As a 944 guy, I've been waiting for this. Splitting hairs, I think maybe the 1989 944S2 with its normally aspirated, torquey powerplant was the better car to compare as the spiritual predecessor 86, but I love the fact you compared your car to a 944 at all! Also nice to know there has been progress after 33 years. Can't argue with you - the new 86 is a better car, but for those looking for a recent classic... Like Paul and his 928, I have been irrationally sinking a small fortune into my S2 for several years now as a matter of principle.
As a porsche nut case, and an ex-brz owner, i’ve been thinking my 968 was the perfect predecessor… it turns out I am not that crazy after all! (Or maybe, just as crazy!)
I like this comparison. I’d probably have a good naturally aspirated 944 myself but the modern GR86 is such a great car for the money. Oh and that tuned FRS is impressive. Mad respect to that owner.
I have a 1988 Porsche 951 (944 turbo) undergoing a full restoration. I had the original 2.5l turbo stroked to 2.8l and built with pauter rods and high flow head at Lindsey racing. I purchased a Vitesse Stage 4 turbo package with MAF and MAP sensors to upgrade the ignition system. According to Vitesse, that engine will produce about 350hp at the rear axle on pump gas(92 octane). The body is being prepared for a complete repaint. I will have far more money in this car than a new GR86 fully optioned out the door, but in the long run the 951 has far more potential and will hold it’s retail value(which is currently appreciating) than any new mass produced Toyota product.
Your old Fast Blast review was one of the deciding factors for me finally getting a 951. The other two cars here are great but the 951 is just classy, timeless, and effortlessly cool.
you could pick up a used 86 for say 15k and put another 5k or so into mods and be at the same performance level as the guy who wanted to overpay for his jdm parts. the gr86 is still the winner for non track use tho it's hard to argue with.
The 86 does cost an arm and a leg to repair, a new motor is 23k from Toyota/Subaru. Most likely because it’s so new. An alternator if I remember correctly is around $1200.
I owned a 1986 944. It was a cheap 944 that needed work, but I really enjoyed driving it. I spent a lot of time looking for something newer to replace it. Once I drove my 2022 GR86, I knew I could let the 944 go.
Personally I would get a 968, and spend the money to replace all of the bushings, the struts, everything that that needs to be done to make the car on point. Then I would explore the possibility of turbocharging it. I had a 968 back in the day, and I loved it. It was a complete Revelation compared to the cars I had had before. It was my first real grown up car. I wish I'd kept it. I'd still have it today.
What is a manual 968 worth in the States (presuming you are from there) now? Over here they are so expensive now that if you did a little work in one a GR86 might almost be cheaper.
I own a 968 and agree that it is a great car. What makes it feel different for me compared to modern cars is the added power you need to operate the car. It feels nimbler than many modern cars but I wish it was even nimbler. The Miata is just that. Where I disagree somewhat it the remark about body roll. Yes back in the 80ies you simply had more body roll but I would put it on worn bushings that the turn in is not immediate. On my 968 (with fresh bushings and a stiffer anti roll bar) the turn in is immediate and body roll is really low.
I got a Hakone Edition 86 and I love that thing. I used to own a 1979 Fiat 124 Spyder and that was a blast to drive because how light it is. Between the 3 I would rather have something fun and tweak and tune it over the course of many years. Also I wish they went into detail on the mods for the FRS.
The owner of the GT86 might have spent thousands in modifying the car in around 8 years of ownership, but that's the fun about it! Toyota/Subaru gave us a well balanced, reasonably quick car for what they were aiming for and ultimately they also gave us a blank canvas for us to personalize as much as we like. The aftermarket parts available are endless, that's why I love my 86, you keep adding until you feel it full fills my expectations of what my 86 should be, sure you could always buy a faster car from factory in which you either keep as is or also modify it, but to each their own, personally would not sell the 86 for a GR86 just cause it has a better engine, but rather slightly keep modifying my 86 overtime.
Wow!!! I'm surprised to see the 944 turbo here! I own the same year and color but with a burgundy interior with just 77k mi on her. I've owned her since 1999, and it she served as my Porsche DE car for a decade! The Turbo S are very underrated for some reason, but you guys really find out what these cars are really about! I loved that you also compared it to newer cars. I'm thinking that a 944 S2 or 968 might've been a better fit... only for the fact that a slightly modded 944 turbo with a chip and exhaust can put over 300hp to the wheels, and the normally aspirated engines would've been a closer match to the 86 and frs! Thanks for posting!!!
I've got a poop beige 86 951 as well. i agree on the S2 for this comparison--at the end of the day the 951 is a turbo porsche kind of in another realm with inconel exhaust, alusil, says porsche and turbo on it.
I would love for Paul to choose between a 987/981 Base Cayman and the GR 86. The 944, like Camisa said, was the spiritual predecessor to the 86, but it's NA vs Turbo.
@@EverydayDriver Please don't publish it. 😆Joking aside, that's been my struggle all year. Waiting for my golden ticket allocation from Toyota for nearly 11 months, looking for non-dumpster Caymans, and hoping the egregiously inflated used car market continued to drop. I finally got an 86 allocation that should come in December so I've put the search engines to bed. Either way, you end up with a classic. Can't wait for the video!
I have a 2015 BRZ and was looking for a 987.2 Cayman S for a while. I do track days every month or so and I happened to get an opportunity to drive and directly compare my BRZ and 987.2 Cayman S on track, not some street driving. I was expecting a lot and I ended up rather disappointed with the Cayman, because it felt almost too good - no fun at all. It had precise steering (I'd argue whether it was any better), it was undoubtedly faster, it had a perfect soundtrack and way more grip on both axles, but that said it was just missing the fun factor. Since then I've stopped looking for Caymans (at least 987) and I'll be on a watchout for a used GR86/2nd gen BRZ and maybe 981 until I get to drive one on track . I drove a GT4 on track and that was excellent but way out of my budget for a weekend fun car.
@@TeeJayka the 987.2 will likely be more fun than the 981, the 981 was the "more refined" of the three (thus far) generations. If the 987 wasn't "fun" on track then it means you likely weren't anywhere near the limit.
Before getting 30 seconds in...yes we want more of this car hahaha. Coming from an 18' BRZ owner with all the NA bolt ons to get close not even close to what that makes stock! But boy is this chassis fun to drive and slide around in the corners!
If you do all the work yourself and don't mind searching around for parts, then the 944 is such a solid car for a daily, and a super fun track car. The only problems I have had with mine is having to buy directly from Porsche for a few things. A lot of OEMs have been dropping parts these past 10 years and you are forced to buy from Porsche or sometimes that cheap knock off brand that I can't remember the name of. But throw some Bilstein's on it, short throw shifter kit, even a small thing like the 1:1 throttle response cam makes the car feel more responsive off the line. And it looks soooooo gooood especially with a GTP front bumper, 924 turbo hood/nose panel and euro rear bumper
having own a 944 turbo, i think you guys get it right. when driving it fast, its undramatic. so much so that if you didnt know what you were doing, youd say it wasnt that exciting. but when pushed, the 944s just keep going ... just keep going ...
My limited experience with the 944 Turbo was on/off switch slingshot, but loved it. Feeling it was more akin to an EcoBoost Mustang to me, but more enjoyable, more comfortable, more easy to place (partly because it was less jittery than Ford's sportifying). I've driven an NA 944 (I believe it's a 1986) plenty of times for work and appreciate the ride quality and visibility over the FR-S and BRZ. We had a 2010 BMW 128i Coupe (sport package, automatic) come through as a trade in last year, and I've always had a soft spot for them from previous experience. I was already on the market for a 328i Wagon before Covid struck (a manual 330i turned me on to the E9x platform for the first time), but being torn between the E91 and the BRZ, the E82 struck a certain balance (not to mention conveniently showing up). I get a touring coupe I can see out of with a smooth, naturally aspirated I6-- damn near the end of the line for BMW (the N52 last appearing in the second gen Z4 a few years after the 1-Series demise). Lack of LSD and clumsy, heavy dynamics aside (compared to the low-slung 86's), I'd love to see you guys look at the 128i manual's that are out there. They're becoming a unicorn for a number of people. Especially with how the market, and BMW have changed. Last time I saw an LCI M-Sport manual it was asking only $13,000. Very much used 86/BRZ manual prices.
As a 951 owner I appreciate you guys taking the time to explain how you have to drive the car to get performance out of it. You did an excellent job of doing so as well. I just drove mine to Taco Bell. Cheers.
I got my 2023 BRZ limited a few days ago after ordering it in May. Absolutely in love with it. I traded in my 2013 frs for and couldn't be happier with the new gen.
You guys sold me into buying the package from speedfactory(loved it) You guys also sold me into buying the gr86(booked and coming soon hopefully) You guys almost made me regret selling off my gt86 when i saw the white gt86 ☹ but its fine because the GR made more sense to own long run
The 944 was my lust for car in the 80's. I had to settle for an 88' Acura Integra. How things change, but not really. In 2017 I lusted after a 2018 model year 911 GT3 991.2 generation. I had to settle for a 2016 Boxster GTS. Why not a Cayman?, you ask. Come on! I'm 62, what do you expect.
"Settle" for a GTS? That's a place I'd love to settle. But my poor old 987S Boxster is fine. I'm not sure how much more fun you can really get from a GT3. At a track day this year, I rode with my instructor in his 992 GT3 Touring for a few laps. That was a fierce machine but it was so damn fast there just aren't many places you can really make the car work and appreciate what it can do.
I’m happy Toyota GT86 owner , I looking forward to work hard and in the future buy the GR86 as well. Phenomenal cars and true bliss even with flaws , I’m grateful I own it. I love this content. Glad to hear praise where it given.
Hi, Kei from Japan!! I have been studying English from your youtube. Thanks a lot!! By the way, people here in Japan think same way about GR86. It’s affordable, reliable, fun car. Even, car analysts say so.
I like the way Toyota thinks when they build GR models. When they build a sports car, they spend the most on the parts that are hard for users to spend money to change. As a result, they are concerned with the engine block, body strength, center of gravity and body panel materials (aluminum and carbon fiber). Then, brakes, tires, seats, and aero parts are pre-designed so that users can tune them as they like later.
I’m not a tuner. I also don’t wish to deal with reliability issues. Perhaps that makes me a lazy enthusiast, but I have to own that. I really like these guys (though I give Paul grief from time to time) and this was great (as per usual). My take? 1. I respect the commitment of the Trd owner. I’d lovingly refer to his effort as lunacy….the good kind. 2. 944 turbo. I’m sure it’s a wonderful machine…..but I’m slightly nervy about my 9 yo boxster (and that’s a weekend car). I consider this a car that I hope a friend buys so I can drive it and he can deal with it 3. I owned two first gen BRZs and tolerated the imperfections better than most. Sold my 2017 this year for a civic si. That’s fun and easy to live with (and fits my suburban parental chores well)……but…..I’m getting another brz in about 2 years (when supply isn’t so dear). Drove a GR and love it!! I know there are differences now between the Toyota and Subaru incarnations but I doubt they’ll amount to anything significant day to day. Something about owning the brand that contributes more to the build makes me want the Subaru again. But I’m not opposed to getting the GR. When my younger kid drives herself (and her sports gear) places, I’ll hold my nose, take the depreciation hit on the Honda and get this toyotabaru!
944 is lovely. But 3.5 turns lock to lock is a deal killer. It's simply from another time. Also lacking in rigidity but apples to oranges. Great vid and nostalgia is a helluva drug.
Wow I don't know if anyone has ever asked for this video but this is exactly what i wanted to see. my first car was 1984 Porsche 944, forward a decade i have a 1986 ae86(which i still have). forward another 5 years i'm looking for maybe a used porsche or a new gr86. I loved that 944, having that car when i was 20 years old at 2010 it still stands as my favorite car i've ever owned. i love seeing new videos with a 944
This is amazing I’ve actually been looking into buying a new project car and my 4 cars I’ve been looking into is a 2016 86, A Porsche 944, or save a little more to get the new BRZ and WOW THIS VIDEO POPPED UP AND ANSWERED EVERYTHING!!! Idk who you guys are but thank you for making this amazing video!
Nice, just got my first GT86, with supercharger. The best part of the whole car is her magic button. The slidey one. 3 sec and then she really moves. Doughnuts, power slides and backwards parellel parking are all possible with the GT and i imagine the GR86. I feel these important points are somewhat overlooked in the content. Roundabouts are an entirely new experiance now
GR8 review! I like this series. So here's a poke in the eye: Find an RX8 that has $34,000 invested in it, car and upgrades. That may not be the fastest car, but I love the way it handles and I have a project one waiting in line.
I love the 944, I also love the BRZ (haven't driven the 2nd gen but am so glad they did what they did)........I'm picking the RX-8 every single time without hesitation. I just love them soooooooooooooo much more. All 3 wouldn't be a terrible place to have to suffer through life though haha.
A used first gen brz with headers and a tune would be a lot of fun for not that much money. yes, you will have less HP, but unless you are comparing it to other cars, it doesn't matter on a canyon road.
$60k on a 86 is nuts when a Cayman R is $65k-75k. And Porsche parts are not more expensive than TRD parts. Testament that "Rare" Japanese parts will ruin your affordable JDM build.
Raise your hand if you've ever cross shopped a 944 Turbo and an 86 LOL!!! The Porsche use case was odd to me. May I suggest a 2000's 2+2 contender from Infiniti, the G35 coupe 6MT for 10K with about 80K miles. Throw 7K to an all-forged engine build, 3K to big intakes, exhaust & HFC's, 5K to Ohlins and 5K in wheels, tires & front/rear arms, full set of bushings. 300++ whp at a screaming 7000+ RPM, gutted to 3000 lbs with full track suspension... for 30K USD. GR86 money, lowest of the bunch, and smokes all three on a short or long track. Humiliation at the strip.
Great review ..man I got a memory lane trip out of it.....I remember well being a boy, in the doctors waiting room like today, seeing the 944 in an article it must have been new at that time, fast forward my first sportscar was a red 944 Targa, I smell the car in my mind still...leather, oil - I loved it...good comparison idea but.... no comparison. :) thanks guys keep them coming, the very special emotional episodes like this one.
So, from this video we can see, how the same conspect has evolved over time and how newer ones are even better then the older ones and hopefully we continue the same way in the future
I would say it is also the spiritual successor of the Nissan 240sx. I had a 1995 so that is my favorite and would be the one I would compare. And currently I own a 2008 WRX.
How is that FRS making so much power? +50 wheel HP is huge. If the new one had the same potential, it could have 270, which would be approaching actually fast, recent cars, like the E46 M3. Can the FRS owner tell us which parts made the biggest difference?
yeah, that was def odd. Tuned 1st gens with all bolt-ons (on e85) did max 200whp in some cases afaik. 220whp was the claim here though right? 2nd gens do ~215whp stock and are expected to make ~240whp maxed out in the same fashion.
I have driven both the FR-S/GR86 and the 944, and they have a very similar handling balance. Both are very confidence inspiring with a communicative rear end that breaks away progressively. The 951 has more feel, but it comes at the expense of heavier control weights. The gen two 86 is the easiest car to drive quickly around corners I have ever driven, and I have driven a lot both old and new.
Thank you guys for pointing me to this one. Not sure how I missed it when it got posted, must of just glazed over. Strong video and it probably did help me make a decision to avoid the 944 for now. One I was looking at is NA.
I own 2 first gen brz's and I've driven many client's porsches. Never did drive a second gen brz. Assuming the brakes are upgraded, the header is replaced with one that doesn't suck, the heinous factory tune is done away with and true premium rather than the joke that is western 91 octane is used, the fair comparison for the first gen brz is more to a 911 than the 944. Based on layout and power it isn't obvious, but that is the clear takeaway if you drive both back to back. This video did a good job of showing the 944's body roll and less eager steering whereas the brz and 911 are precise eager and very reassuring top tier corner eaters.
The only problem I have with your commentary on this is the amount of money put into the FRS. The vast majority was for owner preferences (all the JDM/TRD stuff), not so much for performance upgrades. I would be surprised if there was more than around $3K put into addressing engine power. Overall I really like this comparison, but I do think it needs to be clear that the $30K plus was far from necessary to make it competitive with the other two!
We hope you noticed all the elements of the driving experienced mentioned as different in the tuned FRS. The changes in the driving went way beyond addressing the power. Having said that, yes... the TRD/JDM focus in this build creates lots of cost that most would never do or need to. Thanks for watching and commenting!
yeah that guy has a nice frs but tbh... seems so wasteful, for that money id be buying other jdm parts like 326 wing, some baller wheels wattanabes or 326 or works etc.. dude legit payng a premium price just to say he has trd parts its so idiotic.. that front splitter is so MEH and he paid over 1k for it LOL. legit a joke.. could of had a way cooler build for much less and had all the performance if not better performance.. just cause it has TRD on it doesnt make it any better, could of bought all whiteline bushings and saved so much money for ex and had better performance. I currently have an HKS header,tomei OP, nvidia exhaust, perrin inlet and and filter, whiteline bushings, enkei rpf1s and a tune and lowering spreings, all i need to get are some good coilovers in the future and prob performs almost as good as this car for a couple Gs lol.. for aesthetics i got trd spoiler, RBv1 splitter and rear diffuser, side skirts, seibon carbon hood idr brand etc for prob abt another 2g total.. all in all im under 20k total in my FR-S fully paid off as i bought in full and it has 40k miles on it for a '13.. idk how the hell someone thinks 60k total for that was a good idea... should of been widebodied and boosted and built engine for that type of money lmao.
@@ImperviouslyGaming That’s the great thing about these cars - there’s so much that you can do to make the car whatever you want it to be. Get ten enthusiasts together and you’ll have ten cool but still different cars!
The white FR-S looks exactly like my with the TRD Aero 2 body kit, side skirts, quad tip exhaust, even all the engine bits and did the work myself. The only difference is I got the Aero kit 1 front lip and it is in black. Regardless it gives me goosebumps when I saw it, but I need to talk/meet the owner.
The only thing about the 1st gen 86 is you can get it to a lot more power, for a lot less money than this one. Plus with a supercharger, you get the exact opposite of a torque dip. Going forced induction for $5k-8k and getting to 240-280whp is my personal best choice. It'll end up being around the same price as buying a new GR86. You don't need to spend $30K on a GT86 to get it to this level. Granted, not everyone wants to go forced induction, but that's just my choice.
This particular owner wanted to use as many TRD parts as he could to build the ultimate what if car using parts you could buy from the dealer (and many from oversees that weren't sold here. You can certainly do more for less by using non-TRD components
I've had my 1st gen BRZ for over 7 years...during that time I've seen plenty of boosted FRS/BRZ owners...only a few of them are still driving those same cars today...I'll let that statement speak for itself.
@@moldyrefrigerator Yeah, that's definitely a good point. Reliability matters. I think a big problem is a lot of boosted owners go for too much power without the supporting mods to keep it going
@@Trio3224 I used to see a bunch of Jackson supercharged cars at the track. They were mild setups due to class rules making around 245whp. ALL of them blew coil packs, sometimes multiple in a single weekend, every single event. All of them. Meanwhile, the non supercharged cars would go weekend after weekend without any issues. All of the supercharged cars are gone. One moved to Spec Miata, another a Mustang Challenge car, another disappeared entirely.
@@phattyhales Interesting. I don't have much personal experience knowing 86 owners. But I've seen TH-cam channels and forums threads of cars anywhere from 250-310whp long term with no issues, even with heavy track use. I think most of the people I saw with track cars have more supporting mods tho. Me personally, I've owned my 86 for almost 2 years and mine is tuned and on E-85 making around 200ish whp and I plan on getting a new fueling system, new clutch, forged internals, and going for a twin screw sprintex supercharger. So in a few years, I'll have my own personal experience to go on.
I love the roomy feel and visibility of the bulbous 944. The 86brz family looks more sporty; would like to see one side by side with 'Ferrari' Dino and Opel GT of ~1970.
That would be a hard comp to do. I don't think GM sold that many Opel GTs in the US and rust has probably had its way with many of them. And the Dino is in the serious 7-figure collector category now.
As a new 951 owner (in March) and a current BRZ with turbo owner, I really enjoyed this comparison. So far the BRZ is the daily in 3 seasons and the 951 will be the weekend cruiser. (Next year the 951 needs a better exhaust though, so quiet!)
Great comparison. I'd love to see you guys compare the new GR86 to a few year old 228i Msport BMW. 2+2, rwd, manual, made for fun. Or even a slightly higher milaged M235, such a bargain sports car.
Kudos ! I've been waiting for someone to do this comparison. It was really great yet also created even more questions. How did the steering feel, brakes and shifter compare ? Did this 944 have the firmer M030 suspension option that also included bigger brakes ?(or does that bump the cars price up too much in the aftermarket ?) I've only read that the 944 manual was smooth with a light feel but as older cars go, it has a longer throw . It begs to wonder how the 944 turbo's canyon performance would compare with a short shift kit and a smaller aftermarket steering wheel along with the same tires as your GR86. I've driven a same era 911 with and without a short shift kit, it did make a noticable difference. Thanks!
I'd choose the first gen and modify it my way (spend way less). The second gen is amazing but I probably wouldn't have money left for mods but for sure it need much less money to be perfect. The porsche is tricky cause even if you get it cheaper you need to spend the money to replace the old worn parts and take care of the rust which is way too expensive and once you've put it in a pristine condition you can start spending money on mods and you just end up with a way too expensive and precious car to fully enjoy. But the first gen is getting older now and it also applies for it, you might start thinking about expenses which new cars don't require... always the same dilema
17:48 ….. where is this road! I found a 22 BRZ on turo in Hawaii…. It was sooo much fun with two people but add a third and the suspension seemed to run out of composure, the car felt slow and disappointing. Perhaps an angle I’ve never seen anyone explore is how a car drives with friends. My old E46 M3 was brilliant with three aboard….I suspect my F82 will shrug off a 3rd passenger no problem but that Subaru with three people on board reminded me of how my first car felt with the AC on vs off!
I always had a soft spot for the 944, and when I met a contractor who owned one that he's been upkeeping and updating, I asked him I'd love to get one, but he said you better have a lot of money to maintain it. It was a warning. I ended up looking for an E36 M3 to replace my 200 quattro. In the end, they were all money pits.
I saw this pop up on my feed and was like "wait, what?" but after watching, the comparison makes perfect sense. I would be torn between the 944 and the GR86.
It’s hard to justify a 30 year old 944 over a new GR86 when you factor in that the 944 will inevitably have old car problems. You can buy a new GR86 and it’ll work right out of the box without any tinkering.
A possible advantage is that the Porsche has finished depreciating, so in 5 years time it will still be worth $30k (perhaps more). The risk is you'll have spent the depereciation (prehaps more) of the GR86 on maintaining the 944
I own an 89 S2 and a 2013 BRZ set up for TT track with over 10K in suspension, braking and tuning. BRZ is definitely more lively on the track but the S2 is my preferred road car.
Really neat video and great deep dive. Cool thing is I own both a first gen 86 and a 944. But I went a different path which might be interesting others. On my frs I bought used for 22k cdn put a sbd turbo on for 6k and my labour, Nvidia exhaust for 600, flash tablet for 500 for tuning, 1000 in new lightened flywheel, stage 1 clutch, clutch fork from verus, tob cause tob failed; 250 hood vents, 200 catch can, 1600 wheels with 245's, I'm 308 hp and 245 tq to the wheels and that ain't 60k As for my 944, I'm fixing its power deficiency with a 5.7L ls1 swap with Texas performance conversion kit. I agree though an S2 was better than the turbo in my opinion.
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As a 944 guy, I've been waiting for this. Splitting hairs, I think maybe the 1989 944S2 with its normally aspirated, torquey powerplant was the better car to compare as the spiritual predecessor 86, but I love the fact you compared your car to a 944 at all! Also nice to know there has been progress after 33 years. Can't argue with you - the new 86 is a better car, but for those looking for a recent classic... Like Paul and his 928, I have been irrationally sinking a small fortune into my S2 for several years now as a matter of principle.
As a porsche nut case, and an ex-brz owner, i’ve been thinking my 968 was the perfect predecessor… it turns out I am not that crazy after all! (Or maybe, just as crazy!)
@@isikgungen7009 I loved my 968. 1995. Wish I'd kept it.
@@isikgungen7009
Well, the 968 really was the pinnacle of the car. They're also getting into full classic category now.
What is your opinion on the 928S? You get the smaller narrow body with the 944 N/A engine
951 is king.
This particular GT86 IS the definition of a ‘tuned’ tuner car … well done
I like this comparison. I’d probably have a good naturally aspirated 944 myself but the modern GR86 is such a great car for the money. Oh and that tuned FRS is impressive. Mad respect to that owner.
NA 944 is so poop slow. The chassis needs the turb.
@@nutsackmania the s2 is pretty solid na
I have a 1988 Porsche 951 (944 turbo) undergoing a full restoration. I had the original 2.5l turbo stroked to 2.8l and built with pauter rods and high flow head at Lindsey racing. I purchased a Vitesse Stage 4 turbo package with MAF and MAP sensors to upgrade the ignition system. According to Vitesse, that engine will produce about 350hp at the rear axle on pump gas(92 octane). The body is being prepared for a complete repaint. I will have far more money in this car than a new GR86 fully optioned out the door, but in the long run the 951 has far more potential and will hold it’s retail value(which is currently appreciating) than any new mass produced Toyota product.
Finally, someone compares the new 86 with the 944! I've wanted to see this since the 86 came out.
Glad you enjoyed this!
Hagerty did the comparison in their GR86 review last year as well.
Me too Marc, I thought it was the obvious comparison since the 86 came out. I've been looking for a 86 vs 924S or n.a 944 for a long time.
You guys forgot a major factor. Depriciation. Porsche for the win.
Your old Fast Blast review was one of the deciding factors for me finally getting a 951. The other two cars here are great but the 951 is just classy, timeless, and effortlessly cool.
This tuned GT86 is a great formula for other GT86's. Looks good and how I'd build it
Yeah I have a 14 FRS as well. Love some of the mods the owner did. I just like working on mine, hope to do more when I get a Chevy Bolt
you could pick up a used 86 for say 15k and put another 5k or so into mods and be at the same performance level as the guy who wanted to overpay for his jdm parts. the gr86 is still the winner for non track use tho it's hard to argue with.
The 951! I miss mine. They are fantastic vehicles!
Would have been nice to see some lap times for these cars to compare especially the older modded car to the newer one.
As a former 951 owner, I'd choose the 86 any day of the week. Doesn't cost an arm and a leg to repair, and a good amount of HP+modern amenities
@Jason Casale 🙄 I have no problems finding parts for my 951 between FCP Euro, 944Online, Pelican Parts, and Lindsey Racing.
The 86 does cost an arm and a leg to repair, a new motor is 23k from Toyota/Subaru. Most likely because it’s so new. An alternator if I remember correctly is around $1200.
Wait till they hit 35 years old.
@@gwilliI just inherited an N.A. 944, those are good sites to get parts from then?
I owned a 1986 944. It was a cheap 944 that needed work, but I really enjoyed driving it. I spent a lot of time looking for something newer to replace it. Once I drove my 2022 GR86, I knew I could let the 944 go.
Personally I would get a 968, and spend the money to replace all of the bushings, the struts, everything that that needs to be done to make the car on point. Then I would explore the possibility of turbocharging it. I had a 968 back in the day, and I loved it. It was a complete Revelation compared to the cars I had had before. It was my first real grown up car. I wish I'd kept it. I'd still have it today.
What is a manual 968 worth in the States (presuming you are from there) now? Over here they are so expensive now that if you did a little work in one a GR86 might almost be cheaper.
I own a 968 and agree that it is a great car. What makes it feel different for me compared to modern cars is the added power you need to operate the car.
It feels nimbler than many modern cars but I wish it was even nimbler. The Miata is just that.
Where I disagree somewhat it the remark about body roll. Yes back in the 80ies you simply had more body roll but I would put it on worn bushings that the turn in is not immediate. On my 968 (with fresh bushings and a stiffer anti roll bar) the turn in is immediate and body roll is really low.
The 944 is such a gorgeous looking car
I got a Hakone Edition 86 and I love that thing. I used to own a 1979 Fiat 124 Spyder and that was a blast to drive because how light it is. Between the 3 I would rather have something fun and tweak and tune it over the course of many years. Also I wish they went into detail on the mods for the FRS.
The owner of the GT86 might have spent thousands in modifying the car in around 8 years of ownership, but that's the fun about it! Toyota/Subaru gave us a well balanced, reasonably quick car for what they were aiming for and ultimately they also gave us a blank canvas for us to personalize as much as we like. The aftermarket parts available are endless, that's why I love my 86, you keep adding until you feel it full fills my expectations of what my 86 should be, sure you could always buy a faster car from factory in which you either keep as is or also modify it, but to each their own, personally would not sell the 86 for a GR86 just cause it has a better engine, but rather slightly keep modifying my 86 overtime.
Wow!!! I'm surprised to see the 944 turbo here! I own the same year and color but with a burgundy interior with just 77k mi on her. I've owned her since 1999, and it she served as my Porsche DE car for a decade! The Turbo S are very underrated for some reason, but you guys really find out what these cars are really about! I loved that you also compared it to newer cars. I'm thinking that a 944 S2 or 968 might've been a better fit... only for the fact that a slightly modded 944 turbo with a chip and exhaust can put over 300hp to the wheels, and the normally aspirated engines would've been a closer match to the 86 and frs! Thanks for posting!!!
I've got a poop beige 86 951 as well. i agree on the S2 for this comparison--at the end of the day the 951 is a turbo porsche kind of in another realm with inconel exhaust, alusil, says porsche and turbo on it.
Always love it when 944's get attention. They were great driver's cars. Good to see more comparisons between the Toyota 86 and 944!
Would be good to see them at the track
I would love for Paul to choose between a 987/981 Base Cayman and the GR 86. The 944, like Camisa said, was the spiritual predecessor to the 86, but it's NA vs Turbo.
We have a Cayman vs 86 video coming soon!
@@EverydayDriver Please don't publish it. 😆Joking aside, that's been my struggle all year. Waiting for my golden ticket allocation from Toyota for nearly 11 months, looking for non-dumpster Caymans, and hoping the egregiously inflated used car market continued to drop. I finally got an 86 allocation that should come in December so I've put the search engines to bed. Either way, you end up with a classic. Can't wait for the video!
@@EverydayDriver should find a good turbo 86 to put up against the cayman
I have a 2015 BRZ and was looking for a 987.2 Cayman S for a while. I do track days every month or so and I happened to get an opportunity to drive and directly compare my BRZ and 987.2 Cayman S on track, not some street driving. I was expecting a lot and I ended up rather disappointed with the Cayman, because it felt almost too good - no fun at all. It had precise steering (I'd argue whether it was any better), it was undoubtedly faster, it had a perfect soundtrack and way more grip on both axles, but that said it was just missing the fun factor. Since then I've stopped looking for Caymans (at least 987) and I'll be on a watchout for a used GR86/2nd gen BRZ and maybe 981 until I get to drive one on track . I drove a GT4 on track and that was excellent but way out of my budget for a weekend fun car.
@@TeeJayka the 987.2 will likely be more fun than the 981, the 981 was the "more refined" of the three (thus far) generations. If the 987 wasn't "fun" on track then it means you likely weren't anywhere near the limit.
Keep the GR86 content coming, my body is ready!
Having owned the 951, I am especially fond of its abilities, lasting aesthetic and fun factor.
Before getting 30 seconds in...yes we want more of this car hahaha. Coming from an 18' BRZ owner with all the NA bolt ons to get close not even close to what that makes stock! But boy is this chassis fun to drive and slide around in the corners!
As an owner of both an FRS and 944S, I approve of this video :)
I owned a 1985 944, bought from the original owner with 240k miles, and it ran flawlessly. Currently own 2023 BRZ limited. I approve as well!
The way you guys make the visuals so intriguing, it’s nearly orbital orgasms. Great video again
Glad you enjoy what we do. Thank you for watching and commenting!
If you do all the work yourself and don't mind searching around for parts, then the 944 is such a solid car for a daily, and a super fun track car. The only problems I have had with mine is having to buy directly from Porsche for a few things. A lot of OEMs have been dropping parts these past 10 years and you are forced to buy from Porsche or sometimes that cheap knock off brand that I can't remember the name of. But throw some Bilstein's on it, short throw shifter kit, even a small thing like the 1:1 throttle response cam makes the car feel more responsive off the line. And it looks soooooo gooood especially with a GTP front bumper, 924 turbo hood/nose panel and euro rear bumper
A rear wheel drive car that can spin the tires through 1st gear from a roll is honestly a riot at that never gets old.
having own a 944 turbo, i think you guys get it right. when driving it fast, its undramatic. so much so that if you didnt know what you were doing, youd say it wasnt that exciting. but when pushed, the 944s just keep going ... just keep going ...
My limited experience with the 944 Turbo was on/off switch slingshot, but loved it. Feeling it was more akin to an EcoBoost Mustang to me, but more enjoyable, more comfortable, more easy to place (partly because it was less jittery than Ford's sportifying). I've driven an NA 944 (I believe it's a 1986) plenty of times for work and appreciate the ride quality and visibility over the FR-S and BRZ.
We had a 2010 BMW 128i Coupe (sport package, automatic) come through as a trade in last year, and I've always had a soft spot for them from previous experience. I was already on the market for a 328i Wagon before Covid struck (a manual 330i turned me on to the E9x platform for the first time), but being torn between the E91 and the BRZ, the E82 struck a certain balance (not to mention conveniently showing up). I get a touring coupe I can see out of with a smooth, naturally aspirated I6-- damn near the end of the line for BMW (the N52 last appearing in the second gen Z4 a few years after the 1-Series demise).
Lack of LSD and clumsy, heavy dynamics aside (compared to the low-slung 86's), I'd love to see you guys look at the 128i manual's that are out there. They're becoming a unicorn for a number of people. Especially with how the market, and BMW have changed. Last time I saw an LCI M-Sport manual it was asking only $13,000. Very much used 86/BRZ manual prices.
As a 951 owner I appreciate you guys taking the time to explain how you have to drive the car to get performance out of it. You did an excellent job of doing so as well. I just drove mine to Taco Bell. Cheers.
Glad you enjoyed. Thank you!
I got my 2023 BRZ limited a few days ago after ordering it in May. Absolutely in love with it. I traded in my 2013 frs for and couldn't be happier with the new gen.
I wonder is 2.4L swaps into first gen will become a thing in the future.
You guys sold me into buying the package from speedfactory(loved it)
You guys also sold me into buying the gr86(booked and coming soon hopefully)
You guys almost made me regret selling off my gt86 when i saw the white gt86 ☹ but its fine because the GR made more sense to own long run
The 944 was my lust for car in the 80's. I had to settle for an 88' Acura Integra. How things change, but not really. In 2017 I lusted after a 2018 model year 911 GT3 991.2 generation. I had to settle for a 2016 Boxster GTS. Why not a Cayman?, you ask. Come on! I'm 62, what do you expect.
"Settle" for a GTS? That's a place I'd love to settle. But my poor old 987S Boxster is fine. I'm not sure how much more fun you can really get from a GT3. At a track day this year, I rode with my instructor in his 992 GT3 Touring for a few laps. That was a fierce machine but it was so damn fast there just aren't many places you can really make the car work and appreciate what it can do.
I love this channel. Pulling cars from unlikely origins and just have fun, without the hyper technical jargons. Us common folks thank you !
We’re glad you connect with what we do! Thanks for watching!
I'm so glad you bought this GR86 !!!
Hope to buy BRZ in 2023...
Please do as many tests as possible with the GR86
Thank you
I’m happy Toyota GT86 owner , I looking forward to work hard and in the future buy the GR86 as well. Phenomenal cars and true bliss even with flaws , I’m grateful I own it. I love this content. Glad to hear praise where it given.
Hi, Kei from Japan!! I have been studying English from your youtube. Thanks a lot!! By the way, people here in Japan think same way about GR86. It’s affordable, reliable, fun car. Even, car analysts say so.
Paul.. todd.. this new vs used idea is awesome. Its also exactly how I think.. thanks
I can’t believe you guys don’t have a million subs. I first subbed years ago. Cinematography is excellent and your reviews are fair.
I like the way Toyota thinks when they build GR models.
When they build a sports car, they spend the most on the parts that are hard for users to spend money to change.
As a result, they are concerned with the engine block, body strength, center of gravity and body panel materials (aluminum and carbon fiber).
Then, brakes, tires, seats, and aero parts are pre-designed so that users can tune them as they like later.
I’m not a tuner. I also don’t wish to deal with reliability issues. Perhaps that makes me a lazy enthusiast, but I have to own that. I really like these guys (though I give Paul grief from time to time) and this was great (as per usual).
My take?
1. I respect the commitment of the Trd owner. I’d lovingly refer to his effort as lunacy….the good kind.
2. 944 turbo. I’m sure it’s a wonderful machine…..but I’m slightly nervy about my 9 yo boxster (and that’s a weekend car). I consider this a car that I hope a friend buys so I can drive it and he can deal with it
3. I owned two first gen BRZs and tolerated the imperfections better than most. Sold my 2017 this year for a civic si. That’s fun and easy to live with (and fits my suburban parental chores well)……but…..I’m getting another brz in about 2 years (when supply isn’t so dear). Drove a GR and love it!! I know there are differences now between the Toyota and Subaru incarnations but I doubt they’ll amount to anything significant day to day. Something about owning the brand that contributes more to the build makes me want the Subaru again. But I’m not opposed to getting the GR.
When my younger kid drives herself (and her sports gear) places, I’ll hold my nose, take the depreciation hit on the Honda and get this toyotabaru!
Loved my 85 1/2 porsche 944. It was awesome and had massive leg room and massive width inside. A great car
944 is lovely. But 3.5 turns lock to lock is a deal killer. It's simply from another time. Also lacking in rigidity but apples to oranges. Great vid and nostalgia is a helluva drug.
Wow I don't know if anyone has ever asked for this video but this is exactly what i wanted to see. my first car was 1984 Porsche 944, forward a decade i have a 1986 ae86(which i still have). forward another 5 years i'm looking for maybe a used porsche or a new gr86. I loved that 944, having that car when i was 20 years old at 2010 it still stands as my favorite car i've ever owned. i love seeing new videos with a 944
This is amazing I’ve actually been looking into buying a new project car and my 4 cars I’ve been looking into is a 2016 86, A Porsche 944, or save a little more to get the new BRZ and WOW THIS VIDEO POPPED UP AND ANSWERED EVERYTHING!!! Idk who you guys are but thank you for making this amazing video!
We are one of the longest running TH-cam automotive channels. We’re thrilled you found us. Glad you liked this, and thanks for watching!
I've got the 944 and this car surprises me everytime I clim in it.... I cannot wait to receive my GR86 in 2 month's time!
I have had 2 951's and loved them. I regret getting rid of them tremendously.. my favorite car
Nice, just got my first GT86, with supercharger. The best part of the whole car is her magic button. The slidey one. 3 sec and then she really moves. Doughnuts, power slides and backwards parellel parking are all possible with the GT and i imagine the GR86. I feel these important points are somewhat overlooked in the content.
Roundabouts are an entirely new experiance now
GR8 review! I like this series. So here's a poke in the eye: Find an RX8 that has $34,000 invested in it, car and upgrades. That may not be the fastest car, but I love the way it handles and I have a project one waiting in line.
I love the 944, I also love the BRZ (haven't driven the 2nd gen but am so glad they did what they did)........I'm picking the RX-8 every single time without hesitation. I just love them soooooooooooooo much more.
All 3 wouldn't be a terrible place to have to suffer through life though haha.
The Toyota GR86 is as close as you can come to a modern Datsun 240Z as well as the 944.
Great video
Love all the 86 content and wouldn't mind more
Wish the music was a tad more quiet though
A used first gen brz with headers and a tune would be a lot of fun for not that much money.
yes, you will have less HP, but unless you are comparing it to other cars, it doesn't matter on a canyon road.
Your videos are so beautiful !
Just like a movie
Continue as much as possible
Mainly with the GR86 Comparisons
Glad you enjoy our work. Much more on the way!
Interesting video. However for a thrilling match, can you put on the track: an S2000, a tuned E85 gt86 and a GR86?
You Utah boys have some spectacular driving roads!
$60k on a 86 is nuts when a Cayman R is $65k-75k. And Porsche parts are not more expensive than TRD parts. Testament that "Rare" Japanese parts will ruin your affordable JDM build.
Raise your hand if you've ever cross shopped a 944 Turbo and an 86 LOL!!! The Porsche use case was odd to me. May I suggest a 2000's 2+2 contender from Infiniti, the G35 coupe 6MT for 10K with about 80K miles. Throw 7K to an all-forged engine build, 3K to big intakes, exhaust & HFC's, 5K to Ohlins and 5K in wheels, tires & front/rear arms, full set of bushings. 300++ whp at a screaming 7000+ RPM, gutted to 3000 lbs with full track suspension... for 30K USD. GR86 money, lowest of the bunch, and smokes all three on a short or long track. Humiliation at the strip.
Great review ..man I got a memory lane trip out of it.....I remember well being a boy, in the doctors waiting room like today, seeing the 944 in an article it must have been new at that time, fast forward my first sportscar was a red 944 Targa, I smell the car in my mind still...leather, oil - I loved it...good comparison idea but.... no comparison. :) thanks guys keep them coming, the very special emotional episodes like this one.
So, from this video we can see, how the same conspect has evolved over time and how newer ones are even better then the older ones and hopefully we continue the same way in the future
Thank you for fresh content love your channel
I would say it is also the spiritual successor of the Nissan 240sx. I had a 1995 so that is my favorite and would be the one I would compare. And currently I own a 2008 WRX.
How is that FRS making so much power? +50 wheel HP is huge. If the new one had the same potential, it could have 270, which would be approaching actually fast, recent cars, like the E46 M3. Can the FRS owner tell us which parts made the biggest difference?
yeah, that was def odd. Tuned 1st gens with all bolt-ons (on e85) did max 200whp in some cases afaik. 220whp was the claim here though right? 2nd gens do ~215whp stock and are expected to make ~240whp maxed out in the same fashion.
Could be less decrease in drivetrain losses, considering he spent the money on a carbon driveshaft, who knows what else was done
....The E46 ended production 17 years ago...
There’s no way that frs makes an honest 220whp.
The GR86 is the car I should buy. I just wish that back was a hatch, like the 944, and I wish it had a Mazda interior. I still might have to buy one.
My whole family believes in building, not buying...we love to learn and grow our skills mechanically! First Gen all day!
I have driven both the FR-S/GR86 and the 944, and they have a very similar handling balance. Both are very confidence inspiring with a communicative rear end that breaks away progressively. The 951 has more feel, but it comes at the expense of heavier control weights. The gen two 86 is the easiest car to drive quickly around corners I have ever driven, and I have driven a lot both old and new.
Thank you guys for pointing me to this one. Not sure how I missed it when it got posted, must of just glazed over. Strong video and it probably did help me make a decision to avoid the 944 for now. One I was looking at is NA.
I own 2 first gen brz's and I've driven many client's porsches. Never did drive a second gen brz.
Assuming the brakes are upgraded, the header is replaced with one that doesn't suck, the heinous factory tune is done away with and true premium rather than the joke that is western 91 octane is used, the fair comparison for the first gen brz is more to a 911 than the 944. Based on layout and power it isn't obvious, but that is the clear takeaway if you drive both back to back.
This video did a good job of showing the 944's body roll and less eager steering whereas the brz and 911 are precise eager and very reassuring top tier corner eaters.
Can we get the list of the parts for the GT86?
Great episode guys!
Can’t wait to get my GR 86 but have to wait until April/May 23 going to be so much fun!
Very cool comparison! The 944T was a hero back in the day.
The only problem I have with your commentary on this is the amount of money put into the FRS. The vast majority was for owner preferences (all the JDM/TRD stuff), not so much for performance upgrades. I would be surprised if there was more than around $3K put into addressing engine power. Overall I really like this comparison, but I do think it needs to be clear that the $30K plus was far from necessary to make it competitive with the other two!
We hope you noticed all the elements of the driving experienced mentioned as different in the tuned FRS. The changes in the driving went way beyond addressing the power. Having said that, yes... the TRD/JDM focus in this build creates lots of cost that most would never do or need to. Thanks for watching and commenting!
yeah that guy has a nice frs but tbh... seems so wasteful, for that money id be buying other jdm parts like 326 wing, some baller wheels wattanabes or 326 or works etc.. dude legit payng a premium price just to say he has trd parts its so idiotic.. that front splitter is so MEH and he paid over 1k for it LOL. legit a joke.. could of had a way cooler build for much less and had all the performance if not better performance.. just cause it has TRD on it doesnt make it any better, could of bought all whiteline bushings and saved so much money for ex and had better performance. I currently have an HKS header,tomei OP, nvidia exhaust, perrin inlet and and filter, whiteline bushings, enkei rpf1s and a tune and lowering spreings, all i need to get are some good coilovers in the future and prob performs almost as good as this car for a couple Gs lol.. for aesthetics i got trd spoiler, RBv1 splitter and rear diffuser, side skirts, seibon carbon hood idr brand etc for prob abt another 2g total.. all in all im under 20k total in my FR-S fully paid off as i bought in full and it has 40k miles on it for a '13.. idk how the hell someone thinks 60k total for that was a good idea... should of been widebodied and boosted and built engine for that type of money lmao.
@@ImperviouslyGaming That’s the great thing about these cars - there’s so much that you can do to make the car whatever you want it to be. Get ten enthusiasts together and you’ll have ten cool but still different cars!
@@captainvector very true. I love this platform due to that and it just being a lightweight FR platform that's 2door. Checks all my boxes.
What engine mods did he do to get 221 whp? That’s a huge increase.
Great comparison! Glad to know I got the right one... the GR86. Though when I test drove the Scion, it's steering feel is so much better.
The white FR-S looks exactly like my with the TRD Aero 2 body kit, side skirts, quad tip exhaust, even all the engine bits and did the work myself. The only difference is I got the Aero kit 1 front lip and it is in black. Regardless it gives me goosebumps when I saw it, but I need to talk/meet the owner.
The only thing about the 1st gen 86 is you can get it to a lot more power, for a lot less money than this one. Plus with a supercharger, you get the exact opposite of a torque dip. Going forced induction for $5k-8k and getting to 240-280whp is my personal best choice. It'll end up being around the same price as buying a new GR86. You don't need to spend $30K on a GT86 to get it to this level. Granted, not everyone wants to go forced induction, but that's just my choice.
This particular owner wanted to use as many TRD parts as he could to build the ultimate what if car using parts you could buy from the dealer (and many from oversees that weren't sold here. You can certainly do more for less by using non-TRD components
I've had my 1st gen BRZ for over 7 years...during that time I've seen plenty of boosted FRS/BRZ owners...only a few of them are still driving those same cars today...I'll let that statement speak for itself.
@@moldyrefrigerator
Yeah, that's definitely a good point. Reliability matters. I think a big problem is a lot of boosted owners go for too much power without the supporting mods to keep it going
@@Trio3224 I used to see a bunch of Jackson supercharged cars at the track. They were mild setups due to class rules making around 245whp. ALL of them blew coil packs, sometimes multiple in a single weekend, every single event. All of them. Meanwhile, the non supercharged cars would go weekend after weekend without any issues. All of the supercharged cars are gone. One moved to Spec Miata, another a Mustang Challenge car, another disappeared entirely.
@@phattyhales Interesting. I don't have much personal experience knowing 86 owners. But I've seen TH-cam channels and forums threads of cars anywhere from 250-310whp long term with no issues, even with heavy track use. I think most of the people I saw with track cars have more supporting mods tho.
Me personally, I've owned my 86 for almost 2 years and mine is tuned and on E-85 making around 200ish whp and I plan on getting a new fueling system, new clutch, forged internals, and going for a twin screw sprintex supercharger. So in a few years, I'll have my own personal experience to go on.
You guys are two of the greatest creators in this segment on TH-cam. Thanks for the content.
You're right !
We take that as a huge compliment. Thank you!
@@EverydayDriver
❤👊
the 944 is my dream car, i'll take a 944 any day over the GR86
If they perform similar. The GR86 would be more reliable
@@jmmch3358 I mean I do own a Cayman S and it's a very reliable car but the 944 is my dream girl. Don't tell my Cayman that!
I love the roomy feel and visibility of the bulbous 944. The 86brz family looks more sporty; would like to see one side by side with 'Ferrari' Dino and Opel GT of ~1970.
That would be a hard comp to do. I don't think GM sold that many Opel GTs in the US and rust has probably had its way with many of them. And the Dino is in the serious 7-figure collector category now.
Isn't the Opel GT more compareable with the 924 Porsche?
@@ChrisHuppey Yes, and in I now would include also the European Ford Capri (before the Mercury Capri which was a Fox-era Mustang clone).
Man. I cannot wait to get my 2023 86.
Woooo new video
Can't wait to hear about it again!
Anyone who can't respect GR86 content needs to find a new channel to watch... this channel is about driver's cars and we appreciate it!
As a new 951 owner (in March) and a current BRZ with turbo owner, I really enjoyed this comparison. So far the BRZ is the daily in 3 seasons and the 951 will be the weekend cruiser. (Next year the 951 needs a better exhaust though, so quiet!)
Great comparison. I'd love to see you guys compare the new GR86 to a few year old 228i Msport BMW. 2+2, rwd, manual, made for fun. Or even a slightly higher milaged M235, such a bargain sports car.
Kudos ! I've been waiting for someone to do this comparison. It was really great yet also created even more questions. How did the steering feel, brakes and shifter compare ? Did this 944 have the firmer M030 suspension option that also included bigger brakes ?(or does that bump the cars price up too much in the aftermarket ?) I've only read that the 944 manual was smooth with a light feel but as older cars go, it has a longer throw . It begs to wonder how the 944 turbo's canyon performance would compare with a short shift kit and a smaller aftermarket steering wheel along with the same tires as your GR86. I've driven a same era 911 with and without a short shift kit, it did make a noticable difference. Thanks!
The 944 is a solid car, its so solid its like a brick, no rattles or noises of any kind from them.
Can we get a mod list for the 2014 FRS?
Yes please we’d love to see it!
I'd choose the first gen and modify it my way (spend way less). The second gen is amazing but I probably wouldn't have money left for mods but for sure it need much less money to be perfect. The porsche is tricky cause even if you get it cheaper you need to spend the money to replace the old worn parts and take care of the rust which is way too expensive and once you've put it in a pristine condition you can start spending money on mods and you just end up with a way too expensive and precious car to fully enjoy. But the first gen is getting older now and it also applies for it, you might start thinking about expenses which new cars don't require... always the same dilema
Great comparison! I love your film style shoots.
Thank you. We're glad you enjoyed this and appreciate you watching!
17:48 ….. where is this road! I found a 22 BRZ on turo in Hawaii…. It was sooo much fun with two people but add a third and the suspension seemed to run out of composure, the car felt slow and disappointing. Perhaps an angle I’ve never seen anyone explore is how a car drives with friends. My old E46 M3 was brilliant with three aboard….I suspect my F82 will shrug off a 3rd passenger no problem but that Subaru with three people on board reminded me of how my first car felt with the AC on vs off!
I always had a soft spot for the 944, and when I met a contractor who owned one that he's been upkeeping and updating, I asked him I'd love to get one, but he said you better have a lot of money to maintain it. It was a warning. I ended up looking for an E36 M3 to replace my 200 quattro. In the end, they were all money pits.
I saw this pop up on my feed and was like "wait, what?" but after watching, the comparison makes perfect sense. I would be torn between the 944 and the GR86.
Glad you clicked on it and watched. Thank you!
Never stock, always room for improvement; no matter what it is..
We ordered a GR86 Premium 6spd in Trueno Blue. Can't wait to get it. 10 days away from the delivery date. 😎👍
I always love 86 content. Can you guys find a nice turbo one for the next one?
It’s hard to justify a 30 year old 944 over a new GR86 when you factor in that the 944 will inevitably have old car problems. You can buy a new GR86 and it’ll work right out of the box without any tinkering.
A possible advantage is that the Porsche has finished depreciating, so in 5 years time it will still be worth $30k (perhaps more).
The risk is you'll have spent the depereciation (prehaps more) of the GR86 on maintaining the 944
I own an 89 S2 and a 2013 BRZ set up for TT track with over 10K in suspension, braking and tuning. BRZ is definitely more lively on the track but the S2 is my preferred road car.
If you guys ever want to come out to Washington to drive an ae86 for comparison to the GR86 let me know.
Really neat video and great deep dive. Cool thing is I own both a first gen 86 and a 944.
But I went a different path which might be interesting others.
On my frs I bought used for 22k cdn put a sbd turbo on for 6k and my labour, Nvidia exhaust for 600, flash tablet for 500 for tuning, 1000 in new lightened flywheel, stage 1 clutch, clutch fork from verus, tob cause tob failed; 250 hood vents, 200 catch can, 1600 wheels with 245's, I'm 308 hp and 245 tq to the wheels and that ain't 60k
As for my 944, I'm fixing its power deficiency with a 5.7L ls1 swap with Texas performance conversion kit.
I agree though an S2 was better than the turbo in my opinion.