If you think about it, "Princess Hyrule" is actually correct because everyone in the Hyrulean royal family has the last name Hyrule. So Zelda's full name would be Zelda Hyrule, and so Princess Hyrule would be a perfectly acceptable way to address her.
Re: the Forrest temple, that first key is signaled with a gold skultula on the vines. Because you don't have the longshot or any projectiles at that point, you have to climb up to the top of the stump to nab that token, which makes the chest plainly visible. I know some players still miss it, but they didn't throw it in a random spot without a hint. Also, deku nuts make the first 3 poe fights very quick; they're a highly underrated item.
Really should have made the first keydoor right at the start instead of opening up everything else. Going back not taking the key for granted, that's actually a very baffling decision.
The 3DS version turned the water temple from one of the worst dungeons in the game, to one of the best dungeons by making the iron boots an item you are able to equip!
I didn’t play the original so the 3DS was my first experience with the game and when I played the water temple hearing how bad it was I was like “This is fine and not hard why did people complain?” It took some research to learn why people hated it but yeah it makes sense.
@@konkey-dong There are flaws with the game still. For example, right after leaving the forest and heading towards Death Mountain, you are then told to go back to the forest to learn a song to use back at Death Mountain! Why couldn’t Saria just teach you that song the right before you left to Death Mountain? Another example of bad game design comes in the entrance to Jabu Jubu’s Belly. You were never hinted at that you had to feed him the fish! But overall, the game is still great today, despite its outdated elements.
@@nickk3077 I played the 3d version so maybe it was different, but there is a Zora that tells you than feeding Jabu-Jabu with fishes is a religious ritual. Also, when you enter the forest temple for the first time, you can see the chest in the cutscene. Also, I came back to see Saria because her dialogue was sad before going to Hyrule castle and there is a shortcut from the Goron village to the lost woods
@@nickk3077 Well, but players who explore a lot will get rewarded by finding the shortcut to lost woods. And i am pretty sure there was a zora or sign post somewhere hinting at the fish thing.
Fun Fact: I missed that sign in Dodongo’s Cavern and had a hard time with that puzzle as a little kid. The signs usually said dumb stuff and I stopped read them my first play through.
I feel like the Water Temple and maybe the Shadow Temple sections are a soft rebuttal to Mark Brown's design arguments. Which is fine, but iron boots issues aside I believe you are underselling the Water Temple quite a bit, and it is certainly the dungeon that was given the least amount of attention in your analysis. In particular your emphasis on backtracking as a design flaw without much elaboration undersells the value of *purposeful* backtracking. This kind of backtracking is not the time wasting filler that you would see in a Paper Mario game. Instead the dungeon is asking you to make connections between the rooms and the water levels, forcing you to learn the rules of the dungeon so that you can backtrack and navigate in intelligent ways. Also importantly, the game gives you the tools to make these connections such that, if you do miss something, you can solve the puzzles without it becoming a scavenger hunt. The game makes sure to section off most of the major sections early to see them in their inaccessible states, opening itself up bit by bit so that you're not initially overwhelmed by choice, and uses clever camera angles and a centralized structure to help steer you to points of interest instead of using simple obscurity to hide key items. Moreover, it's important to note the Temple gives you the map and compass early enough so that you don't have to play "guess the room" to find a key! Compare this to the obscure key in the Forest Temple you mentioned. A large part of the problem there is simply that you don't get the compass until late in that dungeon. If you got it early, that key would barely be noteworthy, and as a result primarily serves the purpose of just telling the player to check *everything*! Meanwhile, the Water Temple is designed well enough that, even with the map and compass, you're still expected to do the work and make the connections, and paces itself so that you have time to observe much of the dungeon on the first loop. Its a design that I don't think you gave enough attention to, even if you wanted to criticize it. I'm not sure if it's my favorite dungeon overall given the iron boots flaw (and a few other things), but if I made a list it would certainly be in the running. In my objective opinion of course ;) Edit: I may need to double check the Forest Temple, but if you can get the compass before *that* key, that makes the issue a lot smaller I think. But I'm very sure the Compass came after the key was required.
When he talked about the first key in the forest temple, I just thought "Yeah, that's on purpose". Im fairly sure you can get the compas before the key (I was a dumb kid, I'm sure I couldn't figure it out without the compas) and it's meant to teach the player that if he's stuck, maybe check his map again for missing chest.
He did it last video too with Link. There were several times where he switched up the name in ways you couldn't possibly have gotten mixed up by accident, and others where he properly called him Link. That's just part of Ceave's schtick.
@@Merennulli I think he purposefully threw in a bit more Variations this time since people under the last video seemingly believed Ceave didn't genuinely know the correct names (even though it was obvious).
Yeah, people always dismiss Ganon's Tower because it's not considered a "real dungeon" to most people, but it is absolutely phenomenal to me. If it were included, I would put it very near the top because it's that good. The only drawback to it in my opinion is how the elemental puzzles don't match their corresponding dungeons, but I think that's all the more interesting. Because it seems to give us insight into what the "missing" dungeons were that ended up not getting put in the game. Either way, Ganon's Tower is a masterpiece of epic game design.
When I was a kid I was stuck in the tower for soooo long because I didn’t have the fire arrows. I had been using a strategy guide based on an early version of the game that awarded you the fire arrows for beating volvagia. Prior to this, I had cleverly made my own fiery arrows with torches, but this was much harder in a particular room in the tower. All these years later, Ganon’s Tower still makes me cringe every time I enter it
Same - Meanwhile I cannot stand Jabu Jabu's Belly. The texturing of the walls while making thematic sense made it very hard for me to distinguish between rooms making it a confusing mess of a dungeon for me, and it's easily my least favourite dungeon of any Zelda game I've played.
@@Stephen-Fox Yeah I wouldn't necessarily call it worse than the (original) Water Temple, but it's one of the worst dungeons in the game for sure. It looks gross, it can be really confusing (especially as a child), Ruto's super annoying, it's just not fun. For the life of me I cannot comprehend how anyone would rate it higher than the iconic Forest Temple or even call it their favourite dungeon in the game, but hey, everybody's opinion is different.
I didn't have an issue with the boots. My issue was that certain keys were hard to find for no reason. I soent so much time running past the same key over and over until I realized I had to claw shot a target that was obscured by a platform unless you looked up at it at a certain angle...
@@Stephen-Fox jabu jabus belly is disgusting, I hated every minute I was in it, it’s just too gross for me, I don’t like the organs that are platforms, worst part of the dungeon
Fun fact: the water temple is beatable without the zora tunic, if you get the iron boots from the ice cave but don't think to bring a blue fire with you. Guess how I know?
Not only that, you can beat Water Temple with no Zora Tunic and 5 hearts, it's done all the time in randomizers. You get about 30s of underwater time, which is plenty to do everything including the Central Pillar chest. Bonus: you can also enter AND beat the Water Temple with just the Gold Scale and Longshot, no Iron Boots needed.
They don't mine tunnels, they eat them! Jokes aside, I always wondered as a kid how they were going hungry when their home was made out of what they eat...
@@TheLordTash I figure it's probably like we don't eat grass all the time even though we can and it's everywhere. Taste bad and minimal nutritional value
"We're starving. We need rocks to eat, but Dodongo's Cavern is blocked off by a boulder!" "Why don't you eat the boulder?" Every time this topic comes up, I think of this scene from TerminalMontage's Something About Zelda Ocarina of Time.
@@bastienlafleur5838 how about eating just one disgusting rock, in order to unlock the way to the tasty rocks? Sure, it tastes bad, but it's better than starving. If a psychopath locked you in a dungeon with no food and the only way out was to swim underwater in a crappy sewer, you'd probably do it, right?
I was a kid when I went through DC the first time and I remember puzzling about how to make the skull see red for a good amount of time before I got it. I think that puzzle looks a lot easier in retrospect both as gaming conventions go and just already knowing the answer while looking at the clue.
@@razer1158 exactly, you see if you want to make any thing better add fuzzies, this is why I’m making an army of Lego fuzzies to put them around the world to make the earth better
I've been replaying OoT 3D for so long and so many playthroughs that I had forgotten how awful that was on N64. And I was like 11/12 years old when it came out. So I can't imagine how I eventually ended up doing it. Especially because the internet being so new back then and me being so young... the only way to beat it otherwise was to buy the huge and expensive game guide book or to bring the cartridge over to my older neighbor's house and have him beat it lol. I must've brought him 100s of games lol poor kid. I eventually got it figured out myself but took a lot of time and trial and error. It seems so easy now.
@@nathanhall9345 I thought her entire character was supposed to be annoying. That's why when, as an adult, she basically directly states "I am no longer annoying". At least that's how I remember it.
@@nathanhall9345 Even in spite of that, Ruto isn’t a good mechanic. Crave spin her into a positive light, without mentioning that she’s basically a worse version of an escort quest.
Giant Flying Green Fire Skull Patrol I always stayed inside the hidden wall and peaked outside to see if the coast was clear. Then I ran like hell xD A decade later I figure w8 a minute.... u can slice the suckah
Each time I play Ocarina of Time I'm reminded there are far more dungeons than I recalled. It is like my mind just keeps erasing the ones that frustrate me.
16:30 That's actually great design, at least in Master Quest. It teaches you to look in unexpected places and to not take rooms for granted. It makes the first key an event that sticks out, which is what makes the Dodongo skull so great, isn't it?
To be fair, it would be equally as hard to find a straw in a stack of needles, if not harder. Even if you k ew where in the stack it was, you would eviscerate your hand on the way in and out
This was such an amazing video! Like, it was a fun topic, but the humor was on point, the commentary was interesting, and it was overall really well put together. Even more than they usually are! Also thank you for putting Gerudo Valley theme in like seven times. I love that song and I want it to play everywhere forever.
yeah i personally hated the escort design of Jabu Jabu's belly but it is interesting to see people liked different things for different reasons. I think alot of it has to do with what age you played the game, I think I was young and dumb so certain things went over my head
I personally liked the jabu jabu's belly dungeon the atmosphere of it same reason why I loved the prince froggy boss fight in yoshi's island and loved the forest temple spirit temple and shadow temple too. Hated the water temple due to the cumbersome iron boots mechanics and always forgetting which water level switch is which and where they are and still hate that dungeon to this day thank god the 3DS remake fixed the major problem with it
@@bastienlafleur5838 I didn't like the water temple much, but only because I had so much trouble with finding this one damn key for almost an hour. I much prefer the water temple in Skyward Sword. The one in Majora's Mask is def THE worst though...
I didn't either, but it makes sense! Nintendo has always been amazing at educating the player without being too obvious about it, but this was mind blowing to me when he first mentioned it, because I NEVER realized just how many things this first mini dungeon teaches you. And the fact that it's the first ever Zelda dungeon in 3D makes it even more amazing how they went with verticality. Yeah, it makes sense because it's a tree and all, but just think, Nintendo didn't HAVE TO design the first dungeon in a tree. It could be a coincidence, but I highly doubt it was.
@@EnderofGames I saw the video and made a coment about ninja rupies (the ones under short grass or in the watter) and the coment section turned into a Ceave apreciation party.
The thing with the dodongo skull puzzle has some other important points about it, if you ask me. For one, the sign doesn't just directly tell you what to do, though the layout of the room combined with the bombs being the dungeon item makes it super simple to figure out. It doesn't just say "drop bombs into the skulls eyes from the bridge" It's got that cryptic clue kind of vibe to it, like you tend to see in ancient tombs and temples in media, and makes you feel like you solved the riddle, even it if was trivially simple. Definitely better than if it was just standard game object interactions like the "modern team" example given.
I think I agree. To me, it's simple but not overwhelmingly obvious. Like you said, they don't explicitly tell you what to do, but it's not a huge mystery either. It never really bothered me as a kid, whereas most of the "hints" in Zelda 1 still piss me off as an adult because they just made NO sense.
@@ccox7198 I think it’s kind of weird that you’re gatekeeping these accessibility features saying that only “those who need them” are able to appreciate them, which isn’t true at all
3 and 4 gerudos training grounds is alright ig, but not too great ganons tower is p cool tho, I like the gimmick of having to re-enable all the sage's magic
Same I dislike it because it was so bland and I was kinda expecting a dungeon to do with water but I understand why they didn’t (because of the water temple). Also escorting Ruto was so annoying and hard but that might just be because I’m 12. The only saving grace is the boss barinade which is one of my favorite bosses
@@Flome810 I agree I liked the bosses but yeah. Also I feel like all the rooms look way to similar. Like all the walls look the same, and I was also like 12 back when I played it but still I got lost so much in that dungeon.
One could argue that the wolves make you slow down and catch your breath, or approach rooms more cautiously, thus making you more likely to find this stuff.
I believe it was God that once said, “Thou shalt not place the Forest Temple below the Great Deku Tree. Or Dodongo’s Cavern. Or a literal water temple that is extremely gross to look at. Or basically anything besides the Shadow Temple and the Spirit Temple.”
Ceave expressing the frustration of the first key of the forest temple has me realizing: the reason i stopped my blind playthrough of OoT is because i got stuck in the forest temple unable to progress cuz i couldn't find that key for multiple hours, something which i only realize now, multiple years later
I liked the water temple. I was excited to go through it to see if I remembered how. There were very few enemies and things to attack you, and the ones that were there were pushovers. It was primarily puzzle.
After thinking a bit about Dodongo's Cavern, Link went out of his way for that dungeon. The Gorons problem was that they couldn't get in, Link destroyed the boulder than randomly decided to kill some dodongos.
One, it's Dodongo. Two, I once had to fix that exact typo in like 20 different pages of an Ocarina of Time hacking wiki because I copied that typo into a database i used to generate pages.
lol yeah, while the hint in Dodongo's Cavern might be TOO obvious, I absolutely HATE how vague most of the hints are in Zelda 1. It's still a fantastic game and I love it for essentially being the origin of one of my favorite series of all time, but when you take how annoyingly difficult the hints are, and couple that with the fact that at the time, the internet wasn't in every household, it was annoying as hell lol.
I'm disagreeing a lot about the Forest Temple. Its unique ability to lost and disturb you combined with this uneasy OST really made it an unforgivable experience and for good reason. With Shadow Temple it's my favorite.
@@dudestop7274 The first key issue is incorrect though. There are enough keys to find the compass, and once the compass is found, all unopened treasure chests are displayed, thus revealing the location of the first key. You have to backtrack, sure, but it's still not the reason to get lost. If you are getting lost that means that you cant find TWO or more keys.
i like the shadow temple. but i have not played the game for a long time. you have a fair point about the forest temple.. i just remember being confused when i first played it when i was 7.
the 2 fuzzies for forest temple hurt my soul. the creepy mysterious atmosphere and the music, along with a bunch of creepy dead ghosts, spiders and shit, make it for me one of the most memorable places in the game. This is what getting lost in a dark cursed forest should feel like.
It's funny, I specifically remember some people talking about how when they were young, that dodongo cavern hint didn't help them. Either then ran past the hint, or they didn't see the skill beneath them. One then tried to make the little dodongos knock down walls, another tried to throw bombs at the skull from below before figuring it out. So yes, its pretty easy to most and giving the solution ahead of time. But second dungeon and potentially a bit of a "pay attention to surroundings" reminder.
Hold up "If ocarina of time were to get released today, there is a high chance that the infinite sword glitch would be patched" But I thought in remastered, a version of the infinite sword glitch was still in it. Bomb hover wasn't, only enemy hovering.
HOLY HOLY!!! I can proudly say that I have the two HOTTEST women on this planet as MY GIRLFRIENDS! I am the unprettiest TH-camr ever, but they love me for what's inside! Thanks for listening tj
Thank you SO much for subtitles. Not only are they useful for people who are hard of hearing, but they're useful for people like me who have audio processing issues and can struggle a lot based on how fast or slow a person is talking. I also have a hard time when hearing certain accents for a while until I get used to it, and the subtitles meant I never had to back up and listen again.
As he was talking about it I was remembering being a kid playing with my sibling and we were both stuck on that for (what felt like) hours before one of us was like: let's bomb it! I think what probably held us back the most was that we were super conservative about resources in games and would only use ammunition when we absolutely had to.
Dude, your videos are always so well thought out and written I could very easily believe there was a professional writing team behind you. Great job! Huuuray!
I feel like the difficulty and tediousness of the water temple makes it one of the most enjoyable dungeons for me in adulthood- the water temple is where a lot of my childhood playthroughs ended, and the feeling you get once you finally beat it and get through it is really gratifying. On top of that the temple is beautiful and the music is as well, which makes the brain numbing level design far more tolerable for 4 hours. Everyone has their own tastes though. Love the video! 🙏🏻
Just wanted to say that the Water Temple is better in the 3DS remake, not only sheikah stones are a thing, but the iron boots are now a wearable item that makes quicker the time to beat it. And thus, the 3DS version is the best way to play the game.
I adore the loving exposition on the 'eye puzzle' and how it really stuck with him for how unpredictable and unique it was and what a fantastic design decision it is. Because I hear that puzzle explanation, and I think, "Oh, the playtesters couldn't figure it out so they just plunked a sign down telling them what to do." Itself an elegant form of problem solving, really.
I feel like an even easier way to solve the Dead Dodongo puzzle in the 2nd dungeon would be to just put the sign at the very start of the level: that way, the player would know exactly how to make progress, and the rest of the linear path would be them figuring out how to make it happen, kinda like the emblem gate in the main hall of Resident Evil. Just a suggestion. EDIT: Also, I'm a little surprised that you're not including boss fights as part of the dungeon - I feel like they're a part of the experience just as much as the items and puzzles are.
Just wanted to say I fell in love with this channel. All the videos are super insightful and show a deep level of understanding (and appreciation) of game design. Great work Ceave Gaming.
This is such a great analysis Ceave! Like, man, not only did you expertly analyze all of the dungeons in a consistent and interesting way, but you were able to bring in other topics through great tangents and comparisons. Your style of content has been becoming increasingly unique and I'm really loving it. I look forward to more videos analyzing different aspects of videogames / the industry like this!
I think the reason why some people like the water temple is because it, more than any other dungeon in the game, requires the player to consider how the whole thing fits together. I feel like with a lot of the dungeons in OoT, the player can kinda get away with just thinking about the current room, solving it, and moving on-with some exceptions like the Forest Temple and Jabu Jabu. With the water temple, the player needs to think of the dungeon as a real, 3D space where your actions in one area can effect other areas. You’re always making conscious decisions about what your next step should be.
The point about the Forest Temple key was super interesting to me. I played Ocarina of Time when I was very young, to the point where I can't remember what it was like to play for the first time. It feels like I've always known about the key in the entrance room. So I would never have stopped to think about whether that was a well-designed puzzle for first-time players. It's just interesting to watch a video breaking down something from a fresh perspective that I can't really take anymore.
As someone that plays Ocarina of Time randomized (can heavily recommend it for many reason), I would like to elevate Dodongo's Cavern a bit. Randomized, you can often do Dodongo's cavern as an adult. If you ever went back to Dodongo's cavern as an adult you'd be surprised to see how well adapted the dungeon seems to be for adult link. Because you can climb higher, a lot of stuff that doesn't have treasure chests can be skipped. Some interesting skips are present perfectly suited for adult link as well. In fact, I can recommend playing the randomizer in general. Not just to keep the game fresh, but also to see how uniquely wonderfully designed this game seems to be for just such a thing.
As a long-time OOT Randomizer player, the worst dungeon is CLEARLY the fire temple. Linear, long, if you mess up you lose lots of progress. Water Temple is way better once you know what you're doing and have the randomizer's quality-of-life feature of putting the boots on the D-pad.
Yeah, the Fire Temple can be frustrating at times for sure. I vastly prefer the Water Temple in the 3DS version of the game (I prefer that version in general), although I do really enjoy the randomizer and I do appreciate the D-Pad mappings for the boots.
Spirit Temple is my favorite. Not totally sure why, probably an atmosphere thing, but it's one of those special places in a game where I'd just go to hang out for no reason.
The fact that Ceave can make me enjoy a Zelda video despite me not caring at all about Zelda just shows how he is the ABsolute best Nintedo TH-cam in my humble, yet objective opinion. Absolutely amazing
The forest temple key issue could be so easily fixed if they had locked that first door. Then you would just have to look around the entrance room, see the vines, and climb to get the first key.
So I haven't seen his face until today, but he's cute as hell? I don't know what I expected, probably because I couldn't imagine his voice and manner of speaking belonging to a mortal physical body
I just replayed the Water Temple this morning on NSO...I gotta say. I think it's my favorite. I didn't have to pause that often to change boots and only changed water levels....4 times? I think it is definitely the most interestingly and dynamically designed dungeon that actual challenges your spatial awareness in satisfying ways.
Playing it as a kid definitely was a pain but I also played it recently and aside from the boots mechanic it's design it's pretty clever. It's also one of my favorites.
If you think about it, "Princess Hyrule" is actually correct because everyone in the Hyrulean royal family has the last name Hyrule. So Zelda's full name would be Zelda Hyrule, and so Princess Hyrule would be a perfectly acceptable way to address her.
I mean unless you can provide evidence of this, I don’t think it’s true and that her name is simply a mononym
@@DormantDoormat What about the fact that King Rhoam Bosphoramus Hyrule's surname is Hyrule, also there is King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule.
@@Bonnielikescats that is true, I agree with you on this one bro
Also die you realize that in the subtitles he called her Princess Termina? XD
@@clarfonthey I guess that's why they call it Hyrule Castle
Re: the Forrest temple, that first key is signaled with a gold skultula on the vines. Because you don't have the longshot or any projectiles at that point, you have to climb up to the top of the stump to nab that token, which makes the chest plainly visible. I know some players still miss it, but they didn't throw it in a random spot without a hint. Also, deku nuts make the first 3 poe fights very quick; they're a highly underrated item.
Really should have made the first keydoor right at the start instead of opening up everything else. Going back not taking the key for granted, that's actually a very baffling decision.
@@zeeteepippi275I think this is done in Master Quest, actually.
I HATE the forest temple only for the first key and the damn music 😊
@@DonMaturro that's too bad, the forest temple probably has my favorite song in Ocarina.
@@JeY_k really? :0
The 3DS version turned the water temple from one of the worst dungeons in the game, to one of the best dungeons by making the iron boots an item you are able to equip!
I didn’t play the original so the 3DS was my first experience with the game and when I played the water temple hearing how bad it was I was like
“This is fine and not hard why did people complain?”
It took some research to learn why people hated it but yeah it makes sense.
That one small change turns it from a game design nightmare to a masterpiece
@@konkey-dong There are flaws with the game still. For example, right after leaving the forest and heading towards Death Mountain, you are then told to go back to the forest to learn a song to use back at Death Mountain! Why couldn’t Saria just teach you that song the right before you left to Death Mountain? Another example of bad game design comes in the entrance to Jabu Jubu’s Belly. You were never hinted at that you had to feed him the fish! But overall, the game is still great today, despite its outdated elements.
@@nickk3077 I played the 3d version so maybe it was different, but there is a Zora that tells you than feeding Jabu-Jabu with fishes is a religious ritual.
Also, when you enter the forest temple for the first time, you can see the chest in the cutscene.
Also, I came back to see Saria because her dialogue was sad before going to Hyrule castle and there is a shortcut from the Goron village to the lost woods
@@nickk3077 Well, but players who explore a lot will get rewarded by finding the shortcut to lost woods.
And i am pretty sure there was a zora or sign post somewhere hinting at the fish thing.
The section about pattern breaks is a pattern break itself. Genius.
Yeh that's the point
@@TheRealGameCompany they’re commenting because they think it’s a genius idea, not because they think it’s hidden knowledge
@@rowan4327 oh i thought it was sarcastic
How is it?
I was being serious, that was a great segment
He needs to open a new channel where he does let's plays and streams, just so the channel "Ceave Gaming Gaming" exists
Ceave Gaming Gaming
Ceave Gaming Gaming Gaming
Ceave's "Ceave gaming" gaming
This has serious will Will Smith smith vibes
@@locomokuu2471 will Will Smith encourage Ceave Gaming to make the channel "Ceave gaming gaming"?
Fun Fact: I missed that sign in Dodongo’s Cavern and had a hard time with that puzzle as a little kid. The signs usually said dumb stuff and I stopped read them my first play through.
I did the same thing
It's wholesome how we didn't get to see his face for ages and now he's totally into it
I never thought the day would never come to see Ceave's lovable face
Yeah I like ceave's face, he is shaped like a friend
i've never seen a face fit a voice more
Hoo-ray!
@@noobtablet101 your channel is a week old, I find this hard to believe
I feel like the Water Temple and maybe the Shadow Temple sections are a soft rebuttal to Mark Brown's design arguments. Which is fine, but iron boots issues aside I believe you are underselling the Water Temple quite a bit, and it is certainly the dungeon that was given the least amount of attention in your analysis. In particular your emphasis on backtracking as a design flaw without much elaboration undersells the value of *purposeful* backtracking. This kind of backtracking is not the time wasting filler that you would see in a Paper Mario game. Instead the dungeon is asking you to make connections between the rooms and the water levels, forcing you to learn the rules of the dungeon so that you can backtrack and navigate in intelligent ways. Also importantly, the game gives you the tools to make these connections such that, if you do miss something, you can solve the puzzles without it becoming a scavenger hunt. The game makes sure to section off most of the major sections early to see them in their inaccessible states, opening itself up bit by bit so that you're not initially overwhelmed by choice, and uses clever camera angles and a centralized structure to help steer you to points of interest instead of using simple obscurity to hide key items.
Moreover, it's important to note the Temple gives you the map and compass early enough so that you don't have to play "guess the room" to find a key! Compare this to the obscure key in the Forest Temple you mentioned. A large part of the problem there is simply that you don't get the compass until late in that dungeon. If you got it early, that key would barely be noteworthy, and as a result primarily serves the purpose of just telling the player to check *everything*! Meanwhile, the Water Temple is designed well enough that, even with the map and compass, you're still expected to do the work and make the connections, and paces itself so that you have time to observe much of the dungeon on the first loop.
Its a design that I don't think you gave enough attention to, even if you wanted to criticize it. I'm not sure if it's my favorite dungeon overall given the iron boots flaw (and a few other things), but if I made a list it would certainly be in the running. In my objective opinion of course ;)
Edit: I may need to double check the Forest Temple, but if you can get the compass before *that* key, that makes the issue a lot smaller I think. But I'm very sure the Compass came after the key was required.
Cool take
I agree. I solved the water dungeon as a kid multiple times and I'm incredible at map reading. Coincidence? Absolutely.
Who's Mark Brown?
@@jetpackdog3427 Game Maker's Toolkit
When he talked about the first key in the forest temple, I just thought "Yeah, that's on purpose".
Im fairly sure you can get the compas before the key (I was a dumb kid, I'm sure I couldn't figure it out without the compas) and it's meant to teach the player that if he's stuck, maybe check his map again for missing chest.
Him calling Zelda "Hyrule" with zero irony or voice inflections was peak comedy 13:59
Also 15:48, he calls her princess sheikah and the subtitles call her princess termina
And later he calls her Princess Peach 24:40 😆
he had me in the first half not gonna lie
He did it last video too with Link. There were several times where he switched up the name in ways you couldn't possibly have gotten mixed up by accident, and others where he properly called him Link. That's just part of Ceave's schtick.
@@Merennulli I think he purposefully threw in a bit more Variations this time since people under the last video seemingly believed Ceave didn't genuinely know the correct names (even though it was obvious).
"That's it, that's every Ocarina of Time dungeon ranked."
*Sad Ganon's Tower Noises*
Yeah, people always dismiss Ganon's Tower because it's not considered a "real dungeon" to most people, but it is absolutely phenomenal to me. If it were included, I would put it very near the top because it's that good. The only drawback to it in my opinion is how the elemental puzzles don't match their corresponding dungeons, but I think that's all the more interesting. Because it seems to give us insight into what the "missing" dungeons were that ended up not getting put in the game. Either way, Ganon's Tower is a masterpiece of epic game design.
When I was a kid I was stuck in the tower for soooo long because I didn’t have the fire arrows. I had been using a strategy guide based on an early version of the game that awarded you the fire arrows for beating volvagia. Prior to this, I had cleverly made my own fiery arrows with torches, but this was much harder in a particular room in the tower. All these years later, Ganon’s Tower still makes me cringe every time I enter it
@@ninja_tony four fuzzies
@@zalden2565 i remember it, the room where you had to shoot a web in the ceiling?
@@dudu28r81 yep, That’s the one. It’s possible, but really tricky to do
The funny thing is that the Water Temple is my favorite, especially since I played Ocarina of Time on the 3DS, which fixed the iron boot problem
Same - Meanwhile I cannot stand Jabu Jabu's Belly. The texturing of the walls while making thematic sense made it very hard for me to distinguish between rooms making it a confusing mess of a dungeon for me, and it's easily my least favourite dungeon of any Zelda game I've played.
@@Stephen-Fox Yeah I wouldn't necessarily call it worse than the (original) Water Temple, but it's one of the worst dungeons in the game for sure. It looks gross, it can be really confusing (especially as a child), Ruto's super annoying, it's just not fun. For the life of me I cannot comprehend how anyone would rate it higher than the iconic Forest Temple or even call it their favourite dungeon in the game, but hey, everybody's opinion is different.
@@Stephen-Fox couldn't have said it better myself.
I didn't have an issue with the boots. My issue was that certain keys were hard to find for no reason. I soent so much time running past the same key over and over until I realized I had to claw shot a target that was obscured by a platform unless you looked up at it at a certain angle...
@@Stephen-Fox jabu jabus belly is disgusting, I hated every minute I was in it, it’s just too gross for me, I don’t like the organs that are platforms, worst part of the dungeon
Fun fact: the water temple is beatable without the zora tunic, if you get the iron boots from the ice cave but don't think to bring a blue fire with you. Guess how I know?
how
glitches?
Not only that, you can beat Water Temple with no Zora Tunic and 5 hearts, it's done all the time in randomizers. You get about 30s of underwater time, which is plenty to do everything including the Central Pillar chest. Bonus: you can also enter AND beat the Water Temple with just the Gold Scale and Longshot, no Iron Boots needed.
gorons are obviously living in their personal luncheon kingdom, with all those rocks and stones around them
They don't mine tunnels, they eat them!
Jokes aside, I always wondered as a kid how they were going hungry when their home was made out of what they eat...
The normal rocks taste like crap. Really, that's actually the explanation they give in-game.
@@TheLordTash I figure it's probably like we don't eat grass all the time even though we can and it's everywhere. Taste bad and minimal nutritional value
"We're starving. We need rocks to eat, but Dodongo's Cavern is blocked off by a boulder!"
"Why don't you eat the boulder?"
Every time this topic comes up, I think of this scene from TerminalMontage's Something About Zelda Ocarina of Time.
@@bastienlafleur5838 how about eating just one disgusting rock, in order to unlock the way to the tasty rocks? Sure, it tastes bad, but it's better than starving. If a psychopath locked you in a dungeon with no food and the only way out was to swim underwater in a crappy sewer, you'd probably do it, right?
When you realize Ceave has a framed picture of Princess Ruto....
wait, you don’t?
I just think she has really great fashion sense.
"Design is rarely just good or bad" - truer words have rarely been spoken.
I was a kid when I went through DC the first time and I remember puzzling about how to make the skull see red for a good amount of time before I got it. I think that puzzle looks a lot easier in retrospect both as gaming conventions go and just already knowing the answer while looking at the clue.
The only way to Make Ocarina Of Time better is to add Fuzzies
Shayminup7 yesh
Exactly. See, this is why Mario games have been more popular than Zelda games.
@@razer1158 exactly, you see if you want to make any thing better add fuzzies, this is why I’m making an army of Lego fuzzies to put them around the world to make the earth better
@@shayminup7 you are a hero
holy fuzzy
Jabu Jabu’s belly was one of my least favorite, I enjoyed the water temple puzzles, though, the boots was the only problem.
I've been replaying OoT 3D for so long and so many playthroughs that I had forgotten how awful that was on N64. And I was like 11/12 years old when it came out. So I can't imagine how I eventually ended up doing it. Especially because the internet being so new back then and me being so young... the only way to beat it otherwise was to buy the huge and expensive game guide book or to bring the cartridge over to my older neighbor's house and have him beat it lol. I must've brought him 100s of games lol poor kid. I eventually got it figured out myself but took a lot of time and trial and error. It seems so easy now.
Of course the dungeon that most horrified me as a child is your favorite.
Jabu Jabu would have been in the running for worst dungeon for me. But that seems to depend on whether you found Ruto charming or annoying.
@@nathanhall9345 I thought her entire character was supposed to be annoying. That's why when, as an adult, she basically directly states "I am no longer annoying". At least that's how I remember it.
@@nathanhall9345 Even in spite of that, Ruto isn’t a good mechanic. Crave spin her into a positive light, without mentioning that she’s basically a worse version of an escort quest.
Why is the bottom of the well so memorable?
Most people: it’s a awesome pattern breaker
Me: *DEAD HAND AND THE MANY NIGHTS OF SLEEP HE TOOK FROM ME*
I mean... just flip those. Most people remember is because it was terrifying.
Yeah that place was scary
Giant Flying Green Fire Skull Patrol
I always stayed inside the hidden wall and peaked outside to see if the coast was clear. Then I ran like hell xD
A decade later I figure w8 a minute.... u can slice the suckah
Bro I use to run in, grab the lens of truth and dip .. didn’t finish anything 😂
You really can't predict what this guy is going to come up with for his next video. And I love that.
So he's just as unpredictable as the game itself, huh.
@@Max-rz8br good one
ACQUIRE THE SIRE
quag sire
@@beckampotoczny6732 yknow Ive had this profile pic for 2 Years, way before it became a meme
It's so awesome to see someone else appreciate Jabu Jabu's belly! It's probably my favorite one in the game and everyone says I'm crazy 😂
Well, that just means Ceave is crazy along with you ;)
Hey Dave!
DGR you really know whats good!
Dave is crazy! I always hated Jabu Jabu’s Belly... No clue why haha
Hi Dave
Each time I play Ocarina of Time I'm reminded there are far more dungeons than I recalled. It is like my mind just keeps erasing the ones that frustrate me.
16:30 That's actually great design, at least in Master Quest. It teaches you to look in unexpected places and to not take rooms for granted. It makes the first key an event that sticks out, which is what makes the Dodongo skull so great, isn't it?
Link=Zelda
Zelda=Hyrule
Samus=Metroid
Straw in a stack of needles
Ceave, I think you might be trolling us.
I got a red yoshi, several stars, fire flowers, 1 upps and some flying powerups between these two pipes in Mario Maker 2 for ya.
He most deffinently is! XD
He's maybe trolling us a bittle lit
To be fair, it would be equally as hard to find a straw in a stack of needles, if not harder. Even if you k ew where in the stack it was, you would eviscerate your hand on the way in and out
@@stanstanstan2597 looooool
This was such an amazing video! Like, it was a fun topic, but the humor was on point, the commentary was interesting, and it was overall really well put together. Even more than they usually are!
Also thank you for putting Gerudo Valley theme in like seven times. I love that song and I want it to play everywhere forever.
Ah yes, Princess Hyrule, my favorite Metroid character.
Actually its princess sheikah
@@Be4ls1c But Sheikah is princess Peach!
@@lit3rallyuseless, it’s a joke
@@shayminup7 Princess Samus is no one to joke about.
@@patrickj really but she’s my favourite character in Ridley Ware Switched
The joke about Zelda's name is funny, because 'Princess Hyrule' isn't even wrong. According to Breath of the Wild, Hyrule is her last name.
according to wind waker as well
I love this man. His sense of humor is on-point all the time!
I never realized Ceave was even faceless until he brought it up himself, and I love it now
I thought Jabu Jabu's belly was less interesting than the Water Temple, and the Ice Cave was completely unremarkable.
totally agree
yeah i personally hated the escort design of Jabu Jabu's belly but it is interesting to see people liked different things for different reasons. I think alot of it has to do with what age you played the game, I think I was young and dumb so certain things went over my head
I personally liked the jabu jabu's belly dungeon the atmosphere of it same reason why I loved the prince froggy boss fight in yoshi's island and loved the forest temple spirit temple and shadow temple too. Hated the water temple due to the cumbersome iron boots mechanics and always forgetting which water level switch is which and where they are and still hate that dungeon to this day thank god the 3DS remake fixed the major problem with it
Yeah, Jabu-Jabu's is prob the worst of the child dungeons
@@bastienlafleur5838 I didn't like the water temple much, but only because I had so much trouble with finding this one damn key for almost an hour. I much prefer the water temple in Skyward Sword. The one in Majora's Mask is def THE worst though...
I've NEVER thought about the Deku Tree being a way of teaching people verticality!
That's SO COOL! It checks out! It makes sense! I applaud you.
I didn't either, but it makes sense! Nintendo has always been amazing at educating the player without being too obvious about it, but this was mind blowing to me when he first mentioned it, because I NEVER realized just how many things this first mini dungeon teaches you. And the fact that it's the first ever Zelda dungeon in 3D makes it even more amazing how they went with verticality. Yeah, it makes sense because it's a tree and all, but just think, Nintendo didn't HAVE TO design the first dungeon in a tree. It could be a coincidence, but I highly doubt it was.
Next video: Is it possible to beat OoT without touching a single evil, disgusting rupee?
Sadly no, at least not glitchless
DGR_Dave (DGR on TH-cam) attempted this. I never saw to the end.
dgr did that
@@EnderofGames I love DGR, so underrated.
@@EnderofGames I saw the video and made a coment about ninja rupies (the ones under short grass or in the watter) and the coment section turned into a Ceave apreciation party.
The thing with the dodongo skull puzzle has some other important points about it, if you ask me. For one, the sign doesn't just directly tell you what to do, though the layout of the room combined with the bombs being the dungeon item makes it super simple to figure out. It doesn't just say "drop bombs into the skulls eyes from the bridge" It's got that cryptic clue kind of vibe to it, like you tend to see in ancient tombs and temples in media, and makes you feel like you solved the riddle, even it if was trivially simple. Definitely better than if it was just standard game object interactions like the "modern team" example given.
At some point "light both torches" was a new concept.
I think I agree. To me, it's simple but not overwhelmingly obvious. Like you said, they don't explicitly tell you what to do, but it's not a huge mystery either. It never really bothered me as a kid, whereas most of the "hints" in Zelda 1 still piss me off as an adult because they just made NO sense.
Can we appreciate that Ceave has closed captions set before the video uploads?
@@ccox7198 well I do truly need them because Ceave’s accent is hard to understand at points so it’s easier for me to understand what he’s saying
@@ccox7198 or you could just appreciate that ceave thinks about accessibility and not be an ass?
@@ccox7198 it’s not like he’s a bad guy
It's very helpful if you're deaf like me.
@@ccox7198 I think it’s kind of weird that you’re gatekeeping these accessibility features saying that only “those who need them” are able to appreciate them, which isn’t true at all
"There are redeads everywhere" *shows a Gibdo*
Gibdos become Redeads if you burn them
@@mr.sniffly5297 Yeah, but they're still separate enemies xD
Imagine if he ranked every moon in Mario odyssey
@@MelTheMann there’s like 880 or something like that
Pretty doable IMO. A lot of them you can group, like the shopping ones, koopa the quick races, walking, wearing clothes, each boss and their rematches
Holy fuzzy
Jump Rope 100 times is 0 Fuzzies. Fuck that Moon.
Just for hahas how many fuzzies would you give Gerudos Training Grounds and Ganon’s Tower?! 👀
@@MelTheMann k and
@@MelTheMann this comment aged like milk
3 and 4
gerudos training grounds is alright ig, but not too great
ganons tower is p cool tho, I like the gimmick of having to re-enable all the sage's magic
I kept expecting Ganon's Tower to sneak in at the last minute to usurp the Water Temple's unprize
Interesting opinion. Personally Jaba Jabba's belly is my least Favourite.
Same I dislike it because it was so bland and I was kinda expecting a dungeon to do with water but I understand why they didn’t (because of the water temple). Also escorting Ruto was so annoying and hard but that might just be because I’m 12. The only saving grace is the boss barinade which is one of my favorite bosses
@@Flome810 I agree I liked the bosses but yeah. Also I feel like all the rooms look way to similar. Like all the walls look the same, and I was also like 12 back when I played it but still I got lost so much in that dungeon.
Jabba dabba doo!
I think i speak for everyone when i say "yay"
not for me since i go YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
hooray
i go "penguins"
Not me tho, I don't care. Thumbs up nonetheless
Hooray
Water Temple is actually pretty good in 3DS, the quality life changes are most prominent here with all the changes throughout.
There is a Gold Skulltula on the vines leading to the small key chest in Forest Temple. It basically points you to the chest.
One could argue that the wolves make you slow down and catch your breath, or approach rooms more cautiously, thus making you more likely to find this stuff.
Ceave is so adorable I love that he gets so happy while talking about things he loves never change
I believe it was God that once said, “Thou shalt not place the Forest Temple below the Great Deku Tree. Or Dodongo’s Cavern. Or a literal water temple that is extremely gross to look at. Or basically anything besides the Shadow Temple and the Spirit Temple.”
He’s famously an OOT purist
Contrary to this list. Jar Jar’s Belly was my least favorite by far and the Water Temple was easily my favorite.
Exactly the same for me 😄
Jar Jar Binks?
Ceave expressing the frustration of the first key of the forest temple has me realizing: the reason i stopped my blind playthrough of OoT is because i got stuck in the forest temple unable to progress cuz i couldn't find that key for multiple hours, something which i only realize now, multiple years later
I liked the water temple. I was excited to go through it to see if I remembered how. There were very few enemies and things to attack you, and the ones that were there were pushovers. It was primarily puzzle.
1:53 "Second,we are going to use our four fuzzy rated ranking system"
Me: Is there a shortage of fuzzies again?
A few seconds later:
Me: Oh.
well. now there is for sure
Ceave needs to buy like 100 fuzzies or something
There certainly is in Mario Maker 2.
After thinking a bit about Dodongo's Cavern, Link went out of his way for that dungeon. The Gorons problem was that they couldn't get in, Link destroyed the boulder than randomly decided to kill some dodongos.
Ceave is the only channel where we can see someone link the dodongo statue with cyberpunk 2077
Inside the Deku Tree - 4/5
Dodongo’s Cavern - 4/5
Jabu Jabu’s Belly - 3/5
Forest Temple - 5/5
Fire Temple - 3/5
Water Temple - 4/5
Shadow Temple - 4/5
Spirit Temple - 4/5
Ganon’s Castle - 3/5
Nintendo with Ruto: Do you like fish girls?
Everyone: no
Nintendo with Mipha: How about now
"We prefer Sidon and are very glad we got to ride him"
@@Stephen-Fox I still don't get why people like this 3-meters tall fish lol.
@@legrandliseurtri7495 this species is a failure, thats why
how dare you disturb the Zelink ritual
MEDLI BEST FISH GIRL, FIGHT ME.
Also, looks like you managed to get a restock of Fuzzies finally.
Thank you for uploading just after my class. This is great stress relief.
I actually never noticed that there are no keys in the first 3 dungeons 😂
Zelda 1: "Dondogo hates smoke"
One, it's Dodongo. Two, I once had to fix that exact typo in like 20 different pages of an Ocarina of Time hacking wiki because I copied that typo into a database i used to generate pages.
@@mzxrules I am error.
@@DeconvertedMan but in ALL CAPS, and you need to meet Bagu first to get your hint.
@@mzxrules I'm just a blob.
lol yeah, while the hint in Dodongo's Cavern might be TOO obvious, I absolutely HATE how vague most of the hints are in Zelda 1. It's still a fantastic game and I love it for essentially being the origin of one of my favorite series of all time, but when you take how annoyingly difficult the hints are, and couple that with the fact that at the time, the internet wasn't in every household, it was annoying as hell lol.
This is like a poetry explication . . . You would never come up with this on you own, but as soon as you hear it you can’t help but agree.
I'm disagreeing a lot about the Forest Temple. Its unique ability to lost and disturb you combined with this uneasy OST really made it an unforgivable experience and for good reason. With Shadow Temple it's my favorite.
the first key tho.
@@dudestop7274 The first key issue is incorrect though. There are enough keys to find the compass, and once the compass is found, all unopened treasure chests are displayed, thus revealing the location of the first key.
You have to backtrack, sure, but it's still not the reason to get lost. If you are getting lost that means that you cant find TWO or more keys.
i like the shadow temple. but i have not played the game for a long time. you have a fair point about the forest temple.. i just remember being confused when i first played it when i was 7.
@@GonKillua85 Plus, at worst, this first key is only an issue on the first playthrought.
@@GonKillua85 There's also a Gold Skulltula you have to climb up the vines to get. Unless you completely ignore it, you'll find the key.
the 2 fuzzies for forest temple hurt my soul. the creepy mysterious atmosphere and the music, along with a bunch of creepy dead ghosts, spiders and shit, make it for me one of the most memorable places in the game. This is what getting lost in a dark cursed forest should feel like.
To be honest, I'm not a fan of the Zelda series.
But Ceave makes his videos so well that I can enjoy absolutely anything and everything he makes!
Understandable, the series has some duds.
I am
@@david_ga8490 never would've guessed
@@Overcrow03 Lol my triforce parody
(If you read it, it doesn't say wisdom, power and courage, it says nerd weeb and gamer xDDD)
“Let’s do this” is a phrase that leads to very exciting TH-cam videos
Last time i was this early, we only had a hand reveal.
It's funny, I specifically remember some people talking about how when they were young, that dodongo cavern hint didn't help them. Either then ran past the hint, or they didn't see the skill beneath them. One then tried to make the little dodongos knock down walls, another tried to throw bombs at the skull from below before figuring it out.
So yes, its pretty easy to most and giving the solution ahead of time. But second dungeon and potentially a bit of a "pay attention to surroundings" reminder.
Hold up
"If ocarina of time were to get released today, there is a high chance that the infinite sword glitch would be patched"
But I thought in remastered, a version of the infinite sword glitch was still in it. Bomb hover wasn't, only enemy hovering.
So when you're early everyone is talking about Fuzzies lol
HOLY HOLY!!! I can proudly say that I have the two HOTTEST women on this planet as MY GIRLFRIENDS! I am the unprettiest TH-camr ever, but they love me for what's inside! Thanks for listening tj
@@AxxLAfriku you aren't getting any fuzzies
@@AxxLAfriku I can’t tell what they see inside either but go off
@@AxxLAfriku wow people are getting creative with self promotions. Now screw off.
@@AxxLAfriku wheres your fuzzies
You suddenly just gave me a ton more respect for the child dungeons
15:10 Did he just... Say "she is my waifu", WITHOUT making it sound like he's a weeb??? How??
Lmao
I didn’t hear it
Accent and confidence
But how do you fall in love with a F I S H
@@Shrek_es_mi_pastor Look, BotW has at least a couple compelling answers.
Thank you SO much for subtitles. Not only are they useful for people who are hard of hearing, but they're useful for people like me who have audio processing issues and can struggle a lot based on how fast or slow a person is talking. I also have a hard time when hearing certain accents for a while until I get used to it, and the subtitles meant I never had to back up and listen again.
3:00 Never noticed that that one falling platform breaks into a bunch of smaller versions of itself
The intro thing is always a fun teaser for the video. Like "ooh, what does Braid have to do with OoT dungeons?"
I had to search up how to light the dodongo’s eyes because that clue didn’t give me an idea how to make it “see red”
Me neither, but at that time i was unable to complete the deku tree alone soooo...
lol me too xD
As he was talking about it I was remembering being a kid playing with my sibling and we were both stuck on that for (what felt like) hours before one of us was like: let's bomb it!
I think what probably held us back the most was that we were super conservative about resources in games and would only use ammunition when we absolutely had to.
So I don’t have to feel ashamed for needing a walkthrough for that? Yay
Dude, your videos are always so well thought out and written I could very easily believe there was a professional writing team behind you. Great job! Huuuray!
I feel like the difficulty and tediousness of the water temple makes it one of the most enjoyable dungeons for me in adulthood- the water temple is where a lot of my childhood playthroughs ended, and the feeling you get once you finally beat it and get through it is really gratifying. On top of that the temple is beautiful and the music is as well, which makes the brain numbing level design far more tolerable for 4 hours. Everyone has their own tastes though. Love the video! 🙏🏻
Just wanted to say that the Water Temple is better in the 3DS remake, not only sheikah stones are a thing, but the iron boots are now a wearable item that makes quicker the time to beat it. And thus, the 3DS version is the best way to play the game.
Never played this game before but I would like to! Hopefully they remake it for Zelda 35th.
11: Ice Cavern
10: Gannon's Castle
9: Dodongo's Cavern
8: Bottom of the Well
7: Deku Tree
6: Fire Temple
5: Spirit Temple
4: Shadow Temple
3: Jabu Jabu's Belly
2: Water Temple
1: Forest Temple
Do you think you’re ever going to continue the “worst of Mario” series? I kinda liked it but I’m not sure if all that many other people did
I can't believe you extended the Princess gag all the way to the subtitles... 5/5 fuzzies from me
Ceave has the face of a hacker in an action movie ngl
I adore the loving exposition on the 'eye puzzle' and how it really stuck with him for how unpredictable and unique it was and what a fantastic design decision it is. Because I hear that puzzle explanation, and I think, "Oh, the playtesters couldn't figure it out so they just plunked a sign down telling them what to do."
Itself an elegant form of problem solving, really.
I feel like an even easier way to solve the Dead Dodongo puzzle in the 2nd dungeon would be to just put the sign at the very start of the level: that way, the player would know exactly how to make progress, and the rest of the linear path would be them figuring out how to make it happen, kinda like the emblem gate in the main hall of Resident Evil. Just a suggestion.
EDIT: Also, I'm a little surprised that you're not including boss fights as part of the dungeon - I feel like they're a part of the experience just as much as the items and puzzles are.
Just wanted to say I fell in love with this channel. All the videos are super insightful and show a deep level of understanding (and appreciation) of game design. Great work Ceave Gaming.
Ok but like holy fuzzy he has the most soothing voice to listen to
This is such a great analysis Ceave! Like, man, not only did you expertly analyze all of the dungeons in a consistent and interesting way, but you were able to bring in other topics through great tangents and comparisons. Your style of content has been becoming increasingly unique and I'm really loving it. I look forward to more videos analyzing different aspects of videogames / the industry like this!
Ceave gaming: in the last video i called link zelda
also Ceave gaming: *calls zedla hyrule*
I think the reason why some people like the water temple is because it, more than any other dungeon in the game, requires the player to consider how the whole thing fits together. I feel like with a lot of the dungeons in OoT, the player can kinda get away with just thinking about the current room, solving it, and moving on-with some exceptions like the Forest Temple and Jabu Jabu.
With the water temple, the player needs to think of the dungeon as a real, 3D space where your actions in one area can effect other areas. You’re always making conscious decisions about what your next step should be.
Ceave: we need to memorize the correct combination
Master mode: ...
The point about the Forest Temple key was super interesting to me. I played Ocarina of Time when I was very young, to the point where I can't remember what it was like to play for the first time. It feels like I've always known about the key in the entrance room. So I would never have stopped to think about whether that was a well-designed puzzle for first-time players. It's just interesting to watch a video breaking down something from a fresh perspective that I can't really take anymore.
Ceave: I'll never make that mistake again
Also Ceave: Princess Hyrule, Princess Shieka
Fans: *Pikachu Face*
As someone that plays Ocarina of Time randomized (can heavily recommend it for many reason), I would like to elevate Dodongo's Cavern a bit. Randomized, you can often do Dodongo's cavern as an adult. If you ever went back to Dodongo's cavern as an adult you'd be surprised to see how well adapted the dungeon seems to be for adult link. Because you can climb higher, a lot of stuff that doesn't have treasure chests can be skipped. Some interesting skips are present perfectly suited for adult link as well.
In fact, I can recommend playing the randomizer in general. Not just to keep the game fresh, but also to see how uniquely wonderfully designed this game seems to be for just such a thing.
That moment you have exactly 30 minutes to wait and Ceave posts a 34 minutes video:
* Imagine Pacha doing the meme thing *
As a long-time OOT Randomizer player, the worst dungeon is CLEARLY the fire temple. Linear, long, if you mess up you lose lots of progress. Water Temple is way better once you know what you're doing and have the randomizer's quality-of-life feature of putting the boots on the D-pad.
Yeah, the Fire Temple can be frustrating at times for sure. I vastly prefer the Water Temple in the 3DS version of the game (I prefer that version in general), although I do really enjoy the randomizer and I do appreciate the D-Pad mappings for the boots.
Idk why I think this man is gonna either love or hate the Dodongo cave
I think that's more of a Polygon unraveled video....
Spirit Temple is my favorite. Not totally sure why, probably an atmosphere thing, but it's one of those special places in a game where I'd just go to hang out for no reason.
Interesting ranking. My favorites would be Forest, Shadow, and Spirit Temples.
The fact that Ceave can make me enjoy a Zelda video despite me not caring at all about Zelda just shows how he is the ABsolute best Nintedo TH-cam in my humble, yet objective opinion. Absolutely amazing
Mfw when Aonuma's apology is real and not just a joke...
The forest temple key issue could be so easily fixed if they had locked that first door. Then you would just have to look around the entrance room, see the vines, and climb to get the first key.
So I haven't seen his face until today, but he's cute as hell? I don't know what I expected, probably because I couldn't imagine his voice and manner of speaking belonging to a mortal physical body
I just replayed the Water Temple this morning on NSO...I gotta say. I think it's my favorite. I didn't have to pause that often to change boots and only changed water levels....4 times? I think it is definitely the most interestingly and dynamically designed dungeon that actual challenges your spatial awareness in satisfying ways.
Playing it as a kid definitely was a pain but I also played it recently and aside from the boots mechanic it's design it's pretty clever. It's also one of my favorites.