Seriously mindblowing. I didn't even believe it when I chose it for my Adventure Bike build. Like, seriously, too good to be true. I had a mini anxiety attack the night before filming my build video thinking I'd get it on the bike and learn I was an idiot to think it would work. Well...it works, and it works GREAT! And they say it's 3x more durable? I mean...why even bother with the other stuff. I'm officially a fan of 11 speed CUES.
I've gotten lazy with maintenance which is why I love my Pinion and belt drive, but this is impressive stuff from Shimano. If I go back to traditional drive train, this is probably the way to go. Would love to see more about it!
This is seriously the only direction the industry can go to stay viable, making it affordable and versitile. There is such a huge amount of folks like myself that could never afford these ridiculously high prices like those derailleurs and these other bikes/components on the market. Outpricing people is insane and not sustainable. Hopefully Cues sets a new industry trend so more people have access to good quality cycling!
Agreed, unfortunately the industry doesnt seem to be slowing down the price point increases, though theres plenty of people like us not willing or able to meet those price points, theres still loads of people out there spending tons of money on all the newest tech as it comes out. Thats why Ive been buying mostly secondhand stuff to build/maintain my bikes 🤣
I can afford it and still don’t find AXS worth the money, I’ll take this over the super light, high end, fast wearing stuff all day. Rider makes more difference than a few hundred grams.
I work in a bike shop, and the insights and knowledge you give into Cues, I'm sure will cover this donation. I'm super curious to see how drop bar cues pans out!
The nice thing about the 2x Cues 6020 build is that it is at the theoretical maximum range for its capacity and the small front chainring size. If you fix the capacity, C and front small chainring FS (and rear small RS=11 ), then after some differentiation, you can find the optimal front difference (or equivalently large front chainring size) that maximizes the range. The large rear sprocket is set by the remaining capacity. The formula is FD=(RS+C-FS)/2. At this optimal value the largest front and rear sprockets are the same size FB=RB=FS+FD (though the theoretical value may be a fraction). This analysis tells us how to distribute the capacity between front and back for a given FS size such that the range is maximized. For the 6020-11 (C=48) here are the results FS=22: Front: 22/41, Rear: 11/40, Range: 678% (FB of 40-42 and correspondingly RB of 41-39 give almost identical range) FS=26: Front 26/42, Rear: 11/43, Range: 631% (neighbouring values give almost identical range) FS=30: Front: 30/45, Rear: 11/44 Range: 600% (neighbouring values give almost identical range) FS=32: Front: 32/46, Rear: 11/45 Range: 588% (neighbouring values give almost identical range) The 6020 has a 14 tooth max FD so the FS=30 option might notwork but could be adjusted to 30/44 11/45, which has the same 600% range. The FS=22 optimal config has a front difference of 19, well beyond the limit, while the FS=26 config has a front difference of 16 which might work or could be dropped to 14 for a very similar range. So what cranks are available for the 6020-11? We have 22/36 and 32/46 in the 6000 series and a 26/40 in the 4000 series. There is a 30/46 but that is for 10 speed (the 6020-10 has a lower capacity and higher max front difference). From the numbers above, we can see that the 32/46 provides the optimal range for a 32 small chainring.The 26/40 is also very close to optimal. Only the 22/36 is a bit off, providing 669% instead of the optimum of 678% achievable with a wider crank and narrower cassete. But overall very close. This is all achievable because of the 45 max rear sprocket size of the 6020, something we didn't have before. For comparison, my M610 deraileur has a capacity of 43 (max front difference of 22) and my crank is 26/36/48. For a 26 small front chainring and 43 capacity, the best range would be achieved with a front difference of 14 i.e. 26/40 on the front and 11-40 on the back. This would give a range of 559% with this deraileaur compared to the 537% I have now. A small difference perhaps, but the fact that Cues brings us close to the optimal configuration appeals to my mathematical sensibilities.
I've been using 2x Cues system now for 2000-2500 km with friction shifting and of course Uno for the rear derailleur. Originally I had 10 speed cassette at the back, but the gears never felt like they were on. I think it was somehow my fault, but still I put on an 8 speed cassette and since it's worked flawless. At least for friction I like it that Cues derailleur is perhaps a bit rough when it changes, because it's easier for me to know when it's making the changes. Yesterday I rode 52 km including 20 km gravel and the rest pavement in about 1h 50min. My Singular Peregrine sure ain't the lightest of the bikse and I had my Carradice Nelson and a frame bag full of stuff and that's all the speed I will ever need. From my experience Cues works flawlessly. All this remainds me that I learned everything about Cues and friction shifting from this channel, so it's time to go to Patreon. Thank you, Russ, for all of your work!
SHIMANO ACERA Rear Derailleur 8-speed RD-M3020-8 long *25, Shimano HG51 8-Speed Cassette (11-32) *20, Front Derailleur Altus FD-M310 3x7/8 * 20, Shimano M361 Hybrid Crankset *35 (42-22 bolt on chain rings), 9 speed chain for more wiggle room on friction shifters *20. this is what im rocking, loving it, dont break the bank either. the cage still has some room to tweak a higher high or lower low if needed. 4.82-.69
I've been running 1x9 CUES for a while now (U4000 rear, U6000 front), and I can confirm that is quite nice, even great, I could say. The shifting is lighyears away compared to other cheap-o 1x9's. And the 11-46T cassette is more than enough for me (32T front)
My 3x9 system has 910% bandwith with rear 11-50 and front 48-32-24 😅 A mixed system of mtb components in the rear and road in the front. Like rd-m7000 as the rear derailleur.
I was going to comment this. My 3x 9-speed with an 11-50 has crazy range and everyone in the bike industry acts like it doesn't exist. It baffles me. It surely isn't the best option for a lot of applications and people, but as an overweight person who also loads their bike and lives in a hilly area, I need the low gears. As someone who loves mashing down hills, I need high gears. There are no-no gears, but I don't mind having to avoid cross-chaining. So yeah, not for everyone, but perfect for me.
@@firehazard1792 i have both. Some hills and flat streets. I make that bike to my needs and i must push 120 kg ( with steel bike) the hills up. I dont say anything about the Industrie and my bike? I dont thing that my mix mullet setup would someone buy. I use parts outside any specs from shimano. Its bad that everywhere the 1x drivetrain is hyped and said its the best. For me is crap. 1x is only specific on hill or road but not both.
I run a 3 x 10 with a very similar configuration on my older mtb and it works fine. It feels as though the industry decided 25 years ago how low a bottom gear should be and has stuck within that framework ever since. Again I’m probably atypical but I live in a hilly area, am an older parent at 50 and regularly take my young kids out on the trailer or shotgun seat. There is no such thing as too low a gear.
Interesting!🤔What cassette? Would that setup work with economy brifters, like Microshift R9? Personally, for my monstercross daypack build, I would probably go with something like 40-30-22 on an 11-42 for a shorter chain that slaps less when jumped.. and, in personal experience, anything over 100 gear inches off road is "being ambitious" at best, while the tween gear-inch ratios on the low end help spin uphill on a single track without getting out of the saddle.. But, that's very IMHO/YMMV. It's a shame the industry decided to brush the 3x drivetrains under the rug -- they're not that much heavier or complex than a 2x!
@@-Gothicgirl- Oh sorry, I know you weren't talking about the bike industry. I probably should have made my own comment instead of hitching on to yours. My mullet road bike is very similar to yours and I think it would serve the needs of other people too.
@@PathLessPedaledTV in Cues 11 - speed there is also cassette variant with with 11-50T which with front 22/36T would give 744% and it should work, but I don't think it would make any sense to have so low gear, maybe someone would want to have that cassette with 26/40T which would give 699% or with 30/46T which would give 697%.
@@czaja995 I think the problem with these wide ranges around 700% will be the maximum capacity of the rear derailleur. Even if you can still use them reliably well outside the official specification, at some point the end will come. The problem is the combination of large-large and small-small sprockets. Even if you are not supposed to ride this combination, it still has to be safe enough that nothing happens. It can happen quite quickly in practice. With large-large, the chain must be long enough to prevent the rear derailleur from breaking. With small-small, the chain must not sag so much that it slips or falls off the chainrings.
Hi Russ Shimano have made a number of extremely wide range drive trains over the last few years but the media does not seem interested and only because of my own interest and backpacking bikes up of fitted them to a number of my bikes. First there was Shimano XT 3x11, then the Shimano XT 2x12 and lower end models of these twodrive trains. I learned about the Shimano Cues in early 2021 because of my love of extreme gear range drive trains and the local Shimano rep who knew I would be one of the few that would like the new product range. There is a number of road bike shifters coming to suit this group set . And it’s a way of shops not having to carry so much product to be able to fix more customers bikes. Unfortunately, because of a severe Brain Injury from an accident (would’ve been dead if I had not been wearing a helmet) and having to stop working and riding I forgot all about it. There was a timeframe some of the information I got to see with different parts of the group System being released .
@overland_adventure_nz Hey kiwi farmer, you have done some very interesting trips in some very interesting places. And thanks for the playlist compilations; sorting the wheat from the chaff so to speak. I'll be working through them and will keep checking in for new ones. Wishing you well post concussion.
Great discussion and I agree cues is a good affordable option and I used the 6000 series cues 2x11 to convert my old Giant CRX1 hybrid bike without changing the 50/34 chainrings. Shifting is smooth and reliable unlike my 1x12 bike. Here is a summary: GIANT CRX 1, 50/34T, 11-28T 10 SPEED Conversion to Cues 6000 - (2X11) CASSETTE: SHIMANO LINKGLIDE Cassette 11-speed 11-45T [Model No: CS-LG400-11], DERAILLEUR: REAR SHIMANO CUES SHADOW RD 11-SPEED [Model No: RD-U6020-11], SHIFTER: SHIMANO CUES RAPIDFIRE PLUS SHIFTER CLAMP BAND 11-SPEED [Model No: SL-U6000-11R] Chain - 10/11-speed LINKGLIDE Chain [Model No: CN-LG500]
My wife's rim brake road bike from 2015 has a Deore 36/22 crankset with a 11-42 cassette on the back and it works with a short cage rear derailleur and a road link.
Did she watch a lot of durianrider videos? He made that hack popular back then for people trying Everesting and epic climbing rides. I'm not sure it works as well with modern short cage stuff but the old parts are out there going cheap...
This bike ticked all the boxes I’d identified for my first “analog” bike after 7 years on a Class 1 e-bike (I’m 75 and have bad knees). I have bike serial number 000005, and I’m loving it! Even if I could have afforded the Pinion I would have had a hard time deciding.
Panorama are bike packing specialists. They are a Canadian brand not far from where I live and they have engineers who are looking to create unique, purpose-specific steel adventure bikes for the back roads, at very competitive prices for the recreational cyclist. They are a small company and if you write them, you get an answer from someone who is building the bikes. It is very understandable to me why they chose CUES because low price and useful gearing is what they aim for. They are 650b fans too and offer steel forks. I have no connection with the company, but am considering building up a bike from them, because of the details in their stock frames.
626% on my gravel setup with old 9 speed deore derailleur and cranks. But old parts are getting hard to find so this setup is ideal for those wanting new equipment
@@roebust Able to get an 11-42 cassette with 36/22 cranks. No derrailleur hanger extender required, just needed a longer b screw. And w/9 speed can use my 105 shifters.
I'm loving the Cues 2x setup on our Bridgeclub project. It just works and is an incredible value. I'm still rooting for Microshift in this category but it's good that Shimano is also focused on producing good products in this price range.
This is the content we need! Really helpful and surprising, thanks for highlighting this - especially in a world of high priced road spec shifters gravel bikes.
Since 6 years I use a 22/36 (10 speed) Shimano crankset with 11 speed 11-50 cassette with a S-Ride RD-M500 rear derailleur and Shimano 11 speed chain. It works perfectly since more than 16000 kilometers with even a bigger range. We need the small gear for our fully packed bike packing trips in the alps...
When I saw the title of the video I KNEW you'd be talking about CUES. A while back Rivendell offered a 9-speed CUES deraileur AND shifter for $10 (just checked, still available) which I bought. In order to make it work I bought a 2x CUES square taper 40-24 crankset, an 11-36 9-speed CUES cassette, A CUES front shifter and chain. All in for about $100. As soon as they turn off the blowtorch in my garage (I live near Phoenix) I'm gonna install it on a 90s Trek mountain bike just to see how it works.
That is incredible. Thank you. I have been looking for a 3x bike for my wife, just to get the gear inches down. We are up in the North Cascades and it is nothing but up where we’re at. Saved my bacon. Again thank you Russ.
The few reviews I'm finding really support it for touring and cross country riding. Like, off road cross country. It isn't the fastest, but it's super consistent. I actually just upgraded my 12 year old to a 1x11 cues and it's great. 40t in the front and 11-45 in the back. Up to 8% grades, up or down, I'm only using like 4 or 5 of them. When i pushed the shifting on the downhill, it never felt like I had to "lever into it." The bottom bracket and crankset feel really nice, too. Very smooth pedaling and a solid power transfer. But like people have said, marketed as an included product line and for e-bikes, so no press for the broader uses when it's apparently pretty bomb proof for touring, urban, moderate trail riding, etc.
I'm running an 11s cues "kit" (rear derailleur, 11-45, chain and trigger) with the bike's original 24-34-42 crankset on my commuter. Only complaint is downshift is only two gears max per stroke (still miss my XT 4 max per stroke from the late 90s).
I’ve looked at components for a commute and literally touring bike and haven’t heard of Shimano Cues before. Now I need to remodel and rethink what is offered in this market. Thanks for informing about this wide range gear system. 🤩
One big downside is that they are listed as riveted. Though the crank really isn't the interesting part here. The derailleur and cassette should work with any mtb double or square taper 3x converted to double
@@ericginsburg7192 the cassettes are heavy, due to teeth thickness; they seem to be designed to hold up to ebike mid-motors. And a bike mechanic told me that cog-chamge on shifts are slow, largely due to cassette design; "good for his commuter bike, but not his trail bike".
I'm running a 2 by on all my bikes, 22 small and 32, 33, 34 and 36 big rings, and 32, 34 and 36 on the rear. My gravel bike has a 24 small 38 big and it works great
I’m happy Shimano is coming out with more reasonably priced components and (perhaps) more cross-compatible components. I wish they were better looking. It used to be that drive train components added to the looks of a bike. Now they detract.
I am running a 38-28, 11-34 Alivio. If i "downgraded" to Shimano 8-speed Acera, i could use CS-HG400-8 11-45 cassette and a matching Acera derailleur. That's been available before Cues came into the scene. Can get even more range if i go 3X. Range is not everything, that's why i'm sticking to my current Alivio setup. Won't even bother getting the 11-36 cassette, or maybe i'd get one if i upgraded to a 46-30 crankset.
Shimano has wide range 2x11 and 2x12 in Deore, SLX, XT and XTR as well. And had it for ages but nobody talked about them as well. So they've just continued it into the CUES range.
Yeah, but the HG cassettes marketed for 2x use only go to 42T, and the rear derailleurs don't have the capacity that the CUES rear derailleur has. That said CUES is too heavy for my liking.
Knew it was Cues before you said it was Cues. That drivetrain is pretty amazing for the price point. I put two of the 6000 series ones on my kids' mountain bikes. Shifter, derailleur, chain and cassette cost me less than 150 in total per set and they work great! I have no idea why Shimano is so quiet about them and why you can barely get them aside from ebay or something. If you want to upgrade an old bike for not a lot of money, these are amazing.
After coming back from a wonderful rail trail tour that trashed my GX-NX Eagle, I am so ready for 2x10 CUES with friction shifting on my Surly Bridge Club. The bike needs to do fully loaded touring but do great on long day hill country dirt road and gravel. My commuter will still be 8 speed Alfine but that is getting around town with groceries.
Do you feel the Alfine is not up to touring for some reason? I have been getting interested in the idea of internal gear hubs and belt drives for the purpose of reducing maintenance, but kind of need a bike that will do everything (mostly commuting, but also bikepacking) apart from actual mountain biking. That in mind, I am trying to collect opinions about both components.
@@joelhenderson3723 No I don’t think the Alfine is up to the torque or range of gears for loaded touring. The is a TH-camr, Cycling About, that covers this is a very experienced and knowledgable way.
I have 2x10 XTR on my XC bike and it is amazing. I have all the low and top I need. I can run a 42t front which on flat gives me almost road bike speed. I think a lot of people have trouble understanding front derailures. I meet a lot of soo called cyclists that can't figure out how gears actually work. 1x is fisherprice for beginners. Sure it's lighter..but when you get to 13 and 14 speed it isn't really..and the range still isn't all there.
Way cool info...........thanks Russ, for the content you provide. While I'm not in the market (nor much interested) in any new/current drivetrain bits, it's always great to know what's out there and available, especially when it's something odd and actually useful for folks such as ourselves. My own setup, on my do-everything touring/gravel/utility/cruising/commuting bike, looks like this: 3 x 9 drivetrain. Cooks E Cranks with 20/32/42 chainrings. Older Shimano "mega-9" derailleurs. "Shimano" 11-36, 9x cassette, (actually one of the various chinese knock-offs that works just fine). Microshift 9x thumbshifters (with my own custom-bodged mounts so that they work on my Cowchipper drop bars)\ 9x Connex chain. (note: that I'm running 700x50c tires) (note also that I'm using a Phil bb, so that I can dial in a perfect chainline...important when running 3x chainrings) 16.32 to 104.16 gear inches...........612% spread. As damn near perfect for me and my needs as it gets.
Well, not me; I still use an oldschool mechanic 10speed Campagnolo barend shifter converted to 11 speed to be able to use a perfect stepped 11-23 11speed cassette, but the rest of the components are also still the same nice and goodlooking Campagnolo Record carbon 10 speed components, including square taper Record carbon cranks, all on my beloved cherry-red metallic Giant Cadex CFR. The new things may be shiny, but not good; newer does not necessarily mean better. For me the new components look all the same, you need to take a closer look wether it is Shimano, or Campagnolo, just like with modern cars.
True. I have 3x9 alivio for my first bike, then got tiagra 2x10, and deore 1x11. The gear for alivio was tight enough for cadence, and wide enough for climbing gravel.
Rockin Sram eTap Rival 2x12 with a GRX 30/46 crank (wide FD) and the 10-36 cassette for 552% range (eagle chain). Not cheap but tight spacing, flawless shifting, and blip buttons on my aero bars (run them when bike packing). It's about as perfect as it gets for a drop bar go fast bike.
As a mechanic, I told it a few times, to my customers! 3 x 10 was perfect, and the last " allmost" perfect drive train was 2 x 11! Now, with the Cues Cassette, even more reliable
Russ, I don't know if you have tested it before, but Microshift make a 10-speed Shimano MTB compatible rear derailleur, the RD-M62L. It has 47T capacity, and up to 42T cassette supported. Pair that with a 40/26 crankset, and you also get a massive range!
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 the Micro shift 10 speed comes with a cassette that si 11-48, not 11-47.. at least the one i rode a few years ago. The cassette was almost positively made by Sunrace as all the cogs are the exact same teeth number and construction and assembled exactly like the Sunrace cassette, , with the exception of the largest cog at 48t instead of the 46t sunrace. BTW, I visited the Taipei Sunrace factory in Taipei in 2019 ( I had an 8 hour layover at the airport and looked them up.. they were only 4 kilometers away from the airport). They were very cordial when I showed up unannounced at the security gate house.The guard called up and they came out, met me, took me inside and showed me their newest products and chatted with me for about forty five minutes. They seemed slightly surprised to hear just how successful I had been racing their 11-46t cassette on my 3 x 10 xc bike.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 Shimano's Deore XT has the same capacity (RD-T8000-SGS), but it supports up to 36T cassette, because it's designed for a 3x10 drivetrain.
I'm using a Microshift, R9 I think, long cage road RD, with an 11-36 cassette, 50/34 cranks, and mated to Ultegra 10 speed brifters. Almost gives me the range I'm looking for. Wouldn't mind a bit more down lower!
That's an interesting choice. For another option, I just completed a drivetrain using the Shimano RD-M5120 which has a ton of cross compatibility: 10 or 11 speed, a 42T max cog when used in 2x or 46T in 1x, and a 41T capacity that I blew past to 45T and it still works (26/42 in front, 11-42 in rear). There's also a clutch. Costs about the same as that Microshift.
I can still get parts for my 3×10 Mtb. The prices I found in a general sports store are: 10x cassette Deore HG50 11-36 €40. Rear shifter + derailleur Deore/SLX S6000 10 speed €25 + €55. Add to that the mentioned 2x crank at €28 plus a 2x shifter. Deore, while middle of the line quality, after 25k of off-roading I've only changed the cassete twice, a few chains, one rear shifter and one crankshaft bearings. I'm not a powerful biker though, prefer higher cadence before power pedalling. My gear range is typical for a 3x10, not as wide as the mentioned one but then one can only go so slowly uphill before falling over or too fast on a non-road bike. I enjoy my small gear jumps though. So, yes, you can get cheap parts to make an all-around usable bicycle. Get a nice frame and go for it.
I put a 1x 10 together recently and cues was actually the cheapest clutch rear derailleur I could find locally. My only concern, the pull ratio. You mention in this and previous videos. If I have a problem somewhere remote with the derailleur... I love in Australia though and must assume the lbs anywhere hopefully have cues in store
You are the to-go channel for the "real rider". This is an interesting find. What I am looking for is a fairly wide range 8, 9 or max. 10 gear system with one chain ring. I do not mind somewhat wider gear steps, as I am not a racer or mountain climber, or out to optimize cadence under all condition. The hole thing with reasonable durability and a reasonable price.
I did a tour here in the Philippines where i jumbled up a mini velo with 20x1.95 tires and a triple crank set 48/34/24 and 11-40 cogset. The idea is that i do not want to push a bike due to my lower back pain. As long i am within walking speed i am good pedaling than pushing. Not sure how to compute the gear ratio but i think mine is way bigger than the cues but the topic is production indexed groupset so mine don't count.
Hey Russ, great and informative content as always, I love to see as Shimano cues Vs Microshift Sword groupset comparison/stand off….thanks for all the content!
I’ve been paying attention to what gears I really need mountain biking and I believe I can get by with only 450%. With a 10-45 SLX 12 speed and a 26t chainring (not common, but I can get them for certain cranks). This gets me 16.8-75.4 gear inches. If I need a lower gear, I get off and push. I don’t need a higher gear as I don’t ride pavement and I don’t like to pedal at high speeds on dirt - coasting is safer.
When I seen the title I thought you would talk about forgotten 3x11 Deore drivetrain. 2x CUES looks interesting given the price but I still think 2x GRX mullet can get you roughly same range. You can find more bikes with GRX 2x11 drivetrain. For the mullet builds, I want to see what can be done with mish mash of parts that use Campy Ekar to make real adventure 2x13 dropbar setup
Ei rus, been watching ur reviews bout wide range for a while, it seems good for a daily commute.. Recently, just built mine with crank set 2x (42/28) combined with 11-46t cassette (11spd) & my RD is shimano m-6000 (10spd). And guess what, it works smooth, just got inspired with all of your test combinations. Thanks
Been riding 1x Linkglide XT on my Omnium for around a year and put on 3-4k miles - won't ride anything else in the future. Shifts super smooth and doesn't break.
I run 9 speed Sora and a short cage rear mech. An Alivio 11-36 cassette works (as long as you don't try big ring big cog). The alivio long cage mech I bought could probably squeeze out to 46t.
I wish you brought this out earlier lol 😂 I have been struggling to get my 2x cues system to work on a 11 to 48 cassette. I currently have gear positions that I stay out of because of chain length too short and too long. I am going to give the 8020 a go to hopefully get more gear options with less risk to damaging something. Thanks again for your content.
See what you did there. Back in the day there was a company that offered an extra-small fourth chainring, how about adding that and switching to a 13-speed Campagnolo- or Rotor-setup? It will increase your number of available gears from 3x18x12x14 (9,072) to 4x18x13x14 (13,104)!
Love your not so mainstream content! Do you have any idea where to get 165mm cranksets? Shimano seems to do only 170 and 175mm, except for road groupsets.
AFAIK is CUES only "designed" for hydraulic disc brakes so upcoming brifters probably won't work with rim brakes and mechanical discs. I'm looking forward to more hacks to use the Microsfhit brifters or other solutions like pull-ration-converters or something.
Can we please please get more info about the Essa derailleur? The ability to use 9 speed brifters with a derailleur that can handle a 11-45t cassette would be AWESOME
Consider the Jtek shiftmate for using brifters. I got the Shiftmate 6 to allow my DiaCompe friction shifter that can do 11spd road to have enough cable pull for the CUES 8020. Pretty sure the 6 is the one you need for 10 or 11 spd shifters. CUES seems to use 1.05 as their pull ratio
Shimano GRX RD handles 11-42 cassette with road pull ratio, so not sure I see this as THAT revolutionary. Would be interesting to see if GRX can handle 11-45.
Never understood why people would opt for a 1x when there is more range available using a 2x (unless it's a city bike or MTB downhill rocket). More range is better, imo! Thanks for the experimentation and review, great!
You should check out the Dutch company that tests all these drivetrains. They finally allowed a reviewing test mechanic to release the information publicly. It's very interesting. SRAM being the slowest and their top spec AXS XO is slower than their cheaper XX. They didn’t want to upset any manufacturers over the years. They do a lot of testing for chains as well for stuff they use that needs to be running perfectly. Shimano XT was the fastest out of Shimano's drivetrains on the dynos and computer graphs, wind tunnels, etc. If I can find it in my history, I'll come back and attach the link to the video. It’s definitely something everyone needs to see.
I suppose you could easily pair up with a low-end MTB triple crankset - but it does require square tapered BB. A bit less modern. but cheaper and wider range + square tapered BB tend to last long
On the drop bar conversion, I looked at the pull ratios and it seems like SRAM mechanical Exact Actuation brifters may work. If you have a right Force or Rival 22 right brifter, that would be cool. Cheers.
I initially thought Cues (i didnt like the name) was going to be lame so I stand humbly corrected. Finally subcompact cranks on a budget. Awesome Thank you for doing the legwork. (pun intended)
Great stuff. I'd be interested in seeing you cobble together a dropbar setup with this. I recently upgraded from friction shifters to 2×7 LTwoo brifters on my entry-level tourney bike and the improvement in shifting was incredible l. Now im chomping at the bit for the next affordable upgrade
That Essa derailleur looks neat, kind of fills the same niche as the Sunrace RDM900 that I think you've looked at before. I've been using the Sunrace on a 9 speed gravel conversion for a bit so waiting to see if it holds up as well as the generally bombproof Shimano stuff
Do I really need the Cues crankset? They sure look heavy. It seems like a light weight triple MtB crank set using the Granny & middle rings could accomplish the same thing & make a bit more space in my 'junk drawer'.
You could also use the Deore 5100 range for cranks, which are pretty cheap and versatile, with exchangable chain rings. No idea about the weight though.
I've got a spare 3x 22/33/44 lying around and am going to build up a road bike with it soon. Will test my 11-42 cassette and see what happens. That's a lot of range but I doubt my current rear mech could take it. I think with enough fiddling, you can probably get most things to work
I have the linkglide xt on my mountain bike (human powered) and it is the best drivetrain I have ever had. I have two full 12 speed kits in my parts drawer and I can tell you now they will never be used.
Given that you can run 46t on a GRX812 rear derailleur with a stated capacity of 42t (that's the setup I have on my gravel/commuter bike, totally stock without a goat link or any other hacks)I wouldn't be surprised if you could run 50t on a Shimano derailleur with a 45t stated capacity - they seem to be pretty conservative with their specs.
Can anyone explain the math here: Min: 26:45 = 0,5777 Max: 40:11= 3,6363 Overall gear range is Max:Minx100 -> 3,6363 : 0,5777 = 6,29444 * 100 = 629,44% and not 669% as claimed… What am I doing wrong?
These videos are a good service. It's kind of like Hot rod bicycling. I figure there are two tiers for cars. There's the expensive Italian sports cars for the rich folks. Then there's a guy with an old Chevy looking for better performance. He uses bolt on parts. I see these videos being more of the latter category.
Yeah, no road shifters... but interesting! I've gone to Microshift sword 1x and I'm loving it! I am wondering if you could hack the sword 1x rear derailler with the 2x front derailleur and still get the 11x48 rear and maybe something like a 40x?? in the front? Or maybe the 2x rear derailleur might work with the 11x48? The default 1x Sword gives me the (low) range I had on my old 2x with the simplicity of a 1x and for me that's what mattered... At the cost of some high gears that were mostly aspirational... but I get wanting more range.
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Seriously mindblowing. I didn't even believe it when I chose it for my Adventure Bike build. Like, seriously, too good to be true. I had a mini anxiety attack the night before filming my build video thinking I'd get it on the bike and learn I was an idiot to think it would work. Well...it works, and it works GREAT! And they say it's 3x more durable? I mean...why even bother with the other stuff. I'm officially a fan of 11 speed CUES.
You're that farmer dude🤙🏼
@@kaffeemitcola6506 it will work after 30 or 40 years
@@kaffeemitcola6506 it will. The low end Shimano stuff like this will lasts longer than the high end stuff.
@@kaffeemitcola6506 Even if it doesnt work after 3-4 years, as long as its only the chain and casette its not too expensive.
@@kaffeemitcola6506show me a bike component that works that long without any maintenance.
This is the only channel with real bicycle fundamentals at its core, thanks for keeping to the basics Russ.
This information is way more valuable than other channels
I've gotten lazy with maintenance which is why I love my Pinion and belt drive, but this is impressive stuff from Shimano. If I go back to traditional drive train, this is probably the way to go. Would love to see more about it!
This is seriously the only direction the industry can go to stay viable, making it affordable and versitile.
There is such a huge amount of folks like myself that could never afford these ridiculously high prices like those derailleurs and these other bikes/components on the market.
Outpricing people is insane and not sustainable. Hopefully Cues sets a new industry trend so more people have access to good quality cycling!
Agreed, unfortunately the industry doesnt seem to be slowing down the price point increases, though theres plenty of people like us not willing or able to meet those price points, theres still loads of people out there spending tons of money on all the newest tech as it comes out.
Thats why Ive been buying mostly secondhand stuff to build/maintain my bikes 🤣
I can afford it and still don’t find AXS worth the money, I’ll take this over the super light, high end, fast wearing stuff all day. Rider makes more difference than a few hundred grams.
If you go outside Shimano, there are groups with very high level features for 1/3 of the price.
Exactly! Bikes and components that we all can afford. This is the first time I hear about Cues.
I work in a bike shop, and the insights and knowledge you give into Cues, I'm sure will cover this donation. I'm super curious to see how drop bar cues pans out!
Shimano existed when cycling was a minor hobby, not a phenomenal market driven profit making industry!
The nice thing about the 2x Cues 6020 build is that it is at the theoretical maximum range for its capacity and the small front chainring size. If you fix the capacity, C and front small chainring FS (and rear small RS=11 ), then after some differentiation, you can find the optimal front difference (or equivalently large front chainring size) that maximizes the range. The large rear sprocket is set by the remaining capacity. The formula is FD=(RS+C-FS)/2. At this optimal value the largest front and rear sprockets are the same size FB=RB=FS+FD (though the theoretical value may be a fraction). This analysis tells us how to distribute the capacity between front and back for a given FS size such that the range is maximized.
For the 6020-11 (C=48) here are the results
FS=22: Front: 22/41, Rear: 11/40, Range: 678% (FB of 40-42 and correspondingly RB of 41-39 give almost identical range)
FS=26: Front 26/42, Rear: 11/43, Range: 631% (neighbouring values give almost identical range)
FS=30: Front: 30/45, Rear: 11/44 Range: 600% (neighbouring values give almost identical range)
FS=32: Front: 32/46, Rear: 11/45 Range: 588% (neighbouring values give almost identical range)
The 6020 has a 14 tooth max FD so the FS=30 option might notwork but could be adjusted to 30/44 11/45, which has the same 600% range. The FS=22 optimal config has a front difference of 19, well beyond the limit, while the FS=26 config has a front difference of 16 which might work or could be dropped to 14 for a very similar range.
So what cranks are available for the 6020-11? We have 22/36 and 32/46 in the 6000 series and a 26/40 in the 4000 series. There is a 30/46 but that is for 10 speed (the 6020-10 has a lower capacity and higher max front difference).
From the numbers above, we can see that the 32/46 provides the optimal range for a 32 small chainring.The 26/40 is also very close to optimal. Only the 22/36 is a bit off, providing 669% instead of the optimum of 678% achievable with a wider crank and narrower cassete. But overall very close. This is all achievable because of the 45 max rear sprocket size of the 6020, something we didn't have before.
For comparison, my M610 deraileur has a capacity of 43 (max front difference of 22) and my crank is 26/36/48. For a 26 small front chainring and 43 capacity, the best range would be achieved with a front difference of 14 i.e. 26/40 on the front and 11-40 on the back. This would give a range of 559% with this deraileaur compared to the 537% I have now.
A small difference perhaps, but the fact that Cues brings us close to the optimal configuration appeals to my mathematical sensibilities.
I've been using 2x Cues system now for 2000-2500 km with friction shifting and of course Uno for the rear derailleur. Originally I had 10 speed cassette at the back, but the gears never felt like they were on. I think it was somehow my fault, but still I put on an 8 speed cassette and since it's worked flawless. At least for friction I like it that Cues derailleur is perhaps a bit rough when it changes, because it's easier for me to know when it's making the changes. Yesterday I rode 52 km including 20 km gravel and the rest pavement in about 1h 50min. My Singular Peregrine sure ain't the lightest of the bikse and I had my Carradice Nelson and a frame bag full of stuff and that's all the speed I will ever need. From my experience Cues works flawlessly. All this remainds me that I learned everything about Cues and friction shifting from this channel, so it's time to go to Patreon. Thank you, Russ, for all of your work!
SHIMANO ACERA Rear Derailleur 8-speed RD-M3020-8 long *25, Shimano HG51 8-Speed Cassette (11-32) *20, Front Derailleur Altus FD-M310 3x7/8 * 20, Shimano M361 Hybrid Crankset *35 (42-22 bolt on chain rings), 9 speed chain for more wiggle room on friction shifters *20. this is what im rocking, loving it, dont break the bank either. the cage still has some room to tweak a higher high or lower low if needed. 4.82-.69
Do you mean 3.82? Haven't worked it out exactly but 42-11 is definitely less than 4 :-)
@@The1trueDave yup, 3.82. numbers are hard sometimes. lol
I've been running 1x9 CUES for a while now (U4000 rear, U6000 front), and I can confirm that is quite nice, even great, I could say. The shifting is lighyears away compared to other cheap-o 1x9's. And the 11-46T cassette is more than enough for me (32T front)
My 3x9 system has 910% bandwith with rear 11-50 and front 48-32-24 😅
A mixed system of mtb components in the rear and road in the front.
Like rd-m7000 as the rear derailleur.
I was going to comment this. My 3x 9-speed with an 11-50 has crazy range and everyone in the bike industry acts like it doesn't exist. It baffles me.
It surely isn't the best option for a lot of applications and people, but as an overweight person who also loads their bike and lives in a hilly area, I need the low gears. As someone who loves mashing down hills, I need high gears. There are no-no gears, but I don't mind having to avoid cross-chaining. So yeah, not for everyone, but perfect for me.
@@firehazard1792 i have both. Some hills and flat streets. I make that bike to my needs and i must push 120 kg ( with steel bike) the hills up.
I dont say anything about the Industrie
and my bike? I dont thing that my mix mullet setup would someone buy.
I use parts outside any specs from shimano.
Its bad that everywhere the 1x drivetrain is hyped and said its the best.
For me is crap. 1x is only specific on hill or road but not both.
I run a 3 x 10 with a very similar configuration on my older mtb and it works fine. It feels as though the industry decided 25 years ago how low a bottom gear should be and has stuck within that framework ever since.
Again I’m probably atypical but I live in a hilly area, am an older parent at 50 and regularly take my young kids out on the trailer or shotgun seat. There is no such thing as too low a gear.
Interesting!🤔What cassette? Would that setup work with economy brifters, like Microshift R9?
Personally, for my monstercross daypack build, I would probably go with something like 40-30-22 on an 11-42 for a shorter chain that slaps less when jumped.. and, in personal experience, anything over 100 gear inches off road is "being ambitious" at best, while the tween gear-inch ratios on the low end help spin uphill on a single track without getting out of the saddle.. But, that's very IMHO/YMMV.
It's a shame the industry decided to brush the 3x drivetrains under the rug -- they're not that much heavier or complex than a 2x!
@@-Gothicgirl- Oh sorry, I know you weren't talking about the bike industry. I probably should have made my own comment instead of hitching on to yours. My mullet road bike is very similar to yours and I think it would serve the needs of other people too.
I guess you could say Shimano did Create a Unique Experience,,,
Ha. Its slowly growing on me.
LOL
That is indeed something one could say...
@@PathLessPedaledTV in Cues 11 - speed there is also cassette variant with with 11-50T which with front 22/36T would give 744% and it should work, but I don't think it would make any sense to have so low gear, maybe someone would want to have that cassette with 26/40T which would give 699% or with 30/46T which would give 697%.
@@czaja995 I think the problem with these wide ranges around 700% will be the maximum capacity of the rear derailleur. Even if you can still use them reliably well outside the official specification, at some point the end will come. The problem is the combination of large-large and small-small sprockets. Even if you are not supposed to ride this combination, it still has to be safe enough that nothing happens. It can happen quite quickly in practice. With large-large, the chain must be long enough to prevent the rear derailleur from breaking. With small-small, the chain must not sag so much that it slips or falls off the chainrings.
Awesome, can’t wait for the results with drop bar shifters!
Hi Russ Shimano have made a number of extremely wide range drive trains over the last few years but the media does not seem interested and only because of my own interest and backpacking bikes up of fitted them to a number of my bikes.
First there was Shimano XT 3x11, then the Shimano XT 2x12 and lower end models of these twodrive trains.
I learned about the Shimano Cues in early 2021 because of my love of extreme gear range drive trains and the local Shimano rep who knew I would be one of the few that would like the new product range.
There is a number of road bike shifters coming to suit this group set .
And it’s a way of shops not having to carry so much product to be able to fix more customers bikes.
Unfortunately, because of a severe Brain Injury from an accident (would’ve been dead if I had not been wearing a helmet) and having to stop working and riding I forgot all about it.
There was a timeframe some of the information I got to see with different parts of the group System being released .
@overland_adventure_nz Hey kiwi farmer, you have done some very interesting trips in some very interesting places. And thanks for the playlist compilations; sorting the wheat from the chaff so to speak. I'll be working through them and will keep checking in for new ones. Wishing you well post concussion.
I like curly bars. GIVE US THE CUES BRIFTERS damn it! (I mean Shimano not you Russ!)
Great discussion and I agree cues is a good affordable option and I used the 6000 series cues 2x11 to convert my old Giant CRX1 hybrid bike without changing the 50/34 chainrings.
Shifting is smooth and reliable unlike my 1x12 bike.
Here is a summary:
GIANT CRX 1, 50/34T, 11-28T 10 SPEED Conversion to Cues 6000 - (2X11)
CASSETTE: SHIMANO LINKGLIDE Cassette 11-speed 11-45T [Model No: CS-LG400-11],
DERAILLEUR: REAR SHIMANO CUES SHADOW RD 11-SPEED [Model No: RD-U6020-11],
SHIFTER: SHIMANO CUES RAPIDFIRE PLUS SHIFTER CLAMP BAND 11-SPEED [Model No: SL-U6000-11R]
Chain - 10/11-speed LINKGLIDE Chain [Model No: CN-LG500]
My wife's rim brake road bike from 2015 has a Deore 36/22 crankset with a 11-42 cassette on the back and it works with a short cage rear derailleur and a road link.
Did she watch a lot of durianrider videos? He made that hack popular back then for people trying Everesting and epic climbing rides. I'm not sure it works as well with modern short cage stuff but the old parts are out there going cheap...
This bike ticked all the boxes I’d identified for my first “analog” bike after 7 years on a Class 1 e-bike (I’m 75 and have bad knees). I have bike serial number 000005, and I’m loving it!
Even if I could have afforded the Pinion I would have had a hard time deciding.
Panorama are bike packing specialists. They are a Canadian brand not far from where I live and they have engineers who are looking to create unique, purpose-specific steel adventure bikes for the back roads, at very competitive prices for the recreational cyclist. They are a small company and if you write them, you get an answer from someone who is building the bikes. It is very understandable to me why they chose CUES because low price and useful gearing is what they aim for. They are 650b fans too and offer steel forks. I have no connection with the company, but am considering building up a bike from them, because of the details in their stock frames.
🙌❤️
626% on my gravel setup with old 9 speed deore derailleur and cranks. But old parts are getting hard to find so this setup is ideal for those wanting new equipment
What cassette are you running?
@@roebust Able to get an 11-42 cassette with 36/22 cranks. No derrailleur hanger extender required, just needed a longer b screw. And w/9 speed can use my 105 shifters.
I'm loving the Cues 2x setup on our Bridgeclub project. It just works and is an incredible value. I'm still rooting for Microshift in this category but it's good that Shimano is also focused on producing good products in this price range.
This is the content we need! Really helpful and surprising, thanks for highlighting this - especially in a world of high priced road spec shifters gravel bikes.
Since 6 years I use a 22/36 (10 speed) Shimano crankset with 11 speed 11-50 cassette with a S-Ride RD-M500 rear derailleur and Shimano 11 speed chain. It works perfectly since more than 16000 kilometers with even a bigger range. We need the small gear for our fully packed bike packing trips in the alps...
When I saw the title of the video I KNEW you'd be talking about CUES. A while back Rivendell offered a 9-speed CUES deraileur AND shifter for $10 (just checked, still available) which I bought. In order to make it work I bought a 2x CUES square taper 40-24 crankset, an 11-36 9-speed CUES cassette, A CUES front shifter and chain. All in for about $100. As soon as they turn off the blowtorch in my garage (I live near Phoenix) I'm gonna install it on a 90s Trek mountain bike just to see how it works.
By far the MOST INFORMATIVE VIDEO EVER. No one comes close, this man just plainly tells the truth.
Appreciate the info. Still rocking 3x9s
That is incredible. Thank you.
I have been looking for a 3x bike for my wife, just to get the gear inches down.
We are up in the North Cascades and it is nothing but up where we’re at. Saved my bacon. Again thank you Russ.
This kind of content is why I support your Patreon channel.
The few reviews I'm finding really support it for touring and cross country riding. Like, off road cross country. It isn't the fastest, but it's super consistent. I actually just upgraded my 12 year old to a 1x11 cues and it's great. 40t in the front and 11-45 in the back. Up to 8% grades, up or down, I'm only using like 4 or 5 of them. When i pushed the shifting on the downhill, it never felt like I had to "lever into it." The bottom bracket and crankset feel really nice, too. Very smooth pedaling and a solid power transfer. But like people have said, marketed as an included product line and for e-bikes, so no press for the broader uses when it's apparently pretty bomb proof for touring, urban, moderate trail riding, etc.
I'm running an 11s cues "kit" (rear derailleur, 11-45, chain and trigger) with the bike's original 24-34-42 crankset on my commuter. Only complaint is downshift is only two gears max per stroke (still miss my XT 4 max per stroke from the late 90s).
That pizza analogy was absolutely perfect
Looks like I found my crank for my wide range double! Thank you Russ!
I’ve looked at components for a commute and literally touring bike and haven’t heard of Shimano Cues before. Now I need to remodel and rethink what is offered in this market. Thanks for informing about this wide range gear system. 🤩
One big downside is that they are listed as riveted. Though the crank really isn't the interesting part here. The derailleur and cassette should work with any mtb double or square taper 3x converted to double
Or Shimano Octalink or SRAM/Truvativ Power Spline. Lots of lightly used ones on eBay.
I came here to say the same thing. A pretty crappy (and heavy) throwaway crank, IMHO.
@@watertankhikes You will almost never see an influencer promoting the use of anything but brand new items.
I may pick up a rear der and a cassette or two. Thanks for the idea.
@@ericginsburg7192 the cassettes are heavy, due to teeth thickness; they seem to be designed to hold up to ebike mid-motors. And a bike mechanic told me that cog-chamge on shifts are slow, largely due to cassette design; "good for his commuter bike, but not his trail bike".
Thank you. Once again im going back to the drawing board on a project with this info. Love the channel.
I'm running a 2 by on all my bikes, 22 small and 32, 33, 34 and 36 big rings, and 32, 34 and 36 on the rear. My gravel bike has a 24 small 38 big and it works great
I’m happy Shimano is coming out with more reasonably priced components and (perhaps) more cross-compatible components. I wish they were better looking. It used to be that drive train components added to the looks of a bike. Now they detract.
They don't want to give it ALL to you.... necessary to have lust for the $$$ gear! And it works!
I am running a 38-28, 11-34 Alivio. If i "downgraded" to Shimano 8-speed Acera, i could use CS-HG400-8 11-45 cassette and a matching Acera derailleur. That's been available before Cues came into the scene. Can get even more range if i go 3X.
Range is not everything, that's why i'm sticking to my current Alivio setup. Won't even bother getting the 11-36 cassette, or maybe i'd get one if i upgraded to a 46-30 crankset.
Shimano has wide range 2x11 and 2x12 in Deore, SLX, XT and XTR as well. And had it for ages but nobody talked about them as well. So they've just continued it into the CUES range.
Yeah, but the HG cassettes marketed for 2x use only go to 42T, and the rear derailleurs don't have the capacity that the CUES rear derailleur has. That said CUES is too heavy for my liking.
@@watertankhikes - 2x cassettes are 10-45. With 36-26 chainrings it gives 623% of range.
Knew it was Cues before you said it was Cues. That drivetrain is pretty amazing for the price point. I put two of the 6000 series ones on my kids' mountain bikes. Shifter, derailleur, chain and cassette cost me less than 150 in total per set and they work great! I have no idea why Shimano is so quiet about them and why you can barely get them aside from ebay or something. If you want to upgrade an old bike for not a lot of money, these are amazing.
After coming back from a wonderful rail trail tour that trashed my GX-NX Eagle, I am so ready for 2x10 CUES with friction shifting on my Surly Bridge Club. The bike needs to do fully loaded touring but do great on long day hill country dirt road and gravel. My commuter will still be 8 speed Alfine but that is getting around town with groceries.
Do you feel the Alfine is not up to touring for some reason? I have been getting interested in the idea of internal gear hubs and belt drives for the purpose of reducing maintenance, but kind of need a bike that will do everything (mostly commuting, but also bikepacking) apart from actual mountain biking.
That in mind, I am trying to collect opinions about both components.
@@joelhenderson3723 No I don’t think the Alfine is up to the torque or range of gears for loaded touring. The is a TH-camr, Cycling About, that covers this is a very experienced and knowledgable way.
I have 2x10 XTR on my XC bike and it is amazing. I have all the low and top I need. I can run a 42t front which on flat gives me almost road bike speed. I think a lot of people have trouble understanding front derailures. I meet a lot of soo called cyclists that can't figure out how gears actually work. 1x is fisherprice for beginners. Sure it's lighter..but when you get to 13 and 14 speed it isn't really..and the range still isn't all there.
Imagine Campagnolo creating Cues instead od Shimano. The futures that would open
Way cool info...........thanks Russ, for the content you provide.
While I'm not in the market (nor much interested) in any new/current drivetrain bits, it's always great to know what's out there and available, especially when it's something odd and actually useful for folks such as ourselves.
My own setup, on my do-everything touring/gravel/utility/cruising/commuting bike, looks like this:
3 x 9 drivetrain.
Cooks E Cranks with 20/32/42 chainrings.
Older Shimano "mega-9" derailleurs.
"Shimano" 11-36, 9x cassette, (actually one of the various chinese knock-offs that works just fine).
Microshift 9x thumbshifters (with my own custom-bodged mounts so that they work on my Cowchipper drop bars)\
9x Connex chain.
(note: that I'm running 700x50c tires) (note also that I'm using a Phil bb, so that I can dial in a perfect chainline...important when running 3x chainrings)
16.32 to 104.16 gear inches...........612% spread.
As damn near perfect for me and my needs as it gets.
I wish I would have known this sooner. I spent more than enough on A new group set for my surly trucker build.
Nobody talks about ESSA either. A wide range shimano 8 speed group that works with existing shimano 8 speed cable pull
3x7 friction shifter system works fine for majority of rides. But most of the times we wanna the shinny, new, good things in our bikes.
Well, not me; I still use an oldschool mechanic 10speed Campagnolo barend shifter converted to 11 speed to be able to use a perfect stepped 11-23 11speed cassette, but the rest of the components are also still the same nice and goodlooking Campagnolo Record carbon 10 speed components, including square taper Record carbon cranks, all on my beloved cherry-red metallic Giant Cadex CFR. The new things may be shiny, but not good; newer does not necessarily mean better. For me the new components look all the same, you need to take a closer look wether it is Shimano, or Campagnolo, just like with modern cars.
True. I have 3x9 alivio for my first bike, then got tiagra 2x10, and deore 1x11. The gear for alivio was tight enough for cadence, and wide enough for climbing gravel.
Rockin Sram eTap Rival 2x12 with a GRX 30/46 crank (wide FD) and the 10-36 cassette for 552% range (eagle chain). Not cheap but tight spacing, flawless shifting, and blip buttons on my aero bars (run them when bike packing). It's about as perfect as it gets for a drop bar go fast bike.
As a mechanic, I told it a few times, to my customers!
3 x 10 was perfect, and the last " allmost" perfect drive train was 2 x 11! Now, with the Cues Cassette, even more reliable
Russ, I don't know if you have tested it before, but Microshift make a 10-speed Shimano MTB compatible rear derailleur, the RD-M62L. It has 47T capacity, and up to 42T cassette supported. Pair that with a 40/26 crankset, and you also get a massive range!
47t capacity? WHAT
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 the Micro shift 10 speed comes with a cassette that si 11-48, not 11-47.. at least the one i rode a few years ago. The cassette was almost positively made by Sunrace as all the cogs are the exact same teeth number and construction and assembled exactly like the Sunrace cassette, , with the exception of the largest cog at 48t instead of the 46t sunrace. BTW, I visited the Taipei Sunrace factory in Taipei in 2019 ( I had an 8 hour layover at the airport and looked them up.. they were only 4 kilometers away from the airport). They were very cordial when I showed up unannounced at the security gate house.The guard called up and they came out, met me, took me inside and showed me their newest products and chatted with me for about forty five minutes. They seemed slightly surprised to hear just how successful I had been racing their 11-46t cassette on my 3 x 10 xc bike.
@@jurekgadzinowski2895 Shimano's Deore XT has the same capacity (RD-T8000-SGS), but it supports up to 36T cassette, because it's designed for a 3x10 drivetrain.
I'm using a Microshift, R9 I think, long cage road RD, with an 11-36 cassette, 50/34 cranks, and mated to Ultegra 10 speed brifters. Almost gives me the range I'm looking for. Wouldn't mind a bit more down lower!
That's an interesting choice. For another option, I just completed a drivetrain using the Shimano RD-M5120 which has a ton of cross compatibility: 10 or 11 speed, a 42T max cog when used in 2x or 46T in 1x, and a 41T capacity that I blew past to 45T and it still works (26/42 in front, 11-42 in rear). There's also a clutch. Costs about the same as that Microshift.
Mainstream ignores this because it's not electronic, and not in top level road/ MTB racing.
I can still get parts for my 3×10 Mtb. The prices I found in a general sports store are: 10x cassette Deore HG50 11-36 €40. Rear shifter + derailleur Deore/SLX S6000 10 speed €25 + €55. Add to that the mentioned 2x crank at €28 plus a 2x shifter. Deore, while middle of the line quality, after 25k of off-roading I've only changed the cassete twice, a few chains, one rear shifter and one crankshaft bearings. I'm not a powerful biker though, prefer higher cadence before power pedalling. My gear range is typical for a 3x10, not as wide as the mentioned one but then one can only go so slowly uphill before falling over or too fast on a non-road bike. I enjoy my small gear jumps though. So, yes, you can get cheap parts to make an all-around usable bicycle. Get a nice frame and go for it.
I put a 1x 10 together recently and cues was actually the cheapest clutch rear derailleur I could find locally. My only concern, the pull ratio. You mention in this and previous videos. If I have a problem somewhere remote with the derailleur... I love in Australia though and must assume the lbs anywhere hopefully have cues in store
You are the to-go channel for the "real rider". This is an interesting find.
What I am looking for is a fairly wide range 8, 9 or max. 10 gear system with one chain ring. I do not mind somewhat wider gear steps, as I am not a racer or mountain climber, or out to optimize cadence under all condition. The hole thing with reasonable durability and a reasonable price.
Pretty cool! ...and a Panorama. I better get mine before they get too popular. Beautiful bikes!
I did a tour here in the Philippines where i jumbled up a mini velo with 20x1.95 tires and a triple crank set 48/34/24 and 11-40 cogset. The idea is that i do not want to push a bike due to my lower back pain. As long i am within walking speed i am good pedaling than pushing. Not sure how to compute the gear ratio but i think mine is way bigger than the cues but the topic is production indexed groupset so mine don't count.
Hey Russ, great and informative content as always, I love to see as Shimano cues Vs Microshift Sword groupset comparison/stand off….thanks for all the content!
I’ve been paying attention to what gears I really need mountain biking and I believe I can get by with only 450%. With a 10-45 SLX 12 speed and a 26t chainring (not common, but I can get them for certain cranks). This gets me 16.8-75.4 gear inches. If I need a lower gear, I get off and push. I don’t need a higher gear as I don’t ride pavement and I don’t like to pedal at high speeds on dirt - coasting is safer.
The new Croix-de-fer base model, with flat bars is 2x Cues
When I seen the title I thought you would talk about forgotten 3x11 Deore drivetrain. 2x CUES looks interesting given the price but I still think 2x GRX mullet can get you roughly same range. You can find more bikes with GRX 2x11 drivetrain.
For the mullet builds, I want to see what can be done with mish mash of parts that use Campy Ekar to make real adventure 2x13 dropbar setup
Thank you, Russ, for the excellent info. I love your videos.
Ei rus, been watching ur reviews bout wide range for a while, it seems good for a daily commute.. Recently, just built mine with crank set 2x (42/28) combined with 11-46t cassette (11spd) & my RD is shimano m-6000 (10spd). And guess what, it works smooth, just got inspired with all of your test combinations. Thanks
Been riding 1x Linkglide XT on my Omnium for around a year and put on 3-4k miles - won't ride anything else in the future. Shifts super smooth and doesn't break.
I run 9 speed Sora and a short cage rear mech. An Alivio 11-36 cassette works (as long as you don't try big ring big cog). The alivio long cage mech I bought could probably squeeze out to 46t.
I wish you brought this out earlier lol 😂 I have been struggling to get my 2x cues system to work on a 11 to 48 cassette. I currently have gear positions that I stay out of because of chain length too short and too long. I am going to give the 8020 a go to hopefully get more gear options with less risk to damaging something. Thanks again for your content.
Another good video. Panorama has great ideas on bikes, A proud Canadian company
I've got a triple chainring on my Pinion box, which runs to my SRAM Eagle 12spd on top of a Rohloff hub. Simple. Reliable.
See what you did there. Back in the day there was a company that offered an extra-small fourth chainring, how about adding that and switching to a 13-speed Campagnolo- or Rotor-setup? It will increase your number of available gears from 3x18x12x14 (9,072) to 4x18x13x14 (13,104)!
Love your not so mainstream content! Do you have any idea where to get 165mm cranksets? Shimano seems to do only 170 and 175mm, except for road groupsets.
Dixna La Crank or Spa Cycles.
AFAIK is CUES only "designed" for hydraulic disc brakes so upcoming brifters probably won't work with rim brakes and mechanical discs. I'm looking forward to more hacks to use the Microsfhit brifters or other solutions like pull-ration-converters or something.
I'm excited to see if you can make it work with brifters! It sounds like the dream setup for me!
Oh wow, I may upgrade my Ozark Trail G.1 Explorer with this. Thanks!
Would love to see if this work with brifters
Can we please please get more info about the Essa derailleur? The ability to use 9 speed brifters with a derailleur that can handle a 11-45t cassette would be AWESOME
Wouldn't it also be interesting to test whether the 1x Microshift Derailleur can be combined with a 2x up front? I'd love you to test it!
Consider the Jtek shiftmate for using brifters. I got the Shiftmate 6 to allow my DiaCompe friction shifter that can do 11spd road to have enough cable pull for the CUES 8020. Pretty sure the 6 is the one you need for 10 or 11 spd shifters. CUES seems to use 1.05 as their pull ratio
Shimano GRX RD handles 11-42 cassette with road pull ratio, so not sure I see this as THAT revolutionary. Would be interesting to see if GRX can handle 11-45.
Never understood why people would opt for a 1x when there is more range available using a 2x (unless it's a city bike or MTB downhill rocket). More range is better, imo!
Thanks for the experimentation and review, great!
Marketing is a powerful tool
Wow thanks so much for sharing this info! Now I'm wondering how this compares to microshift drivetrains 🤔
You should check out the Dutch company that tests all these drivetrains. They finally allowed a reviewing test mechanic to release the information publicly. It's very interesting. SRAM being the slowest and their top spec AXS XO is slower than their cheaper XX. They didn’t want to upset any manufacturers over the years. They do a lot of testing for chains as well for stuff they use that needs to be running perfectly. Shimano XT was the fastest out of Shimano's drivetrains on the dynos and computer graphs, wind tunnels, etc. If I can find it in my history, I'll come back and attach the link to the video. It’s definitely something everyone needs to see.
I suppose you could easily pair up with a low-end MTB triple crankset - but it does require square tapered BB.
A bit less modern. but cheaper and wider range + square tapered BB tend to last long
Pinion owner. This really makes me grumpy 😂
On the drop bar conversion, I looked at the pull ratios and it seems like SRAM mechanical Exact Actuation brifters may work. If you have a right Force or Rival 22 right brifter, that would be cool. Cheers.
Mindblowing ! I had no idea about this
I initially thought Cues (i didnt like the name) was going to be lame so I stand humbly corrected. Finally subcompact cranks on a budget. Awesome Thank you for doing the legwork. (pun intended)
Great stuff. I'd be interested in seeing you cobble together a dropbar setup with this. I recently upgraded from friction shifters to 2×7 LTwoo brifters on my entry-level tourney bike and the improvement in shifting was incredible l. Now im chomping at the bit for the next affordable upgrade
Sounds fantastic! What friction shifters will work with this 2x setup?
Riv silver bar end will work for the front derailleur but you’ll need an Uno shifter or Microshift 12spd in friction.
@@PathLessPedaledTV seems like a good reason for an Uno shifter in bar end configuration!
I am into this! I will join patreon. Thank you for doing this project!
Closer gear ratios allow for more optimal cadence at speed. This is important for training.
This channel isn’t about training.
Hmm. I think I need this. Now what bike do I put it on
That Essa derailleur looks neat, kind of fills the same niche as the Sunrace RDM900 that I think you've looked at before. I've been using the Sunrace on a 9 speed gravel conversion for a bit so waiting to see if it holds up as well as the generally bombproof Shimano stuff
@bikefarmer just installed CUES on his latest bike and touted the huge range. No drop-bar shifters yet though, right?
Do I really need the Cues crankset? They sure look heavy. It seems like a light weight triple MtB crank set using the Granny & middle rings could accomplish the same thing & make a bit more space in my 'junk drawer'.
no.
not only they are heavy, but you can't swap chainrings when those wear out. Or simply find yourself uncomfortable with exact teeth count.
You could also use the Deore 5100 range for cranks, which are pretty cheap and versatile, with exchangable chain rings. No idea about the weight though.
I've got a spare 3x 22/33/44 lying around and am going to build up a road bike with it soon. Will test my 11-42 cassette and see what happens. That's a lot of range but I doubt my current rear mech could take it. I think with enough fiddling, you can probably get most things to work
Damn wish they had this for drop bar aswell, seems like a great deal for gravel to have a nice bailout gearing
I have the linkglide xt on my mountain bike (human powered) and it is the best drivetrain I have ever had. I have two full 12 speed kits in my parts drawer and I can tell you now they will never be used.
Given that you can run 46t on a GRX812 rear derailleur with a stated capacity of 42t (that's the setup I have on my gravel/commuter bike, totally stock without a goat link or any other hacks)I wouldn't be surprised if you could run 50t on a Shimano derailleur with a 45t stated capacity - they seem to be pretty conservative with their specs.
Can anyone explain the math here:
Min: 26:45 = 0,5777
Max: 40:11= 3,6363
Overall gear range is Max:Minx100
-> 3,6363 : 0,5777 = 6,29444 * 100 = 629,44% and not 669% as claimed…
What am I doing wrong?
These videos are a good service. It's kind of like Hot rod bicycling. I figure there are two tiers for cars. There's the expensive Italian sports cars for the rich folks. Then there's a guy with an old Chevy looking for better performance. He uses bolt on parts. I see these videos being more of the latter category.
Yeah, no road shifters... but interesting! I've gone to Microshift sword 1x and I'm loving it! I am wondering if you could hack the sword 1x rear derailler with the 2x front derailleur and still get the 11x48 rear and maybe something like a 40x?? in the front? Or maybe the 2x rear derailleur might work with the 11x48? The default 1x Sword gives me the (low) range I had on my old 2x with the simplicity of a 1x and for me that's what mattered... At the cost of some high gears that were mostly aspirational... but I get wanting more range.
Very cool but 40T chainring and 11T cog is not high enough gear.
What about a 46-30 ‘super compact’ crankset, though?
Much faster than a 32/11 or even 32/10 you get on most standard MTBs at the time.
Thanks!