I wanted to make mention of Buffalo Bore's statements on this ammo and it's gun compatibility: For the .32 H&R there is this "This load is safe for use in all 32 H&R Mag. and 327 Federal firearms, except for, as of this writing, (05-17-11) the long out-of-production H&R revolvers. Do not use ANY+P ammunition in the original H&R revolvers." And for the .380 ACP there are no warnings of any type, and one of the test pistols is a Keltec P3AT which the Ruger LCP was copied from almost identically, so there really isn't any concerns of too much pressure and the +P designation from my opinion is just marketing.
i would say yes sam if you get it in the sweet spot but in the heat of the moment id rather have a bigger gun but in a pinch it would do great vide i love these
@@patrickbolthouse7354 But, even hard cast bullets can give an increase in velocity over jacketed bullets with a given powder charge from bore drag reduction of the lead. The 99 gr Federal HST in this pistol gave me 1,028 FPS/232 FPE, and that's with copper jacket bore drag.
Answer = NO Maybe for a big cat or a black bear, some guy on the bad side of town. But nothing significant above that. Still thats saying something for a .32 caliber. Either a Moose or Grizzly or Wolf (or Croc) is going to be moving, or too far at the moment of opportunity, you're not going to Ace him in just the right spot like 007. There's also a Bone issue.
I really just wish that Companies would support 327 Fed Mag and 32 H&R magnum. Currently there are very few offerings and they are extremely rare and expensive.
Agreed. I currently can not find ammo in either caliber and have 3 revolvers chambered in .327. Federal had an excellent semiwadcutter load my single seven shoots well. This round would be great for small game.
I own a Charter Arms .32H&R Magnum revolver. It's a tremendous gun, accurate, and it's a very handsome gun. The tests results I've seen using F.B.I. gelatin shows it comes close to a .38+P. It's a pleasure to shoot with my gun having a 3 inch barrel. You do have to search for ammo. I was on several waiting lists. Before this ammo craze hit I found some Hornady. I went ahead and bought 400 rods. I've been extremely happy with my gun, .32H&R Magnum is very underrated...
Your right about the .32H&R being under rated. It is a fine round as long as you chose ammo wisely. I have a box of Hornady .32 H&R magnum in an 80 grain hollow point that will deliver both good expansion and penetration. I like .32 H&R Federal 100 grain semiwadcutters for practice in my .327 single seven. It is mild but also a a good round for defense and small game. It will not expand but does have a fairly blunt nose that will aid in transferring energy to the target. Do not shoot any +p rated ammo out of the H&R. It will excellerate wear and tear on your gun. The gun Sam used in his video is a Ruger LCR chambered in .327 federal magnum and can handle 5 different .32 caliber handgun rounds. I have one along with an sp101 and single seven all made by Ruger. For years I coveted the single six in .32 H&R but could never afford one until about 2 years ago. The single six in.32 was dropped from production. I had a hardtime getting the single seven. I am happy with it as it is the same gun as the single six except it is in.327 and has a 7 round cylinder.
Fun test. The .380+P was impressive, but of the two I would rather have the .32 H&R+P In fact, I carry a .327 LCR with .32H&R defensive ammo as my EDC.
I do also. The Hornady loads are the ones I typically carry as that seems to be all I see locally. It's definitely a cartridge you have to order and/or reload.
Great Video bro. Gotta say though, I think id take the .380. Penetration on dangerous game is the point. Got a lcp and im comfortable with it, at least in the deserts of New Mexico..Well Done!😉🍻
That 32 HR Magnum impressed me. Looks like it's slightly more powerful than a 38 special (at least the standard pressure), but the advantage is you get 6 rounds in the same size revolver rather than 5.
I always wondered how Buffalo Bore's 100 grain Hard Cast would do. I think if I had to pick I would go with the 32 Mag, but I did carry my LCP loaded with 95 grain flat nosed FMJ while hiking in N Texas last Spring. Wouldn't want to face grizz with it, but I would imagine a solid 32 or 380 will take care of most critters in the South.
@@adamdean5881 Based on user induced malfunctions cause it's just too tiny for his hands. But pocket autos are usually less reliable. The newest additions in small auto pistols improved quite a bit.
I read alot of studies about the outcomes of bear attacks. The recurring theme I see in a successful defense is to maintain situational awareness and being able to draw the weapon as fast as possible if needed. I don't see any major* differences in success rate based on caliber alone from .380 ACP to .460 Magnum.
right. If they can feel bugs, they definately can feel smaller caliber rounds. They're not mindless monsters and are just as interested in self preservation as any other creature.
Hey man thanks for the video very informative. Both these round seem to be better than I thought. As someone else said better than throwing rocks I strongly agree!! Again thanks for your time.
Honestly Sam i was more impressed with the .380 and I think if you had a better pistol, like the P238 it would make a world of difference. Yes the 32 is a good choice and reliable. Thanks for the video!
@@GunSam the Bersa Thunder is a good firearm. More reliable yet not expensive. Honestly the 380EZ I found out to be the best .380 out there..very reliable and barrel length optimizes the round coming out...the only problem I see is with that size pistol, why not just run a 9mm.
Another interesting review. That mag ejection issue is disconcerting. Maybe the American style mag release is not appropriate on certain pocket pistols. Actually, LCPs don't impress me much, even though other Ruger models normally do. Pocket carry necessitates sacrifices. I'd prefer that to be in power rather than in shootability. I believe that 32 is the best caliber for any pistol that you might put in your pocket. The Keltec P32 looks like the ideal pocket pistol - ugly, practical and cheap I hope that Keltec magazines don't fall out. From watching many tests like these I believe that H&R 32 Mag is the ideal revolver caliber/round. I'd prefer to carry a revolver in a waist-type bag - I think they're called fanny bags in the US. I can wear them all day at home and in the street since I seldom need formal clothes now. There should even be room for a three inch barrel, plus pepper spray, reload and torch in a separate compartment. I'd use a snap on trigger cover that pops off when you draw. But there are no handguns where I'm currently living. People keep saying that H&R 32 magnum is hard to get, but last I heard, the common rounds are the hardest to get. Besides, a 327 mag revolver shoots lots of things. It seems that compared to semi-autos (and with equal training and proper maintenance) revolvers have a split second advantage on the first shot, they are also less likely to fail on that shot, and they can be fired more easily from tricky positions in which a perfect grip is not possible. I accept that they are generally harder to shoot straight (for non experts) and they are poor in sustained gun fights, but being the first to shoot would matter a lot to me.
I feel like the .327 Mag is truly the best pocket gun. You don't give up much compared to other choices. The recoil, shootability etc is on par with a 4" 9mm pistol, and the power is a tad more. The velocity of the lighter bullets give more reliable hollow point expansion and 6 rounds is more than the typical needed. The way I see it is in a practical sense, the LCR .327 in your pocket is equivalent to a Glock 19 but in your pocket, in some regards.
Either IMHO would be OK for the woods except in Grizzly country. Cougar or black 🐻bear would fall .....with good placement. 👍 good review 👏 BUT I believe your Taurus 605 with Buffalo Bore 357magnum 180grain Outdoorsman would be a better choice for a pocket pistol carry in the woods.
All things considered between these two firearms and loads ,I would go with the revolver. More reliable with the tested ammo and if it doesn't go bang when you need it then might become a one way boomerang.
Love this test! 6:48 - I’ve noticed that false click with my LCRs too. Over the years I’ve gotten in the habit of automatically pushing in the crane quite firmly, and thus I had forgotten the issue until now.
A pocket gun wouldn't be my first choice, but I've heard enough stories of bear attacks stopped with a 22lr that I would still feel confident with one.
Very interesting review today, good science! Revolver reliability seems to be the winning factor here, especially with something charging at you. Pretty sure I'd be grabbing my biggest caliber guns if I was headed out in Grizzly/Cougar country though. Thanks Sam
I only have a couple of 380s so when in dangerous game territory (1) be bear aware - fortunately have never had a close encounter - and (2) i carry a 1911-380 with 4.25" barrel or a cheetah 84fs with 3.8" barrel, and i have them loaded with 90 xtreme penetrators at max pressure. Both of those guns are much larger and easier to shoot accurately and quickly than the pocket rockets. The 1911-380 has maximum barrel length to get all the extra fps, while the 84fs has 13+1 capacity. The understanding is that if i have to use the gun as an absolute last resort, the shots need to be in the head. Otherwise, see (1) If i could, i would consider stepping up to something like a compact 2011 in 9mm with xtreme penetrators to get some extra weight and fps, but honestly, nobody would really consider that an ideal choice for dangerous game. The problem with a 44 mag or larger is that i have no interest in carrying a gun that large in the back country, nor would i want to practice with it to be competent to use it correctly. I would feel safer carrying bear spray + a carry gun i feel confident shooting than a magnum gun that's either too heavy to carry or to snappy to shoot well. At the end of the day, the gun you carry is to make you feel better while you do everything you can to avoid the encounter in the first place.
I made this .32 H&R mag hardcast my winter carry round for my ruger lcr in 327. My thoughts and reasoning behind that is it will get better penetration through heavy winter clothing and I actually like that it tumbles. Because i've seen a few tests of this round and every test i've seen it tumbles but also at the same time gets plenty of penetration. I'm no expert, but i see tumbling as a bad thing if it results in you getting inadequete penetration. But if you can have both, tumbling and good enough penetration, then you have one nasty and effective carry round in my opinion.
With little guns in case of a wild beast I would try to scare it away because if you shoot and wound it that will only make it mad . Going in the woods I would at least have a 357 if not something bigger. Most wild animals will avoid people except for a few like the cougar and the bear or maybe a snake.
Back in the 1940s we had a circus truck flip when the elephant shifted it weight in a curve. It broke 2 of the poor elephants legs. A Deputy Sheriff arrived and the owner requested it be put down. He took his 38 Special and from about 10 feet put 3 rounds in it ending its suffering. It worked. They took a bulldozer and pushed it over the bank. My Grandpa said people came from miles around to see. After it broke down he said all 3 rounds left perfect holes a few inched apart in a very large African elephant.
Assuming that's all I had, I'd use either and place my shots careful. I'd prefer to use a locked breach 380, like a Colt Mustang, Officer's Model, or Glock 43. . Also prefer the longer barrel of the Officer's Model. And definitely prefer the hardcast lead. But, if I had my druthers, I'd prefer a 9mm or 40 S&W as a minimum. I've a Kahr PM40 that would work well.
Thank you for a very useful "visualization" test! The mag-drop failures were another reason for us all to PRACTICE with our chosen gun! I too carry a three-inch .32 H&R Mag, now with Critical Defense ammo, which is fairly hot and does expand. I have also long carried the Buffalo Bore +P .32 Mag ammo, but stopped because I worry a lot how things could sound in court someday out of the mouth of some slimy Prosecuting Attorney! My revolver shows NO DAMAGE AT ALL from shooting over twenty of those rounds. I much appreciate your inclusion of the final complete test, the rapid emptying of the gun, which would be the most likely use against a large oncoming animal! Everyone seems obsessed over the "one shot stop." But in reality five or six would be fired! It might take that many rounds to stop our most likely attacking animal: the off-leash pit bull dog!.........................elsullo
Thank you. The prosecutor trap is an often debated thing that there's no evidence of. You would have worse things to worry about if you're in a position of a court deciding whether or not to file charges that it was not a clean shoot. The ammo used would probably never come up.
Always a good and interesting video. You really shoot that revolver well. I have a little Taurus PT738 .380 which I shoot poorly, plus I also hit the mag release on about every other shot. I actually put a you tube video together on the PT738 at the end of the year just to show how much I love that gun! Thanks again for sharing and take care. PS: My granddaughter's husband has a LCP II which he loves and also, he shoots it very well.
Awesome video, I especially like the 5/8 plywood behind the bologna pack ....simulates flesh followed by bone. The LCP with Bufallo bore .380 Hardcast +p is exactly what I carry everyday. It runs like a champ and no problems feeding. I dont run a ton of it as its a very powerful round and could cause premature wear or damage, just use it for CC...ball for the range. It turns my tiny lcp into a fire breathing dragon, probably close to a 9mm. I wouldnt run it in your lcp though, just not reliable.
I have the hogue sleeve around my LCP Custom. Really helps with the grip. Gives more of a palm swell. But it shoots low for me also. And for others who have shot it, so it is not just me. It is on enough for close in defense, but a bit low.
I was told you need to know what kind of bears you're dealing with. Black bears have berries in their poop. Grizzly's have whistles and little Rugers in theirs.
I own several KelTec P3AT's and the BB 100gr HC +P is my carry load in them. I've shot a few hundred of these rounds through them and never had any FTF/FTE or magazine issues. Most of the .380 HP I've shot into wet newspapers barely expand if at all, especially the 102gr GS so I figure I might as well just carry an 100gr HC with a little extra punch. Great video & keep up the good tests, I always like your videos. I prefer your style to watching some guy shooting pots, soda and/or gong targets, yours are more practical.
When I get me a gun and ammo testing channel on any internet video I'm gonna wait till I know all there is to know so I can decide safely a good name to call myself like Aficionado.
1) Let me just say I LOVE your Blue Collar Ballistics Traps. One small criticism of this one: It should be carpet, then plywood, THEN balogna. 2) Ballistics aside, this 380 +P is not a good choice in a pocket pistol, or at least not in an LCP. Side note: I wonder what effect a warning shot would have on an aggressive animal? We're not supposed to shoot at them until they're trying to kill us, but a warning shot into the ground would probably be OK in case of doubt...
I would say between just the two rounds tested the 380 maybe had the edge. The accuracy is a thing to be concerned with for sure but could be remedied with some practice with that particular round. I can also see though where that would be a problem with switching between a normal self defense load and this hard cast load. Overall though I would still go with the LCR especially with your particular gun since it can handle the far superior 327 Federal Magnum. I think though both rounds did better than expected. I was not expecting the 380 to stop in the 6th jug! Good test 👍.
Here's the way I see 'so called pocket guns'. They should be something that is small and fits in a pocket without anyone knowing it, and they should be effective at 5 feet or less. While a .22 might 'seem' a little small for that, I'm very comfortable with my Beretta Bobcat in my pocket. _No extra mags._
I am a little curious as to why, at the end, you say the 32 was more reliable than the 380. I know that in slow fire you were hitting the mag release, but that is a function of gun, grip, etc (including recoil), but not the cartridge being unreliable. Especially when the 32 tumbled (which Is an effect of the cartridge/round combo. In this loading.) I would like to see (meaning at some time I need to do) the 380 through a Kahr CM380 (similar bbl length to LCP), CT380, LC380, and Shield EZ and see how each bbl increase effects it. Stay safe, keep. 'em coming.
Well i'm saying that all in all I got some .380 malfunctions, and none with the revolver unless you say what I did was a malfunction. I get what you're saying as the mag release was I guess, the same thing as the revolver not closing, but over the years the LCR has never "jammed" but the LCP has a couple dozen times.
@@GunSam thank you for clarifying. I guess, to me, if it is me or my body that causes the malfunction, I can't fault the product (ammo) but CAN fault that the gun/grip combo may not be right for me. Example:My Kahr CT380 does not lock back last shot for me, every time, UNLESS I consciously move my thumb of the slide lock. Not a gun malfunction (I am pressing down on the lever, slide goes forward), but still a perceived malfunction from the planned design, caused by my grip.
Good luck finding oddball ammo like .32 H&R mag. I guess I'm just practical because I want to actually be able to find ammo easily. .380 ACP is more expensive than 9mm I buy for a SIG P365, and now that I can have that round in a gun this small I feel like Sig made a lot of pocket guns obsolete.
I have the LCP 2 just because YOU hit the magazine release. Its not a malfunction. Thats called (user error). I have yet to have malfunction with my LCP 2. 380 auto is reliable.
Testing on large grizzly bear: Angry bear charging at full speed, if, when hit, the bear stops, then falls down hard... laughing, the load is not quite good enough, but run like hell anyway!!
That .32 H&R 130gn turned into a .32 super police. when it tumbled, but at a higher velocity great video Sam, thank you for shooting my favorite small calibers.
Thank you. I was thinking the exact same thing about the Super Police and thinking that it did very well, but that mentioning it might be a pain as a lot of people don't understand the tumble effect. I still recommend the .35 Rem 200 gr bullets to people when they ask, I say they tumble better than the round 200 gr pistol bullets.
@@GunSam ironically you mentioned that 35 Remington bullet i just sold that 4 cavity mould on ebay for 91$, it was all beat up and had homemade steel handles that was brazed on but it sold quickly, i had started thinning out my mould collection on ebay but kept my favorite moulds.
@@Ford360CID I loaded some .327's tonight. Makes me nervous as with the Ramshot enforcer i'm using, even the starting charge is a compressed load. I never loaded with powder like that before. Says 12.2 to 13.6 gr, 100 gr Hornady XTP, case trim 1.190 (as opposed to 1.2" stock case length) and OAL 1.440. As I don't trim cases I am at 1.460" OAL and I used CCI 500's instead of the Win WSP (non magnum) primers listed by Ramshot.
@@Ford360CID I dissected a 100 gr Speer Gold Dot .327 Federal before. The powder was no doubt Ramshot Enforcer, very unique (no pun intended) looking powder, looks like black sand. It weighed in a 14 grains. Speer's load data shows a max charge of Ramshot Enforcer at 13.5 gr and with a Federal 200 mag primer. So we can see that Speer loads their Gold Dot ammo higher than they want us to load it, but more importantly that 12.2 gr should be fine with a 100 gr XTP.
The mag drops from the lcp were user handling induced.... Otherwise there wasn't an issue with the 380. It goes to show, stick to what you know, if you are more familiar in shooting a wheel gun, it is easier, so stick to it. However if you know how to use autoloader wells and have trained with them, use them.
@@GunSam your offhand and primary hand thumb were interacting with the slide release mechanism because you use a more revolver style grip on the firearm, with the high kick from the Buffalo bore, it was obviously giving you issues. Those small 380s love to jump with regular rounds in there, that's why it helps to slap a laser on the front bottom to keep that thing jump rising to much.
@@GunSam The triggers are excellent and overall it’s a solid gun. Been very tempted to get one in 327. But my first one had timing issues where you could pull the trigger without the cylinder being fully closed. Second one didn’t have that problem but i traded for the 3 inch version. 3 inch version had accuracy issues so i moved on. Still tempted by them though.
@@randalljeffs7272 I own the 327 Fed and it’s a great little revolver. The trigger is simply amazing given that it’s a stock trigger. The 327 Fed packs quite a punch, but the .32 mag is no slouch. I use both rounds when I’m backpacking because it only weighs 17oz. I honestly don’t feel under gunned, plus, it holds 6 rounds instead of 5 like my 357 LCR. When my wife and I are both backpacking or hiking here in the Northwest, she packs the 327 and I’m packing the 357. I figured between the two of us, we are well protected and you don’t even notice the weight on our belt. I highly recommend the 327 Fed LCR.
You laugh because u r used to seeing baloney all sliced and wrapped, but like you said if u ran into a pack of them in the jungle u better hope your keltec works for once in its life!
I wanted to make mention of Buffalo Bore's statements on this ammo and it's gun compatibility: For the .32 H&R there is this "This load is safe for use in all 32 H&R Mag. and 327 Federal firearms, except for, as of this writing, (05-17-11) the long out-of-production H&R revolvers. Do not use ANY+P ammunition in the original H&R revolvers."
And for the .380 ACP there are no warnings of any type, and one of the test pistols is a Keltec P3AT which the Ruger LCP was copied from almost identically, so there really isn't any concerns of too much pressure and the +P designation from my opinion is just marketing.
i would say yes sam if you get it in the sweet spot but in the heat of the moment id rather have a bigger gun but in a pinch it would do great vide i love these
249 fpe out of an LCP seems like a +P to me.
@@patrickbolthouse7354 But, even hard cast bullets can give an increase in velocity over jacketed bullets with a given powder charge from bore drag reduction of the lead. The 99 gr Federal HST in this pistol gave me 1,028 FPS/232 FPE, and that's with copper jacket bore drag.
Answer = NO
Maybe for a big cat or a black bear, some guy on the bad side of town. But nothing significant above that. Still thats saying something for a .32 caliber.
Either a Moose or Grizzly or Wolf (or Croc) is going to be moving, or too far at the moment of opportunity, you're not going to Ace him in just the right spot like 007. There's also a Bone issue.
@@JohnLeePedimore I'm willing to bet that your baby could handle those Buffalo bore rounds with ease.
I really just wish that Companies would support 327 Fed Mag and 32 H&R magnum. Currently there are very few offerings and they are extremely rare and expensive.
Agreed. I currently can not find ammo in either caliber and have 3 revolvers chambered in .327. Federal had an excellent semiwadcutter load my single seven shoots well. This round would be great for small game.
I own a Charter Arms .32H&R Magnum revolver. It's a tremendous gun, accurate, and it's a very handsome gun. The tests results I've seen using F.B.I. gelatin shows it comes close to a .38+P. It's a pleasure to shoot with my gun having a 3 inch barrel. You do have to search for ammo. I was on several waiting lists. Before this ammo craze hit I found some Hornady. I went ahead and bought 400 rods. I've been extremely happy with my gun, .32H&R Magnum is very underrated...
Your right about the .32H&R being under rated. It is a fine round as long as you chose ammo wisely. I have a box of Hornady .32 H&R magnum in an 80 grain hollow point that will deliver both good expansion and penetration. I like .32 H&R Federal 100 grain semiwadcutters for practice in my .327 single seven. It is mild but also a a good round for defense and small game. It will not expand but does have a fairly blunt nose that will aid in transferring energy to the target. Do not shoot any +p rated ammo out of the H&R. It will excellerate wear and tear on your gun. The gun Sam used in his video is a Ruger LCR chambered in .327 federal magnum and can handle 5 different .32 caliber handgun rounds. I have one along with an sp101 and single seven all made by Ruger. For years I coveted the single six in .32 H&R but could never afford one until about 2 years ago. The single six in.32 was dropped from production. I had a hardtime getting the single seven. I am happy with it as it is the same gun as the single six except it is in.327 and has a 7 round cylinder.
I would jump at the chance to buy a Smith & Wesson 642 chambered in 327 Fed mag. What say ye S & W?
@@benjaminarmstrong7047 100%
The more that I watch the videos the more I want a 327 Fed or 32 H&R Magnum revolver.
Well, as they say, it beats throwing rocks....
or pointy/sharp sticks lol
@@GunSam Actually our Native American friends have actually shown that a pointy stick can be quite effective when handled skillfully. :D
A sharp stick worked well for Anthony Hopkins too.
Many thanks. I've been looking for a video like this, pocket pistol vs dangerous animal, for a long time.
Fun test. The .380+P was impressive, but of the two I would rather have the .32 H&R+P In fact, I carry a .327 LCR with .32H&R defensive ammo as my EDC.
I use the 100 gr XTP either in their .327 or .32 H&R+P as both are about the same velocity in my LCR.
I do also. The Hornady loads are the ones I typically carry as that seems to be all I see locally. It's definitely a cartridge you have to order and/or reload.
My New York reload is an S&W Bodyguard with Underwood .380 ACP +P 90gr. Xtreme Penetrator® Ammo. My wife and I both trust our lives with these.
I Love this topic w small calibers.
I've never even considered a .327/.32 Mag before. Interesting, thank you.
Thanks!
Thank you Sam. These rounds performed better than I expected.
Pretty impressive results for these two cartridges. I will stick with my .357mag/.38S +P, but good to know information.
big velocity for the 380acp ..nice ..
Great Video bro. Gotta say though, I think id take the .380. Penetration on dangerous game is the point. Got a lcp and im comfortable with it, at least in the deserts of New Mexico..Well Done!😉🍻
Wow!, the 380 BB impressive.
That 32 HR Magnum impressed me. Looks like it's slightly more powerful than a 38 special (at least the standard pressure), but the advantage is you get 6 rounds in the same size revolver rather than 5.
I always wondered how Buffalo Bore's 100 grain Hard Cast would do. I think if I had to pick I would go with the 32 Mag, but I did carry my LCP loaded with 95 grain flat nosed FMJ while hiking in N Texas last Spring. Wouldn't want to face grizz with it, but I would imagine a solid 32 or 380 will take care of most critters in the South.
It was a handful. I'm not sure the addition of the +P was worth it for a pistol like an LCP, but maybe for a longer barrel pistol.
I like the way you test
Thanks!
Please do more of these smaller carry pistol videos.
Thanks for the interesting video. I wonder how this 380 load would perform in a larger 380 like a Walther PPK/S, CZ83 or a 380 chambered Makarov?
Still like my 32's have several!
Is a revolver still adequate for self defense? You be the judge, No malfunctions
yep
@Fluffy Panda in this video the revolver was much more reliable.
@Fluffy Panda More rare? Kids, nothing but kids watching these videos...
@@adamdean5881
Based on user induced malfunctions cause it's just too tiny for his hands.
But pocket autos are usually less reliable. The newest additions in small auto pistols improved quite a bit.
Either one of those firearms are better than a rock or stick, but I would choose the revolver if this was my only options
I read alot of studies about the outcomes of bear attacks. The recurring theme I see in a successful defense is to maintain situational awareness and being able to draw the weapon as fast as possible if needed. I don't see any major* differences in success rate based on caliber alone from .380 ACP to .460 Magnum.
right. If they can feel bugs, they definately can feel smaller caliber rounds. They're not mindless monsters and are just as interested in self preservation as any other creature.
Not sure if I’d stop a determined dangerous animal but it’d probably deter a curious dangerous animal.
Bigfoot scratches his ear where you shoot him there thinking it's a horsefly lol.
@@GunSam hahaha exactly!
Love the .32 magnum I inherited two from my dad.
Your father was a passionate lover 🔥
In terms of compact ccw they are in the same ballpark. My uneducated guess is you need to get into 4” barrels before anything shines. Cool 😎
Hey man thanks for the video very informative. Both these round seem to be better than I thought. As someone else said better than throwing rocks I strongly agree!! Again thanks for your time.
Thanks for watching!
There is no animal more dangerous than a human trying to do you or your love one harm .
.327 never disappoints... kudos for not using animals on this tests... great video...
I used pigs, chickens and cows from the mixed meat in the bologna lol
@@GunSam LOL
You have just demonstrated why I sold my LCP II and my EDC is the 327 LCR!
Love the LCP jams. Just what I want in a life & death situation.
Thanks
I want to see you test the 130 grain hard cast from the. 327 Federal from Buffalo Bore. That should be pretty effective.
That sounds like a great idea
I just ordered some XS sights for my LCR .357 from Midway USA.
You said it , if one of those were your only pistol with that ammunition not bad . The 327mag can shoot a wide range of ammunition 👍.
Interesting. I would have to favor the revolver in this instance.
Impressive for a 380. Dont know much about the 32. But it was good as well
Revolvers are cool
One thing for sure....the tiny .380 seems more capable than they appear when holding one of the little buggers in your hand!
At least the bore axis is high. I have never gotten slide bite on the LCP.
You can survive a Grizzly Bear attack with a 22. Just be sure to put a few hits in your hiking partners leg before you run...
The old saying you don't need to run faster than the bear, you just need to run faster than your partner lol.
Honestly Sam i was more impressed with the .380 and I think if you had a better pistol, like the P238 it would make a world of difference. Yes the 32 is a good choice and reliable. Thanks for the video!
I have thought about getting a bigger .380. I used to have a Bersa Thunder and miss it. Thought about getting a fullish size one like the S&W EZ lol
@@GunSam the Bersa Thunder is a good firearm. More reliable yet not expensive. Honestly the 380EZ I found out to be the best .380 out there..very reliable and barrel length optimizes the round coming out...the only problem I see is with that size pistol, why not just run a 9mm.
Another interesting review.
That mag ejection issue is disconcerting. Maybe the American style mag release is not appropriate on certain pocket pistols. Actually, LCPs don't impress me much, even though other Ruger models normally do.
Pocket carry necessitates sacrifices. I'd prefer that to be in power rather than in shootability. I believe that 32 is the best caliber for any pistol that you might put in your pocket. The Keltec P32 looks like the ideal pocket pistol - ugly, practical and cheap I hope that Keltec magazines don't fall out.
From watching many tests like these I believe that H&R 32 Mag is the ideal revolver caliber/round. I'd prefer to carry a revolver in a waist-type bag - I think they're called fanny bags in the US. I can wear them all day at home and in the street since I seldom need formal clothes now. There should even be room for a three inch barrel, plus pepper spray, reload and torch in a separate compartment. I'd use a snap on trigger cover that pops off when you draw. But there are no handguns where I'm currently living.
People keep saying that H&R 32 magnum is hard to get, but last I heard, the common rounds are the hardest to get. Besides, a 327 mag revolver shoots lots of things.
It seems that compared to semi-autos (and with equal training and proper maintenance) revolvers have a split second advantage on the first shot, they are also less likely to fail on that shot, and they can be fired more easily from tricky positions in which a perfect grip is not possible. I accept that they are generally harder to shoot straight (for non experts) and they are poor in sustained gun fights, but being the first to shoot would matter a lot to me.
I feel like the .327 Mag is truly the best pocket gun. You don't give up much compared to other choices. The recoil, shootability etc is on par with a 4" 9mm pistol, and the power is a tad more. The velocity of the lighter bullets give more reliable hollow point expansion and 6 rounds is more than the typical needed. The way I see it is in a practical sense, the LCR .327 in your pocket is equivalent to a Glock 19 but in your pocket, in some regards.
@@GunSam Do you favour 327 mag over H&R32 mag for carry purposes? (I presume you were referring to 327 cartridge performance.)
Either IMHO would be OK for the woods except in Grizzly country.
Cougar or black 🐻bear would fall .....with good placement. 👍 good review 👏 BUT I believe your Taurus 605 with Buffalo Bore 357magnum 180grain Outdoorsman would be a better choice for a pocket pistol carry in the woods.
Thanks
All things considered between these two firearms and loads ,I would go with the revolver. More reliable with the tested ammo and if it doesn't go bang when you need it then might become a one way boomerang.
Love this test!
6:48 - I’ve noticed that false click with my LCRs too. Over the years I’ve gotten in the habit of automatically pushing in the crane quite firmly, and thus I had forgotten the issue until now.
Thanks! Yeah I noticed it a year ago or so. I have the habit also, except I didn't use the technique in this video.
A pocket gun wouldn't be my first choice, but I've heard enough stories of bear attacks stopped with a 22lr that I would still feel confident with one.
Very interesting review today, good science! Revolver reliability seems to be the winning factor here, especially with something charging at you. Pretty sure I'd be grabbing my biggest caliber guns if I was headed out in Grizzly/Cougar country though. Thanks Sam
Thank you.
I only have a couple of 380s so when in dangerous game territory
(1) be bear aware - fortunately have never had a close encounter - and
(2) i carry a 1911-380 with 4.25" barrel or a cheetah 84fs with 3.8" barrel, and i have them loaded with 90 xtreme penetrators at max pressure. Both of those guns are much larger and easier to shoot accurately and quickly than the pocket rockets. The 1911-380 has maximum barrel length to get all the extra fps, while the 84fs has 13+1 capacity. The understanding is that if i have to use the gun as an absolute last resort, the shots need to be in the head. Otherwise, see (1)
If i could, i would consider stepping up to something like a compact 2011 in 9mm with xtreme penetrators to get some extra weight and fps, but honestly, nobody would really consider that an ideal choice for dangerous game. The problem with a 44 mag or larger is that i have no interest in carrying a gun that large in the back country, nor would i want to practice with it to be competent to use it correctly.
I would feel safer carrying bear spray + a carry gun i feel confident shooting than a magnum gun that's either too heavy to carry or to snappy to shoot well. At the end of the day, the gun you carry is to make you feel better while you do everything you can to avoid the encounter in the first place.
I made this .32 H&R mag hardcast my winter carry round for my ruger lcr in 327. My thoughts and reasoning behind that is it will get better penetration through heavy winter clothing and I actually like that it tumbles. Because i've seen a few tests of this round and every test i've seen it tumbles but also at the same time gets plenty of penetration. I'm no expert, but i see tumbling as a bad thing if it results in you getting inadequete penetration. But if you can have both, tumbling and good enough penetration, then you have one nasty and effective carry round in my opinion.
With little guns in case of a wild beast I would try to scare it away because if you shoot and wound it that will only make it mad . Going in the woods I would at least have a 357 if not something bigger. Most wild animals will avoid people except for a few like the cougar and the bear or maybe a snake.
When out in the critter area (not bear country) I have my P365XL with BB+p ammo and a Bond Arms 3.5 inch in 45LC. Thanks for the great content!!
Thanks for watching?
Years ago, I carried a Walther PPK/S .380 aka 9kurtz... My buddies called it a metermaid gun, but that baby was very accurate, and reliable.
Back in the 1940s we had a circus truck flip when the elephant shifted it weight in a curve. It broke 2 of the poor elephants legs. A Deputy Sheriff arrived and the owner requested it be put down. He took his 38 Special and from about 10 feet put 3 rounds in it ending its suffering. It worked. They took a bulldozer and pushed it over the bank. My Grandpa said people came from miles around to see. After it broke down he said all 3 rounds left perfect holes a few inched apart in a very large African elephant.
Nice video ,but I still carry my 357 686
Assuming that's all I had, I'd use either and place my shots careful. I'd prefer to use a locked breach 380, like a Colt Mustang, Officer's Model, or Glock 43. . Also prefer the longer barrel of the Officer's Model. And definitely prefer the hardcast lead. But, if I had my druthers, I'd prefer a 9mm or 40 S&W as a minimum. I've a Kahr PM40 that would work well.
Personally, ANY gun can save your behind. Or interview someone that has been shot with a 380 caliber.
Thank you for a very useful "visualization" test! The mag-drop failures were another reason for us all to PRACTICE with our chosen gun! I too carry a three-inch .32 H&R Mag, now with Critical Defense ammo, which is fairly hot and does expand. I have also long carried the Buffalo Bore +P .32 Mag ammo, but stopped because I worry a lot how things could sound in court someday out of the mouth of some slimy Prosecuting Attorney! My revolver shows NO DAMAGE AT ALL from shooting over twenty of those rounds. I much appreciate your inclusion of the final complete test, the rapid emptying of the gun, which would be the most likely use against a large oncoming animal! Everyone seems obsessed over the "one shot stop." But in reality five or six would be fired! It might take that many rounds to stop our most likely attacking animal: the off-leash pit bull dog!.........................elsullo
Thank you. The prosecutor trap is an often debated thing that there's no evidence of. You would have worse things to worry about if you're in a position of a court deciding whether or not to file charges that it was not a clean shoot. The ammo used would probably never come up.
Always a good and interesting video. You really shoot that revolver well. I have a little Taurus PT738 .380 which I shoot poorly, plus I also hit the mag release on about every other shot. I actually put a you tube video together on the PT738 at the end of the year just to show how much I love that gun! Thanks again for sharing and take care. PS: My granddaughter's husband has a LCP II which he loves and also, he shoots it very well.
Thanks. I will have to go look at that vid.
@@GunSam Thanks. But my videos are nothing particularly special. Keep up the good work. I do really enjoy your videos.
They fared better than I expected.
Awesome video, I especially like the 5/8 plywood behind the bologna pack ....simulates flesh followed by bone. The LCP with Bufallo bore .380 Hardcast +p is exactly what I carry everyday. It runs like a champ and no problems feeding. I dont run a ton of it as its a very powerful round and could cause premature wear or damage, just use it for CC...ball for the range. It turns my tiny lcp into a fire breathing dragon, probably close to a 9mm. I wouldnt run it in your lcp though, just not reliable.
I killed a 200# bear with a 1911 45 acp I do NOT RECOMEND IT .
Could you elaborate on that? I always find these stories interesting! This one hits close to home as I carry a 1911 Colt Government Model.
I too would like to hear more of this story. Certainly sounds like a heck of a dramatic experience.
Interesting test calibers , still enjoy the 32 need to find a good revolver to go with my Henry. Good video always enjoy
Thanks!
Good job I never had any luck with Ruger products to expensive unreliable
Interesting challenge!
I have the hogue sleeve around my LCP Custom. Really helps with the grip. Gives more of a palm swell. But it shoots low for me also. And for others who have shot it, so it is not just me. It is on enough for close in defense, but a bit low.
I was told you need to know what kind of bears you're dealing with. Black bears have berries in their poop. Grizzly's have whistles and little Rugers in theirs.
LOL!
I own several KelTec P3AT's and the BB 100gr HC +P is my carry load in them. I've shot a few hundred of these rounds through them and never had any FTF/FTE or magazine issues. Most of the .380 HP I've shot into wet newspapers barely expand if at all, especially the 102gr GS so I figure I might as well just carry an 100gr HC with a little extra punch. Great video & keep up the good tests, I always like your videos. I prefer your style to watching some guy shooting pots, soda and/or gong targets, yours are more practical.
Another great test Sam, I had no idea that .380 BB would go into 6 jugs.
Bring back the jug test.
Either round would work for me. The LCP had a lot of jams though.
When I get me a gun and ammo testing channel on any internet video I'm gonna wait till I know all there is to know so I can decide safely a good name to call myself like Aficionado.
well that's very special, now isn't it?
1) Let me just say I LOVE your Blue Collar Ballistics Traps. One small criticism of this one: It should be carpet, then plywood, THEN balogna.
2) Ballistics aside, this 380 +P is not a good choice in a pocket pistol, or at least not in an LCP.
Side note: I wonder what effect a warning shot would have on an aggressive animal? We're not supposed to shoot at them until they're trying to kill us, but a warning shot into the ground would probably be OK in case of doubt...
The S&W 380 is also hard to hold and shoot also, they’re just too small to hold.
I would say between just the two rounds tested the 380 maybe had the edge. The accuracy is a thing to be concerned with for sure but could be remedied with some practice with that particular round. I can also see though where that would be a problem with switching between a normal self defense load and this hard cast load.
Overall though I would still go with the LCR especially with your particular gun since it can handle the far superior 327 Federal Magnum. I think though both rounds did better than expected. I was not expecting the 380 to stop in the 6th jug! Good test 👍.
Thanks!
Great sport; Elephants with fly-swatters.
Here's the way I see 'so called pocket guns'. They should be something that is small and fits in a pocket without anyone knowing it, and they should be effective at 5 feet or less.
While a .22 might 'seem' a little small for that, I'm very comfortable with my Beretta Bobcat in my pocket. _No extra mags._
I think the LCR lacks the barrel length to stabilize the 130 grain projectile. Maybe my 5.5" single seven and probably my 20" Henry could do the job.
Great test on two great pocket guns. 👍
I am a little curious as to why, at the end, you say the 32 was more reliable than the 380.
I know that in slow fire you were hitting the mag release, but that is a function of gun, grip, etc (including recoil), but not the cartridge being unreliable. Especially when the 32 tumbled (which Is an effect of the cartridge/round combo. In this loading.)
I would like to see (meaning at some time I need to do) the 380 through a Kahr CM380 (similar bbl length to LCP), CT380, LC380, and Shield EZ and see how each bbl increase effects it.
Stay safe, keep. 'em coming.
Well i'm saying that all in all I got some .380 malfunctions, and none with the revolver unless you say what I did was a malfunction. I get what you're saying as the mag release was I guess, the same thing as the revolver not closing, but over the years the LCR has never "jammed" but the LCP has a couple dozen times.
@@GunSam thank you for clarifying.
I guess, to me, if it is me or my body that causes the malfunction, I can't fault the product (ammo) but CAN fault that the gun/grip combo may not be right for me.
Example:My Kahr CT380 does not lock back last shot for me, every time, UNLESS I consciously move my thumb of the slide lock. Not a gun malfunction (I am pressing down on the lever, slide goes forward), but still a perceived malfunction from the planned design, caused by my grip.
That's the same reason I sold my LCP II and switch to the 327. For me is more reliable, more powerful and I can shoot it better
Love my LCRs. Couldn’t get rid of my 380 LCP fast enough.
Do this test with the 38 Buffalo Bore still a good video 👍
I think he did, might’ve been underwood tho
I believe that I would trade that Ruger LCP in on a rock.
Good luck finding oddball ammo like .32 H&R mag. I guess I'm just practical because I want to actually be able to find ammo easily. .380 ACP is more expensive than 9mm I buy for a SIG P365, and now that I can have that round in a gun this small I feel like Sig made a lot of pocket guns obsolete.
I have the LCP 2 just because YOU hit the magazine release. Its not a malfunction. Thats called (user error). I have yet to have malfunction with my LCP 2. 380 auto is reliable.
Testing on large grizzly bear: Angry bear charging at full speed, if, when hit, the bear stops, then falls down hard... laughing, the load is not quite good enough, but run like hell anyway!!
That 32 is nice! 1100 fps is about perfect for hardcast
There is no way Smith will chamber an aluminum framed gun in 327, so you can forget the idea of a 327 in a 642.
Interesting. I always thought that a bullet too short for it's diameter would be the one to tumble easier than one that is really long.
Great review and methodology.
Thank you kindly!
Ruger makes that revolver in .327 Federal , considerably more power than the .32 mag or .380 .
This is a .327 Federal Magnum LCR
That .32 H&R 130gn turned into a .32 super police. when it tumbled, but at a higher velocity great video Sam, thank you for shooting my favorite small calibers.
Thank you. I was thinking the exact same thing about the Super Police and thinking that it did very well, but that mentioning it might be a pain as a lot of people don't understand the tumble effect. I still recommend the .35 Rem 200 gr bullets to people when they ask, I say they tumble better than the round 200 gr pistol bullets.
@@GunSam ironically you mentioned that 35 Remington bullet i just sold that 4 cavity mould on ebay for 91$, it was all beat up and had homemade steel handles that was brazed on but it sold quickly, i had started thinning out my mould collection on ebay but kept my favorite moulds.
@@Ford360CID I loaded some .327's tonight. Makes me nervous as with the Ramshot enforcer i'm using, even the starting charge is a compressed load. I never loaded with powder like that before. Says 12.2 to 13.6 gr, 100 gr Hornady XTP, case trim 1.190 (as opposed to 1.2" stock case length) and OAL 1.440. As I don't trim cases I am at 1.460" OAL and I used CCI 500's instead of the Win WSP (non magnum) primers listed by Ramshot.
@@GunSam it should be a screamer, like a homemade super-vels.
@@Ford360CID I dissected a 100 gr Speer Gold Dot .327 Federal before. The powder was no doubt Ramshot Enforcer, very unique (no pun intended) looking powder, looks like black sand. It weighed in a 14 grains. Speer's load data shows a max charge of Ramshot Enforcer at 13.5 gr and with a Federal 200 mag primer. So we can see that Speer loads their Gold Dot ammo higher than they want us to load it, but more importantly that 12.2 gr should be fine with a 100 gr XTP.
There's an angry bear and it's time to pray,
But you've got fmj so you'll be okay.
I'm a poet and I didn't even realize it.
You're a poet and don't know it, but your feet show it..........
They're Longfellows
The mag drops from the lcp were user handling induced.... Otherwise there wasn't an issue with the 380.
It goes to show, stick to what you know, if you are more familiar in shooting a wheel gun, it is easier, so stick to it.
However if you know how to use autoloader wells and have trained with them, use them.
User induced? lol, take your advice and get familiar with overpressured ammo.
@@GunSam your offhand and primary hand thumb were interacting with the slide release mechanism because you use a more revolver style grip on the firearm, with the high kick from the Buffalo bore, it was obviously giving you issues.
Those small 380s love to jump with regular rounds in there, that's why it helps to slap a laser on the front bottom to keep that thing jump rising to much.
@@Mr.Kaplen I filed down the mag release buttons on those . 380's. They get popped open in pockets too.
Well done, sir. I like your target tables, I need to make me some.
Exact reason i sold my three LCRs
I'm okay with the LCR.
@@GunSam The triggers are excellent and overall it’s a solid gun. Been very tempted to get one in 327. But my first one had timing issues where you could pull the trigger without the cylinder being fully closed. Second one didn’t have that problem but i traded for the 3 inch version. 3 inch version had accuracy issues so i moved on. Still tempted by them though.
@@randalljeffs7272 I own the 327 Fed and it’s a great little revolver. The trigger is simply amazing given that it’s a stock trigger. The 327 Fed packs quite a punch, but the .32 mag is no slouch. I use both rounds when I’m backpacking because it only weighs 17oz. I honestly don’t feel under gunned, plus, it holds 6 rounds instead of 5 like my 357 LCR. When my wife and I are both backpacking or hiking here in the Northwest, she packs the 327 and I’m packing the 357. I figured between the two of us, we are well protected and you don’t even notice the weight on our belt. I highly recommend the 327 Fed LCR.
Point blank, between the eyes, mission accomplished!!!
Try that while it’s charging at 30mph lol
@@allenseferagic9426 I have
Are you sure about the thickness of that plywood? Looks like 3/4 inch to me.
Yes, that dangerous, feral, carpeted Bologna.
They travel in packs!
You laugh because u r used to seeing baloney all sliced and wrapped, but like you said if u ran into a pack of them in the jungle u better hope your keltec works for once in its life!
@@MrLanternland BOLGNA! Not Baloney, WTF it is spelled out for you right there!