"No Such Thing As Gay Christians" and Completely Missing The Point Of Romans 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
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I'm an Anglican Priest in the Diocese of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island (my pronouns are he/him/his) and I get to serve in the Parish of St Margaret of Scotland, in the beautiful city of Halifax, NS, that sits on the ancestral and unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq people. Email me at rev.ed.onlineministry@gmail.com and I will do my best to respond.
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God bless you and keep you!
I'm a straight white old guy ( l don't mind being labeled if it's accurate) . Years ago l attended a church in a large CA city, shortly after it became a reconciling church. Word got around and gay people started showing up. In 8 years that sleepy old church had doubled in size, including about 3 dozen gay couples. They offering free breakfast on Saturday, free lunch on Sunday, and the LGBTs were some of its biggest supporters.
One Sunday we had several of our gay members get up and tell the stories of how their former churches had treated them. It was heartbreaking. These folks had wanted to attend church for years, but had quit after being ridiculed and shunned. Then they found a new home because of one pastor's courage.
No such thing as gay Christians? I've seen them visiting the sick, feeding the hungry, comforting the greif-stricken. Shame on any preacher who says otherwise.
God created us all and God is love, who they love is irrelevant. I cannot believe that God cares who you love, only that you love. Straight old lady :)
As a straight old black guy (who collects all sorts of labels because contradictions can be fun), this makes me smile. Christians (and non-Christians) following the examples of Christ (whether they know it or not) always does.
@@JenniferGermain-rb2xg Amen.
God created a universe so complex and interconnected that our greatest minds barley can grasp it's genius
Do you think a being of such infinite power loses sleep cus the male hairless monkeys love each other
Homophobia is both a insult to the greatness of the creator and the logic of man
I'm an "old white guy" too. I left my church and won't return to church again because of the hypocrisy of these false Christians who judge and condemn gay people or anyone else. They are full of spite an vitriol and I just have no interest in being around them. I'm non-religious now, but I believe in God and do my best to live a good life. I pray quietly when I'm alone and avoid most conversations about religion because it's too often heart breaking how far from "Love one another as I have loved you" we've gotten as a society.
Great message to start my day. My bottom line is that judging others is not my job
Well said exactly God is the judge and we are all guilty BUT also can be saved by his grace and not by the law or works. Yes we are not the judge but he judges righteous on by faith . It's a crazy illogical thing but God did it so we can't boost in us only in him
I am an Evangelical Christian in a small Southern town, I have a gay son, he is and always will be my son, I am love him and love his partner he is another son to me. I have no illusions to what my church thinks about gays, Christ knows the heart of people, we think others sins are bigger than our sins.
We are all saved by grace and not of ourselved, it is the gift of God.
We are all sinners. We all must fight against our flesh every day. Every hr if necc'ry. Hate the sin, not the sinner & alla that. We are all born with our own particular proclivities. Some stronger & more intense than others.
The question is - What do we DO with our sin?
It's not about what the church says, it's about what our 3rce Holy God COMMANDS. & HE commands that we give our sin over to him-his yoke is easy. He commands that we genuinely repent: & go & sin no more.
We are not even to let sinful THOUGHTS linger, so we're not tempted to let our thoughts turn into actions. JESUS commands that we ask his forgiveness daily, let him light our path & intentionally avoid situations that might temptation us to sin...whatever the sin is-whether sexual activity outside the bounds of BIBLICAL marriage, or lying, gossiping, slander, or any of the others this preacher man read from Paul's letter.
The more we practice avoiding sinful actions & lean not on our own understanding-but trust in the Lord to guide our path- the easier & better it gets.
"Love is Love"??? Love doesn't always mean accepting practices/behaviors/ lifestyle choices.
I'll leave it at that. I'm sure it hits diff & deeper when it's your own dearest loved one. ❤🙏
It is a very vexed question . My rebuttal is : Christ’s overarching message was ‘ LOVE ONE ANOTHER ‘ Some ‘ christians ‘ have l ost sight of this in their zeal against one or two ‘ sins ‘ to the exclusion of all else . And whatever happened to ‘ judge not .’ ?!
Some would consider you a "NALT" - term coined by Dan Savage.
Thank you for being you and a loving person to your son. It's a beautiful thing.
Good for you being more moral than you religion & bible. The cognitive dissonance must be difficult, dump the whole nonsense and just be a better person.
@@stultusvenator3233 I believe in the teachings of Christ, and His call to love our neighbors as our selves. I go to a small church where we all know each other, I love those people, they just haven't had the opportunity to know gay people, seeing them only at a safe distance, I may have thought just like them, I was
always uncomfortable when they would be harsh with gays, when my son came out I became much more understanding and compassionate.
They are blinded by their prejudices, but Christ taught love, and I believe Him.
Your kindness helped me with a difficult day in front of me today.
Thank you.❤
How many people have taken thier lives when churches and church families use this to justify thier hated of them. Of othering them? How many people have left the church because of this? Thank you, Rev, for putting all this in perspective.
Yes in modern times it is certainly a path to waking up to the evils of religion and getting out. Makes a better world.
@@stultusvenator3233 But, I have long said that religion is a tool, whose use is determined by the heart of the user. It is often used for aid and comfort to those with emotional issues.
Did you know that the Quran forbids suicide, and attacking non-combatants? So that means it forbids those 'suicide bombing attacks'.
@@yurei8
Good people do good & Bed people do bad BUT to really do evil requires religion.
I and many don't care about the platitudes of these fictional literature it is what
They DO support and cover for that matters.
Every time someone like you quotes such a verse then someone else can point to another one sanctioning by interpretation the opposite.
Don't try to bullshit me-
The Quran has 123 verses that call for fighting and killing anyone who does not agree with the statement, “There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his prophet.” Jews and Christians are specifically included among such “infidels.”
The Quran’s Sura 5:33 says about infidels, “They shall be slain or crucified, or have their hands and feet cut off.” Sura 9:5 says, “Slay the infidels wherever you find them ... and lie in wait for them ... and establish every stratagem (of war against them).” Sura 47:4-9 promises paradise to whoever cuts off the head of an infidel.
There are, of course, other verses that call Muslims to lead a peaceable life, but the underlying theme in the Quran is that there never can be true peace until everything is submitted to Allah. Thus violence to that end is justified.
@@yurei8
A tool of control and oppression.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
-- Lucius Seneca
@@stultusvenator3233 Yes it is a tool. But tools are used according to the intentions and hearts of the users. People can be murdered by hammers, as an example. But it is not the fault of the hammers. I use my religion, to look at my life with broader philosophical ideas, such Love, charity, etc. Religions have been used to found universities, charity hospitals, homeless shelters, etc. I personally am part of denomination, which is part of broader movement called "New thought Christianity" We accept the major world religions as different paths to the same life life goals.
But let me leave you with this; Jesus said, "My peace I give unto you." So when you see Christian' denominations that are not at peace. they are missing the mark. Today, there are many calling themselves Christians, but they are way off the mark, and giving the entire religion a bad name.
So many seem to use their faith as a sword, rather than a shield to protect themselves and others. Thank you for this reflection.
Great way to express it! Put away your swords, folks! Live Aloha! 🌴🤙
That was so well put!!!
@@DianaEve65 Agree! Words as pictures! And I've felt those swords. EEEK
Having faith isn’t supposed to be a sword or a shield, it’s not a tool of war. Faith is the strength in your arms that allows you to use all of the tools that you need to use.
Thank you for inviting us to continue reading in entirety and not cherry picking.
Thank you Rev Ed...
My aunt was one of the first openly gay women anywhere around this deep red part of ohio..she was ridiculed and beaten a couple of times darn near to death just for existing...she was a good woman and a God loving person...wish she could've heard this message! I miss her😢
God give you comfort. She sounds like someone l would have loved to meet...maybe later in heaven!
I bet you anything her first hour in heaven Jesus had a a wail of a time just bear hugging her while telling her those bigots don’t speak for Him or His Father. I’m sure of it. “Last will be first and the first last” and “tax collectors and prostitutes entering the kingdom ahead of priests” and super religious people. These verses boom so much louder than the verses of Paul. And as this guy says at 15:14 this isn’t even the point of Paul’s verses
@@minui8758 🙏🏻💙
Love your neighbor... Followers of Jesus.... Thank you Brother Ed
I am now 75 years old. I realized I was gay very early at about 8 or 10 years old. Fortunately, my mother was a strong Christian and we always attended church and I believed. I have always believed in Jesus the Christ, and I have pursued a deep and meaningful relationship with Him as my Lord and Savior all my years. my greatest pain, other than losing loved ones to death, was the harsh treatment that I have received in so many churches during my life. I fully understand that there is little reason for a heterosexual Christian to deeply research scripture to discern God's will concerning those of us who are gay. the Biblical research goes so deep and requires research into original languages and the evaluation of writings by biblical scholars - clearly an undertaking that the average person would have little reason to pursue; it took me 2 years. What is difficult to understand is the hatred and malice I have seen in the conduct of my fellow Christians through the years.
There is no excuse for hatred and malice in a Christian. They're false - wolves in sheep's clothing.
I'm sorry for all that pain you didn't deserve. The Lord loves you, and you will find glory, love and complete acceptance in heaven💖
@@christinastateham3048 Exactly this. Well said.
As a Christian I find it sad that people limit gods love and our love towards others.
Nobody should have treated you horribly, but have you not read 1 Corinthians 5 ???
The Apostle Paul teaches there that if a congregation member is caught up in sin. They are to be talked to and then cast out if they refuse to repent of it.........
As well Jesus taught in Matthew 7:21-23. That it doesn't matter if you claim His name and/or even do works in His name. If a person continues to willfully sin, then He will tell them, "I never knew you"..........
You still have time to repent !!!
Thank you, Reverend Ed. You help me to be a better Christian 🙏 bless you and your family. Praise Jesus 💛
I'm transgender female, and I constantly have "Christians" come up to me and judge me as a sinner without even knowing me. I know that my God does not judge and Jesus loves me unconditionally.
Amen!!!
My philosophy: If there was a god that condemns people for loving, that's a god I'd want nothing to do with.
I am sorry you feel that way, because God will most certainly judge you. He states it over and over again. You don't get to write your own book. I didn't make up the rules, He did, but all of us must follow them. I'm not judging you but there is one who will. You should really study the word and find out for yourself because it is far too important to think falsely that God will not judge you for what you are doing. I'm just shouting out a warning to someone who is laboring under false pretenses. I am praying for you.
@@Polyphemus47 have you considered the alternative. I'm afraid you don't get to make the call, but if you are in the wrong position on this, you will have a very difficult eternity. Please take the time to discover the love of God. He is pure love, and has given us only two commandments. Love God with all your heart soul strength and mind and love your neighbor as your self. None of these has anything to do with sex. But the first one is the most important . You aren't loving God with all your heart if you are involved in sin...any sin
@@davidsherman2103 Thanks for your concern.
Wow. You literally changed my entire view on Roman's Chapter 1. I was beat up on by family my entire life since i was a young child because i can not change being gay.
Decades of being hated and self hate, all explained in this video.
Thank you.
I’m so very sorry you went through that, I can’t imagine how horrible that must’ve been for you💔
Im so sorry, you are loved..
If you didn't label yourself as gay, I wouldn't have known. I am so sorry people were mean to you and I hope now you are able to live your authentic life.
This was the most powerful message Ive ever recieved. Right into my heart, and MY Grandfather was a Southern Baptist Minister in Texas, bless his heart. I realized mid teens that their message wasn't my message. ❤ Thank you.
I was just thinking the exact same thing, and seeing your comment.
I am speechless. 🙏🏻
So much to unpack in this simple sermon. 🙏🏻
I often wonder why many Christians feel like their attention should be on us exclusively when there's hundreds of pastors and supposed believers who are caught hurting children sexually. I've brought this up a dozen times and i always get laugh reacts. One person had the audacity to say child molestation is preferable to drag shows.
the original Greek and Hebrew texts, the word that is now translated to 'homosexual' actually accurately translates to 'pedophile; or 'boy
In my understanding, the Old Testament said man shall not lay with boy. It wasn’t translated to homosexual until the new testament.
The retort to that is that child molestation often leads to self harm and addictive behavior later. Drag shows don't.
The claim about self harm and addictive behavior is from interviews in the Spotlight movie, and from one example from decades ago I can't remember details of.
The self harm and addiction were an obvious generalization from what was in Spotlight. They didn't offer statistics about this.
@@dustinhardy2952yup... funny how that works, ain't it?
Edit: especially for the ones usually reading it out...
@@dustinhardy2952yup... funny how that works, ain't it?
Dear lexiheart, How frustrating and scandalous it is to get reactions like that! Do these people know what they are saying? What is so horrible about drag shows? Nobody is encouraged to hate or harm anyone. In fact we all laugh and have a good time. I, personally, am amazed by drag queens. If you have ever seen a magician performing, don't you wonder, "How did he do it?". We are amazed. Drag queens can dress up and not only be convincing as women but are beautiful, too. It seems magical. Then they dance and sing in their own voices. And then they're really funny. No harm, just fun.
That's a far more generous, and intelligent, reading of those verses of Romans than most American Evangelical preachers are willing to allow. Thank you!
Your spot on Thanks Rev Ed, Don't Judge,You also show reading the the full text of a Bible verse is important, not nit picking what you want to hear....We need to stop the the Labels and just see ourselves as people.. God bless 🕊️
labels make everything worse MAGA for example
Dear Rev Ed Travis, Thank you for your moving message. I hope many will hear it. I fear, it is too late for millions of gay people who have left the church and will not return. I, for one, did return, but l found l must put aside the judgementalism toward gay people because I need God in my life. I could not get over the storm Pope Francis created when he would not condemn gays, saying,"Who am I to judge?" Perhaps the Holy Father read Romans I and ll while many other Catholics need to.
I believe there's no such thing as an anti-gay Christian. If you're anti-gay, you're not practicing Christianity.
Very very well said!
Invoking the no true Scotsman fallacy doesn’t work. Christian churches and practicing Christians can’t be swept away because you don’t agree with their hate based beliefs. They say you aren’t true Christians because you don’t follow the same hate based messages they get from the same book you adhere to. If the Bible is the divinely inspired word of an omnipotent benefactor why is his word so confusing as to leave two diametrically opposed philosophical outlooks as to the message it try’s to convey. An all loving god……..by what metric?
They cherry pick the Bible. Sure it says hating your brother is murder (1 john 3:15) but apparently it's ok when you really really hate people.
@ParanormalEncyclopedia nonono, it's okay to hate those people because God hates those people!
(This is heavy sarcasm, just in case some people can't tell)
@@jbfrancis2000 You just implied that God Himself is not the head of the church. Because same-sex sex IS prohibited by His very Word. He loves us, but He hates sinful behavior.
Missus here: Thank You Rev!! I have been trying to make these points to folks for years!
Rev Trevor's, I'm going on 73, I've prayed since I was in my teens to make me 'normal'. My Mom was a Catholic, she sent us to Sunday school, she gave us the basics, we were baptized, confirmed, etc., but I never conformed, my straight sister never did either, but because of my Mom, we both returned to Jesus! I still struggle with who I am & pray that the Lord accepts me, I know Jesus died for all of us, but the seen world shouts a different reality to us, thank you ❤
Remember that Paul had that issue he kept complaining about... Remember God accepted Paul just the way Paul was... now consider that some believe Paul was deep in the closet. So, accept that God does accept you just the way you are.
And always remember that the world shouts a lot of baloney. A lot.
God knows our hearts. Based on what you have shared, it shows that you love Him. He certain loves you no matter what.
Toni, the sin is not in the temptation, but the act. Homosexual sex is sin, but it sounds as though you have been struggling with it your entire life. If you have faced your sin, confessed it to God and repented, you are in good shape. I also had my temptations (we all have) but what God desires is that we turn to Him to overcome our sin, whatever it might be. I am 75 years old and just this year have overcome the sin I have struggled with since 5 years old. It is a struggle, it isn't easy, but with God's help it can be done. Never cease to fight and trust Jesus.
Let God judge each person’s sins and condemn no one. Just love others-that’s what your Brother and loving Father asked us to do.
Thank you for this. It is very timely and much appreciated. My grandson is a trans-boy and is going through hell both at school and at church. The parishioners have fractured themselves (yep, self inflicted) into pro and anti groups and both are being nasty. They are careful not to do it in earshot of my grandson but the kids are more than happy to share household conversations. Fortunately the minister is fully supportive of my grandson. I forwarded this video to him. Thank you, again.
🙏🏻💙🐉🏳️⚧️
@@carlaeskelsen Thank you. I don't understand the message but it didn't have any angry emojis so thank you.
My former pastor and her wife are not doing anything shameful by being married to each other. They're decent folks. All those male pastors, on the other hand, who're having affairs or worse with the women and girls in their congregation ought to be ashamed of themselves at the very least. And some really should be in jail.
They are -- the Bible specifically says that marriage was created by God as a holy matrimony between [M] and [W] so that He could bless their lineage. How are your pastor and her wife going to have a lineage?
@@Billy-bc8pk Same way my husband and I needed to. IVF. Duh.
Even cis-het couples can't always make babies naturally.
@@eliscanfield3913 That still required a man. Ergo, the pastor and her wife will never have a lineage, which is the point.
@@Billy-bc8pk And then there's what my grandparents did when they never had a child who lived. Adopted.
@@eliscanfield3913 There is no such thing as "cis", only what God intended. If you're buying into the corruption of the body (ergo a [M] cannot ever have working ovaries, so he can never become a [W]) then that explains a lot.
Every time I hear your message I feel so blessed that you are here to share your message with me. You are so blessed to have such a gift.
Wow, thank you
Agreed. I’m often doing chores while listening to Rev. Ed, and sometimes, out of the blue, I blurt out “I love you, Reverend Ed!” 😂
@@amybrown6540i bet you do
Its easy to love someone who goes along with the world. I feel empathy for brother ed. Hes wrong.
@@margaretjones7954 he preaches the love of God, he preaches the Bible, naturally you are entitled to believe that this is wrong. For most of us he gives us hope, he reconciles us with Christianity that so often is used as a bludgeon to attack and to control people.
@@margaretjones7954 you gotta admit there’s something in the Bible somewhere that tells not to judge. Our cause as Christians is to love, God does the judging with his infinite wisdom. Until a person draws their last breath…. It’s between him and the good Lord. Until they do draw their last breath God is still writing their story, stop trying to steal God’s pen.
I'm not a Christian. Thank you for trying to raise the consciousness of people.
rev ed, you are awesome! you are not stumbling, you do not use the holy books to prove your opinions, you use the holy books to form your opinions. and we love you for your honest mirroring of Christ. you are indeed a true servant and give me hope 🙂
I am gay. And I am Christian. I believe Jesus died on the cross for us. I struggle daily in every aspect of it, but I will never change my faith.
We all struggle in lots of areas self definitely included that's why 100% of Christians require a constant flow of his grace through faith. That's for sharing you are no different to us non gay people . Be encouraged Gods love is just insane and 1 area is not any worse or better than another. Don't swallow the lie
God made you perfect just the way you are
I have tried for years not to judge people and honestly I am getting pretty good at it. But I cannot contain my desire to judge the trump family. I am sure the lord will be pissed- I will pray about it. 💙 love your talks!
You're not the only one who struggles with that, I can tell you honestly! We *both* need to pray!!😅
@@denisemayosky1955 @nathenalocke I share the struggle with you both. 🖖🏻
I’m also struggling! 😳 I do pray about it.
❤❤❤ Spot on! Thank you again 😊
"Pull the plank out of thine own eye."
Hear hear
How did the gift of His Grace become a social club?
Exactly!??!
It didn't. They traded it for one, just as they traded their country for a red hat.
When you can make money from it.
@@Plethorality Yep. People make a lot of money from other people by telling them what they want to hear and giving them justification for thinking that way. It helps when they can reassure them that being smug about other people going to hell is OK.
I am no longer a Christian, but I have to tell you how impressed I am with your message. If more people representing Christianity were like you, there would not be the flight away from the church that we see today. I am a big fan of Jesus. Even if I don't believe in his divinity, I follow the precepts of his teachings in my life. Keep up the good work.
I stopped being a Christian, when the "Christians" started such awful extremism and the blatant taking over of our government to spread hateful messages. My dad was a pastor... And I just can not include myself in their group - when they seem to have lost the message so badly. I mean... Jeffery Dahmer died a Christian, right? And yet... Gay people can't be Christians? Unreal... Unacceptable. Thank you, Rev Ed! ❤️
So Jesus saying slaves obay your masters even the evil ones is goid ?
If all you believe in is Jesus then you have nothing. It’s His Divine Character is what you need. You have Chosen to go to Hell. You’re smart enough to read on your own. Start Again With The 4 Gospels. But, Start with John the last of the Gospels.
Well said Dale, your right on the money.
Well your opinion about God’s Word doesn’t mean anything. It’s His Word and His Truth. So if you Die Without His Word You Go To Hell.
💙 Thank you. I value your online ministry 💙
Short story ~ The last time I attended church was with my sister & my dearly departed mother on a long ago Mother’s Day. It was a special occasion in more than one way. My mother was a bit of a recluse, agoraphobic. But that day was a good one for Momma. The sermon started out so beautifully. But. Not 3 minutes in his choice of words n thoughts said I was condemned and not welcome. I remained in my seat for my mother. I left knowing I would not return 😢
Dear User-zh9, Perhaps you might consider a local Parrish that is accepting of gays. Not only that but there are whole denominations that do. Episcopalians, Congregationals, Lutherans (except Missouri Synod) and soon the United Methodists are accepting. The Metropolitan Community Church is made expressly for gays. There are many Catholic parrishes whose pastors are accepting but I doubt they advertise. I left the Church for 30 years and have returned because I need God in my life. Please do what you think is right for you l only give suggestions. Thank you.
@@user-ds8no1ro2q Thank you for your reply, and in such a timely manner. I sit peaceful on my patio,the wind blessing me at every turn. Gentle tears rest in the corner of my eyes. Thank you for the role you play here by your comments. Every word was exactly what and how I needed to hear it.
@user-ds8no1ro2q I know it's not them same thing, but....
I was "church shopping" and attended a Presbyterian church. The topic was divorce. When the pastor basically said that I am going to burn in hell for being divorced. I looked into the eyes of my impressionable ittle boy and saw that he was crushed.
Needless to say, we never attended a Presbyterian church again. However, I did not give up. We joined a Lutheran church where we were accepted.
In 2020, someone wrote an open letter to Dr. Laura because of her biblical views on homosexuality, it is often my go to. What is a fair price to sell my daughter, my neighbor is working on the Sabbath, should I stone him or call the police to do it. I'm sure you have seen it as it often makes the rounds. You can not pick and choose which bible rules to follow and what not to follow, if you insist on taking the bible literally that is. In the show The West Wing, President Bartlett did a take on it, was probably the first time I heard it, and although it had me rolling with laughter, it also had me thinking.
Idw2 start an argument w/u or anyone else but the laws/commandments you cited do not carry over to the N.T. If the law doesn't carry over to the N.T. it doesn't apply per the new covenant.
Sexual sin, incldg LGBTQ+. As shown in Romans, AND Matthew AND other Holy scripture.
It's not that one is gay, it's the active on-going, unrepentant lifestyle of sex outside the covenant of Holy Matrimony. One man & one woman.
As far as "They gossip...etc., " That's true. If one is a gossip, liar, theif as an unrepentant lifestyle, they are in trouble, too. If their sin doesn't grieve one's heart & bring them to repentence, one cannot be a Christian. It doesn't add up. It's like saying a vegetarian can eat meat & still be a vegetarian.
I thought the clobber verse was 2:1- “because you, the judge, are doing the same things”
The true message of Jesus. Love and not hate. This post is beautiful.
Let me not separate myself from God by judging others. ❤❤❤
Thank you Ed. Chapter 2!
Rev Ed, I think you're the real deal. As an ex-Christian, I understand that we like our stories. It makes things easier to remember and recount. But I also understand that nobody needs a weekly book club to be a decent person who contributes to human flourishing. Not when the book is so hateful and divisive and tribal. If y'all would even agree that it's JUST a book, that would be something. But that's never going to happen, not since Christianity grasped the levers of power and the strings of Rome's purse. There's too much at stake (allusion totally intended). That life is a classroom and not a courtroom will remain the world's best kept secrets.
I have seen several articles that discussed medical studies regarding "cause" of homosexuality. It has something to do with lack of sufficient testosterone receptors in males or lack of sufficient estrogen receptors in females to receive them while in the womb. Then you also have to consider the number of people who are born as intersex are as common as natural redheads. It's possibly more complicated than a choice. When you consider all of this, Paul's message when reading the entire letter is even more important. As my mother told me when I was a child after I told her someone else was doing something that I thought was bad, worry more about your own business and less about other people's business.
Those endocrine essays are pure conjecture, if you actually look at he conclusions they found that those hypotheses could not be replicated and had nothing to do with testosterone/estrogen levels given a number of clam buffet connoisseurs had much lower levels of testosterone they estimated to alter their behaviour.
@Billy-bc8pk At this point in my life, I just accept that I don't know what the answer is. If it's something that I don't necessarily see eye to eye with, but it is not affecting me personally, I just do my best to be accepting, respectful, and kind. I'm not going to judge. I would not want to cause someone to decide not to be comfortable in my fellowship or in the church.
@@larryh7760 There is a very hard scientific answer in neurophysiology. I, unfortunately, cannot break down to you the intricacies of it because YT does not allow for that, but if you lack discernment and actually want wisdom and understanding, absolutely pray about it. I may be able to direct you to some literature that may also help.
Mother Nature knows what she's doing.
I’m not even Christian and I listen to you. I do appreciate your words 🌹
Thank you, Rev. Ed. I've been a Christian for nearly 50 years (I'm a straight white Brit living in Germany) and have never heard this text set in context and preached like this before. I always had the feeling that something was wrong with the usual (American-influenced) teaching on this text, but now the text makes perfect sense. Your words also make it possible to see other texts in a different light, e.g. Romans 6:1. This is the reason for the widely perceived hypocrisy in churches and for "Christian Nationalism" - I would almost say that you can't be a Christian nationalist and a Christian 😊. This evening there's a meeting of independent church members in Munich to discuss the topic of "Homosexuality and the church", so your talk came just in time for that. With the usual kind of teaching on this subject (and others) the church is doing itself a disservice - and dragging Christ through the mud in the process. Thanks muchly for showing that we can do better, and God bless!
We Christians are always quick to draw lines delineating those who are in and those who are out. And we are always careful to put ourselves inside the line and those other people - the pariahs du jour - outside the line.
But Jesus stands with those outside the lines we draw.
"Judge not, that you be not judged." Matthew 7:1
You really gotta do a collab with "medias touch network" on the Christian nationalism
I watch Midas Touch also , love that channel and I just found this one . ❤
My husband and I used to attend a "gay church". I felt God's presence. The people were kind and welcoming to us, unlike some "straight " churches. ❤
Thank you Rev Ed
Throughout the Bible, Gay people are referred to as "eunuchs". Now, read Matthew 19:11=12. Better yet, read Matthew 19 including versed 11-12.
To clarify the passage, (hopefully), it is the words; "born that way", that is about what we call gay people today. . That is contrasted with those who chose celibacy for religious purposes, and those who may have had it done to them as prisoners of war, etc. In other words, the other types of eunuchs mentioned in the passage. Your interpretation rings true to me, considering all the different words that are used to describe gender variants in the english language, over the years.
I just thought about something else, important in that passage. Jesus starts it out by saying; "Now everyone cannot understand this..." But in the passage, he does not condemn those to 'don't understand'. He simply says that, 'those who understand, should accept it." This makes me speculate that there may be something biologically based, for people who do "not understand." However, this still not give them the right to discriminate, with an exception, for something like, who you can invite to your home, and so forth. Tell me, what you think, if you have time.
@@yurei8 There is not something biologically based, since during that phase of development the hypothalamus lacks its proper functionality. Here is a quick neurophysiological exercise: try to name something you find attractive without using any of your five senses.
@@Billy-bc8pk No, this is related to the entire body's endocrine system. The body produces hormones in multiple places. And hormone producer, may change in order to make up for a loss from an injured part of the body.
Bottom line is: that if gay people are mistakes, God still has a .900 batting average, in baseball terms! Can I get an Amen?
If only those people cheering their preacher could hear this.
I doubt they would believe it, even though it comes straight out of the Word
If they were insightful and honest with their own failings, they would quake in their boots.
Amen!
I thought that was so sad that these people *cheered* this hate-mongering and probably felt so self-righteous the whole time. It's disturbing!
I would cheer that preacher -- I heard this and it's completely contradicted by Leviticus 20-13 and Romans 1-26 and Romans 13 - 13
Rev Ed, I'm so glad that I found you on You Tube! This is the message I have been trying to get through to my Christian friends for a long time! I've been looking for a Christian teacher that I can follow because I can't find one near me who actually teaches that God IS love. Thank you for being just who I need. God bless you
Thanks for the talk Rev. I am an Atheist who was raised Catholic. I am subbed to your channel because I always appreciate your take and your message. I am also the father of a trans child and have found so much hate in the world of Christianity being propagated the modern political right. For folks who claim to be Xtian I don't know how many truly read and understand the message of Christ. It's nice to see someone else refer to Romans 2. FYI - I found me way here years ago through www.youtube.com/@BeauoftheFifthColumn . Thank you for doing what you do.
Atheist here too, and gay. I enjoy his videos, positive, calming, make me feel good, hopeful. I wouldn't have such a negative view of Christians if more of them were like him.
Thanks for this. What a powerful reminder of what Christ really brings to us, or can bring to us, if we leave our own agendas behind and truly listen.
I will have mercy, and not sacrifice. Go, and find out what that means. Love and Peace!
Straight woman from NC, and I am glad to hear what you have to say. There is a while Lotta otherin' going on in the church right now, we which is why I no longer attend. I will love God and all of my fellow humans, but I fjnd no fellowship in a church that is so conditional with their love and exceptance
Last June, I came across a parked truck with these two verses scrawled onto its back window (which was an unsightly mass of text). I found the first piece of paper I could and left a note under their windshield saying, "Your hermeneutic is bad, and you should feel bad. Own your bigotry instead of hiding behind an appeal to Paul."
Thank you for teaching me a new word, hermeneutic. I had to google it. Very glad I did & very grateful to you for having to do so! 🥰
So you invaded someone else's private property?
Well, the guy with the scrawled verses was intending to impact everyone that saw it, so he should have expected responses, shouldn’t he?
@wiseolsoul invading his truck, which is his private property, shows a immature response that can't handle disagreement.
@@johndeatherage8873
One more post, and then I’m done. If he had his truck parked in his own driveway, than I would totally agree with you. But, if he was parked in a public place, then he would have been forcing the people who walked by to read it, and they should have the right to respond.
Great sermon! I think maybe, when people start quoting the Bible as a basis for their moral supremacy, we should ask them to, “keep reading.”
Thank you! Reverend Ed. Your guidance rings true in my heart. I hope your meetings all went smoothly and the rest of your day. These talks you share really get me off to a better start to my day. Juuuuust right:)
Rev Ed, I believe you have done a very good explanation of this controversial topic. Thank you.
Yesterday I commented about Dignitas Infinita, recently declared by the Catholic Church, and encouraged everyone to read it in it full context, because it's about a lot more than gender theory or LGBTQ issues.
In section 8 it explains that human dignity is comprised of 4 different types of dignity: the ontological, the moral, the social, and the existential.
The ontological dignity is that unique expression of our own personal creation by God. It includes everything about us, both body and soul. And no matter what circumstances exist, that ontological dignity cannot be taken from us.
The next is moral dignity, which arises from our own choices. We have free will and we will chose our own paths. Sometimes those paths will be good abd other times they will lead to bad outcomes for us. But they are choices nonetheless. We can argue about the morality of LGBTQ issues, but regardless of our beliefs, the fact remains that the moral dignity is determined by the individual. As such they are also free to change their choices, and return their moral dignity to themselves. Please understand that I am not saying that a same sex relationship is immoral per se, or that sexual orientation is even a choice, because I agree with you that there is a difference between sexual orientation in the context of committed relationship and that of promiscuous lifestyle focused on self gratification. Even heterosexual relationships can be immoral if not in a committed relationship.
Both of the above dignities are the jurisdiction of the individual.
There are two other dignities, the social and the existential. Both of these have to do we how we as people treat others. Do we ostracize them as outcasts? Do we treat them as less than human? Do we condemn them without mercy? Do we "other" them, so that we don't need to see them in their full dignity and we can therefore treat them as less than what God created them as?
Do we threaten their very existence by depriving them of the necessities of life, including housing, health care, mental health supports, etc.?
These latter two dignities fall clearly in the jurisdiction of us, as the community of so-called Christians. How do we respond? If we cast out others, we end up committing moral indignities against ourselves.
There is much to unpack in all of this. I found Dignitas Infinita to be a very wise document even though I struggle with what it challenges me to do. But fundamentally, I don't think there is much daylight between it and your video today.
At the end of the day if we are wondering how to act in any situation we can never go wrong with what Jesus taught us. Love the Lord your God with all your mind and all your heart and all your soul. And love your neighbour as yourself.
Thanks for your video today Rev Ed. Well done.
Paix!
Brilliant! Thanks for sharing this
@@revedtrevors4961 I second Ed’s comment!
Funny, Rom 1:29 - 31 sounds like it's talking about Donnie boy.
Dear Eric Johnson, It's too bad Donny boy doesn't read even though he says the Bible is his second favorite book.
Rev Ed, Thank you for your video and support. The men in Romans were going against their natural desire for women to seek men.
Sharing my life with a woman has never even been an option to me. The oldest memory i have, long before i ever knew sex existed, i knew my life mate would be someone of the same gender. For me, to be with a woman would be going against the nature i was given.
Romans is definitely not talking about homosexual men. It's talking about heterosexual men.
I am a gay Christian. The Lord is an active participant in my life every day, all day.
Heres what i consider to be proof that gays can be saved:
-- if God gave gays and straights the same desire to want to share their lives with someone else, but said to straight people, "As long as you're married, go ahead and satisfy your passion for one another." But, said to gay people, "Dont you dare or it's the Lake of Fire for you!"
Then, gay people now have a case against God on judgment day. As christians, we know that no one can have a case against God. We all stand without excuse.
So, this, to me, is absolute proof that the theology against homosexuals is severely flawed.
Thank you for the reminder this morning, Rev. Ed. I'm going to keep "Remember Roman's, chapter 2" as a daily mantra! ⚘
Love you Brother! This is brilliant! You encourage me so very very much! I too feel totally blessed by your message. I also take to heart what you say about this desire maybe many of us have to ‘other’ people and to keep them out of our little in groups. I thank you for reminding me that God clearly tells don’t judge others. I take to heart the reminder given me in scripture that the Grace of God is what I should be living by and sharing with others. I totally accept that none of us are perfect, we all have faults, we all sin, we all fall short of the glory of God but God doesn’t give up on us and his patience is infinite, his love never ending.
Christian Church will accept anybody as long as they contribute to the collection fund for the church.
We should accept anybody and everybody.
Thank you so much, Reverend Ed, for this message. I spend quite a bit of time watching political news, which can be very stressful. When I feel down or discouraged I appreciate the loving kindness with which you deliver your messages. When I am exhausted from all the hatefulness, cruelty, judgement, hypocrisy & spite I see going on in the politics of my country, I can go to your content for some peace. Its so reassuring to hear you affirm the lessons & beliefs I find the most important as a Christian. The kindness, respect, charity & grace we are supposed to offer each other aren't lost after all & I can breathe a sigh of thankfulness. So, much appreciation to you for the content you create. 🙂❤️
Beautiful interpretation/understanding. I agree. Human spirit was created to love and be loved. Seeks to fulfill forgotten heavenly "mandate", so much so that they crash (great song/Dave Matthews Band😉) into each other/selves. Always seeking to love and be loved striving to to reach Higher Love (Steve Winwood🕊️)
Thank you for this message. I’ve thought a lot about this topic. Your message clarified what I have been thinking.
Thank you so very much for that message, Rev. Trevors. It sure did help me a whole lot. God bless, and have a great day.
You are exactly on point. This part of Romans is a rhetorical device, it's deliberately written as hyperbole to make a point. It's hard not to see this when you read the whole thing.
It's not really a trap though... it's just more obvious in the original text, it's a literary device of the time. I find it strange that preachers talk about Romans 1 like this, given this is a well known critique of using Romans 1 for this purpose, and they should/would know this. They are relying on the people listening not to understand this.
They're looking for the applause I'm afraid
@@revedtrevors4961 Yep. And it's frustrating, because they know better. They just do it anyway
Thank you, Rev. Ed, you give me hope for humanity.
Although I agree with you, I've never heard it said quite that way. Thank you for the clarity.
Thank you Reverend Trevors for this heartfelt expression of God's love and grace in your words. I am a Scottish-born Catholic living in Vancouver Island, who happens to be Gay, and I so wish to be fully embraced by my church. Thank you very much for enlightening me on Romans 1 and 2. For many LGBTQ individuals the judging is directed inward, and your mini sermon was for me a mini purification! May I add St Margaret Of Scotland has always been for me a model of what it means to live a life of piety.
My eldest grandchild is trans and we live in the "Bible Belt". Sadly, she (in a 25 yr old male body) can never bring herself to go to any church functionl, the judgyness would be too hard for her to face. She and her younger brother embrace Atheism instead. As you pointed out, commonly accepted Christian beliefs often miss entirely the true Christian message! 🎉 for those who see through the hypocrisy
Tell her we got room in our church! God bless you!
I love the way you drive it home. Your channel is very refreshing. People believe one sin is greater than the other , they can lie, gossip, fleece someone out of a dollar, take a parking spot out from under someone else. Jeez i could go on and on.
The only answer to Christians condemning anyone for anything is that God said to Paul "My Grace is sufficient". ANYONE who is searching for God should be welcomed, no MATTER WHAT. His Grace is sufficient.
THANK YOU THANK YOU for this video !!!!! I feel the same way and so appreciate the love and point of this video !!!! My husband sent this to me and we are incredibly thankful
Thank you Reverend for your focus on revealing the truth of Chapter 1 & 2. So many of us are so judgemental of others yet fail to look at our own sins and repent asking for forgiveness. Being raised Calvinistic I did hear much against the glbtq+ community, yet was also taught that we need to be kind to one another....treat others with the respect we desire for ourselves. Hating the sin but loving the sinner is what our Lord wants us to do. Trying to force others to comply to our will and doctrine only pushes them away even more. I firmly believe the only way to bring a person to Christ is through example, not war, threats, degradation or violence of any type (mental, physical or spiritual). Living a life based on Christs teachings is the only thing that will bring others to him.
Thank you for this. As a Christian with some gay family members, I put no less value in their relationship than I do any straight couple. I mean love is love. It’s not debauchery, it’s not some sinful act. They are committed to one another, treat each other with respect n care that I don’t see in many relationships. I have a strong view on this but it’s far too much to explain here. So thank you for speaking on this and it feels great knowing I’m not alone in my views.
I never saw Romans like that. Thank you, that's a really helpful insight.
As with several times before... Thank You.
Thank you for your clarity, scholarship, and fullness of understanding of the pilgrimage that is Christianity.
The people who spend so much energy on finding a group to hate have wasted the time they could be doing service to others and thus demonstrate how to love their neighbor. Pity.
Who came up with the concept of verses and why do we still use them? No other kind of book uses them and they only seem to be good at taking things out of context.
The way that I understood the words of Jesus, you can’t be rich and be a Christian.
Ive heard Jesus condemn the rich. I’ve never heard Jesus condemn the gay.
the love one another somehow gets lost with some people
Having seen "Spartacus" Showtime series all three seasons three times, that thing you point out about destroyed lives and self identity of the lower class for the entertainment of the well to do really hit hard. Yes, I also believe that kind of degradation is what Paul was referring to.
Matthew 7: 1-5 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" So the moral is "people who live in glass houses..."
Your comment about Romans being a single letter to a specific audience made me think of The Unvarnished New Testament, translated by Andy Gaus. He keeps the language deliberately simple and he does not separate different writings into chapters and verses, as most Bibles do. I think it might be eye-opening for people who have only ever read Romans in the condemnatory mode you mention in this video.
Thank you I have never heard it teach like that ❤❤
Thank you, Rev. Ed. We did a study at Church “What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality.” All about these clobber verses. I have passed on my copy of the book to a good friend of mine. She is planning on passing it on after reading. Getting the word out, one person at a time. Great video!
Thank you Rev Ed. I hope more people hear this. 🙏
It sounds as though "other"ing is an age-old human shortcoming. Thank you for this message.
Brother, you are a breath of fresh air and bright ray of sunshine in a dark, dark world.
Another great analysis, Father Ed. Of course, what I always remind these people that have such intense hatred of lgbtq people is that Paul also taught that EVERYONE who could possibly do so should strive to remain celibate as he did, and even says that a man "should never touch a woman".....of course, he did say that for those who just couldn't remain celibate, it was better to "marry than to burn with lust". And then I ask them, "Now, you HAVE tried to remain celibate, haven't you?" Paul had serious ISSUES when it came to sex. But then, to be fair, Paul advocated a number of things (like the sola fide doctrine or women being inferior to men) that Christ NEVER even remotely suggested.
Thank you for all your work, it helps me alot
I am a hard line Christian, I put the direct teachings of Christ above all dogma
I absolutely know there are gay Christians
I also totally reject the claims of piousness of evangelical idolators and their repugnant corporatist oneism
Rev Trevor’s, you are a breath of fresh air. Thank you
Good presentation. Part of a poem I wrote says
Oh, please don't pick up hand grenades and lob them at your friends.
No matter how much they're confused, they're women and they're men.
Love it!!! I would love to see the whole poem one day!!
Saying there’s no such things as a “gay Christian” is like saying there’s no such thing as a “hateful Christian.”
So judging others is bad?
Yes!
This is an excellent example of reading things in context. After all, letters were written not written in chapter/verse form as they are presented now. We get the whole message when we "keep reading".
The scriptures are a "whole meal", not a smorgasbord from which we pick and choose our favorite and sometimes clobber verses.
The tragedy in this preacher's case is that not only did he bash others, he missed the whole message of God's love and grace. 😢
And so did his cheering parishioners.
He did not miss it at all, he's trying to keep people from falling into sin, like many of the people in this comment section who are openly admitting to practicing things forbidden by the Word.
Thank you! I just came across your video! Great explanation! Keeping it real!
My question is, why do Christian care so much about the word of Paul?
Last I checked he wasn't Jesus.
Luke 10 : 16 listen Fr. Ed's talk, he is spot on.😊
I suspect that some of Paul's writings were about specific issues in a particular congregation. It is my understanding that they wrote him about specific things going on, in their own space. I agree with your post. Paul's writings were not more important than Jesus teachings.
@@yurei8 - Do you (or anyone) believe that when Paul set to writing a letter he thought to himself: "This is scripture?"
@@yabits The thing is, he was dealing with important issues, taking place in the early church. And one can argue, that they are still important today. The church is still here after almost 2000 years. Meanwhile, a car made of steel, 20 years ago has rusted, and fallen apart.
It's just a way of casting blame on another so they can feel superior to others and not have to look at their own shortcomings. Love is love in any of it's wonderful ways of expressing itself. I am a 67 year old straight woman with three straight sons BTW.
Great Words Rev Ed Thank You.l have always thought the words in Romans was more about usury not in a monetary sense but in a moral sense.Using others for your own pleasure/gain.I don't think it has anything to do with being Gay or Straight.l think it is more about being Selfish