Then he'd have to reveal his face. Currently, he's like Charlie from Charlie's Angels ... but without the angels. I'm not sure it would be appropriate to reveal his identity.
@@visionsofhere3745 What if Viki Pipe is Jago in drag ? Nah,not possible. Nobody could imitate a lady that well. And hidden in there somewhere Viki is a compliment !!
But maybe it is Geoff Marshall using the text written by Vicky Pipe? Vicky has a way wickeder sense of humor than that sweet innocent and adorable exterior promises.
For what it's worth, the bit at 0:10 is probably more Google's fault than Wikipedia's. As I recall, the feature where Google responds to a query with a little box containing their best guess at an answer is called Google Knowledge Graph, which is generated programmatically from some machine analysis of their enormous databases. It can be a convenient feature, but it has come under criticism for sometimes giving misleading or outright false information (as in this instance), and also for depriving the sites it lifts the data from of visitors.
Thanks for explaining that! I've always wondered why the results in that box can be misleading, especially if you don't click through and read the original page.
Indeed. The Wikipedia article that is précised at 0:10 contains absolutely no reference to Jago, and there is no evidence whatsoever that Wikipedia thinks Jago is Geoff, or indeed has ever heard of Jago Hazzard. The link does suggest that Google thinks that Wikipedia thinks that Jago is Geoff, but hey Google is just a set of surprisingly unintelligent algorithms.
@@chriswood5205 As someone once said, we were once afraid that the machines would develop intelligence and take over the world. The problem is that we've given the world to the machines when they're still as dumb as a box of rocks.
@@Tevildo that reminds me of the “we tricked sand into thinking” thing, and my brain wants to mash them together. Something like “dumb as a box of rocks we tricked into thinking”
In the state of Kentucky in the United States of America the government sent workers out all over the country in 1868 to work on more accurate maps and names of towns and areas all over the United States. During the American Civil War bad maps and unknown names of areas were blamed for many lost battles and bad communications errors. A valley in eastern Kentucky one of these workers came too was only populated by my great great grandmother Edith & Elmer Coomer and their kids. He stayed two days with those grandparents walking and maping the valley. The map maker wrote down Edithville on the map where the house was and named the valley Elmers Hallow. Those became Eddsville & Elm Valley over time. Then Eville and M Valley. Then a dam was built to make electricity and both disappeared under Kentucky's now second largest lake in 1974. Funny how names of places change and sometimes disappear.
I'm here for Geoff's 'The Least Used Fish and Chip Shop in Each County' and 'All the Fish and Chip Shops', like All the Stations. Come to a fish and chip shop, tick, enter, a good ol' plaice and chips, then move on.
My understanding is that James's is the correct possessive spelling of something belonging to James. However, in formal English, the second "s" is not applied to Biblical or Classical names. So you would say Jesus' disciples. Therefore St. James' would be correct if you see St. James as Classical or Biblical. It seems to be open to interpretation, which might explain the differences between London, Newcastle, and Exeter. But at the end of the day, as Jago hinted, it only matters to pedants. What is annoying though, is when people incorrectly apply the possessive apostrophe to plurals! e.g. "Car's for sale" which makes me think car's what?
One of the weirdest rules in the Associated Press Style Guide is about the possessive of singular nouns ending in S. It states that apostrophe-S is correct _unless_ the noun ends in a double S _and_ the next word in the sentence begins with S. So "boss's boss" is fine, but "boss's secretary" is just too many Ses in a row, so it has to be "boss' secretary".
Me, despite having not been to London once let alone interacted with the London Underground, watching videos about the London Underground: Hm, Interesting
You would be most welcome to visit any time you like and experience the eery awkwardness of seating layouts purposely designed to make people stare at each other who by their nature do everything they can to avoid eye contact, further exasperated by the LU being a Covid incubator. As long as you're not from a Red country you won't have to pay two thousand two hundred and twenty five Great British Pounds, to stay in our wonderful little hotels/covid prisons.
Jago's tales of the city's antique toy train are more interesting than the London that surrounds it, in many cases. Stations evocatively named after brooks, hills, dales and greens tend to hide their origins under 10ft of concrete. And Blackfriars is notably short on Dominicans.
Yes, would love a series of name change videos. It would be nice to see discontinued services thrown in as well for whenever they have name changes for stations. Perhaps that discontinued services could also have a number of notable stations that have closed down.
"Next up is Paddington, which was originally called..." Was so hoping you would say "originally called Paddington Bear" just to wind up non-British viewers who might not realise you were kidding them. Also, in a recent video you talked about a massive steam engine and commented that you might make a video about it. Am adding my vote for yes to the others who said to do it in the comments about that video. Just make it already!
Pete Smith. Your comment is worth more than a mere "like". Incidentally that engine was called a decopod( I think). Let's hope Mr. Hazzard doesn't forget.
I’m so old I can remember riding on the Circle Line in red-painted (later plain aluminium) R-Class stock with their distinctive flared edges. Quite the opposite of today’s stock with it’s tucked-in lower edges. I read somewhere that it was designed to make people stand back from the platform edge. Thinking hard I can even remember the sound and smell of that stock!
Worked on london underground/ tfl for 34 years , learned more history in a month watching these videos. TFL gift horse mouth , employ, Jag now, got croonies earning shed loads more for less input. Jag I salute you
Another fascinating video, thanks Geoff ;) I'd add that James' and James's are pronounced the same, they're different way of doing the possessive for a word that ends in s
Even the experts only have style guides not hard rules .... the Park is St James's, but other parks named after the same St James are variously St James's, St James', St James, ....
Part of me wishes I could be be a fly on the wall listening to the inane committee conversations by the powers-that-be about whether to include the-THE, whether to drop the ROAD, or enduring the advocate for adding extra babble for a nearby wants-to-be-up-and-coming-area. The other part of me knows I'd turn into the Hulk instead and smash the committee room.
Seriously, you would not as you would be driven mad. I have been to those sort of meetings in other contexts, and more time can get spent discussing those sort of things, with more passion than anything else.
It seems they actually went around getting rid of the word Road and Street from there station names, which makes it feel cleaner and easier. Having a THE at monument was always silly, so it's good that went
For clarity on the pronunciation of 'Praed Street' see the 101ers song 'Rabies (From The Dogs of Love) during which you will hear the Praed Street Clinic mentioned. Joe Strummer's dulcet tones will no doubt provide total and complete clarity on the pronunciation situation. Yes.
The Dr Who story The Web of Fear set in the London Underground of 1975 though made in 1968 shows Barbican as Aldersgate (and has no Victoria Line) on its tube map...
Internal LU documents like timetables do differentiate the Paddington Sub-Surface stations into Paddington (Cir) and Paddington (Sub). The Sub being short for suburban and the Cir being short for Circle.
Paddington Sub is a good name for the Praed Street and Bakerloo stations. The H&C (etc) station could then become Paddington Dom, to reflect its elevated status.
Au contraire, monsieur. St. James' is the only correct way. As a Jones, my possessive only has one 's'. The extra 's' is used only by the ill-educated and grocers.
Thank you have just answered a query of mine. When working in London in 1974 I caught the tube to haring Cross and walked up/down Vickers Lane. Many years later I returned and it was called Embankment…I was discombobulated…I am no longer!
Jago, you could make a video about an ant crawling over your sandwich and it would be interesting. Your videos are little vignette gems always eagerly anticipated.
@@falafel4618 - I'm Australian, so I had to do a quick lookup on Milton Keynes. It looks very attractive with its parks and gardens. Somewhere to get an ant crawling on your sandwich.
Now a map of the Underground that has each station marked with 'all the names it has been known as over the years' would be rather an unwieldy tome but entertaining none the less. That said, is would also like to see them issue a tube map in the style of Beck's original to celebrate the anniversary of CTY's mustache.
The London Underground: A Diagrammatic History. It's out of print, but does exactly this, with dates. It also shows some name changes Jago missed, like Kensington (High Street), and variations on White City!
As a Swedish London tube junkie living in Stockholm I would look forward to getting more "fixes" in a series on the various station name changes over the years.
When the Metropolitan Railway extended to Liverpool Street, the terminal had just opened and people were probably not used to it yet. And yes, Bishopsgate was a freight station at this point, but it was the passenger terminal for 35 years, before the line extended to Liverpool Street. So I think they chose the name to show that it was the terminal of the same line, despite it being a completely different station.
It's amazing how you can condense so much research potential into such a concise clear video without going down too many interesting rabbit holes. Geoff did a really nice video on mapping Paddington alone. And don't get started on punctuaionnnarrrrrggh.
Thanks for yet another very interesting and well produced video. Your videos are always high points in the week and I look forward to the next one eagerly.
Many moons back I lived opposite Ladbroke Grove tube station. Never realised it had so many names changes. Noisy fun happy place. But happier to have emigrated to Greenwich.
Yes, I thought it was going to be a quick video too, but as always there were lots of extra factual nuggets to dig out. Enlightening as always. I do agree Paddington is confusing - it would have been a shock to people coming up the Circle/District and thinking from the 1960s tube map they could seamlessly change on to the Met/H&C but actually having to exit and walk along the mainline platforms! "Should have gone to Edgware Road..." At other times the map has distinguished more successfully between the two stations at Paddington, which have also switched in relative importance and service levels. 30 years ago to go eastbound it was best to go to Praed Street (double the trains); now, it's Bishops Road (all through services). Hammersmith is another place where the two unconnected stations caught me out long ago.
Totally fascinating! Thanks Jago. Of course, I didn't know there had been so many name changes on the 'Inner' Circle Line. I do like the sound of 'Aldersgate' as opposed to Barbican....
After all the frazzling going on, I think Jago deserves a cup of tea and a massage. But if I may? I think it would be a good idea if Jago and Geoff did a video together to sort Wikipedia out once and for all. I mean, I'm hard of hearing, but even I can tell the two don't have the same voice. Looking forward to seeing more videos on name changes. Fascinating stuff.
@jagohazzard, when you finally get round to doing a series on stations featured by Betjeman (Junction Rd, Ruislip Gardens etc), you can point out that in 'Monody on the Death of Aldersgate Street Station', he mentions the train puffing from Moorgate Street, which is what that station would have been called when his father travelled from there.
Yes for video on name changes, and discontinued lines(name changes etc). And another one on different engines maybe ? Well done on the research for this one too !
8:45 Trouble is, two tube stations serve Paddington mainline terminus. So you must either have a terminus whose tube station has a different name, or two different tube stations with the same name. Decisions, decisions, ...
There are a number of issues with Paddington Praed Street beyond the name. In particular the accessibility of the connection to the main station is poor requiring 2 or 3 flights to stairs to go up and down. The whole flow pattern in the station has been reversed recently which is disorientating to long term users.
It seems strange that existing stations have to change their names so as not to be confused with new stations. It's not like the 19th century when we were dealing with different companies, it's all one London Transport isn't is? So why didn't they just give the new station a name which people would not confuse with the existing stations? It's as if the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. One station name you missed Jago. In 70 CE the original Roman station, (the remains of which you can still see outside today's Tower Hill station), was called "Fort of Londinium".It appears on pre-Norman Conquest maps before they merged with the Anglo Saxon London and South East. (Actually, there was an aggressive take over). Londoners gave it the thumbs down because as we all know, the Romans only built in straight lines which meant that the next stop was Basilica, later changed to Basilica, Temple and Market Place. It was later further shortened to Basilica and Market Place.
A veritable trove of lovely facts dates stories and decisions regarding the lovable rogue ive been using daily for 38 years now , btw im 47 , my mum first allowed me to walk from school on Summer term break down past eagle pond to Snaresbrook station and travel three stops to Stratford to arrive at her office , 30p the fare and on old stock central line trains … in those days we still had Blake Hall on central line , thanks for the video bud
As you said, Charing Cross was named Charing Cross (Embankment) between 1974 and 1976. In fact, this was always intended to be a short-term measure. When the Fleet Line (later the Jubilee Line) was being built, the plan was to rename both Strand (Northern Line) and Trafalgar Square (Bakerloo Line) to Charing Cross, and to rename Charing Cross to Embankment. The temporary name Charing Cross (Embankment) was a transitional measure, intended to get the public used to the new name. At lease, that's how I remember it.
Wasn't there a period when the station was named Charing Cross Embankment, without the brackets? I seem to remember this but perhaps I've just got confused with the name changes...
Haha! I could think of worse people to be mistaken for. But it’s clear you’re not one and the same. You have very different voices and since Geoff appears in at least almost all his videos, his appearance is also well known. I follow both of you. Really enjoy both of your work too.
Well this video went into nerd overdrive 🤓 Excellent stuff and nicely summarised as ever 👍 Funny how rebranding and renaming are things one might think of as a modern phenomena, but evidently not 🤔 Politics and all that, eh? 🤷🏻♂️ Splendid stuff as ever Jago 👍🍻🍀
Okay, now that my head has stopped spinning from all the station name changes I must say thank you Jago for keeping us all informed about this. Now I must either suggest that the Underground either get revolving name signs for their stations or either stop playing the shell game. You know, the one involving one pea and three shells. Where you win if you can guess under which shell the pea is. In the Underground's game only the sign painters win! Now if you will excuse me I need to retire to bed. As my head is again spinning around from this subject.
Interesting to hear that Aldersgate became Barbican in 1968. I was watching Doctor Who "The Web of Fear" recently which aired early in 1968 and it is still called Aldersgate. It must have changed very shortly afterwards.
Bear in mind lead-times from writing, to recording, to editing, to approval, to broadcast. TV shows often have a 6-9 month lead time in total. The name change may we’ll have just happened, or been just about to happen, when the actual broadcast occurred.
Errrr........ Baker Street was the first station opened, but surely there were at least two stations opened on opening day? Or was Baker Street opened just to let people in for a look around, or to buy tickets for when the next station opened in the future? St James Park is the correct spelling, as St James never owned it, and Goldhawk Road was left off the list.
Berlin has also had a number of station renamings on its underground. For example, Kreuzberg was renamed Platz der Luftbrucke in memory of the airlift (you can still see the original name on the wall). Also the original Unter dem Linden S bahn station is now called Brandenburger Tor (there is a brand new Unter den Linden station on the new Hauptbahnhof to Alexanderplatz U5 line).
James' and James's are both pronounced Jameses. The s' apostrophe is standard English grammar to avoid adding the possessive s to personal names that end in s.
James Butler. You can't fool me there are no Roundels with St.Jameses Park on them !! Incidentally how do you pronounce your Christian name ?!!. "I hate you Butler " Oi,you keep out of this Blakey !!
Yeah, it's purely for visual aestetics, avoiding things like a triple S if something already ending with a double S possesses something: "Jess's car", for example. As another James myself, I prefer to drop the extra S: "St James' Park" over "St. James's Park". Which brings up another thing: a rule I'd learnt was that in British English abbreviations don't end with a full stop if the abbreviation ends with the same letter as the full word, with "St." for "Street" and "St" for "Saint" being the canonical example of the distinction. That said, it was well into my adult life that I first encountered this, and observance seems to be all over the place, so it's not too surprising that this contradicts that. I wonder if it might be something to do with the name often being rendered in all-caps; perhaps the dot is better for legibility.
@@TheJamesM St for saint is a contraction as the letters a, i and n have been omitted from the word, whilst St. for street is an abbreviation as the rest of the word after the 2nd letter have been cut off.
The Tube history is very interesting, especially when you look at lost, moved, and renamed stations. At one of the stations there was a door that should have been closed, but workers were coming and going, and beyond it was an old station platform that didn't look like it had been used for many years. Can't remember where it was though.
When you consider the cost implications of station name changes, it's a complete waste of valuable funds which could be better served on rolling stock and/or station facilities. Thanks for another enjoyable video👍
Re-branding rolling stock whenever there is a franchise change is also a waste of money. Not just exteriors, but the interiors too - e.g. what happened to all the Virgin Trains antimacassars that adorned First Class? They were ripped out and replaced by LNER antimacassars. Total waste.
@@juliansadler6263 i spend a lot of time outside the UK. i am supposing it is "waits". i have heard of Thales which i believe sounds like "tal iss". (and yes i have heard of "prayed" street.)
One certain thing in life is change (alongside death and taxes). I can't remember how many names I've been called, some I couldn't possibly repeat on your channel :) Thanks as always for a great presentation. Cheerio ...
It would make sense to have different names for the Paddington stations. The one built by the Met should stay as Paddington as it's effectively part of the main station, but then renaming the other lines would cause confusion to people wanting the mainline station. Perhaps Paddington (Praed Street) once more? Praed Street (Paddington)? Paddington Below Ground? Paddington Not Built By Brunel? Windsor Gardens? That would be a nice in-joke for fans of the bear and given that the station would not be that near Windsor Gardens would also honour the fine British tradition of naming railway stations after places where they aren't located. ... I should write to TfL.
Especially if you include British Rail's decision, in 1969, to drop the word "Halt" from all stations ending in that. Although I notice that Great Western Railways (the current one) seems to have reinstated Coombe Junction Halt as the official name, according to their website.
@@olly5764 I think you're right there. I recall when Paytrains were introduced in East Anglia in 1967, the Norwich Division of British Rail referred to the stations being turned into "unstaffed halts" even in towns like Saxmundham. The same thing happened in the West Riding, but I don't recall when.
Grammar pedant here! To write the possessive form of nouns ending in s, x, or z, an apostrophe - only - is added. Writing is a mere convention indicating, more or less, the pronunciation of a word. The possessive (& the plural) is in reality formed by adding one of the sounds 's', 'z', or 'iz', which are reflected, more or less, in the spelling. You're welcome.
That was funny! I got a notification for this video on my mobile. Because the title came truncated and it was a bit early in the morning for my brain to be fully operational, I read "Every Station Named Chang"... WTH?
Years ago, when I worked on the 53s and we were turned short, I couldn't believe they could fit GREAT PORTLAND STREET STN on the blind (obviously pre TFL minimum information possible days). As for pedant's corner, it HAS to be St James' Park! Merit due to you Jago for the frequent use of 'termini' - maybe you should do a video about train stations associated with stadiums? Err, sorry, I mean stadia.
As a pedant myself, I would say it has to be St James's Park. If there were a St Jame, and then another St Jame, there would be two St James, and their park would be St James' [plural possessive] Park. But there was just one St James, and his park must be called St James's [singular possessive] Park. It's like St Thomas's Hospital - or "St Thomas' Hospital" as they put on the sign outside. I've never heard of even one St Thoma, but there must have been at least two St Thomas for them to have a hospital (St Thomas') named after them!
Imagine people are getting paid just to rethink names over and over. And they do it until they retire, so new guy has to be hired and rethink naming. BTW I never been to England, wish to come one day (London not necessarily being the most interesting location to me). Cheers from Poland, you legend!
I think you need to do a crossover with Geoff Marshall to prove you're not the same person! 😂
Then he'd have to reveal his face. Currently, he's like Charlie from Charlie's Angels ... but without the angels. I'm not sure it would be appropriate to reveal his identity.
@@brian9731 He could wear a paper bag with "Jago" written on it?
Then Jago will change his name
@@brian9731 but Jago might have angels, we may never know
Jago could hold the camera so we may not see his face...only his voice
But what if Jago Hazzard… _IS…_ Geoff Marshall? What if he’s trying to lead us down the garden path by telling us he _isn’t?_
*CUE VSAUCE MUSIC*
What if I told you that neither of them is Geoff Marshall or Jago Hazzard?
Maybe Jago is actually Vicki Pipe...
@@visionsofhere3745 What if Viki Pipe is Jago in drag ?
Nah,not possible. Nobody could imitate a lady that well.
And hidden in there somewhere Viki is a compliment !!
Oh come on Marshall! I know that's you, using three accounts to throw us off the scent!
But maybe it is Geoff Marshall using the text written by Vicky Pipe? Vicky has a way wickeder sense of humor than that sweet innocent and adorable exterior promises.
For what it's worth, the bit at 0:10 is probably more Google's fault than Wikipedia's. As I recall, the feature where Google responds to a query with a little box containing their best guess at an answer is called Google Knowledge Graph, which is generated programmatically from some machine analysis of their enormous databases. It can be a convenient feature, but it has come under criticism for sometimes giving misleading or outright false information (as in this instance), and also for depriving the sites it lifts the data from of visitors.
Thanks for explaining that! I've always wondered why the results in that box can be misleading, especially if you don't click through and read the original page.
Indeed. The Wikipedia article that is précised at 0:10 contains absolutely no reference to Jago, and there is no evidence whatsoever that Wikipedia thinks Jago is Geoff, or indeed has ever heard of Jago Hazzard. The link does suggest that Google thinks that Wikipedia thinks that Jago is Geoff, but hey Google is just a set of surprisingly unintelligent algorithms.
@@chriswood5205 As someone once said, we were once afraid that the machines would develop intelligence and take over the world. The problem is that we've given the world to the machines when they're still as dumb as a box of rocks.
@@Tevildo that reminds me of the “we tricked sand into thinking” thing, and my brain wants to mash them together. Something like “dumb as a box of rocks we tricked into thinking”
@@kaitlyn__L Excellent _bon mot._ Is "petrocracy" attested? [checks] Yes, but it refers to oil, not rocks themselves. That's disappointing.
I’d certainly be interested in a series like this
Yes please!
In the state of Kentucky in the United States of America the government sent workers out all over the country in 1868 to work on more accurate maps and names of towns and areas all over the United States. During the American Civil War bad maps and unknown names of areas were blamed for many lost battles and bad communications errors. A valley in eastern Kentucky one of these workers came too was only populated by my great great grandmother Edith & Elmer Coomer and their kids. He stayed two days with those grandparents walking and maping the valley. The map maker wrote down Edithville on the map where the house was and named the valley Elmers Hallow. Those became Eddsville & Elm Valley over time. Then Eville and M Valley. Then a dam was built to make electricity and both disappeared under Kentucky's now second largest lake in 1974. Funny how names of places change and sometimes disappear.
I’m here for Geoff’s continuing series of impressions - he’s been consistent with this one for a while now 🤔
Who's Geoff Marshall? Didn't he do a quiz or something once on youtube during the Great Plague?
@@falafel4618 I think he lives on the Ilse of Wight...
@@dwegmull hardly - he’s never been there 😉
I'm here for Geoff's 'The Least Used Fish and Chip Shop in Each County' and 'All the Fish and Chip Shops', like All the Stations. Come to a fish and chip shop, tick, enter, a good ol' plaice and chips, then move on.
"The next stop is St. James Park, and oh boy, this is one for the pedants."
Hang on, isn't that why most of us are here?
I believe St James's Park is in Newcastle upon Tyne, and St James' park is in Exeter.
My understanding is that James's is the correct possessive spelling of something belonging to James. However, in formal English, the second "s" is not applied to Biblical or Classical names. So you would say Jesus' disciples. Therefore St. James' would be correct if you see St. James as Classical or Biblical. It seems to be open to interpretation, which might explain the differences between London, Newcastle, and Exeter. But at the end of the day, as Jago hinted, it only matters to pedants. What is annoying though, is when people incorrectly apply the possessive apostrophe to plurals! e.g. "Car's for sale" which makes me think car's what?
One of the weirdest rules in the Associated Press Style Guide is about the possessive of singular nouns ending in S. It states that apostrophe-S is correct _unless_ the noun ends in a double S _and_ the next word in the sentence begins with S. So "boss's boss" is fine, but "boss's secretary" is just too many Ses in a row, so it has to be "boss' secretary".
Me, despite having not been to London once let alone interacted with the London Underground, watching videos about the London Underground:
Hm, Interesting
You would be most welcome to visit any time you like and experience the eery awkwardness of seating layouts purposely designed to make people stare at each other who by their nature do everything they can to avoid eye contact, further exasperated by the LU being a Covid incubator.
As long as you're not from a Red country you won't have to pay two thousand two hundred and twenty five Great British Pounds, to stay in our wonderful little hotels/covid prisons.
@@binarysignals9593 Hmm..even more interesting !!
Jago's tales of the city's antique toy train are more interesting than the London that surrounds it, in many cases. Stations evocatively named after brooks, hills, dales and greens tend to hide their origins under 10ft of concrete. And Blackfriars is notably short on Dominicans.
@@borderlands6606
Not short a a good pub called...
The Blackfriars !!
@@binarysignals9593 Ah I see, I've haven't been to Europe before so it would be nice to check it out
Yes, would love a series of name change videos. It would be nice to see discontinued services thrown in as well for whenever they have name changes for stations. Perhaps that discontinued services could also have a number of notable stations that have closed down.
"Next up is Paddington, which was originally called..." Was so hoping you would say "originally called Paddington Bear" just to wind up non-British viewers who might not realise you were kidding them.
Also, in a recent video you talked about a massive steam engine and commented that you might make a video about it. Am adding my vote for yes to the others who said to do it in the comments about that video. Just make it already!
8:42 Missed opportunity to say "In 1948 it became Paddington bare".
It’s already made - just awaiting its slot in the schedule...
@@JagoHazzard I hope you pointed out it supposedly burnt more coal per mile than it could haul
Pete Smith.
Your comment is worth more than a mere "like".
Incidentally that engine was called a decopod( I think).
Let's hope Mr. Hazzard doesn't forget.
@@highpath4776 Is that really true?
Knowing High Path from previous form it undoubtedly is !!
Love this channel and I live in the US. Hopefully covid will chill out and I can use my extensive knowledge of the tube line in the UK
Crystal S
"Off the tube line"
You're going to be in for a shock as we have more than one !!
Or even "of"
@@simonwinter8839 And there are several outside of London!
@@cooperised Faster response than a Metropolitan fast train !!
yeah there are lots more systems than this too :D
Your uncertain tale gave me an uncertain smile. Loved the "The The" reference, definitely.
three times of "The" appeared
Not sure when they dropped the The from Monument but I'm pretty sure it was done with an Uncertain smile!!
0:28 "All the stations". You ARE Geoff Marshall!
Bonus points for the The The reference.
I’m so old I can remember riding on the Circle Line in red-painted (later plain aluminium) R-Class stock with their distinctive flared edges. Quite the opposite of today’s stock with it’s tucked-in lower edges. I read somewhere that it was designed to make people stand back from the platform edge.
Thinking hard I can even remember the sound and smell of that stock!
All that's needed now is for Jay Foreman to put all that to music 🎶
Was thinking the same thing. It could be a half hour long song for the whole underground!
Worked on london underground/ tfl for 34 years , learned more history in a month watching these videos. TFL gift horse mouth , employ, Jag now, got croonies earning shed loads more for less input. Jag I salute you
Another fascinating video, thanks Geoff ;)
I'd add that James' and James's are pronounced the same, they're different way of doing the possessive for a word that ends in s
Even the experts only have style guides not hard rules .... the Park is St James's, but other parks named after the same St James are variously St James's, St James', St James, ....
no, St James's can be pronounced '...zuh-zuh' if you like
@@clockwork9827 "St. James' " can be pronounced either /djeɪmz/ or /djeɪmz.əz/
I'm afraid when I got the "sheer luck" pun I called you a very rude word. You sir, are shameless 🤣🤣🤣
You'll have to explain - my knowledge of kids tv since TISWAS is sadly lacking..!
@@falafel4618 187 North Gower Street played 221B Baker Street in BBC's "Sherlock".
(No, that's not a kids' show.
Yes, that's the joke.)
I think the line should be renamed the Banjo Line. Nothing to fret about though!
bloody hell hahahaha
Of course we want a series on name changes, great stuff.
Well it is the way you tell it.😁👍
Thanks!
It was surprisingly interesting and certainly didn't feel too long 😊 More like this would be intetreseting
yes pls to a whole series on name changes! I never tire of your videos Jago they are always bloody good and bloody funny
Love your videos, Geoff!
Part of me wishes I could be be a fly on the wall listening to the inane committee conversations by the powers-that-be about whether to include the-THE, whether to drop the ROAD, or enduring the advocate for adding extra babble for a nearby wants-to-be-up-and-coming-area. The other part of me knows I'd turn into the Hulk instead and smash the committee room.
Seriously, you would not as you would be driven mad. I have been to those sort of meetings in other contexts, and more time can get spent discussing those sort of things, with more passion than anything else.
It seems they actually went around getting rid of the word Road and Street from there station names, which makes it feel cleaner and easier. Having a THE at monument was always silly, so it's good that went
For clarity on the pronunciation of 'Praed Street' see the 101ers song 'Rabies (From The Dogs of Love) during which you will hear the Praed Street Clinic mentioned. Joe Strummer's dulcet tones will no doubt provide total and complete clarity on the pronunciation situation. Yes.
Like Raid with a P on the front.
The Dr Who story The Web of Fear set in the London Underground of 1975 though made in 1968 shows Barbican as Aldersgate (and has no Victoria Line) on its tube map...
The Euston Street/Euston subway is happening, that's partly what the massive building works next to Euston Station is.
Yep all because of HS2
Ha! I always knew you weren’t Geoff! Great video again Vicky!
Geoff Marshall. LOL!
Internal LU documents like timetables do differentiate the Paddington Sub-Surface stations into Paddington (Cir) and Paddington (Sub). The Sub being short for suburban and the Cir being short for Circle.
Paddington Sub is a good name for the Praed Street and Bakerloo stations. The H&C (etc) station could then become Paddington Dom, to reflect its elevated status.
6:35, I better get the ball rolling then. St. James's Park is the one and only correct version.
Au contraire, monsieur. St. James' is the only correct way. As a Jones, my possessive only has one 's'. The extra 's' is used only by the ill-educated and grocers.
So yes, we shall be requiring a series of this kind on every tube line....please.😊
Imagine being a chap named Mark Lane and just having your own underground station for a while.
Imagine being a bear called Paddington................
He's got an imaginary friend called Minories.
Better, Arnold Lane. and if it was on the Vicky Line, the station pictagram would washing lines with women's clothes.
Thank you have just answered a query of mine. When working in London in 1974 I caught the tube to haring Cross and walked up/down Vickers Lane. Many years later I returned and it was called Embankment…I was discombobulated…I am no longer!
Jago, you could make a video about an ant crawling over your sandwich and it would be interesting. Your videos are little vignette gems always eagerly anticipated.
'an ant crawling over your sandwich'...it sounds a bit like Milton Keynes!
@@falafel4618 - I'm Australian, so I had to do a quick lookup on Milton Keynes. It looks very attractive with its parks and gardens. Somewhere to get an ant crawling on your sandwich.
Now a map of the Underground that has each station marked with 'all the names it has been known as over the years' would be rather an unwieldy tome but entertaining none the less.
That said, is would also like to see them issue a tube map in the style of Beck's original to celebrate the anniversary of CTY's mustache.
I’ve got one of those somewhere
@@GWJUK To the publishers and don't spare the horses squire!
The London Underground: A Diagrammatic History. It's out of print, but does exactly this, with dates. It also shows some name changes Jago missed, like Kensington (High Street), and variations on White City!
@@nanoamp yes it’s a fold out map about the size of a dinner table- a few years old so probably a wee bit out of date
@@nanoamp Ebay here I come , thank you for the heads up.
As a Swedish London tube junkie living in Stockholm I would look forward to getting more "fixes" in a series on the various station name changes over the years.
I’m currently working on one for the Central Line.
@@JagoHazzard Excellent, Jago. Looking forward to seeing it.
Haha, I love your funny comments, they are brilliant. Keep up your fantastic work. I love watching them.
Loved the dig at Wiki....always good for the 'official' version of things......
When the Metropolitan Railway extended to Liverpool Street, the terminal had just opened and people were probably not used to it yet. And yes, Bishopsgate was a freight station at this point, but it was the passenger terminal for 35 years, before the line extended to Liverpool Street. So I think they chose the name to show that it was the terminal of the same line, despite it being a completely different station.
It's amazing how you can condense so much research potential into such a concise clear video without going down too many interesting rabbit holes. Geoff did a really nice video on mapping Paddington alone. And don't get started on punctuaionnnarrrrrggh.
Thanks for yet another very interesting and well produced video. Your videos are always high points in the week and I look forward to the next one eagerly.
Thanks Geoff. I'm glad you find Wikipedia so useful too. (Smart move running two channels by the way.)
At least three surely
Many moons back I lived opposite Ladbroke Grove tube station. Never realised it had so many names changes. Noisy fun happy place. But happier to have emigrated to Greenwich.
I still think that Jago is probably a Diamond Geezer with a popular blog of the same name.
Not just me who has suspected this for a while now. Thanks Oia!
That would explain why there's no Jago Hazzard on Twitter.
I’m thinking ask Diamond on his page. I’m sure we will get a blog on the answer if there is enough comments
Yes, I thought it was going to be a quick video too, but as always there were lots of extra factual nuggets to dig out. Enlightening as always. I do agree Paddington is confusing - it would have been a shock to people coming up the Circle/District and thinking from the 1960s tube map they could seamlessly change on to the Met/H&C but actually having to exit and walk along the mainline platforms! "Should have gone to Edgware Road..." At other times the map has distinguished more successfully between the two stations at Paddington, which have also switched in relative importance and service levels. 30 years ago to go eastbound it was best to go to Praed Street (double the trains); now, it's Bishops Road (all through services). Hammersmith is another place where the two unconnected stations caught me out long ago.
Totally fascinating! Thanks Jago. Of course, I didn't know there had been so many name changes on the 'Inner' Circle Line. I do like the sound of 'Aldersgate' as opposed to Barbican....
After all the frazzling going on, I think Jago deserves a cup of tea and a massage. But if I may? I think it would be a good idea if Jago and Geoff did a video together to sort Wikipedia out once and for all. I mean, I'm hard of hearing, but even I can tell the two don't have the same voice. Looking forward to seeing more videos on name changes. Fascinating stuff.
Excellent cut. Jacob. More like this please
@jagohazzard, when you finally get round to doing a series on stations featured by Betjeman (Junction Rd, Ruislip Gardens etc), you can point out that in 'Monody on the Death of Aldersgate Street Station', he mentions the train puffing from Moorgate Street, which is what that station would have been called when his father travelled from there.
Nice one Geoff ;)
Yes for video on name changes, and discontinued lines(name changes etc). And another one on different engines maybe ?
Well done on the research for this one too !
8:45 Trouble is, two tube stations serve Paddington mainline terminus. So you must either have a terminus whose tube station has a different name, or two different tube stations with the same name. Decisions, decisions, ...
Tack the relevant cardinal direction on the end of the name each of the tube stations. Problem solved.
Rename the mainline station and throw the underground into a tizzy.
There are a number of issues with Paddington Praed Street beyond the name. In particular the accessibility of the connection to the main station is poor requiring 2 or 3 flights to stairs to go up and down. The whole flow pattern in the station has been reversed recently which is disorientating to long term users.
It seems strange that existing stations have to change their names so as not to be confused with new stations. It's not like the 19th century when we were dealing with different companies, it's all one London Transport isn't is? So why didn't they just give the new station a name which people would not confuse with the existing stations? It's as if the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
One station name you missed Jago. In 70 CE the original Roman station, (the remains of which you can still see outside today's Tower Hill station), was called "Fort of Londinium".It appears on pre-Norman Conquest maps before they merged with the Anglo Saxon London and South East. (Actually, there was an aggressive take over). Londoners gave it the thumbs down because as we all know, the Romans only built in straight lines which meant that the next stop was Basilica, later changed to Basilica, Temple and Market Place. It was later further shortened to Basilica and Market Place.
A veritable trove of lovely facts dates stories and decisions regarding the lovable rogue ive been using daily for 38 years now , btw im 47 , my mum first allowed me to walk from school on Summer term break down past eagle pond to Snaresbrook station and travel three stops to Stratford to arrive at her office , 30p the fare and on old stock central line trains … in those days we still had Blake Hall on central line , thanks for the video bud
You got me reaching for my set of 10 reproduction Underground maps from the LT Museum!
Circle line more resembles a lasso rope now but doubt it would ever be called that.
As you said, Charing Cross was named Charing Cross (Embankment) between 1974 and 1976. In fact, this was always intended to be a short-term measure. When the Fleet Line (later the Jubilee Line) was being built, the plan was to rename both Strand (Northern Line) and Trafalgar Square (Bakerloo Line) to Charing Cross, and to rename Charing Cross to Embankment. The temporary name Charing Cross (Embankment) was a transitional measure, intended to get the public used to the new name. At lease, that's how I remember it.
Wasn't there a period when the station was named Charing Cross Embankment, without the brackets? I seem to remember this but perhaps I've just got confused with the name changes...
Monument: the single station with two names.
Paddington: two stations with the same name
"Let me know if--"
Yes.
Haha! I could think of worse people to be mistaken for. But it’s clear you’re not one and the same. You have very different voices and since Geoff appears in at least almost all his videos, his appearance is also well known. I follow both of you. Really enjoy both of your work too.
Thanks for the vid.
I believe it's google and not wiki who thinks you're Geoff.
Well this video went into nerd overdrive 🤓 Excellent stuff and nicely summarised as ever 👍 Funny how rebranding and renaming are things one might think of as a modern phenomena, but evidently not 🤔 Politics and all that, eh? 🤷🏻♂️
Splendid stuff as ever Jago 👍🍻🍀
Tim Sully.
I've been called Nurd,pedant, Anorak, spinner etc..
I can't think why !!
@@simonwinter8839: haha, wear it with pride! Sounds like you accrued a full set mate 😜👍 🎖
@@timsully8958
No,still completely at a loss !!!!
That Praed Street skit was hilarious, awesome video though!
Okay, now that my head has stopped spinning from all the station name changes I must say thank you Jago for keeping us all informed about this. Now I must either suggest that the Underground either get revolving name signs for their stations or either stop playing the shell game. You know, the one involving one pea and three shells. Where you win if you can guess under which shell the pea is. In the Underground's game only the sign painters win! Now if you will excuse me I need to retire to bed. As my head is again spinning around from this subject.
Thank you for showing that footage of St. James', er, St. James's park. Bought back memories for me.
Another masterpiece, some kids programme called sheer luck or something still laughing.
Cracking work Geoff.
You've never bored me before!
Interesting to hear that Aldersgate became Barbican in 1968. I was watching Doctor Who "The Web of Fear" recently which aired early in 1968 and it is still called Aldersgate. It must have changed very shortly afterwards.
Bear in mind lead-times from writing, to recording, to editing, to approval, to broadcast. TV shows often have a 6-9 month lead time in total. The name change may we’ll have just happened, or been just about to happen, when the actual broadcast occurred.
@@kaitlyn__L Of course, but this was first screened in Feb-March 1968 so chances are it was still Aldersgate anyway.
Yes please, I enjoy this subject. You sound happier recently. I hope life is being good to you.
Errrr........ Baker Street was the first station opened, but surely there were at least two stations opened on opening day? Or was Baker Street opened just to let people in for a look around, or to buy tickets for when the next station opened in the future?
St James Park is the correct spelling, as St James never owned it, and Goldhawk Road was left off the list.
@@rjs_698 That neither changes, answers or negates the query.
Brilliant video Geoffgo! Next up, The Least Used former Station Names in London, perhaps...? lol....
Nice work , as usual , Jago
Thanks for the entertainment Jago. You made my sad morning commute happier.
Berlin has also had a number of station renamings on its underground. For example, Kreuzberg was renamed Platz der Luftbrucke in memory of the airlift (you can still see the original name on the wall). Also the original Unter dem Linden S bahn station is now called Brandenburger Tor (there is a brand new Unter den Linden station on the new Hauptbahnhof to Alexanderplatz U5 line).
James' and James's are both pronounced Jameses. The s' apostrophe is standard English grammar to avoid adding the possessive s to personal names that end in s.
Ya beat me...
James Butler.
You can't fool me there are no Roundels with St.Jameses Park on them !!
Incidentally how do you pronounce your Christian name ?!!.
"I hate you Butler "
Oi,you keep out of this Blakey !!
Yeah, it's purely for visual aestetics, avoiding things like a triple S if something already ending with a double S possesses something: "Jess's car", for example. As another James myself, I prefer to drop the extra S: "St James' Park" over "St. James's Park".
Which brings up another thing: a rule I'd learnt was that in British English abbreviations don't end with a full stop if the abbreviation ends with the same letter as the full word, with "St." for "Street" and "St" for "Saint" being the canonical example of the distinction. That said, it was well into my adult life that I first encountered this, and observance seems to be all over the place, so it's not too surprising that this contradicts that. I wonder if it might be something to do with the name often being rendered in all-caps; perhaps the dot is better for legibility.
@@TheJamesM St for saint is a contraction as the letters a, i and n have been omitted from the word, whilst St. for street is an abbreviation as the rest of the word after the 2nd letter have been cut off.
Bless...
The Tube history is very interesting, especially when you look at lost, moved, and renamed stations. At one of the stations there was a door that should have been closed, but workers were coming and going, and beyond it was an old station platform that didn't look like it had been used for many years. Can't remember where it was though.
When you consider the cost implications of station name changes, it's a complete waste of valuable funds which could be better served on rolling stock and/or station facilities.
Thanks for another enjoyable video👍
Re-branding rolling stock whenever there is a franchise change is also a waste of money. Not just exteriors, but the interiors too - e.g. what happened to all the Virgin Trains antimacassars that adorned First Class? They were ripped out and replaced by LNER antimacassars. Total waste.
It's always nice to hear Holbirn correctly pronounced, as you do, and your first pronunciation of Praed Street is the correct one.
I love this channel so much. So much.
I was site clerk on the Wates development in 2001-2002. Quite definitely pronounced 'prayed' Street.
yes but how do you pronounce Wates? (or did you mean "pray-ed"?
@@fumthings Wates Construction Wates Residential Wates Interiors Wates Rail never heard of them have you? Really?
@@juliansadler6263 i spend a lot of time outside the UK. i am supposing it is "waits". i have heard of Thales which i believe sounds like "tal iss". (and yes i have heard of "prayed" street.)
One certain thing in life is change (alongside death and taxes). I can't remember how many names I've been called, some I couldn't possibly repeat on your channel :) Thanks as always for a great presentation. Cheerio ...
It would make sense to have different names for the Paddington stations. The one built by the Met should stay as Paddington as it's effectively part of the main station, but then renaming the other lines would cause confusion to people wanting the mainline station. Perhaps Paddington (Praed Street) once more? Praed Street (Paddington)? Paddington Below Ground? Paddington Not Built By Brunel? Windsor Gardens? That would be a nice in-joke for fans of the bear and given that the station would not be that near Windsor Gardens would also honour the fine British tradition of naming railway stations after places where they aren't located. ... I should write to TfL.
I think having a unified name makes sense. Praed Street means nothing to people who do not know the area.
How to represent Paddington on the Tube map seems to have been a thorny problem almost from the beginning. The representation has changed many times.
An eleven minute video!
I feel like I just watched a mini Ben-Hur lol
Jago the day you announce that you’re actually Geoff Marshall will be the day I die with a sense of mass confusion
"I'm off to bed!" Sleep wll Jago, interesting video, the changes to station names (UK wide not just on the Underground) interests me greatly.
Especially if you include British Rail's decision, in 1969, to drop the word "Halt" from all stations ending in that. Although I notice that Great Western Railways (the current one) seems to have reinstated Coombe Junction Halt as the official name, according to their website.
@@Clivestravelandtrains I think that was partly because unstaffed stations blurred the difference between what was a station and what was a halt.
@@olly5764 I think you're right there. I recall when Paytrains were introduced in East Anglia in 1967, the Norwich Division of British Rail referred to the stations being turned into "unstaffed halts" even in towns like Saxmundham. The same thing happened in the West Riding, but I don't recall when.
Grammar pedant here! To write the possessive form of nouns ending in s, x, or z, an apostrophe - only - is added. Writing is a mere convention indicating, more or less, the pronunciation of a word. The possessive (& the plural) is in reality formed by adding one of the sounds 's', 'z', or 'iz', which are reflected, more or less, in the spelling. You're welcome.
A series of namechanges on the Tube ? Yes please ! 🤗
That was funny! I got a notification for this video on my mobile. Because the title came truncated and it was a bit early in the morning for my brain to be fully operational, I read "Every Station Named Chang"... WTH?
We're not sure that we're interested until you make a video. And then we are.
It all makes sense now jago is Geoff and Geoff is jago
Years ago, when I worked on the 53s and we were turned short, I couldn't believe they could fit GREAT PORTLAND STREET STN on the blind (obviously pre TFL minimum information possible days). As for pedant's corner, it HAS to be St James' Park! Merit due to you Jago for the frequent use of 'termini' - maybe you should do a video about train stations associated with stadiums? Err, sorry, I mean stadia.
As a pedant myself, I would say it has to be St James's Park.
If there were a St Jame, and then another St Jame, there would be two St James, and their park would be St James' [plural possessive] Park.
But there was just one St James, and his park must be called St James's [singular possessive] Park.
It's like St Thomas's Hospital - or "St Thomas' Hospital" as they put on the sign outside. I've never heard of even one St Thoma, but there must have been at least two St Thomas for them to have a hospital (St Thomas') named after them!
This video has made me want to listen to Jay Foreman's "Every Tube Station Song"
I am enjoying how the comments have every single permutation of “I’m a grammar expert, and it’s (this way)” WRT the apostrophes.
The The
A real 'Mindbomb' from Jago.
Imagine people are getting paid just to rethink names over and over. And they do it until they retire, so new guy has to be hired and rethink naming.
BTW I never been to England, wish to come one day (London not necessarily being the most interesting location to me).
Cheers from Poland, you legend!
England is not far from Poland. Plenty of places in london you could feel at home in, maybe North Pole, near Acton.