In my mind: Value for money equals the amount of money you pay Vs. the amount of motorcycle you get.(tech features, how it handles, how many accesories comes with as standard, how reliable it is, how the waranty works and for some, how much the name weights in the motorcycle culture). When you pay 20k for a motorcycle without a rear seat and pegs...that is not value. Speaking of Harleys, the Sport Glide is a good Value for money in my book.(compared to other Harleys.
Harley is and always be the motorcycle to aspire to. An iconic brand with history. If you want it and yes its expensive, you'll find a way. I found a way 4 times.. shiny side up 👍
Just bought my second one the first was new $29k + 5k for stage 1 to make it sound like a Harley 😂 had the sense to buy my second one used low kms and the owner dropped coin on all the upgrades so saved for once and very happy with bike👍
I’m a 63 old Aussie. Rode so many bikes in the 70’s. Never a Harley. Last year, out of the blue I accidentally purchased a 2004 Fatboy. I feel 40 years younger riding this bike. When I get home my wife tells me I look younger, brighter and happy. I admire anyone who rides. It’s freedom 🙏 It’s my stress release.
A Rolex shows you the time - so does a Casio. However it’s about status rather than function. Sadly, people judge and feel judged by possessions, it’s a game we all play.
Studies have shown that just hearing or seeing the name Rolex results in a significantly greater release of dopamine in the brain compared to Casio. It has also been proven that Rolex buyers will purchase more expensive boat shoes, golf clubs, expensive liquors, and Kobe beef than Casio buyers. 😂
As a person who loves watches, I would say you are partially correct. There most definitely are people who view a Rolex as a status symbol. For watch enthusiasts, however, they love and value Rolex watches because of the quality of the watch, its horological history, and its engineering.
I think if you’re into the Harley culture, then there is a lot of value for you. I’m more into using a motorcycle like a tool. I picked the motorcycle based on the purpose of the motorcycle for my environment. I may have to own multiple motorcycles, depending on the purpose of the motorcycle for me. So after I sit down and define the purpose of the motorcycle, I decide on the features that I want on that motorcycle. Then I look out into the market to see what motorcycles fit that purpose the best. After that, it’s just based on cost not just of the motorcycle but maintenance cost, cost of accessories and modifications, fuel cost, etc. The culture is at the bottom of my list and I’ve been very happy with the motorcycles that I’ve owned in my life. Because the motorcycle serves the purpose I needed to serve, which enhances my life. Nothing against Harley Davidson, but I think they could do a lot better and I feel the new bike cost is unsustainable. I would’ve never imagined that I would walk into a dealership and the MSRP is 22 23,000. Then with all the Harley fees and markups it’s $30,000.
It is nice hearing an HD rider that isn't obnoxiously biased and refuses to see the faults of HD bikes and the company. Differentiating bikers that ride Harleys from Harley cultists; the amount of closed minds among the HD cultists is mind boggling. They seem to wrap their whole identity up in the HD brand so they take criticism of HD as a personal attack.
I no longer feel the Harley offers value for money. That died with the Evo Sportster. People talk about how Harley's retain their value but that's only true if you keep your motorcycle completely stock wish nobody does. All of that extra money you dumped into it is just gone, wasted.
Nicely said..i have 96 softail custom and 05 softail TC...absolutely like...96 I'm able to fix it..recently had some electrical issues and was able to fix em....new models nope..carburetor is to rebuild rejet.....older models are definitely much better evolution engine classic sounds
I've has five of them, the last three I bought new, and they've all been good value for money. Not super expensive to buy, very reliable, easy to maintain and work on and not that l needed to buy many but parts weren't super expensive either. It's ten years since I last bought a new one but other than a Softail Standard or maybe a Streetbob they're definitely not value for money anymore.
Having owned a lot of bikes and currently riding a '23 road glide I notice one odd thing. Most bikes try to conform to the rider but harley forces the rider to conform to it. Big power, big sound, slow as a turtle, but pleasant to ride. Good looking too. Having half of all folks wishing they were in my place?....priceless!
"Value" is largely subjective, at least in the context of motorcycles. It's easy to compare the price and nutritional benefit of a pound of chicken and a pound of beef and determine which product is better "value". Perhaps, when it comes to motorcycles, "value" is a little more difficult to determine. Obviously, certain designs suit certain use cases. Obviously, certain technology comes at a premium. And that doesn't necessarily mean up to date, latest and greatest technology, either. It can be older technology that you pay for rather than newer. "Value" is determined by the buyer with the big fat wallet that's ready to go on an instant diet. It's determined by the mug that's prepared to sign up for 60 months of "easy" repayments. And it's determined by the buyer that picks up these bikes second hand. Everything has "value". To whom it has value to is the question. If Harley Davidson can keep pumping out bikes, at a profit, and people keep buying them, it stands to reason... they're good value. If they can't, then there's some thinking to be done. If Honda keeps pumping out Super Cubs and people keep buying them, they're good value. if they can't, then it's back to the drawing board for Honda. Neither the Harley nor the Honda a better value than the other. Value is determined by the market. Would I buy a Harley? Honestly, no. I want a Harley and I can afford a Harley, but to me they're just not good value. I'm not buying a Honda Super Cub either. I can afford one, I want one, but they're just not good value. I'll stick with my nearly 10 year old W800. It's worthless to most people, but a great value proposition to me. Long live value and one's ability to determine it all by themselves.
The year 2000 , my Buddy went to take the tour of the Harley plant , he was bummed out when he came home ! Said all the big shipping boxes the parts came in said China on them , and because of that ? I bought a Victory, made in America ! Almost wasted my money on a new CVO , bought a Sport Cruiser , had it built to stage 4 by North Star Cycles , Guy was on the original design team for Victory , all machine work , 112 hp , 118 ftlbs of torque on the dyno , original bike came with all the best of everything from the factory , 24 years old now , still not one leak ,
I just got the new CVO street Glide. It’s an incredible bike. Considering how much I spent on my last street glide to upgrade it the way I want, it’s actually a better value to buy the bike with all the bells and whistles already on the bike for my taste and riding style. It’s all subjective depending on the person’s budget and riding preferences. Who gives a fuck about anybody else’s opinion all that matters is that you’re happy and we’re all enjoying two wheels.
Yep I’ve had Harley’s for years got A 2020 road glide M8 was shocked on quality of suspension power and paint quality had to spend a lot to get it up to power looks and performance. Harley always Win Win because we make them look better run faster but it’s still a Harley and they get the promotion still !!! also how can they justify a 20 thousand plus bike and u have to pay extra to have an alarm with siren that is ridiculous do the insurance companies know about this skin flint scam 😮
I have a 25 -year old BMW R1100S that is ridiculous value to me - it only cost me £2K, it keeps up with anything on the road and gets lots of attention. A friend of mine has a £25K Rocket 3 that is ridiculous value for him; It rides superbly and is always a talking point! Value is a subjective thing and we should respect the opinions & values of others - and that is the point that I believe Adam Sandoval was missing. To be fair to Yammie Noob, he was asking very fair questions and was respectful of Harley-Davidsons at the same time. Still, I'm sure they've both had a lot of engagement on their respective YT channels...😉
Let's remember the discontinued FLHS and the discontinued FLHT, both the best bang for the HD buck, which goes against the Company's "profit at all cost" policy.
In today’s situation HD is not the best value for sure, all prices rising , motorcycle industry and car industry struggles , smaller capacity bikes seems to be more popular now
I used to think HD had a good resale value but thats not the case..I have a 2021 HD I bought new for $18,900 and I took it to the dealer to see what it was worth and they would not pay more than 11k for it..3 years old with 2800 miles on it..I was surprised it was worth $8000 LESS in 3 years.
If a motorcycle manufacturer made a perfect bike, people will still “upgrade “ it. My criticism with HD is, they don’t even try anymore. Like the exhaust systems are total cheap garbage. My Road Glide clutch has a totally unacceptably clutch pull. I installed a Muller power pull to make the clutch pull half of hard as stock. Both it and the stock clutch pushrod actuator look identical but the Muller has revised geometry that relieves the hard pull. Why didn’t HD do this from the factory? Their attitude has become “the aftermarket will fix it” People will say “buy Honda if you want value”. It’s of no value to me if it’s not something I like.
You don't think there's value in a touring HD because you live in the UK where such touring rigs are really overkill. Anything is acceptable going for 60 mile rides at 40 mph. Come to the US where you can ride thousands of miles. Many here do a thousand miles a day for a badge. And put your wife on the back for such a trip. And add maintenance into your calculations. Now suddenly, HDs are more valuable than just about anything else. I was just watching a BMW mechanic yesterday lament about how many specialized tools you need to work on a BMW. And all the electronic crap you have to pay a dealer just to reset and what not. He's pretty sure that's why simple, good looking, & inexpensive bikes like Royal Enfields have been cleaning up. What the buyers of those bikes don't realize is that they will need to be tearing into it every 3k miles. That may be a long time for fair weather bikers, but it's barely a long weekend for a lot of us on Harleys. ;)
It's worth what someone else will pay for it. If that figure disappoints you then ask yourself if it is worth more than that to you. If so, keep it and ride it. If you spent too much on it in the first place, ride it into the ground and enjoy it. Don't be the guy who gets milked by the dealer every couple of years. Good luck and stay safe all.
Is "value" a one size fits all commodity? I reckon not the same for all. Who's buying? Some value having a drink, some prefer the valuable experience of a nice Woodford Reserve. The more "value" one adds in (Harley) accessories, in a friend's experience, anyway, he found that added dongles increases the value, at least, up-to-and-including... ZERO. Leave it alone, and, upon trade/resale, you'll get the most actual value. Of the 20-something bikes I've owned, the Harley's held value best. Even the "staged" bikes, bring no more in value (unless a 'special' sort of buyer pulls up...) Is visceral value more valuable than monetary value? If you value the ride...yep. P.S. a big fan of "appropriate" levels of tech, here.
You pay a lot for the heritage and the lore. There's nothing wrong with that. In terms of transportation value per dollar Harley has never been a good value. Ducati, MV Agusta, and arguably BMW aren't terribly good value for money either.
In my mind: Value for money equals the amount of money you pay Vs. the amount of motorcycle you get.(tech features, how it handles, how many accesories comes with as standard, how reliable it is, how the waranty works and for some, how much the name weights in the motorcycle culture). When you pay 20k for a motorcycle without a rear seat and pegs...that is not value. Speaking of Harleys, the Sport Glide is a good Value for money in my book.(compared to other Harleys.
Harley is and always be the motorcycle to aspire to. An iconic brand with history. If you want it and yes its expensive, you'll find a way. I found a way 4 times.. shiny side up 👍
Just bought my second one the first was new $29k + 5k for stage 1 to make it sound like a Harley 😂 had the sense to buy my second one used low kms and the owner dropped coin on all the upgrades so saved for once and very happy with bike👍
I’m a 63 old Aussie.
Rode so many bikes in the 70’s. Never a Harley.
Last year, out of the blue I accidentally purchased a 2004 Fatboy.
I feel 40 years younger riding this bike.
When I get home my wife tells me I look younger, brighter and happy.
I admire anyone who rides. It’s freedom 🙏
It’s my stress release.
A Rolex shows you the time - so does a Casio. However it’s about status rather than function. Sadly, people judge and feel judged by possessions, it’s a game we all play.
Studies have shown that just hearing or seeing the name Rolex results in a significantly greater release of dopamine in the brain compared to Casio. It has also been proven that Rolex buyers will purchase more expensive boat shoes, golf clubs, expensive liquors, and Kobe beef than Casio buyers. 😂
As a person who loves watches, I would say you are partially correct. There most definitely are people who view a Rolex as a status symbol. For watch enthusiasts, however, they love and value Rolex watches because of the quality of the watch, its horological history, and its engineering.
I think if you’re into the Harley culture, then there is a lot of value for you. I’m more into using a motorcycle like a tool. I picked the motorcycle based on the purpose of the motorcycle for my environment. I may have to own multiple motorcycles, depending on the purpose of the motorcycle for me. So after I sit down and define the purpose of the motorcycle, I decide on the features that I want on that motorcycle. Then I look out into the market to see what motorcycles fit that purpose the best. After that, it’s just based on cost not just of the motorcycle but maintenance cost, cost of accessories and modifications, fuel cost, etc. The culture is at the bottom of my list and I’ve been very happy with the motorcycles that I’ve owned in my life. Because the motorcycle serves the purpose I needed to serve, which enhances my life. Nothing against Harley Davidson, but I think they could do a lot better and I feel the new bike cost is unsustainable. I would’ve never imagined that I would walk into a dealership and the MSRP is 22 23,000. Then with all the Harley fees and markups it’s $30,000.
It is nice hearing an HD rider that isn't obnoxiously biased and refuses to see the faults of HD bikes and the company. Differentiating bikers that ride Harleys from Harley cultists; the amount of closed minds among the HD cultists is mind boggling. They seem to wrap their whole identity up in the HD brand so they take criticism of HD as a personal attack.
I no longer feel the Harley offers value for money. That died with the Evo Sportster.
People talk about how Harley's retain their value but that's only true if you keep your motorcycle completely stock wish nobody does. All of that extra money you dumped into it is just gone, wasted.
Nicely said..i have 96 softail custom and 05 softail TC...absolutely like...96 I'm able to fix it..recently had some electrical issues and was able to fix em....new models nope..carburetor is to rebuild rejet.....older models are definitely much better evolution engine classic sounds
I've has five of them, the last three I bought new, and they've all been good value for money.
Not super expensive to buy, very reliable, easy to maintain and work on and not that l needed to buy many but parts weren't super expensive either.
It's ten years since I last bought a new one but other than a Softail Standard or maybe a Streetbob they're definitely not value for money anymore.
Having owned a lot of bikes and currently riding a '23 road glide I notice one odd thing.
Most bikes try to conform to the rider but harley forces the rider to conform to it.
Big power, big sound, slow as a turtle, but pleasant to ride.
Good looking too.
Having half of all folks wishing they were in my place?....priceless!
"Value" is largely subjective, at least in the context of motorcycles. It's easy to compare the price and nutritional benefit of a pound of chicken and a pound of beef and determine which product
is better "value". Perhaps, when it comes to motorcycles, "value" is a little more difficult to determine. Obviously, certain designs suit certain use cases. Obviously, certain technology comes at a premium. And that doesn't necessarily mean up to date, latest and greatest technology, either. It can be older technology that you pay for rather than newer.
"Value" is determined by the buyer with the big fat wallet that's ready to go on an instant diet. It's determined by the mug that's prepared to sign up for 60 months of "easy" repayments.
And it's determined by the buyer that picks up these bikes second hand.
Everything has "value". To whom it has value to is the question. If Harley Davidson can keep pumping out bikes, at a profit, and people keep buying them, it stands to reason... they're good value. If they can't, then there's some thinking to be done. If Honda keeps pumping out Super Cubs and people keep buying them, they're good value. if they can't, then it's back to the drawing board for Honda. Neither the Harley nor the Honda a better value than the other. Value is determined by the market.
Would I buy a Harley? Honestly, no. I want a Harley and I can afford a Harley, but to me they're just not good value. I'm not buying a Honda Super Cub either. I can afford one, I want one, but they're just not good value. I'll stick with my nearly 10 year old W800. It's worthless to most people, but a great value proposition to me. Long live value and one's ability to determine it all by themselves.
The year 2000 , my Buddy went to take the tour of the Harley plant , he was bummed out when he came home ! Said all the big shipping boxes the parts came in said China on them , and because of that ? I bought a Victory, made in America ! Almost wasted my money on a new CVO , bought a Sport Cruiser , had it built to stage 4 by North Star Cycles , Guy was on the original design team for Victory , all machine work , 112 hp , 118 ftlbs of torque on the dyno , original bike came with all the best of everything from the factory , 24 years old now , still not one leak ,
This was, as per usual, a very fair and well thought out presentation.
I love them have 3 a 22 lowrider S ,
23 streetglide and a 24 fatbob
Once was a sport bike rider.
I just got the new CVO street Glide. It’s an incredible bike. Considering how much I spent on my last street glide to upgrade it the way I want, it’s actually a better value to buy the bike with all the bells and whistles already on the bike for my taste and riding style. It’s all subjective depending on the person’s budget and riding preferences. Who gives a fuck about anybody else’s opinion all that matters is that you’re happy and we’re all enjoying two wheels.
Yes, tons of value in the used Harley market in the USA. Amazing bargain prices.
I love my 2016 Harley 48
Yep I’ve had Harley’s for years got A 2020 road glide M8 was shocked on quality of suspension power and paint quality had to spend a lot to get it up to power looks and performance. Harley always Win Win because we make them look better run faster but it’s still a Harley and they get the promotion still !!! also how can they justify a 20 thousand plus bike and u have to pay extra to have an alarm with siren that is ridiculous do the insurance companies know about this skin flint scam 😮
I have a 25 -year old BMW R1100S that is ridiculous value to me - it only cost me £2K, it keeps up with anything on the road and gets lots of attention.
A friend of mine has a £25K Rocket 3 that is ridiculous value for him; It rides superbly and is always a talking point!
Value is a subjective thing and we should respect the opinions & values of others - and that is the point that I believe Adam Sandoval was missing.
To be fair to Yammie Noob, he was asking very fair questions and was respectful of Harley-Davidsons at the same time.
Still, I'm sure they've both had a lot of engagement on their respective YT channels...😉
Let's remember the discontinued FLHS and the discontinued FLHT, both the best bang for the HD buck, which goes against the Company's "profit at all cost" policy.
OMG....thought I'd miss it...but there it was @9:00!
Oh and I saw that video....as well!!!😂😂😂😂
I've only ever had 1 Harley-Davidson, all i can say it was the easiest bike to sell I've ever had!
Value of a Harley Davidson, when there are less buyers out there that don't buy Harleys it becomes a problem for the value.
You want value for your money buy a Honda
In today’s situation HD is not the best value for sure, all prices rising , motorcycle industry and car industry struggles , smaller capacity bikes seems to be more popular now
I used to think HD had a good resale value but thats not the case..I have a 2021 HD I bought new for $18,900 and I took it to the dealer to see what it was worth and they would not pay more than 11k for it..3 years old with 2800 miles on it..I was surprised it was worth $8000 LESS in 3 years.
Which bike was it?
@khrisstake2210 It is a SportGlide
The value of a Harley is what you are gonna do with that bike. Never buy a expensive Harley for the wrong reasons. It's probably wasted money then.
If a motorcycle manufacturer made a perfect bike, people will still “upgrade “ it.
My criticism with HD is, they don’t even try anymore. Like the exhaust systems are total cheap garbage. My Road Glide clutch has a totally unacceptably clutch pull. I installed a Muller power pull to make the clutch pull half of hard as stock. Both it and the stock clutch pushrod actuator look identical but the Muller has revised geometry that relieves the hard pull. Why didn’t HD do this from the factory?
Their attitude has become “the aftermarket will fix it”
People will say “buy Honda if you want value”. It’s of no value to me if it’s not something I like.
0:20 AS / YN ✌
you been "spoken too" Alf? !!
It's a lot of money just to get the other Harley guys giving you the nod.
You don't think there's value in a touring HD because you live in the UK where such touring rigs are really overkill. Anything is acceptable going for 60 mile rides at 40 mph.
Come to the US where you can ride thousands of miles. Many here do a thousand miles a day for a badge. And put your wife on the back for such a trip. And add maintenance into your calculations. Now suddenly, HDs are more valuable than just about anything else.
I was just watching a BMW mechanic yesterday lament about how many specialized tools you need to work on a BMW. And all the electronic crap you have to pay a dealer just to reset and what not. He's pretty sure that's why simple, good looking, & inexpensive bikes like Royal Enfields have been cleaning up. What the buyers of those bikes don't realize is that they will need to be tearing into it every 3k miles. That may be a long time for fair weather bikers, but it's barely a long weekend for a lot of us on Harleys. ;)
What's Anything Worth?
It's worth what someone else will pay for it.
If that figure disappoints you then ask yourself if it is worth more than that to you. If so, keep it and ride it. If you spent too much on it in the first place, ride it into the ground and enjoy it. Don't be the guy who gets milked by the dealer every couple of years.
Good luck and stay safe all.
Is "value" a one size fits all commodity?
I reckon not the same for all. Who's buying? Some value having a drink, some prefer the valuable experience of a nice Woodford Reserve.
The more "value" one adds in (Harley) accessories, in a friend's experience, anyway, he found that added dongles increases the value, at least, up-to-and-including... ZERO. Leave it alone, and, upon trade/resale, you'll get the most actual value.
Of the 20-something bikes I've owned, the Harley's held value best. Even the "staged" bikes, bring no more in value (unless a 'special' sort of buyer pulls up...)
Is visceral value more valuable than monetary value? If you value the ride...yep.
P.S. a big fan of "appropriate" levels of tech, here.
I want to sell my 2019 Breakout limited edition…. Australia
You pay a lot for the heritage and the lore. There's nothing wrong with that. In terms of transportation value per dollar Harley has never been a good value. Ducati, MV Agusta, and arguably BMW aren't terribly good value for money either.
No they are sh!t ,I had one sport glide. was only happy when I sold it