19:28 to 21:30 This is the most beautiful theme and passage ever written, I can't believe it! It's absolutely magnificent and so well constructed emotionally and musically!
This work, this upload, shows why I have stopped listening to the two classical music radio station in my area (KUSC & KMZT), and now listen to You Tube. This piece is no longer played in concerts, and is not broadcast on the radio. A shame but, after all, there are only 24 hours a day, and most classical music stations stick to the tried and true, to maintain listener support. Here I can listen, AND ENJOY, without trying to rate it better or worse then some other composition, or some other composer. Thank you, winkle 522000.
Remarkable composition of a rare intensity, a dark and magnificent lyricism. Still a composer almost unknown on the air ... as Wikipedia for knowledge, fortunately there is TH-cam for music!
один из последних романтиков и лириков начала 20 века,мелодичный,чувственный, драматичный и сохранивший традиции великой эпохи РОМАНТИ...-это Борткевич С.
A very powerful and brilliant piece! This is a real gem that shouldn't be forgotten. But those who prefer comparisons are mistaken to judge Ravel's piece for the left hand 'inferior' and are victims of the modern predilection to racing. Music is not a race and taste and artistic achievements are difficult to 'judge' in the judgemental sense. There are only winners if any piece of art is beautiful and pleasing to any sense. This definitely is, and so is that of Ravel's. If one finds any fault with anything, that's another matter. Not the case here. So great thanks for this.
I so agree with this. This apparently incurable urge to compare unknown pieces to known ones and declare one the 'winner' or the 'masterpiece' and, by implication, the other as 'unworthy', is very damaging to our attempts to get rid of the petrified canon of overexposed pieces.
Bom Cabedal I completely agree with Bom. This tendency to compare everything leads to a linear classification in which Beethoven is ranked human #23 in importance (or something like that). It's very prevalent in America. It may be fueled by their obsession with sports competitions.
"THERE ARE ONLY WINNERS IF ANY PIECE OF ART IS BEAUTIFUL AND PLEASING TO ANY SENSE". I love your broad understanding and sense of perspective. Thank you.
The concerto was composed for the one-armed pianist Paul Wittgenstein (brother of the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein), who commissioned it probably in early 1923, and premiered it on November 29, 1923 in Vienna with Eugen Pabst conducting. It appears to have been well-liked by its dedicatee, as he performed it on numerous occasions between 1923 and 1930. It is the composer's opus 28, and is tonally progressive, beginning in C minor and ending in the relative major, E-flat.
Yes, a True Must Have. As I Must Have been wasting my entire life listening to Pop-Rock-Jibe-Jive-Boogie-Hip-Break-Hop-Canasta-Folk-Swing-Bluegrass-Blues-Jazz-Folk-Polka (Okay, I still like Polka)
I Must Have been wasting my entire life listening to Pop-Rock-Jibe-Jive-Boogie-Hip-Break-Hop-Canasta-Folk-Swing-Bluegrass-Blues-Jazz-Folk-Polka (Okay, I still like Polka) when I could have been listening to this ! Fantabulous !
7:10 trademark Bortkiewich! In his days it would be the "hip hop" equivalent of a sample or influenece, from one of his own pieces, the beautiful 'Le Heros', Bortkiewich Etude Op.29 No.6
On ne peut trouver une telle intensité dramatique si profonde et lyrique que dans Rachmaninoff, celui- ci ayant un sens mélodique plus subtil et inspiré....il n'y a pas de trou dans son inspiration mélodique, ce qui n'est pas le cas malheureusement chez Bortkiewitz. Mais son impétuosité romantique le pousse parfois plus haut que Rachmaninoff. On trouve même un côté grandiose, un peu wagnérien...Magnifique prestation de l'orchestre, pianiste excellent à la main gauche ferme puissante et sûre, superbe prise de son, bref cette mise en ligne est parfaite,merci.
... die nachromantischen Klavierkonzerte von Serge Bortkiewicz sind eine absolute Entdeckung - klangschön und erfindungsreich - der Zeitgenosse von Rachmaninow (mit sehr eigenständigem Klang) verdiente mehr Beachtung im Konzertbetrieb - hervorragende Interpretation, gerade auch dieses Konzerts für linke Hand (ebenfalls Paul Wittgenstein, der es oft spielte, gewidmet).
BELLA OBRA, EN DONDE SE ENCUENTRA LA BÚSQUEDA DE NUEVAS EXPRECIONES ESTÉTICAS Y DE LA LIBERTAD CARACTERÍSTICAS DE PRINCIPIOS DEL SIGLO XX. ¡BRAVO MAESTRO CYRIL MEIR SCOTT !!!
Indeed, Hyperion is very strict about copyright infringement. I must say though that a representative from Hyperion contacted me and gave me the choice of removing their material from my account instead of reporting me to youtube, which was quite gracious of them. Hyperion went through a period not so long ago where the label was in jeopardy of going under, so I understand their position.
There may be those that don't like this and their opinions are are certainly valid, but they're just not my opinions. I think Bortkiewitz was a great and very skilled composer who wrote great music. I've yet to find a piece of his that I don't enjoy. For some reason I'd never heard this. It's very fine indeed.
Like others on this chat space: I have discovered composers and music that in my 75 years of life have never heard of. I go to you tube now for a wider and more diverse selection of music. Thank you all for your wonderful comments, it helps me understand more.
La musique a son langage universel. Si elle exprime la richesse intérieure de celui qui parle, elle sera toujours création à l'infini et n'a pas besoin d'artifices. Étant bercée dans la musique classique depuis ma petite enfance, je croyais connaître beaucoup de compositeurs et leurs œuvres. Mais grâce à Internet, j’ai pris connaissance de tous ces Génies injustement méconnus ou oubliés qui m’émerveillent et me rendent triste à la fois, car ils étaient éclipsés par la modernité de notre époque. La musique dodécaphonique apparue vers 1920, est une technique de composition musicale inventée par Arnold Schönberg. Elle consiste à utiliser les 12 notes de la gamme chromatique pour composer une série dodécaphonique qui est conçue comme une succession permettant de faire entendre chacun des douze sons, mais sans qu'aucun ne soit répété. L'ordre ainsi établi forme une série immuable d’intervalles, qui soutient tout le développement de l'œuvre. Ce principe, artificiel supprime toute hiérarchie dans les hauteurs, ainsi, il va contre les principes de l'harmonie tonale, et crée une atonalité. Il y a quatre formes structurelles : droite, rétrograde, de renversement, forme miroir de rétrograde, multipliées par 12 degrés de la gamme chromatique = 48 séries utilisables. Je ne sais pas ce que vous en pensez, mais il me semble que ce système limite toute créativité qui a besoin d’indépendance pour donner libre cours à l’imagination musicale dans l’expression d’une gamme étendue d’émotions et de beauté ce qui doit être le but suprême de tout art. Dans le domaine des arts visuels, nous subissons la même limitation de la création qui pourtant était la référence de l’art. L’harmonie de la beauté est une nécessité naturelle humaine. C’est mon point de vue que, heureusement, je partage avec beaucoup de monde.
Merci beaucoup pour votre compréhension. L'Institut Mad-Jarova pour l'art, la Science et la Philosophie est à la recherche de compositeurs qui ont été ignorées pendant plus d'un siècle. C'est une censure imposée qui les a entravés les empêchant de s'exprimer et de faire écouter leurs oeuvres qui restent inconnues du public. Nous ne pouvons jamais assez remercier ceux qui nous les font découvrir.
Merci pour ces explications éclairantes ! L'effondrement de la civilisation européenne à la suite de la guerre de 1914 n'est sans doute pas étranger à cette cassure dans la musique... Bortkiewicz fait partie de ces musiciens remarquables victime des bouleversements du siècle.
Il ne faut pas chercher des similitudes entre les compositeurs pour dire q'une musique nous parle. Si elle exprime des sentiments directes et sincères, elle est authentique.
I believe I can answer for Winkle when I say that the only easily attainable performance of the 1st Concerto is on Hyperion, which seriously pursues copyright infractions. However, if you search for it, there is a pretty good live performance on YT from 2001, to which I've appended some informative comments. Just pump it into the YT search engine.
A beautiful concerto, and in my opinion it is better than Ravel's concerto for the left hand, written for the same pianist, who lost his right arm because of WWI. Great performance, as it definitely sounds like the playing is with two hands. Thanks for posting.
my opinion : you are absolutely right ! this concerto is so much better than Ravel's .No comparison. Ravel concerto is over rated just because it's a Ravel composition. But Bortkiewicz left hand piano concerto is wonderful, marvelous, romantic, full of passion, sweet and tragic.. a Masterwork !!!
I've been really shocked by the qualities of Bortkiewicz as a composer,but in this concerto Rachmaninov peeps so much....probably it depends on the famous "Russian soul".....a real picture of a world sinking....
The purpose is not the same between left hand concerti : Ravel was willing to give an impression of two hands playing. Other componists may have had another purpose. I didn't know Stronghold and Bortkiewicz. How many left hand pieces were written for Wittgenstein ? Three, or more ? Was it the case for Bortkiewicz ? So much to discover...it's ok. I'm only 61.
This concerto doesn't evoke Bortkiewicz' friend Rachmaninoff quite so strongly as does his Third. This Second is a strong, thematically integrated work, however his Third has a more imposing finale. Both are fine examples of Romanticism which should be heard more often.
I'll have to add a cyncial retort. Were there no accomplished pianists who lost their left hand in wartime? All these left handed concerti suggest pianists assigned to the front protected their right arm.
It's fairly standard Romanticism for the time. And I don't say that to in any way imply that it's somehow unoriginal or inferior; Bortkiewicz is still an extremely creative and individual composer, and the concerto itself is lovely. But the way he expresses and structures his melodies is very much in the Romantic tradition, and he is not shy about showing who his influences were, or even quoting them; this concerto definitely has nods to Lizst, Chopin, and to a lesser extent Brahms.
Maybe it's more simply tuneful (and I do mean simple)It lacks taste and judgement esp considering its late date.Listen to that schmaltzy violin duet at 15:03 .Who really wants this maudlin old thing.even Kreisler and Moskowsky wrote better likeable stuff.Charm is something.Bortkiewicz will have his admirers -few though they may be.I never doubt people whose careers and professional opinions are tied to their assessments -especially when they know more than me.Let's just say this more conventional cheap post-romantic concerto onlf offers what many in the beginning of the century were comfortable with -it lacks the force of Rachmaninoff who wrote lush late-romantic melodies..People who know -admire the Ravel left hand actually more than the g major concerto.Its orchestration is rigorous as if Ravel was trying to prove something with a higher standard of professionalism.Wittgenstein knew not to go to Bartok!
Bom Cabedal You really can't counter a numbskull who has no understanding of music but feels competent to criticize. You're right about the punctuation and grammar.
+John e martin III Oh, dear, John e martin (martin? is it not a name, with a Capital letter?), have you ever listened to this piece or just wanted to practice your budding English and faltering understanding of music?
Let's be clear: I don't mind people not liking or getting a piece of music; in fact, dismissal can be as important as embracement in shaping one's appreciation or art. What does get my goat is outright snobbery and unfounded dismissal of something that people have put creative effort into. And any reference to 'people who know' or 'commonly accepted' opintions is a sure way to undermine any argument. If you're not able to argue your point yourself, isn't it just possible that it is rubbish?
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I love this. Like most of Bortkiewicz's work, it's nostalgic in a way I can't describe.
19:28 to 21:30 This is the most beautiful theme and passage ever written, I can't believe it! It's absolutely magnificent and so well constructed emotionally and musically!
Shamelessly ripped off from Chopin’s Revolutionary Etude
This work, this upload, shows why I have stopped listening to the two classical music radio station in my area (KUSC & KMZT), and now listen to You Tube. This piece is no longer played in concerts, and is not broadcast on the radio. A shame but, after all, there are only 24 hours a day, and most classical music stations stick to the tried and true, to maintain listener support. Here I can listen, AND ENJOY, without trying to rate it better or worse then some other composition, or some other composer. Thank you, winkle 522000.
Excepcional! Muy al estilo de Rachmaninoff y Medtner!
Remarkable composition of a rare intensity, a dark and magnificent lyricism. Still a composer almost unknown on the air ... as Wikipedia for knowledge, fortunately there is TH-cam for music!
I just keep saying "oh, oh, oh" with tears flowing freely. Gorgeous does not sufficiently describe this glorious music.
один из последних романтиков и лириков начала 20 века,мелодичный,чувственный, драматичный и сохранивший традиции великой эпохи РОМАНТИ...-это Борткевич С.
Nostalgic is the best word i can describe bortkiewicz's works with
Great romantic concerto
A very powerful and brilliant piece! This is a real gem that shouldn't be forgotten. But those who prefer comparisons are mistaken to judge Ravel's piece for the left hand 'inferior' and are victims of the modern predilection to racing. Music is not a race and taste and artistic achievements are difficult to 'judge' in the judgemental sense. There are only winners if any piece of art is beautiful and pleasing to any sense. This definitely is, and so is that of Ravel's. If one finds any fault with anything, that's another matter. Not the case here. So great thanks for this.
I so agree with this. This apparently incurable urge to compare unknown pieces to known ones and declare one the 'winner' or the 'masterpiece' and, by implication, the other as 'unworthy', is very damaging to our attempts to get rid of the petrified canon of overexposed pieces.
Bom Cabedal I completely agree with Bom. This tendency to compare everything leads to a linear classification in which Beethoven is ranked human #23 in importance (or something like that). It's very prevalent in America. It may be fueled by their obsession with sports competitions.
"THERE ARE ONLY WINNERS IF ANY PIECE OF ART IS BEAUTIFUL AND
PLEASING TO ANY SENSE".
I love your broad understanding and sense of perspective. Thank you.
This is spectacular, I can't stop listning to it,
The concerto was composed for the one-armed pianist Paul Wittgenstein (brother of the philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein), who commissioned it probably in early 1923, and premiered it on November 29, 1923 in Vienna with Eugen Pabst conducting. It appears to have been well-liked by its dedicatee, as he performed it on numerous occasions between 1923 and 1930. It is the composer's opus 28, and is tonally progressive, beginning in C minor and ending in the relative major, E-flat.
A must have for fans of the Romantic Era...
Yes, a True Must Have. As I Must Have been wasting my entire life listening to Pop-Rock-Jibe-Jive-Boogie-Hip-Break-Hop-Canasta-Folk-Swing-Bluegrass-Blues-Jazz-Folk-Polka (Okay, I still like Polka)
Romantic era? This piece is of 1924. Modern.
I Must Have been wasting my entire life listening to Pop-Rock-Jibe-Jive-Boogie-Hip-Break-Hop-Canasta-Folk-Swing-Bluegrass-Blues-Jazz-Folk-Polka (Okay, I still like Polka) when I could have been listening to this ! Fantabulous !
7:10 trademark Bortkiewich! In his days it would be the "hip hop" equivalent of a sample or influenece, from one of his own pieces, the beautiful 'Le Heros', Bortkiewich Etude Op.29 No.6
On ne peut trouver une telle intensité dramatique si profonde et lyrique que dans Rachmaninoff, celui- ci ayant un sens mélodique plus subtil et inspiré....il n'y a pas de trou dans son inspiration mélodique, ce qui n'est pas le cas malheureusement chez Bortkiewitz. Mais son impétuosité romantique le pousse parfois plus haut que Rachmaninoff. On trouve même un côté grandiose, un peu wagnérien...Magnifique prestation de l'orchestre, pianiste excellent à la main gauche ferme puissante et sûre, superbe prise de son, bref cette mise en ligne est parfaite,merci.
so deep Romantic and reminds me the other Sergei ! I don't think I can play it with 3 hands LOL :)) second theme first mov is gorgeous !
Thanks for uploading!
... die nachromantischen Klavierkonzerte von Serge Bortkiewicz sind eine absolute Entdeckung - klangschön und erfindungsreich - der Zeitgenosse von Rachmaninow (mit sehr eigenständigem Klang) verdiente mehr Beachtung im Konzertbetrieb - hervorragende Interpretation, gerade auch dieses Konzerts für linke Hand (ebenfalls Paul Wittgenstein, der es oft spielte, gewidmet).
BELLA OBRA, EN DONDE SE ENCUENTRA LA BÚSQUEDA DE NUEVAS EXPRECIONES ESTÉTICAS Y DE LA LIBERTAD CARACTERÍSTICAS DE PRINCIPIOS DEL SIGLO XX. ¡BRAVO MAESTRO CYRIL MEIR SCOTT !!!
AMAZING.
Indeed, Hyperion is very strict about copyright infringement. I must say though that a representative from Hyperion contacted me and gave me the choice of removing their material from my account instead of reporting me to youtube, which was quite gracious of them. Hyperion went through a period not so long ago where the label was in jeopardy of going under, so I understand their position.
아름다운 연주곡 잘 들었습니다~감사합니다~🎵🎻📯🎹🌿🍀☘🌹🌹☘🍀🌿❤❤
Wonderful concerto... Hope to get this album!
There may be those that don't like this and their opinions are are certainly valid, but they're just not my opinions. I think Bortkiewitz was a great and very skilled composer who wrote great music. I've yet to find a piece of his that I don't enjoy. For some reason I'd never heard this. It's very fine indeed.
+Phil Homes: Yes, Bortkiewicz was a great composer. Neglecting him is a crime.
❤❤❤ Lovely passionate universal sound.
Like others on this chat space: I have discovered composers and music that in my 75 years of life have never heard of. I go to you tube now for a wider and more diverse selection of music. Thank you all for your wonderful comments, it helps me understand more.
great concert, thank you
Sergei Bortkiewicz (28 February 1877 - 25 October 1952). Born in Ukraine of Polish heritage. Studied and lived in Gemany and Austria from 1900.
Just like me 😅
On my personal list of dazzling works.
La musique a son langage universel. Si elle exprime la richesse intérieure de celui qui parle, elle sera toujours création à l'infini et n'a pas besoin d'artifices.
Étant bercée dans la musique classique depuis ma petite enfance, je croyais connaître beaucoup de compositeurs et leurs œuvres. Mais grâce à Internet, j’ai pris connaissance de tous ces Génies injustement méconnus ou oubliés qui m’émerveillent et me rendent triste à la fois, car ils étaient éclipsés par la modernité de notre époque. La musique dodécaphonique apparue vers 1920, est une technique de composition musicale inventée par Arnold Schönberg. Elle consiste à utiliser les 12 notes de la gamme chromatique pour composer une série dodécaphonique qui est conçue comme une succession permettant de faire entendre chacun des douze sons, mais sans qu'aucun ne soit répété. L'ordre ainsi établi forme une série immuable d’intervalles, qui soutient tout le développement de l'œuvre. Ce principe, artificiel supprime toute hiérarchie dans les hauteurs, ainsi, il va contre les principes de l'harmonie tonale, et crée une atonalité. Il y a quatre formes structurelles : droite, rétrograde, de renversement, forme miroir de rétrograde, multipliées par 12 degrés de la gamme chromatique = 48 séries utilisables.
Je ne sais pas ce que vous en pensez, mais il me semble que ce système limite toute créativité qui a besoin d’indépendance pour donner libre cours à l’imagination musicale dans l’expression d’une gamme étendue d’émotions et de beauté ce qui doit être le but suprême de tout art. Dans le domaine des arts visuels, nous subissons la même limitation de la création qui pourtant était la référence de l’art. L’harmonie de la beauté est une nécessité naturelle humaine. C’est mon point de vue que, heureusement, je partage avec beaucoup de monde.
Merci beaucoup pour votre compréhension. L'Institut Mad-Jarova pour l'art, la Science et la Philosophie est à la recherche de compositeurs qui ont été ignorées pendant plus d'un siècle. C'est une censure imposée qui les a entravés les empêchant de s'exprimer et de faire écouter leurs oeuvres qui restent inconnues du public.
Nous ne pouvons jamais assez remercier ceux qui nous les font découvrir.
Merci pour ces explications éclairantes ! L'effondrement de la civilisation européenne à la suite de la guerre de 1914 n'est sans doute pas étranger à cette cassure dans la musique... Bortkiewicz fait partie de ces musiciens remarquables victime des bouleversements du siècle.
Il ne faut pas chercher des similitudes entre les compositeurs pour dire q'une musique nous parle. Si elle exprime des sentiments directes et sincères, elle est authentique.
I believe I can answer for Winkle when I say that the only easily attainable performance of the 1st Concerto is on Hyperion, which seriously pursues copyright infractions. However, if you search for it, there is a pretty good live performance on YT from 2001, to which I've appended some informative comments. Just pump it into the YT search engine.
Clearly samples Chopin’s first and twelfth etudes, I love it
Also, the fourth movement is filled with so many memorable themes, what a great concerto
A beautiful concerto, and in my opinion it is better than Ravel's concerto for the left hand, written for the same pianist, who lost his right arm because of WWI. Great performance, as it definitely sounds like the playing is with two hands. Thanks for posting.
my opinion : you are absolutely right ! this concerto is so much better than Ravel's .No comparison. Ravel concerto is over rated just because it's a Ravel composition. But Bortkiewicz left hand piano concerto is wonderful, marvelous, romantic, full of passion, sweet and tragic.. a Masterwork !!!
If Stefan plays piano with only left hand with the sounds like both hands are played ?
I've been really shocked by the qualities of Bortkiewicz as a composer,but in this concerto Rachmaninov peeps so much....probably it depends on the famous "Russian soul".....a real picture of a world sinking....
What a Russian soul, he is a Ukrainian of Polish descent
The purpose is not the same between left hand concerti : Ravel was willing to give an impression of two hands playing. Other componists may have had another purpose. I didn't know Stronghold and Bortkiewicz. How many left hand pieces were written for Wittgenstein ? Three, or more ? Was it the case for Bortkiewicz ? So much to discover...it's ok. I'm only 61.
Have you the first concerto??
This concerto doesn't evoke Bortkiewicz' friend Rachmaninoff quite so strongly as does his Third. This Second is a strong, thematically integrated work, however his Third has a more imposing finale. Both are fine examples of Romanticism which should be heard more often.
З ким його тільки не порівнюють: і Чайковський, і Барток, і Равель... Харків та вся Україна за ним тужать...
Unbelievable ! left hand only ?
lovepeace20 There's also a recording with the sheet music,quiet impressive:D
Does Stefan Doniga play only by his left hand ? Sounds like both hands are used.
I'll have to add a cyncial retort. Were there no accomplished pianists who lost their left hand in wartime? All these left handed concerti suggest pianists assigned to the front
protected their right arm.
The third movement is a first rate thing of it's kind. But the rest doesn't support it quite enough to pull the whole out of obscurity . . .
Movie music
Sounds a bit familiar somehow.
It's fairly standard Romanticism for the time. And I don't say that to in any way imply that it's somehow unoriginal or inferior; Bortkiewicz is still an extremely creative and individual composer, and the concerto itself is lovely. But the way he expresses and structures his melodies is very much in the Romantic tradition, and he is not shy about showing who his influences were, or even quoting them; this concerto definitely has nods to Lizst, Chopin, and to a lesser extent Brahms.
th-cam.com/video/HxTQiO-I6zc/w-d-xo.html Австрійська сюїта Борткевича 2 частина.
о
Bortkiewicz est un grand compositeur méconnu. c'est dommage !!!
Maybe it's more simply tuneful (and I do mean simple)It lacks taste and judgement esp considering its late date.Listen to that schmaltzy violin duet at 15:03 .Who really wants this maudlin old thing.even Kreisler and Moskowsky wrote better likeable stuff.Charm is something.Bortkiewicz will have his admirers -few though they may be.I never doubt people whose careers and professional opinions are tied to their assessments -especially when they know more than me.Let's just say this more conventional cheap post-romantic concerto onlf offers what many in the beginning of the century were comfortable with -it lacks the force of Rachmaninoff who wrote lush late-romantic melodies..People who know -admire the Ravel left hand actually more than the g major concerto.Its orchestration is rigorous as if Ravel was trying to prove something with a higher standard of professionalism.Wittgenstein knew not to go to Bartok!
This comment is so full unfounded preconceptions and empty of grammar and punctuation that I hardly know where to begin countering it.
Bom Cabedal
You really can't counter a numbskull who has no understanding of music but feels competent to criticize. You're right about the punctuation and grammar.
Bom Cabedal Humans always have the option to compliment or criticise, with the accompanying vibrational feeling. ERGO - listen to your feelings.
+John e martin III Oh, dear, John e martin (martin? is it not a name, with a Capital letter?), have you ever listened to this piece or just wanted to practice your budding English and faltering understanding of music?
Let's be clear: I don't mind people not liking or getting a piece of music; in fact, dismissal can be as important as embracement in shaping one's appreciation or art. What does get my goat is outright snobbery and unfounded dismissal of something that people have put creative effort into. And any reference to 'people who know' or 'commonly accepted' opintions is a sure way to undermine any argument. If you're not able to argue your point yourself, isn't it just possible that it is rubbish?