The Last Of Us Has A Story Problem
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2023
- HBOMax’s "The Last of Us" series just wrapped up its first season, but what’s next for this franchise? Will it continue to be loved by many, or is it destined to split the fan base just as the second game did back in 2020? In this video, I share my thoughts on why I think this franchise could be in some trouble if something doesn’t change soon…
This is my debut in the world of video essays, but there are plenty more in the works! Subscribe if you want to see more content like this!
#thelastofus #thelastofuspart1 #thelastofuspart2 #thelastofuspart3 #thelastofushbo #pedropascal #joel #bellaramsey #ellie #hbomax #playstation - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
The games aside, the reason why they made the TV show was to allow a much larger audience to experience the exceptional story of the first game. Both of my brothers, neither of whom have played the game, have remarked about how amazing a story it is and when I told them that for the most part, it was exactly the same story as the game, they were amazed that a video game could have such a compelling story behind it.
Exactly...👍
I wouldn't say the exact same story.
@@oneyplayes465 hence "for the most part"
@@Phantastically yea "for the most part" because if it was I would have love the show as I did the game hence my comment in the first place.
Beautifully shot and well acted show
though.
@@Phantastically I just reread his comment and saw what you meant. Thanks!
While I get the frustration with the remakes these days, as someone who played TLOU for the first time ever recently, IMO the experience with the remake version is sooo much better than with the remaster.
I really feel like it would have been a shame for this story not to exist in such a high fidelity
That's actually a great point I didn't really consider. The experience of Part I is very different if you've already played the game as opposed to playing it for the first time. Regardless, I definitely don't hate that Part I exists because it's absolutely the best looking version. I think Sony probably pushed to have it made, but it seems clear Naughty Dog took over the project because they wanted to ensure it was done right. Thanks for the response!
Wish they had done more to improve the gameplay. Going back to Part 1 after Part II is rough.
@@ryan-jamison I replayed Last of Us on the Remake in December, loved it just as much played remaster a few years ago on PS4
I still need a part 3 to elies story. one final game that finishes a trilogy. Also, we need a happy ending for once because i think ellie deserves it already.
I totally agree and I think there is a very good chance we're going to see Part III eventually.
They might meme about it but Ellie has been through so much shit she deserves a happy ending
I agree! Part 3 is needed but also the last game in the series there shouldn't be more than that in my opinion
I feel like the ending should be horrible and humane
Her story is done. She left her previous life behind and is leaving to start fresh. There’s no point in continuing that. It ended the same way the first one did and that didn’t need to continue either.
It’s cool that now a lot more people get to see the story of Joel and Ellie
I think there should be a part 3 to completely close Ellie's story off. Maybe they could do a 4th but if they do then it needs to be different
I was expecting this to be a bigger channel until you mentioned it at the end.
Of this is the level of quality displayed in a debut channel (even a genre debut), you've earned a subscriber!
I agree. Great debut video !!
It's the same with game remakes. They milk the franchise hoping to get new fans. But I think for the last of us, the story was so good, it was worth making it into a show. You're on point though. Some just don't need remakes. Great video!
Thank you! I do agree The Last of Us is a story worthy of adaptation, I just can’t help but wonder what else they could’ve done with this opportunity. But we’ll see how season 2 turns out!
It would be interesting to see the hive mind/linked fungus begin to grow in the game. The corpses on the walls that have huge fungal growths somehow create a giant fungal web… which Ellie begins to see & tap into. If the first game was about regaining your humanity, the second game was about losing it, the third should be about gaining something else. She could follow the strongest tendrils and we could see it taking her out of America, maybe even weaponizing her infection & manipulating infected for her gain
Agreed, the universe is rich and interesting ND has to explore those stories and conclude Ellie's. Would be fitting a part 3 is made
I think a nice way to make you feel for Abby in the show would be to make the second season start as if it has nothing to do with Joel and Ellie. Make it look like it is a side story about a little girl who lost her family for unknow reasons (making us relate to her by associating her with Ellie) looking for a place to stay in. She arrives at Jackson after fighting some infected hand-to-hand (we kinda need more of them in the show and it also shows that she has had a rough life since she can handle infected with her bare hands) and after a while let her be sent on patrol. Eventually she gets paired with Joel and, well...
Don't give her a golf club.
This makes her really hateable, no matter how you see this, a slow death by golf club is way more than what Joel realistically deserved (ik vaccine is important, but like, Ellie is still alive, I'm sure some another doctor could do it). Just make her shoot him or something, but don't make an extremelly brutal torture to murder scene with a very much beloved character that we (mostly) agree with.
Just don't do it the way part two did. We knew nothing about her and spent like 12 hours wanting to kill her and NOW we are supposed to care? That was really bad imo
It depends on what emotions the show runners want to evoke. We get Abby’s story only halfway through the game instead of intersected through Ellie’s because they wanted us to initially be on board with Ellie’s anger, only feeling conflicted and empathetic much later on. Giving us Abby’s story muuuuuch earlier would change the experience a lot, and I’m not really sure it’ll be for the better.
Pretty sure any sane person with a brain is not going to "feel for abby" after she kills joel. Her story is irrelevant. When you are presented with a fresh story and given your main characters and made to invest emotions into these characters you can't simply flip the switch and make it so "oh its fine they killed joel because this random new character had a good enough reason" That's not how story telling works.
And if that is your best argument ellie has done more than enough to be killed off too. Why not just introduce another new random character with a reason to kill ellie and remove all the og characters job done 10/10 story right.
Abby is meant to he hated first then be liked
I'm just looking forward to see the tv show go down in flames with Joel's death!!!! Maybe just maybe ND will understand what they did wrong...
@@nunodan3018 wont happen
Bro when you said that this was your first video essay, I did not believed you until I saw your subscriber count. That was a great video! Keep it up
Thank you very much, bro 🙏🏻 I really appreciate it and there is more on the way!
Stellar work! Keep it up :)
And Subbed
as much as I want part 3, I honestly have no clue what I would even want it to be about. I hear everyone's ideas for it and to almost all of them I think "no that would be stupid". I just think it'd be really hard to make another story revolving around Ellie and Abby, and have an upgraded gameplay system compared to the first 2.
I look forward to your future content you’ve inspired me to do a follow up on my last of us 2 short. Thanks for the awesome vid!
brilliant video! smoothly edited, well-written and voiced in an entertaining and intelligent way. hope to see more from you soon!
Thank you so much! This means a lot coming from someone with such a strong catalog of content! I’m definitely taking notes…
@@ryan-jamison no worries haha! i myself am also trying to get into commentary / essay content and am constantly looking for content to inspire and help shape my work. definitely been taking notes myself 😜
The hardest part is honestly just being comfortable in front of the mic and making yourself sound natural. But with your editing skills I think you could do some great stuff! I’ll keep an eye out 👀
@@ryan-jamison that i can do :) thank you so much man ❤️
I expected this channel to have hundreds of thousands of subscribers! You deserve the love ❤️ I’ve subbed!
Hey, that’s the goal 👀
Thank you so much, Samuel!
When you compare Part 1 with the PS3 and even the remaster (Which is basically just the PS3) it's pretty clear that the game needed a fidelity upgrade. While the original TLOu was great, it's pretty rough in some areas. I do agree we need a new story. I'm very excited about the multiplayer game which is apparently supposed to feature a new story... with co-op nonetheless!
I have a lot of hope for the new factions because the original was amazing
I would like Part III to be about finding a safe haven. Something like in the Maze Runner Movies (sorry, I haven't read the books yet) where the characters go through so much and some people we like are lost during the long journey but in the end they find safety on an island. In TLoU III, we could maybe go through the process of evacuating Jackson after the city is threatened of being overrun by infected or the WLF. Ellie could lead the operation and the final goal could be to somehow reach Hawaii, where it could be very likely that civilization still exists as we know it. Of course, I don't know what would be done with Abby. Maybe she tries to sabotage the operation or something else happens, who knows.
People displeased with the shows story being the main story of the game. People displeased with any changes or deviations between the story and the game. People displeased with the events of the second game. The story is what the story is. It was conceptualized, written, made and it exists as is. Like it or not. Play it or skip it. Watch it or don't. If anyone expects this show to be anything but an "adapted for tv" version of the story of The Last of US, I'm sure in time you'll find something to be displeased about. To me, having the show tops not having the show, plain and simple.
What you've basically said is "Something something, nobody likes things 100%." I wish I had a dollar for every person automatically dismissing actual criticisms of the TV portrayals of Joel and Ellie and the actual debate on whether or not the TLOU adaptation is necessary. It clearly wasn't for the Witcher because of how they fucked up the story, and this show is divisive for a lot of legitimate reasons like how they try to make Joel look like the bad guy by revealing that the Fireflies somehow knew exactly how to extract the cure from Ellie, which undermines what the game tried to achieve with its ambiguity to the possibility of the cure. For me, it doesn't earn anything.
Well said.
@Tello Serif nothing here was actually said. He basically said that we should turn our brains off. Great fucking speech, let's throw a fucking party.
Well said
People really displeased with Part 2
Disney Star Wars has proven the peril of dividing your paying customer base. Star Wars went from the greatest movie franchise of all time with one of the most devout fan bases to being pretty much a dead IP at this point. There are plenty of videos out there made in the past 10 years that detail why. TLOU 2 was the franchise's version of The Last Jedi. TLOU 2 sold about 7 million copies. That's pretty good for any other game. The problem is that TLOU sold 13 million. No one is green lighting a sequel expecting to see it do worse especially significantly worse. No company is going to invest millions of dollars for some want-to-be auteur to do his art project. They expect a healthy return on investment. If TLOU 3 is just as divisive as TLOU 2, that's likely the end of the IP. I think it's more than fair to say that people have had enough of the nihilism that both games and movies insist on dishing out the past ten years plus.
Not counting the remaster/remake, TLOU 2 (10 million copies) has already significantly outsold TLOU (7 million copies) in a shorter timeframe. Its appreciation among the fanbase has only grown since release, not shrunk. And Star Wars is a dead IP? Really? The multiple TV shows/video games that come out each year, all of which are quite popular, aren't enough for you?
awesome commentary man. keep it up!
Thank you! I’m on it!
EXCELLENT video. Easy subscribe
Hey new viewer and long question, you mentioned how playing as Abby was so effective as the visceral feeling of playing as the "Villain" was so engrossing and helped the message of the game.
Can the same not work for a TV show?
I remember many revenge shows and movies where I was put in the perspective of the other character and I hated it at first but grew to love them as I was asked to interpret and understand their story.
With tlou2 however I thought the opposite where I didn't want to act out the actions of Abby or Ellie which is where it lost me as it felt like there was a definite path it wanted me to take with specific message to tell rather than to give me space as an observer to understand their actions.
So overall what I'm trying to say is could the TV show with it's strength as a show work just as well if not better in some areas that the game was limited (like the mid point perspective change being more of a gameplay reason for resetting skill trees instead of a constantly switching perspectives between the two)?
This is a great point, and I actually agree with you here. In the essay, I might’ve overlooked how well they could characterize Abby in the show. I’ve been watching through TWD recently and they tell a similar revenge story that ultimately ends in forgiveness, and it works better than I expected. I think my example of fighting Ellie as Abby might not have helped my argument. Personally, I ended up kind of liking Abby by the end of the game and that was because of the small moments with her and Lev and just getting to learn more about her character. I only mentioned the fight scene because it was an emotionally difficult moment to play through. I do think the show has a chance at better portraying Abby in a way that she’s more likable right off the bat. I think it hinges on if they change the structure or not.
@@ryan-jamison yeah I suppose so, Though Druckman says he won't be changing a thing about 2s story hope he makes some structural changes so we can better emphathise with the characters more
Because the writer/creator cares to tell the story he wants to tell, not cash on popularity. They did part 2 bc they wanted to tell the story and he's said he won't do a 3 part if there's not a story he wants to tell. Respect.
The most terrible thing could ever happen to the game is a prequel for Tommy and Joel they both have plot armor and it's not adding anything at all what I'd love to see is what did Tommy do in part 2
The show is good for people that don't play games. They can experience the story we all did when we played the game
I'm only about a minute-thirty into your video and I think I know exactly where you're going to go. I had a similar idea when I was streaming/playing TLoU2 for the first time recently. Treat TLoU more as a Twilight Zone-esque anthology series. Joel and Ellie's story should have ended with Part 1. We didn't need Part 2. Instead, they should have told different stories of different people throughout the world. A "Tales of the Apocalypse" sort of setting. It would have allowed for much better world building, and they could have told the WLF vs. Seraphites story without being bogged down by the contrived revenge plot Druckmann was obsessed with.
Edit: I guess that's not where you were going.
We need a part 3, make it a ps6 exclusive and a launch title so that people will easily buy it, easy bucks.
Hello, I really liked your video, the truth is that I've only seen the show, and I loved it, but just seeing some of the gameplay, I'm sure that the lack of infected is the missing ingredient, the action scenes that they would introduce, Joel and Eli's interactions in the middle of an attack, to see the magnitude of the threat in action and not mostly its traces and most importantly, the weight of Joel's decision.
In the series the world has fallen, but the society is rising again, the threat of the virus is minimal compared to the game (including that it spreads through the air). Watching the series, it seemed to me that Eli's sacrifice would be more than anything a strategic advantage for the fireflies, being the only ones with a cure. In the games it seems that she is seriously humanity's last hope.
I think you are exactly correct. The show removed the airborne fungal aspect because it meant they could keep their actors out of gas masks, but it makes it seem like the threat is much less dire for people in relatively well defended quarantine zones. This results in the desperation to find a cure should be significantly less than in the game version, which means the actions of the fireflies at the end are even more unethical than they were in the game version.
The game also portrayed Ellie being a cure that would work as much less of a certainty.
I've never heard anyone pronounce "divisive" like that before.
great video, bro! keep doing it!👌👍
Thanks for watching! I appreciate it!
Great video !
Thank you!
Great Video man
They should have made the series within the universe of TLOU, we all love part I but we also know that this comparisons between show and game could divide the fan base even more. If they have given a new blood to the franchise with new characters and new perspectives, would add to the history as a whole.
I don’t think the show will keep its popularity once they kill off Pedro Pascal’s character.
I definitely do not want to a see a prequel where Joel, Tess and Tommy are full-on pretending to need help, only to then murder travelers kind and naive enough to offer aid. It's one thing to know Joel was a murderer of innocent men, women, whole families, just to rob them, but it's another thing to see it. Just like when the mycologist recommends bombing all 9 million people in Jakarta, we "know" that she is calling for the deaths of millions of innocent children (among others) for the greater good...but when confronted with the death of Ellie, a character we know, that single death has a far different impact on us than a million or so "Ellies" being killed in Jakarta.
That’s a great counterpoint.
I wonder how did those events really happened though, because as much as the story is telling us they were bad people that murdered innocents... The 3 of them don't seem like the kind to do this out of pure evilness.
I believe that backstory is more gray than black... I figure they attempted robbing people and someone had a hidden gun so they had to fire back, or they took out the supplies from someone only to later found they died of starvation or someone in their group murdered these people making them complicit for benefiting from those crimes.
And just to be clear, I'm not trying to justify or condone their actions, they would still be guilty. I'm just trying to picture how those evil deeds may have occurred in a way that would still make sense for their characters.
@@DiegoLopez-ft5wd I do think it is clear that Joel set traps similar top what the hunters did, as he says so as hous expansion for how he knew ir was a traps. That he has "been on both sides" means he has seen it before used against hist him, and used it against others. And the nature of that trap is that you pretend to need help to lure people in. *Some* of those people may be lured in because they want to rob an easy, weakened, mark. But the reference to killing innocent people in that same conversation strongly suggests some people who were generously trying to help were killed for that kindness.
And we learn thisxwhile still learning about Joel. So I don't think we're supposed reject the implication that he did this. I think we are supposed to him as a different man at the end of the game than he was at the start... but that this is who he was at the start: a killer who prioritizes his and his "family" and their survival over strangers, even kind strangers trying to help him.
I absolutely see him tuning out any moral qualms he might have had before Sarah died. He wanted peoples supplies and he didnt want them looking for revenge, and leaving no survivors is the easy way to ensure that.
I took that as part of his staring point for the character arc he goes through. There is some irony in that I think he winds up being one of those generous sorts who helps people in time. (Which also seems to be how Dr. Anderson may have been.)
To each his own, though.
@@Pandaemoni Yup, that's all true, I'm not denying they killed or took part in the death of innocent people, since the game very clearly tells us this.
I just wonder, how many people, for how long, and under what specific circumstances? And since the game only has some lines of dialogue and is clear Joel doesn't feel much guilt, he just says to Ellie: Take it however you want or to Tommy that they were survivors. He is not proud but he is not ashamed or very regretful of it either.
In my mind they surely were robbers but not intentionally seek to murder, it was more that their actions unintentionally caused the death of innocents. That makes more sense to me for a man who also said "bad things happen and we move on" he avoids feeling guilty because he didn't intentionally seek blood, but rather the ambush or the robbery went wrong and they had to do what they had to do.
"It gives Bella Ramsey time to age up into older Ellie."
Bella Ramsey is 19. So... what do you mean?
Exactly...just needs a new hairstyle...😁
I love the show man the games i do agree it could of been different but i think they where testing the water
I don’t think TLOU2 was necessary but due to the events of that game Part 3 is absolutely necessary
Agreed. No going back now.
Eh not really it’s just beating an already dead franchise to try to get extra money out of it.
The whole TLOU story is written to make you feel sad and horrible, anything nice in the story gets ripped away to break your heart, any moment that you're waiting for to happen almost always gets robbed from you at the last moment (like the obvious, Ellies forgiveness). I HIGHLY doubt that IF they do a 3rd game that they'll do any fan service/happy ending. It's probably going to leave you feeling as sad and empty as the last game did haha
I don’t necessarily think there will be a “happy” ending in the potential third game. I think there are ways to end this story on a hopeful note without it feeling like a fairytale (like maybe Ellie sacrificing herself for the cure or something). But I guess we’ll just have to wait and see 🤔
They did fan service throughout LOU2 so yes they'll do fan service but pure happiness is not the way of the game they could do bitter sweet at most it's reality vs expectations the characters may expect happiness as an ending but the reality will be bittersweet or not perfect in someway.
Part 1 had a better balance though, of hope and togetherness. Which stacked up quite nicely with the harsh realities. Part 2 was just a relentless depressing slog.
The fundamental problem with Part 2 is the The Last of Us IS about Joel AND Ellie, NOT ONE OR THE OTHER! To kill that relationship is killing the heart that made people fall deeply in love with it in the first place. Once that relationship is destroyed, what's the point?
Season 2 should just be a chance to start a new story set in the same world. An anthology series like Fargo Perhaps makes hints at past stories, but just them separate.
You kill Jeol. You're going to kill Ellie, too.
( unless Jeol dies at the end of the story like Logan, where he sacrifices himself for Ellie, but it's at the end of the story.)
Like what Jesse said in Breaking Bad about Walter to Gus.
Possible fun suggestion, but what if Jeol was immune? Call me crazy but I just I'd add that see what anyone thinks?
No, it's about Ellie, has always been about Ellie.
7:12 can i buy the last of us: left behind on sell for free on playstation 4?????????
wdym? The show made some really good changes from the game
Cripes!!! There is NOTHING about the Part 2 storyline that requires Joel and Ellie to still maintain their five year long deterioration of their relationship. Joel and Ellie could have bit by bit revealed and discussed what was behind Joel saving Ellie. AND that would have allowed Joel to reveal his strong feelings toward Ellie, and she to understand the powerful feelings that made Joel save her.
Part 2 doesn't require Ellie to hate Joel.
As someone with writing and literature background, I'm a pretty harsh critique on writing. I haven't played the games, but could cut some slack there, especially if they're staying pretty true to the games. I love the show and story, but some of the clunky writing erked me a lot initially. Then diving into the game lore to see what's next, I'm kind of horrified if they keep true to the game for second season. They're going to unleash the division the game had in the fan base into the general public for the TV show and effectively kill the show along with Joel. While it could still be a good show and true to the game and all that, if they stick to the game's main elements, they're just going to repeat history in the form of the TV show instead, no chance to undo mistakes or patch holes etc. Also, as you noted, there is an immense and rich world building opportunity completely thrown away with staying too true to the game. I wanted more Indonesia and other places; I wanted the 20 year gap filled. If HBO sticks to the 2nd episode of the game for season 2, it's going to be one of the biggest TV show disasters of all time. You can't force protagonist deaths into audience's and then immediately force relating with the antagonist as the new protagonist, it doesn't matter how realistic or edgy and new it is, it jolts audience's off the horse and they tend not to get back on. So there's a quarter billion dollar trainwreck on the way.
I'm glad they stuck to the game story line in the first season, not that I'm not open to new ideas, it's just I don't trust them to come up with a better one. I agree there will be a big problem with adapting TLOU2, people who haven't played the game have no idea what they're in for. Also, Bella Ramsay will struggle to be convincing as an older Ellie that becomes a killing machine like Joel is in the first game. Will they even portray the slaughter in TLOU2? I can't wait for the Abby hate if the story pans out like the game :).
Bella is gonna crush it as an older ellie
YES EXACTLY, they should explore the world of TLOU, there is a lot to tell about the world in TLOU
I personally like part 1 and 2 felt these where masterpieces but both in there on way
I agree
118th subscriber 😈
This might be a little far-fetched but I think that the Factions game will be more than just factions.
If i was a showrunner, I'd make season 2 different from the game, so those who liked chapter 2 could see and like the new approach, but also those who were infuriated with second game could like it more than what they did in the game
All people do these days is cry and bitch. The more you give them the more they complain.
January 2025 will see the release of The Last of Us Part 1 Re-re-remastered-ered which will add the shows version of Bill and Frank's excellent adventure
Post-Zombie Apocalypses are very annoying stories to make, they use zombies and societal collapse as a gimmick, and they need the prospect of a "cure" to theoretically be possible to make the world building have tension. This is done via Elie, and given much more dramatic effect to Joel's choice to rescue her. (regarding the part where you mentioned a new story instead of rehashing the game) Also, HBO is using Pedro Pascal + child character trope as a gimmick to steal viewers from the Mandalorian fanbase, when Pedro is killed off, good luck to Bella Ramsey and Abby managing to keep the show entertaining.
Hey man
Us star fox fans are still waiting for another game that isn’t a retelling of the original star fox game
So does real life 😢
Season 2 on HBO should start with Abby and her Dad rescuing the Zebra from the barbed wire. Then Marlene telling Abby's Dad that they have a possible vaccine. Cut to the opening credits.
Yeah they def need to do a part 3. I do not want to see Abby at all in that, I think the whole point of her was to see a new perspective to revenge and vengeance but I still came back not liking her either way, not just because she killed Joel but besides that she was an awful person in every aspect besides helping Lev and Yara, and even the she said she did that for herself and not them. As much as I would like to see a Joel and Tommy past perspective I think they need to wrap up what happens to Ellie and give her a good ending. They have so much more room! They could add a Dina and Ellie reconciliation, they could focus more on Tommy and his wife Maria (she seems so badass and it would be cool to play as her if they give more info about her!) maybe they have a baby who’s a badass and maybe their baby is friends with a grown up JJ? Honestly so much room to grow with the characters they already have just please don’t make me look at Abby again!!
Bella Ramsey is the same age as Part 2 Ellie, I think.
She’s actually gonna be older than Ellie by the time they start filming
i agree so much i feel like we deserve a story that has completely different characters it would be so interesting
If the show had drifted away from the original story or told a different story altogether it woudn't had the success it did. There are many people that never played The Last Of Us or know its story so the show allowed for a much larger audience.
Literally could’ve just done an anthology series with episodes focusing on each of the notes and shit that we find in both games. Easy.
You just said do something new and you return to Joel for a Texas holdup! No that's a bad idea. ND wanted to make a new IP that's what Abby is the new person. Fans fought ND to keep elle & joel and I agree with that & liked that ND compromised introducing abby so TLOU3 will be abby & lev the new property.
Ellie doesn't even need to get involved again but since I see alot of people wanting an ending to her already ended property they'll probably keep her in but I don't think she's needed beyond PTSD flashbacks to harm abby to do better in her new life as she continues her redemption arch.
Abby started game 2 as survival joel she made it halfway into daddy joel so in 3 she should continue being in dad joel role and then becoming cross roads joel and we'll see does she make a similar horrendous fuckup like he did or not.
They should make an alternate part 2 where Joel lives and has another adventure with Ellie and they can expand on the world more, as laughable as it is with how much people didn’t like part 2 it could work
Istg the next last of us game IS gonna be a "The last of us part II.....part 2.....except Ellie does her best Danny DeVito impression when she opens the door"
Do we really need a want new franchise tho? When are a brand new IP coming from Naughty Dog?
i absolutely pity the actress who takes the monumental burden of playing abby, she's going to endure so much bs
The problem is Druckmann didn't have an overarching story mapped out. He made Part1 as (pretty much) a standalone tale about Joel & Ellie and then towards the very end of development sat down and started playing with ideas of what to do next.
He wasn't even sure if he was going to continue with Ellie's story, maybe treat it as a series of different tales set in the world. But no, he decides to plump for Joel getting killed early on and I always felt that lead the story down a dead end. Also, for the TV show (which is all about Pascal & Ramsey's chemistry for non-gamers), god knows how that is going to be received by viewers next season. Could end up being a bit of a disaster.
Part2 just ended up being a narratively flat, depressing, predictable revenge-story after Joel's death, regardless of how well-made it was. And the endless flashback scenes started to become a problem. I never once bothered to replay it, unlike the original game with its wonderful narrative.
He should have started a new story in that world. Or sent Joel & Ellie down a truly dynamic narrative that involved them leaving Jackson for good and tackling surprising new elements regarding the infected (and Ellie's relationship to them).
I think I can explain all of your question . 1# after the incredibly controversial release of the 2nd game and a divided fanbase it would make 0 monetary sense to stray away to a story gamers were not already attached to. Many in the fanbase don't care about Naughty dog and hate neil druckimen. HBO wanted proven popularity and so the showrunners gave them what made sense well making major changes to certain episodes which in my opinion improved the narrative significantly for a game that did very little to flesh out the world in the original. #2 Why no new games to continue the story/start a new story. This question seemed especially confusing the 2nd game came out a mere 3 years ago how fast do you think the turn around is for some of the highest budget naughty dog titles to ever be put out? Because the turn around from game 1 to game 2 was 7 years. As for why 3 versions of the title exist that's even easier. The last of us titles are flagship ps exclusives that Sony promotes to sell consoles the remaster was to sell ps4s. and the Remake to sell ps5s with the added element of launching the game to PC shortly after the completion of the show not only to promote ps5 with the early release there but then also rake in buyers who are learning about the tlou (HBOs 2nd biggest show at current) and want to buy a copy of the game for the first time ever. Which in my personal opinion is one of the best looking games graphically I have ever seen. (Though I totally agree should not have been 70$) A 3rd game if its in the works at all may very well take another 7 years and they cant risk making a game if they don't even have a solid fanbase if anything making the show adaptation was a stroke of genius restarting the Last of Us craze for new and old fans alike well showing them the mostly widely liked part of the series. This may actually go a long way to reviving the torn fanbase as well as adding many more well creating hype/potential for future tlou projects which they would much more easily be able to pursue if bolstered by the show.
These are all great arguments and my goal with the video was just to point out the potential issues they may face if they continue moving in this direction. What good will any of this fanbase mending do if the second season receives the same general reaction as the second game? Before Part II, I doubt people believed there could be so much anger and hate targeted at this franchise with how great the first game was, but that’s exactly what happened. I’m not sure the show will be any different.
@@ryan-jamison The only way to not lose viewers is to change the second part's plot, like, a lot. Maybe postponing Joel's death or changing the way he dies. However it goes they should get ready for a shitstorm.
I love The Last of Us!!!
Cause druckman killed off Joel. Who would do that?
Joel survived clickers abd bloaters but didn't survive Abby 💀
I really enjoyed The Last of Us part ll… Clearly, I hated the beginning of the story, but the character development for Ellie and Abby was incredible. From the beginning to the end, there's so much growth for the two characters, and you start to see that Ellie and Abby aren't so different… They are fighting for the things they love. The game does a great job of making the player emphasize with Abby that towards the end you feel conflicted, which is great storytelling. I'm excited for what they have in store for Ellie in the next game! (hopefully a happy ending!!!)
Yeah. I agree with this video.
That TV show "Game of Thrones" lost nearly all of its audience when it killed Ned Stark. Then it lost the rest of the audience when Rob and his mother and wife were killed.
You just can't kill main characters and keep an audience.
100% agree with you. Especially when there is a substantial portion of people watching this show exclusively for Pedro Pascal. The show runners definitely have a challenge ahead of them…
@@ryan-jamison I was being sarcastic...
Killing main characters in GoT did not cause the show to lose viewers.
@@davejohncole I’ve never watched G.O.T so that makes sense. Regardless, I wasn’t focused on a drop in viewership as much as a potential division of the fanbase, which G.O.T DID do in its final season.
@@ryan-jamison but not for any of the reasons you talk about in your video.
@@ryan-jamison That's exactly the point. Will people keep on watching once Pedro Pascal won't be in it anymore? This is atv show not a videogame. ND already confirmed that they'll stick to the plot so as you said, quite a challenge for HBO. They did a big mistake with the last 2 seasons of GOT and lost a lot of subscribers, let's hope they learned their lesson.
Nah, I can't the TLOU II slander
Omg that uncharted movie was a mess. I hope they can remake it into a HBO series like tlou. The movie didn't do the game any justice imo. It felt like watching a cheesy tom cruise Action Film
Part 2 was just a mess that ruined everything because it tried to do so much that it kinda failed in everyway, I think that Part 2 should have been a game about Abby, and only Abby, with the plot twist at the end being that she finds out about Joel and where he is, maybe not even Part 2 but just an in between game before Part 2,
Naughty Dog's game design isn't build for a very long game, its going to be a drag when you really start to notice the whole game is "See that in the distance? We have to go there" "Oh no now we have to walk around" loop constantly, so it really hurt the game and pacing at the point where you switch to Abbey. It should have been a separate thing but I guess they are too afraid to release anything "Last of us" without Joel & Ellie, (or Ellie at least)
You are asking for trouble If you choose to not go with the script. Look at every video game movie and shows. Remember the Halo show was a thing.
What?
People are butt hurt about Joel. Let it go! Turning it into a prequel just to bring Joel back would suck.
Why a fresh story when all the non-gamers haven't experienced the first one? 😖 It's a TV ADAPTION of the game. The slight differences are not inconsequential....it's a different medium. Personally I am just relieved that they didn't mess it up! (Hello Witcher 3.....! 😕) I think series 2 will go in a slightly different direction.....and then series 3? 👍
Oh no, this is a terrible take. I hate when studios take an existing IP and then tell a "new story". The Last of Us show was great. Leave it at that. Can they tell new stories after Part II? Sure. But saying they never should have taken the safe route for the initial story when it was so hard to do and they managed to nail it is nonsense.
Last of Us will always be a poor man's Cormac McCarthy story. A lesser version of The Road.
People keep saying part 2 is bad...
But how could season 2 be worse than season 1?
It's hard to believe that they're wanting to use this to get non gamers interested in the franchise.
My decision after watching this is I will never watch another game adaptation. Video games have crappy stories
Bad quality bait.
the story is perfect as it is, its a story of revenge and forgiveness, of love and hate, of a certain trauma and the aftermath of it and anybody with media literacy will see why its NECESSARY and IMPORTANT and FUNDAMENTAL that Joel's death is a thing in the show just as it was in the game(there s no game 2 without joel s death and there s no goin forward with the show without making this happen)unlike YOU and your friendsies who have NO media literacy . Ellie is the protagonist of the TLOU franchise, she has always been ever since minute 1 of game 1 , even before appearing; Joel is the accompanyin characer not the other way around. You wanna see a Pedro character alive? watch the effing mandalorian , mando is very much alive there; we're not gonna ruin the entire second game's plot in adaptation simply because you all hate Bella for no reason and don't want them to have the spotlight.
All of this! These people can't enjoy anything if the violent dude is not the star of the show. This story is about a girl who didn't ask for any of the shit that happened to her& how she deals with it. Both parts are, and it's beautiful.
I think Part II was pretty amazing and the criticism it got was largely undeserved. Part I is a really solid story, but it's a bit simplistic when you analyze it. Joel needs to deliver Ellie to the Fireflies. That's it. Obviously the characters are great and the evolving father-daughter relationship between Joel and Ellie is very compelling, but I don't think Part II would work if it just offered more of the same. What did people expect? They wanted to see yet another journey through the country where Joel and Ellie kill the bad guys together and then live happily ever after? I thought it was very clear from the very start that TLOU isn't that kind of story. This isn't Uncharted where the main protagonist is a daring action hero who saves the day 4 times in a row. TLOU is supposed to be set in a dark, realistic and gritty post-apocalyptic world. It's brutal, it's shocking and it's grounded.
Joel played his part and it was a wise move to kill him off. He lowered his guard, became softer and got killed. And it's not like he didn't deserve it. People love to idolize Joel and Ellie but it all boils down to familiarity bias. The only reason we like Joel and Ellie is because they were the protagonists of the first game and we got to spend a lot of time with them. What makes Part II so clever is that it deconstructs this baseless assumption that there is such a thing as "the main hero". In the world of TLOU, there are no protagonists and there are no heroes. Joel even mentioned in Part I that he was "on both sides". In someone else's story he was the "bad hunter guy who kills innocents". Joel was selfish and he mercilessly murdered dozens of people in that hospital at the end of Part I, just because Ellie started to fill the role of his late daughter. So when Abby kills him in Part 2, it makes perfect sense in the context of this world. Joel would have done the exact same thing if someone hurt Ellie or his brother.
IMO TLOU2 is not a story of revenge, despite what people might believe. I think it's a story about perspective. This game had the balls to show us that in the real post-apocalyptic world there are no heroes and there are no villains. There are just survivors. Everyone is a hero in their own story and can be a villain in someone else's. This is the true brilliance of this plot. When you play as Abby, you see that she's not evil at all. She's just another survivor who cares about her friends and her family. Joel and Ellie happened to be villains in her story just like David happened to be a villain in Ellie's story.
When you compare both games, Part II is way more expansive, it features more environments, it has way more characters, it's darker in tone and it perfectly captures the brutality of a post-apocalyptic world it's set in. It also feels more cinematic and less videogamey. I think most people simply didn't understand the message the game was trying to convey. Joel and Ellie aren't special! There are countless other people in this world. If the first game was all about Abby and we saw the story from her perspective from the very beginning, people would now be hating on Joel and Ellie for being complete psychopaths who kill random people and think they can get away with it. Gamers need to grow up and be able to separate a good story from a particular character they like. When people watched Game of Thrones, they appreciated it when the show had the balls to kill off major characters they liked because it raised the stakes and made everything more believable. But when a game kills off a character they like, suddenly everyone is raising their pitchfork. Even if you think Abby is the villain, that's not a reason to hate her as a character. Joffrey from Game of Thrones was extremely evil and yet every scene he was in was captivating.
This is a beautifully articulated argument with some fantastic counterpoints.
In this video, I attempted to not outright hate on Part II because I acknowledge it’s strengths. For a while, I’ve just been uncertain if the way they took the story was truly the best move for the franchise; however, after making this video I’ve thought about it a lot more. I’ve had time to marinate with the story and themes of both games. I do feel the story in Part II was bold and absolutely necessary for the arcs setup in Part I.
It’s honestly pretty eerie you commented this now because literally earlier today I began outlining a potential video essay I’d like to make on this very topic, and many of the points I have are similar to what you’ve written here. I absolutely think there is more to this game than blatant haters will give it credit for. I 100% agree with you about the perspectives given in Part II.
Thank you for taking the time to write a very thoughtful comment. This only further convinces me to really revisit Part II again from a different perspective.
@@ryan-jamison It was a good video, by the way. I agree that the show could have taken a different direction. In my opinion, the best moments were the new scenes that added new material, not the adaptations of the scenes from the game. Cuz sure, the game has some great scenes but I've already seen them + the show can't ever top them, regardless of how much Pedro Pascal might try.
I really liked that the first episode took more time to explore the day of the outbreak, I liked the 1960s interview that foreshadowed the disease and I liked that cold open from Episode 2 set in Indonesia. I also appreciate Episode 3 for being so touching and taking a different direction than the game.
I agree with most of the things you said. I think the show would have been more interesting if it didn't try to adapt the game and instead tried to expand on it. They could have started with the outbreak day and then shown a bit of Joel's life after that instead of skipping 20 years like the game does. After Episode 3, the show just defaulted to game adaptation, except it skipped over a lot of great moments from the game, it made everything feel smaller and it deleted a lot of badass action scenes, especially with the infected. It was a good season overall but it's mostly due to the fact the source material is amazing, so it was hard to screw it up. I wish we had more deviations from the game and more additions.
P.S. You should definitely make a video on Part 2. I think it's one of the best video games of the generation and it was criminally overhated. Sure, it's not perfect and it suffers from a few legitimate issues like uneven pacing or slightly outdated level design, but it's definitely a powerful experience. TLOU2 does what very few games manage to do - it makes you FEEL real emotions! You feel SADNESS when Joel dies. You feel ANGER and THIRST for revenge with Ellie. You feel FEAR as the enemies overwhelm you. It's a rollercoaster of emotions. It's brutal, visceral, dark, gut-wrenching and realistic. Plus the gameplay is absolutely stunning. I think TLOU2 might have literally the best animations and the most realistic gore I've ever seen in a game. When you stab people in the throat or blow their legs off, you can almost FEEL their pain. It's really remarkable.
But most importantly, the story is much more than people think. I've seen so many critics who say it's just a boring "revenge story". It's not! Revenge is one of the themes but the story is way more nuanced than that. It's about perspective, trauma, human nature, the cycle of violence, forgiveness and acceptance. When the game came out, I watched literally every major critique and I was so surprised that all people got from the game is "revenge bad". Barely anyone even talked about how Ellie is literally traumatized in this game and acts violently because she can't deal with her guilt.
I think Ellie has to die in the 3rd game. The main objective of The Last of Us is to produce a cure. If that plan is deviated from, might as well turn this into The Walking Dead. A story where man is the grestest threst not the monsters
Folks who have played the game, it’s easy for them to think that everyone they pass on the street each day has played it as well - but honestly, gamers are a small part of the population, and it’s even less when you consider they had to have a specific console. Yeah, those folks have seen the story, but obviously (based on ratings/viewership) it wasn’t a failed experiment - opening it up so anyone could see.
You say it should have been a different story, while not mentioning how many videos have been made where fans are going on and on about their unhappiness with any changes in the show versus the game.
You also have ignored (or not seen) that Neil has stated that the show is going to go a different way than the second game did. He didn’t say how different, or in what ways, but your claim that we’re just gonna do the same thing and retreading old ground in season two just isn’t accurate.
Good luck with your channel… I hope that you don’t just focus on negative things… there’s already plenty of that out here.
And you can’t talk about how it divides the fan base when you’re making assumptions that you’ve based this video on, and attacked the show - further dividing the fan base. Good vid production though… gj 😏
I think when it comes to financial success. They will be perfectly fine. It's only a small group of fanboys that might get their panties in a twist. The show was awesome, Full Stop.
The series was boring. Tlou 1 has an amazing story *for a game!* It did not translate to a series very well. Because for a series the characters are very flat. If you want to translate any of the last of us to film it should go way more in depth on how the characters come to act the way they act. Also there was very little humor. It took itself way to serieus for what is essential a very flat zombie survivor story. Black sommer for instance did it way better. The characters have different motivations, the action feels more intens and the dialogue is actually funny. Unpopular oppinion. The last of us two had a better story than the last of us 1. Even the moments with Joel and Ellie (looking at the museum) where way more personal and intimate than in the first one. The gameplay of part two was also miles ahead of part one but even people who hate the last of us 2 agree on that. I'm was honestly so bored watching the show I only halfway watched the later episodes. Maybe in part because I already knew how it was going to end. But also because it felt very pretencious how much praise it got. Like it really wasn't that good. Again for a game the first last of us at the time was groundbreaking. The second one is even better in every way if you ask me. But if you translate it to film you need to do more with the characters. Every scene i was watching I wished I could pick up the controller and chance some of the weaker more boring moments. It felt like an unscippable cut scene. But I gues that's just me maybe. Still feel strongly about how dull it all was. And the weird thing is, thy had a great budget, amazing actors, so the problem is deffinitly the writing. Looking at Neil Druckmann. The man hasn't lived at all. And you can tell just by watching the show how autistic that felt. Nothing against authistic people but what I mean to say is a lot of what is human interaction was tottaly missing. Even the love story between Bill and his man. Seemed awfully flat. Like no real fights, no real passion. Just a dry ass story. Sorry, I can not in good faith reccomend the show. But I am happy to know I'm not the only one who games and has been outside. Cause of all the praise it got I got terrified that this is the level were at now. anyways that's my two cents.
Yeah it does have a story problem… it’s called Part II
Listen we all hate the last of us part 2 for good reasons but they are absolutely going to copy the story for the show. They will kill off joel because they want to promote strong female characters. They want ellie to be the only character of focus and abbey will be race swapped to being black so we have two strong females going against each other.
Last of us part 2 was hated for the story but that type of story is exactly what hbo gets off on. Kill the white male and have a battle vs two strong females who both control their respective sides are you kidding me that is like drugs to hbo lol. So yes while they do have a chance to redeem the franchise by erasing joels death and everything from pt 2 I can say easily 100% they will follow it very very closely. Joel was the carry on the first game and he carried the show too. The second they kill him off early in part 2 the show is done.
Never trust people to learn from mistakes in media. You think "ok they heard everyone hated part 2 they will change" in reality "they heard people thought part 2 could of been done better so they will keep the story 99% the same and race swap and gender pretence swap some characters to "fit the story better"
I like this video man. I've noticed a lot of changes from the game, plot changes, and some divercity which is pretty cool, but for me, part 2 of the game felt like ND trying to force woke agenda, since world was in that place, where tv shows and movies were forcing woke stuff in bad written stories, and every time you say something, you get called bigot, or transphobic, or homophobic. exemples are Captain Marvel and Batwoman, if anyone raises a valid point of the story being bad, and some unimportant real world problems being forced, they got calle bigot. This is problem with TLOU and Neil druckman, They could have made it much better, and lets hope they do, without forcing these over the edge trash stories and calling it masterpiece JUST because they are woke. I mean you have Lesbian couple, who have a baby, whos father just perfectly die so they can be Lesbian couple with a baby, then you have ubermuscular woman without milk glands (biologically impossible if she is a female, as they said she is), and where she getting all the steroids from? In this whole world, she is the biggest most muscular person, that is a rare site now in the world, how the fuck is that possible in post apocaliptic world? and that is still like 0.000001% believeble, but how is she stronger than ANY MAN... thats biologically impossible... like no man is stronger than her... just bad writting trying to force an agenda.
The Last of US was so perfect, no sequel or prequal will ever equal or surpass it, especially with a woke ideologue like Druckman who hates the fanbase.
TLOU Part 2 was a hate letter to the fans of Part 1.
And the TV Series is just an uninspired reiteration of Part 1.
Basically Part 1 was the last edition in the series worth investing in.
We didn't need a series, TLOU should've been a standalone.
Neil Druckmann doesn’t hate the fan base and he’s not “woke” either
We wuz the last of us 3
Personally I'm very indifferent to the TV show, its very inconsistent in quality, is flawed in a lot of ways and could have been so much better; to me the game remains the best way to experience this story and its characters.
However, I have to say that thanks to the TV show, my girlfriend has watched it and now my mom is watching it. They now know what the last of us is about and I can have conversations with them about it. And even if I would have loved for them to have the definitive experience which is the game, in reality that would never happen. So I'm happy that we have a decent adaptation to show our loved ones who would never play a videogame.
There's plenty of ways to go about making TLOU a real universe with great stories of exploring the human condition
but understanding the machinations behind the scenes already denotes the fact that the series is doomed because Neil Druckmann was never a good storyteller. TLOU1 was a perfect accident, and all of the greatness is due to Bruce Straley's counsel. TLOU2 rehashed what Neil wanted to say in TLOU1 (but good advice disallowed him), which made TLOU2 an interesting concept but ultimately incoherent and messy story with Neil given more liberties and still bending his ears to other people.
But the TV show was, pretty awful for anyone that holds a higher standard to cinema and film. Whilst the game was masterpiece, in spite of Druckman, not because of him.
You leave that man to his own devices he's going to shit on the whole IP. Send a few good men next to him and he will pull off a good story because he's so damn malleable. He was never a good story teller and you can literally hear his own conflicts and lack of self-assertion if you listen to the cinematic commentary in the game (or read them online).
The season was 7.5/10 tbh, easy to forget unlike the game
It definitely lost some of the heart from the game imo
Joel is not as likable in the show imo, Bella Ramsey's ellie is just down right annoying, they lack chemistry
Humanizing Abby, to me, is/was dumb. I dislike ANY media that in the first part tries to sell us a story. A story about two individuals that we root for and their connections and then in the sequel they break those individuals up or they kill one of the characters... It's lazy writing and it's irritating. You made us invest time and emotion into these characters and then you off them. That's BS.
the GAYS will support the show, they will put in another GAY episode to get fans on board