Howdy everyone!! Here are the affiliate links in case this review helped you out :) Amazon: TLM 102 - amzn.to/3puCa19 TLM 103 - amzn.to/2Umei4i Sweetwater: TLM 102 - imp.i114863.net/yRxQED TLM 103 - imp.i114863.net/7mBkL3
@@jonathansellers793 Why? Brandon is mainly focussed on voice over with a little bit of recording guitars and vocals. But that doesn´t represent the needs of musicians and so Phil chooses a more practically relevant approach to mics. At least IMHO.
I just bought a Neumann TLM 103 and stumbled across this channel in the process. For me a 103 is better because i have a deep raspy voice. I upgraded from a Rode Nt-1 and the difference is like night and day. Solid channel and work my G!
I'm in the same situations as you were. Right now I got the Rode NT-1 and looking to upgrade to a better mic and i'm considering between 102 and 103 but don't know what should i choose. Can you tell me how is the tlm 103 working for you so far these past 9 months it would mean a lot to me to get some more info. Thanks!!
Thanks Phil. In the shootout I seem to like the 102 sound more, especially in the voice over and singing segments. A little warmer and smoother to my ears.
How come the tlm 103 is less sensitive? tlm 102 sensitivity is 11 mV/Pa, while the tlm 103 is 23 mV/Pa. Considering this, I don't understand how the tlm 103 would take less ambient noise than the tlm 102. Help me out here please.
Thanks Phil. Help me out guys I am a vocalist. I own a 102 and as I live in a heavy traffic area and my room is not treated there is a lot of sensitivity. The 102 even picks horns from miles away So my question is should i buy a 103 ? or do you have better alternatives? Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro Fs Thanks !!
I absolutely love my Neumann TLM102 kit with the shock mount for my home recording studio. Of course I understood that my space would need to be treated properly.
@@AudioHaze Why not make a video showing people how to get the best out of their TLM 102 in a home recording studio? Show them what they need to do to enjoy its benefits and mitigate the problems outside of a full studio?
Thanks Phil! With your feedback in mind, I correctly identified both blind tests, but honestly really enjoyed both sounds. Because I very much have a “home studio” I do think I will go with the 103 due to the slight advantages in an untreated space. I appreciate the honest and useful review!
As a voice actor I see other voice actors using the 103 more, but my preference listening to your review, was the 102. I have been planning to get the 103 for a while, but now I'm leaning more toward the 102. Great review...thanks!
Thanks Phil. Ricky, where did you get this idea that if a mic needs more gain, it is more sensitive to the environment ? If so, the SM7b should be super sensitive to all kinds of noise. The NT1 is also very sensitive to room noise, it's not gain hungry though. It is the overall design of the mic that makes it more or less prone to catching unwanted sounds. By the way, the sound difference for guitar is stunning. Was it really the same position ?
Two different kinds of microphones. Sm7b is a dynamic mic while the Neumann is a condenser. Big difference. Dynamics are more directional and can take more spl. Condensers are more sensitive and omnidirectional. Dynamic mics need more gain to bring them up to the record level. You don’t gain a condenser the same as a dynamic mic.
I have a 102 and recently borrowed the 103 from a friend to compare. 103 sounds much smoother on my voice, but 102 cuts through much better in a crowded mix especially with distorted rock guitars. 102 also has a less harsh top end to my ears. 102 sounds a bit narrower and focused, while the 103 sounds open but less punchy. Great comparison video 🤘🏻 By the way, what’s the song being sung at the end of the comparison? Incredible, I would like to add it to my favorites!
Gotta say, I agree with you that, at least in this video, I prefer the 102. To my ears, the proximity effect in the recordings you did here, make the 102 sound warmer than the 103. Wasn't expecting that. I'm curious, if I would've bought the 102 instead of the 103, if I still would've sent it back? Probably? After all is said and done, both the 102 and 103 are beautiful mics. But, I think I'll stick with the 440 Pure for now. If you pair the 440 with some analog emulating plugins and saturation, it really is a beautiful combination of detail and warmth. Another great vid! Thanks Phil!
Yeah the 440 is killer! I haven't made a chain specific for it yet but I would be curious to see how easy it would be to pull off a Neumann-like sound on mine :)
I got the103 and my voice sounded crystal clear but I was shocked at how much noise it picked up, I was hearing everything going on downstairs in my headphones, I felt like a superwoman with a heightened sense. I remembered your video about it's sensitivity. But for some reason, as soon as I started singing and recording into logic, I literally didn't do anything but it somehow cut out all the background noise and literally just collected my pure vocal CLEAN. My room isn't sound treated and I sang into a quality insulator, bought it with it's shock mount and I am more than pleased with it and very glad I didn't have to worry about the background noise. I also used a cheap presonus interface. So if anyone is concerned about its high sensitivity, it seems to sort itself out as you adjust the gains on your interface and it adapts. God bless you in Jesus name.
Thanks for the video. As far as I know, gain has nothing to do with how sensitive a mic is to environmental noise or noise rejection. Sensitivity is determined by the construction/design of the mic and, particularly, its capsule and polar pattern. Gain is just how loud the mic is, and can be an issue if you have a mic with above average self noise or a less than great preamp. Forgive me if I have misunderstood what you were saying. Cheers.
Sensitivity is the lowest SPL the mic is capable of converting into an electric voltage. Gain is the ratio between input voltage and output voltage on the preamp. Dynamic range is the difference in SPL between the lowest electrical voltage above the self noise floor of the microphone and the voltage at which the level of distortion generated internal to the microphone (potentially caused by a number of different factors) becomes unacceptable. Nirvana is a noise floor of 0dB and a completely flat frequency curve between 8Hz - 50Hz. Let me know if you ever find a microphone like that.
Probably my 3rd or 4th time watching this within a year. Thanks for the in-depth analysis. You really do give your viewers more to think about, and that’s a good thing.
Great work, Ricky! Really enjoying your videos! Another $100 shockmount you can get for the 102 is the MKS4 (works with the Sennheiser MK4 and TLM 103 as well.) Also the $300 EA1 shockmount isn't just expensive, it's a pain to use, too!
This is a great comparison, the most helpful one I’ve found comparing the 102 and 103. I’m liking how your video style is evolving, it feels high quality, fun to watch, and it’s got plenty of uniqueness that make your videos always worth watching even with all the other quality reviewers I like to watch 👍
Thanks! Yeah I'm trying to continually improve, I think I'm starting to land on something semi-professional, but I still need to keep tweaking. Regardless, appreciate you saying all this :)
This was an awesome video. I happened to need it because I've stumbled between a used TLM 103 and a brand new TLM 102, which are $100 apart. Is it worth the difference to get the TLM 103 in your opinion?
In 0:32 it seems that you want to say that a more sensitive mic does record a bigger part of unwanted noise. This is not true because the relation between "wanted signal" and "unwanted signal" stays the same. How high the unwanted noise is will be definied by polar sensitivity / directional characteristik and technology (condenser, dynamic, dampening ...) and of course by filtering. Besides of that, I agree. Also I would like to state that microfones are not rocket science, not even hig tech, but since decades well known low tech and ridiculously overpriced. With technologies like MatchEQ or FIR fiiltering, you can - concerning the equing - simulate/model different mics very precisely (Townsend Labs e.g. does this). Marketing people are lying the most time of their life.
I'm really confused now! Is it possible the 102 sounds better? Oh, woe is me... However my pocketbook is responding much better! From astonishingly windy and sorta weirdly back to normal Ireland! ☘☮🤘🏽🤠👍🏽☮☘
Hi ! Don't you find that the TLM 102 sounds more like a sensitive dynamic than a condenser? I find it rather narrow sounding and therefore not good enough for professional folk vocals for instance. Am I wrong? It's a shame because I love the sweet velvety character it has.
If you open up that aperture to maybe F2.8 or higher your camera won't struggle as much with the autofocus. Might need more lighting though. love the videos!!!
That singer is DAMN awesome. Also, whoever wrote the tune is skilled. Creative man. Great writing and performance. I'm an old guy who has run a studio for 30+ years. You guys did that song justice. As far as the mics? Eh...Either mic will work though. I own both, and a U87. And maybe 150 more. Literally. If forced to use any of them, you can make it work. All about what's IN FRONT OF THE MIC. And..ahem...having something actually WORTH recording. Thanks for the cool video. Sub'ing. Keep up the good work. P.S. I think I watched your sm7b vid...totally agree. Just get a 57 ;-) Unless you're in a radio station. Near an airport. With spinal tap levels of RFI. Then you might actually need the humbucking transformer in an sm7b. Sheesh...great mic, but the hype a while back...damn.
Tip: get whichever mic you can afford, and learn to love it. A tonal change means little. They both have the dynamic range Neumann is famous for and can be placed differently, EQd, etc to get a sound.
I have the tlm 102 and have used it for many years. Honestly I did notice sensitivity to background noises but didn't really understand why until your video on it. I am a machinist and I decided to fabricate a sleeve that allows me to use my tlm 102 with my audio technicas at4050's shock mount. I'm excited to see how this works for me. Made it out of a hard plastic called lexan.
@@AudioHaze If you ever would like for me to attempt to make something for you I'm sure we could figure it out. We have stubs of this material that don't get used. Only thing is that it does require precise dimensions. Obviously I could get the tlm dimensions no problem but the fit on the shock mount would depend on what shockmount you have that u want to adapt to. Either way I'd be happy to help out for fairly cheap. Keep up the good work ☺️
To me the 102 sounds so good and almost rivals u67. Bar the high frequency bump on the 102. If you can flatten that high end bump it would be as flat as the u67
Let’s make it proper: #ThanksPhil ❤️ I agree! The TLM 102 should come with a shock mount out of the box without having to pay even more. That being said though: even the TLM103 by default is sold on its own, with no shock mount to support it. At least over here in Germany. Let’s explain the proper naming to unconfuse this matter: the TLM 102 is optionally sold as a Studio Set, which includes the shock mount. The TLM 103 is optionally sold as a Studio Set as well, again, with the shock mount included. But it is also sold as a Mono Set, which includes not only the shock mount, but also a transport case. Weird enough: The case is for two microphones. And for those, who are in the market: It is optionally sold as a stereo set. And this includes a matched pair of TLM 103's, two shock mounts and the same transport case. This comes with a premium, compared to two mono sets. For those who don’t know: A matched pair consists of two microphones that sound the same. Now some might ask: What is this? I buy the same microphone twice, they should be the same anyways! The thing is though: It is very difficult to make two microphones (even two of the same model) sound the exact same. Almost every microphone out there must be matched in the factory, to really sound exactly like the next of the same brand and product name.
Absolutely! I wasn't as critical on the TLM 103 for not coming with a shockmount because I feel its marketing less as a home studio solution. I feel like at that price, perhaps the extreme sensitivity is ASSUMED to do better in a treated environment. Whereas a home studio mic, as the 102 is marketed as, should be scrutinized more. That being said, COME ON neumann you should give every mic a shockmount standard lol
yup I didn't know why I didn't like my voice through my tlm 102 until I got some better sound treatment. as a bonus, it has given me a great appreciation for everything my sm7b does! edit: just removed the foam from inside the 102 and it's brighter
have you ever tried removing the foam inside the tlm 102 capsule? it would be great to hear some comparisons with and without the foam since it is a very popular mod
When I had my 102 - it seemed to pick up absolutely everything in monitoring, but when i recorded, there was significantly less background noise in the recording, next to nill even. I'm looking to get a U87ai and I'm hoping it's not OD sensitive, but I've heard otherwise. Also sibilance isn't in the high end, it's in the upper mids 2-4k usually, which is before the shelf. The 102 is way more sibilant - i'm guessing it's because of the size of the diaphram, but I don't know.
Great comparison! By "home studio" do you mean a totally untreated space? Because I have have a small office that I've covered about 80% of in moving blankets and foam. My audio isn't as tight as a full-blown whisper room would be, but it's pretty good. Is that something that should push me towards the 103?
I have to say that after a second listen, one of these microphones definitely made your voice sound comparatively "congested". So odd that even slight deviations in the mids are so noticeable.
And there was me thinking he meant the 102 by congested cos that's how I heard it and that's kinda how I'm hearing it with my 102, it's why I'm here, to see if the 103 is more cleaner lol
cool video. The truth for me is the price. The problem with mics for me is this: mics of a certain price and up tend to sound so similar, with slight nuanced differences that I feel one can make them work easily no matter which one you choose. And mic placement goes a long way to compensate for slight differences. I bought the 102 over the 103 years ago because it was signifificantly cheaper and it sounds great. Besides recording myself and recording theater plays I use it in my home office for voip on a mic arm without any shock mount and have never noticed any weird noise from typing, stomping or similar. To me, it's a nonissue
Bought the 102, paid $200 extra for a Neumann shock mount. In my apollo twin using the UA Neve pre, I have to crank the white gain knob all the way up to get a decent level from the mic. When I do that, O get extra floor noise. I have heard the 103 is better with gain levels and background noise. I wanted to buy the 103 at the time but couldnt afford it, so I went with the 102. Im ready to upgrade and I'm still considering the 103.
Which mic would you suggest for stepping up my game? The tlm103 or the akg c414. At the moment I own the c214 but I would really love having a neumann.
Bra I bought the tlm103 last year as a main mic and ughhhhhh so much harshness……. Ugh. ONE time I got it decent with a waves c6 multiband for vocals but other than that especially in a vocal booth that is a big no. Got a Austrian audio edge solo, I prefer the tone but still condenser in a booth is boothy and boothy in a way u can’t reallly eq nothin. Even past a 200 high pass filter the character is lost What you think about that lewitt you said was ur best mic? U think for vocals in a booth (whisperroom) I’d be set?
It depends I think on what you want out of your mic! You said the 103 is harsh, well the 440 is even brighter, although brighter doesn't necessarily make it harsher. If you're looking for a different tone, maybe try a darket mic instead of something with a presence boost. Such as the NT1 :)
please tell me I have a poorly prepared room, but I do not like the sharpness, harsh sound of midrange 102, or is it corrected by the equalizer, as 103 behaves in not ideal conditions? .
Although the 103 has a wider high-frequency boost, It sounds crispier on voice, probably because of the higher gain setting you have to set It with? It also sounds more natural than the 102 to my ears.
I got a TLM103 used for 980$ and I'm not regreting it at all. At this price I just bought a Rycote shockmount. It's my go to mic when I don't want to warm up my Telefunken ak47. Since their prices went up a little I'm really glad I jumped on it.
Small diaphragm condenser pencil mics are a good option for home studios with limited treatment and sound proofing without having to resort to a dynamic mic like the SM7B. It’s the best of both worlds. Examples are the excellent Oktava 012, which is Russian made and only available used, Shure SM81, Rode M5
I know this is not related to the content of the video, but I need help. I accidentally dragged/moved 1 track from 2track of stereo recording, but without "snapping" feature, now it sounds out of phase. But also somehow it's not possible to re-move it again to the original position (matched with its stereo pair) because of some audio cropping process.. How to "re sync" it again? Is it possible? Also Thanks Phill 😆
Oh dude weird, you can't move it back? You could try some phase reversal tricks on EQ's but this probably won't help. Maybe get tricky with the EQ? But there's definitely got to be some way just to move the track back to its original position right?
Que pareja de ambos 2 microfonos (el mismo par) me recomendarías para grabar piano acustico un baby grand en una habitación no particularmente bien tratada? Gracias
I have to compliment you. That is one difficult video to produce. Your explanation of the 2 was excellent. I have a TLM 49 that I'm thinking of selling, only because it's just so large and heavy. So I'm thinking of buying the TLM103. But then when you introduced TLM102, it had me thinking.
Word to the wise: even if you treat a room, if the place is too small and you don’t have very very thick treatment, you still get a boxed in, ringy sort resonance with a very sensitive mic
Are you looking for a stand alone preamp or a preamp built into an interface? You can't go wrong with an apollo, but in terms of standalone preamps, a 1073 (or perhaps a warm audio remake if thats too expensive) is sort of the standard.
@@AudioHaze I have a Presonus 1818VSL interface so would be looking for a preamp to go with that. What else would you recommend apart from the 1073? Or would you recommend any of the online preamps you can download? Really love your videos by the way, been watching you for ages!
Not a fan of the 103. The boost starting at around 3.5kHz seems unnecessary; it's a bit too nasally. The 102 by comparison has a nice presence (the lift starts close to 6kHz) but is a bit less strident to my ears.
I’m wondering if I should try to find a TH-cam channel as good as yours BUT only reviews mics that are strictly for use in home recording studios? And THANKS PHIL!! (Enjoyed the guitar test segment a bazillion times more than the egg on a spoon test commercial!)
Haha good to know :) maybe I'll make more commercials. And this is probably the upper limit for the mics I'll review, at least for a long time, after a certain point I wonder if the mics are even relatable
Hope Scheops provide you samples for review. Their mics are very small and low profile, especially on their table stands, which will be a MUCH BETTER choice for TH-cam/podcast etc IMHO, versus stick a big SM8B in front of your face. Anyhow, looking forward to your review
I think its a misleading title, home studio and budget are similar but not the same. As I said, and I stand by, the 102 is not a mic suited for most home studios, whether its more affordable or not.
@@AudioHaze I was not trying to say that anybody was wrong neither misleading. I just said that, one thing its what you could understood as home studio definition (surely you understand that right) but what I was trying to say (I could be totally wrong) its that Neumann does not advertise the product using the word home studio meaning that this mice its going to be an all-round home studio solution. I just think they - never in a disrespected way of course - rather are trying to say that this mice its good professional enough, yet, at a price tag point where even home studios can afford it *Meaning by home studio non really professional people which normally do not make a living out of the mices and therefore should not have much money to invest "inverted bracket" so yet this quality/price its still available for many home studios with no much economic resources out of their productions if this make sense. This its just only my personal opinion about their definition of home studio on this very matter obviously. :)
I was looking for a proximity effect mic and was leaning towards the TLM 103, but now, I'm considering the TLM 102. Since I have other mics, that makes the 102 more tempting
I don't quite understand the criticism - Neumann markets the microphone with the term "Home Studio". One certainly don't interpret that as just any normal room in a noisy apartment. Home Studio implies non-professional applications - and for that, this thing is excellently suited at a fantastic price point if you want that Neumann sound (as the Sony C-80 is for the Sony sound - for a private individual who isn't earning any money from it, hardly willing to pay thousands of dollars)
I heard all tests with Neumann 30 headphones. My conclusion is: - Guitar: Neumann 102: I liked more all notes expect bass on . Recording is more close to SDC, but the bass strings are boomy to me. - Guitar: Neumann 103: its more full and open, probably just need to find another position to get a part of 102 sound. Really liked the way how bass strings sounding. - Vocal: I just liked overall 103 better to my ears. It seems like it has more dynamic range, and its significantly less noisy, I mentioned how envinroment affects the 102 recording after switching from 103. Well, guitra recording is very questionable. Low freqs win for 103, all others for 102. Vocal - clear winner 103. dont care about talking, but 102 seems more bass boosted voice, like on podcast with tons of EQ and effects. 103 hears more natural and pleasant
i like the mic 1 more bassy, what about alternatives to this 2 mics? i think the vanguard is better than tlm 103 and blue bird and bottle cheaper and better alternatives.
broooooo.... im upgrading my nt1 (adding another mic- TLM 102 is in my radar) but i wish i can truely justify the cost. ocassional rapping/singing/guitar, my voiceover gig (nt1 landed me some gigs).. i picked up the lewit 440- thanks for this comparison (neuman)
Seen quite a few comparison vids of these two mics. I have always liked the 102 better for vocals and acoustic guitar. Now I reach the same conclusion in both blind tests. The 102 is my preferred.
Thanks Phil. The TLM103is my top choice in my wish list, but for some reason is incredible expensive in my country (around 2k). At the moment I am happy with my Lewitt 440 Pure for voice and my SM57 for guitars, but indeed I want that Neumann.
I find the TLM102 very sibilant in comparison, honestly.... and the TLM 103 is already a bright one and with some (cheaper) Preamps really sibilant in the very up highs somehow... I would wonder, how the Rode NT1a keeps the competition here ? I would bet it would stand in between of them - as I heard some people say that it's bright but not as sibilant as the TLM102 .... ?
Howdy everyone!! Here are the affiliate links in case this review helped you out :)
Amazon:
TLM 102 - amzn.to/3puCa19
TLM 103 - amzn.to/2Umei4i
Sweetwater:
TLM 102 - imp.i114863.net/yRxQED
TLM 103 - imp.i114863.net/7mBkL3
Thanks Phil. I made it to that part of the video, and I'm angry about the review, and I'm letting you know in the comments.
this means we must battle.
@@AudioHaze you know he’ll beat you, right?
@@AudioHaze We don't have to deal with this sort of thing with Brandon.
@@jonathansellers793 Why? Brandon is mainly focussed on voice over with a little bit of recording guitars and vocals. But that doesn´t represent the needs of musicians and so Phil chooses a more practically relevant approach to mics. At least IMHO.
I feel the same way about both mics
I just bought a Neumann TLM 103 and stumbled across this channel in the process. For me a 103 is better because i have a deep raspy voice. I upgraded from a Rode Nt-1 and the difference is like night and day. Solid channel and work my G!
Thank you my friend! And enjoy the new mic :)
I'm in the same situations as you were. Right now I got the Rode NT-1 and looking to upgrade to a better mic and i'm considering between 102 and 103 but don't know what should i choose. Can you tell me how is the tlm 103 working for you so far these past 9 months it would mean a lot to me to get some more info. Thanks!!
Thanks Phil. In the shootout I seem to like the 102 sound more, especially in the voice over and singing segments. A little warmer and smoother to my ears.
definitely! I totally agree :)
How come the tlm 103 is less sensitive? tlm 102 sensitivity is 11 mV/Pa, while the tlm 103 is 23 mV/Pa. Considering this, I don't understand how the tlm 103 would take less ambient noise than the tlm 102. Help me out here please.
Thanks Phil. Help me out guys
I am a vocalist. I own a 102 and as I live in a heavy traffic area and my room is not treated there is a lot of sensitivity. The 102 even picks horns from miles away
So my question is should i buy a 103 ? or do you have better alternatives? Audio Interface: RME Babyface Pro Fs
Thanks !!
The best mic for this situations is the SM7B. You get the studio quality from a dinamic microphone
I absolutely love my Neumann TLM102 kit with the shock mount for my home recording studio. Of course I understood that my space would need to be treated properly.
Yeah I love the 102 as well :) in fact its continuing to grow on me, its sensitivity though is pretty intense!
@@AudioHaze Why not make a video showing people how to get the best out of their TLM 102 in a home recording studio? Show them what they need to do to enjoy its benefits and mitigate the problems outside of a full studio?
@@seanwebb605 doubt he can, all I ever see is a microphone getting hit like that is how we use them🤡
Thanks Phil! With your feedback in mind, I correctly identified both blind tests, but honestly really enjoyed both sounds. Because I very much have a “home studio” I do think I will go with the 103 due to the slight advantages in an untreated space. I appreciate the honest and useful review!
Glad I could help!
As a voice actor I see other voice actors using the 103 more, but my preference listening to your review, was the 102. I have been planning to get the 103 for a while, but now I'm leaning more toward the 102. Great review...thanks!
Thanks Phil. Ricky, where did you get this idea that if a mic needs more gain, it is more sensitive to the environment ? If so, the SM7b should be super sensitive to all kinds of noise. The NT1 is also very sensitive to room noise, it's not gain hungry though. It is the overall design of the mic that makes it more or less prone to catching unwanted sounds. By the way, the sound difference for guitar is stunning. Was it really the same position ?
Two different kinds of microphones. Sm7b is a dynamic mic while the Neumann is a condenser. Big difference.
Dynamics are more directional and can take more spl. Condensers are more sensitive and omnidirectional.
Dynamic mics need more gain to bring them up to the record level. You don’t gain a condenser the same as a dynamic mic.
I have a 102 and recently borrowed the 103 from a friend to compare. 103 sounds much smoother on my voice, but 102 cuts through much better in a crowded mix especially with distorted rock guitars. 102 also has a less harsh top end to my ears. 102 sounds a bit narrower and focused, while the 103 sounds open but less punchy. Great comparison video 🤘🏻 By the way, what’s the song being sung at the end of the comparison? Incredible, I would like to add it to my favorites!
Gotta say, I agree with you that, at least in this video, I prefer the 102. To my ears, the proximity effect in the recordings you did here, make the 102 sound warmer than the 103. Wasn't expecting that. I'm curious, if I would've bought the 102 instead of the 103, if I still would've sent it back? Probably? After all is said and done, both the 102 and 103 are beautiful mics. But, I think I'll stick with the 440 Pure for now. If you pair the 440 with some analog emulating plugins and saturation, it really is a beautiful combination of detail and warmth. Another great vid! Thanks Phil!
Yeah the 440 is killer! I haven't made a chain specific for it yet but I would be curious to see how easy it would be to pull off a Neumann-like sound on mine :)
I've been using the 102 as my main vocal mic for two years and absolutely love it. Your right though, you have to be careful with the room.
I got the103 and my voice sounded crystal clear but I was shocked at how much noise it picked up, I was hearing everything going on downstairs in my headphones, I felt like a superwoman with a heightened sense. I remembered your video about it's sensitivity. But for some reason, as soon as I started singing and recording into logic, I literally didn't do anything but it somehow cut out all the background noise and literally just collected my pure vocal CLEAN. My room isn't sound treated and I sang into a quality insulator, bought it with it's shock mount and I am more than pleased with it and very glad I didn't have to worry about the background noise. I also used a cheap presonus interface. So if anyone is concerned about its high sensitivity, it seems to sort itself out as you adjust the gains on your interface and it adapts. God bless you in Jesus name.
Thanks for the video. As far as I know, gain has nothing to do with how sensitive a mic is to environmental noise or noise rejection. Sensitivity is determined by the construction/design of the mic and, particularly, its capsule and polar pattern. Gain is just how loud the mic is, and can be an issue if you have a mic with above average self noise or a less than great preamp. Forgive me if I have misunderstood what you were saying. Cheers.
Sensitivity is the lowest SPL the mic is capable of converting into an electric voltage.
Gain is the ratio between input voltage and output voltage on the preamp.
Dynamic range is the difference in SPL between the lowest electrical voltage above the self noise floor of the microphone and the voltage at which the level of distortion generated internal to the microphone (potentially caused by a number of different factors) becomes unacceptable.
Nirvana is a noise floor of 0dB and a completely flat frequency curve between 8Hz - 50Hz. Let me know if you ever find a microphone like that.
I suppose in some way gain is like turning up the microphone's hearing aid lol
Probably my 3rd or 4th time watching this within a year. Thanks for the in-depth analysis. You really do give your viewers more to think about, and that’s a good thing.
Thank you, Phil! This was a super helpful video!
I only have one question: Do you need a shock mount for the spoon?
You're thinking forks.
A shockmount is always recommended....on everything...
Great work, Ricky! Really enjoying your videos!
Another $100 shockmount you can get for the 102 is the MKS4 (works with the Sennheiser MK4 and TLM 103 as well.)
Also the $300 EA1 shockmount isn't just expensive, it's a pain to use, too!
Thanks for the recommendation and also thanks for the nice words!
I like how you put it in perspective. It's not just plug it in anywhere and it'll magically sound great.
i actually prefer the sound on the 102 way more… the 103 on your voice sounds like there’s more mid range actually
This is a great comparison, the most helpful one I’ve found comparing the 102 and 103.
I’m liking how your video style is evolving, it feels high quality, fun to watch, and it’s got plenty of uniqueness that make your videos always worth watching even with all the other quality reviewers I like to watch 👍
Thanks! Yeah I'm trying to continually improve, I think I'm starting to land on something semi-professional, but I still need to keep tweaking. Regardless, appreciate you saying all this :)
This was an awesome video. I happened to need it because I've stumbled between a used TLM 103 and a brand new TLM 102, which are $100 apart. Is it worth the difference to get the TLM 103 in your opinion?
What would be a good condenser that still rejects background noise?
I've found that the LCT 440 by Lewitt performs very well :) its quite a bright microphone, very modern tuning
Great vid! I appreciate the help, just purchased the 102. I definitely preferred the sound in your vocal tests. Looking forward to it 👍
In 0:32 it seems that you want to say that a more sensitive mic does record a bigger part of unwanted noise. This is not true because the relation between "wanted signal" and "unwanted signal" stays the same. How high the unwanted noise is will be definied by polar sensitivity / directional characteristik and technology (condenser, dynamic, dampening ...) and of course by filtering. Besides of that, I agree. Also I would like to state that microfones are not rocket science, not even hig tech, but since decades well known low tech and ridiculously overpriced. With technologies like MatchEQ or FIR fiiltering, you can - concerning the equing - simulate/model different mics very precisely (Townsend Labs e.g. does this). Marketing people are lying the most time of their life.
I think the 102 sounded better when listened to solo. The 103 sounded better when listened to in a mix.
Nice! So maybe that means the 102 could be better for podcasting or VO
Would you say the TLM102 is a realistic accurate sounding mic?
Thanks, Phil, for lending the TLM 103 to our man here! You rock!
I'm really confused now! Is it possible the 102 sounds better? Oh, woe is me... However my pocketbook is responding much better!
From astonishingly windy and sorta weirdly back to normal Ireland! ☘☮🤘🏽🤠👍🏽☮☘
Thank you Sonny! Cheers from Brooklyn as always :)
so what are the recommended mics with more noise canceling?
Hi ! Don't you find that the TLM 102 sounds more like a sensitive dynamic than a condenser? I find it rather narrow sounding and therefore not good enough for professional folk vocals for instance. Am I wrong? It's a shame because I love the sweet velvety character it has.
I preferred the clarity of the 103 in all samples. Thanks Phil.
Nice! You have expensive tastes ;)
@@AudioHaze what a stupid comment.. noob
If you open up that aperture to maybe F2.8 or higher your camera won't struggle as much with the autofocus. Might need more lighting though. love the videos!!!
Are you guys ever gonna put the song at the end out?
That singer is DAMN awesome. Also, whoever wrote the tune is skilled. Creative man. Great writing and performance. I'm an old guy who has run a studio for 30+ years. You guys did that song justice. As far as the mics? Eh...Either mic will work though. I own both, and a U87. And maybe 150 more. Literally. If forced to use any of them, you can make it work. All about what's IN FRONT OF THE MIC. And..ahem...having something actually WORTH recording. Thanks for the cool video. Sub'ing. Keep up the good work.
P.S. I think I watched your sm7b vid...totally agree. Just get a 57 ;-) Unless you're in a radio station. Near an airport. With spinal tap levels of RFI. Then you might actually need the humbucking transformer in an sm7b. Sheesh...great mic, but the hype a while back...damn.
Great Review and comparison!
Thanks Phil!
Thanks as always Rod!
Thank you, Phil. Also, I was convinced the egg carrier was going to be the Neumann shock mount.
HAHAHA omg that would have been so funny, and if it was my shockmount I would've done it
Tip: get whichever mic you can afford, and learn to love it. A tonal change means little. They both have the dynamic range Neumann is famous for and can be placed differently, EQd, etc to get a sound.
0:45 wich? 😭
I have the tlm 102 and have used it for many years. Honestly I did notice sensitivity to background noises but didn't really understand why until your video on it. I am a machinist and I decided to fabricate a sleeve that allows me to use my tlm 102 with my audio technicas at4050's shock mount. I'm excited to see how this works for me. Made it out of a hard plastic called lexan.
Thats sick! Would love to see a picture of that at some point. Enjoy the mic!
@@AudioHaze the project is complete and I do have pics. What's the best way I could send some pics to you?
@@AudioHaze If you ever would like for me to attempt to make something for you I'm sure we could figure it out. We have stubs of this material that don't get used. Only thing is that it does require precise dimensions. Obviously I could get the tlm dimensions no problem but the fit on the shock mount would depend on what shockmount you have that u want to adapt to. Either way I'd be happy to help out for fairly cheap. Keep up the good work ☺️
@@PBMatthews254 Thanks for the offer! I'll let you know :)
Get the plugin clarity by waves… lol
To me the 102 sounds so good and almost rivals u67. Bar the high frequency bump on the 102.
If you can flatten that high end bump it would be as flat as the u67
i have the exact same opinion.
Phil what’s better these 2 or shure 556
Thanks!
Let’s make it proper: #ThanksPhil ❤️ I agree! The TLM 102 should come with a shock mount out of the box without having to pay even more. That being said though: even the TLM103 by default is sold on its own, with no shock mount to support it. At least over here in Germany. Let’s explain the proper naming to unconfuse this matter: the TLM 102 is optionally sold as a Studio Set, which includes the shock mount. The TLM 103 is optionally sold as a Studio Set as well, again, with the shock mount included. But it is also sold as a Mono Set, which includes not only the shock mount, but also a transport case. Weird enough: The case is for two microphones. And for those, who are in the market: It is optionally sold as a stereo set. And this includes a matched pair of TLM 103's, two shock mounts and the same transport case. This comes with a premium, compared to two mono sets.
For those who don’t know: A matched pair consists of two microphones that sound the same. Now some might ask: What is this? I buy the same microphone twice, they should be the same anyways! The thing is though: It is very difficult to make two microphones (even two of the same model) sound the exact same. Almost every microphone out there must be matched in the factory, to really sound exactly like the next of the same brand and product name.
Absolutely! I wasn't as critical on the TLM 103 for not coming with a shockmount because I feel its marketing less as a home studio solution. I feel like at that price, perhaps the extreme sensitivity is ASSUMED to do better in a treated environment. Whereas a home studio mic, as the 102 is marketed as, should be scrutinized more. That being said, COME ON neumann you should give every mic a shockmount standard lol
They totally should. All of their studio microphones desperately need them anyways. All this separation does, is keeping the prices artificially low.
yup I didn't know why I didn't like my voice through my tlm 102 until I got some better sound treatment. as a bonus, it has given me a great appreciation for everything my sm7b does!
edit: just removed the foam from inside the 102 and it's brighter
have you ever tried removing the foam inside the tlm 102 capsule? it would be great to hear some comparisons with and without the foam since it is a very popular mod
I have not! Didn't know that was a thing :)
@@AudioHaze th-cam.com/video/OaXZA35y8nE/w-d-xo.html in case you want to take a look
When I had my 102 - it seemed to pick up absolutely everything in monitoring, but when i recorded, there was significantly less background noise in the recording, next to nill even. I'm looking to get a U87ai and I'm hoping it's not OD sensitive, but I've heard otherwise. Also sibilance isn't in the high end, it's in the upper mids 2-4k usually, which is before the shelf. The 102 is way more sibilant - i'm guessing it's because of the size of the diaphram, but I don't know.
Interesting, what headphone were you using for monitoring? Closed back headphones do make the background noise more extreme for sure
@@AudioHaze Yeah they were closed back
@@who_is_dis you’re wrong, sibilance and clarity is in the 5k range. Not 2k lol
@@Kay_Locc Idk why I put 2k for me its usually 4k and 7k.
For me, it's got to be the 103. I can never get enough of how buttery smooth it is. Definitely holds its own against the U87.
Nice! Yeah its got a beautiful presence to it for sure :)
the tlm102 is better tho lol
Opinião dividida, vcs não estão ajudando 😅
Great comparison! By "home studio" do you mean a totally untreated space? Because I have have a small office that I've covered about 80% of in moving blankets and foam. My audio isn't as tight as a full-blown whisper room would be, but it's pretty good. Is that something that should push me towards the 103?
I suppose thats what I mean yes :) any space that isn't ideal acoustically
4:21 isn't it the opposite of gain hungry? a sm7b is gain hungry, so it benefits from a clean boster
I have to say that after a second listen, one of these microphones definitely made your voice sound comparatively "congested". So odd that even slight deviations in the mids are so noticeable.
True, which mic did you think was the congested one?
And there was me thinking he meant the 102 by congested cos that's how I heard it and that's kinda how I'm hearing it with my 102, it's why I'm here, to see if the 103 is more cleaner lol
cool video.
The truth for me is the price. The problem with mics for me is this: mics of a certain price and up tend to sound so similar, with slight nuanced differences that I feel one can make them work easily no matter which one you choose. And mic placement goes a long way to compensate for slight differences.
I bought the 102 over the 103 years ago because it was signifificantly cheaper and it sounds great. Besides recording myself and recording theater plays I use it in my home office for voip on a mic arm without any shock mount and have never noticed any weird noise from typing, stomping or similar. To me, it's a nonissue
Matusalém, é você?
So if both these mics are not ideal for the home studio setup, what would be a close alternative?
Rode nt1a or nt1. Only like 5db self noise, QUIET ASF!!!!
Bought the 102, paid $200 extra for a Neumann shock mount.
In my apollo twin using the UA Neve pre, I have to crank the white gain knob all the way up to get a decent level from the mic. When I do that, O get extra floor noise.
I have heard the 103 is better with gain levels and background noise. I wanted to buy the 103 at the time but couldnt afford it, so I went with the 102.
Im ready to upgrade and I'm still considering the 103.
Which mic would you suggest for stepping up my game? The tlm103 or the akg c414. At the moment I own the c214 but I would really love having a neumann.
I personally prefer to c414! One of my favorite, most versatile mics out there, plus better at handling less than ideal rooms
Danke!
Thank you as always Rainer! Apologies for the delayed comment .
Just as a random question will a cloud lifter make the 102 less noisy ?
It won't no! The 102 isn't noisy due to any preamp noise or something like that, its just incredibly sensitive to the environment
I thinking the 102 sounds warmer but it has a bit more rumbling in the low end
Bra I bought the tlm103 last year as a main mic and ughhhhhh so much harshness……. Ugh. ONE time I got it decent with a waves c6 multiband for vocals but other than that especially in a vocal booth that is a big no. Got a Austrian audio edge solo, I prefer the tone but still condenser in a booth is boothy and boothy in a way u can’t reallly eq nothin. Even past a 200 high pass filter the character is lost What you think about that lewitt you said was ur best mic? U think for vocals in a booth (whisperroom) I’d be set?
It depends I think on what you want out of your mic! You said the 103 is harsh, well the 440 is even brighter, although brighter doesn't necessarily make it harsher. If you're looking for a different tone, maybe try a darket mic instead of something with a presence boost. Such as the NT1 :)
please tell me I have a poorly prepared room, but I do not like the sharpness, harsh sound of midrange 102, or is it corrected by the equalizer, as 103 behaves in not ideal conditions? .
What does your room and environment look like? Any treatment?
@@AudioHaze poorly prepared, we have a war, Russia in one day fired ballistic missiles all over Ukraine, help us please
@@ПавлоВенгерко I am so sorry my friend, I’m wishing you all the best, stay strong, stay safe, and know the world is on your side. Slava Ukraini.
Does Neumann TLM 102 work well with Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen???
Ohhh Ricky I always forget to ask you! Which mic do you think is better at *rejecting background noise* TLM103 or NT1?
Oooh hard one! They’re both pretty sensitive, and I’d have to do some measurements, but off the top of my head, I think the 103?
Although the 103 has a wider high-frequency boost, It sounds crispier on voice, probably because of the higher gain setting you have to set It with? It also sounds more natural than the 102 to my ears.
What would you buy instead of the 102 for an average home studio?
You're really misusing the term sensitivity. It has nothing to do with environmental or handling noise or high end vs midrange.
I'm surprised I prefered the 102 for the voiceover. Any chance of doing a TLM 103 vs LCT 440 Pure?
Perhaps at some point! I'd have to get a 103 to borrow lol
I got a TLM103 used for 980$ and I'm not regreting it at all. At this price I just bought a Rycote shockmount. It's my go to mic when I don't want to warm up my Telefunken ak47. Since their prices went up a little I'm really glad I jumped on it.
Small diaphragm condenser pencil mics are a good option for home studios with limited treatment and sound proofing without having to resort to a dynamic mic like the SM7B. It’s the best of both worlds. Examples are the excellent Oktava 012, which is Russian made and only available used, Shure SM81, Rode M5
Were u using the 103 shockmount on the 102? And if so, does it fit good?
What mic preamp would you suggest buying? I see that in sweetwater they have a bundle for the tlm103 including a Neve Designs 511, is it worth it?
511 is a great choice! A 1073 is my personal favorite if in the budget
@@AudioHaze What 1073 do you personally own? The Neve?
Thanks Phil! Wait a minute...
GUYS THIS IS PHIL!!
I know this is not related to the content of the video, but I need help.
I accidentally dragged/moved 1 track from 2track of stereo recording, but without "snapping" feature, now it sounds out of phase.
But also somehow it's not possible to re-move it again to the original position (matched with its stereo pair) because of some audio cropping process..
How to "re sync" it again? Is it possible?
Also
Thanks Phill 😆
Oh dude weird, you can't move it back? You could try some phase reversal tricks on EQ's but this probably won't help. Maybe get tricky with the EQ? But there's definitely got to be some way just to move the track back to its original position right?
@@AudioHaze thanks for the reply. I re-record it again! ^^
What are you using as a deesser? It sounds really good.
On this video, nothing! All my mic reviews have no processing
Could you compare the TLM 107 (if you can own it) and the austrian audio OC 818 ? I would like to know how each one sounds versus the other.
I wish I could but i don't have the 107! Its an expensive boy too
SHEESH Phil coming in CLUTCH, also did you get a haircut?
I did, but it was also severely messed up in the vid lol
@@AudioHaze idk what ur on it looks great
What mics are best for noise reduction???
Que pareja de ambos 2 microfonos (el mismo par) me recomendarías para grabar piano acustico un baby grand en una habitación no particularmente bien tratada?
Gracias
I have to compliment you. That is one difficult video to produce. Your explanation of the 2 was excellent. I have a TLM 49 that I'm thinking of selling, only because it's just so large and heavy. So I'm thinking of buying the TLM103. But then when you introduced TLM102, it had me thinking.
Word to the wise: even if you treat a room, if the place is too small and you don’t have very very thick treatment, you still get a boxed in, ringy sort resonance with a very sensitive mic
And with the tlm 107 between 102 and 103? :D
What would be the best mid range sorta Preamp for the 102? Something more vintage sounding maybe @audiohaze
Are you looking for a stand alone preamp or a preamp built into an interface? You can't go wrong with an apollo, but in terms of standalone preamps, a 1073 (or perhaps a warm audio remake if thats too expensive) is sort of the standard.
@@AudioHaze I have a Presonus 1818VSL interface so would be looking for a preamp to go with that. What else would you recommend apart from the 1073? Or would you recommend any of the online preamps you can download? Really love your videos by the way, been watching you for ages!
Not a fan of the 103. The boost starting at around 3.5kHz seems unnecessary; it's a bit too nasally. The 102 by comparison has a nice presence (the lift starts close to 6kHz) but is a bit less strident to my ears.
I tend to agree for spoken word!
much love and respect on this video mannn.. as a fellow music producer and engineer..
I’m wondering if I should try to find a TH-cam channel as good as yours BUT only reviews mics that are strictly for use in home recording studios? And THANKS PHIL!! (Enjoyed the guitar test segment a bazillion times more than the egg on a spoon test commercial!)
Haha good to know :) maybe I'll make more commercials. And this is probably the upper limit for the mics I'll review, at least for a long time, after a certain point I wonder if the mics are even relatable
Which is which in the singing segments?
What a commercial! What is BEST home studio Omni room mic?
any plan to review Schoeps in the future?
Absolutely! Will need to get my hands on some though :)
Hope Scheops provide you samples for review. Their mics are very small and low profile, especially on their table stands, which will be a MUCH BETTER choice for TH-cam/podcast etc IMHO, versus stick a big SM8B in front of your face. Anyhow, looking forward to your review
I think you missunderstood Neumann statement of "home studio". I think they just used that word relative to its price according to the brand
I think its a misleading title, home studio and budget are similar but not the same. As I said, and I stand by, the 102 is not a mic suited for most home studios, whether its more affordable or not.
@@AudioHaze I was not trying to say that anybody was wrong neither misleading. I just said that, one thing its what you could understood as home studio definition (surely you understand that right) but what I was trying to say (I could be totally wrong) its that Neumann does not advertise the product using the word home studio meaning that this mice its going to be an all-round home studio solution. I just think they - never in a disrespected way of course - rather are trying to say that this mice its good professional enough, yet, at a price tag point where even home studios can afford it
*Meaning by home studio non really professional people which normally do not make a living out of the mices and therefore should not have much money to invest "inverted bracket" so yet this quality/price its still available for many home studios with no much economic resources out of their productions if this make sense. This its just only my personal opinion about their definition of home studio on this very matter obviously. :)
I was looking for a proximity effect mic and was leaning towards the TLM 103, but now, I'm considering the TLM 102. Since I have other mics, that makes the 102 more tempting
I don't quite understand the criticism - Neumann markets the microphone with the term "Home Studio". One certainly don't interpret that as just any normal room in a noisy apartment. Home Studio implies non-professional applications - and for that, this thing is excellently suited at a fantastic price point if you want that Neumann sound (as the Sony C-80 is for the Sony sound - for a private individual who isn't earning any money from it, hardly willing to pay thousands of dollars)
I heard all tests with Neumann 30 headphones. My conclusion is:
- Guitar: Neumann 102: I liked more all notes expect bass on . Recording is more close to SDC, but the bass strings are boomy to me.
- Guitar: Neumann 103: its more full and open, probably just need to find another position to get a part of 102 sound. Really liked the way how bass strings sounding.
- Vocal: I just liked overall 103 better to my ears. It seems like it has more dynamic range, and its significantly less noisy, I mentioned how envinroment affects the 102 recording after switching from 103.
Well, guitra recording is very questionable. Low freqs win for 103, all others for 102. Vocal - clear winner 103.
dont care about talking, but 102 seems more bass boosted voice, like on podcast with tons of EQ and effects. 103 hears more natural and pleasant
i like the mic 1 more bassy, what about alternatives to this 2 mics? i think the vanguard is better than tlm 103 and blue bird and bottle cheaper and better alternatives.
I preferred the tlm 102 by a large margin on both headphones and ipad, iphone.
broooooo.... im upgrading my nt1 (adding another mic- TLM 102 is in my radar) but i wish i can truely justify the cost. ocassional rapping/singing/guitar, my voiceover gig (nt1 landed me some gigs).. i picked up the lewit 440- thanks for this comparison (neuman)
Enjoy the Lewitt! Honestly I think the Lewitt is 100% comparable to the Neumann sound (with some EQ'ing)! You're in good hands :)
Seen quite a few comparison vids of these two mics. I have always liked the 102 better for vocals and acoustic guitar. Now I reach the same conclusion in both blind tests. The 102 is my preferred.
Thanks Phil. The TLM103is my top choice in my wish list, but for some reason is incredible expensive in my country (around 2k). At the moment I am happy with my Lewitt 440 Pure for voice and my SM57 for guitars, but indeed I want that Neumann.
440 pure plus 57 is a killer combo tho!
I find the TLM102 very sibilant in comparison, honestly.... and the TLM 103 is already a bright one and with some (cheaper) Preamps really sibilant in the very up highs somehow...
I would wonder, how the Rode NT1a keeps the competition here ? I would bet it would stand in between of them - as I heard some people say that it's bright but not as sibilant as the TLM102 .... ?
In my opinion if you want a bright mic that isn't too sibilant, check out the Lewitt 440! You'll be pleasantly surprised :)
Love your review. Great info, with some tasteful humor mixed in. :)
I am shocked at the 102, it sounds amazing
I checked the comments before watching the video and was a bit confused , Thought you might have changed your name to Phil. Thanks, Phil!
Hahahahah