Vacuum-Ported Catch Can • Crankcase Vent: Keep It or Dump It? 👍🏼❓👎🏼 (M8 Sumping)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video I revisit the vacuum-ported catch can solution for venting the crankcase. In the last video (linked below), I experimented with a few different approaches for adding vacuum to the catch can and crankcase. Now I will give you an update on what vacuum and pressure changes I saw while maintaining highway speeds. Is this catch can solution viable for long-term use? Does it work for maintaining vacuum in the crankcase? Check out the video for all the details.
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00:00 Intro
00:13 Background: 8 Videos On Crankcase Venting (Playlist)
00:43 Catch Can With Vacuum
01:19 Two Viable Solutions
01:32 Option 1: Throttle Body Vacuum Port + Damper
01:45 Option 2: Tapped Intake Tube
02:03 Welcome & Introduction
02:24 Monitoring Vacuum On The Road
02:36 Road Results: Throttle Body Vacuum Port
03:52 Road Results: Tapped Intake Tube
04:35 Why Are The Results So Different?
05:07 What Does This Mean?
05:44 My Decision?
06:13 💭 Share Your Comments
06:38 👍🏼 Like & 🗣 Share
06:48 ✅ Subscribe & Enable All Notifications 🔔
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PLAYLIST: M8 Crankcase Pressure • Venting • Sumping
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#sumping #crankcase #externalbreather #m8 #ronsworkshop - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Are you using a crankcase vent? Have you tried a catch can, or some other variation on the theme? Let me know what you've done and how it's working.
Have you seen Blockhead’s crankcase vent? They route from breather bolts to transmission cover, and notched the transmission inner wall between the oil pan and that void with the breather hose.
Hey Josh - yes, I did see that although I missed the part where they notched the inner wall. If that’s the case and it makes use of that little rubber vent tube in the other compartment that should be viable. But I don’t want to notch anything while it’s still on the bike!!
@@RonsWorkshop says the guy that hasn’t hesitated to drill holes through this and that! 🤣
They made a follow up video that explained the notch. They realized it hadn’t made it into the original video and understandably received a lot of questions because it looked like a closed loop at that point.
🤣 I know, right!
Ok, I’m glad I didn’t just miss it in the original video.
@@RonsWorkshop I’d really like to see that video of his……. Oh, looked at that video, not even going to cut into the trans “case”…. Just so I can simply use the stock transmission vent that’s already there. I don’t like the idea of contaminating my transmission fluid with engine oil not to mention permanently damaging the transmission case.
Ron, I just wanted to drop a thank you for all the great information you are sharing. I think you’ve convinced me to go for the transmission cover breather setup and eliminate the potential headaches involved with the catch can! Keep it up man!
Hey Blackielude91 - thanks so much for the kind words! Let me know how your project goes, and if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
Thanks for the update Ron. I will Keep It Simple on my M8, transmission cover vent-check valve-catch can. It works....Thanks again for sharing your findings.
Hey T Luck - my pleasure! Sounds like a great plan…simple and effective = 👍🏼
Excellent video as usual Ron! I love the way your explain things and aren’t afraid to tell us when things didn’t work out the way you hope. After watching ALL of your videos I think I’m going to go with the vented top cover alone. Less things to break and I feel like the check valve there will relieve the pressure but allow a small vacuum should one present itself.
Hey Bick5402 - thanks for the kind words! Yep, that’s my favorite as well!
2017 , 107 ci , fitted crank case vent after watching your video . Working well , I'll leave it at that . Thank you , great vid 👍 dave ireland 🇮🇪
Hey Dave - thanks for the kind words! Yep, the ol’ original tranny top cover vent is 👍🏼👍🏼
Funny Story: I decided to attempt a similar DIY project utilizing a one way check valve. Somehow, when I clicked on the 3/16” diameter size check valve ordered on Amazon, instead of 1 check valve, I received a bag of 100! Now I need 99 more motorcycles to use up all of my surplus check valves.
And now there's a shortage of 3/16" check valves 🤣
Awsome video man! great testing, I think leaving it open to atmosphere without a check valve is the way id do it :)
Hi Bey - thanks for the encouragement! Yep, I’m feeling that way too. Or just using the original transmission top cover vent.
@@RonsWorkshop yes sorry thats what i mean. Transmition cover vent only :)
After watching all your solutions I personally feel as though the trans cover alone is the best because venting back into the breather or throttle body causes any moisture evaporated out of the crankcase to be introduced to the combustion chamber which could rob some power. So in summary, you had it right from the beginning
Hey Olend - yeah, that’s pretty much where I’m at too! I love the simple effectiveness of that transmission top cover vent.
That’s what I’m doing, too.
It definitely works well!
Sense I’m just venting Tran top cover on my 2017 ultra limited 107 stock pump should work better now that there is no pressure holding it back right ?
And thank you Ronsworkshop
Ron great videos and your work on sumping and crankcase venting. I have an early production 2019 Street Glide with the early, lower capacity oil pump with the potential for sumping. So to correct this, I decided to do a cam chest upgrade, and your transmission cover crankcase venting. For the cam chest, I went with the S&S cam and oil pump kit, the 465C cam, with intake and exhaust upgrades, and ThunderMax EFI. For the crankcase venting, went with 3/8” tubing, 3/8” check valve through the transmission cover, and venting to atmosphere through a filter (no catch can). Tearing the bike down, I was surprised at the amount of oil I found in the throttle body and old intake manifold. Then I used a boroscope to look at the top of the pistons. These were coated heavily with caked on oil. Found this surprising since the bike only had 3000 miles on it.
Project went well and bike runs great. After about 250 miles of hard riding, absolutely no evidence of oil in the throttle body intake. And the check valve and tubing is also clear of any oil or build-up. I’m sticking with the transmission top cover venting for now. Thanks
Hey Kenneth - thanks for the kind words and for sharing your project! I’m glad you’ve gotten sick good results. That’s crazy about the oil/carbon buildup after so few miles. How do you like that cam? With all the other upgrades I’m betting it’s now a totally different bike!
I’m not trying to get higher Hp or torque, just more low to midrange pull. The S&S 465C is a great bolt-in cam for that range. Used the Fueling heavy duty solid stock length pushrods which added some work to the project, but prefer the extra strength vs adjustable pushrods. With the ThunderMax EFI, upgraded to the V&H power duals head pipes for the looks and eliminated catalyst. This gave me the wide band oxygen sensor bungs for the ThunderMax to control the AFR. The ThunderMax is truly plug & play. And with x-cat, bike runs cooler with no backfiring ever. Engine has a strong pop-yer-neck pull from take-off through midrange. And engine runs smoother through entire RPM range. Loving it.
Nice! I want to research the ThunderMax EFI. Sounds promising.
Great content...new fan and sub.
Hey How 2 Wrench - thanks for the kind words!
I've reviewed dozens of videos on this topic and appreciate the detail you provide, Ron. I've purchased the parts to create my own M8 tranny cover vent and have a few questions/comments to either display my ignorance or add to our collective understanding:
1) I believe crankcase vacuum is created by offset compression and exhaust strokes (they are not balanced with intake and power between the two cylinders to maintain even crankcase pressure, thereby producing alternating pressure and vacuum states as well as the signature Harley potato, potato sound). Further, I understand the stock breather pathway has one way valves to allow escaping crankcase pressure but blocks air travel in reverse to allow for small intermittent vacuum to be developed as described above. Given this, I don't see how the intake system could possibly participate in any vacuum creation - in the crankcase. Intake vacuum may assist in scavenging air out of the crankcase when it is under pressure, but the second a vacuum is developed in the crankcase the breather valves would close cutting off access to intake vacuum. If I've missed something here, please enlighten me.
2) Trask provides a note along with their trans cover solution (CheckM8) warning owners of 2019 and earlier M8s that there is NO seal between the oil pump body and the crankcase inside the cam chest. (re: bulletin M1450, seal HD part nbr 62400205). The seal (provided on subsequent M8 models) prevents crankcase pressure entering the cam chest through the pinion bearing. Trask warns that oil MAY therefore be pushed out their CheckM8 tranny cover vent, although the note indicates their testing has provided good results.
3) My bike is a 2019 Road King built in May of 2019, which is the exact month Harley began providing the improved oil pump and cam plate. There is no way to determine whether the good pump is inside my bike without disassembly and visual inspection, although my experience on a recent 4500 mile trip from Michigan to Arizona and back provided anecdotal evidence that the good solution is not in place.
I hope this commentary is helpful to the community and I would appreciate feedback, especially if I have expressed anything that is in error. Keep up the good work Ron, your videos are enjoyable not only for their content, but for their clarity. I hate opening a ten minute video based on an interesting title only to listen to nine minutes of pap. Your videos are informative, concise and very much appreciated.
Hey Jeff - thanks for the input and the kind words!
I’ve heard both assertions - that the vacuum comes from the piston movement and/or that it comes from the airflow through the throttle body. I’m not sure which is correct, or if they both contribute…nor have I been able to measure a vacuum in the crankcase…but I’ve chosen to “hedge my bets” and use a check valve with the crankcase vent just in case a vacuum is present.
Regardless, I know that crankcase pressure is harmful and leads to many different problems, so my primary goal these days is to alleviate that pressure regardless of the vacuum presence.
Let me know how your crankcase vent goes!
And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
I know this is old now, but I am planning on doing the top cover mod and run the hose up to my Fuel Moto air cleaner cover. I also have Fueling head breathers coming in a couple of days. Thanks for this video series it was very informative. No fluff just data. Just the way I like and and how it should be. You got yourself another subscriber. I ran vent to atmosphere on the head breathers on my FXLRS and Street Glide 107. I hated the smell from the breathers. I learned a lot from both of those bikes. Now with my 128 Heritage Classic, I hope my new plan of attack to be the best solution. Will also be interesting to see how it works with the Fueling pump I will be installing in a couple of days. Will report back if I have any issues.
Thank you for the kind words! Here’s a link to a recent video that covers a few of the common questions around crankcase venting:
th-cam.com/video/JPI3AeMfYeg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=cxP8AWlRvdbH2znI
And definitely let me know how your project goes!
@@RonsWorkshop Just did the mod today. I decided to not run a valve. I installed the fitting to the back of the mounting plate for the air filter. We will see how it goes. Will be test riding it in a few days after a huge order of parts get in. When I bought it bike it already had a fuel moto 128 kit with d&d fat cat, fuel moto air cleaner and woods 22x cam. Going to be installing a man-o-war, fueling oil pump, fueling cam plate, fueling 472 cam, fueling hp+ lifters, s&s lifter cuffs, fueling solid pushrods (I hate adjustable pushrods which are currently installed), fueling gorilla rocker rods with arp studs, fueling head breathers, and a-1 oil pressure gauge. Bike was built to a small budget by a previous owner, its a 2018 and they didn’t even do a pump upgrade. So now I’m going though and building it up properly. Next will be a rekluse clutch, clutch basket and a grudge box to finish up the bullet proofing. Also for cooling I will be doing a mod that I did before that yielded great results on my old street glide. I use the radiators from a twin cooled with lower fairings. The heads will get oil from the factory port which will be cooled by the throttle side radiator. The bottom end will be cooled by the clutch side radiator using a sandwich adapter at the oil filter. Both radiators have fans which will be triggered by jagg temp switches at 200 degrees fahrenheit. Should keep the bike around 200 degrees when stopped and around 180 when the bike is on the move depending on ambient temp. I love doing builds. This is my 7th Harley. I think I have a problem lol!! But at least I only have one at a time.
@DjVendetta that’s going to be a solid setup!
@@RonsWorkshop yes it is.
Great video, as always. Thanks for all your work and research. Entertaining and very informative. I have a question, what do you think about putting a hole in the cover from the oil side to the middle section, allowing the crank case to vent through the transmission vent?
Hey Pete & Donna - that’s worth considering for sure. There is the possibility of gunk from the crankcase “polluting” the gearbox, so keep that in mind. And that vent tube on the gearbox side is pretty small so it won’t vent a lot of pressure very quickly. Let me know what you decide to do and how it goes…
And thank you for the kind words!
Good videos on this subject. Ive been doing a little testing on this as well. Have a 2020 RGL 114 that i installed a Feuling vented dipstick on after schooling myslef on the crank case pressure issue. I then fabricated an exteranl breather system into a catch can. Ive ran that for at least 6 or 7k miles now. Zero oil residue in the catch can. Just built up condensation. However, recently i took a 3 hour road trip and discovered that the vented dip stick puked out a lot of oil during my ride. After some research and a call to Feuling i discovered that Feuling recommends to run one or the other not both. Due to the potential for the vented dipstick drawing the oil out of the bike with and external breather set up. Im assuming for the lack of vaccume that it causes like your talking about . So sense the vented dip stick has pretty much eliminated the oil residue going into the intake im going to reverse course and re-install the breather lines back to the factory design.
Per Feulings reccomendation i alss took the dipstick apart and cleaned the filter. They said a saturated fikter could cause my issue as well.
To be clear, the oil level was half way to the full Hot mark while cold on the jiffy stand.
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for sharing the info on your setup! It seems that trying to run one or the other seems like a good next step, and then swap to the other one. Based on that you can determine which one you like best.
Hi Ron,
I've just come across your channel recently and appreciate all the investigation and testing that you do so we don't have too. I've watched the whole series of vids on the breather mod, crankcase vent, and vacuum. I also follow Kevin Baxter and enjoy his channel as well. With all that being said I'm not convinced at all that vacuum is even a thing for the intake and crankcase. I think this is being way over blown and taken out of context. If you remember your video a while back when you were running both mods with no concern about vacuum your bike was running like a scalded dog and you had no issues. After 40 years and counting with the Dept of Defense we live by one motto KISS! I'm currently running a DIY head breather on my 2020 RKS and plan on doing your trans mod along with a SE Torque cam install. I will not be running a check valve and I'm not running my hose up over the rear of the bike. I'm going to tuck my pod filter just under my left plastic heat shield over the rear cly. These are Harley's not SR71 Blackbirds lol. Keep up the good work.
Hey Vincent - thanks for the encouragement. I believe there’s a combination of legitimate problems as well as some excessive noise regarding these issues. I’m a fan of crankcase vacuum, but for me the main thing is alleviating the excess pressure. If there’s any vacuum, that’s a bonus. And yes, KISS is the way to go. Let me know how it goes with your project!
And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
Hey Ron,
I would like a sticker but I don't do any social media. This is actually the very first time I've responded to a TH-cam video lol. I wasn't even sure if I was signed in to do it. I totally agree with you about getting rid of the pressure. I never knew about putting a plastic bag or ballon over the oil tank cap port. I might try it on my 2020 to see what happens. Does it make a big mess with oil? I also have a 04 TC Roadking Classic that I did the head breather mod to and have had no issues with it. The main reason I want to add the trans mod to my RKS is the cam upgrade. I've read that guys that move up to stage 2 develope issues which I think is excessive crankcase pressure with a larger and longer duration cam profile.
You shouldn’t have a mess with the oil filler plastic bag trick. You could ease the cap off at first just to be sure.
And congrats on your first TH-cam comments! I’m honored to be a part of it.
TH-cam strips out the email address from comments, so I can’t provide it here. But if you visit my “About” page on TH-cam and then click on “View Email Address” you can contact me that way. Note: You have to be logged into TH-cam to see the email address. Here’s a link to the page: th-cam.com/users/RonsWorkshopabout
Ron, really appreciate all the work you have put into this. Question, did you ever take a pressure reading from the crankcase to see just how much pressure was building up? I think you could put a pressure gauge off the transmission cover vent to see how much pressure we are talking about, then go from there. I'm still not sold on needing vacuum. Thank you Sir!!
Hey Big88Country - thanks for the kind words! I didn’t measure the pressure in the crankcase, but it fills a ballon quickly! That would be an interesting experiment - I’ll add it to the list :)
@@RonsWorkshop Thanks Ron, I'd be interested in that number. Yeah, I saw your video on it filling up the bag. Keep going Brother, and we Appreciate what you do!
old school racers used to instal a bung on the headers with a 45° tube attached the the top end for vacuum - without having "vacuum leak" on the intake. add a vacuum pump - but i used intake tube to keep vacuum draw on this side of the butterfly valve. btw - that Amazon catch can is built well, the braket...not so much lol
Hey Jere - that exhaust bung truck is a good one for sure. Classic racer tech!
Yeah I’m with you on the catch can. The can is solid but the bracket…eh…
Hi Ron! So I've watched all your videos as well as others. Have to say first, you are like the leading authority on this very complex subject 😀 you've done more experimenting than anyone I can find, so thankyou!! My question is, I did the breather intake mod first, and then tackled the transmission cover mod. So, now that I've done the latter, what's your opinion on leaving, or reversing the intake breather mod?
Hey tdbrillo - thanks so much for the kind words! I’m so glad you find the info helpful. As to your question: the trade off with having both mods is that you remove any chance of crankcase vacuum (specifically the external breather mod removes it). But, from what I’ve been able to measure, that vacuum is very small and may not even be present. It’s just hard to tell. All of that to say I don’t believe it’s worth losing sleep over. The big benefit is alleviating that crankcase pressure, and you’ve also removed that oil from your intake - both big wins. Does that make sense?
@@RonsWorkshop yes, it makes perfect sense 😀 that is what I was hoping you might say, it's easy to lose sleep over this shit ha ha ha. In the end, I just want a solid, healthy motor. Thanks again so much for being so helpful, you ROCK 🎸 😎😀🤩
My pleasure - let me know how it goes!
Hey Ron, great stuff man! What about running the breather mod into the trans cover? Wouldn’t that keep the engine in a normalized atmosphere?
Hey Justin - thanks for the kind words! That's an option for sure. Because the ports in the intake are blocked you still wouldn't get any vacuum, but it would vent everything to the same place. I will likely do that on mine, but just T the lines together after exiting the transmission top cover.
Hey ron, I know I had already asked you a question about how much vacuum is too much etc. But I actually while rewatching this video came up with a possible solution that I'm kind of curious how it'll work..
You mentioned while using the vacuum port and damper setup, at sustained highway speeds you would start to get crankcase pressure build up well I think I may have some sort of a solution. Now this will cause the system to get a little more complicated so that is a downside but however here it goes.
If before the vacuum damper you set up some sort of a t fitting so that some of that pressure can be bypassed through a check valve, then vent to atmosphere like one of your earlier videos. this could possibly fix that pressure issue without sacrificing vacuum at lower RPM ranges. The check valve would stay closed one under vacuum obviously, and would allow to be opened to relieve the excess pressure during a sustained highway speed.
Let me know what you think I kind of want to see the system get made very well because I think this is a great benefit of these new bikes and these new engines.
Thanks for contributing to the discussion again! I think the pressure I observed at highway speeds could be alleviated by opening if the damper more to let more of that vacuum through. I didn’t do any further tests (yet) but that could address the problem. Your idea could work as well - of course it introduces another variable, but it could be worth trying if the damper adjustment doesn’t address it. Let me know if you try anything.
Good stuff. I have a 2020 with the upgraded pump but Im going to do the trans cover mod anyway. Also going to reroute the breathers. Any reason you didnt cut off the excess hose barb sticking down under the cover?
No particular reason, but on the next one I would. I’d also go with at least 1/4” fittings just to provide even more airflow.
Thanks for the vids, other question what is your rpm without throttle?
What Mapping kind do you use? v&h fuel pack/ dynojet/ screaming eagle?
Hey Alpenrepublik Enduro Mtb - I appreciate the kind words! Once warmed up the bike idles at about 950 rpm. I’m using the screamin’ eagle pro street tuner with a Harley-Davidson map that’s for the Stage III build (I’m running Stage III).
Ron,the trans cover i was referring to is the T-Man setup.It seems to me that the crankcase would be pressurising with this system
Ahh ok. T'-man's solution has a vent that they install, and mine does too, so in both cases that pressure would be vented.
Thinking of routing the oil blow-by from the intake to the trans cover instead of a catch can. Along with a trans cover vent .......
Hey Steve - you could definitely do that, or even T it into the transmission top cover vent line near the pod filter so it would end up venting out.
Love these videos and thanks for your content and all the updates to see how things go. I do have 1 question, in your opinion (or maybe you were informed of this at some point) why is 8-9 inches of vacuum at idle too much? Many cars today (while larger engines) are usually running upwards of 15 inches at vacuum at idle without issues. I'm wondering why this would be an issue on even a scaled down engine. Was the engine running strange or was it too much flow at idle and wasn't properly filtering out the most? Just trying to figure out what'll be the best option.
Again great content. Please keep up the great work.
Hey AudiLoveS4 - thanks so much for the kind words. I wasn’t able to find any sold info on “how much is too much vacuum” and I wasn’t comfortable just going with it at that level. Knowing that too much vacuum can cause problems, I didn’t want to fox one thing and introduce other problems. So, maybe 8-9” is ok. I just couldn’t confirm that. Thanks for your input as well!
@@RonsWorkshop thanks for the quick reply, and good to know. I might try to get a hold of some of my local Harley techs and see what they have an idea of how much vacuum might be too much
Let me know what you learn!
Hey thanks for all your awesome information!! I do have a question…I’m wanting to tap that trans vent cover but thinking if adding solid bolts where the intake breathers are to completely eliminate the possibility of vapor into the intake. Think that’s a good idea or just keep it original just in case?? Thanks again!!
Hey Michael 6.0 - thanks for the kind words!
Note that if you do both mods you remove the chance for getting a vacuum in the crankcase (the breather bolt mod would eliminate the oily residue in the intake but also remove the potential for vacuum in the crankcase). You can either do a check for sumping (th-cam.com/video/F2N7kwCspQE/w-d-xo.html) or you could just do a simple check to see if you’ve got positive crankcase pressure (and almost certainly we all do). Just remove the oil filler cap, fire up the bike, and either stretch a balloon or tape a plastic bag around the filler hole - if it inflates you know you’ve got pressure that could be relieved. I’ve tried to measure the vacuum that comes from the breather bolts venting to the throttle body and I couldn’t detect any. (Maybe my gauge isn’t sensitive enough, maybe there isn’t any, maybe it’s higher at highway speeds…etc.) Vacuum is very beneficial but more important in my opinion is venting the pressure out.
Let me know if that helps…and if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
I'm using DK Custom's EBS and catch can modified to fit my Harley Extreme AC on my '19 street glide. No issues
Hey Edward - thanks for sharing that! I like the quality of the DK Custom products. They've got some great stuff.
And thanks @@RonsWorkshop for the great videos. You put some real research and time into your decisions. Ride safe.
My pleasure - I appreciate the kind words!
Hi Ron. Thanks for all the good knowledge drops. Wanted to see if you heard of anyone, or if you tried, teeing and venting the head breathers directly into the crank case cover, and then venting out of the cover with your check valve and filter combo? Thanks.
Hey Mario - thanks for the kind words! I haven't tried that exact combo, but I seem to remember comments from viewer(s) that mentioned that. It seems to me that it would work, BUT be aware you may be introducing contaminants into the crankcase that would have been vented into the throttle body and then burned. Let me know if you give it a try...
@RonsWorkshop Thanks for the reply Ron. According to the Blockhead Mechanic, the oil is not contaminated, but merely oil passing past the umbrella valves as a result of over-pressure?? (11:20 mark on their 2nd video) (I'm not a mechanic so I don't know how true that is, but I will keep digging). They take that Blow-by, route it to the gearbox cover, but I don't really want to grind my metal out, or share air space with gearbox, which is why I thought just placing another tube adapter and the check/filter would take care of the pressure. Those guys don't even use a check valve, it free-breathes, but I feel as though having the check valve would be a better choice in trying to allow the engine that same pressure as stock. Seems ok, was hoping to get your opinion on the pressure aspects of my proposed.
Currently have a 2021 114 FLHTP, and have by-passed blow-by out to a filter breather. Has worked OK, I guess, better than in my combustion chambers! On long highway trips, and hard-riding, I just need to put a diaper around the filter and that seems to keep the oily air spit manageable lol, but need a better solution. Thanks again!
Hey Mario - I’m no expert either, and I won’t say he’s wrong. I just err on the side of caution. It’s safe to say that whatever you see coming out of the pod filter with your current mod will end up in the crankcase. Give it a shot and see what you find! It’s easy enough to reroute things if needed.
Great stuff. New sub. Bell rung.
I’m so glad this was helpful! Be sure to check the follow-up as well: th-cam.com/video/JPI3AeMfYeg/w-d-xo.html
I ended up buying the Trask CheckM8 trans cover. Funny thing tho, shortly after installing it (while it was sitting in the garage during cold winter) my first ride ended up with a check engine light on. I thought great, what is this crap.. then after riding around for an hour I stopped to eat something, and after finishing I fired up the bike and the light was out (sigh of relief). So I was pretty calm and kinda sorta happy with the addition of this.
I had purchased a catch can from DK custom products to use with the Trask cover and they kept bugging me about getting the plumbing to vent the head breather bolts too. (HEY you left this behind....!!!) I wrote them and told them I think I had covered the issue unless they knew something I didn't. They wrote me back and said there is still pressure coming from the breather bolts even with the trask cover, AND that it had toxic nasty oily oxygen depleted air that was getting into the intake...
I think we had this conversation way back about the idea that you have this big air box and these two tiny little breather bolts that expel a minimal amount of air, and that sucking whatever comes out is about equal with the air cleaner sucking in something if you fart while sitting in the seat of your bike. Anyway, the question of vacuum at the intake via the breather bolts still escapes my thinking when I approach it logically. I can understand that the breather bolts might still put air out, and maybe even fill a plastic bag, but your vids don't show an appreciable amount of oil at the breather bolts (after installing your own transmission vent) and the idea of poisoning the intake air and causing the engine to breathe toxic fumes still seems largely comparable to the fart and intake sucking in a few micro grams of fart gas if the wind is blowing in that direction.... In other words, tho there is pressure, just how much? AND is it really carrying all that nasty crap the horror stories glorify, especially after reducing the crank pressure with the trask cover?
Then there seems to be some idea that a positive pressure coming out of these breather bolts which are one way valves, can help create the vacuum necessary for the crank case.
After reading up on the history of the PVC system I am not so convinced that the breather bolts are the source for the vacuum if they are responsible for venting excess pressure.
www.vehicleservicepros.com/service-repair/underhood/article/21198914/living-in-a-vacuum-crankcase-ventilation-system-testing
All vacuum that I can determine is thru the throttle body/intake manifold, when the piston takes the down stroke to draw the engines fuel and air mixture. I can't see any loss or benefit in taking out or adding the breather bolt bypass when it comes to vacuum, being that the two small tubes coming out of the breather bolts are coming off of one way valves that are supposed to vent pressure that comes from the crankcase and not draw air back inward.
Can you explain how (when you drilled and tapped the big sucker for the bypass), that you compromised the vacuum in a way that I can compare to the scenario I have described with the one way valves? DK customs is saying I need to vent whatever air is coming out of these breather bolts, but what you might be suggesting is that will compromise the vacuum necessary for the crank case cavity to do what is necessary for reducing oil foaming and to draw the oil back down from the cylinder walls during the piston stroke. Isn't the oil ring responsible for wiping the cylinder wall?
I've watched all of Kevin Baxters vids and there isn't any real detailed information on the crank case pressure and vacuum scenario that explains the way the vacuum in the crank is created or maintained, nor an inclusive explanation as to how the umbrella valves in the head configuration works to expel pressure and maintain vacuum integrity that I could glean form the vids he makes. There is nothing I can find that details how Harley engineered these motorcycles to comply with the EPA and any real world solutions to how this could be solved from a manufacturing point of view and so when you talk to a tech at Harley, they simply warn you to not drink the kool aid that comes from watching You Tube videos.
To make a long story short, there seems to be a big hesitation when discussing these things because no one wants to take responsibility for maintaining any ONE idea as reality. This leaves the buyer to weed thru all these different suggestions by mechanics and manufacturers to simply sell and buy stuff at a risk without any kind of guarantee or real understanding of what REALLY happens in the real world according to design and function. IT all comes down to what works for you and your motorcycle IF.. you have the knowledge and experience of a mechanical engineer. IF you don't you can watch hours of You Tube videos and run to the nearest retailer that sells the best ointment for your worries.
Sorry, not trying to be a whiner, just banging my head against the wall here because there is no ONE place to go in order to get answers to questions without spending a large amount of money to get expert counsel. Usually everyone is too busy. Harley tells me I can void the warranty if I try to solve the problem of carbon buildup that takes place because they have decided to slowly self destruct my motor because they intentionally dump the garbage that comes from the crank case into the intake manifold.
Hey Manonymous108 - good to hear from you again! You bring up good points for sure. I think the main question I see is how adding the external breather mod could compromise the potential for crankcase vacuum. That's a great question. And to be clear - I'm no expert on this. I just try things and try to share what I learn. But that being said, as I understand it, the intake airflow across those ports in the throttle body generates the vacuum in question. By blocking those off, the vacuum source is gone. Theoretically. Is vacuum generated by the movement of the pistons? It seems to me that because the air volume in the crankcase is constant (assume no venting), there would be momentary vacuum on the upstroke, but momentary pressure on the downstroke. It seems to me that they would cancel one another out resulting in no constant pressure or vacuum being generated by piston movement alone. Maybe I'm missing something? Now add to that normal blow-by and you end up with positive pressure in the crankcase, and then the need arises to vent it out. Just doing a brain dump. Not sure if it helps at all. For Kevin's videos - if you haven't seen it yet, check out the one from March 11 of 2021 where he covered several topics and answered questions. He covers several aspects of these topics in that one.
@@RonsWorkshop I really appreciate your talent in putting these video's together, but I still fail to see the logic in the idea of vacuum being compromised. If you look at the history of the pvc system, the relative components that add to the positive crank case pressure and the manifold vacuum can be affected by the state of the working components. Bear with me here. The vacuum for all of the accessories that were engaged in the cars of the past, such as wipers, spark advance in the distributor all came from the vacuum that was a result of the intake system where the pistons drawing in air created the manifold vacuum pressure. Carbureted motors used certain sized jets in the carburetor based on the amount of vacuum pressure that was going to draw the right amount of fuel for combustion. When vacuum was compromised the engine would run rough. In the link I sent you there are factors that can add to this condition. IF the engine is a big set of lungs that breathe in and exhaust out the build up of internal pressures or vacuums have to come from one of these sources.
In the intake system you have valves with guides and seals that are supposed to keep the air coming in and directed to the combustion chamber. IF these seals are compromised, then you get pressures that seep past these seals and end up in places that are not supposed to work with these. This is why I think no one wants to touch on this subject in a general way because each engine is different in its performance and integrity of parts. IF all intake air stays in its place it goes to the cylinder and is exploded and then pushed out the exhaust. If there are leaks then air gets into the engine and or leaks out places like valve covers and compromises the breathing system. Since the crank case is open to oil flow throughout the engine pushing oil thru chambers that go thru the head and back down into the crank case this system can be weakened by leaks that are in valves or gaskets etc. The oil pump has to draw oil from a closed chamber an in a sense has to create some vacuum if the chamber is sealed tightly. As the pump pushes oil thru the chambers it is supposed to go thru then it would make sense that the vacuum is neutralized by its return to the oil chamber, but that is probably not the case. In that link that I sent you on the PVC story there is a part where they plug the dipstick in order to measure vacuum. This tells me there is vacuum that is maintained in the crank case, but then there is also crank case pressure, where does that come from? Some of it is blow by past the rings and small leaks in the valve guides and seals, and some of it is in the expansion of air that takes place when the engine heats up. Water condenses in heat changes and affects the oil quality and evaporates as it gets hot and moves out the crankcase breather. In the old days they had air tubes that extended down below the engine to scoop air and help it move the dead air within the crank case and it spit out on the ground, which is what I grew up with in the late 50's and 60's causing the grease strip in the middle of all the highways and rural streets. Later the pvc system was created to move the air back into the crank case and any water that didn't vaporize was found in your oil change.
I'm just thinking out loud here from reading the stuff available and I still am not clear as to how they determine how much pressure or vacuum is normal in an engine. Too much is gonna damage seals, rings etc. Too much vacuum is gonna damage seals, rings, etc. There has to be some safety system that relieves excess of both.
This system is not in my opinion reliant on two very small holes in the head of a Harley that is supposed to vent but not be the source of vacuum. The vacuum source is deeper than the throttle body and includes that opening but is not going to be critical of two tiny holes that are part of a safety system to blow excess pressure out of the crank case. Take a look at this video that kinda explains the umbrella valve that the breather bolts are part of, th-cam.com/video/mV4xKsDsPWg/w-d-xo.html This video shows that there is not a vacuum pulling the oil out of the breather tube but the bad umbrella valve is responsible for pushing the oil past the valve and into the intake. When you look at the intake outside of the injectors, you can change the volume of air available by changing the air cleaner box or you could run the motor without the air cleaner and there would be hardly ANY pull on those little tubes, but the bike will run just fine. So I don't think any little alteration outside of the throttle body is going to have an appreciable effect upon the vacuum system of the crank case. Just my thoughts, but I am SO willing to hear a technical explaination that puts me in my place and clearly explains how the system works or is supposed to work and whether the catch can idea is good or bad.
Here also is what Dwayne wrote after asking him at DK Customs.
There is in fact a sort of PCV system in place... Within your rocker boxes there are valves that meter crankcase pressure within the head breather system. Twin cam and sportster models call these umbrella valves I believe on the M8 they are just called head Breather Valves if you wish to look those up.
The intake does not pull vacuum within the head breather system. Positive crankcase pressure is present here.
The goal of a head breather system is to ensure only clean, oxygen rich air is in the intake. It doesn't alter or reduce crankcase pressure in any way.
Think of it this way... in stock form, your head breather system has open ended tubes pointing into the intake. While there is a venturi in the air box or there is no suction here for the head breather hoses (think of a drinking straw).
Those hoses are blowing the crankcase vapors into your air box/intake... An external breather system simply re-routes those hoses to the atmosphere.
As a test you can do for yourself, attach hoses to your head breather system and briefly collect those hoses to a balloon. In about 20 seconds the balloon will grow to the size of a grapefruit with or without the trans vent. Keep in mind this is entirely outside of the air box (no vacuum).
With a trans vent, the balloon attached to the head breather system may expand at a slightly slower rate but it will still expand and be filled.
What is inside that balloon is oil vapor, condensation, crankcase gasses, etc... All of that displaced volume within the air box... This means less oxygen intake.
Venting at the other end of the crankcase can reduce head breather pressure but can not, in any way, eliminate it.
Will it reduce the head breather pressure enough to prevent liquid oil carry over? possibly.
We have not tested any venting systems but it must be understood, they can only serve to reduce the volume that is passing thru the head breather system... not eliminate it.
Every bike is different... some bikes pass up to 1 qrt of oil thru the head breather system within 1500 miles. Venting the crankcase on such a bike wouldn't make a noticeable difference in oil carry over here.
Many bikes produce little to no oil carryover. The vent may be just enough to eliminate the oil carryover on those bikes.
It is not a matter of other products failing to do what a head breather system does... It must be understood that the product you have, and the External breather systems we offer, serve different purposes.
The trans and other venting systems claim reduce or eliminate the oil carryover. I am sure that in all circumstances crankcase pressure is reduced and in some cases eliminated. if that is what you wish to achieve, those products are great.
If you want to re-direct the head breather system from venting into the intake, you need an external breather system.
I do understand this is a hot topic but this is something consider IF you are hoping to prevent oil feeding into the intake....
No one making a vent product that reduces crankcase pressure will guarantee you that no oil carryover will be present in the intake because is an impossible claim to make.
With an External Breather system, there is not oil venting into the intake. This is not debatable.
Ride Safe - Ride Free
Dwayne
Thanks Ron for you discussion and videos.
Thanks so much for sharing that info from Dwayne @ DK Custom. You've covered a lot of ground...I won't try to respond to everything, but there are two points I'll comment on: 1) Regarding vacuum from the breather bolts: in my case, with the Arlen Ness intake, the two breather bolts are ported to the intake just outside throttle body. It's always been my understanding that the potential vacuum would come from this, as the air passed over those holes and thereby generated vacuum. 2) I agree with Dwayne's sentiment that while venting the crankcase may not eliminate all the pressure, it does at least put a dent in it. It's also now my position that priority 1 is relieving the crankcase pressure and if you end up with some amount of vacuum, that's a bonus. (Read: I won't loose sleep over using a crankcase vent and external breather mod at the same time.) Good discussion indeed. Thanks for contributing great information, insight, and thought-provoking questions!
@@RonsWorkshop Thanks for all your videos and laying the groundwork for my interruptions and skepticism..
My pleasure - and I appreciate your honest input for sure! Critical thinking is far to rare these days.
Ron,i noticed a system on You Tube recently where the Transmission cover, where you had the breather outlet on the modified tranny cover,had two inlets attached to it and the hoses from these were run to the breather bolts on the heads.Wouldnt this just feed breather pressure back into the crankcase and increase the problem ??
Hey Brett - if the heads were vented to the transmission top cover without an outlet, it would maintain the crankcase pressure. There would need to be some vent to the atmosphere to allow that pressure to escape. Otherwise it would eliminate the oily gunk from the intake but not release any crankcase pressure. But a modification of that theme would be viable!
Hi Ron
i installed the heavy breather arlen mod
i planned to to do allso the transmission cover
but i see all kind of comments and your answers to them
i made mistake ?? should i return to normal breather mod and do just the trans ? or both is ok with no further problems ???
Hello! There are lots of opinions about all of this, but with all that I’ve tried I believe that the main objective is venting the pressure from the crankcase and the secondary benefit is retaining a vacuum in the crankcase. I haven’t been able to confirm vacuum in the crankcase without applying external vacuum, so I don’t think you should be concerned about doing both the breather mod and the crankcase vent. Let me know if that helps.
In drag racing some tie the ccv hose to the header collector.
The collector creates a little vacume on the hose which aids in evacuation of the crank case.
Hey Steve - that’s a great racer trick for sure!
@@RonsWorkshop I have this dilemma now. Not sure what I will do. I have bought a Y and 2 NPT to hose barbs. I have a 2014 ultra. Just had the engine built. I don't want to run the ccv through the engine. I have a 2 into 1 into 2 head pipe. I might try a siphon tube in the merge (X) part of the head pipe. Not sure if that would be the right area. Or what angle to introduce the tube, how to shape the inside. Flush, extended, how far, cut on an angle? I need someone who knows how this should be.
Hey Steve - I haven’t done that mod myself, but if I was to try it I’d try to put it at an angle with the opening inside the pipe facing the outlet. If it could be flush inside that would probably be optimal, but you may not have enough wall thickness. My plan B would be straight in with minimal extension into the pipe.
Let me know how it goes and what you learn!
@@RonsWorkshop I will. It may be a while. I'm working a lot of hrs. And days. But it will have to be done. I think I can tig it, flush with about a 45°. Will be what I shoot for.
Placement in the X part will be my concern. I'm thinking center of the flat portion. Not sure. Or each individual head pipe to each head banjo bolt.
crazy you don't have at least 10x the subscribers
Hey Silva Jay - thanks for the encouragement! It’s a journey for sure :)
I have a 2017 Ultra Limited with a 107 M8. I have been really looking into venting the oily residue back into the crankcase down into that cover. However, I was also thinking about drilling a second port and running a vent tube back behind the swing arm pivot like you did. I like the idea of the check valve on the vent tube. As this will allow vacuum to still be in the case.
If I do what I’m talking about will I need to adjust the vent tube with some kind of valve to adjust the amount of vacuum that is being Introduced to the crankcase?
Hey WORKHARD&RIDEHARDER - would you use the throttle body vacuum port? If you do then my opinion is it would be good to have a valve of some sort like I used for controlling that vacuum. But I’m not an expert at this - I’ve just done some experiments and tried a few things out.
I’m also unclear on where you’d run the extra line from and to.
@@RonsWorkshop I was thinking of running the crankcase vent tubes together then down to the trans cover where it can drain back into the crankcase. I would drill a second hole for a vent tube to allow the crankcase to vent to the atmosphere with a check valve and a filter on that tube. This would allow the oil to drain back into the oil sump and would allow positive pressure to vent out but would also allow any vacuum to stay in the crank case using the check valve.
I would not have a port coming from the intake. Only from the factory crankcase vent tubes down to the trans cover over the crank case portion.
That’s an interesting idea! I think it’s worth trying - let me know if you give it a go. That could be a great option for sure.
Hi Ron, I’ve been following your crankcase pressure journey. My 2017 Road King started pumping oil from the factory intake about three seasons ago…approx 10-12k miles on the engine at that time. I had the same issue on my older twin-cam Street Glide too. (That I solved, using an external breather.)
So far, my current bike has resisted my attempts to fix the intake oil puke issue. I’ve tried several fixes, including…venting the head breathers to atmosphere, running a vented dip stick, and running both together. Nothing has worked and oil continues to pool in the intake, trip from the air filter, and splatter all over my saddle bag, side cover, and exhaust. It’s not catastrophic amount, but it is annoying.
At this point, I’m wondering the following…a. could the umbrella valves in my heads be malfunctioning and allowing excessive oil flow or pressure that’s blowing oil into the intake? b. if so, why didn’t the dip stick vent also show signs of oil? I’m puzzled by this.
I would assume that the M8 (like other HD twins) does all of its crankcase breathing through those two head breathers? Therefore, crankcase pressure should be very similar to the pressure in the valve covers at those umbrella valves/breathers? Right? Why didn’t the dip stick vent (which is about 3/8” allow that pressure to vent? Then I realized, isn’t the M8 a “dry sump” motor like all previous Harley twins? As a dry sump, the engine sump and the oil tank are two separate spaces. (My understanding of the phenomenon of “sumping,” is that engine oil collects in the engine sump (where it should not be) instead of in the oil tank, where it should.) Therefore, the really wouldn’t be any benefit to venting the oil tank space…because the pressure problem is in the separate engine/crankcase space. Does that make sense to you?
I’m going to try your vented “transmission” cover fix next…based on the idea that that third chamber that is exposed is, in fact, the crankcase. That should, theoretically, provide pressure relief to the engine and reduce or eliminate the oil being blown into the intake. What do you think?
As a little background info you may or may not know…in automobiles, crankcase pressure was traditionally run to atmosphere via a “road draft tube,” essentially a hose run from the block or valve cover directly to the bottom of the car. Early emissions controls dealt with this by using a PCV system…positive crankcase ventilation…essentially what you were playing with in your vacuum/ catch can experiments. These systems typically routed crankcase vapor/pressure to the intake manifold using a control valve (a PCV valve) to modulate crankcase pressure and manifold pressure. In theory, you were trying to do the same thing with that modified pet cock you installed between the throttle body port and your catch can. The problem was, yours was fixed and couldn’t adapt to the variable pressure generated between manifold and crankcase on a running engine. A proper PCV valve (tuned to that particular set of parameters) might have worked better. I suspect this is why HD has chosen the simpler method of routing vapor to the filter, vs. the manifold side of the throttle body…you don’t need to design as elaborate a system?
This is just a guess on my part. I’m not an engineer or any kind of expert and I’m certainly not dissing all your hard, thoughtful work and knowledge. I’m just offering this up in the spirit of mutual interest and experimentation.
Hey John - I'm no expert either, but I believe you're on the right track with how you're thinking about things. I'm curious what you'll find with the transmission top cover vent. However, it does seem that the vented dipstick should have alleviated that pressure as well. Please do let me know how it goes, and thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!
@@RonsWorkshop Ron, I actually did the DIY tranny cover vent yesterday. It worked out pretty well...but, those loc-tited bolts are a pain. My cover is aluminum and it has a metal sandwiched gasket underneath that covers the crankcase completely. I needed to drill a small breather hole in that - no problem. Otherwise, I drilled and tapped a 1/4NPT hole for my brass fitting, reassembled everything, routed a section of 3/8" hose up and over to the r/h frame behind the side cover, and I'm good to go. I still need one of those check valves to complete everything, but so-far, so good. When I get a chance to road-test everything over the next few weeks, I'll give you a holler with the results. Thanks again for you videos and be safe out there.
Excellent! Looking forward to the update.
On my TC, I don’t think it has excessive air turbulence in the crankcase. I believe the air is pushed through the crankcase pushrod tubes to the heads and finally the one way check valves which diverts the hot oil misted air through the a/c and ultimately into the throttle body to be burnt in the combustion chambers… my goodness…that’s one long sentence. Anyhow, the problem is that the misty oil crap turning to oil carbon buildup. For me, the simple a/c bypass and a DK catch can is the solution for the TC. Meanwhile… back at the ranch…
I’ve ridden a lot of M8s, and biggest audible difference compared to the TC… the TC has noisy valve train (Tic). Most M8 have a whirling sound (as if it’s moving a lot of air around in the crankcase). I’ve been told the whirling sound is the result of additional valves and associated rocker-arms.
I’m still waiting before I procure a M8. I’ve been wanting a fat boy for many years. That will be my next acquisition.
My question, I’ve noticed the MoCo changed the dipstick configuration on the 2022 M8s.
I wonder what drove the change and what other “theories” or processes may have also occurred because of the change.
I have not ridden any 2022s yet, but assume they will still exhibit the same internal engine sounds… but can’t help but wonder if the dipstick change maybe addressed the sound.
HD is evolutionary… constantly changing in order to meet the ever evolving government regulations.
You do a great job presenting your personal experience. Thanks.
Hey 2TRDGTF1 HD SGS - I haven’t seen the 2022 dipstick setup yet. Now I’m curious :)
I definitely noticed that whirring sound before the Stage III kit, but it’s so loud now all hear is that awesome lumpy idle.
And thanks for the kind words!
I've heard others say the whirring sound is caused by the counterbalancer. But it could be a combination of moving parts.
Hey Josh - thanks for the input!
Blockhead Moto created a solution that allowed the oil in the throttle body to be passed through to the transmission. Basically killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
Hey NoLimitzz9 - yep - just be sure to watch that second video of his because he didn’t mention in the first one that he notched the top of housing to let it vent.
So I'm doing this on a car.. one pipe straight to a vented can and I get alot of smoke/mist from condition, if builds up in traffic and comes in the cabin so trying to work out away of stopping the smoke
Sounds like there may be something else going on.
I still think you should go back to your diy top cover. And diy it more by drilling one more hole and routing the breather vent tubes into that.
Yeah I'm pretty much at that point. I could just T the breather lines into the one crankcase vent line and skip drilling another hole.
@@RonsWorkshop badass brother! I wanna see your final results of that if you go that route. Like the crack pressure tests in rpm’s etc. You’ve done the most in depth testing of these mods I actually seen someone who’s done them on TH-cam do. Appreciate the time your taking with us to sess out the actual best working solutions
@@RonsWorkshop oh how’s that gonna work? Which crank case vent line? I think one more hole on the top cover, T the breather tubes to a line to that with no check value and just use your previous hole with line check value and catch can the same as you did before. It will release pressure and hold vacuum.
I could T into my transmission top cover vent from this video: th-cam.com/video/U6gOhbRQrwE/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the encouragement!
Have you thought about venting head breathers into the exhaust? That would supply the vacuum. I’m wondering if there would be enough oil to smell.
Hey dpf - that’s definitely worth considering. In my case it’s not a lot of oil residue so maybe there wouldn’t be much smell, if any. It might gunk up over time. But that might just be worth trying. Thanks for sharing the idea!
And routing it through the catch can would filter out the oily mist as well!
I’m going to try it myself. I’ve read it’s important to get a 45 degree angle for proper vacuum. Drag racers use this technique.
Excellent! Let me know how it goes.
The bit I'm struggling with is how all the pipes are connected. Just to clarify, I maybe wrong thought.
You are running a pipe from the crank case to a catch can then out to the atmosphere.
Then you are running a pipe from the head which would normally go into the air intake also into the catch can?
Then another pipe into either the filter intake side or intake manifold side with a regulator to create a negative pressure. But I'm struggling to work out where the negative pressure is placed, is it on to the catch can via a T with the pipe that comes off the head?
Hey Orange Manstan - I totally get why you might be confused! There’s a lot going on there. One line goes from the transmission top cover vent to the catch can. Another line goes from the external breather mod to the catch can. And the catch can outlet is ported to a (potential) vacuum source. The regulator is in the outlet between the catch can and the vacuum source. Does that make sense?
@@RonsWorkshop thanks Ron, it does make sense. The way Harley seems to do it is with the breathers going straight into the open bell mouth. I doubt this creates a lot of vacuum I suppose similar to your connection just after the air filter. The only thing I'd say is that you are splitting the vacuum between the area at the top of the head and the crank case where as Harley doesn't seem to have a vacuum on the crank case unless the top of the head outlet is the same thing. If this is the case then it sounds good to me. Only thing I'd say about placing the vacuum pipe on the inlet manifold could this affect the mixture at all? Maybe not.
I don’t think there would be any noteworthy change in the mixture. The catch can should do a good job of separating any oil from the air before it hits the intake flow.
What i have done is i installed a crankcase breather with a check valve and ran the intake oil breathers back to the transmission cover oil pan side just like the breather and i seem to be having good results any thoughts
Hey Andy - so you’ve got the breather mod venting to the crankcase and the crankcase venting to atmospheric through a check valve? I think that’s a viable setup and one I’m planning to try.
@@RonsWorkshop yes sir that is what i did and it seems to be working extremely well on both short rides and long and i seem to stay a stedy vacuum and only drop out under hard acceleration
Excellent!
Does anyone ever wonder about people who buy a brand new Harley Davidson an never do any mods? No Stage 1,2,3 or4 and no breather bypass or pressure release? Do they ever notice the problems or performance issues? I have my 7th Harley and it is a 2019 Tri Glide Trike. I just bought it a month ago. I am waiting until i get my bonus at work in April for my stage 1 and when I do that, I will do the tranny cover mod and the breather bypass mod. I did the Stage 1 and breather bypass on my 2012 Street glide 103 and I loved it for the 11 years I owned the bike.
I do wonder! I’m sure there are plenty who leave it as-is and get lots of miles. But if I know about an issue I’ll address it!
Let me know how your stage I goes and the other mods too!
Using A1cycles vented dip stick , not sure if it helps or not but very , very little oil in the intake All though I didn’t check the intake before changing so no data to go by
Hey Monte Krueger - thanks for sharing your setup and results!
@@RonsWorkshop forget to mention my bike is a twin cam 103
Ok let me know how it goes. I’m not sure if that transmission top cover configuration is any different?
I've been thinking on it and it's physically impossible to have a vacuum and over pressuring in the same chamber and the problem that we're experiencing is overpressuring and with the overpressuring if the oil pump required a vacuum we would already have a problem with the oil pump the question is, does the oil pump need a pressure on the oil tank to receive an adequate amount of oil.
Hey Grim Shadow - I believe the oil pump should be able to function fully with no pressure on the tank - but that’s just a guess. If there’s pressure in the crankcase and/or sumping, that could cause aeration and thereby decrease the pump’s efficiency.
Awesome thank you 👍
I have a 2017 ultra limited 107 10,00 miles on it so I keep catch can and and put vacuum from crankcase to intake vacuum port
Cause u can’t vacuum bout ends can you or will it vacuuming against each other
Ported catch can one in and one out y split hose fitting for vacuum crankcase to intake port two in to one on breather hose to catch can maybe damper valve in between catch can an y fitting to control vacuum on breather to not fight against each other
Hi Ron I’m Robert and Igor My very first bike I really don’t understand the science to all this like you would I have reached out to a lot of people no response I no I need oil pump cause 2017 ultra limited not having any problems lil oil on catch can I just want to get as many miles as I can all stock Reinhardt slip ons and power vision Turner that it I’m a poor boy lol and thank you for your videos George Bryce talks about vacuum and ring seal ring seal is life of motor I would think that maybe catch can for breather bolts and crank vacuum to its self I’m very stock on what to do
Hi Robert - if you add a crankcase vent you’ll address the biggest problem, even if you just do the basic vent with no catch can. I covered that in this video: th-cam.com/video/U6gOhbRQrwE/w-d-xo.html
I hope that helps!
Should stock oil pump work better now that pressure is gone
Probably yes, as the oil could be less aerated.
Hi Ron, thanks for all the great videos and the time and invested to keep us all informed. I have a venting question; I had asked you about venting the crankcase through the transmission vent, and you pointed out the same concern I had about cross-contamination. I had gotten the idea from another youtuber ( th-cam.com/video/bIyaV8KP8HI/w-d-xo.html ) . I really like your catch can under vacuum, but I have a question. What do you think about eliminating the catch can by putting two fittings in the transmission cover over the crankcase? Rerouting the head breathers together and tee off to one of the fittings, and put vacuum to the other fitting. Would that give the same result but without a catch can to maintain? What do you think?
Thanks again for your time.
Hey - Pete & Donna - sorry for the delay in responding. TH-cam held this comment and I just came across it. I think that could work, with my only concern being the one you mentioned about introducing contamination into the crankcase. You could run a temporary catch can to see what it collects, and base your final decision on that. Let me know what you end up with!
Well want to know somthing funny? Stock uk m8 have a breather on that case. Want me to send a pic?
I’d love to see that! Can you send me a DM? Telegram, Instagram or Signal: @RonsWorkshop
TH-cam strips out the email address from comments, so I can’t provide it here. But if you visit my “About” page on TH-cam and then click on “View Email Address” you can contact me that way. Note: You have to be logged into TH-cam to see the email address. Here’s a link to the page: th-cam.com/users/RonsWorkshopabout
Have to say, dump it.
Fair enough! It was interning to work with but I do prefer my original transmission top cover vent solution.
@@RonsWorkshop anxious to see what you come up with next …. I really like how you come at a particular topic from every angle imaginable… very interesting. You definitely helped me narrow it down …. You want to know something weird? I took the bike in to my Harley dealer, thought he was going to pop a vein in his forehead…. He swore up and down that that trans top cover was venting to primary and trans and had no way at all of venting the engine case. He said that Trask checkm8 cover was horse 💩…… like a company that’s been around that long with a heavy reputation like that would flush it down the toilet to make something that was 💩…. Funny.
Strange indeed. The proof for me was the plastic bag over the vent hose. There’s no doubt the crankcase has positive pressure because it inflates that bag in a couple of seconds.
Dumped the DK catch can waist of time
Hey Damien - did you have trouble with the catch can, and are you using a pod filter or just venting it straight out?
Ever consider adding a PVC vavle to your throttle body vacuum setup? This could regulate flow/vacuum dynamically as engine load conditions vary. Good overall info on this crankcase vent topic here www.engineprofessional.com/articles/EPQ315_34-44.pdf
Hey Paul - that's a good suggestion (and sorry for the delay - TH-cam held the comment and I just saw it). Tracking down a properly sized PCV valve might take some work, but it's definitely worth considering. I've found a 5/16" brass PCV valve that seems promising and I've considered swapping out the check valve in the regular crankcase vent with that piece. Let me know if you try anything!