It is refreshing to see real integrity in testing. The same make of gun, the same type and most commonly used size of ammo, and the same barrel length. Absolutely no bias or bullshit. I have just become a subscriber.
Exactly. It's all about giving people choices, like in any other market. Getting shot with a .380 is gonna stop you on your tracks as much as a 45 will.
@@spicecrop He used regular green box ammo for all the guns to keep it real . A lot of people like to use 9mm +p or +p+ and normal ammo for all the other guns calibers in comparison test .
@@pmorin313 Of course 357 sig is superior. Nobody would argue that. But that was hardly my point. I'm referring to using 115 gr. 9mm Instead of 124 gr. for a more standard comparison.
This. Every single test I see like this when people test out 40 S&W, they always use 180gr rounds for some reason. The most common rounds carried in 40, especially for defensive loads are either 155 or 165 loadings. Those can get up to and sometimes over 1200fps. I want to see one of these tests where they don't use slow 180gr range ammo. I don't think it'll do as well as the 357 Sig, but it'll do better than the slow 180gr rounds.
My .40 is loaded with Federal HST Tactical 180 gr. jacketed hollow points. Longest shot I'll need to take in my house is 10 yds. 1000 fps muzzle velocity, 400+ ft. lbs. force, expansion rate of 100 - 150% I just want stopping power not to take out walls. As to the .40 cal - 10 mm argument the best description I can remember is to think of the 10 mm as a .40 magnum since the difference is 10 mm is longer so it holds more powder.
@@benn454 for sure. People need to think about how they will use their weapons. I have 3, a tactical 12 gauge, .40 m&p shield and my new sd9ve. Buckshot in the 12, 180gr. tactical in the .40 and since I just got the 9mm i'm looking for tactical for that. at the range i practice at 10 yds because that is average range to any point of entry into my house 12 ga i keep a full choke tube for a 2.5 inch pattern @10 yds. these people think their the next lone ranger or something. know your field of fire and practice that using the most stopping power you can get your hands on unless you've got king kong or godzilla in your area an S&W 500 loaded with 700gr. is not needed
The video was priceless, it clarifies and reaffirms what different calibers can really do... Thank you for taking time, spending money and effort to bring this knowledge out to public.
Antoua B Doesn't clarify anything other than he should try a lighter grain 45 like 185. He's uses the heaviest grain bullet for the 45 and a lighter one for the 9mm. Other valid tests will show different than what this guy's video is showing.
Why would he use +P ammo in .45 when he didn't mention using +P in any of the others??? You sound like exactly the type of guy you are accusing him of being, except you have .45 tattooed on your ass, and seem butt hurt because whatever caliber YOU invested in (financially and apparently emotionally) did not appear to perform well in this unscientific and rather pointless comparison. Frankly unless he is testing specifically for aluminum barrier penetration, this review doesn't prove much of anything. Even if he was testing specifically for aluminum barrier penetration, he would need to do an even comparison of several shots from each weight of each caliber to gather any meaningful data to draw conclusions from. I wasn't going to comment at all except you seemed like a dipshit who is oblivious that you are projecting your own weird childish hangups on another poster. "My caliber didn't perform well in this video thereby upsetting my fragile psyche.... Waaaaahhh..... my pussy hurts."
You won't be disappointed! I have a 9mm barrel for my Springfield XD 357 Sig as well as a 5" tactical barrel in 357 Sig. Sticks our about 1" from the end of the slide.
Do you want to hit everything behind your target too? 40-45 seemed best for only killing bad guy, and not karen in accounting on the other side of the building through two walls.
Secret service uses this caliber for a reason! The best performing semi-auto caliber period. They want a bullet that STOPS THE THREAT NOW! Not minutes later from blood loss (black Talon) but NOW. Unfortunately too many in the industry include deaths by blood loss in how "effective" a defensive round is but that bad guy who died an hour later in the hospital can still kill dozens until they drop. Effective bullets stop threats IMMEDIATELY as possible. For some reason the high velocity 357 mag (revolver) and 357 sig (semi auto) do this more often than the other competitors. I want those that write articles about "one stop shot" percentages to NOT include subjects as a successful stop unless they went down immediately. That's real world!
What a test!!!! I guessed the 9 and 357 would penetrate more. This should clarify a lot of arguments regarding penetration. Also to remember the 9 is to produce casualties, 45 to stop inside the cavity, the 40 to hit harder than the 9, stop in body cavity and the 357 sig designed to penetrate barriers, produced casualties and achieve characteristics similar to the motherland round .357 magnum
Very good video. I like that all rounds had the same length of barrel. I still like the 45 ACP. It only penetrated the first sheet and dimpled the second sheet, but all the mass was transferred into the first two sheets. Transfer of mass into flash is easy, over penetration in an urban environment is always a concern.
So, for home defense, 40s&w or 45acp (w/ extended mag) to put a big hole in the bad guy without killing your neighbors. 357sig as your car/truck gun. 9 for concealed carry (less recoil for follow-up accuracy and relatively higher capacity mag).
uhhhh......it only demonstrates what a FMJ bullet will do....it doesn't demonstrate what hollow points....underwoods....or critical duty bullets will do. So that conclusion is only useful if all you use is FMJs.
Personally I'm a 10mm guy myself, but .45 ACP is still fun as hell to shoot and and the ammo is cheap to buy as well. If you really want to see a .45 ACP kick some serious ass, get yourself a .45 ACP carbine because I really enjoy plinking stuff with my .45 carbine.
Yup, Charles Parr. I recall the foo-fa-rah of the Beretta 92FS (9mm) and the military transistion (in the late-'80s.) Then the USMC decided: "NOPE. We want the KNOCK-DOWN (of the 45ACP.)"
Great video! Run this again and keep this series going with different types of bullets. Bullet shape plays a big part in these tests as we know and it would be cool to see how they perform
I started with 45, went to 40, after 50 years of shooting selected on 9mm, price, availability, value and ease to shoot in small cancelled use and possible use in trading stock (9mm is the most commonly used and sought after when desperate) so your vid was great, there is more then pentation to consider, good luck out there
Good video! This test doesn't surprise me. Back in 2000 when my department adopted the 357 SIG we instructors did a similar test using a thick "bullet proof" Lexan window panel. The results were very similar to this test.
He should try 45 Super, 40 Super, 460 Rowland as well but like the 10mm, those are primarily niche cartridges that cater to a specific audience. The again, the vast majority of 10mm is little more than warm 40 S&W so what's the point.
10mm can push heavier bullets faster than .40 due to the longer case. In range ammo, 10mm power is about the same as .40, but self defense and hunting ammo are much hotter. That being said, 9mm is perfectly acceptable for self defense with modern expanding bonded jacket bullets. It's cheaper to practice with and follow-up shots are going to be faster. And you get more shots in your magazine if you live in a free state that doesn't nerf the standard-sized magazines. Since I live in Communist-ruled California, I like .40, .45, and 10mm since I am limited to 10 round magazines.
John Shalamskas doubletap and winchester make the strongest 40 ammo (ranger t's) theyre loaded like a 357 fmj. the doubletap are jacketed cast lead HPs. shot a hog in the head with the 200gr version it was sticking out the backside of the skull. cant say the same from my 135gr fmj 357 that bounced off the same area different hog
This test verifies 357sig is superior, penetrating aluminum. I'm pretty sure it is also superior penetrating humans. No matter how heavy their clothes are. Have been considering a g19 for a while now and about a month ago started considering a g 32. I would feel well armed with both but maybe better armed with the 357sig.
Cain Ammons this test is a demonstration of the penetration capabilities of these calibers. I used fmj ammo to show this. you really don't have to worry much about over penetration when using self defense ammo (hollowpoints).
You’d get to practice more with the glock 19 since 9mm ammo is much cheaper than 357 sig. the more practice the better your aim and that’s often the deciding factor in a life or death situation, who has the better aim not the bigger cartridge. Also 9mm pistols have a larger capacity than the 357 sig.
Shooting more is always a valid argument. However, that has a lot more to it then just ammo cost. Argument of "holds more ammo" is negated by your argument for better marksmanship thru more practice! The difference between 17 rounds and 15 rounds if nil. The difference between a 357 and 9 mm round is MUCH more of the "winning factor" then 2 extra rounds! Ditched my EDC G19 for the G32 because if every shot counts the best caliber is obvious. Try one and move up to the front seat of the bus - better view from up here :- )
I said the same thing! For the 9 and 357 sig, he used the lighter grained bullets. There's even 185 grained 45 acp's by Remington. Still, I luv this guys channel and his penetration tests! One of the best on The Tube actually! 💪🏾
Right. But energy transfer and cavitation is king when you’re shooting meat bags. Penetration is of course still critical as is location. The .357 Sig really surprised me!
My uncle is a retired police officer and carries a 45 for the stopping power it has. For me is to heavy. But I liked to have more stopping power than the 9 and no over penatration like the 357 is why I have 40. I tested the 40 and 9 on a 2x4 wood board and the 40 did better. You can say what ever you like but I will Stay with my 40
@william terry a myth? So you're saying a high velocity round is equal to a heavier round? One goes clean through as he keeps coming or falls forward. The other breaks bone and pushes him back.
Just Be You are you saying a 9mm that hits bones won’t break them, and a .45 will not only stop someone’s forward momentum, but will actually push them back? There is no semi auto handgun cartridge that will stop someone’s forward momentum. 300 win mag won’t even stop your forward momentum, much less push you back. Stopping power, as in it hits with enough force to change your momentum is a myth. Stopping power as in, it has enough energy to reliably kill your target instantly with a center mass hit is not a myth, but no semi auto pistol cartridge will do that with energy alone, you have to hit the spine, which means you need enough penetration to get the bullet into/thru the spine. A real world example to consider. East Texas deer are pathetic, 100 lbs is a good east Texas whitetail. 100 lbs east Texas whitetail don’t take a step or two back even when you hit them with 165 grain 30-06 ballistic tips. That round is carrying 4-6 time more energy than .45 acp, and most men are pushing 200 lbs. If a 30-06 can’t push a 100 lb deer around, a .45 acp certainly isn’t going to push a 200 lb man around
I never owned a .357sig, but it was a solid Idea and I am sorry it did not take off better. I have owned 10mm's and I am happy that they are getting more attention these days.
cardude1992 well not quite, the highest velocity had the most penetration. If you made a .45 acp bullet fly at 1400fps it would go through barriers too, but I don't think you can do that with .45 acp brass safely.
MrVOxMOx you're basically describing 44 magnum. Pretty sure that would've performed best. I shot a deer last year, facing me, with a 240gr xtp@1500. It went all the way through lengthwise and came out his butt. None of the other calibers here would do that bc a heavier projectile retains more of its energy. Check out kentucky ballistics. He likes to shoot tough things with guns from the men's department lol.
@@MrVOxMOx Actually you can go higher (not 1,400 fps though). The Sierra manual has loadings specifically for certain revolvers that can handle higher pressures, showing an increase in velocity of approx 200 fps faster than a .45 auto pistol such as mil-spec .45s. You can not safely use those loads in any semi-auto!
Great penetration test! thank you. I just wonder how this relates to the stopping power? For example, will the slower and less penetrating .45 be more destructive than the more penetrating 9mm and .357sig? Conventional wisdom says yes of course. In gel tests the internal destruction of .45 is scary.
The only issue I have with the 357 sig is recoil and noise. It’s very snappy so keeping a hold of it during rapid fire exercises is quite unpleasant. I still prefer the 45 acp but it’s very heavy especially if you’re carrying a lot of ammo. I guess what I’m trying to say is there are pros and cons to all of them, so carry what you like and don’t sweat the small stuff.
While we are arguing over grains and calibers and "mine is bigger than yours" lets remember that all calibers are not equal. Not supposed to be. If nothing else this video establishes what you will be getting from your typical Wal Mart ammo shelf. And for the record, I carry the 40s&w and despite the fact that it stopped at plate 2, I will still carry it. We know that against an unarmored human target, all these will get the job done. And stop with all the hate. Us gun nuts have to stick together and share what we know. Comment section started to look like some damn SJWs B.S.
Haha. This is true. I respect all these calibers, for they will surely do what they were intended to do. My favorite is the 357 sig, or 10mm. Although, I carry a 9mm daily with confidence. Thanks for watching.
The 40 caliber ammo also had a flat nose unlike the others which were rounded and would obviously slow it down more quickly. I also have a 40 for my home with three 16 round magazines and a lazer light.
This was a nice video to stumble across. Personally i carry a sig pro 2022 chambered in .357sig. I bought the .40 barrel for it, but it has been in my closet pretty much the whole time.🤣🤣🤣. Love my 1911's but my sig sure does a great job especially over the longer shots at the range. Please do more of these!
I keep telling people that the 357 Sig is a brutal round...the fps and foot lbs. are undenialbe... Forget the 9 and step up to the king of penetration...nice vid, thanks.
Yeah forget the cost and availability while you are at it. I love 357, but it's too expensive and not enough availability compared to 9mm Plus there are much better rounds than 115 ball white box bullshit.
@@spicecrop There are a few suppliers online that carry 357 Sig for very reasonable prices. Check out AIM surplus, they have a box of 50 for approx $18. On top of that, reloading makes the 357 Sig extremely cheap!
Brutal?...not the word I'd use. Dangerous, Yes. but where did the energy go..straight thru. No knock down. The .45 had all 900ft-lbs delivered to the subject. ...same with the 40. Shooting thru car doors? sure .375 does.. but you just killed the passenger too.
Good test that shows the .357's benefits for getting through barriers. Not only is it the highest-energy load in this lineup, it focuses that energy into a smaller frontal area than the .40 & .45. This is why the .357 SIG can even beat the 10mm Auto in penetration tests, despite the 10mm's extra energy for loadings of similar relative "heat". Couple comments about your methods though. First, multiple shots per caliber would have provided more robust test results. Second, it would have been awesome to see chronograph data for each shot so that we could more accurately compare velocity, kinetic energy, and specific energy. Even if you don't have a chrono, a mention of the manufacturer's rated velocity of each load would have been better than nothing. For those interested, here are Winchester's muzzle velocity & energy numbers (no mention of test barrel length) along with calculated specific energy: Cartridge - MV - KE - SE 9mm* - 1140 fps - 358 ft-lb - 3616 ft-lb/in^2 .357 SIG - 1350 fps - 506 ft-lb - 5112 ft-lb/in^2 .40 S&W - 1020 fps - 416 ft-lb - 3310 ft-lb/in^2 .45ACP - 835 fps - 356 ft-lb - 2219 ft-lb/in^2 *There are several options for WWB 9mm 115gr FMJ; I took a guess at USA9MM.
The most effective bullet is one that dumps its energy into the target, not one that zips through and disappears into the distance. What this test told me was that if I want the shortest incapacitation time in an assailant, use a .40sw or 45acp.
Nice test man, the most honest so far, same barrel lenght , same ammo, by manufactor, same targets,, instead of , Fmj for mi 45, but only having soft points for my 30-06 so ...
.40 w/ 165 grain fmj round nose would be my choice for penetration test " more velocity then .45 & more knock down punch then 9mm " same used in FBI test" & goes thru outboard boat motor"
the 40S&W was designed to not to over penetrat in cars walls but to just penetrate to the point to take down a suspect and not cause collateral damage to civilians in other cars or through walls
Francis Allen this is true but it doesn't take into account that not everyone involved in a shootout will stand out in the open. They will hide behind things like cars.
Francis Allen That is totally untrue. The .40 smith and wesson was ''designed'' to reduce the amount of recoil of the 10mm. Because too many agents were having trouble qualifying, due to the recoil of the 10mm. So the .40 was just a compromise. It offers adequate tissue disruption, penetration, and barrier resistance, while having manageable recoil. But it was not ''designed'' for anything other than less recoil than a 10mm.
Metal is ductile and sticky. The stickiness is proportional to the mass of metal that is broken/separated. The reason why .40 and .45 penetrate less metal is that they need to piece through more metal circumference and mass! 9mm and .357 only piece through 90% line length (80% mass) of .40 goes through, and .40 only pieces through 90% line length (80% mass) of .45 pieces through. In other words, .357 only needs to tear down 90% of metal molecular binding force from each metal plate (you may translate the circle to a straight line, .357 needs to divide a metal plate that is 90% in length compared to .40). In addition, .357 only needs to push 80% mass ahead compared to .40. These factors contribute to its penetration depth but not the energy measured in ft-lbs. Finally, .357sig has larger energy measured in ft-lbs. Here is a quote, in all cases .357 sig has larger ft-lbs than .40sw: At 125 grains, the .40 S&W maxes at about 469 ft/lbs compared with 564 ft/lbs for the .357 sig At 180 grains, the .40 S&W maxes at about 520 ft/lbs compared with 524 ft/lbs for the .357 sig At 140 grains, the .40 S&W maxes at about 415 ft/lbs compared with 568 ft/lbs for the .357 sig
Biggest take away here for me is that the .40 and .45 transfer a higher percentage of their energy into their intended target. The smaller two 9mm's will over penetrate a soft target but hit a target behind a car door or some intermediate barrier icluding layers of clothing. Interesting data.
I just watched yesterday a cinder block test with a 9mm, .40 and .45 acp. All rounds penetrated the first wall of the block. All rounds were stopped by the second wall without breaking it. We need to build our homes from cinder blocks or solid pour concrete!
I think if you want an apples to apples comparison of calibers, you shouldn't use the light end of the spectrum in bullet weight in the 9mm and .357sig then use the high end of the spectrum in .40s&w and .45acp. Do this test again using 155 or 165 grain .40s&w and 180 grain .45acp, then the results can be measured evenly.
Children stop Fighting. I carry a 40 all the time 9, 357 over penetration 45, 40 wouldn't kill my neighbor. But you know what all of them will kill the bad guy. Great video.
I carry a 9, solely because the cost to practice and it was my first, I prefer 45 for pistols and 357 for revolvers but rifles take the cake, in which I like the 7.62x39
The military used to do a test, I'm not sure if they still do, where if the round will penetrate a 3/8" piece of plywood its considered a possible lethal shot (obviously some factors as to where the shot hits, body armor, etc) .45acp was still considered "lethal" at 400 yards out of a SBR and 200 yards out a 1911 hand gun. I'm glad to see a comparison like this done with everything as close as possible only changing the caliber.
Exactly. This test was only to show the potential penetration capabilities of each caliber. Not to demonstrate the terminal ballistics inside of a soft target.
@POOR PIRANO It's not like 40fps difference. Most 180gr rounds run at like 900-950 fps whereas 155 and 165 grainers can hit 1200 and sometimes higher with hot loads. All these 40 tests I see, the person always uses slow 180gr rounds when the most common carry rounds are 155 and 165gr.
Totally agree in regards to the 180 grain .40 S&W. We tested and issued 155 grain JHP @ ~ 1150 f/s. It performed quite well for us. We received a number of calls from police departments that had experienced failures to stop with the 180 grain JHP. After I re-retired I kept track of a local sheriff’s department’s experience with the 155 grain JHP .40. In the first year there were 3 one shot stops. Sadly, they inadvertently switched to 180 grain JHP and the first shooting demonstrated that it was a mistake. Subject who was attacking a deputy was shot at point blank distance 3 times in the chest with 180 /40 S&W. Subject ran 50 yards and sat down against a tree. When backup officers arrived subject was complaining about having troubling breathing. When EMT’s arrived he was no longer breathing. In fairness to ammunition manufactures I understand that there have been significant improvement in hollow point design. Still, I truly believe that the 155 or 65 JHP would be a better choice.
New to your channel, liked this vid. Same guns, same barrel lengths and same manufacturer of ammo, you are already far above many of the tests and comparisons I watch here on youtube. New sub just for the effort and attention to detail. As far as the bullet weight arguments I see going on, well that is just more reason to make more vids, no? Thanks.
Grey Beard thanks for the kind words and the sub. I have an Underwood ammo Extreme Penetrator test planned for this weekend. 140gr for the .40 S&W, and 115gr for the 357 sig. Stay tuned. thanks for watching!
Grey Beard yeah. actually for my personal carry, I use 9mm Federal HST 124gr hollowpoints. I would never carry those Extreme Penetrator rounds for self defense.
he used the most common bullet weights for each round. You could test hundreds of bullet weights snd velocitys if money and time were unlimited. This was a pretty good test, same guns same ammo. But hey feel free to do your own test with the ammo of your choice and make sure you post the video for all to see.
@@winehead99 180gr is not the most common for the 40. The most common, especially in carry ammo is either 155 or 165 gr rounds. 180gr usually only hit like 900fps whereas the 155 and 165 can hit around 1200fps. It's true. These testers for some reason always use the heaviest 40 and 45 rounds for penetration tests when it's known that speed is what allows for more penetration yet they choose the heaviest 40 and 45 rounds and the lightest or close to lightest 9mm rounds.
I'm a big proponent of .357 SIG, there's a reason why the US Secret Service use it (SIG P229). However, you should've used a 165gr in the .40 S&W. Great video anyway. 👍
Shoulve used 185 in the .45, also. He used the lightest round on 9mm, but heaviest on the higher calibers. Still a great test, though. I know a lot of people hate on the .40, but i really like it, same terminal ballistics as a .45, with twice the kick, haha.
@@the.living.man. I like a .45. But many factors go into the "perfect" bullet. I like .40 because of it's superior capacity over the .45 and it's more powerful than a 9mm. I also like the .40's penetration capability. But I ain't no expert.
@@jeramyw yeah, same, although with the .40, follow up shots are not as fast aswith the 9mm, my USP .40 kicks harder than my USP.45, and can only carry one more round, so with that particular setup, i favor the .45. But my P30 .40 carries the same astheUSP and conceals pretty decent, so i like a .40 there, whereas stopping power is still important, in my opinion. Nothing wrong with a 9mm, just too many videos of people fighting through it for me to be comfortable with. A great defensive caliber should not penetrate 2 .25" pieces of aluminum separated by an 1.5" spacing. You want to get into the thorastic cavity, and deal and create a shockwave, not pierce through with ultimate penetration, unless its a rifle round designed to yaw and tumble, like a 5.56. Yet, all the keyboard warriors undoubtedly look at this and think a .357 sig is superior. .40 concealed, .45 open/service, 5.56 truck gun. Sorry for the book, i agree with you completely.
@@the.living.man. 9mm is ultimately tamer on recoil, yes. However with proper training you can speed it up. .40 S&W 165 grain HST does like going through things like walls, cars, windshields, and so on. 357 Sig is interesting. Although, .40 caliber projectiles can be used in .40 S&W, 10mm Auto, 10mm Magnum, and 38-40 WCF. That last one was a cowboy round made in the 1870s. It was the second most common lever action and revolver combo round back then behind 44-40 WCF. .45 Colt had a wimpy rim so lever action extractors couldn't grab initially. A Ruger GP100 Lipseys model would be a superb host for all those 40 calibers. Yugo M67 7.62x39 yaws as well. I wish to find a modern non corrosive substitute that's not so expensive.
I see now why the state Highway Patrol likes the 357 Sig , and maybe so if they need to shoot at at car , we'll I guess this video gives the answer to that question
I have all four calibers, the 45 may have not penetrated as much but it dumped all its energy on the second plate. 45 for my cc. And .357 sig for drilling holes in my projects when I cant find my drill bit!
This test was very eye opening, I would have thought that the .40 would have out perfomed the 9mm. Really suprising to see a real world test. I would love to see the same test on balistic gelatin, or a pork shoulder roast with hollow points, and a denim outside layer? I wonder if the results would change in summer temperatures? But still very impressed with the 9mm??
but sometimes over penetration is or can be a bad thing I would still trust my .40 or .45 to stop an intruder without over penetration then I would with a 9mm but it is surprising for sure.
@@brandondavis4306 Over penetration is overrated. Unless you are shooting into a crowd, but who would do that anyway? After a .40/.45 enters then exits a body just exactly how much energy is still there to be lethal? Has anyone ever even bothered to check? I haven't seen anything on over penetration, it's just always mentioned as an afterthought. I would love to see a test that looks at velocity after 9" of ballistic gel.
Only if ammo manufacturers stop downloading 357SIG to the same level as 9mm/40 (35k psi!!), it would have made through at least 1 more layer at proper 40k psi.
Actually, the 357 SIG specs in Europe call for a maximum average pressure of 44,000 psi, but here in the USA, SAMMI specs down rate it to 40,000 psi.I don't have a clue as to why.
While I also suspect that there could have been some kind of pussification of American 357SIG, it is not advisable to compare two numbers directly because of different test configurations, namely different point of measuring pressure and whether transducers are exposed to gas or not. SAAMI and CIP each have their own testing configurations hence the different readings of (hopefully, and I mean it :) very close actual working pressures.
Probably, which makes me sad. Because IMO that's no reason to download a purpose-designed round. Gun manufacturers are at fault for taking 9/40 gun and just shoving in a 357SIG barrel when in reality they should have designed a sturdier gun for the SIG cartridge.
i_hate_cars you are trolling right.SIG SAUER, the part inventor of the ROUND also manufactures a very reliable GUN to use the round in. I mean like I told all the glock jockeys. You want to shoot SIG.357 from a polymer framed P.O.S with a shitty polymer guide rod be my guest, but imho I think SIG .357 works just fine , in fact....sofa king great in a p226 or p229 I see no point in using the round for any other weapon.
Not too sure if the tape had any influence but the guy would have done well to shoot again. His shot was a complete sitter considering that he was only a couple of meters from the metal.
@@shorelinefishingmafia6133 lol and only a fool would think i was serious when i typed that.. but for the fools out there, let me help you understand by saying i was joking when i said that. Smdh. Judging by the thumbs up i got, must understood i was kidding.. but some (like you) don't see out side the box very often. You just want to make fun of being not knowing its you we are all laughing at. You are trying to correct me, yet YOU type this: "It was the tape that stoped bullet from going penetrating ".. That's not even correct grammar. Tip: work on you before attacking others blindly
Badlands not really a thing. The round expands more reliable and larger than well known 9mm rounds making it deliver more energy and less likely to pass through. Ballistics 101.
Look up actual "over penetration" accounts and you won't find them most likely. Ballistics gel does not represent human flesh. Hence why you can calibrate it with a bb rifle. In real life situations all of this ammo acts differently than it does in these tests. Some hollow points that stop too fast in gel will actually not do that in flesh. Cops shot a skinny 18 year old with 180gr 40 S&W, one of these bullets stopped on his spine and did not open because there was less than an inch of flesh from skin to bone. So it basically was a fmj which overpentrates in gel. An Xtreme Defender all copper bullet from lehigh will penetrate less than that fmj but go deeper. I can think countless other examples of inconsistencies between real life and ballistics gel.
Steve Johnson. Unless your law enforcement, over penetration is a non issue in handgun ammo. No one is going to rob, kidnap, ect, you with people all around.
Just a excellent video about the power of those four bullets just amazing you would think the 40 s&W and 45 ACP would have penetrated the second one just don't believe this video gets five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐👍
Tim Beatty Would depend on the grain, which I believe is usually a 55 grain. The velocity will be high, but the light grain will work against it's penetration. Recall the grains used: 115 for 9, 125 for 357, 180 for 40 and 230 for 45. This being said, it may have the highest velocity being so light but the for pounds of stopping per will be light. Put it in comparison, it is less than half the weight of the 9. My experience leads me to believe it would be stopped by the 2nd panel. Hope that helps.
@@thatsmytwocents4372 think about what a .223 round would do to these panels. the FN 5.7 may only be 55 grains but its moving WAY faster. I would bet that it would go through at least 4-5 panels.
@@Ragnar_Helsson if that's you're bet you would lose. I think it was Kentuckybalistics that did a comparison using wood blocks. The 357 still kicks butt. It's just not as popular being a better version of 9mm and all.
![357 sig vs 357 mag - How Many Paper Plates? [VERY SURPRISING RESULTS]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xbn4U9vCk4M/mqdefault.jpg)
The best comparison of different calibers i have ever seen on youtube because he use the same model of guns and same length of barrels.
Great job.....my Girl has glock. 357 sig...wtf
A well done comparison. Which of us would have put in the money for 8 sheets of aluminium (I always say it British pronunciation in my head).
and the same type of ammo line
And the same type of ammo! Good job.
@@External2737 you damn dirty traitor!!!
I really hate that the 357sig has never caught on. It's an awesome round and you just proved it.
What about 10mm🤷🏼♂️
Right?! I freaking love mine from hk!
IT DEPENDS. What do you want to do with it? Over penetration is never a good thing.
How about doing the 357 Sig on the 10mm case?
I carry a Glock 33 all day every day. Never a single issue with 1000's of rounds through it.
It is refreshing to see real integrity in testing. The same make of gun, the same type and most commonly used size of ammo, and the same barrel length.
Absolutely no bias or bullshit. I have just become a subscriber.
Thanks for watching, subscribing, and taking the time to leave some feedback.
The bonus package on the 357 sig, the necked down case makes for absolutely no chambering issues. The most reliable I have ever carried.
Don't wanna get hit by ANY of em !
Best reply yet.
Exactly. It's all about giving people choices, like in any other market. Getting shot with a .380 is gonna stop you on your tracks as much as a 45 will.
@Bill Randall so true, thats my reply when someone says I don't want to be shot with a 22
"Thanks for watching the penetration channel" Giggidy...
So behave
First video I've ever seen that actually uses identical pistols. Which really is critical to accurately performing these comparisons. Good job.
Lee Cahall thanks for watching, and for the positive feedback.
yeah but he used the weakest 9mm round there is. So not a fair comparison.
@@spicecrop He used regular green box ammo for all the guns to keep it real . A lot of people like to use 9mm +p or +p+ and normal ammo for all the other guns calibers in comparison test .
@@spicecrop and the weakest .357 sig too? WWW is all neutered ammo. Underwood .357 sig is cooking around 1500 fps + it would still reign supreme
@@pmorin313 Of course 357 sig is superior. Nobody would argue that. But that was hardly my point. I'm referring to using 115 gr. 9mm Instead of 124 gr. for a more standard comparison.
I am really starting to like the 357 sig. Some of the better factory loads are in excess of 1500 fps and that's impressive.
WOW. information without a bunch of loudmouth B.S. THANK YOU!!!!!
Jeff Brady haha...Thanks for watching.
Great effort to keep all things equal! This definitely makes a comparison easier to believe in the results . Thank you!
40 was disadvantaged. 165 is the nominal weight, 180 is heavy. I would expect the 165 to perform similarly to the 357sig.
This. Every single test I see like this when people test out 40 S&W, they always use 180gr rounds for some reason. The most common rounds carried in 40, especially for defensive loads are either 155 or 165 loadings. Those can get up to and sometimes over 1200fps. I want to see one of these tests where they don't use slow 180gr range ammo. I don't think it'll do as well as the 357 Sig, but it'll do better than the slow 180gr rounds.
You got that right 165 gr Winchester ammo for a 40 cal .
My .40 is loaded with Federal HST Tactical 180 gr. jacketed hollow points. Longest shot I'll need to take in my house is 10 yds. 1000 fps muzzle velocity, 400+ ft. lbs. force, expansion rate of 100 - 150% I just want stopping power not to take out walls. As to the .40 cal - 10 mm argument the best description I can remember is to think of the 10 mm as a .40 magnum since the difference is 10 mm is longer so it holds more powder.
@@shadowknows3882 All these wannabe Rambos think they're gonna snipe some "bad guy" behind a car door from a football field away with a pocket pistol.
@@benn454 for sure. People need to think about how they will use their weapons. I have 3, a tactical 12 gauge, .40 m&p shield and my new sd9ve. Buckshot in the 12, 180gr. tactical in the .40 and since I just got the 9mm i'm looking for tactical for that. at the range i practice at 10 yds because that is average range to any point of entry into my house 12 ga i keep a full choke tube for a 2.5 inch pattern @10 yds. these people think their the next lone ranger or something. know your field of fire and practice that using the most stopping power you can get your hands on unless you've got king kong or godzilla in your area an S&W 500 loaded with 700gr. is not needed
The video was priceless, it clarifies and reaffirms what different calibers can really do...
Thank you for taking time, spending money and effort to bring this knowledge out to public.
thank YOU for watching, and for the feedback!
Antoua B yes, ty
Antoua B Doesn't clarify anything other than he should try a lighter grain 45 like 185. He's uses the heaviest grain bullet for the 45 and a lighter one for the 9mm. Other valid tests will show different than what this guy's video is showing.
Why would he use +P ammo in .45 when he didn't mention using +P in any of the others??? You sound like exactly the type of guy you are accusing him of being, except you have .45 tattooed on your ass, and seem butt hurt because whatever caliber YOU invested in (financially and apparently emotionally) did not appear to perform well in this unscientific and rather pointless comparison. Frankly unless he is testing specifically for aluminum barrier penetration, this review doesn't prove much of anything. Even if he was testing specifically for aluminum barrier penetration, he would need to do an even comparison of several shots from each weight of each caliber to gather any meaningful data to draw conclusions from. I wasn't going to comment at all except you seemed like a dipshit who is oblivious that you are projecting your own weird childish hangups on another poster. "My caliber didn't perform well in this video thereby upsetting my fragile psyche.... Waaaaahhh..... my pussy hurts."
Really?
Ok, that does it. I'm ordering the .357 drop-in barrel for my .40 Sig P226.
Good job, guys.
Biff Dinkley haha....thanks for watching.
You won't be disappointed! I have a 9mm barrel for my Springfield XD 357 Sig as well as a 5" tactical barrel in 357 Sig. Sticks our about 1" from the end of the slide.
Do you want to hit everything behind your target too? 40-45 seemed best for only killing bad guy, and not karen in accounting on the other side of the building through two walls.
Secret service uses this caliber for a reason! The best performing semi-auto caliber period. They want a bullet that STOPS THE THREAT NOW! Not minutes later from blood loss (black Talon) but NOW. Unfortunately too many in the industry include deaths by blood loss in how "effective" a defensive round is but that bad guy who died an hour later in the hospital can still kill dozens until they drop. Effective bullets stop threats IMMEDIATELY as possible. For some reason the high velocity 357 mag (revolver) and 357 sig (semi auto) do this more often than the other competitors. I want those that write articles about "one stop shot" percentages to NOT include subjects as a successful stop unless they went down immediately. That's real world!
Love that gun
Thanks for this video, I love the .357 Sig round it is awesome!
Probably the most accurate test I've seen on youtube. You actually used the same barrel lengths for all calibers. Wel done. Subbed👍
What a test!!!! I guessed the 9 and 357 would penetrate more. This should clarify a lot of arguments regarding penetration. Also to remember the 9 is to produce casualties, 45 to stop inside the cavity, the 40 to hit harder than the 9, stop in body cavity and the 357 sig designed to penetrate barriers, produced casualties and achieve characteristics similar to the motherland round .357 magnum
And 357sig top Dog
Very good video. I like that all rounds had the same length of barrel. I still like the 45 ACP. It only penetrated the first sheet and dimpled the second sheet, but all the mass was transferred into the first two sheets. Transfer of mass into flash is easy, over penetration in an urban environment is always a concern.
Larger low velocity rounds won't go as far BUT the blunt size of the slug (.45) will have the most stopping power. Simple physics
Thats why I like my 45 for home defense, lays next to me in my bed with a tach light so I can see what I'm shooting while I blind the S.O.B.
So, for home defense, 40s&w or 45acp (w/ extended mag) to put a big hole in the bad guy without killing your neighbors. 357sig as your car/truck gun. 9 for concealed carry (less recoil for follow-up accuracy and relatively higher capacity mag).
Sounds good to me! Thanks for watching.
very nice....
uhhhh......it only demonstrates what a FMJ bullet will do....it doesn't demonstrate what hollow points....underwoods....or critical duty bullets will do. So that conclusion is only useful if all you use is FMJs.
Pistol calibers for everything? Nah...
Any gun will do for home defense...it's all about stopping the threat rather they ran away or have up..not always about killing somebody...
“The nan millimeter”
D W and the fory and fory fav!
🤣🤣🤣
💀💀
That's all I could hear too!! 😂😂😂
From where this accent is?
Finally someone who finally does the comparison the right way
Exactly what I expected, all great rounds, but I'm a .45 ACP guy and I'll stay with it.
Bigger hole, who needs to over penetrate anyway.
Personally I'm a 10mm guy myself, but .45 ACP is still fun as hell to shoot and and the ammo is cheap to buy as well. If you really want to see a .45 ACP kick some serious ass, get yourself a .45 ACP carbine because I really enjoy plinking stuff with my .45 carbine.
230 g hardball. 🤷🤷🤷🤷
Yup, Charles Parr. I recall the foo-fa-rah of the Beretta 92FS (9mm) and the military transistion (in the late-'80s.) Then the USMC decided: "NOPE. We want the KNOCK-DOWN (of the 45ACP.)"
You probably still wear cargo shorts
Thank you finally a test with the same ammo out of the same guns
Great video! Run this again and keep this series going with different types of bullets. Bullet shape plays a big part in these tests as we know and it would be cool to see how they perform
All rounds have there advantage and disadvantage.....but all will drop a body, I do love my .40👍 thanks for the upload
Why the .40 over the .45 and 357sig?
I started with 45, went to 40, after 50 years of shooting selected on 9mm, price, availability, value and ease to shoot in small cancelled use and possible use in trading stock (9mm is the most commonly used and sought after when desperate) so your vid was great, there is more then pentation to consider, good luck out there
Great video. Thank you for that information. I did not know that 357 Sig had such great penetration with standard ball ammo
Good video! This test doesn't surprise me. Back in 2000 when my department adopted the 357 SIG we instructors did a similar test using a thick "bullet proof" Lexan window panel. The results were very similar to this test.
Great test! Consider conducting a .357 magnum vs 357 Sig test.
Frank M depending on what brand of ammo use 357mag should edge it out. But barely.
@@michigunsanta8680 buffalo bore 125 grain 1700 fps .357 Magnum
There is even a 180 grain 1500 fps .357 magnum with 899 ft/lb of muzzle energy
Калдыбаев Еркебулан I’d wanna shoot that stuff out of a lever action rifle for hunting, definitely wouldn’t wanna shoot that out of a snubbie! 😳😬
So grain does matter
Think 38 special for 357 sig, and the necked down 10mm version of 357 sig is about equal to 357 magnum
This is not the penetration channel I was looking for.
A professional test conducted using the same weapon designs and the same ammunition, great job!
Thanks for watching!
I was searching for a different penetration channel but this didn't disappoint
You should try 10mm
He should try 45 Super, 40 Super, 460 Rowland as well but like the 10mm, those are primarily niche cartridges that cater to a specific audience. The again, the vast majority of 10mm is little more than warm 40 S&W so what's the point.
10 mm is a beast
10mm can push heavier bullets faster than .40 due to the longer case. In range ammo, 10mm power is about the same as .40, but self defense and hunting ammo are much hotter. That being said, 9mm is perfectly acceptable for self defense with modern expanding bonded jacket bullets. It's cheaper to practice with and follow-up shots are going to be faster. And you get more shots in your magazine if you live in a free state that doesn't nerf the standard-sized magazines. Since I live in Communist-ruled California, I like .40, .45, and 10mm since I am limited to 10 round magazines.
John Shalamskas doubletap and winchester make the strongest 40 ammo (ranger t's) theyre loaded like a 357 fmj. the doubletap are jacketed cast lead HPs. shot a hog in the head with the 200gr version it was sticking out the backside of the skull. cant say the same from my 135gr fmj 357 that bounced off the same area different hog
John Shalamskas why not the ..357? I am liking the 10mm more and more
This test verifies 357sig is superior, penetrating aluminum. I'm pretty sure it is also superior penetrating humans. No matter how heavy their clothes are. Have been considering a g19 for a while now and about a month ago started considering a g 32. I would feel well armed with both but maybe better armed with the 357sig.
grady jr you would be good to go with either of these calibers. The 357 is my favorite of these four. thanks for watching.
The Penetration Channel nobody worried about over penetrating? I carry a G32 right now and and considering switching.
Cain Ammons this test is a demonstration of the penetration capabilities of these calibers. I used fmj ammo to show this. you really don't have to worry much about over penetration when using self defense ammo (hollowpoints).
You’d get to practice more with the glock 19 since 9mm ammo is much cheaper than 357 sig. the more practice the better your aim and that’s often the deciding factor in a life or death situation, who has the better aim not the bigger cartridge. Also 9mm pistols have a larger capacity than the 357 sig.
Shooting more is always a valid argument. However, that has a lot more to it then just ammo cost. Argument of "holds more ammo" is negated by your argument for better marksmanship thru more practice!
The difference between 17 rounds and 15 rounds if nil. The difference between a 357 and 9 mm round is MUCH more of the "winning factor" then 2 extra rounds! Ditched my EDC G19 for the G32 because if every shot counts the best caliber is obvious. Try one and move up to the front seat of the bus - better view from up here :- )
glock 31 barrel fits in a glock 22, turns it into 357 sig that is all u need, use same mags. Bear creek arsenal has it for $58 shipped
I like it, with everything being equal you let the rounds show their capabilities. Well done!
Thanks for watching.
Would have loved to see how the .40 performed in 165g.
I said the same thing! For the 9 and 357 sig, he used the lighter grained bullets. There's even 185 grained 45 acp's by Remington. Still, I luv this guys channel and his penetration tests! One of the best on The Tube actually! 💪🏾
@@357Franknitty I would like to see how the double tap 45 acp 1000 fps loads perform as well.
@@brandondavis4306 😯 Wow! I gotta check those out!
@@357Franknitty yeah I have some for my 1911 they shoot pretty accurately.
I thought the same. 165 grain is the sweet spot for 40cal
Velocity is king when penetrating metal.
Velocity and sectional density.
It depends on the grain. If you use, for instance, a 55 grain 9mm +P, The round is so light but going so fast (2000 fps) that it dissaoates on impact.
True, just look at shaped charges.
Right. But energy transfer and cavitation is king when you’re shooting meat bags. Penetration is of course still critical as is location. The .357 Sig really surprised me!
@None of your Business 337
Tell that to the M193 defeating AR500 LVL3 armor.
My uncle is a retired police officer and carries a 45 for the stopping power it has.
For me is to heavy. But I liked to have more stopping power than the 9 and no over penatration like the 357 is why I have 40.
I tested the 40 and 9 on a 2x4 wood board and the 40 did better.
You can say what ever you like but I will Stay with my 40
I didn't say anything. I simply performed a test, and shared the results. Thanks for watching.
@william terry a myth? So you're saying a high velocity round is equal to a heavier round? One goes clean through as he keeps coming or falls forward. The other breaks bone and pushes him back.
Just Be You are you saying a 9mm that hits bones won’t break them, and a .45 will not only stop someone’s forward momentum, but will actually push them back? There is no semi auto handgun cartridge that will stop someone’s forward momentum. 300 win mag won’t even stop your forward momentum, much less push you back. Stopping power, as in it hits with enough force to change your momentum is a myth. Stopping power as in, it has enough energy to reliably kill your target instantly with a center mass hit is not a myth, but no semi auto pistol cartridge will do that with energy alone, you have to hit the spine, which means you need enough penetration to get the bullet into/thru the spine.
A real world example to consider. East Texas deer are pathetic, 100 lbs is a good east Texas whitetail. 100 lbs east Texas whitetail don’t take a step or two back even when you hit them with 165 grain 30-06 ballistic tips. That round is carrying 4-6 time more energy than .45 acp, and most men are pushing 200 lbs. If a 30-06 can’t push a 100 lb deer around, a .45 acp certainly isn’t going to push a 200 lb man around
Great video. Just the facts and the results with no fluffy filler crap. Thank you. You got a new sub.
Jeff Sussex thanks for watching, and for subscribing.
I never owned a .357sig, but it was a solid Idea and I am sorry it did not take off better. I have owned 10mm's and I am happy that they are getting more attention these days.
Yes. The 357 Sig is an excellent round. And the 10MM can do it all. Thanks for watching.
You did a great job of an unbiased or prejudiced cartridge comparison. And thank you for giving the .357 Sig its proper credit.
The thinnest projectile has the most penetration. Makes sense. Nice video.
cardude1992 well not quite, the highest velocity had the most penetration. If you made a .45 acp bullet fly at 1400fps it would go through barriers too, but I don't think you can do that with .45 acp brass safely.
MrVOxMOx you're basically describing 44 magnum. Pretty sure that would've performed best. I shot a deer last year, facing me, with a 240gr xtp@1500. It went all the way through lengthwise and came out his butt. None of the other calibers here would do that bc a heavier projectile retains more of its energy. Check out kentucky ballistics. He likes to shoot tough things with guns from the men's department lol.
@@MrVOxMOx Actually you can go higher (not 1,400 fps though). The Sierra manual has loadings specifically for certain revolvers that can handle higher pressures, showing an increase in velocity of approx 200 fps faster than a .45 auto pistol such as mil-spec .45s. You can not safely use those loads in any semi-auto!
Smaller sectional density with higher speed. So 👍.
Great penetration test! thank you. I just wonder how this relates to the stopping power? For example, will the slower and less penetrating .45 be more destructive than the more penetrating 9mm and .357sig? Conventional wisdom says yes of course. In gel tests the internal destruction of .45 is scary.
These were not hollowpoint FMJs are meant to penetrate more
The only issue I have with the 357 sig is recoil and noise. It’s very snappy so keeping a hold of it during rapid fire exercises is quite unpleasant. I still prefer the 45 acp but it’s very heavy especially if you’re carrying a lot of ammo. I guess what I’m trying to say is there are pros and cons to all of them, so carry what you like and don’t sweat the small stuff.
Thank you for actually using the same ammo and barrel lengths in your demonstration
I think this is the most balanced test I've seen online so far
While we are arguing over grains and calibers and "mine is bigger than yours" lets remember that all calibers are not equal. Not supposed to be. If nothing else this video establishes what you will be getting from your typical Wal Mart ammo shelf. And for the record, I carry the 40s&w and despite the fact that it stopped at plate 2, I will still carry it. We know that against an unarmored human target, all these will get the job done. And stop with all the hate. Us gun nuts have to stick together and share what we know. Comment section started to look like some damn SJWs B.S.
Haha. This is true. I respect all these calibers, for they will surely do what they were intended to do. My favorite is the 357 sig, or 10mm. Although, I carry a 9mm daily with confidence. Thanks for watching.
only reason 40 didnt go as far as it has a flat face and not a point like 9mm and 357sig do
The 40 caliber ammo also had a flat nose unlike the others which were rounded and would obviously slow it down more quickly. I also have a 40 for my home with three 16 round magazines and a lazer light.
@ADEBISI ADEBISI You stick with your nine LOL, good luck
@@bigsean2473 bullshit! The 40 has more ft lbs. So nice try buddy
This was a nice video to stumble across. Personally i carry a sig pro 2022 chambered in .357sig. I bought the .40 barrel for it, but it has been in my closet pretty much the whole time.🤣🤣🤣. Love my 1911's but my sig sure does a great job especially over the longer shots at the range. Please do more of these!
I keep telling people that the 357 Sig is a brutal round...the fps and foot lbs. are undenialbe...
Forget the 9 and step up to the king of penetration...nice vid, thanks.
Yeah forget the cost and availability while you are at it. I love 357, but it's too expensive and not enough availability compared to 9mm
Plus there are much better rounds than 115 ball white box bullshit.
@@spicecrop There are a few suppliers online that carry 357 Sig for very reasonable prices. Check out AIM surplus, they have a box of 50 for approx $18. On top of that, reloading makes the 357 Sig extremely cheap!
toddy2519 when you can get 9mm for half what price you posted you can see why 9mm is the better option.
How does the 357 sig compare to a 357 magnum? I have an LCR 357 magnum for concealed carry
Brutal?...not the word I'd use. Dangerous, Yes. but where did the energy go..straight thru. No knock down. The .45 had all 900ft-lbs delivered to the subject. ...same with the 40. Shooting thru car doors? sure .375 does.. but you just killed the passenger too.
Good test that shows the .357's benefits for getting through barriers. Not only is it the highest-energy load in this lineup, it focuses that energy into a smaller frontal area than the .40 & .45. This is why the .357 SIG can even beat the 10mm Auto in penetration tests, despite the 10mm's extra energy for loadings of similar relative "heat".
Couple comments about your methods though. First, multiple shots per caliber would have provided more robust test results. Second, it would have been awesome to see chronograph data for each shot so that we could more accurately compare velocity, kinetic energy, and specific energy. Even if you don't have a chrono, a mention of the manufacturer's rated velocity of each load would have been better than nothing.
For those interested, here are Winchester's muzzle velocity & energy numbers (no mention of test barrel length) along with calculated specific energy:
Cartridge - MV - KE - SE
9mm* - 1140 fps - 358 ft-lb - 3616 ft-lb/in^2
.357 SIG - 1350 fps - 506 ft-lb - 5112 ft-lb/in^2
.40 S&W - 1020 fps - 416 ft-lb - 3310 ft-lb/in^2
.45ACP - 835 fps - 356 ft-lb - 2219 ft-lb/in^2
*There are several options for WWB 9mm 115gr FMJ; I took a guess at USA9MM.
The most effective bullet is one that dumps its energy into the target, not one that zips through and disappears into the distance.
What this test told me was that if I want the shortest incapacitation time in an assailant, use a .40sw or 45acp.
Nice test man, the most honest so far, same barrel lenght , same ammo, by manufactor, same targets,, instead of , Fmj for mi 45, but only having soft points for my 30-06 so ...
klaus mortensen thanks for watching. I appreciate the feedback.
.40 w/ 165 grain fmj round nose would be my choice for penetration test "
more velocity then .45
& more knock down punch then 9mm "
same used in FBI test"
& goes thru outboard boat motor"
There is no "knockdown punch." A bullet moving at 1200fps will go through you, not stop and push you.
@@jtcorvin9614
But .40s&w doesn't move at those velocities, average velocities for .40s&w is at 1,050 fps which is still fast.
GREAT video sir. I love this method! I knew before watching that the 357sig would outperform! That little round is a beast.
Lee V. TV thanks for watching!
yes sir i knew it too. very expensive round to shoot
+The Penetration Channel What is the thickness of those pannels?
Nah the .45 is still the better round it hit the hardest easily. Obviously it didn't penetrate more it wasn't made to penetrate
cnscm2614 actually there affordable Sig ammo is reasonably priced the Vcrown I believe is right around $18
As a CCW member and being responsible for everything your bullet hit, even past your target
this is the reason I carry a 45 and NOT a 357
Most fair comparison I've ever seen . Well done Sir ! I had to Subscribe .
Thanks for watching and subscribing!
the 40S&W was designed to not to over penetrat in cars walls but to just penetrate to the point to take down a suspect and not cause collateral damage to civilians in other cars or through walls
Francis Allen this is true but it doesn't take into account that not everyone involved in a shootout will stand out in the open. They will hide behind things like cars.
Francis Allen That is totally untrue. The .40 smith and wesson was ''designed'' to reduce the amount of recoil of the 10mm. Because too many agents were having trouble qualifying, due to the recoil of the 10mm. So the .40 was just a compromise. It offers adequate tissue disruption, penetration, and barrier resistance, while having manageable recoil. But it was not ''designed'' for anything other than less recoil than a 10mm.
Yes and the longer 10mm round forces a larger grip than the shorter .40, so those with small hands were not comfortable with the ergonomics.
John Shalamskas And just what the fuck does that have to do with what the .40S&W was designed for?
Watcher 01A in fact most tests confirm its ballistics are roughly equivalent to 45acp
Metal is ductile and sticky. The stickiness is proportional to the mass of metal that is broken/separated. The reason why .40 and .45 penetrate less metal is that they need to piece through more metal circumference and mass! 9mm and .357 only piece through 90% line length (80% mass) of .40 goes through, and .40 only pieces through 90% line length (80% mass) of .45 pieces through.
In other words, .357 only needs to tear down 90% of metal molecular binding force from each metal plate (you may translate the circle to a straight line, .357 needs to divide a metal plate that is 90% in length compared to .40). In addition, .357 only needs to push 80% mass ahead compared to .40. These factors contribute to its penetration depth but not the energy measured in ft-lbs.
Finally, .357sig has larger energy measured in ft-lbs. Here is a quote, in all cases .357 sig has larger ft-lbs than .40sw:
At 125 grains, the .40 S&W maxes at about 469 ft/lbs compared with 564 ft/lbs for the .357 sig
At 180 grains, the .40 S&W maxes at about 520 ft/lbs compared with 524 ft/lbs for the .357 sig
At 140 grains, the .40 S&W maxes at about 415 ft/lbs compared with 568 ft/lbs for the .357 sig
Biggest take away here for me is that the .40 and .45 transfer a higher percentage of their energy into their intended target. The smaller two 9mm's will over penetrate a soft target but hit a target behind a car door or some intermediate barrier icluding layers of clothing. Interesting data.
Thanks for watching.
I just watched yesterday a cinder block test with a 9mm, .40 and .45 acp. All rounds penetrated the first wall of the block. All rounds were stopped by the second wall without breaking it. We need to build our homes from cinder blocks or solid pour concrete!
I think if you want an apples to apples comparison of calibers, you shouldn't use the light end of the spectrum in bullet weight in the 9mm and .357sig then use the high end of the spectrum in .40s&w and .45acp. Do this test again using 155 or 165 grain .40s&w and 180 grain .45acp, then the results can be measured evenly.
block mounted in the middle would have been ideal ... center targets have more flex than outer
You're absolutely correct!
Block in the middle more damage
From the 357 and the 40
Children stop Fighting.
I carry a 40 all the time
9, 357 over penetration
45, 40 wouldn't kill my neighbor.
But you know what all of them will kill the bad guy.
Great video.
Sorry if I come across rude, but my research clearly shows that 40 is virtually useless. Other calibers do the same job better.
I have my 40 all the time and love i always worry about to much penetration i know it has more Stopping power than the 9mil
I carry a 9, solely because the cost to practice and it was my first, I prefer 45 for pistols and 357 for revolvers but rifles take the cake, in which I like the 7.62x39
anthony peltier ... Boom 💥 Spoken Truth !
I would add two more rounds: 243 and 270/7mm-08
Yup! Pistols are just so you can get to your long gun.
The military used to do a test, I'm not sure if they still do, where if the round will penetrate a 3/8" piece of plywood its considered a possible lethal shot (obviously some factors as to where the shot hits, body armor, etc) .45acp was still considered "lethal" at 400 yards out of a SBR and 200 yards out a 1911 hand gun. I'm glad to see a comparison like this done with everything as close as possible only changing the caliber.
Border 92 thanks for watching!
Keep your perspective people. This just shows penetration which is not the only measurement for damage done. One of the better tests out there though.
Exactly. This test was only to show the potential penetration capabilities of each caliber. Not to demonstrate the terminal ballistics inside of a soft target.
Great test.I like my 40 better now.More in my mag and lower price ammo for targets.
Shows part of the reason old timers in the thirties liked the .38 Super.
That 38 super should be way more popular than it is. Great great performer
Yeah but then those who have the 38 Super wouldn't be better than the rest of us peons.
@@jerroldkazynski5480 If only HK made .38 Supers then we really COULD flex on everybody LOL
180 gr is to heavy for 40 I'd like to see 165gr in this test
And 230 is heavy for the .45, I'd like to see a 185 or 200 grain bullet.
@@phillhuddleston9445 very true. I would also like to see them do this test with extreme penetrator ammo
@POOR PIRANO It's not like 40fps difference. Most 180gr rounds run at like 900-950 fps whereas 155 and 165 grainers can hit 1200 and sometimes higher with hot loads. All these 40 tests I see, the person always uses slow 180gr rounds when the most common carry rounds are 155 and 165gr.
Totally agree in regards to the 180 grain .40 S&W. We tested and issued 155 grain JHP @ ~ 1150 f/s. It performed quite well for us. We received a number of calls from police departments that had experienced failures to stop with the 180 grain JHP. After I re-retired I kept track of a local sheriff’s department’s experience with the 155 grain JHP .40. In the first year there were 3 one shot stops. Sadly, they inadvertently switched to 180 grain JHP and the first shooting demonstrated that it was a mistake. Subject who was attacking a deputy was shot at point blank distance 3 times in the chest with 180 /40 S&W. Subject ran 50 yards and sat down against a tree. When backup officers arrived subject was complaining about having troubling breathing. When EMT’s arrived he was no longer breathing. In fairness to ammunition manufactures I understand that there have been significant improvement in hollow point design. Still, I truly believe that the 155 or 65 JHP would be a better choice.
excellent presentation. it confirmed my next purchase of the supersonic 357 Sig.
It's definitely a powerful and quite capable round. You won't be disappointed. It's also the most accurate round that I own.
Thanks for watching.
Finally someone who uses same barrel size and gun for each caliber.
what does it tell you when the lightest round has the higher velocity, of course your gonna get more penetration
The 45 round is more shaped like a steel ball the 9mm is shaped more with a pointed tip so its going to get better penetration
New to your channel, liked this vid. Same guns, same barrel lengths and same manufacturer of ammo, you are already far above many of the tests and comparisons I watch here on youtube. New sub just for the effort and attention to detail. As far as the bullet weight arguments I see going on, well that is just more reason to make more vids, no? Thanks.
Grey Beard thanks for the kind words and the sub. I have an Underwood ammo Extreme Penetrator test planned for this weekend. 140gr for the .40 S&W, and 115gr for the 357 sig. Stay tuned. thanks for watching!
I will. Any worries about over penetration when you get into high performance self defence rounds?
Grey Beard yeah. actually for my personal carry, I use 9mm Federal HST 124gr hollowpoints. I would never carry those Extreme Penetrator rounds for self defense.
Agreed
why do you you tubers always use the heaviest 40 and 45 cal rounds and the lightest 9mm rounds
he used the most common bullet weights for each round. You could test hundreds of bullet weights snd velocitys if money and time were unlimited. This was a pretty good test, same guns same ammo.
But hey feel free to do your own test with the ammo of your choice and make sure you post the video for all to see.
Dont own a 45 but i heard supersonic 45s are really hard to get
@@winehead99 180gr is not the most common for the 40. The most common, especially in carry ammo is either 155 or 165 gr rounds. 180gr usually only hit like 900fps whereas the 155 and 165 can hit around 1200fps. It's true. These testers for some reason always use the heaviest 40 and 45 rounds for penetration tests when it's known that speed is what allows for more penetration yet they choose the heaviest 40 and 45 rounds and the lightest or close to lightest 9mm rounds.
In these kind of test the smaller diameter bullets usually always wins. .22WM is hell on this kind of test
Bl0odredsandman you got that right, I’ve been saying that since I started watching TH-cam
Best test I’ve seen on TH-cam !
Thanks for watching!
DAMN, look at that .357 Sig go!!!! Defeated them all, I did not expect that!
I'm a big proponent of .357 SIG, there's a reason why the US Secret Service use it (SIG P229). However, you should've used a 165gr in the .40 S&W.
Great video anyway. 👍
I came here looking to see if anyone else would say 165 over 180.
Shoulve used 185 in the .45, also. He used the lightest round on 9mm, but heaviest on the higher calibers. Still a great test, though. I know a lot of people hate on the .40, but i really like it, same terminal ballistics as a .45, with twice the kick, haha.
@@the.living.man. I like a .45. But many factors go into the "perfect" bullet. I like .40 because of it's superior capacity over the .45 and it's more powerful than a 9mm. I also like the .40's penetration capability. But I ain't no expert.
@@jeramyw yeah, same, although with the .40, follow up shots are not as fast aswith the 9mm, my USP .40 kicks harder than my USP.45, and can only carry one more round, so with that particular setup, i favor the .45. But my P30 .40 carries the same astheUSP and conceals pretty decent, so i like a .40 there, whereas stopping power is still important, in my opinion. Nothing wrong with a 9mm, just too many videos of people fighting through it for me to be comfortable with. A great defensive caliber should not penetrate 2 .25" pieces of aluminum separated by an 1.5" spacing. You want to get into the thorastic cavity, and deal and create a shockwave, not pierce through with ultimate penetration, unless its a rifle round designed to yaw and tumble, like a 5.56. Yet, all the keyboard warriors undoubtedly look at this and think a .357 sig is superior. .40 concealed, .45 open/service, 5.56 truck gun. Sorry for the book, i agree with you completely.
@@the.living.man. 9mm is ultimately tamer on recoil, yes. However with proper training you can speed it up. .40 S&W 165 grain HST does like going through things like walls, cars, windshields, and so on. 357 Sig is interesting. Although, .40 caliber projectiles can be used in .40 S&W, 10mm Auto, 10mm Magnum, and 38-40 WCF. That last one was a cowboy round made in the 1870s. It was the second most common lever action and revolver combo round back then behind 44-40 WCF. .45 Colt had a wimpy rim so lever action extractors couldn't grab initially. A Ruger GP100 Lipseys model would be a superb host for all those 40 calibers. Yugo M67 7.62x39 yaws as well. I wish to find a modern non corrosive substitute that's not so expensive.
I see now why the state Highway Patrol likes the 357 Sig , and maybe so if they need to shoot at at car , we'll I guess this video gives the answer to that question
Corbon DPX in 9mm is well know for penetrating car doors.
@Caleb sure if you want them to be able to out run your bullet lol
I gave thumbs up because you now removed the variables of different loads. You are now using the "scientific method". BRAVO!
Rock Hard thanks for watching!
yw. i enjoyed it.
I have all four calibers, the 45 may have not penetrated as much but it dumped all its energy on the second plate. 45 for my cc. And .357 sig for drilling holes in my projects when I cant find my drill bit!
Pretty scientific and proved what i thought would happen, subbed!
Thanks for watching, and Subbing!
This test was very eye opening, I would have thought that the .40 would have out perfomed the 9mm. Really suprising to see a real world test. I would love to see the same test on balistic gelatin, or a pork shoulder roast with hollow points, and a denim outside layer? I wonder if the results would change in summer temperatures? But still very impressed with the 9mm??
but sometimes over penetration is or can be a bad thing I would still trust my .40 or .45 to stop an intruder without over penetration then I would with a 9mm but it is surprising for sure.
@@brandondavis4306 Over penetration is overrated. Unless you are shooting into a crowd, but who would do that anyway?
After a .40/.45 enters then exits a body just exactly how much energy is still there to be lethal? Has anyone ever even bothered to check? I haven't seen anything on over penetration, it's just always mentioned as an afterthought.
I would love to see a test that looks at velocity after 9" of ballistic gel.
you should try a 165 grain for the .40
And he should try the 65grain or 95grain 357sig
Only if ammo manufacturers stop downloading 357SIG to the same level as 9mm/40 (35k psi!!), it would have made through at least 1 more layer at proper 40k psi.
Actually, the 357 SIG specs in Europe call for a maximum average pressure of 44,000 psi, but here in the USA, SAMMI specs down rate it to 40,000 psi.I don't have a clue as to why.
While I also suspect that there could have been some kind of pussification of American 357SIG, it is not advisable to compare two numbers directly because of different test configurations, namely different point of measuring pressure and whether transducers are exposed to gas or not. SAAMI and CIP each have their own testing configurations hence the different readings of (hopefully, and I mean it :) very close actual working pressures.
toddy2519 probably to extend service life of pistols.
Probably, which makes me sad. Because IMO that's no reason to download a purpose-designed round. Gun manufacturers are at fault for taking 9/40 gun and just shoving in a 357SIG barrel when in reality they should have designed a sturdier gun for the SIG cartridge.
i_hate_cars you are trolling right.SIG SAUER, the part inventor of the ROUND also manufactures a very reliable GUN to use the round in. I mean like I told all the glock jockeys. You want to shoot SIG.357 from a polymer framed P.O.S with a shitty polymer guide rod be my guest, but imho I think SIG .357 works just fine , in fact....sofa king great in a p226 or p229 I see no point in using the round for any other weapon.
Awesome vid finally someone does it with identical ammo,guns and barrel length, great job
I had no idea the 357 Sig was such penetrating round. Great set up.
That 40 round would have passed threw it all, but that damn piece of tape really slowed it down
Not too sure if the tape had any influence but the guy would have done well to shoot again. His shot was a complete sitter considering that he was only a couple of meters from the metal.
@@reconnaisancesapper i was kidding about the tape
Only people with 40s will say something like that 😂😂😂 naw man it was the tape that stopped the bullet from penetrating through.
@@shorelinefishingmafia6133 lol and only a fool would think i was serious when i typed that.. but for the fools out there, let me help you understand by saying i was joking when i said that. Smdh. Judging by the thumbs up i got, must understood i was kidding.. but some (like you) don't see out side the box very often. You just want to make fun of being not knowing its you we are all laughing at.
You are trying to correct me, yet YOU type this:
"It was the tape that stoped bullet from going penetrating "..
That's not even correct grammar.
Tip: work on you before attacking others blindly
@@johnnyturbo8460 what are you talking about? I know you were playing around, Some People would say something like that So get off your high horse
Do a full bore 357Sig VS a full bore 10mm Auto!!!!!!!!
cavediverjc yes
cavediverjc LMAO the 10mm would out preform all day long LOL.
No 9mm fullbore ?
This!!!!
i carry 357sig. love it!
n300zx931 over penetration that's dangerous
Badlands not really a thing. The round expands more reliable and larger than well known 9mm rounds making it deliver more energy and less likely to pass through. Ballistics 101.
n300zx931 ^^^ what he said.
Look up actual "over penetration" accounts and you won't find them most likely. Ballistics gel does not represent human flesh. Hence why you can calibrate it with a bb rifle. In real life situations all of this ammo acts differently than it does in these tests. Some hollow points that stop too fast in gel will actually not do that in flesh. Cops shot a skinny 18 year old with 180gr 40 S&W, one of these bullets stopped on his spine and did not open because there was less than an inch of flesh from skin to bone. So it basically was a fmj which overpentrates in gel. An Xtreme Defender all copper bullet from lehigh will penetrate less than that fmj but go deeper. I can think countless other examples of inconsistencies between real life and ballistics gel.
Steve Johnson. Unless your law enforcement, over penetration is a non issue in handgun ammo. No one is going to rob, kidnap, ect, you with people all around.
most accurate test video i watch no bias just fair test
Thanks for watching!
Just a excellent video about the power of those four bullets just amazing you would think the 40 s&W and 45 ACP would have penetrated the second one just don't believe this video gets five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐👍
i wounder how the fn 5.7 would stack up its got the speed. thank you for that test! most informative
Tim Beatty Would depend on the grain, which I believe is usually a 55 grain. The velocity will be high, but the light grain will work against it's penetration. Recall the grains used: 115 for 9, 125 for 357, 180 for 40 and 230 for 45. This being said, it may have the highest velocity being so light but the for pounds of stopping per will be light. Put it in comparison, it is less than half the weight of the 9. My experience leads me to believe it would be stopped by the 2nd panel. Hope that helps.
@@thatsmytwocents4372 think about what a .223 round would do to these panels. the FN 5.7 may only be 55 grains but its moving WAY faster. I would bet that it would go through at least 4-5 panels.
@@Ragnar_Helsson if that's you're bet you would lose. I think it was Kentuckybalistics that did a comparison using wood blocks. The 357 still kicks butt. It's just not as popular being a better version of 9mm and all.
That .45 though, you could clearly see the energy difference in the first panel. It’s like a sledge hammer
That .40 was more powerful to me
good job with similar brand ammo, and similar barrel length from same brand pistols. doing this mitigates confounding variables.
Jon O thanks for watching. I try to be as fair as possible.
357sig is basically a hot 9mm , good comparison video.
🤔Just can’t get more simplistic and factual than this.
I love the difference shown between the calibers, I'd honestly favour all of them.
Bro I subscribed just because of your channel name.
Haha....thanks for subbing.
Change the order the rounds are fired and the result may be reversed. Always good to keep the targets seperate as the metal integrity may change.
aluminum expands in a heated barrel and get stuck. it can also put groves in the barrel.
Im impressed with the effort to remove possible variables.. well done.. im now a subscriber.