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Don't Believe Miguel O'Hara's Lies...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
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0:00 - Intro
0:40 - The game is afoot
4:15 - The devil is in the details
5:55 - The smoking gun (maybe)
7:24 - End
Twitter: / apieceofmedia_
MUSIC:
Alexandre Brovelli - Black Vertigo
Jonathan Cotton - Eternity
Jonathan Cotton - Gaslight
Daniel Pemberton - The Prowler
Daniel Pemberton - Spider-Man 2099 (Miguel O'Hara)
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My guess is miguel genuinely believes his theory due to his PTSD
He believes it due to PTSD and his research.
And the fact that other Spider-men have experienced the same thing, especially the death of Uncle Ben or Captain Stacey. Even Gwen knows other versions of herself "didn't end well" when they fell for their Spiderman (implying death or a terrible breakup). So Miguel might've assumed that each Spider-verse should experience more or less the same event to meet the canonicity. He may have used that bias to create an algorithm that predicts all the possible canon events that makes Spiderman "Spiderman".
@@Greybell He did say that there's good canon events as well. He also never said they all had the same canon events; just most of them. Miguel himself, doesn't have any of the same canon events as most other Spiders. Same with Jess, Gwen, Peni, SupaidaMan, etc.
@@blackmanwithcomputer True, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it's a cult that validates pain and suffering and justifies it with canon events.
@@windghost2 It's not a cult lol. He's not validating pain, but rather saving the multiverse. He's dealt with more than the 2 destabilization events we saw in the movie. He's not even enthusiastic about being surrounded by anyone besides Jessica. Miguel didn't want to recruit Gwen, despite being prime cult material.
i feel like there were so many parts of the film hinting towards the fact that miguel is not correct
On the first watch-through, you don't realize any of it. But rewatching it, you can see every flaw in the explanation for canon events. I don't understand how the writers even did that. It's kind of incredible.
Miguel's and Pav's canon events might just be a coincidence and miguel toom it to heart. I think miguel's "canon event" is just the consequences of the final fight back in the first movie where the collider is going haywire and pav's canon event only seem to be destroying itself because the spot was recently there. And the huge hole that appeared looks like spot's spot, which should also be just a consequence of their fight earlier. Gwen's dad broke the canon event by quitting and her universe didnt explode or anything. Which I conclude that Miguel's story is just a tragic coincidence of the previous events
@@pisaschitt787miguel is weird. That is all
I just thought of this, tell me if im wrong.
If miles's spider wasnt supposed to bite him, obviously, thats not a canon event. But according to miguel, in every spiders story, someone has to die. Miles's uncle died, which makes that canon, so my question is, can a canon event be created?
Edit: A person that replied to me also made a valid point about this ^^
Edit 2: also although uncle aaron's death was still canon, if miles isn't originally spiderman, then none of the events that aren't originally from a "spiders story", technically, nothing related to miles's life associated with being spiderman is not canon.
@@viiannathe thing is… the one who does is the most important person for the spider person at the time… and His uncle Aaron was it for that time. But if you see closely The death of the uncle didn’t serve that much for Miles to become more mature (technically taking his job As almost a joke soon leading to his father dying due to him being a police officer)
Another detail to consider, would Peter B. Parker having Mayday as a result of his bond with Miles not be breaking the canon in some way too? If Miles is an anomaly, and subsequently anything he influences is anomalous too, would that have not caused MANY other canon-breakings, taking into account the butterfly effect? Sorry for so many comments haha, this is just super interesting to me and I'm glad you've made a video pointing this out.
nah, miles didn't directly contribute to the creation of Mayday. It is likely that Peter would've gotten back with MJ one way or another
@@alt1898 Not really the only reason he went back to try again with MJ is because of miles. He realized from training miles and being proud of him that he actually wants to have a kid and that parenting can be rewarding.
@@Oreocakesters123he said exactly that even in the movie
@@Oreocakesters123nah he would have went back to her regardless.
@@Oreocakesters123mayday had a symbiote infused clone.
Her cannon even is being cloned.
Her fusing with a symbiote without it being a clone is non-cannon to her.
4:34 As well as this, that one interaction between Gwen and Miguel after Miles successfully escaped back to his original universe seems quite suspicious. When she asks Miguel something along the lines of "Do you even know for certain what would happen if he broke the canon?" and Miguel gets all defensive, while not actually answering her question.
I don't think this interaction went as you described.
@@cagegames4755oh yes it does. After she asks the question Miguel says: “you wanna find out?” an obvious threat.
@@kingpinpasta2934 That is actually.a good answer. But I am pretty sure this didn't happen after Miles went to earth 42. And it is not like op described that is not a threat lol.
What I just described is exactly what happened when Gwen questioned him. He also marches toward while his eyes are glowing red causing her to step back in fear. Watch the movie again and you’ll see i’m right
@@cagegames4755 Actually, it happened *nearly immediately* after Miles went to Earth 42. In fact, that's part of why it happened: Miguel was angry because the Go Home machine successfully teleported Miles, not realizing Miles went to Earth 42 by accident, and he sent Gwen back to her universe both because of that anger and because he was fed up with her.
Knowing that Miguel’s life was filled with traumatizing events from comics, I feel like he’s just trying to find a reason why all of those bad situations happened to him. It’s easier for him and for other spiders to believe that all of those terrible events happened because they were supposed to happen, that it was their fate. So Miguel is definitely wrong. I wonder how he’s going to react to him being wrong and if he’s going to help Miles. It would have been kinda cool if Miguel was the one to save Miles’s dad as a redemption or something.
i mean how do you explain the canon events? not every spider man would just be like oh thats supposed to happen? without no evidence or not without a lot of people believing them as well. remember when pavitars universe was collapsing all the spider people handled it very professionally almost as if they had been doing it before
Except from narratively and metawise he's completely right in not wanting to gamble with 7 billion lives and that 616 Spider-Man literally would not be Spider-Man if it weren't for Uncle Ben getting shot
@@handledeeznutslmao the whole movie of ATSV is about standing out and going against the norm and doing your own thing and being different but did Miles really do that if he did something everybody (audience) could get behind and sided with him and shit on Miguel?
Also I love how Spider-Man fans say Miguel is completely wrong and unreasonable but would hate any spider-man adaptation in which uncle Ben lived and didn’t die, and fans wanted MCU Peter to suffer consequences and loss and not have it all/the easy way out, and would NWH and PS4 be as popular as they were if Aunt May didn’t die?
A lot of people that just shit on Miguel are blinded by their emotional hormones and lack any rational intelligence and can’t consider the other side and only see black and white and can’t see that neither side is completely right or wrong
Spider-Man fans do not want to be wrong and always want to be right and on the winning side
Miguel is meant to represent the Spider Man fandom as a whole. directors pointed out that this idea of the canon acts as a critique of spiderfans who act as though all Spider-Men have to go through the same "canon" moments. And that any adaptation that doesn't is "an anomaly" or wrong and is treated harshly. It sounds like Spider-Man fans are projecting their self absorbed and insecure demands onto Miguel and don’t want to be wrong
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 the fucking irony of you bitching about spider-man fans projecting their insecurity with a holden caufield pfp and also bitching about how miguel is the correct one while complaining about binary morality is astounding. Those in glass houses should not throw stones.
@@Pinakiprime910I guess the canon events are right but maybe miles being bit by the 42 spider meant he’s safe
One thing i don't see many people talking about is how when Miguel's world is crumbling it glitches/turns into glass as you said, but when Pavitr's World there was a big black hole, and i think this is because of the spot because before they go there Miles' mind gets "taken over" by the spot revealing his future, but i think he was also changing cannon. That's just my theory.
I agree with this, mainly because we can see the black hole forming from the spot. The black hole comes from the alchemax building that was falling after the spot used the collider. You can see it spread around the pieces of the building that ends up falling under the bridge, after the Spot uses the collider
The hole started appearing in the place the body of The uncle of Pavitr was supposed to be when he died…
@@fersho450no it doesn’t. They’re standing on a bridge. The spot originates way below them
Your theory? Miles literally said it was Spot in the movie lmao many people believe this
In the beginning, Gwen's world starts glitching the longer Vulture is active. Mumbattan glitched the same way.
If you look closely at the scene where that Earth glitches out of existence, there are multiple spider-man trying to save people. Also, the spider-man you believe to be the original spider-man of that Earth is wearing a wristband, the same kind of wristband used to prevent people from glitching. This means that spider-man is apart of Miguel's spider society
It's our Peter B. Parker. While explaining the supposed ramifications of breaking the canon he looks to Peter B. and says "isn't that right Peter?" and Peter solemnly agrees.
@@betablue5952I thought the same thing too
@@rgal69it was blatantly shown I’m pretty sure. They show Peter B Parker in that scene without his mask at one point
Yes, Peter B and several other Spider-Men are present during the destruction of the universe in Miguel's backstory, meanin in the most generous light possible Miguel had already established the Spidey team to at least some degree before he decided to leave his original universe for a new one, it began to fall apart and he was able to get a call out for help to the team who came to his aid. Meaning Miguel already had a wrist band to stop himself and others from glitching, which suggests that the wrist band isn't enough to "preserve the canon" which means every universe where some Spidey travels would fall apart just like this bs lie he is telling he is not to be trusted
@@nathanstruble2177don't forget we see him recruiting in the post credit scene of the first film so that means it didn't happen yet he didn't know Peter B. either and they were shown together in the considering world so yeah something's off
My take is not that Miguel is hiding anything per se, though if he was, I'd say what he's hiding was that he doesn't completely know how the Multiverse works or is even sure how it can break. You pretty much pointed out my suspicion on what canon HE broke when he went to that other universe. Plus it was hinted that even he doesn't know what'll happen for sure if a canon is broken, cause when Gwen asked him, he only answered "Do you want to find out". That's not a yes or a no. I think Miguel still has some stuff to learn about the multiverse but is literally to scared to try anything to break a canon without destroying a dimension. So he just stopped looking into possible solutions, and kept it a secret to everyone to keep any other Spider-man from taking risks like Miles is. Basically he kept them hopeless and hold a fatalist mentality.
Spot on. Then again you can’t really blame him - any test to see how the canon events work can ultimately result in destroying said universe where the test was being performed. That’s a lot of life wiped away, possibly multiple times just to get the gist of it. Miguel is a Spiderman after all, clearly he’d wouldn’t take such an approach.
Miguel already answered the question of what would happen if a canon broke when Miles asked him.
@@Yedolf-0638 but it makes no sense considering Miles is an anomaly and his world wasn’t destroyed
@@Yedolf-0638 Answered, but that doesn't neccessarily mean true or right. Hell we still don't even know what was it that Miguel did to break the canon in the dimension he injected himself in. It's weirdly vague.
Isn’t known that if the canon breaks this leads to the multiverse collapsing and Everyone dying?
I was also thinking that for couple of reasons:
1) Saving someone's father is not the same caliber as HIJACKING SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE, tho dead persons life, he still took this version of Miguel personal life.
2) Miguel kinda acts like a Kingpin from the previous movie. He want to have HIS HAPPY LIFE, which leads to the catastrophic results.
3) And the biggest one....if by Miguel's logic events can't be changed...then He and Jess Drew shouldn't have help Gwen with her problems and Miguel shouldn't have taken every other Spider-man from every dimension, and by all acounts disrupting the CANON BECAUSE THEY SHOULDN'T INTERACT BY HIS LOGIC!
So yeah....something is definitely fishy here. But here's my take....Miguel is just misguided, he just doesn't understand how Multiverse works. I feel moral of Beyond The Spider-Verse will be that Multiverse works in mysterious ways and it's not algorithm coded and designed to work as intended by one person. Miguel will realize that small changes are okay, but larger and selfish ones are the ones what causes the collapse of the world. As MJ said to Peter B. "There's no playbook, you just need to make so adjustments in half-time". I feel her speach was clue what outcome will be......
Isnt miles more like kingpin? Risking the lives of billions to save his family (or in miles case his dad) just a theory
@@C0astinG4mer Well....not exactly. Miles doesn't want to bring his other family from another universe, doesn't want to live in other Miles'es life because Aaron Davis is there alive, he just want to save his dad in his own universe that's it. Yeah it's kinda selfish, but Kingpin and Miguel were worse in that count. There needs to be a limit with everything and I believe that's what moral of the story will be. But we'll see what these geniuses have instored for us 😉
@@thehedgehognerd true but miles still partially fits in that role that’s all I’m saying it’s not exact of course
@@C0astinG4mer Yeah....kinda from a certain point of view......😉
@@C0astinG4mer The problem with the idea that Miles and Miguel are just on opposing sides of a trolley problem is that Miles risking the universe is predicated on him violating his canon event by being there to save his father. However, Miguel was very specific when he said that the event took place "during a battle with an archnemesis." This means that by trying to hold Miles in the spider society and out of his own universe, he's risking the canon as well. You could even argue that Miguel poses a greater risk to the canon here, because the death of the police captain is something that Spiderman is meant to want to prevent, but is simply unable to because he can't be everywhere at once in battle.
EDIT: In fact, I think going home to fight Spot in the attempt to save his father's life might be the course of action most in line with the canon event Miles has available to him. It's slightly clouded by the meta knowledge of canon events, but for the event to play out properly Miles needs to be there fighting Spot, and then he is destined to _fail_ to save his father, not necessarily to intentionally sacrifice him.
4:52 A very reasonable detail to consider, especially since in ITSV, when Miles meets the original Spiderman in his universe and their spidey-senses pick up on eachother, the colour scheme that surrounds Miles switches from a green and purple colour scheme(teasing the fact he was originally meant to be the Prowler in this universe) to a blue and red one, a visual indicator of the course of his life changing from that point onwards. Despite this, ITSV has no mention of Miles EVER being or being destined to become the Prowler, and this was only revealed in the next movie, ATSV.
I heard that a creator confirmed that our Miles wasn't meant to be the prowler.
The only reason Earth 42's Miles became the prowler was because of the lack of spiderman and insane crime rate.
@@ZoovaHmm from a narrative pov it would’ve made more sense for Miles to become the next prowler - he’s very close with his uncle and were his uncle to die at some point in a confrontation w Spiderman, Miles would resent the hero and carry on the prowler mantle w resentment in his mind.
Yeah thats a whole canon event that got disrupted in itself, shouldn't earth 42 have at least a few holes?
@@LoveAIChatGPTMoneyMaking23 Shouldn't Earth 1610B have fallen apart months ago? The "real" spider man died
@@Liguehunters exactly
I don’t think that Miguel is intentionally lying, but I think he’ll realize in the next movie that his canon theory is flawed and ultimately wrong.
He’s misguided in his thinking because he’s taking “ with great power, comes great responsibility “ to an extreme level. Which actually is a very spider-man thing to do. Peter does it all the time in the comics
Difference being Peter doesn't stop trying.
@@mikejeffers4988 Miguel isn’t quitting either, at least in his mind. That’s exactly why he won’t listen to Miles. As far as he’s concerned, if it turns out that Miles is right then that means that everything Miguel and the spider squad have done was for nothing. The people of the original Miguel’s universe died in vain. That thought has to be in the back of Miguel’s mind now after his confrontation with Miles,especially since the “ anomaly” outsmarted him and his entire team. That’s making Miguel even more determined
@@Dhampir101980 determined or more sloppy? He sent a team of Spideys to their deaths just so he can chase Miles who's less insignificant in the grand scheme of things than The Spot.
THANK YOU
This is literally the point.
Miguel’s assumptions are flawed and disproven entirely by what we saw in ITSV. but only now are the cracks in the ideology starting to show, why else would hobie help miles? He was never on board with a system or authority. Also if you look at one of the posters for ATSV it shows Miguel’s side and Miles’ side which gives me a feeling that other will eventually defect as well.
Also when I say “ideology” I mean the Idea that Spider-Man must always have the same story and it must not be deviated from, which goes against the very concept of the spider-verse.
@@OogaBooga24723 yup. Exactly. Miguel is fixated on “ Canon “ that he’s unwilling to accept Miles or even give him a chance to demonstrate how he can be unique and still be considered as Spidey. It’s a meta commentary on how the fandom originally reacted when Miles was first introduced( and in some ways, still does even today).
i think you've got many sound ideas, it is very likely miguel is wrong, some people believe what happened in numbattan isn't even the canon breaking, but perhaps spots causing it to happen, it would also make more sense given how it looks, versus what happened in Miguel's case.
when i can't follow along, is when you correlate Miguel with Prowler, although it's clear it was on purpose for their themes to resemble each other, maybe even the colors in those brief frames, i only believe it's because they both served as side antagonists, and Miguel is, in a way, the fight Miles never directly had with Aaron, at least physically.
but not only because of those things, but because you mentioned this correlation by also linking it to Miguel getting more upset at him being doubted to be a spiderman, and that's, honestly, i think because of insecurity. simply as that. see, the way Miguel gets his powers, in the comics, isn't by being bitten by a spider, but instead, by having his DNA modified with the spiderman genes; because this was tech still in development and without much testing, it didn't come out "quite right," instead he doesn't have spider sense, but has organic webbing that comes out of the top of his wrists, talons on the front of his fingers, and fangs that can inject venom; you can see why it is possible he'd feel insecure, or whatever else, that would make him angrier, as he is very, very different; and in fact, it's almost hypocrite of him to be so upset at miles for being an "anomaly" given that he is as well.
i think he is wrong, but i don't think he's lying; he's not evil, he's a spiderman after all, he doesn't want harm, he genuinely means what he's trying to do, but his grief and pain is blinding him. he probably doesn't really understand if fully, which would make sense, after all the web we see there is the web of life and destiny, and it's far more complex than he thinks it is, and not as easy to break either. look it up, whole thing went down in the comics before this movie!
neat video!
I agree, the second point is an absolute shot in the dark lol.
Exactly! His main conflict is with himself, the reason he has shifted to the role of antagonist is because he just gave up hope. He tried over an over but he eventually gave up, he's a Spider-Man who didn't get back up, because he thinks it's better off that way. It's truly sad, and compelling, and I wonder how this arc of his will be resolved in the sequel.
@@A-Champ on the topic of his conflict with himself, if you listen back to what he says to Miles after Miles asks if he’s sure he’s Spider-Man, everything he says can be applied to himself.
“Everywhere you go you’re an anomaly” not being in your dimension automatically makes you an anomaly. This applies to Miguel as well.
“You’re a mistake” Miguel is the result of a failed experiment. He is a mistake that constantly needs to inject himself.
“You’re not supposed to be Spider-Man” Miguel wasn’t either. He tried to replicate Pete’s power and failed.
“You’re just a kid who has no idea what he’s doing” Miguel has absolutely no idea how the multiverse actually works and is just making shit up to soothe his consciousness.
He tells himself the deaths of these people are necessary and it’s likely he also tells himself that if him accidentally erasing an entire universe leads to him “saving” the multiverse then it was justified in the end. In his mind anyway which is likely why Miles defying him leads to a psychotic breakdown
@@emancules
" “You’re not supposed to be Spider-Man” Miguel wasn’t either. He tried to replicate Pete’s power and failed. "
no , he was made addicted to a very addictive drug by his boss to make him not be able to quit his job , so he just decide to edit his genes to a prior state since the drug changed his DNA , but a co-worker attempted to kill miguel by adding spider DNA and turning the machine up to 11. he got spider powers out of that.
@@chongwillson972 source? I’ve heard his origin story like 10 times and not a single one sounded anything remotely like that. And regardless that still sounds like a failed science experiment
I've also heard quite a few theories about Lyla being the one lying to Miguel, and subsequently, all the other spider-people about canon events. After all, she's the one providing Miguel with much of the information there is to know about the multiverse. Perhaps, she's hacked or is being manipulated by an outer force, or has somehow gained sentience.
Or you know, because Miguel is the one who made her program in regards to the whole "Canon event" indentification system.. it has the same flaws as Miguel's viewpoint because it identifies canon events from the same flawed Perspective as Miguel's. Kinda like if you're trying to calculate something and you messed up on one of the numbers in the formula somewhere along the lines, all the answers you'll get until you realize the error will be wrong.
@@cirnotheicefairy3609she became sentient to a certain point tho. Yet I can’t see her lying to Miguel
@@fersho450 becoming sentient doesn't matter if you're still seeing everything from the same perspective as Miguel. If you cannot perceive your own mistakes, that you are wrong, you won't know it until it hits you right in the face.
@@fersho450that wouldn’t change how she view things. All her data is still reliant on the info Miguel gave her
She's already sentient, you're thinking of sapience.
Well there’s also the fact that Miguel doesn’t have a daughter in actual comic canon… he had a son. There is concept art in the art book of Miguel’s son but they switched it out for a daughter. If I wanna go on a limb here and say that if Miguel dying and not being a Spider person was that important… his death might be his daughter’s canon event… his daughter might have been that universe’s Spider person but bc Miguel never died she never became a Spider person
That's sooooo interesting
Ooh, that's an interesting theory. I can't wait to see how they explain it in the next film, but something along these lines would be satisfying.
Few things that aren't working too:
1-Why is a canon event happening in Mumbattan because of the Spot? I mean the police officer was about to die *because of someone who shouldn't have been there*. Does that means that Spot is part of the canon?
2-What if Miles' "police officer death" *already* happened? Gwen says that her mask is her sort of "badge", so it could be the same for the original Spider-Man in Miles' dimension. The dimension wasn't destroyed, so I guess it was a canon event too. And this Spider-Man is like "too perfect", I feel like it should have been Earth-01 or something, but no, it's Earth-1610!
3-I did not read any comic books, but I think the Spider-Peoples learns from that "police officer death event" to get stronger, so wouldn't capturing Miles and not letting him to *at least try* saving his father break the canon?
That's just some of my theories, maybe I'm wrong but I love how this movie makes us get all those questions!
Edit: also I believe Miguel O'Hara is a good guy, he's just wrong about the multiverse. lol
1. This seems to,be a direct effect of spot. You need to keep in mind spot is differemt to EVERY other anomaly. Watch the vulture fight and you see the terrain physically glitch around him. This NEVER happens with spot. He seems to rewrite canon where ever ge goes. NOT BREAK, but rewrite. THIS is why things like gwen's dad stepping down doesnt break canon. It a direct consequence of spot's influence.
2. While I see what you are going for, it's a police CAPTAIN which the officer that others answer to. Since no officers answer to spider-man it doesn't really work
3. No they dont need to become stronger, the captain just has to die.
@@NAPainter ok, I see your points
i don’t think he’s a good guy. i do think he was a normal person (like most villains) until he got his powers. when his daughter died then he went on trying to create an elite spider society to try to help and stop this kind of thing from happening to good people. one day he realized that he could take the place of the version of him that died. leaving the spider-society for a “better more peaceful life” but spider- man can never be happy, so then the universe collapsed, leaving him with severe trauma. he then basically looses it, preaching delusions about “cannon events” to try to understand and cope with what he experienced, destroying and monopolizing entire universes and stopping superheroes from saving innocent people. all for the sake of some “canon” which is really just his coping mechanism for his guilt from causing an entire universe to collapse.
but hey
that’s just a theory
@@Miles_Morales161.0 interesting
A FIIIIILM THEORY
@@lfd10noob AAND CUT
Amazing Spider-Man: “It's... It's all back to normal.”
Spider-Man 2099: “The same here.”
Amazing Spider-Man: “Okay, but, if the timeline snapped back to normal, if none of it happened, how do you and I remember it? I mean we got two different set of memories in our brain. Shouldn't that, I don't know, make us crazy?”
Spider-Man 2099: “Crazy? We already dress in skin-tight costumes and fight bad guys for free.”
Amazing Spider-Man: “Okay, crazier.”
What if Miguel isnt just a Spiderman, he is actually a Captain. For the Spider Society he is basically a Inter-dimensional cop, and his serious demeanor is way closer to the police captains we see in the film (all three of them), rather than the jokey spidermans.
His world breaking he might think is because the canon event he violated is having the Police Captain be alive (by replacing him), which would explain why he might think the lack of a Police Captain death alone is threatening to a reality.
What if he's the police caption for miles or gwen that's fated to die instead of their fathers
Are you implying the Miguel that was shot was a captain? He wasn’t saving a child from falling rubble when he died. Nor was Spider-Man anywhere in the vicinity so I don’t see how it would effect his canon but nice idea tho
The combination of colors on Miguel was a really nice detail! I hadn't noticed it before. Previously I just correlated those colors to Prowler as he has that exact color scheme. But in another sense it could mean something different. In this scene specifically, it happened right after Miles questions Miguel being Spider-Man, so it could simply symbolize how Miguel is as much as an anomaly as Miles is as he also takes up the mantle of a previous Spider-Man and didn't get his powers in a "conventional way"(at least as conventional as it happens in most versions of a Spider-Man origin we've seen lol)
I don't think Miguel is purposefully lying, though. He is wrong, no doubt. But at least with the information we got on this movie, for me it just feels like he's having "tunnel vision". He's only seeing one solution for a problem that he himself doesn't fully understand how it happened. Miguel was already traveling the multiverse way before the destruction of the universe he mentions. In fact, in that scene we can see MULTIPLE Spider-Men in that reality, which weren't glitching like the rest of the universe and seemed to have that device on their wrist that protects them and allows multiversal travel. One of said Spider-Men was Peter B, so it's a no brainer that many of them would be hesitant at the idea of "changing the natural order of events" since they saw the risk firsthand. But the fact that Miguel already had a team ready to act is what's curious. Means he was already recruiting spider people, possibly with the idea of solving issues on the multiverse such as the villains being thrown into the wrong dimensions already in mind. This implies that Miguel might already have been studying this kind of thing for a while to try to come up with a conclusion of why everything is happening as it is.
Now, being aware of the idea that messing with the multiverse can have catastrophic consequences? That's fine. Because it really is as we've seen with Kingpin and The Spot, as examples. That doesn't mean that Miguel and the others fully understand the rules behind what can break an entire reality. And yeah, if the dead Miguel variant wasn't Spider-Man, then Miguel would just be a background character in that world. His existence SHOULDN'T interfere with canon events. That said, Miguel might really have ended up doing something more severe than just taking the place of his dead variant. Or... There is some other thing that causes this.
Renaissance Vulture made Gwen's reality glitch just by leaving the museum. What, you're gonna tell me that there's a canon event that requires spider people to fight a Vulture from another dimension and defeat him in a museum? That's... Oddly specific. But Miguel might be too blinded by the risks they could be taking if he eases up a bit on his belief of canon events being absolute. Be it guilt or some other factor, he just can't allow himself to see the bigger picture.
We gonna ignore that Alchemax is what caused the anomaly? Miles basically just got caught in the crossfire.
Miguel seems to have experienced the worst case scenario in Multiversal travelling situations but has rationalised it as the only outcome of messing with canon events
Ohh yeah that comment about the claws really upset Miguel. I mean Gwen called him out earlier in movie for being sensitive. considering that Miguel’s berating of Miles about being an anomaly serves no purpose, but to make Miles feel bad. I can only assume Miguel is projecting his own insecurities about his roll as a Spider-Man. He already says he feels alienated from the other spider people when he talks about ‘not being like the other’ when he’s monologuing at his desk.
Agreed. Someone on another video pointed out how characters like Miguel and Jessica reflect older minorities who try to keep younger ones in check by insisting on maintaining a status quo and projecting their own insecurities onto them. They explained it better, but I can see that (whether intentional or not). Miguel wasn't meant to be Spider-Man himself in a way, and he's projecting that insecurity onto Miles. But Miles didn't ask to be bitten. He was given a power and stepped up to use it for good. The fact that Miguel is spinning that in a negative way (and trying to make Miles feel guilty about it) is telling.
I think it’s not that Miguel is withholding information about himself and/or canon events, it’s that he doesn’t know as much as he thinks he knows. I feel like all of his motivations for doing what he does in the movie are pretty clear cut, and it doesn’t really seem like there’s anything off about them. Like, if you really think about it, everything he does is pretty reasonable. Dude genuinely believes that letting Miles go will result in the death of millions, so violently going after him feels justified when you consider that. I personally just think it’d be cheap to have him as a compelling antagonist with reasonable motives in this movie, to a straight up lying villain in the next. Just doesn’t seem like that’s the the path their gonna take with him.
I also hope that doesn’t happen. :/ cause then what’d be the point of spot right?
Plus, what really causes Miguel's universe he was in to get delete??? Was it really him messing with that universes flow or some other outside unrelated to him?
I like to think that Miguel's death would have been investigated by someone who would connect it back to Alchemax (where i think Miguel worked in the comics, iirc). The universe falling apart seemed more like Kingpin's collider than the aftermath of saving Singh.
Him playing house prevented that investigation from happening and let the collider go unstopped.
There are quite a few videos arguing that Miguel O'Hara is lying, but finally seeing one noting the difference in artstyle between the two universes "breaking down" is refreshing.
Also worth noting, these two artstyles aren't random : the "glass" style is similar to the glitches that happen to those who stay outside their universes (coherent with what happened when the Synchrotron fired in ITSV), while the "blackhole" style is characteristic of the Spot. My theory is that the universe O'Hara was in collapsed because he failed to stop the Synchrotron from being activated, and what happens in Mumbattan is simply the fault of the Spot.
what you described is exactly it
I feel like Cannon events are real but O'here doesn't truly understand.
Also, Mumbattan as a whole didn't actually glitch until Jessica's portal activated. Before then, only the building inside Spot's portal was glitching out, and even the glitching caused by Jessica's portal was extremely brief.
2:17 I think that it acts as a butterfly effect, whereby a seemingly small and insignificant event goes on to have a large impact. The small and insignificant event in this case being, Miguel continuing to live, even in a universe where he isn't Spiderman. Maybe him staying alive had some sort of ripple effect on a canon event that would directly impact that universe's Spiderman.
maybe his kid was meant to be that universe’s spider-woman. i mean, uncle ben dies by being shot in an alleyway. miguel from that universe was shot in an alleyway. spider-man is usually an orphan. it makes a little too much sense
The true moral of this story is that some things are not set in stone, but that you should never listen to the words of a super edgy red and black oc who doesn’t know what he’s talking about in the first place.
Have similar issues. Why someone like The Spot being everywhere he is not supposed to be and create lots of mess without blowing up the entire universe, while Miles just saved one person over this, does.... Hard to accept this setting.
Not sure if this is noted in the movie, but Captain Singh would not have even been in danger if not for the existence of Spot. Spot only exists because he accidentally brought spider 42 into 1610’s dimension and because Miles became Spiderman. If no miles, then no collider incident. If no incident, then no spot. If no spot, then no chaos in Mumbatten on that particular day, no chaos, no captain singh at risk. Wouldn’t that have disrupted the canon if Spot had not been there?
I think that Miguel's daughter was supposed to become that universes Spider-Man because that universes Miguel is like the uncle Ben, he needed to die in order for Gabriel to become Spider-Man.
I feel like the entirety of Earth-42 still being in tact despite the fact Miles G. Morales never getting bitten should say a lot about how wrong Miguel is. Like, the Spider never bit Miles-42, henceforth breaking the canon, no?
The big counter argument I've been seeing in regards to this is that Earth-42 self corrected itself by re-establishing a new canon for Miles G. to follow. This concept is never explicitly stated so I can't really speak too much on whether or not it's valid but it makes sense, afterall his dad is also dead in that universe and he became the prowler which other people have theorized was meant to be the true fate of 1610 Miles.
@@cockfightinglord That doesn't make sense though. If the universe could simply correct itself that thoroughly then what's even the point of stalling Miles? The universe would just kill him anyway
its really not clear whether he is lying or just himself misinformed, but there's no satisfying way for him to be right
Also, miguel doesn't have a spider sense, at the start of the movie, he doesn't sense the vulture when it hits him.
That's just an aspect of Spider-Man 2099. He doesn't have spider sense, sticky hands, or webs. He instead has fangs, incredible strength, and accelerated vision.
@@Zoova ah ok thank you!
@@Zoova he _does_ have webs, they're organic versus peter's which are generally scientifically made through some gadgets.
@@saaros Yeah I've heard he does have webs, but in this movie he only uses the orange tech ones.
A major detail I've seen everyone completely ignore regarding his "lies", he's not doing it to lie to them he's doing it because he genuinely believes their respective universe will end if they don't adhere to the Canon. He literally watched his family die again when he replaced the miguel that died in the universe he went to so he feels responsible for that and doesn't want anyone else to go through what he did. Its misguided because he believes he caused it but its definitely coming from a good place
Edit: nvm you're the first person that I've seen mention it
There's also the fact that he mentions he's sacrificed too much. He is a person that needs canon event theory to be true or else he won't have a purpose. He needs a reason for what he's doing. In Mumbhattan the black stuff was already covering Alchemax before Miles breaking canon, the same stuff started spreading creating the void after the building landed at that spot.
I feel he’s blinded by grief and is mislead but idk, if he goes absolutely feral going after miles again I don’t mind him being a villain or at least antagonist
He's already an antagonist, so that's a done deal. He was an antagonist from the jump.
Miguel killed his variant, and the daughter was supposed to become a spider hero
The prowler colors may be Miles' perception. Miguel was coming at him pretty much the same way Prowler did, claws and all. The music does sound similar though.
Miguel skipped a lot during his explanation. We, the audience, may miss all the left out details because we've been primed to expect the short version of the origin stories. Sneaky sneaky.
wasn't there also a part where miguel mentions that he 'had to work' to become spiderman? or isn't gifted with typical spider person traits?
Sorry this is late, but ur correct. Miguels mixed his dna with spider dna to get his powers. So technically he’s not even a “real” spider man
So my theory is this.
I think Miguel is partly right that you can't prevent a canonevent.
But only at the point of the canonevent.
But you can break or change the line to the point of the canonevent and stop the canonevent itself.
The best proof for this is Miles and his universe as well as Earth-42 itself.
Miles G. Morales should have become Spider-Man in his universe, which is possibly the greatest canonevent.
However, he was never bitten by a spider, which in this case is the line to that canon event.
Because the spider bite alone is not enough that one is and becomes Spider-Man. ITSV shows that.
So if you can't stop a canonevent under any circumstances, Earth-42 and 1610 shouldn't exist anymore.
Not to mention the specific focus on Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man who’s captain Stacy didn’t die protecting a kid from falling rubble🤔
3:34 I think people are forgetting something in this scene. People keep saying Pavitrs world is collapsing because of the cannon or from Spots holes, but I'm pretty certain it's neither of those. We just saw Spot go to Alchemax and successfully use the collider. But in the first movie, the goal was to stop the collider, and Earth 1610's original Peter was pretty specific about why: "It would create a black hole under Brooklyn." It's a bit anticlimactic, but I'm pretty sure what's happening in Pavs world is just a result of the Collider going off, creating a black hole in Mumbattan. Maybe I'm wrong though, who knows
That was because of the collider going off in Mumbattan and splitting the building in two.
I think Miguel's reaction to the "Are you _sure_ you're spiderman?!" crack is a hint at his (numerous) insecurities. Miguel, I think, _knows_ he's not any less anomalous as a spider-person than Miles.
The police captain thing seemed weak anyway because the movie showed the scene of Toby's uncle Ben dying but in the Raimiverse there wasn't a police captain Toby was close to that died. But the movie explicitly mentions a captain Peter is close to dying
I find it super interesting that the dimension disruption that Miguel experiences is visual far different from the literally hole left by the Spot.
I believe his needing to be right is making him overlook specific facts
I think what happened in Mumbattan was actually the Spot’s doing as somewhat of a collateral effect. What Miguel is saying also could be a hypothesis going from what he has experienced. Maybe he doesn’t even know all of the details
Great vid. Couple things to add:
1) Miguel is definitely hiding / lying about something. The things he says are proven wrong almost as he says them. We see the hole open in Mumbatten, and we see the spider team show up and they don’t seem too worried. If all it takes is a little tlc to close the hole, that’s a far cry from a universe shattering the way MoH describes.
2) Peter B is also in on whatever Miguel is on about. He knows more than Peter, but maybe not everything. Miguel hints at this with the “isn’t that right, Peter?” Throw away.
3) I’m not convinced that the Spider Society really knows what’s up either. If they know whatever secrets Miguel hides, why would Lila lie to cover it up? Whatever O’Hara is secreting, I don’t think the AI knows. If they did it would mean all the SS including Lila is rotted.
Another theory I have is that in the universe that his other self died in, if it is breaking the canon by replacing him, that must mean that he could've been the spider in that universe's (the one shown in the hologram) Uncle Ben of sorts.
Also, the very first words that Miles spoke to Miguel, translated from Spanish, is "What's up, uncle?"
Incursion
Here’s my take on Miguel breaking the canon. Out the gate, the death of the Miguel from the reality where he was supposed to die mirrors Uncle Ben's death very closely. They both attempt to stop a robber from stealing something or hurting someone, and end up killed in the same way: gunshot wound to the chest. Personally, I think that Miguel's daughter or someone close to that version of Miguel was going to become the Spider-Totem (catch-all term for people with spider powers) and that was their “Uncle Ben moment,” much like Uncle Aaron's death and Peter Parker's death for Miles. It’s a moment that’s supposed to teach that Spider-Totem (if they didn’t already know it) that with Great Power must also come Great Responsibility. In most versions of the classic Spider-Man origin, Uncle Ben's death is caused by Peter's own selfishness and immaturity, so his Uncle's death is supposed to shock him into being more responsible and noble. Because Miguel took the place of the Miguel who died, that Spider-Totem never learns their lesson on responsibility, and as such never become the hero who saves the world from utter destruction, which is why that universe fades away in the first place. So, the main Miguel stopped a teaching moment for that universes version of the Spider-Totem, and stopped them from becoming a proper hero, unlike Miles, who had already learned that he can’t save everyone, so the death of his father would be a pointless tragedy.
Wouldn't that be the exact same case for earth-42 miles??
@@Thatglasseskun well, he never got bit by the spider. He never entered the “Spider-Canon,” and he never really had to learn about power and responsibility as Uncle Aaron shaped him into the Prowler because of the death of Miles's father. Maybe in the next movie Earth-42 Miles will get Spider Powers and learn responsibility but also take his own path as well, like Earth-1610 Miles does.
He mentioned Spider-Man: No More Home where three Spider-Man (who don’t glitch onscreen maybe because of magic but that feels lazy, could just be because it’s made by different teams) fight their respective universe villains together and change their predetermined outcome, saving them from death. It could just remain a cameo but we at least know that Donald glover is the uncle of miles in both films, and possible the prowler depending on how it goes.
You're ignoring the most glaring detail. Every move Miles makes after being bitten should break canon.
Miguel is prepping for a war. He needs the spider-people to go through their canon and become the best versions of themselves.
i think the movie just goes to show how hard making a multiverse can be, it’s not a bad movie at all but it kinda shows how holes are created in the different representations of characters and events
But that's not bad writing, nor is it a weakness of the film. In fact, it brings into focus the fact that comic book stories are retold and remixed and restarted over so many times that it's just a web of confusion. Comic book hero stories are mythology, like the tales told long ago, and different cultures interpreted the same stories differently. I think the film shows that.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin exactly, i said that and especially with the flash and how it also had a different take on the multiverse. I think the fun part about some of these movies are the different ideas and takes on the multiverse trope
@@LadyAstarionAncunin i never said it was bad writing, in fact it’s a really good movie and it just shows the effort people put into not only the story but the underlying concept of the multiverse
Remember in ITSV how Dr. Olivia Octavius said that if they fired the collider another time a giant black hole would open under Brooklyn and cause some space time shit? I think that's what happened in Mumbattan, thanks to Spot activating the collider- so it was not due to a broken canon event
What if Miguel's daughter was supposed to be spider man and her Canon event was miguel dying
My theory for how miguel broke the canon of his dead versions reality is that his daughter was supposed to be spiderwoman, she was supposed to experience the trauma of her dad (miguel) dying, so when miguel replaced himself, it screwed up the story
I don’t think there’s any lying happening, it might turn out that way and I’m wrong, but it seems most likely their idea of canon events and how they work are just wrong
The answer to the truth about why Miguel is doign what he is doing, could perhaps lay in one of the most recent comic runs of Spider-man 2099. Those comics were dominated by a story-arch of Miguel trapped in the present trying to restore his future.
We all forget that Miguel is from the future, that the reality he adopted... was a future-based reality...
That reality ceased to be for some reason, and its likely he is trying to restore it... Or to put it more bluntly, if there is no spider-man in the past of earth 42, the reality Miguel adopted cant exist.
Miguel was never bitten by a spider. You would think that would be a canon event for spider-man
That’s exactly what I said. Migeul seems like a total imposter
Now I just can't wait to see the next one. Thanks for this vid mate! Keep it up🕷
I think you just spoiled beyond the spiderverse
the thing is that Miguel doesn't have the full answer to the cannon event and why it's happening. He only KNOWS HALF of the solution. something has to happen that He hasn't prepared for for him to fully grasp the idea of the cannon event. He isn't wrong or lying. he just doesn't have the full idea or scope of things. Literally EVERYONE is Only getting HALF of the picture and they have no idea
This is just a painful misunderstanding of Spider-Man 2099's character.
Extremely unlikely but it’d be really hilarious (at first) if the universe miguel thought he destroyed was actually just destroyed by an alchemax experiment gone wrong or some shit lmao
LOL That would be such a gut-punch to him, but deserved at this point.
That's what I was thinking too or similar. Him faking as himself in another universe does not do shit, just some other outside force beyond his control is what fucked up that universe.
@@ARuiz-eu3hk (just like the spidermen writers constantly fucking over spiderman no matter what spiderman does)
@@ARuiz-eu3hki think what caused the universe to be destroyed was because someone was supposed to be a spider person after Miguel's death and because he was alive that there was no need for that person to work at being spider person
The majority of a universe can be interacted with so long as it does not effect cannon events, think of it like altering the things we don't see going on in a comic book world that don't have any effect on the story we're reading. That is my theory and if it's correct than people can go to other universes so long as they don't change what happens in canon events.
It might be easier to understand it like if something is a canon event that means in our world a comic is written about it if no one has written a comic book about it then it isn't canon so it can be interacted with; here's an example:
A terminator spiderman from a dimension outside the one it's currently in sees someone about to buy solid color drapes for his daughters' room. Seeing such a tragedy unfold the Aracinator (yes, that's it's name) decides to intervene. It swings down and crashes through the shops windows, it approaches the frightened father looking down at the purchased solid color drapes then returning it's cold gaze to the father and speaks; "Don't do it. - You need butterflies, polka dots, balloons."
^^^^^
This is a (poorly scripted, selfsona insert) non canon event as there are no chapters in this spiderverses dimention that involve terminator-spider fusions or drapes or anything that was affected by what transpired. Therefore the lore is maintained and so yada yada, multiverse stability, yada yada the canon is maintained. HOWEVER!!! IF!!! this did affect something that is part of one of this universes chapters and therefore one of it's canon events then that chapter is no longer canon; that chapter has now become fanfiction... and a story needs canon chapters to maintain it's integrity. So (Damn this id so much longer than I intended) if you (I mean seriously I was only planning on writing one sentence) make to many chapters crucial to the story non-canon a story will fall apart and so it's universe will cease to exist, after all a story only feels real and can exist so long as it makes sense.
Phew l hope that made sense.
I would like to thank @lostfootage for pointing out holes in this logic, long story short Peter B. Parker had a kid because of his interactions outside of his dimension, therefore doing stuff that he wouldn't be doin otherwise and so replacing A LOT of canon with non-canon… hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…
Okay new theory (you're still here? hats off to your longer-than-average attention span) perhaps it isn't specific events that the canon requires to maintain itself but simply a cohesive, consistent enough sequence of events that a story made from them would make sense? On second thought this is a stretch of ludicrous proportion.
I would like to thank @parsa6645 for pointing out the possibility that canon events can still occur for different reasons, with this in mind any dimension could sort of maintain it's own canon, case in point maybe it was canon for Peter B. Parker to get back with Ginger-what's-her-name. So yeah this logic could be applied to any apparent canon event. I think???
(I was only 2:33 in before I started typing)
OH, also, also it's easy enough to assume the butterfly effect does not occur, we can assume time is more like a river; you can throw a rock in to change the current slightly but it will always correct itself eventually down the line. Ah buuuut if you thrown enough stones at one pot in the river it might create a wall of stones causing an actual change in course. This was from Xmen I think.
Here's another thought (oh lord somebody stop me)Miguel's Daughter was supposed to be that universes spiderman, his death was supposed to be her canon event. No tragic death, no "Remember, with great power comes great responsibility.", no Spiderman. And in regards to Gwen's Daddy not being Captain; she already had her tragic death canon event, it was lizard-peter.
Wait... why does Universe 42 exist if it has no spiderman?
Kay mind's empty thank you for coming with me on this stroll through my mind palace.
I have a feeling Miguel will end up helping Miles in the very end, maybe even sacrificing himself
The problemo is that if Miguel is wrong then literally every single Spider-Man was wrong as well. No one thought to question him or double check.
The canon event is the captain's death. As an anomaly, I believe Miles has the power to change some canon events without breaking the universe, kinda like how Gwen's father did not break canon by retiring, since he and Gwen's Spider-persona weren't close. Loopholes in the rules.
However, the multiverse has a stream to maintain. Just like in a universe in which Ben lived had May take his place to maintain the continuity intact, someone equally important to Miles might take his place. I think an anomaly only breaks the universe if they operate outside of their own. If they operate inside, they have more freedom of maneuver, but the universe will adapt itself to not stray too far.
This is effectively Schrödinger's plot hole
Resolution of the video: I said Miguel lies... I concluded that I have no idea...
Miguel wasn't supposed to be spiderman in the universe were he had a daughter but his presence from certain point forward was changing the event of the one who was supposed to be bitten by the spider.
That means his daughter was supposed to be spidergirl and he was her inspiration...
Miguel understand that his daughter has to grow up without a father,same as Miles has to as well.
Gwen's father left the police,that doesn't mean that Miguel lies because maybe her canon is simply different than Miles's.
After all,the canon event is not only one,that's why the canon that Miguel explained had a specific code.
Also no one actually interferes with the decision that her father took.
Miles is gonna had to choose, being spiderman embarrassing the reality of Spiderman losing most of the people around him,or being selfish and putting what he wants to protect before what he most protect.
I think a theory is, this Miguel was Prowler in his dimension, and used to work for Alchemax.
Upon his family's unfortunate passing away in some accident, he used the portal technology to specifically search for a Universe where he d*es, but his family lives, so that he can take his de*d self's place.
The other him, also worked for Alchemax, and due to some rivalry or something, he was k*lled, one night when he was returning from office. The cannon event was that, after Miguel's d*ath, police would have investigated the company, accidentally finding Kingpin's collider, and temporarily shutting it down
We've seen how the collider, if gone wrong, could make Universes collapse. Thus, Miguel's d*ath, was a cannon event, that would've saved that Universe...
But since, this Miguel, replaced the d*ad one, no investigation was required, thus, police never shut down the collider, and Kingpin went ahead with his experiment, and accidentally merged the 2 Universes, which led to its collapse
Ever since then, this Miguel is *obsessed* with cannon events
I just thought of this, tell me if im wrong.
If miles's spider wasnt supposed to bite him, obviously, thats not a canon event. But according to miguel, in every spiders story, someone has to die. Miles's uncle died, which makes that canon, so my question is, can a canon event be created?
Hypothetically, if you get bit by the spider, then your life would have to abide by that canon (an event that happens in every Spider-Man’s story) from then on.
That’s what I’m guessing.
@@apieceofmedia Yeah that's true
My theory is that, what is actually happening is “breaking” the canon, but simply, incursions. Granted, we haven’t been give a great description on what happens during a incursion in movies (most notably DSMOM) but we are given a possible cause, basically something happens between 2 universes which causes one to be anilated. Sure we are told this with dream walking in Doctor Strange, but it’s entirely possible that spending enough time in a universe you’re not meant to be in could have the same effect. That would explain the universe Miguel saw destroyed. This doesn’t really fit with Indian Spider-Man’s case, but we also have the collider there which could just as easily cause it potentially. I could be very wrong, but that’s my theory.
Who else thinks Miguel is actually the Prowler of his universe? Like he's an imposter trying to be a "Spiderman" ?
He kinda is a imposter. He injected himself with spider dna so technically he’s not even a real spider man. Bro doesn’t have spider sense and has claws and fangs 😭.
@prince-bm4xt A. He didnt inject himself with spider powers he got them after his boss put him in a machine that spliced is dna 50/50 with a spider
B. For spider powers he has enhanced vision(night vision too), retractable claws on his fingers and toes similar to the hairs on raimi spider man but larger, organic webs, and reflexes, fangs that inject a toxin to paralyze enemies
One thing that also doesn’t make sense is how Spot “Created” Miles and how the 42 reality shouldn’t exist. That Spider came from 42 and bit our miles, and in Miguel’s own words “left a dimension without their Spider-Man” … but just like Uncle Ben, Police Chief Stacy, and Gwen are canon events, it all starts with the Spider Bite. The 42 Spider not biting the 42 Miles drastically altered the course and history of that Dimension, but despite breaking Canon its still there.
I think that detail is very important too since they highlight Miguel never got bitten. He’s “not like the others”, and even though other Spider people aren’t necessarily reliant on the Bite like the tech girl who joined Gwen’s Team, the Bite has to be a canon event so theres a lot of flaws in this theory he has of the canon
I feel like Mubattan was crumbling because of the Spot spreading dark matter. His theme even plays when the ground starts glitching.
7:25 - Rest In Peace this video’s audio.
Miguel: we, as Spiderman, supposed to suffer, to help others.
Miles: no, we aren't.
Spiderman writers: "giggling" yeah, you're right, Miles "continue to giggling"
The 42 world would also have broken canon events wouldn't it? I mean no Spider-man was created in that world which was supposed to be like one of the first canon events. Also the spider-man we saw in the breaking world might have just been one of the spider-men Miguel brought with him, like Peter B.
Across the Spiderverse is definitely a piece of media.
you forgot to add the part where Miguel O Hara says these chapters are supposed to happen or something like that, so maybe that miguel O hara in that spiderverse was supposed to die, and Miguel O hara being in that spiderverse where miguel O hara was supposed to die, ruined the chapters/ canon event disrupting that spiderverse and destroying it.
Gwens world is not falling appart when her dad says he won't be a captain, because the choice he made had nothing to do with the multiverse, he made that decision himself, and they would have had this conversation anyways
If Miles is an anomaly, why should he have to adhere to _Peter Parker's_ canon? Where is 1610's Captain Stacy? There are 355 police captains in New York. Why does it have to be Miles' dad? The Spot doesn't know Spider-Man is Miles Morales. He just wants to destroy the city Miles lives in. So, if he destroyed another captain instead, who's to say it's not canon and The Spot potentially taking out Miles' dad would just be collateral damage? They obviously can't see the future. Miguel's theory has more holes than The Spot.
Also, just as an aside: 1610 Peter Parker wanted to train Miles. He didn't see him as some unwelcome presence, nor did he mind sacrificing his life to save not just Miles but the entire city. Miguel trying to guilt Miles for that is awful (he's still hot but it's awful). I love Peter B. Parker, but I would have really liked to see Peter Parker interact with Miles more. He seemed like a sweet dude.
Peter Parker from Shatered Dimensions: "If you don't get that, then you don't get the first thing about being Spider-Man."
Unless Miguel’s daughter was supposed to be spider woman and that was her canon but this is really weird
I think they won’t turn Miguel into an outright villain, I think he’s just working off of what he’s seen or experienced, so he formed this narrative that he now pushes on all the other spiders
He experienced a world breaking apart, and later came to the conclusion that that must’ve happened because of him disrupting a canon event, without having any kind of actual proof aside from his own observations
My guess is miguel genuinely believes his theory due to his PTSD. My guess is miguel genuinely believes his theory due to his PTSD.
I watched ATSV three times and I have a theory, The only reason why Miles is an anomaly, is because Miguel broke the cannon event for himself.
A couple things to add one the difference between the canon disruptions miles saved the captain because he was in trouble and would have died... Miguel it was just out of selfishness and actually did more harm than good as he also removed the family's ability to grieve
2. Miles isnt wrong with his viewpoints can you really let someone close to you die if you know its coming and couple prevent it Miles doesn't think twice to save someone in need.
3. As an anomaly in any timeline he represents infinite potential and possibilities... as mentioned in the video Mayday Parker only exist because Peter met miles.... additionally Gwen once stated she was done with friends and while she still withdrew from her bandmates and her dad she would be more open to friendships like how she gained bonds with Hobbie, and even her mentor... and eventually even repaired her relationship with her dad all this is because of Miles and not a single one of these realities collapsed... also hard to tell if mumbattan could potentially be due to the spot as the blackhole was left where he exited that universe
Isn't that red and blue spiderman in Miguel's world, Peter B. Parker. He has a watch and also Miguel remarks to Peter B. saying "isn't that right Peter". Maybe im confused by what was said at 2:23.
Are we also gonna talk about how Miguel just pulled a Scarlet Witch style kidnapping on that little girl
The Peter Parker in the world as it disintegrated was Peter B. by the way, we see him without his mask on.He was there trying to help keep the world from disintegrating and trying to save people.
Pavs dimension wasn’t crumbling because miles saved the captain. It happened because Spot left a tear in the dimension when he left
Yeah it was all due to spot messing with the collider so the captain would've been a casualty not a canon event
Thus making Miguel’s explanation and his blaming of miles absolute bs
I guess no one noticed this in the movie, but in the scene where Miguel was talking to Miles, he said that if we save enough police captains and break the canon event, we can lose everything. People probably don't understand this because they think that when a canon is broken, the universe disappears.
Compare it to an earthquake.
There is no such thing as a house that will fall apart when there is a small earthquake, just like canon events, but if there are too many earthquakes, the house will collapse. Miguel says the same thing and if we look at it from this perspective, it shows that Miguel is looking from the right angle and he is right.
And you can't say he is lying
Canon events are true but there are some unanswered things
Exactly this, i also like to believe that if a canon is changed all it would do is pass it on to someone else so if miles dad is saved that means someone else will die that would have the same impact or more on miles character. Canon events are inevitable and that applies to current and changing ones.
There’s no way every canon event happens to every spider person. The comics would all be identical
Basically what Miguel did was trigger an incursion because there were two versions of him in the same universe, one dead and one alive. So of course canon events don’t exist and Miguel is completely wrong in sacrificing people for it. On Earth 50100 the reason why that world was beginning to collapse was because of the collider that the Spot turns on at full blast had created a black hole just the original Spider-Man said would happen if Kingpin turned on the collider again.
That Shattered Dimension cutscene could make a great point why The Canon events is total BS. If miles is an anomaly, then So is the other characters.Gwen’s dad quit as captain, Pavitar doesn’t get to experience losing the his version of ‘captain stacy’, and Peter B’s daughter literally exists because of Peter B’s bond with miles from the first film
"but im a good guy." "you dont look like a good guy." "your just gonna have to shut up and trust me."
Just wanted to add two additional drops that align with Miguel not being a Spiderman:
In the fight with the Vulture, he yells to the helicopter crew "I'm a good guy" and the crew yells back "You don't look like a good guy" and he responds "You'll just have to shut-up and trust me". Already alluding to him not being what he seems, but continues the theme of Miguel not being who he seems. As an added note - Captain Tracy said he made the decision to leave the force during Gwen's speech, and immediately after there were no anomalies detected (but that choice was a disruption of the "canon").
And an additional point, when Peter B Parker comes in, and Mayday is climbing on Miguel, Peter B Parker notes "You're the only Spiderman who doesn't have a sense of humor." Having a sense of humor is another canon trait.
*edit* two additional points. Miguel is the only "spider person" when giving his backstory that doesn't use the same recap. He just tells his story straight up. And an additional catch - After Miles escapes using the Go Home machine, the machine tries to scan Miguel, and he interrupts and breaks the machine (looks like he's lashing out, but could also be he doesn't want to be scanned and caught).
wait..... if you rewatch ITSV.... 10160B's [I forgot what numbers were in it] peter dying was a canon event. Peter B. replaced that peter. and 10160B miles' universe didn't get destroyed...?! YOU ARE RIGHT MIGUEL LIED.