Whole heartedly agree! I’m rolling 24-34-42 with an 11-36 cassette. Plenty of highs and lows for anything I encounter and the ten tooth jumps on the crank makes for a good “bailout” when you need it. Also the components are affordable, strong and widely interchangeable!
I've kept my triples too. The return to triples is a grassroots movement that flies in the face of what the manufacturers want us to buy. On the other hand there are plenty of good front derailleurs for sale from the people that drank the 1x Kool Aid.
Oh boy. The 20 year old 3x9 Deore Lx with 22/32/44 I had up to last year had the best drivetrain of any bike I owned. I feel like gravel bikes and touring bikes should come with 3x9. The new shimano cue 2x11 has similar range so I am waiting to see that. Maybe it can help fill the void in my life that selling the 3x9 made.
I like those older triples with the 64mm BCD, you can even fit a 20T small cog on there: th-cam.com/video/tPbru0dAdmU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Wk3BY6A6fKzqGlH3 I run 3x10, now with a 900% gear range.
Or you can find an old Sugino Impel triple crankset with 42-32-20t chainring then pair it with a 7 speed cheap shimano cassette 12-32t. It's even lower. And cheaper lol. I'm using this ratio on my Trek 520 now.
Got a bike with 1x11 and was a bit disappointed, so 4 months in converted it to a wide range double - absolutely love it now! With a bar end friction for the front mech and indexed at the rear I can go anywhere on that thing!
I need to find a way to put a front mech mount on my new lefty- that I didn’t actually want. I’d rather have the 3x10 on the bike that was taken out by a driver.
@@GADonMc I still have a 3x10 XT groupset on a 2008 Scott Aspect 20. I find it astonishing that bike industry simply refuses to sell this to me now. I go between roads/fire roads/trails. When I went from 3x9 to 3x10 I lost 4 teeth on the large ring and I complained about spinning out even then. I'd be gutted if I had to go 1x.
I use 3x8 for my touring bike. Front: 22/32/44 (XT crank, little Ring Shimano steel, middle ring Surley steel, big ring Aluminium Stronglight) Rear: 11 to 32 (old XTR!) XT 7 Speed Front derailleur and XTR 8 Speed Rear derailleur with dumbies Thousands of kilometres, never a problem 😀
My last experience with gears was a 90s MTB(later turned commuter with 1" slicks) with 3X7. I think that was a good system, no extreme chainline issues or too thin chains.
I have this exact VO triple on my Soma Pescadero rando build. I love it! It's so beautiful and classically styled. Really great quality build, and it provides me with all the gearing I could possibly need. I have it set up 3x9 with microshift derailleurs and friction shifters and it's fantastic, my favorite drive train on any of my bikes. Simple, beautiful, functional, perfect.
Yes, I'm in the triple camp. 3X8 versatile and the most robust chain of the multispeeds. Skip the indexed left shifter and trim out any front shift. Also, it permits "dumping" the chain onto the bail- out gear. For me, the evolving of the complexity of bike transmissions stops here. The 90s sure was a good time!
Touring bikes had to make do with hand-me-downs from the mountain bike market. As soon as MTBs grew out of road bike tubing and got fat with weird frame geometry, road bike triples had a brief and schizophrenic existence. They were generally too highly geared (like 50-40-30, or 52-42-32), eliminating much of the range advantage of a triple chainset. Quality front MTB changers wouldn't fit and spacers restricted the throw, leaving the tourist to hunt down and experiment with old stock in the hope it would nudge the chain in the right places, while being in walking distance of the big ring. Even today, a dedicated touring groupset has yet to be made.
@@KarlosEPM Thanks, we are not alone. Thankfully there are a few like Velo Orange that serve us in the niche market. We know the mainstream bike industry doesn't . Cheers! Enjoy the ride!
I'd rather have a double than a triple. I went from a triple, then to a 1X, eventually found that double is the best for me. Sold all my old parts so i basically have no parts bin.
@@sepg5084 That's fair. A double seems to be a good compromise, and there's more parts available on the market. I myself prefer a tripple, but have nothing really against a double with optimized ratios for how I ride.
I would have cleaned up those older Deore parts. Make them match the beautiful new parts on the beautiful new bike. The new shifter you will take about in the next video is bad azz.
Our tandem has the old Ultegra 3X9 with 11-32 on the back. We got it used and we're not a powerful team, so I shrank the granny to 24, and after adding some shims on the granny, it reliably shifts from the 24 to the 42. It opened up more route options for us.
Changing the spacing is essential. Built alot of tandems. I would often put a Third Eye Chain Watcher on the seat tube ....an excellent insurance policy for $10. It was impossible for the chain to not land on the smallest chain ring with one installed.
All my bikes have triple chainrings. On the front, I have 46-40-26T and on the back an 11-36T 10 spd cassette. This produces a wide gear range from 118+ to 20+ gear inches. The large chainring is used with the 8 smallest cogs on mostly flat terrain, the middle chainring can be used with all the cassette cogs in rolling hill areas and the small chainring works with the 6 largest cogs for those leg-busting climbs. This combination produces about 24 usable gears that cover all cycling conditions.
I'm weary of reaching for the front derailleur shift lever. I'm going back to a double, but done smart: 45/28 front and 13-28 rear (7 speed). For loaded touring the front might be 42/24. Unless I'm climbing, most of the time the chain will stay in the big ring, and I don't need a long-cage rear derailleur. It's not perfect, but it's simple, and it's enough now that I no longer race.
Triples are great for certain bikes. My loaded touring bike started as 3x7 half step plus granny. Now it is 3x10. With changes in shifters, both derailleurs, cassette, rings, and chain. Same crank arms, bottom bracket, and same rear hub. It will climb any mountain with ease and has all the right middle gears for 99% of riding. Also have a triple on a road bike. 52-42-24 rings and 13-28 nine speed rear cassette. Perfect for any mountainous ride. I've taken it several times on week long mountain rides. Also works perfect for everyday riding with the good sized outer and middle rings. Triple cranks are right for many bikes.
I moved from the Cotswolds in England where a compact double (50/34) with 11-28 was fine for all but the toughest hills on the road to northern Lancashire, near the Lake District, where there’s plenty of easy, flattish gradients interspersed with some monster hills - especially in the Lakes. Factor in ageing, much more hill climbing and rougher, windier weather, and a 10, 9 or even 8 speed triple just feels more fun to ride. Small weight penalty, but it’s made up for by not having to grind up hills like I could when I was 30 😂 I reckon some people get put off using triples because they find the extra chainring fiddly to get used to.
I'm sold. Just converted my bike to 3x10 with a Velo Orange triple. I can make it up that steep hill to get to my house now, no matter how long of a ride I take.
Yes they do . The mis match will require more precise adjustment.Possibley extra noise and hesitation will remain. Will go out of adjustment sooner. Suntour's 7/ 8 were the same for road bikes bikes ...Shimano's 8s cassette worked nicer.
I run 3 x 7 on two bikes, 3 x 8 on one bike, and 3 x 9 on one bike, all with downtube shifters. Some indexed, some friction. Equipment choice will be an issue going forward, unless someone keeps making the cassettes and front changers. I forgot 3 x 9 on a couple of mountain bikes!
1X drivetrains are another bike industry fad-and-fashion. They are useful for commuters and those in flatter lands but when you have a loaded touring or rando bike in hills and you're fatigued, there is nothing like a well-matched triple set. Give the industry another product cycle and watch them return. It would be interesting to hear Igor's comments on matching derailleur capacity with triple setups... on my touring tandem with a triple, I am pushing the limit of what my Deore LX SGS derailleur will accommodate.
You have the "useful" completely backwards. They are less useful on the flats, they are only helpful when jumping while using narrow wide chain rings to stop chain drops
1x was driven by rear suspension design. From the engineering perspective, as a drivetrain, is as bad as it gets. Heavier and cumbersome cassettes/derailleurs, more expensive to produce, bad chainlines, finicky setup. But it went well anyways aided by strong marketing, programmed obsolescense of 2/3X by Sram/Shimano and crutches like electronic shifting. Modern MTB is gravity dominated so gearing is of a second concern. Hell, you can even GWIN a DH world cup race without a chain nowadays.
@@puntoycoma47 1x for rear suspension does make it easier to design anti squat, but now you only have 1 ideal gear speed for a given squat instead of 2
The smaller jumps from ring to ring are nice, especially as you increase the ratio spread of the chain ring. On my old 3x7, one ring up front was equivalent to about 2 gears on the back. Compare that to my GRX setup where going from one ring to the other is 3-4 gears on the back depending on where you’re at on the cassette. I find myself always moving 1-2 gears on the cassette most times I change gears on the chain ring, the difference in ratios is just too big to plan around.
The Ultegra 3x10 was great. The front derailleur was reliable, and each front ring combined with the middle cogs of the back cassette produced a highly useable gear. It always felt smooth and efficient.
My old school Trek 950, 930 all have triple 3x7. You can ride anywhere and still have top end. The original gravel /tour/ all-around bikes . Oh, and made in the USA .
I just got a 1993 GT mtb to make a chill dad bike out of. I just assumed I’d convert it to 1x from a triple because that’s just what you do now. After a few rides with the triple it came with I really think I’m going to stick with it. It lets me do whatever I need. I’m pretty shocked how well it operates now that it is perfectly indexed.
Back in the 9 speed days, I used to have a Campagnolo Chorus gruppo with a “Racing T” triple. I’ve always been a natural climber (135lbs, 5’8”, no sprint to speak of, but able to maintain 80RPM for hours) and I wanted more gears so I could keep my cadence up my favorite climbs, so I had it built up that way - 27 speeds with a 30 tooth small front chainring and a 29 largest cog in the back. I think this was right at the start of the high cadence movement in pro cycling but I wasn’t that into racing… I just knew I liked the high cadence and I was MUCH faster uphill in those gears. EDIT: I also had a Cannondale ST800 touring bike with a Suntour 3x6 and a 28 front / 32 back smallest gear. What a joy that was. Not nearly as fast as the Racing T setup on my road bike, but I remember training with bricks in my panniers (what an idiot.)
l live in a hilly region and just as most other riders around here do I mostly use the middle chainring. To make the chainring last considerably longer I get the ones made of steel and not having any pins or ramps. But that setup works best with non-index shifters.
I found it interesting, entertaining, and educational. One of the issues I have discovered with a triple, is that they don’t work nearly as nicely when one is using a frame with a short wheelbase, ie, a racing type frame. . .
I have a 50-39-30 triple on my road bike. I hated the 16T jump on the 50-34 compact crank my Synapse came with. The 34T chainring was either was too small or large. The 10 and 11T jumps between front chainrings just seem to work. The 39T chainring is ideal for those long, 1-2% grades, where I can use the middle 4-5 gears on the cassette.
Bought the Specialized AWOL in 2014 that came standard with triple gear crank, Shimano flight deck shifters and derailleurs. Use the bike as a commuter mainly, with light loads. The area around where I live has a few steep hills, so the triple comes in handy when carrying that extra load.
Well, simplicity _is_ an argument in favour of 1× for MTB: fewer moving parts to clank around, get covered in mud and obstructing the suspension. I still prefer the versatility of 2× though, particularly for hardtails that are used both on- and offroad.
Aesthetics? The 1x is so ugly with that monstrous cassette, thin chain, add to that the disc brake makes for the ugliest bike ever. My eyes can't even look at that enormous rear mess.
I always run a triple crank on my mountain bikes. I firmly believe that more gear ratios are much better than fewer. I really don't understand this weird fascination with 1x drive trains. If I lived in a much more hilly or mountainous area, I would have a triple on my road bikes too. Thank you.
I’ve been mountain biking since 1996 and you can’t change gears fast enough on a 2x or 3x to be effective and efficient on trails. Plus you need room for the dropper remote on the left. And the dropper is way more important than more chainrings. No way would I, anyone I’ve known since 2016 ride anything other than 1x on actual MTB trails. Thats just silly. It’s as silly to mtbrs as to roadies on a 1x.
For cost, reliability, and specifically simplicity, I'm running a 48/38/28 with a 14-28 7 speed cassette. But why does this triple work better for me, instead of smaller chainrings? It's because (and here comes the simplicity bit) I use the middle 38 ring as a 1x, and only use the inner and outer rings to give me one lower gear, or one higher gear. A lot of folks struggle to run up and down the gears using a triple, but using them in the way I have described makes things very easy indeed, effectively giving me 9 gears to choose from, without ever having to look down and see what gear I'm in. I get the simplicity of a 1x (by just using my middle 38 ring), with the added bonus of a wider range, More by luck than judgement, I jumped off the "gears arms race" 40 years ago, when it got to 7 speed indexed, and I'm glad I did, because everything works really reliably, is very cheap, and lasts a very long time. I use Deore front and rear derailleurs, plus matching indexed thumb shifters, but I carry a simple friction down tube lever in my spares kit, just in case I have to jerry-rig an alternative gear change if I'm on tour. By sticking to this gear set-up, I've not really needed to buy anything, other than a chain and cassette every 10,000 miles or so, for a total price of around £20. In other words, a tiny fraction of the cost of modern 1x systems. For all riding apart from racing, this is all most people need.
I’d love to have triples as the norm again. I feel like I can never get in the right cadence in my 2x11. Never had that problem in my 105 triple or my Ultegra 2x10. Even with a 34-32 climbing gear I feel like I’m riding up a wall. Currently considering going to either a 48-32 or 46-30. Maybe I’m just getting old?
It doesn't matter what the norm is or what everyone else has, just what you want and need. I will never understand trendiness. Seems so asinine and weak.
Hey back in the early 1980’s before I’d heard of mountain bikes, I had a triple TA chainring setup on my Dawes Galaxy road touring bike, with Specialized heavy duty tyres for off tarmac adventures
My favorite drivetrain of all time was a Shimano 5700 series 10-speed 3x on a rehab'd 1980 Lotus Legend (originally sold with Shimano 600 3x). It shifted beautifully w/ its brifters each and every time, even abused under load. Yes, the front derailleur brifter throw to the outer chainring might have been longer than a double, but it was so easy to throw it didn't matter, it was just a data point. There were a few gearing overlaps, but I just viewed it as having options depending on which chainring was in use and the terrain - I guess I had internalized the gear chart. ;) That bike has a happy new owner now. While I enjoy my more "modern" 2x drivetrains, I will always miss that 3x, not to mention the vintage rando machine.
In my mind, triples go with freewheels. With an 8sp cassette and up, doubles begin to shine. I have a 40/26 on my heavy touring bike and it rocks. Call me crazy but I coast downhill and 40/11 is plenty for my needs. 9sp, downtube shifters, 11-34 in back. Triples exist post-half-step not for the granny gear but the top end. You can replace the big ring with a bash guard.
I prefer a triple to do something like 52/39/26 with a 14-28 9 speed cassette rather than the big jumps between gears on a wide range double. The middle chainring on that setup has gear inches from 42-70, which is pretty perfect for cruising. A high of 100 gear inches and a low of 25, plenty for anything, and simple to shift.
I have 3X8 Claris set on my winter bike/wheel-on training bike. I have a 3X9 Deore LX rear / Sora FRD3030X front (for tire clearance) set on my hybrid-to-drop bar conversion. I still have the 3X9 Deore flat bar shifters, in perfect order, in case I ever want to go back. I won't. Triples certainly have their place, especially on a day when I'm not feeling energetic. Square taper for the win!
As someone who runs single speeds (and has used 1x and 2x) I always reverted back to the trusty 3x (specifically 3x6) because I love the wide range and the truck/tractor like behavior from that heavy little 18 speed mountain bike since I use it a lot like such. I tow and commute and off road (for fun and home use) and the 3x is such an amazing drivetrain for all around and rugged use while I have my trusty single speed track bike for my sporty road racing and indoor training😎
I'm with all the 3x fans here, its disappearance in the general marketplace baffles me, not that a front derailleur is not needed on certain bikes--some mountain or crit or gravel, et al. And if anyone has never ridden a 3x, just do what I do, convert a 26" mountain bike into a commuter with panniers and lights and such. Then ride over hill and dale to the supermarket, load up the panniers with your groceries, and O my, on the ride home you'll be dropping into the granny gear up those hills. And you'll be happy you left the campus bike at home. But seriously, a 3x can protect your knees from the damage of pushing too large a gear because, O yes indeed, it promotes gear changes like all the time and that's a big part of the fun, keeping your revs in your sweet spot, wherever that is for any given rise or climb or whatever. And thanks for this vid, Velo Orange, the cycling world needs more 3x promotional videos for those of us who ride off-campus a lot. 😀
Friction shifting negates compatibility issues. I’m very happy with 42/33/22 on 150 mm TA Zephyr driving 11-42 10s cassette; lots of range and not too gappy.
Honestly these “one-by” systems have crazy chain angles and it’s super hard to adjust the derailleurs just right. I kind of regret buying 2 1x11 systems.
I'll give up my triple when they pry my cold dead feet from around them! Awesome choice of derailleurs BTW. Deore DX is my all time favorite...best looking by far and totally bomb-proof! In the early days of ebay I would scoop up NOS and barely used units and never paid more than 10 bucks for 'em. Still have enough leftover for like 5 builds and I just put them on my new Riv Atlantis last year. I've always said that when the nuclear apocalypse comes, the only thing left will be cockroaches, and Deore DX derailleurs! Peace!
This was my take away from the vid too... Growtac is making friction brifters??? Had to google it and was not let down. Edit: not that I don't love triples... I have them on my commuter/grocery getter, vintage ATB and randonneuse.
Been on a 40/30/22 for three years now. Holy moly, when you need low gears, you got them!!! and I have absolutely no need for more than 40*11 big gear.
I can't sustain much faster than about 18 mph on the flats and I like the granny gear for steep climbs.. I think a 1x with a wider range on the cassette works pretty well. MT bikes today works for me.
So many shifter types just don't trim triples well. Old Ergo's 11 clicks of goodness was the best "not" triple front shifter ever made. When you live near highback waterfront triples just work.
For me the best triple is a half step with a granny gear. With a 52/47/28 and a only a 5 cog 14, 17, 21, 26, 32 freewheel I get a range of 23 to 100 gear inch with less than with 11% or smaller jumps down to 38 gear inch and then 3 more bail out gears. The shift pattern is simple and logical. There are no redundant ratios. Shifting from 47 to 28 and back for the bail out gears is no problem whatsoever when using a “dog fang” chain catcher. With 7 or 8 speed cogs the range can get even wider with smaller jumps
HS+G is definitely the best triple set-up for touring/road-oriented applications. I feel like it could be good on trails too with different chainsets, but i haven't tried yet... I bet 44/39/22 would be rad with an 11-32 out back on a 26". But I've got some 80s-era Japanese touring bikes with the HS+G set up, and they're so nice for long leisurely road rides. The redundancies of the more common 50/39/30 and 48/36/26 triples kind of annoy me, even if mush of that is about my own OCD....
And how about a free hub designed for a 5 or 6 cog cassette for a no-dish 130 or 135 mm OLD rear wheel? V-O could be the HSG source. For marketing-nothing is more fun than dancing the half step with granny.
I had half step plus granny on my first loaded touring bike. Trek 520 from 1991. 50-45-24. Trek didn't get the half step very correct. But it worked. Matched with a 7 speed cassette. Bar end shifters. I was very happy with it on several loaded tours. But I eventually upgraded to STI and 10 speed cassette. And different chainrings too. Shifting is much easier to do linear with STI. And with 10 speed cassette, you have enough cogs to get the same small, constant percentage change in gears. So unless you have a fetish for staying with 5 or 6 or 7 speed freewheels or cassettes, there is no reason for half step plus granny today. Unless you are scavenging old parts out of boxes to build a bike. But not if you are buying new parts.
@@russellseaton2014yes of course a 1x10 STI works as a wide range touring set up and is simple to operate. I’m all for anything that makes cycling more enjoyable for others. I personally prefer the little bit of additional interaction with my bike that the HS&G requires. I also resist following the crowd to the latest thing. My bikes are unique expressions of me. I like re-using existing bikes (and other material goods) instead of producing more for some small incremental advantage or to be with the in-crowd or as a status symbol The slight downsides of 1x10 STI are cost, mechanical robustness, and that cogs smaller than 13 teeth cause lower drive train efficiencies. When there are old “obsolete” 1x10 systems wasting away unused maybe I will build one up.
Andy Wilkinson is arguably Britain's greatest ever cyclist, and almost certainly Britain's greatest ever amateur cyclist. He has held every long distance record imaginable, breaking the killer 24 hour record at near 50 years of age. He rides with a triple chain-ring. If it's good enough for him.........
The Sora front mech has a problem. That massive cage geometry gets caught on the triples I've tried it on. Chainring spacing obviously has something to do with it, but so does the range of chainrings used. I was very disappointed verging on rage after buying one. What I'm using now and have used for a decade now is a Dura-Ace early (thirty-ish year old) double that has the travel to handle a triple set-up.
Triples are just an overcomplicated double. If you prefer using them that's fine, but it's really just 1 chain ring too many. I would say that there's probably more utility in triples for trek/mountain bikes than there is for road bikes.
You know what the funny thing is? My hybrid came with a 3x, and I told myself I’d “upgrade” if I could find something that it couldn’t do. On fast roads I get to use the big ring, and on dirt paths/hills, I bail out on my small ring. The rest of time I’m cruising comfortably in my middle ring. When I couldn’t go fast enough on the big ring, I just got a road bike instead. That 3x chainring was probably the biggest mitigator every time the N+1 feeling reared its head and tried to convince me to buy a new “upgrade”/bike. It’s definitely something to be so lazy about “upgrading” from your 3x that you get people coming back to it and singing its praises over the 1x/2x 😂
Just cobbled together a mix of NOS ultegra and 105 for a 3x10 group on my old Audax. Nice 3x10 brifters are definitely getting a bit thin on the ground.
My old mountain bike came with 3 rings and it’s is 27 years old and I’m 64 . Freedom is riding! I wish you would have explained how to size up the chain.
Great video and thanks. It's fascinating to see bikes being build using vintage components. Maybe building NEW bikes the way they used to be built will become more than a fad? I've been running triples since the 80's and don't ever plan to stop. I just dig 'em. However, I'm a little scared by the scarcity of new compatable components and worried by the demand for the those lovely Shimano Deore long-cage rear derailleurs.
You've probably started something now with the 1X snobs! Fact is 3X's are awesome! Great range, allowing for small steps between cogs, and all for very little weight (if weight really bothers you). I just built a semi custom flat bar touring bike last year. 3X10, with 24-32-44 up front, an 11-36 on the back, with Deore indexed thumb shifters. 600% range and some really low end gears for times when you need it. I have 14 actual unique gears with at least an 11% step between and without overlap - almost perfect. One tiny wish might be to replace the indexed front shifter with friction, as long as it can be mounted on the bar. I'm looking for ideas there. Not a fan of bar end shifters. But I do like friction shifting for the chainrings where I can always get the derailleur in perfect placement.
124mm BB spindle? I have a Sugino XD triple setup with 113mm BB on a 68mm bottom bracket road frame. Love my Sugino triple setup 48-38-24, IRD Alpina front derailleur, and Rivendell friction ratchet shifters....Just heaven my friends!!
How does he come up with the 124mm recommendation? I've got a 120mm (Shimano 3N) traditional cup-and-cone loose bearings spindle on a standard 68mm bottom bracket mtb frame. I'll try to stick with this setup, and if it doesn't work, I'll go with the cartridge square tapered bottom bracket. I'm not sure how getting a different length spindle will affect my chain line.
i run a 3x10 shimano xt set and i love it so many people tell me to go with a single chainring but i just don’t understand the appeal about it other than saving a few grams of weight lmao
I started out riding over 50 years ago with a triple and still ride with a Campy Racing T and 10 speed set up. Here in New England old guys need old tech.
I started mountain biking and wrenching in the 80’s with thumb shifters and 3x7. I miss the versatility of a triple on the mountain bike, big ring to ride to the trailhead, middle for up and down singletrack and the granny for steep climbs 😢 But…….. I dont miss chain suck in muddy conditions, chain drop at inopportune moments on technical terrain. I may have to put a triple on my hardtail to see if the tradeoffs are worth it. Good for touring though.
Grease on BB spindle tapers?? No, no, no!! This is a guaranteed way to stretch the square tapered hole in the cranks as they slowly work their way up the spindle, during which time always needing to be retightened. Maybe folk are confused with cottered steel cranks (remember them?) that definitely needed grease. There are a few areas on a bicycle where friction is needed (e.g. friction shifters, brake lever clamps, seatpost upper clamps, etc.), and crank tapers are one of them. Their tapered surfaces should be deburred (if damaged from being ridden loose), cleaned and thoroughly degreased, along with the spindle's tapers: grease or heavy oil is used on only the threads of the crank bolts, but never under the bolt heads or washers. Doing this will guarantee cranks that never loosen, let alone need periodic bolt retightening, and they will not creak or squeak either. In my fifteen years as a bike shop service manager I saw plenty of cranks that had been stretched so that a longer spindle was needed to maintain the correct chainline, and whenever a customer came in saying "I was JRA when my pedal thing fell off" we would always find grease on the tapers, especially if nutted spindles were used. Galvanic corrosion isn't a problem with the crank/BB interface, so grease isn't needed there for that reason either; if a crank doesn't want to come off, a minute or two with a hot air gun will always pursuade it to loosen. Also, painting grease onto the top of threads is useless because most of it will get pushed off when the parts are threaded together. Grease should be pushed down into the thread's root where it's needed, and fingers are still best for this task. Fingers also tell you if a thread is rough and may first need to be chased.
@@daniellarson3068 PTFE tape is intended for tapered threads, and usually is pushed out of the threads when used on straight threads. It is a thread sealant, not a thread lubricant.
I had a quad at one point. Back when there were gear ads in Outside, I ordered the quad gear. It was a tiny chain ring, and it fit into already existing holes, I guess for the granny gear. I was cheap, weighed very little, and not particularly useful, overall worthwhile. The main problem was that it was useful for certain things, but getting into it was difficult. If you shifted early, your feet would be spinning so fast, while at the same time contributing so little that you would fall over, or if you waited to late to shift, you might come to a stop, and fall over. But once you figured it out, it was easy to manage.
I have two bike with triples. One is an 86 Rockhopper with Shimano Deerhead groupset the other a 2004 Cannondale Gargoyle XT. That small cog is a bailout. Never had an issue and the old groupset still works (some parts replaced) Why the hate?
My 1994 Diamondback has Shimano LX 3x7 with front derailleur indexing! It’s wild how well it works, nearly flawless. I recently bought a new mountain bike with Deore 1x12 and surprised by how much I’ve grown to like it. It too is flawless, not sure how long it will last though. Time will tell.
Enjoyed this trip down memory lane with the old Shimano groupsets. I had mtb in the late 80's (LX and DX) through a Klein Palomino I bought in 2002 which featured XTR. The Klein still works well, and I still ride it occasionally.
I can't believe I didn't buy a stack of them when you could get Campag Record 50/40/30 for £50 in the UK. Having that "get out of jail" card with such an easy gear as backup changed everything.
I think the triple, double or single chainring discussion, also has to take into account the terrain the rider rides on. Saying that, even on a touring bike I would be happy with a double. A wide range double gives you a bailout gear and a general use gear. Something like a 30/46 should cover most terrain if you add an 11/36 cassette.
Half step produces a tighter range of small increments in gear inches between 65&100" than any other combo. That's where you really need a tight spread. Throw in a granny ring and you've got perfection for all road situations loaded or not.
I have a z Lemond triple. I’d say the main thing it has that a compact double doesn’t is more mid-range gears. It has it uses. I think really the biggest detriment to it is that it’s a bigger hassle to take apart and clean. Tuning the FD can really be challenging also. (Using a 2012 11s Athena shifter and FD w 9 s 6500 Ultegra crank and RD which works great.)
It took me all these years. I have heard of other extolling the virtues of half step. I could run the gear calculations and see that it made perfect sense, but all the bikes that I ever get have doubles with a 10 to 12 difference on the chainrings. I finally found an eBay triple crank with half-step plus granny and I am now a convert. It is a simple gear pattern and I don't have to find a gear. Nice nod to triples. It is not wasted on me that you have some nice triple cranks at VO.
I have a 3x (24-36-46) with a 10-speed 11-28 cassette. I was thinking of changing the 46 for a 48, but I don't need to go that fast on two wheels. Never going for 1x for my riding as I like to dial in the correct ratio and I don't like the large jumps (I love stepping through my 11-12-13-14-15 range on my cassette).
I've ridden thousands of miles on my VO Triple since 2014. It's super easy to find the perfect gear for every situation (including heavy loads), and chains seem to last forever. In 10 years, I've never had to adjust the front derailleur, though I have had to adjust the rear one a couple of times.
I run a 3x12 setup on my flat bar commuter with a combination of Tiagra triple front end gruppo with an XT/XTR/Ultegra 12sp mismatch to shift all the gears. I love my triple, but do wish someone could make a lighter Tiagra triple big ring and a smaller 74bcd assymetrical granny ring.....
Short cage(13-23 ) 8s XTR rapid rise on my Lemond 853 Zurich. Ultegra STI levers. The shifting so much better. Down shift under a full load no problem. Click the release however many gears you want...let the derailleur do the rest . No hesitation into a higher gear ever. 😊 Yes it has a 30-42-53 triple up front. Oddly enough the 42 feels better than a 39. I use a 9 speed Ultegra chain. Prefer the rivets....nice coatings too the extra cost is made up through many extra miles. Shifts oh so fine.
2x7 here too. I like the idea of wide narow toothing on 1x chainwheels. They should make a gaered version of that with some ramps every 5th tooth or something. I bet theyd last longer.
Totally agree. Triples are great. I have 1x12 on my emtb and that's fine because of the power from the motor, although actually it's undergeared. I have 3x9 on my acoustic mtb and 2x11 on my roadbike.
You might want to show the difference between a standard front derailleur and a compact. Also you could have noted that internal BB's generally have lower resistance than the huge modern racing BB's.
I want to build a three-by with 60 teeth for the big chainring and an 11-46 cassette. Any ideas on how to achieve this? I plan to get or 3d print big jockey wheels and cut a bigger cage for the rear derailleur. probably custom cage for the front derailleur If I don't find something that fits
I doubt manufacturers stopping triple production had anything to do with cost. Cranksets, double or triple, are the same cost. Maybe single speed cranks are a little cheaper. No difference in cost of double or triple front derailleurs. Fads, desires, wants, marketing changed.
3x9 is still the perfect drive train in my opinion. Simple, reliable, and cheap.
i am running an Alivio 22-32-44 and will never give up that low gear!
Whole heartedly agree! I’m rolling 24-34-42 with an 11-36 cassette. Plenty of highs and lows for anything I encounter and the ten tooth jumps on the crank makes for a good “bailout” when you need it. Also the components are affordable, strong and widely interchangeable!
I've kept my triples too. The return to triples is a grassroots movement that flies in the face of what the manufacturers want us to buy. On the other hand there are plenty of good front derailleurs for sale from the people that drank the 1x Kool Aid.
Oh boy. The 20 year old 3x9 Deore Lx with 22/32/44 I had up to last year had the best drivetrain of any bike I owned. I feel like gravel bikes and touring bikes should come with 3x9. The new shimano cue 2x11 has similar range so I am waiting to see that. Maybe it can help fill the void in my life that selling the 3x9 made.
I like those older triples with the 64mm BCD, you can even fit a 20T small cog on there:
th-cam.com/video/tPbru0dAdmU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Wk3BY6A6fKzqGlH3
I run 3x10, now with a 900% gear range.
Or you can find an old Sugino Impel triple crankset with 42-32-20t chainring then pair it with a 7 speed cheap shimano cassette 12-32t. It's even lower. And cheaper lol.
I'm using this ratio on my Trek 520 now.
Got a bike with 1x11 and was a bit disappointed, so 4 months in converted it to a wide range double - absolutely love it now! With a bar end friction for the front mech and indexed at the rear I can go anywhere on that thing!
I need to find a way to put a front mech mount on my new lefty- that I didn’t actually want. I’d rather have the 3x10 on the bike that was taken out by a driver.
@@GADonMc I still have a 3x10 XT groupset on a 2008 Scott Aspect 20. I find it astonishing that bike industry simply refuses to sell this to me now. I go between roads/fire roads/trails. When I went from 3x9 to 3x10 I lost 4 teeth on the large ring and I complained about spinning out even then. I'd be gutted if I had to go 1x.
1 x's suck.
"3X ain't dead" is my mantra, I have a 3x9 and a 3x7, they're my 2 most ridden bikes!
I use 3x8 for my touring bike.
Front: 22/32/44 (XT crank, little Ring Shimano steel, middle ring Surley steel, big ring Aluminium Stronglight)
Rear: 11 to 32 (old XTR!)
XT 7 Speed Front derailleur and XTR 8 Speed Rear derailleur with dumbies
Thousands of kilometres, never a problem 😀
Sounds like a great set up
My last experience with gears was a 90s MTB(later turned commuter with 1" slicks) with 3X7. I think that was a good system, no extreme chainline issues or too thin chains.
I have this exact VO triple on my Soma Pescadero rando build. I love it! It's so beautiful and classically styled. Really great quality build, and it provides me with all the gearing I could possibly need. I have it set up 3x9 with microshift derailleurs and friction shifters and it's fantastic, my favorite drive train on any of my bikes. Simple, beautiful, functional, perfect.
Yes, I'm in the triple camp. 3X8 versatile and the most robust chain of the multispeeds. Skip the indexed left shifter and trim out any front shift. Also, it permits "dumping" the chain onto the bail- out gear. For me, the evolving of the complexity of bike transmissions stops here. The 90s sure was a good time!
I completely share your opinion.
Touring bikes had to make do with hand-me-downs from the mountain bike market. As soon as MTBs grew out of road bike tubing and got fat with weird frame geometry, road bike triples had a brief and schizophrenic existence. They were generally too highly geared (like 50-40-30, or 52-42-32), eliminating much of the range advantage of a triple chainset. Quality front MTB changers wouldn't fit and spacers restricted the throw, leaving the tourist to hunt down and experiment with old stock in the hope it would nudge the chain in the right places, while being in walking distance of the big ring. Even today, a dedicated touring groupset has yet to be made.
@@KarlosEPM Thanks, we are not alone. Thankfully there are a few like Velo Orange that serve us in the niche market. We know the mainstream bike industry doesn't . Cheers! Enjoy the ride!
I'd rather have a double than a triple. I went from a triple, then to a 1X, eventually found that double is the best for me. Sold all my old parts so i basically have no parts bin.
@@sepg5084 That's fair. A double seems to be a good compromise, and there's more parts available on the market. I myself prefer a tripple, but have nothing really against a double with optimized ratios for how I ride.
I love my Campy racing triple. Amazing how tolerant of derailleur adjustment a 9 speed is.
I love my triple racing too.
@@yankw5187 Mine is 3 x 8. 24/34/44 Euclid x 13 -28
Campag Euclid 24/34/44 triple withe 13 -30. 8 speed Campag triple 21 -91 gear inches and infallible rim brakes. Perfect for a fit pensioner
I have 28/38/48 hybrid crank on a road bike, works great in hills.
I would have cleaned up those older Deore parts. Make them match the beautiful new parts on the beautiful new bike. The new shifter you will take about in the next video is bad azz.
I did, lol. You should have seen them before I cleaned them up.
Our tandem has the old Ultegra 3X9 with 11-32 on the back. We got it used and we're not a powerful team, so I shrank the granny to 24, and after adding some shims on the granny, it reliably shifts from the 24 to the 42. It opened up more route options for us.
Changing the spacing is essential. Built alot of tandems. I would often put a Third Eye Chain Watcher on the seat tube ....an excellent insurance policy for $10. It was impossible for the chain to not land on the smallest chain ring with one installed.
@@stevengagnon4777 Yes, we have the Third Eye Chain Watcher on it. It was the upshift where we were having problems, and the spacers improved that.
All my bikes have triple chainrings. On the front, I have 46-40-26T and on the back an 11-36T 10 spd cassette. This produces a wide gear range from 118+ to 20+ gear inches. The large chainring is used with the 8 smallest cogs on mostly flat terrain, the middle chainring can be used with all the cassette cogs in rolling hill areas and the small chainring works with the 6 largest cogs for those leg-busting climbs. This combination produces about 24 usable gears that cover all cycling conditions.
I'm weary of reaching for the front derailleur shift lever. I'm going back to a double, but done smart: 45/28 front and 13-28 rear (7 speed). For loaded touring the front might be 42/24. Unless I'm climbing, most of the time the chain will stay in the big ring, and I don't need a long-cage rear derailleur. It's not perfect, but it's simple, and it's enough now that I no longer race.
Triples are great for certain bikes. My loaded touring bike started as 3x7 half step plus granny. Now it is 3x10. With changes in shifters, both derailleurs, cassette, rings, and chain. Same crank arms, bottom bracket, and same rear hub. It will climb any mountain with ease and has all the right middle gears for 99% of riding. Also have a triple on a road bike. 52-42-24 rings and 13-28 nine speed rear cassette. Perfect for any mountainous ride. I've taken it several times on week long mountain rides. Also works perfect for everyday riding with the good sized outer and middle rings. Triple cranks are right for many bikes.
I moved from the Cotswolds in England where a compact double (50/34) with 11-28 was fine for all but the toughest hills on the road to northern Lancashire, near the Lake District, where there’s plenty of easy, flattish gradients interspersed with some monster hills - especially in the Lakes. Factor in ageing, much more hill climbing and rougher, windier weather, and a 10, 9 or even 8 speed triple just feels more fun to ride. Small weight penalty, but it’s made up for by not having to grind up hills like I could when I was 30 😂
I reckon some people get put off using triples because they find the extra chainring fiddly to get used to.
I'm sold. Just converted my bike to 3x10 with a Velo Orange triple. I can make it up that steep hill to get to my house now, no matter how long of a ride I take.
What resurgence? I never knew they went away.
10:20 7 speed & 8 speed have different pull ratios(!?).
Yes they do . The mis match will require more precise adjustment.Possibley extra noise and hesitation will remain. Will go out of adjustment sooner. Suntour's 7/ 8 were the same for road bikes bikes ...Shimano's 8s cassette worked nicer.
I run 3 x 7 on two bikes, 3 x 8 on one bike, and 3 x 9 on one bike, all with downtube shifters. Some indexed, some friction. Equipment choice will be an issue going forward, unless someone keeps making the cassettes and front changers. I forgot 3 x 9 on a couple of mountain bikes!
1X drivetrains are another bike industry fad-and-fashion. They are useful for commuters and those in flatter lands but when you have a loaded touring or rando bike in hills and you're fatigued, there is nothing like a well-matched triple set. Give the industry another product cycle and watch them return. It would be interesting to hear Igor's comments on matching derailleur capacity with triple setups... on my touring tandem with a triple, I am pushing the limit of what my Deore LX SGS derailleur will accommodate.
You have the "useful" completely backwards. They are less useful on the flats, they are only helpful when jumping while using narrow wide chain rings to stop chain drops
1x was driven by rear suspension design. From the engineering perspective, as a drivetrain, is as bad as it gets. Heavier and cumbersome cassettes/derailleurs, more expensive to produce, bad chainlines, finicky setup.
But it went well anyways aided by strong marketing, programmed obsolescense of 2/3X by Sram/Shimano and crutches like electronic shifting.
Modern MTB is gravity dominated so gearing is of a second concern. Hell, you can even GWIN a DH world cup race without a chain nowadays.
@@puntoycoma47 1x for rear suspension does make it easier to design anti squat, but now you only have 1 ideal gear speed for a given squat instead of 2
@@janeblogs324 you're right on that, but I guess the main driver was packaging around the bottom bracket rather than pure kinematics.
I've got a triple chainset on my winter/touring bike. 50/42/32 with 13 - 26 ten speed.
The smaller jumps from ring to ring are nice, especially as you increase the ratio spread of the chain ring. On my old 3x7, one ring up front was equivalent to about 2 gears on the back. Compare that to my GRX setup where going from one ring to the other is 3-4 gears on the back depending on where you’re at on the cassette. I find myself always moving 1-2 gears on the cassette most times I change gears on the chain ring, the difference in ratios is just too big to plan around.
The Ultegra 3x10 was great. The front derailleur was reliable, and each front ring combined with the middle cogs of the back cassette produced a highly useable gear. It always felt smooth and efficient.
Still rocking 105-5700 3x10 with barends on my touring bike. Don't think I'll ever change those out.
My old school Trek 950, 930 all have triple 3x7. You can ride anywhere and still have top end. The original gravel /tour/ all-around bikes . Oh, and made in the USA .
I just got a 1993 GT mtb to make a chill dad bike out of. I just assumed I’d convert it to 1x from a triple because that’s just what you do now. After a few rides with the triple it came with I really think I’m going to stick with it. It lets me do whatever I need. I’m pretty shocked how well it operates now that it is perfectly indexed.
Back in the 9 speed days, I used to have a Campagnolo Chorus gruppo with a “Racing T” triple. I’ve always been a natural climber (135lbs, 5’8”, no sprint to speak of, but able to maintain 80RPM for hours) and I wanted more gears so I could keep my cadence up my favorite climbs, so I had it built up that way - 27 speeds with a 30 tooth small front chainring and a 29 largest cog in the back. I think this was right at the start of the high cadence movement in pro cycling but I wasn’t that into racing… I just knew I liked the high cadence and I was MUCH faster uphill in those gears.
EDIT: I also had a Cannondale ST800 touring bike with a Suntour 3x6 and a 28 front / 32 back smallest gear. What a joy that was. Not nearly as fast as the Racing T setup on my road bike, but I remember training with bricks in my panniers (what an idiot.)
l live in a hilly region and just as most other riders around here do I mostly use the middle chainring. To make the chainring last considerably longer I get the ones made of steel and not having any pins or ramps. But that setup works best with non-index shifters.
I found it interesting, entertaining, and educational. One of the issues I have discovered with a triple, is that they don’t work nearly as nicely when one is using a frame with a short wheelbase, ie, a racing type frame. . .
I have a 50-39-30 triple on my road bike. I hated the 16T jump on the 50-34 compact crank my Synapse came with. The 34T chainring was either was too small or large. The 10 and 11T jumps between front chainrings just seem to work. The 39T chainring is ideal for those long, 1-2% grades, where I can use the middle 4-5 gears on the cassette.
Bought the Specialized AWOL in 2014 that came standard with triple gear crank, Shimano flight deck shifters and derailleurs. Use the bike as a commuter mainly, with light loads. The area around where I live has a few steep hills, so the triple comes in handy when carrying that extra load.
single seems all about aesthetics, not weight. As Grant Petersen says, "you are the heaviest thing on your bike".
I heard it was for "simplicity". Because shifting is so very complicated. 🙄
Well, simplicity _is_ an argument in favour of 1× for MTB: fewer moving parts to clank around, get covered in mud and obstructing the suspension. I still prefer the versatility of 2× though, particularly for hardtails that are used both on- and offroad.
In my eyes these modern, huge cassettes for 1x drive trains are extremely ugly. A huge step back in aesthetics.
Aesthetics? The 1x is so ugly with that monstrous cassette, thin chain, add to that the disc brake makes for the ugliest bike ever. My eyes can't even look at that enormous rear mess.
I loved my triple on my tandem 55/39/28 with 11-32 tons of range top speed and 20% ramps in California 200 milers and 500 milers
I always run a triple crank on my mountain bikes. I firmly believe that more gear ratios are much better than fewer. I really don't understand this weird fascination with 1x drive trains. If I lived in a much more hilly or mountainous area, I would have a triple on my road bikes too. Thank you.
I’ve been mountain biking since 1996 and you can’t change gears fast enough on a 2x or 3x to be effective and efficient on trails. Plus you need room for the dropper remote on the left. And the dropper is way more important than more chainrings. No way would I, anyone I’ve known since 2016 ride anything other than 1x on actual MTB trails. Thats just silly. It’s as silly to mtbrs as to roadies on a 1x.
at 12:15 Cutting the chain is both on the big chainring and big toothring, chain tight + 0.5 link
For cost, reliability, and specifically simplicity, I'm running a 48/38/28 with a 14-28 7 speed cassette. But why does this triple work better for me, instead of smaller chainrings?
It's because (and here comes the simplicity bit) I use the middle 38 ring as a 1x, and only use the inner and outer rings to give me one lower gear, or one higher gear. A lot of folks struggle to run up and down the gears using a triple, but using them in the way I have described makes things very easy indeed, effectively giving me 9 gears to choose from, without ever having to look down and see what gear I'm in. I get the simplicity of a 1x (by just using my middle 38 ring), with the added bonus of a wider range,
More by luck than judgement, I jumped off the "gears arms race" 40 years ago, when it got to 7 speed indexed, and I'm glad I did, because everything works really reliably, is very cheap, and lasts a very long time. I use Deore front and rear derailleurs, plus matching indexed thumb shifters, but I carry a simple friction down tube lever in my spares kit, just in case I have to jerry-rig an alternative gear change if I'm on tour. By sticking to this gear set-up, I've not really needed to buy anything, other than a chain and cassette every 10,000 miles or so, for a total price of around £20. In other words, a tiny fraction of the cost of modern 1x systems.
For all riding apart from racing, this is all most people need.
I’d love to have triples as the norm again. I feel like I can never get in the right cadence in my 2x11. Never had that problem in my 105 triple or my Ultegra 2x10. Even with a 34-32 climbing gear I feel like I’m riding up a wall. Currently considering going to either a 48-32 or 46-30. Maybe I’m just getting old?
Getting old almost always beats the alternative.
It doesn't matter what the norm is or what everyone else has, just what you want and need. I will never understand trendiness. Seems so asinine and weak.
Hey back in the early 1980’s before I’d heard of mountain bikes, I had a triple TA chainring setup on my Dawes Galaxy road touring bike, with Specialized heavy duty tyres for off tarmac adventures
My favorite drivetrain of all time was a Shimano 5700 series 10-speed 3x on a rehab'd 1980 Lotus Legend (originally sold with Shimano 600 3x). It shifted beautifully w/ its brifters each and every time, even abused under load. Yes, the front derailleur brifter throw to the outer chainring might have been longer than a double, but it was so easy to throw it didn't matter, it was just a data point. There were a few gearing overlaps, but I just viewed it as having options depending on which chainring was in use and the terrain - I guess I had internalized the gear chart. ;) That bike has a happy new owner now. While I enjoy my more "modern" 2x drivetrains, I will always miss that 3x, not to mention the vintage rando machine.
In my mind, triples go with freewheels. With an 8sp cassette and up, doubles begin to shine. I have a 40/26 on my heavy touring bike and it rocks. Call me crazy but I coast downhill and 40/11 is plenty for my needs. 9sp, downtube shifters, 11-34 in back. Triples exist post-half-step not for the granny gear but the top end. You can replace the big ring with a bash guard.
I prefer a triple to do something like 52/39/26 with a 14-28 9 speed cassette rather than the big jumps between gears on a wide range double. The middle chainring on that setup has gear inches from 42-70, which is pretty perfect for cruising. A high of 100 gear inches and a low of 25, plenty for anything, and simple to shift.
@@Primifluous Now that’s a proper triple! That spread makes sense.
@@Primifluous That's a neat approach. I hadn't thought of a road cassette with a large small cog.
The new "grandpa's gearset" is a 1by with a small chainring (34t below) and 11-50t cassette.
I have triples on a few of my bikes. So versatile. The narrower gear skips also make for more efficient cycling.
I have 3X8 Claris set on my winter bike/wheel-on training bike. I have a 3X9 Deore LX rear / Sora FRD3030X front (for tire clearance) set on my hybrid-to-drop bar conversion. I still have the 3X9 Deore flat bar shifters, in perfect order, in case I ever want to go back. I won't. Triples certainly have their place, especially on a day when I'm not feeling energetic. Square taper for the win!
3×7 friction bar ends
Work for me
🤠👍
As someone who runs single speeds (and has used 1x and 2x) I always reverted back to the trusty 3x (specifically 3x6) because I love the wide range and the truck/tractor like behavior from that heavy little 18 speed mountain bike since I use it a lot like such. I tow and commute and off road (for fun and home use) and the 3x is such an amazing drivetrain for all around and rugged use while I have my trusty single speed track bike for my sporty road racing and indoor training😎
I'm with all the 3x fans here, its disappearance in the general marketplace baffles me, not that a front derailleur is not needed on certain bikes--some mountain or crit or gravel, et al. And if anyone has never ridden a 3x, just do what I do, convert a 26" mountain bike into a commuter with panniers and lights and such. Then ride over hill and dale to the supermarket, load up the panniers with your groceries, and O my, on the ride home you'll be dropping into the granny gear up those hills. And you'll be happy you left the campus bike at home. But seriously, a 3x can protect your knees from the damage of pushing too large a gear because, O yes indeed, it promotes gear changes like all the time and that's a big part of the fun, keeping your revs in your sweet spot, wherever that is for any given rise or climb or whatever. And thanks for this vid, Velo Orange, the cycling world needs more 3x promotional videos for those of us who ride off-campus a lot. 😀
Friction shifting negates compatibility issues. I’m very happy with 42/33/22 on 150 mm TA Zephyr driving 11-42 10s cassette; lots of range and not too gappy.
Small cranks are where it's at! I ride nothing greater than 160mm
Honestly these “one-by” systems have crazy chain angles and it’s super hard to adjust the derailleurs just right. I kind of regret buying 2 1x11 systems.
My 3x10 lefty was taken out by a young woman who ran a light and ran over me. All lefties now only come as a 1x, and I really don’t like it.
I'll give up my triple when they pry my cold dead feet from around them! Awesome choice of derailleurs BTW. Deore DX is my all time favorite...best looking by far and totally bomb-proof! In the early days of ebay I would scoop up NOS and barely used units and never paid more than 10 bucks for 'em. Still have enough leftover for like 5 builds and I just put them on my new Riv Atlantis last year. I've always said that when the nuclear apocalypse comes, the only thing left will be cockroaches, and Deore DX derailleurs! Peace!
No. My Deore literally fell apart. Suntour WAS bombproof.
Can’t wait for these Growtac shifters to be released.
This was my take away from the vid too... Growtac is making friction brifters??? Had to google it and was not let down.
Edit: not that I don't love triples... I have them on my commuter/grocery getter, vintage ATB and randonneuse.
I had a triple and close ratio freehub small steps I could always keep my cadence where I wanted
Been on a 40/30/22 for three years now. Holy moly, when you need low gears, you got them!!! and I have absolutely no need for more than 40*11 big gear.
I can't sustain much faster than about 18 mph on the flats and I like the granny gear for steep climbs.. I think a 1x with a wider range on the cassette works pretty well. MT bikes today works for me.
So many shifter types just don't trim triples well. Old Ergo's 11 clicks of goodness was the best "not" triple front shifter ever made. When you live near highback waterfront triples just work.
For me the best triple is a half step with a granny gear. With a 52/47/28 and a only a 5 cog 14, 17, 21, 26, 32 freewheel I get a range of 23 to 100 gear inch with less than with 11% or smaller jumps down to 38 gear inch and then 3 more bail out gears. The shift pattern is simple and logical. There are no redundant ratios. Shifting from 47 to 28 and back for the bail out gears is no problem whatsoever when using a “dog fang” chain catcher. With 7 or 8 speed cogs the range can get even wider with smaller jumps
HS+G is definitely the best triple set-up for touring/road-oriented applications. I feel like it could be good on trails too with different chainsets, but i haven't tried yet... I bet 44/39/22 would be rad with an 11-32 out back on a 26". But I've got some 80s-era Japanese touring bikes with the HS+G set up, and they're so nice for long leisurely road rides. The redundancies of the more common 50/39/30 and 48/36/26 triples kind of annoy me, even if mush of that is about my own OCD....
And how about a free hub designed for a 5 or 6 cog cassette for a no-dish 130 or 135 mm OLD rear wheel? V-O could be the HSG source. For marketing-nothing is more fun than dancing the half step with granny.
@@brentmassmann1463 that's a good idea but if VO doesn't deliver, Hope Tech sells that hub you want...
I had half step plus granny on my first loaded touring bike. Trek 520 from 1991. 50-45-24. Trek didn't get the half step very correct. But it worked. Matched with a 7 speed cassette. Bar end shifters. I was very happy with it on several loaded tours. But I eventually upgraded to STI and 10 speed cassette. And different chainrings too. Shifting is much easier to do linear with STI. And with 10 speed cassette, you have enough cogs to get the same small, constant percentage change in gears. So unless you have a fetish for staying with 5 or 6 or 7 speed freewheels or cassettes, there is no reason for half step plus granny today. Unless you are scavenging old parts out of boxes to build a bike. But not if you are buying new parts.
@@russellseaton2014yes of course a 1x10 STI works as a wide range touring set up and is simple to operate. I’m all for anything that makes cycling more enjoyable for others. I personally prefer the little bit of additional interaction with my bike that the HS&G requires. I also resist following the crowd to the latest thing. My bikes are unique expressions of me. I like re-using existing bikes (and other material goods) instead of producing more for some small incremental advantage or to be with the in-crowd or as a status symbol The slight downsides of 1x10 STI are cost, mechanical robustness, and that cogs smaller than 13 teeth cause lower drive train efficiencies. When there are old “obsolete” 1x10 systems wasting away unused maybe I will build one up.
I agree. My cyclocross super commuter is a triple and I personally prefer it over a double.
Andy Wilkinson is arguably Britain's greatest ever cyclist, and almost certainly Britain's greatest ever amateur cyclist. He has held every long distance record imaginable, breaking the killer 24 hour record at near 50 years of age. He rides with a triple chain-ring. If it's good enough for him.........
The Sora front mech has a problem. That massive cage geometry gets caught on the triples I've tried it on. Chainring spacing obviously has something to do with it, but so does the range of chainrings used. I was very disappointed verging on rage after buying one. What I'm using now and have used for a decade now is a Dura-Ace early (thirty-ish year old) double that has the travel to handle a triple set-up.
Thanx for that trick on seating the removable link. I’ve struggled with those buggers before!?
Triples are just an overcomplicated double. If you prefer using them that's fine, but it's really just 1 chain ring too many.
I would say that there's probably more utility in triples for trek/mountain bikes than there is for road bikes.
You know what the funny thing is? My hybrid came with a 3x, and I told myself I’d “upgrade” if I could find something that it couldn’t do. On fast roads I get to use the big ring, and on dirt paths/hills, I bail out on my small ring. The rest of time I’m cruising comfortably in my middle ring. When I couldn’t go fast enough on the big ring, I just got a road bike instead. That 3x chainring was probably the biggest mitigator every time the N+1 feeling reared its head and tried to convince me to buy a new “upgrade”/bike.
It’s definitely something to be so lazy about “upgrading” from your 3x that you get people coming back to it and singing its praises over the 1x/2x 😂
I still have that drivetrain on my ‘91 Stumpjumper.
Just cobbled together a mix of NOS ultegra and 105 for a 3x10 group on my old Audax. Nice 3x10 brifters are definitely getting a bit thin on the ground.
Saludos. ¿Dónde puedo comprar este triple plato (triple cranksets)?
My old mountain bike came with 3 rings and it’s is 27 years old and I’m 64 . Freedom is riding! I wish you would have explained how to size up the chain.
Great video and thanks. It's fascinating to see bikes being build using vintage components. Maybe building NEW bikes the way they used to be built will become more than a fad? I've been running triples since the 80's and don't ever plan to stop. I just dig 'em. However, I'm a little scared by the scarcity of new compatable components and worried by the demand for the those lovely Shimano Deore long-cage rear derailleurs.
You've probably started something now with the 1X snobs! Fact is 3X's are awesome! Great range, allowing for small steps between cogs, and all for very little weight (if weight really bothers you).
I just built a semi custom flat bar touring bike last year. 3X10, with 24-32-44 up front, an 11-36 on the back, with Deore indexed thumb shifters. 600% range and some really low end gears for times when you need it. I have 14 actual unique gears with at least an 11% step between and without overlap - almost perfect. One tiny wish might be to replace the indexed front shifter with friction, as long as it can be mounted on the bar. I'm looking for ideas there. Not a fan of bar end shifters. But I do like friction shifting for the chainrings where I can always get the derailleur in perfect placement.
124mm BB spindle? I have a Sugino XD triple setup with 113mm BB on a 68mm bottom bracket road frame. Love my Sugino triple setup 48-38-24, IRD Alpina front derailleur, and Rivendell friction ratchet shifters....Just heaven my friends!!
How does he come up with the 124mm recommendation? I've got a 120mm (Shimano 3N) traditional cup-and-cone loose bearings spindle on a standard 68mm bottom bracket mtb frame. I'll try to stick with this setup, and if it doesn't work, I'll go with the cartridge square tapered bottom bracket. I'm not sure how getting a different length spindle will affect my chain line.
i run a 3x10 shimano xt set and i love it so many people tell me to go with a single chainring but i just don’t understand the appeal about it other than saving a few grams of weight lmao
I started out riding over 50 years ago with a triple and still ride with a Campy Racing T and 10 speed set up. Here in New England old guys need old tech.
I'm still using 9 speed triple I am using 48-36-28 and 12-34 cassette works lovely on my Cannondale hybrid
I started mountain biking and wrenching in the 80’s with thumb shifters and 3x7. I miss the versatility of a triple on the mountain bike, big ring to ride to the trailhead, middle for up and down singletrack and the granny for steep climbs 😢 But…….. I dont miss chain suck in muddy conditions, chain drop at inopportune moments on technical terrain. I may have to put a triple on my hardtail to see if the tradeoffs are worth it. Good for touring though.
Triples makes it safe. Triples is best.
Grease on BB spindle tapers?? No, no, no!! This is a guaranteed way to stretch the square tapered hole in the cranks as they slowly work their way up the spindle, during which time always needing to be retightened. Maybe folk are confused with cottered steel cranks (remember them?) that definitely needed grease. There are a few areas on a bicycle where friction is needed (e.g. friction shifters, brake lever clamps, seatpost upper clamps, etc.), and crank tapers are one of them. Their tapered surfaces should be deburred (if damaged from being ridden loose), cleaned and thoroughly degreased, along with the spindle's tapers: grease or heavy oil is used on only the threads of the crank bolts, but never under the bolt heads or washers. Doing this will guarantee cranks that never loosen, let alone need periodic bolt retightening, and they will not creak or squeak either. In my fifteen years as a bike shop service manager I saw plenty of cranks that had been stretched so that a longer spindle was needed to maintain the correct chainline, and whenever a customer came in saying "I was JRA when my pedal thing fell off" we would always find grease on the tapers, especially if nutted spindles were used. Galvanic corrosion isn't a problem with the crank/BB interface, so grease isn't needed there for that reason either; if a crank doesn't want to come off, a minute or two with a hot air gun will always pursuade it to loosen.
Also, painting grease onto the top of threads is useless because most of it will get pushed off when the parts are threaded together. Grease should be pushed down into the thread's root where it's needed, and fingers are still best for this task. Fingers also tell you if a thread is rough and may first need to be chased.
What about teflon tape on threads?
I've been greasing tapers for years without issue.
@@daniellarson3068 PTFE tape is intended for tapered threads, and usually is pushed out of the threads when used on straight threads. It is a thread sealant, not a thread lubricant.
@@velo_orange Time will tell...
@@velo_orange Thanks - I'll use it and maybe that slippery teflon tape on the threads.
I had a quad at one point. Back when there were gear ads in Outside, I ordered the quad gear. It was a tiny chain ring, and it fit into already existing holes, I guess for the granny gear. I was cheap, weighed very little, and not particularly useful, overall worthwhile. The main problem was that it was useful for certain things, but getting into it was difficult. If you shifted early, your feet would be spinning so fast, while at the same time contributing so little that you would fall over, or if you waited to late to shift, you might come to a stop, and fall over. But once you figured it out, it was easy to manage.
It looks ease when you are doing it. Cheers,
I have two bike with triples. One is an 86 Rockhopper with Shimano Deerhead groupset the other a 2004 Cannondale Gargoyle XT. That small cog is a bailout. Never had an issue and the old groupset still works (some parts replaced) Why the hate?
My 1994 Diamondback has Shimano LX 3x7 with front derailleur indexing! It’s wild how well it works, nearly flawless.
I recently bought a new mountain bike with Deore 1x12 and surprised by how much I’ve grown to like it. It too is flawless, not sure how long it will last though. Time will tell.
Enjoyed this trip down memory lane with the old Shimano groupsets. I had mtb in the late 80's (LX and DX) through a Klein Palomino I bought in 2002 which featured XTR. The Klein still works well, and I still ride it occasionally.
I can't believe I didn't buy a stack of them when you could get Campag Record 50/40/30 for £50 in the UK. Having that "get out of jail" card with such an easy gear as backup changed everything.
Just imagine how much you could have flogged those for now…. 😢
I think the triple, double or single chainring discussion, also has to take into account the terrain the rider rides on.
Saying that, even on a touring bike I would be happy with a double. A wide range double gives you a bailout gear and a general use gear. Something like a 30/46 should cover most terrain if you add an 11/36 cassette.
Saved a hole bunch of cranks , rings , from my old 70 -ty touring bikes with Stonlight 99 and SR Apex and use it on my Bob Jackson -85 . Great stuff.
Half step produces a tighter range of small increments in gear inches between 65&100" than any other combo. That's where you really need a tight spread. Throw in a granny ring and you've got perfection for all road situations loaded or not.
If you're going to set your quicklink like that, it needs to be on the top half. Any tension on the bottom is from the rear derailleur only.
I have a z Lemond triple. I’d say the main thing it has that a compact double doesn’t is more mid-range gears. It has it uses. I think really the biggest detriment to it is that it’s a bigger hassle to take apart and clean. Tuning the FD can really be challenging also. (Using a 2012 11s Athena shifter and FD w 9 s 6500 Ultegra crank and RD which works great.)
It took me all these years. I have heard of other extolling the virtues of half step. I could run the gear calculations and see that it made perfect sense, but all the bikes that I ever get have doubles with a 10 to 12 difference on the chainrings. I finally found an eBay triple crank with half-step plus granny and I am now a convert. It is a simple gear pattern and I don't have to find a gear. Nice nod to triples. It is not wasted on me that you have some nice triple cranks at VO.
I have a 3x (24-36-46) with a 10-speed 11-28 cassette. I was thinking of changing the 46 for a 48, but I don't need to go that fast on two wheels. Never going for 1x for my riding as I like to dial in the correct ratio and I don't like the large jumps (I love stepping through my 11-12-13-14-15 range on my cassette).
I've ridden thousands of miles on my VO Triple since 2014. It's super easy to find the perfect gear for every situation (including heavy loads), and chains seem to last forever. In 10 years, I've never had to adjust the front derailleur, though I have had to adjust the rear one a couple of times.
I run a 3x12 setup on my flat bar commuter with a combination of Tiagra triple front end gruppo with an XT/XTR/Ultegra 12sp mismatch to shift all the gears. I love my triple, but do wish someone could make a lighter Tiagra triple big ring and a smaller 74bcd assymetrical granny ring.....
I built a touring bike using a half step triple off an 80s Miata (Custom brand), 3x7 with bar ends. What is the idea behind the half step triple?
for loaded touring: 8sp 11-36, 24-34-46, down tube shifters, rapid rise rear mech 👍
Short cage(13-23 ) 8s XTR rapid rise on my Lemond 853 Zurich. Ultegra STI levers. The shifting so much better. Down shift under a full load no problem. Click the release however many gears you want...let the derailleur do the rest . No hesitation into a higher gear ever. 😊 Yes it has a 30-42-53 triple up front. Oddly enough the 42 feels better than a 39. I use a 9 speed Ultegra chain. Prefer the rivets....nice coatings too the extra cost is made up through many extra miles. Shifts oh so fine.
2x7 here too. I like the idea of wide narow toothing on 1x chainwheels. They should make a gaered version of that with some ramps every 5th tooth or something. I bet theyd last longer.
God bless you for spreading the Gospel Of Triple
🙏
@@velo_orange 😂
Totally agree. Triples are great. I have 1x12 on my emtb and that's fine because of the power from the motor, although actually it's undergeared. I have 3x9 on my acoustic mtb and 2x11 on my roadbike.
5:55 now I know what was in that suitcase in Pulp Fiction
Hahaha!
You might want to show the difference between a standard front derailleur and a compact. Also you could have noted that internal BB's generally have lower resistance than the huge modern racing BB's.
I want to build a three-by with 60 teeth for the big chainring and an 11-46 cassette. Any ideas on how to achieve this? I plan to get or 3d print big jockey wheels and cut a bigger cage for the rear derailleur. probably custom cage for the front derailleur If I don't find something that fits
no idea. thatll be a wild build.
A modern 2x system essentially eliminates the center chainring from a 3x system and makes the gap up with a wider range cassette.
Solidly a triple fan. Love my Grand Cru 110 triple on my Surly Disc Trucker. An unbreakable beast!
I have the VO Triple on my Soma Grand Randonneur. Beautiful crankset.
Why did they stop triples? Could it be to save bike manufacturer's money and then present it to the consumer as an advantage?
I doubt manufacturers stopping triple production had anything to do with cost. Cranksets, double or triple, are the same cost. Maybe single speed cranks are a little cheaper. No difference in cost of double or triple front derailleurs. Fads, desires, wants, marketing changed.