Colt Offensive Handgun
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2014
- Sold for $5,750.
This is a factory prototype of the Colt's entry into the Offensive Handgun Weapon System as requested by US SOCOM in the early 1990s. It featured a rotating barrel locking system, double action trigger system (with manual safety and decocker), and single stack 10-round magazine. Only about 30 were ever made, as military testing resulted in the H&K USP being chosen for further refinement instead of the Colt design.
www.forgottenweapons.com
Theme music by Dylan Benson - dbproductioncompany.webs.com
So, as of today, we can state that it took him almost 5 years to get to the HK grey room to show us the other weapon in question. Thats patience. Chapeau, Monsieur.
As for Chapeau he has a full collection of chapeaux.
I do find it offensive that they designed a combat pistol from scratch and used single stack magazines.
Has Colt ever made a good decision? I'd argue they made a few decent guns on accident considering how idiotic their management has been for 50 years.
@@leftyeh6495
Theyre good at doing buisness tho
@@leftyeh6495 I think the last time Colt made a good decision was when they bought the Armalite patents.
I was thinking about making this kind of joke, but a man of culture has been here before me.
A double stack magazine, such as the Para-Ord .45 caliber is acomplete better combat gun
Came here from the Mk23 video
Oh no the intro
pogogo51 I love the intro!
@@pogogo51 Oh yes the intro.
Next April 1st Ian should upload a video about how he's bringing back the old intro.
Came here from Shadow Moses.
Hello?
I'm glad they are letting you disassemble guns now. They must have realized the value that your channel brings to their auctions. Keep up the good work.
I can't do it for everything, but I was able to disassemble several this time. Glad you enjoy the videos!
Only time he doesn't take apart the gun is when it's something that either can't be disassembled or when disassembly may damage the piece
Hey i am from the future, he can do now whatever the hell he wants
@@skullofserpent5727 when Gun Jesus lays his hands on a firearm, it automatically springs apart, cleans & oils itself, then jumps back together.
@@skullofserpent5727me too
I know the channel is called Forgotten Weapons, but you're more or less the only channel on youtube that explains how each gun you "review" operates in full detail with disassembly and history lesson and comparison with other designs, will you ever talk about modern guns that aren't forgotten at all but that have a peculiar or innovative design or idea behind them, say FN polymer handguns like the FN Five-seveN and explain where they originate historically and things of that nature ?
Eventually, yes.
Forgotten Weapons
That would be great!
In addition, I must say that the tool that allowed me to really understand how some of the locking/extracting/feeding systems work, was a computer simulation game, Gun Disassembly (it's called World of Guns now). It has 100+ interactive 3D models that can be fully disassembled, and what's more important, an operating mode, with 10x and 50x slow motion, multi-level x-ray and cutouts. I'm not an engineer, so I would NEVER understand some of the finer details just looking at 2D schematics and text.
Forgotten Weapons I'd really like to see a side by side of the rotating barrel guns you have access to, including the Px4 series berettas.
Forgotten Weapons
That is really great I can't wait. Your videos deliver the awesome every time !
Forgotten Weapons
You know what would be an interesting weapon for you to look at (and I have no clue where you'd find one) Would be the G10... It's not forgotten so much as it's bizarre.
Nice review, as always,
No wonder SOCOM picked MK 23 over this contraption.
Seeing this pistol reminded me of an old saying:
"A camel is a horse designed by a committee."
@@ryantogo8359Yeah, when you consider the context of a camel.
When you consider why the phrase was said, it might make more sense.
@@ryantogo8359 I agree. All that I’m saying is it can be made coherent, if still stupid
"HK had a bit of an advantage".. Yes,they were HK.
They have a magic crystal that makes them win every competition for government contracts.
FredCheckers yes, they named it bribery
Honestly, you have to assume that If any company had an advantage in producing a .45 pistol for the US military, it would be Colt.
Was colts product range in the 90s really that woeful?
Milo W or maybe it's because they win based on their actual designs.
FiveTwoSevenTHR I'm not trying to pick a fight, but our government is more concerned with money than the effectiveness of its troops. There have been many designs that are more durable, cheaper, and effective than half the crap they are issued. The MK.23 was an amazing pistol, but it isn't cost effective for what it's supposed to be.( such as the cz. 75 which could have been easily modified for the role) [inserted more info]
I know I'm extremely childish when I'm saying this, but when I saw the title "Offensive Handgun" I instantly thought of someone etching insults into the gun. Having "Fuck off ya tosser" etched in the slide would make dispatching any would-be delinquents and ruffians a humorous affair.
+Blueswailer Yeah, and the actual acronym for the programme would be SODOFF, for 'Special Operations and Defence OFfensive Firearm'.
+Emperor Spock
Hahah, that's a good one!
I was deeply offended by this gun ;)
Glad I found another brit here
I couldn't help but replay 11:05 multiple times. That "Really, dude?" look is absolutely priceless. Many chuckles were had.
Perhaps an added gospel to that of John B.
And the Horsemen, after many years of living well on the arm that Browning gave them, were asked once more to build.
In their hubris, they forsook the simplicity of the System, and combined it with many other parts of unsure nature.
In prior times, they had profaned many systems of Stoner, the other pillar on which they built their temple of Hartford.
"If we combine the system of Stoner with the form of Browning's work," they said, "Neither prophet can fault us."
But in the end, woe befell the Factory of Hartford, as both prophets were aggrieved, and the system could not work.
And so it was that the Faithful of Oberndorf, with their faith in the Gospel of Browning, prevailed over Hartford.
Their arm would take to the skies, the seas and the land.
And behold, it was so.
So shall it be mote
Don Rickles' sidearm of choice. Perfect companion for his Insult Rifle.
skategreaser what about Ben garrison and David duke?
Rodney Dangerfield prefered one too.
@@codyjackalope8464 Those two use the Mk. 61 Hate-spewing Revolver. Guaranteed to kill all credibility and sanity at 70 yards.
The barrel has the 1 lug like an AK bolt at the rear to start it rotating, and multiple forward lugs for locking up, like an AR/M4/M-16 bolt about an inch forward of that.
I was going to make a comment about someone rolling in their grave, but Kalashnikov and Stoner were still alive back when it was designed.
8:25 I am going to have machinist nightmares now. That is a stupendously tedious looking slide. I am glad they didn't ask me to tool for THAT one.
I don't think it's QUITE as bad as it looks. Those locking recesses run all the way to the muzzle end, so they can be done in one pass with a rotary broach. The rest looks about like a 1911 slide. Certainly it's no Glock though.
This is AWESOME!!!! This is the first time I have EVER seen one of these not a schematic drawing.
As a HUGE fan of the Mk23, this is now my grail gun!
You’d have to assume that if any company had an advantage in selling a .45 pistol to the US military, it would be colt. Was it’s 90s product range really that bad?
Edit: just watched Ian’s video on the Z40. Colt in the 90s was *really* bad.
90's? Pfft, Colt was bad even back in the 60's. Those legendary Pythons and Trooper mk3 have a ton of issues from weak springs and timing issues
I can testify to a bought new in ‘92 Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 a friend bought. First shot locked the gun up. Totally locked up even a local gunsmith could not clear the empty shell. Twice sent back to Colt and a third time to a Colt armorer the same problem, first shot every time. Did Colt send it back without test firing it? Seems to me they did. After the gun dealer that sold the gun called Coot and explained to them that it was owned by an Alabama State Trooper the gun was replaced. The second gun worked great. Still a mystery about the first gun.
@@martinswiney2192 that’s pretty bad!
Colt... can't make any other semi-automatic handgun aside from 1911 variants? :B
Enomoto Takane why would they need to? 1911s are great.
Casey C They're fun recreational, great competitive and okay defense handguns. But, even S&W stepped up their game with the Sigma/SD/M&P line, same with Springfield with the XD/XDm/XDs line. There's a reason Colts aren't as highly thought of as they used to be. While they make decent guns, they're severely overrated.
+Seki Banki Honestly, I had wished I had a 1911 in service. The 1911 just feels right in my hands and it has a weight to it that a person of my size needs. Then again, I'm 6'4", and most people in the service aren't, so, yeah. But I do carry a Coonan .357 Mag 1911 and that's *fucking godly* for a 1911. And, honestly, 1911's are a solid, great design, and I love them, but they should really be improved.
Natalia Kruschev I like 1911s, but 7-8 rounds isn't that comforting. Not to mention that you have to spend a decent amount into the gun to get it pretty reliable. I love them too, but I'd rather have a SIG SP2022, Glock 17/19 or a 92FS. I liked my M9A1, but I seem to be the exception on that.
Seki Banki Beretta's are not my favorite, but they do the job at least. I'd be okay with carrying an FN45, but, I handle 1911's far more skillfully, as well as the fact that I carry two spare magazines. Gun on the right hip, magazines on the left. So, in terms of ammo, I'm feeling pretty safe at least.
Have they designed something halfway decent in the past 40 years? They aped off the 1911 for so long, they forgot how to use a ruler and a drafting pencil.
CM901?
You mean, an AR15. Jamming an AR10 magazine into an AR15 is not a new design.
Christopher Penta Why fix something that isn't broken?
+luvfreedom Which was basically a scaled down 1911.
@@luvfreedom1470 ...so they made a 1911 but smaller?
Very nice that you show how the mechanism works, I like the way you showed it with the barrel. You could do that more often, like, take us through the cycling of the weapon perhaps.
For someone that isn't too familiar with handguns and rifles in real life (I live in The Netherlands) it's very nice to see.
I bet the armorers are very happy they never had to take this into inventory. What a bugger to service.
These videos are so cool. Glad they brought you back to do more.
It looks less like a submission for SOCOM and more like a movie prop. Upon first sight it’s immediately apparent why the HK won, even without seeing the trials data.
I love your breakdowns. I consider myself, well not an expert by any means, to have an interest in guns. I grew up hunting and have expanded on that early love. I learn something from every break down, even if it what an extractor for a Swedish mauser looks like. Keep it up, us gun nerds gotta stuck together in this latest rash of gun grabbing.
Great video Ian. Very informative on the history of colt and their weapons involved in Spec Op trails.
A forgotten weapon indeed! I love the clever mechanics. Too bad it didn't work out for Colt. Keep up the good work!
2:49 Careful, Ian; the M1911 Mafia will jump your bones if you utter even a breath of criticism against the 1911.
coltonsin64 They are welcome to do so. The 1911 has plenty of problems, and anyone who claims otherwise is clearly not willing to look at it honestly. For the record, I say that as a person who really likes the 1911.
***** 1911 are pretty much only an american thing, I think it has to do with the fact the americans in general are very patriotic, as a european I can say that the 1911 doesn't have the cult following here that it has in the states, my personal take on that is about the price, they are honestly overpriced for what they offer especially here where a basic colt government model has a base price of 1,200 euros when glocks and other modern and more functional brands are about 600 euros new.
I don't know about the states but in europe no military or police agency I know use 1911, so at least from a user point of view the only ones who use it are americans and argentinians.
***** they are big here in Canada to
***** Turkey saw limited use of the 1911 then it passed to the m9 and m11, the standard issue firearm of Lithuania military is a glock 17 and like Turkey the 1911 saw very limited service, same thing with Greece, the U.K. standard issue firearm is a Glock 17. Sorry pal nobody use the 1911 in Europe in a significant capacity.
I absolutely love the RIA videos. Hopefully they continue to let you make videos on all the cool stuff that comes through there.
I love getting the chance to see proto types.
Thank you Ian for always showing me stuff that i can't afford!! I think we're all addicted to collecting but i NEVER seen this weapon i would not trade the hk formany Smith's but if one ever comes my way I'm going to want it congrats on your new nfa weapons your the best forgotten weapons!!!
I found this Colt handgun offensive
Someone probably has already made this joke but I don't care *shamelessly flies away*
Colt: Lets make a modern special forces handgun!
Also Colt: By combining a bunch of guns that failed with a bunch of outdated ideas!
Guess you got them a few sales, seeing as they had you back.
Good, these videos are always interesting.
Been a hot minute since I heard the old intro music. Always a pleasant surprise.
Great review, thanks Ian.
Love the channel. One thing: 33 ounces isn't 3 1/3lbs. It's just over 2lbs, unless your measuring in troy ounces (which would be incredibly odd as the gun isn't a block of precious metal) then the gun is still shy of 3lbs. So, 33oz=
In a parallel universe, Colt was awarded the contract and the Colt Mark 23 is in the Metal Gear Solid games as the “SOCOM”
A weapon to surpass Metal Gear?
Glad to see the production value went up alot during the years, it's really hard to hear anything in this video
Thank you for sharing this.
Reminds me of a Sig P220 a bit.
That gun is so offensive, it should come with a trigger warning!
I always thought it was called "offensive" because it dared compare itself to an HK
Thank you - informative as always.
Hey ian love your channel been watching it now for years and my past time in downtime I would say though this particular video is stuck with me and it just occurred to me replying to a previous comment what was sticking about this cult offensive handgun system I look at it and I see what could have been a CZ 97b just from the glance the architecture and layout it seems like that's what Colt was trying to create and I think if the cz97 had been around when this was going on I think it would have given the socom Mark 23 or the pistol that became the socom Mark 23 the scaled up USP I think it could have given it a run for its money Double Stack polymer frame it had a lot of things going for it but had the Special Operations commands stuck with a All Steel gun I think there's a good chance at this CZ 97 been around when this was going on and since he had bought in cold beforehand I think we would have had a much different outcome let me know what you think
compared to the Mark23 I see why they went with H&K yeeeesh.
Great video thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing, very interesting pistol.
I just don't understand why Colt decided to go with the rotating lug design knowing it would complicate suppressor mounting.
Personally I think that suppressors are overrated anyway.
@@elementalist1984 Having purchased a few suppressors, I'd say they're amazing.
@@leftyeh6495 just don't have a use for one. And would rather spend the tax stamp money on ammo or a higher quality gun. At least 300.00 plus for a suppressor and a 200.00 tax stamp means an additional 500.00 to spend on a 1911, 2011 or AR-15 I want.
I'd buy it for the hearing protection? Shit I've been around artillery being fired without hearing protection, I'm not worried about a pistol.
@@elementalist1984 well if you're a special forces or an ordinary guy who needs to kill someone with a gun that's not as loud as an artillery, suppressors is a good idea..but if you're not trying to kill someone discreetly, then yes, they're not really useful..
@@pikapikacool true, though I don't have a problem with other people owning them. I think the tax stamp is kinda ridiculous
This is gun is one of those things where one thinks to himself: If they'd have just asked me i could have told them it was a stupid idea and we'd have saved a lot of time.
This is the story of my life.
That is definitely a really cool looking gun. I want one.
You're right...the failures are a lot more interesting and intriguing than the designs that worked and became commonplace.
If you look at how the Mark 23 turned out, it seems like the crowded controls were part of the requirements for this pistol design. Beyond that, all of the other features seem to be genuine attempts to improve the design. Even the rotating barrel has some advantages to the shooter over the typical Browning design, it's just not as easily suppressed. To me, it seems like if they had more time to smooth out some quirks in the design, and if they hadn't tried to shoe-horn in that rotating barrel concept, this might have actually been a step forward.
Thanks for another interesting video.
"Thirty-three ounces, or roughly three-and-a-third lbs."
Do you think there are ten ounces in a pound?
11:04
I know it was just auction staff, but imagine some criminal breaking in to see Ian sitting there with the hog in his hand. 🥸
My thought is Colt could have worked with Para Ordinance and produced a hybrid that used a locking system with an extra lug for strength. And a decocking mechanism. And a double stack mag system. I have a P14 I've had for years. Only complaint is there is no rail on the dust cover.
"This pistol has pretty much all of the controls" idk why that killed me
...so what they really wanted was a 10mm Auto pistol.
Very cool pistol none the less, neat snapshot of US Military History too. I truly LOVE the way you break the guns down and show the internals/mechanisms. I'm someone who (it would seem, like yourself) always wants to see how something works and it's so neat to have it laid out in such detail. Good on ya, this channel is amazing.
Dee-Bee Kooper I know this is a year old but if anybody reads it, the reason why they created this offense handgun program was so sf could still get 45 auto for their 1911s they didn't want to give up. The mk23 that won didn't see much use, but still deserved to get picked over the colt. Today the hk45 has replaced the mk23's but they're still sitting in the armories as far as I know.
They should make some more of those. They're really interesting.
Awesome channel and video
Love the sling slots on the slide and no sights for aerodynamic purposes.
Ian, you mentioned that one of the SOCOM requirements was that it was capable of mounting a laser but you failed to mention how one would be mounted on the Colt. Also do the holes in the slide serve any purpose?
AFAIK, the slide hoes are just to reduce weight. The laser module had a proprietary mounting system that locked into cutouts in the bottom of the frame.
This looks extremely sleek, i give them that.
Great video!
If it fills the hand well, there was room for a semi or full double stack magazine, like the Sig 365.
what a deal! I got to handle one , in 1995 from C. Reed Knight II
Just coming over to say the left side of the magazine release button has some neat lathe work
The locking system for the suppressor/ muzzle break doesn't look like its very sturdy.
A kinda different comment. the grey background really helps with details of the guns showing better.
(it has to do with how camer alight meters work, they have to average to grey, so a lot of white requires a lot of black)
Yay, more RIA!
Drinking game: Take a shot every time Ian says "Just like a 1911..."
It would have been interesting to see if Colt could have done something with this beyond OHWS, especially with some lightening and simplification. I actually really like the suppressor mount, other than those awful little pins. The barrel lock up looks like it could contribute to good accuracy. Since it doesn't tilt for unlocking, OR for dis-assembly, it should be easier to get a tight barrel to slide fit. It looks like the SA trigger pull must be pretty short, did you have a chance to dry fire?
I'd like to have one because I like mechanical contraptions, and tinkering with things, and perhaps for people who like fine tuning target guns. However, I can see how it was a LOT to take in for military use.
I really like this channel, but I wish they would record with the sound level higher as I need to have my laptop volume on full, but still barely hear it.
Very interesting and unique
That's practically an OBREGON pistol. Patented in '34 in Mexico and '38 in the US. It's a 1911, with a rotating barrel, just like this Colt. You've got a video on the Obregon Ian. Surprised you didn't twig.
Count how many times Ian compares this pistol that Colt designed from the ground up because the 1911 was unsuited to the task it was being built for to a 1911.
I miss the old intro! You should sprinkle it in every dozen or so videos!
That thing is pretty damn cool.
I miss the old intro
I wouldn't call it that Offensive. 1911 race guns can look a lot worse LOL
Meh. Wake me up when you get to the Colt passive-aggresive, or the Colt politically correct.
I dunno, everyone is saying it looks horrible... I've honestly seen much uglier. It looks some sort of bizarre Beretta-ish design (to me) and it does have a lot of extraneous-looking stuff on it (those slots in the top of the slide, for example), but it's not super gross.
The compensator/suppressor mount seems like a good way to keep the reciprocating mass of the barrel smaller, even if it is very much "cheesily" mounted to the frame.
+Мейсу Семпай It looks like a 1911 that's abusing steroids. In fact, the only thing that could make it look more so is by adding a bayonet.
I believe this video has an audio issue. The sound is very low.
I thought RIA didn't want you taking apart the guns? Also what's with the little cut outs at the back of the slide?
I convinced them to change their minds. :) The cutouts are to lighten the slide, I believe.
PvtMartin78 there to allow dirt and water to get into the slide.
Ah, so you can have a fixed suppressor with a barrel recoiling inside it. I was wondering about that.
It looks like colt's attempt to make a Sig to a certain extent..I like it if only they would have kept it and do a whole makeover I think it had a big chance
What are the cutouts at the rear of the slide for?
could all the controls be there for the Client to test them out then decide on what ones they wanted in the final product? or was it designed to remain that way all along?
I see that in the channel background wallpaper theres an czech zb 53 or vz. 37 machinegun, is this an gun we will see on this channel?
Unfortunately, I don't have any video on them; just a couple photos.
Thanks
I happen to be part of the guys that tested this and other handguns at Aberdeen Proving Grounds back in the late 70's and early 80's the one major thing I didn't like about this weapon was the limited mag capacity and the the fact that it fouled badly in the field. It shot better and felt better than anything competing against it .Kimber later came out with the 11+ and that's what I carry every day.
Love the phrase "Flubbing under stress". 😂
I agree. They incorporated on this pistol, the worst features of pistols that were commercial failures.
Funny thing the mk24 that beat it is a tilting Berra a Browning design as well. Just goes to show if you want to build an good gun all you have to go as ask yourself wwjd (what would John Moses Browning do)
Is this related to the Colt Double Eagle series?
Rotating barrel 1911 variant? Like the Obregon? That's a great video also.
I haven't seen all that many Select Fire rifles that had 4 controls on the grip likeat. "What could possibly go wrong?"
How would one make a defensive handgun? Would it be some sort of personal point defense that shoots other bullets out of the air?
no slide lock for use with the silencer?
Captive takedown pin/bar for the win!
Assembled, it bears a fairly similar appearance to a Beretta 92... but disassembled, that receiver/ lower end is SO a copy of a Beretta ergo-wise...