You're the only Warframe lore buff that seems to get what is going on. So many of the others missed so many clues or lore or just inserted random far fetched personal theories.
And it's entirely possible either Margulis or the entity known as Lotus still resides within the helmet, warning us about Ballas' return and Umbra's awakening
I tend to think that Margulis is indeed dead, but Ballas did try to pull something off to save her. All he managed to do is preserve a fragment of her consciousness and memory, which was then used to help Natah with her infiltration, so she would be able to deceive and manipulate Tenno more effectively. It's what resides in the helmet, which when joined with Natah creates a composite personality - Lotus. If we just force it back on her, it wouldn't be right. We thought Natah changed naturally, but that wasn't the case. She realized that as well after Ballas freed her, that's why she's confused and asks her mother for advice... whose answer is basically "Become a destroyer, just like your daddy", putting Natah on the collision course with Tenno. She is lost, and doesn't know what to do. Ballas is deluded, thinking that he can bring her back. But all he managed to do is make a Sentient sex-doll resembling his ex who he got killed.
I just realized, we could come a a choice scene where we could do one of three things: Sun - Let Natah go Neutral - Put the helmet back onto natah Moon - Kill Natah Just a far fetched idea.
its different while you mixed a kubrow with the infestation you never tortured it or did anything to it while ballas tried corrupting the warframe's minds
That is a fair concern, but on the other hand, it seems that Hemilith Chargers still act like Kubrows, so it's more than likely the Hemilith Cysts are far diluted versions of the infestation, changing the body but not the mind.
You use a Kubrow egg, so its likely that the Helminth Cyst is introduced to the egg and not to a mature Kubrow. Mind you, Kubrow themselves are already genetically unstable and plagued by illness. I suspect this is actually satirical commentary on the state of Dog breeding as it is now.
I always thought Ballas' design, and possibly other orokin were based off of roman/greek sculptures. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the orokin could genetically modify themselves to look "perfect" in their own eyes. Now that I think about it, Dax soldiers kind of look like Roman soldiers as well.
When I first saw a picture of Ballas before The Apostasy Prologue, I thought the picture was of a statue and not actually him. I didn’t think he’d have dark grey skin like he does.
As I postulated during the Sacrifice videos talking about it's ending, it's very likely that 'Mother' has not sacrificed her reproduction capabilities. She could have very easily began the journey in sublight, avoiding the deadly radiation of the Void that would have been caused in the Solar Rails (and no doubt in their state of disrepair, any mishaps related to this) and then brought to speed in the state of the Origin System when Natah returned to her in the Sacrifice, with Ballus's role to tell of the Mother's return. If that is the case, this could very well mean a reproduction-capable sentient floating into space with the ashes of the old war not yet fully healed. My only consolation, thus, is that even now the Tenno are still unlocking new weapons. If we wind up fighting the parental Sentients, it's very likely that it won't be with just Archwings, but the Railjack system as well, considering the sheer size of just Hunhow.
I still believe that Ballas isn't "disfigured" from an Orokin perspective. His skin tone and asymmetry are probably quite intentional, and the Orokin are referred to in the Kuria poem as finding symmetry to be loathesome. I mean, even Ballas' outfit is very asymmetrical. This even ties back to their obsession with duality, as having duality within one's own body by having very distinct left and right sides would likely be seen as beautiful, or even divine.
That's my opinion too, the concept of what is beautiful varies wildly between cultures and the times. I believe that is what the orokin saw as perfection and since they were in comtrol of everything the regular humans saw it that way too
Kathy Kat I always had a very different interpretation of that synthesis entry. Rather than the Lorist somehow being converted into a dozen Ancients, the dozen Ancient (likely Orokin) Infested had consumed the Lorist's body and abilities, dividing her healing capabilities between them. While Infested conversion is very quick (it can happen to a Grineer in less than 30 seconds, though that may be because of a Grineer's already unstable genome), replication would seem to be slower than the day it would have taken, especially since the Lorist wasn't immediately revived by the Infested. (My evidence for the speed of replication is that Lephantis apparently reached the size it did through self replication, and if they could replicate that fast, Lephantis would be much more massive after a thousand years of replication). That said, we still have a lot to learn about how the Infested operate, and even what sorts of creatures some of the Infested are formed from (Boilers and Brood Mothers resemble no enemy we've yet encountered).
Kathy Kat I don't think you realize how insane the Orokin were. Ballas almost certainly would have been killed for such a rebellious choice, regardless of his position. The Ballas we see in the Sacrifice seems to still have his high ranking position and current appearance, which would make it unlikely that he was openly rebelling at that time.
Two tormented souls Warframe and Tenno In synergie the Protect each other The Frame shields the Tenno from harm The Tenno relieving them from the gruesome memories
This makes me wish we could get new advisor voices, with the conclusion of the sacrifice I doubt our Tenno hold The Lotus (or is it Natah now?) in as high esteem as we used to, it seemed like the “growing up” from relying on space mom and the realization that she isn’t perfect began with the war within and with this I feel like the operator can move on and use someone like Ordis, Teshin, or the syndicates for intel now instead of a fake Lotus.
I like the idea of having Teshin or choosing one of our syndicates to lead us. It'd take a lot for DE to do that though unless they just go with teshin or ordis.
BeyonDeath78 - I tbh can’t see how the rest of the system don’t see lotus has abandoned the tenno. I think they already know pretty much everything, especially after this umbra thing
I still think that the Warframes WE make aren't actually people or made of infested people. I think that they're still machines built out of infested flesh. I believe that the first Warframes were people and every Frame created AFTER is just a copy who keep the original's traits. I say this because Ballas wasn't talking about EVERY frame, just the first ones.
Michael Rodriguez this is what i got from the quest too, ballas was referring to the first prototypes of warframes they used people but the result was monster with no control and then created the ones we know but they were puppets until they used the tenno to control them
It's obvious LMAO, ordis would have told us to collect a living corpus, ostron, syndicate member and etc. and put it on the helminth chamber just to make a warframe. Now that I said it, I think this is what they should do whenever a prime warframe is released because they are PRIME?
2:26 I should point out that Ballas specifically said that it was not the operators' force of will and their control of void power that heal the warframes. It was the fact that the 10-0 children's' experience of witnessing men turned into monsters and of being views as aliens give them the ability to "see inside" and understand the infestation-turned warframes "and take away its pain".
I dont think the Mother sacrificed her "womb" by travelling too the Origin System via the Rails... I think Hunhow's assault force used that means as the pre-emptive attack (and assumed only need) against the Orokin that would have swiftly ended the threat. I suspect that, when Hunhow and the others didnt "report back", The Mother assembled a second wave, and they began the long journey from Tau to Origin via normal space, and this is why The Mother is only now appearing on the scene...this is why The New War is coming. Just my theory, though. I highly suspect that Hunhow isn't gone, either. And that what remains of his essence will likely be recovered and given a new body by The Mother, her womb intact and able to give Hunhow that. Again...theory, assumption, opinion. :)
for all we know its gonna be a mass effect style of gather all the people you can find throw them into some ships and hope to the god emperor that the enemy is the stupidest species to exist. jokes aside Hunhow never talks about a mother or for lack of a term "wife", he talks about Natah as HIS daughter and lotus says that he was Natah's father, for all we know the mother is the first sentient the starfish like robot in the crewman's sanctuary file who has come to finish the job that Natah didn't and what turned her into the lotus, for all we know she is here to take the origin system for the sentients, or and im stretching this come to give us a god like recipe for cake.
Personally I don't think that frames are designed at all. I think Umbra frames are the first frame of their type, and formed out of exceptional people, the frames abilities based on their personality and skills. Prime Warframes are High-quality replicas of these original Umbra frames, while regular frames are mass produced by infecting regular criminals. If we take the Ember codex entry, that would lead me to assume that Kaleen was turned into Ember Umbra, the fire in her recent memory forming Embers fire-based Abilities.
Hopefighter vanilla frame are tenno creation by using orikin information. And also in the quest is reveal that no matter their status. Willing or not they still use the same technique on everyone.
umbras aren't the originals they can't be as we know that margulis is dead prior to the events of the sacrifice due to her death being the reason he is working with the sentients if the umbras were the original in our lore the codex would have stated as such umbra most likely is unique in that his creation was a purposeful torture he as far as we know was the only person to be willingly given an traumatic experience as its last memory before turning, i assume that for the other early frames the torture actually came after seeing as balas states that they only did that to try and regain control until the tenno showed up and they now had a better way. Most likely we as tenno will at a later time be able to awaken the latent minds in our warframes granting them the passive ability to function unbound. With that said i agree with the warframes arent designed and that yes its more likely that the bodies of the sacrificed take on a formed born from whatever the helminth strain finds within the memories and latent attributes of those sacrificed and then that form was then mass produced using cloned proxies
Griffin Page I forgot about that but that would atleast explain how they use their powers if the powers are already preset then you would only need a power source to fuel them
@@Gomenred Umbras were the 1st frames, but they failed as the minds if the people used went insane.... The Sentients were sent out into space after the Umbras were already created (If you listen during the Sacrifice you can hear Ballas saying that Hunhow knew about the failed Umbras) After the Sentients were sent, the incident with the Zariman happened (the creation of the Tenno) After that, the Tenno returned to the Orokin, but they couldn't control their powers. That's where Margulas comes in, she was in charge of finding a way for the Tenno to control their powers, and thus the Prime frames were created (and yes, the Primes were built specifically for each Tennos certain abilities) The Primes were not humans, as the testing on humans was a failure (the Umbras) this is further confirmed by Hunhow referring to our frames as empty metal puppets (aka they have no sentience) the scene in the 2nd Dream does not disprove this, as right after your frame breaks the War, you can see your Tenno using partial transference using only his had that touches the frames back, so your frame breaking the War was partial transference
I like your idea that Lotus is being manipulated through get sentient hive mind. I've been thinking the same thing since she always seems to be behind someone else's shadow. First, Hunhow. Second, Ballas. Now, the Mother.
Koen Kohrt I wouldn't call it as "warframes able to relieve their pain" as their pain was actually their void powers which make them not just unnatural but also dangerous. Pain of carrying the weight of the void to avoid turning themselves as void demons (permanently?). So I conclude that the somatic pods heal the tenno directly and warframes heal the tenno INDIRECTLY.
Izuna Uchida The Tenno's pain was their violent outbursts that they had, aka their inability to control their void powers. What I meant by the warframes relieving the Tenno of their pain is that the Warframes helped the Tenno control their powers. The Somatic pods did heal the Tenno, but it nullified their connection to the Void temporarily. They both 'healed' the Tenno 'directly', but the Warframes did it much better.
1:50 the concept of the umbra strain would be an interesting storytelling device for stories from the origin system. Stories form people such as a high level orokin official, one of the first grineer, or the transferring of people trapped in transference loops like Silvana.
But if the Helminth strain subdues the host´s will, why Ballas says that all of the warframes rebelled? (and this before the fall of the empire). From what I gather I believe that all the warframes were made with the helminth strain and that at first they seemed docile but then rebelled against the Orokin. It is most likely that their subdued personality eventually emerged and they acted on their own. During Umbra´s "taming cutscene" Ballas says that they tortured the warframes with no avail, until the tenno came (Rhino Prime codex also supports this). I think that most warframes weren´t as mad or angry as Umbra. Even Rhino Prime calmed down pretty quickly after seeing the operator (and he had just escaped from his prison). Perhaps most warframes didn´t have painful memories like Umbra, but were still subjected to torture at the hands of the orokin. This made the transference process a lot smoother than Umbra´s. Maybe the warframes chose to aid the Tenno in the fight against the sentients not because of the Orokin Empire but just to survive, and at the end of the Old War they decided to kill their creators. They probably shut down the transference by force (we know Umbra can do it at a larger scale, ejecting the operator from his mind) so that they could kill the great seven without the interference of the tenno. This must be why the Tenno don´t remember this event, because they were unaware of it.
The other strain that let them keep their full mind. It seemed like they were find and immune to the infestation in mind but that soon changed. At least I think.
I actually believe that I have the answer to the first at least, in the ball of exposition that we find in the umbras ,ill call it chamber for lack of a better word, tells us that the first proto frames (before the tenno) were suppose to be controlled by the hemlith who in turn would be ordered to do their bidding by the orokin, seeing that the infested are a hive mind and the hives in a colony seem to be the brains or some sort of control centers it would make sense that they thought this in this is the case, but the original hemlith strain is stated to only partly corrupt the mind (Ballas essentially says the initial reason to do this was to keep the Dax's fighting prowess), and as seen by Hayden Tenno in the Darksector game ,which is the same universe in a drastically different time, the people that are infected can by sheer force of will (and massive pain reduction) retain their minds and they retain their individuality, the hemlith strain by that reasoning could be broken by the more resilient and resistant Dax, hemlith would no longer control the proto-frames who would most probably go insane because It is stated many times that the infestation causes so much pain to its host that they become lobotomized and completely complacent to its will, of course the hemlith being a weaker strain wouldn't break their minds to such a degree instead much like Valkyr they would start to wildly swing at whatever and whoever came close enough including other proto-frames and the orokin themselves, thus stopping the continuation of that sect of warframe production and usage.
This is all incorrect.... The Umbras are the only frames made from humans... The Umbras were the ones that rebelled, not the Primes, as the Umbras existed before the Sentients left, since Ballas clearly states during Sacrifice that Hunhow knew about Umbras It is also stated by Ballas that Hunhow did not know about the existence of the Tenno (that's 1 of the big reveals, that Ballas told Hunhow everything about the Tenno and where to find them So taking all of this, we have these things in the time line 1. Umbras created and failed 2. Sentients are sent out ti colonize other planets 3. The Zariman incident happens, creating the Tenno 4. Margulas takes the Tenno in and is put in charge of finding a way to control the Tennos powers 5. The Primes are created so that tge Tenno can transfer their minds into something else, which helps control their power If you actually pay attention at the end of Rhino Primes Codex, you'd know that Rhino was controlled by a Tenno at the time.... The Tenno wakes up inside if Rhino, and goes berserk, he chases 2 people into a wierd room, the room where the Tenno are being held, Rhino sees this and realizes what's happening (transference into the frame) and calms down... at the very end one of the 2 people being chased says that they are gonna get promoted, why is that? Because they just preformed the 1st successful transference experiment More evidence towards the Primes and non Primes not being people, is Hunhow calling our frames metal puppets (not flesh puppets) and no other frame besides Umbra can move on it's own (and no, the frame breaking the War during 2nd Dream is not it becoming sentient, it us the Tenno using partial transference, as we see him/her do again right after when he touches the frames back with a hand full of energy)
About Natah´s dream. I think that after receiving the memories of Margulis and hearing "Dream... not of what you are... but of what you want to be." Natah accepted her urges of being a mother. She is an infertile sentient, but she chose/dreamed of being a mother. However, after the Tenno´s growth and distrust, coupled with Palladino reminding her that she was NOT Margulis and Ballas interference, she rejected her new role as the Lotus and accepted what she was.
Kathy kat. I don't believe the lotus is dead or the idea of the lotus to Natah she had all the chance to kill our tenno when she was leaving for the sentient mother, she could now be a hybrid of the lotus and Natah but for lack of a better word, the programing that is Natah broke through and took over the mother that is the lotus when Ballas ripped her from the "lotus cave" and all her attachments to the tenno the vision we saw a last ditch attempt to warn the Tenno of the impending doom and a last vision of what she wanted to be to the Tenno, a mother they never had, before she was changed by the sentient mother back to Natah
Love how much time you put into your warframe lore. Although I never played the game before, my brother does. He was the one who got me into Warframe lore. I hope to play the game someday.
There might not have been any Warframes at all, for that matter. Ballas presided over the Warframe project AFTER Marghulis' execution, after all. The other Executors were in favor of burying the entire fiasco and not looking back--Ballas had to hard sell the entire thing to them in order to keep the Warframes and Tenno on the table instead of in the dirt.
If Ballas did choose Margulis then everyone would be dead. Archimedian Parintol's colonization plan was given the green light long before any of the other projects, so the Sentients were already on their way to the Origin System. Heck, Margulis herself was part of the Warframe Project itself, so to have both Margulis AND Ballas killed would have actually doomed everyone. Evil as he was, Ballas did betray to orokin, and he did create the Warframes, which did (temporarily) defeat the Sentients.
1:19 I've always suspected that the base instinct is always sort of subconsciously active - the Warframe's mind manages running, jumping, and balance while the Tenno's mind manages aiming, decisions, and powers.
To be honest, not sure why but i kinda hope Hunhow will stay our Warframe's main antagonist. It seems that Lotus' mother is going to be the antagonist for the The New War quest, but Hunhow should stay the overall villain. He has received so much build-up for his full return, it would be a waste to just sideline it now. What i think/hope is going to happen is the following: We destroyed Hunhow's body in the old war, but it's evident that we didn't manage to destroy the core, hence why his consciousness still lives on. Unlike the Eidolon Sentient whose core was shattered and whose fragments now only exist as animalistic shells roaming the Plains. It's likely that his fellow Sentients are going to try and retrieve Hunhows core to give him a new body. That's what i think the next cinematic quest is going to end on. With the Sentients raising Hunhows heart out of the ocean and into space.
I'm not sure that *every single warframe* were made with infested people, maybe just the Umbra ones (yes, i know all warframes are made with infested flesh, but maybe only Umbra have people inside). Don't forget that the infestation can remember and make near-identical copies of the "original" infested form. Maybe I missed something in-game that pointed out that cryopods contain infested hybrids, but I don't recall anything like that. They look like the relay guards or operatives to me.
Yeah, I recall them mention warframes in general were infested people, I mean they didn't actually specify. But they were talking about warframes *back then* (Because it was a recording from back then) As in prior to the warframes we know now. So either is still possible. But when we craft a warframe in our ship, there's no mention of bringing an infested body aboard.
Niko Riemer we do use infested materials to make them now though, the foundry probably just gets the materials needed to replicate an artificial helminth infested human
I believe that Ballas looks like he does simply because thats what the Orokin thought was beautiful. Similar to how different cultures believe different things to represent beauty, as well as the concept of beauty changing throughout the ages, even right here in the U.S
I think it would be cool if they added more umbra frames and did them like excalibur where you not only need to make them, you also need to tame them, would make umbra frames a lot more interesting than prime ones where you just open cabbages until you get the parts
I am still confused though - why would balas have a blueprint for the almost behemoth like sentient that natah is... i'd say fused with? The body (margulis look alike body) is slowly being drained or converted as what I see in the teasers and trailers and what not, so is it a hostable shell made for natah to inhabit in order become her old self, or is it just a weapon for her? I'm legitimately confused by this.
It's probably her original form, and Hunhow or maybe Natah herself gave Ballas the design so he could provide the Marghulis body and personality template within the helmet for Natah to change into. She is the Mimic Queen, after all.
Its also possible that the Orokin have a standard of beauty that sees his sickly spindly form as higher. I remember in the Nekros Prime trailer Ballas spoke pretty highly of death. Maybe to immortals, the traits of a corpse is something beautiful in how alien it is to them.
The Orokin were monsters, through and through. They deserved far worse than what they got, and, considering what they got was genocided, that's saying something. Were it not for Ballas, we and the frames would likely still be little more than puppets for those gilded bastards. In that respect, he has my gratitude. That said, he was not exempt from their crimes. If anything, he might well be responsible for the worst of them, and that was an account that had to be settled. For now, at least. The Orokin. The Sentients. The Man in the Wall. Damn near every problem in the Origin System today is just an echo of these three monsters- their hubris, their greed, and their cruelty. The worst part? The hardest fight the Tenno may yet face isn't against these foes, it's against becoming them. Tenno were forged to face the war without, but only time will tell the outcome of the war within.
hey StallorD you have alot of good points in this. and much of your thoughts on newly presented lore mirror my own. id love to get in touch some time and discuss some of the more in depth details of this video as i have much id feel you'd be interested in and vice versa. PS considering the sentients can assimilate orokin technology. whos to say they cant/didnt assimilate an early umbra strain and bring it to the sentient cause. just a thought.
Another idea on the stalker's origin is that perhaps a Orokin used kuva to transfer their consciousness into a warframe. this would explain his unwavering hate for the tenno. even after learning of their true nature during the second dream.
You missed a couple of things but overall great video! Just so you know, the devs have specifically stated that they are going to make more Umbra quests, have hinted that the next may be Rhino umbra, and that they really would like to see all frames eventually have an umbra variant. I cant say as to the wisdom of that last one, god, ill be dead before that all would be finished, but yeah, thats a thing.
I dunno if it's possible, but I have three theories. (Not two or four, and five is right out) One, that Balus did a system reset on Natah and that her sudden loyalty to the Sentients isn't something she chose to do. Remember, Natah mentally was Margulis for how many hundreds of years? She was likely Margulis/Lotus for longer than she was Natah, and as Natah, she betrayed the sentients, her 'parents' and Balus, choosing instead to protect the Tenno. Her sudden 180 reeks of mind alteration, and a system reset would explain it. Two, that Natah's sudden 180 isn't true, and she knows the real threat now isn't the Grineer, it's the Sentients, and that she's essentially gone undercover to protect them. Remember, she supposedly loves Balus so much she instantly decided to betray her life's work/children, then when Balus is potentially dying she doesn't attack them, she talks calmly to them, takes a moment to tell them she's not being mind controlled (The classic line of people being mind controlled) and then leaves without harming them. Three, it could be both, and when Balus did a system reset a backup program for Natah either kicked in or is kicking in , and she'll eventually regain her own mind and resume protecting her 'children' she literally threw the moon into another dimension to protect. Either that or, as an artificial lifeform, a backup lotus will eventually pop up and we'll essentially have the War of Lotuses Or, as a 3.5 I guess, that Natah somehow had a plan to resurrect Margulis if she fell or reverted, and we wind up with Margulis vs Natah.
If she is, then something in her was changed, because what she's been doing in waking up then mentoring and training Tenno to fight anything and everything is 100% contrary to killing the Tenno. It one, increases their numbers, and two, enables them to protect themselves against even her kind. Hell, she hid the entire moon to protect us. If she wanted us dead she'd have blown it up and presto, every Tenno is dead.
He was a man bent on revenge, driven by guilt and shame, and under constant pressure to exhibit only literal perfection at all times...and his entire existence was under attack by a vastly superior and nigh-invincible army, which was created in the first place because the entire Origin System was steadily running out of resources to run the empire he was partially in charge of keeping in operation. Desperation makes people do crazy things.
Still unsure with the other Warframes being former Dax (aside from Umbra)... mostly because of the build components and the 'visible' inners of Excal in the PS4 Profit trailer... what to see in Ballas though is also unclear, since he was more of an Orokin boot licker at first and backstabber at the end, willing to have a Dax solder slowly assimilated and his son murdered. Think it was why I wanted him to die... though with the talk of Kuva, permadeath may not happen... especially with the Twin Queens... All I know is... Need to prepare for the New War
alot of people fail to mention what happends at your orbiter at the end of the sacrifice (once you complet it ) . (spoilers for the sacrifice) . . . . Following completion of quest, if the player encounters The Man in The Wall, they will ask the Operator if they are "feeling better, kiddo?" The Operator responds "I killed him... Isaah." After confirming that is how the Operator remembers it, the Man in The Wall simply states "Good" and vanishes.
There's just one thing I don't understand. Are the warframes and their abilities based on their hosts? They're all incredibly individual: Mesa the gunslinger, Hydroid the pirate, Octavia the DJ, etc. If so, then why was the Umbra frame a recreation of Excalibur and not an original design?
We do know something else about the Sacrifice from a video made on youtube "Warframe Developers Answer Unsolved Warframe Mysteries | Ars Technica". Ayatan Sculptures are actually polaroids of a person's mind and that this information plays an effect on the events of the Sacrifice. My guess is that a Ayatan of Margulas was used on the Lotus.
I could be very, very wrong, so sorry if this annoys any of you but I believe Ballas chose the gods bc of lust. Was watching prime videos after you mentioning mirage prime trailer, and in the Vauban prime trailer, the dialogue starts off with "Lust was my sin." Could be unrelated but just a thought. Correct me if im wrong, I really enjoy Warframe's lore
Natah is basically WarFrame's Darth Vader, and we're Luke. She's lost in her rage, feels cheated, abused and angry at how utterly she failed and was manipulated - but that will wash. She'll come to the realization that The Lotus may not have been real, but the bonds that were forged - are very well so. As with the Tenno, they'll have to wash away with Margulis, and realize that sentient or not - Natah is the only family they have had in a long while. I just hope it ends different than Vader, because I am not ready to wander the starchart alone in my orbiter - with no Space mom.
My theory is that the Orokin used sense manipulation, but also could have just thought that these grotesque forms were beauty. This is because the concept of beauty varies between culture to culture, and time period to time period. It might be possible that Ballas's form is what was considered beauty to the Orokin. Again, just a thought
So basically put, Umbras are the 1st or 2nd step of the experimentation where Orokin wanted to mix every technology available to them to make a living weapon surpassing the Dax (Technocyte, human consciousness, and high tech armor). 2nd or 1st being the fleshy infested golems that no one could control and then came the Primed versions that were refined and final production so as for the Tenno to control them as they found out that they could with the golems. (It's worth noting that Primed versions most likely don't use human infected hybrids) Time passed by and the Prime versions where either lost, destroyed, or succumbing to time so the Tenno attempted to make their own copies, albeit weaker ones which are the normal ones we see in game.
Stalker is hinted at being a Dax, which is why most people said that he couldn't be a warframe. But in the Sacrifice, Ballas says that the bloodline of the Dax dad that Umbra is would be infected with the Helminth and converted into warframes.
I do believe that in the next possible quest, The New War, that we will fight the Lotus. Or should I say Natah. We maybe will be able to convince her to be her Margulis self again after the battle, however it will probably be our last good bye with her. At some point, children will have go become independent from their mothers and fathers, we might never see Lotus again.
Gonna reiterate wat I've seen in other comments. Yur lore assessment is by far the most accurate and plausible I've come across, I'm a fellow lore nerd who enjoys a good story. And I always enjoy yours. Thanks.
What's the evidence that vanilla warframes are converted (using a different strain of helminth) rather than grown from scratch around an exo-skeleton terminator T800 style? That's not a claim I've seen explained very well at all nor can I find the evidence to support it.
Ballas and the Dax's fates are on par with Shakespearean tragedy. Ballas was forced(?) to betray his love and was responsible for her exicution. He loathed the Orokin and plotted their downfall and when the Dax, a servant of the Orokin discovered his schemes he took him and made him experience that same fate... Stripping him of his will and mortality he forced him to take the life of the person he cared for most forcing him to relive that moment for an eternity...
I always considered the possibility that Ballas experimented a bit of the helminth on himself (thus his jarring appearance) before turning to the warframes. Despite the sacrifice having answered a number of lore elements, it left just as many questions in its place.
Because in order for Ballas' strain to work as intended and create Umbra, it required a "Sacrifice" which is just Ballas being poetic and referring to Umbra killing Isaah.
Been waiting for this. It is a real shame that The Sacrifice merely confirmed theories and as a result, the only think I actually feel we learnt is that the Orokin were betrayed to the Sentients by Ballas, which honestly, nice and motivated as you present it, is undermining. just thought the Sentients were badasses.
In reference to the second dream. Or the operator unconsciously controls the warframe in the second dream since the warframe is pulling the sword out with the same motion the operator is grasping the stalker’s arm and also unconsciously making the warframe carry the operator. Every time the warframe is doing something seemingly without the operator, the operator is near it. If operators can control warframes within them would it not make sense that the operator could control them outside of the warframe? Which makes Umbra the only semi independent warframe with some degree of consciousness.
i mean, the possibility of parts of margulis living inside the helm could be confirmed due to the start of sacrifice quest. natah has turned into the sentient she is right now a while before the start of scarifice quest. So the only possibility of the helm calling to us is a shattered soul inside the lotus helm, which uses said words from lotus to express itself, since possibility of speaking from a simple helm is non-existent.
I always seen to go back to 2 things: 1.the line "dream, dream of what you want to be not of what you are" 2.end of the sacrifice her answer to when the tenno ask what have they done to you! there is a clear break in her voice and a pause as she says "nothinh this.....is what iam"I think the helmet was a way to stop the connection to the sentient hive mind allowing her to live as a mother to the tenno without the sentients calling her back, it might of even been made by ballas as a transference loop type thing to trap the sentient mind in a bid to get his love back but as it was based off the memorys from tenno it likely backfired as though the tenno eyes she only loved them, and after awhile he desided to just free the sentient side maybe out of spite but maybe to free the memorys of the only person he cares about.....maybe hes hoping we can bring her back witht hem memorys?
Now I'm hoping for some more cephalon lore update cause yours was a bit outdated after we learned ordis's story. That said, one on ordis himself would be good
You're the only Warframe lore buff that seems to get what is going on. So many of the others missed so many clues or lore or just inserted random far fetched personal theories.
wles mana cough cough DK
DKdiabetes
Don't worry about Dk, he just talks out of his ass
god his voice make me want to kms
DonkeyKongDiamantes
Mimic Queen... how did I not notice that?
White Void no one knew about the mimics before. That's why we believe lotus actually look like that.
White Void wow....that explain why our operator was confused and scared when he saw natah.
And it's entirely possible either Margulis or the entity known as Lotus still resides within the helmet, warning us about Ballas' return and Umbra's awakening
I tend to think that Margulis is indeed dead, but Ballas did try to pull something off to save her. All he managed to do is preserve a fragment of her consciousness and memory, which was then used to help Natah with her infiltration, so she would be able to deceive and manipulate Tenno more effectively. It's what resides in the helmet, which when joined with Natah creates a composite personality - Lotus. If we just force it back on her, it wouldn't be right. We thought Natah changed naturally, but that wasn't the case.
She realized that as well after Ballas freed her, that's why she's confused and asks her mother for advice... whose answer is basically "Become a destroyer, just like your daddy", putting Natah on the collision course with Tenno. She is lost, and doesn't know what to do.
Ballas is deluded, thinking that he can bring her back. But all he managed to do is make a Sentient sex-doll resembling his ex who he got killed.
I just realized, we could come a a choice scene where we could do one of three things:
Sun - Let Natah go
Neutral - Put the helmet back onto natah
Moon - Kill Natah
Just a far fetched idea.
"Until the old war rages anew..." that's a cool phrase
Oh god, I feel terrible about making a Helminth Charger, now. That's basically doing what Ballas did to people but to Kubrows.
its different while you mixed a kubrow with the infestation you never tortured it or did anything to it while ballas tried corrupting the warframe's minds
That is a fair concern, but on the other hand, it seems that Hemilith Chargers still act like Kubrows, so it's more than likely the Hemilith Cysts are far diluted versions of the infestation, changing the body but not the mind.
Well, isn't that means that Helminth Charger is a hint that Warframes are people before turned into WFs with Helminth virus
KUBROW UMBRA WHEN??!?
You use a Kubrow egg, so its likely that the Helminth Cyst is introduced to the egg and not to a mature Kubrow.
Mind you, Kubrow themselves are already genetically unstable and plagued by illness. I suspect this is actually satirical commentary on the state of Dog breeding as it is now.
I always thought Ballas' design, and possibly other orokin were based off of roman/greek sculptures. It's not out of the realm of possibility that the orokin could genetically modify themselves to look "perfect" in their own eyes. Now that I think about it, Dax soldiers kind of look like Roman soldiers as well.
When I first saw a picture of Ballas before The Apostasy Prologue, I thought the picture was of a statue and not actually him. I didn’t think he’d have dark grey skin like he does.
man orokin have some weird ass fews on perfect bodies then. Mostly talking about balas and his creepy long arm
I wonder if Ancients are infested Orokin. They all have long arms.
Lord-Taco-the-Great maybe but remember Balas has that one long arm for a reason so we can't say that all orokin have long grabby grabby arms.
I mean, I thought he was pretty. I thought that was part of the point as another dualism thing. He looks 'noble' but is actually kind of a dick?
YES. STALLORD HAS RETURNED TO BLESS US WITH MORE LORE ANALYSIS
Owen Fletcher may we sing god bless the king?
KOWALSKI ANALYSIS!
As I postulated during the Sacrifice videos talking about it's ending, it's very likely that 'Mother' has not sacrificed her reproduction capabilities. She could have very easily began the journey in sublight, avoiding the deadly radiation of the Void that would have been caused in the Solar Rails (and no doubt in their state of disrepair, any mishaps related to this) and then brought to speed in the state of the Origin System when Natah returned to her in the Sacrifice, with Ballus's role to tell of the Mother's return. If that is the case, this could very well mean a reproduction-capable sentient floating into space with the ashes of the old war not yet fully healed.
My only consolation, thus, is that even now the Tenno are still unlocking new weapons. If we wind up fighting the parental Sentients, it's very likely that it won't be with just Archwings, but the Railjack system as well, considering the sheer size of just Hunhow.
I do hope that Archwing gets some TLC before that, though. Like, the idea is cool, but the content's not there, and it's not really that fun.
Kathy Kat well they need to improve getting weapons for arkwing and mods.
I still believe that Ballas isn't "disfigured" from an Orokin perspective. His skin tone and asymmetry are probably quite intentional, and the Orokin are referred to in the Kuria poem as finding symmetry to be loathesome. I mean, even Ballas' outfit is very asymmetrical. This even ties back to their obsession with duality, as having duality within one's own body by having very distinct left and right sides would likely be seen as beautiful, or even divine.
Thesaurus Rex I think asymmetry is awful xD
and if you look at infested ancients, which are confirmed to be some form of an Orokin before they got infected, they look very similar to Ballas
That's my opinion too, the concept of what is beautiful varies wildly between cultures and the times. I believe that is what the orokin saw as perfection and since they were in comtrol of everything the regular humans saw it that way too
Kathy Kat I always had a very different interpretation of that synthesis entry. Rather than the Lorist somehow being converted into a dozen Ancients, the dozen Ancient (likely Orokin) Infested had consumed the Lorist's body and abilities, dividing her healing capabilities between them. While Infested conversion is very quick (it can happen to a Grineer in less than 30 seconds, though that may be because of a Grineer's already unstable genome), replication would seem to be slower than the day it would have taken, especially since the Lorist wasn't immediately revived by the Infested. (My evidence for the speed of replication is that Lephantis apparently reached the size it did through self replication, and if they could replicate that fast, Lephantis would be much more massive after a thousand years of replication). That said, we still have a lot to learn about how the Infested operate, and even what sorts of creatures some of the Infested are formed from (Boilers and Brood Mothers resemble no enemy we've yet encountered).
Kathy Kat I don't think you realize how insane the Orokin were. Ballas almost certainly would have been killed for such a rebellious choice, regardless of his position. The Ballas we see in the Sacrifice seems to still have his high ranking position and current appearance, which would make it unlikely that he was openly rebelling at that time.
Ok, I have a question:
If Lotus IS evil, then where are all my pets she was supposed to be taking care of? D':
They have been "taken care" of
Andres Gagge they are going to be EXECUTED.
They will be PURGED I mean disposed of by Ordis when they die from no care.
NPC 1352 Why are these kubrow still breathing MY AIIIRRRR???
NPC 1352 not exactly they are donated to konzu for his early lunch
WARFRAMES IS PEOPLE
Webbieratom 101 *are
iZapo *is
Stephen Rants **they
SoylentFrame
Webbieratom 101 *are. BTW, the arguing down here is kinda amusing
Two tormented souls
Warframe and Tenno
In synergie the Protect each other
The Frame shields the Tenno from harm
The Tenno relieving them from the gruesome memories
Kathy Kat 3) edgy poses
Symbiosis.
But you can have ANY of your warframes do the edgy pose.
ilovethelegend but no warframe can be as edgy as umbra.
Edge is power. So. Duh.
Clicked on this so damn fast.
Excalibur Umbra cringe
Flowwid G2A no don’t you dare call it cringe because it isn’t.
Aleksi134 do you even know what cringe is?
hi Umbra
Hey how’s Isaah... oh god I’m sorry I didn’t meant that.
"But until the Old War blazes anew, this, is what we know." Nice outro.
HOOOOOLD OOOOON...let me bring some soda...
Suda pop
This makes me wish we could get new advisor voices, with the conclusion of the sacrifice I doubt our Tenno hold The Lotus (or is it Natah now?) in as high esteem as we used to, it seemed like the “growing up” from relying on space mom and the realization that she isn’t perfect began with the war within and with this I feel like the operator can move on and use someone like Ordis, Teshin, or the syndicates for intel now instead of a fake Lotus.
Warframe Fan Budget for making new HQ and cheeky DE don't wanna put hotfix to change every single mission command dialogs
I’d imagine it’s because we can’t risk the rest of the system knowing that the Lotus has abandoned the tenno, so we have a fake Lotus as a cover up
I like the idea of having Teshin or choosing one of our syndicates to lead us. It'd take a lot for DE to do that though unless they just go with teshin or ordis.
BeyonDeath78 - I tbh can’t see how the rest of the system don’t see lotus has abandoned the tenno. I think they already know pretty much everything, especially after this umbra thing
Sabrewalker true enough; though “fake lotus” basically IS Ordis.
Gotta love how DE snuck in the Tennobyte text on the "Big Sentient" and it translates to "NATA". Sneaky, sneaky DE.
Tennobet?
Mokuto: warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Language Yeah, the Orokin language.
Where?
I still think that the Warframes WE make aren't actually people or made of infested people. I think that they're still machines built out of infested flesh. I believe that the first Warframes were people and every Frame created AFTER is just a copy who keep the original's traits. I say this because Ballas wasn't talking about EVERY frame, just the first ones.
Michael Rodriguez this is what i got from the quest too, ballas was referring to the first prototypes of warframes they used people but the result was monster with no control and then created the ones we know but they were puppets until they used the tenno to control them
It's obvious LMAO, ordis would have told us to collect a living corpus, ostron, syndicate member and etc. and put it on the helminth chamber just to make a warframe. Now that I said it, I think this is what they should do whenever a prime warframe is released because they are PRIME?
But in the infested room in the ship we do have a body lying down in a cryopod
Izuna Uchida well people still don’t understand so that’s why I made this comment.
#warframeslivesmatter
japoygee *Amen*
japoygee Limbo and Loki don't matter, only trolls like them
I'm not a troll and Loki and Limbo are some of my favorites.
@@misanthropicisolation4013 You're talking mad shit for somebody in *BANISH* range
@@lorax1274 Well, Limbo sorta offed himself so...yeah he's right
Cold; the air and water flowing
XYPHER Hard; the land we call our home
zef jansen Push; to keep the dark from comin'
Feel the weight of what we owe.
This the song of sons and daughters
Hide: the heart of who we are.
2:26 I should point out that Ballas specifically said that it was not the operators' force of will and their control of void power that heal the warframes. It was the fact that the 10-0 children's' experience of witnessing men turned into monsters and of being views as aliens give them the ability to "see inside" and understand the infestation-turned warframes "and take away its pain".
I have missed you dude. Extremely pleased to have a lore video again!
I dont think the Mother sacrificed her "womb" by travelling too the Origin System via the Rails...
I think Hunhow's assault force used that means as the pre-emptive attack (and assumed only need) against the Orokin that would have swiftly ended the threat.
I suspect that, when Hunhow and the others didnt "report back", The Mother assembled a second wave, and they began the long journey from Tau to Origin via normal space, and this is why The Mother is only now appearing on the scene...this is why The New War is coming.
Just my theory, though.
I highly suspect that Hunhow isn't gone, either. And that what remains of his essence will likely be recovered and given a new body by The Mother, her womb intact and able to give Hunhow that.
Again...theory, assumption, opinion. :)
This war won't be easy to win.
Oh sure it will...
We have Wally on our side... I mean, as much as you can trust a non-corporeal entity from the Void to be on your side! :D
Kathy Kat Except The eidolon is well and truly dead. What we’re fighting is basically just spooky bois.
for all we know its gonna be a mass effect style of gather all the people you can find throw them into some ships and hope to the god emperor that the enemy is the stupidest species to exist.
jokes aside Hunhow never talks about a mother or for lack of a term "wife", he talks about Natah as HIS daughter and lotus says that he was Natah's father, for all we know the mother is the first sentient the starfish like robot in the crewman's sanctuary file who has come to finish the job that Natah didn't and what turned her into the lotus, for all we know she is here to take the origin system for the sentients, or and im stretching this come to give us a god like recipe for cake.
I also suspect that Space Grandma is the original starfish Sentient prototype, and now, millenia later, she is swole af and gonna give it to ya.
Personally I don't think that frames are designed at all. I think Umbra frames are the first frame of their type, and formed out of exceptional people, the frames abilities based on their personality and skills.
Prime Warframes are High-quality replicas of these original Umbra frames, while regular frames are mass produced by infecting regular criminals.
If we take the Ember codex entry, that would lead me to assume that Kaleen was turned into Ember Umbra, the fire in her recent memory forming Embers fire-based Abilities.
Hopefighter vanilla frame are tenno creation by using orikin information. And also in the quest is reveal that no matter their status. Willing or not they still use the same technique on everyone.
umbras aren't the originals they can't be as we know that margulis is dead prior to the events of the sacrifice due to her death being the reason he is working with the sentients if the umbras were the original in our lore the codex would have stated as such umbra most likely is unique in that his creation was a purposeful torture he as far as we know was the only person to be willingly given an traumatic experience as its last memory before turning, i assume that for the other early frames the torture actually came after seeing as balas states that they only did that to try and regain control until the tenno showed up and they now had a better way. Most likely we as tenno will at a later time be able to awaken the latent minds in our warframes granting them the passive ability to function unbound. With that said i agree with the warframes arent designed and that yes its more likely that the bodies of the sacrificed take on a formed born from whatever the helminth strain finds within the memories and latent attributes of those sacrificed and then that form was then mass produced using cloned proxies
Griffin Page I forgot about that but that would atleast explain how they use their powers if the powers are already preset then you would only need a power source to fuel them
@@Gomenred Umbras were the 1st frames, but they failed as the minds if the people used went insane.... The Sentients were sent out into space after the Umbras were already created (If you listen during the Sacrifice you can hear Ballas saying that Hunhow knew about the failed Umbras)
After the Sentients were sent, the incident with the Zariman happened (the creation of the Tenno)
After that, the Tenno returned to the Orokin, but they couldn't control their powers. That's where Margulas comes in, she was in charge of finding a way for the Tenno to control their powers, and thus the Prime frames were created (and yes, the Primes were built specifically for each Tennos certain abilities)
The Primes were not humans, as the testing on humans was a failure (the Umbras) this is further confirmed by Hunhow referring to our frames as empty metal puppets (aka they have no sentience) the scene in the 2nd Dream does not disprove this, as right after your frame breaks the War, you can see your Tenno using partial transference using only his had that touches the frames back, so your frame breaking the War was partial transference
I was gonna watch this later when I got the notification. Then I realised it was your video and instantly clicked
I like your idea that Lotus is being manipulated through get sentient hive mind. I've been thinking the same thing since she always seems to be behind someone else's shadow. First, Hunhow. Second, Ballas. Now, the Mother.
I see, interesting. In a way the not only were the Warframes able to relieve the Tenno of their pain, but the Tenno relieved their pain.
Koen Kohrt I wouldn't call it as "warframes able to relieve their pain" as their pain was actually their void powers which make them not just unnatural but also dangerous. Pain of carrying the weight of the void to avoid turning themselves as void demons (permanently?). So I conclude that the somatic pods heal the tenno directly and warframes heal the tenno INDIRECTLY.
Izuna Uchida The Tenno's pain was their violent outbursts that they had, aka their inability to control their void powers. What I meant by the warframes relieving the Tenno of their pain is that the Warframes helped the Tenno control their powers. The Somatic pods did heal the Tenno, but it nullified their connection to the Void temporarily. They both 'healed' the Tenno 'directly', but the Warframes did it much better.
New StallorD?!? DROP EVERYTHING! time to learn
1:50 the concept of the umbra strain would be an interesting storytelling device for stories from the origin system. Stories form people such as a high level orokin official, one of the first grineer, or the transferring of people trapped in transference loops like Silvana.
But if the Helminth strain subdues the host´s will, why Ballas says that all of the warframes rebelled? (and this before the fall of the empire). From what I gather I believe that all the warframes were made with the helminth strain and that at first they seemed docile but then rebelled against the Orokin. It is most likely that their subdued personality eventually emerged and they acted on their own. During Umbra´s "taming cutscene" Ballas says that they tortured the warframes with no avail, until the tenno came (Rhino Prime codex also supports this).
I think that most warframes weren´t as mad or angry as Umbra. Even Rhino Prime calmed down pretty quickly after seeing the operator (and he had just escaped from his prison). Perhaps most warframes didn´t have painful memories like Umbra, but were still subjected to torture at the hands of the orokin. This made the transference process a lot smoother than Umbra´s.
Maybe the warframes chose to aid the Tenno in the fight against the sentients not because of the Orokin Empire but just to survive, and at the end of the Old War they decided to kill their creators. They probably shut down the transference by force (we know Umbra can do it at a larger scale, ejecting the operator from his mind) so that they could kill the great seven without the interference of the tenno. This must be why the Tenno don´t remember this event, because they were unaware of it.
The other strain that let them keep their full mind. It seemed like they were find and immune to the infestation in mind but that soon changed. At least I think.
not sure about the first or second part, but the third part is a really cool thought!
I actually believe that I have the answer to the first at least, in the ball of exposition that we find in the umbras ,ill call it chamber for lack of a better word, tells us that the first proto frames (before the tenno) were suppose to be controlled by the hemlith who in turn would be ordered to do their bidding by the orokin, seeing that the infested are a hive mind and the hives in a colony seem to be the brains or some sort of control centers it would make sense that they thought this in this is the case, but the original hemlith strain is stated to only partly corrupt the mind (Ballas essentially says the initial reason to do this was to keep the Dax's fighting prowess), and as seen by Hayden Tenno in the Darksector game ,which is the same universe in a drastically different time, the people that are infected can by sheer force of will (and massive pain reduction) retain their minds and they retain their individuality, the hemlith strain by that reasoning could be broken by the more resilient and resistant Dax, hemlith would no longer control the proto-frames who would most probably go insane because It is stated many times that the infestation causes so much pain to its host that they become lobotomized and completely complacent to its will, of course the hemlith being a weaker strain wouldn't break their minds to such a degree instead much like Valkyr they would start to wildly swing at whatever and whoever came close enough including other proto-frames and the orokin themselves, thus stopping the continuation of that sect of warframe production and usage.
@@andrewdrane5349 Remember that, according to DE, Dark Sector isn't canon to Warframe.
This is all incorrect.... The Umbras are the only frames made from humans... The Umbras were the ones that rebelled, not the Primes, as the Umbras existed before the Sentients left, since Ballas clearly states during Sacrifice that Hunhow knew about Umbras
It is also stated by Ballas that Hunhow did not know about the existence of the Tenno (that's 1 of the big reveals, that Ballas told Hunhow everything about the Tenno and where to find them
So taking all of this, we have these things in the time line
1. Umbras created and failed
2. Sentients are sent out ti colonize other planets
3. The Zariman incident happens, creating the Tenno
4. Margulas takes the Tenno in and is put in charge of finding a way to control the Tennos powers
5. The Primes are created so that tge Tenno can transfer their minds into something else, which helps control their power
If you actually pay attention at the end of Rhino Primes Codex, you'd know that Rhino was controlled by a Tenno at the time.... The Tenno wakes up inside if Rhino, and goes berserk, he chases 2 people into a wierd room, the room where the Tenno are being held, Rhino sees this and realizes what's happening (transference into the frame) and calms down... at the very end one of the 2 people being chased says that they are gonna get promoted, why is that? Because they just preformed the 1st successful transference experiment
More evidence towards the Primes and non Primes not being people, is Hunhow calling our frames metal puppets (not flesh puppets) and no other frame besides Umbra can move on it's own (and no, the frame breaking the War during 2nd Dream is not it becoming sentient, it us the Tenno using partial transference, as we see him/her do again right after when he touches the frames back with a hand full of energy)
About Natah´s dream. I think that after receiving the memories of Margulis and hearing "Dream... not of what you are... but of what you want to be." Natah accepted her urges of being a mother. She is an infertile sentient, but she chose/dreamed of being a mother. However, after the Tenno´s growth and distrust, coupled with Palladino reminding her that she was NOT Margulis and Ballas interference, she rejected her new role as the Lotus and accepted what she was.
Takezo Kimura hopefully we get to kill her then. I've got enough hate for holo-lotus that it's now spilling onto the original lotus.
Kathy kat. I don't believe the lotus is dead or the idea of the lotus to Natah she had all the chance to kill our tenno when she was leaving for the sentient mother, she could now be a hybrid of the lotus and Natah but for lack of a better word, the programing that is Natah broke through and took over the mother that is the lotus when Ballas ripped her from the "lotus cave" and all her attachments to the tenno the vision we saw a last ditch attempt to warn the Tenno of the impending doom and a last vision of what she wanted to be to the Tenno, a mother they never had, before she was changed by the sentient mother back to Natah
Love your videos! Cant wait for the New war quest! Venus looks amazing!
Love how much time you put into your warframe lore. Although I never played the game before, my brother does. He was the one who got me into Warframe lore. I hope to play the game someday.
Part of me is curious about what it would be like if Ballas chose Margulis instead.
He probably would have been killed too.
And there would've been any Umbra frames...
There might not have been any Warframes at all, for that matter. Ballas presided over the Warframe project AFTER Marghulis' execution, after all. The other Executors were in favor of burying the entire fiasco and not looking back--Ballas had to hard sell the entire thing to them in order to keep the Warframes and Tenno on the table instead of in the dirt.
If Ballas did choose Margulis then everyone would be dead. Archimedian Parintol's colonization plan was given the green light long before any of the other projects, so the Sentients were already on their way to the Origin System. Heck, Margulis herself was part of the Warframe Project itself, so to have both Margulis AND Ballas killed would have actually doomed everyone.
Evil as he was, Ballas did betray to orokin, and he did create the Warframes, which did (temporarily) defeat the Sentients.
Another womb in the sky, forbidden to our kind
Tenno? Tenno go where ever the hell we want. We're the Space Police!
Space Dad lets us use the rails without paying the sterility tax (I think...)
You never know, though, with crazy space anomalies inhabited by mysterious omnipresent god-beings of unknown/untold/unimaginable power...
Thank you for feeling up to do a video on this so soon.
1:19 I've always suspected that the base instinct is always sort of subconsciously active - the Warframe's mind manages running, jumping, and balance while the Tenno's mind manages aiming, decisions, and powers.
So wait, isn't there lore that states that the Orokin intentionally designed the Sentients to die out though? So it was a first strike AND revenge?
To be honest, not sure why but i kinda hope Hunhow will stay our Warframe's main antagonist.
It seems that Lotus' mother is going to be the antagonist for the The New War quest, but Hunhow should stay the overall villain.
He has received so much build-up for his full return, it would be a waste to just sideline it now.
What i think/hope is going to happen is the following:
We destroyed Hunhow's body in the old war, but it's evident that we didn't manage to destroy the core, hence why his consciousness still lives on.
Unlike the Eidolon Sentient whose core was shattered and whose fragments now only exist as animalistic shells roaming the Plains.
It's likely that his fellow Sentients are going to try and retrieve Hunhows core to give him a new body. That's what i think the next cinematic quest is going to end on.
With the Sentients raising Hunhows heart out of the ocean and into space.
I'm not sure that *every single warframe* were made with infested people, maybe just the Umbra ones (yes, i know all warframes are made with infested flesh, but maybe only Umbra have people inside). Don't forget that the infestation can remember and make near-identical copies of the "original" infested form. Maybe I missed something in-game that pointed out that cryopods contain infested hybrids, but I don't recall anything like that. They look like the relay guards or operatives to me.
It was stated that it was every single warframe in the quest.
Acidic Goddess where does it say that?
Yeah, I recall them mention warframes in general were infested people, I mean they didn't actually specify. But they were talking about warframes *back then* (Because it was a recording from back then)
As in prior to the warframes we know now. So either is still possible. But when we craft a warframe in our ship, there's no mention of bringing an infested body aboard.
Niko Riemer we do use infested materials to make them now though, the foundry probably just gets the materials needed to replicate an artificial helminth infested human
Acidic Goddess No there are hollow golems and the dax infected soldiers. Ballas says so in The Second Dream when talking to Margulis.
I believe that Ballas looks like he does simply because thats what the Orokin thought was beautiful. Similar to how different cultures believe different things to represent beauty, as well as the concept of beauty changing throughout the ages, even right here in the U.S
I think it would be cool if they added more umbra frames and did them like excalibur where you not only need to make them, you also need to tame them, would make umbra frames a lot more interesting than prime ones where you just open cabbages until you get the parts
I am still confused though - why would balas have a blueprint for the almost behemoth like sentient that natah is... i'd say fused with? The body (margulis look alike body) is slowly being drained or converted as what I see in the teasers and trailers and what not, so is it a hostable shell made for natah to inhabit in order become her old self, or is it just a weapon for her? I'm legitimately confused by this.
It's probably her original form, and Hunhow or maybe Natah herself gave Ballas the design so he could provide the Marghulis body and personality template within the helmet for Natah to change into. She is the Mimic Queen, after all.
You predicted Jovian Concord. *Outstanding move*
Hello!
So each time we make a new frame we are using those guys from the defense missions?
Are you going to make a video on the Chimera Prologue?
Its also possible that the Orokin have a standard of beauty that sees his sickly spindly form as higher. I remember in the Nekros Prime trailer Ballas spoke pretty highly of death. Maybe to immortals, the traits of a corpse is something beautiful in how alien it is to them.
Sometimes what is rare is viewed as beautiful.
Lore has it that the Orokin valued symmetry over all else. I like the idea that Ballas is not maintaining it as a rejection of the Orokin.
boomslangCA Thats rather doubtful with how most frames and rooms in the tileset are designed
Damn. They had necrophilia then?
boomslangCA Maybe the long arm is a trait all orokins suffers from when their body is left uncared for. Like with Ballas and the Infested Ancients
The Orokin were monsters, through and through. They deserved far worse than what they got, and, considering what they got was genocided, that's saying something.
Were it not for Ballas, we and the frames would likely still be little more than puppets for those gilded bastards. In that respect, he has my gratitude. That said, he was not exempt from their crimes. If anything, he might well be responsible for the worst of them, and that was an account that had to be settled. For now, at least.
The Orokin.
The Sentients.
The Man in the Wall.
Damn near every problem in the Origin System today is just an echo of these three monsters- their hubris, their greed, and their cruelty.
The worst part? The hardest fight the Tenno may yet face isn't against these foes, it's against becoming them. Tenno were forged to face the war without, but only time will tell the outcome of the war within.
To be fair, the Sentients are also creation of the Orokin, so you can cut down this list by one.
hey StallorD you have alot of good points in this. and much of your thoughts on newly presented lore mirror my own.
id love to get in touch some time and discuss some of the more in depth details of this video as i have much id feel you'd be interested in and vice versa.
PS considering the sentients can assimilate orokin technology. whos to say they cant/didnt assimilate an early umbra strain and bring it to the sentient cause.
just a thought.
Another idea on the stalker's origin is that perhaps a Orokin used kuva to transfer their consciousness into a warframe.
this would explain his unwavering hate for the tenno. even after learning of their true nature during the second dream.
Had to drop playing to watch dis
IM WOKE A STALLORD VIDEO
One person accidentally hit the dislike button?
John Northrup naaa. Prob DK and his stalker family.
Imagine hugging your warframe and it hugs back
Me a tenno:*Hugs Excalibur*
Non umbra Excalibur:*Hugs back*
Me:You weren't supposed to do that but ok
It's almost 3 AM but I knew I had to watch this
Now, I want to know if we'll eventually head to Tau. Maybe fix/rebuild our end of the Solar Rail in the Origin system
This is why we love warframe
You missed a couple of things but overall great video! Just so you know, the devs have specifically stated that they are going to make more Umbra quests, have hinted that the next may be Rhino umbra, and that they really would like to see all frames eventually have an umbra variant. I cant say as to the wisdom of that last one, god, ill be dead before that all would be finished, but yeah, thats a thing.
I dunno if it's possible, but I have three theories. (Not two or four, and five is right out)
One, that Balus did a system reset on Natah and that her sudden loyalty to the Sentients isn't something she chose to do. Remember, Natah mentally was Margulis for how many hundreds of years? She was likely Margulis/Lotus for longer than she was Natah, and as Natah, she betrayed the sentients, her 'parents' and Balus, choosing instead to protect the Tenno. Her sudden 180 reeks of mind alteration, and a system reset would explain it.
Two, that Natah's sudden 180 isn't true, and she knows the real threat now isn't the Grineer, it's the Sentients, and that she's essentially gone undercover to protect them. Remember, she supposedly loves Balus so much she instantly decided to betray her life's work/children, then when Balus is potentially dying she doesn't attack them, she talks calmly to them, takes a moment to tell them she's not being mind controlled (The classic line of people being mind controlled) and then leaves without harming them.
Three, it could be both, and when Balus did a system reset a backup program for Natah either kicked in or is kicking in , and she'll eventually regain her own mind and resume protecting her 'children' she literally threw the moon into another dimension to protect. Either that or, as an artificial lifeform, a backup lotus will eventually pop up and we'll essentially have the War of Lotuses Or, as a 3.5 I guess, that Natah somehow had a plan to resurrect Margulis if she fell or reverted, and we wind up with Margulis vs Natah.
Or four SHE'S AN EVIL ASS HOLE HELLBENT ON KILLING THE TENNO LIKE HER FIRST MISSION
If she is, then something in her was changed, because what she's been doing in waking up then mentoring and training Tenno to fight anything and everything is 100% contrary to killing the Tenno. It one, increases their numbers, and two, enables them to protect themselves against even her kind. Hell, she hid the entire moon to protect us. If she wanted us dead she'd have blown it up and presto, every Tenno is dead.
I will tame 1 of every warframe in existance
then i will heard them on to my orbiter
then beat the crap out of every sing sentient
StallordDeez Nuts
Before we only knew that they were made of Helminth... But damn, made of PEOPLE? Ballas you sick maniac.
He was a man bent on revenge, driven by guilt and shame, and under constant pressure to exhibit only literal perfection at all times...and his entire existence was under attack by a vastly superior and nigh-invincible army, which was created in the first place because the entire Origin System was steadily running out of resources to run the empire he was partially in charge of keeping in operation.
Desperation makes people do crazy things.
Finally! Thanks for this great video always love your content!
Great work noticing all the little hints. You are my new favorite Warframe loremaster :B
Your the best lore and review from warframe thank you homie
I pray I can still remind her who she SHOULD be!!!
Who tf are those 4 dislikes?? Straight up you can't get a better explanation than this.
Well now there's even more...
First time watching one of these videos.
Vaatividya is that you?
Still unsure with the other Warframes being former Dax (aside from Umbra)... mostly because of the build components and the 'visible' inners of Excal in the PS4 Profit trailer... what to see in Ballas though is also unclear, since he was more of an Orokin boot licker at first and backstabber at the end, willing to have a Dax solder slowly assimilated and his son murdered. Think it was why I wanted him to die... though with the talk of Kuva, permadeath may not happen... especially with the Twin Queens...
All I know is... Need to prepare for the New War
I got the notification for this just now, two days later....
alot of people fail to mention what happends at your orbiter at the end of the sacrifice (once you complet it )
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(spoilers for the sacrifice)
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Following completion of quest, if the player encounters The Man in The Wall, they will ask the Operator if they are "feeling better, kiddo?" The Operator responds "I killed him... Isaah." After confirming that is how the Operator remembers it, the Man in The Wall simply states "Good" and vanishes.
There's just one thing I don't understand. Are the warframes and their abilities based on their hosts? They're all incredibly individual: Mesa the gunslinger, Hydroid the pirate, Octavia the DJ, etc. If so, then why was the Umbra frame a recreation of Excalibur and not an original design?
We do know something else about the Sacrifice from a video made on youtube "Warframe Developers Answer Unsolved Warframe Mysteries | Ars Technica".
Ayatan Sculptures are actually polaroids of a person's mind and that this information plays an effect on the events of the Sacrifice. My guess is that a Ayatan of Margulas was used on the Lotus.
I could be very, very wrong, so sorry if this annoys any of you but I believe Ballas chose the gods bc of lust. Was watching prime videos after you mentioning mirage prime trailer, and in the Vauban prime trailer, the dialogue starts off with "Lust was my sin." Could be unrelated but just a thought. Correct me if im wrong, I really enjoy Warframe's lore
Natah is basically WarFrame's Darth Vader, and we're Luke. She's lost in her rage, feels cheated, abused and angry at how utterly she failed and was manipulated - but that will wash. She'll come to the realization that The Lotus may not have been real, but the bonds that were forged - are very well so. As with the Tenno, they'll have to wash away with Margulis, and realize that sentient or not - Natah is the only family they have had in a long while.
I just hope it ends different than Vader, because I am not ready to wander the starchart alone in my orbiter - with no Space mom.
My theory is that the Orokin used sense manipulation, but also could have just thought that these grotesque forms were beauty. This is because the concept of beauty varies between culture to culture, and time period to time period. It might be possible that Ballas's form is what was considered beauty to the Orokin.
Again, just a thought
I'm still unclear about what happened with Lotus. Definitely my fault for not understanding. Not the video.
So basically put, Umbras are the 1st or 2nd step of the experimentation where Orokin wanted to mix every technology available to them to make a living weapon surpassing the Dax (Technocyte, human consciousness, and high tech armor). 2nd or 1st being the fleshy infested golems that no one could control and then came the Primed versions that were refined and final production so as for the Tenno to control them as they found out that they could with the golems. (It's worth noting that Primed versions most likely don't use human infected hybrids) Time passed by and the Prime versions where either lost, destroyed, or succumbing to time so the Tenno attempted to make their own copies, albeit weaker ones which are the normal ones we see in game.
If, just if you publish some sort of lore manual, I WILL PAY FOR THAT SHIT
Remember that please
Stalker is hinted at being a Dax, which is why most people said that he couldn't be a warframe. But in the Sacrifice, Ballas says that the bloodline of the Dax dad that Umbra is would be infected with the Helminth and converted into warframes.
I do believe that in the next possible quest, The New War, that we will fight the Lotus. Or should I say Natah. We maybe will be able to convince her to be her Margulis self again after the battle, however it will probably be our last good bye with her. At some point, children will have go become independent from their mothers and fathers, we might never see Lotus again.
Gonna reiterate wat I've seen in other comments. Yur lore assessment is by far the most accurate and plausible I've come across, I'm a fellow lore nerd who enjoys a good story. And I always enjoy yours. Thanks.
What's the evidence that vanilla warframes are converted (using a different strain of helminth) rather than grown from scratch around an exo-skeleton terminator T800 style? That's not a claim I've seen explained very well at all nor can I find the evidence to support it.
Ballas and the Dax's fates are on par with Shakespearean tragedy.
Ballas was forced(?) to betray his love and was responsible for her exicution. He loathed the Orokin and plotted their downfall and when the Dax, a servant of the Orokin discovered his schemes he took him and made him experience that same fate... Stripping him of his will and mortality he forced him to take the life of the person he cared for most forcing him to relive that moment for an eternity...
I always considered the possibility that Ballas experimented a bit of the helminth on himself (thus his jarring appearance) before turning to the warframes. Despite the sacrifice having answered a number of lore elements, it left just as many questions in its place.
So why is it called the sacrifice other than it sounds really cool
Because in order for Ballas' strain to work as intended and create Umbra, it required a "Sacrifice" which is just Ballas being poetic and referring to Umbra killing Isaah.
Ah, so thats your take on why the defense objective is called Warframe Cryopod. That actually make sense. I neverr thought of that one
Dude, you deleted your livestream of that puzzle game? :((( was my favourite chill thing to watch
As I reflected on Ballas’ comments about killing potential allies, I wondered if allowing Teshin to kill the Grineer Queens was such a hot idea. 😬
Yeah, my Shedu can't come soon enough... Just missing two parts...
Still a big question in my head what is this 'fire' that spacenana refering to? The abilities to reproduce? Or something far beyond?
Natah shot first
I just got back in after years away... I don't remember a single one of these cutscenes......
Been waiting for this. It is a real shame that The Sacrifice merely confirmed theories and as a result, the only think I actually feel we learnt is that the Orokin were betrayed to the Sentients by Ballas, which honestly, nice and motivated as you present it, is undermining. just thought the Sentients were badasses.
Sacrifice is now replayable and has somachord fragments my dude! time to get the proper versions of the soundtrack up!
In reference to the second dream. Or the operator unconsciously controls the warframe in the second dream since the warframe is pulling the sword out with the same motion the operator is grasping the stalker’s arm and also unconsciously making the warframe carry the operator. Every time the warframe is doing something seemingly without the operator, the operator is near it. If operators can control warframes within them would it not make sense that the operator could control them outside of the warframe? Which makes Umbra the only semi independent warframe with some degree of consciousness.
Umbra wasn't inflicted with a special substrain of Helminth, he was subjected to torture.
i mean, the possibility of parts of margulis living inside the helm could be confirmed due to the start of sacrifice quest. natah has turned into the sentient she is right now a while before the start of scarifice quest. So the only possibility of the helm calling to us is a shattered soul inside the lotus helm, which uses said words from lotus to express itself, since possibility of speaking from a simple helm is non-existent.
I always seen to go back to 2 things: 1.the line "dream, dream of what you want to be not of what you are" 2.end of the sacrifice her answer to when the tenno ask what have they done to you! there is a clear break in her voice and a pause as she says "nothinh this.....is what iam"I think the helmet was a way to stop the connection to the sentient hive mind allowing her to live as a mother to the tenno without the sentients calling her back, it might of even been made by ballas as a transference loop type thing to trap the sentient mind in a bid to get his love back but as it was based off the memorys from tenno it likely backfired as though the tenno eyes she only loved them, and after awhile he desided to just free the sentient side maybe out of spite but maybe to free the memorys of the only person he cares about.....maybe hes hoping we can bring her back witht hem memorys?
Now I'm hoping for some more cephalon lore update cause yours was a bit outdated after we learned ordis's story. That said, one on ordis himself would be good