Colt's Prototype Post-War Pocket Hammerless Model M
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 เม.ย. 2018
- Production of the Colt Pocket Hammerless (aka the Model M) pretty much died at the end of World War Two. Military contracts ended, and the civilian market was quite weak - Colt shipped just 132 of the .32 caliber guns between 1946 and 1953, and only a handful of .380s at the same time. Several problems faced Colt in restarting production; for one thing, their tooling was pretty worn out after nearly 50 years of use, and was really in need of a substantial (and expensive) overhaul. In addition, many of the long-term experienced workers who know the gun inside and out had retired at the end of the war.
Colt did attempt to design a new model of the gun to reinvigorate commercial interest, and this is one of the three prototypes of that new model that were made. It retained the core mechanical elements of the Pocket Hammerless (fixed barrel, simple blowback), but added many external elements from the 1911, such as a short grip safety, larger thumb safety, separate slide release, magazine release button, and substantially larger sights. Ultimately the project never reached production status, and Colt’s next commercial .380 would be the Pony, a rebranded Star Model DK (which was also not particularly successful).
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Immediately after the war, there were a bunch of Walther PPs, Mauser HScs and other 32s and 380s brought back from Europe by GIs, so the economic demand for this kind of pistol was depressed.
I know this is an old comment, but I think two other big parts of the failure of this outside of colt’s internal problems was that the United States had a much lower crime rate than before the war, driving down demand from both people trying to protect themselves and actual criminals, and tougher legislation on small caliber pistols
I wish they could bring a replica or modern version of this exact pistol to market. It's really gorgeous. I like every line on it.
time to bring it back. I want one.
Timberdrifter Who knows with armament Corp. bringing the original back maybe somebody will think about it though hopefully not at $1200 plus.
I think your wish has come true. Kimber is making a new pistol that looks very much like this.
I have my great uncles service .32ACP Pocket Hammerless. He was a demolitions officer in the Pacific, and after the war was a dock customs officer in NJ.
My second cousin, his son who gave the gun to me, has told me a little about him, he brought back a trunk of guns from the war, including a Browning .30cal machine gun that his wife made him get rid of when his kids were born, he ended up chucking it into a pond on their property apparently. He still has a small stock of Arisakas and a Nambu
It's a shame this didn't go anywhere. I think it could've definitely been a strong seller, even at the time.
I was thinking the same.
I started to say you would live longer and be healthier but the sad truth is males aren't. So much for expectations for things getting better.
Wrong time to be selling a new 380 but yeah slick styling.
I doubt there would have been such a big market. Walther still pretty much filled that gap with the PPK, and between them and a plethora of other European manufacturers, the market was rather well taken.
Tormod Hjelmeseth - Then again, being born in the latter half meant you missed out on partaking in either one of two world wars...
Beautiful little pistol, what a shame it did not go into production.
Seemed to be a good improvement over the 1903, just several decades late for it to be introduced.
"My code name is Project 2501. I am a living, thinking entity that was created in the sea of information."
Great minds dudes...
Absolutely beautiful little pistol. I always loved the lines of the pocket hammerless but this is just beautiful
Just the video i was looking for, thanks ian. I love what you do, keep it up.
Congrats on 700k subs Ian!
Jacob Vestergaard now it’s 1.56 million subs only 1 year later lol
For many years I had to wear a suit and tie and needed a pistol that would not "tell". I tried many, but the Colt 1908 was the best for my purposes. Had they made that model I would have bought it in a New York minute.
A New York Minute is the shortest measurement of time, or how long it takes to get honked at once the light turns green in NYC.
Would you mind telling what you were required to wear a suit and tie while carrying for? It sounds rather interesting.
History number #1
Kimber started making their 1911-based sub compacts and people talked about how revolutionary they were. Colt was almost 100 years ahead of them. It looks like they were just ahead of the market.
Jim Vandemoter - detonics were first
Andy, I was not aware of Detonics What about them? I'd like to know.
Jim Vandemoter - Detonics Combat master was first non-custom sub-compact 1911; used coned barrel, shortened grip and captive double recoil springs. Ian’s done a FW episode on it.
As you say though Colt were ahead of all of them.
Man, that's a slick little pistol.
A good looking firearm. I think they would sell well even today in 380 acp and fill a niche in the market.
screw you TH-cam. Weapons are part of human culture and they should be allowed on the website. Im looking forward to whatever platform this man decides to take.
I like this channel and I definitely think that it should be allowed here on youtube... But I don't know if guns are a part of human culture though, American culture maybe, and some other countries here and there. I´m 30 years old this year and I've never held a real gun in my hand ever, don't really feel the need to and I would not want to own one at all :P
This design with the same outside dimensions but made of modern stainless steel and in 45acp would be amazing.
I love that safety switch. looks to be a very practical design.
The Colt Commander in .45/.38/and 9mm came out in 1949, weighs the same as the all steel pocket guns, more powerful ammo, more capacity and just a little bigger. That was a gun really ahead of its time. I just think there wasn’t much of a market for ‘compact’ guns post WWII and so US companies didn’t sell a lot of compact guns. Legal concealed carry was quite unusual unless you were law enforcement and pre-68 there were tons of new cheap foreign pocket guns, WWII bring-backs, and surplus. This one came around 30 years too late.
Man, that looks rather nice! I'd have one! The profile is a lot better than the old M.
Congratulations on 1.56 million subs!
What a cool little gun!
I really like the Colt M frame guns, they're one of my favorites. I hope the modern production guns get more popular and come down in price with more options.
This pistol is looks like a solution looking for a problem. In my opinion, the 1903 needed no improvement, even today.
Gotta say it, the ad for the cold weather gear...it’s Jarl Baalgruf talking, haha.
More info and pictures of the other prototypes:
www.oldcolt.com/collections/colt-pistol-experimental-prototypes
So many early model pistols need to be remade and this is a good example of one of them.
Only if they use modern calibers please, with modern metals they could easily make that in 9mm or even better 45acp with very slight dimensional changes..
@@someguy5444 I have a 1903. There are many, many pistols in those calibers; to make the Pocket Special in a heavier caliber would, I believe, rob it of one of its most desirable features.
Don’t know why, but I didn’t get a notification for this vid. I am subscribed and have clicked the bell thingy. First vid since I have been subscribed that I haven’t got a notification for.
It actually looks like a pretty slick and cool gun.
I would carry this. The change in mag release and slide length are small yet monumental changes when it comes to carry. This is one of the biggest shames that it didn't go any further.
Another great look at a forgotten firearm. It's apparent that the new model was designed to cut costs - it has what appears to be a 2-piece assembled barrel, in addition to bulkier form, squared-off edges, and a rougher finish of low-luster bluing and matte surfaces. Compared to the elegant, beautifully blued 1908, with it's factory carry-melt finish and thin profile... the new model was ungainly. Adding better sights and a slightly larger thumb safety would have been enough of change for the 1908. But as pointed out, Colt's Patent Firearms was hot mess after WWII, and it's long slide into mediocrity began.
My model M is in .32 caliber and has plain checkered wood grips just like the one shown here. I inherited it and it came to the family in the 1950s. It's ordinary to disassemble, but I cannot reassemble the rotating barrel with lugs and compress the spring and put the slide on the frame all at once. I can understand why reassembly presents problems to most guys...
Kimber made a pistol called the EVO SP. It is essentially the next evolutionary step of this design with a few more 1911 elements added. It looks very similar, but with a tilting linkless barrel and a striker firing pin; and it's 9x19.
Same thing happened to the Browning Hi-Power a couple of years back...
I would buy that in a heartbeat. Damn you, Colt, for not considering me seventy years later
Ian, do you ever get a chance to check out defunct vintage landmines or grenades? I think that would be a great addition to the channel.
One of my dream handguns the 1908 .380....beautiful pistol...would rather have the .380 but surely would scoff at the .32 either
I like the look of it. I'd definitely take one if they were produced.
I bet these would have sold fairly well. The grip seems like it would be a little better, the button mag release is an obvious improvement, bigger sights, and an easier to manipulate safety. There was not the CCW culture then that we have now, but plenty of people would have liked a compact auto for many purposes. Colt had internal problems? Say it's not so! They seem to have a new set (or recurring set) of problems/issues every 8-10 years, and they just flounder along the rest of the time. At least the Commander was a success, developed around the same time, and introduced in 1949. Great video as always. Thank you
Nah, Walther PPs and Mauser hsc would have killed it
This is off topic, but i saw that both Remington and Mossberg were making box mag fed shotguns. It seems like it adds more steps to the versatility of a shotgun. both companies were saying, "all you have to do is switch your mag to change your ammo." My question is, why aren't there more duel tube mag shotguns, like the ksg and db-12? i feel like a duel mag tube 870 or 590 would just make sense and not too hard to make. Granted the pump's grip would be wider and the weight of the gun would be proportioned farther out towards the front. i dont know, i was just thinking about how its weird that we haven't seen a duel tube mag 860 or 590 yet.
This is interesting. I saw this gun auctioned off out of Colt's collection a few years ago when they sold off a bunch of old guns and prototypes like this. Guess the collector who bought it got tired of it.
Nice looking little pistol, looks comfortable in the hand. As far as Colt prototypes go, any remote possibility of looking at/discussing a Colt SCAMP?
mike shaw oh yes, would love to see a SCAMP!
That's a really good looking pistol; looks very comfortable and the sights look 3 times better than the M1911 sights, the only way of improve that great looking pistol would be, IMO, to give it night sights, a Walther P99 magazine release lever... and make it 9mm.
Looking at them from the back, it seems the rails have a different system, which never got mentioned. Perhaps not any major differences in practice?
I keep drooling over the 1903 and 1908 's I see and now I have another one to wish for. I probably can't afford this one either... :(
slick look
if they were to build and sell it as seen here i'd buy one and edc it
Oh my god the greatest pistol of all time: the 1903
I have a 1897/1903 (1927 manufacture) Pocket Special, and it's a beauty. It was John Dillinger's favorite model for everyday carry. I paid $300 for it in 1989. After checking prices online recently, I'm glad I still have it.
Could you drop in a picture of the other things you are mentioning? Like at 3:25 for example?
Googling other/unknown designations feels like interruption that shouldnt be necessary.
ian can u do a review on Browning BDA pistol...???
One of the problems with the 1903 Model M was machining. It added a lot of labor cost to the price of the pistol. I rather expect the 'new, improved' version you show is much the same. Yes, I know the Government Model requires a lot of machining, but buyers seemed willing to pay. Looks a decent pistol.
I shot a Colt Mustang back in the late 80s and was kind of disappointed by the lack of accuracy and excessive muzzle flip. They sure look cool though. You can't beat the 1903-08 models for both style and function. Also,Colt never really gave their guns the same beautiful finish of those early guns. The Python comes close but my 1921 .32 ACP is like a deep blue mirror.
John, the bluing on those old Colts is incredible. Gorgeous translucent blue color. I think the reason we can't find that color bluing on firearms anymore may be because of the chemicals used, no longer available? And maybe not quite as protective as the newer methods?
Yeah unfortunately as you remember the Mustang did not like to feed many different kinds of ammo wasn't very reliable that was a bad time for colt
I think part of the reasoning for the lack of that beautifull blue is that it takes alot of polishing
Agreed. But even expensive rifles, pistols with high gloss "bluing" [actually black] can't achieve that blue color. One of these days, I'm gonna call Colt, or whoever owns Colt and ask about the color... what happened to it? Okay, it's on my list of stuff to do.
Prior to WWII, degreasing was done in a vat of boiling gasoline, and the bluing was done in an oven. It involved placing the parts in racks, then into the over with smoldering bone meal and fish oil, IIRC, and it was primarily the heat that created the finish. The process is detailed in a book called History of the Colt Revolver, Haven & Belden, copyrighted in 1940.
I unlocked the codex for the 1903 hammerless on bf1 just yesterday, and saw it was called the model M.
I really like this gun . I would like to think of a way to smuggle one into the UK .
How did this not take off? I want one too poor for this one
The 1903/1908 style is so much better.
Wish I had the money to bid on this!
Do one on the S&W model 745
The original is so cool looking. The new one not so much but it does look practical. Sad it didn't work.
Didn't Colt just reissue the Pocket Hammerless in some sort of insanely priced retro collection recently? If so, this would almost be the next logical step in that pistol's evolution - had there been enough interest at the time (maybe a lot of the GI bring-backs of PPs and PPKs put a damper on sales of Colt pocket pistols?), and Colt took the project more seriously than they did (I mean, they did make prototypes, so there's that), maybe this one would've been a winner. It's got better lines than the Pony, anyway!
I have the older version in 32. Need a clip for it.
Like all colts elegant, sexy and reliable
Did it have an after last round slide slide stays back? The 1903/1908 doesn’t.
Do you have a video with the original 1903 hammerless? I can't seem to find one on your channel
Only the Shanghai Police version.
My 1903 in. 32 made in 1919 is still a reliable little bugger
The takedown was identical to the 1903 colt hammerless I had one in .32 a.c.p. made a firing pin from a drill bit ,grinder +wetstone! Loved it " till a guy traded me 2 pistol's and 3 rifle's for it. Heck I only paid 50.00 for it in the first place!😜
it looks a lot like my Colt pocket lite in 380. It was not a popular gun; I guess it falls someplace between the Mustang and a 1911 commander
I prefer the smoother shape of the 1903/08 never handled one but its always been a favourite.
I own a 1921 built pocket '03, and while I find the grip to be a bit small for my hand, it's still a slender, elegant little pistol.
Where has spef been?
Neat
the rear profile looks a little like a Ruger SR9. I wish Ruger would make a single stack SR9 with a steel frame, and no front rail.
2:31 I thought he was going to say "a spicy new meme".
if you didnt know any better its almost got the same silhouette as the sig 365
Another great example of a once great gun company not being able to think outside of the box. By this time, Colt was probably controlled by the accountants, which was the beginning of the end for a number of great American companies in a number of industries. If the pistols weren't selling, maybe they needed a different caliber?
After President Stone retired in 1944, there were no gun-savvy senior executives in the line of succession. Thus, the more profitable company divisions, like the plastics division, took over Colt. These were the folks that alienated the veteran gun makers in the factory.
I actually carry a 1926 made model 1903 when I have to wear dress clothes. I have learned to shoot it pretty damned good with its non existent by modern standards sights at 10 yards. Would I bet my life on it? Yep.
Why try to make a 380 Auto, when the best ever is already here: the Walther PP/PPK!
The rear sight is installed backwards.
I like the original 1903/08 design much better. In my opinion, the original design and what it was made for can't be improved upon.
Huh. I have a 1919 .32 Pocket Hammerless I'm very fond of, but I'm struck by the fact that they were trying to update/modernize/improve the gun in the '50s and yet didn't even slightly change the original design's most irritating feature--the fiddly disassembly procedure. Or even the REassembly procedure. I mean come on, guys, even a captive recoil spring, something to make it so you don't really need three hands. Work with future-me here. No? Oh well.
Still, I suppose they weren't trying to develop an all-new gun. It's more sort of a Pocket Hammerless 1903A1. In that respect, if they made them today, I'd buy one. Or at least I'd routinely regret that they're too expensive, like I do with the Browning 1911-380. :)
if they would have made this ide own one!..why the gun industry never took note of the reissue idea that fender-gibson co came up with , ill never understand
But how would it do in the mud?
It's another episode of "Colt almost made a good pistol again."
When Ian wards off an assassination attempt during the middle of a video.
The basic design looks to be fine for a pocket pistol or drawer queen that is shot occasionally and hopefully never needed to save a life.
Looks like an early mustang. And remember: Colt eventually came out with a government model .380 which they stopped making in the late 90s.
Brian Slack colt made the pattern as the 1908 hammerless in.380, the standard model m
Colt, take my money
It looks very similar to India's Ashani pistols.
I'd have bought the crap out of that. It makes me sad to think of what Colt has become.
Ian, according to my son you need to pronounce "spicy" as "spoicy" or in this case the firearm was "too spoicy" for the market :)
5:30 Where is that laser coming from?
PvtMartin78 in case you're serious, it'll be the recording light for the camera
That is a reflection of the "recording" light on my camera.
I don't get how Colt has such a vast library, but can't seem to develop anything post 1980.
Shiny :D
The morning vids are no longer showing up on my feed, so I have to look in Forgotten Weapons. Subtle censorship. Annoying.
kodiakkeith I get them as always.
People have been complaining about this on non-gun channels too, Philly D has been talking about it for a few months now. Personally I haven't lost any notifications (this was in my feed)
1) It can't be censorship if it's not a government entity
2) Never attribute to malice what is far more likely to be incompetence.
It's not incompetence. It's an aimed, directed algorithm that phases out suggestions for non ad-friendly content. Doing this brings TH-cam's owners more cash, because more of the used TH-cam space will be space that is advertised on.
I would agree with your second point but this is a large business that makes thought-out, directed moves. Be slow to assume organizations attempting to make profit are simply incompetent, and quicker to assume they actually have some kind of end-goal in mind with behavior that may at first appear to be idiotic or nonsensical.
it's more likely some kind of bug in youtube than something malicious. i randomly don't get subscriptions in my feed but it's never happened for FW or IR
and i am not sure what you are talking about with the suggested videos thing, because whenever i watch any gun-related video the suggestion bar is FULL of gun related videos
I'd rather have a 1908 with button mag release and a little better sights.
Kinda wanna say it looks like a pocket hammerless
Looks like a Sig saucer
To forgoten weapons, have you had a chance to fire a working tank before?, i know common ww2 tanks around here in the states are shermans and i have seen some panzers, so i wounder if youve even had a chance to do an overlook on one?
I can see Bogart or Cagney using this rod on a rat.
I saw an ad here.
FW is not InRange
I know, I meant that this video hasn't been demonetised or even flagged by youtube.