THAT'S HIS TRIGGER?? - Buffy the Vampire Slayer Reaction - 7x17 - Lies My Parents Told Me
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- Full and early reactions on patreon: / thelexicrowd
The newest video in my editor reacts to series. This week I'm watching and reacting to Buffy the Vampire Slayer for the first time.
Robin Wood seeks revenge on Spike for killing his mother nearly 30 years ago, whilst everyone else tries to find out how The First has control over him.
Follow me:
Patreon: / thelexicrowd
Twitch: / thelexicrowd
Twitter: / thelexicrowd
Instagram: / thelexicrowd
business email: thelexicrowd@gmail.com
A young woman, destined to slay vampires, demons and other infernal creatures, deals with her life fighting evil, with the help of her friends.
Buffy the Vampire Slayer is an American supernatural drama television series based on the 1992 film of the same name. It was created by Joss Whedon under his production tag, Mutant Enemy Productions, with later co-executive producers being Jane Espenson, David Fury, David Greenwalt, Doug Petrie, Marti Noxon, and David Solomon.
The series narrative follows Buffy Summers (played by Sarah Michelle Gellar), the latest in a line of young women known as "Vampire Slayers", or simply "Slayers". In the story, Slayers, or the "Chosen Ones", are chosen by fate to battle against vampires, demons and other forces of darkness. Buffy wants to live a normal life, but as the series progresses, she learns to embrace her destiny. Like previous Slayers, Buffy is aided by a Watcher, who guides, teaches and trains her. Unlike her predecessors, Buffy surrounds herself with a circle of loyal friends who become known as the "Scooby Gang" - a reference to the animated franchise Scooby-Doo that features a group of friends solving mysteries together.
copyright disclaimer under section 107 of the copyright act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
#buffy #reaction - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
This episode is telling why Spike gets on with Joyce so well.
Maybe why he had a somewhat better relationship with Tara than the others as well. She has a slightly similar demeanor.
I think also that she was never derogatory to him. @@PoseurGoth
I really love how ensouled Spike was so inspired by Buffy believing in him that he could suppress his guilt and be objective about his past and how he shouldn't be held responsible for being a shark that eats fish. It really differentiates him from Angel's extremely Catholic, myopic point of view. Angel seeks endless servitude to feel good about helping people, and Spike just wants to go forward and fight for what he cares about.
Except he was trying to get his chip out, and got tricked.
@@ezequielocampo3597 Hello, person who only saw the show once and barely remembers what happened.
@@ezequielocampo3597Nope, that was a purposeful misdirect by the writers (and that’s been documented). Spike always wanted his soul from the shaman. Why else would he go to a shaman on the other side of the world? To get his chip out he would just have to find a competent surgeon.
I think you forgot when Angel had the epiphany in S2, realizing that he should be doing good just cuz
@@ethanf6136Of course not, and yet he remains eternally, endlessly broody and contrite. He even resents Spike for "spending two weeks in a basement" when he spent a hundred years being a miserable rat-sucking sop.
One of the best episodes of the season, it also does a good job of showing why Spike had such respect and admiration for Joyce too, it’s rooted in his love for his own mum
Spikes mum human Vs vampire form is always a good example of how been turned can change someone. While their personality will remain the same somewhat, you can see how the lack of a conscience really makes a difference
That's why he didn't kill Joyce in "School Hard".
conscience*
Yes, “turned”
A corruption.
Not a possession.
@@sirmoonslosthismind My bad, autocorrect wasn’t giving me the option and I often forget how to spell it
This really makes me think about the personality that the demon brings in when a human is turned. I don't think they are all the same, we know "Spike" was full of human emotion, to the point he still loved his mum, but his mother's demon was just- nasty! IMO it really becomes a blend of the human AND the ndemon personality, with the later greatly affecting how the new entity interprets the personality of the human host.
"The mission is what matters" must hurt Robin so much when Buffy said it.
Also everybody acts like a soul would stop Spike from killing. Humans have souls and always kill each other. The soul might make it harder to kill and live with guilt but it sure doesnt make it impossible.
right. Spike is still Spike; he's still a vampire. If he has to kill Wood to keep from getting staked, he's not going to hesitate. And Angel, even with a soul, has killed some humans.
Remembering Dark Angel. With a soul he still left humans to be slaughtered by Dru and Darla. Spike though he has a soul, still had that dark side that Angel only embraced for a little while.
Not really everybody, just Buffy. I’m agree with Giles on the fact that Buffy is blind by her connections with him
@guilainefeutchine886 Itself 2 things: first, Buffy is am altruistic, and she believes that being right leads to success. Buffy does believe it the slayer shouldn't be killing souled creatures. It's outside of her purpose, and doing so is a slippery slope.
Often kill each other, I'd say. Much too often.
I like that Spike gets ruthless with the facts defending himself from soulless Spike's actions. Something that no one but Buffy ever does, yet everyone does for Angel/Angelus.
In regards to who because the Scoobies do not defend Angel/Angelus.
People don’t defend Angel/Angelus. Buffy literally had to hide Angel from the Scoobies and when they had the intervention, they were on her ass, saying that she’s harboring a vicious killer
The Angel scoobies do, and everyone's pretty used to treating him as a different person.
@@ethanf6136 They did eventually become OK with Angel. Giles never conspired to kill Angel like he did with Spike.
Giles forgot the one basic lesson for any teacher. There will come a time when your student surpasses you. Buffy had outgrown her need for him a while ago, he just needed to be reminded of it.
He has tried to leave Buffy multiple times before. Her daddy issues just keep him around.
@jp3813 he stayed because buffy wanted him to be her watcher again. He came back in 6 because he found out she was alive. He came back again because Willow went crazy. He came back again, because he had all these potentials he needed Buffy to keep safe? So what are you talking about lol
@@paulinerobertson6836 Coming back and staying are two different things. You said it yourself, Buffy wanted him to be her watcher again. When she was revived, even Giles recognized that she wanted him to take care of everything for her. So he left and only came back to solve the Willow problem that the slayer can't. The potentials is a new reason, which is still critical info that she needed to know. As I said, he has tried to leave her multiple times. It's her that keeps on wanting him to stay. So to talk as if he forgot that a student must surpass the teacher is just silly. That's been his goal since the beginning.
@jp3813 Yeah, she wanted him to take care of things because she needed an older adult to help and that happens to be Giles. It doesn't mean she has daddy issues. Buffy had been struggling since her mum died and also coming back from heaven. God forbid she struggles a little at what? 21?22? Again, it doesn't mean she has daddy issues,it just means she has issues and needed help.
@@paulinerobertson6836 Giles clearly didn't see it that way. Hence, he left.
Dru was an anomaly because she was supernatural before being turned.
Her bloodline comes from the Master who was a powerful and ancient vampire.
Dru's demon had access to her powers and used them to the fullest.
When she bumped into Spike she felt his special power and knew he was the one.
William was an empath. It magnified with his demon.
He was a pro with his intuition and used it to manipulate and tear down the Scoobies a few times.
When a vamp is made, remnants of who the person was is already engrained in their brain tissue like dna.
So, William was a gentle human with romanticism ideals. So, his demon was the same until he changed.
Can't get into that because it gets into spoilery territory.
Now Liam was a spoiled, entitled, carefree deviant that indulged in chaos.
When Darla changed him, his demon turned that up to 10.
Of course the biggest difference between them is that Angel was cursed with the return of his soul.
Even without his soul, Spike went to fight to get his back...mostly because the chip muzzled his demon and the echoes of who William was resurfaced from his memory.
He's always known how to love. He definitely loved Dru but because of the twisted nature of her mental condition (thanks to Angelus) her torturing and mind games she learned from Angelus and Darla..she taught that to Spike.
When Spike and Buffy were sleeping around together, she would run hot and cold on him. Maybe in his mind everytime she said "No" it was another cat and mouse game. Maybe his demon didn't like "No" or something...but the chip couldn't help him stay in line in that scenerioin the bathroom with Buffy.
The William in him would never hurt her like that and so he thought getting his soul back would control his demon...he was right.
Only now he has to atone and learn how to be a hybrid of the two.
Angel's demon is like a split personality. He has to keep him locked up in a special corner of his mind where only he gets to take control of the body and can access the demon's supernatural abilities.
Everything, *everythting* Spike ever did in ths series hits a little different after understanding this bit of his past.
That moment that Buffy drops the bomb about the mission being more important really mirrored her "you're beneath me" moment with Spike. Now Spike knows himself more fully and has freedom, and Wood is about to take a certain space in the line.
Just having a soul doesn't stop a person from killing people. Spike CAN still kill people. Having a soul means he has an actual choice on whether to do it, actual inhibitions that prevent him from just randomly killing people over a cookie and an actual conscience to regret killing someone, but he can still kill people. Its why his words to Buffy here hold weight. IF Wood keeps trying, Spike is willing to put killing him on his own guilty conscience. It's how Buffy knows that its NOT an idle threat. Just like how Giles and Buffy's talk about Dawn informs us that her telling Wood she would let Spike kill him is also not an idle threat. And also retroactively tells a lot about the possible alternatives in Andrew episode before this.
Ironically that also means Buffy's argumentation about Spike is also wrong - the soul argument is just a convenient way to justify Spike being there in a way. However, while her arguments are wrong, she is not wrong about him - Spike is worth redemption not simply because he has a soul, but because he chose to get it. And because he consciously and repeatedly chose to be the better person, just like this episode with sparing Wood.
Its such a messy situation because Giles, Spike, Wood AND Buffy all had parts of motivations and decisions that were right and parts that were very wrong. Some walked out of this a better person, some a stronger leader and some paid the price.
I like Spike's poetry.
I always thought Buffy was just posturing when she said she would sacrifice Dawn now. She was playing the part of general to appease Giles but if it really came down to it she would make the same decision, that's why the episode ends with her checking on Dawn and shutting Giles out. But I guess it also could be that she felt some guilt about admitting she'd let her die. Very interesting conflicts in this episode!
"she would make the same decision" Of sacrificing herself, yes. But before she came to that decision with the conclusion of how she could sacrifice herself instead, they were talking about the concept of letting Dawn die to save the world, with no idea of making the sacrifice herself. More along the lines of how she was able to let Angel die to save the world.
Aw, do you know what, I just got the episode title, maybe I'm stupid lol. It's not just about Spike and his mom or Robin and his mom, it's about Giles lying to Buffy too :( It's not "Lies My Mother Told Me", it's "Parents"
Very interesting to see how different Angel and Spike were when they started out as vampires. Angel immediately wanted to take revenge on his father and once he got the taste for it, killed the rest of his family too. Spike just wanted to make his mother's life better because he still loved her. Showing how the demon uses the mind of the person they possess as a template for their new personality. Some vampires (like Angel) have a lot more passion and drive for destruction and some just want to sit around eating popcorn ( ie "Crush")
But the thing is that Angel and Spike’s relationship with their parents are completely different. Angel had an abusive father and Spike got a loving mother. Their upbringing led them to what they become as vampires
But the thing is that Angel and Spike’s relationship with their parents are completely different. Angel had an abusive father and Spike got a loving mother. Their upbringing led them to what they become as vampires
@@ethanf6136 yep, pretty much my point. Vampires don't automatically become indiscriminate killers when they are turned. Their past selves (as it were) play a part in how they feel and act as a vampire.
Template? The mind is still there, they lose their soul.
@@alicequinn505 The person dies and the demon takes over. It's clearly stated in the show.
Love this episode (and your reaction, as always). And yes, Buffy and Giles are a wonderful father/daughter duo... but this *is* the "Lies My Parents Told Me" episode, so it kind of makes sense for there to be friction.
I'm guessing Giles's manipulation "for the greater good" (without giving her a vote in what the greater good even is, despite being the freaking Slayer) was uncomfortably reminiscent of the Council. That's not an easy memory to shake off.
Speaking of friction... I know you've already seen Empty Places at this point, and now I'm equal parts worried/curious about how you took that. Guess I'll see in a few weeks!
Spike has a soul. But Wood, in his quest of vengeance, tried to destroy that soul. Spike isn't angry that Wood wanted to kill him. He's angry that Wood tried to undo his soul.
HAVING A SOUL DOESN'T MAKE YOU GOOD PERSON.
Spike, though unusual, isn't unique in wanting to bring family over to be vampires. Alana wanted to bring Gunn in his first episode.
On the whole “but he has a soul” thing, he tried to kill him so it’s entirely understandable. That wouldn’t stop any other regular human from wanting to do that, it’s basically the same thing. Angel has done similar things with a soul as well.
I understood Wood's anger 100% but doing what he does in reqruiting Giles to help him get vengeance isn't going to solve their problem. It's going to give the first what it wants: in-fighting and one less soldier against it.
Giles has already chastised the group for the war not being "a joke" and to take things seriously back in _First Date._ Giles going behind Buffy's and lying about his motives isn't taking things seriously. It's showing his real issue of thinking Buffy "no longer needs him." He's actually the one having trouble letting go. I talk about being glad this isn't the _Game of Thrones_ universe often in this episode. Buffy would have the legal right to behead both Giles and Wood without legal repercussions if it were. I enjoy it a little when Buffy closes the door on Giles at the end of this episode, specifically because he has told Buffy "[she] needs to learn..." and "I've told you all you need to know" in _Tabula Rasa_ and this episode. One phrase contradicts the other, which I think is the reasons why Buffy says, "I think you've taught me everything I need to know" before closing the door on him.
Giles being right or not isn't the point. Of course Spike was dangerous. So was Willow in the last three episodes of season six. The point is it clearly isn't a last resort to kill Spike if he could be de-triggered. Wood, unintentionally allowed Spike to deal with the issues causing the trigger. I think the same result could have happened if Spike and Buffy talked alone after the prokaryote stone came out. Giles interrogating him wasn't going to make Spike cooperative. He knows Giles hates him. How Giles chose to approach the situation and contradict himself showed his issues of having trouble letting Buffy go more than it showed killing Spike was necessary. His real issue is that Buffy "no longer needs him." This makes him hold tighter and thus try to take control when not liking her choices after telling her she is the general of the group. Therefore, he's the one having trouble letting go.
Buffy is acting as she is because Giles is in her face about not doing things as he would. Her authority is being challenged, after he said she was general against her wishes. I don't blame the way she treats either Giles or Wood. As she said to Wood "The mission is what matters." This isn't showing Buffy cares for Spike too much to not be able to kill him. It's showing that neither Giles or Wood is looking at the whole board. Buffy has shown she can and will do what's necessary to save the world. Just as she unknowingly proved to Xander when he didn't blieve she could kill Angel, she is now showing to Giles about Spike. Except now she doesn't have to go through an arc of preparation like she did with Angel. She's grown up and Giles doesn't see it or doesn't want to believe it because then she won't need him. At least that is how he's seeing it.
Wood also doesn't consider that if The First is pushing an idea at him, he should question it. And no one else knows this is how Wood learned what Spike did. Questioning why The First wants Wood to kill someone it's controlling, could have solved so much. In-fighting is The First's best tool against the Slayer, Scoobies, and SIT's. And Buffy is the only one trying to stay on point. Giles was on point in _First Date_ which is a lesson Buffy took to heart. Now he seems to be contradicting his words because of his issue of Buffy being a grown up and his dislike for Spike, which allowed Wood to convince him to start something that clearly caused in-fighting The First wants. Thus, as stated, The First gets something it wants either way.
Every time someone goes against Buffy with a slayer related problem, I feel it's a broken record at this point Buffy has to stop and explain before getting back to the point at hand: in this case, defeating The First is the point and all other characters are off track.
Ok I have a question then. How do you feel about Giles killing Ben? Because that was going behind Buffy's back. As much as Buffy thinks she is Buffy is not the end all be all. Something that people often forget is that way back in season 2 Buffy had a chance to kill Angelus not long after he returned. Something that would have saved a lot of people most importantly Miss Calenders life. Buffy makes mistakes and often those mistakes are because she lets her emotions get the better of her. Giles' entire point was that Spike is dangerous and liability he mean to be but them's the breaks and Buffy has to be willing to make hard choices in order to win.
@@MrSupertallblackman Killing Ben was the last resort. Spike wasn't. Buffy didn't stop Glory, just beat her back into Ben. Giles stopped her the only way she could be (unless she joined the good guys team and that would've been OOC).
And I lightly touched on that Angelus moment in the OG comment. "Just as she unknowingly proved to Xander when he didn't blieve she could kill Angel, she is now showing to Giles about Spike. Except now she doesn't have to go through an arc of preparation like she did with Angel." I should have phrased it better, but the concept is Xander didn't believe she'd kill him, so he lied and said, "Willow said kick his ass."
This is how I look at the full theory, though:
1. In _Innocence_ Buffy tells Angelus "Give me time." I agree that Buffy isn't ready, but she also states she will be eventually. She not gonna Bella Swan over Angel.
2. In _Phases,_ dealing with Oz's werewolf issue allows her to start the "time." She is no where near ready yet as Angelus "sends his love" with a vampire in the form of a classmate and Buffy freezes. So I agree that she's not ready yet, but Oz has taken her mind off any potential wallowing and crying uncontrollablly she was doing in the previous episode.
3. In _Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered,_ Xander's issues allow Buffy a break from any Angelus' Valentine's Day plans. Buffy also starts to read up on Angelus' past. She's not ready yet, but she's moved a step closer.
4. In _Passion,_ Xander says he deserves something for telling his friends he told them so before Angelus showed up. This shows Xander using Angelus as an excuse for his Angel jealousy and in claiming he is correct about Angel being at fault for Angelus' actions. This is the first time Buffy has fought Angelus since kicking him in the nuts, and technically she didn't fight him then. She threw him around). He is blinded to the fact that Buffy is willingly going and fighting Angel, and is therefore blinded to her coming another step closer to being able to deal with Angelus because he feels justified in Giles "getting himself killed" being a good thing, not realizing, in anger over Jenny's death (anger that becomes meaningless in _Becoming Part 1_ when he says "Yeah well she's dead), the fact that Giles will die if Buffy isn't ready to confront Angelus herself. So once again, I disagree with Buffy being to blame. Indirectly perhaps, but she getting there. And I feel the indirect blame has more to do with kicking Angelus in the nuts and walking away rather than finding a way to lock him up after he's in pain over being kicked in the nuts, or tranqing him in the next episodes, than it does Jenny actually dying. Also, what was Jenny doing alone in a public building at night? Despite Angelus saying the sign invited him in, he could walk in at any moment during the night. He was toying with her. She should have been doing the restoration stuff during daylight hours and still be alive.
5. In _Killed by Death,_ Buffy is hunting for Angel while sick. So if anything Jenny moved uffy closer to being ready. Doesn't mean Buffy wasn't doing so on her own, but it was still another step closer, and hunting for him while sick shows it, no matter how stupid it was to hunt while sick.
6. In _I Only Have Eyes For You,_ Buffy makes the most important step forward by releasing everything holding her back emotionally, by dealing with her guilt over turning Angel into Angelus. One step closer to being ready.
7. In _Go Fish,_ Buffy takes Angelus on and only doesn't kill him because he throws Gage at her. Buffy is ready and willing before Xander says, "Willow said kick his ass."
8. In _Becoming Part One,_ Xander has issue with Jenny Calendar having come close to restoring Angel's soul and everyone (not just Buffy) deciding to try re-ensoulment before attempting to kill Angelus, and he shows his opinion negatively (as opposed to Kendra who expresses the exact same opinion healthily). He had listened to Buffy say she was "done waiting" and therefore reacts badly to their safer idea (Jenny Calendar died, as so many people want to say. Why risk things by nearly getting killed taking him on if a soul restoration spell is now right there to use) over trying restoration of his soul.
9. In _Becoming Part 2,_ Buffy is ready and all the pieces are in place. She isn't aware the spell is being recast after it was interrupted due to Xander distrusting what she has proved she will do (and as stated in the OG comment doesn't need an arc if it came to putting Spike down.
At this point. because of her experiences, and the fact that she's older and grown up, she would kill Spike in _Lies My Parents Told Me_ without hesitance if it was a last resort. But as stated, it isn't. I don't think Glory or Angelus are as similar as you want to think. At least not in my opinion.
@@Buffy8Fan A last resort that Giles choose first it's not like Giles went back and forth on weighing the pros and cons (at least not that we saw) he just did it. He saw an opportunity and he took it just like with Spike. Giles didn't know Spike's trigger could be reversed just like he didn't know if something could be done to help Ben. The point being that Giles makes choices that are cruel and cold because sometimes that's what needs to be done.
Regardless of whether or not you THINK the situations are similar they are. Buffy made choices, choices that had the consequence of people dying. Now you could also argue that because of those choices we got Angel returned as champion and that's a net positive and I would disagree but that doesn't take away from the point. Buffy ISN'T ALWAYS RIGHT. Neither is Giles I'm not saying his in this situation or other but just killing like Ben going behind Buffy's back if she's making a foolish decision isn't wrong and may in fact be the right decision.
@@MrSupertallblackman It's your opinion that you believe they are similar sitations just as it's mine that I don't believe they are.
Buffy knew she didn't kill Glory. Not showing her finding out what Giles did doesn't mean she didn't ask or find out and let it go because she knew it was a last resort. Glory wasn't going to give up even if the key couldn't be used anymore. She's crazy and would want revenge over Buffy and team preventing her from "going home."
I do believe Giles weighed the pros and cons. He told Ben he knew Buffy couldn't kill that way, so he weighed the con of her her not being able to before the battle when she said she _would_ let the world go to hell if the portal opened. As well as who knows how many other desicions. Every character was doing that. It'd be odd not to.
The Scoobies were told "The Beast's" only weakness was a human she inhabited, so they knew killing said human was the only option to kill Glory and a last resort by the time Giles was kneeling over Ben. "Sometimes that's what needs to be done" is the ultimate point to what last resort means. And yes it was cruel to Ben, but also the last resort. Ben also recently showed cruelty in order to survive: towards Dawn, by giving her back to Glory.
When it comes to killing Glory I also never said Giles didn't go behind Buffy's back. It's in character. Another reason why I get so frustrated in _Lies My Parents Told Me._ I said killing Ben was the last resort. It's why this and Spike aren't similar to me. One was necessary and one wasn't. Whether Buffy knew about either of them or not. I personally believe she eventually learned about Ben. It's like Angelus tells Gunn about Gunn killing Fred's former professor, "Even Angel's not that stupid." Same goes for Buffy. There were too many questions to not wonder why Glory was taking revenge. Buffy been down that road before of not asking questions and learned from it: at the beginning of S3 due to Xander's lie at the end of S2. It's another reason why I dislike said lie. It causes more of a divide between Willow and Buffy in _Dead Man's Party_ than there would have been if Buffy had left without Xander lying. In that situation she didn't ask questions and a full blow argument happened. She only recently found out Xander lied about that.
I never said Angel returning was a point or positive. I said it was restoring his soul was the safter option to confronting Angelus in a fight.
I don't think Buffy is always right either. Don't even get me started on her going to "see Angel" aka get vengeance on Faith in S1 of AtS or stabbing Faith when Angel needed Faith blood for a cure.
so excited, the next several eps are insane. were in the home stretch now
oh i love spike and support every decision he made this episode
Also, RIP Buffy\Giles relationship. If I were Buffy, I'd never forgive Giles for going behind my back like this. It was very low of him.
The second time. He already drugged her multiple times in season 3 and she forgave him.
@@x-man9473 Yeah, because it was the first time she actually acknowledged that he has a father's love for her. And she was very vulnerable back then. This time, it feels worse because they've learned to trust each other unconditionally over the years, to count on each other, and Giles literally became the only parent figure in Buffy's life.
@@alexie5201 I'm saying that she should have cut him off after the drugging incident. She definitely should have cut him off after he left her, knowing that she just came back from heaven and was suffering from the trauma of it. Add this going behind her back incident and it's questionable why the dynamic lasted this long
@@x-man9473 Giles is not perfect, it's true. However, it's not that easy to cut off the only person who's supposed to guide you and be the much needed parent figure in your life, especially when you're still very young.
Giles sucks here.
He says that he wants her to be the general and make the hard decisions but undermines her and counteracts her wishes.
If he wants her to be the general then she makes the decisions (with advice) and he lives with it. He can’t pick and chose
This is one of my favorite episodes of the season, and I was WAITING for you to get to it. ❤
It's actually kind of interesting seeing an older Slayer who had a family to take care of. It hasn't come up in the show, if there are Slayers who were able to live long enough to have kids or get married etc.
And yet, still not the most stupid or crazy decision from a Watcher involving a vampire with a soul around this time in the Buffyverse.
LOL!
tbh I think it make sense Buffy willing to sacrifice her loved ones now after the fact that she experienced death and ended up in this heaven place where she in an eternal peace. She might actually believe that if it comes down to it sacrificing her loved ones is just sending them to that place early.
Lexi, I love that you recalled “lie to me” at the beginning of your reaction. Who are the good guys and who are the bad guys in this scenario? It’s getting harder and harder to tell, isn’t it?
I consider Lie to Me the thesis of the show.
So one interpretation I've heard of the scene with William & his mother is that his mum was such a devout & decent person that she was actually horrified to be a vampire & she said all those things to get Spike to kill her. There is some small precedent for this as (if you haven't finished Angel S5, stop reading) after the last ep of Angel the story continued in a comic series called "After the Fall". Tl/dr, Angel is somehow human, Wesley is dead but haunting the Wolfram & Hart offices, Ilyria is the warlord of Beverley Hills, Spike is her pet & Gunn is a vampire. It's that last one that we want to focus on because Gunn is like, legit bummed to be a vamp. He is super depressed & self-hating. Now the canonicity of ATF is defo questionable but the principle would stand, it is theoretically possible for a vamp to be depressed that they're a vamp, if the right kind of person gets turned.
I am trying SO HARD to not hyper fixate on Good Omens... And then this episode has a watcher named Crowley and your outro music sings about falling out of heaven. I'm not reaching here, Good Omens is everywhere to me right now. 😂
Spike's mum is played by veteran character actress Caroline Lagerfelt ("Nash Bridges", "Gossip Girl").
Such an incredible episode! Flashback episodes in Buffy are on another level for me, and this one is not an exception.
I felt so bad for Robin in this one. He's a good guy who had to spend his childhood without his mother, which is tough enough. And now, as an adult, he finally realizes that he wasn't even as important to his mom as she was to him. Heartbreaking.
That realization echoes you-know-who with his relationship with his feminist mother.
Woods was a idiot thinking he could take spike
I watched this episode and reactions to it several times over the past year. It only just occurred to me how triggering this must’ve been for Buffy. Her watcher manipulated her and somebody she deeply cares about almost died. Again.
Spoilers for the rest of the season:
I can only imagine how much of an impact this has on her relationship with Giles, as well as the rest of the gang, moving forward, especially into 7:18/19.
god forbid he wanted the demon that sexually assaulted her and coerced her into public sex to die. Hes always been more a liability than an asset.
Spike didn’t have a soul back then. OH MY GOD , if you judge Spike without a soul, judge Angel for his actions as Angelus. And like Buffy said, she need Spike, emotionnelly speaking. @@theprodigal
@@guilainefeutchine886 No because Spike spent 2 years of continual growth and learning empathy and right from wrong. To blame it all on being soulless is forgetting 2 years of clear character development just so you can tell yourself its ok that Buffy spent half of season 7 chasing after her abuser, regardless of the soul it was still spikes face body and touch that assaulted her and we're meant to react like she's ok with that. I'm actually surprised after everything that came out that Joss managed to manipulate the majority of the 'feminist' audience into idolising Buffys assaulter, more than the title character herself.
@@theprodigal They dont touch each other romantically until the last episode. + vampires can't learn growth. They are forever id. Spike had empathy but he's still a demon .
I have to agree that the library should have books as well as computers.
Watching spike destroy woods is so satisfying no matter how many times I see it
I have to remind you of Warren and Andrew. Both had/has a soul and STILL killed. And Robin was going to not only kill Spike, but torture him first by slowly beating him to death, and he has a soul. At least Spike killing Robin would have been self-defense.
I think your interpretation of the Buffy/Giles disagreement. They're disagreeing on how to lead. plus, he went away because he wanted her to grow upand when she does but she's not doing what he thinks is the right way he drags his heels and won't let go. This episode was showing that Buffy knows she's got the skills she needs to make the right decisions, it's now Giles who has to see it.
love that we have another spike centric episode :) :)
I hate how they nerfed Giles for some lame forced conflict. We need Season 1-5 Giles back!
This made sense for the season. Giles was still trying to father Buffy and we needed to see Buffy let that go in order to become the full leader she needed to be.
Giles was right. Something had to be done to break the First's control over Spike which Buffy had a big blind spot about for some reason. Merely having a soul or being in love is not enough.
Remember when Spike said he had to claw his way out of his own grave? If he was buried, wouldn't it have been his mother who arranged his funeral? Or did Dru bury him? I don't understand that, because he's wearing the same clothes Dru killed him in and he has no visible marks from digging himself out and his clothes aren't muddy. Always wondered about that.
dru always buries her children. she did the same when she returned darla in angel.
I think vampires can just shake themselves clean like kitties that get wet. Claw out of grave, shake, shake, shake, clean!
@@artemiswallace8716 Thanks, I didn't know that. Was there a reason she gave? I'm assuming vampires don't actually need to be buried to come back seeing as other people came back as vampires without being buried, on Buffy. Just curious about her reasoning for burying them!
@@deirdrestatham5730 Now I'm imagining Spike doing that 😂
@@peaceisnature I don't remember the exact dialogue but it was mentioned Dru was old school or into the classic traditions. I think it's traditional as people tended to be buried quickly historically because they didn't have embalming or cold storage so you wanted to get a dead person in the ground A S A P or it got stinky.
Great episode although i am disappointed about Giles writting this season
I agree. IMO the writing at times was the weak link this season and the writing of Giles was the weakest. And don’t get me started on the idiotic “is Giles dead and the First” mini storyline. That’s the kind of cheap concept they would never have allowed in earlier seasons. It is IMPOSSIBLE that some of the characters would not have hugged Giles when he returned and known he was corporeal. I get there was chaos when he very first arrived, but later that day Buffy or especially Dawn would have hugged him when saying goodnight and told him how glad they were he was there and safe. It’s impossible that he didn’t eat with ANYONE during those intervening days? No one saw him handle food or drink? It’s so stupid and they would have had smarter writing in prior seasons. They would have had to truly earn the storyline or they wouldn’t have done it. I think at this point they were just exhausted and allowed things in they would have fought against earlier if they couldn’t totally justify them.
Love how the next Angel opens with all the cast in the hotel just talking about how nice it was to see Willow again and how glad they are she restored Angel's soul before she left. And then the discussion turns to who do we think was controlling the beast.
Top 10 Buffy episode in the last handful of episodes? Probably
So many great moments. Got to see badass Robin and Spike turning the tables. Always a highlight rewatching this episode in the home stretch
To wash out the taste of Conner/cordy here's spike fun...
Buffyverse strikes again! Lexi was desperate for Giles to come back because she'd been missing him. Giles has an important role in this episode, but by the end Lexi is disappointed that going behind Buffy's back that way may have badly damaged his relationship with Buffy.
A couple of things about this episode. It builds on my theory that Spike was always different to other vampires- after he was sired, he was still "himself." It's almost as if a bit of his soul stayed behind after he was turned.
Also, this is another "Buffy was right" moment, as we know Spike plays a pivotal role in the finale.
You don't need to be soulless to kill someone. We've been doing it for millennia.
The fact that Spike proceeds to wear the coat of his dead mother even after finding out the truth rubs me the wrong way. At the very least he could’ve left it with him but he continues to wear like a trophy really doesn’t help his case on how he’s better now
spike just reclaimed the coat two episodes earlier, for buffy, to be who buffy needs him to be. wood is simply a lower priority. unlike angel, spike doesn't make everything about himself. he makes it about buffy.
@@sirmoonslosthismindYeah but he doesn’t actually need the coat to do that. He was beating into woods and being pretty ruthless without it. And when he loses it he barely even cares which means He wears it because it’s a trophy to him he says it himself and to also taunt Woods. I don’t know why you bring up Angel because I didn’t mention him but yeah your right. Angel didn’t choose to get his soul back like Spike Did, But unlike Spike Angel doesn’t give himself a pass he takes responsibility for the wrong he’s did even if he didn’t have control. Angel seems redemption for himself Spike only changed just for Buffy which isn’t really atoning that’s just changing yourself just to make someone you love happy. Which to me is less meaningful
Nikki had that coat for a couple of years at most. Spike had it for decades. It has been his coat for a long time.
@@jojogarlin8369 Having a soul doesn't make you a good person. Angel has his way of dealing and reconciling his past and Spike has his way. Spike doesn't feel all that responsible (or at least not as responsible as Angel does) for his actions and there's a lot of reasons for that.
@@MarkusR144 He's had the coat on for a long time because he killed her and took it from her corpse. That reasoning means nothing an doesn't take away from what I said. Spike couldve left the coat behind showing that's he's grown and moved on but proceeds to wear it like a trophy, he barely cares when he loses it. So it's obviously not even that important to him
17:10 "Strength, resilience ... those are all words for hardness. I'm starting to feel like ... being the Slayer is turning me into stone."
This season is where it finally happens, Buffy is turning into stone and losing her compassion.
Yes but in this season, it’s feels like the only one for who she show compassion and emotions ( that’s one of the reasons why he could reach to her by the end) .
Hello 👋🏻. Imagine watching the shows live, the events of this episode take place before Angel 4x15 with Willow getting the call to go to LA. But, this episode aired after.
This is how I look at the scenario. Both sides have a point.
Buffy was being too casual, downplaying the threat Spike posed under the First's control. Of course, Robin and Giles definitely don't come out of this looking good. Robin conveniently leaves out the fact that the First is the one who told him Spike killed Nikki, and doesn't seem to care that he's playing right into its hands. And considering Spike WAS able to break free of the trigger and come to terms with it, Giles jumped the gun and undermined Buffy's authority for nothing.
Such a great episode!
what a great episode to toy with your emotions. it really had everything in one episode. almost a compilation of by then a long running series lore and history a reward to all the fans. however Gillies needed to be shut down if Buffy is the General in his eyes then he needs to fall in line, sad but necessary until this current threat is eliminated.
another reaction that is so spot on I loved it,
When I first watched this episode, I had just been reading Anne Rice’s Vampire Chronicles series, and I thought “Hey, this story is a ripoff of Lestat’s backstory.”
Willow is going to be on angel I hope angel is next
Having just read The Vampire Lestat, they obviously were very influenced by Lestat’s backstory with his mom for Spike. Although Lestat’s mom wasn’t nearly as cruel, she did leave/distance from him because even as a vampire he’s lowkey a softboy
You have to hand it to season seven. They either destroyed or turned meaningless every single relationship Buffy had except for Spuffy. All glory to Spuffy. Even after all these years, it's still frustrating to watch.
Blame season 6 for that. The show should have ended after season 5. Season 6 destroyed every relationship Buffy had-they killed Spuffy the hardest.
This led to heavy backlash from audiences, critics, and their own actors who no longer wanted to be on the show. So season 7 is nothing more than an apology tour to fans for destroying the Spuffy romance.
@@x-man9473 an apology for destroying Spuffy? Jesus, shippers are nuts.
The writers actually did a good job severing the relationships on season 6. And the first third of season 7 does a good job bringing everyone back together. It's afterwards that it all goes downhill. Season 7 only has itself to blame. Season 6 is good.
@@antoniolamounier Die hard Buffy fans are delusional.
Season 6 was so terrible that their leading actress SMG wanted out of the show afterwards. Trying to sit here and pretend like season 6 was some well written season takes extreme levels of denial.
No. Having Buffy become physically abusive and having Spike ignore her boundaries, and later on attempt to SA her is not "good writing". You need to take a writing class so you have a better understanding of what good writing is. Lol
@@x-man9473 chill, dude. Just chill. Have you taken writing classes? Buffy's depression arc is very good, it's one of the best portrayals of depression there is in TV. Season 6 has its flaws (I'm not denying them), but it's a necessary season.
So are you just upset that the relationships that you personally liked didn't end up together because that's kind of petty.
Spike's mom is best contrasted with Harmony. There was not one bit of selfishness in her love for Spike. But without a soul that leaves nothing.
Harmony has a selfish desire to be liked. That makes her an arguably better person as an evil vampire than she was as a human.
A great episode of Buffy! One of my favourites of the season.
I see some reactors who act completely negative toward Wood which I think is unjust. If it was your Mum murdered you would do the same thing and want revenge. So I can sympathise with Wood on that level.
But yes he is looking for revenge on a man who no longer exists. I really didn’t like Giles in this episode or this season. I think he really undermines Buffy in this series really up until the end. But I still like his character but some things for me felt a little out of character from him. Just my opinion.
Also very interesting seeing Spike with a soul and Angel with a soul. Spike very much never really looked back at his victims as a demon where Angel was so fixated on them that when he gets a soul he remembers them all and it truly haunts him. Spike though really just goes ‘What happened is what happened, I can’t change that or control that now, all I can do now is be better’ Angel though was really guilt ridden and wants to atone. Spike just wants to now just do better but doesn’t look back to much.
But the scene with Spike and Wood was excellent and yes Spike was quite forward with his views and didn’t beat around the bush with his views on Nikki prioritising the job over her son. It’s a harsh truth but in the end the mission is what matters. The job of being The Slayer.
i'm with you. i can't hold anything against wood, but giles... giles can fuck right off with this shit.
I was suprised giles went along with killing spike but robin is the kid of a dead slayer that spike killed so it hits very personally , and spike is unable to be controlled and hes killing innocent people again , but lets be real all robin did was give giles an excuse to do something he already wanted
Because just like Angel Spike can be a liability. It's true it's not their fault they're the way they are but they're dangerous.
Lies My Parents Told Me is one of the best episodes from any Season of the show. Brilliant start in NYC back in 1977 with Spike and Wood's mother fighting it out in Central Park. Once the Prokaroyte Stone is entered into Spikes body Giles believes they will find the Trigger for Spike. Of course this event is traumatic for Spike where we see flashbacks to how he sired his own mother. Wood and Giles conspire to kill Spike but must keep Buffy out of the way, as she would stop this. Once Wood has Spike in his house we see him tooling up to kill Spike. Once again he plays the Trigger song and we are taken back to him and his mother this time very disturbing with incestuous undertones, as the Demon is within his mother is unleashed. Spike confronts Wood about his own mother, who Spike claims didn't love him enough as she was a Slayer and that was her priority. When Giles and Buffy have the conversation in the graveyard, we can see Buffy now say if she had to she would kill Dawn to save the World. We can see how Buffy is just focused on The War ahead. When she realises Giles has stalled her she races to Woods house to find Spike outside. Spike spares Woods life, and Buffy has a very powerful conversation with Woods where she tells him straight out that if Spike decides to kill him, she will not stop him. One of the best episodes of S7 by far.
I love how literally all of your comments far and wide across the TH-cam scape are just straight-up synopses, as if none of us have even watched the episode😂
I always wondered if Nikki was called after she gave birth or before. Was she slaying vampires at 9months pregnant?!?
Liked your reaction, did you watch Cruel Intentions yet? Not many more episodes left for me to ask on😅
Oh, Giles earned much worse than having the door slammed in his face.
Wait. I only just realized Nikki said "Crowley's house". Is that a reference to Supernatural? Who's Crowley? Is that her watcher? My dumb ass has only been watching this since it first aired.
Yeah, Crowley was Nikki's watcher.
God I love this episode 😢💔❤ Giles and Wood 😡😡😡👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻
In season 6 they broke Giles' character with him abandoning Buffy to deal with her depression and trauma alone. And this season they double down on it. This is why 7 is my least favorite season.
Gilea and Buffy being the perfect father-daughtwr duo? Yeah, they were. Giles has stopped being that. Giles wasn't a father figure here. He was the perfect watcher. Quentin would be so proud.
Seven years of disagreements which end up being Buffy was right and the others wrong. And they still haven't learned to give her the benefit of the doubt.
ick factor x1000
❤❤❤
Goes needs to get slayers away from Buffy she’s becoming dangerous to and very careless
I know some people are fans of this season and last season. But the show definitely should have ebded after season 5. These last 2 seasons did nothing but destroy the likability of nearly all the characters. If it stopped at season 5, it could have ended on a high note.
I disagree these season just had missteps
@@gjjijji No. They made a giant variety of horrible decisions. And it negatively affected the charactets.
@@x-man9473 the thing is no one seems out of character. It’s their natural progression. I realproblem is the new character, some themes
Heaven forbid the characters not but likeable 100% of the time.
@@MrSupertallblackman Complaining about characters not being likable for an entire season isn't the same as complaining that they're "not being likable all the time". And you're definitely not supposed to make your entire cast of characters unlikable for a whole season.
Another moment I get cucked by Joss. Lost count on how many times this character has dodged death now. These episodes always leave me in a foul mood...