it. It didn't end my collecting on the spot but that was absolutely when the decline started. Would pretty much just pick and choose what I wanted after that based on which figure looked cool or badass.
Back to the point. I like how you put it, it's all Canon, but also none of it. In my dream world we'd find that guy or girl like us in Hollywood who lived and breathed it all in the '80s and early '90s and we'd give that person a clean slate to take these characters and create the G.I.Joe universe. Basically a modern day Larry Hama. The comics, cartoons, movies, etc is all now Legends and this person can take the best elements from them all to build something cohesive from the ground up, while still remaining true to the general spirit of what we all loved as kids, and now, adults.
In my mind that's probably 75% Hama comics and file cards, 20 % ARAH cartoon and 5% everything else and/or new creative. Something along those lines.
Yeah, you are right. the only hope for a good GI Joe movie or series would be for a Peter Jackson type to treat it like Jackson did Lord of the Rings
Good point about Firefly. The similar looking Beachhead was like that for me at 8 years old. Always my favorite protagonist to use.
Good point. He's almost missing from the comic book, yet I think he tops most people's list as one of the favorites
Man you nailed it as to the better version between comic and cartoon. I love the cartoon but I cant consider it canon if there has to be one. The cartoon which I watch almost daily on youtube is totally batshit crazy. As a former serviceman I laugh out loud at the crazy aspects of the cartoon that I didn't notice as a kid.
Yes, it basically hits every weird sci-fi idea you can think of
GI JOE The Silent Interlude comic is single handedly the best Joe release of any medium. 🇺🇸
Well done video! Love the comparison of Bobfet and Fire Fly in your closing point. These characters' are solid despite how little they were used in the storyline.
How is this a question. For me, Hama was essentially to G.I. Joe as Tolkien was to Lord of the Rings and Lucas was to Star Wars. They were the three lore keepers of their respective universes.
The voice actors of the Sunbow cartoon gave so much life to the characterization of the Joes and Cobra but I pulled the plug after the 1987 movie
great video. i love the channel. with all of the joe channels on youtube you do great original idea content.
Hey, thanks a lot! That is a great compliment
Also FANTASTIC analogy about Firefly and Boba Fett!! You nailed that.
Awesome video. I do the combination canon. File Cards for name rank and background. Comics for the real world type experiences, and cartoon for some development and voices.
me too.
i love the GI Joe movie but that background was distracting AF!!!.... i would also say about the movie, that intro with Pythona is one of the best movie intro ever, not just animated!
i'm a cartoon guy and always will be, i only had a couple of comic books and now the cartoon is everywhere but the comic books are hard to find!
Thanks for the feedback. i'll kill the video in the BG for next time.
Yes, love Pythona. The good news is, You can read all the comics online for free. it's probably a semi-legal website, but it works
The cartoon was able to shape many of these characters personally much more, However the comic was able to give us a variety of combat situations and many more characters.
Some were prominent in one medium while nearly nonexistent in the other.
The cartoon is considered a classic, however stopped being produced decades ago.
The comic is STILL being printed!
Yeah, i wish the cartoon had a few more seasons. Sunbow was great. The DIC crap is awful
The comic developed certain characters more, the cartoon developed others. For example, Snake Eyes, Storm Shadow, Scarlett, Stalker, Hawk, were far more developed in the comic. Characters like Lady Jaye, Shipwreck, Tomax and Xamot, and even Sgt Slaughter, were more developed and featured in the cartoon. I look to both the comic and cartoon, for my definitive versions of certain characters.
Great topic! I think age is a factor, along with which one you discovered first. For me, it was the figures followed shortly after by the cartoon. I was quite young and didn't even realize that the comics existed until a good year or year and a half later. The cartoon was my doorway into the fandom, as you rightly described it. So, I will always have a soft spot for it. Naturally, once I started reading the comics and collecting all the back issues, I fell in love with it. I can understand now that the kids who were older than me and started with the comics had a disdain for the cartoon. I enjoy them both for what they are. And of course, we all have memories of the stories and battles we made up playing with the figures. Good call on Firefly being the Boba Fett of the Joe Universe. Such an underused character in all platforms! I guess my canon is a mix of all three.
I love em both. The comic for being so weird and fun and creating the iconic voices, and the comic for telling a story I felt was almost above my head back when I was 10 years old. But yes, a mix of all three is the way to go
I was there from the jump as an elementary school kid. First came the toys, then the comics. Then, years later, the cartoon miniseries. Then a year or two after that, the cartoon series. So for me? The comics were the Real Deal along with the figures' file cards. The cartoons was a bananas, kiddified iteration of the Joe franchise... Fun (with GREAT voice acting), but absolutely insane.
Yes, the cartoon is absolutely batshit insane. I'm rewatching it now, and i"m impressed at how entertained I am still, and that's all about how crazy it gets
Love your videos man! Always a great topic. As far comics vs. cartoon I'd have to go with the comics. For me it was G.I. joe comics + the file cards providing a base level of understanding of who the characters were, personality, specialties, ect. and the toys + my imagination taking it from there. I loved the cartoon but felt the seriousness of the comic suited me better. If you haven't checked out the new Duke and Cobra Commander comics from Image/ skybound, they are absolutely amazing! I HIGHLY recommend anybody who is a Joe fan to check these two books out. Great story with some killer artwork.
Great video. Larry Hama's Marvel comics will always be my "canon". But I still choose to believe Cobra La exists, and the Joes know the Transformers.
Cobra La is too fun to ignore
I think you hit it right on the mark. The cartoons REALLY had the universal presence with the actual toys. But coming up from the era of 64-76 Joe, Mego, Big Jim to Micronauts and Star Wars after Adventure People clicked with kids as the new standard, seeing ARAH come out in 82 blew our minds! Main complaint was always the lack of articulation in the SW line compared to Buck Rogers, Black Hole, or even cheap off the rack figures.
Then Joe comes back in full glory with Snake Eyes just as bad ass and mysterious as Fett! And the vehicles!
PLUS they fit in our SW ships AND sets!!! BOOM! Hasbro didn’t throw the gauntlet. They dropped a nuke on the entire toy industry.
As for the comic… We only had the local corner store near enough to walk/run/bike to at the time. Competition was FIERCE to get to that comic rack… So, for me at least, it was the toys and cartoons.
I REALLY wanted those comic compendiums that came out a few years back. I can’t justify the crazy price tags for them now. I’ll stick with my toys!!!🤣🤣🤣✌️🤘🇨🇦
Yeah, Star Wars had the greatest story to pull from, but are not very well-made toys. GI Joe blew them away.
I found a website where i can read all of the comics for free. Otherwise, yeah, it'd be way too expensive
If one looks at the Yuuzan Vong from SW Expanded Universe, they are essentially Cobra-La in space!
Dude! You totally read my mind on that observation. Quick read really.🤣 I think the Vong were what the Joes Cobra-La should have been. But can’t traumatize the kids. Duke came back in one piece right?!?🤣🤣🤣✌️🤘🇨🇦
Never heard of it. I'll have to check it out.
I actually really like your explanation here. It is the kind of thing that would usually really annoy me, “ the canon is within all of us,” which under any other circumstances would seem like a dodge. But The way you phrased it here, the idea that it’s whatever we combined in our heads when we were kids, yeah of course, it has to be that. You’re absolutely right. I would never have thought of it like that. It’s pretty brilliant, so yeah, I like it a lot. I am now subscribed and I gave you like.
I’d love to add that CC in comics had an older brother who died in car accident bc he was drunk.
I’d say CC still can’t overcome his grief. So he blames whole world in his death.
Yes, good point. That was an interesting story line.
Really interesting topic! The comics are much more in-depth with backstories and character development. The cartoon and toyline were what I experienced first as a kid, and because of the nature of the show, it was "kid friendly". Similar to kids of the 90s getting into X-Men and Spider-Man through their respective animated series. They didn't necessarily have to be experts on the 30 plus years of the comics story and continuity. I think eventually fans have their own idea of what is canon to them mostly defined by their preferences while recognizing other adaptations/versions. That may vary, but I think each version has its merits, and good/bad.
Thanks. yes, I think some of the fun is being able to pick what is canon. There's bits and pieces of the Devil's Due run that I think really work better than what Larry Hama created. For example, Zartan's daughter Zanya's backstory was created in Devil's Due and is really great
I just started watching your channel. Once I found out you were from RI, I subscribed. Great videos and great commentary.
Nice! Are you from RI as well?
I sure am. Newport.
I love both the comic and cartoon, I see both of them as classic pulp-fiction action adventure, that combine many genres. Take the best from both of them, going forward.
I love GI Joe RAH Cobra Commander same as I love Transformers MTMTE Starscream, evil but in a comedic way. I definitely identify more with the villain, but as someone who has studied acting, the complex characteristics of Cobra Commander and Starscream is fascinating. Especially when you wonder how characters so inept could hold that much power.
Yeah, I guess I should say I appreciate the voice acting of Cobra Commander, but he is a little bitch, and I never found that take fun. I still hear that screechy voice everytime I made him talk
Love your videos. Here's my take: I always thought of the File Cards as to official cannon, then the cartoon was part of the story, and the comic was the other part of the story. When there were contradictions, I just went with whatever was closest to the file card, or which version of the story or character I liked best.
I think one of the problems with G.I. Joe and why it isn't' quite as popular as Masters of the Universe, Transformers, or TMNT, is the fact that they didn't have a consistent central character across media. Masters has He-Man; Transformers has Optimus Prime; TMNT has the four turtles, etc. G.I. Joe has Snake-Eyes sort of, maybe Duke, Flint, Sargent Slaughter, Hawk? Because of the comics, Snake-Eyes became the main character, but not in the same way as some of the other comparable stories from 80s toys and cartoons.
Thanks! Yes, the file cards are an amazing part of what makes it so great. I think GI Joe is deceptively popular, but just doesn't have a foothold in media with the lack of a good or successful movie like Transformers or TMNT. I believe the Classified series is currently outselling all the others
In elementary school a few kids collected the GI Joe and Transformers comics and they were super excited that characters died in the comics. i didnt want my characters to die back then so i didnt read.
I liked when Hama would create a character to kill them--Like General Flagg, Scarface, Soft Master, etc. But it's hard to watch Quick Kick and Doc die
Couldn’t agree more with you. Growing up with both the comic and cartoon, I lean more toward the comic for the on-going storylines and more realistic “people actually are shot or even die in the comic. We see a parachute for every round fired in the cartoon and the story is wrapped up in a half hour or the occasional miniseries. I also agree that we get a better understanding of less significant or even background characters as some are completely dismissed or unrecognized in the comic in the name of stronger character development of the few. I do prefer the comic now as I did then mainly due to the sheer grit and chance taking. Great job man!
This is a really good topic. I would add questions about “where does it end?” as well. Clearly the Joes of ‘84 are not the same as the recent Snake Eyes movie or even modern comics. I feel the same way with superhero comics. The characters of today in no way reflect their Golden Age (for me that’s the 80’s and early ‘90’s) incarnations. GI Joe, for me, ended with the end of the original cartoon series and Marvel comic. I picked up some alternate issues after, but they were never “my Joes.”
Thanks. yeah, I'm reading the newer comic now. Some of it is great, some of it is not so
The comic went a bit too Ninja Heavy/Crazy in the 90s.
True. larry Hama loves his ninjas
Ninjas were everywhere in pop culture back then. Sign of the times.
COCO in issue 1 is savage !
i'm from the UK so Action Force is my cannon and that opens an even bigger can of worms
Oh yeah? That does add a whole other element. I do like the Red Shadows and Baron Ironblood, even though I didn't grow up with it, I want to see it added into the classified line
I always thought a team of Chuck Dixon writing g and John Romita Jr as artist would have been great on GIJoe.
Loved John Romita jrs run on Daredevil
Chuck Dixon’s run has aged well, despite the glaring BS he did with Duke. 😂 Mike Costa is a genius IMO with his Cobra Run that intertwined with Dixon’s story.
@@mamunestor Absolutely agree! The Costa Cobra comics are amazing
@@mamunestorShame his TF run was DOGSHIT.
One thing I loved about G.I. Joe Resolute they tried to resolve the cartoon and comics together. I think it did a good job with it.
Growing up with both the toys, comics, and cartoon; I loved all three!!! But when I played with my toys I took elements from the file cards and the comics to use. The comic to me is superior story telling, but I still enjoyed the cartoon. I just consider the comic and cartoon as different alternate universes per say. Same thing with the new Image Energon Universe comics. Those are just a different alternate universe for gi joe to grow and evolve with new stories. Canon to me is what you enjoyed the most and unlike Highlander, there can be more than one hehe.
Yeah, I like that take. I hear good things about the new energon universe. I need to check it out
Most excellent and insightful video! Thanks YO JOE!
I did not read the comics. But, that is where Larry Hama developed the background. So, in my opinion, the comics are the root and basis for G.I. Joe.
For me, my Joe Journey began in 1982 with Rock N Roll and the Giant Sized Issue #1 of Marvel Comics during a trip to Zayre!! The comics were ALWAYS more real and interesting, more in depth, especially when it came to being given more characters, unlike the cartoon. You got way more characters in the comics, even if they weren’t as “in depth”. And most importantly, the comics were nowhere near corny, as the cartoon had a lot of corny and just plain stupid episodes. So yes, the comic was everything!! And let’s not forget that the commercials for each issue of the comics included animated segments that were before the cartoon even began in September of 1983🤙🏻 Not to mention the fact that Larry Hama created the names of all the characters from guys he actually served with in the Army💪🏻💪🏻 But DAMN is the music from the cartoon sooo good and embedded in our memories and heads to this day!! So they’re both great of course, but the comics i can still escape into to this day. The Origin of Snake Eyes, issues #26 & #27, is to this day the BEST origin story I’ve ever seen🔥🔥🔥 But the voice acting from the cartoon makes reading the comics even more fun since you can hear each character’s voices in your head while you read🙌🏻
Ah, I remember Zayre! The comics were downright dark and adult (for a ten year old ) that's one of the reasons I loved them so
@@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal Me too man!! The “Welcome To Springfield” issue, i think it’s either 10 or 12, was nightmare fuel for a 7-8 year old for sure lol🤙🏻
I think we agree on the comic book for the most part but our takes on the cartoon and movies definitely vary. This is I think is a good thing but it's your final analysis that to me is spot on and I completely agree with. Everyone has their own Joeverse as I like to call it and it's fun to share our various opinions of the character that to me are the cannon of the entire genre. I think it's safe to say that GI Joe is in a class of it's own with others simply falling into this category trying to be GI Joe. I don't think that's a bad thing either because that in essence backs up your final take making the non-Joe stories cannon to those writing them as their own GI Joe stories whether they realize it or not. Good video. I'm looking forward to hearing more from you.
Thanks a lot. Yes, I agree GI Joe is in a class of its own. No other toy line ever did as good of a job creating backstory and lore. that is one reason why it stands out as the greatest
The "head canon" of the kid playing with the toys is important. Because not every kid had every toy or character, not just because you couldn't afford them or have time for them, but maybe because you weren't impressed with the toy version of the character. The "leader" of a kid's Joe team might turn out to simply be his favorite toy. (Duke's smiling face irritated me, even though I eventually bought it.) And it was a long time before I had Snake Eyes or Storm Shadow.
Hama had his favorite "toys," and the cartoon editors had theirs. The GI Joe universe grew to be as complex as the Marvel Universe - and theoretically you could put any "A Team" of characters together to tell any kind of story. And, of course, the kid could tell his own stories with his own version. The figures were inexpensive at the time, and you could build a small army pretty quickly if that was your focus.
Definitely Sci-fi lite, comic book version for me.
I grew up with the cartoon as a kid but the comic is the actual canon in my books. The story was light years bette and it was told by its creator. I mean...that pretty much confirms what the actual canon is in my books.
Yes, He is somewhat the George Lucas of the GI joe universe, although he had a lot of collaborators. It is great he still gets to write the comic to this day
I loved Cobra-La in the ‘87 movie. It was a cool revelation to me as a kid to see what the real threat to the world had been all along. I’m not sure if the DIC cartoon explored Cobra-La after that.
No,. unfortunately Cobra La barely shows up again. Although they explore Cobra Commander coming back from his snake form.
The only other media I am aware of that brings in Cobra La is in the IDW COBRA SERIES, Cobra La is used as a religion that Serpentor preaches to his cult members. they actually worship Golobulous
I’m totally with you on Firefly, loved the look, and always one of my favorite toys. But, it took a minute to realize he was barely in anything!!! To this 8 yr old-he was a ninja with guns!!!
YEah, he feels like such an important character, but it's all about his look, and his file card
In my opinion, G.I.Joe has always been part of the Marvel Universe along with the Transformers. I always thought of the Joe's as a special division of S.H.I.E.L.D. agents under the command of Nick Fury's second in command Colonel Hawk. Cobra, A.I.M., Hydra and the Serpent Society all occupied the same space. That's how I played with my toys. I know that this isn't the case but that's my head cannon. I like the science fiction/fantasy elements that the cartoon brought and I was more than happy to to add more😊
Great thoughts and discussion. Honestly, I think the reason the cartoon had a secondary goal: bolster toy sales. Characters like Snake Eyes and Firefly didn't make the story board because their action figures flew off the j-hooks at Toys-R-Us. Alpine, Bazooka, Barbecue, and Shipwreck, however, needed help to the cash register.
I still remember my first look at the Flint action figure in the toy store, seeing that bizarre, stroke-inspired facial contortion molded in the plastic, combined with the overly-tall beret, and saying, "no way".
But with every new cartoon episode featuring Flint, it got harder and harder to say no to the stovepipe-beret stroke-face...
Nice description
IMO both mediums are equally important. One brought children to know about GI Joe, and the other gave it a more realistic touch. And still, both are remembered and valued. As an example, I can understand why there is a rivalry between Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow, but this was in the comics, and I didn't read them until I was older. For the child 'me', it was about Spirit (Native American) Vs Storm Shadow (Japanese Ninja). And to me, this rivalry was (and still is) perfect for me. The Wise Shaman Vs the Dishonored Ninja. Only downside is that there were only 3 interactions between Spirit and Storm Shadow in the cartoon.
Yes,, very true. They both competed in my 10-12 year old brain to make a weird hybrid canon. The fact that Spirit does very little in the comic is one reason why I can't go 100% all in on the comic book
Sgt. Slaugter!!
Yo Joe!!
yeah, he is basically missing from the comic. it's hard to imagine GI joe without Slaughter
As a kid I tried to combine the storyline from the cartoon and the comic book. It got confusing.
Agree with the villains.
As far as protagonists, I would go with Duke. You said Hama loves ninjas. Ninjas are great but I always think of GI Joe as military. That is where I prefer the cartoon.
In all, I agree with your final synopsis. Your canon is what you made it.
Yeah, Hama does go ninja crazy
No doubt, cobra commander in the cartoon was obnoxious and annoying. Then finding out he was a reptile person was really jumping the shark. CC from the comics was way way better in the comics, to be a failed used car salesman to rebuilding himself up to a world leader, because cobra was a credible world threat in comic. I do have to agree with you, just about every member of cobra was way more intense and interesting in the comic.
I love CC from the comic. He's a stone-cold sociopath
Good vid! I'm a cartoon guy. I just loved watching it after school everyday. I recently watched all 4 seasons of ARAH. Still love the Sunbow series. The DIC had some good arcs, but a lot of it was unbearable! Lol I enjoyed Sigma 6 too. Resolute was good. Renegades wasn't bad. To this day, I still haven't read the comics, but I really enjoyed the file cards.
So, I suppose my Joe cannon is the cartoon as a base, while mixing in all the other elements too.
Yes, DIC is horrible. I;m working my way through a re-watch right now. I'm loving how weird it is.
Since Larry Hama wrote the file cards, the comic is canon! Although the cartoon entertained me as a kid, I never took it too seriously. I look down my big nose at those who consider the cartoon canon! 😜
I even observe how Hama hears the voice of CC and Destro as Orson Wells and Sean Connory, respectively.
The funny thing is that I let the file cards guide the characters for me more than the comic or cartoon. I tried to follow their ranks to build the chain of command.
Now when it comes to the Transformers, it the opposite. The cartoon is canon for me!
I suppose it's hard to take something seriously when they throw in crazy shit Cold Slither brainwashing everyone
@@DestroIsMySpiritAnimalYet that episode was so much fun!
Regrettably I’m not familiar with the comics at all however I agree with your analysis. As with Star Wars I had always hoped that the live action franchises would move away from the kiddy and ridiculous aspects of them and almost mature with me as I age. Sure, kids can still get into it from the cartoons and possibly the comics as well but it’s us that grew up loving the show that need to be impressed!
Love your videos brother!
Great video!
My vote is with comics. While I do agree that the cartoon did have a lot more of the 'rest' of everyone else, it had way too much Flint and Lady Jaye. I feel like Flint was in charge more than Duke was. once he showed up.
I watched GIJoe religiously after school every day but, maybe thankfully, was starting to age out by the time Cobra-La and all of that started showing up.
I'm currently working on re-collecting the comics, as they have been lost to time since my childhood. Unfortunately, it seems everyone else is doing the same as they ain't always cheap. :)
Comic book all the way. I think the Chuck Dixon 20 something issue series is great also. The first two cartoon mini series were the best.
There were clearly two canons - one for older kids (comics), one for younger kids (cartoon).
But there is an interesting twist - as the comic had animated commercials that blurred the line.
Comic GI Joe was the revised SHIELD comic that Hama didn't get to do.
For me the strongest Canon is my head canon. You are so right to mention it. Also the comics. Now here is the difference between you and I. I am from the UK and my canon comes from battle action force not the gi Joe comics. So our paths differ slightly here. Great discussion topic thanks
I'm a Hama/comic guy. I did watch the cartoon but I didn't like it as much. One of the things that bugged me about the cartoon was that anyone could just jump in a Skystriker or Dragonfly and go. It takes years to become a military pilot and pilots are officers or warrant officers. This kind of diminishes Ace and Wild Bill as specialists in what they do. Same goes for the laser rifle, I think. Flash becomes unimportant because everyone gets that laser. We do get to see M-16s and other weapons a bit but I would have liked if they individualized the weapons like the toys had. And yeah, I guess they should be lasers though because it's ultimately a show for kids.
I have always felt that real canon is a mix of two things: the file cards and ones owned by imagination when playing with the toys.
As a kid, myself an friends we were fans of the movie & of the Cobra-La mythos! So as adult I was shocked to learn mostly through social media how much people hated Cobra-La🤷♂️🤯🤯
Canon for me started with the file cards. I didn’t have regular access to the cartoon or comic. As a kid, the comic left a
Much more visceral impression on me. Cobra Commander’s story was so different. I only got snippets, but it was so much better than the pathetic whining character in the cartoon. However, my favorite action figure was Spirit, followed by Roadblock, so what I saw of them in the cartoon rocked. I also liked my Shipwreck figure, and that was only due to the cartoon. That said, I never used story lines from the cartoon or comic when playing with my Joe toys. We made up everything but sometimes leaned on the file cards.
My head canon looks like Sunbow and has the soul of Hama. GI Joe was just another Marvel team comic to me, like the Avengers or X-Men. A unique group with code names, individual costumes, special vehicles versus basically a knockoff HYDRA. I had Hama’s realistic characterizations mixed with Sunbow’s alternate dimensions, ghosts, C’thulu monsters, living statues, skeleton warriors, and mind control. My Joes were really superheroes and thanks to jet packs and Sunbow rifles, they could all fly and shoot lasers from their hands. 😂
That is fun. I remember when I first got the figures I got Short Fuse. I didn't know what a mortar was. I had him hanging onto the handle as it rocketed through the sky
Not sure how I ended up here, but I didn't really watch the cartoon much and I only had a couple of the comic books. I made up most of my story lines based on reading the file card info and the toy's themselves. I picked my battles and favorites based on who shipped with the best accessories and who looked the coolest to me. Snake Eyes and Stormshadow always survived. Certain figures were instantly expendable based on availability. (Lifeline) At one point in time I had about 10 of him from a cereal give away so he would get strapped up with an M80 and die in the finale of every backyard battle.
The file cards were brilliant. No other toy line has been able to replicate what Larry Hama did with them. They could take a lame character and make them really fun. For example; footloose is a simple reboot of Grunt, but when you realize he's basically a stoner/ mushrooms taking existentialist guiy, he becomes much more fun
My personal canon is a blend of sunbow, renegades, and the comic. I prefer the more serious angle, but the cartoons gave us much more depth in character development for the joes beyond snake eyes
Yes, mine too. I love the comic, but can't get the voices of the character's out of my head, and that all comes from the cartoon
For me, I preferred the comic over the cartoon growing up. For the cartoon, cobra had to lose every episode (unless it was a 5 episode story). Certain characters were too campy in the cartoon versus the comic (ie, Cobra Commander). The cartoon was good for having the new characters displayed more prominently to correspond with the toy release and having short stories featuring them (ie, Lifeline or Mainframe being featured as the protagonist for an episode).
I love em both, but Larry Hama is a genius, so I definitely love the comic more
Definitely the comic book for me. The atmosphere I get, that feeling it creates for me is my Gi joe. My nostalgia.
Once I read the comic, I lost all interest in the cartoon. You make a good point about the portrayal of some of the side characters, but to me, the cartoon is for 4-6 year olds, and the comics are for preteens and up.
Comic all the way! As for Cobra Commander, the comic shows CC at his most evil-est in issue 100… when in the 1st page, he kicks a cute dog square in the butt… pure evil🤪👍!!!
Anybody remember that episode where Shipwreck thinks that Lady Jaye dies and he's surrounded and mentally tortured by synthetic people?
That was the 2-part "There's No Place Like Springfield", some great episodes. The 2-parters were some of the best of the Sunbow cartoon, it was where they could really flesh out the stories.
Yep that's the one. Definitely a mind screw episode
I never read the comic book when I was a kid I mostly watched the cartoon I only started reading the comic book when I was in my early teens
It's pretty great stuff. Larry Hama is a great storyteller. The new IDW stuff is a good too. Especially the COBRA series by Mike Costa
GI JOE WAS ONE OF MY FAVORITE SHOWZ FRON THE 80S
Agreed. It's so inventive and what I didn't like much as a kid, but love now is the humor. I used to hate Season 2 and preferred the 5-parters at the start of the series that were more action-oriented, but I have the opposite opinion now. So many "adult" versions of GI Joe make it so serious that it's dull. GI Joe: The Movie is easily the best story. Still incredibly entertaining to me, particularly Duke, Cobra Commander, and the new recruits' arcs. Fantastic!
I remember seeing the first Marvel & Sunbow produced cartoons for the comics and toys. But it wasn't until I saw the first miniseries in 1983, the MASS Device.
Duke is my all time favorite Joe as well as Joe leader. He's the sole reason I became interested in G.I.JOE. But
have you read the new Duke comic that just came out?
The cartoon was clearly produced for a younger audience, whereas the comic was made for a more mature audience. Its no surprise that a grown man would prefer the comic over the cartoon.
The canon for me is what ever I want it to be. I intermix the cartoon and comics. My favorite character is Cobra Commander, but I don’t treat him like an idiot, I treat him like an evil genius. In my canon, he has to be a genius. Only a genius would be able to build an entire army equipped with high tech weapons and vehicles.
Exactly. It makes no sense for him to be the guy that screams "retreat". But the voice is fun to do
So, as a guy who's been here since the beginning 1982 - to be exact, here's the thing - G.I.Joe (and likewise The Transformers) have no actual canon, which is what makes it so divisive in the first place. However, what I would say is the ORIGINS of both of these lines come from the deal that was struck by Hasbro and Marvel - the comics preceded BOTH tv shows. However, that's not totally sufficient to dimiss the shows as inferior because very easily do the shows have the massive advantage of reaching millions - there are people still today who played with the toys, but never read the comic book.
In that vein, however, the personalizations of the characters were created by Larry Hama first (and Bob Budiansky for Transformers) and were put in print in the file cards (and tech specs) and THAT is what defines 'canon' is in both of these, my favorite toylines of all time. All that said, the comic book is just plain out better in terms of action. The cartoon(s) actually committed several character assassinations in order to quickly get through 22 minutes of show. Some of my LEAST favorite characters are because of their interpretations on the tv show(s).
I know you aren't really talking about Transformers, but they did exactly the same thing in terms of comic to tv show.
Yes, I may get there eventually to talk about Transformers. I loved both.
I know what you mean, the cartoon contradicted the file cards a LOT. Beachhead is supposed to be calm and cool, but all he does is scream in the cartoon. And Bazooka is supposed to be smart, and is complete moron in the cartoon--although that is kind of fun to play with
@@DestroIsMySpiritAnimal Bazooka is the VERY example I was thinking of. Anyway, hope I didn't use too many words in my response.
Amazing videos !!!!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Do top : BEST CHARACTERS EXCLUSIVE FROM VEHICLES
Continue the good work
I'm with you on this,we would have to have a mix of the lore because I like elements from both...also,I just love and enjoy the content you put on your channel..and Destro is one of my favorite characters too..as a kid,I thought he was a black guy and so being a little black kid I gravitated towards him.He,at the time,was like me(I thought)he sounded like a black guy,had the lips that was pronounced on his mask and he liked brunettes with that junk in the trunk..did anyone see that wagon Baroness was draggin when she was in that serpent ship?
Thanks! Yeah, I think cartoon Destro is black because the actor who played him was, so I get that. He had a great voice. Oh yeah, we all noticed the Baroness's wagon😂
There are things I liked about the cartoons and things I liked in the comic books as much as I had. Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow duel was good coming from the comics. But I'm used to seeing Scarlet with Duke from the cartoons instead of being with Snake Eyes as well as Lady Jay with Flint. The cartoons went often into science fiction. I always thought General Hawk from the comic book was Duke!
These are my feelings, all day long! I totally agree with you?
Comics... hands down.
The build up to issue #50, The Battle of Springfield is epic.
How do you feel about the new Energon comics?
Now that I am thinking about it. I have probably only read about 25 issues of the Hamma books. I have picked up occasional trades but I haven't read a complete run of G.I.Joe from any company. I am much more acquainted with the cartoons. Sci-Fi is my favorite Joe so I appreciate all the science fiction and fantasy of the cartoon series.
I never played GI Joe until I saw 2009 movie (I was 15).
So I guess my canon is what I’m writing about GI Joe
Love your name. I named my daughter after Scarlett
ARAH from Marvel is my canon... up to a point. But Sunbow was a fun adaptation for kids. I really hate the term canon because it implies there is one true narrative everyone must accept. I love that there's so much GI Joe that whatever makes you a fan is cool by me... even if it's something that I dont personally incorporate into my vision.
Cobra Commander in the cartoon is tricky. The Mass Device miniseries he was pretty awesome. Not the comic book version but he was pretty cool. ...well except him hiding under the basket trying to escape but he was nothing like what his character turned in to. Liked him in that. Mass Device miniseries had a bunch of things that seemed cool but never saw again like destroy having a robotic hand.
I back the Marvel Comic series stories as the best.
Plus those Mike Zeck covers are excellent.
The cartoon is just fun past time & every one should ignore the entire Cobra-La garbage ;)
Yes, the cartoon is very fun and memorable
The relationship between Scarlett and Snake Eyes goes back to Snake Eyes saving her life - during a helicopter crash. Scarlet was stuck on the chopper, but he stayed trying to get her loose. He gets hit in the face with burning fuel. The REASON Snake doesn't have a face is because he stayed on the doomed.chopper to save Scarlet.
It's hot just a "romance," but a love relationship where Scarlett will never leave his side, nor he hers. The idea of her leaving him or vice versa would be a character-breaker. You could never look at either of them again.