Rogak P18 - A Cautionary Tale of Manufacturing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2017
- The Rogak P18 was a copy of the Steyr GB service pistol, with some disagreement over whether it was unlicensed or just unfortunately made. Les Rogak was a Steyr distributor in Illinois who managed to acquire a set of plans for the GB pistol, and put it into production before Steyr-made examples were available in the US. On paper, the gun seemed quite impressive - a stainless steel 18-shot gas-delayed military pistol in the late 1970s was something on the forefront of handgun development.
Unfortunately, Rogak's manufacturing left a lot to be desired. Where the authentic Steyr GB was an excellent pistol (despite losing to the Glock in Austrian military trials and to the Beretta in American military trials), the Rogak copy was quite poorly made. The fit on the gas delay system was too loose to actually hold gas pressure, resulting in the Rogak acting as a simple blowback pistol. To compensate for this, Rogak added a sort of fiber buffer stack in the receiver to reduce the slide battering on the frame, and ground off the extractor claw to prevent the rapid slide opening from tearing cartridge rims off. Numerous burrs, casting defects, and fit problems plagued the guns, to the extent that Steyr actually filed a legal suit to stop their manufacture.
It is commonly stated that about 2300 Rogaks were made, but I suspect the number is closer to just a thousand or so, with serial number ranges being manipulated to give the appearance of greater numbers. While I wold certainly not recommend any substantial amount of shooting with one, they make for a very interesting piece in a collection - guns of this quality are quite rare to find from US manufacturers!
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I like the idea that Steyr filed a lawsuit not because of the design theft but because it's just such an awful, awful gun.
I wouldn't be surprised. At first they were probably in the mindset of, "Well, sure, some two-bit asshat is churning out garage-room abortions but we're going to have mil-contracts out the whazoo so who cares, right Hans?" When those contracts failed to materialize I'm sure they would have been less forgiving of said abortions.
lmao my sun burn blisters look better than the Rogak P18 pistol
+Fuzzy Dunlop You win the internet award for funniest TH-cam comment xD
I love stainless steel, but this thing looked like it was milled in a highschool machine shop and got a 'C' grade. Good on Steyr for the lawsuit, pity it's beautiful handgun never caught on.
Or maybe thats why they didnt. They were like "Nobodys gonna buy this junk. Its not worth the money to sue them. Fuck it!"
It's interesting that RIA says this pistol is in poor condition when it's pretty much in the same condition it was when it left the factory, lol.
Same thing. :-D
More like good poor condition firearm code: GPC....hand select too.
NiB, poor condition. Not a typo. man, this seems like a well done high school shop project not a professionally made gun
More like "in the same condition it was when it left the *garage.* "
If ford made guns....
I feel a bit disappointed at not seeing STEYRS STEYRS STEYRS stamped on it somewhere.
Almost Mediocre STRAYERS...
Honestly speaking, rolex literally did the same thing to their watches -- rolex rolex rolex rolex rolex rolex all around the bazel, and louis vuitton and a lot of comapnies too
bilibiliism china is copying practices of "quality" European manufacturers lol
I know right
And not dated to the Victorian era or something
I can't help but picture Rogak as a used-car salesman in a plaid jacket, trying to cajole people into buying "this quality replica of a fine Austrian firearm".
Even the name screams stereotypical 80´s bullshitter in a pink shirt and white suit jacket...
I was thinking used car salesman black and white check suit jacket or western shirt and big belt buckle but yeah
Haha, old Gil from The Simpsons immediately comes to mind.
Ole Gil would try to sell this gun to you.
your comment made me chuckle
I used to work in a steel casting facility that made mostly automotive and aerospace components, and these are the kinds of casting flaws things would have been rejected for.
It's really reassuring to hear, that "quality" like that gets rejected for cars and planes : )
Well of course, you wouldn't want a badly made car, that could be dangerous. Guns, on the other hand...
A badly made gun can hurt one or two people at once, no doubt about that and it's a crappy move by the factory, I totally agree. This is something that shouldn't happen,
but
a) a badly made car or plane can hurt a lot more people at once
b) cars and planes are much more complex and (not an expert, so I'm assuming) all the important parts may not be as accessible or visible as on a gun.
c) You can and will (also not an expert, so I'm assuming) take a gun apart and take a closer look at it sooner or later, but I'm not so sure in regards to cars or planes (better chances with planes I guess, since they tend to do maintenance before each flight).
So in my opinion a shoddy gun is "better" than a shoddy car or plane.
moosemaimer Do you think the guy was casting them in his garage/ by hand, or just had the shittiest casting outfit in the US doing it for him?
Can we get Trump one?
There was a guy in Illinois to see
Who wanted to copy the Steyr GB
But this man called Rogak
Made it simple blowback
And in the end had to pay the fee
Nice gun limerick. Rogac sounds like a Power Rangers villain.
Wow, nothing like a pistol that looks like it is being held together with drywall screws.
Rather funny that simpler slotted screws (which they don't even try using for common screws anymore since they're so shit) are considered "more professional" than Phillips.
What do you mean "looks like"?
@@D8W2P4 that's what I thought, Beretta uses a standard screw.
@@D8W2P4 I totally agree with you. Slotted screws are a relic. Or shit, if you prefer.
@@D8W2P4 It's less about the slot pattern than the heads in this case. I mean, those are _clearly_ not finish screws, Philips or otherwise. :)
When your manufacturing makes late war German manufacturing look good you probably shouldn't make a firearm.
Joseph Bean, well, at least German last-ditch firearms were safe to shoot - this cast-iron POS though...
Was we hope test fired at factory.
It makes last ditch Japanese firearms look good!
their firearms are actually pretty good, Ian have covered a fair number of them here and they were... frankly surprisingly good, i didn't even know they had an excellent LMG until Ian made a video on it's parts.
but their last ditch firearms... those... will give ppl nightmares... the kind where the weapon is likely a bigger danger to the user than the target.
Actually the Japanese last ditch rifles can still take 3-5 times the critical pressure of ANY contempary weapons of the time, so no go there :)
Ian made this with a file and some sandpaper; he is currently laughing at everyone who believed his storytelling.
In that case, Im not sure if I would or should be impressed or disappointed in Ian... Impressed by what he would do for a joke, and disappointed that he would do a better job.
Lols
@ War Zone
There is a region between Pakistan and Afghanistan, the Khyber Pass, whose inhabitants are specialised in making all kinds of counterfeit guns, from revolvers over rifles to AKs, including counterfeit ammo, of course.
The quality varies from "piss poor" to "could be out of a factory", but the amazing thing is that even the high quality weapons are pretty much made with files and sandpaper.
He should do it for an April Fools special
@@Furzkampfbomber that's exactly why the "Anarchist's Cookbook" is banned. It doesn't take as much as people think to create all kinds of things. Not just deadly intentioned items.
Personally I think the Rogak is a rare example of absolute genius. You could make these in the comfort of your own bedroom. That's luxury right there.
Are you positive they had schematics of the GB and not just Polaroids?
now that's FUNNY !
It looks more like a case of hemorrhoids.
"It looks like someone described the real thing to the designer over the phone," as one of the guys on the old _Top Gear_ once said about a Chinese knockoff of the Rolls-Royce Phantom.
I have a feeling they were actually trying to avoid an inevitable lawsuit by introducing these design changes. I don't know, really. Or they simply didn't have the manufacturing capacity to reproduce some of the elements in the original design, so they have replaced them with inferior substitutes.
@@bmstylee ive got my bets on a vague drawing on a coffee stained napkin
ive seen Khyber pass pistols with better quality than this
"Babour you didnt make a bad Steyr knockoff did you'
I don't think I have ever seen a pistol that bad that is supposedly mass production.
Not really Khyber pass, more like one of those chinese mystery pistols from the 1930s.
I've seen home-made guns with better fit then this.
There are some home-made guns that are really nice, so you can't really discount something just because it's home-made. It all comes down to who that guy is that made it.
And vice versa, just because it's made by a (semi-) legit manufacturing company doesn't guarantee quality.
During disassembly I kept expecting *clunk* "Shit! I broke it."
'Rogak' sounds like the name one would find on a Khyber/Chinese Mystery Ruger knock-off.
I'm suprised that Ian did not mention the irony that this gun was made in Morton Grove, Illinois, the first town in America to outlaw the ownership of handguns by citizens.
Coincidence?
I think not
That law has since been repealed.
kpadmirer good.
Mmm, I do like a gun I have to point at myself to tear down. Makes me feel alive.
I left Illinois in 1976 because of that gun control law. I used to work adjacent to Morton Grove back in the seventies.
Videos about counterfeit/copycat guns are my favorite part about this channel. It's fascinating to see how engineers with varying degrees of technical understanding and manufacturing capability attempt to recreate weapons.
The Rogak doesn't seem like something safe to fire, to be honest. I'd love to see some more about the Steyr GB, though. That thing is beautiful.
I know, I was looking at that thinking, "We chose the Beretta over this? Austria chose the Glock!?" I mean, I get it, Glocks are clearly a big deal, but they aren't exactly nice looking.
Steyr GB is beautiful, grip is perfect, shoots really well, easy to strip and theres 18 cartridges in the magazine. Best pistol in the world, in my opinion. Rogak is just a piece of crap!
@@MichaelPoage666 price.
@@MichaelPoage666i have read that the gas brake system tends to make the GB heat up to point of discomfort after about 50 or so rounds. Similar to the HK P7. I dont own either so i cannot confirm myself. HK did add a plastic trigger guard shield to their p7 mid 1980s.
Khyber Pass gunsmiths are saying, "Wow, what a piece of crap."
LOL!
I have nothing but respect for Khyber Pass gunsmiths.
@@JonathanSicoli They are constrained by the aesthetic but sometimes it's what makes their guns special. Like they can make ak style semi automatic shotguns but because people there prefer Krinkov look so they made it looks like the AKs.
Rogak was made in Morton Grove IL, the Chicago suburb that simply outlawed firearms. I drove past the factory on a summer job daily.
Are you sure this isn't the reason they outlawed handguns?
Rogak sounds like a shifty dwarf from dragon age.
Rogak sounds like Klingon to me.
Rogak is Sandal's evil brother. You never see him with Sandal because he's always behind you.
@War Zone it's glitchy as hell but rewarding and fun to grind through
or an ugly bionicle
Sounds like discount Rogal Dorn
"It looks like it was done... Honestly, I... Want to say a Dremel?" 😂😂😂
Somehow I get the creepy feeling, that Rogak slide would end up embedded to shooters forehead.
The next level of piercing jewellery.
Nah I'm thinking it would shatter. It's Beretta 92s that hit shooters with slides.
Yeah, they fixed it in later 92 versions like the FS, but it was down to cracks in the slide.
I think the slide cap might blow off and go flying
The Rogak up close looks like a fake gun, like something you find in a prop department of Asylum Films or something.
My father had one of these when I was a kid, so I've always been kind of fascinated with it. (He sold it for around 50 bucks and felt like he got a damn good deal for that price.) Near as I can tell, there were three 'production' (using that term loosely) runs, with the second being the largest. The first run (2xxx) series were ~200, the 6xxx series anywhere from 400 to 800, and the final run (12xxx) less than 200. So, altogether there were anywhere between 900-1200 of these made, with 1,000 being a fairly safe estimate.
The 120,000 serial numbers were known as the 'best' in terms of reliability but were usually the worst looking, with machining marks and tool dings apparent. From what I understand, Rogak had less than 30 days to clear out of town, so he and his family hand-assembled the remaining parts he had laying around in his kitchen and were able to create another hundred or two hundred pistols that they sold to a wholesaler for about $10 per gun. The remaining machinery and spare parts were sold as scrap metal.
Rogak was a pretty inventive guy. I think he intentionally wanted to create a unique, well-made pistol that could serve the law enforcement and military markets, but he wasn't a very good businessman. His lack of financial acumen lead to cost-cutting in nearly every step of the manufacturing process, and he had the political naivety to set up a gun foundry in the city that would later become infamous for being the first town in the US to ban all handguns.
Good lord, I mean if you made this in your shed then fair play, but as a Pistol made for commercial production and sale, its rather embarrassing.
I dunno, I've seen shed guns of far higher quality.
John Browning designed from an attic pretty much.
So add 15% bonus embarrassment.
I can actually say Rogak is officially worse than Taurus....
@@carll.freemanjr.9867 i dont know about taurus pistols, but taurus revolvers are high quality, atleast the ones i have seen, i live in uruguay, 4 km away from brazil. Also side note, brazilian police is equiped with the taurus 92 , that one had a part made of plastic, but it was interchangeable with a beretta metal one, i dont remember wich one was.
Arthur Morgan 😂 LOL!
The one dislike was Les Rogak
That matt-finish Steyr is a beautiful looking handgun. The Rogak just looks like a cheap and nasty toy.
I get the feeling it went like this:
Ian wanted to say "This gun is junk"
Rock Island wanted "Say something positive so people want this thing"
What actually happened "This thing is junk but you should buy it anyway"
Dellacondan when did the internet get so serious?!
This was the Original Wondernine .
@@filianablanxart8305 Heckler & Koch VP-70, with a polymer frame and 18 round magazine too.
SO the European Steyr has the standard magazine release we're used to while the American Rogak has a European release. WHAT???
I think Steyr 'leaked' a copy of the plans from one of the early prototypes and that's what Rogak made. LOL!!!!
Funny that Rogak was based in Morton Grove, IL, known for being, the first city in the US to ban handguns.
Phillips head screws. OMG!!!!!!
-Jen
They knew what kind of mutant chickens they're making, so by that ban they tried to make sure they'll never come home to roost?
This comment was a roller coaster on crack
According to a commenter above, the Rogak P18 was based off an early version of the GB, named the Pi18
By the end of this video I expected this gun to covered Brevet stamps like a Chinese Mystery Gun that Ian has looked at in the past.
Ahh, the ol' Chinese design philosophy: Take a successful existing design, copy with quality shortcuts to minimize cost.
And before buyers wisen up to it, change the company name and produce bicycles instead.
Surprisingly similar to American manufacturing philosophy.
Yes, its called Remington....and they got sued too over triggers on a nickel fix that they let go.
Chinese design philosphy is, take something others made and build upon it without given a fuck about copyright, therefore getting somewhere.
Also known as the Freedom group Method
The Phillips headed screws on the grips is a "special" touch. I seem to recall an article by a notable writer of the day deriding these pistols for being a piece of junk.
This thing makes my NP-20 look more awesome ;)
Angelo DeLuca because they look unaesthetic and instantly bring wood screws to your mind and not firearms.
With the correct driver, Phillips screws are FAR superior to slot screws.
as a Briton, I beg to differ.
Not that it helps the pistol much, but those actually look like Pozidrive screws, which are less prone to "torqueing-out" and stripping the heads.
When your Steyr GB knock off makes a Hi-Point Look like High Art, one might want take time to pause and reflect upon the "quality control" of the manufacturer.
reignick1133 So true. As much trash as we fling at Hi-Point for being low quality, at least none of us feel scared to shoot them. You couldn't pay me to shoot this thing. It looks as dangerous to the operator as it is to the target.
I am guilty of knocking Hi Point but at the end of the day I know that anyone whom buys a Hi Point will at the least have a functional firearm which is safe and will put a bullet into a target reliably well.
Might be Big Might be heavy Might be ugly & low capacity but it works and it gives a person whom would not normally have the means to attain it a good way for them to defend themselves and their loved ones.
This thing much like the Remington R51 if not more towards the "ring of fire" guns of the 80's / early 90's just seem like a slapped together deathtrap of a pistol which is more dangerous to the user than any external threat.
Hi points get such a bad rap but there's plenty of evidence out there that they are reliable AND cheap. Two things that rarely go together.
It took me many years to eventually “buy in” to the concept of molded or cast parts. This video has sent me back to my 1950’s mindset.
Bill Ruger’s guns were all invested casting. Ruger still makes them.
I watched this in the hospital the day after my first son was born. I will never forget it
It looks like a gun made by the side very much losing a war, scrimping on everything.
I'd rather be thrown in the last ditch than use this gun
Emilio Singh I might even take a high point
@@jakedeforus6779 1945-made Type 94 Nambu.
@@jakedeforus6779 how about a Hi-Point Carbine
The Rogak must be a popular gun with the 14 year old sicarios in El Salvador and Guatemala.
Oh my God those screws on the rogak grips.
Cactus looks like they totally forgot it and just pick it from Home Depot in the last minute
It looks like those random screws from the junk drawer from my kitchen.
I think Rogak was actually an underappreciated genius in simplifying the design. No fussy tight-tolerance gas system, no extractor, no fancy-pants milling and polishing. Just a Dremel tool and a dream!
" with some disagreement over whether it was unlicensed or just unfortunately made."
...or: made, unfortunately. whichever
a copy of a pistol that had an action based on a last ditch rifle, with machining quality to match
The very meaning of the saying - "Good from afar but far from good"
For an extreme contrast in quality, and as a palate cleanser, watch his video of the Korth PRS next.
I have had the great pleasure of shooting a Steyr GB, it was a great shooting weapon. Definately do not shoot lead bullets, has to be sent back to Steyr to be cleaned. I did not do that lol another friend did.
I love how you can buy these new in box, untouched, for about $200.
I want to buy this. I really do. Strikes me as everything wrong to do in machining, making a handgun.
Also because it just doesn't ever shouldn't be fired.
That GB on the other hand, damned that looks really good.
Remember that Vietnamese STRAIGHT BLOWBACK copy of the 1911?
Vaguely.
What about it?
Did you buy it? :-D
reminds me of what you'd see made with hand files in a shack somewhere in vietnam
Your insights into the mechanical operation and manufacturing techniques make your channel unique! Great video.
You are a joy to listen to . I’m not even super into guns but you’re so informative , well spoken , and obviously “love your work”! Thank you
Just like a Chinese Mystery pistol.
Ian, bid on it and run it in a 2 gun match.
Use the Ladies' Home Companion as the long gun.
For a Three Gun, add a Cobray Terminator. Or that High Standard shotgun.
Please no, I fear it would blow off his fingers...
Always impressed by your videos and the level of detail you get into. Extremely thorough examination of temporal context and influence on the macro timeline and the micro timeline of the fire arm itself. Keep up the fantastic work!
Thanks!
I love this episode. I watched it many times.
Thanx Ian
I like the last phrase from the description box; "guns of this quality are quite rare to find from US manufacturers!" indeed!
Ian, do a video on the HK G11. You haven't covered ceaseless ammunition in a while.
Get this comment to the top!
Never-ending ammunition? I didn't know HK invented that! I think you mean caseless :D
Ah the old caseless ammunition problem. How do we maximize power and bullet mass without cooking the gun? You'd almost need to go the Mass Effect route and use nano-diamond heatsinks. That'd be an expensive gun...
For everything H&K G11 and its devolopment related, you practically have to visit the Wehrtschnische Studiensammlung des BAAINBw in Koblenz, Germany. There are several of the G11 prototypes on display there, even some partially dissasembled.
Good idea, but I worry about case integrity. Not battlefield ideal getting crushed cartridges in your magazine. How thick would you have to make the walls, and the binding material would have to be something that would burn up quickly and completely without leaving any residue. I'm thinking like Zig-Zag rolling papers... :P
Kurt Wehde lmao, autocorrect strikes again!
This gun is of about the best quality that one can expect from something coming out of the Wile E. Coyote School of Gunsmithing. This, my friends, is the WECSOG Premium™ Line.
I've been watching these videos everyday. I really enjoy the history and the manufacturing story's.
These are wonderful lessons of gunsmithing and collections of history.
better guns have been made in war time Rhodesia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanna_77 , i meant that but yeah the mamba was barely steps above shite
Keep it up! Looking forward for more videos from you, don't stop!
Oh man, I just rewatched a bunch of Lifesizedpotato's videos, including the GB. What timing!
Mike and Morrie owned L.E.S. at 3640 W. Dempster. Skokie ,IL. I was Friends and also did a lot of Business with them. They had brought in Imported the complete F.N.F.A.L. Rifle System and the Mag 58 Belt feed and the C.A.L. 5.56. RIFLE ALSO. Besides the F.N. Hi -Power for military and Law Enforcement.From the early 70's thru 1982 Till they went out of business When Mikes Dad passed away with Cancer.
They also owned the Manville guns which was a gas launcher gun made in the 30's, Which a copy was made for 'Dog Of War" movie with Chris Walken. Know the full history of These. And they never went anyplace. And was one of the downfalls of a very Successful class three Machinegun business. Mike is Now Retired. Was glad to see this posted here.There story of the FAL importation is far more interesting, A new one in box sold recently for $500 Dollars.A sad ending to something I was involved with for many years with them.
The F.A.L. rifle was the winner.The P-18 A Dream that became a downfall nightmare.
Jesus christ here i thought our wartime production rifles and pistols were bad, this would have someone sent to siberia
Ah, you are the Russian bear. "It's better to be hugged by the Russian bear than to be clawed by the German Eagle" as neighbours of Russia once said. Some russian wartime weapons where crude but worked.
Would love to see a side by side comparison of them firing in slow motion.
That was a very interesting and informative video, as usual in your excellent series. I've watched loads of your stuff and I must say that I've never, ever been disappointed and I've always learned something completely new.
MsG
Thanks!
I absolutely love the Steyr GB. Definitely one of my new favorite pistols :3
this reminds me of that vietnamese 1911 copy you covered a while ago
oh look the new Remington :)
I actially searched your video db for a review of a Steyr GB, and now I got it. By accident, more or less, but still: thanks!
Always something new to learn from Ian, I had no idea a straight blowback could extract without an extractor.
The Steyr GB may have been inspired by the Gustloff VG 1-5, but it seems the Rogak P18 was made like one.
Heck, a VG would work better
Rogak sounds like a low level star wars villain
I always watch you videos, very interesting content. You and Paul are my go to videos.
I always had a secret love of the GB, I like the looks and style of it.
I'm sure the seller appreciates the publicity. 😃
I'm quite sure he does. see my other posts.
I still remember the gun magazines for the L.E.S. P-18..."Give it your best shot...19 times!" (Superimposed on a target with 19 bullet holes in it.) I wonder how often a full magazine could actually be fired without a malfunction. ;-)
Also, I owned a Steyr GB for several years in the mid-80's. It was a very fine pistol, although a heavy beast considering it was a 9mm. I often wish I had kept it, just because you don't see them very often.
That was supposed to read "I still remember the advertisements in the gun magazines"...
Well done Ian..!
Morton Grove: First in service, first in safety.
Those are both lies.
I particularly love the drywall screws on the grips. That's a quality touch.
DID YOU KNOW: The good folk of Morton Grove were so embarrassed by this pistol, they banned handguns in their town.
(Well, OK, it probably wasn't because of the P18. They did have a handgun ban, though.)
I don't know what's more interesting? The guns or Ians presentations. He's good.
At the end of this video I really just find myself wanting a GB because it seems so well-designed by comparison.
Man that thing is nasty
Steyr: "We've got this nailed!"
Gaston Glock: Lol
That is the finest garage built gun I've ever seen.
Great video. Very interesting bit of firearms history there.
It would be a nice gun, when someone would tell me he made it alone by himself in his garage. =)
This may be a prime example of "Friday Afternoon Labour"
Except five days a week...
I've seen work like that happen.
For Friday Afternoon Labor, you just have to look at the SA80 series.
Good vid, the Rogak is a real piece of work I remember seeing an article on it and it did not really go into much detail. I was very glad to see some mention of the GB what a great gun that one is. I had one for years I sold it when the Assault weapons bill showed up in my state and it just held too many rounds. But its a great gun and really really accurate. I hope someday to find another one maybe I can block the mag to 15 rounds. Anyway good video I like these kinds of pistols good job.
I recall this gun, when it first came out, I drooled over the magazine capacity, and in Stainless Steel even, wow that was the gun I wanted on my hip. Thankfully I never ordered one, I had an ffL at the time, however my paycheck was a bit short, and by the time it got around to buying another hand gun, the desire for a stainless was still there, but I had changed my mind about the 9 mm and went with a .45 ACP instead, purchasing an AMT Hardballer, nice gun but it too suffered a bit from lack of finishing. The main problem I had would have been an easy fix today, but back then I was not trained, when I took her out to the range to zero her in, (She had a set of sights right off an S&W Model 19 in appearance!) I found that about every third shot, the firing pin came out the back, what was happening was the sight elevation screw was too long, and the firing pin would stick forward, then the retainer would come out an when the slide slammed forward, the firing pin would bounce loose, and come flying out the back of the gun. Now days I would have I would have simply filed the screw down a tit and put in into the gun, I am sure she would be good to go, however I was still new to the gun world, so I traded her off on a target M1911A1 with an UGLY chrome top, a huge rib holding fully adjustable sight system, this added so much weight that the recoil was extremely slow. she took every thing I could feed her so the work on the frame and feed ramp was very good. This gun was heavy though, and I eventually traded her for something else.
Hey Ian,
The Steyr GB seems to be a superior pistol to the Beretta from your description of accuracy. Also just from looking at it seems more simple for a soldier to look after too (Cant comment on it against the Glock as I've never handled one personally).
So my question is could you elaborate on why it lost its trials in Austria and the US? I'd love to find out why.
Keep up the good work love your videos.
It lost because 1 of the 72 requirements that the army demanded wasn't accomplished by the GB. It was superior in nearly every way to the beretta, at the same cost...
In Austria it was also the best of all pistols tested, but the Glock was cheaper...
ELJOCKEL Was one of the requirements a locked breach? The US Army loves to set arbitrary requirements like that that prevent perfectly viable weapons from competing.
Sean Heihn From what I heard the Steyr GB suffered from "reliability issues".
@@JackalRelated How can a Pistot this simple suffer from Reliability issues?
Unless you load wrong Ammo, I cant think of a way to make it have trouble....
This thing's design style and deviations from the real-deal are VERY reminiscent of those jungle 1911 knockoffs (among others) of the Vietnam War era.
Same design "theory" if that makes sense. I wonder if the makers learned from the jungle engineers..
The Steyr is quite beautiful and elegantly designed.
The Steyr GB. One of Paul Harrells most featured sidearms. That was the first place where I heard about the GB. Really interesting design.
What is the likelihood the it is a knock off of pretrials version of the Styer? Are their any known pretrails examples to compare against?
This pistol seems to have a few design features from the pistol generation before.
Extremely unlikely, since the "changes" makes no sense from an earlier design.
Why remove the extractor? Or rather, why add it in later? What modern military pistol doesn't have an extractor and can't extract unfired cartridges?
And the buffer stack that is there to essentially replace the non-functioning gas-delay mechanism of the original?
And it's not like the Steyr GB has an advanced new system that has never been seen before, as Ian points out, that system was developed for a late WWII rifle.
No one has finished watching yet, but I see 46 likes.
Michal K It's a Forgotten Weapons video, we click like and THEN click play. :)
Saves time.
Good plan but I think TH-cam metrics notices when you do that and doesn't like it so much.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing
The quality difference is apparent even from a distance, when it's side by side with the "real thing". It might not be a "Chinese mystery pistol" but Ian's "Khyber Pass" is hilariously accurate!
that's an insult to the Khyber Pass
Jeez, that manufacturing quality looks worse than the gas BB pistol I picked up a while ago.
Is there a particular reason for service pistols not to use philips screws?
Jack Mcslay I'd assume it's because the heads are harder to strip on flatheads, or because it's easier to find something to improvise a screwdriver with.
ToastyMozart Maybe another reason is a flathead is easier to turn without a proper screwdriver, so for military use that could be an advantage, and I also remember in the early days screw supposed be hand made by gunsmith, so flathead also easier to make and looks better on a high end firearm, British shotgun makers still using this method today.
Philips (also Allen, Pozidriv, Torx...) are better in terms of torque and durability, however they do require special screwdriver heads.
Generally there viewed as cheap and a lack of forethought.
You need a special screwdriver. My Italian army surplus folding knife has a flat screwdriver, probably for the soldiers rifle/weapon, that is usuable without opening the knife. Gave one to a hunter friend...
O' Gun Jesus, we thank you for this boon
The title is perfect. I've used this video as a cautionary tale for a number of new machinists that thought they knew how guns should be made.
The Rogak has a decocker. Point it at your crotch and fire! Decocked.