Hope you guys enjoyed this short series! I plan on doing a live stream with my good friend Adam Coleman from Tru ID soon to discuss the main objections to my videos, to cover some of the things I didn’t have the time/space to say in the videos, and also respond to what I would consider the best objections to my videos. So stay tuned for that as well!
Whaddo You Meme?? I really want to know what you think Of Kanye’s Church Service or Sunday service as he calls it- I get a bad feeling about it- Am I Wrong for thinking it isn’t praise AT ALL/ especially with mixing the secular music...
Nice! I made some of the same points to another ‘OTsaysSlaveryOK’ type in another context. Nice to see the argument that ancient displaced persons could either be servants, beggars, or whores. It’s very powerful. It’s only in very recent history that there has been anything like a politically empowered underclass. So it would have been much more cruel for YHWH to NOT allow and regulate bond-servanthood. Also great job pointing out the anachronism of back-projecting racially based slavery onto the Torah.
So I'm an atheist that viewed your responses and I'm gonna start by saying had this been in an offical debate you may have beaten Cosmicskeptic. However I do see some flaws in your logic at the same time. I dont doubt for a moment the foreigners that came as immigrants were treated well and like equals to the hebrews but I believe that the verses saying to treat foreigners with love and remember you were once foreigners etc. Only applied to immigrants and exodus 21:24 only applied to first class citizens. U use that verse to say that abusing a slave was taboo but I'm positive that the verses only applied to first class citizens and not slaves. If harming slaves was illegal exodus 21: 20-21 wouldn't be so specific and just say not to harm your slaves in general. Ephesians 6:5 and Luke 12: 47-48 doesn't sound like it was made for ppl that weren't being abused. The verse speaking of the year of jubilee u say foreign slaves were also set free but the verse distinctively says Hebrew and u provide no text saying foreigners were also free so that relays on assumption. The numbers 31 situation is still immoral because u cant justify the murder of the young boys and none virgin women who didn't participate in the adultery. As far as the virgin girls go I have to address again with u that a choice and an ultimatum r 2 separate things. Marriage because your home was destroyed and u r now financially dependent to someone is not a choice and still rape. Plus if God was against raping slaves he would've chimed in when Abraham came on to Hagar. Sure the commandments weren't written yet but he's omniscient soooooo yeah. Also God proves inconsistent because Solomon should've shared the same fate as those Hebrew men that were killed in numbers. I can play devil's advocate and say that all these verses r supposed to be interpreted the way u present though and we still cant call it moral because this is a definite exploitation of the lower class. Both God and "wise" should've seen that. This whole conversation is putting the cart before the horse because we have no contemporary evidence to cross reference Exodus or numbers. If we cant definitively figure out where these text come from then we cant say that Moses and the events of Mt. Sinai happened calling into question if these verses r divinely inspired and we dont have to trip about numbers 31 because it likely didn't happen. Also u can't come at Cosmic for believing subjective morality and then require context to justify the bible. You're literally just confirming that its subjective.
I'm an atheist but after watching so many apologetics videos, including yours, I think i'm starting to change my mind. But out of all the other videos that I watched, you videos have been some of the most convincing. Slavery was the one thing in the bible that was keeping me from being a christian. But now I have changed my mind. Thank you.
@@johndank2209 I’m not sure John, i suppose you could ask one of the atheists on this sight, they seem to know more about biblical matters more than anyone else 😎
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 opinions are like but holes everyone has one and they all stink. If you don't think so, stick your finger up yours then sniff it and tell me if it does..
That’s why it’s good to see both sides of the argument CS seem to be in the right, but after learning the historian context and hearing the rebuttal by WDYM the Christina view seems like the sincere and truthful winner:
@@Dorkeydaze But in the end, Whaddo admits that the Bible does support slavery; he just uses other words and tries to justify the different forms. But it doesn't matter if they are PoWs or more or less voluntarily agreed to enter bond servitude. It doesn't matter if they were treated better than African slaves in the US or if there were *some* benefits (compared to the alternative at the time) to being a slave. It's still people being unfree. Sure, there may have been a death penalty on kidnapping free countrymen or their slaves, but you can't get away from the fact that you were allowed to take and buy slaves from other countries. CS asked why God didn't outright ban owning other people, and all we get is excuses. Shameful!
@@disrupt94 Thanks for the reply. I finally finished listening through DH’s response video. I am not persuaded by his arguments. Scholars in the field should certainly be listened to and respected, but they aren’t the sole arbiters regarding exegesis of the texts, and I think DH is willing to overlook some passages in the OT in deference to a scholar’s opinion, particularly regarding God’s repeated reminders to the Israelites to remember that they once were slaves. The boundaries put on masters certainly reflect this, and DH doesn’t argue against it until the issue of runaway slaves comes up. In this regard, he defers to other scholars who point out that such a passage, should it be applied to all slaves in Israel, would undermine (chattel) slavery in Israel, and therefore must refer to Hebrew (debt) slaves only. But here I think it was the intention of the Law for Israelite masters to remember that they were, as a people, once brutally enslaved, and that all passages that might soften slavery should be taken that way, even if it may ultimately result in the demise of slavery. After all, the productivity of the Israelite nation explicitly rested on obedience to YHWH and His subsequent blessing, not on the backs of slaves. He interprets Israelite law and custom in the context of other cultures, even where they differ, but he should look within Israelite culture to see the religious grounding for their Laws and how that makes them, in some ways, different than the surrounding nations. I am also not convinced about his handling of the issue regarding prohibitions against kidnapping people. He seems to narrow it when I don’t see, and other Biblical scholars don’t see, a reason to narrow it. I will take seriously the provision to treat the foreigner as the native seriously, and not seek exemptions except where explicitly stated. I do appreciate his goal of not softening the issue of slavery in Israel and the ANE. There may be some of that going on among apologists, but that is a gray area, and one that the OT itself may have aimed at indirectly.
Ludvig is right!! Too bad Whaddo You Mean couldn't go into the future and watch Digital Hammurabi's (Josh Bowen) critique of his videos. Josh Bowen actually speaks and writes Hebrew and is a Ancient Near East Scholar. 2 points, so the virgin girls were allowed to live but the all the young boys were killed BUT it's not about sex. Lol, riiiight. Also, guess where else kidnapping was illegal? The South during the trans-Atlantic slave trade era AND ancient Babylon (from the Hammurabi Code). And they both still had a thriving slave trade.
Exodus 21:7-When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. As you see it's not about selling oneself, the bible allows men to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
hey, I'm an ex Muslim was wondering if u can help me learn more about Christianity that would be great ... cuz I really like the way u explain stuff :)
check out Inspiring Philosophy channel.. He explains things like the idea of the trinity, hell etc' with clear minded and fun videos. Note: I am not a chriatian but rather a Jew.
Welcome brother, Luke 15 verse 4-7 says 3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. I tell you we all are rejoicing in you coming into Christ. Let you find peace and happiness in your life. May the lord bless you in Jesus name.
10 minute Bible hour Mike Winger ravi zacharias cold case christianity frank turek desiring god islam critiqued (has also interesting bible stuff) Often it's also helpful to look at their recommended Channels on their TH-cam Page.
The last part almost made me cry, the part where you mentioned no slave, nor free, for we are all one in Christ. And I really loved the series, it has opened my eyes a lot to how God expects His people to treat foreigners. Before I was a Christian I had such strong viewpoints on immigration and refugees and I’m half asian myself, my dad is an immigrant to Australia (where I’m born) but of course, with God’s Grace I can see that all people, bondage, free, women, men, Jew, Greek, black, white, asian, Hispanic need the gospel. Our race and our status won’t get us right with God, only Jesus can ❤️
If you watch the documentary FOOD Inc., they even show that there are food companies who need cheap labor who put ads for jobs down in Mexico, then they even send buses to pick them up. But then at the same time the companies work with the local cops to "tip them off" to a small amount of illegal immigants at a time. I think because they want to get younger labor. But they don't arrest the business men doing all this. Says a lot.
Temi Abiloye I was making a joke to Mike because he presented a large amount of evidence to Matt Dillahunty in their debate just for Matt to pull a retarded move in saying “You’re just making claims” he also pointed out his poor understanding of how History, & historicity work. In short he doesn’t want to accept the truth so to him, the evidence doesn’t matter.
@Listen To Reason ahh ok. Whats your point? Another adhominem attack from you eh. Just insults. Ok. Nice. Yup I bought books regarding history and philosophy. Have you? Hehehehe. You are very funny.
People don’t seem to like historical and literary context. Nor do they like knowing the genres. Atheists or skeptics just pick and choose all the time. Sometimes our fellow Christians will do the same. Great job with this video.
Further context: before the mentioned evil behavior of the midianites, Midian enjoyed an ally status because Moses married into the family of a Midian high priest. Moses own wife was a Midianite. Moses didn't hate Midianites. The people he loved most in his private life were midianites.
@Me gusta Jesùs Great! Glad to help. Obviously my comment is only my opinion and not an actual argument or rebuttal and it wasnt intended to be, but your sarcasm is noted henceforth. (always wanted to use that word)
No, it well and truly isn't. Note how he has to resort to round about word play to avoid the simple fact that your god thought it was imperative to craft rules about eating shell fish but not to say that slavery is immoral and should never be done. He then comments that passages like Exodus 21:26-27 magically erase passages like Exodus 21:20-21. So one passage negates the other which is why they put it in the bible in the first place? Such is the intellect of an all knowing law giver? Indeed. Which I'm sure is why the bible tells slaves to submit to your masters both kind and cruel in 1 Peter 2:18-19. And this all depends on a god that no one has demonstrated to exist. What may I ask is "good" about believing in a pro slavery mystical being with no credible evidence?
@Icy if they wish to try and justify things like slavery, genocide, and bigotry against gays then they have a right to their opinion. Much as I disagree with it. But that opinion is based on the belief that their god exists and this is his will. Thus far no one has demonstrated any god to exist. Yet despite this lack of credible evidence they still claim their god is true even though they haven't demonstrate it to be true. I have a problem with that. Not just the lack of being held to a standard of evidence but also with their horrible views. Hence, why I am compelled to debate such topics.
This is what most non-believers do , they take 1 verse run with it without studying the entire topic. Let's hope he's open minded enough to see where he was wrong
@@Toviyah another I saw was that Jesus and John were in a gay relationship because" John was the disciple that Jesus loved" and " he was reclining on Jesus' bossom".
Delani Pillai What do you mean? Because you don’t even have to take the Quran out of context for it to be used for evil? And I’m sure Hinduism is was n similar water.
This was an incredibly edifying video. Well worth the time of viewing ... and even taking notes. I offer my heartfelt thanks for Whaddo You Meme's scholarship and his ability to put his explanations in an easily understood form.
You have a unique way of setting forth your work, in an easily understandable fashion. Moreover, your scholarly research is flavored with an incredible insight into the subject. Special thanks for your efforts. May the Lord bless and keep you and yours.
Just signed up on Patreon. Praying that your subscriber base grows by leaps and bounds. You have a strong, clear, knowledgeable, caring voice to reach the Millennials and Gen X. You also remind, encourage and teach me as a Baby Boomer. It is obvious you put a great deal of work into your videos. Thanks!
@J.W. H. no christian ever addresses that passage because there is so little room to twist the literal meaning and weasel out of it. The passage explicitly condones kidnapping a woman after murdering her family, raping her and making her a sex slave.
@J.W. H. Yes her family was murdered by you and your people during war. You take her captive and if you find her attractive you "make her your wife". I dont know about you but this does not at all sound like consensual marriage to me. Im sure serial killers and psychopaths who have women locked in their basement consider them their "wives". How do you think the woman feels. Her friends and family have just been slaughtered and now she is forced to "marry" her captor just so he can have a concubine to fuck. The woman is even dehumanised by forcing her to shave her head and remove the clothes of her culture. This is a textbook definition of a sex slave.
A very well thought out takedown of a sophomoric atheist argument masquerading as 'indefensible". This is very good work bro! I would click the like button multiple times if I could.
except it still is indefensible. Note how whaddo you meme NEVER justified the beating of the slaves. He just focused on cosmic sceptics choice of words, he never refuted that beating slaves was allowed. He's also on dodgy ground regarding the bible comdemning rape. Rape is seeminlgy an offense when it's done to a woman with a husband (the owner of her) or otherwise her father (also an owner). The offense is thus, not towards the woman but first and foremost towards her male owner. And since you are the male owner of a slave, you can't commit an offense towards yourself, well you do the math. Please note that a rapist can pay the victims father 50 silver shekels and end up marrying her. The girl is NEVER mentioned to have any choice. This is clearly a "you break it, you buy it" mentality.
Comment Freely Evolution not only gave rise to violence and hatred but also to love and compassion. You can critique violent behavior even when it's natural. Natural doesn't automatically mean good. Morals don't need God. Morals can be determined by the extent of joy or suffering certain actions bring to the world.
@Blaster Masterwell its one thing to say I was taught by these scholars, I have these degrees or I've read these books. Its another thing to come with actual well thought arguments. We're all eyes. We're ready to read such irrefutable arguments. Bring some arguments to refute the arguments like well thought out Christians like this one brings. Otherwise, your claims of knowledge and expertise are just smoke and mirrors. There are scholars, clergy and atheists that come to all kinds of differing conclusions and are just not convincing and yes, lack scholarly rationale even though they are "so called experts"
Your two-year-old video really, really helped me! I have been a Christian since I was 14 years old. And while I have read the Bible more than once, these verses have caused so much trouble for me. I actually spent three years in Bible college, and maybe I just forgot what I learned there about this (I was kinda young and didn't really want to be there so I didn't study as hard as I should have). Your video series on slavery finally helped me to rediscover/find the ]perspective I sorely needed. I'm relatively new to your channel, but I'm so glad I subscribed. Thank you for doing this.
I would think a person with a British accent would know the English language better. The word "kidnapped" didn't exist when the KJV was translated. "Stealeth away" is certainly a correct phrase for "kidnapping". "Kidnapping"'s origin is the late 17th century (the later half of 1600s), is slang, and is not 1611 language.
We NEED MORE knowledgeable Christians like YOU, exposing the MANY HOLES in popular Atheists arguments! In our 'soundbite' culture, the general public is being misled by these popular Atheists.
Your comment means a LOT to me. THANKS! If it wasn't for people like Jon McCray putting in the hard time and effort to produce these videos, many of the shallow arguments out there, would keep on gaining momentum... unchecked.
Ultimately though, the bible DOES support slavery no matter how much you want to sugarcoat the terms (and yes, I've watched every response Whaddo you meme did on the subject) You CAN own humans as property (the definition of slavery) You CAN beat them with either arbitary limitation, or ovious ways to avoid having to let them go. Either one is disgusting. Whaddo you meme NEVER accounted for this, but rather just focused on the specific phrasing of cosmic sceptic. You CAN buy a slave from an allready enslaved foreigner, and force upon a child a supposed "ownership of consent" as if any child could conceptualize what it means. While Whaddo you meme has a done a fantastic job, he has just softened the blow some what.
@@disrupt94 if you look at any time in history where slavery was in place it couldve been vastly improved with the biblical regulations. I honestly couldnt care less about your arbitrary whingeing.
@@danielomitted1867 " f you look at any time in history where slavery was in place it couldve been vastly improved with the biblical regulations" Even if true, how is that supposed to help? "our kind of horrible slavery is superior" I mean really?
@@disrupt94 as in the regulations were a good thing. As in the regulations are better than no regulations. But you dont care to have a fair and balanced perspective on this, you just want something to whinge over and I just dont care about your whining.
@@danielomitted1867 " as in the regulations were a good thing. As in the regulations are better than no regulations. " You know what would have been even better? NOT HAVING SLAVERY AT ALL. your lack of perspective is astonishing. " and I just dont care about your whining." Yes, anybody that has the gall to criticize your position is whinging, there's absolutely no chance that it's YOU who are wrong in your conviction and should be self-critical? And you do care, that's why you keep replying.
heh Cosmic Skeptic: "This appears to be a translation issue...he's using the NIV but the KJV says..." ...a little while later... Cosmic Skeptic: "Well the subheading [not part of the biblical text] in the NIV says..." KJV-only atheist would have had less dishonesty/cognitive dissonance 'Cos, y'know, Moses spaketh Jacobean English Forsooth!
Excellent apologetics. Thank you. Also remember that Jesus said some laws of Moses were a concession to people's Hardness of Heart. Jesus made these laws obsolete and showed the spirit not the letter of the Law.
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 It is not like His morality changed is more like He just raised expectations. The same way you expect your kid to peform better at school now he has a provate tutor ( Holy Spirit ).
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 you’re misleading. The phrase “God’s morality” is so vague. Yes, the regulatory practices stemming from God’s moral perspective do change. But the Bible narrative makes clear an ongoing and unchanging effort of order and regulation in society.
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 His moral didn't change, but he couldn't just come to a society built by barbarians and change everything from scrach. Many things were tolerated by God at that specific society and context, while a huge many things were changed drastically. The Law of Moses was NOT the ultimate and perfect law. That is why Jesus said "I didn't come to abolish the law, i came to fullfill It". He came to push further progress to perfect the law, which is the New Testament.
Listening to it again, I'm amazed how people keep missing the part where Israelites are also punished as slaves so many times... Egypt? Babylonia? Persia? and multiple times that God commands that Israelites treat others as their own, since they have been in slavery.
Atheist LOVE to scream "why did God killed egyptian childreeeeen?", while being abortionists... but that aside (actualy - no, not aside, what is wrong with them, how much more inconsistent they are?), they NEVER mention that EGYPTIANS firts were killing jewwish children. Purposely. Children. They think why Moses were send floating in the basket? For fun? Of who? Even the firstborn is not necessarilly a little child, and when God does, say, flood, His target is not children but EVERYONE, not just purposely killing babies (they love saying that God kills children and giving debilic examples... i wonder how come when God plays God it is evil, but when 90% of abortions are done without reason - it is a moral right? And how can Creator kill when He annihilate His creation? Is this, ugh... killing? How?), but egyptians just went and killed chilren purposely. And NO ONE cares. Same with "ye are gods" verse. They accept that one as no problem and trying to use it as "there, i don't have to listen to God", lol what? Nt only these gods are only Israel judges, but even if so - then it is for you, for god, your God in the book from wich you wrote that God says that you are gods, told you: YOU god - REPENT; YOU god - obey; and so on, you "god" must do ALL Bible tells you to, lol, including obedience and repenting and stop doing what you do and colliding witht he sinfull world. This... this is so wrong of any people to act/be like that, this is just exactly what Bible tells us about the world and their rejection of truth because it shows them who they really are, they only suppot and proove Jesus and whole Bible amd it's message to be true. Jesus Christ is God of gods, Lord of lords, amen, amen.
@@theTYTAN3 They actually will not be punished if they won't follow steps of their fathers: 14. Now, lo, *if he beget a son,* that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, *and considereth, and doeth not such like…* (Ezekiel 18:14) 17. That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; *he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.* (Ezekiel 18:17) 19. Yet say ye, *Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father?* When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, *he shall surely live.* (Ezekiel 18:19) 21. *But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed,* and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, *he shall surely live, he shall not die.* 22. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23. *Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?* (Ezekiel 18:21-23) Why haven't you listened to advice of this boy in the video? He told you - don''t use futile attacks of they are easilly countered like that with another passage and is undistortable. It is abut to decieve - if you can distort passages, then go, if not, then don't. Why so? Because if verse is weak and easy to be answered - you will RUIN their reputatuion... and this is MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR THEM, because they are doing PROPAGANDA, and propaganda CANNOT have bad reputation, because it's all propaganda, as decietfull instrument, has. There is no truth in atheism. Or... whatever actually.
Agree. Both that he's a boy (and being praised for "standing out" at such young age... right, and here is the resault, btw stand out fo what? Poor atheism? oh lol, what is in their heads...), and that he makes things up, and i am sure that it is on purpose. Expecially this... eyebrow play... ahhh, kids... always emotional and easy to influence, with emotions too.
Because you don't understand your own bible that's why you were so confused. You'll turn a blind eye when the cognitive dissonance becomes to hard to bear. Sex slavery was very real. Of course, it was hidden under the guise of sham marriages. Imagine marrying the person who slaughtered your whole family? You think everyone of them was for it? Even if they agreed it was just so they didn't die in the desert. Then they'd have to have sex with these men who killed all their family and friends. Open your eyes. It was sex slavery dressed up as marriage.
I think I'd agree that he's (Cosmic Skeptic) reading INTO the text. In my experience, a lot of atheist and secular humanist ideas and philosophy are logical and make sense, but only with certain presuppositions which may be wrong. This to me is a case of this. If you're of the presumption that the Hebrew slaves are to be treated differently than other slaves, then you might see the other points Cosmic Skeptic brings up. I'm in some ways amazed at how deep and complex the Bible can be, but even more amazed at how radical the ideas God brought into the world were for that time. When you put into historical context widows, the fatherless, war, slavery, etc. it helps me appreciate both God and His people. Loved this series. It, like your other videos, has helped to think more deeply and clearly about my faith. Gracias hermano.
@@whatwecalllife7034 define property. What does being property mean, as both the owner and in terms of BEING property? ( he literally explains this in his videos.)
I am stunned that he blamed it on translation. It’s almost as if he thinks the words just come from different translations and that the translations themselves don’t have a source. Go to the Hebrew! Wow.
Alex managed to get seriously out of his depth. He's a really intelligent guy but the complexity of the field (ancient law codes, slavery in modern and ancient history, ethics) combined with the his extremely tendentious approach to reading and arguing through the texts makes him look really foolish the closer you inspect his arguments.
He definitely isnt intelligent, hes a rhetorician who makes videos about how morality is subjective, yet the bible is immoral His arrogance is almost autistic in how much it lacks self reflection
@@life-live- I disagree with virtually all of his conclusions and don't much like the way he goes about arguing (he approaches very very important topics as if nobody has written much on them before) but I'm perfectly willing to give him some credit for being relatively smart. Being simultaneously smart and wrong is a big problem as it allows crackpot rationalisations and rhetorical trickery, but it's fair to say he's intelligent.
@@Mountainmaniavision I agree with what you say, I also believe a lot of scientist are like him with their confusing rationality coupled with complicated formulas that leave the average citizen ostracized from any discussion of life or Earth And because of this perceived intellectual gap the average citizen has stopped thinking for themsleves and submitted their learning to those said scientist who feed them false teachings One could say they are nefariously intelligent
Obviously if you have to defend the Bible with so much extraneous research then it FAILS as the word of God because it can be so easily misunderstood. If it was the perfect word of God then it could NOT be misunderstood. Don’t you see the problem?????
1 Timothy 1:9-10 "We also know that the law is not made for the righteous but the lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and nonreligious, for those who kill their parents, for murderers, for adulterers and the sexually immoral, for *slave traders* and liars and perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine" Sounds like a pretty explicit condemnation of slavery to me
Yeah, he really proved that Midianite women were bad. But failed to mention why all the young boys were killed. And also failed to realise that it is sexual assault to test whether a woman is a virgin or not against their will.
Apart From The Obvious Huh, where are you getting your moral standpoint from if God doesn’t exist. If God doesn’t exist and morality is subjective, then all we have is your opinion, so why should we believe you?
@@whatwecalllife7034 And Moses didn't rape his wife. In fact, I don't see any mention of how Zipporah, Moses' wife, was forced to be with Moses. It was all consensual, so I'm not getting your point.
Not to mention that the Midianites where relatives, they were sons of Abraham just as Ishmael and Isaac where. But through Abraham's second wife (after Sarah died) Keturah. Kind of hard to be racist against your own race. You can try to blame tribalism, but there is no hint of that on the Israelites' part.
Jon I was so confident in your ability to destroy his arguments that I decided to live dangerously and liked the video before I watched it . Wow was not disappointed, wish I could like it again ....wait a minute I can ...👍👍👍👍👍👍
I'm so glad you made this video - I find it really hard to watch people like cosmic skeptic as the effort required to try and correct the myriad misinterpretations is so massive I can't contemplate it, but I can't bear the frustration of seeing so many false claims go unanswered. I still find it curious the nature of the blindness and deafness that is upon those who "seeing do not see, hearing do not hear" - there is something about the smugness that I find difficult to tolerate with grace. I will continue to pray for God's grace in this, as the truth was once veiled to me also, and yet gradually it was made clear. It is better I think for people to be engaging - however erroneously - with the bible than to view it as irrelevant, so I am sure God is at work in this. Thanks for your time making these videos.
In México the mayan revolts began as a religious rebelion, because the bible says that they can not be slave of the spaniards, a rebelión that lasted centuries
Hey my brother in Christ much love sent your way and this series was just awesomely done. You pointing out how ignorant the person is that made the sinful calms against the living Word of God! Thank you for caring about the honor of our God! May God bless you brother! Happy Easter!!!!
Cosmic Skeptic thinks nationality and race mean the same thing? He should come to Africa and see how the majority of people are of the same race despite belonging to different nations.
I am rewatching this series now. And oh my, I even took notes because for some reason this conversation seems to be coming up a lot with these tiktok atheists or deconstructionists (as they call themselves). Thank you brother. You most def addressed all the queries they always bring up.
Around 12:30 , 13:30 - prisoners of war Around 15:50 - is the distinction between Hebrew and foreign slave overblown? Around 18:18 - debunking the racism claim
Can you imagine if all of the US could read back during slavery, ( literary rate was only 10-15% if this high, depending where you lived), AND they read the Bible. ( 🎙 Mic Drop! ) PS- thank you for backing Alan up. I love both you guys. God bless you!
A galaxy of thanks for this excellent presentation! I will definitely watch all parts of series (again) with my loved ones who are skeptical regarding this topic. May God continue to bless your ministry and will continue to pray without ceasing for all of God’s children 🙏🏾
I absolutely LOVED this series I literally feel God being exalted!!!! Through this series it is constantly showing God’s Grace, love, protection, and redeeming actions. Glory be to God 🙌🏾 You did great in this video thank you. Not to mention it was hilarious great editing 😅.
Hi brother 🙂 fancy seeing you here... I often get to know fellow Christians on one channel, only to bump into them on another channel. Hmm... I wonder if that means very few Christians are active commenters. I can't remember exactly, but I must have discovered this channel when David Wood was on. I've only been around here for short while... but I highly recommend it. David on the other hand is an acquired taste... If you know what I mean.
@@evidentone9teen259 hey nice seeing you here! Once in a great while I will bump into somebody else on TH-cam but it's always fun to do so! it's kind of like you're at the store and you bumped into somebody that you know! there is definitely a lot of good content out there that I wish so many more Christians that I know would invest the time into watching or listening to and I wish I would bump into them more online! Well given if they leave a comment anyway!
I found out about this channel by watching I think it was Mike Winger, I watch his videos every now and then and had been from years ago when his channel was a lot smaller
I dont remember the exact passage but at one time the Israelites begged God to save them from invading armies bent on murdering and enslaving them, they promised that if he would help them they would set all their slaves free, after God saved them, they quickly forgot their promises and did not free the slaves, the Bible says that the cries of the slaves reached God and the consequence for breaking their word was that the most of the Israelites were carried away in captivity to Babylon for 70 years , just long enough for those who broke their promise to God to die off.
God isn’t pro slavery after all he tolerated it so long as it wasn’t abusive, and the servant or slave was treated with dignity, humanity, and not as proper.
Flatheads Rebuked Exactly. God wasn’t pro polygamy or divorce either, but since the Israelites we’re so hard hearted he allowed them a way in which to do it while regulating it to allow the women liberties. Jesus reversed both of these and flat out rejected polygamy and allowed one reason for divorce, adultery committed by your spouse, though still preached that you should forgive all sins committed against you so the preference would be you not get divorced. We see this with Jesus a lot. Increasing the expectation God has for us. In the OT God promises the Jews that if they did good, he would bless them. God allowing things he didn’t like was actually showing his grace and in turn allowing them to be blessed more. Of course they still couldn’t do right so que the Son of God, Jesus to do it right for them and us for that matter.
I love the idea that this white guy from Great Britain is trying to school this black man from America on slavery. Oh yeah and he is an atheist critic of the Bible and the black man is a student of the Bible. Guess who is going to get it right? (BTW, I have followed Allen Parr and like his videos) Thanks to Jon McCray for setting the record straight.
Except that What Do You Meme claims that the American slave trade was based on skin color. It wasn't. It was based off the one drop of blood rule. You could be pale as snow, but if your great-grandfather was black, you considered black as well. And if your great-grandfather was a black slave, but every other line of your family is white, you were to be a black slave. As for the rest of the video, Who Do You Meme ignores the regulations put in place for the virgin prisoners of war. Her "husband" was to shave her head, and he could sleep with her after she mourned her parents for a month. There's absolutely nothing in there about what the virgin girl wants. So it makes sense to infer that these girls were, in fact, used as sex slaves. And besides, how could you even tell who the virgins were? Did they just go around in battle and ask a hot girl whether or not she was a virgin after slaughtering her family? Or did they round up all the hot girls and check their hymens? Neither method would have worked.
I watched this series for the first time three years ago. Then I was really starting to question my faith because of the slavery critique and these videos really helped me!! Now I’m watching them again three years later and I’m fascinated by the fact that I have learned so much these past years and that I understand so much more of what Jon McCray is talking about! Thank God!
In the following Biblical passage, which category of slave is Canaan, indentured servant, foreign servants, or the bad guy slave? 18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the whole earth. 20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked. 24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.” 26 He also said, “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. 27 May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.”
This was simply phenomenal beautifully done....been going back and forth with a friend of mine and now i believe this video series will end the Bible being supporting slavery discussion once and for all
Hey man I love your videos, but a quick critique is that eye contact with the camera is really important it makes the videos more personal. Otherwise this video is dope keep up the great content!
22:30. "In summary, my video today serves two purposes - 1. That I haven't got a clue what I am talking about, and 2. I am always going to want to remain an atheist, so I will keep listening to lies fed me by Dawkins."
I saw a Muslim attack the bible by using Numbers 31, and I was initially worried and thought he had a point. But after seeing the Christian defense I have definitely changed my mind. Reading the book in it’s proper context does wonders. Great video series, you have just earned my subscription.
When I was very little my sister two years older than me read the Bible to me as a bedtime story. She read that verse “stealeth a man” and I asked what does that mean? She said you can’t steal a man, or basically kidnap a man. I remember that so vividly. She was around 8-9. So I think steal a man is the same as kidnap.
Cosmic Skeptic has to just be parroting other Atheists if he can make claims that Parr is reading things out of context and he's not. There is no other explanation.
could you do some videos reacting to genetically modified skeptics videos? been watching some of his videos and you can tell hes very smart and knowledgeable but it would be interesting to see what you would say :)
I find that GMS to have the same level of arrogant confidence as Cosmic Skeptic, but with even less understanding of the Christian theology. This is really surprising given the fact that he only recently left Christianity.
Junah Birchwater Yup just goes to show false” conversation. Cosmic Skeptic grew up Catholic so I’m not so surprised he’s lost and is now anti Christian.
Jon Son I agree! Funny thing is I meant to say he grew up Catholic I’ll have to edit my original reply. And yeah you have a good point people miss which is that there’s a difference between growing up with Christian parents, or culturally Christian, and actually being a Christian.
This Cosmic Skeptic dude shows such a lack of historical context. You're right, he is reading into the text what he wants it to say without understanding, or even trying to understand, what the world was like at that time. The end was absolutely ridiculous. He actually had the audacity to tell people to READ THE CONTEXT. LMAO, what a clown 😂
I also noticed at around 11:16 that he mentions this verse is only against stealing a free man or a man who is already a slave, what does this leave?... People who willingly sell themselves into slavery? This also proves that it was volitional because this is the only other way you could get a slave.
Leviticus 25 39-46 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: 40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile. 41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return. 42 For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen. 43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God. 44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. 45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. 46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
Jon says, "And we already know from not only Deuteronomy 21, but also the purity laws that were given to the Israel soldiers that r*pe was obviously not an option." Verse 10-14 talks about making a woman be a wife. Did anyone bother to ask her first if she wanted to marry someone from the same people group who killed here family? To be fair, it does say not to treat her as a slave (at least if the man was not pleased with her), but it's because he has dishonored her. Why does dishonoring happen at all? At the very least, this could have said "Do not have take her in unless she is willing. Do not force her to be your wife"... but it didn't. If this is the best verse we have about this subject, that's not very much. Does anyone have any better verses making it clear to not r*pe? Does the Bible anywhere specifically say to get consent?
Thanks for providing context and informing all of us brother👏🏽👍🏽 Edit: 23:34 oh, for real 😳 that’s crazy that they tried to hid the Bible for the slaves..
Scholars such as Josh Bowen describe how Biblical slavery laws were similar to the other ancient near east laws at the time and the antebellum south laws in America before the civil war. Slavery (indentured servitude and chattel slavery) is immoral by today's standards - most reasonable people accept this as a given. I'm fine with subjective morality - we don't accept slavery now, but back then it was typical...that doesn't make slavery morally right...but it was accepted back then as normal in their time... ...simply more evidence that the Bible was written by men in their time rather than inspired by God! God made rules about not mixing crops and fabrics and keeping slaves in the old testament, but didn't rescind any of these in the new testament - Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them". How do you justify Exodus 21 7-11 "and if a man sells his daughter as a slave she is not to be set free as male slaves are, if she is sold to someone who intends to make her his wife, but he doesn't like her, then she is to be sold back to her father."...do you have daughters? - how would you like them treated as "property", would you sell them?... Or Leviticus 25:46? "You may leave them (slaves) to your sons after you to inherit as property; you can make them slaves for life. " For any "plain reading" of the old testament passages regarding slavery - slavery is never condemned. Apologists like to say the bible placed rules/regulations around slavery, but these rules were based on male Israelite slaves only being set free after 6 years, not the case for female slaves, or chattel slaves "taken from the heathen that surround you" Leviticus 25:44. Jubilee (every 50 years) set slaves free - it's not clear if that included chattel slaves and female slaves, and tough luck if you were enslaved 1 year after Jubilee :( ...and life expectancy back then was around 50 years :( The contortions apologists use to to say, "the bible doesn't condone slavery" is staggering. Any plain reading of the old testament provides rules for owning slaves, including it's OK to beat them as long as they don't die in a couple of days (Exodus 21:20-21), and they are regarded as property to pass onto your sons as inheritance (Leviticus 25:46)... ...nowhere in the New Testament does it say, "slavery is wrong, don't do it"... ...and don't give me Paul's letter to Philemon - that was an individual plea for Onesimus the slave to be forgiven.
Love the series. Hope you pin this: why would God be ok with slavery when He reminded his people multiple times in OT that He has taken them out of slavery from Egypt?
This was masterful. Alex O’Connor still maintains arguments to this day and to be honest, did so quite effectively against Ben Shapiro, at least in terms of actual debate performance. I will admit that as a Christian these concepts have been very difficult to wrestle with. Thank you so much for showing how clear this can be.
Skeptics never take Skepticism to its logical conclusion. Why are Skeptics skeptical of everything except for Skepticism? If your gonna adopt Skepticism as a way of life, you should at least follow through by doubting Skepticism itself.
Icy Not at all. No one should have a skeptical attitude, skepticisms isn’t suppose to be active 25/7 but rather when it’s needed, in other skepticism ideally used as a tool rather than the way of viewing everything else, it quickly becomes circular.
Dickheads Rebuked all beliefs a circular no matter how how big it is it’s just about the quality of the circle. I don’t use attitude to me mean something that id on 24/7 I use it in reference to it being applied to specific situations. You can’t be skeptical about everything.
You know I just noticed, its a white man talking to a black man about slavery, and then another black man coming along and correcting the white man. Im just saying if we want to pull a race card, this gets pretty freaking obvious.
Finally a breath of fresh air away from the apostasy. I've been wanting some Arabic anr Hebrew terminology and context in my reading. Thanks so much for adding to my understanding of the word. All I gotta say is Amen brother, pray that things pan out and heal right. See you at the gates on up.✌2021 rapture seasons all be here and roaring.
Probably the most balanced and complete videos on Biblical "slavery" that i have seen. Great job! I will be referring any Atheist who want to argue the point to your videos!
Michael Deo: I'm a an atheist who has seen all these videos and all I see is a lot of religious sheeple tap dancing around the bible. Christianity is on a decline in this world.
@@sabin1166 I would say your looking at them through your bias then. The Bible actually predicts that during the end times there will be few in number who actually continue to follow the way of the Messiah. It's interesting that most people think "Christianity" is the representative of the Bible but it is a sect and while it does accept the Messiah it teaches many things against what the Messiah lived and taught. There are people who are coming out of the denominations and strive to live by what the Bible teaches, and follow the Messiah, walking as he walked. "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of Elohim and the faith of Yahushua." - Revelation 14:12 "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Master Yahushua Messiah and our gathering together to Him,...Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.- 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.- Matthew 7:13-14 So, don't be to encouraged that the majority of people reject the Bible because the Majority have been wrong in the past. It is the few who have looked for the truth and held on to it and changed the world. Interestingly, Islam is on the rise. I don't so a secular world being able to stop it as they easily fold and go along to get along. Shalom/Peace
@@sabin1166 Well...Christians tries to inform Facts about Christianity by explaining it Precisely without missing any Points....Now why this seems to you as Tap Dance, I dont Know..But i think, Maybe its because you are Listening to the Music of Atheism in the background everytime you try to Understand what Christianity is trying to Explain. Now..Until 2018 the data showed Christianity to be the Largest Religion in the World. So, im not sure how the Word Decline would fit in.
Atheists accuse Christians of nit-picking verses to follow but they nit-pick verses to criticize while ignoring any context whatsoever in the Bible. Great video man, very helpful! Keep it up!
Yeah, I know I am a year late, but just found your channel! BTW you and your wife are awesome!!! This was probably the most cohesive explanation of biblical historicity when dealing with slavery! Thank you! We are all called to rightly divide the Word of God and sir you've just done that! I am wondering however why this gentleman even cares being his main belief is morality is relative and there are no absolute truths! This is definitely irony at its finest, and a fine example of intellectual dishonesty!
I love your stuff, man. This stuff is so important. If we're to build our lives on the Bible, we have to be confident that it is, in fact, from God and is a reliable thing to build on.
Yeah, his "it's literally written in black and white" was really stupid. Assuming that he's not just stupid, one of the only other options is that he is purposefully misleading people. I don't think Socrates is necessarily the best to completely follow, but I think what he said hits the mark, "Meletus," or Cosmic Skeptic, "you don't care about the truth at all."
Uh, yeah that’s the point he’s an Antichrist, and anti-theist there is no such thing as an atheist both Biblically and Scientifically, this is why atheists spend most of there time attacking God and his followers.
Bryan Vega Mot What the Bible or even Science say in fact atheism is so unnatural that atheist have to force themselves to believe it no joke. You can research the matter yourself and btw CS admitted that he has or had a natural sense of God.
if Cosmic Skeptic was alive in the time of the old testament, he would either die in the wilderness or be killed by the pagan worshippers. He seems to think that ancient people had the same moral standards that we have. and that people were good and kind to one another.
Dickheads Rebuked 1) why should I care what the Bible says 2) what do you mean science says atheism is unnatural? 3) I don’t know what you’re implying when you say atheism is unnatural? Is it bad? Unnatural isn’t inherently bad. 4) atheism is just not being convinced that a god exists, so not believing.......
![[LIVE] BABYMONSTER(베이비몬스터) - DRIP | 두시탈출 컬투쇼](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UG05pxLGwzc/mqdefault.jpg)
Hope you guys enjoyed this short series! I plan on doing a live stream with my good friend Adam Coleman from Tru ID soon to discuss the main objections to my videos, to cover some of the things I didn’t have the time/space to say in the videos, and also respond to what I would consider the best objections to my videos. So stay tuned for that as well!
Whaddo You Meme?? I really want to know what you think Of Kanye’s Church Service or Sunday service as he calls it- I get a bad feeling about it- Am I Wrong for thinking it isn’t praise AT ALL/ especially with mixing the secular music...
Nice! I made some of the same points to another ‘OTsaysSlaveryOK’ type in another context. Nice to see the argument that ancient displaced persons could either be servants, beggars, or whores. It’s very powerful. It’s only in very recent history that there has been anything like a politically empowered underclass. So it would have been much more cruel for YHWH to NOT allow and regulate bond-servanthood. Also great job pointing out the anachronism of back-projecting racially based slavery onto the Torah.
So I'm an atheist that viewed your responses and I'm gonna start by saying had this been in an offical debate you may have beaten Cosmicskeptic. However I do see some flaws in your logic at the same time. I dont doubt for a moment the foreigners that came as immigrants were treated well and like equals to the hebrews but I believe that the verses saying to treat foreigners with love and remember you were once foreigners etc. Only applied to immigrants and exodus 21:24 only applied to first class citizens. U use that verse to say that abusing a slave was taboo but I'm positive that the verses only applied to first class citizens and not slaves. If harming slaves was illegal exodus 21: 20-21 wouldn't be so specific and just say not to harm your slaves in general. Ephesians 6:5 and Luke 12: 47-48 doesn't sound like it was made for ppl that weren't being abused. The verse speaking of the year of jubilee u say foreign slaves were also set free but the verse distinctively says Hebrew and u provide no text saying foreigners were also free so that relays on assumption. The numbers 31 situation is still immoral because u cant justify the murder of the young boys and none virgin women who didn't participate in the adultery. As far as the virgin girls go I have to address again with u that a choice and an ultimatum r 2 separate things. Marriage because your home was destroyed and u r now financially dependent to someone is not a choice and still rape. Plus if God was against raping slaves he would've chimed in when Abraham came on to Hagar. Sure the commandments weren't written yet but he's omniscient soooooo yeah. Also God proves inconsistent because Solomon should've shared the same fate as those Hebrew men that were killed in numbers. I can play devil's advocate and say that all these verses r supposed to be interpreted the way u present though and we still cant call it moral because this is a definite exploitation of the lower class. Both God and "wise" should've seen that. This whole conversation is putting the cart before the horse because we have no contemporary evidence to cross reference Exodus or numbers. If we cant definitively figure out where these text come from then we cant say that Moses and the events of Mt. Sinai happened calling into question if these verses r divinely inspired and we dont have to trip about numbers 31 because it likely didn't happen. Also u can't come at Cosmic for believing subjective morality and then require context to justify the bible. You're literally just confirming that its subjective.
Just in case if some of us aren't able to catch the live stream, will you post the live stream on TH-cam?
I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for making this series!
I'm an atheist but after watching so many apologetics videos, including yours, I think i'm starting to change my mind. But out of all the other videos that I watched, you videos have been some of the most convincing. Slavery was the one thing in the bible that was keeping me from being a christian. But now I have changed my mind. Thank you.
Congratulations on being so open minded pal. Changing your mind is such a hard thing to do so great to hear!
Ask yourself why even the virgin men were killed. And also how were these women's virginities tested, especially in a time of war....
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 ok champ , why 🤔
@@markshaneh how would they test a female's virginity back then??
@@johndank2209 I’m not sure John, i suppose you could ask one of the atheists on this sight, they seem to know more about biblical matters more than anyone else 😎
As a black man who's ancestors were slaves, I love this video and how it shows how God was against the American slave trade
You know what else God is against, military women, and feminism in general.
This video gives no evidence that God was against the Transatlantic Slave Trade. I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion form this.
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 opinions are like but holes everyone has one and they all stink. If you don't think so, stick your finger up yours then sniff it and tell me if it does..
@@jacobitewiseman3696 this coming from a guy who's username is inspired by star wars LMAO
@@markcrawford4239 Opinions don't stink if they are based in reason and logic and aim to be as close to truth as possible.
Im not christian, and I generally agree with cosmic skeptic on most issues. But I have to say, this was a brilliant rebuttal.
Modest man
That’s why it’s good to see both sides of the argument CS seem to be in the right, but after learning the historian context and hearing the rebuttal by WDYM the Christina view seems like the sincere and truthful winner:
Decayed Knight go watch a real historian to see how wrong WDYM is
@@Dorkeydaze But in the end, Whaddo admits that the Bible does support slavery; he just uses other words and tries to justify the different forms. But it doesn't matter if they are PoWs or more or less voluntarily agreed to enter bond servitude. It doesn't matter if they were treated better than African slaves in the US or if there were *some* benefits (compared to the alternative at the time) to being a slave. It's still people being unfree. Sure, there may have been a death penalty on kidnapping free countrymen or their slaves, but you can't get away from the fact that you were allowed to take and buy slaves from other countries. CS asked why God didn't outright ban owning other people, and all we get is excuses. Shameful!
@@reformCopyright why is slavery wrong from CS's worldview?
Wow, just watched all three videos, that was impressive brother, keep doing what you are doing, the world needs more thinking Christians like you.
Thank you, brother, for this series! I am tired of hearing the uninformed attack Christianity, especially on slavery.
Mark in Montana yeah so am I.
It's not uninformed. Digital Hammurabi (an actual scholar) made a reponse to this video in which he explained why Whaddo you meme is misstaken.
@@disrupt94 Thanks for the reply. I finally finished listening through DH’s response video. I am not persuaded by his arguments. Scholars in the field should certainly be listened to and respected, but they aren’t the sole arbiters regarding exegesis of the texts, and I think DH is willing to overlook some passages in the OT in deference to a scholar’s opinion, particularly regarding God’s repeated reminders to the Israelites to remember that they once were slaves. The boundaries put on masters certainly reflect this, and DH doesn’t argue against it until the issue of runaway slaves comes up. In this regard, he defers to other scholars who point out that such a passage, should it be applied to all slaves in Israel, would undermine (chattel) slavery in Israel, and therefore must refer to Hebrew (debt) slaves only. But here I think it was the intention of the Law for Israelite masters to remember that they were, as a people, once brutally enslaved, and that all passages that might soften slavery should be taken that way, even if it may ultimately result in the demise of slavery. After all, the productivity of the Israelite nation explicitly rested on obedience to YHWH and His subsequent blessing, not on the backs of slaves. He interprets Israelite law and custom in the context of other cultures, even where they differ, but he should look within Israelite culture to see the religious grounding for their Laws and how that makes them, in some ways, different than the surrounding nations.
I am also not convinced about his handling of the issue regarding prohibitions against kidnapping people. He seems to narrow it when I don’t see, and other Biblical scholars don’t see, a reason to narrow it. I will take seriously the provision to treat the foreigner as the native seriously, and not seek exemptions except where explicitly stated.
I do appreciate his goal of not softening the issue of slavery in Israel and the ANE. There may be some of that going on among apologists, but that is a gray area, and one that the OT itself may have aimed at indirectly.
Ludvig is right!! Too bad Whaddo You Mean couldn't go into the future and watch Digital Hammurabi's (Josh Bowen) critique of his videos. Josh Bowen actually speaks and writes Hebrew and is a Ancient Near East Scholar. 2 points, so the virgin girls were allowed to live but the all the young boys were killed BUT it's not about sex. Lol, riiiight. Also, guess where else kidnapping was illegal? The South during the trans-Atlantic slave trade era AND ancient Babylon (from the Hammurabi Code). And they both still had a thriving slave trade.
Exodus 21:7-When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.
As you see it's not about selling oneself, the bible allows men to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
hey, I'm an ex Muslim was wondering if u can help me learn more about Christianity that would be great ... cuz I really like the way u explain stuff :)
check out Inspiring Philosophy channel.. He explains things like the idea of the trinity, hell etc' with clear minded and fun videos.
Note: I am not a chriatian but rather a Jew.
Welcome brother,
Luke 15 verse 4-7 says
3 Then Jesus told them this parable: 4 “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? 5 And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders 6 and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
I tell you we all are rejoicing in you coming into Christ. Let you find peace and happiness in your life. May the lord bless you in Jesus name.
10 minute Bible hour
Mike Winger
ravi zacharias
cold case christianity
frank turek
desiring god
islam critiqued (has also interesting bible stuff)
Often it's also helpful to look at their recommended Channels on their TH-cam Page.
Charles lawson
@@caustixsoda8125
Why so?
The last part almost made me cry, the part where you mentioned no slave, nor free, for we are all one in Christ. And I really loved the series, it has opened my eyes a lot to how God expects His people to treat foreigners. Before I was a Christian I had such strong viewpoints on immigration and refugees and I’m half asian myself, my dad is an immigrant to Australia (where I’m born) but of course, with God’s Grace I can see that all people, bondage, free, women, men, Jew, Greek, black, white, asian, Hispanic need the gospel. Our race and our status won’t get us right with God, only Jesus can ❤️
If you watch the documentary FOOD Inc., they even show that there are food companies who need cheap labor who put ads for jobs down in Mexico, then they even send buses to pick them up. But then at the same time the companies work with the local cops to "tip them off" to a small amount of illegal immigants at a time. I think because they want to get younger labor. But they don't arrest the business men doing all this. Says a lot.
So very well done.
Indeed however you’ll have to provide evidence for your “Claim”
@@justchilling704
Whose claim? Mikes or Johns?
Temi Abiloye I was making a joke to Mike because he presented a large amount of evidence to Matt Dillahunty in their debate just for Matt to pull a retarded move in saying “You’re just making claims” he also pointed out his poor understanding of how History, & historicity work. In short he doesn’t want to accept the truth so to him, the evidence doesn’t matter.
Pedro Junior That’s amazing.
@@justchilling704 my favorite video on Mike winger is the prophecy video
Great job on the whole series, bro!
Indeed
Listen To Reason I don’t get it.
Listen To Reason What are you five years old? Cuz this is how 5 year olds act and ironically it’s 5 years olds who need their hands held....
@Listen To Reason wahahahaa tahts your best argument really? Adhominem at its finest. Lets get to logic. Can you dispute what do you meme claims.
@Listen To Reason ahh ok. Whats your point? Another adhominem attack from you eh. Just insults. Ok. Nice. Yup I bought books regarding history and philosophy. Have you? Hehehehe. You are very funny.
People don’t seem to like historical and literary context. Nor do they like knowing the genres. Atheists or skeptics just pick and choose all the time. Sometimes our fellow Christians will do the same. Great job with this video.
Yup
@@sidepot Have you read the Bible?
Further context: before the mentioned evil behavior of the midianites, Midian enjoyed an ally status because Moses married into the family of a Midian high priest.
Moses own wife was a Midianite.
Moses didn't hate Midianites. The people he loved most in his private life were midianites.
Precisely God nor Moses hates them but, they betrayed both. Funny thing I don’t get why it’s almost as though misery loves company.
So moses’ mother in law and father in law were midianites. This is starting to make sense.
This literally adds zero to any proof. All it shows is that the Moses might have taken a wife from those virgin girls god said NOT to kill.
@James Gray The logic you, and other Christians, presented always baffles me. What a dumbass thing to say.
@Me gusta Jesùs Great! Glad to help.
Obviously my comment is only my opinion and not an actual argument or rebuttal and it wasnt intended to be, but your sarcasm is noted henceforth. (always wanted to use that word)
This should become mandatory viewing for all Christians . Brilliant series 👌👌👌
I second that
It’s really good apologetics
No, it well and truly isn't. Note how he has to resort to round about word play to avoid the simple fact that your god thought it was imperative to craft rules about eating shell fish but not to say that slavery is immoral and should never be done. He then comments that passages like Exodus 21:26-27 magically erase passages like Exodus 21:20-21. So one passage negates the other which is why they put it in the bible in the first place? Such is the intellect of an all knowing law giver? Indeed. Which I'm sure is why the bible tells slaves to submit to your masters both kind and cruel in 1 Peter 2:18-19. And this all depends on a god that no one has demonstrated to exist. What may I ask is "good" about believing in a pro slavery mystical being with no credible evidence?
@@alanbaraka9800 that's just all apologetics. justification for the unjustifiable
@Icy if they wish to try and justify things like slavery, genocide, and bigotry against gays then they have a right to their opinion. Much as I disagree with it. But that opinion is based on the belief that their god exists and this is his will. Thus far no one has demonstrated any god to exist. Yet despite this lack of credible evidence they still claim their god is true even though they haven't demonstrate it to be true. I have a problem with that. Not just the lack of being held to a standard of evidence but also with their horrible views. Hence, why I am compelled to debate such topics.
This is what most non-believers do , they take 1 verse run with it without studying the entire topic. Let's hope he's open minded enough to see where he was wrong
An example to this is making Jonathan and David gay such because of what Jonathan basically said “ i will love you as I love myself”
Just for them to prove that being gay was okay in the bible because Jonathan and David was gay isn’t that crazy
@@Toviyah another I saw was that Jesus and John were in a gay relationship because" John was the disciple that Jesus loved" and " he was reclining on Jesus' bossom".
@@aimeechelangat38 why
But Alex probably studied the bible much more than yourself, he studied theology
Very good job, it is true the Bible is dangerous when used by evil men when misquoted or taking passages out of context to justify injustice.
True but, that goes for any book.
Dickheads Rebuked
Yes but no other book claims to speak for the Creator of all who also claims to be all good and righteous,.
Dickheads Rebuked not for islam not for hinduism and not fir any other relgio
fcastellanos57 Yeah that’s true.
Delani Pillai What do you mean? Because you don’t even have to take the Quran out of context for it to be used for evil? And I’m sure Hinduism is was n similar water.
This was an incredibly edifying video. Well worth the time of viewing ... and even taking notes. I offer my heartfelt thanks for Whaddo You Meme's scholarship and his ability to put his explanations in an easily understood form.
That’s great to hear! I’m glad you found it helpful, friend. Blessings!
You have a unique way of setting forth your work, in an easily understandable fashion. Moreover, your scholarly research is flavored with an incredible insight into the subject. Special thanks for your efforts. May the Lord bless and keep you and yours.
Just signed up on Patreon. Praying that your subscriber base grows by leaps and bounds. You have a strong, clear, knowledgeable, caring voice to reach the Millennials and Gen X. You also remind, encourage and teach me as a Baby Boomer. It is obvious you put a great deal of work into your videos. Thanks!
Thank you, Teri! Great to hear you find the videos helpful as well. Blessings in Christ our Lord, friend.
This is one of the best apologetic channels on TH-cam.
@@zeraphking1407 Apologetics has no hope then
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 You are clearly unable to separate the depth of apologetics from a youtube channel.
@@whaddoyoumemeyour response is Garbage and disingenuous! How the hell did they know they were virgins? You failed yet again!
This is the best response series I've seen addressing slavery in the bible. Thanks Jon, well thought out and researched!
interesting how he never addressed deuteronomy 21:10-14
prandz420 go watch the other parts
AP6 I did watch the other parts he doesn’t address that passage
@J.W. H. no christian ever addresses that passage because there is so little room to twist the literal meaning and weasel out of it.
The passage explicitly condones kidnapping a woman after murdering her family, raping her and making her a sex slave.
@J.W. H. Yes her family was murdered by you and your people during war. You take her captive and if you find her attractive you "make her your wife".
I dont know about you but this does not at all sound like consensual marriage to me. Im sure serial killers and psychopaths who have women locked in their basement consider them their "wives".
How do you think the woman feels. Her friends and family have just been slaughtered and now she is forced to "marry" her captor just so he can have a concubine to fuck. The woman is even dehumanised by forcing her to shave her head and remove the clothes of her culture. This is a textbook definition of a sex slave.
A very well thought out takedown of a sophomoric atheist argument masquerading as 'indefensible". This is very good work bro! I would click the like button multiple times if I could.
except it still is indefensible. Note how whaddo you meme NEVER justified the beating of the slaves. He just focused on cosmic sceptics choice of words, he never refuted that beating slaves was allowed.
He's also on dodgy ground regarding the bible comdemning rape. Rape is seeminlgy an offense when it's done to a woman with a husband (the owner of her) or otherwise her father (also an owner). The offense is thus, not towards the woman but first and foremost towards her male owner. And since you are the male owner of a slave, you can't commit an offense towards yourself, well you do the math.
Please note that a rapist can pay the victims father 50 silver shekels and end up marrying her. The girl is NEVER mentioned to have any choice. This is clearly a "you break it, you buy it" mentality.
Honestly, You have the Best Explaination about the Slavery in The Bible, that I have ever come across so far Personally. Really!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Comment Freely Evolution not only gave rise to violence and hatred but also to love and compassion. You can critique violent behavior even when it's natural. Natural doesn't automatically mean good. Morals don't need God. Morals can be determined by the extent of joy or suffering certain actions bring to the world.
@@sonammeena8674
Why dont you watch the Video above too, instead of just reacting. The video specifically answers the question you have.
APE why would an evolutionist care about morals?
S. M Wow. Did you even watch the video?
@Blaster Masterwell its one thing to say I was taught by these scholars, I have these degrees or I've read these books. Its another thing to come with actual well thought arguments. We're all eyes. We're ready to read such irrefutable arguments. Bring some arguments to refute the arguments like well thought out Christians like this one brings. Otherwise, your claims of knowledge and expertise are just smoke and mirrors. There are scholars, clergy and atheists that come to all kinds of differing conclusions and are just not convincing and yes, lack scholarly rationale even though they are "so called experts"
Your two-year-old video really, really helped me! I have been a Christian since I was 14 years old. And while I have read the Bible more than once, these verses have caused so much trouble for me. I actually spent three years in Bible college, and maybe I just forgot what I learned there about this (I was kinda young and didn't really want to be there so I didn't study as hard as I should have). Your video series on slavery finally helped me to rediscover/find the ]perspective I sorely needed. I'm relatively new to your channel, but I'm so glad I subscribed. Thank you for doing this.
I would think a person with a British accent would know the English language better. The word "kidnapped" didn't exist when the KJV was translated. "Stealeth away" is certainly a correct phrase for "kidnapping". "Kidnapping"'s origin is the late 17th century (the later half of 1600s), is slang, and is not 1611 language.
It wouldn't matter anyway because it's an obvious case of splitting hairs. To steal someone is to kidnap them.
@@Inari1987yeah CS clearly stepped out of his league with that guy
You are a great example of 1 Peter 3:15. Thank you for your work on this! Really helpful!
My exact thoughts.
We NEED MORE knowledgeable Christians like YOU, exposing the MANY HOLES in popular Atheists arguments! In our 'soundbite' culture, the general public is being misled by these popular Atheists.
@Fox Unix gotta love that honesty. God bless
Your comment means a LOT to me. THANKS! If it wasn't for people like Jon McCray putting in the hard time and effort to produce these videos, many of the shallow arguments out there, would keep on gaining momentum... unchecked.
Fox Unix I appreciate your intellectual honesty, cheers mate !
This is what happens when your best knowledge on biblical slavery laws come from a series of selective google searches.
Ultimately though, the bible DOES support slavery no matter how much you want to sugarcoat the terms (and yes, I've watched every response Whaddo you meme did on the subject)
You CAN own humans as property (the definition of slavery)
You CAN beat them with either arbitary limitation, or ovious ways to avoid having to let them go. Either one is disgusting. Whaddo you meme NEVER accounted for this, but rather just focused on the specific phrasing of cosmic sceptic.
You CAN buy a slave from an allready enslaved foreigner, and force upon a child a supposed "ownership of consent" as if any child could conceptualize what it means.
While Whaddo you meme has a done a fantastic job, he has just softened the blow some what.
@@disrupt94 if you look at any time in history where slavery was in place it couldve been vastly improved with the biblical regulations. I honestly couldnt care less about your arbitrary whingeing.
@@danielomitted1867 " f you look at any time in history where slavery was in place it couldve been vastly improved with the biblical regulations"
Even if true, how is that supposed to help?
"our kind of horrible slavery is superior" I mean really?
@@disrupt94 as in the regulations were a good thing. As in the regulations are better than no regulations. But you dont care to have a fair and balanced perspective on this, you just want something to whinge over and I just dont care about your whining.
@@danielomitted1867 " as in the regulations were a good thing. As in the regulations are better than no regulations. "
You know what would have been even better? NOT HAVING SLAVERY AT ALL.
your lack of perspective is astonishing.
" and I just dont care about your whining."
Yes, anybody that has the gall to criticize your position is whinging, there's absolutely no chance that it's YOU who are wrong in your conviction and should be self-critical?
And you do care, that's why you keep replying.
heh
Cosmic Skeptic: "This appears to be a translation issue...he's using the NIV but the KJV says..."
...a little while later...
Cosmic Skeptic: "Well the subheading [not part of the biblical text] in the NIV says..."
KJV-only atheist would have had less dishonesty/cognitive dissonance
'Cos, y'know, Moses spaketh Jacobean English
Forsooth!
Bruh😂😂😂😂
😂 Nice
😂
Julian West 😂😂😂
Now who has blinders on?
Read the Bible for yourself!!!
Excellent apologetics. Thank you.
Also remember that Jesus said some laws of Moses were a concession to people's Hardness of Heart.
Jesus made these laws obsolete and showed the spirit not the letter of the Law.
It's interesting that a perfect God's morality can change like that....
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 It is not like His morality changed is more like He just raised expectations. The same way you expect your kid to peform better at school now he has a provate tutor ( Holy Spirit ).
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 you’re misleading. The phrase “God’s morality” is so vague. Yes, the regulatory practices stemming from God’s moral perspective do change. But the Bible narrative makes clear an ongoing and unchanging effort of order and regulation in society.
@@apartfromtheobvious7783 His moral didn't change, but he couldn't just come to a society built by barbarians and change everything from scrach. Many things were tolerated by God at that specific society and context, while a huge many things were changed drastically. The Law of Moses was NOT the ultimate and perfect law. That is why Jesus said "I didn't come to abolish the law, i came to fullfill It". He came to push further progress to perfect the law, which is the New Testament.
Listening to it again, I'm amazed how people keep missing the part where Israelites are also punished as slaves so many times... Egypt? Babylonia? Persia? and multiple times that God commands that Israelites treat others as their own, since they have been in slavery.
Atheist LOVE to scream "why did God killed egyptian childreeeeen?", while being abortionists... but that aside (actualy - no, not aside, what is wrong with them, how much more inconsistent they are?), they NEVER mention that EGYPTIANS firts were killing jewwish children. Purposely. Children. They think why Moses were send floating in the basket? For fun? Of who?
Even the firstborn is not necessarilly a little child, and when God does, say, flood, His target is not children but EVERYONE, not just purposely killing babies (they love saying that God kills children and giving debilic examples... i wonder how come when God plays God it is evil, but when 90% of abortions are done without reason - it is a moral right? And how can Creator kill when He annihilate His creation? Is this, ugh... killing? How?), but egyptians just went and killed chilren purposely. And NO ONE cares.
Same with "ye are gods" verse. They accept that one as no problem and trying to use it as "there, i don't have to listen to God", lol what? Nt only these gods are only Israel judges, but even if so - then it is for you, for god, your God in the book from wich you wrote that God says that you are gods, told you: YOU god - REPENT; YOU god - obey; and so on, you "god" must do ALL Bible tells you to, lol, including obedience and repenting and stop doing what you do and colliding witht he sinfull world.
This... this is so wrong of any people to act/be like that, this is just exactly what Bible tells us about the world and their rejection of truth because it shows them who they really are, they only suppot and proove Jesus and whole Bible amd it's message to be true. Jesus Christ is God of gods, Lord of lords, amen, amen.
@@sgorgardr227 why should children be punished for the sins of their fathers?
@@theTYTAN3 They actually will not be punished if they won't follow steps of their fathers:
14. Now, lo, *if he beget a son,* that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, *and considereth, and doeth not such like…*
(Ezekiel 18:14)
17. That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; *he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.*
(Ezekiel 18:17)
19. Yet say ye, *Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father?* When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, *he shall surely live.*
(Ezekiel 18:19)
21. *But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed,* and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, *he shall surely live, he shall not die.*
22. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23. *Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?*
(Ezekiel 18:21-23)
Why haven't you listened to advice of this boy in the video? He told you - don''t use futile attacks of they are easilly countered like that with another passage and is undistortable. It is abut to decieve - if you can distort passages, then go, if not, then don't. Why so?
Because if verse is weak and easy to be answered - you will RUIN their reputatuion... and this is MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR THEM, because they are doing PROPAGANDA, and propaganda CANNOT have bad reputation, because it's all propaganda, as decietfull instrument, has.
There is no truth in atheism. Or... whatever actually.
Павел Коровин nothing wrong with abortion the Bible actually supports under certain circumstances
@@sgorgardr227 Really... so God didn't kill innocent Egyptian children for the sins of their parents?
Nice job bro. Skeptic got roasted in that series. You are absolutely correct, he should take his own advice and put those verses in context. 👍👊
This is an AWESOME series! Great job, Jon! :-D
I shared all of the parts to The Cerebral Faith Facebook page.
It was just too hard to watch CosmicSkeptic's video without my mind going "what in the bloody hell are you talking about" every 30 seconds.
😀😀😀😀
Same I kept correcting him to my self.
he's just a little boy, in over his head.
Agree. Both that he's a boy (and being praised for "standing out" at such young age... right, and here is the resault, btw stand out fo what? Poor atheism? oh lol, what is in their heads...), and that he makes things up, and i am sure that it is on purpose. Expecially this... eyebrow play... ahhh, kids... always emotional and easy to influence, with emotions too.
Because you don't understand your own bible that's why you were so confused. You'll turn a blind eye when the cognitive dissonance becomes to hard to bear. Sex slavery was very real. Of course, it was hidden under the guise of sham marriages. Imagine marrying the person who slaughtered your whole family? You think everyone of them was for it? Even if they agreed it was just so they didn't die in the desert. Then they'd have to have sex with these men who killed all their family and friends. Open your eyes. It was sex slavery dressed up as marriage.
I think I'd agree that he's (Cosmic Skeptic) reading INTO the text. In my experience, a lot of atheist and secular humanist ideas and philosophy are logical and make sense, but only with certain presuppositions which may be wrong. This to me is a case of this. If you're of the presumption that the Hebrew slaves are to be treated differently than other slaves, then you might see the other points Cosmic Skeptic brings up.
I'm in some ways amazed at how deep and complex the Bible can be, but even more amazed at how radical the ideas God brought into the world were for that time. When you put into historical context widows, the fatherless, war, slavery, etc. it helps me appreciate both God and His people.
Loved this series. It, like your other videos, has helped to think more deeply and clearly about my faith. Gracias hermano.
CosmicSkeptic is guilty of eisegesis for sure. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisegesis
The person reading into the text is the guy defending slavery.
@@whatwecalllife7034 define slavery?
@@demetriusmiddleton1246 Owning another person as property
@@whatwecalllife7034 define property. What does being property mean, as both the owner and in terms of BEING property? ( he literally explains this in his videos.)
As a former Adult Bible teacher for over 20 years, I really enjoy your teaching and opening up scriptures, keep up the good work my brother.
The boy is not stupid. But when it comes to the Bible, he is extremely ignorant.
I am stunned that he blamed it on translation. It’s almost as if he thinks the words just come from different translations and that the translations themselves don’t have a source. Go to the Hebrew! Wow.
Love that ending 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Alex managed to get seriously out of his depth. He's a really intelligent guy but the complexity of the field (ancient law codes, slavery in modern and ancient history, ethics) combined with the his extremely tendentious approach to reading and arguing through the texts makes him look really foolish the closer you inspect his arguments.
I think you’re giving him to much credit.
He definitely isnt intelligent, hes a rhetorician who makes videos about how morality is subjective, yet the bible is immoral
His arrogance is almost autistic in how much it lacks self reflection
@@life-live- I disagree with virtually all of his conclusions and don't much like the way he goes about arguing (he approaches very very important topics as if nobody has written much on them before) but I'm perfectly willing to give him some credit for being relatively smart. Being simultaneously smart and wrong is a big problem as it allows crackpot rationalisations and rhetorical trickery, but it's fair to say he's intelligent.
@@Mountainmaniavision I agree with what you say,
I also believe a lot of scientist are like him with their confusing rationality coupled with complicated formulas that leave the average citizen ostracized from any discussion of life or Earth
And because of this perceived intellectual gap the average citizen has stopped thinking for themsleves and submitted their learning to those said scientist who feed them false teachings
One could say they are nefariously intelligent
Obviously if you have to defend the Bible with so much extraneous research then it FAILS as the word of God because it can be so easily misunderstood. If it was the perfect word of God then it could NOT be misunderstood. Don’t you see the problem?????
1 Timothy 1:9-10
"We also know that the law is not made for the righteous but the lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and nonreligious, for those who kill their parents, for murderers, for adulterers and the sexually immoral, for *slave traders* and liars and perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"
Sounds like a pretty explicit condemnation of slavery to me
Thanks for this enlightening series. I also had some issues with this topic but now they are answered. Once again, thank you and praise God.
Jon, do yo have a noble lineage? Because you delivered a ROYAL beat down on Cosmic Skeptic!!
You'll make a great dad one day. Lol.
Yeah, he really proved that Midianite women were bad. But failed to mention why all the young boys were killed. And also failed to realise that it is sexual assault to test whether a woman is a virgin or not against their will.
Apart From The Obvious Huh, where are you getting your moral standpoint from if God doesn’t exist. If God doesn’t exist and morality is subjective, then all we have is your opinion, so why should we believe you?
21:07: This is a conquest entirely based on race? Well, um, even Moses' wife was a Midianite.
You say that as if slave masters never fucked or married their slaves.
@@whatwecalllife7034 And Moses didn't rape his wife.
In fact, I don't see any mention of how Zipporah, Moses' wife, was forced to be with Moses.
It was all consensual, so I'm not getting your point.
@@Keesha_Hardy There is no mention of it being consensual either...
His second wife was a cushite.
Not to mention that the Midianites where relatives, they were sons of Abraham just as Ishmael and Isaac where. But through Abraham's second wife (after Sarah died) Keturah. Kind of hard to be racist against your own race. You can try to blame tribalism, but there is no hint of that on the Israelites' part.
Solid video, and that ending was like the nail in the coffin.
This series is very good. You've presented me with the best arguments on this topic. And I've looked at many. Thank you!
Jon I was so confident in your ability to destroy his arguments that I decided to live dangerously and liked the video before I watched it . Wow was not disappointed, wish I could like it again ....wait a minute I can ...👍👍👍👍👍👍
I'm so glad you made this video - I find it really hard to watch people like cosmic skeptic as the effort required to try and correct the myriad misinterpretations is so massive I can't contemplate it, but I can't bear the frustration of seeing so many false claims go unanswered. I still find it curious the nature of the blindness and deafness that is upon those who "seeing do not see, hearing do not hear" - there is something about the smugness that I find difficult to tolerate with grace. I will continue to pray for God's grace in this, as the truth was once veiled to me also, and yet gradually it was made clear. It is better I think for people to be engaging - however erroneously - with the bible than to view it as irrelevant, so I am sure God is at work in this. Thanks for your time making these videos.
Man, this series was entirely awesome. Thank you so much for this
In México the mayan revolts began as a religious rebelion, because the bible says that they can not be slave of the spaniards, a rebelión that lasted centuries
The irony of two black Americans are schooling a white British guy on slavery is no lost on me.
Cosmic skeptic confused the statement "You MAY(conditionaly) buy the slave " with "you shall kidnap the slave" simple English.
Hey my brother in Christ much love sent your way and this series was just awesomely done. You pointing out how ignorant the person is that made the sinful calms against the living Word of God! Thank you for caring about the honor of our God! May God bless you brother! Happy Easter!!!!
Cosmic Skeptic thinks nationality and race mean the same thing? He should come to Africa and see how the majority of people are of the same race despite belonging to different nations.
Super helpful!! Thank you so much for making these videos!!!
I'm so excited about this I'm almost writing in Swahili. Love all the way from Kenya!!
I am rewatching this series now. And oh my, I even took notes because for some reason this conversation seems to be coming up a lot with these tiktok atheists or deconstructionists (as they call themselves). Thank you brother. You most def addressed all the queries they always bring up.
Around 12:30 , 13:30 - prisoners of war
Around 15:50 - is the distinction between Hebrew and foreign slave overblown?
Around 18:18 - debunking the racism claim
Bro, you are awesome and this series was AMAZING!!! Thanks for doing the hard part and giving us information in a quick video!!
Can you imagine if all of the US could read back during slavery, ( literary rate was only 10-15% if this high, depending where you lived), AND they read the Bible. ( 🎙 Mic Drop! )
PS- thank you for backing Alan up. I love both you guys. God bless you!
This was epic. Sending everyone to these videos if they ever come at me with this slavery in the Bible argument. Epic.
A galaxy of thanks for this excellent presentation! I will definitely watch all parts of series (again) with my loved ones who are skeptical regarding this topic. May God continue to bless your ministry and will continue to pray without ceasing for all of God’s children 🙏🏾
I absolutely LOVED this series I literally feel God being exalted!!!! Through this series it is constantly showing God’s Grace, love, protection, and redeeming actions. Glory be to God 🙌🏾 You did great in this video thank you. Not to mention it was hilarious great editing 😅.
This was really good! Thanks for putting this out there! First time at this channel. You've got some great stuff it looks like!
Hi brother 🙂 fancy seeing you here... I often get to know fellow Christians on one channel, only to bump into them on another channel. Hmm... I wonder if that means very few Christians are active commenters. I can't remember exactly, but I must have discovered this channel when David Wood was on. I've only been around here for short while... but I highly recommend it. David on the other hand is an acquired taste... If you know what I mean.
@@evidentone9teen259 hey nice seeing you here! Once in a great while I will bump into somebody else on TH-cam but it's always fun to do so! it's kind of like you're at the store and you bumped into somebody that you know! there is definitely a lot of good content out there that I wish so many more Christians that I know would invest the time into watching or listening to and I wish I would bump into them more online! Well given if they leave a comment anyway!
I found out about this channel by watching I think it was Mike Winger, I watch his videos every now and then and had been from years ago when his channel was a lot smaller
I dont remember the exact passage but at one time the Israelites begged God to save them from invading armies bent on murdering and enslaving them, they promised that if he would help them they would set all their slaves free, after God saved them, they quickly forgot their promises and did not free the slaves, the Bible says that the cries of the slaves reached God and the consequence for breaking their word was that the most of the Israelites were carried away in captivity to Babylon for 70 years , just long enough for those who broke their promise to God to die off.
God isn’t pro slavery after all he tolerated it so long as it wasn’t abusive, and the servant or slave was treated with dignity, humanity, and not as proper.
Flatheads Rebuked Exactly. God wasn’t pro polygamy or divorce either, but since the Israelites we’re so hard hearted he allowed them a way in which to do it while regulating it to allow the women liberties. Jesus reversed both of these and flat out rejected polygamy and allowed one reason for divorce, adultery committed by your spouse, though still preached that you should forgive all sins committed against you so the preference would be you not get divorced. We see this with Jesus a lot. Increasing the expectation God has for us. In the OT God promises the Jews that if they did good, he would bless them. God allowing things he didn’t like was actually showing his grace and in turn allowing them to be blessed more. Of course they still couldn’t do right so que the Son of God, Jesus to do it right for them and us for that matter.
I love the idea that this white guy from Great Britain is trying to school this black man from America on slavery. Oh yeah and he is an atheist critic of the Bible and the black man is a student of the Bible. Guess who is going to get it right? (BTW, I have followed Allen Parr and like his videos) Thanks to Jon McCray for setting the record straight.
Except that What Do You Meme claims that the American slave trade was based on skin color. It wasn't. It was based off the one drop of blood rule. You could be pale as snow, but if your great-grandfather was black, you considered black as well. And if your great-grandfather was a black slave, but every other line of your family is white, you were to be a black slave. As for the rest of the video, Who Do You Meme ignores the regulations put in place for the virgin prisoners of war. Her "husband" was to shave her head, and he could sleep with her after she mourned her parents for a month. There's absolutely nothing in there about what the virgin girl wants. So it makes sense to infer that these girls were, in fact, used as sex slaves. And besides, how could you even tell who the virgins were? Did they just go around in battle and ask a hot girl whether or not she was a virgin after slaughtering her family? Or did they round up all the hot girls and check their hymens? Neither method would have worked.
I watched this series for the first time three years ago. Then I was really starting to question my faith because of the slavery critique and these videos really helped me!! Now I’m watching them again three years later and I’m fascinated by the fact that I have learned so much these past years and that I understand so much more of what Jon McCray is talking about! Thank God!
In the following Biblical passage, which category of slave is Canaan, indentured servant, foreign servants, or the bad guy slave?
18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the whole earth.
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father naked and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father’s naked body. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father naked.
24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said, “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers.”
26 He also said, “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem.
27 May God extend Japheth’s[b] territory; may Japheth live in the tents of Shem, and may Canaan be the slave of Japheth.”
This was simply phenomenal beautifully done....been going back and forth with a friend of mine and now i believe this video series will end the Bible being supporting slavery discussion once and for all
Hey man I love your videos, but a quick critique is that eye contact with the camera is really important it makes the videos more personal. Otherwise this video is dope keep up the great content!
He has very consistent eye contact. All of his videos. Not sure what video you watched.
22:30. "In summary, my video today serves two purposes - 1. That I haven't got a clue what I am talking about, and 2. I am always going to want to remain an atheist, so I will keep listening to lies fed me by Dawkins."
My thoughts exactly👍
You're doing a terrific job with these videos. Keep up the good work and may God bless you!
I saw a Muslim attack the bible by using Numbers 31, and I was initially worried and thought he had a point. But after seeing the Christian defense I have definitely changed my mind. Reading the book in it’s proper context does wonders.
Great video series, you have just earned my subscription.
Amen
When I was very little my sister two years older than me read the Bible to me as a bedtime story. She read that verse “stealeth a man” and I asked what does that mean? She said you can’t steal a man, or basically kidnap a man. I remember that so vividly. She was around 8-9. So I think steal a man is the same as kidnap.
11:14 the definition of kidnap is to take away by force. Kidnap means literally to steal someone.
Not just by force. Police take people away by force but that is not kidnapping.
Kidnapping is the non-consensual and unlawful taking of a person.
Great job on this series! I really enjoyed it and learned a lot more about slavery in the Old Testament
Cosmic Skeptic has to just be parroting other Atheists if he can make claims that Parr is reading things out of context and he's not. There is no other explanation.
This series was incredibly informative and enlightening! Excellent work, sir!
could you do some videos reacting to genetically modified skeptics videos? been watching some of his videos and you can tell hes very smart and knowledgeable but it would be interesting to see what you would say :)
I find that GMS to have the same level of arrogant confidence as Cosmic Skeptic, but with even less understanding of the Christian theology. This is really surprising given the fact that he only recently left Christianity.
Junah Birchwater Yup just goes to show false” conversation. Cosmic Skeptic grew up Catholic so I’m not so surprised he’s lost and is now anti Christian.
I suppose he grew up culturally christian. I mean on the topic of slavery he showed his ignorance regarding the scripture
Jon Son I agree! Funny thing is I meant to say he grew up Catholic I’ll have to edit my original reply. And yeah you have a good point people miss which is that there’s a difference between growing up with Christian parents, or culturally Christian, and actually being a Christian.
Well, WDYM has destroyed GMS on the video about Turek, and he's also starting to go through GMS's Arguments for God tier list
He as a god complex never tries to read it fully
This Cosmic Skeptic dude shows such a lack of historical context. You're right, he is reading into the text what he wants it to say without understanding, or even trying to understand, what the world was like at that time. The end was absolutely ridiculous. He actually had the audacity to tell people to READ THE CONTEXT. LMAO, what a clown 😂
I also noticed at around 11:16 that he mentions this verse is only against stealing a free man or a man who is already a slave, what does this leave?... People who willingly sell themselves into slavery? This also proves that it was volitional because this is the only other way you could get a slave.
But does it matter? Would you buy a slave if they willingly chose to be one?
@@lavontescallion2375 Yes, because they'll be working for them, ethically.
LaVonte' Scallion If I lived back then I’d have no issue buying someone’s services for help around the farm.
Leviticus 25 39-46 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant:
40 But as an hired servant, and as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, and shall serve thee unto the year of jubile.
41 And then shall he depart from thee, both he and his children with him, and shall return unto his own family, and unto the possession of his fathers shall he return.
42 For they are my servants, which I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: they shall not be sold as bondmen.
43 Thou shalt not rule over him with rigour; but shalt fear thy God.
44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.
45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
@@lavontescallion2375 Have you watched either of the last two videos? He addresses this stuff in them.
Jon says, "And we already know from not only Deuteronomy 21, but also the purity laws that were given to the Israel soldiers that r*pe was obviously not an option."
Verse 10-14 talks about making a woman be a wife. Did anyone bother to ask her first if she wanted to marry someone from the same people group who killed here family?
To be fair, it does say not to treat her as a slave (at least if the man was not pleased with her), but it's because he has dishonored her. Why does dishonoring happen at all?
At the very least, this could have said "Do not have take her in unless she is willing. Do not force her to be your wife"... but it didn't.
If this is the best verse we have about this subject, that's not very much. Does anyone have any better verses making it clear to not r*pe?
Does the Bible anywhere specifically say to get consent?
Thank you for breaking this down. Much appreciated brother. Helped me immensely with this misunderstood subject
Thanks for providing context and informing all of us brother👏🏽👍🏽 Edit: 23:34 oh, for real 😳 that’s crazy that they tried to hid the Bible for the slaves..
Scholars such as Josh Bowen describe how Biblical slavery laws were similar to the other ancient near east laws at the time and the antebellum south laws in America before the civil war.
Slavery (indentured servitude and chattel slavery) is immoral by today's standards - most reasonable people accept this as a given.
I'm fine with subjective morality - we don't accept slavery now, but back then it was typical...that doesn't make slavery morally right...but it was accepted back then as normal in their time...
...simply more evidence that the Bible was written by men in their time rather than inspired by God!
God made rules about not mixing crops and fabrics and keeping slaves in the old testament, but didn't rescind any of these in the new testament - Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them".
How do you justify Exodus 21 7-11 "and if a man sells his daughter as a slave she is not to be set free as male slaves are, if she is sold to someone who intends to make her his wife, but he doesn't like her, then she is to be sold back to her father."...do you have daughters? - how would you like them treated as "property", would you sell them?...
Or Leviticus 25:46? "You may leave them (slaves) to your sons after you to inherit as property; you can make them slaves for life. "
For any "plain reading" of the old testament passages regarding slavery - slavery is never condemned.
Apologists like to say the bible placed rules/regulations around slavery, but these rules were based on male Israelite slaves only being set free after 6 years, not the case for female slaves, or chattel slaves "taken from the heathen that surround you" Leviticus 25:44.
Jubilee (every 50 years) set slaves free - it's not clear if that included chattel slaves and female slaves, and tough luck if you were enslaved 1 year after Jubilee :( ...and life expectancy back then was around 50 years :(
The contortions apologists use to to say, "the bible doesn't condone slavery" is staggering.
Any plain reading of the old testament provides rules for owning slaves, including it's OK to beat them as long as they don't die in a couple of days (Exodus 21:20-21), and they are regarded as property to pass onto your sons as inheritance (Leviticus 25:46)...
...nowhere in the New Testament does it say, "slavery is wrong, don't do it"...
...and don't give me Paul's letter to Philemon - that was an individual plea for Onesimus the slave to be forgiven.
Love the series. Hope you pin this: why would God be ok with slavery when He reminded his people multiple times in OT that He has taken them out of slavery from Egypt?
Because it's okay some of the time.
@@Yew2b1 what evidence you have for that assertion?
We need more videos like these defending nonsense atheist claims. Keep up the good work 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
As an agnostic I would love for Christians to prove the historical accuracy of the old testament
@rin rin is that an invitation to Islam?
@rin rin Oo I think I know what you mean like religion?
Defending? Hehe.
You are not very bright.
@@debaterofeverythingpresent2775 how?
This was masterful. Alex O’Connor still maintains arguments to this day and to be honest, did so quite effectively against Ben Shapiro, at least in terms of actual debate performance. I will admit that as a Christian these concepts have been very difficult to wrestle with. Thank you so much for showing how clear this can be.
Such an awesome video, great rebuttal, perfect sir.
Jon, this is amazing.
Skeptics never take Skepticism to its logical conclusion. Why are Skeptics skeptical of everything except for Skepticism? If your gonna adopt Skepticism as a way of life, you should at least follow through by doubting Skepticism itself.
Skepticism is asinine and circular.
There is no way to be skeptical or skepticism. It an attitude not a belief to do so is blind faith
Icy Not at all. No one should have a skeptical attitude, skepticisms isn’t suppose to be active 25/7 but rather when it’s needed, in other skepticism ideally used as a tool rather than the way of viewing everything else, it quickly becomes circular.
Dickheads Rebuked all beliefs a circular no matter how how big it is it’s just about the quality of the circle. I don’t use attitude to me mean something that id on 24/7 I use it in reference to it being applied to specific situations. You can’t be skeptical about everything.
Icy All beliefs are not circular that is simply false. But yes you’re right skepticism should be situational.
You know I just noticed, its a white man talking to a black man about slavery, and then another black man coming along and correcting the white man.
Im just saying if we want to pull a race card, this gets pretty freaking obvious.
lol, so true
Using the race card in this situation would be dishonest.
Finally a breath of fresh air away from the apostasy. I've been wanting some Arabic anr Hebrew terminology and context in my reading. Thanks so much for adding to my understanding of the word. All I gotta say is Amen brother, pray that things pan out and heal right. See you at the gates on up.✌2021 rapture seasons all be here and roaring.
Thank God we have you on our side. God Bless 🙌
Probably the most balanced and complete videos on Biblical "slavery" that i have seen. Great job! I will be referring any Atheist who want to argue the point to your videos!
Exactly my thoughts brother!
Michael Deo: I'm a an atheist who has seen all these videos and all I see is a lot of religious sheeple tap dancing around the bible. Christianity is on a decline in this world.
@@sabin1166
I would say your looking at them through your bias then. The Bible actually predicts that during the end times there will be few in number who actually continue to follow the way of the Messiah. It's interesting that most people think "Christianity" is the representative of the Bible but it is a sect and while it does accept the Messiah it teaches many things against what the Messiah lived and taught. There are people who are coming out of the denominations and strive to live by what the Bible teaches, and follow the Messiah, walking as he walked.
"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of Elohim and the faith of Yahushua." - Revelation 14:12
"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Master Yahushua Messiah and our gathering together to Him,...Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.- 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.- Matthew 7:13-14
So, don't be to encouraged that the majority of people reject the Bible because the Majority have been wrong in the past.
It is the few who have looked for the truth and held on to it and changed the world.
Interestingly, Islam is on the rise. I don't so a secular world being able to stop it as they easily fold and go along to get along.
Shalom/Peace
@@sabin1166
Well...Christians tries to inform Facts about Christianity by explaining it Precisely without missing any Points....Now why this seems to you as Tap Dance, I dont Know..But i think, Maybe its because you are Listening to the Music of Atheism in the background everytime you try to Understand what Christianity is trying to Explain.
Now..Until 2018 the data showed Christianity to be the Largest Religion in the World. So, im not sure how the Word Decline would fit in.
The word of God is the sharpest sword
@@sidepot God bless you
Atheists accuse Christians of nit-picking verses to follow but they nit-pick verses to criticize while ignoring any context whatsoever in the Bible. Great video man, very helpful! Keep it up!
Yeah, I know I am a year late, but just found your channel! BTW you and your wife are awesome!!!
This was probably the most cohesive explanation of biblical historicity when dealing with slavery! Thank you! We are all called to rightly divide the Word of God and sir you've just done that!
I am wondering however why this gentleman even cares being his main belief is morality is relative and there are no absolute truths! This is definitely irony at its finest, and a fine example of intellectual dishonesty!
This is a man that has delved into scholarship. Understands the larger narrative of scripture very well.
I love your stuff, man. This stuff is so important. If we're to build our lives on the Bible, we have to be confident that it is, in fact, from God and is a reliable thing to build on.
Yeah, his "it's literally written in black and white" was really stupid. Assuming that he's not just stupid, one of the only other options is that he is purposefully misleading people. I don't think Socrates is necessarily the best to completely follow, but I think what he said hits the mark, "Meletus," or Cosmic Skeptic, "you don't care about the truth at all."
It’s funny that Cosmic Skeptic says the Bible is a dangerous book. It’s also like he doesn’t want people to know the truth
Uh, yeah that’s the point he’s an Antichrist, and anti-theist there is no such thing as an atheist both Biblically and Scientifically, this is why atheists spend most of there time attacking God and his followers.
No, he actually doesn’t believe in god. Atheists are not convinced that a god exists. It’s not that difficult.
Bryan Vega Mot What the Bible or even Science say in fact atheism is so unnatural that atheist have to force themselves to believe it no joke. You can research the matter yourself and btw CS admitted that he has or had a natural sense of God.
if Cosmic Skeptic was alive in the time of the old testament, he would either die in the wilderness or be killed by the pagan worshippers. He seems to think that ancient people had the same moral standards that we have. and that people were good and kind to one another.
Dickheads Rebuked 1) why should I care what the Bible says 2) what do you mean science says atheism is unnatural? 3) I don’t know what you’re implying when you say atheism is unnatural? Is it bad? Unnatural isn’t inherently bad. 4) atheism is just not being convinced that a god exists, so not believing.......
Well spoken and well done my brother. Keep up the great work. You hit the nails on their proverbial heads. Every time. 👍🏻
Amen brother 🙏, good way to protect God's rules from wicked deceivers and that ending was incredibly funny😂
Lool