Your comments are very interesting. I also had a Four Wheel Camper and had the same feelings with the rain and wind=no sleep! I did sell it and bought a Hallmark pop top and it’s so much better. It has a real insulated roof that does not feel like it’s going to fall apart in the wind and the rain noise is just like a real camper. I love my Hallmark so much more than the Four Wheel and feels like a real camper but you still get the benefits of the pop top.
That's great to hear! I think the NorthStar popups are better in the rain. But no popup is as quiet as a fully insulated camper. Hallmark might be a good "middle ground" option. It is nice having the lower profile. Glad it's working well for you. Thanks for sharing!
My last 2 camping trips were interrupted by major storms in the am, my pop up was so loud I couldn’t sleep at all. The wind was so bad I thought the top was going to blow off. Great video and enjoy your camper this winter!!
Thanks for sharing! We had so many similar experiences with the popup camper. Sure did love the concept of it. They look awesome with the top down while traveling.
Good analysis of YOUR experience with the pop-up camper you bought, and were unhappy with. I looked at your 4x4 brand camper, I even went to the factory (years ago) and scratched them for many of the reasons you listed that were pretty easy to anticipate. I bought a used Alaskan. Good deal, plus great camper.
Appreciate it. It all is trade offs... what works for one doesn't for another. We enjoyed our FWC camper but it was nice improving the travel comfort. There are some innovative camper builders coming to market which is great to see. This industry has been stagnant for decades.
I was lucky enough to have a Northstar 850SC pop up camper and a Lance 815 at the same time. I used both of them many times in many different weather conditions and different off-road travels. I still have my Lance 815 and sold my Northstar 850 SC. Your pros and cons were spot on.
Guys, I appreciate this video so much! Thank you for sharing your experience, very enjoyable to listen to honest feedback/comparison. I've never owned a TC and am trying to find the right one for me.
We started with hardshell, thought about trying out FWC for light weight going offroad. We never lived in FWC, after hearing your comparison, we know we cannot give up comfort to gain small benefit. Thanks for your review saving us from big mistake.
I considered buying a 4 Wheel Camper but went with a Northern Lite but I always wondered what the true differences were. Thanks to your video I now know, and I'm glad I made the choice I did! Great video!
Glad it was helpful. Fiberglass construction is cool with the Northern Lite. Just wish they would make a narrower, smaller and lighter version. Definitely way more comfortable than FWC. Thanks for sharing!!
Great video! I appreciate you guys listing the pros and cons for both styles. I'm in the beginning planning stage and as you put it it comes down to what my needs would be. I very much want to get way out on trails and I'm concerned a hard sided camper will limit me more than a pop-up, things like height, width, center of gravity, etc. Your plug at the end of upcoming videos of your trip to show how hardcore you can get with a hard sided has me intrigued. Looking forward to those videos.
I felt the same way. Really love the more compact popup while driving. However, I did find that the center of gravity can actually be the same or less with a hardwall camper. Just depends on options and how you load the camper. It hasn't been an issue with our camper so far. Width isn't a big difference 80 vs 84". Height is mostly a challenge with trees which a Dewalt Pole saw helps resolve. Hopefully our upcoming video footage will help show some of the capabilities. We had it on some rough remote 4wd tracks in Death Valley and crossed half the state of Oregon off road. Haven't needed to turn around yet! Thanks for sharing!
Much appreciated. Yes, definitely good to know more going in! FWC is great compared to a tent but there are better products available. I've been wanting to check out the Camp-X truck camper. Thanks for sharing!
I initially went to buy a pop up but after looking at both hard sided and pop up the hard sided just seemed way more comfortable I have really enjoyed it
I’ve got a 2018 Northstar Arrow and love it! I’m from South Dakota and have camped in some pretty cold temps (-10 to -20 F). I found that cracking a ceiling vent just a bit (1/2 inch) makes a huge difference in condensation and doesn’t seem to suck that much more propane. I did discover that it’s important to open all cabinet doors and especially the small doors in the kitchen and dining area that lead to the cabover. I had frost on the interior walls on these. I had opened the main cabinet doors but didn’t think about the small cubbies. Fortunately I noticed it fairly quickly and had some small fans that I ran facing the cubbies. It dried right up. Now in extremes I open all the cabinet doors a bit with no subsequent problems. I bought 2 12 volt car blankets that I use on the cabover bed to take the chill off my hard as a rock when cold memory foam mattress. I just run these long enough to heat up the bed before crawling in. Works great! I couldn’t find a 12 volt mattress cover and didn’t want to waste power with my inverter so I went with the car blankets. Been in some pretty good blizzards and it was amazingly quiet and warm. Helps to point into the wind if you can. I sometimes sleep with my head toward the kitchen side as your head doesn’t get cold and you also get less condensation as you have more space around you and a higher ceiling lying in reverse. Thanks for the awesome vids! Always look forward to seeing your mods and travels!
Excellent tips! Thanks for sharing. Those are some chilly temperatures for sure. We did notice the same thing with keeping the cabinets open and vent cracked. My wife would love the 12V blanket idea (Christmas idea - like it). Mostly we get condensation on the front nose at the end of the mattress. Maybe we should try sleeping with our heads towards the rear... hmm. I think the condensation could be from Northstar using aluminum sheeting on the nose section (not sure which year they made the switch - our 2013 was fiberglass). Do you get condensation on the front?
Ok this is my 1st time very visiting your channel 1st time....and you both are funny but he is absolutely hilarious about some of his explanations I was rolling laughing... I actually really appreciate all the helpful things I was thinking of getting the other camper now I want the hard side thanks to your explanations and it was making me laugh cuz I was picturing myself maybe getting the other camper and I'm on my knees and then you can't see unless you're trying to look at a window and the rain storm and it have to be down low it it's just hilarious and things people don't think about and I do appreciate that you are bringing it all up but it was in a very funny way and that was really great
Good review of the pros and cons. I have a Four Wheel fleet. My goal was to find the lightest camper possible since it was going on a chev Colorado z71. No way I could carry a regular camper safely. I still modified the suspension to improve over landing capabilities. Totally agree that the Four Wheel camper doesn’t have much storage and it is a royal pain to secure the turnbuckles. Also, getting in and out is a bit like entering the Apollo space capsule so you have to be flexible. However, this system provides the best way of securing the camper to truck for backcountry adventures. The Four Wheel is also very well built. Keep up the informative videos and adventures.
It is tough hauling a camper on lighter duty trucks. Weight really adds up quickly! Compact size sure is nice though. Off road adventure video to come! Thanks for sharing!!
Great video! I completely agree with you on the price of Four Wheel Campers (Crazy). However, people are willing to buy them. Hallmark Campers are crazy priced also. Thanks for sharing your pros and cons between the two.
You bet. I think most of the FWC buyers have no RV or camper experience. They are coming from roof tents or ground tenting. And it seems like crazy luxury. It's like the next step up but still fairly simplicity. That was also my transition... enjoyed it but glad to move on! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the camper comparison. I've owned a hardwall camper and really enjoyed the utility. My wife is not an outdoor type so she found fault in the hardwall camper so I bought an older 35' diesel pusher with everything (even has a washer and dryer). My wife found fault with the diesel pusher so I'm not going to try and do the impossible and make my wife happy. I'm going to retire at the end of this year. I'm going to get a new 4x4 truck and find a good used camper. I was considering the Four Wheel camper because I want to boondock but had reservations basically for the same reasons you listed. Thanks for the objective appraisal, it definitely convinced me to stay with a hardwall camper.
Very welcome! I love the idea of popup campers... been tempted many times to buy one. But then my wife reminds me of all the less desirable things. Glad to have a hardwall camper! Thanks for sharing and best to your next setup!
You are very welcome! It's sad that their business model is to capture people with lower price and the walk away price is much more... Thanks for sharing.
Probably the best review and comparison I’ve seen. Thanks Did I miss your comparison about off-roading? One vs the other and how the hard side manages being taller when your off-roading backcountry? Cheers WADZ
Much appreciated. Height is a factor either way. We carry a Dewalt pole saw for tree branch issues. Center of gravity can be a factor but really depends on camper and how it's loaded either way. I'm amazed at how many popup campers have roof racks loaded with gear. Kinda defeats the advantage of the popup. Stay tuned for our adventures so you can see where is possible with a hardwall camper. Thanks for sharing!
Going from pop up to full featured hard side required upsizing to a 250 truck from a 150. So 250 Ford reliability/ maintenance/ cost/ comfort/ efficiency vs the 150 Tundra also merits discussion to really get the full picture. Much appreciate your honest reporting of some of the downsides of the 4-wheel pop up camper, especially the noise factor. Your point about use case determining choice very true. Thank you.
Good point. That would be an interesting discussion. We sold the Tundra with 50k miles at 1.5 yrs old. Will have more to report back between the trucks in another year and more miles. Super Duty is a much more durable platform but reliably comparison after similar time would be interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks, great video and comparison! We have been in a James Baroud rooftop tent on a Subaru Outback for 3 seasons, and are now waiting (until April) to upgrade to a 4 Wheel pop-up Fleet that we'll put on a Tacoma Access cab 4x4 Offroad pickup, after the suspension is upgraded. Our decision to do this centered around better access to forest roads, and lighter weight and maneuverability. For our needs, this arrangement seemed better for living "out of it", rather than living "in it". Time will tell if we ever upgrade to a bigger truck / hard sided camper.
Very welcome! I made a very similar progression... it's fun to try new things and see how it works. Wish the Tacoma was smaller! Current generation is the exact dimensions of the original Tundra. And only 5" less than current full size. FWC fleet is ony 4" narrower than the FWC Hawk. You'll love the ability to escape the weather and stay warm. Huge advantage over roof tent. Thanks for sharing!
It's a true struggle comparing the 2, there both great in there own ways, hard to beat the low profile of a popup here in Michigan with all the wooded country and trails!!
True! All comes down to preference and usage. There is nothing perfect. All them have draw backs... just a matter of what you want. Our Dewalt pole saw has had a serious work out on different trips... but many cases tree clearing was required regardless of height.
Been shopping for a truck camper so I really appreciate your insight. But I wish I had a comparison of your Liberty vs the Northstar 850SC with insulated canvas. Happy travels!
Absolutely! Biggest difference between the Liberty and 850SC beyond one is popup and the other is not... is the overall length. Liberty has a 7ft floor length vs 8.5ft floor length. We were seriously tempted to buy another popup camper! We were walking through the different Northstar campers (popup & hardwall) at a dealership. Then it started raining. We walked in the popup and then hardwall. Could barely tell it was raining in the hardwall. Popup was rather noisy in the rain. That finalized the decision. Really it's a personal preference! And how/when you plan to use the camper. I can see a popup being ideal for summer weekend trips or week long trips. And much easier to store. Just can't beat the comfort of hardwall when traveling in poor weather or for extended periods weeks to months.
HARDSIDE ALLWAYS BUT WEIGHT IS ALSO A FACTOR THEY ARE LOT HEAVER SO U NEED A BIGER TRUCK AN ON MINE I HAD TO USE AIR BAGS EVEN ON MY 1 TON IT JUST MAKES IT SAFER IN THE WIND AN DIRT OFF ROAD DRIVING!!!! GREAT VID KEEP IT UP!!!
I owned a 2018 FWC Hawk. It was fully loaded except for the toilet. I even ordered it with the King Size pull out bed option. From the outside it was the coolest thing, especially when compared to any type of tent. Even if you spend a short amount of time inside you will really like it. However, if you spend any length of time with more than 1 person it starts to become clear that their are some short comings. These things may bother some people. I thought the build quality was excellent. Their customer service excellent. Overall design is quite nice. The problem is that it is a canvas sided camper, and it is noisy. I didn't experience a condensation problem, but I also always had a vent cracked open for fresh air. Lack of storage is another problem. My major gripe is ingress/egress out the camper. I never got used to it. If I was single, it would probably work fine for me, but throw more than myself in their, and it gets really small, really fast. The shower worked ok. It was better than nothing. Setting it up and then taking it back down each time eventually took the usefulness out of it. Options are pricey, very pricey. Mine was almost $34K. I decide after I sold it to go with a hard side. I've just waiting for the COVID to retract so I can to sit inside some other campers. You can rent them already attached to a truck. I suggest that anyone on the fence to rent it to see how much you like it, and see if it works for you . FWC has no problem selling campers, and I think that is because is a luxurious step up from their tent or RTT.
Great feedback. That for sharing your experience and thoughts! It is interesting how many of their buyers are coming from tents and roof tents. Guessing most don't shop other options...
Initially, I thought I would get a pop-up camper. (It's my first venture into RV.) I did a lot of research online and decided (not my first choice) on the Northstar 850 SC. I considered other pop-ups but they were far more expensive with fewer options/features than the Northstar. I decided on a pop-up because of the lower center of gravity, the relatively lightweight and versatility it potentially gave me. I finally went to see one in real life. I found a dealership that sold the Northstar line of campers. One of the first things I noticed about the pop-up was that the clips holding the roof down in place required a ladder of some sort for my truck for me to reach them for release. I deduced it would not be as much fun to prep the camper for occupancy when it was cold and rainy and windy. It was one of the glaring negatives that you guys slipped over. The rest you described, as I discovered on my walk through the lot. I thought the pop-up felt too closed-in with the windows all covered and there was some difficulty in getting to the bed area, a large leap for mankind and all. I toured the various hard-sided Northstars and Lances on the lot and did a test drive with a hard side camper in the truck because it was a scary thing in my head. (I had already installed the tie-downs). I decided, apart from the weight that I had never experience before, the ride was okay with such a tall camper. The insides of the hard-sided camper felt more open even though it is a small area. I eventually purchased the Laredo which is slightly larger than the Liberty you have. If I had the resources, I might have gone to the NuCamp as my first choice but I am very pleased with the Larado. Now, I am doing some upgrades that I think are necessary for a home-like feeling in some of my future travels. The hard-sided camper will limit the trails I can take. Height and center of gravity will largely limit the off-road experience for obvious reasons but I am sold on the versatility of the truck camper combination though the gas mileage sucks.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Very helpful for others trying to decide which will fit best. We had a Laredo SC previously (check earlier video review). Extra space was nice! Interesting fact. Popup campers can have the same or higher center of gravity. It depend largely on what options you have like microwave, AC and other heavy items. And how your weight is loaded. We keep only light items in the upper cabs and no heavy options (including using flexible solar panels). So the gravity center hasn't been an issue. Height is a challenge. We carry a Dewalt pole saw for cutting tree branches. Height hasn't stopped us yet! Will see in the future. But having the flexibility to drop the camper is handy too for futher trail exploration. Great thoughts!
I have had a pop camper for over 30 years but never a 4 wheel drive camper. The main reason for a pop up for my self was storage of the camper I was limited in height. The 4 wheel drive campers are one of the most expensive of the popup campers, I have a 2018 NorthStar popup camper now love it, it has a inside bathroom in it love it for all the reasons you said, Have had friends with four wheel drive campers one other problem with it is there is no front or rear windows, i camp in very hot conditions there camper were always very hot is side. one other reasons why people by 4 wheel drive is that there light ok for a 1/2 ton truck, the first popup i had was a Jayco it weighed 1800 lb dry after loading it up for a week trip i am sure i was 2500 lb. the NorthStar popup is 2350 wet then add in you equipment I am at 2800 lb . You need at least a 3/4 truck . In the cold weather camping it still has a problem with condensation and if it rains it is noise but i can still sleep, It has a very good heater in it, stays warm in it with no problem. The main reasons why stick with popup is the lower heights for off road and tree clearance
Appreciate the comparison. Very well done. It has really made me consider my options for the future. One thing you didn’t touch on to a high degree was how was it to off-road and overland with a hard sided camper? What was the comparison with a pop-up camper?
Very welcome. So far, we haven't encountered a situation where the hardwall camper hasn't been able to get through. Center of gravity isn't much different (for our camper and how we load it). Height is the main consideration. We carry a Dewalt pole saw to deal with tree branch issues which has worked fine. Stay tuned... we will be showing more remote trails and road we take it on. Then you can judge for yourself. It doesn't seem it will stop us from reaching the destinations we like. Thanks for sharing!
We have a '09 Tundra 4wd with 35" mud terrain tires, with a '12 Northstar TC650 pop up. We compared brands for probably 2+ years before pulling trigger on the Northstar. Best investment we've ever made for what we do. More water capacity (30gals + 4 in the hot water heater), and build quality is much nicer than the 4wheel campers, in spite of all the attention they've garnered comparatively. HUGE fan of the Northstar. PS, in cold conditions (15 degrees F), no noticeable condensation. Same mileage as your Ford.
Very thorough comparison, thank you. Only thing I would mention is I think FWC and Northstar are serving very different needs. The FWC really shines for people with smaller trucks who are very conscious about payload capacity. I have had other popups that had a lot more features and overall were more comfortable. However they were considerably heavier. When you mention only a 600-700lb difference, thats actually huge. The payload capacity of a Ram 2500 is only 2000lbs. So We are talking 1/3 of the trucks payload capacity. I feel like the Northstar is an awesome 4 season camper for people with really beefy suspension who maybe don't need to offroad much. I think the aluminum frame of the FWC would handle the flexing of off roading a bit better. Thanks again for the video.
FWC is way, way too heavy for small trucks and exceeds capacity of light duty full size trucks. Campers with similar features and gear are very similar in weight. FWC are marketed to be light weight but reality is they are not light. Maybe lighter than some campers but they are bare bones. I enjoyed our FWC coming from roof tents and vehicle camping. But I've gone further off road with the Northstar and rougher terrain. But everything is a compromise. Love the low profile and slightly narrower width of the FWC while traveling. Otherwise, hardwall is better for everything else; no contest. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@TruckCamper When I say small I'm really referring to a 250/2500. The weight of my Hawk is 1100lbs, and it is admittedly very utilitarian. I also tow a boat. So with 1100 pounds with no gear, gas, people etc. Then I add in 2 people, lots of gear and the tongue weight of my boat, I'm still under my payload capacity. I don't really think any other truck camper is going to provide that. As I mentioned above, 600-700lbs is a lot of weight when we are talking payload capacity. Side note, I'd never try to put a camper on a 1/2 ton or less. If I could get away with the weight of a hardwall I'd be all over it. Popping the top up and down is a PITA!
@@MrFuckface2013 Have you looked at Total Composites? They are making hardwall shells that are even lighter than the FWC. Camp-X is another company using composite construction technology but in popup form. Both are the lightest construction available with real insulation r-value. Glad to see some new developments!!! FWC hasn't had to innovate in 40yrs and the market still accepts their products. Crazy because they keep increasing pricing. Glad to see more innovative competition!
very informative video. i'm researching truck campers & campervans now. i have a 1/2 ton F150 so a a hard side is not an option for me. i personally was looking at the Northstar 650TC. i feel it's more camper for the money over the fourwheeler.
Yes Northstar is a good value for features. But definitely be careful on weight. Be sure to scale your truck with passengers and full tank to determine remaining weight capacity. Figure at least 500lbs in addition to camper weight. It is possible with a F150 but need to be rather selective. Have fun!
Just found your channel, great video! I like that you didn't fall into the diesel truck trap. I too purchased a gas F350 dually to carry a truck camper. The only drawback thus far that i can see is limited fuel range. Have you noticed this as an issue? thanks for the great videos. Subscribed today😁
Thanks so much! Diesel is sweet for the power and better mpg. But too heavy, complicated and expensive. Plus we like to visit Baja and fuel quality issues. Take a look at our earlier truck build video. We have built a custom auxiliary 21 gallon tank. So 55 gallons total. Easily travel over 500 miles even off road. Game changer! We've been 10-11mpg average with the camper. With the best tank being 13.5mpg. So not terrible considering it is lifted on 37s. But would love it to be better. Miss our old Winnebago View (Sprinter) that averaged 17mpg. More fun stuff to come... :)
@@TruckCamper I have an 18 Ram 3500 long bed with 35's. His name is Big Red. I'm so glad I found your channel. Really great and sensical presentation. Ty you guys. I'm gonna basically live in my rig, though I have an industrial base. Really appreciated this info. Definitely saving for reference.
I've owned both. I don't get the easier loading and unloading though. They're basically the same footprint from the floor to where it comes to the box wall. Either one takes me 5 min on, 1 min off. Don't forget the hardwalls get more wind noise, are MUCH more affected by a full cross wind and you're often not able to clear drive throughs and low hanging branches.
Haven't noticed the wind noise. FWC has manual jacks... rather difficult and cumbersome. Our hardwall has wireless powered jacks which is slick. Height can be a challenge but often an issue with either camper. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
That is a great popup camper! We did walk through it. Definitely better than FWC in many ways. But we prefer the additional insulation and quieter inside for the hardwall camper. All trade offs. Thanks for sharing!!
We have a Hallmark Milner, 30gal water, 30 gal propane, fiberglass walls, overhesd cabinets, large fridge and lots of storage. One piece fiberglass roof and all the other amenities. Little heaver than a FWC but wayyyy more usefull , Not made for a 1/2 ton, but some people do. I like staying within GVWR. Comes with Polar pack as FWC charges $750,00 more..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those are nice campers! Much higher level than the FWC. And realistically... not that much more expensive after you "option out" a FWC. They are such a rip off for upgrades. How have you enjoyed the Milner?
Glad it could be helpful. We haven't been held back yet with the new camper. Our Super Duty is more capable than the Tundra. But the Tundra had the popup camper. Tundra was better for go fast style. Super Duty with hardwall is more enjoyable for spending time in locations. Thanks for sharing!
Northstar Liberty seems like the logical choice for you...I am also considering a lighter hardside such as the Liberty..I don't own a truck yet but would be looking for a 3/4 ton tugger for this would put me in safe territory.
We've been enjoying it so far!! Large as needed small as possible. Good value camper for what you get. Just stay away from Ram 2500... it has coil rear suspension and a mess carrying weight. Thanks for sharing!
If you're going to haul a hard sided truck camper, always err on the side of caution when purchasing a truck. My 1 ton ram has a payload capacity of 4321 lbs and with my northern lite that weighs 2750 dry, I've managed to be right at max GVWR when loaded down without adding the ~36 gal of water to the tank and not getting crazy with accoutrements(except the cast iron pan. Have to have the cast iron pan.) Most hard sided TCs on the road are at or over GVWR with SRW trucks. Just food for thought. :-)
@@sad754yt That's great it is working well for you! Many others have had weight handling issues... I prefer the simplicity of leaf springs. Thanks for sharing your experience.
We have a 97 Dodge diesel 2500 but leaf springs in the back. Is that something they changed with the new millennium? Or is it because the original owner ordered it like that? I appreciate everyone's input because we are trying to determine our actual payload and keep being told different things.
How about this category: The garage. My Tundra and FWC Hawk fit in my garage. The rain noise is not as bad as you make it sound, in fact, my wife likes the sound. The other issue with your video is you need to tell it like it is. The FWC has an aluminum frame that is lighter and won't rot BUT, there is foam insulation in both the walls and roof. My turnbuckles never loosen, I am trying to figure out what you're doing here. I never had any problems with condensation but that's maybe because we live in Oregon. Actually, a 700 - 800 pound difference might not make a difference if you have a big V-8. If you have a V-6 like I do, it does make a big difference.
Yes, the FWC is great for typical garage parking. I raised the roof on the last house to fit the Tundra and FWC inside. We were just over 8ft in height. Noise is a factor for many... I'm surprised nobody talks about it with popups. Wind. Basically any sound as you're in a tent. Sometimes it doesn't matter but many times difficult for light sleepers. I lived in Oregon with the FWC and had 160 nights in it after 9 months. Traveled from Baja to BC and all over the SW. So I do have a good experience basis for comparison... condensation was only a non issue in the summer when windows were open and limited temperature differential. So guess it depends on how you use it. It was a huge factor for us! Especially in the winter and snow. FWC entire base is wood. Only the walls and roof is aluminum. So they can rot the same as any camper. Don't get me wrong. I loved adventures with the FWC... but they are a rip off for the money. And certainly not perfect. Thanks for sharing your experience too!
You guys review knocked it OUT OF THE PARK ! I concur with C Ogden. Chris had EXACTLY the same conundrum quagmire & conclilusion as you did. Strongly considering the dated Alaskan now bc the main priorities are warmth shelter good sleep or what's the point of the camper ?
i believe in some places, the pop-up camper can be left on the truck and legally parked where the hard-sided one cannot (like in an area where the HOA makes the rules)
Yes, that could be a possibility. Our past HOA didn't allow for anything popup or not. But good to check into. And popup is easier to fit into a garage with a rolling cart. We have been in bear country where national parks won't allow popups. So that's also something to consider... We encountered that in Canada as well. Thanks for sharing!
Hey there! Are yall fulltiming in your camper? Whereabouts is your stomping grounds? What do you do for the inevitable condensation under the bed in colder weather? I am fulltiming in Montana, so this is a huge problem for me. The hypervent system I have from factory is almost worthless and I have to prop up the bed once every few days to dry the underside of my mattress and its platform off, or else face mold or a destroyed mattress. Fun! I've seen people use pegboard propped up on another few segments of more pegboard, then hypervent on top of that and it seems to remedy the situation.
Not full time, yet. May next year. Our trips have lasted 3-4 months at a time though. We are based in Arizona. Haven't noticed the under mattress area getting damp or wet. Did monitor it while traveling in the snow. There are a couple good systems for under mattress ventilation. Seems like something you definitely should do full time in Montana! Thanks for sharing your ideas. :)
Great comparison! I agree that the more time spent, the more the hard shell makes sense. What about Northern Lite truck campers (fiberglass clamshell) or a Kingstar truck campers (steel frame hard sided) as compared with your Northstar Liberty? You said your Liberty is wood-framed. Isn't a steel framed camper stronger for off-roading or overlanding? The Northern Lite's apparently have no frame and use the fiberglass shell. Have you seen off roaders use the Northern Lite? I've seen one TH-camr using one and he swears by it. The build quality on your Liberty looks good from what I can see.
Thanks!! Northern Lite and Bigfoot were high on the evaluation list when I was researching. Trouble is they are wide and heavy! Not ideal for off road or rough terrain. I haven't looked at Kingstar. Typically I would prefer aluminum framing. But not as excited after dealing with the condensation issues of the Four Wheel Camper. I did a ton of research on wood. There are tons of advantages... excellent strength for weight, much better insulation and easy to repair or remodel. Downside is that wood rots. So you need to ensure regular maintenance. But really need to do this with all campers anyhow. So far, we found it to be well insulated and quiet inside. And it's survived some extremely rough terrain. The next most intriguing camper is the composite panel campers. But they are newer and not many builders yet. Hope that helps!
@@TruckCamper Thank you so very much! Yes that helps a lot. Yes I noticed that the Northern Lite is about 3000lbs and was surprised in how light is yours! I guess a big factor with wood strength is how they put it together, with staples vs nails vs screws, etc.. I know a lot of builders use the 'stick and staple' method for speed and cost, which is not good for strength. Great to hear your camper is holding up! Enjoy your freedom and traveling!
I really enjoyed this video. I have been doing a lot of research, trying to decide what to get and until your video, I didn't even consider a hard shell camper. I have a 2012 Toyota Tacoma, I don't plan to get a bigger truck, do you know of a hard shell camper that will fit my 6ft. bed? Thanks again.
I love the Toyota Tacoma. I had a 2013 Tacoma and 1998 Tacoma. The biggest issue is they just don't have the weight capacity to haul campers. Your best option would be to look at something like the "Go Fast Camper" or possibly something that AT Overland builds. We have a buddy who put a Four Wheel Camper on his Tacoma. It has caused stress cracks in the frame mounts. They just get heavy fast. Four Wheel Camper makes a "shell" version which is rather basic but less weight. We ran the Four Wheel Camper Hawk on the 2016 Tundra but it was fairly significantly over the GVWR and right at the GAWR. It worked fine but a bit hefty for the truck. I love the Tacoma platform but I think they designed it for the American market which apparently prefers to "tow" more than "haul or carry". I hate trailers but it might be another option for the Tacoma. Hope that helps!
Thank you for all the information that you provided for us thank you I have a question I decided to go to tour around the United States by myself and probably in Europe tour and I was thinking to get the pop-up trailer and I want to hear your opinion what do you think thank you
I have a 2010 FWC on a 2005 Tundra. I love it but as i get older i want to be able to leave the bedding set up and have the bathroom feature at night. So i am looking at getting the northstar … but wonder about weight …the old tundras are more like the weight bearing of a tacoma now. … i wonder what kind of truck you have …and what you know about this topic … I definitely enjoyed your comparison and agree with lots of it. I love my heater and kitchen in the Four Wheel though. Thanks
We have a Ford Super Duty. It's a good idea to step up to a HD level truck for heavier campers. Our camper is around 2k lbs empty and 3k lbs loaded on trips. Having a stronger frame, brakes, axles and more powerful motor and stronger transmission is important. We have lots of videos show more details on the Northstar camper (check them out). Hope that can help give you ideas!
Thanks for your awesome comparison of the two styles of campers. I've been going back and forth between a popup or hardtop. Mainly due to I will be camping all seasons in Canada, BC, and need a camper that can handle it well. Not sure which one to get though. By the way, how's the F250 Gas mileage like?
Glad it could be helpful. Just a matter of deciding what is most important to you! We are 10-11mpg mostly. Best was 13.5mpg. 9mpg off road in 4wd for days. Not bad considering the height, weight and 37" tires. Thanks for sharing!
Have enjoyed watching your videos. We have a 2011 Tundra double cab 4x4 and we had a pop up camper for a couple years, and it was over our payload, although we added air bags, and e rated tires. Thinking of going back to a tc, probably a hard side like yours. I know we would have to upgrade our truck to a 250 or 350. We like boondocking on Forest Servive or BLM lands. How did you decide on a 250 vs a 350, and how about a long bed vs a 6.5 bed? We want to stay with a double cab because of two dogs.Thanks again for your helpful video.
Tundra is a great rig. But does max out quickly! I owned a 2010 and 2016 Tundra. This video talks about F250 vs F350: th-cam.com/video/BndKVscVrFI/w-d-xo.html Our earlier videos show our crew cab and replacement extended cab. We really like the 148" wheelbase with the extended short bed. Note the short bed is 6ft9in (bit longer than most). Turning radius is the biggest factor for bed length and cab size. Tundra has awesome turning radius. HD trucks are not as good... then extend the length and they are less ideal to maneuver. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the quick reply and link to the 250 vs 350 video. One other question - srw vs duallies. How about that option for off road or dirt Forest service roads, pros and cons?
@@paulchristiansen9633 I'd only go dually if you really need it for weight capacity. Extra width, worse turning radius and more tire cost. Plus no factory rear locking diff option. So really only one upside...
My 2015 F250 4x4 ,crew cab, long bed only has a 2000lb payload capacity. For me I feel like a somewhat bare bones FWC is my only option? This video gave me a lot to think about. Thanks
There are many better light truck campers: Camp-X, Scout, Hallmark, Phoenix and a bunch more. You could modify your suspension to carry additional weight as well. But it would be good to keep the base camper weight as low as possible. Hope that helps!
It does great off road. Check out some of our other videos... Center of gravity isn't bad. Most of the weight is down low. Our jacks are removed and stored under the camper, no microwave, no roof AC, flexible solar panels... It looks crazy tall but handles off road rather similar to the popup. Biggest downside is requiring to trim a few tree branches that we could have driven under with the popup. But often the tree cutting would have been required for either camper. We enjoy the hardwall overall much more... especially for long travel. Not all campers are built the same and center of gravity can vary greatly between campers, options and how they are loaded. It takes careful attention to detail to get a truck/camper to handle well off road.
Great video, I really enjoyed the comparison by someone that has real experience with both. I do like Fourwheel Campers in concept, but haven’t actually used or stayed in one. I camp in an Alaskan Camper and had a Lance camper before that. I really love my Alaskan as it’s a pop up but with hard walls when raised. The only thing it lacks is the shower, it does have a toilet, although not as nice as the Northstar you have. I think the Alaskan has a far superior dinette though. You do have a better bed in the Northstar since you can sleep north south. Would actually be interesting to do a video comparison between an Alaskan and the Norhtstar. I’ve never seen a Northstar in person but it looks really appealing.
Glad it was helpful. I don't think there is any perfect camper. It seems everything has trade-offs of comfort, size and cost. There are a number of campers I'd like to review. I'm mostly interested in manufacturers who are innovative and bringing new ideas or functionality. The camper industry seems slow to improve and adapt. I'm amazed at how companies such as Four Wheel Camper can make limited improvements over a decade. Yet, the price keeps marching up. Thanks for sharing!!
Re weight, there are some new, relatively lightweight hard-sided campers like the AT Overland Aterra (dry weight 1150 lbs). Same thing with Total Composites camper shells, which you can build out yourself or hire someone to build out for you. Also, re windows (and to be fair to pop-ups), plenty of them have windows at eye level. That FWC window setup is strange.
All the camper end similar in weight after loading assuming similar features and capacity regardless of construction type. Another guy built a Alterra camper on Super Duty similar to ours. He weighs nearly 1000lbs more than us loaded for a trip. Essentially the same truck build and components. Flatbeds do add weight. I've experienced the same situation with FWC as well. Listed weights are deceptive; real world loaded weight is much more. HD trucks are the best option for any slide in camper. True on the windows. Although many popup campers are taller and have bigger more functional lower windows. FWC windows are nearly pointless for looking out of. Sadly they won't build them without windows (which would be my preference for thermal efficiency). Thanks for sharing
Those are nice units!!! But for the cost... you could buy 2-3 or our campers! No popup camper will be as quiet or insulated as a hardwall camper. Have fun!
Northstar popup are cheaper than their hardwall campers (low to mid $20k range). Four Wheel Camper starts at $20k but not really functional with options until over $30k. Hope that helps!
The wind noise would be a deal breaker. Not having instant availability also a problem for myself… much prefer the road trip instant availability of a full sized camper.
Definitely an advantage for the hardwall camper! We've been in 50mph winds and barely noticeable inside. Popups sound as if the roof will rip off. No idea how people sleep in the wind with popups. Thanks for sharing!
Yes. I posted a link to the build video on your other comment. Check out our other videos for details on the truck. It drives great on / off road. We have numerous videos showing the off road adventures. Check them out! :)
Thank you for this useful video , we were thinking to get a FWC with F250 , after watching your video , we think Liberty may be more comfortable for us , but we found the height is 11 feet from bottom to the top , that may hit our roof edge of drive way , do you have any suggestion for us ? btw, do you have any difficulty when you go to gas station ?
Keep in mind our truck has about 6in lift over stock with the 37s and suspension. The 11ft height is to the top of the roof vent which is maybe 4in taller than the roof. Plus we raised the camper 2in for the basement storage. So the stock camper on a stock truck is 10+ inches shorter. All bridges and gas stations are plenty tall generally 13-15ft minimum. Haven't had any issues with that. But good to consider where you will drive and park the camper! Hope that helps.
You'd need about 9ft clearance and build a short rolling platform to set the camper on. Jacks in the lowest position to the roof is just under 9ft. Hope that helps!
We have a full queen size (residential) foam mattress. It's amazing!! That's true. Soft sided can be limited in certain areas - totally forgot about that! It has a removable cassette for the toilet (black) and grey tank under (which we removed). Thanks for sharing!
@@TruckCamper what did you think about the Kimbo? The Scout does look very interesting and versatile, you can cook inside or outside, leave your domestic fridge inside or take with you outside.
I'm curious, you stated your Liberty is just over 10 ft but your image in the video says it's 11' 1". Then you say the pop up was 8'. So it was only a 2' difference. I assume you made a mistake but 8' up to 11' is 3' in difference.
Correct. We were originally just over 10ft with the truck. I hadn't remeasured since completing the truck suspension and camper basement storage. That increased the height another 8" or so. Of course, the Tundra was a much shorter truck with smaller tires. Our F250 bed height is 43". So the overall difference between the campers is probably closer to 2.5ft (if mounted on the same truck).
We've considered it. There are some disadvantages to consider: cost, flatbeds increase bed height (for tire clearance) ie higher center of gravity - more top heavy, additional weight (these factory aluminum truck beds are light), possible decrease in truck resale value (less appeal to market when selling). It is a great benefit having extra storage (if needed) but need to consider you may have issues with dust/water infiltration. We really don't need the extra storage space with the rear truck seats removed and "basement" storage conversion under the camper (check older videos for details).
Much thanks! Northstar Liberty camper exterior tag weight is 2,188lbs. Their website lists it at 1,775lbs. Ours is highly modified so don't know the exact weight of the camper now. 40gallon water tank added the biggest chunk. Fully loaded for 10+ days off grid with all tanks full included 55gallons of fuel and 2 people we are 10,800lbs. It drops off as water, food and fuel go down. Works really well. Our latest trip videos will be coming soon!
@@TruckCamper thanks man appreciate the reply. I recently finished a diy steel frame flat bed truck camper. It had aluminum walls and roof. On a 1st gen tundra with a diy steel flatbed. Dry weight of truck and camper 6450lbs. The truck had air bags, and modified 5 leaf spring setup. I’m in LA so if you guys want to check it out hit me up.
@@TruckCamper it was quite the undertaking. I’m glad it’s over lol. Now I’m tweaking it here and there. We love going to the desert are with our two dogs. Mainly pioneertown, and Joshua tree. It’s nice to get away from town these days. Here is my contact gilibartal@gmail.com
We did look at them. Don't like the design. Bed panels fold onto bed area. Think mud, dirt, wet, snow... all coming inside the space. It is crazy outdated. Not a bad concept but expensive and needs major overhaul in modernization. Thanks for sharing!
Your condemning the Alaskan from a distance. They are still being produced for good reason. They are custom built so you can have the features that fit you best. My main complaint is the std over cab bed is too narrow for 2 full size people. I bought mine used, so, good price/value, but didn’t get to order the wider bed. They are a great low height on the road travel camper. A lot of the complaints on your pop-up do not apply to the Alaskan Campers. You should have done more research before buying the cheaper pop-up that you bought.
@@cliffmorgan31 Appreciate your view and support of the Alaskan. It wasn't from a distance that we chose to not buy one... I do like the concept but the execution is lacking. And the setup/take down is more complicated and time consuming than the FWC. It's great it works for you but not a good fit for us. Also the center of gravity it higher on Alaskan campers than a FWC. Our current Northstar is tall but center of gravity is lower than some popups because most of the weight is low. Basically, everything is a trade off. What fits one person won't fit another and that's okay. Most people won't buy a camper as small as ours. Thanks for sharing!
I've had two northern lites(have a 2020 now), and a 2006 alaskan camper. I full time in them, so the Alaskan isn't as practical because it doesn't have a shower....but...I did love it. It was a very well built camper, was durable, and got great MPGs on my old cummins...like 15-17mpg good. By comparison, woth my 2000 northern lite 10-2000 I was achieving 11.5 mpg due to the massive drag that big camper had. Also, resale was excellent on the alaskan. I bought it for 9800 and sold it for 13,500 after a year of use. Good luck doing that with any other camper!
A bit late to the party but, your views are still valied. I saw a new Supertramp LT video & thought maybe so I checked up on price, it starts at OMG $60K for basic. Clearly popup manufacturers are keen to rip customers off, 60k & NO engine ridiculous!
Yeah... anything "overland" or considered capable costs 2x the amount of money and has less features. Rather comical looking at overland equipment and then the RV world which has overkill on gadgets and features. Our NorthStar camper continues to be a reasonable value, comfort and capable. And my wife likes it! :)
What a lovely couple you are. Your wife is gorgeously hot... the way she looks at you is with total admiration and respect. ...but it is always a two-way street. I see that you cherish her and value her counsel and voice. You are a gentleman and therefore deserve such a beautiful connected relationship (married I think;and hope?). ...and you Ms., exude such vibrancy and zest for life and your journey together with your man. I aspire to one day have something so beautiful. Thank you for your honest and forthright comparison in your review and experiences with the campers. Your transparency is undeniable and therefore trustworthy. You will continue to grow and live an amazing purposeful life. Thank you for your amazing example that went beyond this simple and clear review. All the best and kindest regards, -Eduardo
While this is a good review, you guys didn't cover travel ability. How 2as the 4 wheel off road? Did it give you better access to campsites you might not have got otherwise? Did it feel more secure on off camber or severely rutted roads, did it inspire more confidence you can make it out and back intact vs the wood Northstar? Did it crack from the stresses and leak? Did the northstar? I've seen people with Northstars complain the attachment brakets break thru the wood. For a couple, few days in the woods or way out there, which was best considering?
We've actually gone further off road with the Liberty (hard side camper) but it has required use of the dewalt pole saw at times (tree branches). Biggest advantage has been comfort (especially in the cold) and more water/battery capacity (for extending duration). Popup campers can be better for off camber but much of the COG (center of gravity) is in how the camper is equipped and loaded. No cracks or leaks (after 4 years). Choice depends on the comfort you desire. For long distance travel over short periods (overland style) I'd consider a popup for the bump in hwy fuel mileage. But you can't beat a hard side camper for comfort!! We wouldn't go back.
Interesting, is that a f350? I get the comfort, had a viking pop up camper, bathroom set up similar to a modern palomino ss1251. That camper did start busting apart (wood) over the trails. Was very warm in 5, 10° weather. Used for dirt bike trips as well. Wind didnt bother it on road and not too intolerable parked in 50 mph stuff or driving snow. In the market now for either a fourwheel hawk type or maybe ss1251. Will carry a dirt bike on rack front or back, maybe both at times and or tow jeep. Seen some Northernlites I like as well but not willing to upgrade truck. (2500 hd)
@CBWANADA Our truck is a F250 with fairly extensive upgrades. There is definitely a big range of camper quality. I'd say most are not durable enough for rough off road travel.
Make sure you know if you need a 3 or 4 season camper, whether it's a soft or hard top. Do you want to camp in a soft top, where you are mostly outside? Or do you want to basically mobile home it in a hard top, where you are mostly inside? If you want both, you get the hard top pop up, Alaskan camper. I like them all better than TT that are pull behind. campovrlnd.com/products/ovrlnd-pop-top-camper
I agree, trailers are a major hassle and hindrance to exploration. Being able to escape the weather makes overland adventures more enjoyable for longer term. Weekend trips... no big deal. Or summer weather. We've done plenty of both. Thanks for sharing!
You guys made some great points. I was considering a Four Wheel pop up camper, but changed my mind after watching your video.
Glad you found it helpful. Thanks for sharing!
Your comments are very interesting. I also had a Four Wheel Camper and had the same feelings with the rain and wind=no sleep! I did sell it and bought a Hallmark pop top and it’s so much better. It has a real insulated roof that does not feel like it’s going to fall apart in the wind and the rain noise is just like a real camper. I love my Hallmark so much more than the Four Wheel and feels like a real camper but you still get the benefits of the pop top.
That's great to hear! I think the NorthStar popups are better in the rain. But no popup is as quiet as a fully insulated camper. Hallmark might be a good "middle ground" option. It is nice having the lower profile. Glad it's working well for you. Thanks for sharing!
Great video guys. I love thé honest review and you’re direct clear style. Thanks!
Thanks for the comment! :)
Love your pros and cons and being so honest
Appreciate it. There certainly is nothing perfect. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! So many questions answered!!
Very welcome! Thanks for sharing.
My last 2 camping trips were interrupted by major storms in the am, my pop up was so loud I couldn’t sleep at all. The wind was so bad I thought the top was going to blow off. Great video and enjoy your camper this winter!!
Thanks for sharing! We had so many similar experiences with the popup camper. Sure did love the concept of it. They look awesome with the top down while traveling.
Thanks. Plenty of information. Couldn’t see my spouse dealing with explained disadvantages of the Four Wheel Camper. Eye opener.
Yeah. It's fun compared to tent camping... but rather expensive compared to other options! Thanks for sharing.
Good Vid. I am building out a truck camper and have decided on a hard side. This vid helps confirm I am making the right decision. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful! We have really been enjoying ours. Keeping weight as low as possible helps for off road. Keep us posted on how you like it.
This was very helpful! Interesting the cost comparison, noise, and condensation issues.
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for making this video; it will help me make a more informed decision!
Very welcome! Appreciate you sharing. :)
Your video are always detailed with great info
Appreciate it! Thanks for sharing...
Excellent comparison...very comprehensive- a major aid in decision making!
Thanks! Glad it was helpful. Always good to consider the pros and cons. There is nothing perfect for everything! :)
This is exactly what I was looking for
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for sharing!
Good analysis of YOUR experience with the pop-up camper you bought, and were unhappy with. I looked at your 4x4 brand camper, I even went to the factory (years ago) and scratched them for many of the reasons you listed that were pretty easy to anticipate. I bought a used Alaskan. Good deal, plus great camper.
Appreciate it. It all is trade offs... what works for one doesn't for another. We enjoyed our FWC camper but it was nice improving the travel comfort. There are some innovative camper builders coming to market which is great to see. This industry has been stagnant for decades.
Really great video. Thank you!
Absolutely! Thanks for sharing. :)
I was lucky enough to have a Northstar 850SC pop up camper and a Lance 815 at the same time. I used both of them many times in many different weather conditions and different off-road travels. I still have my Lance 815 and sold my Northstar 850 SC. Your pros and cons were spot on.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Guys, I appreciate this video so much! Thank you for sharing your experience, very enjoyable to listen to honest feedback/comparison. I've never owned a TC and am trying to find the right one for me.
Absolutely!! Thanks for sharing.
Really good run-down of the pros and cons.
Much appreciated! Glad it was helpful
We started with hardshell, thought about trying out FWC for light weight going offroad. We never lived in FWC, after hearing your comparison, we know we cannot give up comfort to gain small benefit. Thanks for your review saving us from big mistake.
Very welcome! FWC seems better than what it is... but overall small capability exchange for comfort. Thanks for watching!
I considered buying a 4 Wheel Camper but went with a Northern Lite but I always wondered what the true differences were. Thanks to your video I now know, and I'm glad I made the choice I did! Great video!
Glad it was helpful. Fiberglass construction is cool with the Northern Lite. Just wish they would make a narrower, smaller and lighter version. Definitely way more comfortable than FWC. Thanks for sharing!!
Good choice!
Great video! I appreciate you guys listing the pros and cons for both styles. I'm in the beginning planning stage and as you put it it comes down to what my needs would be. I very much want to get way out on trails and I'm concerned a hard sided camper will limit me more than a pop-up, things like height, width, center of gravity, etc. Your plug at the end of upcoming videos of your trip to show how hardcore you can get with a hard sided has me intrigued. Looking forward to those videos.
I felt the same way. Really love the more compact popup while driving. However, I did find that the center of gravity can actually be the same or less with a hardwall camper. Just depends on options and how you load the camper. It hasn't been an issue with our camper so far. Width isn't a big difference 80 vs 84". Height is mostly a challenge with trees which a Dewalt Pole saw helps resolve. Hopefully our upcoming video footage will help show some of the capabilities. We had it on some rough remote 4wd tracks in Death Valley and crossed half the state of Oregon off road. Haven't needed to turn around yet! Thanks for sharing!
You guys are awesome!!!!
Thanks so much! Appreciate the encouragement
Good, informative video. Even if someone decides to buy the 4w camper this info is good to know before they buy. Thanks!
Much appreciated. Yes, definitely good to know more going in! FWC is great compared to a tent but there are better products available. I've been wanting to check out the Camp-X truck camper. Thanks for sharing!
Awesome comparison
Thank you! Appreciate you sharing.
I initially went to buy a pop up but after looking at both hard sided and pop up the hard sided just seemed way more comfortable I have really enjoyed it
Yeah... hard to beat the comfort factor! Popup are fun but more tent like... thanks for sharing!
I’ve got a 2018 Northstar Arrow and love it!
I’m from South Dakota and have camped in some pretty cold temps (-10 to -20 F). I found that cracking a ceiling vent just a bit (1/2 inch) makes a huge difference in condensation and doesn’t seem to suck that much more propane.
I did discover that it’s important to open all cabinet doors and especially the small doors in the kitchen and dining area that lead to the cabover. I had frost on the interior walls on these. I had opened the main cabinet doors but didn’t think about the small cubbies. Fortunately I noticed it fairly quickly and had some small fans that I ran facing the cubbies. It dried right up. Now in extremes I open all the cabinet doors a bit with no subsequent problems. I bought 2 12 volt car blankets that I use on the cabover bed to take the chill off my hard as a rock when cold memory foam mattress. I just run these long enough to heat up the bed before crawling in. Works great! I couldn’t find a 12 volt mattress cover and didn’t want to waste power with my inverter so I went with the car blankets. Been in some pretty good blizzards and it was amazingly quiet and warm. Helps to point into the wind if you can. I sometimes sleep with my head toward the kitchen side as your head doesn’t get cold and you also get less condensation as you have more space around you and a higher ceiling lying in reverse.
Thanks for the awesome vids! Always look forward to seeing your mods and travels!
Excellent tips! Thanks for sharing.
Those are some chilly temperatures for sure. We did notice the same thing with keeping the cabinets open and vent cracked. My wife would love the 12V blanket idea (Christmas idea - like it). Mostly we get condensation on the front nose at the end of the mattress. Maybe we should try sleeping with our heads towards the rear... hmm. I think the condensation could be from Northstar using aluminum sheeting on the nose section (not sure which year they made the switch - our 2013 was fiberglass).
Do you get condensation on the front?
Very nice video. Thanks for the advice.
Absolutely. Appreciate the encouragement!
Excellent points. I'll be going hard side when I pull the trigger on a truck camper. Enjoy your adventures. :)
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for checking out our videos. :)
helpful information! thanks a bunch.
Very welcome. Thanks for sharing!
You guys are decent. Nice couple. And greatvideo btw. I think you have me convinced towards the hard side camper.
Thanks for the kind words!! Everything is a trade off... but comfort is hard to beat with hardside camper. Have fun!
Ok this is my 1st time very visiting your channel 1st time....and you both are funny but he is absolutely hilarious about some of his explanations I was rolling laughing... I actually really appreciate all the helpful things I was thinking of getting the other camper now I want the hard side thanks to your explanations and it was making me laugh cuz I was picturing myself maybe getting the other camper and I'm on my knees and then you can't see unless you're trying to look at a window and the rain storm and it have to be down low it it's just hilarious and things people don't think about and I do appreciate that you are bringing it all up but it was in a very funny way and that was really great
Welcome to the channel! Glad we could be entertaining and helpful... Thanks for sharing. :)
Good review of the pros and cons. I have a Four Wheel fleet. My goal was to find the lightest camper possible since it was going on a chev Colorado z71. No way I could carry a regular camper safely. I still modified the suspension to improve over landing capabilities. Totally agree that the Four Wheel camper doesn’t have much storage and it is a royal pain to secure the turnbuckles. Also, getting in and out is a bit like entering the Apollo space capsule so you have to be flexible. However, this system provides the best way of securing the camper to truck for backcountry adventures. The Four Wheel is also very well built. Keep up the informative videos and adventures.
It is tough hauling a camper on lighter duty trucks. Weight really adds up quickly! Compact size sure is nice though. Off road adventure video to come! Thanks for sharing!!
Very good information thanks.
Very welcome! Thanks for sharing. :)
Great video! I completely agree with you on the price of Four Wheel Campers (Crazy). However, people are willing to buy them. Hallmark Campers are crazy priced also. Thanks for sharing your pros and cons between the two.
You bet. I think most of the FWC buyers have no RV or camper experience. They are coming from roof tents or ground tenting. And it seems like crazy luxury. It's like the next step up but still fairly simplicity. That was also my transition... enjoyed it but glad to move on! Thanks for sharing.
@@TruckCamper right on.
Thanks for the camper comparison. I've owned a hardwall camper and really enjoyed the utility. My wife is not an outdoor type so she found fault in the hardwall camper so I bought an older 35' diesel pusher with everything (even has a washer and dryer). My wife found fault with the diesel pusher so I'm not going to try and do the impossible and make my wife happy. I'm going to retire at the end of this year. I'm going to get a new 4x4 truck and find a good used camper. I was considering the Four Wheel camper because I want to boondock but had reservations basically for the same reasons you listed. Thanks for the objective appraisal, it definitely convinced me to stay with a hardwall camper.
Very welcome! I love the idea of popup campers... been tempted many times to buy one. But then my wife reminds me of all the less desirable things. Glad to have a hardwall camper! Thanks for sharing and best to your next setup!
Hi, excellent and helpful video thanks.
Very welcome!
100% not a fan how they rip you off on upgrades. I don't have a camper yet but this video was extremely helpful. Thank you so much.
You are very welcome! It's sad that their business model is to capture people with lower price and the walk away price is much more... Thanks for sharing.
Probably the best review and comparison I’ve seen. Thanks Did I miss your comparison about off-roading? One vs the other and how the hard side manages being taller when your off-roading backcountry? Cheers WADZ
Much appreciated. Height is a factor either way. We carry a Dewalt pole saw for tree branch issues. Center of gravity can be a factor but really depends on camper and how it's loaded either way. I'm amazed at how many popup campers have roof racks loaded with gear. Kinda defeats the advantage of the popup. Stay tuned for our adventures so you can see where is possible with a hardwall camper. Thanks for sharing!
Great video, really informative. Got to say though my favorite part was your new hair cut. Way to go bro.
I figured you'd like the end... But yes, totally great hair improvement - thanks to your wife (who looks like my sister). :)
Not the videographer? haha
@@laurastewart6076 yep! You made it into the video!!
@@TruckCamper I did! Proud moment :)
That was very helpful 👍🇦🇺
Glad to hear!!
Going from pop up to full featured hard side required upsizing to a 250 truck from a 150. So 250 Ford reliability/ maintenance/ cost/ comfort/ efficiency vs the 150 Tundra also merits discussion to really get the full picture.
Much appreciate your honest reporting of some of the downsides of the 4-wheel pop up camper, especially the noise factor. Your point about use case determining choice very true. Thank you.
Good point. That would be an interesting discussion. We sold the Tundra with 50k miles at 1.5 yrs old. Will have more to report back between the trucks in another year and more miles. Super Duty is a much more durable platform but reliably comparison after similar time would be interesting. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks, great video and comparison! We have been in a James Baroud rooftop tent on a Subaru Outback for 3 seasons, and are now waiting (until April) to upgrade to a 4 Wheel pop-up Fleet that we'll put on a Tacoma Access cab 4x4 Offroad pickup, after the suspension is upgraded. Our decision to do this centered around better access to forest roads, and lighter weight and maneuverability. For our needs, this arrangement seemed better for living "out of it", rather than living "in it". Time will tell if we ever upgrade to a bigger truck / hard sided camper.
Very welcome! I made a very similar progression... it's fun to try new things and see how it works. Wish the Tacoma was smaller! Current generation is the exact dimensions of the original Tundra. And only 5" less than current full size. FWC fleet is ony 4" narrower than the FWC Hawk. You'll love the ability to escape the weather and stay warm. Huge advantage over roof tent. Thanks for sharing!
How are you liking your FWC? I have one on order, the Grandby. Completion date, December 2022.
great info
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for sharing!
It's a true struggle comparing the 2, there both great in there own ways, hard to beat the low profile of a popup here in Michigan with all the wooded country and trails!!
True! All comes down to preference and usage. There is nothing perfect. All them have draw backs... just a matter of what you want. Our Dewalt pole saw has had a serious work out on different trips... but many cases tree clearing was required regardless of height.
Been shopping for a truck camper so I really appreciate your insight. But I wish I had a comparison of your Liberty vs the Northstar 850SC with insulated canvas. Happy travels!
Absolutely! Biggest difference between the Liberty and 850SC beyond one is popup and the other is not... is the overall length. Liberty has a 7ft floor length vs 8.5ft floor length. We were seriously tempted to buy another popup camper! We were walking through the different Northstar campers (popup & hardwall) at a dealership. Then it started raining. We walked in the popup and then hardwall. Could barely tell it was raining in the hardwall. Popup was rather noisy in the rain. That finalized the decision. Really it's a personal preference! And how/when you plan to use the camper. I can see a popup being ideal for summer weekend trips or week long trips. And much easier to store.
Just can't beat the comfort of hardwall when traveling in poor weather or for extended periods weeks to months.
HARDSIDE ALLWAYS BUT WEIGHT IS ALSO A FACTOR THEY ARE LOT HEAVER SO U NEED A BIGER TRUCK AN ON MINE I HAD TO USE AIR BAGS EVEN ON MY 1 TON IT JUST MAKES IT SAFER IN THE WIND AN DIRT OFF ROAD DRIVING!!!! GREAT VID KEEP IT UP!!!
All trade offs for sure! We will be sharing our last off road adventure soon. Thanks for sharing!
I owned a 2018 FWC Hawk. It was fully loaded except for the toilet. I even ordered it with the King Size pull out bed option. From the outside it was the coolest thing, especially when compared to any type of tent. Even if you spend a short amount of time inside you will really like it. However, if you spend any length of time with more than 1 person it starts to become clear that their are some short comings. These things may bother some people. I thought the build quality was excellent. Their customer service excellent. Overall design is quite nice. The problem is that it is a canvas sided camper, and it is noisy. I didn't experience a condensation problem, but I also always had a vent cracked open for fresh air. Lack of storage is another problem. My major gripe is ingress/egress out the camper. I never got used to it. If I was single, it would probably work fine for me, but throw more than myself in their, and it gets really small, really fast. The shower worked ok. It was better than nothing. Setting it up and then taking it back down each time eventually took the usefulness out of it. Options are pricey, very pricey. Mine was almost $34K. I decide after I sold it to go with a hard side. I've just waiting for the COVID to retract so I can to sit inside some other campers. You can rent them already attached to a truck. I suggest that anyone on the fence to rent it to see how much you like it, and see if it works for you
. FWC has no problem selling campers, and I think that is because is a luxurious step up from their tent or RTT.
Great feedback. That for sharing your experience and thoughts! It is interesting how many of their buyers are coming from tents and roof tents. Guessing most don't shop other options...
Initially, I thought I would get a pop-up camper. (It's my first venture into RV.) I did a lot of research online and decided (not my first choice) on the Northstar 850 SC. I considered other pop-ups but they were far more expensive with fewer options/features than the Northstar. I decided on a pop-up because of the lower center of gravity, the relatively lightweight and versatility it potentially gave me. I finally went to see one in real life.
I found a dealership that sold the Northstar line of campers. One of the first things I noticed about the pop-up was that the clips holding the roof down in place required a ladder of some sort for my truck for me to reach them for release. I deduced it would not be as much fun to prep the camper for occupancy when it was cold and rainy and windy. It was one of the glaring negatives that you guys slipped over. The rest you described, as I discovered on my walk through the lot. I thought the pop-up felt too closed-in with the windows all covered and there was some difficulty in getting to the bed area, a large leap for mankind and all.
I toured the various hard-sided Northstars and Lances on the lot and did a test drive with a hard side camper in the truck because it was a scary thing in my head. (I had already installed the tie-downs). I decided, apart from the weight that I had never experience before, the ride was okay with such a tall camper. The insides of the hard-sided camper felt more open even though it is a small area. I eventually purchased the Laredo which is slightly larger than the Liberty you have. If I had the resources, I might have gone to the NuCamp as my first choice but I am very pleased with the Larado. Now, I am doing some upgrades that I think are necessary for a home-like feeling in some of my future travels.
The hard-sided camper will limit the trails I can take. Height and center of gravity will largely limit the off-road experience for obvious reasons but I am sold on the versatility of the truck camper combination though the gas mileage sucks.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Very helpful for others trying to decide which will fit best. We had a Laredo SC previously (check earlier video review). Extra space was nice!
Interesting fact. Popup campers can have the same or higher center of gravity. It depend largely on what options you have like microwave, AC and other heavy items. And how your weight is loaded. We keep only light items in the upper cabs and no heavy options (including using flexible solar panels). So the gravity center hasn't been an issue.
Height is a challenge. We carry a Dewalt pole saw for cutting tree branches. Height hasn't stopped us yet! Will see in the future. But having the flexibility to drop the camper is handy too for futher trail exploration.
Great thoughts!
@@TruckCamper I saw that you had a Laredo older model. Mine is model year 2021.
Nice! I'm so glad they updated the colors. Our 2020 has the new finishes too. Massively better!!! Congrats on the new camper. :)
I have had a pop camper for over 30 years but never a 4 wheel drive camper. The main reason for a pop up for my self was storage of the camper I was limited in height. The 4 wheel drive campers are one of the most expensive of the popup campers, I have a 2018 NorthStar popup camper now love it, it has a inside bathroom in it love it for all the reasons you said, Have had friends with four wheel drive campers one other problem with it is there is no front or rear windows, i camp in very hot conditions there camper were always very hot is side. one other reasons why people by 4 wheel drive is that there light ok for a 1/2 ton truck, the first popup i had was a Jayco it weighed 1800 lb dry after loading it up for a week trip i am sure i was 2500 lb. the NorthStar popup is 2350 wet then add in you equipment I am at 2800 lb . You need at least a 3/4 truck . In the cold weather camping it still has a problem with condensation and if it rains it is noise but i can still sleep, It has a very good heater in it, stays warm in it with no problem. The main reasons why stick with popup is the lower heights for off road and tree clearance
Storage and tree clearance is very nice with popup camper. Glad you are enjoying your camper. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Appreciate the comparison. Very well done. It has really made me consider my options for the future. One thing you didn’t touch on to a high degree was how was it to off-road and overland with a hard sided camper? What was the comparison with a pop-up camper?
Very welcome. So far, we haven't encountered a situation where the hardwall camper hasn't been able to get through. Center of gravity isn't much different (for our camper and how we load it). Height is the main consideration. We carry a Dewalt pole saw to deal with tree branch issues which has worked fine. Stay tuned... we will be showing more remote trails and road we take it on. Then you can judge for yourself. It doesn't seem it will stop us from reaching the destinations we like. Thanks for sharing!
@@TruckCamper this was one of my main concerns as well, I’m going to go hunt down those videos now. Thanks fir the useful tips, just subscribed! :-)
I wonder too about how well the hard-side camper will hold up to the rigors off off-roading in terms of the repeated rolling and bouncing.
We have a '09 Tundra 4wd with 35" mud terrain tires, with a '12 Northstar TC650 pop up. We compared brands for probably 2+ years before pulling trigger on the Northstar. Best investment we've ever made for what we do. More water capacity (30gals + 4 in the hot water heater), and build quality is much nicer than the 4wheel campers, in spite of all the attention they've garnered comparatively. HUGE fan of the Northstar. PS, in cold conditions (15 degrees F), no noticeable condensation. Same mileage as your Ford.
Very interesting. I agree NS product, features and development is better than FWC. Thanks for sharing!!
Very thorough comparison, thank you. Only thing I would mention is I think FWC and Northstar are serving very different needs. The FWC really shines for people with smaller trucks who are very conscious about payload capacity. I have had other popups that had a lot more features and overall were more comfortable. However they were considerably heavier. When you mention only a 600-700lb difference, thats actually huge. The payload capacity of a Ram 2500 is only 2000lbs. So We are talking 1/3 of the trucks payload capacity.
I feel like the Northstar is an awesome 4 season camper for people with really beefy suspension who maybe don't need to offroad much. I think the aluminum frame of the FWC would handle the flexing of off roading a bit better. Thanks again for the video.
FWC is way, way too heavy for small trucks and exceeds capacity of light duty full size trucks. Campers with similar features and gear are very similar in weight. FWC are marketed to be light weight but reality is they are not light. Maybe lighter than some campers but they are bare bones. I enjoyed our FWC coming from roof tents and vehicle camping. But I've gone further off road with the Northstar and rougher terrain. But everything is a compromise. Love the low profile and slightly narrower width of the FWC while traveling. Otherwise, hardwall is better for everything else; no contest. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@TruckCamper When I say small I'm really referring to a 250/2500. The weight of my Hawk is 1100lbs, and it is admittedly very utilitarian. I also tow a boat. So with 1100 pounds with no gear, gas, people etc. Then I add in 2 people, lots of gear and the tongue weight of my boat, I'm still under my payload capacity. I don't really think any other truck camper is going to provide that. As I mentioned above, 600-700lbs is a lot of weight when we are talking payload capacity. Side note, I'd never try to put a camper on a 1/2 ton or less. If I could get away with the weight of a hardwall I'd be all over it. Popping the top up and down is a PITA!
@@MrFuckface2013 Have you looked at Total Composites? They are making hardwall shells that are even lighter than the FWC. Camp-X is another company using composite construction technology but in popup form. Both are the lightest construction available with real insulation r-value. Glad to see some new developments!!! FWC hasn't had to innovate in 40yrs and the market still accepts their products. Crazy because they keep increasing pricing. Glad to see more innovative competition!
very informative video. i'm researching truck campers & campervans now. i have a 1/2 ton F150 so a a hard side is not an option for me. i personally was looking at the Northstar 650TC. i feel it's more camper for the money over the fourwheeler.
Yes Northstar is a good value for features. But definitely be careful on weight. Be sure to scale your truck with passengers and full tank to determine remaining weight capacity. Figure at least 500lbs in addition to camper weight. It is possible with a F150 but need to be rather selective. Have fun!
Just found your channel, great video! I like that you didn't fall into the diesel truck trap. I too purchased a gas F350 dually to carry a truck camper. The only drawback thus far that i can see is limited fuel range. Have you noticed this as an issue? thanks for the great videos. Subscribed today😁
Thanks so much! Diesel is sweet for the power and better mpg. But too heavy, complicated and expensive. Plus we like to visit Baja and fuel quality issues.
Take a look at our earlier truck build video. We have built a custom auxiliary 21 gallon tank. So 55 gallons total. Easily travel over 500 miles even off road. Game changer!
We've been 10-11mpg average with the camper. With the best tank being 13.5mpg. So not terrible considering it is lifted on 37s. But would love it to be better. Miss our old Winnebago View (Sprinter) that averaged 17mpg.
More fun stuff to come... :)
@@TruckCamper thanks I'll check it out 👍
@@TruckCamper I have an 18 Ram 3500 long bed with 35's. His name is Big Red. I'm so glad I found your channel. Really great and sensical presentation. Ty you guys. I'm gonna basically live in my rig, though I have an industrial base. Really appreciated this info. Definitely saving for reference.
Forgot to say he is a 6.4 Hemi. I concur about diesels. Not against them, but not for me.
@@fastgurrrl Thanks for sharing! Hope we can be helpful. Sounds like a fun adventure rig. And gasser is easier to live with. :)
I've owned both. I don't get the easier loading and unloading though. They're basically the same footprint from the floor to where it comes to the box wall. Either one takes me 5 min on, 1 min off. Don't forget the hardwalls get more wind noise, are MUCH more affected by a full cross wind and you're often not able to clear drive throughs and low hanging branches.
Haven't noticed the wind noise. FWC has manual jacks... rather difficult and cumbersome. Our hardwall has wireless powered jacks which is slick. Height can be a challenge but often an issue with either camper. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Did you look at the Northstar 850SC? Popup with most of the same features as the Liberty. I bought one a few months ago and have been pleased with it.
That is a great popup camper! We did walk through it. Definitely better than FWC in many ways. But we prefer the additional insulation and quieter inside for the hardwall camper. All trade offs. Thanks for sharing!!
We have a Hallmark Milner, 30gal water, 30 gal propane, fiberglass walls, overhesd cabinets, large fridge and lots of storage. One piece fiberglass roof and all the other amenities. Little heaver than a FWC but wayyyy more usefull , Not made for a 1/2 ton, but some people do. I like staying within GVWR. Comes with Polar pack as FWC charges $750,00 more..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those are nice campers! Much higher level than the FWC. And realistically... not that much more expensive after you "option out" a FWC. They are such a rip off for upgrades. How have you enjoyed the Milner?
Very helpful comparisons. Really trying to decide between these two options also. How is your new set up offroad?
Glad it could be helpful. We haven't been held back yet with the new camper. Our Super Duty is more capable than the Tundra. But the Tundra had the popup camper. Tundra was better for go fast style. Super Duty with hardwall is more enjoyable for spending time in locations. Thanks for sharing!
Northstar Liberty seems like the logical choice for you...I am also considering a lighter hardside such as the Liberty..I don't own a truck yet but would be looking for a 3/4 ton tugger for this would put me in safe territory.
We've been enjoying it so far!! Large as needed small as possible. Good value camper for what you get. Just stay away from Ram 2500... it has coil rear suspension and a mess carrying weight. Thanks for sharing!
If you're going to haul a hard sided truck camper, always err on the side of caution when purchasing a truck. My 1 ton ram has a payload capacity of 4321 lbs and with my northern lite that weighs 2750 dry, I've managed to be right at max GVWR when loaded down without adding the ~36 gal of water to the tank and not getting crazy with accoutrements(except the cast iron pan. Have to have the cast iron pan.) Most hard sided TCs on the road are at or over GVWR with SRW trucks. Just food for thought. :-)
@@sad754yt That's great it is working well for you! Many others have had weight handling issues... I prefer the simplicity of leaf springs. Thanks for sharing your experience.
We have a 97 Dodge diesel 2500 but leaf springs in the back. Is that something they changed with the new millennium? Or is it because the original owner ordered it like that?
I appreciate everyone's input because we are trying to determine our actual payload and keep being told different things.
How about this category: The garage. My Tundra and FWC Hawk fit in my garage. The rain noise is not as bad as you make it sound, in fact, my wife likes the sound. The other issue with your video is you need to tell it like it is. The FWC has an aluminum frame that is lighter and won't rot BUT, there is foam insulation in both the walls and roof. My turnbuckles never loosen, I am trying to figure out what you're doing here. I never had any problems with condensation but that's maybe because we live in Oregon. Actually, a 700 - 800 pound difference might not make a difference if you have a big V-8. If you have a V-6 like I do, it does make a big difference.
Yes, the FWC is great for typical garage parking. I raised the roof on the last house to fit the Tundra and FWC inside. We were just over 8ft in height. Noise is a factor for many... I'm surprised nobody talks about it with popups. Wind. Basically any sound as you're in a tent. Sometimes it doesn't matter but many times difficult for light sleepers. I lived in Oregon with the FWC and had 160 nights in it after 9 months. Traveled from Baja to BC and all over the SW. So I do have a good experience basis for comparison... condensation was only a non issue in the summer when windows were open and limited temperature differential. So guess it depends on how you use it. It was a huge factor for us! Especially in the winter and snow. FWC entire base is wood. Only the walls and roof is aluminum. So they can rot the same as any camper.
Don't get me wrong. I loved adventures with the FWC... but they are a rip off for the money. And certainly not perfect.
Thanks for sharing your experience too!
Great video, very informative! What rims did you put on your truck?
Method 701 - Check out the truck build video! Thanks for sharing
You guys review knocked it OUT OF THE PARK ! I concur with C Ogden. Chris had EXACTLY the same conundrum quagmire & conclilusion as you did. Strongly considering the dated Alaskan now bc the main priorities are warmth shelter good sleep or what's the point of the camper ?
Appreciate it. It's good to determine priorities and expected use. For us, we really enjoy the hardwall camper for extended travel. :)
i believe in some places, the pop-up camper can be left on the truck and legally parked where the hard-sided one cannot (like in an area where the HOA makes the rules)
Yes, that could be a possibility. Our past HOA didn't allow for anything popup or not. But good to check into. And popup is easier to fit into a garage with a rolling cart. We have been in bear country where national parks won't allow popups. So that's also something to consider... We encountered that in Canada as well. Thanks for sharing!
The condensation can be iliminated with about 25l/s of ventilation, and dry heat applied. (Dieselheater is best option)
True. Diesel burns dryer. Definitely worth trying! Thanks for sharing.
Hey there! Are yall fulltiming in your camper? Whereabouts is your stomping grounds? What do you do for the inevitable condensation under the bed in colder weather? I am fulltiming in Montana, so this is a huge problem for me. The hypervent system I have from factory is almost worthless and I have to prop up the bed once every few days to dry the underside of my mattress and its platform off, or else face mold or a destroyed mattress. Fun! I've seen people use pegboard propped up on another few segments of more pegboard, then hypervent on top of that and it seems to remedy the situation.
Not full time, yet. May next year. Our trips have lasted 3-4 months at a time though. We are based in Arizona. Haven't noticed the under mattress area getting damp or wet. Did monitor it while traveling in the snow. There are a couple good systems for under mattress ventilation. Seems like something you definitely should do full time in Montana! Thanks for sharing your ideas. :)
Great comparison! I agree that the more time spent, the more the hard shell makes sense. What about Northern Lite truck campers (fiberglass clamshell) or a Kingstar truck campers (steel frame hard sided) as compared with your Northstar Liberty? You said your Liberty is wood-framed. Isn't a steel framed camper stronger for off-roading or overlanding? The Northern Lite's apparently have no frame and use the fiberglass shell. Have you seen off roaders use the Northern Lite? I've seen one TH-camr using one and he swears by it. The build quality on your Liberty looks good from what I can see.
Thanks!! Northern Lite and Bigfoot were high on the evaluation list when I was researching. Trouble is they are wide and heavy! Not ideal for off road or rough terrain. I haven't looked at Kingstar. Typically I would prefer aluminum framing. But not as excited after dealing with the condensation issues of the Four Wheel Camper. I did a ton of research on wood. There are tons of advantages... excellent strength for weight, much better insulation and easy to repair or remodel. Downside is that wood rots. So you need to ensure regular maintenance. But really need to do this with all campers anyhow.
So far, we found it to be well insulated and quiet inside. And it's survived some extremely rough terrain.
The next most intriguing camper is the composite panel campers. But they are newer and not many builders yet. Hope that helps!
@@TruckCamper Thank you so very much! Yes that helps a lot. Yes I noticed that the Northern Lite is about 3000lbs and was surprised in how light is yours! I guess a big factor with wood strength is how they put it together, with staples vs nails vs screws, etc.. I know a lot of builders use the 'stick and staple' method for speed and cost, which is not good for strength. Great to hear your camper is holding up! Enjoy your freedom and traveling!
I really enjoyed this video. I have been doing a lot of research, trying to decide what to get and until your video, I didn't even consider a hard shell camper. I have a 2012 Toyota Tacoma, I don't plan to get a bigger truck, do you know of a hard shell camper that will fit my 6ft. bed?
Thanks again.
I love the Toyota Tacoma. I had a 2013 Tacoma and 1998 Tacoma. The biggest issue is they just don't have the weight capacity to haul campers. Your best option would be to look at something like the "Go Fast Camper" or possibly something that AT Overland builds. We have a buddy who put a Four Wheel Camper on his Tacoma. It has caused stress cracks in the frame mounts. They just get heavy fast. Four Wheel Camper makes a "shell" version which is rather basic but less weight. We ran the Four Wheel Camper Hawk on the 2016 Tundra but it was fairly significantly over the GVWR and right at the GAWR. It worked fine but a bit hefty for the truck. I love the Tacoma platform but I think they designed it for the American market which apparently prefers to "tow" more than "haul or carry". I hate trailers but it might be another option for the Tacoma. Hope that helps!
Thank you for all the information that you provided for us thank you I have a question I decided to go to tour around the United States by myself and probably in Europe tour and I was thinking to get the pop-up trailer and I want to hear your opinion what do you think thank you
Trailers are a real hassle and cumbersome. And more costly to ship. Van, small motorhome or truck camper is easier to explore with
I have a 2010 FWC on a 2005 Tundra. I love it but as i get older i want to be able to leave the bedding set up and have the bathroom feature at night. So i am looking at getting the northstar … but wonder about weight …the old tundras are more like the weight bearing of a tacoma now. … i wonder what kind of truck you have …and what you know about this topic …
I definitely enjoyed your comparison and agree with lots of it.
I love my heater and kitchen in the Four Wheel though.
Thanks
We have a Ford Super Duty. It's a good idea to step up to a HD level truck for heavier campers. Our camper is around 2k lbs empty and 3k lbs loaded on trips. Having a stronger frame, brakes, axles and more powerful motor and stronger transmission is important. We have lots of videos show more details on the Northstar camper (check them out). Hope that can help give you ideas!
Thanks for your awesome comparison of the two styles of campers. I've been going back and forth between a popup or hardtop. Mainly due to I will be camping all seasons in Canada, BC, and need a camper that can handle it well. Not sure which one to get though. By the way, how's the F250 Gas mileage like?
Glad it could be helpful. Just a matter of deciding what is most important to you!
We are 10-11mpg mostly. Best was 13.5mpg. 9mpg off road in 4wd for days. Not bad considering the height, weight and 37" tires.
Thanks for sharing!
Great /Honest Review!....Hard wall seems the 'WAY' to Go!...Is there..an AC 'option' in a 'Hardshell'? Cheers guys..Stay Safe!
Yes. You can have AC in either style camper... glad it was helpful! Blessings
@@TruckCamper ..gotta have MY AC!! Hate Hot humid Nights..must have Comfy Sleep!! lol.. Bless U Back! Cheers From Canada!
Have enjoyed watching your videos. We have a 2011 Tundra double cab 4x4 and we had a pop up camper for a couple years, and it was over our payload, although we added air bags, and e rated tires. Thinking of going back to a tc, probably a hard side like yours. I know we would have to upgrade our truck to a 250 or 350. We like boondocking on Forest Servive or BLM lands. How did you decide on a 250 vs a 350, and how about a long bed vs a 6.5 bed? We want to stay with a double cab because of two dogs.Thanks again for your helpful video.
Tundra is a great rig. But does max out quickly! I owned a 2010 and 2016 Tundra. This video talks about F250 vs F350:
th-cam.com/video/BndKVscVrFI/w-d-xo.html
Our earlier videos show our crew cab and replacement extended cab. We really like the 148" wheelbase with the extended short bed. Note the short bed is 6ft9in (bit longer than most). Turning radius is the biggest factor for bed length and cab size. Tundra has awesome turning radius. HD trucks are not as good... then extend the length and they are less ideal to maneuver. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the quick reply and link to the 250 vs 350 video. One other question - srw vs duallies. How about that option for off road or dirt Forest service roads, pros and cons?
@@paulchristiansen9633 I'd only go dually if you really need it for weight capacity. Extra width, worse turning radius and more tire cost. Plus no factory rear locking diff option. So really only one upside...
My 2015 F250 4x4 ,crew cab, long bed only has a 2000lb payload capacity. For me I feel like a somewhat bare bones FWC is my only option? This video gave me a lot to think about. Thanks
There are many better light truck campers: Camp-X, Scout, Hallmark, Phoenix and a bunch more. You could modify your suspension to carry additional weight as well. But it would be good to keep the base camper weight as low as possible. Hope that helps!
Hard side camper is the one to live in for full timers .
Sure adds a lot of comforts! :)
thank you for your insight, what about off road ? how does it handle the high center of gravity ?
It does great off road. Check out some of our other videos... Center of gravity isn't bad. Most of the weight is down low. Our jacks are removed and stored under the camper, no microwave, no roof AC, flexible solar panels... It looks crazy tall but handles off road rather similar to the popup. Biggest downside is requiring to trim a few tree branches that we could have driven under with the popup. But often the tree cutting would have been required for either camper. We enjoy the hardwall overall much more... especially for long travel.
Not all campers are built the same and center of gravity can vary greatly between campers, options and how they are loaded. It takes careful attention to detail to get a truck/camper to handle well off road.
Great video, I really enjoyed the comparison by someone that has real experience with both. I do like Fourwheel Campers in concept, but haven’t actually used or stayed in one. I camp in an Alaskan Camper and had a Lance camper before that. I really love my Alaskan as it’s a pop up but with hard walls when raised. The only thing it lacks is the shower, it does have a toilet, although not as nice as the Northstar you have. I think the Alaskan has a far superior dinette though. You do have a better bed in the Northstar since you can sleep north south. Would actually be interesting to do a video comparison between an Alaskan and the Norhtstar. I’ve never seen a Northstar in person but it looks really appealing.
Glad it was helpful. I don't think there is any perfect camper. It seems everything has trade-offs of comfort, size and cost. There are a number of campers I'd like to review. I'm mostly interested in manufacturers who are innovative and bringing new ideas or functionality. The camper industry seems slow to improve and adapt. I'm amazed at how companies such as Four Wheel Camper can make limited improvements over a decade. Yet, the price keeps marching up. Thanks for sharing!!
Apologies correction OGREN
😎
2016 Forest River sabre
Is that what you own?
Re weight, there are some new, relatively lightweight hard-sided campers like the AT Overland Aterra (dry weight 1150 lbs). Same thing with Total Composites camper shells, which you can build out yourself or hire someone to build out for you. Also, re windows (and to be fair to pop-ups), plenty of them have windows at eye level. That FWC window setup is strange.
All the camper end similar in weight after loading assuming similar features and capacity regardless of construction type. Another guy built a Alterra camper on Super Duty similar to ours. He weighs nearly 1000lbs more than us loaded for a trip. Essentially the same truck build and components. Flatbeds do add weight. I've experienced the same situation with FWC as well. Listed weights are deceptive; real world loaded weight is much more. HD trucks are the best option for any slide in camper. True on the windows. Although many popup campers are taller and have bigger more functional lower windows. FWC windows are nearly pointless for looking out of. Sadly they won't build them without windows (which would be my preference for thermal efficiency). Thanks for sharing
prefer Overland Explorer truck campers. cold weather tested too. need 3500 truck though if going with Camp HBE. CampX can be put on truck bed though
Those are nice units!!! But for the cost... you could buy 2-3 or our campers! No popup camper will be as quiet or insulated as a hardwall camper. Have fun!
great video. Considering buying a pop up type. What's the price difference in both?
Northstar popup are cheaper than their hardwall campers (low to mid $20k range). Four Wheel Camper starts at $20k but not really functional with options until over $30k. Hope that helps!
The wind noise would be a deal breaker. Not having instant availability also a problem for myself… much prefer the road trip instant availability of a full sized camper.
Definitely an advantage for the hardwall camper! We've been in 50mph winds and barely noticeable inside. Popups sound as if the roof will rip off. No idea how people sleep in the wind with popups. Thanks for sharing!
did you do anything special on. the f250 suspension? how does it drive on the freeways? thanks
Yes. I posted a link to the build video on your other comment. Check out our other videos for details on the truck. It drives great on / off road. We have numerous videos showing the off road adventures. Check them out! :)
Thank you for this useful video , we were thinking to get a FWC with F250 , after watching your video , we think Liberty may be more comfortable for us , but we found the height is 11 feet from bottom to the top , that may hit our roof edge of drive way , do you have any suggestion for us ? btw, do you have any difficulty when you go to gas station ?
Keep in mind our truck has about 6in lift over stock with the 37s and suspension. The 11ft height is to the top of the roof vent which is maybe 4in taller than the roof. Plus we raised the camper 2in for the basement storage. So the stock camper on a stock truck is 10+ inches shorter. All bridges and gas stations are plenty tall generally 13-15ft minimum. Haven't had any issues with that. But good to consider where you will drive and park the camper! Hope that helps.
@@TruckCamper yes , thank you very much .
Also it is easier to tell that you are a set up camper with popup, stealth
So true! And less convenient inside a popup with the roof down. I've done it! Thanks for sharing!
The Alaskan camper is kind of a hybrid between the two. But no shower option.
True. And extremely dated. Buying a new camper straight from the 70s. Interesting design tho.
Hey there, how low can you put your jacks? Im asking- How low can you get the camper if I wanted to store in garage?
You'd need about 9ft clearance and build a short rolling platform to set the camper on. Jacks in the lowest position to the roof is just under 9ft. Hope that helps!
Better bed in the Northstar? Sometimes soft-sided campers are prohibited in campgrounds with bears. Does your Northstar have a grey/black tank?
We have a full queen size (residential) foam mattress. It's amazing!! That's true. Soft sided can be limited in certain areas - totally forgot about that! It has a removable cassette for the toilet (black) and grey tank under (which we removed). Thanks for sharing!
Have you looked at scout campers? They seem like a good in between of four wheel campers and the North Star.
Yep! Those do look interesting. Definitely more strip down. Worth a look for sure!
@@TruckCamper what did you think about the Kimbo? The Scout does look very interesting and versatile, you can cook inside or outside, leave your domestic fridge inside or take with you outside.
I'm curious, you stated your Liberty is just over 10 ft but your image in the video says it's 11' 1". Then you say the pop up was 8'. So it was only a 2' difference. I assume you made a mistake but 8' up to 11' is 3' in difference.
Correct. We were originally just over 10ft with the truck. I hadn't remeasured since completing the truck suspension and camper basement storage. That increased the height another 8" or so. Of course, the Tundra was a much shorter truck with smaller tires. Our F250 bed height is 43". So the overall difference between the campers is probably closer to 2.5ft (if mounted on the same truck).
Would you ever put a service body on the truck to increase outside storage
We've considered it. There are some disadvantages to consider: cost, flatbeds increase bed height (for tire clearance) ie higher center of gravity - more top heavy, additional weight (these factory aluminum truck beds are light), possible decrease in truck resale value (less appeal to market when selling). It is a great benefit having extra storage (if needed) but need to consider you may have issues with dust/water infiltration.
We really don't need the extra storage space with the rear truck seats removed and "basement" storage conversion under the camper (check older videos for details).
Hard side campers easily the winner overall , is much more comfortable to live in .
That's true. But can't beat the low travel height and easier storage of popup. All trade offs.
Thanks. You save me u was gonna get four wheel pop up. No way no good for me
Absolutely! It's good to have realistic expectations from any camper.... thanks for watching!
Just curious what’s the weight of the North Star camper and what’s the weight of truck and camper combined. Great video guys!
Much thanks! Northstar Liberty camper exterior tag weight is 2,188lbs. Their website lists it at 1,775lbs. Ours is highly modified so don't know the exact weight of the camper now. 40gallon water tank added the biggest chunk. Fully loaded for 10+ days off grid with all tanks full included 55gallons of fuel and 2 people we are 10,800lbs. It drops off as water, food and fuel go down. Works really well. Our latest trip videos will be coming soon!
@@TruckCamper thanks man appreciate the reply. I recently finished a diy steel frame flat bed truck camper. It had aluminum walls and roof. On a 1st gen tundra with a diy steel flatbed. Dry weight of truck and camper 6450lbs. The truck had air bags, and modified 5 leaf spring setup. I’m in LA so if you guys want to check it out hit me up.
That is a serious project. Nice work! Weight really adds up quickly as you fill the camper space. It would be fun to meet on our travels.
@@TruckCamper it was quite the undertaking. I’m glad it’s over lol. Now I’m tweaking it here and there. We love going to the desert are with our two dogs. Mainly pioneertown, and Joshua tree.
It’s nice to get away from town these days.
Here is my contact gilibartal@gmail.com
@@Gilibob13 So true! We enjoy visiting Joshua Tree too... our parhs might cross!
Good info. Did you ever consider Alaskan camper or are they to heavy for what you want to do.
We did look at them. Don't like the design. Bed panels fold onto bed area. Think mud, dirt, wet, snow... all coming inside the space. It is crazy outdated. Not a bad concept but expensive and needs major overhaul in modernization. Thanks for sharing!
Your condemning the Alaskan from a distance. They are still being produced for good reason. They are custom built so you can have the features that fit you best.
My main complaint is the std over cab bed is too narrow for 2 full size people. I bought mine used, so, good price/value, but didn’t get to order the wider bed.
They are a great low height on the road travel camper.
A lot of the complaints on your pop-up do not apply to the Alaskan Campers. You should have done more research before buying the cheaper pop-up that you bought.
@@cliffmorgan31 Appreciate your view and support of the Alaskan. It wasn't from a distance that we chose to not buy one... I do like the concept but the execution is lacking. And the setup/take down is more complicated and time consuming than the FWC. It's great it works for you but not a good fit for us.
Also the center of gravity it higher on Alaskan campers than a FWC. Our current Northstar is tall but center of gravity is lower than some popups because most of the weight is low.
Basically, everything is a trade off. What fits one person won't fit another and that's okay. Most people won't buy a camper as small as ours. Thanks for sharing!
I've had two northern lites(have a 2020 now), and a 2006 alaskan camper. I full time in them, so the Alaskan isn't as practical because it doesn't have a shower....but...I did love it. It was a very well built camper, was durable, and got great MPGs on my old cummins...like 15-17mpg good. By comparison, woth my 2000 northern lite 10-2000 I was achieving 11.5 mpg due to the massive drag that big camper had.
Also, resale was excellent on the alaskan. I bought it for 9800 and sold it for 13,500 after a year of use. Good luck doing that with any other camper!
After your video, I found 4 wheel camper is not for me… can’t stand for the noise. Thanks for sharing.
Glad it was helpful. FWC could work better for heavy sleepers!
A bit late to the party but, your views are still valied. I saw a new Supertramp LT video & thought maybe so I checked up on price, it starts at OMG $60K for basic. Clearly popup manufacturers are keen to rip customers off, 60k & NO engine ridiculous!
Yeah... anything "overland" or considered capable costs 2x the amount of money and has less features. Rather comical looking at overland equipment and then the RV world which has overkill on gadgets and features. Our NorthStar camper continues to be a reasonable value, comfort and capable. And my wife likes it! :)
What a lovely couple you are. Your wife is gorgeously hot... the way she looks at you is with total admiration and respect. ...but it is always a two-way street. I see that you cherish her and value her counsel and voice. You are a gentleman and therefore deserve such a beautiful connected relationship (married I think;and hope?). ...and you Ms., exude such vibrancy and zest for life and your journey together with your man. I aspire to one day have something so beautiful.
Thank you for your honest and forthright comparison in your review and experiences with the campers. Your transparency is undeniable and therefore trustworthy. You will continue to grow and live an amazing purposeful life.
Thank you for your amazing example that went beyond this simple and clear review.
All the best and kindest regards, -Eduardo
It is a massive blessing having a wonderful wife and life partner. Thank you for such encouraging words. Best to you!
While this is a good review, you guys didn't cover travel ability. How 2as the 4 wheel off road? Did it give you better access to campsites you might not have got otherwise? Did it feel more secure on off camber or severely rutted roads, did it inspire more confidence you can make it out and back intact vs the wood Northstar? Did it crack from the stresses and leak? Did the northstar? I've seen people with Northstars complain the attachment brakets break thru the wood. For a couple, few days in the woods or way out there, which was best considering?
We've actually gone further off road with the Liberty (hard side camper) but it has required use of the dewalt pole saw at times (tree branches). Biggest advantage has been comfort (especially in the cold) and more water/battery capacity (for extending duration). Popup campers can be better for off camber but much of the COG (center of gravity) is in how the camper is equipped and loaded. No cracks or leaks (after 4 years). Choice depends on the comfort you desire. For long distance travel over short periods (overland style) I'd consider a popup for the bump in hwy fuel mileage. But you can't beat a hard side camper for comfort!! We wouldn't go back.
Interesting, is that a f350? I get the comfort, had a viking pop up camper, bathroom set up similar to a modern palomino ss1251. That camper did start busting apart (wood) over the trails. Was very warm in 5, 10° weather. Used for dirt bike trips as well. Wind didnt bother it on road and not too intolerable parked in 50 mph stuff or driving snow. In the market now for either a fourwheel hawk type or maybe ss1251. Will carry a dirt bike on rack front or back, maybe both at times and or tow jeep. Seen some Northernlites I like as well but not willing to upgrade truck. (2500 hd)
@CBWANADA Our truck is a F250 with fairly extensive upgrades. There is definitely a big range of camper quality. I'd say most are not durable enough for rough off road travel.
Make sure you know if you need a 3 or 4 season camper, whether it's a soft or hard top.
Do you want to camp in a soft top, where you are mostly outside?
Or do you want to basically mobile home it in a hard top, where you are mostly inside?
If you want both, you get the hard top pop up, Alaskan camper.
I like them all better than TT that are pull behind.
campovrlnd.com/products/ovrlnd-pop-top-camper
I agree, trailers are a major hassle and hindrance to exploration. Being able to escape the weather makes overland adventures more enjoyable for longer term. Weekend trips... no big deal. Or summer weather. We've done plenty of both. Thanks for sharing!