✅ Answers! M8 Crankcase Pressure & Vacuum • Check Valve • Crankcase Vent • Sumping • Breather Mod 🤔
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Crankcase pressure? Check valve? Vacuum? In this video, I address the open questions from my last video. The hard-to-measure crankcase vacuum, using a check valve with the crankcase vent, and whether or not to keep the intake external breather mod AND the crankcase vent. I also cover crankcase pressure, crankcase vacuum, sumping, and a few other things as well. I want to give a BIG THANK YOU to Kevin Baxter for all of his conversations with me on the topics I covered in this video (link to his channel below).
⏱️ 𝗧𝗔𝗕𝗟𝗘 𝗢𝗙 𝗖𝗢𝗡𝗧𝗘𝗡𝗧𝗦 ⏱️
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00:00 Intro
01:02 Thank You To Kevin Baxter
01:29 Deep Topic
01:47 Measuring Vacuum - Oh Well…
02:05 Crankcase Pressure Is BAD
02:19 M8 Sumping
02:36 Crankcase Pressure & Sumping
03:12 Crankcase Vacuum
03:27 Breather Mod Removes Vacuum Source!
03:38 Keep The Check Valve!
03:50 Now What? Keep Breather Mod?
04:13 Check Breather Bolts For Oil
04:40 Sumping Symptoms
05:15 External Breather Mod By Itself?
05:41 Another Option - Best Of Both?
06:20 How Much Oil In The Intake Is Too Much?
06:40 Compression & Leak-Down Test (Sumping?)
06:54 Have You Had Problems With Sumping Or Crankcase Pressure?
07:54 Like, Share & Subscribe :)
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Check-Up Video: How's the Crankcase Vent & Check Valve Working?
• ❓Check-Up: M8 Transmis...
Check For Sumping: Remove Crank Sensor
• M8 • Wondering If You ...
Trying To Measure Crankcase Pressure & Vacuum
• Video
Transmission Top Cover Crankcase Vent SUCCESS
• M8 Crankcase Venting •...
Vented Dipstick FAIL
• But There's Still Hope...
Arlen Ness Monster Sucker External Breather Mod
• Monster Sucker Mod • A...
Kevin Baxter's TH-cam Channel (Baxter's Garage & Pro Twin Performance)
bit.ly/kevin_baxter_youtube
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𝗣𝗔𝗥𝗧𝗦 𝗟𝗜𝗦𝗧 (For Transmission Top Cover Crankcase Vent)
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You can use 3/16” or 1/4” fittings, and both are listed below. 1/4” will give more airflow but it’s not necessarily required. I originally used 3/16” but I’d go with 1/4” if I did it again, or even 5/16".
3/16” Bulkhead Hose Barb Fitting*
amzn.to/3lGG2do (Brass)
3/16” Cole-Parmer Check Valve*
(The best one I've found so far!)
amzn.to/2P4qpQs (probably out of stock)
bit.ly/3EZ3D3H (Direct From Manufacturer)
3/16" Check Valve (eBay - Untested)*
ebay.to/3nMYenk
3/16” to 3/8” Barb Splice (For Uni Filter)*
amzn.to/3gnld4A (Stainless Steel)
amzn.to/3d03EqR (Brass)
3/16" Silicone Vacuum Hose*
amzn.to/3mRJzHh
1/4” Bulkhead Hose Barb Fitting*
amzn.to/3L50jFs (Stainless Steel)
amzn.to/3pcqopV (Brass)
1/4” Cole-Parmer Check Valve*
amzn.to/2Ptqz3V (probably out of stock)
bit.ly/3ZpIhEV (Direct From Manufacturer)
1/4" Check Valve (eBay - Untested)*
ebay.to/3uxaLio
1/4” to 3/8” Barb Splice (For Uni Filter)*
amzn.to/32Yzd1x (Stainless Steel)
amzn.to/34eca3F (Brass)
1/4” Silicone Vacuum Hose*
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Uni UP-101 Breather Filter*
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ebay.to/3APSXkE
bit.ly/3L5qgom
5/16” Mini PCV Valve*
amzn.to/3KhcIor
bit.ly/3MgLY9A
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* 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘢𝘯 𝘢𝘧𝘧𝘪𝘭𝘪𝘢𝘵𝘦 𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘬, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘮𝘦𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘪𝘧 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘣𝘶𝘺 𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘧𝘵𝘦𝘳 𝘤𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘭𝘪𝘯𝘬 𝘐'𝘭𝘭 𝘳𝘦𝘤𝘦𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘢 𝘴𝘮𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘵 𝘯𝘰 𝘢𝘥𝘥𝘪𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘴𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘺𝘰𝘶. 𝘛𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘩𝘦𝘭𝘱𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘩𝘦𝘭𝘱𝘴 𝘮𝘦 𝘬𝘦𝘦𝘱 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘷𝘪𝘥𝘦𝘰𝘴 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴. 𝘗𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘥𝘰 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘦𝘺 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘵𝘴 𝘶𝘯𝘭𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘧𝘦𝘦𝘭 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘯𝘦𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘰𝘳 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘺 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘩𝘦𝘭𝘱 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘢𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘦𝘷𝘦 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘨𝘰𝘢𝘭𝘴. 👍🏼 𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘬 𝘺𝘰𝘶 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘺𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵!
#crankcasevacuum #m8blowby #ronsworkshop #softail #fxbb #streetbob
The current state of affairs with my crankcase vent and external breather mod on my Harley-Davidson Street Bob FXBB with the 114 Stage III Screamin' Eagle kit. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Well, I believe all of the mysteries are solved and the unanswered questions have been dealt with. Have you had problems with excess crankcase pressure, oil in your intake, or sumping? Have you been able to identify the cause(s)? Let me know!
I'm thinking of modding my top plate too.. (but have warranty fears for 5 more years) I'm thinking the added/necessary check valves are or will be of questionable reliability (partly do to what they will be exposed to), and how they can become overlooked after time or by a new owner and what the repercussions will be if a/the new check valve fails to seal properly.
@@ut1004bp I understand about the warranty. Early results are good on the check valve - they will definietly need some periodic cleaning, and possibly a periodic replacing. Good points.
Great job communicating the information Ron. Awesome video. Thanks for the shout out sir. Glad I could help. All the best.
Couldn’t have done it without you!
Thank you both for the great work. I don't believe that I have any sumping issues on my 2020 RGS, but adding a couple trick check valves is probably wise, if it is beneficial. I did the Trask style check valve on the trany cover. I don't have the Arlen Ness breather, but I do have the SE Ventilator Air Cleaner with my own external breather. My question is: do I add a check valve to the external head breathers? I thought that there was check valves behind the breather bolts?
Hey Dave - thanks for the feedback! Check valve is recommended on the crankcase breather. You’re correct that the head breathers have check valves already, but if you’ve added your own external breather mod you’re no longer getting the use of them and you’ve removed the crankcase vacuum source. Does that make sense? Let me know if I can provide more info.
If you want a channel sticker send me a DM on Telegram or Instagram with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
@@RonsWorkshop Thanks for getting right back. I still have the stock breather bolts. Instead of venting into the intake I re-routed the lines externally. I chose not to add another check valve, but it's simple enough to do so!
Really liking your videos. Thank you for taking the time. By the way, Kevin Baxter is amazing, great channel.
Hey vicsponjr - thanks for the kind words! And yes, Kevin Baxter is top-notch. I have lots of respect for him.
Excellent, not as confused as I was. Guess I will for now monitor the breather situation. Thanks again, always learning!
Hey dtork47 - let me know if can help clarify anything. Thanks for the kind words!
the details and production quality of your videos is fantastic- you packed a dense information subset into chapters in 7minutes- really you should be a professor this is impressive!
Hey Shan - thanks so much for the encouragement!
And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
Awesome monologue. Need to watch it a few more times. I love dense material…Baxter’s Garage is where I go to OD on deep dives. You are very good at verbally thinking through your data. Thanks 2020 Fat Boy 🦅 of a 🪶
Hey Sm00th Top77 - Thank you for the kind words! And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
Told a friend what I had done to my M8 and he wondered if the late model Twin Cams had the same area that could be vented through transmission. Thanks, This worked well on my M8 as it stopped stumbling pulling away from stops.
Hey Chris - I haven’t worked with the twin cams so I really can’t say. It’s probably easy enough to pop the cover off and take a look, though.
I’m glad yours worked out - thanks for sharing that update!
@Kevin Baxter is awesome for sure.
Great videos. I've watched all of your m8 crankcase vent related videos and me and my dad have gone ahead and purchased everything needed to do that vent mod in the transmission top cover on our bikes. Only thing in doing different is I found a nice black aluminum check valve made by UPR so I'm using that. Can't wait to knock it out and see the improvement
Thanks for the kind words! Did you try the aluminum check valve? Please share the specifics and part # if you did.
@@RonsWorkshop yes I used the UPR products 5044-10 (1/4) black aluminum check valve. It worked like a charm. Everything else I used was from your links. Doing it on my road king and my dad's street glide we also ran the hose straight back above the oil tank, behind the frame and put the filter behind the right side cover. It came out really clean and works well. One of the best mods I've done. My dad's bike was already tune/exhaust/intake before we did his and he said it now has better throttle response than it's ever had before.
@hondarider436 thanks for sharing the info!
I have a 2019 Street Glide. Under warranty they did the mod for the crossover. I also added the trask crank case breather and I've just service my air filter and noticed a minimal amount of blow by in my breather/throttle body area. Also I do have the stage 1 filter and tune.
Hey vintagetrks Kelley - thanks for sharing that info!
I have a 2017 Road Glide and was getting excessive blow by from the air filter. I added a catch can and that has fixed that issue but now it is leaking from somewhere else. Still haven't pinpointed where yet but it is dripping from the bottom of the crankcase. Now thinking the vented transmission cover will be my next step. Thanks for the videos. Great info
Hey ShaneW - thanks for the kind words! Let me know how it goes. Tracking down those leaks can be a real challenge sometimes.
I know I'm a little late but I would say the best option is to do a breather bolt mod that vent into the transmission top cover then the top cover vent with a check valve. Thos would suck the fumes and oil back into the engine under vacuum but alow the pressure venting when needed. You could either drill 2 holes in the top cover for each line or T off the breather both line. I like the first because that would allow any oil on the line to drop back to the case. Hell even just doing a breather bolt mod but running the line to the top cover can work. Keep stock vacuum but the oil gets pulled back for case vs the intake.
Bounty HunterNH - thanks for throwing out some ideas! Let me know if you go with one or the other. For me, the big win is venting that pressure out of the crankcase. The next win is getting the oil out of the intake, but with that the vacuum is sacrificed. But no pressure and no vacuum is better than crankcase pressure!
I would like to see what kind of vacuum readings you are getting from your modified air cleaner. From where you added the hose barbs. That should be easy to do and verify how much vacuum is being supplied to the head breathers.
That’s a great suggestion. I’ll try that when I work on the catch can mod I’ve mentioned. Thanks for the input!
The old shovel/evo spat excess oil out on the ground. ( due to anti drain back check ball mainly) People said just have the breathe hanging down as the breather valve shut outside air off on the up stroke but dirt has been found in them being sucked in. Not sure on later models. Just learning on that one .. with my evo ( best I check my twin cam ) at constant hi rpm ( 4000) highway speeds I het a bit of excess oil in the carb. My friend spat his dip stick out at that speed once on his 01 twin cam at 4000rpm playing boy racer lol ….
Thanks Ron. My wife just bought me my first Harley a ‘22 Road Glide. Liking the modification just wondering if there would be any warranty issues as a result
Hey Dave - you’re welcome, and congrats on the bike! It’s hard to say about the warranty. From what I can tell it varies by dealer. Let me know if you decide to give it a shot.
So I have a similar crankcase vent setup and I've set up an external breather to atmosphere... I think I'll try reverting the external breather and check it after a while - I always had a bit of oil in the intake when it was stock and even with a simple vented dipstick, so it will be interesting to see how it goes...
…or maybe add the catch-can in a loop back to the intake…
Hey Ian - yes! That’s the alternative solution I eluded to in the video. I think I’ll try that too just for the heck of it.
Let me know how it goes if you make any changes.
I was just think8ng about deleting the pcv valve for a straight barb fitting maybe with a check valve
Let me know how it goes!
Hi Ron I reversed the harley dipstick mod and the oil blow by seems to have stopped. Thanks for your feedback and for you sharing information.
That’s great news! Let me know if anything changes. It’s still puzzling why that would be the case, but I’m glad that resolved the issue.
Thanks. If any changes I will let you know
Ron, once a vent is established at the transmission cover, wouldn’t it be possible/preferable to cap the head breathers to the TB? It seems my engines prefer to burn gasoline and cool air, not hot oil and crankcase gases!
In drag racing with big V8’s, 500 cubic inch and up, it’s common to add a vacuum pump to help seal the piston rings.
Hey Alan - I’d say yes to that. At the end of the check-up video I give a diagram and explanation of a solution I’m going to try, as recommended by subscriber J Ecr. Check it out when you can - there are a couple of options for vacuum source that I’ll explore as part of that:
th-cam.com/video/jOATltGSkgU/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the input! If you want a channel sticker send me a DM on Telegram or Instagram with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
A1 vented dipstick. Put on a catch can, just 4 the heck of it, nothings ever in it. I do follow A1's instructions on the lower oil level, also. 2018 Road King Standard, zero issues.
Hey Todd - thanks for sharing your setup! Sounds like it’s working well.
@@RonsWorkshop I have seen a very small amount of residue in my catch can, just a couple of times. So, 99% of the time it's dry. Thought I'd better clarify that. Good video, Ron!
Thanks for the kind words!
Ron love your video's I have tried the vented distick and found the same problem to much oil inthe filter. Did the trask vented cover and noe Thinking of the external breather Isn't the breather setup now used on the stock system have check valves in the heads? Just wondering
Hey Donald - thanks for the kind words! Yes, there are OEM check valves in the heads, but as I understand it they are only ported to the breather bolts and not the test of the crankcase. I haven’t check this but that’s my understanding. Let me know what you end up doing.
And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
I have a bone stock 2020 Tri Glide. Recently I added an external breather. I simply eliminated the "S" shaped tube going into the back of the air filter and attached a hose to the "T" fitting. I drilled a hole in the bottom of the air box and ran the hose to the rear of the bike with a K&N breather filter attached to it. I also plugged the hole in the back of the air filter so no unfiltered air would enter the throttle body. A friend thought I now have no vacuum "pulling" on the "S" tube and might start blowing seals. I do not believe this is an issue as heads have umbrella valves that work one way at positive pressure. B/4 this I had very little blow by with about 12K on the bike. I just didn't like the idea of oxygen depleted air, oil mist etc., messing up the air filter and combustion chamber. With about 100 miles on it I see no issue - so far.
Hey Ronald - thanks for sharing your setup. Seems like that should work just fine. Let me know how it goes.
Love your videos Ron! I understand the benefits of a vacuum in the crankcase and the harms associated with too much pressure in the crankcase but I don’t understand how there can be excess pressure and a vacuum at the same time. Is there positive crankcase pressure at low revs and negative crankcase pressure at higher revs. I just can’t envision the need to vent and the need for vacuum at the same time. Can you help me understand?
So I watched some of Kevin Baxter’s vids as well and I might be understanding better now. Correct me if I’m wrong but the positive crankcase pressure occurs when the piston is traveling down in the bore coupled with any blow-by from the combustion gas expansion above the piston leaking down into the crankcase. The other piston moving up in the bore is exerting negative pressure on the crankcase. So it sounds like venting the crankcase allows the excess pressure to be alleviated. At that point there would be neutral crankcase pressure since both pressure from the pistons moving up and down would cancel each other out. That’s where leaving the breather bolt alone would provide vacuum from the Venturi effect of the ports in the intake. Is that close to correct? I’m brand new to Harleys and they are entirely different from anything else I’ve ever worked on. I’m looking forward to seeing the “vacuum catch can crankcase vent” video you’re working on! Keep up the good work!
Hey Bick5402 - I think your explanation is great. That’s about the way I understand it myself. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this and also for the kind words!
And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
Thank u
You’re very welcome!
2017 FLHTCU oil pump started to fail at 11.5k miles. At stops and low RPM, the oil light would come on. Took a while to prove to the dealer this was happening. At 12.2k miles dealer replaced the oil pump and cam, that's all Harley would cover. This was the end of 2018. The next day had to take the bike back to the dealer because the oil light came on and stayed on. It took Harley over a month to agree to replace the lower half of the motor, and I paid the dealer to replace the top half with 107 Stage IV. I would not trust any part of the motor that had been exposed to oil failure. I also had the dealer upgrade the oil cooler with the fan-assisted cooler and go with the screaming eagle clutch. I also changed out the heavy breather with the other screaming eagle breather. I was told by the dealer that there was a problem with an internal journal that affected oil pressure and caused the failure. That was December of 2018 and the bike had 12.2k miles on it. I have not ridden in a while because I am a disabled vet and had some medical issues to keep me off the bike for over a year. 3 months ago I ordered the 128 upgrade kit, and after 2 months the kit came in. Dealer picked up bike because it would not start. I thought it was a problem with the O2 sensor, as that was the code the Tuner popped up on the computer.
During the teardown of the motor, there was an excessive amount of oil and metal pieces in the CAM Chest. The connector for the sensor that goes into the cam chest was blown off from too much pressure in the cam chest. There was oil coming out of the disconnected sensor. The dealer told me that a lifter failed and that is what caused the damage to the entire motor. They also told me that if you upgrade to a stage IV kit that you have to replace the pushrods ever 10k miles. Even if that was true, it had only been 9k miles since the stage motor was replaced and the stage IV kit was installed. Another dealership tells me that is not the case. I was told the entire motor was shot. It would cost over $10K to replace the motor with Stock Lower half and the stage IV kit on top. I thought about it and asked the dealer for a quote for a 131 crate motor. It is $2k cheaper to go with the complete 131 crate than to piece it together and end up with the 128 kit. Not a hard decision to make. Now we are waiting for the motor to come in.
Here is the RUB. There are 21K miles on the bike. This is the second complete motor to be replaced in it. I paid over $27k for the bike and then went with a stage 1 kit (Screaming Eagle Headers, mufflers, Tuner, and auto tuner) another $3k. That was at 7k Miles. At 12.2k miles dropped another $4.5K for the stage IV kit which is now a stage III kit. At 21K miles, it's costing another $8.5K and Harley is telling me tough titty on getting any kind of break on the repair costs. This is also after I bought and installed a new autotune kit and vance and hines pipes to replace the screaming eagle Pipes and Street Cannon mufflers. Yes the bike is out of warranty, but it is obvious that Harley knows it is a defect from the plant, otherwise, they would not have replaced the motor in the first place at 12.2k miles and 25 months after the day I bought the bike. I have already paid $8.5K to the dealer before they told me that it would need to be a complete motor replacement, which they quoted $8.2k to do a complete 131 crate motor install.
I have since bought the new dipstick with the air filter to handle venting the crankcase to the atmosphere. ($300 bucks) I have 3 different oil catch cans to vent the exhaust gases before putting them back into the intake. Going to go all out, with a large capacity catch can, stainless steel hoses to go to and from the breather to the tank and back, and will even use the original oil cooler with a fan to cool the air/oil mist before it makes it to the catch can so that I will be putting clean air back into the intake. I will tie in the fan with the existing fan on the oil cooler so that they run in synch. I have also bought a kit to raise the fuel tank 2.5" to allow more airflow to the heads and ordered the Harley fan which will replace a heat shield so that there is air being pushed to the rear cylinder to cool it at low rpm's and blow the heat from the exhaust pipes away and down from the passenger's feet. When I get it all put together I will send you a video or pics to show what I did.
I am collecting all of my service documents, and have reached out to a lawyer. I am not against paying for what I want, but I shouldn't have to pay twice because of Harley's defects and unwillingness to do the right thing.
Hey James - thanks for sharing all of that info! That's been quite a journey, and I totally understand your frustration with having to pay for things more than once. Please do let me know how it works out, and I'd love to see and hear it one it's all done!
If you want a channel sticker send me a DM on Telegram or Instagram with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
You lost me on the vacuum source stuff, but thanks for taking on this topic and adding your perspective. There are so many opinions but near impossible to tell what's credible versus internet geniuses.
Bottom line, I'm extremely disappointed with The Motor Co for not fixing my extreme oil transfer problem on my 2019, and sticking me with this sumping issue and stupid hydraulic clutch AFTER I sold my perfect running twin cam after eleven years. It did strand me one time but because of an electrical issue. Man I wish I had that bike back.
Btw, I added the Trask vented cover and probably voided my warranty. I have only mild oil residue after 10K miles, before the vent, so I'm not messing with an external breather. The engine is what it is and it will have to do.
Hey Jerry - yeah that’s a frustrating situation!
For.vacuum - it’s a good thing. If you keep the OEM breather bolt setup you’ve still got vacuum.
@@RonsWorkshop Ron, show us how much vacuum is at your breather ports on the new hose barbs on your air cleaner.
Will do - I’ll do that when I work on the catch can / vacuum mod.
@Jerry A. Brown Hey Jerry, if you read the service manual on the operation of the breathers, there is no mention anywhere about crankcase vacuum. I've done a lot of reading and have come to the conclusion this throttle body supplying vacuum to the crankcase is a myth.
BREATHER OPERATION
CRANKCASE VENTILATION
A breather assembly is mounted to each cylinder head to prevent a buildup of pressure caused by the downward force of the pistons. Burning crankcase vapor eliminates the pollutants normally discharged from the crankcase.
See Figure 4-6. As pistons push downward, displaced air in the crankcase is vented through the crankcase roller bearing into the cam compartment. The air flows up the pushrod covers (1) into the rocker housing. The moving air absorbs a small amount of oil vapor as it travels through the engine.
The oil/air vapor passes through an opening in the breather assembly (3).
In the breather assembly, the flow of air passes downward through a labyrinth where most of the oil is separated from air. It then moves upward through the breather element (4) where the remaining oil is removed. Two small holes in the bottom of the breather housing allow the separated oil to drain back into the crankcase.
Passing through the breather element, the vapor passes through the umbrella valve (2). Vapor passes down into the cylinder head passageway and through the breather bolt (5). It passes through a breather tube (6) into the air filter element where it combines with the intake air stream and is burned during normal combustion.
Hey Don - thanks for posting that info about the breather valves! I do believe there is measurable vacuum in the throat of the throttle body. When I work on the catch can I’ll be checking that. The key in that description you posted is “intake air stream” - the stream - flowing into the engine. There will be a vacuum in the throttle body that gradually decreases until wide open throttle is achieved.
Thanks for your video. It’s great information, but I’m not convinced an EBS in conjunction with the trans-vent is a bad thing. To assume that redirecting where the pressure from the heads go (to atmosphere rather than back into the intake) creates vacuum pressure negates the affect the butterfly valves have in the heads. In my mind, a valved EBS is as effective or better than OEM, and all that is really changed is that the oil from the heads is redirected to atmosphere. Isn’t the vacuum created every time the piston lowers, creating pressure against the butterfly valve? The idea of a catch can under vacuum is an interesting one, but then expense goes way up, too. One could postulate that adding too much vacuum pressure to the catch can will defeat the butterfly valves, and render them less effective, as opposed to the pressure from the heads having to defeat the b-valves and a check valve of an EBS. Idk, just an idea.
Hey Andrew - thanks for sharing your thoughts! I know what you mean about using both vents together. In my mind, it’s not that it’s necessarily bad - but it’s important to know that removes the vacuum source. The valves in the heads will let pressure out but not let anything back in. Adding a check valve to the EBS wouldn’t really do anything since there’s no vacuum to seal the check valve. Maybe there would be some pressure fluctuation from the bottom of the pistons going up but that’s be about it. Would it be bad if there was so much vacuum that it kept the head valves open? Not sure. I’m thinking that wouldn’t be a bad thing but it may not even be feasible to have that much vacuum. Good discussion 👍🏼
Removing the hot oxygen depleted air and condensation anr routing it to a EBS or catch can has to perform better then running it back thru the intake caking up on top of the pistons. I have a 2021 FLTRXS and 2021FLHTCUTH and both have vented tranny covers and EBS from DK customs with their 4 stage catch cand and running the enging oil half way between add and full mark work great on both my bikes. I have very very little oil mist now in the catch cans but I still can remove a teaspoon of water every 300 to 500 miles. Water does not burn so keeping it away from the air/fuel intake is a no brainer.
Hey T M - thanks for sharing that info!
@@TM-wr7tp I commented on the subject of hot gases being sucked back into the engine (on another one of Ron's videos) and I currently have the Arlen Ness intake blocked off and rerouted to a catch can on my '21 M8. I will probably be adding the Trask style trans vent w/check valve before spring. My chopper has an Ultima 127/130 (punched it out with new pistons) and the head breathers have never gone to the intake, straight to a breather and then to atmosphere. Makes good dyno pulls and I've never seen a reason to add vacuum to that engine which puts out close to 140 hp and 155 ft/lbs of torque depending on the exhaust that I dyno it with. I'm beginning to think the vacuum issue is a grey ghost that is eating up valuable time better spent elsewhere. If it weren't for the EPA Harley would not be routing the vents back to the intake, they are fully aware of the issues that this causes within the engine but it's the cheapest fix for the emissions requirements and let's face facts, it's cost over quality where Harley is concerned.
@@TM-wr7tp thanks for confirming what I found today in my EBS catch can (water). I also have the Trask tranny crankcase breather and an EBS catch can (with Trasks blocked intake plate for their Assault A/C.
I looked inside the catch can today and removed about 1/8” to 1/4” of water but ZERO OIL.
However, I am getting a fair amount of oil mist coming out of the Trask Tranny Vent filter. So… going to remove a little more oil (bike shows full when level off kickstand) to try and reduce the amount making its way up the tranny vent line into the filter (and a rag wrapped around it).
I have a 2019 Road king, was thinking about the breather relocation at the air cleaner when I stumbled upon your last video venting through the transmission top cover. If I’m thinking correctly, it looks to me like that transmission top cover mod is working well enough to keep the oil away from the breather bolts thus making the relocation of the breather at the air cleaner unnecessary?….. but on the other hand by adding manifold vacuum to the breather bolts may still draw some oil, but not near as much if I’m thinking correctly.
Hey Jeffrey - you’re on the right track. So far for me the crankcase breather with check valve along with the OEM breather bolt setup is working fine with minimal oil. I still need to check after some longer rides but so far so good.
Probably the only reason to add the manifold vacuum would be if you use crankcase vent and external breather mod together - and still use a check valve on the crankcase vent.
If you want a channel sticker send me a DM on Telegram or Instagram with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
@@RonsWorkshop mailing info the old geezer way….😃
Jeff Engle
PO Box 1855
Lewiston ID 83501
@@RonsWorkshop i’m thinking my approach will be the transmission cover vent with check valve only. That way I have kept the intake manifold vacuum as stock and also I have relieved excess crank case pressure. Also it will allow me too use a oil temp dipstick so I can check my oil temperature as well. Hopefully these modifications will keep oil in the crank case (A bit more)….. and relieve any oil frothing ?….. know anybody looking for a good A1 dipstick🤣
Hi Ron, I've done the Breather Mod to my 2011 Twincam Dyna and was wondering if the loss of vacum is also affected in Twincam engines by doing this mod? Also, does the Transmission Top Cover Vent Mod works the same on a Twincam? Thanks.
Hey Luis - I’ve only worked with the M8 so I can’t say for sure. I believe the same crankcase pressure issues are present on the twin cams but maybe not as severe as the M8 motors. Let me know if you’re able to confirm anything.
I was thinking of the air cleaner using heavy breather and just letting it go back and fourth vs to a catch can or filter or open hose
Hey Just Me - what did you end up doing?
@@RonsWorkshop on heavy breather from A/C just running tube to side down and out to ground.
Hey Ron. I’ve been following along your venting adventure lol
I where is the check valve for the head breather system?? I have a stock Harley filter which I removed the rubber lines that spray the oil into the throttle body and ran them out to a catch can. So this mean I’ve essentially removed the vacuum in the motor?
I’m very interested to do the transmission cover mod you did in your video then T that into my catch can. But now I may need another valve to restore vacuum to the motor. Correct.
Hey Nathan - “adventure” is a good word for sure! There’s one breather check valve in each head under the rocker box cover. And yes, when we remove the OEM intake / breather vent we remove the crankcase vacuum source. Not necessarily terrible - it just depends on several factors - like whether or not you have a sumping problem. The catch can option is a good one. I’m still running with just the crankcase vent and the OEM breather system. So far so good but I still have a bolt / oil residue check to do to be sure. I’m very interested in keeping the crankcase vent with check valve, adding back the external breather mod, and applying manifold vacuum to a catch can to tie it all together. There will be a video on that but it will be towards the fall.
If you want a channel sticker send me a DM on Telegram or Instagram with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
@@RonsWorkshop hey I just found you on Instagram and sent you a msg thanks! Keep up they great work and informative videos
Ron can we get a parts list with numbers that you used for the oil vent check valve for the M8 top trans cover
Hey Robert - The full parts list is in this video description. You can click “show more” if you’re in a desktop computer or tap “more” if you’re using a mobile device. Let me know if you need more info, and let me know how it goes!
Can someone break this down a little better for me? After Harley upgraded the oil pump for the 2020+ models, does the crank case still need to be vented? I'm seeing mixed feelings about externally venting from the air cleaner to the transmission cover, and trying to figure out which way to go on my 22 EGS. Do I need both, can I do one or the other? Who's getting the best results with which, or both?
Hey Bruce - I recently released an updated 2023 video related to this - see if this helps:
Crankcase Pressure In 2023? 😞 Top 4 Crankcase Venting Questions Answered • Harley-Davidson M8
th-cam.com/video/JPI3AeMfYeg/w-d-xo.html
What check valve are you using? I’ve been to every store in my city that would sell them and it seems to be null in my area! Great content, thank you 🤙🏻
Hey Steven - thanks for the kind words! You should be able to get the check valve directly from this link to the distributor: bit.ly/3Pb5BE2
Hi Ron what state is your workshop located in? I do not turn wrenches, curious if I could get the bike to you. FYI, I am in TN.
Hi Arlene - I’m just a hobbyist and rider and I just work on my own bikes.
Ron, what is the part number of the Dorman check valve?
Sorry for the delay - I'm not sure why I'm just seeing this comment for the first time. The Dorman part # that failed is 47170. Let me knowhow it goes!
I'm curious what you think of hooking the hose from the trans breather to the barb on the intake at the 6 minute mark of your previous video? Would that work similar to a pcv setup on automobiles and create the vacuum in the trans. I wonder if it would suck oil up or not is my concern
Hey lastinline000 - I think that would work. I haven’t yet looked to see exactly where that’s ported to in the throttle body but it definitely has strong vacuum. I’d recommend the check valve though - to keep the vacuum on the crankcase and also avoid leaning it out since it could pull in more air than it does now. Again it’s theoretical since it’s untested but it seems like that would be a decent option.
@@RonsWorkshop definitely retain the check valve just like a pcv valve, I'd think it should be about the same as an auto which uses manifold suction as well. Possibly a smaller diameter hose to limit the draw. May need to block off the factory intake bolts that you used on the throttle body .I'd think it would make for a decent closed system. They always said a Harley was like cutting the front two cylinders off of a 350 Chevy
Yeah definitely worth considering and/or trying.
350 Chevy is my favorite motor by the way :)
Do you have a follow-up on what check valve to use ?
Hey Jim - yes, you should be able to purchase them here: bit.ly/3Pb5BE2
I think I updated the links in the video description as well.
Hey. First off I like the way you explain everything. That being said. Back in May I picked up a 2023 Street Glide Special with only 540 miles on it. Since then I've put a little over 4,000 miles on it. Most recently on a trip I noticed, a shit ton of oil coming from my air cleaner. I really couldn't tell if there was any loss of power. On the road a friend and I would gas stop every 150 miles or so. When riding we averaged between 95 - 110 MPH. When I check my oil it keeps indicating to add 1/2 q (which I did) and as of right now it saying to add 1 hole q . I guess what I'm asking is just in your general opinion, does that sound like sumping or blow by. Thanks for any advice
Hmmm. I really can’t say if it’s sumping, but that seems like a significant amount of oil loss. Your bike should have the updated oil pump, which usually addresses the major sumping issues on the older generation M8s. That is puzzling.
And thank you for the kind words!
@@RonsWorkshop the last trip I did about a week ago was from Denver to Salt Lake, 7 1/2 Hours there, 8 Hours back. One way is about 517 miles. You can say I was kind of pushing it. But still a quart of oil in 1,050 miles is not good at all. Who else do you think I could ask. Personally I do not trust any of the dealerships. Planing on riding to Rapid City this weekend. This is the first time I've asked a question on TH-cam, so thanks for responding 👍🏼
@bandidoed2073 if you can actually make contact, Doc Harley or Kevin Baxter are rock solid and trustworthy.
Do the m8 heads have umbrella valves like the twin cams? If so, how does venting heads to atmosphere break the vacuum? I remember the simple test to make sure breathers were installed correctly on twin cams was if you could suck air out, but not blow air back in, the assembly was correct.
Hey Dieselpig - great question! Yes, the M8 has the umbrella valves also, and your test is accurate too. Regarding the vacuum, the issue is that it comes from the manifold vacuum by routing the blow-by through the breather bolts. So if we remove that path by adding an external breather, the vacuum is lost. Does that make sense?
Yessir. The intake charge creates the vacuum by pulling the air expelled by breathers into your he intake. Thanks Ron!
Yep! By the way. if you want a channel sticker send me a DM on Telegram or Instagram with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
Doesn't the revised Harley pump from Harley address the sumping issue ?
Hey Shawn - the “2020” pump definitely brings improvements to scavenging oil out of the sump. If there’s a serious sumping issue even that pump can’t overcome it, but, it’s a good upgrade over the original OEM pump. But if that’s the case (a major sumping problem) there are other things that need to be dealt with.
Hi Ron, I have a new 2022 Fatboy, only had it 7 months and only got 300 miles on it , I think it is sumping, my transmission oil is getting in to my engine oil and making it over full. I called the dealer and told them,they said bring it in. I have 2 year warranty. Would that be a bad oil pump or to much pressure billed up. I have the 114 M8 . I don't want to be charged for this issue.
Hey Don - hmmmm. I’m not sure. I know at one point there was an oil transfer issue like you’re describing, and I think it had to do with the clutch pushrod or something like that. Sumping could be caused by a number of things, but I wouldn’t expect your 2022 to have an oil pump issue unless it’s just an outright bad pump. If you’re under warranty you shouldn’t have any problems. Let me know what you find out.
Hi Ron. I can’t find what you used for a check valve. Trying to find one that you had used. Thanks again and great video!
He Rene - thanks for the kind words! I did some digging and found out that the previous supplier no longer carries the check valves, but there is a new supplier. The drawback is they only seem to sell them in packs of 6. Here’s a link to what I found: bit.ly/3GxGyGQ
And here's another one that I have not tried but could be promising: bit.ly/3MgLY9A
Other check valves may work fine, but the lowest possible opening pressure is definitely beneficial.
Let me know if that helps at all…
@@RonsWorkshop . In your research,(and I have yet to get a definitive answer from other sources) what is excessive crankcase pressure and how can I pick a check valve to meet the needs. Want to find an optimal crankcase measurement. Thanks again
@@renetessier9098 that's a great question. I don't know the best definition of "excessive", but any amount of positive pressure in the crankcase is worth dealing with. Positive pressure in general is detrimental to performance and operation (and can affect longevity if it's high enough), whereas crankcase vacuum is quite beneficial for performance and longevity. I'm actually finishing up a video right now where I revisit these topics because they are still so relevant. In terms of which check valve, I did some digging and found out that the previous supplier I used no longer carries the check valves, but there is a new supplier. The drawback is they only seem to sell them in packs of 6. Here’s a link to what I found: bit.ly/3GxGyGQ
And here's another one that I have not tried but could be promising: bit.ly/3MgLY9A
Other check valves may work fine, but the lowest possible opening pressure is definitely beneficial (the one I have opens at just 0.1 PSI).
Let me know what you end up with!
So would you say the best would be just to run with a crank case ventilation ie..feuling oil cap vent?
Hey Hoàng Uông - I thinks that’s a great starting point - Fueling dipstick or Trask CheckM8 or DIY transmission too cover vent. You can see how I tackled the transmission too cover vent in this video: th-cam.com/video/U6gOhbRQrwE/w-d-xo.html
@@RonsWorkshop Hmm trask check m8 transmission vent with the dk catch can is going to be the way to go
Hey Damien - That sounds like a good combo. I wish DK Custom made a catch can that had an extra port for vacuum. I am going to try the version that uses crankcase vent, breather mod, and catch can plus manifold vacuum. It’ll be later in the fall but it’s coming!
hello ron but the check valve must expel air from the crankcase and not make it return to the crankcase?
Hey Jonny 84 - that’s correct. Air should flow away from the crankcase.
What check valve did you use on the gear box breather?
Hey Robby - here’s the link: bit.ly/3Pb5BE2
It should be in the video description also.
On a car the vacuum created by the engine to the pvc valve is created behind the throttle plate or plates. On a Harley the breather tubes are on the wrong side of the throttle plates. There are check valves in the Harley heads and I can't see how there would be enough vacuum on the intake side of the throttle plate of a Harley to open the head check valves. Vacuum in a Harley is created when the pistons go up 45 degrees apart, at that point the check valves are closed and a vacuum is created. On the down stroke and the combustion leaking past the rings pressure is created and the check valves open to relieve the pressure. I think both are good to have on the bike and the breather tubes are not effective in creating a vacuum. To check the head check valves when changing oil take out the drain plug and the oil will gurgle out and then remove the oil dipstick and the oil will flow faster and no gurgle.
Hay Mike - thanks for sharing that info! I think you're right about the vacuum on the intake side of the throttle plates. I'm currently testing the catch can with vacuum, and I get plenty of vacuum (too much) using the capped nipple on the throttle body, but no measurable vacuum on the intake side. And thanks for the the tip about checking the head check valves when draining oil!
How can there be a Vacuum in Crankcase when there's a breather in Transmission cover from factory ? Is there a one way valve in factory breather cover ?
Hey Peter - which breather are you referring to? The little rubber hose only vents the gearbox and not the crankcase.
Hi Ron,
Asked this question on another one of your videos, Why not vent the case with the check valve and just blank out the head bolts. Would that not stop any hot oxygen depleted air from air from entering the intake and also relieve pressure from the crankcase?
Hey Jamie - I have debated blocking those head bolt breathers with regular bolts, but I'm just not sure if there would be unforeseen negative consequences. I would force the gasses to go right into the crankcase, so if the crankcase was vented maybe it would be fine? I just don't know for sure. Or would it push carbon and other gunk from the blow-by into the crankcase?
@@RonsWorkshop so if you were to shrink yourself down and enter those breather bolts holes would you A. Find a direct sealed route to the crank case?
B. Find an alternative route leading to crankcase and also to somewhere else?
If it's A then I don't see a problem
If it's B then yeah must be vented
@@jamiemiller6912 That is indeed the question. I haven't been able to inspect of these heads to find out.
Ron great video, question that sort of pigtails on to this.
I’m getting a bit of oil dripping from my filter coming from the crankcase vent.
I used the Trask venting plate, did a stage 1&2 and installed a SS oil pump and cam plate. My engine oil levels are right in the middle of the correct levels on my dipstick.
The only thing I did different from the Trask instructions was to run the filter so it comes out under the bike. But using the supplied hose , which isn’t very long, I don’t have much of loop in the hose. It comes off the vent goes up 6 or 8 inches then loops down under the bike. I’m wondering if I replaced the hose with a longer one and ran it up under the seat before looping it back down, would solve my problem.? Any thoughts.
Hey Todd - thanks for the kudos! Yeah, maybe try routing generally up, even possibly leaving a loop in it. I think Fueling even recommends routing their vent hose all the way up to the tank but you may not need to go that far. I know that’s for the vented dipstick but the principle is the same. I route mine up just under the seat and then down to the swing arm pivot and so far I haven’t had any drips. Let me know what you end up with!
Ron I’ve reached out to Trask and I’m waiting on their reply. But I’m starting to think your installation is a better design. I’m thinking their check valve which is installed in the transmission plate would prevent the oil residue In the vent hose from draining back into the crankcase. I think the way you installed your check valve higher up the hose is a better idea. Basically at the highest point in the hose before it starts loop back down.
If rerouting the hose doesn’t fix my problem I’m thinking I’ll remove their check valve still use the plate and install my own check valve at the high point in the hose.
Thanks for the update! I’m curious what Trask will say. If you end up converting it I think you’ll have good results - but that check valve will need periodic cleaning. It’s literally a 5 minute job so no big deal.
@@RonsWorkshop
So this is the response from Trask
The first thing I would check is the oil pump. While you have an aftermarket oil pump it may be the old design which is still missing the seal for the crankcase that you need.
It’s not an old style pump actually it was on back order from SS when so it’s there newest design. But I did reroute the vent hose up under the rear seat and then down along the rear fender like you did. So far after a few short rides I haven’t seen any oil spilling. But I’ll keep my eye on it for now. I will check with my dealership on the crankcase gasket and see if it was installed
Thanks for that update! Hmmmm. I’m glad the rerouting has helped. Longer rides will be the true test for sure.
Why not run the breather bolt mod directly to the transmission cover?
Hey s4nd_m4n_ - you could T the lines together and I think it would be fine. Just make sure you retain the vent line coming out of the crankcase so you’re not just pumping more pressure into the crankcase. My only question is whether or not the crankcase pressure would work against the head breathers and cause issues there.
Let me know if you give it a try!
Cars use pcv valves that maintain usually 1-2 psi in the crankcase. Why don’t You install an off the shelf pcv on a valve cover and vent it to a catch can?
Hey Dlgeis - that’s a great option that I considered, I just wasn’t sure if an automotive PCV valve would have a low enough opening pressure. There are sooooooo many options too. Which ones would work or not be well suited? So I decided to roll my own. But, at least one viewer has used a small PCV valve that seems to have worked well. It’s worth experimenting with! Let me know if you give it a try. And you can see my catch can experiments in two of the videos in this crankcase venting playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLH2H949XFljmYmV9nukq4pl4PdUrPJcVq.html
Ron, did you eliminate the intake mod and keep the transmission cover vent ? or did i miss something?
Hey D R - yep! In the last video I removed the external breather mod and in this video I checked the bolts to see how the oil deposits were. I still have the crankcase breather with a check valve. So far there is very minimal oil. Almost none. I need a few longer rides and extra checks to confirm.
@@RonsWorkshop thanks Ron
@@RonsWorkshop exactly what I’m going to do.
Let me know how it goes!!
What brand of check valve did you use and where did you purchase it ?
Hey Marsha - you should be able to get all the different sizes here: bit.ly/3Pb5BE2
Hi Ron I got a question, I noticed these check valves have a rating as far as how much pressure & vacuum they need to function properly.. so we don't know what the vacuum is in the bike how do we know if these valves will work. Some are rated in kpa & others in lbs. The one you suggest is out of stock. There are others with a lower rating would they work or would they be damaged due to excess vacuum..
Hey Chilll - you should be able to get a check valve here: bit.ly/3ZpIhEV
That’s a good question about how much vacuum there will be. I haven’t been able to measure any vacuum without introducing an external vacuum source, so more than anything it’s probably just a nice-to-have if there is ever any vacuum present. The biggest thing is alleviating the pressure. Let me know how it goes!
@@RonsWorkshop thank you so much for your great videos you're doing an awesome job...
Thanks for the kind words!
Add a 12 volt vacuum pump to your transmission cover mod.
Hey Olend - that’s a great idea and I’ve definitely considered it. We’ll see how the vacuum-ported catch can goes. I’m working on that now.
The top breather lines are on the wrong side of the butterfly valve to generate any vacuum. All you are doing by placing those lines on the outside of the throttle body in front of the throttle plate is drawing in those water and oil vapors venting from the crankcase when the crank pressurizes from heat or blow-by. Those vapors are not good for the engine, just run those lines together and down and under the bike like they have been before emission regs. That is what I have done for years with no problems.
Hey Diesel Soggydog - yeah that’s pretty much where I’m at after trying all sorts of things with crankcase venting and external breather mods 👍🏼
How do you add vacuum to the catch can
Hey James - I see two options for the vacuum canister vacuum. 1) there’s a capped off barb on the top of the throttle body that has strong vacuum 2) using some variation of the OEM porting to the throat of the throttle body, potentially drilling and tapping for a new port depending on the intake and other factors
Let me know if you decide tot suckle it! I’ll be working on that project next; I’ve got a 2-3 other videos in line before that one.
@@RonsWorkshop I'll wait for your video. Thanh you
Why is Harley Davidson not doing anything about it and will better quality oil pump ( stage 3 upgrade) alleviate the problem ?
Hey Repair Ambulance - the new oil pump is definitely an improvement. You can see more details on the improvements in my video on pulling the crank sensor to check for sumping: th-cam.com/video/F2N7kwCspQE/w-d-xo.html
Do you have any sumping symptoms? If you have any concerns you can do that quick crank sensor check. Let me know…
Thanks I've seen it later. 👍
Baxter's garage has a few videos that explains somping in a way that anybody could understand a must watch if you have this problem. #Baxter's garage #skunkworks
Hey Brian - no doubt about that. Kevin covers sumping in great detail and does a great job! He provided lots of input for me on this video as well.
How is your stock pcv system giving you crankcase vaacum? Im not suprised you couldnt measure it. My head breather openings are on the air cleaner side of the throttle valve, i have the SE big sucker air cleaner, if im riding 80mph on the interstate, i would suggest my air cleaner might have positive air pressure, at least it shouldnt have much. Would this alledged vaacum even be enough to open the umbrella valves in the rocker box? Seems like some people maybe got a phone call from epa? Just wondering.
I had people try to tell me the same thing on my diesel truck, I've got a 6inch turbo intake pipe, and a air cleaner the size of a motorcycle helmet, how does this generate enough vacuum for a 444cui engine making 18-1, I catch canned it. A diesel mechanic friend told me all those international 7.3 trucks were road tubed
All good points!
Hey, sorry for being a butthead. I'm really grateful for the videos, you are quite the tinkerer. Just caught me right when I was installing the external breather, I think it's a great mod, but we'll see. Trask cover, DK catch can.
@scottmcburney8938 no worries at all :) Trask and DK Custom both make great products.
Could I just in stall trash crank vet kit on stock 114 street glide 2019 ?
Hey Kevin - absolutely! My crankcase vent project is a DIY version of the Trask solution. Theirs seem to be a great option for venting the crankcase.
@@RonsWorkshop hi so I talk to guy at trask about putting crank kit on my 2019 Harley-Davidson street glide special 114cc built on December 21 2018 he told me that I need to have seal on back plate behind oil pump which came on 2020 and last 2019 so looks like illl need that up grade he was saying if you don't have it you will get blown by out air breather.
Hey Kevin - interesting. I knew the 2020 oil pumps were upgraded and they scavenge better. But I hadn’t heard the correlation to blowing oil out the vent. I’m not having that problem and as far as I know mine is the older style oil pump (for now 😃)
It’s worth doing some diagnosing to see if there are any sumping issues.
@@kevinquesnelle2213 Yep. If you have the timing cover off for any reason, it's wise to upgrade to the 2020 oil pump. I have the same deal with my 2019.
@@jerrybrown66 have you experienced any problems with your m8?.
Great video. I'm a little concerned as to what I should do with mine. I run cc breathers on All my bikes. HD used to vent air cleaner to the atmosphere for years. I know when I did my big bore on my Road Glide Special at 1000 miles my pistons were coated with carbon. It was caked on. That cannot be good for a motor. When I clean my CC filter the line is full of chocolate milk froth. I may try to just run the CC AC breather and plug the hole in my trans top now. Arrrrgh...lol. Thanks for the video.
Hey Timberjkd - Yeah, I understand. What about the CC vent with the stock head breathers, and then see what the bolts look like after some miles? If the bolts look good you're not getting much oil going into the intake. Also consider that catch can solution I mentioned. I think that's a strong option. I plan to give that one a shot too.
If you want a channel sticker send me a DM on Telegram or Instagram with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
@@RonsWorkshop yeah the catch can makes sense for sure, I'm going to start with the CC breather and the check valve. Then I take a look at the bolts like you said. Look forward to seeing how you go about the catch can. Take care my friends and happy belated 4th
Same to you as well!
Let me know what you find when you check the bolts.
@@RonsWorkshop I've checked them on every bike. They always seem the same. I was horrified by what I found when I opened those jugs with only 1k. Ill keep an eye out for your catch can video. If you rev those bikes they will produce more mist. It just happens. Every vehicle I've seen does the same. Thanks again
Yeah seems like the M8 balancer gear brings extra churn.
What kind check value is it
Hey Steven - If you check the video description on this video you’ll see a parts list: th-cam.com/video/U6gOhbRQrwE/w-d-xo.html
Sometimes the check valves are out of stock. Let me know what you find.
@@RonsWorkshop they were out of stock thanks sir
Ok you can also check the manufacturer’s website too:
bit.ly/3vW5ge9
bit.ly/3ywaKhk
So currently do you have the air breather mod and the crankcase vent with a valve.
Or just the crankcase with a valve thanks and great content.
Thanks for the kind words! I’m currently running the crankcase vent + check valve with the OEM breather bolts…BUT…I’m working on the vacuum-ported catch can that will combine the crankcase vent and external breather mod while still providing crankcase vacuum. There’s one video ahead of that one in the lineup.
And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
@@RonsWorkshop nice I put a check valve on my breather bolts till I figure something out , don’t like the fact there’s mist of oil in my throttle body but there’s always solutions for everything, once you get your innovation going let me know would like to check it out and try it.
I posted the video last Sunday - check it out: th-cam.com/video/5h6Apcj7DDg/w-d-xo.html
Maybe that will give you some ideas - let me know what you desire to do.
Explain the catch can vaccume
It would just allow the crankcase vent as well as the external breather mod, but still supply vacuum to the crankcase. The vacuum will be applied to the catch can and the crankcase and external breather will both go to the catch can. I'm working on that now.
@@RonsWorkshop if vacuum is crucial why not do heavy breather that way Alleviating the oil residue on the pistons by venting it out and leaving the others either alone or like you said it kept can vacuum for the crank case
The heavy breather vents almost identically to the Monster Sucker, modifying that would be similar to the mod I did.
@@RonsWorkshop I have HPI V2 with their heavy breather mod. I’m debating on the crankcase mod. Reason for the heavy breather one is no oil back in to be baked onto the piston tops. Why I wondered if just put the heavy breather mod into a loop from side to side vs into catch can or filter or open ended
That’s an interesting idea. You could do some testing with rubber hoses and a balloon or plastic bag to see what effects it has before and after in terms of alleviating the crankcase pressure.
I just did this mod last week with a check valve on my 2018 Street Glide. After riding this weekend I found a oil in the tailpipe, inside my air cleaner (Stock ai air cleaner from a 2020 Softail Lowrider , no mods,) and the breather is wet. The breather is by the back of my fender. There is oil dripping on my rear wheel and tire. The mod was done using instructions from life pranks video : th-cam.com/video/rwyyzJO73WA/w-d-xo.html. Any idea why I lost 1/2 a quart of oil and made a mess of bike. I ride at high speeds at times, but before the mod was never had this problem. Any help would be appreciated.
Hey Edward - sorry for the delay in responding. TH-cam blocked this comment and I just came across it. The one thing that comes to mind is that you may have a sumping issue. Check out the video I did on how to do a quick check, and I also cover some of the symptoms: th-cam.com/video/F2N7kwCspQE/w-d-xo.html
Let me know if that helps and if you discover anything.
I am a little unclear… why would putting an external breather remove the vacuum?
Hey Ephram - the idea is that the vacuum comes from the airflow being pulled into throttle body. When those ports are blocked, the vacuum source is removed. I haven’t been able to measure any vacuum from there, but people who know a lot more than me say that’s where the vacuum comes from. Vacuum is beneficial, but more important in my opinion is venting the ridiculously high pressure out. I hope that helps…
@@RonsWorkshop Thank you. So, maybe an external breather is actually not a good thing? Perhaps just going with the transmission cover vent (like the one you made or a Trask) is the proper solution here? I really appreciate your videos - thank you!
Thanks for the kind words!
The transmission top cover vent is definitely worth doing. You could do that mod, and at the same time remove and clean the intake bolts and clean any oil from the intake. Then run it a while and check the bolts and intake. If you don’t see a lot of oil, you could leave it alone. If you still have a lot of oil in the intake, you could add the breather mod. Let me know what you go with!
And if you want a sticker send me a DM on Telegram, Instagram or Signal with the mailing info @RonsWorkshop
Want is the purpose of keeping the vacuum in the crankcase?
Hey Kevin - for internal combustion engines in general, the vacuum is beneficial in a number of ways. There are other benefits as well, but a couple that are often cited are reducing aeration in the oil and helping piston rings seal. And the opposite of both of those work against the engine operating efficiently. Hope that helps!
One issue not discussed in void of warranty.. and mod that isnt easily removable might spell a way out for the mother company
Hey ut1004bp - that’s a valid point. I haven’t heard of any warranty issues with crankcase vents, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t any.
If anyone has any more info please add a comment.
@@RonsWorkshop I'm also wondering (as maybe you still are) the expected longevity of the in-line check valve..how about installing two back to back, but seems one might have to assume they should be replaced on oil change schedule as I just find it hard to believe they will function long with what they will be exposed to... then lends to another question..will the In-line valve last longer mounted vertically or horizontally.
@@ut1004bp I vote for simply keeping it to one. Mine is horizontal, but vertical could allow it to be at least a little bit self-cleaning. But regardless, I think we'll just have to check it and clean it periodically. It feels like a part with a limited lifespan. Maybe the reed valve on the Trask piece would be more durable, but it seems that even that would get gunked up with milky residue at some point.
@@RonsWorkshop yes, vertically, maybe that would assit in complete closure when no pressure, and the esp when vacuum occurs again
Just drill another hole in the checkm8 tranny cover, route the air intake external breather mod tube to vent into that drilled hole. And run the checkm8 with a catch can, all problems solved
Hey Aaron - thanks for the input! That could work. I recently posted a catch can video and follow up to that one as well. Here’s the first one in case you’re interested: th-cam.com/video/5h6Apcj7DDg/w-d-xo.html
@@RonsWorkshop that’s one crazy catch can and one more hose than my way. I seen a guy vent the external breather right into his tranny top cover and did no venting, just straight back into the oil pan basically. Said it had no issues he was happy. I figured it’s a good idea but why not use a trask checkm8 with a easy built in check value to keep vaccuum and she can vent when she needs… no chances of oil ever going to the breather ever this way… still get your vent… wins all around only two tubes to run. One from the breather bolts to the Trask and one from the Trask to the catch can
@@RonsWorkshop like you I thought this out over and over. And I simply can’t think of a better solution anymore so I think I finally landed on the right one. Lol
Sounds like a good one! My favorite is my original transmission top cover vent. Nice and simple but very effective.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!
I'm not buying it. I don't believe there is any appreciable vacuum being supplied to the crankcase from the throttle body. If there is, then it's not enough that the crankcase would notice it. I mean you even showed us that there was no vacuum pull at the crankcase compared to the vacuum at the throttle body. If what you're saying is true there should be as much vacuum reading at the crankcase outlet as you got at the throttle body.
Hey Don - good points. I’ve gotten confirmation from another viewer that there’s measurable vacuum in the thread of the throttle body, and that would of course pull vacuum on the crankcase if it was all ported accordingly. I plan to test this myself when I work on the other catch can mod I’ve mentioned.
I believe one issue with my attempts to measure it was that my gauge is not sensitive enough.
There is NOT a vacuum @ the breather bolts, it is air pushed out from the crankcase as the pistons move down, hook a vacuum gauge to the bolts , I bet u r wrong. This is 1 way air OUT
Hey Jack - I agree with what you you've said. Air is pushed out of the breather bolts, but the potential vacuum comes from where that gets routed to in the intake tube / backing plate etc., with the potential vacuum coming from the air entering the throttle body.
@@RonsWorkshop You do not want that oil and moisture filled mess any where near the throttle, the vacuum will pull it into the combustion chamber and bad JUJU happens
Right - so it’s a trade off of rerouting to avoid all of that hitting the throttle body vs. retaining the potential for vacuum.
@@RonsWorkshop Not really. We learned back during the Shovelheads to route the crank case to a filter or the ground, no good thing comes to an air cooled engine breathing spent gasses carrying oil and moisture. What you want is cooler dry air entering the engine to produce as much power as capable, any thing else is a fail. You have a good channel, just need a bit more research . Watching and learning and hope to help your community
Thanks for the input!
T-Man performance has a mod that totally bypasses the breather valves and routes the oil mist back to the oil tank. He then plugs the breather bolt holes on the heads. He states that if you do this mod, then you have to vent your crankcase pressure with by some other method, like the dipstick or the Trask Check M8. He does not mention anything about losing vacuum from the air cleaner.
th-cam.com/video/WB4swSegxwI/w-d-xo.html
Hey Don - sorry for the delay in responding - TH-cam blocked the comment and I just found it. Yeah, I've seen a couple of the T-Man video on their breather systems - I think they have a couple of different ones. I understand why he says you have to vent it, because you're effectively applying positive pressure if you reroute the breather bolts to the crankcase. And of course, positive pressure in the crankcase is bad. Thanks for sharing that info!
All this stuff is confusing
Hey MarvNoGood - yeah, it can be. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll try to help.
@@RonsWorkshop so I’ve been watching some more videos and it’s making a bit more sense now. So many different opinions but it seems that the best solution for the sumping issue is venting the trans cover. People were having problems with the vented dipstick and the external breather mod takes away from the vacuum. Is that correct?
You got it right! In the next day or so I’m releasing a check-up video on the crankcase vent and check valve. I’m extremely pleased with the transmission too cover vent with the check valve.
But if there’s an underlying sumping problem these are just bandaids. The sumping problem really should be addressed. After the crankcase check-up video I’m posting a video on pulling the crank sensor to check for oil, which is a great way to check for sumping.
@@RonsWorkshop so if the transmission top cover vent is made will any of the other two things be necessary?
That’s a solid approach - just the transmission too cover vent with the check valve. This weekend one releasing the check-up video on mine and you’ll be able to see how well things are working.
Buy a brand new motorcycle and then you have to do all this to it 🤦♂️
Yeah…a bit frustrating for sure.
Hi Ron. I am writing to you from Italy. I am the owner of a 2018 SB 107 with 42,000 km, bought used. Unfortunately in my language I can't find any tutorials on how to do the job to relieve the oil pressure. What I wanted to ask you is whether to relieve the pressure it is enough to make just one of the 2 modifications you made... I would do the one on the crankcase with the hidden vent. Is that enough?... Thank you for your attention. Greetings from Italy to all American brothers
Hi Pietro! Yes, just the transmission top cover vent should be enough. It works very well. This updated video may be helpful as well: th-cam.com/video/JPI3AeMfYeg/w-d-xo.html
@@RonsWorkshopThanks so much Ron.