Rogers Ls3 5a are they worth £1,000 Part (1)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.พ. 2020
- Here I detail the sound of the Rogers ls3 5a vintage monitor speaker .
Designed for the BBC for their outside broadcast lorries .
using Kef b110 and Kef 27 tweeter. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
it's great that you're actually giving so much info on this vintage stuff, it's hard to find detailed opinions around.
I love watching these videos. I could quite happily spend an evening chatting to him in the pub all things hi fi.
Good review and you come across enthusiastic. All the best.
1:17 "They went mad, basically" hahaha, sounds like my kind of people :) Really looking forward to hearing these speakers. Thanks for the great content!
Great to see someone beside these classics. It doesn’t happen very often and I didn’t realise how small they actually are. They are the size of a near field monitor, like you would have on each side of a computer
Exactly how I would describe them, with the right material they are superb. In particular vocals are in a way more natural and you can get a sense of the emotion that some artists do out into a performance .However, on busy pop or rock they just seem a little slow and lacking energy. . Contrast them with Linn Kans which just boogie their socks off and really make most music for tapping fly good. Will check out some more vids, great work mate.
Back in the mid 90s I helped throw out a ton of these speakers when the old Studio B1 was decommissioned at BBC Bristol. We used to use them in the editing suits. The same studios that Tony Hart was recorded and Vision on. Bugger I’m old!
Thanks for the video very helpful. Tazz
Fantastic video I will. Stick to rebuilding my kef kits
the white circle in the middle is actually the plastiflex peeling away from the bextrene. they are due for replacement, falcon acoustic sells new ones for a decent price. thank you for all the informative reviews. i really appreciate it, keep up the good work!
Okay that’s interesting thing is they are referred to as white belly as if it’s an intentional design element.
You know in forums and as advertised on eBay personally I just won’t replace them because I’m just such a crazy bargain hunter I can’t bring myself to do it
Thanks anyway K
I should mention as time goes on I appreciate the LS 35a more and more it reveals its qualities across time you know more or less my favourite speaker certainly for quiet to moderate levels.
K
@@stereoreviewx Worth checking out Jerry Bloomfield from Falcon Acoustics (the only company today making the LS3/5a to actual BBC spec incl. exact in-house manufactured bass and treble units designed by Malcolm Jones who designed the original Kef B110 and T27) lecture from RMAF 2018 is excellent on the LS3/5a story th-cam.com/video/x9CzHERDEDc/w-d-xo.html and at around 36 minutes includes a slide on the white belly effect on speaker's performance, and significant resonance at 1k. Thing about small speakers is they show this sort of thing up. Crossovers can also drift off spec over time in these things.
Even at £1000 I can assure you - you will not regret buying a pair. In a small/ medium size room - kitchen office etc I think you will find they are wonderful. As Conrad johnsons strapline goes - they just sound right!
Find me a pair for £1000 and i buy them right now!Videos like this one raise prices of vintage equipment X10!
I just bought a pair of ROGERS STUDIO 3 and am impressed. Great sound. Get a
pair if you can before they start getting more expensive. a great
alternative to the venerated Rogers LS3/5a. The bass is impressive for the size
I've had a similar experience with the Rogers LS4A. Also brilliant speakers.
I wish something would come along to create a deeply researched, highly reconsidered and refined standard design like the LS3-5a for a larger speaker. Aside for some DIY designs, I don't know of any other loudspeaker that wasn't designed by a manufacturer. This design seems unique in that way, being designed by a broadcast company instead of a speaker company. The effort that went into this design is so deep and drawn out that it would be fantastic to see what people could come up with if they put that much effort into a large monitor, or a full sized floor-stander.
Yes I’m with you there you just get the impression it’s not a big effort being made .
The longer I have the LS358 is the more I like them by the way they just get it right which is what so many speakers don’t do.
The other thing that is interesting here and I think it’s true that they listen to the speakers a lot and change things instead of using computers and graphs.K
Very informative. Lovely channel.
Could you do a review on Rega Ela speakers,.... Big please
I have the 11 ohm LS 3/5a’s mounted on matching oak wood AB-1 subs. It’s a rare combination that brings out a little more bass without sacrificing the Rogers other virtues. They’re not world beaters, but they are great for long session listening.
Agreed
Had a pair bought them at a garage sale. 50$ excellent shape. Didn't realize what I had. Bit they where heavy. Had them for about 8 years. Still have the tweeters and the crossover board . The guts. They rocked. With my bookshelf jbls. Clear clear I want them again. But wow the price
If I only knew
Well the crossover is the most special part of those speakers you can buy the boxes and the bass drivers on eBay
My only cost you two £300
Top gear . Outta my price range . Great hobby .
Nice video Kevin! by the way, i have that beomaster 900K from the background. Very nice amplituner.
Yes, it’s so good looking and you can plug your CD player in it, you probably know
Good informative video about the pros & cons & limits of these Iconic speakers that refuse to go out of favour for how many decades, i lost count. I would love a pair even tho i'm not short on speakers but ive never heard these English worldwide Icons. People do say these excel in the midrange, so i think that's v.good advice about adding subwoofers, 1 sub under each speaker ideally. They were expensive & well out of my "s/h limiting" price range in the late 70's & very popular too in the 2 local hi-fi shops who stocked them (4 back then & zero now in p/borough)
P.S. I saw a picture of the LS3/5A's BBC spec'd & designed x/over & they have a lot more components than any 2-way speaker x/over i've ever owned , there was 3 small E:I framed & wound transformer like devices, prob E:I inductors for low-pass, but 3? maybe 1 was a step-up tranny for bass? If anyone does that? if not then 3 inductors, i've no idea exactly, but it looked busy, i suspect to give them eq for more low end, tho at the cost of efficiency, so a sub with hi-pass out would work a treat i reckon with these not getting below 60 or 80'Hz or what sounds best. Despite busy x/over it should be easy to drive, esp with sub or with the 15' Ohm version alone.
The midrange of LS3/5As is good, very smooth and polished but there is some detectable coloration consistent with bextrene cones and in particular the KEF B110 that it uses. Its sort of a quacky or cupped hands coloration that can get worse over many years as the bextrene's vulcanized layers dry up. It's sometimes known as the "bextrene quack". They did a good job of EQing most of it out (part of the reason for the complex crossover) but it's still somewhat detectable.
@@socksumiThe white ring is a sure sign of midrange peak. Its not extra doping around the dustcap but a detached PVA area due to age and use. Creates a resonance cavity.
Thank's for info. I've been looking at these for a while. And Harbeth too. yea?
Hi uh, these speakers will do a bass drum! The problem many have with these is ... 'old' equipment. They're using stuff that needs a service and stuff ... that is affordable. -Stuff meant for other speakers that do it better. If you want the best from these, hook up a refurbished Spendor D40 amplifier, get the right cables and inputs. Hey Presto, bass drums, violins, bring them on!
This was a good watch. Thanks for doing this. How do you propose I read up on a model which i cant find any information about online + the speaker is in a different state and thus difficult to demo. Rogers AS503 towers. Thanks in advance 🍻
Thanx for the review. For that amount of money they have a lot of contenders now. Even back then i'd choose mighty AR's over them any time.
Ar3a, pound for pound kings.
@Teknogod17Recorded off duty musicians from the San Diego symphony filling in for a college symphony. Use Electrovoice ribbons on a Revox A-77. Played back master on Kenwood and AR3a speakers. Great double bass and sound so good they wanted to be paid scale. Gave them 2nd Generation copy instead.
how do they compare to the newer Studio 3 which followed these? a good cheaper alternative?
Hi, I love watching your channel, it brings back happy memories of drooling over copies of HiFi magazines in the late 1970s, eyeing up gorgeous looking and exotic equipment I could never afford as a schoolboy. I have recently come into possession of a pair of IMF Electronics MCR2A bookshelf speakers. They came from a friend and I remember him using them years ago with a crummy Pioneer amp and them sounding pretty decent. Have you ever come across a pair, and if so, do you have any opinions ?
My genuine Audiomaster LS3/5a, actual ones used by the BBC, fully working, cost me £40 the pair last year. Mind you, one of the front badging was missing.
Total disaster K
Had them for a few years and was happy with their sound, minus the limited bass.
I decided to stay with the BBC 'sound' but find something that gave me better bass response.
The answer was the Rogers LS7t ( t for 'titanium tweeter')
These maintain the accuracy (especially in human voice) of the LS3/5a but add up a lot more bass extension due to their larger drivers ( 8 inch).
Also, the Titanium tweeter gives a better 'sparkle' to the highs compared to the Kef T27 driver.
Overall, i think they're more suitable for home listening rather than strictly monitoring a broadcast.
Thanks for a fine review and a Happy Christmas to you!
Love my LS7T too and appreciate you can turn up the volume - Whilst my BC1's have the most incredible highs/ midrange its like walking on egg shells when turning the volume knob
Hi
Thank you for your great reviews.
Du you think a Quad 504 is good to drive the Rogers ?
Are proac a step up?
Thank you reinhart
Proac lol ... Try Epos
That would be the Quad 405. A well engineered amp with a novel 'Current Dumping' class AB output stage. Its a 40 year old design that still has merit.
Hi, Being a big fan f your videos and I am looking for some information/advice. I am a vintage fan and have a number of vintage amps and speakers. My amps are Leak 30, Quad 303/33 Pioneer SX-450, and looking at the Leak Valve etc. My current speakers are the Qad 57s and KEF Concertos so big speakers. I am looking for a recommendation for a smaller pair to try. The Rogers sort of size. Any pointers would be good. Thanks
Certain speakers need to just be appreciated for their strengths, ar3a pound for pound best low lush bass delivery, kef ls50 imaging and 3d like and detail, great bass for their size and good build, magnepans are kings for imaging and soundstage very tough to beat for everyday use, klipsch forte sounds rich and ful bodied and dont really have a weakness i can point out, but anyway yeah, just have to note the strengths of them all and consider the room their going to be in, these rogers along with id say the ls50 for example should be all you would ever need in small rooms, but in a large room maybe wont give you all youll want.
My kef ls50's and Hegel H90 sound amazing, plenty of bass and nice details and plays loud enough in my 18 square meter living room
These LS35A's are the smaller version of the BC1.
The BC1 has really good clean bass which only a 2 cubic foot box can deliver.
if you had to pick a Pair of speakers and one receiver or power amp/preamp set up for music CD or turntable what would that be ? Cheers mate
Well I’ll tell you one of my I’ll probably my favourite combination of amp and speakers because it’s all about the combination you know that’s what makes a sound the right combination
So I would have the LS35 A’s along with my Sansui 331 receiver which is a very cheap receiver but together they just do great things maybe not for a big room K
It is interesting they have seemed to grow on you. I remember you talking about them before and sort of wondering what all the fuss was about. Maybe it was the set up and distance that changed it for you? I made a kit from Wilmslow Audio based on them, with the same drivers, back in the late 80s and throughly enjoyed them, although I do remember the B110 driver making a cracking noise with the volume turned up. My dad still has his bought in 1990 with an AudioPro sub from the old dealer in Queensway, West London.
Yes you’re right really I had them too far away I wasn’t getting the sound stage which is the great bit about them cheers K
Quick question: would the Ls3 5a be an interesting option to connect on a Marantz 2230b? Is there any other bookshelf speaker you recommend for this amplifier?
I wouldn’t think that’s a good match at all the Marantz probably wants big speakers because that’s what it does best just have the sense those two wouldn’t match
@@stereoreviewx fantastic, let me find those big speakers. thank you!
Considering a pair of brand new Sterling Broadcast Ls3/5s V2. They're in a rosewood finish, a plus, and are marked down about $800 US dollars. The size of the speaker bothers me though.I need to fill a fairly large room with sound. Also found a pair of Klipsch Heresy lll's that might be a better option also marked down. I know, apples to oranges. Nice review. Thanks.
Yeah this is just not a big sound in fact they sound good when they are about 6 feet away from you
After bought a pair of this, I must say everybody use it wrongly, this is a near field monitor, it won't fill the whole room. When things match well actually there is Bass but not super low...and it sounds accurately(want more detail, get the most dynamic amplifier out there either tube or solid state)
sir, isRogers Ls4a worth having..thanks
What bass relfex of same size did give you more "bass information" then these sealed with their gentle and room friendly rolloff?
From around 90hz down to 50...I know the KEF crestas had similar drivers and cabinet size but we're bass reflex and they never sounded boomy even close to wall
Monitor Audio Studio 2.
once upon a time i had a pair of this amazing monitor !MIss them
My wife found a pair of those 20 years ago for zero dollars .
I thought it was crap , I made some reserch and found out those are great speakers .
I drove them with a Sima PW3000 and I think it's not enough .
What de you suggest for them ?
Thanx .
They sing @80 watts Naim power. Below that dont bother.
Hmm
I still have a Rogers LSB1 stereo sub designed for the 3/5a.
Was using it for my ProAc Tablettes.
Let them go for KEF LS50s.
Wonder if I should part with the L$B1 or find some 3/5a?
The sub for LS35a it's called AB1 , it's more like a speaker stand for LS3 5a , with one B110 driver into it !
@@raduflorin6154
The Rogers LSB1 stereo sub is a pair of 6in drivers in opposite ends of a 24x16x13in chest sized divided box. Ideally it's designed to be placed between the speakers on the center line. Actually a good idea for 45°corner placement if the speakers are either side.
Ken Kessler liked it:-)
The AB1 was another attempt.
Placing subs at the speaker location is a compromise. It's rarely the best for room coupling.&qttt
@@carlitomelon4610 LSB1 , it's just a Rogers subwoofer, and nothing more , it was never designed for LS35A, it says on the spec sheet " suitable for speakers with a range from 80 to 85 DB at 1 metre" , it doesn't say anything about it being designed for LS35A !
@@carlitomelon4610 Yes that's called a " dual opposed " design subwoofer , they are force cancelling each other , if you invert one in the same direction as the other driver , you will have what's called an isobaric design ( LINN uses the isobaric design in their top range with the elliptical KEF B139 sub drivers !!
@@raduflorin6154
Not isobaric.
They're 2 separate cabinets in one box.
Unlike the KEF KC62 also, which isn't stereo.
🎵🤫🎵
what is your favorite magnet type for speakers ie alnico v neodymium etc
I can’t say I really have investigated that I’ve got strong good feelings about the owl Nico though K
@@stereoreviewx thank you i enjoy your channel. check into those magnet types I would love to hear your thoghts.
In your opinion what is the best alternative to the LS3/5A ? I just can't pay the going price for what the LS3/5As are bringing nowadays.
Not sure I have an answer for you small modern speakers that are usually expensive Are probably what I steer away from
There is of course the Caffe Coda and I mean the one with the same drivers does the LS35a
Watch it because K EF reuse that name so I mean the 70s ones with wooden veneer
They are similar but not so refined
K
Monitor Audio Studio 2. Around €350.
Hi have you ever listened to some Richard Allan speakers? Cheers Peter T
Yes I have so I couldn’t tell you what models my recollection was they never really used a good tweeter
Amazing speakers still on the hunt for these
I have a Goodman's version of these,and JR 149,to me,the JRs overall are better,the extra bass extension is what tips the scales.
Okay interesting let me say I didn’t appreciate the LS35 A’s until I got them close enough to me about five or 6 feet from me
Otherwise you just don’t get the soundstage.
I’d love to hear the JR149 is though to see what the aluminium body and shape does for sound
K
@@stereoreviewx Yes,it's because, they are by design nfm,Jim Rogers put most of the close miked studio and outside broadcast sound of 3/5a into a speaker that he intended for a home environment,hence the extra bass lift,and,I think cosmetically they are more attractive by a fair margin, subjectively of course.Cult following will, however,along with pride of ownership,and investment,keep 3/5a in front for a long time.3/5a owners maybe should buy a pair of 149s,if not liked,at least they tried them,and,who knows,one may eventually overtake the other in desirability.
Lsx-8 have foam surrounds. Often broken. 7s are rubber. I got rubber replacements £4. from China. Uhu glue to fix. EBay seller not being honest. £44 total the pair. JVC UK made the prototype. Tandy Minimus a version. Similar cone as ls3/5a . Dome tweeter. Metal csse. Minute but OK bass.
If you can get that pair for £1000 you are doing well as they are the 15ohm version, and also the 'white belly' version, which people in the far east prefer for some reason. You say that they are accurate but pretty much all 15ohm versions will have developed a nastly midrange peak at 1Khz. All 15ohm version sound slow in the bass to me and are unusable with faster music, whereas the 11ohm version is fine.
I think it is the small box with the 12mm wall panels that causes a lot of the slow/compressed problem, particularly with the 15ohm version. Put that driver in the JR149 encolsure, which is larger, and it is faster and more extended. The LS3/5a prototypes used 9mm (thin walled) cabinets and I think they are less compressed.
LIsten to the modern LS3/5as, like the Stirling Broadcast or Graham Audio (Chartwell), they also use these thin walled cabinets and vastly better croosovers - they keep the LS3/5a EQ but perform so much better.
Whenever I see stuff about the BBC, I think of that movie "Brazil" and the "central services" company. I dont think we ever had speaker standards like this in the USA, I could be wrong. Perhaps the original THX specification but thats it. That weird statue above the BBC building entrance still creeps me out and I wonder why its still there...
yeah the Bbc did spend a lot of time and money public money that is on sound ,
they even built a scale model of a recording studio to test the acoustics .
Hi Mister. Just bought a pair of KEF Coda SP1034.. Which is same speaker units in a similar size box.. Paid 100 GBP.. Don't know much about them.. Did I do an Okay job, or a piss-poor job? :) Havent heard them yet.
Oh I think you’ve done well I have Those code is as well they don’t match the sophistication of the LS358 but the vocals are really nice it’s not a big sound but it’s pretty class
Now one thing I would definitely do is rotate the bass driver
Or even if you don’t do that the point is tighten up those screws holding the bass driver nice and tight that’s a big win-win.
@@stereoreviewx Glad to hear that. :)
What do you mean by "rotate" the bass drivers? Physically rotating them in the box? Why? . .
@@stereoreviewx I'll tighten the screws.. Cheers
Love the drivers... Look great ... But 2349 for a new pair bis just too much ...500 is a fair price....
Back in time Meridian 105 gave them bass. Quad 405 didn't work for me. Care required with a 25 watt speaker. Teac lsx-7 or 8 in the same mold and much cheaper. I use a pair as TV sound.
I have a pair of Rogers Ls5a. Bought them new in 1983/4. Never heard a speaker thats better and still use them today. These must be rare as ive never seen any for sale
yes they are good they are actually still growing in value on eBay around £1200 or even £1500 hi amazing
Cheers from London K
if you need near-fields, these are the ones to get
magazines = comics.
Enjoying your broadcast. question - I have a pair of LS3/5A Monitors which we purchased new in about 1982. They are in excellent condition, boxed for the last 15 or more years. The serial numbers are S 012341B/A. I'm going to sell and wondered if it's possible to tell the actual build date without taking apart. Thanks. Larry
Don’t really know my friend it may be on the back of the bass driver also but you have to take a part
Hi Larry. Are your speakers still for sale if please let me know. Thanks
how much you want to sell?
1k? I wish. Seen current prices?
@9:40 And you know another reason why they do drums just fantastic? That's because they are closed box speakers.
Yes true
Now 10k!
So close!
Yeah......yeah....
At one time in Canada where I'm from collectors were asking $4000+ for good samples. They seem to have dropped recently where $2500 to $3000 is the median price. Are they worth it? For their overall performance... no, but for collectors value and and investment potential, yes. God knows why. They're very good little speakers but they aren't that good.
I certainly think those gold label ones going for £3000 is just silly as for people with too much money
Seeing these on eBay now over £3000.00 crazy
This is what happens when something gets popular
@@stereoreviewxthey’re just taking the piss in my opinion. If you get a spare minute have a look at my channel, I’ve got some little chario reference 100 speakers I picked up for 180 quid on there in a few demo vids, Italian speakers quite rare but very nice sounding, I bet you would like the sound if you could get your hands on a pair.
@@stereoreviewx When are you going to make a new video?
£1,000. Is it's too much, these speakers only play one type of music well. at this price is the choice in more universal speakers
New ones are £2800
The crossover in the LS3/5a is designed to roll off at around 300hz. That is why there is "no bass"
That is ridiculously incorrect.
Very small treated room okayish ... For a real modern day HiFi experience in a decent listening environment NO WAY!
Yes the longer I have the speakers what I realise is you have to be 2 m away from them that’s when they’re good 3 m 4 m no soundstage
K
Little speakers can indeed sound very good -
But they can't sound as good as a well designed, much bigger speaker. Not as wide a frequency response for the small speakers. No luck for the Toccata and fugue in D on an Organ.
$2,000 + for a set of speakers like those is ridiculous. Might be a bargain for $600.
You must not have ever heard them.
Very very good velvety smooth sound, especially with human voices (Adele and Jennifer Warnes would sound like they are there singing in front of you) and majority of jazz music instruments eg. piano, saxophone, guitar, violin etc. But way Over rated. They were designed to reproduce the main spectrum of human hearing in a "small' room/environment. They don't have enough speed and attack and would struggle with more complex musical pieces and in larger rooms!!.
Yes larger rooms I agree with the mid range is sublime
They were designed to work in the back of a BBC broadcast van in a space four feet by six feet and give a flat frequency response in that space.
@@michaelnorth3666 yep, I’m no speaker design expert but the crossover looks like a giant internal equaliser, bumping up certain frequencies
I don't think they're worth a grand.
They are a fata morgana, 500 would the logical max. Lots of more modern contenders.
not worth it
Sander Koning That’s not really an argument. Please explain why not?
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 to expensive
Sander Koning Okay
Their pricey, but incredible, midrange magic and vocals are literally unmatched except maybe against the anthony gallo nucleus refence models i had (and i mean by previous big speakers owned, forte, heresy, etc) i own the original chartwell early versions and had kef ls50s also, love them both, their imaging and midrange and vocals are top notch, but if you do more modern electronic bass then maybe not for those people.
Perhaps the most overrated speakers ever?
He’s not very articulate. Too many ‘umms’ and ‘ahhs’.
Do your homework first....
How would you review these speakers? This guy came across ok to me and I sensed his genuine enthusiasm.