Amazing how he can put forth a new perspective that I would never have come to on my own. We take for granted these basic things such as "existence" and "god" and from that so many questions spring forth. If we didn't take these "answers" for granted, we would have no questions. For example if we did not take for granted the idea that "we exist", no one would ever ask the question "how did we get here?" but since we take this answer for granted that "we do exist", so many new questions and problems appear such as "how did we get here" and " who created us". If we simply did not accept that "we exist" as dogma, perhaps none of these questions would ever pose a problem for us.
Yes very good I like how he talks about we're trying to get rid of something that's not there and that's what the problem is the action of trying to rid ourselves when it may not exist in the first place! Cheers
@Abhinav Menon lol you want to live in the period before the written word was invented? No, it won't enlighten you or make you any happier necessarily, but to dismiss technology or knowledge on this basis is stupid.
Common sense is uncommon, People are asking stupid questions to UG, which are of no use the persons asking or to any one else. UG is just being honest, and answering the stupid questions honestly and telling them that they have come to the wrong man. The individuals having common sense will never ask questions. Because UG is the only individual who lived sanely and intelligently with the help of his common sense. He is the most honest individual I have ever come across in my life. Are you Honest
The best statement : "No one has proved anything to me." He does not discard anything directly, which is a good sign. He clearly mentions, "I don't believe in anything," rather than saying, "I don't believe it, so it cannot be true." He is very liberal.
Just responding to you, because I'm bored. Here it goes. Decay is also part of nature. Conflict is part of nature. The body can "heal", but there is no "healing energy." Also, I'm pretty sure this guy never claimed to be a guru. His kick is to expose guru's as frauds, which he has done.
There is no spiritual world. When will you lads get it through that thick skull of yours'. Anything and everything we claim to be spiritual is made up of material thoughts and are absolutely rooted in "material" needs. How is it possible to observe something which is completely outside of the known then claim to have knowledge of that and then use knowledge as the tool for the explanation? It is so ridiculous and absurd, like an imaginary tree trunk people keep pointing to and stepping over. There is nothing there to be stepped over but the concept you hold dear and near For everyone else it just looks like what it is, a common delusion people use to gain something for themselves
"the future is nothing but a modified continuity of the past, this is the present, and what is it that tells you the present is the past" THANK YOU UG I THOUGHT I WAS GOING INSANE I UNDERSTAND 100% WHAT YOU SAY
My crisis started long ago. I also thought I was going completely mad. I'd never heard of UG until recently, and I'm 50 years old. Many of the things UG speaks about, also are my views of life. I actually thought I was the only one. So glad to have a sort of confirmation of my naturalness.
Dogquack it’s like the blind leading the blind, except when the leading blind is a wolf and the rest are sheep. Learn from He who Knows, not he who knows.
I would contend that doing those things and then trying meditation to test ones own experience with it, is the most sensible route if one is seriously curious as to it's benefits. Read studies on both sides sure, and then give honest effort to it (if truly interested) and see what your experience is. That's to me, the best advice. I will watch any video you make on the subject then though because I enjoy information and difference in opinions as avenues for discussion.
Every human being is a trickster. UG was aware of that, that is why he can do such a reading with the deeper understanding of Trickster instead of the serious Magician.
To say that exercise is useful for this is true as well. Along with the physical benefits, light exercise can help people calm themselves as well. I'm all for that..
Being that I can't just hand you an experienced that people have had while meditating, it's hard to "prove" anything, but the reality of the fact that it can create a legitimate altered state of mind that has benefits to oneself, has been tested and shown.
I think telling someone who "doesn't feel benefited by meditation" to focus on those simple suggestions (especially watching what one eats and exercising) is a very sensible way to go. Telling people who have experienced life-changing mood and perspective alterations that while not entirely "recordable" can be represented by detectable changes in brain chemistry, that they are "wasting their time because the effects are minimal" is not plausible or genuine in nature, but judging.
Nothing was predetermined. Everything was based on research, personal trial, interviews, etc. I'll let you know when I finish the video. I'm changing the format to make it more entertaining. The conclusion is that there are relaxation techniques that blow meditation out of the water. They are free, they are better for health of mind/body. As for "life changing" experience due to meditation...that falls flat. Even the most ardent meditators don't expect that.
To assert that it has never helped someone achieve truly profound experiences or solutions to their concerns, emotionally speaking, is unfortunately simply, directly being unaware of other people's experiences. If you're trying to use information that you have to conclude that it is not "the general solution of the populous" then that is a case you can surely try and make. It has truly helped some in a way exercise has not. I've directly seen such changes in people.
@lifeblissbullshit I looked into this Nityananda guy you mentioned. Its unbelievable how many follow that fraud. UG is authentic, even in his senile years.
Future is nothing but a modified continuity of the past! 😂. This phrase...😂😂😂😂😂😂. It sounds meaningful n meaningless at the same time! I love UG. This old man is becoming more n more famous. Must irk him. ❤
can some one tern up the conversation in the background? it is vary interesting and i think it might lead to true enlightenment during this ug filming. astrology is an amazing calender.
Well true, "shows benefits" is a better term. 10-20 papers really isn't that much in the grand scheme of things though. I don't necessarily think that every bit of research done by the Maharishi U is instantly false, in that if correct procedures were followed then it can still be valid, but I agree that the source is too biased to look there for studies on the TM technique so I wouldn't use information from there myself in that subject. Ha, you can prove decreases in stress but "bliss" is hard.
@qigong1001 great point might .......there r corrupt people even in spirituall field ......listening to ug atleast guys like him do not play with people faith..............good to see another kind of indian gem
So again it's a matter of trying to find what is a legitimate, consistent, general solution to people. People I'm talking about are not of a dogmatic or religious variety or people following any specific "teacher" or "guru." Ones who demand devotion may very well have their own egotistic interests at heart, which is entirely against the idea to begin with. Again it's good to be clear and learn about experiences rather than being against something to the point of just dismissing real experiences
@gaiagale I'll check her out. I distinguish between measurable energy (where changes are directly analyzed) and "healing energy" where it is more of a mental effect. The psychological effects can also be measured but only subjectively. Those effects tend to be more limited, ambiguous, placebo like at times. Not that I'm discrediting psychological effects, but those are indirect. Healing energy is an abstraction to me. So, healing energy is an indirect phenomenon. This may be a good video topic.
If we hadn't experienced fear, physical pain, or survival instincts kicking up adrenaline to warn us of either impending or perceived dangers, then actually we wouldn't understand very well. It's because we have experienced things that create similar emotional responses. Many people haven't experienced exactly what meditation feels like, and as such don't understand what people are trying to describe aside from the basic relaxation of it. It depends have far you get into it though.
reality is a state of present moment awareness. just observe, your thoughts, emotions and sense perceptions. the timeless now. that's GOD, pure intelligence. a place beyond thought. Zen monks spend years learning this but it can be KNOWN instantly.
Interesting video and comments created by me Alain Maitre . Worldteacher I am . TH-cam Unity in impartiality . Enjoy calmly . Seize the day in a healthy .
They can do what they want. But "feeling good" is just not a good enough reason. Lots of things "feel good", but may have side effects like a "feel good drug" would. By the way, pharmaceuticals are in the same "feel good" business which I'm against. All meditation or drugs do, is mask the problems we face as humans. Thats the issue.
Well it depends. I think many scientific/medical descriptions have value in terms of the physical reactions that are taking place in the brain. Certain philosophers have described their experience with it in an interesting way. Anecdote doesn't trump test results, but they aren't entirely irrelevant either. One trying it out for themselves is still the best way to go if one is literally just inquiring about it. If someone is looking for "the most effective health promoting agents" generally...
No, its no stretch. I promise I will put all relevant data in the video. The questions are loaded with assumptions, such as "Are you happier after meditating." Scientists have known this leads to biased answers for quite some time now. Madison Avenue has known it for one hundred years in how they advertise. .Pscyhologists for over 70 years. They are directional questions. Its just the way the mind works. The "negative" bias doesn't happen as frequently. Those are just the facts.
Interesting. Still, there are many more than 20 papers on it and I know you can't spend all your life on the subject. For or against, I'm willing to look at any information.
I understand that even if it's a legitimate, honest, profound experience that if it only takes place for a very small, rare group of people trying it, then it is not statistically relevant enough to be a "general practice" for many people. Still, people's experiences cannot be totally dismissed. I think what's better for the body/mind is an individual's choice. I think if people take suggestions such as the ones you have an will provide and then also meditation, that's perfectly reasonable?
@gaiagale I agree that nature is nature. But if "decay" is just a word then "digestion" is just a word. As for conflict and nature... "Conflict" is how one may perceive things. So an "event" may seem like conflict to one and seem like opportunity to another, or a learning experience, or pleasure, etc. Thus, conflict isn't part of a fixed reality. But the "event" that causes the "conflict" does not change. Energy is part of a fixed reality too. Energy is "real"; healing energy is not.
exercise. Meditation isn't simply sitting and relaxing. There are various specific practices than promote feelings that exercise does not necessarily and those brain signals have been demonstrated. Essentially, it is a "mental exercise" and I tend to think the phrase "dont waste your time" with it while identifying it as not a mental exercise, comes with specific, noticeable bias towards it's status as a "spiritual practice. Being involved in ones community is different entirely.
"they take what works, repackage it, and call it meditation" Seriously though people have been gaining emotional benefits from various forms of meditation for thousands of years, so it's not a matter of who invented it. It's been around. Some new-age business people do what you're saying, but it's FAR from all people just trying to make money. Many people are just passing on techniques that do help people, for free. They don't necessarily have to be about "devotion" to anything, seriously.
However it's pretty clear that the bliss certain people do experience in relation to a supposed state of enlightenment, is beyond our current psychological explanations. Anything that "can't be explained" right now may be able to be explained more thoroughly in the future. Who's to say it simply "can't be?" However, right now the experience of either, are not fully understood, though they understand meditative states better than they used to, scientifically speaking,.
I have heard some good things about "MUM" stating that in general it is a good environment and that the food there is freshly grown. Supposedly they do have some fairly legitimate programs and graduates have had success finding jobs in various media, arts, and communication related fields of occupation. However, I've heard in terms of physics and science they let dogma room freely and taint both their studies and their teachings, and then it just gets worse from there.
It's not about ghosts or anything that can't be studied aside from the experience itself. Many people through meditation have had very profound experiences that are detectable in the way they affect the brain. This doesn't prove the existence of any outside deity or anything, but merely that not everyone's enlightening experiences are merely fraudulent. People do have those experiences and find a level of happiness beyond that of just "finding a partner" or "getting a raise." There's more to it.
People have that experience and it is as real to them if not more real to them than anything in day to day life. Meditation does create changes in brain chemistry, the limit to which is not yet known. I'm not saying what that specifically proves or does not prove, other than that the practice is not "bullshit" even if many religious sects use the idea of people achieving that peaceful and accepting mindset to feed them dogma. So again, some spiritual practices have value regardless of origin
So 'reality' is when we aren't worry and thinking about ideas and concepts but just basic human functioning like breathing etc is taking place with no interpretation? (obviously without thinking that human functioning is taking place lol)
Your right about the different forms. I'm mainly focusing on TM, because their claims don't match realtiy. They have the most research, but its done by themselves. People don't seem to understand that is not true research. I'll probably have to break up the videos since there is so much to cover. The current Western forms advocated by Jon Kabat Zinn and the like is what I intend to cover separately. Thats not as bad, but also the claims are exaggerated as the research will show.
people are lost in their experience of life. it is not a true picture they are seeing because of their avoidance of reality. This is what causes all their problems. Then they ask why? He is saying the answers were there all along in front of them. They are just missing the point of it all by being asleep...
Only for entertainment ... astrology ..grand daughter is palmist and she is fantastic ..all such people need is fellows to surround and give attention. Word magician
If it weren't for the brainwashing and life-controlling dogma, the wars over senseless disagreement over unfalsifiable ideas, we could legitimately study spirituality further and it's valuable practices could be in a way, integrated as part of psychology as therapy related to it is basically "helping oneself cope." Certain practices do help with this without necessarily lying or feeding dogma. Some lessons are to be had and some experiences are valuable. Fighting creates artificial divides.
Technique's vary as experiences do, and I do believe that if someone is truly curious about something that they should experience it themselves, but I'm not saying that no descriptions have any value. Again, they're just not all-encompassing.
There are ways to explain them but, not necessarily convey them. It's the same with any emotion. If we were discussing happiness with people who had never experienced it, we couldn't explain it in a way that proved it existed. It takes experience to understand descriptions of experiences in a way that can be deemed proof worthy. You're making a video to explain it but, do you know anything about it and/or have you tried it? Studies did find very significant benefits and not simply the same as
However, many ancient tribes and sects of certain spiritual groups perceived being "meditative" in ones actions as their goal, and meditation itself as a means of calming the mind so that they can do so. That mentality was taken. It's your opinion whether it's valid or not. I get your position. I've heard it before and I've heard others from people with different experiences than yours. That's just the diversity of the world's people for you... It's helped others solve their issues..
@gaiagale Thats interesting. I looked up 'individuation' and I would have to read up on that., soI don't really know. By 'event' I mean anything that is happening in a area which we observe/make measurements. Conflict is just an abstraction of what is happening. Thats linked to how we feel which INDIRECTLY has physical effects (blood pressure goes up, sweating). I don't agree with the assertion that a "healing energy" exists that DIRECTLY affects the physical.
There are definitely visualization techniques which help people, for example, cancer patients which tend to suffer cognitive deficiency. But there are many meditation promoters who deceitfully co-opt these techniques, as if they came up with it. You see, they take what works, repackage it, and call it meditation. I don't accept any sort of "devotional exercise" which is what 'meditation' is by definition. Nor should anyone else be tricked to believe in that myth.
Lets sum up your views before we continue to see if I have this correct. You feel it is not possible to describe, draw out, or convey any way of explaining meditative states or enlightenment; other than getting people to practice it for a while based on some technique. The technique may vary according to the persons situation. And I'm assuming you would say the actual "enlightenment" would probably vary from person to person as well depending on their circumstances...correct?
Words and concepts create contradictions by nature, actually. Meditation does not create any. Again, forming assumptions because words are inadequate to directly convey certain experiences, is illogical. Many people experience enlightenment as realizing their true nature (what they really are) and therefore being totally content. They aren't referring to the joy of buying a house or anything so fleeting. People do experience this feeling, but for some to call it "supernatural" is presumptuous.
No see not everyone that can't convey it, can't "identify it." some know exactly what it felt like a changed their living experience, but have trouble conveying an experience to others that they have not experienced anything to compare to. That's life. Also, it's not really truthful to say it "stagnates the brain." Maybe people doing it incorrectly or without purpose that could but, it doesn't have any negative physical impact generally. Some things are legitimately hard to define and convey.
@gaiagale Its always difficult to measure subjective changes. But perhaps I'm not being clear. If someone has cancer, we can objectively measure their blood cell count, among other things in response to medicine. We cannot measure accurately anything like the effects of "healing energy." Its too subjective because it is a mental phenomenon. Its like asking "how are you doing". There is no ruler to really measure that. So, I'm not sure your position on that. We agreeing? I'll check mindwalk.
I know that they were a means of attaining enlightenment and the original "forms" are not truly lost as it's often more about the intention within the individual than a "lost technique" itself. There's nothing wrong with the word enlightenment. Some people experience such a profound change in the way they think and feel after an "enlightening experience" that it may be warranted, but anyone trying to sell "enlightenment" to people is one to be wary of as yes that is generally fraudulent.
I wonder when it was that J Krishnamurti thought he had healing powers. I don't think he was claiming that in the 70s and 80s. A somewhat softer version of the fierce barking dog in his extreme old age. The end scene where he admits to enjoying palmistry etc., but didn't want people to know because they might think he believes in it, and then reads the guy's palm was sweet.
In one of his talks, J. Krishnamurti talks about doing that as a younger man, but that he didn’t do it anymore. For this to work, he claims the healer should not have a quiver of selfishness. Not give me your money, and I will give you health.
but, to make assumptions about it as illegitimate is like to say that if someone had an allergic reaction to a drug not known to cause them, to just say "nope, no you didn't have that allergic reaction..." It becomes a "because I say it cannot be, it cannot" sort of logical fallacy. The reality is, if it's not in your experience why believe it, but why hold beliefs against it either? That's all belief based honestly and not taking all explanations/perspectives into account.
Haha, I've considered it but, I haven't wanted to fully yet. Oh I don't disagree with the fact that studies need to be improved and that more need to be done to form any kind of conclusion for those looking to make a decision on it's effectiveness based on evidence. However, those studies do not then become negative. Positive changes were still detected. Maybe that can be attributed to other factors, but still. I think the conclusion for now should be: "To be continued" haha.
I'm not just critiquing "gurus." Meditating only stagnates the brain. It creates contradictions where there shouldn't be any. For example, (as you put it) "consistent" way of looking for solutions, yet saying you're against "dogma". I hope you see the error. Or looking for 'enlightened' states without defining that. One just chases their own tail. And the ones that claim to have found it can't explain it because they can't identify it. Its self deception.
If "concepts create contradictions", then 'meditation' by necessity falls under that category. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm sure you see the problem. These aren't assumptions. As for "not being able to explain unless they experience it", lets take being attacked by a lion. I'm fairly sure you can understand that its dangerous, painful, scary, bloody, and so on. You don't have to experience it to understand it.
then they should probably look at the evidence and make a decision based on that...in other words, follow things with proven effectiveness.. Meditation has proven benefits..but, as you said so do many, many things.. However, if someone is literally wondering specifically about how far meditation can take someone in terms of what they experience, the best idea is always trying it, even while taking accounts and data into account..
There is a research technique we use called meta-analysis. So each paper can consider the results of multiple papers. There are many of these. I'll post the results in the video. I have the script just about finished. Just figuring a way to present it. The TM video will be totally separate. They are an absolute joke and will be treated as such. The other techniques will be dealt with an a more serious fashion.
Its a massive stretch to say "the research proves benefits." Even the poorest research doesntt use the word "prove." But before I get the video done, Ill be open to anything you can find. I've analyzed about 10- 20 papers so far. I've stopped looking at the TM studies since they are predominantly done by the Maharishi U. I've looked at Mathieu Ricard, Kabat Zinn, Alan Wallace (Shamatha project) to name a few. Many papers for cancer (some good stuff there). But all the bliss studies are shams.
I'm just saying, fully dismissing people's profound experiences because they can not completely explain or convey them directly is to pretend that our current explanations are all encompassing and complete when they are simply not. Some experiences it's hard to convey. Then why accept them at face value? You're right, you can't (unless you have the experience yourself).. but, dismissing it because people can't explain...just wouldn't seem to be genuinely looking into what's actually happening
For the love of god, can someone just tell me what he means when he says our answers are born out of the questions or something or might be the other way round? cheers.
Sxnz it has much deeper significance than he’s given credit. You can test it for yourself. When you ask a question (even on topics which is allegedly new for you), and receive an answer, it’s you who decide if that answer makes sense or not. If you probe further, an understanding will arise that the very purpose of asking a question is to hear the answer you want through someone else. Hence a question ( any question ) is just a modified version of an answer that you already know.
You didn't even get this simple thing right. He says the questions are born out of the answers you already have. What that means? Probably that you have been led to believe there is some thing or some state that will lead to happiness or enlightenment or transformation (the answer) and you bought into it and are on an infinite treadmill chasing after and searching for that thing that you can not even describe (the questions). That's why he also says that there is no problem...the question is the problem, and the question derives from the answers you were given
I hate to repeat myself. But if a person can not simply and adequately explain their experience, then its just a nebulous feeling. Which is not good enough. Using "subjectivity" as an excuse is also not good enough. Art, which is subjective can be described in ways understandable to others although they may have a different feel for it. Even consciousness, also subjective, has ways of being tested. No such luck with enlightenment, meditative states, etc. Thats because its an enticing fantasy.
That's exciting sounding! I'll definitely watch it. In terms of clinically proven effectiveness, I'll see what evidence you put forth then! Meditation is free as well (if you're not following some specific plan). Also, do you cover every form of meditation or just focus on TM (which not everyone who meditates, supports) or just go on any study on any type? Oh I'm not saying that's to be expected, I'm saying it's happened to some people and that those people, were not simply lying.
Thats a funny thing. I only a bit about LSD and it medical usage in the 50's for treating psychotic issues. There have always been claims that it "expands the mind." And they always use Steve Jobs or other creative people as an example. The problem is there are way too few people to show a causal effect. If you look at the population that does not use psychotropics there are many more successful happy and creative people. People equate fame with success and thats what confuses some.
Some are frauds, others have legitimate things to teach people about how their beliefs end up shaping their experience. The body does heal itself and the process in which it does has been explained physically speaking, but we also know that mental stress lowers the immune response and inhibits the healing process. If people's experiences are beyond your explanations, do you simply deny them? Your opinion of meditation is not a proven or verified one, but your opinion based on limited data.
Maybe all of the dogma or information accompanying the origins of profound self-realization is unprovable and unnecessary. I'm not even claiming that the experience existing proves anything. Simply that the experience of realizing yourself to not simply be your idea and/or concept of yourself (you identity) is real and has helped many people truly alleviate their own suffering. Whether it's nothing beyond the right chemicals being released in the brain is irrelevant and/or fine either way!
"People equate fame with success and thats what confuses some." Fame gets people to give you their attention, and attention from others is the most powerful drug we know. It's the ultimate 'high' to have all eyes and ears on you, which is the real reason you're posting so many comments, right? Because it feels good to have people putting their attention on you, listening to you. Yes, TH-cam allows everyone to get some of that fame.
I am not stating that you are necessarily doing anything other than giving your take on the matter, but I would recognize if I were you (if you haven't already, I can't determine if you have or haven't) that your statements are not factual (or nonfactual) but, your personal experience and/or your own interpretations and opinion, not any form of absolute "truth" and something that isn't the case in the experience of many scientifically literate, sensible people.
@qigong1001 -- well there r siddhis and powers ,, but krishnamurti disagrees to that ,, i think not because he thinks it is fraud ,, it is just that he does not want people to get into such things
I'm just saying you know, I don't think it's just some outdated practice or cult-style dogmatic lie, I know that people have had very strong experiences meditating and some fairly profound health benefits. It would be an error in reasoning for me to conclude that it would be such a reality for most just because extreme-positive examples exist. I understand that. I'm simply not dismissing those experiences as irrelevant, even if statistically they aren't prevailing. Is that fair?
never believed in culture always wanting clarifications and now got it all, no more questions. the burden is reduced. Thanks U G
U.G. What a rare expression of cosmic potentiality !!
ST DOMESTIHUS That's it
Amazing how he can put forth a new perspective that I would never have come to on my own. We take for granted these basic things such as "existence" and "god" and from that so many questions spring forth. If we didn't take these "answers" for granted, we would have no questions. For example if we did not take for granted the idea that "we exist", no one would ever ask the question "how did we get here?" but since we take this answer for granted that "we do exist", so many new questions and problems appear such as "how did we get here" and " who created us". If we simply did not accept that "we exist" as dogma, perhaps none of these questions would ever pose a problem for us.
Yes very good I like how he talks about we're trying to get rid of something that's not there and that's what the problem is the action of trying to rid ourselves when it may not exist in the first place! Cheers
He is an innocent and a good person.
When you are absolutely honest with yourself evil is ok
It's so funny the way he rejects the question even before the interviewer starts asking,lol
This is so your attention is completely held and the nonsense that repeats itself has no way through.
@Abhinav Menon thanks , but I've got a small collection of them in my library, entertaining books.
@Abhinav Menon lol you want to live in the period before the written word was invented?
No, it won't enlighten you or make you any happier necessarily, but to dismiss technology or knowledge on this basis is stupid.
Everyone seems to be a scamster including him.
because all the questions are the same:ug
Common sense is uncommon, People are asking stupid questions to UG, which are of no use the persons asking or to any one else. UG is just being honest, and answering the stupid questions honestly and telling them that they have come to the wrong man.
The individuals having common sense will never ask questions. Because UG is the only individual who lived sanely and intelligently with the help of his common sense. He is the most honest individual I have ever come across in my life. Are you Honest
The best statement : "No one has proved anything to me."
He does not discard anything directly, which is a good sign. He clearly mentions, "I don't believe in anything," rather than saying, "I don't believe it, so it cannot be true." He is very liberal.
Just responding to you, because I'm bored. Here it goes. Decay is also part of nature. Conflict is part of nature. The body can "heal", but there is no "healing energy." Also, I'm pretty sure this guy never claimed to be a guru. His kick is to expose guru's as frauds, which he has done.
Future is nothing but modified continuity of past...WOW! UG...simply great!
I can imagine that palm reading moment must have been one of the most beautiful moments of that mans life
Think, society losing gem. Instead cheaters. First time I'm seeing his video. What a knowledge. Really awsome .
What about islam
@@stefano1405 Isn't it a question arise out of an answer you already have but want to reconfirm because his name sounds like a Muslim ?
Either he crossed the spiritual world, the final truth or he reached just on edge.
He is Buddha afaik.
There is no spiritual world. When will you lads get it through that thick skull of yours'. Anything and everything we claim to be spiritual is made up of material thoughts and are absolutely rooted in "material" needs.
How is it possible to observe something which is completely outside of the known then claim to have knowledge of that and then use knowledge as the tool for the explanation?
It is so ridiculous and absurd, like an imaginary tree trunk people keep pointing to and stepping over. There is nothing there to be stepped over but the concept you hold dear and near
For everyone else it just looks like what it is, a common delusion people use to gain something for themselves
"the future is nothing but a modified continuity of the past, this is the present, and what is it that tells you the present is the past"
THANK YOU UG I THOUGHT I WAS GOING INSANE I UNDERSTAND 100% WHAT YOU SAY
What chain ? What is that word
Can you continue these lines
My crisis started long ago. I also thought I was going completely mad. I'd never heard of UG until recently, and I'm 50 years old.
Many of the things UG speaks about, also are my views of life. I actually thought I was the only one. So glad to have a sort of confirmation of my naturalness.
Dogquack it’s like the blind leading the blind, except when the leading blind is a wolf and the rest are sheep. Learn from He who Knows, not he who knows.
I would contend that doing those things and then trying meditation to test ones own experience with it, is the most sensible route if one is seriously curious as to it's benefits. Read studies on both sides sure, and then give honest effort to it (if truly interested) and see what your experience is. That's to me, the best advice.
I will watch any video you make on the subject then though because I enjoy information and difference in opinions as avenues for discussion.
You have no questions 👍🎩💐💐💐
Dude was chilling until the very fucking end
Every human being is a trickster.
UG was aware of that, that is why he can do such a reading with the deeper understanding of Trickster instead of the serious Magician.
This dude might have gotten something but eventually lost his mind😂😂😂. Anyways he must be godly coz he sounds marvellous ❤
such a wonderful being
There is one lady and gent constantly talking in the background. Why don't they get out.
To say that exercise is useful for this is true as well. Along with the physical benefits, light exercise can help people calm themselves as well. I'm all for that..
Being that I can't just hand you an experienced that people have had while meditating, it's hard to "prove" anything, but the reality of the fact that it can create a legitimate altered state of mind that has benefits to oneself, has been tested and shown.
Human mind can do anything. This guy was a student of J krishnamurti.
I think telling someone who "doesn't feel benefited by meditation" to focus on those simple suggestions (especially watching what one eats and exercising) is a very sensible way to go. Telling people who have experienced life-changing mood and perspective alterations that while not entirely "recordable" can be represented by detectable changes in brain chemistry, that they are "wasting their time because the effects are minimal" is not plausible or genuine in nature, but judging.
Nothing was predetermined. Everything was based on research, personal trial, interviews, etc. I'll let you know when I finish the video. I'm changing the format to make it more entertaining. The conclusion is that there are relaxation techniques that blow meditation out of the water. They are free, they are better for health of mind/body. As for "life changing" experience due to meditation...that falls flat. Even the most ardent meditators don't expect that.
To assert that it has never helped someone achieve truly profound experiences or solutions to their concerns, emotionally speaking, is unfortunately simply, directly being unaware of other people's experiences. If you're trying to use information that you have to conclude that it is not "the general solution of the populous" then that is a case you can surely try and make. It has truly helped some in a way exercise has not. I've directly seen such changes in people.
When ug asked about which one the older one or younger one saibaba.. i wanted to know what were his thoughts on older saibaba
He called the older Baba also a fraud
@@reddyda oh I was searching for this for a long time sir. Can you please tell what he said exactly?
In one interview he said that there was only one honest man in the history of mankind and he is Socrates. Period
@lifeblissbullshit I looked into this Nityananda guy you mentioned. Its unbelievable how many follow that fraud. UG is authentic, even in his senile years.
Interesting conversation we had. I'll let you know when my vids are done. Maybe two weeks.
Future is nothing but a modified continuity of the past! 😂. This phrase...😂😂😂😂😂😂. It sounds meaningful n meaningless at the same time! I love UG. This old man is becoming more n more famous. Must irk him. ❤
can some one tern up the conversation in the background? it is vary interesting and i think it might lead to true enlightenment during this ug filming. astrology is an amazing calender.
Well true, "shows benefits" is a better term. 10-20 papers really isn't that much in the grand scheme of things though. I don't necessarily think that every bit of research done by the Maharishi U is instantly false, in that if correct procedures were followed then it can still be valid, but I agree that the source is too biased to look there for studies on the TM technique so I wouldn't use information from there myself in that subject. Ha, you can prove decreases in stress but "bliss" is hard.
@qigong1001 great point might .......there r corrupt people even in spirituall field ......listening to ug atleast guys like him do not play with people faith..............good to see another kind of indian gem
So again it's a matter of trying to find what is a legitimate, consistent, general solution to people. People I'm talking about are not of a dogmatic or religious variety or people following any specific "teacher" or "guru." Ones who demand devotion may very well have their own egotistic interests at heart, which is entirely against the idea to begin with. Again it's good to be clear and learn about experiences rather than being against something to the point of just dismissing real experiences
@gaiagale I'll check her out. I distinguish between measurable energy (where changes are directly analyzed) and "healing energy" where it is more of a mental effect. The psychological effects can also be measured but only subjectively. Those effects tend to be more limited, ambiguous, placebo like at times. Not that I'm discrediting psychological effects, but those are indirect. Healing energy is an abstraction to me. So, healing energy is an indirect phenomenon. This may be a good video topic.
If we hadn't experienced fear, physical pain, or survival instincts kicking up adrenaline to warn us of either impending or perceived dangers, then actually we wouldn't understand very well. It's because we have experienced things that create similar emotional responses. Many people haven't experienced exactly what meditation feels like, and as such don't understand what people are trying to describe aside from the basic relaxation of it. It depends have far you get into it though.
Fair enough. Good response.
reality is a state of present moment awareness. just observe, your thoughts, emotions and sense perceptions. the timeless now. that's GOD, pure intelligence. a place beyond thought. Zen monks spend years learning this but it can be KNOWN instantly.
Interesting video and comments created by me Alain Maitre . Worldteacher I am . TH-cam Unity in impartiality . Enjoy calmly . Seize the day in a healthy .
Just an arogant man nothing else.
That's because you have a fixed idea of how things are.You have a believesystem that's being confronted.
They can do what they want. But "feeling good" is just not a good enough reason. Lots of things "feel good", but may have side effects like a "feel good drug" would. By the way, pharmaceuticals are in the same "feel good" business which I'm against. All meditation or drugs do, is mask the problems we face as humans. Thats the issue.
Well it depends. I think many scientific/medical descriptions have value in terms of the physical reactions that are taking place in the brain. Certain philosophers have described their experience with it in an interesting way. Anecdote doesn't trump test results, but they aren't entirely irrelevant either. One trying it out for themselves is still the best way to go if one is literally just inquiring about it. If someone is looking for "the most effective health promoting agents" generally...
No, its no stretch. I promise I will put all relevant data in the video. The questions are loaded with assumptions, such as "Are you happier after meditating." Scientists have known this leads to biased answers for quite some time now. Madison Avenue has known it for one hundred years in how they advertise. .Pscyhologists for over 70 years. They are directional questions. Its just the way the mind works. The "negative" bias doesn't happen as frequently. Those are just the facts.
Interesting. Still, there are many more than 20 papers on it and I know you can't spend all your life on the subject. For or against, I'm willing to look at any information.
UGK. The only no nonsense Un-Guru ever lived.
I understand that even if it's a legitimate, honest, profound experience that if it only takes place for a very small, rare group of people trying it, then it is not statistically relevant enough to be a "general practice" for many people. Still, people's experiences cannot be totally dismissed. I think what's better for the body/mind is an individual's choice. I think if people take suggestions such as the ones you have an will provide and then also meditation, that's perfectly reasonable?
@gaiagale I agree that nature is nature. But if "decay" is just a word then "digestion" is just a word. As for conflict and nature... "Conflict" is how one may perceive things. So an "event" may seem like conflict to one and seem like opportunity to another, or a learning experience, or pleasure, etc. Thus, conflict isn't part of a fixed reality. But the "event" that causes the "conflict" does not change. Energy is part of a fixed reality too. Energy is "real"; healing energy is not.
exercise. Meditation isn't simply sitting and relaxing. There are various specific practices than promote feelings that exercise does not necessarily and those brain signals have been demonstrated. Essentially, it is a "mental exercise" and I tend to think the phrase "dont waste your time" with it while identifying it as not a mental exercise, comes with specific, noticeable bias towards it's status as a "spiritual practice. Being involved in ones community is different entirely.
"they take what works, repackage it, and call it meditation"
Seriously though people have been gaining emotional benefits from various forms of meditation for thousands of years, so it's not a matter of who invented it. It's been around. Some new-age business people do what you're saying, but it's FAR from all people just trying to make money. Many people are just passing on techniques that do help people, for free.
They don't necessarily have to be about "devotion" to anything, seriously.
I think you are right. But UG still has so much of value too say.
@@daithiocinnsealach1982 I agree with that, even 7 years later.
Interesting!
However it's pretty clear that the bliss certain people do experience in relation to a supposed state of enlightenment, is beyond our current psychological explanations. Anything that "can't be explained" right now may be able to be explained more thoroughly in the future. Who's to say it simply "can't be?" However, right now the experience of either, are not fully understood, though they understand meditative states better than they used to, scientifically speaking,.
I have heard some good things about "MUM" stating that in general it is a good environment and that the food there is freshly grown. Supposedly they do have some fairly legitimate programs and graduates have had success finding jobs in various media, arts, and communication related fields of occupation. However, I've heard in terms of physics and science they let dogma room freely and taint both their studies and their teachings, and then it just gets worse from there.
It's not about ghosts or anything that can't be studied aside from the experience itself. Many people through meditation have had very profound experiences that are detectable in the way they affect the brain. This doesn't prove the existence of any outside deity or anything, but merely that not everyone's enlightening experiences are merely fraudulent. People do have those experiences and find a level of happiness beyond that of just "finding a partner" or "getting a raise." There's more to it.
People have that experience and it is as real to them if not more real to them than anything in day to day life. Meditation does create changes in brain chemistry, the limit to which is not yet known. I'm not saying what that specifically proves or does not prove, other than that the practice is not "bullshit" even if many religious sects use the idea of people achieving that peaceful and accepting mindset to feed them dogma. So again, some spiritual practices have value regardless of origin
We live in misery and we will die in misery . UG
So 'reality' is when we aren't worry and thinking about ideas and concepts but just basic human functioning like breathing etc is taking place with no interpretation? (obviously without thinking that human functioning is taking place lol)
Your right about the different forms. I'm mainly focusing on TM, because their claims don't match realtiy. They have the most research, but its done by themselves. People don't seem to understand that is not true research. I'll probably have to break up the videos since there is so much to cover. The current Western forms advocated by Jon Kabat Zinn and the like is what I intend to cover separately. Thats not as bad, but also the claims are exaggerated as the research will show.
people are lost in their experience of life. it is not a true picture they are seeing because of their avoidance of reality. This is what causes all their problems. Then they ask why? He is saying the answers were there all along in front of them. They are just missing the point of it all by being asleep...
Only for entertainment ... astrology ..grand daughter is palmist and she is fantastic ..all such people need is fellows to surround and give attention. Word magician
If it weren't for the brainwashing and life-controlling dogma, the wars over senseless disagreement over unfalsifiable ideas, we could legitimately study spirituality further and it's valuable practices could be in a way, integrated as part of psychology as therapy related to it is basically "helping oneself cope." Certain practices do help with this without necessarily lying or feeding dogma. Some lessons are to be had and some experiences are valuable. Fighting creates artificial divides.
This guy has been wid yogis nd spiritual teachers for many years if he is saying this u shld listen nd listen carefully.
Technique's vary as experiences do, and I do believe that if someone is truly curious about something that they should experience it themselves, but I'm not saying that no descriptions have any value. Again, they're just not all-encompassing.
Brilliant human
There are ways to explain them but, not necessarily convey them. It's the same with any emotion. If we were discussing happiness with people who had never experienced it, we couldn't explain it in a way that proved it existed. It takes experience to understand descriptions of experiences in a way that can be deemed proof worthy. You're making a video to explain it but, do you know anything about it and/or have you tried it? Studies did find very significant benefits and not simply the same as
However, many ancient tribes and sects of certain spiritual groups perceived being "meditative" in ones actions as their goal, and meditation itself as a means of calming the mind so that they can do so. That mentality was taken. It's your opinion whether it's valid or not. I get your position. I've heard it before and I've heard others from people with different experiences than yours. That's just the diversity of the world's people for you...
It's helped others solve their issues..
@gaiagale Thats interesting. I looked up 'individuation' and I would have to read up on that., soI don't really know. By 'event' I mean anything that is happening in a area which we observe/make measurements. Conflict is just an abstraction of what is happening. Thats linked to how we feel which INDIRECTLY has physical effects (blood pressure goes up, sweating). I don't agree with the assertion that a "healing energy" exists that DIRECTLY affects the physical.
They call it flying, because hopping is the preliminary stages to lift off. Thats what they say.
There are definitely visualization techniques which help people, for example, cancer patients which tend to suffer cognitive deficiency. But there are many meditation promoters who deceitfully co-opt these techniques, as if they came up with it. You see, they take what works, repackage it, and call it meditation. I don't accept any sort of "devotional exercise" which is what 'meditation' is by definition. Nor should anyone else be tricked to believe in that myth.
Lets sum up your views before we continue to see if I have this correct. You feel it is not possible to describe, draw out, or convey any way of explaining meditative states or enlightenment; other than getting people to practice it for a while based on some technique. The technique may vary according to the persons situation. And I'm assuming you would say the actual "enlightenment" would probably vary from person to person as well depending on their circumstances...correct?
Words and concepts create contradictions by nature, actually. Meditation does not create any. Again, forming assumptions because words are inadequate to directly convey certain experiences, is illogical. Many people experience enlightenment as realizing their true nature (what they really are) and therefore being totally content. They aren't referring to the joy of buying a house or anything so fleeting. People do experience this feeling, but for some to call it "supernatural" is presumptuous.
@1Earth0Karma8 good comment...................but we dnt want that, we want comforter.
No see not everyone that can't convey it, can't "identify it." some know exactly what it felt like a changed their living experience, but have trouble conveying an experience to others that they have not experienced anything to compare to. That's life. Also, it's not really truthful to say it "stagnates the brain." Maybe people doing it incorrectly or without purpose that could but, it doesn't have any negative physical impact generally. Some things are legitimately hard to define and convey.
@gaiagale Its always difficult to measure subjective changes. But perhaps I'm not being clear. If someone has cancer, we can objectively measure their blood cell count, among other things in response to medicine. We cannot measure accurately anything like the effects of "healing energy." Its too subjective because it is a mental phenomenon. Its like asking "how are you doing". There is no ruler to really measure that. So, I'm not sure your position on that. We agreeing? I'll check mindwalk.
I know that they were a means of attaining enlightenment and the original "forms" are not truly lost as it's often more about the intention within the individual than a "lost technique" itself. There's nothing wrong with the word enlightenment. Some people experience such a profound change in the way they think and feel after an "enlightening experience" that it may be warranted, but anyone trying to sell "enlightenment" to people is one to be wary of as yes that is generally fraudulent.
This man see special person byt canot communicate with it It name was AIRL ...
I wonder when it was that J Krishnamurti thought he had healing powers. I don't think he was claiming that in the 70s and 80s.
A somewhat softer version of the fierce barking dog in his extreme old age. The end scene where he admits to enjoying palmistry etc., but didn't want people to know because they might think he believes in it, and then reads the guy's palm was sweet.
In one of his talks, J. Krishnamurti talks about doing that as a younger man, but that he didn’t do it anymore. For this to work, he claims the healer should not have a quiver of selfishness. Not give me your money, and I will give you health.
TRY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE EVEN IF YOUR ARE RIGHT, IS A WAY TO SHOW HEALING POWERS OR POWER OVER OTHERS
but, to make assumptions about it as illegitimate is like to say that if someone had an allergic reaction to a drug not known to cause them, to just say "nope, no you didn't have that allergic reaction..." It becomes a "because I say it cannot be, it cannot" sort of logical fallacy. The reality is, if it's not in your experience why believe it, but why hold beliefs against it either? That's all belief based honestly and not taking all explanations/perspectives into account.
Haha, I've considered it but, I haven't wanted to fully yet.
Oh I don't disagree with the fact that studies need to be improved and that more need to be done to form any kind of conclusion for those looking to make a decision on it's effectiveness based on evidence.
However, those studies do not then become negative. Positive changes were still detected. Maybe that can be attributed to other factors, but still.
I think the conclusion for now should be: "To be continued" haha.
U.g krishnamurti has valid points but the way he speaks at times sounds horrible and morever hes sounds too egoistic
And one more thing i never understood is why did he abuse Jiddu krishnamurti?
I'm not just critiquing "gurus." Meditating only stagnates the brain. It creates contradictions where there shouldn't be any. For example, (as you put it) "consistent" way of looking for solutions, yet saying you're against "dogma". I hope you see the error. Or looking for 'enlightened' states without defining that. One just chases their own tail. And the ones that claim to have found it can't explain it because they can't identify it. Its self deception.
he was essentially just a cranky curmudgeon
If "concepts create contradictions", then 'meditation' by necessity falls under that category. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I'm sure you see the problem. These aren't assumptions. As for "not being able to explain unless they experience it", lets take being attacked by a lion. I'm fairly sure you can understand that its dangerous, painful, scary, bloody, and so on. You don't have to experience it to understand it.
then they should probably look at the evidence and make a decision based on that...in other words, follow things with proven effectiveness..
Meditation has proven benefits..but, as you said so do many, many things..
However, if someone is literally wondering specifically about how far meditation can take someone in terms of what they experience, the best idea is always trying it, even while taking accounts and data into account..
There is a research technique we use called meta-analysis. So each paper can consider the results of multiple papers. There are many of these. I'll post the results in the video. I have the script just about finished. Just figuring a way to present it. The TM video will be totally separate. They are an absolute joke and will be treated as such. The other techniques will be dealt with an a more serious fashion.
Its a massive stretch to say "the research proves benefits." Even the poorest research doesntt use the word "prove." But before I get the video done, Ill be open to anything you can find. I've analyzed about 10- 20 papers so far. I've stopped looking at the TM studies since they are predominantly done by the Maharishi U. I've looked at Mathieu Ricard, Kabat Zinn, Alan Wallace (Shamatha project) to name a few. Many papers for cancer (some good stuff there). But all the bliss studies are shams.
Makes sense to me. Well, that is...if anyone ever actually took off.
I'm just saying, fully dismissing people's profound experiences because they can not completely explain or convey them directly is to pretend that our current explanations are all encompassing and complete when they are simply not.
Some experiences it's hard to convey. Then why accept them at face value? You're right, you can't (unless you have the experience yourself)..
but, dismissing it because people can't explain...just wouldn't seem to be genuinely looking into what's actually happening
For the love of god, can someone just tell me what he means when he says our answers are born out of the questions or something or might be the other way round? cheers.
Sxnz it has much deeper significance than he’s given credit. You can test it for yourself. When you ask a question (even on topics which is allegedly new for you), and receive an answer, it’s you who decide if that answer makes sense or not. If you probe further, an understanding will arise that the very purpose of asking a question is to hear the answer you want through someone else. Hence a question ( any question ) is just a modified version of an answer that you already know.
You didn't even get this simple thing right. He says the questions are born out of the answers you already have.
What that means? Probably that you have been led to believe there is some thing or some state that will lead to happiness or enlightenment or transformation (the answer) and you bought into it and are on an infinite treadmill chasing after and searching for that thing that you can not even describe (the questions).
That's why he also says that there is no problem...the question is the problem, and the question derives from the answers you were given
I hate to repeat myself. But if a person can not simply and adequately explain their experience, then its just a nebulous feeling. Which is not good enough. Using "subjectivity" as an excuse is also not good enough. Art, which is subjective can be described in ways understandable to others although they may have a different feel for it. Even consciousness, also subjective, has ways of being tested. No such luck with enlightenment, meditative states, etc. Thats because its an enticing fantasy.
That's exciting sounding! I'll definitely watch it. In terms of clinically proven effectiveness, I'll see what evidence you put forth then! Meditation is free as well (if you're not following some specific plan). Also, do you cover every form of meditation or just focus on TM (which not everyone who meditates, supports) or just go on any study on any type?
Oh I'm not saying that's to be expected, I'm saying it's happened to some people and that those people, were not simply lying.
Thats a funny thing. I only a bit about LSD and it medical usage in the 50's for treating psychotic issues. There have always been claims that it "expands the mind." And they always use Steve Jobs or other creative people as an example. The problem is there are way too few people to show a causal effect. If you look at the population that does not use psychotropics there are many more successful happy and creative people. People equate fame with success and thats what confuses some.
And you can learn to fly there too...WEEEEEEEEE!
Some are frauds, others have legitimate things to teach people about how their beliefs end up shaping their experience. The body does heal itself and the process in which it does has been explained physically speaking, but we also know that mental stress lowers the immune response and inhibits the healing process. If people's experiences are beyond your explanations, do you simply deny them? Your opinion of meditation is not a proven or verified one, but your opinion based on limited data.
Maybe all of the dogma or information accompanying the origins of profound self-realization is unprovable and unnecessary. I'm not even claiming that the experience existing proves anything. Simply that the experience of realizing yourself to not simply be your idea and/or concept of yourself (you identity) is real and has helped many people truly alleviate their own suffering. Whether it's nothing beyond the right chemicals being released in the brain is irrelevant and/or fine either way!
I clicked on this video in order to laugh tbh
"People equate fame with success and thats what confuses some." Fame gets people to give you their attention, and attention from others is the most powerful drug we know. It's the ultimate 'high' to have all eyes and ears on you, which is the real reason you're posting so many comments, right? Because it feels good to have people putting their attention on you, listening to you. Yes, TH-cam allows everyone to get some of that fame.
I am not stating that you are necessarily doing anything other than giving your take on the matter, but I would recognize if I were you (if you haven't already, I can't determine if you have or haven't) that your statements are not factual (or nonfactual) but, your personal experience and/or your own interpretations and opinion, not any form of absolute "truth" and something that isn't the case in the experience of many scientifically literate, sensible people.
I don't know Sir 😀😀😀
@qigong1001 -- well there r siddhis and powers ,, but krishnamurti disagrees to that ,, i think not because he thinks it is fraud ,, it is just that he does not want people to get into such things
I don't know Sir. 😀
I'm just saying you know, I don't think it's just some outdated practice or cult-style dogmatic lie, I know that people have had very strong experiences meditating and some fairly profound health benefits. It would be an error in reasoning for me to conclude that it would be such a reality for most just because extreme-positive examples exist. I understand that. I'm simply not dismissing those experiences as irrelevant, even if statistically they aren't prevailing. Is that fair?
And what was his opinion on the first sai baba?
He equally dismissed him