Giving The Last Of Us 2 One More Chance!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2022
- I haven't uploaded in months. I found this video hard to make and hard to find time to work on it but now that it's fall I'm ready to work harder on videos :)
there's a lot I didn't get to cover in this video but just know these are just my thoughts on the last of us 2 and that yours may be different. That's okay, that's the way it should be. Naughty dog put a lot of thought into making this game and it's pretty obvious from interviews with the team that they knew the direction they wanted to go and the story they wanted to tell. I still think I would have rathered a different story but this is what we got and I'm okay with it. Even now I still find myself watching videos on this game or thinking about it so if that isn't a testament to what they made then idk what is.
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Loved how you explored the theme of forgiveness. It links Ellie and Abby in such a way, that it makes them two sides of the same coin.
Another strong theme is the cicle of violence. Joel killed Jerry; Abby and friends kill Joel; Ellie kills Abby's friends; Abby kills Jessie. The whole things keeps repeating. Both Abby's and Ellie's journeys are to escape the cicle. They do this through compassion, thorugh love and forgiveness.
The whole Scar island section is the climax of this theme. Wolves killed Scars, Scars kill Wolves and it ends on this fiery massacre that you're actively trying to escape from.
Even the Rattlers end up having the same fate, fire and death, once Ellie set the slaves free.
I find it fascinating how this game aproaches this. Gameplay is always at odds with the themes, on purpose. Allies are always questoning you, as you violently kill enemies, the only way to progress through the story.
This game isn't flawless, but it's still brilliant. I've never played a game that asks so much out of its player, emotionally and thematically, so inevitably it just won't work for everybody.
Your single comment did a better job of breaking it down than my 40 minute video 😅 thank you for taking the time and picking up on what I was trying to achieve with this essay. TLOU2 is such a polarizing game and will be talked about for years I feel.
@@TheGh0stType Don't worry bud. I've had about 2 years to digest the themes of this game and have wrote a similar coment on many other videos.
You made a great video and earned a like and sub from my part. Hope to see more of you in the future.
@@TheGh0stType I just finished the game for the first time yesterday and I feel it waas polarizing for all the wrong reasons. I heard so much about the "wokeness" of the game and how it ruined it, but that couldn't be further from the truth, in the end you don't care about that stuff because the story is so much more than if Ellie likes girls or guys. I felt the same as you about playing as Abby, it was a huge shock and I felt completely disconnected from her at first, I was just thinking I still wanted her to die, but during the final fight I was just thinking: why is Ellie doing this? Why can't both live and have happy lives? And almost shocked at myself for beating up Abby. Such a genius thing to make you connect to both sides.
Also, we get another glimpse at how this cycle of violence ruins lives with Tommy. When he comes to visit Ellie and Dina at the farm he's clearly obsessed with finding Abby so much so that Maria has left him.
Great comment and breakdown, i personally loved both parts, the way these games draw on your feelings is something i never experienced, ellies rage sends her on the same path that abby had just took, and the game shows how it changed both women, i liked how it shows abby trying to regain the humanity she lost with her rage for joel, and losing all her friends was the conciquence she paid, and ellies rage leaving her on her own, a similar fate to abby, it did a good job of the back stories to make you have a better understanding of how thier paths were forced to cross by revenge for a kinda selfish act due to the bond joel felt with ellie and couldnt bare to let her die for the greater good, but losing his daughter years before had broken him and he couldnt do it again, , cant wait to see where part 3 goes with the continued story!!!!
@@shanespeller7702 pains cycle of hatred
The rage that really is eating Ellie isn't the hatred towards Abby, it's the self hatred that Ellie has for herself because she had spent so much time being angry with Joel instead of forgiving him sooner
I think it’s also hating Abby for literally bashing Joel’s head in right in front of her…
@@walterrosales8025 lmao that gave me a good chuckle
Yup, reading the journal basically shows how much she hates that she isnt grieving enough for Joel or agree enough of killing enough. She is super angry that she never got that chance to really work through her issues with Joel.
@@walterrosales8025 Eh, I dont think so. She had two chances to kill Abby and didnt. Her anger is more at herself and not getting the chances to fix her relationship with Joel.
yeah totally not for abby bashing him in the head with a golf club infront of her.
ellie = revenge bad
abby = revenge good
It’s also interesting when you go through the aquarium as Ellie and see the operation table and see blood and other tools you see it as “what happened here? these people are horrible”. But then Abbie’s story sheds light onto what actually happened. It’s a small detail for me to notice that there is two sides to the story and those two sides will help you to gain the bigger picture.
two sides of the same coin. Abby collects coins. That's how much thought went into this game. Ellie collects hero cards where each character has a gauge of hero to villain, the same gauge that Ellie and Abby stands on.
Well it's a story about false assumptions really, isn't it?
it is a story that is the biggest example of "there are no black and white bad guys, they all are people to and have their reasons".
Which is something I really REALLY enjoy.
i love to see what makes people take especially the enemies and why they feel a certain way. even if it is a bad explanation I still rather have that then a guy being bad for the sake of it.
@@R4Y2k it’s a story of forgiveness think about it
@@lindseyharvey7285 Its even crazier to thino abt. Because the majority of the cards Ellie collects arent pure heroes/villains but mostly neutral, mirroring the real world where everything isnt actually black and white but shades of gray
When Ellie is chasing Nora, you continue to head downwards and into further darkness until the red area. It's a representation of Ellie's descent into 'hell' or darkness. However her reactions after show it's not true to who she is.
My English teacher playing the last of us be like:
@@katlyndobransky2419 wat
Not that deep lmaoo
@@SavyGaming905 I mean it makes sense and it wouldn't be surprising considering how much symbolism is packed into this game
I think it was a tough story to take in for a lot of people, particularly summer of 2020. I'm happy to see more people come around.
Yeah I guess people were just fed up with a shitty world that felt like it was about to end to then isolate us all completely that the game with no happy ending or hero story to escape life was too much. When we are so exhausted like in 2020 we want to escape reality and go into a fun, loving, beautiful story world - like how people in the 50s after the war were watching happy romances in cinemas.
The timing was pretty unfavorable for sure. But i still think naughty dog should've put the Abby scenes earlier and make Joels demise somewhere around the mid part of the game.
@@diogitalk I don't feel like this would have benefited the game. The point is that you need to hate Abby right off the bat, and you struggle to sympathise with her character initially because, like Ellie, you don't know her story. All you know is she killed Joel and you need to avenge him.
This is my favourite game of all time, but even I can't ignore that the pacing of the game struggles at several points. But to tell the story that they're telling, I don't think there's much they could do to help the pacing, and I truly think changing the order of events would hinder the story more than help it.
@@Jaesee fair enough
its one of the most realistic stories ever told in media in my opinion. In real life, people die like that everyday, and the grief and anger the fandom showed was true emotion, the same ellie feels in the game
"No hero's death for Joel" - As I think you probably realized by playing this, that's because Joel isn't a hero. Neither is Ellie. They're both what Joel said they were in the first game...they are survivors. Good on you for seeing it through and taking the time to understand it.
Seriously. Joel kills so many people in the first game, some warranted, others perhaps not. It's not even that the game "punishes" Joel for being a bad person, moreso it shows that when you survive long enough in a world like this - this is usually the kind of end you come to.
And he goes down NOT being a survivor, but being a sitting duck who walked into an obvious trap.
People are also acting like he didn’t get a happy ending technically, he got to spend time with Ellie for years…
@@Person-eh9nr he died knowing that she witnessed it.
The ending isn’t spending time with Ellie for years, the ending is seeing her screaming his name as he gets his brains bludgeoned out. So no, he kinda didn’t.
Hell, his ending could have been happier if she WASNT there, but he knew she was safe.
That flashback shows that Ellie isn't just in mourning for Joel... she's in mourning because he was taken from her before she could forgive him. They were in the process of their own journey, not at the end. She was still so conflicted over what he did and how she felt about it, and this conflict is literally about whether or not her life has value. Without him, she has no way to forgive Joel and embrace her own life. So she completely loses herself.
This was def part of my take as well. What a lot of people thought was the rage I felt as a visceral guilt and emptiness.
Been telling people this for years 😂
Yeah the story is the process about grief and the vicious cycle of revenge
@@theoutsiderjess4869 yeah it’s a hard theme for a lot of people to live with while playing. It isn’t clean and doesn’t end with a Disney ending. It’s a very hard game to play if you’d had trauma in your life. That’s why it resonates so much with me.
@@theoutsiderjess4869 Absolutely! It's 100% about overcoming trauma - the reason why Ellie was so upset at Joel is because she was so traumatized by her journey (losing Riley then Tess then Sam + nearly being raped or eaten by David), and needed it all to be worth it. The reason why Abby kills Joel is because she thinks it'll make the nightmares stop but what actually helps alleviate her trauma is saving Lev and Yara. The reason why Ellie goes to Santa Barbara isn't because of Tommy (she was probably always going to go), but because she needed to find some way to overcome Joel's death.
People who say that this game was telling a simplistic message about "revenge" missed the point entirely
while it broke my heart, i absolutely loved it even on my first playthrough, because it dared to do a lot of controversial gameplay decisions to service a powerful story. Honestly, the balls they had to make Ellie the boss of the theatre fight, making you fight her as you play "the villain" all the while Ellie is using skills YOU made her learn is just insane. Also how different Ellie and Abby feel movement-wise as you play, the accoustics playing into sneaking, the weapon bench animations, Abby's fear of heights, the sound design that went into breathing alone ( if you sprint and then hide and an enemy approaches, you can hear Ellie's/Abby's rough breath stop as they hold their breath and then resume very lightly, pressed through the nose)
I get why people are upset about the story, even if I wasn't but it's a shame to dismiss all the technical ingenuity that this game has because of that
Service a powerful story, or force a story? Did anyone in the history of gameplay ever play this game and not immediately realize what they were doing, roll their eyes, and hate it? Duh, obviously they're trying to show there's two sides to every coin. That doesn't change the fact that this girl tortured and murdered Joel, because he tried to stop her lunatic father, who was about to kill a 14 year old girl without explaining why or giving her a choice in the matter. IF THEY HAD JUST ASKED ELLIE they'd all still be alive. Abby deserved to die. Ellie didn't need half her friends beaten and killed, and lose 2 of her fingers to understand that she shouldn't harbor revenge in her heart.
@@mattm8441 If you're still hellbent on Joel and Abby, then clearly you still haven't completely digested the true meaning of the story, and more specifically Ellie's journey into madness. It wasn't just about forgiving Abby. It was about Ellie learning to forgive herself for not making up to Joel and not allowing herself to accept that what he did was out of the genuine goodness of his heart, despite the repercussions that it caused. Do you not realize that both the Fireflies AND Joel both didn't give Ellie a choice in the matter? Ellie is caught in a tug-of-war between people who are stupid enough to try and save the world, and a guy who will never let another daughter down again - with her stuck in the middle, neither of them in her mind taking her own actual wishes and thoughts into consideration. It's a loophole of trauma, and the effects it can cause.
People really need to take a step back, flush themselves clean of all prior knowledge, and allow themselves a bit of perspective to understand what is truly at play with the story. Ellie makes it clear that with the knowledge she had, the entirety of the first game, she wanted to give herself up to something that she found was higher than herself. All the way until the end of Part 2, where she finally lets herself see the situation clearly (After everything is already done and there is no taking back the death caused), she would have been more than happy to die in that hospital bed, like Merlene said. It was the cycle of violence that caused her to see this in the first place, because her mind was so filled with rage against herself, and the world she was forced into. Throughout the entirety of Part 2, you constantly are given glimpses into her and Joel's past that she blissfully chooses to ignore, out of fear. Did you notice the dart boards, or The Turning arcade machine?
It isn't just a generic revenge plot, it's a complex ladder of fueled self-hatred in a place where there are no happy endings, or kiss goodbyes, no matter how much you try or want one. To get to her destination, she had to walk through the valley of the shadow of death, blind to herself the entire trek.
@@mediumsoftdrink2866 just so u know man, people will not have the same opinions as you. I understand damn well all of it, still doesn't make me like the game anymore. This goes for all things, opinions will be different for all kinds of people so there is no need for anyone to bash others or anything like that.
@@timeless9499 Oh I’m aware that people have their opinions and they are allowed to have their opinions 100%, of course. Even if you understand it, you may not like it because it’s just not for you or too negative of emotions for some people, and that is 100% valid. There are a lot of valid criticisms about the game too. I’m not saying it isn’t. But if anything, I’ve seen the people who don’t like the game almost religiously bash it and the people who like it as if anybody who enjoys it are stupid for liking it and don’t understand anything about anything. It’s kind of insulting that it’s even been taken as far as death threats and serious personal attacks for a lot of people. I would never go that far over a simple video game story, but some folks are so pent up in their own “opinions” that their bias towards the game really shows in how they treat others when talking about it, and I feel it seriously detracts from understanding the actual story.
My comment was in response to the above comment which I disagreed with and found wasn’t exactly what I saw when analyzing the story, so I was trying to explain my own opinion on what the game was trying to say, as I thought some of what they said was incorrect. Again, that is my opinion and they have every right to theirs. Everybody is going to see different things based on their personal bias and own life experiences, but it seems that some people who dislike the games story and call it shit and forceful really are hellbent on shitting on the game, and I don’t think it deserves it, just because somebody didn’t enjoy the direction it took, or it wasn’t what they personally wanted with the story. So because I enjoyed it so much I’ve been dabbling in comment sections to spread the talk about it and maybe change some minds or allow others to see things from a different perspective, which is really exactly what the games story is trying to do. Thanks for the balance tho and reminder that some people won’t budge, and that’s fine.
@@mediumsoftdrink2866 Yeah I agree. I feel that there are people on both sides that can take things way too far. I mean the death threats and such are crazy man. But I will let you know my reason for not liking the game which is probably a reason that most don't have, this about to get personal ngl. I have severe depression and my meds aren't working so I try to focus on happy things and such so that I don't spiral down into a pit. But I guess things like this game, even parts of the first game, bring me back down and basically just fill my mind with the same sadness I've been trying to distract myself from. So hopefully I feel better at some point so that I can enjoy these types of games. Because I know most people say that not everything has a happy ending and that people who are mad at this game obviously don't know that, but me of all people knows what its like to not have a happy ending. However, the gameplay in both games as well as the graphics and mechanics are wonderful, its just the story that doesnt sit right with me, since I know how bad people can be and how dark humans can be sometimes. But, this is probably just a personal reason unlike most people who have different reasons why they didn't like it. Thanks for being passive and not aggressive or anything. Have a good day man
him saying abby choose the path of love and forgiveness while she was bashing dina skull in might be the funniest thing ever.
Oof. Whole video went right over your head didn’t it.
@@JamesEatWorld7758 that part in itself is pretty funny, you can acknowledge that and still understand the point of the video
@@isadora6092 people who absolutely love this game have the mindset that they're smarter than everyone else for some reason
@@greigns7781 Most people loved the game, it's the anti-woke crowd that hated it.
@@porter9494 i remember the anti woke calling abby a transgender bcs she have a muscle lol
You can actually find a guitar early in the game before the theatre. If you explore the Music Store in Seattle. Ellie would sing Take On Me by Aha. That was also so goooood!
One of my favorite scenes. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it
Yes, but that’s optional
It's too bad this was an "option." It should have been forced in the main story. Such an incredible scene. ❤🤘
@@yanomsain I have no idea how people could have possibly missed it, even on my grounded difficulty playthrough I went there, what's the point of not going to explore the area of seattle if you are playing the game.
Ï totally in love with Abbey Ï want everyone to survive 15:28
Also I just want to say none of this game is about forgiving Abby it’s learning to forgive yourself aka the guilt she has of wasting what few years she had with Joel
I agree she has to forgive herself before she can get over the Joel stuff.
Killing Abby wouldn't have brought Joel back and would have just kept the cycle of violence going.
Ellie had to break that cycle,
even though it was a highly unrewarding ending.
I tell a lot of people that The Last of Us isn't about Joel and Ellie
It's about a young woman's journey growing up.
She was a little girl in the first post-apocalyptic game.
Now she's a full-blown woman in the second.
The Left behind DLC was one of the best stories they ever told.
It filled in so much about Ellie's personality
Showed her bite backstory and her experimenting with kissing Riley. She was basically growing up and learning about her sexuality.
Learning who she is as a woman.
The Last of Us for me is,
Ellie's story more than anyone else.
I picked up on that. My issue is it was a long and miserable journey just to tell me something I already knew.
@Frisbee yeah great. Killed a lot of people to get there though. All for a generic and predictable plot.
@Frisbee yeah, and every bit of that was generic and predictable
The secondary message, just like red dead 2 is “revenge is a fool’s game”
Naughty Dog being so naughty playing with everyone's damn emotions
Personally, I want a part three just so that we can finally have a happy ending for Ellie, and so that she can forgive herself. I’ve personally always believed that the games are about love hate, and forgiveness.
I agree we have enough hate and ugliness in the world for a video game there should be some sort of a happy ending otherwise what's the point? Basically saying the video game is for an escape mechanism kind of like a movie I mean how many movies do you like where the main character that you've grown to like ends up being a complete psycho? It's it's just not what people look for in terms of escape if you ask me.
I think she already has.
I don’t think we need a part 3 , What I think we need is a sequel on what happened during that 20 year time skip and what Joel did to give Tommy nightmares, Which no doubt in my mind will happen as the plot is too good to let go.
@@adino2909 never gonna happen, as long as Druckman is at the helm.
He detests Joel and the first game. He's a man with a heart of slime and loves nothing more than to destroy and subvert.
@@videogamesandfilm6821 he created it. Quit crying
I chose The Last of Us Part 2 for a comparative English essay. Basically I had to compare the themes to one of Shakespeare’s plays, and I realised that the reason Ellie is so determined to kill Abby isn’t because she hates her, but more because she hates herself for not forgiving Joel.
People say the game is about forgiveness, which is true, but it’s more about Ellie forgiving herself more so than forgiving Joel or Abby. She can’t forgive herself because of her hatred towards Joel, and because she loved him so much. She says “she want[s] to try”.
As much as it is about forgiveness, it’s also about guilt. Ellie’s guilt for not forgiving Joel even though she did save her life. And thus why she hates herself and knows that her revenge against Abby doesn’t correlate with how she feels, thus why chooses to not kill her in the end when she finally realises.
If anything, this just strengthens the love between Joel and Ellie. It continues the themes of the first game, the theme of love and how Ellie comes to realise her love for Joel as much as Joel loves her.
I compared Ellie’s character to Shylock, the main villain of Shakespeare’s Othello, and got an A+ haha. Highest mark.
Congratulations!
I actually used the last of us part 2 for an essay I wrote for my Uni class. A personality analysis of Ellie. I love how video games are capable of having such complex themes and characters.
Shylock is from The Merchant of Venice, not Othello. The villain of Othello is Iago (arguably Shakespeare’s greatest villain!)
@@jl4968 my mistake haha. Still think Shylock is the better villain tho.
You confuse Merchant of Venice and Othello and got an A+?
I like how the flashes of Joel that Ellie gets before/during the final battle, parallel Abby's dreams of her dad. Abby seeing her dad's dead body/Ellie seeing Joel's dead body ---> Abby seeing her dad alive and smiling in the hospital room/Ellie seeing Joel playing the guitar.
I remember after I played TLOU2 I was so confused and upset with the game but I remember reading a comment from someone and they quoted Gandhis "An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind." After that I realized that's just what this whole game was about. Eventually someone needs to stop the bloodshed and forgive themselves and those who have hurt them.
I've watched countless critiques of this game that come from a place of love, but this was such a different perspective and a great take at that! As someone who adored this journey from its release, it baffled me at first to hear your initial thoughts completely differ from mine. Regardless, I stayed to hear you out, and understand your experience. It's meta to think about. That's what I adore about TLOUP2. If I'd never played this game and learned to open my eyes to the other side of the coin, I'd have probably clicked away immediately. It’s insane to think that the same videogame that so many dismissed is the same videogame that changed me so dramatically.
Part I taught me to love again, Part II taught me to understand, and learn to forgive.
Your journey from blind hatred towards learning to understand what makes this game tick is so magical in that regard. I cannot. Maybe I’m just a random 17-year-old getting emotional over nothing, but I can’t help but appreciate this game with my whole heart. Thank you so much for opening your heart to it, just like we all did with Abby.
And this right here is the exact point. Understanding and changing perspective. I got very lucky that the point of the video I wanted to make just so happen to be one big theme of the game. I had my idea for this video before giving this game a second chance, I did watch hours of essays and critiques but nothing compared to opening myself up to what the game wanted me to experience and I'm so glad I did. Thank you so much for watching and sharing your thoughts 😊 I'm so moved by the response to this and I was honestly expecting this video to get like 30 views so I'm so blown away and appreciative. I'm going to do my best to make more in depth content like this
@@TheGh0stType You're so damn right. Latching onto the thoughts and feelings of others can be fun but it doesn't really compare to forming your own opinions from your own personal experience. Not many people pick up on Abby's dreams and their significance or the idea that you're supposed to be feeling Ellie's deep hatred. Absolutely adored your perspective and articulate thoughts. Hoping your channel blows up haha subbed and can't wait for more content
@@TheGh0stType TLOU part 2 is garbage, F feminist / LGBT leftist woke nonsense.
Nobody was asking for this f leftist college kids drama fest.
The game is supposed to be about a post apocalyptic world where people fight for their survival vs a disease that is threatening to kill off mankind.
But ohh NOOOO...somehow Niel CUCKMAN and his helper Anita Sarkeesian ( a well known crazy feminist ) were thinking that nah nah... people want actually Bigot sandwiches and stupidly written characters who do stupid things that dont make any sense considering their intelligence and behavior that was established in the first game.
Nah nah logic and being consistent be damned, because people don't care about a good written story, nah... people care about feminism and LGBT and bigot sandwiches. ( sarcasm )
Man who in his/her right mind can defend this garbage game???
Only people who are also far leftists crazy people brainwashed by cultural marxism . Have fun working the rest of your life in starbucks ( you wannabe communists ) because that's all you get with your stupid feminist dance course degree.
___________________
I hope Niel cuckman makes a part 3... now that Joel is dead and Ellie as a character is ruined , the game is done, but i hope Cuckman is so delusional that he thinks people actually liked Abby and he makes a part 3 about Abby... lol man will that game be a huge financial floppy, man i hope he really is that stupid.. i would lol so hard.
99,8 % of gamers and TLOU fan base are not interested in your crazy WOKENESS. But keep making it , people will vote with their wallets.
And no matter how many FAKE AWARDS you give those WOKE games and movies, fact is people dont consume that shit. Thats why when the story of TLOU part 2 came out , the game went instantly on discount, because people stopped buying that shit.
It only sold at the beginning because people were hyped and were thinking the story is actually good based on the first game. But then , the more and more game play people started to see on youtube , the more people stopped buying that shit game.
LOL a new game goes on dicount right after 1 or 2 months it came out... lol ...whata flop
@@tanelviil9149 Hard cope
Kind of a shame you needed a video game to learn all this...Maybe go meet some real people Life will deal you all these moments, in real time.
This game proves nobody is good and nobody is evil. Everyone is on their own path to redemption. Abby and Ellie are the same, Abby is just a few steps ahead. She already learned revenge doesn’t fix things. This change is masterful storytelling. I felt the same way when I had to play as Abby for the first time but then you learn, she isn’t the villain. Nobody is the villain. Everybody is powered by their choices and everyone can make the wrong choices but still find redemption. Can’t wait for Ellie to find her redemption in part 3!
Abbys found "something to keep fighting for" being lev, Ellie will find that, I'm sure of it 💙
See you in 2030 when part 3 comes out.
Don't know about that chief. It's a tough thing to sell when the game treats ellie's vengeance being worse than abby's
Ellie was such a beloved character in the first game. This version of her kind of soiled my opinion of her. Not because she's good or evil, I've loved both. I wanted to kill Abby, but I didn't want to see Ellie kill herself over it. By the end, Ellie felt...sapped. It felt like such an injustice to her and Joel.
It was done so well but I don't feel like it was a success because of how much was lost in the game. Like a hollow ending.
I feel that the sudden flashback of Joel during the final fight between Ellie and Abby is to show us that he is at peace and resting. Just an interesting thought.
I just beat this game last weekend after getting it at launch, never playing it, and somehow avoided all spoilers. I only knew “something” controversial happened. After Joel died I was like “ok, whatever it is has to be close”. I had to look up what was such a big deal after I beat the game. The story completely worked for me. I enjoyed it an immense amount. Brutal. Just brutal.
Didn’t a ton of people hate Joel’s decision to doom humanity at the end of 1? Despite loving his character. Then you find out during that sequence he kills Abby’s father. I don’t get why people couldn’t then sympathize with Abby. Glad anyone that revisits this is able to enjoy the game for what it is - a story.
After Abby gets her “justice” she let’s Ellie go - twice. And despite having earned a relative life of leisure Ellie can’t let it go. And through that hatred ends up saving Abby, letting her go, then loses everything herself. Brutal. That’s why the Rattlers section is important. Makes TLoU 1 seem quaint.
when the game came out I thought abt this a lot. and the only explanation I can come to is there was a lot of people who didn’t understand that Joel’s choice at the end of part 1 was not supposed to be heroic. and I think that everyone just thought we were on the same page. naughty dog assumed we all got that Joel was a good character, not a good guy. but a large group I think played the first game and finished it thinking. “yup, saved my daughter. I see no problems”. we all would’ve done what joel did, that’s what makes the writing so good. too good I guess bc it split everyone down the middle lol
I feel like the main reason i ( and a lot of other people) didnt enjoy the game as much as they should have (cus putting my feelings aside its a great game and i can now appreciate it for what it is) is the fact we didnt get to see ellie actually forgive joel and their relationship get better again either before joel dies or through flashbacks. I dont think it would change too much about the rest of the game but atleast u give ur players an emotional conclusion and some closure about Joel and Ellie before killing him.
@@connerdearing I don't think that people had a misconception of Joel being heroic. Most people both real friends and people I've talked to online had the same reaction to part 1 as I had. Realizing that you were actually playing as "the bad guy" but humans are able to understand that people are only as good as the world at the time allows them to be so compared to most other people you could deal with a lot worse people than Joel. Yes he talks about that he has done some bad things in his life to survive, but you are able to judge him by the standards of the world he is living in. Just like if you watch a show or movie about when Roman empire was at it's highest, you understand that by todays standards not a single person would be considered good. Their empire was built on conquering other countries and taking the soldiers who were still alive, and the rest of their men, women and children as slaves. Or take the Spartans, 300 is not a very historically accurate film but if you know the real history of the Spartans, you might not be on the side of the Persians empire building but you wouldn't be on the side of the Spartans either.
I think a big reason why so many people felt the shock from part 2 is because you had been waiting for 7 years to find out what happened after the cut to black in part 1. And in the marketing while there was a lot of speculation that Joel had died in the game after just that first teaser annoucement CGI trailer. All the trailers and marketing made it seem like we were going to at least be getting Joel for a significant part of the story before he would die. I'm not gonna say that I called that he would die so soon, but with Ellie being on a revenge quest and all the gameplay showed her, I didn't think he would last for more than 25% of the game. Even though you do get to spend more time with him in backflashes, just dying the way he did was very hard to accept. And the game now has done a very risky move because onces the shock is over you are ready for revenge, but after half the game and you finally get there. Suddenly you have to replay half the game as the person you want to be fighting against. It's a bold move but it hinges on if by the time you don't get to the theater and even though as I did cared greatly for Lev, I didn't want to fight Ellie and I wanted Ellie to kill me. Then they didn't pull off what was clearly their goal, because at the time I honestly wished that Ellie would kill Abby and then have Lev return with them to Jackson since I really did like his character. If you make me care more about the companion character than you have made me be able to care about the character I'm playing as they have failed their bold move. Not for everyone of course, you clearly didn't have that problem, and as someone who has 100% the game I have went from someone who hated Abby to still not wanting anything to do with her but I learned to accept this is where they wanted the story to go.
Another similar example would be Negan from the walking dead I stopped watching not long after, but I know people were furious when Rick let him live. And it was not until the last couple of seasons that they were able to forgive him, some are able to enjoy his character for being that grey person you both hate and can't keep your eyes off. Yes JDM is such a good actor and brought such insane life into the character that people did love to see Negan but many wanted to see him the same way people wanted to see Cersei on GoT, she's a great character but at the end you want her to lose. Abby didn't have to become a good or likable character for people to be able to forgive her for what she did, but the problem was she just was not nowhere near as interesting as the other characters. She felt more like she was a vechile that you used to protect the people you did care about by beating the crap out of humans and infected with her bar hands if you needed to.
When it comes to the tv show I'm not expecting them to change it and let Joel live or anything like that, I would however want them to not do what the game did and kill him off in episode 1. I think it will be much smarter to do whatever adapations needs to be done for the story to function as a tv show when it comes to their backstory but tell them in a different order so that you can build up an understanding of Abby, flesh her character out more so that when it happens you still feel the heartbreak so you don't get to the ending and get frustrated that Ellie doesn't get to finish the job.
Joel didn't doom humanity, the fireflies were incompetent terrorists, this is shown throughout the entire first game
@@levelcheap2435 looking at the way he was talking about it at the start of the 2nd game. He didnt agree
Elli : im immune to the virus ❌
Dina : im pregnant ✅
what?
How does someone being immune to the virus help or change anything for a common person? Dina being pregnant has immediate, real-world repercussions for herself as well as her partner (Ellie). Ellie being immune is... good for her? Joel killed the only doctor who could do anything with that. That storyline is over.
It's like you telling me you'll never go bald. Alright, cool. What do you want me to do with that information? Give you a medal?
@@clarkmichaels822 that's just bad writing the creators went stupid with TLOF 2 dumbest storyline in fictional history
Also, don’t forget that Ellie and Abby are on the exact same path. Abby’s just a little bit further along the road. Abby’s revenge didn’t bring her any peace, and she lost most of her friends by her Day 1 starts. She was “alone”.
Joel and Abby found something (someone) to fight for. Maybe Ellie finding something (person, cause etc.) to fight for gonna be the third installment to the series?
I might have forgotten to mention it in my video (there's a lot I wasn't able to mention) but I believe it was Laura Bailey the actress for Abby who said Ellie's at the beginning of her journey when abbys end. Or something to that degree and it stuck with me, so you're 100% correct!
Thank you for the video! The way you explained the emotions you felt during the game really resonated with me. It will be a while before I replay this game, but that feeling of not wanting to continue what you characters are doing is something that will stay with me for a while
This is amazing... i felt exactly the same way as you... Last of us 1 changed my expectations and bar of what a game should be.. I have never played anything else campaign-like because this game literally traumatized me... i played NBA to just kick it with my friends but outside of that is either The Last of us once a year or nothing else!! This is the greatest game of all time for me
This is a game that took me a year to get after learning Joel died, then, it took me multiple playthroughs to truly understand what it was saying. I started to love it. Not as much as the first, but I like the last of us part 2, it only took a year for me to open myself to it.
And playing it, I saw all the little things, it's the little things, that made me love it. The little things that are easy to miss.
thanks for sharing, since its release i guessed that way more critics would change their mind on it as time went on than fans would in reverse. I love hearing about takes like yours bc man this game has so much to offer, always glad to hear when someone else gets some of the positives from it that i got :)
@@TheFreshTrumpet Same man, I hated this game so much at first, after playing through one more time i like it now but i do not love it though, like it's an 8/10 while part 1 will always be a 10/10 for me
In my opinion if a sequel game takes year to win over fan of the original that means it was written poorly
It’s also little things that people who just love the game miss, after a part one of everyone having trust issues, everyone literally introduces themselves way too much, Ellie leaves a map? Really, they wrote these characters way less intelligent than part 1
@@losreyes8175I mean, the people at Jackson had been living for years periodically accepting new people into their settlement. We also find out Joel traded with others for coffee. It was the norm for them at that point. And remember, Joel in the first game trusted Sam and Henry again even after being betrayed by them once. Why would he not trust someone who hasn’t wronged him yet, after 5 years of peace?
As for the map, Ellie dropped it in the struggle and at the end was too shaken up to think about anything. Tommy and Jesse had to snap her out of her daze so she would leave. It wasn’t a “dumb decision”, she didn’t see it and then leave it behind on purpose. She wasn’t mentally in the right place to even think about it.
The fact the game was able to invoke such strong feelings is what makes it great..
Seriously! It’s a very decisive game don’t get me wrong. But the emotions this game put me through no other game has done before, and for that. This is what makes this game one of the greatest of all time. I’ve been telling everyone this game is going to age like fine wine.
@@marcushopkins8558 no it wont. But it‘s still okay to like these Games. There are people who love the Transformers movies and think the overall Story is great. So you‘re not alone with opinions like that. Feel free.
@@blackwolf4653 And i think it’s great that you don’t like it. people sometimes just don’t like to appreciate such unique tales like these, it may be hard for you and there’s no judgment. feel free
@@damimami5144 yeah… i just wished for more intelligent writing. Everything else was 10/10. Gameplay, Music….
@@blackwolf4653 to each their own i always say.
Great breakdown. Amazing how your feelings/thoughts are exactly the same as mine. I never played TLOU 2 till 2 weeks ago. I didn’t wanna play it bcs I knew what was going to happen and just wanted to stick with the love in the first game. In the end I am glad I did play it. I had tears in my eyes while the credits were playing and just sat on my couch not knowing how to feel. TLOU 2 is definitely a masterpiece in some way while I also think some things could have been done better. The only thing I am thinking now is that they can’t have this series to end this way. The first game was about love and having a good feeling in the end, the 2nd was about rage/hate which got me on the edge of a depression. This story can only be concluded with some sort of happy ending. That’s what Ellie, Joel and Abby all deserve… ✌️✌️loved the video ✌️✌️
The visceral rage I felt towards Abby after she killed Joel was immense. I was happy every time Ellie gutted one of her friends.
By the end, I was praying that Ellie spared Abby for both of their sakes.
The fact that Ellie and Joel never really got to get their relationship back to the way it was is the hardest part. Watching Ellie basically turn from the positive girl she was into, well, Joel, hurts as well. Amazing story that idk if I’ll ever be able to touch again.
Same here. That last battle my wife and I were audibly saying 'Ellie stop it, stop it'
Very cool contrast between Joel in the first game and Ellie in the second. Both with a goal in mind but for Joel that goal was driven by his love for Tess and eventually Ellie. While Ellie thinks that her goal is driven by her love for Joel, its actually just blind hate for the person responsible for killing Joel
Yes exactly! She loses Jesse, tommy is literally shot in the head and now crippled, Dina leaves her, all because she couldn't let go of her vengeance. She wasted all her time hating Joel and missed the last few moment of his life with him. And because of her anger, she loses her two fingers so she can't even play the guitar Joel left her. She's consumed by her guilt for wasting the last few moments of Joel's life. It's great story telling. I get the anger at the game, but it's misplaced. Those who hate it aren't processing the grief of losing Joel, the same way Ellie didn't.
The story was hot garbage yo. All of it.
@@KenSamaGomenasai cool
I tore through this game in 3 or 4 days and it's a bit of a fever dream. It was an experience. I loved it, but I don't know if I can ever bring myself to play it again.
Same. It was such an emotional gut punch that, as much as I loved it, it took a real toll on me emotionally. I want to replay it, but I've got to work myself up to it again. It's like watching Schindler's List - great movie, but not one I want to rewatch often because it's hard, bleak going.
Try grounded mode. It was a whole new experience for me.
yeah definitly a one time thing...
Its all in the first playtrough; its all about not have gotten spoilered. I remember going from losing so many tears to not knowing what side im on, to feeling so overwhelmingly hopeless in what my intentions would be if i was ellie also loosing myself just like her - it grabbed yet shattered my feelings like nothing and noone else could ever in my entire life is the answer to "did you like the story" for me. there is no yes or no. it made me think and feel in ways i never have; and thats why appreciate it so much.
For me it is a matter of liking the story and experiencing it.
I really like the story, but not because it is a fun story or a good story.
it is depressing, emotional and really though provoking at times.
Especially the parts where 2 conflicting views reach each other and class.
Like the religion of the scars or the quest for revenge on someone that at first feels like a bad person to the bone but seeing her perspective makes you think about people you may have had a conflict with in real life and now think "was there a reason why they thought so differently from me?"
But in the end if you don't let your emotions of good and bad overrule what the game wants you to experience, you get away with so much more then just a really well calculated story.
I think the choosing sides theme is something the story challenges you on. If you’ve picked a side, your already missing the point. Abby has completely justifiable reasons to kill Joel, and throughout her story you learn that she is a human being who helps and hurts people. The same goes for Ellie, who is justified in wanting to kill Abby, but you quickly see how much death she is willing to deal in seeking revenge for a single person’s death.
Everyone is flawed in this world, and that’s okay. We are just passengers in their stories and it seems like many people had a problem with there not being easy heroes or villains in the story.
Its absolutely not about spoilers
Yeah I didn’t get it spoiled either. It was incredible. I anticipated Joel’s death but not so early. Incredible game
Abby Day 1 arc still matters in the game, just to give context as to what Ellie and Dina were up against. It was pretty cool seeing their base at the Seahawks stadium.
I remember during the torture gameplay I literally felt sick because I knew how she was feeling and I knew she had lost herself at this Point. I kept saying don’t do itttt nooooo haha damn memories. I honestly loved both of the games
5:06 "If I ever have to lose you, I would rather lose myself"
Ellie just can't accept that Joel died, and she prefered ruin herself. Now I get why they have chosen this song. Good video.
This game left one hell of an impression on me. I had a rough experience on my first play through. I had issues like everyone else with the story and was so exhausted by the end, but it wasn’t enough for me to drop the game completely. Despite the leaked spoilers, the hundreds of people that outright despised this game and ND, every little nitpick and flaw that’s found in its storytelling, it didn’t change what I felt about the game. Idk if I can ever complete another playthrough because of how exhausting the story is but I would experience this game again if I could.
Im so amazed by the amount of different experiences everyone seems to get from playing this game… The first thing I did when i finished it was to play it again, I got so invested in this immersive story and its characters I felt like not wanting to leave…
Ive had this video in my watch later tab for 6 months now and I have been waiting until I finished part 2 and tonight I did and after that incredible Rollercoaster of emotions this video was perfect, Thank you.
Now on to watch mat pats video on why ellie isn't actually immune
Good review mate, was listening to it while playing last of us 1. I love both games and the series. One thing I want them to focus on in the next game is the cordycepts and resolve the whole the story around it.
really great essay! i love the way you walk through your emotions at every step. that kind of internal interrogation is so important to understanding a game like this and tbh i think that's why a lot of ppl didn't like this game, bc they weren't prepared to examine why they felt the way they felt. for me, i played TLOU2 a year after it came out, so i had heard stuff about it but none of that really informed my experience. and it really worked for me. i felt like everything that the devs intended me to feel i felt. abby's first day genuinely worked for me too, and i found i could hold my love and understanding of eli AND learn to love abby too at the same time. ppl always make it either/or but i love them both, which is why the final fight was so intense for me. great job!!
2 mins into this... 70 subs is criminal. I already know this video is a banger (TLOU2 Fan btw) You've got one more sub.
Wow! Thank you for the compliment! I really appreciate it
(tlou2 fan btw) ah so you have terrible taste
@@laszlokortvelyessy1999 why are you even here in this video if you are so closed minded?
This is a game with mature emotions and your take on it was on point
It wasn’t a story we hoped or wanted but it is a story nd a great one to be experienced like it is
But it does not feel real. Its story acted and not lived by characters
Hey phenomenal video, great and thorough analysis without being annoying about it. You managed to appreciate something you didn't love and took time to understand it. Even though I disagreed with the things you didn't like I still loved the video and enjoyed watching the full analysis. Awesome work
This video is a masterpiece. There was so much emotion and thought put into your explanations. I loved this second part because no other game has had this kind of effect on me or forcing its players to stretch so far emotionally.
That 2nd time she goes after abby its not about revenge, its about closure she knows its pointless she knows its bad its about her sleeping and eating at night going after abby is the only thing she knows its a feeling she cant shake because of her guilt of hating joel for that whole time. That's what people misinterpret from that fight on the beach.
I think that's accurate and well worded and adds to the reason she didn't kill Abby in the end.
Yea but that’s too emotionally deep for most people to grasp so well you know it’s trash 🗑
@@SGhosht To be fair, you have to have a very high EQ to understand tlou2. 😴
This breakdown was everything!
It's amazing what themes you found in the second game The theme of forgiveness is very big.
And now looking at it after all of this time from when the game first originally dropped it's just a tragic story between two characters put in circumstances where they just had to survive
Abby's mission was to find Joel get revenge for Joel killing her father... Like said in the video her finding her revenge didn't get for any gratification or fix the problems that she was dealing with
And you can look at Ellie the same way at the end of the game after she's had that fight with Abby in the water.
It's a tragic story of people going incredible lengths for revenge only to find out that it has changed them to a fundamental level into something they are not.
This video broke down almost exactly how I feel towards Abby's character now not like I necessarily love her but I understand... Joel was not the hero of the story he was a survivor ...
Man you really did a fantastic job with this video definitely subbed and I can't wait to hear your future breakdowns not only of this game but many other things as well
I have to say… I’ve watched a lot of Last of Us II retrospectives and this video is by far the best I’ve seen.
Pacing, insight, tone, everything was balanced, well considered, and fair.
You’ve more than earned my sub.
Hey, so I just wanted to say.. EXCELLENT job!! I've just starting a TH-cam channel myself so I can relate that the editing process is long and tedious. I can't even imagine the hours you put in on it. I watched the whole thing and just wow!! I have played and beat this game, and there's a reason why it won GOTY. Overall, just so well done.. I can' t reiterate that enough. You should be VERY proud of it.
I really appreciate that! Thank you
Also the sheep farm is what Joel dream was to live on a farm with sheep. Also Ellie was suffering from ptsd. This game to me was the whole psyche of people living in this environment and having actions have some repercussions to them and it was trying to get personal.
Great video man I feel the same way and did the same thing as you but I completed both games very recently
Really respect that you went back and gave the game an honest try, and glad that you came out of it with a better understanding for yourself, even if you didn’t love it. I hope more and more people are able to do the same thing as time goes on because, love it or hate, the game made some bold choices and is strong thematically, and there’s a lot to think about and chew on if nothing else.
Personally, I loved the game from the first time I played it, and Ive loved it even more with each play through, but it’s a very emotionally driven game, and certain choices just won’t resonate with everyone emotionally and that’s okay.
For some reason I didn’t think too deeply about what I wanted from TLOU2 (maybe because the first game felt like such a complete story in and of itself to me), and maybe that helped me handle some of the shock of Joel’s sudden death. But if you’d asked me what I wanted, I probably would have described a very different game from the one we got. But like you said we often don’t get what we want, and that’s okay because sometimes we get what we need instead and I think this was much more so the kind of game/experience I needed at the time than anything I would have imagined.
Honestly, this was beautiful. I haven’t played TLoU2 yet, but your video has inspired me to relive both campaigns simultaneously. The first campaign was truly awesome to me. I laughed, cried (a lot), and I found myself playing it over and over again. One thing I’ve learned to love about naughty dog is the stories they want to tell aren’t what we want always, but somehow exactly what we need.
You're too kind! Thank you so much! These games are really something special!
Well said
Why would you watch this if you haven’t played it yet?? Ffs. Way to ruin one of the best games ever made for yourself 🤦♂️
really great video man. Definitely see the time you put into this and the thoughts.
I agree with a lot you said and though you find some parts .... not necessary, or you didn't like the parts, I do believe that almost everything in the game is there to serve a purpose.
Like day 1 of the Abby arc. What I got from that day is the scope at which the WLF operated and how organized they are. Also going through the world showed how little the WLF really has to fear from the zombies and that have conflicts on their own. Which is not explored a lot in Part 1 of TLOU.
Sure there are some factions in Part 1 but I never really saw them as world building but more as some people trying to survive. not a full scale conflict.
The story was definitely about forgiveness and I see Ellie as a pre-Abby, which you lightly touched on as well. Where Ellie knows only hate and revenge Abby KNEW only hate and revenge.
It is funny how often the part where Abby's road to go to Jackson is overlooked as it is basically a 1 on 1 copy of what Ellie goes through to get to Abby.
All in all I think, like you said, this is not a fun story, its depressing, its makes you feel emotional, even miserable at times. And that is fine because I think its also refreshing to see a story that isn't all sunshine and rainbows whenever someone calls upon the power of friendship.
Especially the part when Ellie kills Owen and Mel.
The realization of here quest for revenge having killed someone who is pregnant while knowing she knows Dina is pregnant as well. Which is really felt here and later when Abby doesn't kill Dina.
NaughtyDog wanted to tell a sad story, a sad story, not a heroes story.
The thing everybody wanted deep down is having that heroes story for Ellie, seeing Joel be the hero again.
But the game tells us there are consequences to ones actions and what happened with Joel we see that in the most brutal way.
And don't forget that Joel is NO hero. He killed people out of love for 1 person (Ellie).
He killed people that did nothing to Joel. He also shut the door to a possible cure to the whole infection. Joel is NO hero.
In pat 1 Ellie was an innocent girl that learned more and more from Joel and between games from Tommy as well.
Ellie is also no hero, she kills people out of revenge and the most important people , Mel and Owen, come back to bite here.
All in all the story is so enormously mutli leveled where some people just hate to play as Abby, I myself was REALLY curious about Abby and what her thing is. Who is she. why is she the way that she is. Is she really so bad?
I believe there are always reasons for things to happen and everybody has walked upon a road to get to a certain point. And this game really showed me that and for some reason after playing this game it stuck in my head for weeks. Ultimately it changed my mindset in such a way that I even changed the way I approach conflicts. When someone is angry or annoyed I want to know why. Why is X happening and what is your reasoning behind it.
And it is refreshing to hear that often there is no black and white but a a lot of stuff that collects to climax in a certain way.
Anyways this commant is way to long XD
Great video and glad you, in the end, think it is a good game even if the story is not fully to what you wanted :)
I love you so much for this video.. I agree with everything 100% and had such a hard time explaining, now I’m just gonna use this video to do it
This a beautiful review and it isn't easy to sit through but does speak to us to something challenging and complicated to explain. I do hope naughty dog can keep exploring that.
Owens death hits hard for me on a replay. He’s the only reason Ellie and Tommy are alive, He tried to stop Abby too. He clearly regrets it ( Seeing the old scar and sparing him) It just felt like he was the only one who wanted it to stop 🛑 so when I saw him die again it hurt.
I liked Owen and I appreciated that he had empathy for others. But honestly he seems to lack empathy for Mel! Cheats on her and leaves to the aquarium without even telling Mel? Who's pregnant with his kid!
@@mariah.dyou gotta remember the history him and Abby had though, she's known Owen since they were with the fireflies and they've been in love since, that doesn't just go away. It was just pushed to the side because of Abby's obsession with killing Joel
Also when he dies he’s just tryna get the gun,I think he wanted to talk and reason with Ellie,he could have struck her and he was a trained soldier.he never wanted any of this
Yeah, I appreciated Owen more on my second play through, the first time I was so blinded with pure rage I loved all of their deaths. But when he says "listen it's not worth" to Ellie before he gets shot, I feel he truly means it.
Owen was a great character, people screaming he was a scumbag for wanting to be with Abby while Mel was pregnant … well … “he who casts the first stone”
Super well put. I don’t want to type an essay in my response to your video essay but it taught me a lot
Great video my man. Your feelings mimic my own. Love it and hate it in equal measure! Playing the Part 1 Remake right now, and maybe I’m watching this so I don’t feel I have to replay the sequel. It’s a tough game to stomach for me. Anyway, kudos on a fantastic summary. 👍
2:17 is the best transition i have ever seen in my life, not just in youtube but ever. Replacing what should be the tonic chord with a new key on a new song, having it throw you off and segue you as the music modulates is genius
I love this game, it's up there with some of my favourites and even though this is a death sentence I prefer over the first game. I'm really happy people are giving this game another chance, even if they come out the other end not enjoying it (as I can fully understand why this game isn't for everyone) as long as they understand what the game is doing and why, I'm happy.
I think there are a lot of us that absolutely love this game. Maybe we're not as loud as the contingent that hates it for some reason. But we're here.
The gameplay is so awesome. Even with the bad story, it's still amazing.
@@ParagonGorilla bad story?
One of my favourite parts about Part II is how it was willing to constantly drop the kiddy gloves when it comes to portraying violence and brutality in its cutscenes as much as it’s gameplay. You could say a lot of things about the story, but jarring isn’t one of them.
In Part I, whilst the game lets you blow off the limbs of both people and Infected in full gory detail, the times that it goes off that in the cutscenes feel kind of out of place IMO like with David’s death. While it is completely understandable why they never show us the aftermath, it can feel like a huge cocktease considering how horrible he was to us in the game and how the game was willing to show so much violence before that.
Part II does no such thing. You get to see how monstrous the act of killing Joel is by showing it to you close up, and even in a freeze frame in the end. The closest it does is not letting you see Nora’s wounds after being brutalized by Ellie, but even then the game is still immersive primarily due to the elements working in tandem with each other, like the music that gets louder and louder the more you beat Nora and you having to do the attacks yourself. It reminds me of Michael Haneke’s Cache (a strong, STRONG recommend by the way), where there are scenes of brutal violence that leave you to fill the blanks of how the violence is connected to story by stewing in those scenes where the violence happens, rather than the other way around. In Part II, the immersion is consistent throughout and I love it for that.
@@mackielunkey2205 I think this is one of the reasons the game is hard to digest for some people. It's brutal and the game exists in a depressing world and the game is depressing.
I personally love the atmosphere the game creates, it actively made me feel in line with the characters which is hard to pull off. I don't blame people who don't enjoy it but I feel like a lot of people write it off, labeling it as a simple revenge story when it's doing so much more.
What a great job explaining this. I had just finished the game again after having almost the exact same thoughts as you the first time you played along with many others. I just took on everyone’s opinions that was angry at the game aswell and was kinda even more miserable finishing it the first time. This 2nd time tho I felt like I was understanding like you were here, explaining it to myself as I went and it felt way better. Way better of a game the 2nd time around. Wild.
Great video dude! I just recently got a PS5 and bought the last of us part 1 and finally got to play a game I’ve always wanted to play, and it’s one of, if not the BEST game I’ve ever played overall. I unfortunately know the key plot points of Part II so I’ve avoided buying it but after watching your vid I can honestly say I want to play it. That’s for taking the time to make this!
The Joel death worked in my mind, because how you described him, is exactly how Ellie saw him, and that he is suddendly taken away makes you feel the pain + it goes down on tlou's realism, which we can also see with Jesse for example.
You deserve more subs this was great and I watched all 43 minutes of it.
Thank you! I really appreciate that!
I really respect you giving it another chance and attempted to understand the themes and motifs of the story. It isn’t perfect. It upset me at times. and it’s simply way too long (especially having to do days 1-3 as both characters). but even though it’s flawed, it’s ultimately a beautiful and tragic story that is real.
In the real world, we are not guaranteed anything, especially a happy ending. These characters are not heroes that deserve a hero’s death, they are survivors who fight and die untimely deaths just as the rest of the world.
Great video, man! New subscriber :)
I’m really surprised you have only 1000 subscribers!! you deserve way more subs and with this quality of videos you will get to 100k sooner.
I know the point is to be disgusted with what Ellie had become. To regret what the obsession with Abbie has done to her. I’ve played the game three times all the way through (2 regular games and one new game +) and every time I have never once thought that Ellie had gone too far or had made a mistake. I hated Abby for what she had done, and honestly I still do. I resonate deeply with Ellie’s hatred throughout the game and on my first playthrough I was so hurt by her inability to finish it at the last hour that I had to put the controller down and reflect on what had happened for a while. Even after 10 hours of playing as Abby and the humanization her and the Wolves get, I never felt sorry for her or wanted her to see her escape with Lev. I just didn’t. In my mind, the game wasn’t over until she was dead. So, in all, the ending left a sour taste in my mouth. The main conflict was left unresolved and Joel, who is one of my favorite characters in any media period, is forced to go unavenged. Not only that, but the game punishes you/Ellie for not giving up on Abby with the epilogue, where her life has essentially fallen apart. It’s bleak.
Gotta say you skipped over the Rattlers part because you said it wasn’t important…On the contrary that moment of hope that you hear in Abby’s voice after making the radio call was the most essential part of the not wanting Abby to die experience for me personally. At that moment I said to myself man I hope she survives this and ends up in another sequel because this can’t all be for nothing I muttered
There's a lot I wasn't able to cover, maybe in the future I'll make a separate video going further. Personally the rattler section felt very tacked on. It wasn't as strong as Seattle until you get to the ending.
@@TheGh0stType agreed but it was just a nice section of discovery with lev until inevitably it gets shut down. Personally I think the game is brilliant the perfect sequel and as much as we all just wanted more of the first game and I’m with you I went in completely blind nothing spoiled for me and I think that helped me accept it more
@@dereksmidl8352 it definitely was a journey and I am glad I was able to get over my initial judgment and play the game fully and as more time passes I think the more I accept it. Even since recording this I think my opinion of the game is more positive. With that said I hope this isn't where the story ends for these characters. I dont know what story they would tell but I selfeshly want more.
@@TheGh0stType agreed and I was afraid they’d ruin the first game by making a sequel and they excelled so so have faith in them to do it yet again somehow
The game sort of gives you this hopeless feeing at every end, so why would it be different for Abby?
Elie lost just about everything special she had, so why would Abby be different in this regard.
The prologue should have shown Abby reaching whatever other place she was heading towards, only to find out overrun and ransacked, without any shadow of hope. Her new mission, the thing she fought so “bravely” to acquire ends up being a dead end. She killed herself and that punk kid Lev with her actions, only slowly as they both are too injured to progress and they die a slow and painful death.
Naughty dog and Neil cuckman enjoy nihilism, right? What better way to nihilistically end their game as to make everyone suffer and have a shitty end.
Not only elie, but everyone. It is only fair, right?
None are good people, so none deserve a good ending. That’s their logic, so let’s be consistent.
Wow just an amazing video. I haven't played part 2 cause of how the story is and I didn't want the image of Joel and ellie ruined. But after watching your video I'm going to go play it. Thank you
Great work here dude. I loved the first game. Never played the second due to the negative feedback (life short, games long, time limited) this is the second long form review I've watched of it and you did a great job.
I still find the reaction to this game so interesting. I played without reading anything about it and I loved it, I even identified with Abby RE: having to forgive yourself for doing horrible things and masking pain with anger. I thought it was such an emotionally mature game. And I got so frustrated reading about it, especially because everyone kept saying it's a "revenge = bad" game which I thought was so reductive! It was so obviously about forgiveness to me. A friend of mine who also came around to the game later said if he had that perspective initially, he might've liked it better. It's incredible a fucking video game can illicit all this emotion and discussion though! Really excited to see where Part III goes. Great video!!
I totally agree. It wasn’t even necessary revenge is bad it’s more like revenge damages not only the person you seek revenge against but yourself and your loved ones. That PTSD is complex and can be all encompassing and not rational. I didn’t find Abby to be incredibly redeemable especially since at the end of the game she could have attempted a conversation or outright apology before or after the fight like you know exactly what Ellie is going through SAY SOMETHING.
What's funny is the same gamers who hate this game and think all of the positive reviews were paid for are also the same gamers who would say ''The LOU is great look at all the positive reviews''. If a game they like gets a good review then that reviewer is a good reviewer. If a game they don't like gets a good review then it's obviously a big conspiracy and that reviewer s cks.
@@williamgregg6339 Yea exactly! Like I had a friend who spouted off the same bs woke/revenge is bad/punishing players/etc but I'm like how far are you into the game AND THEY HADNT EVEN PLAYED IT just repeating reddit talking points
@@chelsieo1342 - Wow they admitted they didn't even play it? Usually they lie. Everyone was super excited for the game until they found out about Joel dying. Once they found out all of a sudden they are saying Abbey is a transexual and the game is woke and it will be bad. Then everytime it got a good review that review must be paid for. Someone should explain to them what a opinion is because they obviously don't know what one is.
Well in order to even try to have a conversation and think critically about the game in the first place, you first have to sift through the 99% of people hating the game for politically motivated reasons first. And unfortunately, most people just side with the initial mob rather than look and see things for themselves.
I understood from this that there are people who are so much more on board with Ellie's quest for revenge than I am. I started much earlier to doubt her actions and was much more ready to learn who the other side is. Even with the first fight between both of them at the theater, I was hoping to defeat Ellie, so that she has to stop before more lifes are destroyed.
All the hints you gave at what doesn't work for you usually show that you still weren't happy to see your perspective challenged for longer than absolutely necessary.
I'm also very wary of anyone asking to have Part III do Ellie justice. I don't want to play as her again. If she's going to have a chance at healing, going on another killing spree (even if it's not for revenge) is not going to help. Repeating again grizzled veteran story learning to take care of someone? Topping it of with Ellie gloriously sacrificing herself for a cure, invalidating the ending of Part I that brought Joel's downfall? I wonder if Naughty Dog will once again refuse to meet expectations to tie up everything with a nice bow.
When I first played this I was definitely more on ellies side rather than my second play through
@nos_astra 100% agree. I also wonder if your reaction to the end of Part I plays a role. I always hated killing all the fireflies as Joel, and even though I was devastated when he died, I wasn't shocked in the slightest. And I was also iffy on the whole revenge quest...when she separated from Jesse I was like, "what's the point anymore?"
So so curious about Part III. Agree that I don't really wanna play as Ellie either!
Sorry but, you fundamentally don’t understand why myself and many others hated this game
@@dickhanson957 and you don't understand his interpretation of the game, not everyone has to agree...
@@aroidpapa no, I do. And I agree with that interpretation. I just didn’t like it. It wasn’t because I thought Ellie’s quest for vengeance was justified.
Awesome video, thanks for your perspective. Very interesting I like watching it😊🎉
Great write-up and video...I remember being frustrated when this came out because I felt like so much of the anger toward it came from people who didn't understand(or didn't care to understand) what the game was trying to do. It's clear you really made a big effort to engage with the game what it's trying to do narratively and thematically, and I totally respect that in the end, you still might not like it, or may still be disappointed that it's not what you were hoping for.
There was such a focus around release on how Naughty Dog fucked up so bad because they made a "divisive" game. Divisive is not necessarily a bad thing. There's something to be said for just trying to nakedly calculate what will make the most people happy and then doing that, but that's not necessarily what every game, movie, book, etc., should try to do. If you make something that actually challenges expectations and actually takes some uncomfortable risks, it very well may end up divisive.
Anyway, ya got one more sub from me, I'll check out some of your other videos.
I hate this idea nowadays that art needs to be universally liked. Lowest common denominator bullshit like the Marvel movies. Good art asks questions without offering the answer. People who want art to answer itself are assholes.
always love seeing someone give this game the respect it deserves
You forget they lied in the original marketing campaign? That's the bs. Anyone can put whatever spin they want on the game. Sure it looks great graphically, game play mechanics, but no. They greatly damaged this franchise and lost a huge chunk of the fan base
@@tyemaddog bro thinks naughty dog is the first company to dishonestly market their product. COD is a money making Titan and any dishonesty they’ve had throughout the years is easily swept under the rug. That isn’t to say it’s not bad but as usual people just hating on naughty dog. You thought Joel was gonna be playable and he wasn’t. And the story this game was trying to tell us all the better for it
@@brandonclarke436
I don’t want to fuel whatever this is turning into but COD is nowhere near LOU. Don’t get me wrong, I love both games but story wise they don’t even play the same. It’s why when LOU initially many said they felt like they were playing a movie. That can’t be said for COD, regardless of installment I’m playing to shoot and carry out missions. For Last of Us, I’m playing for the story and it’s gameplay comes very close to second. COD doesn’t integrate in the same way as LOU. Both games did false marketing but Activisons’ reasons are not the same as ND.
@@alexwilliams2276 I 100% agree that COD is nothing like TLOU
@@brandonclarke436 If you agree TOU is nothing like COD then why did you bring it up???
It makes me so happy to see TLOU2 getting the love it deserves years after the outrage of its release. I'm a lover of dark stories that tell grim realities, so I was enjoying the game the entire time. I struggled to understand why people disliked the storytelling other than "Abby doesn't deserve sympathy because she killed Joel."
Excellent video. You've actually screwed my view of the game as well (and also gained a new sub)
So, I’m just seven minutes in, and I’m playing through for the first time with around the same experience as you’ve described. I’m on day three of Seattle, and I no longer want to kill Abby. She feels like a product of an absolutely insane environment, and from all the notes I’ve picked up, it sounds like Isaac needs to be the one taken out of time.
And that right there is emotional maturity. Good on you for taking a step back from the situation and giving it a 2nd pass from a position of empathy and objectivity.
This is quality content, I hope to see that subscriber count jump well over 1K very soon! Peace and Love
Xbox to pc. Never played the game but love the story. Thanks for your video(s), earned my subcribe and I love the passion you can hear in your voice. How i feel about metal gear solid
Love this game! Left me completely destroyed.... really hope the tv show does this justice in season 2.
masterpiece of a video, i hope you get recognition for this
Thanks so much I really appreciate it!
I agree
25:42 at this point in the game where the dread is kind of relieved, is where i started to somewhat like abby as a character, i think it shows that outside of the main events, she is likeable, and in general likeable
Everything you say from 41:52 on is exactly what I feel...I hated this game but now I'm just like whatever. Ultimately I don't like it but it is what it is, this is the direction they went with, and I'll just going on having part 1 be my favorite.
The first game was about love and the second about hate.. they sure did bring out that feeling
That was a lie Neil Druckmann said they’re both about love
@@TheJoker-bz3msYou’re gonna have to prove why the second game was about love. Because it’s most certainly not.
For me, both games are about how love is complicated. Love isn't magically always a good thing, it doesn't always makes us do nice things, it won't save us. Ellie's hatred for Abby was because of her love for Joel, Abby's hatred for Joel was because of her love for her dad. Both of them threw themselves into a meatgrinder for love and the hatred that came from that love.
@@beakfast6978 You don't go on a killing spree because the person they killed was someone you had no strong feelings for one way or another. The only reason Ellie did what she did was because she loved Joel, and the only reason Abby did what she did was because she loved her dad.
It's why the first trailer gave away that Joel was going to die: who else did Ellie care about so much that she was going to 'kill them all'?
The end of the story feels less like Ellie forgave Abbie and more like Ellie just gave up on revenge, realising how futile how this endeavor was and Joel would probably never would have wanted it from a start.
I really enjoy the breakdown. That was a very good video.
I havent really seen people discuss the credits of the game. Which is fair, most will full on skip them. That final scene with Ellie and Joel is so beautifully done, it hits hard and it is packed to the brim with emotion and fantastic performances.
But what the credits did for me built upon that even more. I was just sitting there staring at the credits, listening to the somber instrumental, and after so long, Ellie starts singing their song.
It hit me, I was surprised after so much wordless music that an actual vocal performance would happen and it make me well up a bit but I smiled. Then after a little while, Joel started singing and it just...such a beautiful surprise, I started sobbing in seconds.
Then they duet, it was beautiful. What a simple and incredible credit roll, packed with so much emotion that it hit me harder than the final scene. I'm glad I got to experience the game with no spoilers in 2023! Beautiful. To me. I know it's different for everyone.
I'm also glad I let those credits roll.
TLOU2 has so many layers. Definitely one of my favorite games and series. Good vid
Getting to the end was rough, but ultimately, I'm glad Naughty Dog took risks to go this route.
I'm a huge last of us fan. I have a fireflies tattoo on my forearm. I loved part 2 when it released. I didn't over think it. I just took it for what it was and it was really emotional
i have never connected with video's like these but with you i was completely the same as you the love i had for TLOU 1 and watching/ hearing what you were feeling and your opinion on the journey. I now feel like i understand it more as you do, but i am still not happy with the way they went, but like you said we dont get what we want. great video I am glad i gave it the time to watch. gave me some closure on TLOU 2
People want errors and happy endings, but sometimes life is just unexpected. I think the story is very real. People just kill and die. No hero moments.
This is probably the best video essay on tlou II I've seen. My conclusion is different, I absolutely love the game but I definitely understand not liking it that much.
That means a lot! Thank you! 🖤
I played this game 2 or 3 times now and watched a lot of videos about it, like reviews or interviews and I always liked or close to liking it, but your video opened my eyes a little more and I thank you for that. Like you said this video made me understand this game more. After all the videos I watched about this game, this was the best one.
Fun fact: I noticed something. When Ellie says ´´I don´t think I can ever forgive you for that, but I would like to try´´ , you could translate it to the players when they get to play Abby and learning to bond with her, that we should just try to forgive her. Anyway just a thought.
You’re the first creator that manages to capture into words how I felt about TLOU2. Except that I am still coming back to it every ~18 months to experience the misery and catharsis again. Liked & subscribed! ♥️
all those emotions is what makes this franchise an absolute masterpiece, i was thinking about plots they might make for part 3 and i idea of them taking away ellie from ya terrified me… them being able to make us feel like that about ellie means something my friend…
as someone who doesn't play games and hasn't played the last of us, i think the story itself is amazing.
it does makes me wonder if their going to explore this in season 2 of the tv series. I know it just got started and were waiting on episode 7 and it's early but because it's confirmed their making season 2 it makes me wonder how their going to handle this arc or story of this I wld love to know and wonder if die hard fans wld love the tv version of this game way more than the game itself.
I loved this game after my first run through. I’m glad they threw us a curve ball. I really hope they do one more.
Ii requires to have huge balls to be one of the biggest Devs in the market and pull off The Last of Us 2 as it was. You may not like the game for how the story went, but you gotta respect the team for doing this for sake of art. You wouldn't find this anywhere else.
i don’t know why but this game is always randomly on my mind
Great video thanks!
I wonder if there is someone that has played part 2 without playing the first game... What kind of impact or perspective does it projects? Is it a powerful enough story to stand on its own? How would be the feeling towards Ellie, Joel, Abby?