I just can't get over my head that if spider people can't interfere with other universes of spider people because of the web (if that's how it is called) may collapse their universe,how come the spider society exists? It's in another universe gathering many other spider people from many other spider-verses and yet the universe didn't collapse?
I didn't like him when he first showed up but when I heard the "I don't believe in comedy!....Joking!" line I lost it and he became my favorite of the new spider-men
I don't think Gwen and Hobie actually had a romantic relationship at all, but since Gwen couldn't go home and she and Hobie got along well enough and so he extended the invitation to his place for her to crash. Just a good friend helping out. Miles not knowing all the information who also has a huge crush on Gwen gets the wrong idea, which I think is also conveyed to the audience as the movie takes place from his perspective. I could be wrong, but that was my interpretation.
@@MisterJokestarthat actually makes sense, i mean she days she crash3d there everynow and then, she is wearing his shoes and he reminds her of her toothbrush. To most of us that screams "yeah, they foking" but honestly seems like Hobbie is just a chill dude and a good friend to his friends and Gwen being alone and without a home seems like the kind of help a good friend would give, also he menstions that she tales about miles A LOT so theres that
The "anyone can be Spider-Man" is exactly why Stan Lee originally gave Spider-Man a full-cover mask and suit. That's one of the primary lessons of Spider-Man, so it's likely to be correct.
It was actually not something they did on purpose, but Stan Lee realized how the fact that he was covered meant anyone could be spiderman and added that to the character It's still an amazing thing and I really like how it became such a prevalent part of his character
@guyWSonicpicture Thank you for actually knowing what Stan said So many people misquote that interview. Like Stan already gets a lotta unnecessary praise for stuff he didn't do, let's not add this to being one of em
Stan Lee AND Steve ditko. Steve ditko is the one who gave Spiderman a mask to cover his face. It wasn't Lee's idea. Both ditko and Lee contributed a lot to SpiderMan character but it was sad how no one remembers Steve ditko. He literally died alone in his apartment and only to be found 2 days later by police... And to this day, people still barely remember him despite being the creator of the most iconic superhero of all time.
I thought Peter B Parkers arc was great. He didn't get sidelined, he didn't get belittled or anything. He got over his mental health issues, reconciled with MJ and actually got a kid with her. We can see, that their relationship works great and he loves their kid dearly. Also he is really proud of Miles and takes every opportunity to tell the other spiderpeople, that he himself was Miles' mentor and teacher. And he always tries to diffuse the situation, because he knows and understands what Miguel is about and why things have to be the way they are. But he also loves Miles and doesn't want the kid to get hurt.
For me, Peter B’s POV is the one I adopt the most in this Anomaly crisis. Miguel is right about many things, after all, he deeply cares for the fate of the Multiverse and he makes sure that no one ever makes the same mistakes as he did. But at the same time, Peter can’t really go against Miles because he knows him better than most people. He knows he’s not being selfish by trying to save his dad because he also wants to prove a point. Spider-Man CAN do both and, even if he fails, trying is worth the risk. I’ll probably never pick a definitive side in this conflict, but I’m definitely rooting for Spider-Man.
@@luigiboyinblu Your cruel Miles doesn't deserves to suffer even more he's alright lost his uncle once and doesn't have to go through that pain again on losing his dad😡 too even if he's the Anomaly he can't just stand my and let the people die or suffer cause his dad's death but he's placing his life on the line too helping other in those in need Miguel is wrong to ever call him a mistake if anyone is a mistake it's O'hara and the rest of the spider gang no one can define their fate not miles he wants to save his father and proves to everyone that's he the one and only spiderman to give the people hope and those who need.
@@rjabanador465 You realize that by saving his dad there’s a high chance that his universe might collapse along with multiple others right? That’s the whole point of the stakes of the movie, there’s a possibility that Miles’ success backfires tremendously and that’s why Miguel is trying to stop him. Sure, he’s been really harsh on Miles and that’s not excusable, but there’s a reason why most Spider-People don’t turn against him, because he’s right in multiple degrees. You’re also right in that Miles doesn’t deserve more suffering, just like most Spider-People don’t either, that’s why I obviously understand Miles as well. Both of them are right and wrong at the same time for me.
@@luigiboyinblumaybe Miguel isn't right about what's causing the universes to collapse, matpat theorised that it's because of multiple dimensional beings existing in the same universe that's causing them to collapse.
Like how every avengers movie’s climax is just taking on an army of cannon fodder? Avengers: Aliens Age of Ultron: Robots Infinty War: Aliens again Endgame: Aliens again again
100% agree. Superhero fatigue isn't a thing. The oldest surviving story, The Epic of Gilgamesh, is about humans who are super. What people are tired of is mediocre, bland movies, especially when they are connected to an extended universe. A good story is a good story no matter what is used to tell it. Whether it's a historical drama, a sci-fi, a superhero movie, or anything else. People like good movies.
Loved how Gwen’s story mirrored her father’s story. George Stacy was a cop who was trying to play by the book when it came to the legality of Spider-Woman. He turned his back on his own daughter because that’s what he was supposed to do. When Gwen felt abandoned and alone and was taken in by the Spider-Society, she gave all of herself to their cause and was playing by the book. She only wanted to go to other dimensions just to see Miles, similar to Miles only wanting to find out how to to other dimensions just to see Gwen and his friends. She felt alone and just wanted companionship. With the fear of going back home, Gwen dedicated herself to just sticking to the life that was written for her until she has the one moment of weakness where she gives into what she wants, kickstarting the whole plot. After that we see Gwen’s struggle between what she’s supposed to do and what she feels compelled to do, and by the end she comes out the other side realizing that sometimes you have to throw out the playbook and fight for what we truly want. And this development gets mirrored with George Stacy quitting his job as a cop because he values his daughter much more. Gwen’s story was such a great cautionary tale and parallel for Miles and just a great story overall. Loved how the film bookended with Gwen’s arc.
@@christiantabares6713Also, now that George Stacy is no longer a PDNY captain, this somehow means that his death is no longer a mandatory canon event, saving Gwen a lot of heartache in the process. For some reason, being a police captain is a death sentence in the Spiderverse.
One of the themes that I don’t see anyone talking about is the whole idea of our weird need to give pain meaning. This movie dared to ask a question not only I couldn’t ever have come up with, but out right consider heresy at some point of my life. "Does Peter Parker actually have to suffer to be Spider-Man?" Thing is, many of us do feel like growth only comes with pain. It helps us cope with our pain and at times there really is a lesson to be learned. But just like Miguel, we’re deeply afraid of seeing that our pain actually may have not been necessary at all. Our self image falls apparat the moment we realize that our trauma was not necessary to be better people. Miles represents the opposite. The infinite potential of us stopping to depend on our trauma to explore the world around us. What we could be if we chased after what we believe in and desire. It feels like this movie stared at my soul and asked why not have your cake and eat it too? What’s stopping you from baking two?
Peter Parker had to suffer to become Spider-Man, and Spider-Man brings suffering, but he doesn't have to suffer to keep being Spider-Man. Unlike Miles, Peter had to suffer to become someone better.
That's just poetic and very true. Spiderman has always been a very tragic character. A man who always had to choose the happiness of others over his own to bear the weight of trauma in order to be better. When you think about it, this Miles is like us who have always admired Spiderman for all the good things that he is and what he represents, and yet we see just what Holding such a titles demands of you and what it must take in order to be Spiderman. As the premise of the movie and this video is what exactly makes you a spider man? Is it the spider bite, your tragedy, or your willingness to keep going no matter what?
One of the best details in the film is that Miles wants to study physics and quantum mechanics because he wants the chance to see his Spider Friends again in another dimension. Just shows how alone Miles felt and how he needed Gwen and the other Spider People.
Initially Miles wanted to do art but he puts that dream aside just for the to be a chance he sees his friends again and they had the opportunity to see him again but didn’t
I never really understood why miles could be so mad they didn’t come if they couldn’t but this makes me understand it’s because he doesn’t understand why they wouldn’t even when told not to he would’ve done it in a heartbeat lol
@@eddiee9147i believe he dropped was due to his ties of art w his uncle which Miles was part of his death sadly to say. But yes this is a great observation esp since his parents think he’s crazy for such an abnormal idea. To back this up, look when Miles told his mom he’s Spider-Man in thé different timelinesa-Spider-Man actually was nvr around since good Miles intervened in his “canon” timeline (he wasn’t suppose to be the Spider-Man)
Miguel lost sight of what Spiderman is. Miles EMBODIES what Spiderman is. Hope. And where Miguel became paranoid by fear because of 'what if?' Miles takes the opportunity whenever there is one to help and try.
"What's important is not standing by while allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing. If you don't get that, then you don't get the first thing about being Spider-Man." - Peter Parker (Amazing Spider-Man) teaching Miguel O'Hara (Spider-Man 2099) what being Spider-Man means (Spider-Man: Edge of Time)
And Miles is the only Spider-Man in the multiverse who embodied those values. Gwen realized that it's all possible after her dad quit and then made a band to go save Miles and then save his dad, Miles is going to be the catalyst needed for the Spider-Society to remember why they wear the mask.
You say this, but in the Insomniac games Spiderman prepared to make the sacrifice Miguel did. Aunt May needed the cure, he let her die because it would save the city.
He only said that because someone important to him was in danger. A true hero makes sacrifices. Like insomniac spider-man did by letting his aunt die so he could save the whole city. However miles can't make that sacrifice when the stakes are much higher. Which is the whole multiverse. Miles is not a hero. He is just an emotional and selfish teenager. Miguel is the true hero. And the fact that he managed to become worthy of Mjölnir proves that. Which the original spider-man never managed to do.
@@JudgeHoldenUwU Miguel isn’t a hero in the context of canon events, since you literally have to let people die in order to be a “true” Spider-Man through pain and tragedy. Yes Miles could fail, he could lose his dad and fall against the Spot but at least he’ll try to save his dad and stop the Spot instead of doing nothing. Miles *is* a hero for trying, for sticking to the core values of what Spider-Man is about, saving everyone no matter what. Miguel has lost sight of what being Spider-Man really is due to losing his family. Miles will remind him and the rest of the society why they’re heroes and why they truly wear the mask. And regarding Edge of Time, what Peter told Miguel still applies to saving people in general. Even if it wasn’t MJ, he still would’ve said those words to him if it was someone else.
@@popopop984 This is different from that. She got infected and unfortunately the cure wasn’t enough for both her and the city. In the case of Jefferson, there’s still two days to prevent him from being sworn in as Captain Morales. Miles can still save him.
I actually really like Peter in the film. He is an older character who is a dad, and hecka proud of it. He wears the baby carrier with grace remember there was a time when weirdos would say a dad wearing that was awful and not masculine while at the same time complaining man never help He's chilling going around with comfy slippers and a bathrobe with no shame. I never took it as the writer trying to put him down. More like, his priority is his daughter. He is one of my favs.
True and remember he still got to be spider-man so it's like he's wearing to suits his husband and dad suit and his spidey suit. I like that he isn't wearing his spidey suit with sadness but with pride because he has to set an example for his daughter who is on her own journey to becoming spidergirl
Peter was always scared of having a kid and being Spider-Man do him wearing the suit underneath with the robe and slippers so that it worked out well. Funny how miles was a mistake but he changed Peter and Gwen’s life forever, Peter would’ve continued to fight crimes while being miserable if he never came to miles earth and met him.
Wait, people took his slippers and pink bathrobe as derogatory? When it's an amazing representation of non-toxic masculinity? Peter B is a Spider-man that doubles his responsibilities by being a dad and being dressed like a dad (if Mayday pukes or leaves snot on him, it's more practical to wash a comfy bathrobe and put another one).
I really liked how this film really emphasized Spider-Man 2099's motivation and how even though he's right about many things, he still overlooks the flaws in his own crusade to protect the multiverse and how maybe some stories aren't meant to play out as intended.
This can also apply to miles he ain’t Peter and their stories are not the same, Miguel is blinded by his past he lost his daughter twice and killed a universe he is scared of it happening again so he won’t try to look for other possibilities, I think their is more than miguel than the movie showing but we will find out cause I don’t think he’s right about everything
Keeping a secret by your own crush is the worst kind of betrayal a protagonist like Miles Morales has ever faced. At least Gwen Stacy (Spider-Gwen) has come to realizing that keeping a secret from your own crush is one of the worst kinds of sacrifice a hero from another dimension has made because he was an original anomaly. The moment Miles saids “goodbye Gwen” to her is heartbreaking enough that your friendship and your trust in others is destroyed because you have to follow the “Canon Event” rule. Now that she’s assembling her own spider team to rescue Miles and help stop the Spot, she needs to earn his trust again at first. Who is excited to see Spider-Man: Beyond the Spiderverse?
I'm surprised he didn't mention Gwen Stacy's dad breaking canon by quitting his job. It's another knock on Miguel's canon theory, but it also pushed Gwen to realize the error of her and Miguel's ways and try to help/join Miles.
Noticed that but thought that would've just put her world into danger a well. Like when Miles saved the father and created that black hole, why didnt that happen to Gwen's world
I think it's also fitting that this kid is Spiderman, because of his very name. The name Miles screams someone who wants to go the distance and see new things. Morales implies someone who faces moral and ideological struggles, yet willing to go the extra "mile" just to defy fate and the opinions of others. Miles Morales is one of the best, if not "the" best Spidemen of all time.
I like how Miguel is right,but SO IS Miles. Miguel is right to be worried about the multiverse because of what he has witnessed and what happened to him. HOWEVER. You can't expect someone in their right godforsaken mind to just go ahead and let their father die just "because it is what it is". Also I can't wait for the closing case between Gwen + Peter B and Miles after what happened to them at the train. Goodness me i love this damn movie
While Miguel is "trying" to save the universe, he is not actively trying to find different or better ways to save it. Enforcing this as the one and only way (Altho i also think "canon events" can't be changed). Perhaps there is another way that the Universe can be saved without so much sacrifice (Altho again I feel like this shits on everyone else's sacrifice and loss). This could be boiling down to: "a hero would sacrifice you to save the world, but a villain would sacrifice the world to save you."
@filthycasual3899 tbh Miguel did heavily imply during his explanation scene that he did try to find and apply other solutions, and saw other universes crash nonetheless. And he's not the only one, we know other Spiderpersons (such as Peter B) witnessed the events along with him and follow him for that reason, because he offers a way to process the grief and trauma of what was witnessed, even though in his case it goes even further because he had very personal involvement in one of the erasures - it left him extremely guilt-ridden and sca(r)red, now the guilt and fear drive him and cause a narrative stagnation shown by his extreme enforcement of the status quo through the Canon Event reasonment as well as his lashing out at Miles because from his PoV, this is an inexperienced baby who has no business doing what he is doing and who DARES say to his face he disagrees with him - thus putting his Canon Event reasonment into question, and forcing him to face his personal hang-ups in the process. Even worst, based on the post-credit from ITSV, it seems Miguel used to be more similar to Miles before he became the Most Traumatised Man in the multiverse. Imagine seeing someone about to do what you did and saying "fuck your counter-argument" when you personally witnessed the consequences. No wonder Miguel becomes so unhinged as the chase goes. Now I am not saying "Miguel is right, Miles is wrong", because both are legitimate in their stance imo (and my man Miguel badly needs a therapist). However it is certainly said in the movie that Miguel tried, tried again and failed and became very much jaded and overworked as a consequence (plus having to constantly be the Straight Man to MANY Spiderpersons' Silly Man while leading the operations and getting shit done). Which is why he does not believe in Miles and even dismisses him in a paternalistic way by calling him "kid" even before he loses his shit during the train chase.
I feel like Gwen rejected herself. In the sense that she has confined herself to the idea that she can never have what she wants when it comes to her life as Gwen Stacy. Her loneliness and the one thing that fills that void where she's happy and full of life, is Miles. She can be herself, but she still can't be whole. It's crazy how she and Miles feel so connected. I'm glad she's fighting for what she wants. "It's all possible" Even though she's separated from Miles again he still inspires her. That determination she has really shows how much she loves Miles.
I always thought gwen pity miles cause he’s younger and she’s quite more capable in the first film, but she’s genuinely impressed by his determination to do his own thing, it’s true she was giving half of herself to miles and it ended up ruining everything but she’s ready to give it her all now.
I thought the perspective of Miles leaving his community (diverse, multicultural, home), and go to a PWI for college was a really strong metaphor for the overall issue of needing to stay true to himself in the movie. The contrast between home and the world... And it also made for a really moving scene with his mom, where the advice is true for so many folks in real life, but also works in the science fiction plot as well! Super good representation and writing
This movie made the statement that i wanted to hear. We have had so many superheroes with tragic backstories that at one point i got fed up and asked, why can't we have a hero who is one because he wants to be a good person? Why are we defining our heroes by their tragedies and not their good deeds? And you know what? I'm glad this movie came out. Spiderman, to me personally, is a hero because he chooses to do good things, not because of his tragic backstory. And i hated writers for constantly heaping tragedies on him.
I like to look at it as Peter did as well but it took miles to show that their is a joy of being spider-man where miles reminded him of that. Miguel is a good man going through alot of pain in a different scale miles is just going to have to push harder to help miguel see that what he view is wrong. If miles can help Peter grow and take the leap of faith so can miguel.
That is why i don't really like No Way Home. That's what that movie falls like the takeaway is for Peter, when that's just a symptom, or a byproduct of his mission.
@@princeoftech7473I’m pretty sure the story of that was inspired by an actual guy that got doxxed and had to leave his loved ones behind so they could be safe.
It's not that Hobie is pulled in by what miles does it's that miles is truly genuine about the things he cares about Punk is all about caring and showing that even when you have to fight you do it from a place of love and compassion. Not just for yourself but for those around you that you strive to make the world a better place
A major part of Spider-man definitely is sacrifice. But it's more so self sacrifice. And that is something miles absolutely needs to learn. You can't have your cake and eat it too. And if you do get two cakes you end up with "I'm not proud" aka not giving either proper treatment.
Im gonna say it, I love that the relationship of Gwen and her father is nice, im so sick of every female main character being a dick for no reason to every male in the screen, seeing Gwen hug her father despise the difference on how they do good in the world made me so happy!
@@windghost2 yessir bob I was thinking the same thing and Miguel kind of reminds me of Sasuke with how much they’re suffering has defined their bleak outlook on life.
@@kingpinpasta2934 Miles will help Miguel see that what happened doesn't have to define him and how he's Spider-Man. He'll guide him back toward the light.
I really loved into the Spiderverse and I will never get tired of Sunflower. I really loved Across the Spiderverse, the best Superhero movie of the year for me. Imo anyone can be Spider-Man, people always say that Peter has values that he always follows which isn't always true. Sometimes Peter just wants to give up and not let things be his problem, but he can't do that and he goes and saves the day. I really love a lot of adaptions of the wall crawler
Yeah he doesn't do it because he has to its cause he choices to. That what I love About each and every spider person is that they choose to put on the mask and sacrifice their personal life for the greater good
Miles is the perfect example a random kid who looked up to spider but my guess is miles would’ve found out his uncle was the prowler and Spider-Man would’ve accidentally kill the prowler in battle leading to miles taken revenge by taking up his uncle mantle. But instead his Changed his entire faith with the help of Peter and his father speech he took that leap of faith and also change Peter life and Gwen’s. Miles is my favorite Spider-Man and I think the best version of this character.
Honestly, I was waiting for you to upload this. I'll only say this what a good Captain once said. When the mob or the press or the whole world tells you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eyes, and say no, you move. And miles did exactly that.
This movie is so good. You feel every emotion even somewhat anger at Miguel but you get why he does what he does. Every character your so immersed with throughout the film even Spot. Spot's life was taken away from him but a line that stood out what he said. "You know what I needed more holes." Paraphrasing but that's a real life issue. You don't create more holes to fill the void you feel about yourself. There's so many elements that can be discussed in this film and I'm glad so many people are dissecting and enjoying this film at the same time. 10/10 film. I'm seeing it one more time.
Nah I some of people are upset at Miguel but it just tells me your don’t understand him just like some don’t understand gwen, people are not use to complex characters in film nowadays Miguel not only lost his daughter twice he cause millions of others to get wipe out of existence cause is his desire to have a family, he sees himself in miles and is projecting that on him. Hopefully miles can change his perspective on things and let this man be at ease.
The definition that Hobie gives to being Spiderman is having “independence” or being in control of one’s destiny, which seems to be a contributing factor of his immediate sense of kinship with Miles, as they both value self-expression. Miles earlier on resents his parents constantly badgering him about their expectations for him and his suspicious absences, thinking that because he is growing up and secretly a superhero, he isn’t beholden to anyone’s rules other than his own and should be allowed to decide for himself what he wants to be regardless of others opinions. Miguel’s definition of being Spiderman is “sacrifice”, especially personal sacrifices of peace and happiness so that others may survive and prosper. Unfortunately, Miguel’s display of “canon events” flies in the face of the idea that anyone is really in charge of their fate since, to Miguel, it’s the responsible thing to let these events happen lest it risk the destruction of universes. Mile’s insistence on being different and doing things his way is reframed as a flaw of arrogance just as much as the previous film showed it as self-actualizing confidence. He doesn’t know if saving his father would destabilize his universe or not, but still attempts to do so, choosing an irresponsible path that leaves him stranded in a heroless universe staring down the version of him that was robbed of his heroic destiny and was reinvented as a villain. And we are left by movie’s end with two teams, Team Responsibility and Team Irresponsibility, one believing independence at the risk of recklessly causing catastrophe and the other insisting on the importance of sacrifice at the cost of becoming cruel. Both sides are fleshed out and have positive and negative aspects, leaving the audience to decide which is the correct path.
I feel like Miguel and Miles are really good parallels that didn’t get enough screen time. They’re both VERY different spider men, in almost complete opposite ways. Both are very lonely people, one motivated by guilt and anger, the other love and compassion. Ones alone through being outcasted and the other by his differences with others supposedly like him as well. I really hope in the final movie they give Miguel more screen time and more interaction with miles because I feel it’s a missed opportunity otherwise.
I am certain we will get to see Miles and Miguel interact with one another some more in BTSV, I also feel like the writers will definitely lean more heavily into those parallels in the movie.
@@GladwinAbel They had to hold it back...Because it's going to be a plot twist and Miles 42 is going to be the actual parallel to Miguel O'Hara. As Main Miles parallels Gwen and Peter B and Uncle Aaron.
Possibly the only good the 'Spiderman Squad' has done is give each of the members a chance to relate with others who had gone through similar situations. A lot of 'hero movies' nowadays seem to have and angst phase where they feel completely alone in their situation and no one to relate their troubles to in regard to their force upon mutations. But now there's nearly a society of 'spider people' they can relate to and find solace. Sort of how battle weary soldiers only really bond with other soldiers.
Miles Morales is a great Spiderman that represents why Spiderman in general can't just let people die when he can save them. While Miles is different from others who have taken up the mantle of Spiderman, which in itself is a good thing, he shows what makes Spiderman the hero he is. The movie's version of Miguel O'Hara is one who lost sight of what it means to be Spiderman, and I honestly hope that he redeems himself in the next movie because of Miles.
I hope Miguel is redeemed too, because he's a hero who forgot what being a hero means since the death of his family. I believe Miles will show him the way.
Upon watching ATSV for the third time, I realized that when Peter B. Parker reunited with Miles, he brought Mayday to meet Miles and Miguel, showed them pictures of her, and let Miguel hold the baby so that he (Miguel) would calm down and be more lenient and gentle with Miles.
While this comment section alone has pointed so many things this film so expertly explores, the thing I've personally taken away the most from this film is embodied by this single line. "Nah, Imma do my own thing". As someone who has always felt alone, or like an outsider because I've always tried to do my own thing, never have I felt myself resonate so much with a character before in my life than in that moment and thus has forever cemented Miles Morales and my most favourite protagonist in all of fiction.
Fr. I'm autistic. I just don't fit in, and any camouflaging/high masking effort ends up being bad for ME while other see the mask crumble and push me away because I don't fit their little frame. I love Miguel and how he's a hero so bereft with grief and guilt he lost sight of who he is and can be, but when Miles pulled the "nah, imma do my own thing", I almost wanted to cry because holy fuck yes Miles go do your thing my brave guy, because standing up to the established rules is insanely hard but I think he can pull it out. Hopefully he'll help Miguel at the same time because does that intensely depressed man need that.
I don't trust people who hate gwen after this movie. She is a 16/17 year old girl without a home and with a knowledge that her dad and her best friends dad has to die. It's normal that she doesn't tell Miles about it. The whole movie she is telling that the thing Miguel tells her to do doesn't fill right. At the end she trusts her gut and makes a "band" to save her best friend. She litterly felt he was in danger across the multiverse.
I agree. I see so many people trashing her on TH-cam and Reddit and it's really annoying. Calling her names, saying that she was never good enough for Miles or saying that Margo and Peni are better people for Miles to be in a relationship with, it's disingenuous and terrible takes all around. I love Gwen in this movie and in the last, she's amazing and I really loved her arc in this film and I can't wait to see how she clears things up in Beyond.
@@shanecorcoran2542 Peni is actually the same age as Miles. And Margo just uses an avatar to actually be at Spider-Society. But regardless, they don't have any chemistry with Miles, Peni is Miles's friend and he just met Margo in the movie. That and he's clearly interested in Gwen.
I don't think it's only the traumatic deaths that each person experiences that make them spiderman, it's the development and heart of the person. The way they overcome the obstacle. I'm sure deep down Migel has that but he's been so on the idea of the canon and his mistakes that he's become cold hearted. Great video.
This movie was great. Miguel has a solid reason for trying to keep the Multiverse intact, but Miles' is thinking from a personal, emotional point of view. Its a tale as old as time; *Duty VS Desire*
Miguel is not suddenly a maniac he lost his daughter TWICE and cause a universe to get wipe, Spider-Man is like saitama he does his hero buisness for fun as well but Miguel takes it 100% serious cause he feels it’s his responsibility to shoulder it
Excellent video! Miguel is such a good antagonist for a movie about what makes someone Spider-Man. He represents the comic fans themselves, the people who see Peter as the “real/true” Spider-Man and see the canon events as necessary suffering that is integral to being Spider-Man, rather than them being essential to what shaped a version of Spider-Man. Miles is Spider-Man because he essentially chooses himself in the first movie, and Miguel can’t accept that. He didn’t get where he is without going through so much pain, it’s shaped every aspect of who he is as a person. Miguel thinks suffering and still doing things “for the greater good” regardless of how much it hurts is what makes someone a hero, and Miles refuses to buy into that narrative. Miles might be wrong, maybe his dad does need to die or the universe collapses. But he isn’t Peter and he isn’t Miguel, so maybe the things that shape Miles into his own kind of Spider-Man are completely different. Miles wants to find his own path, he paints over the suit in the first movie as a sign of him making Spider-Man his own. He shapes his canon just as much as he is shaped by it, and that’s something Miguel cannot understand or accept. He is the perfect foil to Miles, and an excellent commentary on real world comic book fans and their steadfast belief in what makes a Spider-Man.
Miles is literally the chosen one steroids because: 1.biten by a spider that came from different dimension and accidentaly bite miles 2.Uncle died and Peter parker in front of him 3 .he every spiderman trait +extra abilities or more hax 4.he thinks like a spiderman(save everyone ) 2099 is fake natty and even miles questioned if he was spidey because he is opposite of everything i mention above
I love the contrast between Spider-hams "you can't save everyone" and Miguels "saving the universe vs saving one person" as with the first it's a even though you can't save everyone doesn't mean you stop trying to save someone
This movie is beautiful, and I am looking forward to Beyond the Spider-Verse. I really feel like a key theme is definitely expectations and going against them. People like his parents are worried for Miles being accepted when he is different, going against the expectations of others when he wants Princeton. The Spider Society goes against Miles' expectations, and he has to make a choice on what to do when ordered to fall in line. Even Hobie, who was built as a romantic rival, went against expectations by being the best support Miles had when the Spider Society turned on him.
Here a conversation in Spiderman Edge of time that i like Parker: Fine. I'm a nosy Parker! But now that i found out.. Miguel: it's what? my job to save her? i got enough to deal with! Parker: you can't mean that? you just can't ignore that she's in danger. Miguel: i'm trying to focus on what important. Parker: what's important is not standing by and allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing. if you don't get that. then you don't get the first thing about Spider-man
Spider-Man was never forged by tragedy. Everyone experiences tragedy it’s how we choose to react and commit to our actions. Peter chose to take revenge and realize he could have done something. Harry believed spider man killed his father and he chose to to harbor his hatred and attempt to kill his friend. Peter in return chose to not explain what happened. The point is they can choose. Gwen chose to stay behind to help stop electro and she lost her life but Peter tried with all his might to save her . Spider-Ham is right you can’t save everyone but you choose to try.
I genuinely think that the relationship between Gwen and Miles is one of my favorite romances in movie history. Their scene on clock tower is probably my favorite in the film.
Everything about that clock tower scene is perfect, I loved their relationship in the whole movie and that scene hit me in a way I never expected it would. From the cool ass upside down transition, the amazing dialogue between the two and their entire development like Miles showing why Gwen appreciates him so much, by being different and breaking from the norm
Facts the writers really love these characters they character imo this miles is the best Spider-Man out of all other versions of himself, they made me love gwen, they made Peter Parker happy for once, they made a underrated villains popular. Some of the side characters they use as comedic but it’s not that bad like Ben Reilly. It was more of a joke too tbh
Yes I always thought gwen pity miles and I’m part 1 they were just friends but she’s generally impressed by him, he’ll miles is my favorite character as well too. Their bond is special and it just shows how determined miles was to save his parents by cutting gwen off. Obviously he didn’t want to, he couldn’t even look her in the eyes when he said she was right about her not coming to see him.
I have been swimming in analysis videos of this films over the last week and a bit, but have been eagerly waiting to hear you specifically talk about it, and you did not disappoint. Its been so amazing seeing so many people give this film all the love it deserves!
ATSV came out at the perfect time for me, as I’m going to university in September, so seeing miles discussing his itinerary with his parents was relatable, especially since he will have to continue his journey without them being close to him. This was a really good analysis, sage rain, which isn’t surprising coming from you.
I say both sides are right about being Spiderman. Yes being Spiderman isn't an easy happy job. The path to be a hero is filled with pain and struggle. Spiderman has gone through many heartaches, tragedies and experienced a lot of trauma. But all those things made him who is but tragedy isn't all Spiderman is. Yes Spiderman always finds a way to save people but he can't save everyone. The job requires sacrifice but that's not all he has to be. Miguel O'Hare was my favourite character in this movie. He's so fascinating and complex he's not an evil villain trying to take over the multiverse. Miguel is just trying to do what he thinks is the right thing.
Sony will NEVER fully give up the rights to Spider-Man, it’s hilarious how they tell Marvel Studios/Disney "we’ll let you borrow him from time to time, but he’s ours".
@@stacie1595It's why Disney needs to be broken up and IP law needs reform so that we don't get tired retreads every few years just to maintain copyright and trademark.
I personally despise cake eaters people who think they can have it all with no consequence but in this case I actually want to see Miles try. I want to see him save his father and prevent the destruction of the multiverse in the least contrived way
Because usually people who wants their cake and wants to eat it too are doing it for unjustifiable selfish reasons. Miles literally just wants to save the multiverse AND save his dad. It's selfish, yes, because it could risk the destruction of the multiverse, but who can blame him for wanting his dad to live? This time it's actually justifiable.
this is a wonderful video essay! the core of Spider-Man is that he perseveres and tries no matter what. Even if Miles isn't successful in saving his world and his family because Spider-Man typically doesn't get a happy ending when it comes to being able to accomplish both tasks, he will definitely persevere after the fact, and that is what is powerful about the character.
Across the Spiderverse is the perfect Progressive/Woke film. Great representation, animation, music, characters, and story!! Love that in this film, they turned the initial reaction of some Spiderman Fans when Miles was introduced into a plot. "Not my Spiderman" they said. Miles was never supposed to be Spiderman but he did, and for me, that makes him the Best Spiderman. Can't wait for the finale!
I saw this movie weeks ago and I can safely say that this is one of the pieces of media where that I can see both perspectives on the conflict at hand.
This is 100% an idea I took from other people, but I like to think Hobie fully intended to rebel against the spider society before he even met Miles. It was really him encouraging Miles to fight the system rather than the other way around, and the biggest evidence of that is what he's actually doing at that point of the film. All of Miles's friends from the first movie are trying to reason with him and Miguel, solve the issue with words rather than fighting. But then there's Hobie who shows up, steals shit to make his own watch, makes sure Miles can escape the trap he probably knew was coming, and then quits as soon as the actual fighting began. Man when "aight, my work here is done" and peaced out, lol.
I feel like this title’s sentiment is a lot stronger in the first film, especially when considering the closing monologue that explains “anyone can wear the mask” Personally this movie make me think more about what kind of Spider-Man he wants to become
One thing that strikes me about Miles as an “anomaly” is how Miles in the other universe was meant to be Spiderman. So what are the odds that miles in another universe is bitten by that spider. Why not someone else?
There's a lot of parallels between miles and where the mcu spiderman is at currently, they're both in incredibly isolated places. Miles in a dimension that isn't his and Tom holland whos identity has been forgotten by everyone including those he loved and could confide in
Hobbie is not just a Love Rival, but the Next Big Mentor and Best Friend for Miles to Learn. He Could be the Big Bro. Miles Never Expect and the Kammina of this Series.
So I'm 28. I grew up with the 90's spider-man cartoon, played spider-man on N64, watched the Sam Raimi Spider-man trilogy atleast 5 times, as well as many other things minus reading the comics up to the present. However, I don't think I understood why spider-man works as a hero. The x-men is about race, batman(for the most part) does the right thing even when its hard, super man is the symbol for hope. For spider-man, I like him and always will, but could never describe him in just a few words as I did with the others. Not until I saw spider-verse 1 when it came out. I knew who miles was before then but that was it. I never knew his personality. Honestly, as a black man, I was just happy to see him take up the title. Seeing spider-verse 1 hit both miles character and what it meant to be spider-man for me. "Anyone can be spider-man". Your name doesn't have to be peter, parker, marry jane, gwen stacy, shoot even aunt may. Miles is a kid from Brooklyn with this "great power, great responsibility" suddenly thrust upon him. Took him a bit, but he did his "leap of faith" and accepted his role as a super hero. If there was a kid out there right now who suddenly got bit by a radio-active spider, this would be their story. Yes you can say that about any spider-man iteration, but miles might as well be a new character in the spider-man lore. Who knew who miles, spider-punk, or Indian spider-man was if you weren't into the comic books before these movies? But you knew those other names right? I'm sorry for the long rant and most of that was just on the first movie. But I did watch the whole video and I get spider-verse 2, for miles, is about breaking the path this set for him and spider-man even. But for me, with my own interpretation of spider-verse 1 and 2 for that matter, being deserving of the spider-man title means doing what no one else could. "Its up to me" "nah I'mma do my own thing". Man I hope these spider-verse movies give more opptunities to bring other spider-man into the spotlight for the general public. I'll even take spider-man OCs if the story is good enough. Again, thank you for reading. I know it was alot.
"It's not criminal to be an individual." Marco Diza (SVTFOE). You go Miles make your own path & don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Spider-Man doesn't give up, "You're the best of all of us Miles, your on your way just keep going."
His father must die because the universe MIGHT tear itself to shreds if he doesn't. Even though the universe should have turned itself to shreds when he was bitten by the spider meant for Earth 42. the spider-verse is basically a compilation of webs so who is the proverbial spider spinning these webs? who decides that the police captain's death is a must.
Miguel has forgotten what made Spiderman a hero. He has forgotten everyone he's learned, and because of that, his ignorance will be the end of everything
Anyone who wants to do the right thing and tries to use their great power to build and help others to the best of their ability and is willing to sacrifice personal happiness for the sake of others (to an extent of course) deserves to be Spider-Man
To add on to this point Stan Lee even squids the reason Spider-Man’s identity shouldn’t stay public and he gave him a mask is because anyone can be Spider-Man, anyone can step up to help others and be a hero big or small
Talk about nailing it. In this trend of defining yourself, by your trauma is unhealthy. It’s this failure to heal and move on is what’s truly preventing all these guys from reaching their fullest potential. Their guilt made them do something really stupid. It made them betray their friend. Good to know that they’ve learned the error of their ways, but damn. They have a lot of apologies to deliver. Not to mention I can’t help but relate.. Dealt with something similar.
Amazing Video, I didn’t think to much about Miles’ arc in this movie but now that I’m thinking about it. His is tragic but at the same time hopeful. The spark that he gives people to try. Peter B. to try and get back M.J. Gwen to go off on her own and start her own band. It’s beautiful. But at the same time he’s currently on his own. Like all spiders end up.
"There's this inherent loneliness when it comes to the idea of Spider-Man. All of the Spider-Men introduce themselves as the 'one and only Spider-Man.' This idea that, on the most grounded level, Spider-Man is the sole hero of New York. And he has to ultimately juggle this incredible responsibility, juggle the few friends that they have, their personal life, and most of the time they don't tell anybody about it, out of fear of getting others involved, hurt, and/or in Miles case, fear of the repercussions." That's what the writers for Invincible, NEVER THOUGH OF when race-swapping Amber from the comics.
In addition, I would say it’s principal line goes thru the necessity of approbation and acceptation that we develop as we got older, but clearly movie invites to forget this necessity and be yourself, taking risks, breaking cannon events and follow our own way
The more time has passed after I watched this movie for the first time, the more I realise how valuable is the message of rebelling to the idea everyone has about Spiderman
True, but it wasn't JUST Uncle Ben dying that made him Spider Man( if we're talking about og origin story of Spider Man/ Peter Parker). It was the Realization of WHO took Uncle Bens life. By recognizing the man that murdered his uncle was the same man that robbed and rushed his handler, he realized how devastating his own actions were, and could be to others, if he didn't step in and help.
Yeah. Peter Parker, at least in the beginning, didn't have a natural heroic desire like Superman or Steve Rogers. So he needed a catalyst to get him to change his ways.
Beautiful video Sage. I think while everyone is trying to predict the outcome of this movie, I'm just wholly focused on the character Miles has and IS becoming. They say that the righteous path is always the hardest and even though some decisions MIGHT have alot at stake, it should never stop you from doing the right thing, or even trying to. Miles is that spiderman who is going to try. While everyone is obsessed with not saving certain people because its a written "canon event" or that there might be an off chance that the universe would perish if they do, Miles is the spiderman who is going to take it upon himself to be the hope for those who apparently "have to" perish. No way home encompasses this so well. Even if its the fate for the villians to perish, if yoi were given that chance to challenge that fate, would you not take it? And thats what Spider Holland did and saved everyone, even his natural enemies. Why? As stated by Tobey Maguires spiderman: "Its what we do". Whatever the outcome of the final movie, Miles has already cemented his legacy as The Amazing Spider-Man. And that he'll come home to his family with a "properly baked cake". The way I see it as well...Miles has the right like any other Spider-Man, to fight for what he wants and loves in his life. For his family, his friends, and even Gwen. Look at what he did for Peter, for Privakhir, and, probably what he'll do for Gwen. He deserves to be the Spider-Man who will try and fight with everything he has. To be the last bit of hope in every Spider-Mans story. In a world where Gwen cannot fall in love without a bad ending, Miles might just give her a good one. No matter what the story is for EVERYONE else, its the hope that should fuel all of these choices. To take that leap of faith regardless of the script. The hope of a good ending is something that is devoid in the spider society. Its written that they will all suffer and that they will all lose someone they love no matter what they do...so why bother fighting? Its "written". To us, its the script, to Miles however...well...."theres a first time for everything, right?" And for Miles sake, since hes the only one willing to try, willing to fight for it, I hope he gets that good ending.
I loved this movie it gave me everything I ever wanted and seeing my girl mayday Parker spidergirl finally adapted in animation makes me so happy that I am super excited to see more of her in the future also yay seeing Miles Morales Spider-Man and spidergwen become a couple in the future is really awesome that I cannot wait for beyond the spiderverse it’s going to be amazing at least in my opinion, also another bonus seeing miles morales Spider-Man prove everyone they are wrong is really awesome and of course another thing i love about this movie is that i got to see peter parker and mary jane have there daughter mayday parker spider-girl and having her help her dad made me so happy that i cannot wait to see her and spider-Gwen try to save Miles Morales is going to be really awesome and badass in my opinion.
Since seeing it, I've felt conflicted over the cliffhanger ending, how quickly the Spider Sanctum turns on him, and the whole idea of "the canon." But then you reminded me of who Miles Morales is in this story. Into was a story about Miles finding his own way to become Spider-Man. Across is about putting his way to the test, against everything we know to be Spider-Man. Thanks as always for your perspective, Sage!
About the Spider Society and Canon thing I believe that Miguel doesn't actually know what he's talking about however I believe that he has manipulated and lied to the entire Spider Society about the Canon in order to instill fear in them, the Spider Society turned on Miles because they were scared of what Miguel believed Miles could do to several Universes despite the fact that Miles is not an anomaly at all. I believe that in the end Miguel has created a lie that even believes to be the reason that can cause universes to collapse.
Theory: The "canon" event that Miguel broke is due to he running away from his responsibility. We can see that Gwen's dad broke his fate by embracing the difficulty of embracing the truth that his daughter is Spidergwen.
everytime i watch a video of yours i just don’t want it to stop man this is phenomenal your work your art the way you really break down things it’s just amazing man. I really connected with Miles in this movie man i’ve watched this movie like 3 times already and i want to go see it again. your content is real special man i appreciate the hours and effort you put into this Sage.
This video... is just simply beautiful. When you mentioned the heartbreak miles felt when he just wanted to meet his friends, and peter B and gwen sold him out I remember a edit I saw of that clip just highlighting the pain and betrayal he felt on that scene.
I really like how the first movie focuses on the men in miles’ life and the second one focuses on the women in his life (the intro of this video made me realize that)
Great breakdown of the film. Only thing I disagree with is his friends have deserted him by the end of the film. Gwen has realized she was wrong for not being by Miles side when he needed her and she along with Peter B are ready to redeem themselves in the next film. Gwen now understands Miles way of being is the right way to live. She's ready to take her leap of faith
It doesn’t matter how many Spider-Mans there are. As long as all of them stay true to themselves and fight against crime for justice, they all should be able to embrace the arachnid persona. Such beautiful films deserve love.
I think Miguel is the living proof is, for "In how extension someone is worthy and deserves to be Spiderman?" Like, even failed, troubled and morally gray individuals can be Spiderman? How this can apply to a person which his ideology, perspective and beliefs are not only different but rather antagonistic to what Peter had stablished in this duty? Is becoming Spiderman also a spiritual and character journey to change for the best or just an endless cycle of suffering? For the sake of peoples that don't quite deserve your services or enemies that you should bring to justice(which your justice being them dying), Miles sees his Spider Powers more a gift/blessing rather than a curse/burden like Miguel sees, after all, in one side we have a kid that has everything to lose and other is a individual that while doesn't have anything to lose, the whole multiverse is counting on him to stop something bigger to destroy the lifes of not only other Spidermans, but zillions of peoples in each Earths. So yeah, Miguel by some extension has also counter arguments to Rio's Perspective, I know you are being selifsh for the sake of your own Wolf Pack, but, is it truly worthy let not only other peoples but places to be shattered because what you are supposed to do to not make other peoples die, is let your kid grow to become a man and face the pain of loss, after all, he's a Spiderman, it's what came with the job, suffering. Spiderman is defined by his perseverance on struggling and suffering but still rising from it until he can do the right thing and not fail again. Both Miles and Miguel are trying to do it, but by two different positions, persevering in what they believe is right and to what they judge is better for anyone, the thing is, which ideology will prevail in the end
Spiderman ATSV is truly a family film. There's this running motif around family. Miles has his mom and dad, Gwen has her dad, Peter B Parker has become a dad and was inspired by Miles, Miguel lost his family trying to be a dad in another universe, Spiderwoman is going to be a mom and Gwen asks to be adopted by her. Miles even helps Aunt May out long after Peter passed. The whole "canon events" thing is a fun meta narrative on how fans validate characters and force every comic character into the same boxes. Spiderman doesn't necessarily have to be Peter Parker or white, but does Spiderman really need to go through all that torture and trauma to be who he is? As someone that has grown up with both parents in the household, I find it funny how every manga or comic book superhero has to lose their parents somehow. I'm really glad Spiderverse is getting its flowers and I can't wait for BTSV.
i called Spider-Ham Spider-Pig, i'm sorry 💔anyways what are your thoughts on the movie?
I just can't get over my head that if spider people can't interfere with other universes of spider people because of the web (if that's how it is called) may collapse their universe,how come the spider society exists? It's in another universe gathering many other spider people from many other spider-verses and yet the universe didn't collapse?
It's cool. You were just thinking about the simpsons movie 😂😂😂
I have yet to watch but I'll definitely watch it when I have the chance.
The movie was just.... Perfect.
I thought this movie was fantastic
I love how they introduced Hobie as a romantic rival for Miles, yet throughout the whole movie he proves himself to be an absolute lad.
But we all know that Miles x Gwen is the real endgame.
I didn't like him when he first showed up but when I heard the "I don't believe in comedy!....Joking!" line I lost it and he became my favorite of the new spider-men
Hobbie Brown in the comics was the original Prowler. Miles would have been the Prowler if he hadn't been bitten. There's a connection there.
I don't think Gwen and Hobie actually had a romantic relationship at all, but since Gwen couldn't go home and she and Hobie got along well enough and so he extended the invitation to his place for her to crash. Just a good friend helping out.
Miles not knowing all the information who also has a huge crush on Gwen gets the wrong idea, which I think is also conveyed to the audience as the movie takes place from his perspective. I could be wrong, but that was my interpretation.
@@MisterJokestarthat actually makes sense, i mean she days she crash3d there everynow and then, she is wearing his shoes and he reminds her of her toothbrush.
To most of us that screams "yeah, they foking" but honestly seems like Hobbie is just a chill dude and a good friend to his friends and Gwen being alone and without a home seems like the kind of help a good friend would give, also he menstions that she tales about miles A LOT so theres that
The "anyone can be Spider-Man" is exactly why Stan Lee originally gave Spider-Man a full-cover mask and suit. That's one of the primary lessons of Spider-Man, so it's likely to be correct.
It was actually not something they did on purpose, but Stan Lee realized how the fact that he was covered meant anyone could be spiderman and added that to the character
It's still an amazing thing and I really like how it became such a prevalent part of his character
I love this
@guyWSonicpicture
Thank you for actually knowing what Stan said
So many people misquote that interview. Like Stan already gets a lotta unnecessary praise for stuff he didn't do, let's not add this to being one of em
@@YaBoiPhilyou wake up extra early just to hate, huh?
Stan Lee AND Steve ditko. Steve ditko is the one who gave Spiderman a mask to cover his face. It wasn't Lee's idea. Both ditko and Lee contributed a lot to SpiderMan character but it was sad how no one remembers Steve ditko. He literally died alone in his apartment and only to be found 2 days later by police... And to this day, people still barely remember him despite being the creator of the most iconic superhero of all time.
I thought Peter B Parkers arc was great. He didn't get sidelined, he didn't get belittled or anything. He got over his mental health issues, reconciled with MJ and actually got a kid with her. We can see, that their relationship works great and he loves their kid dearly.
Also he is really proud of Miles and takes every opportunity to tell the other spiderpeople, that he himself was Miles' mentor and teacher.
And he always tries to diffuse the situation, because he knows and understands what Miguel is about and why things have to be the way they are. But he also loves Miles and doesn't want the kid to get hurt.
For me, Peter B’s POV is the one I adopt the most in this Anomaly crisis. Miguel is right about many things, after all, he deeply cares for the fate of the Multiverse and he makes sure that no one ever makes the same mistakes as he did. But at the same time, Peter can’t really go against Miles because he knows him better than most people. He knows he’s not being selfish by trying to save his dad because he also wants to prove a point. Spider-Man CAN do both and, even if he fails, trying is worth the risk. I’ll probably never pick a definitive side in this conflict, but I’m definitely rooting for Spider-Man.
@@luigiboyinblu Your cruel Miles doesn't deserves to suffer even more he's alright lost his uncle once and doesn't have to go through that pain again on losing his dad😡 too even if he's the Anomaly he can't just stand my and let the people die or suffer cause his dad's death but he's placing his life on the line too helping other in those in need Miguel is wrong to ever call him a mistake if anyone is a mistake it's O'hara and the rest of the spider gang no one can define their fate not miles he wants to save his father and proves to everyone that's he the one and only spiderman to give the people hope and those who need.
@@rjabanador465 You realize that by saving his dad there’s a high chance that his universe might collapse along with multiple others right? That’s the whole point of the stakes of the movie, there’s a possibility that Miles’ success backfires tremendously and that’s why Miguel is trying to stop him. Sure, he’s been really harsh on Miles and that’s not excusable, but there’s a reason why most Spider-People don’t turn against him, because he’s right in multiple degrees. You’re also right in that Miles doesn’t deserve more suffering, just like most Spider-People don’t either, that’s why I obviously understand Miles as well. Both of them are right and wrong at the same time for me.
@@luigiboyinbluFinally. Someone else gets it. Why try to save one life when you can potentially ruin billions? It’s not a trade off that makes sense
@@luigiboyinblumaybe Miguel isn't right about what's causing the universes to collapse, matpat theorised that it's because of multiple dimensional beings existing in the same universe that's causing them to collapse.
This really shows that comic book fatigue isn’t really the thing happening, it just takes real passion that doesn’t feel like an algorithm made it.
What happens when they write real characters and not tropes and checkboxes lol
Like how every avengers movie’s climax is just taking on an army of cannon fodder? Avengers: Aliens
Age of Ultron: Robots
Infinty War: Aliens again
Endgame: Aliens again again
this. exactly!
Bro facts. Marvel could take a page from Sony here. They are doing sooo good with these Spider-Man films
100% agree. Superhero fatigue isn't a thing. The oldest surviving story, The Epic of Gilgamesh, is about humans who are super. What people are tired of is mediocre, bland movies, especially when they are connected to an extended universe. A good story is a good story no matter what is used to tell it. Whether it's a historical drama, a sci-fi, a superhero movie, or anything else. People like good movies.
Loved how Gwen’s story mirrored her father’s story. George Stacy was a cop who was trying to play by the book when it came to the legality of Spider-Woman. He turned his back on his own daughter because that’s what he was supposed to do.
When Gwen felt abandoned and alone and was taken in by the Spider-Society, she gave all of herself to their cause and was playing by the book. She only wanted to go to other dimensions just to see Miles, similar to Miles only wanting to find out how to to other dimensions just to see Gwen and his friends. She felt alone and just wanted companionship. With the fear of going back home, Gwen dedicated herself to just sticking to the life that was written for her until she has the one moment of weakness where she gives into what she wants, kickstarting the whole plot.
After that we see Gwen’s struggle between what she’s supposed to do and what she feels compelled to do, and by the end she comes out the other side realizing that sometimes you have to throw out the playbook and fight for what we truly want. And this development gets mirrored with George Stacy quitting his job as a cop because he values his daughter much more. Gwen’s story was such a great cautionary tale and parallel for Miles and just a great story overall. Loved how the film bookended with Gwen’s arc.
Holy shit you’re right
The best cop is the one who quits being a cop, Hobie Brown would likely approve.
Whoa nice catch
@@christiantabares6713Also, now that George Stacy is no longer a PDNY captain, this somehow means that his death is no longer a mandatory canon event, saving Gwen a lot of heartache in the process. For some reason, being a police captain is a death sentence in the Spiderverse.
@@arcturionblade1077and this is where Gwen learns from Miles, it’s all possible
One of the themes that I don’t see anyone talking about is the whole idea of our weird need to give pain meaning.
This movie dared to ask a question not only I couldn’t ever have come up with, but out right consider heresy at some point of my life.
"Does Peter Parker actually have to suffer to be Spider-Man?"
Thing is, many of us do feel like growth only comes with pain. It helps us cope with our pain and at times there really is a lesson to be learned. But just like Miguel, we’re deeply afraid of seeing that our pain actually may have not been necessary at all. Our self image falls apparat the moment we realize that our trauma was not necessary to be better people.
Miles represents the opposite. The infinite potential of us stopping to depend on our trauma to explore the world around us. What we could be if we chased after what we believe in and desire.
It feels like this movie stared at my soul and asked why not have your cake and eat it too? What’s stopping you from baking two?
As someone who went through a lot, this movie really helped shaped my perspective on that statement.
Peter Parker had to suffer to become Spider-Man, and Spider-Man brings suffering, but he doesn't have to suffer to keep being Spider-Man.
Unlike Miles, Peter had to suffer to become someone better.
That's just poetic and very true. Spiderman has always been a very tragic character. A man who always had to choose the happiness of others over his own to bear the weight of trauma in order to be better.
When you think about it, this Miles is like us who have always admired Spiderman for all the good things that he is and what he represents, and yet we see just what Holding such a titles demands of you and what it must take in order to be Spiderman. As the premise of the movie and this video is what exactly makes you a spider man? Is it the spider bite, your tragedy, or your willingness to keep going no matter what?
basically “good damage” from bojack horseman
Growth does come from pain. But overcoming tragedy is not the same as letting it happen.
One of the best details in the film is that Miles wants to study physics and quantum mechanics because he wants the chance to see his Spider Friends again in another dimension. Just shows how alone Miles felt and how he needed Gwen and the other Spider People.
Initially Miles wanted to do art but he puts that dream aside just for the to be a chance he sees his friends again and they had the opportunity to see him again but didn’t
I never really understood why miles could be so mad they didn’t come if they couldn’t but this makes me understand it’s because he doesn’t understand why they wouldn’t even when told not to he would’ve done it in a heartbeat lol
@@neothadon4712 Bro would’ve done it in a heartbeat
@@eddiee9147i believe he dropped was due to his ties of art w his uncle which Miles was part of his death sadly to say. But yes this is a great observation esp since his parents think he’s crazy for such an abnormal idea. To back this up, look when Miles told his mom he’s Spider-Man in thé different timelinesa-Spider-Man actually was nvr around since good Miles intervened in his “canon” timeline (he wasn’t suppose to be the Spider-Man)
Miguel lost sight of what Spiderman is. Miles EMBODIES what Spiderman is. Hope. And where Miguel became paranoid by fear because of 'what if?' Miles takes the opportunity whenever there is one to help and try.
Amazing what being a rookie will do
"What's important is not standing by while allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing. If you don't get that, then you don't get the first thing about being Spider-Man."
- Peter Parker (Amazing Spider-Man) teaching Miguel O'Hara (Spider-Man 2099) what being Spider-Man means (Spider-Man: Edge of Time)
And Miles is the only Spider-Man in the multiverse who embodied those values. Gwen realized that it's all possible after her dad quit and then made a band to go save Miles and then save his dad, Miles is going to be the catalyst needed for the Spider-Society to remember why they wear the mask.
You say this, but in the Insomniac games Spiderman prepared to make the sacrifice Miguel did. Aunt May needed the cure, he let her die because it would save the city.
He only said that because someone important to him was in danger. A true hero makes sacrifices. Like insomniac spider-man did by letting his aunt die so he could save the whole city. However miles can't make that sacrifice when the stakes are much higher. Which is the whole multiverse. Miles is not a hero. He is just an emotional and selfish teenager. Miguel is the true hero. And the fact that he managed to become worthy of Mjölnir proves that. Which the original spider-man never managed to do.
@@JudgeHoldenUwU Miguel isn’t a hero in the context of canon events, since you literally have to let people die in order to be a “true” Spider-Man through pain and tragedy.
Yes Miles could fail, he could lose his dad and fall against the Spot but at least he’ll try to save his dad and stop the Spot instead of doing nothing.
Miles *is* a hero for trying, for sticking to the core values of what Spider-Man is about, saving everyone no matter what. Miguel has lost sight of what being Spider-Man really is due to losing his family.
Miles will remind him and the rest of the society why they’re heroes and why they truly wear the mask.
And regarding Edge of Time, what Peter told Miguel still applies to saving people in general. Even if it wasn’t MJ, he still would’ve said those words to him if it was someone else.
@@popopop984 This is different from that. She got infected and unfortunately the cure wasn’t enough for both her and the city.
In the case of Jefferson, there’s still two days to prevent him from being sworn in as Captain Morales. Miles can still save him.
I actually really like Peter in the film. He is an older character who is a dad, and hecka proud of it. He wears the baby carrier with grace remember there was a time when weirdos would say a dad wearing that was awful and not masculine while at the same time complaining man never help He's chilling going around with comfy slippers and a bathrobe with no shame. I never took it as the writer trying to put him down. More like, his priority is his daughter. He is one of my favs.
True and remember he still got to be spider-man so it's like he's wearing to suits his husband and dad suit and his spidey suit. I like that he isn't wearing his spidey suit with sadness but with pride because he has to set an example for his daughter who is on her own journey to becoming spidergirl
Peter was always scared of having a kid and being Spider-Man do him wearing the suit underneath with the robe and slippers so that it worked out well. Funny how miles was a mistake but he changed Peter and Gwen’s life forever, Peter would’ve continued to fight crimes while being miserable if he never came to miles earth and met him.
Wait, people took his slippers and pink bathrobe as derogatory? When it's an amazing representation of non-toxic masculinity? Peter B is a Spider-man that doubles his responsibilities by being a dad and being dressed like a dad (if Mayday pukes or leaves snot on him, it's more practical to wash a comfy bathrobe and put another one).
I really liked how this film really emphasized Spider-Man 2099's motivation and how even though he's right about many things, he still overlooks the flaws in his own crusade to protect the multiverse and how maybe some stories aren't meant to play out as intended.
Great Point agree indeed
This can also apply to miles he ain’t Peter and their stories are not the same, Miguel is blinded by his past he lost his daughter twice and killed a universe he is scared of it happening again so he won’t try to look for other possibilities, I think their is more than miguel than the movie showing but we will find out cause I don’t think he’s right about everything
Just because he's correct, DOSEN'T means he's RIGHT
Keeping a secret by your own crush is the worst kind of betrayal a protagonist like Miles Morales has ever faced.
At least Gwen Stacy (Spider-Gwen) has come to realizing that keeping a secret from your own crush is one of the worst kinds of sacrifice a hero from another dimension has made because he was an original anomaly.
The moment Miles saids “goodbye Gwen” to her is heartbreaking enough that your friendship and your trust in others is destroyed because you have to follow the “Canon Event” rule.
Now that she’s assembling her own spider team to rescue Miles and help stop the Spot, she needs to earn his trust again at first.
Who is excited to see Spider-Man: Beyond the Spiderverse?
I'm excited!
Hell yeah!!!
I'm surprised he didn't mention Gwen Stacy's dad breaking canon by quitting his job. It's another knock on Miguel's canon theory, but it also pushed Gwen to realize the error of her and Miguel's ways and try to help/join Miles.
Noticed that but thought that would've just put her world into danger a well. Like when Miles saved the father and created that black hole, why didnt that happen to Gwen's world
@@El_Deus. That was the Spot who did that.
@@windghost2the spot himself himself is a anomaly as well
@@GladwinAbel I know.
I think it's also fitting that this kid is Spiderman, because of his very name. The name Miles screams someone who wants to go the distance and see new things. Morales implies someone who faces moral and ideological struggles, yet willing to go the extra "mile" just to defy fate and the opinions of others. Miles Morales is one of the best, if not "the" best Spidemen of all time.
Genius analysis. I never thought about his name like that
I like how Miguel is right,but SO IS Miles.
Miguel is right to be worried about the multiverse because of what he has witnessed and what happened to him.
HOWEVER.
You can't expect someone in their right godforsaken mind to just go ahead and let their father die just "because it is what it is". Also I can't wait for the closing case between Gwen + Peter B and Miles after what happened to them at the train. Goodness me i love this damn movie
This! All of this!
While Miguel is "trying" to save the universe, he is not actively trying to find different or better ways to save it. Enforcing this as the one and only way (Altho i also think "canon events" can't be changed). Perhaps there is another way that the Universe can be saved without so much sacrifice (Altho again I feel like this shits on everyone else's sacrifice and loss). This could be boiling down to: "a hero would sacrifice you to save the world, but a villain would sacrifice the world to save you."
Another thing is changing what IS going to happen, miles wasnt going to change what already has happened.
@@El_Deus.Bro, he just escaped. Give him a second to cook.
@filthycasual3899 tbh Miguel did heavily imply during his explanation scene that he did try to find and apply other solutions, and saw other universes crash nonetheless. And he's not the only one, we know other Spiderpersons (such as Peter B) witnessed the events along with him and follow him for that reason, because he offers a way to process the grief and trauma of what was witnessed, even though in his case it goes even further because he had very personal involvement in one of the erasures - it left him extremely guilt-ridden and sca(r)red, now the guilt and fear drive him and cause a narrative stagnation shown by his extreme enforcement of the status quo through the Canon Event reasonment as well as his lashing out at Miles because from his PoV, this is an inexperienced baby who has no business doing what he is doing and who DARES say to his face he disagrees with him - thus putting his Canon Event reasonment into question, and forcing him to face his personal hang-ups in the process. Even worst, based on the post-credit from ITSV, it seems Miguel used to be more similar to Miles before he became the Most Traumatised Man in the multiverse. Imagine seeing someone about to do what you did and saying "fuck your counter-argument" when you personally witnessed the consequences. No wonder Miguel becomes so unhinged as the chase goes.
Now I am not saying "Miguel is right, Miles is wrong", because both are legitimate in their stance imo (and my man Miguel badly needs a therapist). However it is certainly said in the movie that Miguel tried, tried again and failed and became very much jaded and overworked as a consequence (plus having to constantly be the Straight Man to MANY Spiderpersons' Silly Man while leading the operations and getting shit done). Which is why he does not believe in Miles and even dismisses him in a paternalistic way by calling him "kid" even before he loses his shit during the train chase.
I feel like Gwen rejected herself. In the sense that she has confined herself to the idea that she can never have what she wants when it comes to her life as Gwen Stacy.
Her loneliness and the one thing that fills that void where she's happy and full of life, is Miles. She can be herself, but she still can't be whole. It's crazy how she and Miles feel so connected.
I'm glad she's fighting for what she wants. "It's all possible" Even though she's separated from Miles again he still inspires her. That determination she has really shows how much she loves Miles.
I always thought gwen pity miles cause he’s younger and she’s quite more capable in the first film, but she’s genuinely impressed by his determination to do his own thing, it’s true she was giving half of herself to miles and it ended up ruining everything but she’s ready to give it her all now.
I thought the perspective of Miles leaving his community (diverse, multicultural, home), and go to a PWI for college was a really strong metaphor for the overall issue of needing to stay true to himself in the movie. The contrast between home and the world... And it also made for a really moving scene with his mom, where the advice is true for so many folks in real life, but also works in the science fiction plot as well! Super good representation and writing
This movie made the statement that i wanted to hear. We have had so many superheroes with tragic backstories that at one point i got fed up and asked, why can't we have a hero who is one because he wants to be a good person? Why are we defining our heroes by their tragedies and not their good deeds?
And you know what? I'm glad this movie came out.
Spiderman, to me personally, is a hero because he chooses to do good things, not because of his tragic backstory. And i hated writers for constantly heaping tragedies on him.
Miguel has this warped view of what it means to be Spider-Man. He thinks it's a downward spiral of never-ending pain and suffering and sacrifice.
I like to look at it as Peter did as well but it took miles to show that their is a joy of being spider-man where miles reminded him of that. Miguel is a good man going through alot of pain in a different scale miles is just going to have to push harder to help miguel see that what he view is wrong. If miles can help Peter grow and take the leap of faith so can miguel.
That is why i don't really like No Way Home. That's what that movie falls like the takeaway is for Peter, when that's just a symptom, or a byproduct of his mission.
@@princeoftech7473I’m pretty sure the story of that was inspired by an actual guy that got doxxed and had to leave his loved ones behind so they could be safe.
@@princeoftech7473you being serious???
It's not that Hobie is pulled in by what miles does it's that miles is truly genuine about the things he cares about Punk is all about caring and showing that even when you have to fight you do it from a place of love and compassion. Not just for yourself but for those around you that you strive to make the world a better place
Yes saw how my boi took charged of the mumbattan rescue, hobie respected miles and pav as well why you think they joined gwen band.
A major part of Spider-man definitely is sacrifice. But it's more so self sacrifice. And that is something miles absolutely needs to learn. You can't have your cake and eat it too. And if you do get two cakes you end up with "I'm not proud" aka not giving either proper treatment.
Im gonna say it, I love that the relationship of Gwen and her father is nice, im so sick of every female main character being a dick for no reason to every male in the screen, seeing Gwen hug her father despise the difference on how they do good in the world made me so happy!
Miles truly embodies the anime protagonist who constantly is emitting a ray of positivity much like Naruto, Luffy etc.
I agree, he also embodies that same gravitating energy that pulls people to his side to want to help him succeed like Naruto.
@@windghost2 yessir bob I was thinking the same thing and Miguel kind of reminds me of Sasuke with how much they’re suffering has defined their bleak outlook on life.
@@kingpinpasta2934 Miles will help Miguel see that what happened doesn't have to define him and how he's Spider-Man.
He'll guide him back toward the light.
"Pain doesn't make people. It's love that makes people. The pain is inconsequential. It's love that saves them."
- Taliesin Jaffe/Caduceus Clay.
Did not expect to find CR wisdom around here. Was not disapointed! ❤❤
Did not expect to find CR wisdom around here. Was not disapointed! ❤❤
I really loved into the Spiderverse and I will never get tired of Sunflower.
I really loved Across the Spiderverse, the best Superhero movie of the year for me.
Imo anyone can be Spider-Man, people always say that Peter has values that he always follows which isn't always true. Sometimes Peter just wants to give up and not let things be his problem, but he can't do that and he goes and saves the day. I really love a lot of adaptions of the wall crawler
Yeah he doesn't do it because he has to its cause he choices to. That what I love About each and every spider person is that they choose to put on the mask and sacrifice their personal life for the greater good
Miles is the perfect example a random kid who looked up to spider but my guess is miles would’ve found out his uncle was the prowler and Spider-Man would’ve accidentally kill the prowler in battle leading to miles taken revenge by taking up his uncle mantle. But instead his Changed his entire faith with the help of Peter and his father speech he took that leap of faith and also change Peter life and Gwen’s. Miles is my favorite Spider-Man and I think the best version of this character.
Honestly, I was waiting for you to upload this.
I'll only say this what a good Captain once said.
When the mob or the press or the whole world tells you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree, look them in the eyes, and say no, you move.
And miles did exactly that.
This movie is so good. You feel every emotion even somewhat anger at Miguel but you get why he does what he does. Every character your so immersed with throughout the film even Spot. Spot's life was taken away from him but a line that stood out what he said. "You know what I needed more holes." Paraphrasing but that's a real life issue. You don't create more holes to fill the void you feel about yourself. There's so many elements that can be discussed in this film and I'm glad so many people are dissecting and enjoying this film at the same time. 10/10 film. I'm seeing it one more time.
Nah I some of people are upset at Miguel but it just tells me your don’t understand him just like some don’t understand gwen, people are not use to complex characters in film nowadays Miguel not only lost his daughter twice he cause millions of others to get wipe out of existence cause is his desire to have a family, he sees himself in miles and is projecting that on him. Hopefully miles can change his perspective on things and let this man be at ease.
The definition that Hobie gives to being Spiderman is having “independence” or being in control of one’s destiny, which seems to be a contributing factor of his immediate sense of kinship with Miles, as they both value self-expression.
Miles earlier on resents his parents constantly badgering him about their expectations for him and his suspicious absences, thinking that because he is growing up and secretly a superhero, he isn’t beholden to anyone’s rules other than his own and should be allowed to decide for himself what he wants to be regardless of others opinions.
Miguel’s definition of being Spiderman is “sacrifice”, especially personal sacrifices of peace and happiness so that others may survive and prosper. Unfortunately, Miguel’s display of “canon events” flies in the face of the idea that anyone is really in charge of their fate since, to Miguel, it’s the responsible thing to let these events happen lest it risk the destruction of universes.
Mile’s insistence on being different and doing things his way is reframed as a flaw of arrogance just as much as the previous film showed it as self-actualizing confidence. He doesn’t know if saving his father would destabilize his universe or not, but still attempts to do so, choosing an irresponsible path that leaves him stranded in a heroless universe staring down the version of him that was robbed of his heroic destiny and was reinvented as a villain.
And we are left by movie’s end with two teams, Team Responsibility and Team Irresponsibility, one believing independence at the risk of recklessly causing catastrophe and the other insisting on the importance of sacrifice at the cost of becoming cruel. Both sides are fleshed out and have positive and negative aspects, leaving the audience to decide which is the correct path.
I feel like Miguel and Miles are really good parallels that didn’t get enough screen time. They’re both VERY different spider men, in almost complete opposite ways. Both are very lonely people, one motivated by guilt and anger, the other love and compassion. Ones alone through being outcasted and the other by his differences with others supposedly like him as well. I really hope in the final movie they give Miguel more screen time and more interaction with miles because I feel it’s a missed opportunity otherwise.
The writers hold out a lot of things on Miguel I think they will open the next movie with a Miguel backstory or miles 42.
I am certain we will get to see Miles and Miguel interact with one another some more in BTSV, I also feel like the writers will definitely lean more heavily into those parallels in the movie.
@@GladwinAbel They had to hold it back...Because it's going to be a plot twist and Miles 42 is going to be the actual parallel to Miguel O'Hara. As Main Miles parallels Gwen and Peter B and Uncle Aaron.
Possibly the only good the 'Spiderman Squad' has done is give each of the members a chance to relate with others who had gone through similar situations. A lot of 'hero movies' nowadays seem to have and angst phase where they feel completely alone in their situation and no one to relate their troubles to in regard to their force upon mutations. But now there's nearly a society of 'spider people' they can relate to and find solace. Sort of how battle weary soldiers only really bond with other soldiers.
Miles Morales is a great Spiderman that represents why Spiderman in general can't just let people die when he can save them. While Miles is different from others who have taken up the mantle of Spiderman, which in itself is a good thing, he shows what makes Spiderman the hero he is. The movie's version of Miguel O'Hara is one who lost sight of what it means to be Spiderman, and I honestly hope that he redeems himself in the next movie because of Miles.
I hope Miguel is redeemed too, because he's a hero who forgot what being a hero means since the death of his family.
I believe Miles will show him the way.
12:17 Miles walks a lonely road, the only one that he's ever known.
Upon watching ATSV for the third time, I realized that when Peter B. Parker reunited with Miles, he brought Mayday to meet Miles and Miguel, showed them pictures of her, and let Miguel hold the baby so that he (Miguel) would calm down and be more lenient and gentle with Miles.
While this comment section alone has pointed so many things this film so expertly explores, the thing I've personally taken away the most from this film is embodied by this single line.
"Nah, Imma do my own thing".
As someone who has always felt alone, or like an outsider because I've always tried to do my own thing, never have I felt myself resonate so much with a character before in my life than in that moment and thus has forever cemented Miles Morales and my most favourite protagonist in all of fiction.
Fr. I'm autistic. I just don't fit in, and any camouflaging/high masking effort ends up being bad for ME while other see the mask crumble and push me away because I don't fit their little frame. I love Miguel and how he's a hero so bereft with grief and guilt he lost sight of who he is and can be, but when Miles pulled the "nah, imma do my own thing", I almost wanted to cry because holy fuck yes Miles go do your thing my brave guy, because standing up to the established rules is insanely hard but I think he can pull it out. Hopefully he'll help Miguel at the same time because does that intensely depressed man need that.
@@unrulycrow6299SAME!!!! I'm neurodivergent and when Miles said this. I immediately embodied him and with him!!! He really is bright!!
I don't trust people who hate gwen after this movie. She is a 16/17 year old girl without a home and with a knowledge that her dad and her best friends dad has to die. It's normal that she doesn't tell Miles about it. The whole movie she is telling that the thing Miguel tells her to do doesn't fill right. At the end she trusts her gut and makes a "band" to save her best friend. She litterly felt he was in danger across the multiverse.
I agree. I see so many people trashing her on TH-cam and Reddit and it's really annoying. Calling her names, saying that she was never good enough for Miles or saying that Margo and Peni are better people for Miles to be in a relationship with, it's disingenuous and terrible takes all around.
I love Gwen in this movie and in the last, she's amazing and I really loved her arc in this film and I can't wait to see how she clears things up in Beyond.
??? I have not seen anyone trashing her what the fuck why would anyone do that Gwen is brilliant.
I wouldn't trust the either.
@@windghost2I can’t believe people sayin that shit about Peni or Margo unironically one is a digital person and ones like 12 💀
@@shanecorcoran2542 Peni is actually the same age as Miles. And Margo just uses an avatar to actually be at Spider-Society.
But regardless, they don't have any chemistry with Miles, Peni is Miles's friend and he just met Margo in the movie. That and he's clearly interested in Gwen.
@@windghost2 fair enough, and yeah I just don’t see them pairing Miles with anyone but Gwen
I don't think it's only the traumatic deaths that each person experiences that make them spiderman, it's the development and heart of the person. The way they overcome the obstacle. I'm sure deep down Migel has that but he's been so on the idea of the canon and his mistakes that he's become cold hearted. Great video.
I usually never say this about characters from short form stories like a movie
But I think Miles is genuinely one of the best characters out there
This movie was great. Miguel has a solid reason for trying to keep the Multiverse intact, but Miles' is thinking from a personal, emotional point of view.
Its a tale as old as time;
*Duty VS Desire*
Miguel is not suddenly a maniac he lost his daughter TWICE and cause a universe to get wipe, Spider-Man is like saitama he does his hero buisness for fun as well but Miguel takes it 100% serious cause he feels it’s his responsibility to shoulder it
Excellent video! Miguel is such a good antagonist for a movie about what makes someone Spider-Man. He represents the comic fans themselves, the people who see Peter as the “real/true” Spider-Man and see the canon events as necessary suffering that is integral to being Spider-Man, rather than them being essential to what shaped a version of Spider-Man.
Miles is Spider-Man because he essentially chooses himself in the first movie, and Miguel can’t accept that. He didn’t get where he is without going through so much pain, it’s shaped every aspect of who he is as a person. Miguel thinks suffering and still doing things “for the greater good” regardless of how much it hurts is what makes someone a hero, and Miles refuses to buy into that narrative.
Miles might be wrong, maybe his dad does need to die or the universe collapses. But he isn’t Peter and he isn’t Miguel, so maybe the things that shape Miles into his own kind of Spider-Man are completely different. Miles wants to find his own path, he paints over the suit in the first movie as a sign of him making Spider-Man his own. He shapes his canon just as much as he is shaped by it, and that’s something Miguel cannot understand or accept. He is the perfect foil to Miles, and an excellent commentary on real world comic book fans and their steadfast belief in what makes a Spider-Man.
Miles is literally the chosen one steroids because:
1.biten by a spider that came from different dimension and accidentaly bite miles
2.Uncle died and Peter parker in front of him
3 .he every spiderman trait +extra abilities or more hax
4.he thinks like a spiderman(save everyone )
2099 is fake natty and even miles questioned if he was spidey because he is opposite of everything i mention above
I love the contrast between Spider-hams "you can't save everyone" and Miguels "saving the universe vs saving one person" as with the first it's a even though you can't save everyone doesn't mean you stop trying to save someone
Peter Parker and Miles Morales are both my versions of Spider-Man.
This movie is beautiful, and I am looking forward to Beyond the Spider-Verse. I really feel like a key theme is definitely expectations and going against them. People like his parents are worried for Miles being accepted when he is different, going against the expectations of others when he wants Princeton. The Spider Society goes against Miles' expectations, and he has to make a choice on what to do when ordered to fall in line. Even Hobie, who was built as a romantic rival, went against expectations by being the best support Miles had when the Spider Society turned on him.
Here a conversation in Spiderman Edge of time that i like
Parker: Fine. I'm a nosy Parker! But now that i found out..
Miguel: it's what? my job to save her? i got enough to deal with!
Parker: you can't mean that? you just can't ignore that she's in danger.
Miguel: i'm trying to focus on what important.
Parker: what's important is not standing by and allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing.
if you don't get that. then you don't get the first thing about Spider-man
Spider-Man was never forged by tragedy. Everyone experiences tragedy it’s how we choose to react and commit to our actions. Peter chose to take revenge and realize he could have done something. Harry believed spider man killed his father and he chose to to harbor his hatred and attempt to kill his friend. Peter in return chose to not explain what happened. The point is they can choose. Gwen chose to stay behind to help stop electro and she lost her life but Peter tried with all his might to save her . Spider-Ham is right you can’t save everyone but you choose to try.
I genuinely think that the relationship between Gwen and Miles is one of my favorite romances in movie history. Their scene on clock tower is probably my favorite in the film.
It’s factually the best developed with the most nuance
Everything about that clock tower scene is perfect, I loved their relationship in the whole movie and that scene hit me in a way I never expected it would. From the cool ass upside down transition, the amazing dialogue between the two and their entire development like Miles showing why Gwen appreciates him so much, by being different and breaking from the norm
Facts the writers really love these characters they character imo this miles is the best Spider-Man out of all other versions of himself, they made me love gwen, they made Peter Parker happy for once, they made a underrated villains popular. Some of the side characters they use as comedic but it’s not that bad like Ben Reilly. It was more of a joke too tbh
Yes I always thought gwen pity miles and I’m part 1 they were just friends but she’s generally impressed by him, he’ll miles is my favorite character as well too. Their bond is special and it just shows how determined miles was to save his parents by cutting gwen off. Obviously he didn’t want to, he couldn’t even look her in the eyes when he said she was right about her not coming to see him.
Everyone keeps Telling me how my story is supposed to go nha ima do my Things -Miles Morales Spiderman
I have been swimming in analysis videos of this films over the last week and a bit, but have been eagerly waiting to hear you specifically talk about it, and you did not disappoint. Its been so amazing seeing so many people give this film all the love it deserves!
ATSV came out at the perfect time for me, as I’m going to university in September, so seeing miles discussing his itinerary with his parents was relatable, especially since he will have to continue his journey without them being close to him.
This was a really good analysis, sage rain, which isn’t surprising coming from you.
I say both sides are right about being Spiderman. Yes being Spiderman isn't an easy happy job. The path to be a hero is filled with pain and struggle. Spiderman has gone through many heartaches, tragedies and experienced a lot of trauma. But all those things made him who is but tragedy isn't all Spiderman is.
Yes Spiderman always finds a way to save people but he can't save everyone. The job requires sacrifice but that's not all he has to be.
Miguel O'Hare was my favourite character in this movie. He's so fascinating and complex he's not an evil villain trying to take over the multiverse. Miguel is just trying to do what he thinks is the right thing.
Sony will NEVER fully give up the rights to Spider-Man, it’s hilarious how they tell Marvel Studios/Disney "we’ll let you borrow him from time to time, but he’s ours".
thank goodness for that
Why would they?
I appreciate how they would rather own 1 IP and do the best they can with it rather than acquire every possible IP and fumble all of them.
@@stacie1595It's why Disney needs to be broken up and IP law needs reform so that we don't get tired retreads every few years just to maintain copyright and trademark.
@@doomsdayrabbit4398 couldn't agree more!
I personally despise cake eaters people who think they can have it all with no consequence but in this case I actually want to see Miles try. I want to see him save his father and prevent the destruction of the multiverse in the least contrived way
Because usually people who wants their cake and wants to eat it too are doing it for unjustifiable selfish reasons. Miles literally just wants to save the multiverse AND save his dad. It's selfish, yes, because it could risk the destruction of the multiverse, but who can blame him for wanting his dad to live? This time it's actually justifiable.
this is a wonderful video essay! the core of Spider-Man is that he perseveres and tries no matter what. Even if Miles isn't successful in saving his world and his family because Spider-Man typically doesn't get a happy ending when it comes to being able to accomplish both tasks, he will definitely persevere after the fact, and that is what is powerful about the character.
Across the Spiderverse is the perfect Progressive/Woke film. Great representation, animation, music, characters, and story!!
Love that in this film, they turned the initial reaction of some Spiderman Fans when Miles was introduced into a plot. "Not my Spiderman" they said.
Miles was never supposed to be Spiderman but he did, and for me, that makes him the Best Spiderman. Can't wait for the finale!
See miles is a wanna be Peter Parker in the comics but hear he’s became his own character
How is this film “woke”? Why is a black Latino Spider-Man woke to you as if that wasn’t already a canon character
I saw this movie weeks ago and I can safely say that this is one of the pieces of media where that I can see both perspectives on the conflict at hand.
This is 100% an idea I took from other people, but I like to think Hobie fully intended to rebel against the spider society before he even met Miles. It was really him encouraging Miles to fight the system rather than the other way around, and the biggest evidence of that is what he's actually doing at that point of the film. All of Miles's friends from the first movie are trying to reason with him and Miguel, solve the issue with words rather than fighting. But then there's Hobie who shows up, steals shit to make his own watch, makes sure Miles can escape the trap he probably knew was coming, and then quits as soon as the actual fighting began. Man when "aight, my work here is done" and peaced out, lol.
Now that you said it, his character road is similar to Asta in Black Clover.
He was never supposed to exist, yet here he stands because he chose to.
I feel like this title’s sentiment is a lot stronger in the first film, especially when considering the closing monologue that explains “anyone can wear the mask”
Personally this movie make me think more about what kind of Spider-Man he wants to become
One thing that strikes me about Miles as an “anomaly” is how Miles in the other universe was meant to be Spiderman. So what are the odds that miles in another universe is bitten by that spider. Why not someone else?
There's a lot of parallels between miles and where the mcu spiderman is at currently, they're both in incredibly isolated places. Miles in a dimension that isn't his and Tom holland whos identity has been forgotten by everyone including those he loved and could confide in
i just pressed play and i already know i’m gonna be thinking about what’s said in this video for the rest of the week
Hobbie is not just a Love Rival, but the Next Big Mentor and Best Friend for Miles to Learn. He Could be the Big Bro. Miles Never Expect and the Kammina of this Series.
So I'm 28. I grew up with the 90's spider-man cartoon, played spider-man on N64, watched the Sam Raimi Spider-man trilogy atleast 5 times, as well as many other things minus reading the comics up to the present. However, I don't think I understood why spider-man works as a hero. The x-men is about race, batman(for the most part) does the right thing even when its hard, super man is the symbol for hope. For spider-man, I like him and always will, but could never describe him in just a few words as I did with the others. Not until I saw spider-verse 1 when it came out.
I knew who miles was before then but that was it. I never knew his personality. Honestly, as a black man, I was just happy to see him take up the title. Seeing spider-verse 1 hit both miles character and what it meant to be spider-man for me. "Anyone can be spider-man". Your name doesn't have to be peter, parker, marry jane, gwen stacy, shoot even aunt may. Miles is a kid from Brooklyn with this "great power, great responsibility" suddenly thrust upon him. Took him a bit, but he did his "leap of faith" and accepted his role as a super hero. If there was a kid out there right now who suddenly got bit by a radio-active spider, this would be their story. Yes you can say that about any spider-man iteration, but miles might as well be a new character in the spider-man lore. Who knew who miles, spider-punk, or Indian spider-man was if you weren't into the comic books before these movies? But you knew those other names right?
I'm sorry for the long rant and most of that was just on the first movie. But I did watch the whole video and I get spider-verse 2, for miles, is about breaking the path this set for him and spider-man even. But for me, with my own interpretation of spider-verse 1 and 2 for that matter, being deserving of the spider-man title means doing what no one else could. "Its up to me" "nah I'mma do my own thing".
Man I hope these spider-verse movies give more opptunities to bring other spider-man into the spotlight for the general public. I'll even take spider-man OCs if the story is good enough. Again, thank you for reading. I know it was alot.
This was a great read.
@@windghost2 Thank you. c:
@@DSoulA3 👊🏾
"It's not criminal to be an individual." Marco Diza (SVTFOE). You go Miles make your own path & don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Spider-Man doesn't give up, "You're the best of all of us Miles, your on your way just keep going."
Loneliness effects us all it can make us feel small. The film does a great job at explaining how complex loneliness is as a concept.
His father must die because the universe MIGHT tear itself to shreds if he doesn't. Even though the universe should have turned itself to shreds when he was bitten by the spider meant for Earth 42.
the spider-verse is basically a compilation of webs so who is the proverbial spider spinning these webs? who decides that the police captain's death is a must.
Miguel has forgotten what made Spiderman a hero. He has forgotten everyone he's learned, and because of that, his ignorance will be the end of everything
One of a handful of movies where the sequel is better than the original.
Anyone who wants to do the right thing and tries to use their great power to build and help others to the best of their ability and is willing to sacrifice personal happiness for the sake of others (to an extent of course) deserves to be Spider-Man
To add on to this point Stan Lee even squids the reason Spider-Man’s identity shouldn’t stay public and he gave him a mask is because anyone can be Spider-Man, anyone can step up to help others and be a hero big or small
The way I see it, if Miguel is wrong, Miles and his universe will live, if Miguel is right though, everyone dies
Talk about nailing it. In this trend of defining yourself, by your trauma is unhealthy. It’s this failure to heal and move on is what’s truly preventing all these guys from reaching their fullest potential. Their guilt made them do something really stupid. It made them betray their friend. Good to know that they’ve learned the error of their ways, but damn. They have a lot of apologies to deliver. Not to mention I can’t help but relate.. Dealt with something similar.
Amazing Video, I didn’t think to much about Miles’ arc in this movie but now that I’m thinking about it. His is tragic but at the same time hopeful. The spark that he gives people to try. Peter B. to try and get back M.J. Gwen to go off on her own and start her own band. It’s beautiful. But at the same time he’s currently on his own. Like all spiders end up.
That's was a wonderful breakdown..
"There's this inherent loneliness when it comes to the idea of Spider-Man.
All of the Spider-Men introduce themselves as the 'one and only Spider-Man.' This idea that, on the most grounded level, Spider-Man is the sole hero of New York.
And he has to ultimately juggle this incredible responsibility, juggle the few friends that they have, their personal life, and most of the time they don't tell anybody about it, out of fear of getting others involved, hurt, and/or in Miles case, fear of the repercussions."
That's what the writers for Invincible, NEVER THOUGH OF when race-swapping Amber from the comics.
In addition, I would say it’s principal line goes thru the necessity of approbation and acceptation that we develop as we got older, but clearly movie invites to forget this necessity and be yourself, taking risks, breaking cannon events and follow our own way
The more time has passed after I watched this movie for the first time, the more I realise how valuable is the message of rebelling to the idea everyone has about Spiderman
Oh shit he doing spiderverse, SPECTACULAR !!!
You could argue that Uncle Ben's death is the sacrosanct event necessary to make Spider-Man Spider-Man
True, but it wasn't JUST Uncle Ben dying that made him Spider Man( if we're talking about og origin story of Spider Man/ Peter Parker). It was the Realization of WHO took Uncle Bens life. By recognizing the man that murdered his uncle was the same man that robbed and rushed his handler, he realized how devastating his own actions were, and could be to others, if he didn't step in and help.
Yeah. Peter Parker, at least in the beginning, didn't have a natural heroic desire like Superman or Steve Rogers. So he needed a catalyst to get him to change his ways.
In terms of miles trying to defy his destiny, it reminds me of how Naruto defied his destiny
Beautiful video Sage. I think while everyone is trying to predict the outcome of this movie, I'm just wholly focused on the character Miles has and IS becoming.
They say that the righteous path is always the hardest and even though some decisions MIGHT have alot at stake, it should never stop you from doing the right thing, or even trying to. Miles is that spiderman who is going to try. While everyone is obsessed with not saving certain people because its a written "canon event" or that there might be an off chance that the universe would perish if they do, Miles is the spiderman who is going to take it upon himself to be the hope for those who apparently "have to" perish.
No way home encompasses this so well. Even if its the fate for the villians to perish, if yoi were given that chance to challenge that fate, would you not take it? And thats what Spider Holland did and saved everyone, even his natural enemies.
Why? As stated by Tobey Maguires spiderman: "Its what we do".
Whatever the outcome of the final movie, Miles has already cemented his legacy as The Amazing Spider-Man. And that he'll come home to his family with a "properly baked cake". The way I see it as well...Miles has the right like any other Spider-Man, to fight for what he wants and loves in his life. For his family, his friends, and even Gwen. Look at what he did for Peter, for Privakhir, and, probably what he'll do for Gwen.
He deserves to be the Spider-Man who will try and fight with everything he has. To be the last bit of hope in every Spider-Mans story. In a world where Gwen cannot fall in love without a bad ending, Miles might just give her a good one. No matter what the story is for EVERYONE else, its the hope that should fuel all of these choices. To take that leap of faith regardless of the script.
The hope of a good ending is something that is devoid in the spider society. Its written that they will all suffer and that they will all lose someone they love no matter what they do...so why bother fighting? Its "written". To us, its the script, to Miles however...well...."theres a first time for everything, right?"
And for Miles sake, since hes the only one willing to try, willing to fight for it, I hope he gets that good ending.
I loved this movie it gave me everything I ever wanted and seeing my girl mayday Parker spidergirl finally adapted in animation makes me so happy that I am super excited to see more of her in the future also yay seeing Miles Morales Spider-Man and spidergwen become a couple in the future is really awesome that I cannot wait for beyond the spiderverse it’s going to be amazing at least in my opinion, also another bonus seeing miles morales Spider-Man prove everyone they are wrong is really awesome and of course another thing i love about this movie is that i got to see peter parker and mary jane have there daughter mayday parker spider-girl and having her help her dad made me so happy that i cannot wait to see her and spider-Gwen try to save Miles Morales is going to be really awesome and badass in my opinion.
Since seeing it, I've felt conflicted over the cliffhanger ending, how quickly the Spider Sanctum turns on him, and the whole idea of "the canon." But then you reminded me of who Miles Morales is in this story. Into was a story about Miles finding his own way to become Spider-Man. Across is about putting his way to the test, against everything we know to be Spider-Man. Thanks as always for your perspective, Sage!
About the Spider Society and Canon thing I believe that Miguel doesn't actually know what he's talking about however I believe that he has manipulated and lied to the entire Spider Society about the Canon in order to instill fear in them, the Spider Society turned on Miles because they were scared of what Miguel believed Miles could do to several Universes despite the fact that Miles is not an anomaly at all. I believe that in the end Miguel has created a lie that even believes to be the reason that can cause universes to collapse.
Theory: The "canon" event that Miguel broke is due to he running away from his responsibility. We can see that Gwen's dad broke his fate by embracing the difficulty of embracing the truth that his daughter is Spidergwen.
so beautiful
Good choice with the sad fire emblem music
I like that you delve even deeper into this film and that’s what makes this film great that miles goes against the grain and does things his own way
Yes so happy your talking about this movie!!! The definition of Masterpiece!
everytime i watch a video of yours i just don’t want it to stop man this is phenomenal your work your art the way you really break down things it’s just amazing man. I really connected with Miles in this movie man i’ve watched this movie like 3 times already and i want to go see it again. your content is real special man i appreciate the hours and effort you put into this Sage.
Was waiting for your take on this movie! It was so fire bruh 🔥
This video... is just simply beautiful.
When you mentioned the heartbreak miles felt when he just wanted to meet his friends, and peter B and gwen sold him out
I remember a edit I saw of that clip just highlighting the pain and betrayal he felt on that scene.
I really like how the first movie focuses on the men in miles’ life and the second one focuses on the women in his life (the intro of this video made me realize that)
Excellent video and analysis 👌🏾
Exactly how I felt thank you for putting this out into the world.
I don't know half the shows you essay but I watch every video. Keep swimming brother
Great breakdown of the film. Only thing I disagree with is his friends have deserted him by the end of the film. Gwen has realized she was wrong for not being by Miles side when he needed her and she along with Peter B are ready to redeem themselves in the next film. Gwen now understands Miles way of being is the right way to live. She's ready to take her leap of faith
It doesn’t matter how many Spider-Mans there are. As long as all of them stay true to themselves and fight against crime for justice, they all should be able to embrace the arachnid persona.
Such beautiful films deserve love.
Can’t wait to watch another one of these amazingly well crafted videos
YESSSSS I've been waiting for a Sage video about Spider verse since I saw the movie. Absolutely wonderful as always!!
I think Miguel is the living proof is, for "In how extension someone is worthy and deserves to be Spiderman?" Like, even failed, troubled and morally gray individuals can be Spiderman? How this can apply to a person which his ideology, perspective and beliefs are not only different but rather antagonistic to what Peter had stablished in this duty?
Is becoming Spiderman also a spiritual and character journey to change for the best or just an endless cycle of suffering?
For the sake of peoples that don't quite deserve your services or enemies that you should bring to justice(which your justice being them dying), Miles sees his Spider Powers more a gift/blessing rather than a curse/burden like Miguel sees, after all, in one side we have a kid that has everything to lose and other is a individual that while doesn't have anything to lose, the whole multiverse is counting on him to stop something bigger to destroy the lifes of not only other Spidermans, but zillions of peoples in each Earths.
So yeah, Miguel by some extension has also counter arguments to Rio's Perspective, I know you are being selifsh for the sake of your own Wolf Pack, but, is it truly worthy let not only other peoples but places to be shattered because what you are supposed to do to not make other peoples die, is let your kid grow to become a man and face the pain of loss, after all, he's a Spiderman, it's what came with the job, suffering.
Spiderman is defined by his perseverance on struggling and suffering but still rising from it until he can do the right thing and not fail again.
Both Miles and Miguel are trying to do it, but by two different positions, persevering in what they believe is right and to what they judge is better for anyone, the thing is, which ideology will prevail in the end
Spiderman ATSV is truly a family film. There's this running motif around family. Miles has his mom and dad, Gwen has her dad, Peter B Parker has become a dad and was inspired by Miles, Miguel lost his family trying to be a dad in another universe, Spiderwoman is going to be a mom and Gwen asks to be adopted by her. Miles even helps Aunt May out long after Peter passed. The whole "canon events" thing is a fun meta narrative on how fans validate characters and force every comic character into the same boxes.
Spiderman doesn't necessarily have to be Peter Parker or white, but does Spiderman really need to go through all that torture and trauma to be who he is? As someone that has grown up with both parents in the household, I find it funny how every manga or comic book superhero has to lose their parents somehow. I'm really glad Spiderverse is getting its flowers and I can't wait for BTSV.