Absolutely. They're both fantastic for hard barrier penetration, while retaining enough energy to stop a threat. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@@ThePenetrationChannel you really needed 9mm also. I genuinely appreciate the test, and it's your time and money, and the results are very helpful. But you forgot the most important one . 9mm. I tell people extreme penetrator nine mm is good for any animal under 1200-1400 pounds. For defense. Obviously you would hunt with a 338 if you deal with a Kodiak bear or a trophy moose.
All three rounds have the same sectional density, the 357 Sig and 10 mm have about equal velocities. That means the 10 mm's extra 1 inch of barrel length was the difference maker.
Not necessarily true. Not trying to ruffle feathers. I'm just a very experienced in handloading. 10mm/357Sig/40s&w uses faster burning powder (like titegroup) , unlike the slower burners like H110 that 357Mag (not sig) use. With that faster burning powder, after like 4" the barrel actually absorbs energy. That's one reason a properly loaded round doesn't have a lot of muzzle flash. It burned and gas expansion wave is already on the steep decline. You're barrel length theory would be correct for slower powders (for mag pistols, and most rifles), but not for the fast burners.
@@jamessmith-ow1bf Again, not arguing here. Just relaying info I have collected in my velocity testing. I don't load .357sig, but I do load 10mm. Using Titegroup I get higher velocity with my M&P 10mm 4" barrel, than with my Colt Delta Elite 5" barrel. Using Autocomp (quite a bit slower burn rate), the velocity is slightly higher with the Colt.
@@jamessmith-ow1bf "Whatever I want to make it". That's ripe. Unwilling to learn form somebody in the game. Typical America these days. I have a background in ammunition manufacturing and ballistics, and have hand loaded for decades. Go ahead and keep believing your assumptions and others half baked opinions. Ignorance is bliss.
Just FYI, the 10 mm would have a power advantage over both 40 SW and 357 Sig even with equal length barrels... but aren't they all still so much fun to shoot? I was initially surprised to see that both the 357 Sig and 10 mm penetrated completely, but I had forgotten you were using that Underwood Extreme Penetrator ammo. That stuff hardly even deforms after hitting many types of hard surfaces.
It seems that any one of these with proper shot placement will penetrate the skull of a grizzly bear. The .357 sig seems to have done almost as well as the 10mm. I think instead of buying a 10mm, I will take my P-229 in .357 sig with x-treme penetrators and hardcast loads, and likely load both in the mag alternately and keep one in the pipe for 16 total with my extended mag. I am very accurate with that gun. I have a model 500 SW but it nearly breaks my wrist and I will likely only get one shot off, so I will likely sell that. I can be quickly repetitive and accurate with my P-229. Besides, it will be the back-up to a 12 gauge with slugs. I'll just have to depend on the .357 sig when I am actually in the river fly-fishing. Your other video through aluminum showed no real difference as well. Yes, the projectile is smaller but 16 .357 sig in the brain ought to stop a griz.
That was interesting I don't have a 357 Sig or a 10mm yet, But I do have a 40 S&W HK USP full size. For a vehicle firearm aka truck gun I think I would prefer the 357 Sig or the 10mm in case I were being attacked from cover. Right now I am carrying my M&P 45 ACP on me and the HK 40 S&W as a back up. Times are crazy and we all need to pay close attention to carrying and what we carry. Also what we use for home defense which in my case includes a 12 gauge Mossberg Shockwave with Winchester PDX-1 Defender slugs and a Sig Sauer P220 45 ACP. I am very happy to see you back on here and well. Please keep the videos heading our way. Peace To All!
it'd be cool to see some of the lighter faster extreme defenders in these tests as well cause they seem to do pretty well with barriers due to speed, where as the extreme penatrators really seem to penetrate better in soft tissue.
Love the channel. Love to see .357 SIG in there. I would like to see a comparison on penetration through car glass and/or a car door as far as deflection goes in a personal defense situation from inside a vehicle. Would also love to see 9mm Dillon as well!
I just found you! I'm subbing. Great video. I was already going to buy a 10 mm next. Some people say there's a big variety, but I don't see it. Just bought my very 1st 9 mm yesterday. Haven't even shot it yet (Rain). Like the way you set the test up.
Thanks for subbing. The 10mm is an excellent round. It really depends on what you want it for. In my opinion it is a bit of overkill for self defense against people. I carry 2 9mm handguns with me daily, and am completely comfortable with that caliber. However, if you often find yourself hiking or camping in predator territory, the 10mm is definitely the better option for that. Its always a good idea to own a variety of calibers. As seen with our recent ammo situation, I have always been able to find .40, and 10mm even when 9mm was nowhere in sight. Either way, thanks for exercising your 2nd amendment.
@@ThePenetrationChannel Oh, I am carrying a PPS .40 (Walther). Not many rounds although I have 3 magazines. I'm definitely trying to go to a 9 mm for carry. I have a Glock 21 which I'm pretty good with, and a Ruger Security 6 .357 magnum. Neither one of those are conceal carry material. At least not in the summer. I'm kind of a firearms junkie. I'd like to have a 10 mm just because it seems powerful and it exists. Thanks for your response.
I like that you added the core sires back strap on your 1.0 357 I think S&W should of put those on all the 1.0s I've added two to two of my 1.0 duty pistols
Try the 357 sig through a 5 inch (M&p 40 pro converted) or 6 inch (Glock 24 converted) or even a 16 inch (aero survival rifle or just right carbine)... would be very interesting to see the results.
The magazines were loose inside the grip causing wear on the notch that holds the mags in place.. eventually they wore out and started dropping out of the gun.
Sure. Here you go. I believe the issues I was having was due to me switching the mag release over to left handed. th-cam.com/video/64bhpNcb2Bw/w-d-xo.html
Maybe a little but the 10mm is more powerful than the .40 or 357 sig hands down. The penetration is maximized in the 357 sig due to its narrower profile not power level. If you compare the velocity per weight of each caliber the power differences are obvious.
Haven't gotten a video uploaded in quite some time. Been dealing with some of life's issues. I definitely plan to get some new content up soon though. Thanks for checking in.
I have a Glock 20 and it’s hard to shoot accurately if I shoot off a rest no problem so I know it’s me I only have 400-500 rounds so far but shot lots of bear loads in HSM and underwood and nothing even comes close the the underwood’s I have never had a malfunction I have used both my kkm and normal barrel I really want to get the drop in 357 sig barrel but can’t find it in stock anywhere
Interesting video as always. Still wish you'd work in a chronograph so we know the actual velocities involved in these tests. Manufacturer's listed velocities often aren't what you get in the real world - even if the test barrel length matches what you're shooting. Too many variables in play - barrel length, rifling type & design, altitude, temperature, range, etc.
the 357 sig is loaded right at about saami max. very good round. the 40 is loaded to only about 85%. good round but not what it could/should be. standard practice for ammo manufacturers nowadays
at 0.25 speed, frame by frame at 5:13 you can see an insect flying left to right very close to lens - thus looks big and goes out of frame instantly. Good eyes!
I've never had or shot an all steel 10mm. However, I have shot the XD, and Glock 20. The recoil on both are very similar, and very mild. Even with the Underwood loadings.
People can say whatever they want about barrel length but 10mm would have won either way. 10mm is superior to any other semi auto handgun caliber and those underwood extreme penetrators are badass
It's strange that everytime I see a 357 vs 10mm video the 357 always has the lowest grain? It's never a grain greater like they use with the 10mm. 357 has 142 grain, use it when compared with 10mm next time.
I'm disappointed that you fired the 2nd 10mm so close to the 1st that I imagine it went through already stressed fiberglass whereas the 2nd .357Sig was far enough away from the 1st that it met with mostly fresh undisturbed fiberglass. I believe this at least slightly biased the test in favor of the already favored longer barreled 10mm. I say retest!
I'd most rather be shot by the .357 Sig if I had a choice. The .40 cal has the greatest chance of staying inside the victim thus most likely to cause shock and trauma. One way to look at it is Conservation of Energy. There's no energy loss wiith the .40, whereas the other two calibers use energy to keep the round traveling beyond the target. If all you have in you is a hole, you may survive. If you have a red hot round stuck in you, survival is less likely. The miniball in the Civil War was a relatively slow round that shattered bone no matter where you were hit. It would blast your arm or leg clean off. Regardless of which round you choose, if the target survives outside your residence, even in your back yard, they can sue you for everything. Also, the .40 cal costs about 44 cents/rd. The .357 Sig is about $1.44/rd.
Unconventional. Suggestion; bolt a piece of clear laminate to each side to keep the projectiles in the target. They're not likely to damage it, and you can look inside the target from both sides to see what happened. And tighten up on the aim! Lol! Get those things separated by 3 or 4 inches so there's no chance it hit an area already weakened by the previous damage. I like it, though. Nice presentation
Another great video! Central Communist VA! Too true! Found it odd that Underwood 115g was only 1450? My 125g bjhp Underwood is 1475 and Underwood Range ammo 124g fmj is 1450 as well. I would’ve thought it would rate 1500+....nonetheless keep up the good work brother! Collect up the pumpkins here soon and lets do some hollowpoint testing. Fill them with jello LOL!!!
Probably because it's an all-copper bullet. Copper is a lot less dense than lead, meaning the bullet has to be longer for the same diameter & weight. When loaded to the same OAL, the longer bullet will take up more case volume and leave less room for propellant. Compare Cor-Bon's all-copper DPX ammo to their conventional jacketed lead JHPs for another example of this. The DPXs are always slower for the same cartridge & bullet weight.
Now you know why the 10 mm is not considered a big bore because it can only perform well with lighter grain bullets 170 grain and above its ineffective and inaccurate especially 200 grain and 220 grain bullets you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn door with them
Great video! Love the 10mm but the 357 Sig is such a good round too!
Absolutely. They're both fantastic for hard barrier penetration, while retaining enough energy to stop a threat. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
@@ThePenetrationChannel you really needed 9mm also. I genuinely appreciate the test, and it's your time and money, and the results are very helpful. But you forgot the most important one . 9mm. I tell people extreme penetrator nine mm is good for any animal under 1200-1400 pounds. For defense. Obviously you would hunt with a 338 if you deal with a Kodiak bear or a trophy moose.
My three favorite calibers, and each cartridge perform well as expected with the Underwood Ammunition, Extreme Penetrator.
A 1" barrel advantage adds approx. 50-100ft/lbs (
All three rounds have the same sectional density, the 357 Sig and 10 mm have about equal velocities. That means the 10 mm's extra 1 inch of barrel length was the difference maker.
Not necessarily true. Not trying to ruffle feathers. I'm just a very experienced in handloading. 10mm/357Sig/40s&w uses faster burning powder (like titegroup) , unlike the slower burners like H110 that 357Mag (not sig) use. With that faster burning powder, after like 4" the barrel actually absorbs energy. That's one reason a properly loaded round doesn't have a lot of muzzle flash. It burned and gas expansion wave is already on the steep decline. You're barrel length theory would be correct for slower powders (for mag pistols, and most rifles), but not for the fast burners.
@@skeet25s I know the 357 Sig even with fast burning powder gains velocity out of longer barrels. I think it is a safe bet that the 10mm does also.
@@jamessmith-ow1bf Again, not arguing here. Just relaying info I have collected in my velocity testing. I don't load .357sig, but I do load 10mm. Using Titegroup I get higher velocity with my M&P 10mm 4" barrel, than with my Colt Delta Elite 5" barrel. Using Autocomp (quite a bit slower burn rate), the velocity is slightly higher with the Colt.
@@skeet25s If you are talking about reloading that is a whole different world of whatever you want to make it.
@@jamessmith-ow1bf "Whatever I want to make it". That's ripe. Unwilling to learn form somebody in the game. Typical America these days. I have a background in ammunition manufacturing and ballistics, and have hand loaded for decades. Go ahead and keep believing your assumptions and others half baked opinions. Ignorance is bliss.
Legend has it that 10mm round is still circling the earth
And to this day, I wouldn't want to be in front of it. Thanks for watching.
I'm surprised I didn't hear any bleep-outs, when the table fell.😆
That said, good video.👍
Haha. My thoughts were full of expletives but I tried to keep it clean. Thanks for watching.
Just FYI, the 10 mm would have a power advantage over both 40 SW and 357 Sig even with equal length barrels... but aren't they all still so much fun to shoot? I was initially surprised to see that both the 357 Sig and 10 mm penetrated completely, but I had forgotten you were using that Underwood Extreme Penetrator ammo. That stuff hardly even deforms after hitting many types of hard surfaces.
It seems that any one of these with proper shot placement will penetrate the skull of a grizzly bear. The .357 sig seems to have done almost as well as the 10mm. I think instead of buying a 10mm, I will take my P-229 in .357 sig with x-treme penetrators and hardcast loads, and likely load both in the mag alternately and keep one in the pipe for 16 total with my extended mag. I am very accurate with that gun. I have a model 500 SW but it nearly breaks my wrist and I will likely only get one shot off, so I will likely sell that. I can be quickly repetitive and accurate with my P-229. Besides, it will be the back-up to a 12 gauge with slugs. I'll just have to depend on the .357 sig when I am actually in the river fly-fishing. Your other video through aluminum showed no real difference as well. Yes, the projectile is smaller but 16 .357 sig in the brain ought to stop a griz.
Would love to see some glass aluminum the wood for 357 sig, hollow point and extreme. Would love to know how they compare and stay together
That was interesting I don't have a 357 Sig or a 10mm yet, But I do have a 40 S&W HK USP full size. For a vehicle firearm aka truck gun I think I would prefer the 357 Sig or the 10mm in case I were being attacked from cover. Right now I am carrying my M&P 45 ACP on me and the HK 40 S&W as a back up. Times are crazy and we all need to pay close attention to carrying and what we carry. Also what we use for home defense which in my case includes a 12 gauge Mossberg Shockwave with Winchester PDX-1 Defender slugs and a Sig Sauer P220 45 ACP.
I am very happy to see you back on here and well. Please keep the videos heading our way. Peace To All!
Thanks for watching! Been awhile, but I'm excited to get some new vids up!
Good test.
Would like to see this with 9mm, 40 and 45
it'd be cool to see some of the lighter faster extreme defenders in these tests as well cause they seem to do pretty well with barriers due to speed, where as the extreme penatrators really seem to penetrate better in soft tissue.
I will have to try and get my hands on some. Thanks for watching.
Used to live in VA. Used to be a good gun state. Sorry to hear they have changed. I moved out west to AZ and couldn't be happier.
Yeah. The citizens need to put the right people in power. Hoping to turn this state red. Thanks for watching.
Awesome! I’ve been waiting for this one. Thx
Thank you for watching, and dropping a comment.
Would be cool to see them with Underwood hard cast too. Love these videos.
Thanks. All did really quite well. All things considered, any of the 3 will work.
Absolutely. All 3 of these particular calibers will give anyone or anything a bad day. Thanks for watching.
Love the channel. Love to see .357 SIG in there. I would like to see a comparison on penetration through car glass and/or a car door as far as deflection goes in a personal defense situation from inside a vehicle. Would also love to see 9mm Dillon as well!
Great idea! I'll have to take a trip to the junkyard.
It would be great to see how that Sig does with a equivalent barrel length to the 10mm. Thanks for the video
Extra inch of barrel gives little more velocity.. speed defeats barriers . Good test 👍
I just found you! I'm subbing. Great video. I was already going to buy a 10 mm next. Some people say there's a big variety, but I don't see it. Just bought my very 1st 9 mm yesterday. Haven't even shot it yet (Rain). Like the way you set the test up.
Thanks for subbing. The 10mm is an excellent round. It really depends on what you want it for. In my opinion it is a bit of overkill for self defense against people. I carry 2 9mm handguns with me daily, and am completely comfortable with that caliber. However, if you often find yourself hiking or camping in predator territory, the 10mm is definitely the better option for that. Its always a good idea to own a variety of calibers. As seen with our recent ammo situation, I have always been able to find .40, and 10mm even when 9mm was nowhere in sight. Either way, thanks for exercising your 2nd amendment.
@@ThePenetrationChannel Oh, I am carrying a PPS .40 (Walther). Not many rounds although I have 3 magazines. I'm definitely trying to go to a 9 mm for carry. I have a Glock 21 which I'm pretty good with, and a Ruger Security 6 .357 magnum. Neither one of those are conceal carry material. At least not in the summer. I'm kind of a firearms junkie. I'd like to have a 10 mm just because it seems powerful and it exists. Thanks for your response.
I like that you added the core sires back strap on your 1.0 357 I think S&W should of put those on all the 1.0s I've added two to two of my 1.0 duty pistols
Try the 357 sig through a 5 inch (M&p 40 pro converted) or 6 inch (Glock 24 converted) or even a 16 inch (aero survival rifle or just right carbine)... would be very interesting to see the results.
GREAT VIDEO, YOU ARE VERY EXACT AND PROFESSIONAL
Thanks for watching!!
What was the issue with the 10MM Glock 20? I’ve never had any issues with it. I love that round
The magazines were loose inside the grip causing wear on the notch that holds the mags in place.. eventually they wore out and started dropping out of the gun.
Curious how the lighter faster 357 sig would do on penitration.
I cant find the video you said you did with the g20 you were having problems with. Can you post a link pls?
Sure. Here you go. I believe the issues I was having was due to me switching the mag release over to left handed.
th-cam.com/video/64bhpNcb2Bw/w-d-xo.html
I wonder if barrel length on the XD has anything to do with differences in performance. Great vid.
Yes it did. It gave the 10mm an unfair advantage. I need to get a shorter barrel for it. Thanks for watching.
@@ThePenetrationChannel I'd have to say the difference would be negligible.
Maybe a little but the 10mm is more powerful than the .40 or 357 sig hands down. The penetration is maximized in the 357 sig due to its narrower profile not power level. If you compare the velocity per weight of each caliber the power differences are obvious.
Where’d you go man
Haven't gotten a video uploaded in quite some time. Been dealing with some of life's issues. I definitely plan to get some new content up soon though. Thanks for checking in.
10mm is hands down more powerful. Irregardless of barrel length, the 10mm pushes the heaviest bullet the fastest. It's just a matter of physics.
Liberty 10mm ammo out of a 6" barrel hits 2600+ fps, which means over 900 ft lbs of energy
Have you shot 9mm FMJ and AP on these fiberglass and if so, how did the 9mm fare?
Believe it or not, the 9mm keeps up fairly well with the 357 sig.
Great video...that 40 magnum (ah-hum 10mm) is awesome
Huh?
I have a Glock 20 and it’s hard to shoot accurately if I shoot off a rest no problem so I know it’s me I only have 400-500 rounds so far but shot lots of bear loads in HSM and underwood and nothing even comes close the the underwood’s I have never had a malfunction I have used both my kkm and normal barrel I really want to get the drop in 357 sig barrel but can’t find it in stock anywhere
Wanna sell that MP357? 😬 I almost prefer the gen 1s. If it's a late model G1. Great vid!
Wassup pops. Didn't know you had a 10mm. Representing from Hillsborough county ✊🤘
Haha. But of course. No collection is complete without a 10mm.
Great video
Interesting video as always. Still wish you'd work in a chronograph so we know the actual velocities involved in these tests. Manufacturer's listed velocities often aren't what you get in the real world - even if the test barrel length matches what you're shooting. Too many variables in play - barrel length, rifling type & design, altitude, temperature, range, etc.
the 357 sig is loaded right at about saami max. very good round. the 40 is loaded to only about 85%. good round but not what it could/should be. standard practice for ammo manufacturers nowadays
Nice video. Didn't know you were from VA. Greetings from Hanover County!
5:10-5:17 *(left side of screen)*
*So nobody saw that random beam of light dash pass?* 🤔
Haha. Never noticed that myself. Looks like a flying rod.
at 0.25 speed, frame by frame at 5:13 you can see an insect flying left to right very close to lens - thus looks big and goes out of frame instantly. Good eyes!
@@clauzone03 *an insect?.... what insect shines that bright in the day time?*
When’s Smith&wesson m&p Gona make a 10mm
Haha. Been waiting on that. An M&P10
Would be sweet!
They use too heavy a grain in .40, the sweet spot for .40 is between 150 and 165. Get that mug closer to 1300-1350 FPS. Thats the sweet spot imo.
You lost me when the table fell😂
Well done sir, thank you for your efforts, great info.
Thanks for watching!
how is the recoil on the xd compared to a steel gun
I've never had or shot an all steel 10mm.
However, I have shot the XD, and Glock 20. The recoil on both are very similar, and very mild. Even with the Underwood loadings.
@@ThePenetrationChannel THANK YOU for the information I like your videos have a great weekend cheers
Where can I get 9mm ammo from . I’m from NC.
I have been using ammoseek.
Its pricey but you can find it.
@@ThePenetrationChannel thanks 🙏🏾
another good video ... thanks ....
People can say whatever they want about barrel length but 10mm would have won either way. 10mm is superior to any other semi auto handgun caliber and those underwood extreme penetrators are badass
The 10mm hole was so much bigger then the 357 sig on the first test
You're using high-end ammo try using white box Winchester or Remington.
10mm is the king is handgun rounds anything under Magnum and a close second is the 357 sig. The only two calibers I bet my life on
22 magnum counts
.357 Sig felt bad for the 10mm, and took a backseat this time around. Hahaha!
Well the 10mm also had a 1 inch longer barrel for added velocity. Thanks for watching.
Everyone knows the 10mm packs more energy than the 357 sig which is just a .40 s&w with a 9mm bullet.
And thats why i carry 10mm in the woods
It's strange that everytime I see a 357 vs 10mm video the 357 always has the lowest grain? It's never a grain greater like they use with the 10mm. 357 has 142 grain, use it when compared with 10mm next time.
10MM FOR THE WIN!!!
I'm disappointed that you fired the 2nd 10mm so close to the 1st that I imagine it went through already stressed fiberglass whereas the 2nd .357Sig was far enough away from the 1st that it met with mostly fresh undisturbed fiberglass. I believe this at least slightly biased the test in favor of the already favored longer barreled 10mm.
I say retest!
You need to add another tablespoon baking powder and another 2 teaspoons of vanilla and things will work out OK 🤣
I'd most rather be shot by the .357 Sig if I had a choice. The .40 cal has the greatest chance of staying inside the victim thus most likely to cause shock and trauma. One way to look at it is Conservation of Energy. There's no energy loss wiith the .40, whereas the other two calibers use energy to keep the round traveling beyond the target. If all you have in you is a hole, you may survive. If you have a red hot round stuck in you, survival is less likely. The miniball in the Civil War was a relatively slow round that shattered bone no matter where you were hit. It would blast your arm or leg clean off. Regardless of which round you choose, if the target survives outside your residence, even in your back yard, they can sue you for everything. Also, the .40 cal costs about 44 cents/rd. The .357 Sig is about $1.44/rd.
That's not how it works. Tissue destruction, blood loss is what kills. 2 holes bleed more than 1.
Unconventional.
Suggestion; bolt a piece of clear laminate to each side to keep the projectiles in the target. They're not likely to damage it, and you can look inside the target from both sides to see what happened.
And tighten up on the aim! Lol! Get those things separated by 3 or 4 inches so there's no chance it hit an area already weakened by the previous damage.
I like it, though. Nice presentation
Another great video! Central Communist VA! Too true! Found it odd that Underwood 115g was only 1450? My 125g bjhp Underwood is 1475 and Underwood Range ammo 124g fmj is 1450 as well. I would’ve thought it would rate 1500+....nonetheless keep up the good work brother! Collect up the pumpkins here soon and lets do some hollowpoint testing. Fill them with jello LOL!!!
Probably because it's an all-copper bullet. Copper is a lot less dense than lead, meaning the bullet has to be longer for the same diameter & weight. When loaded to the same OAL, the longer bullet will take up more case volume and leave less room for propellant. Compare Cor-Bon's all-copper DPX ammo to their conventional jacketed lead JHPs for another example of this. The DPXs are always slower for the same cartridge & bullet weight.
Underwood could load that 357 sig at least 100 fps faster maybe 200 and stay within pressure.....
Nice job here too..
Tripod for camera.
.357 Sig WON.... bc 10mm had 5.25" barrel. That was an Unfair advantage Bigtime...
That 5.3" barrel would give the advantage to the 10mm. Would it not?
I just cannot afford shooting at $.85 a round
I know that feeling. Thanks for watching.
First
I knew this test was real when he picked up the xd said top center and missed to the side by inches.
Don’t need no political commentary.
Now you know why the 10 mm is not considered a big bore because it can only perform well with lighter grain bullets 170 grain and above its ineffective and inaccurate especially 200 grain and 220 grain bullets you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn door with them