You’re quite welcome!! I’m increasingly convinced that this is a good medium for getting ideas out there. If I can reach even a few people and make a positive impact, it will have been worth it
Wonderful - so glad you enjoyed it! It’s so funny that you should mention the beguines. I was just looking at my books this morning thinking that I should think about doing the Cloud of Unknowing, Porete, Hildegard and Mechthild. I have a huge list of things I want to do with Eckhart, though. I may do some excursions with the other figures along the way
A most clear and erudite exegesis of this crucial teaching by Meister Eckhart. Thank you! And for the helpful translation and explanation of the 'hoc et hoc ' passage too. I agree with the commentator below who promotes meditation rather than formal, verbal prayer practice. Coming from a Catholic tradition, myself, I have also absorbed a great deal of wisdom from the Advaita Vedanta and Buddhist teachings. It seems to me that if one accepts the profound truth of Oneness with the Ultimate Reality, (tat tvam asi) then one already has Everything: one cannot possibly desire anything else, logically. Therefore, to be asking the Ultimate Reality/God for something, is tantamount to putting the 'something' (hoc et hoc) above God. Furthermore, it would be illogical to be telling God what to do or what one needs (as if God doesn't already know!) Just TO BE, it would seem, is prayer in itself. Silent meditation, therefore, would be the perfect way to pray; to be one with the Ultimate Reality. Thank you and be blessed!
You're very welcome! Yes, the nice thing about the Eastern traditions is that people find cause to call them "practices" rather than "religions" at times, which is useful actually since it gives them permission to study meditation and similar spiritual "practices." From what I've seen, the fence is lowest in Judaism where people commonly call themselves by both traditions' names without any sense of contradiction
Enjoyed the exegesis. Your inclusion on the Church's concern on the way parts of Meister Eckhart's teachings on prayer might be "received" brought to mind how the Catholic Church (during my childhood) did not promote reading of the Bible by the laity. Many Elder Catholics of a certain age still do not feel comfortable reading the Bible, curtailing their curiosity about their faith and limiting their religious knowledge.
That’s very interesting. This isn’t something that gets talked about a lot as far as I can tell. We tend to be more concerned with concrete claims and truth rather than how something is received, yet it is critically important
I want to pray to God. Please teach me the way. "Don’t bother God, He’s got his own problems. Don’t you see whatsoever He creates dies? Keep your problems to yourself. Why should one want to pray to God? God does not need your prayers. You may be in need of those prayers, but they will not be anything more than vocalizing your desires, your demands, expressing your complaints. That’s what people are doing in the name of prayer - complaining and complaining and complaining, and saying “Things should not be like this.” Trying to help God to become a little more wise. No, prayer is not needed, what is needed is meditation. Meditation has no reference to God. Meditation transforms you; it takes no account of God. And you don’t know about God in any way - how will you pray to something unknown, something x-y-z? In what language are you going to pray to God? You don’t know Him at all. And there are people who say “By praying to God you will come to know Him.” But prayer presupposes as a requirement, basic requirement, that you should know, only then can you pray. You should know, only then can you love. How can you love an unknown God? Your prayer will be formal; it will be nothing but a cliché. Meditation is a totally different dimension. Kabir will suggest meditation, Buddha has suggested meditation, I suggest meditation. Meditation is a different approach - it has nothing to do with God, it has something to do with you, with your mind. It has to create a silence within you, a deep utter silence. In that utter silence you will start feeling the presence of God. Prayer is a consequence of real meditation. Only a meditator can pray - because he knows, because he feels, because now God’s presence is not just an argument, not a logical thing, but something experienced, something lived. And then prayer is no more a complaint. Then prayer is a surrender, then prayer is pure love - no desire attached to it, no conditions. It is sheer gratefulness.m Let prayer come after meditation. Meditate. Meditation will prepare your heart, it will cleanse you. It will cleanse you of your thoughts, it will throw out all the rubbish that you have been carrying in your head for ages, for lives; it will make space for prayer to happen. Meditation is like preparing a ground for a rose bed: prayer is like a rose. First you have to prepare the ground - you have to remove the weeds, you have to change the soil, you have to throw out all the stones. Meditation prepares the bed. And only in a prepared bed can you plant roses. Otherwise weeds will overrun your roses and weeds will exploit the whole soil and your roses will not get much - they will be poor roses. And if there are stones in the ground the growth of the roses will be stunted. First prepare the ground, then prayer happens on its own accord. Prayer is something that you cannot do. Meditation is something that you can do, because it has something to do with your mind - it is your mind, you can do something with it. Prayer has something to do with God. God is beyond, far away, one does not know where. What is His address? What is His name? Where to send these prayers? So you can go on praying to empty skies and deep down you know that this is all futile. But maybe… perhaps it works, perhaps it doesn’t work, but it costs nothing, so one goes on praying. First prepare yourself in meditation. Meditation means a thoughtless silence, a thoughtless awareness. Peace. When that peace is there, one day prayer bursts forth. You simply see a bud opening in your being, your heart becomes a flower and there is much fragrance. That fragrance is prayer. You bow down. Now God is no more far away, He is very close by - you are bridged by your flowering. Prayers done without meditation are formal, foolish. Prayers done without meditation are meaningless - a sheer wastage of time and energy and life. I teach you meditation. And prayer cannot be taught. When meditation has happened, one day you stumble upon prayer. Prayer is grace. Meditation can be of effort, but prayer happens effortlessly. Forget about prayer and forget about God; you have first to do great work upon yourself. Be absolutely concerned with only one thing: how to drop the mind. In the dropping of the mind is all - prayer will arise. Prayer is a reward to a meditator; it is a consequence. About this, the Eastern mystics are very clear - from Patanjali to Krishnamurti, they all teach meditation. And the reason is that the work has to be with the human mind. Prayer means a dialogue with the universal mind. Wait, be patient, first be capable of that dialogue. And then you need not go anywhere - when you are silent you hear that still small voice within your heart. In fact the dialogue is always started by God from the other side. You cannot start the dialogue, you can only be receptive; on your end a great receptivity is needed. And the moment you are ready, suddenly something is connected and the bell starts ringing. But the call comes from the other side. It is God who calls Adam “Where are you? Where are you hiding?” When Adam committed his sin, his mistake - when he ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge - he became very much afraid of God. God had prohibited it; now he had betrayed, he had been disobedient. He started feeling guilty. And God started searching for him - and he was hiding behind this bush and that, and God was shouting all over the Garden of Eden “Adam, where are you?” Since that day, God has been calling and you are hiding behind this bush or that. You need not have any prayer. You only need a silent heart which can hear the shouting God, the call of God. He is calling you, you need not call Him. Just be a deep receptivity. That’s what meditation is all about, it makes you receptive. In that receptivity you start hearing God talking to you. Real prayer is when God talks to you, unreal prayer is when you talk to God."
It’s really interesting to see how prayer becomes meditation in some forms. This was especially evident with Teresa of Avila. Eckhart, interestingly, doesn’t advocate a specific form of meditation-like activity…. Although… Now, that said, you might appreciate the observation that Eckhart’s prayer of gratitude may be analogous to Dogen’s shikantaza (“just sitting”) in Soto Zen. It’s no coincidence, I think, that so many Buddhists and zen practitioners like Eckhart. Walshe, one of the major translators, was a Theravadin buddhist.
@@goodtothinkwith I used to practice Zen and sit shikantaza. I'm finding a lot of inspiration in your videos and "just sitting" in a Christian mystic context. It's something I've always been intrigued by and never really understood what it was about. Thanks.
It's only illogical because you lack the theological basis in which to understand the terms employed. The paradoxical nature of that affirmation stems from a duality-based understanding. From a non-dual perspective (The One), all paradoxes may be reconciled. The point Eckhart tries to make must be understood in Neoplatonic terms, as much of Christian Theology. There's no real separation and therefore no real detachment from the One, as everything there Is, is of the One. The perception of detachment arises from one's own sense of individuality, which naturally conditions oneself to perceive oneself as separated from everything else (The One). When Evil is mentioned, it refers to this individual sense of separation. If there's no separation from the One, nothing is lacking from oneself, therefore there's nothing to be asked from It. To be grateful is enough of a prayer, as to be as the One is to be Complete. Much of the metaphysical/philosophical basis of Christian Theology was borrowed from Neoplatonism, which in turn borrowed from the ancient oriental non-dual schools of thought like Advaita-Vedanta. Cheers
@@liradorfeu Thankyou for this explanation ,but I dont think I see the purpose , is being detached or attached a mental state that we can be aware of ?
@@ultrasignificantfootnote3378 To try to put it simply, what's being proposed by Echkart is the Non-Dual nature of reality i.e God/The One.Everything is one, there's no separation at all. There's only apparent separation or perceived separation by the individual. The individual perceives to be separated from everything else but that separation is only apparent, not real. This non-dual understanding of reality is transcendental to our individuality, so in order to be realized, one needs to transcend that individuality. There are mystical or extatic states that can lead us to the direct experience of such realization but it can also be achieved by logical and rational means. Imagine various clay pots and vases, they all posess their own identity in a way, some are cups, others vases, etc... But what are they all made of? What is their substance? What's their nature? Clay. Clay is their nature. Even though there is an apparent diversity of shapes and forms, they're all made of the same substance, they're all of one nature. This is in the most reduced and simplistic way what Eckhart is trying to convey. So how can something that is detached be one with something else? The answer is, there was never anythig detached to begin with... If you're not so inclined to the Christian clothing of Eckhart's thought do some research on the eastern tradition of Advaita-Vedanta. Cheers
Thank you for doing this. People need to open their minds and listen to their heart and soul, as God recides in us all!
You’re quite welcome!! I’m increasingly convinced that this is a good medium for getting ideas out there. If I can reach even a few people and make a positive impact, it will have been worth it
awesome lecture! would definitely love a future discussion on the beguines :)
Wonderful - so glad you enjoyed it! It’s so funny that you should mention the beguines. I was just looking at my books this morning thinking that I should think about doing the Cloud of Unknowing, Porete, Hildegard and Mechthild. I have a huge list of things I want to do with Eckhart, though. I may do some excursions with the other figures along the way
So well done, thank you from the bottom of my heart
A most clear and erudite exegesis of this crucial teaching by Meister Eckhart. Thank you! And for the helpful translation and explanation of the 'hoc et hoc ' passage too.
I agree with the commentator below who promotes meditation rather than formal, verbal prayer practice. Coming from a Catholic tradition, myself, I have also absorbed a great deal of wisdom from the Advaita Vedanta and Buddhist teachings. It seems to me that if one accepts the profound truth of Oneness with the Ultimate Reality, (tat tvam asi) then one already has Everything: one cannot possibly desire anything else, logically. Therefore, to be asking the Ultimate Reality/God for something, is tantamount to putting the 'something' (hoc et hoc) above God. Furthermore, it would be illogical to be telling God what to do or what one needs (as if God doesn't already know!) Just TO BE, it would seem, is prayer in itself. Silent meditation, therefore, would be the perfect way to pray; to be one with the Ultimate Reality. Thank you and be blessed!
You're very welcome! Yes, the nice thing about the Eastern traditions is that people find cause to call them "practices" rather than "religions" at times, which is useful actually since it gives them permission to study meditation and similar spiritual "practices." From what I've seen, the fence is lowest in Judaism where people commonly call themselves by both traditions' names without any sense of contradiction
Enjoyed the exegesis. Your inclusion on the Church's concern on the way parts of Meister Eckhart's teachings on prayer might be "received" brought to mind how the Catholic Church (during my childhood) did not promote reading of the Bible by the laity. Many Elder Catholics of a certain age still do not feel comfortable reading the Bible, curtailing their curiosity about their faith and limiting their religious knowledge.
That’s very interesting. This isn’t something that gets talked about a lot as far as I can tell. We tend to be more concerned with concrete claims and truth rather than how something is received, yet it is critically important
I want to pray to God. Please teach me the way.
"Don’t bother God, He’s got his own problems. Don’t you see whatsoever He creates dies? Keep your problems to yourself. Why should one want to pray to God? God does not need your prayers. You may be in need of those prayers, but they will not be anything more than vocalizing your desires, your demands, expressing your complaints. That’s what people are doing in the name of prayer - complaining and complaining and complaining, and saying “Things should not be like this.” Trying to help God to become a little more wise.
No, prayer is not needed, what is needed is meditation. Meditation has no reference to God. Meditation transforms you; it takes no account of God. And you don’t know about God in any way - how will you pray to something unknown, something x-y-z? In what language are you going to pray to God? You don’t know Him at all. And there are people who say “By praying to God you will come to know Him.” But prayer presupposes as a requirement, basic requirement, that you should know, only then can you pray. You should know, only then can you love. How can you love an unknown God? Your prayer will be formal; it will be nothing but a cliché.
Meditation is a totally different dimension. Kabir will suggest meditation, Buddha has suggested meditation, I suggest meditation. Meditation is a different approach - it has nothing to do with God, it has something to do with you, with your mind. It has to create a silence within you, a deep utter silence. In that utter silence you will start feeling the presence of God.
Prayer is a consequence of real meditation. Only a meditator can pray - because he knows, because he feels, because now God’s presence is not just an argument, not a logical thing, but something experienced, something lived. And then prayer is no more a complaint. Then prayer is a surrender, then prayer is pure love - no desire attached to it, no conditions. It is sheer gratefulness.m
Let prayer come after meditation. Meditate. Meditation will prepare your heart, it will cleanse you. It will cleanse you of your thoughts, it will throw out all the rubbish that you have been carrying in your head for ages, for lives; it will make space for prayer to happen. Meditation is like preparing a ground for a rose bed: prayer is like a rose. First you have to prepare the ground - you have to remove the weeds, you have to change the soil, you have to throw out all the stones. Meditation prepares the bed. And only in a prepared bed can you plant roses. Otherwise weeds will overrun your roses and weeds will exploit the whole soil and your roses will not get much - they will be poor roses. And if there are stones in the ground the growth of the roses will be stunted.
First prepare the ground, then prayer happens on its own accord. Prayer is something that you cannot do. Meditation is something that you can do, because it has something to do with your mind - it is your mind, you can do something with it. Prayer has something to do with God. God is beyond, far away, one does not know where. What is His address? What is His name? Where to send these prayers? So you can go on praying to empty skies and deep down you know that this is all futile. But maybe… perhaps it works, perhaps it doesn’t work, but it costs nothing, so one goes on praying.
First prepare yourself in meditation. Meditation means a thoughtless silence, a thoughtless awareness. Peace. When that peace is there, one day prayer bursts forth. You simply see a bud opening in your being, your heart becomes a flower and there is much fragrance. That fragrance is prayer. You bow down. Now God is no more far away, He is very close by - you are bridged by your flowering.
Prayers done without meditation are formal, foolish. Prayers done without meditation are meaningless - a sheer wastage of time and energy and life. I teach you meditation. And prayer cannot be taught. When meditation has happened, one day you stumble upon prayer. Prayer is grace. Meditation can be of effort, but prayer happens effortlessly.
Forget about prayer and forget about God; you have first to do great work upon yourself. Be absolutely concerned with only one thing: how to drop the mind. In the dropping of the mind is all - prayer will arise. Prayer is a reward to a meditator; it is a consequence.
About this, the Eastern mystics are very clear - from Patanjali to Krishnamurti, they all teach meditation. And the reason is that the work has to be with the human mind. Prayer means a dialogue with the universal mind. Wait, be patient, first be capable of that dialogue. And then you need not go anywhere - when you are silent you hear that still small voice within your heart. In fact the dialogue is always started by God from the other side. You cannot start the dialogue, you can only be receptive; on your end a great receptivity is needed. And the moment you are ready, suddenly something is connected and the bell starts ringing. But the call comes from the other side.
It is God who calls Adam “Where are you? Where are you hiding?”
When Adam committed his sin, his mistake - when he ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge - he became very much afraid of God. God had prohibited it; now he had betrayed, he had been disobedient. He started feeling guilty. And God started searching for him - and he was hiding behind this bush and that, and God was shouting all over the Garden of Eden “Adam, where are you?”
Since that day, God has been calling and you are hiding behind this bush or that.
You need not have any prayer. You only need a silent heart which can hear the shouting God, the call of God. He is calling you, you need not call Him. Just be a deep receptivity. That’s what meditation is all about, it makes you receptive. In that receptivity you start hearing God talking to you. Real prayer is when God talks to you, unreal prayer is when you talk to God."
It’s really interesting to see how prayer becomes meditation in some forms. This was especially evident with Teresa of Avila. Eckhart, interestingly, doesn’t advocate a specific form of meditation-like activity…. Although…
Now, that said, you might appreciate the observation that Eckhart’s prayer of gratitude may be analogous to Dogen’s shikantaza (“just sitting”) in Soto Zen. It’s no coincidence, I think, that so many Buddhists and zen practitioners like Eckhart. Walshe, one of the major translators, was a Theravadin buddhist.
@@goodtothinkwith I used to practice Zen and sit shikantaza. I'm finding a lot of inspiration in your videos and "just sitting" in a Christian mystic context. It's something I've always been intrigued by and never really understood what it was about. Thanks.
What about praying for others?
What should prayer be? Was Eckhart right?
He was, I guess, neither right nor wrong.
Attachment is the root of all suffering.
How can something that is detached be one with something else ? , Religious claims are usualy very illogical to me.
It's only illogical because you lack the theological basis in which to understand the terms employed.
The paradoxical nature of that affirmation stems from a duality-based understanding.
From a non-dual perspective (The One), all paradoxes may be reconciled.
The point Eckhart tries to make must be understood in Neoplatonic terms, as much of Christian Theology.
There's no real separation and therefore no real detachment from the One, as everything there Is, is of the One.
The perception of detachment arises from one's own sense of individuality, which naturally conditions oneself to perceive oneself as separated from everything else (The One).
When Evil is mentioned, it refers to this individual sense of separation.
If there's no separation from the One, nothing is lacking from oneself, therefore there's nothing to be asked from It.
To be grateful is enough of a prayer, as to be as the One is to be Complete.
Much of the metaphysical/philosophical basis of Christian Theology was borrowed from Neoplatonism, which in turn borrowed from the ancient oriental non-dual schools of thought like Advaita-Vedanta.
Cheers
@@liradorfeu Thankyou for this explanation ,but I dont think I see the purpose , is being detached or attached a mental state that we can be aware of ?
@@ultrasignificantfootnote3378 To try to put it simply, what's being proposed by Echkart is the Non-Dual nature of reality i.e God/The One.Everything is one, there's no separation at all. There's only apparent separation or perceived separation by the individual. The individual perceives to be separated from everything else but that separation is only apparent, not real. This non-dual understanding of reality is transcendental to our individuality, so in order to be realized, one needs to transcend that individuality. There are mystical or extatic states that can lead us to the direct experience of such realization but it can also be achieved by logical and rational means.
Imagine various clay pots and vases, they all posess their own identity in a way, some are cups, others vases, etc... But what are they all made of? What is their substance? What's their nature? Clay. Clay is their nature. Even though there is an apparent diversity of shapes and forms, they're all made of the same substance, they're all of one nature.
This is in the most reduced and simplistic way what Eckhart is trying to convey.
So how can something that is detached be one with something else? The answer is, there was never anythig detached to begin with...
If you're not so inclined to the Christian clothing of Eckhart's thought do some research on the eastern tradition of Advaita-Vedanta.
Cheers
I suppose the key to it is, God is not something else.
@@Raymond-d2l7n Is it possible you are just imagining God ?