While I agree that owning and driving an EV does require a different skill set and approach than ICE vehicles, most of that is due to experience. ICE vehicles have always been part of our lives. EVs are new. New things require learning. Case in point: my wife. She is bright and technologically capable. But she’s not a nerd, living in the tech weeds. It just does not interest her any more than trying to accomplish a task. She owns (and loves) a 2021 VW ID.4 PRO, which she got in July 2021. (I have a 2021 Model 3 SR+.) She has taken this vehicle on many road trips. These road trips have been anywhere from ~200 miles to 1,500+ miles. Trips to the SF Bay Area, as well as to remote areas of southern Utah and northern Arizona. She’s handled them all with aplomb. Now, we certainly have had to learn about the, umm, unique proclivities and quirks of the VW software (she still has the original version), and that has required a learning curve. But, once those oddities are learned, it’s simply become part of the way the ID.4 works. (Every vehicle I’ve lived with over the past 50 years has had its oddities.) It’s not rocket science, and once you’ve got it, it’s just incorporated into life with an EV. I’d hate someone to hear the warnings that living with an EV is hard, difficult, etc… and decide “Forget it… I’m sticking with the old.” Yes, fact-based and honest information needs to be given. But to make it sound like one needs an engineering degree to live with an EV is kind of a disservice IMHO. But I love these videos! Great content and info! Keep it up, Max and Kyle!
Interesting that Kyle didn’t mention that the Polestar has pre-conditioning the battery. It does. All the user has to do is say, “Google, navigate me to nearest super charger, etc”. It warms the battery and automatically stops when the navigation stops.
I know that if you put household non rechargeable batteries in the fridge it improves their shelf life. With that in mind, what actually happens to the energy you put into an EV when the temperature goes down after? Does the state of charge go down with the temperature then go back up when it warms back up?
A couple of comments related to the ID.4. The car does *some* warming just when you are driving, but it is really enough to improve the driving dynamics (make sure that full acceleration and full braking are possible). In my car, it seems to top out around 50F - that's not enough for optimum DC fast charging. But the act of using a DC fast charger also warms the battery - many people report that the 2nd charge of the day seems to be a lot faster only because the battery is still warmer. I have been told by someone from VW that they intend to add something to the nav so that if you are navigating to a DCFC that it will warm the battery for optimum fast charging experience. But that's not out yet, and as we all know, VW struggles to deploy software to these cars. VW seems to be pushing back on requests to just add a button somewhere that would let people turn it on manually. I should add that there are lots of people that refuse to use the builtin nav, and insist on using Google/Apple/Waze. It won't be obvious to those people that a crummy charging experience is related to their choice of navigation application.
To update this comment: Both automatic and manual battery preconditioning is available in the ID.4 starting with the 2024 model year. And they don't seem to be "crummy" about giving software updates, it's more like they take a while because they test them so extensively, ensuring both forward and backward compatibility. I would rather have that than an update bricking the car because they didn't test a configuration.
For grins I selected a DCFast Charger in my Taycan Navigation enroute to a destination on a planned trip. My battery was 70F from sitting in the garage. On the highway the consumption was 480 Wh/mi where it is usually 360 Wh/mi. The caculated range @ 360 is about 250 miles where @ 480 it's 175 miles. Thats a big loss in range. Fortunately the Taycan Navigation shows arrival battery percent so Navigation can be cancelled if the predicted arrival range gets too low. The battery went up to 91F during the trip to the charger.
I think Ioniq 5 with pre-cond will stop after 20%, so as long as you are within 20% of range you would be good. Yeah, its a bit of working out the numbers.
Good stuff boys, thanks! Taking our first road trip in a '23 M3LR today...and yeah, it's cold and windy here! Looking forward to seeing how she does on the trip. Charged up to 96%-97% this a.m. So ~340 miles est'd range by Tesla...assuming I may get closer to 260? Strong headwinds (40-45mps gusts) + 47F temps (so not too bad). ~280 mile trip...gonna be fun.,
Pro-tip for other Bolt/EUV owners traveling in the cold: If you're planning to take a trip, you should run your battery down at least a bit the day before. The night before you leave, go to a local DC Fast Charger and plug in for >30 minutes. That will activate the battery heater and bring things up to temp. If you're able to park in a garage overnight, do that as well. This isn't a panacea for throttling and obviously won't work if you don't have a DCFC near your house or a garage, but it will help.
Does the Ford E Transit tell you battery temperature and have the feature of preconditioning the battery when selecting a fast charger in its GPS? Do you have any data on the range of E Transits in each configuration at different payloads and outside temperatures or know where I can find that? Thanks.
E-Golf pack is already too hot around 40*C and will reduce amp draw at DCFC. I realize most new EVs have pack active thermal management with cooling/heating fluid (not Leaf) but there are plenty of passively thermally managed (passive conduction / convection of heat) packs in used EVs. All EVs need a battery pack temp gauge like an ICE car water temp gauge.
What is it about EV batteries that they don’t warm up with use? For example, I have a 40V electric lawnmower. When I’m done with that after 45 minutes and the battery is at 2 ~25% SOC (based on the GOM lights), it is warm - very warm. I wouldn’t say it’s from the sun / ambient temp, it’s from use. Can you do a video on battery chemistry 101?
Hey Max and Kyle, another example for battery conditioning that would be similar in ICE vehicles would be a block heater does a similar thing but for different components.
Seems like stating maximum charging rate would be a fairly easy implementation within a car's infotainment. Either during a charging session summary or within a digital user manual. The fact that charging rates can be updated via software means they can also inform the owner/driver via software.
An update: The ID.4 has both automatic and manual battery preconditioning for the 2024 model year. For manual preconditioning, the screen will tell you how long to precondition to get the optimal charging speed, so you don't need to be using VW's nav to take advantage of it.
One thing - do not rely on the salesman telling you that the car will precondition………… he will tell you YES but what he means is that the car will warm/cool the cabin, not the battery. I have a Mini Copper S E - it has “preconditioning” but of the cabin UNLESS it is plugged in to a charger and the battery unit is below 10C then and only then will it warm up the battery, it will not do it while the car is moving. BMW says that for a 28.9kWh battery prewarming the battery before charging isn’t necessary as it’s fastest charging speed is “only” 50kW - great but my local chargers have just gone from free to use to paid for AND with a time limit of 40 minutes with no return within 90 minutes………. So no hope of a deep charge there then.
Great info as always! Hey Max, not to put any more work on you or the team but do you and your boss think it'd be worthwhile to have a column with either the manufacturer or OutofSpec optimal observed 10-80% charge time?
@@iMaxPatten that’d be really cool, thanks! OoS does great charging tests and so if it’s possible to leverage that info into a column to accompany this initial spreadsheet doc, that’d be really cool. Especially since we know mfg and real world optimal charging times can differ pretty significantly.
I think the topic of tires would be good. How they affect the range (especially winter tires) and why electric vehicles require a certain type of tire.
Could someone please correct the charging speed document listed in this description? For the 2018-present Nissan LEAF with a 62 KwH battery, that one will charge to hundred kilowatts, not just fifty. thx HOW TO QUICK CHARGE (IF SO EQUIPPED) Quick charge uses public charging stations (up to 50 kW of power [for 40 kWh battery models] / 100 kW of power [for 62 kWh battery models]) to charge the battery in a short period of time.
Why would an EV being driven on the highway in cold temps channel heat to the battery. That's half of thermal management. Otherwise we'd just call it battery cooling.
Regretfully the worst and most disappointing of cars that don't have preconditioning is the Kia EV6 pre July 2022 builds.. While Hyundai Ioniq 5 vehicles recently got an update, there is no update on the horizon for the Kia EV6. So even with our 800V architecture, we're charging at Chevy Bolt rates, if we're lucky.
EV6 has been able to get a software update since October. At least in Europe. I wouldn’t expect it to be region based, but I don’t know for sure. We need to go to a dealer for the update. I can assure you it works. I drive an EV6 from November 2021. You may want to talk to your Kia dealer or importer if your local Kia is not helping.
@@tomm5936 Kia just released TSBs for the Kia EV6 just in the last couple weeks. Have an appointment for battery preconditioning and electronic brake the updates tomorrow as well as my 8000mi(10000km) checkup. Crossing fingers that it works as well as you made it out to be Though as some have noted, it's not as clean and streamline on preconditioning the battery like Tesla, Rivan Mercedes and Ford to name but a few, who have a seamless battery preconditioning. But even in convoluted form, I'll run with it then charging at 50kW at a 350kW DCFC during 8 months of the year..
Supposedly, the Polestar 2 has battery pre-conditioning, tied to the Google based navigation software. However, I see no evidence this exists. Many Car Reviewers, including Out of Spec, said the Polestar 2 has battery pre-conditioning. I have yet to see any documentation, which confirms this..
Thanks Max. The fastest charging speed I have achieved, in a Polestar 2, this winter has been 130kW; unless I yo-yo’d, on the way to an DC fast charger.
@@stgeorgee Polestar 2 does have precondition thru navigating to a DCFC station in Google Maps in AAOS. You also can also do a precondition by going to climate settings and select the parking tab. At bottom of that page there is a precondition button. Has a max 30 minute preconditioning limit. Since my closes DCFC is only 3 miles away and won't precondition the battery, thru navigating Google Maps, in that short of distance. I precondition thru climate setting for 30 minutes and then drive 5 to 7 minutes to DCFC and I'm able to maximize charging speeds. If you go shorter than 30 minute charge your maximized speed do drop off based on how long you preconditioned.
@@tiredplumber that’s all good, but show me Polestar Documentation, which supports this. As far as I have seen and experienced, “Pre-conditioning”, only affects the cabin, not the battery. Also, when using Google maps to navigate to a DCFC, you should see make charging speed (150 kW). There are any number of ways to verify the existence of a battery pre-conditioning, in a Polestar 2, however, I have observed no examples. If pre-conditioning exists, why doesn’t polestar allow manual pre-conditioning?
@@stgeorgee I also peak around 135 to 140 Kw when using Google Maps charger routing on 150 kW chargers. Up to152 Kw on 350 Kw chargers. Documentation for battery heating is owners manual under climate control/preconditioning where battery heating is discussed. Forgot to mention must be plugged into AC charger for battery heating to work otherwise you are correct, just heating the cabin.
Fast charging speed is the least of our cold weather worries. Battery performance AND energy storage is appreciably better when the battery is at warm or mildly hot temperature. It's not equally efficient nor marginally less efficient when it's zero degrees. The efficiency hit is bad. This is because low and especially very low temps increase internal resistance and cathode conductivity which limits output AND decreases operating efficiency. Extremely cold batteries don't function at all. While it wouldn't make sense to run an inefficient PTC heater to create heat for the battery, necessarily, any modern EV with a reasonable and efficient thermal management system will ensure that warm coolant from the motor/controller is directed to the battery instead of shedding it through a radiator or cooling fins, and initial exothermic heat from battery output is retained in the pack to bring it up to temperature more quickly. Any car with a heat pump can benefit from warming the battery. Cold from the road ambient air is not transferred to a battery, because cold doesn't conduct. Only heat does, and it rises. It is useful to warm the battery in all but the hottest temperatures. If battery heat was an issue, preconditioning it wouldn't raise battery temps far above normal operating temp, which it does try to do. This discussion would have been better if an EV engineer was weighing in on what they've chosen to do on their design in cold temps.
pay attention to what i say . E V'S ARE NOT THE PROBLEM . U heard ME the CAR is just fine . replace the BATTERY with a different power source and ( STOP ) the UTILITY MENTALITY $$$$ and don't beleave the B S that it can't be done .
1000lbs half a ton of potential explosive about to self combust Sounds a bit Conservative when the average ev weighs more than 2 ton heavier then a large van if the battery weighs half a ton how can the rest of the car weigh 1.5 ton
You know the old adage about how do you know who is the vegan in the room? Don't worry they'll tell you. Should be the same for coping EV owners. Why would anyone add this narcissism and stress to their life?
I find it ironic that all the additional technical knowledge needed and stress added to your life with an EV. Is sweet Justice for this fraud. I get there a lot of engineering nerds that buy these cars and love the tinkering, but the bulk of owners are weak beta males and chicks from the suburbs that want something simple but I bought in a major headache
My Honda Civic gets like 600 to 700 KMs from one small tank of fuel. All the heat I want, all the power I want. Never buy an EV and vote government out which want to push the gimmick on us.
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
While I agree that owning and driving an EV does require a different skill set and approach than ICE vehicles, most of that is due to experience. ICE vehicles have always been part of our lives. EVs are new. New things require learning.
Case in point: my wife. She is bright and technologically capable. But she’s not a nerd, living in the tech weeds. It just does not interest her any more than trying to accomplish a task. She owns (and loves) a 2021 VW ID.4 PRO, which she got in July 2021. (I have a 2021 Model 3 SR+.)
She has taken this vehicle on many road trips. These road trips have been anywhere from ~200 miles to 1,500+ miles. Trips to the SF Bay Area, as well as to remote areas of southern Utah and northern Arizona. She’s handled them all with aplomb.
Now, we certainly have had to learn about the, umm, unique proclivities and quirks of the VW software (she still has the original version), and that has required a learning curve. But, once those oddities are learned, it’s simply become part of the way the ID.4 works. (Every vehicle I’ve lived with over the past 50 years has had its oddities.) It’s not rocket science, and once you’ve got it, it’s just incorporated into life with an EV.
I’d hate someone to hear the warnings that living with an EV is hard, difficult, etc… and decide “Forget it… I’m sticking with the old.” Yes, fact-based and honest information needs to be given. But to make it sound like one needs an engineering degree to live with an EV is kind of a disservice IMHO.
But I love these videos! Great content and info! Keep it up, Max and Kyle!
Interesting that Kyle didn’t mention that the Polestar has pre-conditioning the battery. It does. All the user has to do is say, “Google, navigate me to nearest super charger, etc”. It warms the battery and automatically stops when the navigation stops.
Kyle is the reason I drive electric .
I know that if you put household non rechargeable batteries in the fridge it improves their shelf life. With that in mind, what actually happens to the energy you put into an EV when the temperature goes down after? Does the state of charge go down with the temperature then go back up when it warms back up?
A couple of comments related to the ID.4. The car does *some* warming just when you are driving, but it is really enough to improve the driving dynamics (make sure that full acceleration and full braking are possible). In my car, it seems to top out around 50F - that's not enough for optimum DC fast charging. But the act of using a DC fast charger also warms the battery - many people report that the 2nd charge of the day seems to be a lot faster only because the battery is still warmer.
I have been told by someone from VW that they intend to add something to the nav so that if you are navigating to a DCFC that it will warm the battery for optimum fast charging experience. But that's not out yet, and as we all know, VW struggles to deploy software to these cars. VW seems to be pushing back on requests to just add a button somewhere that would let people turn it on manually.
I should add that there are lots of people that refuse to use the builtin nav, and insist on using Google/Apple/Waze. It won't be obvious to those people that a crummy charging experience is related to their choice of navigation application.
To update this comment: Both automatic and manual battery preconditioning is available in the ID.4 starting with the 2024 model year.
And they don't seem to be "crummy" about giving software updates, it's more like they take a while because they test them so extensively, ensuring both forward and backward compatibility. I would rather have that than an update bricking the car because they didn't test a configuration.
For grins I selected a DCFast Charger in my Taycan Navigation enroute to a destination on a planned trip. My battery was 70F from sitting in the garage. On the highway the consumption was 480 Wh/mi where it is usually 360 Wh/mi. The caculated range @ 360 is about 250 miles where @ 480 it's 175 miles. Thats a big loss in range. Fortunately the Taycan Navigation shows arrival battery percent so Navigation can be cancelled if the predicted arrival range gets too low. The battery went up to 91F during the trip to the charger.
Will leaving the vehicle plugged into AC even after it has finished its charging keep the battery warm?
I think Ioniq 5 with pre-cond will stop after 20%, so as long as you are within 20% of range you would be good. Yeah, its a bit of working out the numbers.
Good stuff boys, thanks! Taking our first road trip in a '23 M3LR today...and yeah, it's cold and windy here! Looking forward to seeing how she does on the trip. Charged up to 96%-97% this a.m. So ~340 miles est'd range by Tesla...assuming I may get closer to 260? Strong headwinds (40-45mps gusts) + 47F temps (so not too bad). ~280 mile trip...gonna be fun.,
The Polestar 2 will also pre-condition the battery if you navigate to a DC fast charger with the native Google software.
Believe it or not so many eevee's still do not have battery conditioning
for your spreadsheet, dont forget the SR versions of MY/M3 are 170 max.
Added! Thanks for the reminder -Max
My late year 2022 ID.4 charges at 170kw, I thought it was a fluke but I've done it a handful of times now.
Pro-tip for other Bolt/EUV owners traveling in the cold: If you're planning to take a trip, you should run your battery down at least a bit the day before. The night before you leave, go to a local DC Fast Charger and plug in for >30 minutes. That will activate the battery heater and bring things up to temp. If you're able to park in a garage overnight, do that as well. This isn't a panacea for throttling and obviously won't work if you don't have a DCFC near your house or a garage, but it will help.
@BensEcoAdvntr So the Bolt only heats when is on the charger? Does the yo-yo work on the Bolt?
@@Noxspecter yes but you have to yoyo a LOT for it to move the temp even a little. It's safer and easier to just plug in if possible.
2.42 "Batteries are like humans". That's hilarious
Does the Ford E Transit tell you battery temperature and have the feature of preconditioning the battery when selecting a fast charger in its GPS?
Do you have any data on the range of E Transits in each configuration at different payloads and outside temperatures or know where I can find that? Thanks.
E-Golf pack is already too hot around 40*C and will reduce amp draw at DCFC. I realize most new EVs have pack active thermal management with cooling/heating fluid (not Leaf) but there are plenty of passively thermally managed (passive conduction / convection of heat) packs in used EVs.
All EVs need a battery pack temp gauge like an ICE car water temp gauge.
What is it about EV batteries that they don’t warm up with use? For example, I have a 40V electric lawnmower. When I’m done with that after 45 minutes and the battery is at 2
~25% SOC (based on the GOM lights), it is warm - very warm. I wouldn’t say it’s from the sun / ambient temp, it’s from use. Can you do a video on battery chemistry 101?
Hey Max and Kyle, another example for battery conditioning that would be similar in ICE vehicles would be a block heater does a similar thing but for different components.
Straight forward great advice from this guy Kyle here
Seems like stating maximum charging rate would be a fairly easy implementation within a car's infotainment. Either during a charging session summary or within a digital user manual. The fact that charging rates can be updated via software means they can also inform the owner/driver via software.
So what is the best EV for cold climate ? Like UP of Michigan cold ?
An update: The ID.4 has both automatic and manual battery preconditioning for the 2024 model year. For manual preconditioning, the screen will tell you how long to precondition to get the optimal charging speed, so you don't need to be using VW's nav to take advantage of it.
Would it be to much to include the Charging curve on the Doc? Maybe separte in tabs by Maker? Great work y'all
One thing - do not rely on the salesman telling you that the car will precondition………… he will tell you YES but what he means is that the car will warm/cool the cabin, not the battery. I have a Mini Copper S E - it has “preconditioning” but of the cabin UNLESS it is plugged in to a charger and the battery unit is below 10C then and only then will it warm up the battery, it will not do it while the car is moving. BMW says that for a 28.9kWh battery prewarming the battery before charging isn’t necessary as it’s fastest charging speed is “only” 50kW - great but my local chargers have just gone from free to use to paid for AND with a time limit of 40 minutes with no return within 90 minutes………. So no hope of a deep charge there then.
In general-- do not rely on salesmen/dealers. They don't seem to know a lot of their EV lineup pretty well (for most brands).
Great info as always! Hey Max, not to put any more work on you or the team but do you and your boss think it'd be worthwhile to have a column with either the manufacturer or OutofSpec optimal observed 10-80% charge time?
Definitely a useful stat -- we want to standardize and list our results for charging curve/10-80% range soon and will have a video out when we do so
@@iMaxPatten that’d be really cool, thanks! OoS does great charging tests and so if it’s possible to leverage that info into a column to accompany this initial spreadsheet doc, that’d be really cool. Especially since we know mfg and real world optimal charging times can differ pretty significantly.
I think the topic of tires would be good. How they affect the range (especially winter tires) and why electric vehicles require a certain type of tire.
Good info.
Could someone please correct the charging speed document listed in this description? For the 2018-present Nissan LEAF with a 62 KwH battery, that one will charge to hundred kilowatts, not just fifty. thx
HOW TO QUICK CHARGE (IF SO EQUIPPED)
Quick charge uses public charging stations (up to 50 kW of power [for 40 kWh battery models] / 100 kW of power [for 62 kWh battery models]) to charge the battery in a short period of time.
Why would an EV being driven on the highway in cold temps channel heat to the battery. That's half of thermal management. Otherwise we'd just call it battery cooling.
Regretfully the worst and most disappointing of cars that don't have preconditioning is the Kia EV6 pre July 2022 builds.. While Hyundai Ioniq 5 vehicles recently got an update, there is no update on the horizon for the Kia EV6. So even with our 800V architecture, we're charging at Chevy Bolt rates, if we're lucky.
EV6 has been able to get a software update since October. At least in Europe. I wouldn’t expect it to be region based, but I don’t know for sure. We need to go to a dealer for the update. I can assure you it works. I drive an EV6 from November 2021. You may want to talk to your Kia dealer or importer if your local Kia is not helping.
@@tomm5936 Kia just released TSBs for the Kia EV6 just in the last couple weeks. Have an appointment for battery preconditioning and electronic brake the updates tomorrow as well as my 8000mi(10000km) checkup. Crossing fingers that it works as well as you made it out to be
Though as some have noted, it's not as clean and streamline on preconditioning the battery like Tesla, Rivan Mercedes and Ford to name but a few, who have a seamless battery preconditioning. But even in convoluted form, I'll run with it then charging at 50kW at a 350kW DCFC during 8 months of the year..
What about Polestar 2?
Correction on the google sheeeet - the BZ4X charging rates are reversed between FWD and AWD
Correcting! Thanks for the notice
I want a car not another hobby or religion
😆😆 it’s fun jump in 😂
...what?
Supposedly, the Polestar 2 has battery pre-conditioning, tied to the Google based navigation software. However, I see no evidence this exists. Many Car Reviewers, including Out of Spec, said the Polestar 2 has battery pre-conditioning. I have yet to see any documentation, which confirms this..
Next time we get a Polestar 2 to drive at we'll take a look
Thanks Max. The fastest charging speed I have achieved, in a Polestar 2, this winter has been 130kW; unless I yo-yo’d, on the way to an DC fast charger.
@@stgeorgee Polestar 2 does have precondition thru navigating to a DCFC station in Google Maps in AAOS. You also can also do a precondition by going to climate settings and select the parking tab. At bottom of that page there is a precondition button. Has a max 30 minute preconditioning limit. Since my closes DCFC is only 3 miles away and won't precondition the battery, thru navigating Google Maps, in that short of distance. I precondition thru climate setting for 30 minutes and then drive 5 to 7 minutes to DCFC and I'm able to maximize charging speeds. If you go shorter than 30 minute charge your maximized speed do drop off based on how long you preconditioned.
@@tiredplumber that’s all good, but show me Polestar Documentation, which supports this. As far as I have seen and experienced, “Pre-conditioning”, only affects the cabin, not the battery. Also, when using Google maps to navigate to a DCFC, you should see make charging speed (150 kW). There are any number of ways to verify the existence of a battery pre-conditioning, in a Polestar 2, however, I have observed no examples.
If pre-conditioning exists, why doesn’t polestar allow manual pre-conditioning?
@@stgeorgee I also peak around 135 to 140 Kw when using Google Maps charger routing on 150 kW chargers. Up to152 Kw on 350 Kw chargers. Documentation for battery heating is owners manual under climate control/preconditioning where battery heating is discussed. Forgot to mention must be plugged into AC charger for battery heating to work otherwise you are correct, just heating the cabin.
Dont fast charge youll regret it in the long run
Fast charging speed is the least of our cold weather worries.
Battery performance AND energy storage is appreciably better when the battery is at warm or mildly hot temperature. It's not equally efficient nor marginally less efficient when it's zero degrees. The efficiency hit is bad. This is because low and especially very low temps increase internal resistance and cathode conductivity which limits output AND decreases operating efficiency. Extremely cold batteries don't function at all.
While it wouldn't make sense to run an inefficient PTC heater to create heat for the battery, necessarily, any modern EV with a reasonable and efficient thermal management system will ensure that warm coolant from the motor/controller is directed to the battery instead of shedding it through a radiator or cooling fins, and initial exothermic heat from battery output is retained in the pack to bring it up to temperature more quickly.
Any car with a heat pump can benefit from warming the battery. Cold from the road ambient air is not transferred to a battery, because cold doesn't conduct. Only heat does, and it rises. It is useful to warm the battery in all but the hottest temperatures. If battery heat was an issue, preconditioning it wouldn't raise battery temps far above normal operating temp, which it does try to do.
This discussion would have been better if an EV engineer was weighing in on what they've chosen to do on their design in cold temps.
pay attention to what i say . E V'S ARE NOT THE PROBLEM . U heard ME the CAR is just fine . replace the BATTERY with a different power source and ( STOP ) the UTILITY MENTALITY $$$$ and don't beleave the B S that it can't be done .
Hey, Kyle. It's America so use the American Fahrenheit. If you love Centigrade so much, move to Europe.
1000lbs half a ton of potential explosive about to self combust
Sounds a bit Conservative when the average ev weighs more than 2 ton heavier then a large van if the battery weighs half a ton how can the rest of the car weigh 1.5 ton
You know the old adage about how do you know who is the vegan in the room? Don't worry they'll tell you.
Should be the same for coping EV owners.
Why would anyone add this narcissism and stress to their life?
I find it ironic that all the additional technical knowledge needed and stress added to your life with an EV. Is sweet Justice for this fraud.
I get there a lot of engineering nerds that buy these cars and love the tinkering, but the bulk of owners are weak beta males and chicks from the suburbs that want something simple but I bought in a major headache
My Honda Civic gets like 600 to 700 KMs from one small tank of fuel. All the heat I want, all the power I want. Never buy an EV and vote government out which want to push the gimmick on us.
Trump is right about EV cars!