In the scene where Dawn was asking Buffy endless questions about Xander, Faith told Dawn to go away because she could see how upset Buffy was getting. Faith was being a good friend and trying to protect Buffy’s emotional and mental health by removing Dawn from the moment. She may not use flowery vocabulary and she is blunt, but she was trying to take care of Buffy in that moment and I see that as a good friendship and growth moment between the two of them
You’ve seen that (American) football helmet Andrew was wearing before; Dawn was wearing it when Spike was keeping her from the biker demons back at the start of season 6. :)
This was the episode where I didn’t care if anyone lived except Buffy, Spike and Andrew. 20 years later and I’m still fucking furious about that ending. Ungrateful brats, all of them. I can’t wait for you to watch the next episode!
I never thought of the hellmouth potentially impacting the attitude of the group, but... that's been added to my headcanons now. Makes some characters' behaviors a bit more tolerable, lol
Any in-fighting the group does is supporting The First because in-fighting is The First's biggest tool against the group. Whether it was telling Wood, as his mother, who murdered his mother, or whether it was The First telling Dawn, as Joyce, Buffy won't choose her, which I think is what caused Dawn to say in this episode, "Then you can't stay here." Dawn's not choosing Buffy before Buffy doesn't choose her, thus playing even further into The First's hands. This moment goes againstdefense of The Scoobies. If said Scoobies wanted a new leader due to Xander losing an eye, kicking Buffy out wasn't the right option. Buffy told the group she couldn't save everyone in war and has been warning Xander how dangerous slaying is since said second episode of the series ("Xander, this is deeply dangerous"). I disagree with said new leadership of Faith, as does Faith herself, but the group is so against Buffy, they don't listen to Faith. Kicking Buffy out creates in-fighting The Fist clearly wants. Also, Buffy's house (as of the beginning of this episode) is the only place in Sunnydale vampires don't have entrance to, so kicking her out (whether they assume she can handle herself or not) is a mistake. Xander retcons everything good he says about Buffy during his earlier episode speech (the one that had Buffy crying happy tears) by kicking her out. He also goes against what he should have learned all the way back in the two hour pilot when Buffy says, "Xander, this is deeply dangerous" when he dismisses her, thinking she's looking down on him when she is actually telling him directly of dangers. The fact that he dismisses this and thinks Buffy's thinking him, "less than a man," compared to what he's saying now, shows a long term-ness of never really taking Buffy seriously in these type of situations. I criticize him (and everyone else) for not listening to all her (including the S7) speeches or any other moments like those (Andrew even caught Willow paying more attention to Kennedy than the speech Buffy was giving in the _Storyteller_ episode). The writers stated in behind the scenes footage that Xander losing an eye is the reason behind the kicking Buffy out moment. There's an argument fans have against Buffy saying she leaves willingly. The defense I have there is that it is the difference between a person resigning and a person getting fired. Resigning, in this case, is getting fired without the higher ups saying so. The argument of Buffy leaving on her own is Buffy "resigning" herself to the fact that she isn't The General anymore and doesn't want to in-fight, as The First wants. Its just another form of getting kicked aka "fired" from being The General because The Scoobies don't trust her leadership due to being scared because they haven't been taking Buffy seriously. Anya was one of four people who resurrected Buffy (the others being Willow, Tara and Xander) and therefore allowed The First to create the S7 plot of killing the slayer line. She, Giles and possibly Willow know this, so them blaming Buffy for anything happening is not OK, considering the first domino pushed is on their shoulders. It is wrong that Anya says Buffy didn't earn the role of slayer or general, considering everything Buffy has done for them. The list on what Buffy has done for everyone could go on for 104 hours and 34 minutes (the length of the series to this point). And on top of that, Anya didn't earn her power either. She was given it so she could murder, torture, etc., which she did through the power of the wish for over 1000 years. Why did Giles call Buffy the general of the group if he was just going to undermine her at every decision he didn't like and toss her out when things went wrong? Buffy warned them all things like this would happen. Why weren't they listening? Post S6 Willow has a lot of nerve calling Buffy on a lack of judgement. Didn't the Scoobies (including Dawn) learn anything from when Joyce kicked Buffy out in S2? It's a good thing Buffy has grown emotionally since then. Too bad the group still don't trust Buffy any more now than they did then. Buffy brought up certain points to Xander during their _Selfless_ fight about what it means to be The Slayer, so the fact that the group, in this episode, are throwing those moments in Buffy's face (those moments specifically being: cutting herself off, someone needing to draw a line, having no guide book to the job of a slayer [and there is a slayer guidebook/handbook, Giles just never gives it to her, so that one is on him], and fighting alone), shows, once again, The Scoobies haven't been listening to Buffy, even before the war with The First started about even the moments not involving The First and its war. Buffy learns from her mistakes. I don't always feel Xander and Willow do. If they still don't understand Buffy's decisions, and are throwing insults at her, I just don't feel they have learned what they should already know about Buffy seven seasons later. Buffy has learned from Giles' "this isn't a joke" chastisement in _First Date,_ while none of the other Scoobies did, if they were recently going to The Bronze for fun. Giles himself seemed to revert, if he is urging the fun after the _First Date_ chastisement, or at least he has an agenda of his own that goes against what he said when he called Buffy the general upon first showing up in Sunnydale. The group go against everything Buffy learned in _First Date, Never Kill a Boy on the First Date_ and _Reptile Boy_ when they kick Buffy out. Buffy may or may not have a good idea in going back to the vineyard. Risky either way. Just like war always is. That is not the problem. The real problem is Xander's eye is a moment when the group finally realize Buffy has been right about the danger, and are taking it out on her because she is the General. I get that The Scoobies and SIT's are scared, but none of what they do in kicking Buffy out does anything except exactly what The First wants.
Yes and also: A house really belongs to "whoever is paying for its taxes, repairs, etc.". Was DAWN paying for the house, if it was "her house too" (????)
I always thought the kick out scene was the group being under the influence of the Hellmouth. Like the cops, and the students at school before. The only people not changed by it are Buffy and Faith. Don't know why people get so weird about it. I liked it. It made me mad. I want to feel something when watching a show. 🤷🏻
This episode will always be poorly received because of those final scenes. Kicking Buffy out of her own house after they all mooched off her is so silly and removing the only person who has experience against The First and has "saved the world a lot" just because of one decision is even sillier. There was a better way to go about handling that entire situation, writing wise, but it is what it is. I think this episode is what did the most damage against The Potentials because it's the most unlikable all of them have been and there's not enough episodes left for them to recover.
The last few episodes of the S7 had so much going on it was hard to keep up. The way they all turned against Buffy after all she had done for them over the years was so painful to watch at the time. Kennedy and Rhona were utterly despicable, along with the rest of the Scooby Gang. All this leads up to the brilliance of the last few episodes, super writing again, but Andrew is still utterly irritating if entertaining also. Spike reading the scripture, brilliant foreshadowing here. Buffy is of course right they always try to protect the power, they must return to the vineyard, there is a reason for Caleb wanting to defend it. This episode is all about the meeting in Buffy's house this is so difficult to watch with Dawn striking the final blow, after Buffy laid down her very life to save her. We know there is only one who will stand by Buffy, even though he is not at the meeting he has read the scripture 'it is not for thee, it is for her alone to wield'.
SMG was prone to a lot of cold and throat issues back then. She said it was probably because she was on planes constantly. I think Wood was trying to just understand Faith in his scene with her. I have more perspective on the Buffy ousting scene. I feel like she didn't give them enough reason to go back in...HOWEVER, I'm still PISSED off every time I see the scene. It wasn't fair and Buffy should have thrown THEIR asses out. I think it was completely out of character. I've decided that Giles is actually The First. That's not true, but that helps me manage his character this season.
I love that they stopped to give a Clem scene. Buffy as a show really treats the side characters well.
In the scene where Dawn was asking Buffy endless questions about Xander, Faith told Dawn to go away because she could see how upset Buffy was getting. Faith was being a good friend and trying to protect Buffy’s emotional and mental health by removing Dawn from the moment. She may not use flowery vocabulary and she is blunt, but she was trying to take care of Buffy in that moment and I see that as a good friendship and growth moment between the two of them
Faith is actually really nice since she got out of priso. Not the best with word but yeah
You’ve seen that (American) football helmet Andrew was wearing before; Dawn was wearing it when Spike was keeping her from the biker demons back at the start of season 6. :)
This was the episode where I didn’t care if anyone lived except Buffy, Spike and Andrew. 20 years later and I’m still fucking furious about that ending. Ungrateful brats, all of them. I can’t wait for you to watch the next episode!
Just recently learned the band playing in this episode did the buffy theme song
Can't believe you're almost at the end of the series!
@@sathvamp1 RIght?! Tomorrow will be the last upload. 😲 You've timed it perfectly. 🙂
I never thought of the hellmouth potentially impacting the attitude of the group, but... that's been added to my headcanons now. Makes some characters' behaviors a bit more tolerable, lol
Yeah, I never made that association either, but it actually makes sense.
I guess the writers felt like they needed some drama to draw out the last couple episodes
Any in-fighting the group does is supporting The First because in-fighting is The First's biggest tool against the group. Whether it was telling Wood, as his mother, who murdered his mother, or whether it was The First telling Dawn, as Joyce, Buffy won't choose her, which I think is what caused Dawn to say in this episode, "Then you can't stay here." Dawn's not choosing Buffy before Buffy doesn't choose her, thus playing even further into The First's hands. This moment goes againstdefense of The Scoobies. If said Scoobies wanted a new leader due to Xander losing an eye, kicking Buffy out wasn't the right option. Buffy told the group she couldn't save everyone in war and has been warning Xander how dangerous slaying is since said second episode of the series ("Xander, this is deeply dangerous"). I disagree with said new leadership of Faith, as does Faith herself, but the group is so against Buffy, they don't listen to Faith. Kicking Buffy out creates in-fighting The Fist clearly wants. Also, Buffy's house (as of the beginning of this episode) is the only place in Sunnydale vampires don't have entrance to, so kicking her out (whether they assume she can handle herself or not) is a mistake.
Xander retcons everything good he says about Buffy during his earlier episode speech (the one that had Buffy crying happy tears) by kicking her out. He also goes against what he should have learned all the way back in the two hour pilot when Buffy says, "Xander, this is deeply dangerous" when he dismisses her, thinking she's looking down on him when she is actually telling him directly of dangers. The fact that he dismisses this and thinks Buffy's thinking him, "less than a man," compared to what he's saying now, shows a long term-ness of never really taking Buffy seriously in these type of situations. I criticize him (and everyone else) for not listening to all her (including the S7) speeches or any other moments like those (Andrew even caught Willow paying more attention to Kennedy than the speech Buffy was giving in the _Storyteller_ episode). The writers stated in behind the scenes footage that Xander losing an eye is the reason behind the kicking Buffy out moment.
There's an argument fans have against Buffy saying she leaves willingly. The defense I have there is that it is the difference between a person resigning and a person getting fired. Resigning, in this case, is getting fired without the higher ups saying so. The argument of Buffy leaving on her own is Buffy "resigning" herself to the fact that she isn't The General anymore and doesn't want to in-fight, as The First wants. Its just another form of getting kicked aka "fired" from being The General because The Scoobies don't trust her leadership due to being scared because they haven't been taking Buffy seriously.
Anya was one of four people who resurrected Buffy (the others being Willow, Tara and Xander) and therefore allowed The First to create the S7 plot of killing the slayer line. She, Giles and possibly Willow know this, so them blaming Buffy for anything happening is not OK, considering the first domino pushed is on their shoulders.
It is wrong that Anya says Buffy didn't earn the role of slayer or general, considering everything Buffy has done for them. The list on what Buffy has done for everyone could go on for 104 hours and 34 minutes (the length of the series to this point). And on top of that, Anya didn't earn her power either. She was given it so she could murder, torture, etc., which she did through the power of the wish for over 1000 years.
Why did Giles call Buffy the general of the group if he was just going to undermine her at every decision he didn't like and toss her out when things went wrong? Buffy warned them all things like this would happen. Why weren't they listening?
Post S6 Willow has a lot of nerve calling Buffy on a lack of judgement.
Didn't the Scoobies (including Dawn) learn anything from when Joyce kicked Buffy out in S2? It's a good thing Buffy has grown emotionally since then. Too bad the group still don't trust Buffy any more now than they did then.
Buffy brought up certain points to Xander during their _Selfless_ fight about what it means to be The Slayer, so the fact that the group, in this episode, are throwing those moments in Buffy's face (those moments specifically being: cutting herself off, someone needing to draw a line, having no guide book to the job of a slayer [and there is a slayer guidebook/handbook, Giles just never gives it to her, so that one is on him], and fighting alone), shows, once again, The Scoobies haven't been listening to Buffy, even before the war with The First started about even the moments not involving The First and its war.
Buffy learns from her mistakes. I don't always feel Xander and Willow do. If they still don't understand Buffy's decisions, and are throwing insults at her, I just don't feel they have learned what they should already know about Buffy seven seasons later. Buffy has learned from Giles' "this isn't a joke" chastisement in _First Date,_ while none of the other Scoobies did, if they were recently going to The Bronze for fun. Giles himself seemed to revert, if he is urging the fun after the _First Date_ chastisement, or at least he has an agenda of his own that goes against what he said when he called Buffy the general upon first showing up in Sunnydale. The group go against everything Buffy learned in _First Date, Never Kill a Boy on the First Date_ and _Reptile Boy_ when they kick Buffy out.
Buffy may or may not have a good idea in going back to the vineyard. Risky either way. Just like war always is. That is not the problem. The real problem is Xander's eye is a moment when the group finally realize Buffy has been right about the danger, and are taking it out on her because she is the General. I get that The Scoobies and SIT's are scared, but none of what they do in kicking Buffy out does anything except exactly what The First wants.
Dawn, the little annoyance, killing Buffy out of her OWN house. How rude.
Yes and also: A house really belongs to "whoever is paying for its taxes, repairs, etc.". Was DAWN paying for the house, if it was "her house too" (????)
❤🧡💛💚💙💜🤎🖤🤍
I always thought the kick out scene was the group being under the influence of the Hellmouth. Like the cops, and the students at school before. The only people not changed by it are Buffy and Faith. Don't know why people get so weird about it. I liked it. It made me mad. I want to feel something when watching a show. 🤷🏻
This episode will always be poorly received because of those final scenes. Kicking Buffy out of her own house after they all mooched off her is so silly and removing the only person who has experience against The First and has "saved the world a lot" just because of one decision is even sillier. There was a better way to go about handling that entire situation, writing wise, but it is what it is. I think this episode is what did the most damage against The Potentials because it's the most unlikable all of them have been and there's not enough episodes left for them to recover.
The last few episodes of the S7 had so much going on it was hard to keep up. The way they all turned against Buffy after all she had done for them over the years was so painful to watch at the time. Kennedy and Rhona were utterly despicable, along with the rest of the Scooby Gang. All this leads up to the brilliance of the last few episodes, super writing again, but Andrew is still utterly irritating if entertaining also. Spike reading the scripture, brilliant foreshadowing here. Buffy is of course right they always try to protect the power, they must return to the vineyard, there is a reason for Caleb wanting to defend it. This episode is all about the meeting in Buffy's house this is so difficult to watch with Dawn striking the final blow, after Buffy laid down her very life to save her. We know there is only one who will stand by Buffy, even though he is not at the meeting he has read the scripture 'it is not for thee, it is for her alone to wield'.
SMG was prone to a lot of cold and throat issues back then. She said it was probably because she was on planes constantly.
I think Wood was trying to just understand Faith in his scene with her.
I have more perspective on the Buffy ousting scene. I feel like she didn't give them enough reason to go back in...HOWEVER, I'm still PISSED off every time I see the scene. It wasn't fair and Buffy should have thrown THEIR asses out. I think it was completely out of character. I've decided that Giles is actually The First. That's not true, but that helps me manage his character this season.
Dont worry, this time you didnt see it coming cause it the worst written scene of the whole show. The way that fight goes makes no sense at all
this episode pisses me off!!!
At the end of the day, it was just a poorly written episode and plotline which some fans get hyper-sensitive about.