Correct, technically, the Enterprise E used quantum torpedoes before not only it's manufacture date but before First Contact and the formation of the Federation!!
It makes sense. In the Defiant's 1st appearance, Sisko did say the USS Defiant was the first ship in what would've been a new Federation battle fleet. You could assume he meant packs of Defiant's but it could have included other designs to augment the packs. Akira? Steamrunner? Norway? And a Sovereign or Galaxy class to serve as command ships? But they obviously would be very devastating in packs like Klingon Birds of Prey. Guess we'll never know.
Defiants are meant to fight in battlegroups led by heavier ships. Heavier ships lay down heavy fire, and torpedo barrages, while the Defiants swarm, drawing some of the fire away from the heavier ships. It forces the Cube to defend against two very different targets.
i am big fan of star trek games movies and so on i like this one of you video good job and i have idea maybe u should do 40 Klington ships or starfleet ships for the next one
40 Defiants would be pretty impressive tbf, considering Starfleet sent about 40 (much, much bigger) ships to both Wolf 359 and Sector 001 and only beat them in the second engagement.
The major issue from Wolf359 though was that a lot of those ships were older models - ships in service way past their shelf life. I'm not sure if it was TNG or DS9 but one of the shows mentions that starfleet hadn't been innovating new ships because there wasn't a pressing need for it.
Defensively, Starfleet had grown pretty stagnant, and nothing demonstrated that fact more than the massacre at Wolf 359. And the fact that the D had spouses and children of some of the crew aboard just further shows how lackadaisical they'd become. Hell, even though the Defiant class was the first class in a long time built specifically for combat, they called it an escort instead of a warship.
5:00 There were also at least two Defiant Class and a Prometheus in the battle group of 18 ships that responded to the Borg sphere that brought Voyager home. I'm not sure on the timeline when this happened in relation to the battle of Sector 001, but this might have been a time when Quantums were used on the Borg, since there was a moment of time during the engagement before Admiral Paris ordered a ceasefire that we didn't see.
This was after Star Trek: First Contact. Until Star Trek: Picard, the last two stories in the Prime universe, chronologically (keeping solely to movies and TV) were the final episode of Star Trek: Voyager, and then Star Trek: Nemesis.
This was freaking awesome and hilarious at the same time. Watching all those Defiant's drop like flies lol. I'm not surprised the game crashed with 50 Defiant's lol. I think 40 Defiant's would have defeated the Assimilation Cube. I honestly had no idea it was this particular cube in First Contact. I LOLed at seeing "Janeway's revenge". Those transphasic torpedoes devastating to the Borg. It's a shame that Voyager was stripped of it's future tech when it returned to the Alpha Quadrant. I know I've asked you before about which graphics card would be best suited to run Bridge Commander. As I am going to build me a new computer hopefully next year and I want to be able to play Bridge Commander. So I will DEFINITELY be interested if you find the right parts and make that video.
The first time we saw the use of those transphasic torpedoes was nothing short of cathartic, lol. It was like "Resistance is futi-"KABOOOOM*" Also, it seems as if the Defiants here aren't as maneuverable as has been shown before in the show and Star Trek Online.
@@valor1omega This is a game. Not necessarily at all representative of what we know from the lore of the show. Which showed that the single Defiant among a fleet of other ships, certainly did not get instantly destroyed but survived the battle. There are a ton of variables at play. But the bottom line is I would trust my own personal analysis based on the canon engagements in the show and movies a lot more than some game.
😨Admiral.. I was gonna say. all those weapons fire, would open a fissure in space gosh.. The Borg Cube is wicked.. all the multi firing and it has a sphere on the inside.. just the size difference gosh.. In First Contact, poor Defiant, jeepers Yes hard to watch.. eeh. Would love to see that video on a computer able to take this.. quantum computers, are very pricy eeh.. lol. You did good with the Defiant, great tactics.. but glad to see Armored Voyager and won. oufff , Well done Admiral!! * Just remember to pick up all the pieces that fly down to earth lol. just saying!!! leave nothing..!! lol 😊🖖
Well this goes to show you why a variety of ships is important, as you have the heavy hitters with the stronger shields taking the hits, while the smaller ones do the damage, and also I always thought their was two defiant classes, like a light cruiser variant and a frigate based on all the size differences and what they did in star trek armada with the USS Avenger. Kinda like the bird of prey really, also you should try this with all the ships that were listed via ex astris for the first contact battle , and see how well that goes
Try the Borg buster fleet. 1-akira,1 steam runner,1 sovereign,1 defiant and 1 saber class ship. See if they can do it working in concert with each other to defeat the Borg
You should try a full recreation of the full battle of sector 001 with all ships.... including the U.S.S. Millennium Falcon, or could the Federation Galactica take out the Assimilation cube?
The game runs on a version of Netimmerse/Gamebryo. The same engine Skyrim uses and the game rift and dark age of Camelot. The engine does not handle massive amounts of on-screen objects at once very well. And I'm surprised you're only using a 3050
You've mentioned the strange effect of the cloaking device on other 3D objects in the past; it actually reminds me of the way that the Sega Saturn deals with polygon transparency in that any object behind is simply not rendered (with the exception of the background). I wonder if it was done to reduce GPU load by preventing the stacking of multiple layers of transparent polygons?
@stephandolby I remember that transparency effect well! That's a good theory. The Saturn was epic at 2D fighting games, especially with the 4MB expansion cartridge 🖖
I remember playing Serious Sam 1 online with my little brother, I was on a fairly new PC but he was using a Pentium 550Mhz and god knows what graphics card. When we turned down all the settings for him it had a playable framerate. Despite the low performance he had one bizarre advantage, walls were rendered translucent and you could see players right through them. You could still see the walls and navigate easily but also everything behind. It was like an accidental hardware wallhack. In reality the stuttering performance vastly outweighed any benefit.
@RetroBadgerGaming - this battle reminds me of the Star Trek Voyager episode “The Fight”, at the end, where the Hazari (Species 428), attacked the think tank. Also on a second note, technically according to canon no Federation ship now has a cloaking device, after the second battle of Chin’toka, as I believe it was the original Defiant (NX-74205) only, as I believe the replacement USS Defiant (formally the USS São Paulo), NCC-75633, didn’t have a cloak installed at any point after it was assigned to Deep Space 9 according to Canon I believe.
I'm running a i5-10500 with a RTX30690ti, I can run 50 ships at a time, after that the game engine seems to become unstable. I was trying to see how many Wolf 359 ships it would take to win and I was able to get up to 60 ships but the game kept crashing randomly
I do think it's realistic. Janeway would totally smack that assimilation cube once she got word it was about to assimilate all of Earth's coffee supply.
I think the whole point of the Defiant class is to unload as much firepower as fast as possible so they can destroy a Borg ship before it has enough time to adapt. So if they don't quickly destroy a Borg ship after the initial strike, they'd retreat to modify their weapons and come back in greater numbers. There's no way for the Defiant to win a battle of attrition once the Borg adapts, so it's better to play it safe and not lose any ships, which they will need for a second concentrated attack.
well you consider what they said about it vs a Negvarh in the mirror episode episode, where they had to stay close to avoid getting hit, and sisko had just lost his family on an ancient Miranda class, so maximum power, in the smallest package possible, and they wouldnt all be using one class of ship as the heavy hitters would take the damage, while the small ones fly all over the cube, as all starfleet had was a bunch of small science ships, a few ancient designs, and the galaxy with nothing really ment to fight save for maybe an uprated excelsior class with the original fight in that episode as they said that they had some good designs, but they were about 6 months from production
I have two opposing thoughts on this. 1) The Defiant class was created using incomplete, inaccurate, and/or outdated information. Most of the info Starfleet had to draw upon came from two encounters: The first time the Enterprise D met the Borg, which they survived, give or take a small section of a few decks and about 12 crewmates, and only thanks to Q pulling their fat out of the fire. During this encounter, the Borg had also accessed nearly everything they needed to know about the Flagship of the federation. The second encounter was Wolf 359, of which Sisko was a survivor, where the cube defeated starships, clearly giving them no quarter and not messing around like they had during the initial encounter. So there seemed to be some confusion about how the Borg would react to various threats, and what their full capabilities were. So tl;dr, Sisko made some bad calculations. 2) The modders made the Borg cube too powerful. Yes, the cube was victorious against 40 starships, but most of those ships were Ambassadors, Excelsiors, and Mirandas. Ships that were out of date and far from top-of-the-line. No regenerative shielding, no quantum torpedoes, and to be fair, we don't know how much damage they managed to do to the Cube before it regenerated and moved on. The mod seems to make the assumption that it one-shot every ship and took no damage, which i think is silly. If we look at First Contact, it only took a few ships targeting the same spot to blow up the cube, and the Defiant, while disabled, was NOT destroyed ("Tough little ship!" "Little?!") So IMO, the Borg Cube should have been balanced around maybe 5-10 Defiants. This is just redonkulous.
In regards to the cloaking technology the Borg have assimilated 10 thousand species so at least 50 or maybe 100 races that possessed some form of cloaking technology meaning there's probably no cloak they cant adapt to and they've assimilated the defiants cloaking technology cos its Romulan
I'm sure it's been retconned since I was really into the franchise but... the defiant class ship was designed to be part of the federations response plan for the Borg. 4 Defiant class ships, 2 akira class ships, 2 steamrunner class ships and 1 sovereign class ship was meant to make up a single battle group that would take on a cube according to the books that came out - circa 2000. However, once the Dominion War broke out - this whole plan got canned in favor of getting every ship possible to the front lines.
Hit and run tactics aka cloak/decloaking... OMG he is finally understanding what i told him 18 months ago.. grade B-..... personally 35 Defiants and Admiral Janeways ship realistically could have done it.. Grade now is C-
I would think the defiant and the rest would have to fight as a squad and not all go do their own thing. Borg vessels seem to be weakest hewn multiple ships attacked them in the solace and after the battle of sector 001 they had better knowledge of where that weak spot was.
I've always wondered what it would be like to have a Defiant Class with the armor on Voyager. It would have both ablative armor and that type of armor. Maybe having 40 to 50 defiants with that armor would take down the cube much more effectively.
Well, RBG I tried this same battle on my Pc which has a Ryzen 9800x3d, 64gb DDR5, and a RTX 3080ti. And yet even with current king of gaming CPU's, the frame rate and crashing you experienced is almost identical with both 50 and 40 vs 1. Its clearly a game engine limitation with it only using a single cpu core/thread.
40 Defiants may still not be enough, as there were 40 starships at Wolf 359 and they bought it. Seeing it took about 8 transphasics to kill it seemed to overpower even that cube. Should have needed 4 at most.
The ships at Wolf 359 were mostly not as heavily armed as the Defiant though (although some would be tougher). The opening volley of 160 quantum torpedoes is pretty insane to think about.
@@valor1omega Maybe they hung back and were used as sensor / ECM boats. Finding weakness in the cube and trying to interfere with their operations. That to me is the only logical reason. But it could have just been a joke from the production staff like showing that constitution class destroyed in the debris scene.
The Defiant lasted well over an hour against the borg in First Contact and was still dealing heavy damage right up until the Enterprise E arrived. Apart from the Akira class, the other ships were mostly aged or not built for combat. What we never saw in canon were the wolfpack tactics multiple Defiants would employ, which wasn't what was happening in this video.
I've stopped the video at 2:11 in order to write this comment because I had a Borg brainwave: Multi-Vector Assimilation Mode! Basically, take a 3x3x3km cube and split it into 27 1x1x1 km 'Borg cubicles', which in turn separate into 27 333x333x333 m 'Borg dice', which in turn 27 111x111x111m 'Borg pebbles'. Now we're roughly in the size region of a defiant, but that assimilation cube has separated into no less than 19,683 Borg vessels. Given that Borg cubes are already of a highly decentralized nature and every drone can communicate with every other all the time already, it seems only... natural ? My point is: Getting away with a few dozen defiants is one hell of a bargain in terms of resources spent, actually 😅 How many Voyager Js would be needed to destroy a 29th century temporal Borg cube ?
Maybe 35 Defiants might have done the job while not crashing the game? Or not. Definitely a hard needle to thread. While the theory of swarming the Borg makes some sense; they would have a hard time calculating all those Defiants as well, trying to crank out hundreds of Defiant class ships to deal with a Borg threat might not make good sense. The Defiant might be small, but it isn't that simple or cheap! Still, this is an interesting question to put to the test! It DOES make sense to have 40 Defiants built to take down the Borg as opposed to 40 bigger, older, more heavily crewed ships that fail! One might wonder how many Saber or Norway classes it would take? Those classes also work on 'small', but are more modular and supposedly less resource intensive than the Defiant? They might make more of a realistic test for the swarm theory, depending on if the game engine can handle it! Truth be told, it might just take a mix of vessels to do the job. A cloud of swarm vessels, lots of old ships, some more modern ships like the Akira and Intrepid, and two or three big boys like the Galaxy or Sovereign. (or both!)
Unfortunately for tests like this, the GPU doesn't really the cause of slideshows. Since Bridge Commander runs off of a single core of any CPU, alot of ships that have their own AI to manage tends to be what clogs the system. I'm sure if you turned on some kind of performance overlay, like MSI Afterburner, that it will show during scenes with dozens of Defiants that the GPU is just sitting and waiting for the struggling CPU core to figure what all those ships are supposed to be doing.
Hi all, need more firepower! You need a mix of Defiants and Akiras to stand off and pummel it with torpedos. Now that should be your next attempt. Take care M.
Hi, it’s interesting that the fleet design was defiants, akiras and norways. Small ships to be hard to target and small crews. The losses in crew is a major factor in this as well as the No of ships. The best analogy would be bees, each one is small but a swarm is able to see off larger foes. So 160 quantum torpedos is what’s required so you can see why akiras as a torpedo platform are integral to the battle. The Enterprise in the original encounter wanted to use the deflector as a weapon to do more damage than they could with standard phasers. Later we see a larger number of pulse phasers or lances used on other ships. Take care M.
I always imagined the defiant would be most successful in a squad diamond formation. Three up front, fourth bringing up the rear. Three unload taking down the shields...forth comes in and unloads quantums. Each ship on its own random phaser and shield frequencies.
That cubes hull looked knackered during the 40 defiants fight, I think they would have managed it had it not crashed. What about mixing in some bigger ships to act at damage sponges so a smaller number of Defiants can hammer it? That might work.
Here is my thought. It's not very bright. When BC is in multiplayer mode, I suspect that each computer has to track each object. The game would probably become even less stable if you were running it across many computers. That said, it might be fun to do the test. There is a very small, but not trivial possibility that by spanning the game across sever computers, it might be able to track a greater number of things.
Unless you can use the "nose" warhead I doubt that less than 10 Defiants could pull it off. 10:38 I doubt that Starfleet would be able to produce enough quantum torpedoes for all of them, though. Otherwise an Akira-class would have an easier time dishing those out and thus be a better ship to have those allocated to. I would say that Starfleet built at least 100 Defiant-class destroyers and to have all of those restocked with such torpedoes would be challenging.
On the one hand, Federation (+150 planets) would not have a problem sending 30, 40 or 50 Defiants against a Borg cube. On the other hand it always felt strange that the Borg did merely sent a single cube. Voyager featured episodes on how they actually conquered races.
You should probably get either an AMD 9800X3D or 9700X CPU for Bridge Commander: they're great for these old games that rely so much on singlecore CPU performance. Which of those is best depends on if the 9800X3D's 3D-vcache helps the game more than the 9700X's slightly higher clockspeed. I doubt the GPU matters much and any recent midrange card will do just fine, especially at resolutions below 4K.
When you have more ships on screen, lower your resolution and drop your visual effects quality. A 3050 is a budget-budget card and even an older game will struggle with a lot of on-screen elements.
You need bio-neural gel packs to properly run Bridge Commander, unfortunately they have one massive weakness, Neelix's cooking. Though to be fair he is an existential threat to every system and crew member, rivalled only by Q.
CPU: Pentium® II 300Mhz processor (Pentium® II 450Mhz processor recommended) or Athlon® processor RAM: 64MB RAM GPU: 3-D Hardware Accelerator (with 16MB VRAM)* 100% DirectX® 8.0a compatible 16MB video card and drivers DX: DirectX® 8.0a or higher (included) OS: US version of Microsoftâ Windows® 95 OSR2/98/ME/2000/XP operating system STO: 650 MB of uncompressed hard disk space for game files; plus an additional 100 MB for Windows® swap file Sound: 100% DirectX® 8.0a or higher compatible sound card and drivers ODD: Quad Speed CD-ROM drive (600 K/sec sustained transfer rate) NET: Internet (TCP/IP) and LAN (TCP/IP and IPX) play supported Internet play requires a 100% Windowsâ 95 OSR2/98/ME/2000/XP 28.8 Kbps modem Recommended peripheral: 100% Microsoft®-compatible mouse, keyboard NOTE: 100% Windows® 95/98/ME/2000/XP compatible computer system (including compatible 32-bit drivers for CD-ROM drive, video card, sound card and input devices.) * A 100% DirectXâ compliant 3-D video card is required. Star Trek: Bridge Commander uses DirectXâ 8.0a to support 3-D hardware acceleration. Star Trek: Bridge Commander has been tested on many but not all of the major cards incorporating the chipsets listed below: -nVidia™ Riva TNT and TNT2 -All nVidia™ GeForce chipsets -3dfx™ Voodoo3, 4 or 5 -ATI® Rage 128 -All ATI® Radeon chipsets -Matrox G400 & G550 -Kyro® 1 and 2 -Intel® i810e -Trident Blade XP™
(Whistles though his teeth) Until you showed the Armored Voyager, fighting it, I wasn't sure if it was the Defiant Class ships or the Assimilation Cube. It is quite firmly the latter, the A-Cube is a nightmare beast that soak up damage and retaliate with ship slagging force. It must be several orders of magnitude worse than the cube from the Best of Both Worlds. No wonder it was taking out Defiant Class ships like they were clay pigeons. Starfleet's first anti-Borg ship was never meant to take on something on that scale.
It would be interesting to see how the Liberator from Blake's 7 would fair against starlet vessels such as the Defiant since it was considered to be a really powerful ship. I wonder if anybody has ever done a mod of it? I can remember when I used to play Klingon Academy people made some impressive mods, but never saw that one.
Oh no... today WILL be a good day to die. Don't let them assimilate you. 😄 My guess... without transphasic torpedoes... 10. Maybe 15. Maybe more. 😆 Wow, ok, I was wrong... they adapted. 😄 Holy crap... even 25 couldn't do it. Wow, 4GB video card... impressive! My computer would have crashed ages ago. I've built 2 computers, but that was over 20 years ago. It was fun. I'd like to see the video of you making your new computer.
The borg adapted by crashing your computer. Sneaky.
Agh! Nanites!
😂😂😂
They've adapted to think like Kirk. We're doomed!
Makes me think of Data vs a Zakdorn: if you cant win, go for a stalemate.
The enterprise was the first ship to fire quantum torpedos at the Borg because it happened in 2063
@@Dreadtothink The Movie First Contact, Right?
I saw the 2026. It didn't register but now I see you're correct.
Correct, technically, the Enterprise E used quantum torpedoes before not only it's manufacture date but before First Contact and the formation of the Federation!!
👏
Ha True.
It makes sense.
In the Defiant's 1st appearance, Sisko did say the USS Defiant was the first ship in what would've been a new Federation battle fleet. You could assume he meant packs of Defiant's but it could have included other designs to augment the packs. Akira? Steamrunner? Norway? And a Sovereign or Galaxy class to serve as command ships?
But they obviously would be very devastating in packs like Klingon Birds of Prey.
Guess we'll never know.
Defiants are meant to fight in battlegroups led by heavier ships. Heavier ships lay down heavy fire, and torpedo barrages, while the Defiants swarm, drawing some of the fire away from the heavier ships. It forces the Cube to defend against two very different targets.
yeah because the computer power required to handle enough of them to take a cube down is to much for any computers cpu to handle💀💀
i am big fan of star trek games movies and so on i like this one of you video good job and i have idea maybe u should do 40 Klington ships or starfleet ships for the next one
40 Defiants would be pretty impressive tbf, considering Starfleet sent about 40 (much, much bigger) ships to both Wolf 359 and Sector 001 and only beat them in the second engagement.
The major issue from Wolf359 though was that a lot of those ships were older models - ships in service way past their shelf life. I'm not sure if it was TNG or DS9 but one of the shows mentions that starfleet hadn't been innovating new ships because there wasn't a pressing need for it.
Defensively, Starfleet had grown pretty stagnant, and nothing demonstrated that fact more than the massacre at Wolf 359. And the fact that the D had spouses and children of some of the crew aboard just further shows how lackadaisical they'd become.
Hell, even though the Defiant class was the first class in a long time built specifically for combat, they called it an escort instead of a warship.
I look forward to your Bridge Commander computer project! Good luck! 🖖
Thanks 🖖
5:00 There were also at least two Defiant Class and a Prometheus in the battle group of 18 ships that responded to the Borg sphere that brought Voyager home. I'm not sure on the timeline when this happened in relation to the battle of Sector 001, but this might have been a time when Quantums were used on the Borg, since there was a moment of time during the engagement before Admiral Paris ordered a ceasefire that we didn't see.
This was after Star Trek: First Contact. Until Star Trek: Picard, the last two stories in the Prime universe, chronologically (keeping solely to movies and TV) were the final episode of Star Trek: Voyager, and then Star Trek: Nemesis.
This was freaking awesome and hilarious at the same time.
Watching all those Defiant's drop like flies lol. I'm not surprised the game crashed with 50 Defiant's lol.
I think 40 Defiant's would have defeated the Assimilation Cube. I honestly had no idea it was this particular cube in First Contact.
I LOLed at seeing "Janeway's revenge". Those transphasic torpedoes devastating to the Borg. It's a shame that Voyager was stripped of it's future tech when it returned to the Alpha Quadrant.
I know I've asked you before about which graphics card would be best suited to run Bridge Commander. As I am going to build me a new computer hopefully next year and I want to be able to play Bridge Commander. So I will DEFINITELY be interested if you find the right parts and make that video.
The first time we saw the use of those transphasic torpedoes was nothing short of cathartic, lol. It was like "Resistance is futi-"KABOOOOM*"
Also, it seems as if the Defiants here aren't as maneuverable as has been shown before in the show and Star Trek Online.
Ty for the video and LLAP!
They have the ability to adapt !! Commander Badger !
This is the equivalent of a bunch of bumblebees attacking a grizzly bear.
In the case of the Defiant it's more like a bunch of crippled fleas attacking a grizzly.
Not enough commands in the game to be able to duplicate starfleet tatics and strageties like the swarming, ding ding and dash style.
@@valor1omega This is a game. Not necessarily at all representative of what we know from the lore of the show. Which showed that the single Defiant among a fleet of other ships, certainly did not get instantly destroyed but survived the battle. There are a ton of variables at play. But the bottom line is I would trust my own personal analysis based on the canon engagements in the show and movies a lot more than some game.
30 Texas class vs the cube would be an interesting one.
😨Admiral.. I was gonna say. all those weapons fire, would open a fissure in space gosh.. The Borg Cube is wicked.. all the multi firing and it has a sphere on the inside.. just the size difference gosh.. In First Contact, poor Defiant, jeepers Yes hard to watch.. eeh. Would love to see that video on a computer able to take this.. quantum computers, are very pricy eeh.. lol. You did good with the Defiant, great tactics.. but glad to see Armored Voyager and won. oufff , Well done Admiral!! * Just remember to pick up all the pieces that fly down to earth lol. just saying!!! leave nothing..!! lol 😊🖖
Props for trying this great video
Well this goes to show you why a variety of ships is important, as you have the heavy hitters with the stronger shields taking the hits, while the smaller ones do the damage, and also I always thought their was two defiant classes, like a light cruiser variant and a frigate based on all the size differences and what they did in star trek armada with the USS Avenger. Kinda like the bird of prey really, also you should try this with all the ships that were listed via ex astris for the first contact battle , and see how well that goes
The Borg tried to assimilate your computer in order to win. Glad the game engine knew to self-destruct instead.
how many cpu cores does the game use?
Nice battle, i wonder how many Babylon 5 White Stars will it take to destroy that borg cube?
Apparently those 50 Defiants and the Borg forged an alliance against your computer
I’d like to see the Assimilation Cube facing four Ori ships please.
Try the Borg buster fleet. 1-akira,1 steam runner,1 sovereign,1 defiant and 1 saber class ship. See if they can do it working in concert with each other to defeat the Borg
You should try a full recreation of the full battle of sector 001 with all ships.... including the U.S.S. Millennium Falcon, or could the Federation Galactica take out the Assimilation cube?
The game runs on a version of Netimmerse/Gamebryo. The same engine Skyrim uses and the game rift and dark age of Camelot.
The engine does not handle massive amounts of on-screen objects at once very well.
And I'm surprised you're only using a 3050
Voyager with the upgrades is invincable 😅
Funny, I was just watching a video on Trek Central on the ships that were at Sector 001.
No wonder things went so poorly for the Defiant swarm… Mister John Pickle wasn’t there to bail them out like in Sector 001!
The Defiant Scale has been born
I know it's not the strongest ship but the defiant has been my.favourite ship since I was a kid. Followed closely by the enterprise D
You've mentioned the strange effect of the cloaking device on other 3D objects in the past; it actually reminds me of the way that the Sega Saturn deals with polygon transparency in that any object behind is simply not rendered (with the exception of the background). I wonder if it was done to reduce GPU load by preventing the stacking of multiple layers of transparent polygons?
@stephandolby I remember that transparency effect well! That's a good theory. The Saturn was epic at 2D fighting games, especially with the 4MB expansion cartridge 🖖
I remember playing Serious Sam 1 online with my little brother, I was on a fairly new PC but he was using a Pentium 550Mhz and god knows what graphics card. When we turned down all the settings for him it had a playable framerate. Despite the low performance he had one bizarre advantage, walls were rendered translucent and you could see players right through them. You could still see the walls and navigate easily but also everything behind.
It was like an accidental hardware wallhack. In reality the stuttering performance vastly outweighed any benefit.
@RetroBadgerGaming - this battle reminds me of the Star Trek Voyager episode “The Fight”, at the end, where the Hazari (Species 428), attacked the think tank. Also on a second note, technically according to canon no Federation ship now has a cloaking device, after the second battle of Chin’toka, as I believe it was the original Defiant (NX-74205) only, as I believe the replacement USS Defiant (formally the USS São Paulo), NCC-75633, didn’t have a cloak installed at any point after it was assigned to Deep Space 9 according to Canon I believe.
I'm running a i5-10500 with a RTX30690ti, I can run 50 ships at a time, after that the game engine seems to become unstable. I was trying to see how many Wolf 359 ships it would take to win and I was able to get up to 60 ships but the game kept crashing randomly
Try running wiht just 20 ships and when one of them dies get another to spawn in its place
Tough little ship…… Mr Worf: little??
My guess is the game demands strong single core performance? Just cuz that's often the case with old games.
Yes. The ideal Bridge Commander PC would need the CPU with the fastest single core performance.
How many combined sovereigns and Connie refit refits to take em down
I do think it's realistic. Janeway would totally smack that assimilation cube once she got word it was about to assimilate all of Earth's coffee supply.
Is there a source that says the Battle of Sector of 001 was an assimilation cube? I’m curious where this comes from (the script, a producer, etc).
Tough little ships!
"Little"?
@smartwulf918 that's what he said!
I think the whole point of the Defiant class is to unload as much firepower as fast as possible so they can destroy a Borg ship before it has enough time to adapt.
So if they don't quickly destroy a Borg ship after the initial strike, they'd retreat to modify their weapons and come back in greater numbers. There's no way for the Defiant to win a battle of attrition once the Borg adapts, so it's better to play it safe and not lose any ships, which they will need for a second concentrated attack.
I want to see the DS9 vs this borg cube.
I would imagine “ramming speed” would be warp 9
This hilarious because the Defiant is designed to defeat the Borg. 😅😅😅
And this assimilation cube is designed to beat a large fleet of smaller ships, in other words Defiants.
well you consider what they said about it vs a Negvarh in the mirror episode episode, where they had to stay close to avoid getting hit, and sisko had just lost his family on an ancient Miranda class, so maximum power, in the smallest package possible, and they wouldnt all be using one class of ship
as the heavy hitters would take the damage, while the small ones fly all over the cube, as all starfleet had was a bunch of small science ships, a few ancient designs, and the galaxy
with nothing really ment to fight save for maybe an uprated excelsior class with the original fight in that episode
as they said that they had some good designs, but they were about 6 months from production
Well like the man who created it, it was clearly a failure in every way possible.
the federation should have built a titan. 15km long, enough firepower to destroy a planet and 200 torpedo launchers.
I have two opposing thoughts on this.
1) The Defiant class was created using incomplete, inaccurate, and/or outdated information. Most of the info Starfleet had to draw upon came from two encounters: The first time the Enterprise D met the Borg, which they survived, give or take a small section of a few decks and about 12 crewmates, and only thanks to Q pulling their fat out of the fire. During this encounter, the Borg had also accessed nearly everything they needed to know about the Flagship of the federation. The second encounter was Wolf 359, of which Sisko was a survivor, where the cube defeated starships, clearly giving them no quarter and not messing around like they had during the initial encounter. So there seemed to be some confusion about how the Borg would react to various threats, and what their full capabilities were. So tl;dr, Sisko made some bad calculations.
2) The modders made the Borg cube too powerful. Yes, the cube was victorious against 40 starships, but most of those ships were Ambassadors, Excelsiors, and Mirandas. Ships that were out of date and far from top-of-the-line. No regenerative shielding, no quantum torpedoes, and to be fair, we don't know how much damage they managed to do to the Cube before it regenerated and moved on. The mod seems to make the assumption that it one-shot every ship and took no damage, which i think is silly.
If we look at First Contact, it only took a few ships targeting the same spot to blow up the cube, and the Defiant, while disabled, was NOT destroyed ("Tough little ship!" "Little?!")
So IMO, the Borg Cube should have been balanced around maybe 5-10 Defiants. This is just redonkulous.
The borg took Janeways coffee so she had to get a piece of the action to get her coffee back.
you could do with a working detachable front warhead against the asymalation cube
In regards to the cloaking technology the Borg have assimilated 10 thousand species so at least 50 or maybe 100 races that possessed some form of cloaking technology meaning there's probably no cloak they cant adapt to and they've assimilated the defiants cloaking technology cos its Romulan
Think Ds9 quantum torpedo version could take it out quickly?
I'm sure it's been retconned since I was really into the franchise but... the defiant class ship was designed to be part of the federations response plan for the Borg. 4 Defiant class ships, 2 akira class ships, 2 steamrunner class ships and 1 sovereign class ship was meant to make up a single battle group that would take on a cube according to the books that came out - circa 2000. However, once the Dominion War broke out - this whole plan got canned in favor of getting every ship possible to the front lines.
Prepare for ramming speed!!!
Alex "what did Worf say to Dax during mating?" For $500
I always thought that the assimilation cube was balanced against Locutus's cube in Best of Both Worlds
Interested in what the "best" Bridge Commander computer is.
I'd imagine throwing as much hardware at it would be the solution.
I maintain that the TRUE measure of toughness for ANY ship is how many Defiants it can handle! 😂
Hit and run tactics aka cloak/decloaking... OMG he is finally understanding what i told him 18 months ago.. grade B-..... personally 35 Defiants and Admiral Janeways ship realistically could have done it.. Grade now is C-
I would think the defiant and the rest would have to fight as a squad and not all go do their own thing. Borg vessels seem to be weakest hewn multiple ships attacked them in the solace and after the battle of sector 001 they had better knowledge of where that weak spot was.
2:30 - YEY!!! I’ve been asking for this forever - today IS a good day to die
I've always wondered what it would be like to have a Defiant Class with the armor on Voyager. It would have both ablative armor and that type of armor. Maybe having 40 to 50 defiants with that armor would take down the cube much more effectively.
That would be so epic! 🖖
The assimilation cube is from Best of Both Worlds.
Well, RBG I tried this same battle on my Pc which has a Ryzen 9800x3d, 64gb DDR5, and a RTX 3080ti. And yet even with current king of gaming CPU's, the frame rate and crashing you experienced is almost identical with both 50 and 40 vs 1. Its clearly a game engine limitation with it only using a single cpu core/thread.
I've never played Bridge Commander, but it seems to me like the Defiant class is more maneuverable in STO.
5:07 I would have loved to see this scene as well.
40 Defiants may still not be enough, as there were 40 starships at Wolf 359 and they bought it.
Seeing it took about 8 transphasics to kill it seemed to overpower even that cube. Should have needed 4 at most.
The ships at Wolf 359 were mostly not as heavily armed as the Defiant though (although some would be tougher). The opening volley of 160 quantum torpedoes is pretty insane to think about.
To be fair they even drafted the poor pure science vessels in the fight that had no busy being there either.
@@valor1omega Maybe they hung back and were used as sensor / ECM boats. Finding weakness in the cube and trying to interfere with their operations. That to me is the only logical reason. But it could have just been a joke from the production staff like showing that constitution class destroyed in the debris scene.
The Defiant lasted well over an hour against the borg in First Contact and was still dealing heavy damage right up until the Enterprise E arrived. Apart from the Akira class, the other ships were mostly aged or not built for combat. What we never saw in canon were the wolfpack tactics multiple Defiants would employ, which wasn't what was happening in this video.
@@CamCamTheCat I wonder how much Sisko wad mad he missed the Borg attack at Earth.
I've stopped the video at 2:11 in order to write this comment because I had a Borg brainwave: Multi-Vector Assimilation Mode! Basically, take a 3x3x3km cube and split it into 27 1x1x1 km 'Borg cubicles', which in turn separate into 27 333x333x333 m 'Borg dice', which in turn 27 111x111x111m 'Borg pebbles'. Now we're roughly in the size region of a defiant, but that assimilation cube has separated into no less than 19,683 Borg vessels. Given that Borg cubes are already of a highly decentralized nature and every drone can communicate with every other all the time already, it seems only... natural ?
My point is: Getting away with a few dozen defiants is one hell of a bargain in terms of resources spent, actually 😅
How many Voyager Js would be needed to destroy a 29th century temporal Borg cube ?
Maybe 35 Defiants might have done the job while not crashing the game? Or not. Definitely a hard needle to thread. While the theory of swarming the Borg makes some sense; they would have a hard time calculating all those Defiants as well, trying to crank out hundreds of Defiant class ships to deal with a Borg threat might not make good sense. The Defiant might be small, but it isn't that simple or cheap! Still, this is an interesting question to put to the test!
It DOES make sense to have 40 Defiants built to take down the Borg as opposed to 40 bigger, older, more heavily crewed ships that fail!
One might wonder how many Saber or Norway classes it would take? Those classes also work on 'small', but are more modular and supposedly less resource intensive than the Defiant? They might make more of a realistic test for the swarm theory, depending on if the game engine can handle it!
Truth be told, it might just take a mix of vessels to do the job. A cloud of swarm vessels, lots of old ships, some more modern ships like the Akira and Intrepid, and two or three big boys like the Galaxy or Sovereign. (or both!)
I’d like to suggest the Excelsior vs Enterprise-B to see if the upgrades to the B are all that.
Borg phasers cutting through Defiants, like a hot knife through butter 🥺🖖
Unfortunately for tests like this, the GPU doesn't really the cause of slideshows. Since Bridge Commander runs off of a single core of any CPU, alot of ships that have their own AI to manage tends to be what clogs the system. I'm sure if you turned on some kind of performance overlay, like MSI Afterburner, that it will show during scenes with dozens of Defiants that the GPU is just sitting and waiting for the struggling CPU core to figure what all those ships are supposed to be doing.
Hi all, need more firepower!
You need a mix of Defiants and Akiras to stand off and pummel it with torpedos.
Now that should be your next attempt.
Take care M.
Agreed defiants were a ship in the greater fleet meant to attack cubes about 5 or 10 of them mixed in with other anti borg ships
Hi, it’s interesting that the fleet design was defiants, akiras and norways. Small ships to be hard to target and small crews. The losses in crew is a major factor in this as well as the No of ships.
The best analogy would be bees, each one is small but a swarm is able to see off larger foes.
So 160 quantum torpedos is what’s required so you can see why akiras as a torpedo platform are integral to the battle. The Enterprise in the original encounter wanted to use the deflector as a weapon to do more damage than they could with standard phasers.
Later we see a larger number of pulse phasers or lances used on other ships.
Take care M.
The Defiant is the perfect warships to take on the borg it's just in hand of a goofy commander at the moment 🤣 😊
When it's shields were down that was alpha strike time sir.
Did you do a kithomer class vs the modern warbirds
The battle with 25 Defiants crashed my phone somehow 😆. Game lag + Phone lag
Ultimate Borg weapon...
😂😂
I always imagined the defiant would be most successful in a squad diamond formation. Three up front, fourth bringing up the rear. Three unload taking down the shields...forth comes in and unloads quantums. Each ship on its own random phaser and shield frequencies.
nice
You need a swarm of defiant’s
Your computer was assimilated by the Borg 🤣
😂😂
Where do you get the game and mods from
How about this cube vs Jem'Hadar battleships?
U.s.s Budapest vs u.s.s Appalachia
USS San Paulo, Defiant and Valiant!
That cubes hull looked knackered during the 40 defiants fight, I think they would have managed it had it not crashed. What about mixing in some bigger ships to act at damage sponges so a smaller number of Defiants can hammer it? That might work.
Starfleet should of built more Defiant Classes.
Here is my thought. It's not very bright. When BC is in multiplayer mode, I suspect that each computer has to track each object. The game would probably become even less stable if you were running it across many computers. That said, it might be fun to do the test. There is a very small, but not trivial possibility that by spanning the game across sever computers, it might be able to track a greater number of things.
How many Galaxys to take out the cube!
Brother, RX 6800 for 300 usd right now lol.
Unless you can use the "nose" warhead I doubt that less than 10 Defiants could pull it off.
10:38 I doubt that Starfleet would be able to produce enough quantum torpedoes for all of them, though. Otherwise an Akira-class would have an easier time dishing those out and thus be a better ship to have those allocated to. I would say that Starfleet built at least 100 Defiant-class destroyers and to have all of those restocked with such torpedoes would be challenging.
On the one hand, Federation (+150 planets) would not have a problem sending 30, 40 or 50 Defiants against a Borg cube. On the other hand it always felt strange that the Borg did merely sent a single cube. Voyager featured episodes on how they actually conquered races.
You should probably get either an AMD 9800X3D or 9700X CPU for Bridge Commander: they're great for these old games that rely so much on singlecore CPU performance. Which of those is best depends on if the 9800X3D's 3D-vcache helps the game more than the 9700X's slightly higher clockspeed. I doubt the GPU matters much and any recent midrange card will do just fine, especially at resolutions below 4K.
They need to make a Bridge Commander 2
Totally 🖖
baised on startrek armada 1 & 2 it takes about 12 to take down a lone cube, god i miss those games so bad
I'm getting a real life Defiant for Christmas!
If it's good enough for Sisko it's good enough for me!👌😉🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
If the Borg ever really showed up in force, it would be a turkey shoot for them.
When you have more ships on screen, lower your resolution and drop your visual effects quality. A 3050 is a budget-budget card and even an older game will struggle with a lot of on-screen elements.
Can you have the entire fleet target one subsystem in a coordinated effort like Picard ordered in First Contact?
How powerful are Borg gravimetric torpedoes compared to plasma photon and quantum?
All you need is one Defiant and captain Picard’s cheat code from First Contact 😂
6:00 Would hardware make any difference on how this game runs?
7:27 Ah, ok.
You need bio-neural gel packs to properly run Bridge Commander, unfortunately they have one massive weakness, Neelix's cooking. Though to be fair he is an existential threat to every system and crew member, rivalled only by Q.
CPU:
Pentium® II 300Mhz processor (Pentium® II 450Mhz processor recommended) or Athlon® processor
RAM:
64MB RAM
GPU:
3-D Hardware Accelerator (with 16MB VRAM)* 100% DirectX® 8.0a compatible 16MB video card and drivers
DX:
DirectX® 8.0a or higher (included)
OS:
US version of Microsoftâ Windows® 95 OSR2/98/ME/2000/XP operating system
STO:
650 MB of uncompressed hard disk space for game files; plus an additional 100 MB for Windows® swap file
Sound:
100% DirectX® 8.0a or higher compatible sound card and drivers
ODD:
Quad Speed CD-ROM drive (600 K/sec sustained transfer rate)
NET:
Internet (TCP/IP) and LAN (TCP/IP and IPX) play supported Internet play requires a 100% Windowsâ 95 OSR2/98/ME/2000/XP 28.8 Kbps modem
Recommended peripheral: 100% Microsoft®-compatible mouse, keyboard
NOTE: 100% Windows® 95/98/ME/2000/XP compatible computer system (including compatible 32-bit drivers for CD-ROM drive, video card, sound card and input devices.)
* A 100% DirectXâ compliant 3-D video card is required. Star Trek: Bridge Commander uses DirectXâ 8.0a to support 3-D hardware acceleration. Star Trek: Bridge Commander has been tested on many but not all of the major cards incorporating the chipsets listed below:
-nVidia™ Riva TNT and TNT2
-All nVidia™ GeForce chipsets
-3dfx™ Voodoo3, 4 or 5
-ATI® Rage 128
-All ATI® Radeon chipsets
-Matrox G400 & G550
-Kyro® 1 and 2
-Intel® i810e
-Trident Blade XP™
(Whistles though his teeth) Until you showed the Armored Voyager, fighting it, I wasn't sure if it was the Defiant Class ships or the Assimilation Cube. It is quite firmly the latter, the A-Cube is a nightmare beast that soak up damage and retaliate with ship slagging force. It must be several orders of magnitude worse than the cube from the Best of Both Worlds. No wonder it was taking out Defiant Class ships like they were clay pigeons. Starfleet's first anti-Borg ship was never meant to take on something on that scale.
It would be interesting to see how the Liberator from Blake's 7 would fair against starlet vessels such as the Defiant since it was considered to be a really powerful ship. I wonder if anybody has ever done a mod of it? I can remember when I used to play Klingon Academy people made some impressive mods, but never saw that one.
Oh no... today WILL be a good day to die. Don't let them assimilate you. 😄
My guess... without transphasic torpedoes... 10. Maybe 15. Maybe more. 😆
Wow, ok, I was wrong... they adapted. 😄 Holy crap... even 25 couldn't do it.
Wow, 4GB video card... impressive! My computer would have crashed ages ago.
I've built 2 computers, but that was over 20 years ago. It was fun. I'd like to see the video of you making your new computer.
What happens if you warp a defiant into the cube?